I like to think that we enjoy stories so much because they make things more interesting. By using conflict alone, you can tell a thousand stories by weaving in your own ideas. The conflict and ideas we receive from the story has us coming back for more, like any other type of euphoria. The same can be applied to other art forms, such as music. Eventually we try to change stories to make them enjoyable again, even altering the original message and moral of the story. But the fact remains that we keep coming back. Positive Feedback Loops can be the best or worst thing to happen to an individual.
Yeah, i really like this interpretation, but i like more the reason we see in IDW, sonic truly believe that eggman one day can be good, and almost succeed with Mr.Tinker, sadly it didn't last but it proves that there's a chance
@@ShmokeJoestar Honestly your video gave me the desire to want a villain that actually wants to destroy both Sonic AND Eggman because of all the suffering that happens because of their constant conflict. Preferably a background character who has just had ENOUGH.
To best put it Sonic isn’t the type to kill. Not just because he is against the thought of hurting people but because death is an ultimatum, a finality. He represents ultimate freedom and once someone is dead… they are cemented in that final state of being. They run out of choices. He is inherently a selfish protagonist BECAUSE he gives his freedom to everyone, holding by his morals no matter what Meanwhile Eggman? Eggman is ego incarnate. He HAS to prove he is superior to Sonic, that he can outmatch the icon of nature with the creations of man. Everything he does is to prove he is simply better. Why level a city with a nuclear bomb when you can do it with a water god? Anyone can use nukes, but only he could pull off his schemes. He won’t ever use a cheap tactic to win unless he can rationalize it as him truly outsmarting Sonic in a way only HE could. It is why his greatest creation isn’t something built to counter Sonic’s weaknesses, but match his strengths, to prove he can make a BETTER Sonic. Sonic is a goalpost he wont stop until he feels he has truly surpassed it, meanwhile Sonic will never kill Eggman because that goes against his views on freedom. It is a set of ideals which, together, just make an endless cycle
And this is why Infinite, Surge, Kit, and Starline would want the two in the dirt. Their conflict has gone on for decades. Killed those who were caught in the crossfire, and ruined lives like Surge’s in the process. How many more Shadows, Surges, or Infinities will there be until they both end up sharing tombstones? This only justifies the duo’s hate of him and Eggman. But, if the two were taken out, they’d only be jeopardizing the world to be conquered/destroyed by a worse threat. And wouldn’t realize the mistake until they’re both on death’s door.
@@garrettviewegh9028i've seen someone point this out, but while taking out Eggman might seem like a net positive through and through, there have been times where the two had to work together to save the world, most recently, the END in Sonic frontiers could only be defeated with the help of Eggman, and while he was the one kind of responsible for the whole thing, it was only a matter of time before some other scientist in the future went and did the same thing. And that's not even counting people like Shadow and even Surge herself, their villany came through circumstance and, in Shadow's case they turned out quite heroic in the end. In short, Sonic's idealism might seem naive sometimes, but it's still a very valid point, and that's shown in characters like Shadow
I just want to comment about this panel in the comics on how Eggman admits he could carpet bomb Sonic if he chooses, but he cannot find the joy in that. He needs to see Sonic suffer and shatter before he kills him.
@@TheEggHunter Well according to Rouge he had that cardio regime... I wonder what else did the doctor do. Maybe BOOM Eggman has that physique because he is more constant than Games Eggman.
Man, this completely re-contextualizes the both of them - Eggman isn't some bumbling genius who is too egotistical to just gun down Sonic the moment he captures him instead of monologuing, he is THRILLED by the challenge the Hedgehog presents... Sonic, despite being a hero on the outside, is suggested to also have a greedy reason for fighting Egg-man - the adrenaline rush of being pushed to his limits
Yeah, this has been pretty much acknowledged since Sonic Heroes. In the instruction book that came with the game it states that Eggman sees Sonic more as a rival than a threat. At this point it is probably just something to kill time.
@@korhol2065 Not to mention all of those encounters were thanks to Eggman in some way Metal Sonic was invented by the mad genius, Zavok only met Sonic thanks to Eggman, same with Shadow, and Infinite gained his power thanks to Eggman, too.
I've always loved the interpretation of Sonic's character, that even though he is a fundamentally good person, he's also a reckless thrill-seeker. He'll often choose to make things more challenging or difficult for himself if it means he can have just a bit more fun with it, even if doing so raises the stakes and puts more lives in danger. Sonic is all about living HIS life to the fullest, and he'll do just about anything to achieve that.
These two are basically Batman and Joker "You won't kill me out of some misplaced sense of self-righteousness. And I won't kill you because you're just too much fun. I think you and I are destined to do this forever."
