They have no idea where they are. Airplane lost navigation after takeoff. New York Kennedy. Real ATC
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- THIS VIDEO IS A RECONSTRUCTION OF THE FOLLOWING SITUATION IN FLIGHT:
14-JAN-2023. An Endeavor Air Canadair Regional Jet CRJ-900 (CRJ9), registration N931XJ, performing flight EDV5459 / 9E5459 from New York John F. Kennedy International Airport, NY (USA) to Frederick Douglass/Greater Rochester International Airport, NY (USA) shortly after departure reported loss of navigation and requested time for troubleshooting. As the result the pilots reported loss of navigation ability and requested return back. The air traffic controller was vectoring them till 3-mile final.
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Timestamps:
00:00 Description of situation
00:17 Loss of navigation
01:30 Endeavor 5459 contacted New York Approach
02:12 Endeavor 5459 turned back towards the JFK
05:58 EDV5459 started approach
07:54 Endeavor 5459 requested vectors to the runway
08:57 The crew contacted Tower
09:58 Landing
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THE VALUE OF THIS VIDEO:
THE MAIN VALUE IS EDUCATION. This reconstruction will be useful for actual or future air traffic controllers and pilots, people who plan to connect life with aviation, who like aviation. With help of this video reconstruction you’ll learn how to use radiotelephony rules, Aviation English language and general English language (for people whose native language is not English) in situation in flight, which was shown. THE MAIN REASON I DO THIS IS TO HELP PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND EVERY EMERGENCY SITUATION, EVERY WORD AND EVERY MOVE OF AIRCRAFT.
SOURCES OF MATERIAL, LICENSES AND PERMISSIONS:
Source of communications - www.liveatc.net/ (I have a permission (Letter) for commercial use of radio communications from LiveATC.net).
Map, aerial pictures (License (ODbL) ©OpenStreetMap -www.openstreetmap.org/copyrig...) Permission for commercial use, royalty-free use.
Radar screen (In new versions of videos) - Made by author.
Text version of communication - Made by Author.
Video editing - Made by author.
HOW I DO VIDEOS:
1) I monitor media, airspace, looking for any non-standard, emergency and interesting situation.
2) I find communications of ATC unit for the period of time I need.
3) I take only phrases between air traffic controller and selected flight.
4) I find a flight path of selected aircraft.
5) I make an animation (early couple of videos don’t have animation) of flight path and aircraft, where the aircraft goes on his route.
6) When I edit video I put phrases of communications to specific points in video (in tandem with animation).
7) Together with my comments (voice and text) I edit and make a reconstruction of emergency, non-standard and interesting situation in flight.
aviate -navigate- communicate. So basically less work, riiiight?
😂😂😂😂😂
You Sir, win the internet for today 😜.
You just me snort my coffee in Starbucks. I doff my cap to you good sir!
This comment is _underated_ 👍🏿
The A team was on duty for sure. ATC probably does not get much practice directing no-gyros vectors, but the controller was masterful. As a retired avionics type, I would be super interested in knowing just what the hell went wrong with that airplane. It sounded a lot worse than just having the IRS locked in attitude mode.
id bet a lot of money on maintenance error lol
Masterful is the right word indeed. Spectacular job by the controller
I'd imagine the entire team at JFK / NY Center / etc in that region is the A team, 24/7. That airspace, and the one around the Capitol, are both so insanely sensitive to national security concerns, and JFK/LGA/EWR is even more congested. I would suspect only the best of the best make the cut to sit in those seats. Everything in that region is just turned up to 11/10.
Hope the FAA does a deep look at how the heck a commercial passenger jet looses redundant systems. That failure on an Atlantic crossing out of radar coverage or even in weather, could likely be catastrophic. The stupid thing is, a $500 adsb receiver with adhars connected to the pilots ipad would be a valid backup.
@@Searey07 Even google maps on their cellphone is going to be more accurate than no gyro vectors. How did they also lose their backup compass?
