Are Ogre Bulls (All Variants) Any Good in Patch 5.0? - Ogre Kingdoms Unit Focus
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- Опубліковано 12 чер 2024
- Let's run with the bulls and see what these whelps can do for your horde! They're as fast as the other (foot) varieties of Ogres and they charge in and get very disruptive, and even walls will not resist their pummeling forever. They have downsides, but that's part of the relatively restrained cost!
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The Off to Battle unit focus format uses combat demonstrations from Skirmish vs. AI, background music and voice commentary, including:
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Total War Warhammer 3 Immortal Empires, Thrones of Decay DLC Patch 5.0! - Ігри
Ogres, my lord
Shrek is my ogrelord
Bro started the ogre series with the rework looming 😭
I did the same thing for Thrones of Decay, it's better this way, gives me two bites at the apple and an easy way to compare units that have changed. Though what's left for Thrones is "mostly" lords and heroes at this point.
itll be half a year before he has to change anything
A strange but weirdly effective tactic for ogres is to have a gnoblar front and meld in ogres. Gnoblars don't really get in the way and they help plug gaps in the ogres so they don't suffer too much from being surrounded, ogres main weakness is charging a blob of infantry alone. They can often get surrounded and killed off since they get attacked from all directions and lose most their MD. Plus gnoblars with a tyrant can be insane with the big name that gives unbreakable! You can easily get one of the strongest holding units ogres or really anyone can get. Especially early on
I think I replied to you separately about this just now but I'm absolutely going to try and master charging through friendly infantry with Ogres. I mean, they have the mass and the Gnoblars have little, so hopefully really good results... and I usually have plenty of Ogres to do some looping around 'on top' of that.
In my experience it strongly depends against what you are fighting. Against less armored units they are great for the beginning. But if you fight dwarfes etc. They dont do that much. In that case you need to refresh your charge often and attack them with everything you got.
They are okay for their purpose. Not too expensive, but also not cheap.
At some point you will replace them with over things, but for the beginning they are solid.
Keep up the good work! :)
Well said, great for their purpose, limited use against heavy armor. I wrapped a long campaign learning even more about the Greasus side of things last night (and didn't get as much sleep as I meant to... solving that once I send "Reply" here..) but basically, Greasus has a lot of reasons to rush Ghorst, that Ogre Bulls punch down on zombies and skeletons well is but one of them. Thanks!
As a whole, ogre bulls are interesting. Not exactly cheap, but not terribly expensive. They pack a hell of a punch, but are pretty squishy (unintentional fat joke). One thing Ogres REALLY benefit from cheesing is bringing allied troops. Gnoblars are alright at creating a wall of meat to shield the big boys...but what about orc boyz? Find a way to tolerate Grimgor enough to get an alliance, and suddenly 4 units of shielded orcs make a huge impact on ogre bull survivability - especially the dual weapon variant bringing so much heavy dps. OR, offer to declare war on all of Imrik's enemies in exchange for a trade agreement and defensive alliance to get some spearmen. With Skrag I ended up becoming huge friends with Belegar by wiping out Ikit Claw - a line of longbeards in front of some lead belchers with ironguts to push the line forward once things got dicey was great. Hopefully with the new DLC the new ogre lord will make alliances even easier to gather up. Embrace the mercenary aspect that makes an ogre an ogre!!
My now-aborted Turn 3 Greasus campaign and I found I could just pay Zhao 1150 gold for a trade agreement on Turn 1, money I planned to make back many times over. And yeah as for Grimgor, I bought him off in my first serious campaign. Zhao took him out in the background, though. Never got to an alliance. But I agree allied troops seem a really great way to cheese with Ogres.
That is quite based
If the rework ends up getting you some more anvil type infantry Ogres are probably going to see a far increased usage tbh.
Ogre Bull enjoyer here. I make a point in recruiting a Ogre Bull Mercenary. The key with them is to not engage them in flanks that you are loosing. Rather, engage a loosing unit and rout them quickly with your 40 charge bonus and fear. After that, let the Bulls chase down the routed enemy for a few seconds and then rear/side charge the next enemy. You won't suffed because of their low melle defense if you do that and the Ogres will refresh their charge bonus constantly. Under these circumstances they are incredibly underpriced for what they can do. Great unit even for lategame when you charge the front line, stay in a few secs, then just push into the backline and start eating archers.
Bulls can give much value, if you can cyclecharge them propperly. There is some tips:
1. Make sure charging ogres dont cross other friendly ogre entities. Ogres are heavy and bulky. Then they stumble to each other they lose their charge and waste stamina. Allso I recommend to spread out ogre regiments from each other to prevent stumbling
2. Use gnoblars to back up you ogres while retreat. Then regroup and charge again. Gnoblars are light and small, so ogres can squeese through them without losing charge speed.
3. You dont need to flank and rear atack to cyclecharge. Its OK to cyclecharge in front, until you gnoblars can hold a line in choke point.
Working around 1. is going to be my biggest issue for going from "decent" to "good" with Ogre Kingdoms. I think I'll try charging in with some ogres for a while, pulling them out and charging other ones in while Gnoblars maintain contact. And you can charge through Gnoblars? Interesting. I've been trying to study Greasus' interaction with Ogres vs. Gnoblars too. Despite his shocking ahem, mass, Greasus tends to slide away from a target if other ogres are hitting it, which isn't ideal if my plan is for Greasus to smack it.