@Nsfwstar Not really. Batman doesn't kill for the same reason Sonic doesn't kill, he believes people deserve the chance to be better. That and he's an extra-judicial vigilante who shouldn't be deciding who lives and dies.
@@selinawalsh9075 batman is so delusional that joker after destroying and killing metropolis , superman wife and son , batman is annoyed because superman dares to kill joker So yeah he's delusional about his true reality lol
@@Nsfwstar Injustice is not a very well written story, I wouldn't use that as some takedown of Batman. Even so, the story ends up vindicating Batman because Superman goes full despot after this.
And then both Sonic and Eggman team up and proceeds to beat the sht out of Starline and Surge because they fail to understand why the 2 of them are like that in the 1st place 👀
They both hold back and they both know it. Even in the old show its seen very clearly when Sonic goes dark. He was faster, stronger, and ready to kill. Eggman simply walks in and stops him, the game was over and he knew how powerful sonic could really be. And he was ready for it. They both need something to win against, so they'll never stop.
Unlike Batman and Joker who clash to see who will break or rather who ends up killing the other; Sonic and Eggman are similar but in a way that's more like respect and yet to also fill the other's boredom. It's much nicer because their endless fight isn't as bad as the first two.
@@dragonknight1560 *respectfully summons god of destruction* *Respectfully sucks super chaos without consent, shoots into space and summons even bigger god of destruction*
@@Cyanfox3006 And yet respectfully Sonic beat all of those Gods and Eggman is like "Well, back to the board" Heck he even conquered 99,9% the world once and Sonic still won.
@@dragonknight1560 Yeah, the favourite part of all that for me, Eggman doing this not even to only satisfy his own ego, to destroy/conquer the world, but to also play with sonic, sonic as a toy of course
@@Cyanfox3006 Yep so very true and Sonic enjoys the challenge and the sense of adventure when he fights Eggman. It would be boring if he's not around even though other villains do exist out there.
Canon tbh Eggman has openly admitted he's always been able to kill sonic and chooses not to. Not out of boredom though, out of ego. He wants to defeat sonic and have him be alive to witness his success, not simply kill him. Plus he DOES love fighting him. Bro got that megamind mindset
Megamind vs Metroman except both of them have Megamind's mentality towards their rivalry and revel in it instead of have existential crises about their purposes in life. After all, they're living their purpose so might as well make it as fun as possible.
@@joshuakim5240 Metroman would love to have that mindset but Megamind was never a competition to him. Like Bro is so fast even the light beam that's so instant got slow that it's like a month in his POV hence he got tired of the constant unchallenging competition and quit Sonic and Eggman on the other hand are actual competition to each other. Both of them can put a dent into each other Ego and they are always FIRED UP to make the other eat their word.
Eh, he said: "I could carpet bomb him anytime I wanted" , but the thing is: he DID try that in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but Sonic managed to outrun the bombs. Things is, Eggman talks a lot, but rarely backs it up, having tried to straight up murder Sonic multiple times. Point is, always take what the doctor says with a grain of salt, he's a pretty biased guy due to his ego.
I geniuenly adore this kind of dynamic between hero and villan, where they both still stop eachother, yet are still willing to repsect one another in the process and also i love this kind of "if one of us dies the game is over, now the question is WHO DIES FIRST." Situation Its so cool to see :3
Surge as she sets fire to the chessboard: “BOTH OF YOU LOSE! GAME OVER”!! *electrocutes Eggman* “Anyone want a scrambled egg”?! Sonic: “I am going to end yo-“! Infinite: “You were saying?! We, exist because of your pointless, ENDLESS conflict. So, for our sakes and the rest of the world, you both go in the dirt! *puts Sonic in an illusion in which he drones but is instead Kit drowning him while Surge electrifies the water to give Sonic a heart attack* The three of them: “See you never”. *goes they’re separate ways as the world later adds the two to the obituaries*
@@chaminador Idk, I feel, given the right circumstances: metal is out, no one like Sonic or Tails is there to save him, the duo could kill him. But, we really haven’t seen the two fight one of Eggy’s mechs or other super weapons. Also, there’s the fact Surge only almost killed Sonic and Eggman, because she’d been powered up with one of the doctor’s devices. Which, almost killed her as well.
Unleashed Eggman and Werehog Sonic were fucking crazy dude. Guy wanted to kill the rodent and Sonic straight up THREW this main into the VOID without mercy
I like to imagine that eggman could throw hands with sonic as we have already seen with Surge and Starline (Possibley due to genetic mutation or bio-mechanic alteration) but hed rther fight in a robot to make things more intresting, as a wise man once said (Me), "To be deafeated is not to lose, it is to learn how to win"
After all, he's a genius that reached where he is through study and hard work. Even if he became capable of fighting fist to fist with Sonic and win through side effects and other things of all the machines and mystical artifacts he has interacted with across his life... That wouldn't really be the victory of his years and years of effort, but rather, the result of causality leading to his victory. As a genius, his ultimate victory has to be in a 1v1, using the science, the art, he has polished throughout his entire life. With a machine capable of surpassing even Sonic in a direct confrontation, rather than just carpet-bombing the entire country with nukes so Sonic won't even have where to run. THAT, is the True Victory of Doctor Eggman.