The first officer is clearly a young fellow and this was probably his first emergency. You can hear a bit of quiver in his voice at the beginning of the incident but by the time he was working with the controller to get set up for final you can hear him realizing that pilots can rely on their training and proficiency to deal with non-normal situations and make it home alive. Congrats, sir. Well done.
I thought the same thing.
Yeah, it was kind of noticeable how calm the captain sounded compared to how nervous the first officer sounded on the radio.
@@seanpellegrino2989 It comes with experience. That’s the whole reason there’s still two pilots up there. I remain confident in American pilots.
That’s what happens when you lower the minimums and go from the right seat instructing in a Skyhawk to the right seat of a jet…
@@Captndarty If it bothers you go practice CRM. These guys got through it, so can you.
Cleared to land on that Greek restaurant. You'll find your gyro once you touch down.
The audible relief/excitement in the voice of the FO when the runway was on sight. Wow. And immediately thanked the controllers.
I bet that controller was praying they’d get it in sight too so he could just clear them for the visual and hand them off to tower.
You can hear a little bit of nervousness in the (I am guessing) young FO's voice at first, but he handled things very well. By the end of the video his voice is very calm and stoic. Talk about some insane on the job training. Good work to all involved.
I was about to comment more or less the same thing. He is nervous, up until the point they get visual with the runway, I’d say.
We’ve done similar training in the simulator, and you do feel helpless, in IMC, with limited to none accurate navigational situation.
I have to add : I’d resort to my EFB (electronic flight bag, e.g. an iPad) with moving map, in that situation. The GPS position information PLUS a keen ATC would make it much less stressful. Don’t know if these guys had access to this, probably not, from the heading they went to (southerly) after being given a 220 degrees vector from ATC. Anyhow, pilots and ATC made it work, and that’s all that matters in the end.
@@vbertrand Also him saying 73 pax, 76 flight crew makes me think this might have been a checkride for the flight crew, so extra nerves aswell on that front. All around great job by the crew and ATC
@@tijmenberends242 I was wondering about the flight attendants... 3 crew with passengers is not enough.
The FAA stopped proficiency training on no-gyro surveillance approaches years ago. Glad to see that this controller still had it!! 👍
Why?
@@cptcrogge My guess:probably something budget related
Spectacular performance by him. I could imagine him sitting right up in his chair just fully focused on detailed precise and concise instructions. Just spectacular
Perhaps this is why there was a change of voice when this controller took over? The first one had a twang in his voice. The second one did not.
@@karend1577 They probably requested someone more proficient at it to take over for the aircraft in distress.
This sounded so tense
It was calm and very professional by ATC and the flight crew.
It sounded pretty tense to me.
The FO on the radio was brilliant. All were brilliant. Well done.
JFK should get a Guinness award for the most reported incidents lol
They had a bit last time.
1200 departures a day sometimes at JFK
Guinness....
I am retired senior air traffic controller n watching this video from Mombasa, Kenya,East Afrika. This was excellent job by both pilots n duty controller. .They deserve kudos 👏 .
.
Yeah highly professional
Wow! Relying on a call of 'stop turn' to get your heading... I would love to learn more about how the gyros failed.
Old airplanes had magnetic compasses which while needing to be re-calibrated regularly against geographic north would be helpful in a situation like this to at least get a relative heading for each turn.
Old? How old you talking? If you are referring to the Heading Indicator on a steam gauge aircraft, it is powered by a vacuum. If you lose the vacuum then you lose your heading indicator, but you are right that you can use the standard old fashioned magnetic compass that bounces around on the dashboard area. 3 degrees per second with a standard rate turn using the electrically driven turn coordinator will give you a 360 turn in 2 minutes. One of the biggest common errors when you lose a system (vacuum) is that you dont want to admit it....and that can lead to disaster and often does if you are flying in IMC. Also dont every become so dependent on your autopilot. There will come a day when you are going to have to maneuver and HAND fly an instrument approach in IMC. if I confirm that I have instrument systems failures, the autopilot gets immediately disengaged and I hand fly using partial panel skills. Often easier said than done tho. So thats why its important to stay fresh with hand flying (without autopilot), and practice partial panel exercises frequently too.