@@OffToBattle You can charge through 1 regiment of Gnobs. Just dont blob them too mutch. Allso you can order gnoblars to retreat before ogres charge. Gnobs will spread out a bit, so ogres wil slice through even better. Allso infantry regiments can charge through each other. If you order engaged regiment to retreat from enemy TOWARDS charging friendly infantry regiment, they will spread out, so charging regiment will soak through friendly regiment without loss of speed. With this trick you can cyclecharge with infantry (bestigors, gors DW, Wurrzags savagebois) in chokepoints and deal shitloads of damage. Wery useful trick in many early campaigns, there you get nothing, but few good great weapons infantry
@@violetcat9254 Very interesting and I will absolutely be trying this now that I'm going back to campaign. (Was writing the biggest chunks of a Greasus unit focus script while Maneaters was uploading, it's out now.) I can loop ogres around the back, sure, but they always seemed to be tripping over each other, and it's not as if I lack for gnoblars, so knowing just how much friendly units stop charges - or not - matters a ton. How does it work with cavalry?
@@OffToBattle dont know how about cavalry. I use it in classic way for flank/rear charge. Allso good luck with your new content.
I'd say the main thing about ogre bulls is that they couldn't care less about your frontline, with very few exceptions they can push right through. This means as long as you're fighting a ranged focused faction, you can smash aside their frontline and beeline for the ranged, which causes them to armyloss quite quickly, at which point it really doesn't matter how squishy the bulls are.
I've been seeing that a lot with my Ironguts and Maneaters videos, so I'll just see what I can get away with with "just" Bulls too. Like in about 5 minutes, my Maneaters video just published so it's more campaign time :)
Bulls are an interesting unit- best used for flanking and rear attacks amd clearing out enemy chaff. I personally like the Shield Variant because of better armor and higher MD. Nice review- looking forward to the rest of the roster ans Luthor Harkon- for the change of pace
Oh that's riiiight I need to put together the Luthor one too... well, it'll be soon enough :)
Ogre kingdoms are big and squishy just like ogres themselves
So it would seem.
Da Ogres ar' comin' to Getcha'!
They seem good at pursuit.
Can you defeat an early game army with ogre bulls?
Given my experience from a previous Old World map patch, not with just ogre bulls. Using the crawly hungry guys with AP is pretty vital against an early game dwarf army.
As Greasus, it's more like, a few more turns and I probably would've done it, but then Ghorst and Ku'gath decided all my stuff should be their stuff. Eventually I owned a shiny new penninsula and found out Ogres get quite a bit of money from ports. Who knew?
@@OffToBattle With the proper camp set ups, tech and skills, ogres can go from being a sack faction to a money making empire faction. Its nuts and I love it.
@@OffToBattle One of the funniest bits of ogre lore is that if they think past their hunger long enough, they have a weirdly good business sense.
They just don't normally do much with their money besides turn around and buy food.
Wallbreaker should never have been added to base Ogre units. What, do they eat through the walls? Why can't any other big large beasties do the same? They already have an army ability that blows up walls anyway.
Well, given the confirmed next DLC, it's a very topical series!
Yeah I'm not convinced about Wallbreaker for Ogres like that... but oh well, I'm still new to the faction. I know that the Toad Dragon coming in with it is a huge addition for Nurgle.
@@OffToBattle I think there are plenty of big monsters who probably deserve it. Like, you'd think that Dread Saurians would have it, eh? At least Kholek has it. But as it is, the Dread Saurian can't knock down a wall... but a few Ogres can.
@Canuovea recently made a mod to let dwarf miners knock down walls, and it's pretty fun to just tunnel through enemy defences. You still have to send your forces through the choke point afterwards, so it's not super broken imo. Think I'll add a bunch of other units to wall breaker, big monsters and some monstrous inf/cav. I mean walls are already pretty worthless
Actually... Yeah they could. Ogres can in fact eat rocks. Ogres can even eat warp stone without issue.
@@Canuovea Dread Saurians, Khemri Warshpinxes and some other stuff got handed Collision Attacks for 5.1, so there will be Stonehorn-like fun with them. A lot of cases # of splash targets damaged was narrowed, which isn't even a bad thing in a lot of cases as long as it's not super low.
men the bulls fucking suck against anything that isnt bottom tier infantry, atleast on their own. fighting cathay in hell early game, and even worse late game if you cant afford the top tier units. the fact that you always need to only use crappy knoblars the entire game as an anvil and damage soak makes every fight a pain. overall, just the worse campaign in the game, atleast norsca has decent survivability
Mind, I thought this when I first started, but there are campaign mechanics that are just really counter-intuitive and that I needed to learn the hard way... but that's going to be its own separate video(s) down the road. Thanks for dropping in! Let me know what you think of other units in the roster too. Leadbelchers was yesterday, Maneaters will come after I catch up on sleep. Was up late smacking Grimgor and (to an extent) Tamurcan't, er, Tamurkhan. Stupid CA defeat trait joke... (btw it's +1 global recruitment slots +3 hero capacity, wow.)