The embodiment of freedom vs the embodiment of ego, locked in a conflict of unimaginable power, I don't think they'll ever stop fighting so long as what they represent stays alive.
Funny enough that reminded me of those 60s dark fantasy novels Eternal Champions and Elric of Melnibone by Michael Moorcock, the conflict between Chaos and Laws for the domination of the multiverse but if too much Chaos the multiverse will become entropy and formless, but too much Law the multiverse will froze and stuck in time forever and that is why the Balance exist to balance both cosmic power with it Eternal Champions and maintained that Status Quo for all eternity.
Sonic is just a guy that loves adventure and Eggman's ultimate goal is building a theme park, something that is liked for the constant thrill it provides. Sonic and Eggman will put every excuse under the book has to why they do the things the do, sonic will say it's freedom and Eggman will say he wants the conditions to be just right, but the truth is they just both like fighting each other. They are in a theme park of fun that neither will get off from because they are hedonistic in their desires, both willing to stop anyone who tries to put an end to their game. That is the REAL explanation to why sonic and eggman are fighting.
If there was one thing Starline and Surge were right about, it was that Sonic and Eggman are trapped in a cycle. Eggman's pride will never allow him to change. He'll never stop until the entire world is under his complete control. Sonic's code will never allow him to truly punish Eggman. He'll always let Eggman go when he has the chance to put a stop to his evil once and for all. And the world lets it happen. The world does not call for Eggman's head, even after the Metal Virus. Sonic is not held responsible for his inactions, not even by his friends. The world is complacent and content, for as long as they have Sonic the Hedgehog to protect them, they don't need to worry about Eggman. They don't have to learn to protect themselves.
@@kingcamelot1395 that is a hell of a breakdown brother, if you ever come back to doing videos I think you'd make absolutely banger breakdown and character analysis videos! Thanks for watching and supporting 🫡✨
this is also possibly an effect caused by Chaos(not the villain, but the power itself). i read a while back that the emeralds act act as their own balance. when too much "good" exists, they entice "evil" to hunt them down and use their power. if too much "evil" exists, they cause " good" to rise up and quell it. Chaos is neutral, so it constantly keeps both sides against each other, warping space/time to allow events such as sonic vs eggman to keep happening. my theory is that both have harnessed its power too much and have become linked to it, hence why neither stay dead or down for long.
@@Goddess_IshtarI would say that sounds ridiculous. But In essence the most ridiculous and chaotic answers seem more logical when it comes to chaos emeralds,I wouldn’t be surprised if somehow sonic and eggman ended up someway making emeralds just make the cycle. Like just their existence causes emeralds to be
A war between not only their mindsets but their entire existences. A creature with infinite power (embodiment of chaos and freedom) vs a man of infinite knowledge (embodiment of order and ego) nither of them unwilling to truly overthrow each other else they are also destroyed in the process
"You and I are the same in the way that we have borrowed styles that we won't change Yours is filled with evil and mine's not, there is no way I can lose"
Funny thing is, this is sorta canon in the Archie Comics universe. There Sonic is so unbelievably powerful that he can go as far as bend reality to his will and even one of the most powerful entities recognizes that the only way he can “defeat” Sonic is to just wait him out with his immortality (and even that might not work). If he truly wanted to stop Eggman, he could have done it years ago in a million different ways.
I'm getting a lot of Raiden vs. Senator Armstrong vibes here. "Standing here, I realise, That you're just like me trying to make history, But who's to judge, the right from wrong? When our guards are down I think we'll both agree, That violence breeds violence, But in the end it has to be this way!"
I mean, this would explain why Eggman hasn't tried killing Sonic since Adventure 2. He actively did and almost successfully killed Sonic, and in those "final" moments, Eggman sounded sad. I suppose on some level, if Sega was willing to go down this route and let real writers cook instead of letting Eggman look like a joke, I could see this playing out. Sonic is based on Goku and both characters are incredibly poisonous to their own story and series. They could stop conflicts long before they grow with their powers, but also seek thrills and excitement because it is their nature. Its less about success and more about pride.