HI usually electric. Had to practice no gyro for instrument rating. Very easy.
Brilliant work by all, especially the approach controller coming back in
Yeah, what a pro. 😮👏🏻
You could hear the controller's pucker factor go up in his voice when he realized he was basically flying the plane.
I don't think he enjoyed that.
@@slartybarfastb3648 but he did an outstanding job with that. considering the delay he has to work with. mind blowing.
I've only flown C150s so I had never heard of a no-gyros approach. Really impressive. ATC and the pilots really did a professional job.
When training for the instrument rating, practice a few no-gyro approaches.
Only standard-rate and half-standard rate turns apply.
And atc tells you when where and how to turn until you are on the approach.
Army atc has to train emergency approaches for monthly currency. So No - gyros are easy....(not to say game like) but it does make it a fun challenge to count your turn seconds and get them bang on course haha.
turning rate of about 1 second/10 Degrees turn ... just guessing tho ...
@will gaukler "Standard rate" is what we fly in IMC conditions. It is 3deg/second. This is so a 180 degree turn takes 1 minute and atc can accurately get us on headings using time. We use the turn coordinator (a flight instrument that is not powered by the same system as the other gyro instruments) to accomplish a standard rate turn.
If you have any anomaly IMC declare an emergency and get all the help you can. Well done ATC, WELL DONE.
As an IFR student pilot my CFI hammered incessantly on no-gyro flying, relying on the compass to navigate. Still remember Accelerate North, Decelerate South.
ANDS & UNOS certified hood classics
Its funny (not really) that we can fly partial panel when our CFII covers up the vacuum instruments and tells you that you just lost your vacuum, BUT what if he didnt tell us? What if they just failed, and all the while you still think they are working??? The takeaway is that we all need to train on constantly verifying that the instruments AGREE with each other. If they stop agreeing with each other, then we need to be trained to recognize that and make our own conclusion that one of the systems (vacuum or pitot static) has failed. Once we verify, then we go into partial panel mode. Our CFII wont be there in real IMC to tell us that the system has failed....someday when it really happens.... Food for thought. Fly safe..!
Wow. That approach controller is a FUCKING PRO.
You're so dirty.
I want a Blancolirio report on this yesterday.
That young FO sounded scared to death; and that ATC was First Class!. Kudos to the captain for "keeping-it-together" .
This is encouraging. I was almost expecting a clown show, but everyone involved handled this very professionally and, all things considered, calmly and deliberately, with clear coms - particularly the ATC team. Amidst all the news noise suggesting incompetence in commercial aviation it's comforting to see something like this. It never developed into an actual threat to safety but it could easily have gone off the tracks. Kudos to the presumably young FO - particularly nice to see newbees acting diligently and relatively calmly under the circumstances. This experience has undoubtedly given that FO some valuable first-hand experience that will likely save lives in the future.
This was fascinating to watch. Not a pilot, but a frequent flyer who listens to ATC UA-cam content. Sounded flawless, well done by all involved!
No matter what plane I crewed I always carried and used a full-function hand-held GPS regardless. If the panel goes black or a discrepancy between instruments I can still navigate and safely fly with the little GPS. Cheap insurance and workload reducer. I also carry a personal PLB so a satellite can tell responders I need them and they know where I am. Modern tech can be a life saver for cheap.
Boom! This.
Portable nav and comm.
Although this may sound like a good idea it is likely probably a violation of SOP at a lot of large companies. Anything that isn’t FAA approved is generally a PED and forbidden. A handheld GPS would have likely gotten them in trouble here. Flying the standby attitude instrument off of ATC vectors is the correct thing to do.
@@NicolasEubanks yes, that can be the case in CONUS, but if youre over the atlantic at night, losing both FMS for eg. can lead to significant issues.
this might be the first time ever nyc atc wished someone would talk slightly slower on the radio... great handling by everyone, glad everything worked out!
This was outstanding work by everyone.. it gives me the chills..! Everyone stayed nice and calm...thank you for sharing this
Thank you for watching 🙂
All navigation? Thats very rare with gps receivers, and two inertial reference systems
Give those guys a beer!! Bloody brilliant!!