One could also see it as Eggman realizing he'll fall stagnant once Sonic is dead. As much as it may feel like he's trapped in a cycle where he cannot escape from... ...What has, in the entire human history, been a more effective motivation to push technilogical advance than war? A worthy opponent, the kind he'll never find again, will continue pushing Eggman to innovate, to find new creative solutions to problems, to push the rational limit of science just a little bit more. Once Sonic is out of the picture, and there is nobody else that can actually become a meaningful obstacle to this plans... ...What would push him to continue dragging science beyond its limits? As Evil as he may be, as Ambitious he may be, he's still, in the end, a Scientist and Inventor. And there would be nothing sadder for one, than losing their reason to improve his designs.
Sonic is not based on Goku. His personality is in part based on Bill Clinton's "get it done" attitude. But absolutely nothing about Goku's personality inspired Sonic. That is just an unfounded rumor.
Necessity is the mother of all invention. Without a problem to solve how would they improve? With Sonic who could challenge him? With Egg man without Sonic what is the point of inventing or making better robots when there is nothing to use them on? With every failure he improves figuring out what works and what doesn't work.
@@shrubman3422 Sonic has no shortage of rivals, and in the last few games he's been getting more powerful on his own. Eggman doesn't need a rival to improve his machines either. He could just...make better machines. You don't need external motivation to improve.
I mean, the answer has been staring us in the face since Sonic 2. Chaos. Sonic, and Robotnik are the living embodiments of Chaos. The light, and the dark. Both need each other to survive, and one day will destroy each other. And yes, I am aware that there is an entire character who's entire deal is being the pure essence of Chaos. But Chaos is EVERYWHERE.
Funny enough that reminded me of those 60s dark fantasy novels Eternal Champions and Elric of Melnibone by Michael Moorcock, the conflict between Chaos and Laws for the domination of the multiverse but if too much Chaos the multiverse will become entropy and formless, but too much Law the multiverse will froze and stuck in time forever and that is why the Balance exist to balance both cosmic power with it Eternal Champions and maintained that Status Quo for all eternity. And yes his works inspired Warhammer 40k, fantasy and many white hair brooding edgelord dark fantasy to come.
It’s like Eggman always said he can’t just defeat Sonic just like that he has to outwit Sonic in every way he can to prove his superiority,only then will he finish him off. But on the other hand he knows if he does kill Sonic that world domination would be boring and too easy because he would have nobody who could challenge him like Sonic can.
@@EmptyMan000well, if everything in the world were to be abide to egg man’s command whatever he like to see of the world would definitely be gone He didn’t save the world cause people need the savior, he save the world cause he still want to have a nice green hill to run XD
The idea that they keep one another around simply because they can reliably rival each other every Step of the way, knowing that one another makes their goals worth it and feel esrned
eggman is absolutely right he could have crushed sonic along time ago, he just needed to drop his "i want to win using only my brains rather then my brawn" idology. same with sonic he could have easily killed eggman even in the first game, but thats no fun he doesn't want to kill someone who could be the greatest hero even surpassing him. they absolutely feed off of each other's defeats and victories.
It’s so off from what the characters really are, yet so compelling I’d love to see this dynamic explored in characters who are genuinely motivated by this ideal
Usually would’ve villain makes us kind of proclamation. The hero was appalled. But the fact that sonic kind of agrees with it, Makes the whole thing even darker.
I love the idea that Eggman if he wanted to could genuinely throw hands with the best of them. The only reason he chooses not to is because he believes so hard in his own brilliance.
The fact that Eggman was able to punch him here means that he was able to move fast enough to where Sonic couldn't react in time. Meaning he wasn't lying about being able to put an end to Sonic's life whenever he wants, but that would just take all the fun out of it...
Fantastic comic. :) I love the mindset that they both show here. Chasing a goal just for the sake of having a goal to chase. I can totally relate to that. A sort of "It's more about the journey than the destination" mentality.
"If the egotist is weak, his egotism is worthless. ..." For me, Dr Robotnik is the perfect definition of a egoistic man but with the will, intellect and strength to prove with.
This goes insanely hard and feels so true like they could have ended each other in so many situations but they didn’t cause Eggman is the only reason why people try to stand against sonic and sonics the reason why nothing bad ever last
Sonic and Eggman remind me of Batman and the joker, one cannot be without the other to kick they’re but and or have they’re but kicked. The only difference is that instead of cold, determined calculation vs the chaotic symbol of death and destruction , it’s bold, stubborn calculation vs the chaotic symbol of life and freedom. It’s actually very interesting :D
What's crazy is that in the comics he outright admits he could've always just carpet bombed him and the freedom fighters but he doesn't want a quick win he wants to earn it😅
This is why I love villains and heroes who have a twisted personal sense of obsession. Just like how Joker needs Batman, Sephiroth needs Cloud, Death needs Puss In Boots, Luthor needs Superman and Eggman here in this comic needs Sonic. Joker needs Batman to contrast with his chaotic insanity. Batman serves as order and stability against losing oneself. Batman is someobe who will not let life ruin him unlike Joker who embraces life as a cruel joke. Because just like what Joker says without Batman there is no Joker and there is no joke without the punchline. Sephiroth needs Cloud as a sign of rememberance. He doesn't care for Cloud as a person but rather a nobody because unlike Cloud he was the former famous hero. He was the messiah and chosen one but Cloud was supported and cling onto support mentally and chosed himself while Sephiroth succumb to delusions. Death is an invisible force watching Puss until Puss ruins his lives so he wishes to destroy it out of pure joy. He is annoyed and disgusted the "greatest hero" wastes and doesn't appreciate what he had. Puss was too clumsy and as a result never understood the meaning of life. So he wishes to teach Puss a lesson in the most cruel way as possible. Luthor despises Superman because he believes Superman is a facade. He believes Superman shouldn't be a representation of humanity's savior. For he believes he is the savior but despite being human, he is a prideful and selfish man. Whereas Superman is hunanity at its best with true altruism and hope for the better. To help people and not let despair ruin him. And here is how I feel about Sonic and Eggman. They enjoy battling each other because it's fun. Sonic represents freedom but his methods of doing so are very complicated. Meanwhile Eggman is the representation of the horrors of egotism and machinery. He doesn't care for others besides himself and his creations. For Sonic it is fun and for Eggman it is. That is the reaosn why they fit as perfect rivals against each other. Which is why their dynamic of fighting each other will never end. Both od them do not want to end because where's the fun when the fun is over?
You know... This and the speech Eggman had about hiw he could carpet bomb sonic any time he wants, but instead insisting in "properly" defeat Sonic makes me wish there was a fan comic where it's sonic to snap at somebody about how Eggman is *His* to defeat, and nobody else
Eggman has stated before that he's been capable of killing Sonic forever, but that isn't the point; just _killing_ him any old way isn't good enough, it's about proving that he's superior.
Eggman is such an interesting character in that regard. He's absolutely capable of just killing the opposition and ruling the world but... that would be boring. Conquest is much more fun. And you know what else is fun? Theme parks, so he builds those too
Crazy thing is, while Shadow would be against Sonic’s murder, he wouldn’t be exactly angry about Surge and Kit killing Eggman too. Likely, he’d put them down if needed. Or offer a chance at redemption. That, or he’d put them in holes alongside Sonic and Eggman. He’d probably sigh and grieve. Only comforted by the hope that the world could finally have the time to really recover without the constant conflict of their rivalry.
How Sonic and Eggman will keep fighting until one gets tired of the other, But unlike cat and mouse, that will never happen because; 1. Someone has to save the land from the big villain. And 2. Where's the fun in that?
This was actually pointed out in both Archie and the recent tie-in comics. But more than that, the two are forces that keep changing the world and its people for better and worse all at once. Why else would they be the most frequent users of the chaos emeralds? They’re both chaos incarnate even if they don’t realise it. Fun creates their relationships with everyone around them. Common enemies strengthen them. The outcome of every game immortalises all of it. The two of them are a pair of gods among mortals. And we’re all here for it!
the crazy thing is, eggmans not wrong. sonic and him have done this song and dance for years, meddled with aliens and gods in this tango they do, and while it seems they hate each other at times, there is no doubt the two like each other's company, sonic always smiling when eggman got some new crazy scheme and eggman read to show off why he is better! a endless tango one could say
I really want a Tails comic like this, it always bothered me that Eggman builds crazy devices and robots that do all sorts but when it comes to Tails he rarely seems to (to my knowledge, all I know about what he's built is his plane and in games a couple of support robots). It has me wondering if he's afraid that building amazing things will lead to people viewing him like Eggman or if he's afraid it'll put him on a path to becoming like him.
Nope, Tails is as smart as Eggman, but it doesn’t make sense for him to build things like Eggman because he isn’t evil. Plus, Eggman is literally rich.
@Fox-Enthusiast05 I get that Eggman has a lot of resources but I don't get why building stuff Is inherently evil, fight fire with fire, fight genius contraptions with genius contraptions, plus wouldn't Tails be able to get resources by asking Sally, she's a princess and I assume she has quite a few resources available to her.
Hard disagree. Archie Eggman wanted Sonic dead so badly that he suffered a nervous breakdown after a particularly bad loss. He straight up shouted that he hated Sonic.
@@a-buttonace I’m talking about after that. He killed Sally before the first genesis wave undid it, attempted to robotize everybody and everybody that was already robotized would just be destroyed, and used Metal Sally. We don’t really know what Ian had planned aside from the fact that he wanted Eggman to be much more menacing.