Outstanding work by pilots and ATC. You guys saved lives!
Nope
lol
I'm a private pilot. I've heard of the no-gyro approach but have never listened to one in action. Well executed.
Very good job saying "turn" then "stop turning". Basic but the best to do in this situation. 👍
Back in the day our local controllers appreciated the opportunity to practice these no gyro approaches so those of us flying for practice approaches would often put the discs on the instruments and ask for them. In this age of glass panels and gps these kinds of skills are becoming a lost art. My guess is there was a grey bearded veteran controller in the room who lent his skills to the task. Bravo to all involved in this for bringing the 73 souls home safe.
"We need to stop out here to change our shorts because well, yeah, you know....." That was the real deal. Great job by all.
I crashed in a sea plane taking off from Santa Catalina Island in 1979. The plane sank quickly but we all survived.
In 2003 a flight landing in Mallorca, Spain couldn't slow down for some reason so we landed at something like full speed.
That was interesting because you're used to how fast a plane should be going when you land. And we were going twice that speed. The applause after that plane finally stopped - and it took a while to stop - was uproarious.
I don't fly much anymore.
I am very impressed with all players in this event. During my IFR training in the late 70s I did several Precision no-gyro approaches into KCHS (with instructor on board). It is very reassuring to have no-gyro approaches available. While listening to this I felt myself tensing up a little. Congratulations to pilots and controllers alike.
That was amazing! You can hear the stress of the 1st officer when they where 4 miles out and had no visual of the run way. Everyone was straight up bad asses.
Whew 😊 Them ATC = cream of the crop. Kudos, Gents!
Just imagining the pilots trying to get a compass from one of the passengers or an Apple Watch.
great work, I felt a swell of pride for all those who helped.
No-gyro and no ILS wow! they really went dark! Well-executed no-gyro vectors by both parties!
the pilot doing the most talking did a great job..
In crew environments theres the PF and PNF, pilot flying and pilot not flying. The pilot not is the one on radios. At the end and 3:10 you can hear the older senior Capt jumping on the radio. He's the pilot/ hero.
Yeah, the PNF had a slight speech impediment, so the fact he was able to talk that fast and that clear must've taken LOADS of work on his part. Super impressed.
@@MasterCarguy44-pk2dq There are no "heroes", the Captain and First officer worked together to bring the aircraft down safely. Emergency situations aren't handled by one crew member, they're handled by all.
@@morerightrudder9742 the actual person "flying" this plane, let alone in imc near dark is "the hero" with the kool calm nerves. The approach controller would be the other hero. The PNF is just there for back up. Pls get 15,000 hrs in a 121/135 environment as a pilot and has had the unfortunate experience to live through three incidents then you can talk. CRM is only as good as the PF's experience.
Highly skilled all around
those final few no gyro turns on final at 1500 & previous IMC got me on the edge of my seat- YEEKS
Flying in IMC in a CRJ700 without Gyros! Wow. I’m impressed.
It's a 900 and only the heading and nav were out. PFD flight director was still 100%
@@buckmurdock2500 Didn’t seem like they had their flight director. The manual for the RJ says that the loss of the FMC would result if you lose gyros. They would have basic pitch and roll displayed. That being said, you might be correct as I am not a commercial pilot. Still wouldn’t want to be in that position in IMC with a low ceiling.
Top notch ATC.
A few comments:
-requesting any hold during navigational failures is a terrible idea and was probably more of a sim-trained reaction. Luckily departure knew what was up and gave them vectors
-commenting on the ground about “not having any fires or any emergency like that” is kind of just your minds reaction to downplaying the scenario when it was in fact definitely a serious emergency. But they’re on the ground at that point so they get a pass lol
-the pilot talking the most is most likely the FO / PNF. The deeper voice is most likely the CA / PF.