@@platinumstar3 That doesn't change my answer. If anything, the Genesis wave and everything Eggman did after were direct results of his defeat against Sonic in StH #200. He tried to recreate the world, and when that failed he doubled down on his world conquering efforts by expanding his empire. Eggman has never been motivated by boredom, and he especially doesn't find Sonic entertaining. He might respect his abilities, but he does not like him and would much rather him not be around. Almost every piece of official Sonic media has made that abundantly clear.
@@a-buttonaceYou forget that the Robotnik in Archie Sonic is Robo-Robotnik in the second half of the series. He literally states the reason he came to the Prime universe is because he conquered his world already, killed Sonic and the freedom fighters, and because there was no Robotnik in the prime universe anymore he came to fill the role because he was bored.
This is pretty interesting. They kind of have a Batman-Joker, egomaniacal, trauma-bond-like relationship when you think about it. They're the only thing keeping each other from going insane to the point of destroying anyone or anything they care about out of boredom, and they feed on each other's arrogance like a drug. It's an interesting take on these two that doesn't really get explored often or at all in any of the official games, comics, or shows.
I really wish they could explore this concept in the games. The IDW comics already have a version of this, but having a game where Eggman just gets tired of not being taken seriously he decides to show sonic the truth of the matter and nearly kills him to leave him barley alive just to tell him that "All this time, I've been playing our little game on hard mode. Now you know what it's like when i switch to easy mode."
for dynamics like these some of the most entertaining things to witness are when a third party interferes with them, and makes an enemy out of both, like what we see in sonic forces, they can already do so much when its just them fighting eachother, but when they team up? there's just nothing that can really stop them tbh. bear in mind the only things that can cause a situation like that are like, primordial forces of nature like that time god thing in generations or that moon creature in forces, or the biolizard in sa2, i just hope we get another awesome story like those, preferably in the middle of another duel between them.
I mean,don't we know that if Eggman truly fully wanted to eliminate Sonic and his Friends, he could easily do it but he'll never do it because he'll be super bored because he likes the challenge he and his friends bring?
@@EmptyMan000Which is what people like Infinte, Starline himself, Surge and Kit, have tried to do. Only problem with Surge and Kit succeeding, is that they’ll be empty with nothing left to live for, and the world could threatened by something worse that only Eggman and Sonic could’ve stopped. In turn, the duo would be indirectly, unknowingly dooming the world. But, they probably wouldn’t care about Doomsday. What else, for them, is there to look forward to?
@@garrettviewegh9028 I would say a new villain is needed. Someone dedicated to preparing for that Doomsday and sees Eggman and Sonic as a threat to the world's safety that need to be removed.
I love the detail that Eggman can throw hands. Like, he's literally a King-Pin on his universe among children-sized furries, so him punching nor ragdollling Sonic or any other character there is just perfect.
That honestly is a great analysis of their relationship. Once Sonic's dead, Eggman's won, no question. And where's the fun in that? But if Eggman dies first, Sonic will die of boredom.
I always figured it goes like this: Eggman could absolutely beat Sonic in a 1 v 1 brawl assuming Sonic doesn't have support or an outside influence, but he won't let himself do that, his ego and narcissism won't let him, after all he's Doctor Eggman, and if he's going to beat Sonic it would be because of a plan he made or something he built, to resort to beating him with nothing but his brawn would be a failure in his eyes, and admittance that he couldn't make a plan or build a machine to beat Sonic, and he'll never stoop to that. This comic just adds to it, because it's him admitting that both he and Sonic have been fully capable at times of taking the other out but they choose not to.
This. This, is why Surge, Kit, and at one point Starline, and maybe others, want Sonic and Eggman dead and buried. A pointless conflict that spreads chaos and destruction. Killing millions in the crossfire, and ruining lives. This, is the type of example Whisper, Tangle, Shadow, Blaze, or Silver would kill Eggman for. And the crazy thing is? Some people would praise them for ending the needless, endless cycle of death. Sure, there’d be those like the Deadly Six to take both their place. But, how many more Shadows, Surges, or broken families/lives will there be, until this cycle ends?
But we can't forget, in Sonic world there will be always a threat so powerfull that not even Sonic and his friends could be able to defeat just with they power. Even The END from Sonic Frontiers needed both Sonic and Eggman together to defeat him.
@@cau1537 Exactly. If another world ending threat like that comes along, and Sonic and Eggman are dead because of Surge and Kit, there’s a chance they’re all doomed. Maybe Shadow, Silver and the others could save the day. But if not, everyone would point the finger at Surge and Kit for dooming them. Besides living for each other, there’s nothing else they have to live for. Their lives were taking away and twisted beyond memory. They would probably smirk or be coldly indifferent to them all dying. Because to them, who have nothing to live for in the empty lives they suffer through, the world ending wouldn’t be death. Surge and Kit would likely see it as a sweet release at Death’s embrace. A liberation. A future Silver, Whisper, Blaze, Shadow or Tangle, if pushed enough, would probably kill them. Before or after this. If Sonic or no other witnesses were around to notice/talk them out of it. In another universe or timeline, Whisper could be an emotionless, cold assassin that put almost all of Sonic’s rouge’s gallery in the dirt.
![[FREE] Trippie Redd x Playboi Carti Rage Type Beat "THIRD EYE"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YEy_ly9yiZY/mqdefault.jpg)
the many faces of eggman :
*Egomaniacal
*goofy dude
*sage's father
*moon pisser
*inventor of iphone
@@victorhugobarbosapereira4850 and moon-pisser
i Hope he never pisses on Earth, i live there 😟
Poor Frieza, that Nokia was really something... 💀
and a gamer
@@clementrenaud4260 he realy golded it fr
Their mutual toxicity towards each other is both endearing and terrifying
Like batman and joker
I mean it’s every hero-villain relationship.
The voice acting only made it more terrifying
@@robertofabrizioiparraguirr6038no batman isn’t cocky
This is anime levels of banter
I like to think that we enjoy stories so much because they make things more interesting.
By using conflict alone, you can tell a thousand stories by weaving in your own ideas.
The conflict and ideas we receive from the story has us coming back for more, like any other type of euphoria.
The same can be applied to other art forms, such as music.
Eventually we try to change stories to make them enjoyable again, even altering the original message and moral of the story.
But the fact remains that we keep coming back.
Positive Feedback Loops can be the best or worst thing to happen to an individual.
"At this point, it's a game. If he gives in, I win... and he knows that."
- Abridged!Tenshinhan
@@Mumu2k3 real
Hmmmmm
YES! reference
Which ep?
@@manomarmanomar5344 season 3, when trunks goes back to his timeline after Goku comes back to earth iirc
dang! this makes both sonic and eggman look like a villain. both knowingly feed on each others conflicts out of self gain
@@TheNamesArif yup cuz if one of them does end up dying, the game is over. I love comics that kinda explore that dynamic
Yeah, i really like this interpretation, but i like more the reason we see in IDW, sonic truly believe that eggman one day can be good, and almost succeed with Mr.Tinker, sadly it didn't last but it proves that there's a chance
@@chirri198 and in the other hand, Eggman doesn’t want to destroy Sonic the easy and cheap way
@@ShmokeJoestar Honestly your video gave me the desire to want a villain that actually wants to destroy both Sonic AND Eggman because of all the suffering that happens because of their constant conflict. Preferably a background character who has just had ENOUGH.
@@EmptyMan000 nice! If you make it a reality I'd love to read/watch it! If you need a VO cast, we gotcha covered 🫡✨
To best put it
Sonic isn’t the type to kill. Not just because he is against the thought of hurting people but because death is an ultimatum, a finality. He represents ultimate freedom and once someone is dead… they are cemented in that final state of being. They run out of choices.
He is inherently a selfish protagonist BECAUSE he gives his freedom to everyone, holding by his morals no matter what
Meanwhile Eggman? Eggman is ego incarnate. He HAS to prove he is superior to Sonic, that he can outmatch the icon of nature with the creations of man. Everything he does is to prove he is simply better. Why level a city with a nuclear bomb when you can do it with a water god? Anyone can use nukes, but only he could pull off his schemes. He won’t ever use a cheap tactic to win unless he can rationalize it as him truly outsmarting Sonic in a way only HE could. It is why his greatest creation isn’t something built to counter Sonic’s weaknesses, but match his strengths, to prove he can make a BETTER Sonic.
Sonic is a goalpost he wont stop until he feels he has truly surpassed it, meanwhile Sonic will never kill Eggman because that goes against his views on freedom. It is a set of ideals which, together, just make an endless cycle
This is a great summary of these two good job 🤩
And this is why Infinite, Surge, Kit, and Starline would want the two in the dirt. Their conflict has gone on for decades. Killed those who were caught in the crossfire, and ruined lives like Surge’s in the process. How many more Shadows, Surges, or Infinities will there be until they both end up sharing tombstones? This only justifies the duo’s hate of him and Eggman. But, if the two were taken out, they’d only be jeopardizing the world to be conquered/destroyed by a worse threat. And wouldn’t realize the mistake until they’re both on death’s door.
@@garrettviewegh9028i've seen someone point this out, but while taking out Eggman might seem like a net positive through and through, there have been times where the two had to work together to save the world, most recently, the END in Sonic frontiers could only be defeated with the help of Eggman, and while he was the one kind of responsible for the whole thing, it was only a matter of time before some other scientist in the future went and did the same thing. And that's not even counting people like Shadow and even Surge herself, their villany came through circumstance and, in Shadow's case they turned out quite heroic in the end. In short, Sonic's idealism might seem naive sometimes, but it's still a very valid point, and that's shown in characters like Shadow
I just want to comment about this panel in the comics on how Eggman admits he could carpet bomb Sonic if he chooses, but he cannot find the joy in that. He needs to see Sonic suffer and shatter before he kills him.