-I believe the only instrument remaining was the mini standby attitude indicator between EICAS 1 and 2… so really good job flying off of a small standby instrument in IMC
-you can definitely hear the approach controllers voice get 100% focused and precise when he transitions into no-gyro rather than just intercept vectors
-Some people are commenting on the (supposed) FOs shaky voice .. Not sure if y’all realize a shaky voice can be a number of natural reactions that can happen for lots of reasons other than “being nervous”. His speech was clear and concise the entire time so I wouldn’t say he reacted nervous (although everyone was probably nervous). Some people just have shaky voices ..
-This is one of those scenarios nobody trains for anymore because it just “isn’t realistically likely to happen”… fantastic work on everyone’s behalf.
I think he meant that they didn’t require any ground assistance (medical or fire)
They told them when they landed they didn't need any services because ATC told them earlier that the Port Authority had fire and medical on standby in these situations so they were letting them no they could stand down and it was all good. No fires or emergencies.
Best comment yet. A hold would have been a terrible idea, pretty sure the Captain would have vetoed that before long. Remove as much workload from the pilots as possible, they will be very busy, they don't need you yapping in their ear. They will let you know what they need. The 1st 2 controllers spoke way too much, this is common in the U.S. where controllers tend to speak very quickly, as if they are on the phone, then they wonder why they have so much trouble with foreign pilots trying to understand them. Don't get me wrong, they are good at what they do, but for some reason they don't recognize this... The flight crew knows you are going to ask for fuel remaining and souls on board, no need for a monologue. Ask if they can actually fly headings or will require no-gyro vectors. Assign a heading/turn and altitude. Ask if they will require vertical guidance on final, if so, determine final approach speed and recommend a vertical rate of descent that will begin at your direction, enabling them to be level at the missed approach altitude (DH/MDA) no later than 1nm final (simple math). This is an emergency surveillance approach. Vector them to be on at least a 12nm final. Final descent usually starts about 8nm final, then you talk them in every mile, advising if they are left or right of course, along with no-gyro turns as required. You also advise what their current altitude should be each mile (close is good enough). Before this 8nm final starts, you instruct them on ad-hoc missed approach instructions, and you instruct them that it is not necessary to acknowledge controller instructions on final, they just listen and follow your guidance on final (you can yap all you want at this point 🙂 ) A few more steps, but that's most of it. The flight crew were excellent here, the Captain as cool as ice, and the f/o didn't miss a thing considering his mind must have been racing! Very well done.
I've never actually heard a no gyro approach given. That whole thing was a pain in the butt! I've never flown the CRJ, so I'm curious what all went wrong. It sounds like they were down to backup instruments only, which would likely mean a failure of multiple systems. Not even getting the ILS makes it even weirder. Either way, top notch work by everyone.
Yes sounds like some major electrical failure of some sorts
My guess is all three platforms were shutdown and restarted in flight. It’s happened before.
there is nothing to indicate the ISIS was not working
@@Snaproll47518 If one takes off in ATT mode then switches to NAV mode it can take up to 10 min for the system to align, in the interim there would be HDG and NAV flags.
In the AHRS aircraft such a switch is required when departing runway with known magnetic anomaly. Interesting how there was nothing wrong on T.O. and about the point the switch would be made they reported loss of nav and hdg.
@@buckmurdock2500 I was never around AHRS but had a lot of experience with Honeywell IRU and ADIRU platforms. It's not possible to align inertial platforms with the aircraft in motion. Selection of ATT is an abnormal procedure after loss of NAV function. Losing all three platforms, supplied by independent power supplies, at the same time is improbable. Finger trouble is more probable.
Amazing job by the pilots and awesome job ATC! It pays to have really good people on the ground!
The pilots are at fault. They almost killed everyone
Wow! Nice work crew and ATC! I was in the cockpit sweating with you. I could hear the stress, and then relief in the pilots’ voices.
The FO sounded very nervous scared.
Handled it very well considering.
That was so cool to hear. Thank you.
That's how it's done. The ATC was so calm and proficient , it sounds like he could have been playing a game of bridge and sipping tea while talking them through their turns.
For some reason this year 2023 New York has been having some horrifying news coming from the airport, I’m glad no crashes have been reported 😖.
Great job to all!
Great job to all! Very professionally done!
Awesome job done by all.
Good solid work by ATC and the aircrew. Love to hear it.
Very impressive. Well Done!
Great work
I rarely comment on these, but great job all around on this one, especially that approach final controller.
Kudos to Cockpit crew and ATC, good Job. ⭐️
Amazing work by all involved. ATC does an outstanding job.
WOW!!!! What an absolutely amazing job done all around.
Good job by everyone involved. You could hear the nervousness of the pilot at times, and such a relief when he finally had the field in sight.
What a teamwork. Kudos to the ATC
Great job all the way around ❤
Wow. That was the most interesting and tense ones for a while.
Some quality ATC in the US (g'day from Australia!)
Outstanding.
That flight path looks like the good old days of IFR (I fly Railroad).
Great work by all involved.. competent controllers and two well trained guys up front with a good outcome.
Great video.
Situation well handled by both crew and ATC. Nicely done.
Wow, nice work gentlemen. Way to bring everyone home safely.
Great job by ATC and crew
Phenomenal!! Endeavor 5459/ATC💯
Loved the professionalism.
Great job by all 😊🙏🏻
Great work all concerned. I guess this is one example of aviate, communicate, navigate..😊
A little scary especially in IMC. Terrific job by ATC and the flight crew.
Nice job everyone!
Always thought there was a mechanical compass in the cockpit. Either way, this pilot probably dug out his boyscout compass and put it in his flight case for next time 😂
there is a vertical card compass on the center w/s post.
ATC deserves the "Canadian For A Day" achievement in compassion and effective communication in assisting these pilots. 🍁 🦫
This is an excellent case study for the NATCA booth at AirVenture this year. Happened in Jan. Great work all round!
Everyone did a great job 👏👏👏👏👏👏
Great video as always. I find a bit funny (though I know it is no fun to anyone in that airplane) that same situation happened to another Delta (Endeavor ) at LGA a few month back. Both were well-handled by ATC and crew.
Omg I could hear his voice shaking, but that’s not to say the Captain wasn’t a little unnerved as well. He just has more experience hiding those emotions…wow they did a great job!
New York ATC they are always the best!
This channel is awesome lol just found it like last week and have watched hours and hours worth of vids. Love the detailed descriptions at the beginning, keep em comin!
Thank you 🙂😎👍
at least in RSAF, we practice NCNG procedures... glad to know, these kind of stuff can happens when murphy is on board.
great teamwork all round, props to the clealy young FO who kept calm and in control and to the captain for an outstanding performance pobably just using the little backup atificial horison through clouds like a boss, my hats off to everyone fantastic work!
WONDERFUL COMMUNICATION
Excellent Job but fortunate the aircraft activity was light at that time.
Very nice non gyro approach by the contoller and crew of that aircraft.
Wow. Scary. But well done all!
I have only a casual interest in aviation YT video, but the ATC in this episode would have to be the clearest I have yet heard. Likewise the crew in response.
this is probably the first time I heard of actual no-gyro vectors instructions. This makes things more clear... now I wonder how those Radar Approaches works...
There's a great old black and white movie set around the Berlin Airlift. The radar approach controllers had to talk the C-54s down the glideslope and center line beam using a 2D oscilloscope.
It isn't exactly relevant to this event but, even being out of date, really shows clearly the principles of a radar vectored approach. Back then, all the way to the threshold. The fog could be so bad even taxiing required a "Follow Me" vehicle to guide them on the ground.
I wish I could remember the name of that movie.
WoW this was spot on.
now... what did I originally come to youtube for...
Scary situation lol ngl. Good job all around
Wow, textbook instruments failure handled perfectly.
good shit, to all parties 👏
If I lost my gyro I'd be pretty sad. There is this really good joint down the street that has authentic gyros, as soon as you walk in the guy with the big gold chain necklace greets you in a heavy Greek accent and hooks you up with a big fat juicy gyro.
Well that was scary! Trying to find an airport in IMC and no instruments!