@@franconunez925 He already tried in Sonic 3. Didn't do jack either.
1:28 remember, eggman can throw hands. He yeeted starline and surge disrespectfuly.
I still call bullcrap on that, he is a FATASS..BIG ASS…SMART ASS…EGG.
@Primeleeee Who is also insanely athletic and durable. Doesn't matter how he's shaped, he could beat most of these critters' asses bare handed.
He also stopped Amy's hammer mid swing. Had baby girl flabbergasted
@@Primeleeee Not only that but he canonically outspeeded Sonic
@@TheEggHunter Well according to Rouge he had that cardio regime... I wonder what else did the doctor do. Maybe BOOM Eggman has that physique because he is more constant than Games Eggman.
Man, this completely re-contextualizes the both of them - Eggman isn't some bumbling genius who is too egotistical to just gun down Sonic the moment he captures him instead of monologuing, he is THRILLED by the challenge the Hedgehog presents...
Sonic, despite being a hero on the outside, is suggested to also have a greedy reason for fighting Egg-man - the adrenaline rush of being pushed to his limits
Yeah, this has been pretty much acknowledged since Sonic Heroes. In the instruction book that came with the game it states that Eggman sees Sonic more as a rival than a threat. At this point it is probably just something to kill time.
If eggman bites the dust then what will sonic have left?
Zavok? Metal sonic? His poor imitator? A mercenary with a chip on their shoulder?
@@korhol2065 Not to mention all of those encounters were thanks to Eggman in some way
Metal Sonic was invented by the mad genius, Zavok only met Sonic thanks to Eggman, same with Shadow, and Infinite gained his power thanks to Eggman, too.
I've always loved the interpretation of Sonic's character, that even though he is a fundamentally good person, he's also a reckless thrill-seeker. He'll often choose to make things more challenging or difficult for himself if it means he can have just a bit more fun with it, even if doing so raises the stakes and puts more lives in danger. Sonic is all about living HIS life to the fullest, and he'll do just about anything to achieve that.
They're both literally insane.
🃏 + 🦇🧍♂️
What’s worse than a madman with nothing left to lose? One that knows they’re insane.
@@garrettviewegh9028and here we got 2
Worse.
They are Chaos. True Chaos.
Uncontrollable, unpredictable, Chaos.
all the years with all that Chaos emeralds and chaos ring probably haven't been kind to their sanity
These two are basically Batman and Joker
"You won't kill me out of some misplaced sense of self-righteousness. And I won't kill you because you're just too much fun. I think you and I are destined to do this forever."
Well between sonic , eggman and joker, batman is the only one that is delusional about his motives xd
I don’t think Sonic is Batman though.
@Nsfwstar Not really. Batman doesn't kill for the same reason Sonic doesn't kill, he believes people deserve the chance to be better. That and he's an extra-judicial vigilante who shouldn't be deciding who lives and dies.
@@selinawalsh9075 batman is so delusional that joker after destroying and killing metropolis , superman wife and son , batman is annoyed because superman dares to kill joker
So yeah he's delusional about his true reality lol
@@Nsfwstar Injustice is not a very well written story, I wouldn't use that as some takedown of Batman. Even so, the story ends up vindicating Batman because Superman goes full despot after this.
Starline: Yeaaah. We need to actually win.
Surge: To hell with that! That's why I'm here!
And then both Sonic and Eggman team up and proceeds to beat the sht out of Starline and Surge because they fail to understand why the 2 of them are like that in the 1st place 👀
They both hold back and they both know it. Even in the old show its seen very clearly when Sonic goes dark. He was faster, stronger, and ready to kill. Eggman simply walks in and stops him, the game was over and he knew how powerful sonic could really be. And he was ready for it.
They both need something to win against, so they'll never stop.
Unlike Batman and Joker who clash to see who will break or rather who ends up killing the other; Sonic and Eggman are similar but in a way that's more like respect and yet to also fill the other's boredom. It's much nicer because their endless fight isn't as bad as the first two.
Alastor: “Why does anyone do anything? SHEER AND UTTER BOREDOM”!
@@dragonknight1560 *respectfully summons god of destruction*
*Respectfully sucks super chaos without consent, shoots into space and summons even bigger god of destruction*
@@Cyanfox3006 And yet respectfully Sonic beat all of those Gods and Eggman is like "Well, back to the board"
Heck he even conquered 99,9% the world once and Sonic still won.
@@dragonknight1560 Yeah, the favourite part of all that for me, Eggman doing this not even to only satisfy his own ego, to destroy/conquer the world, but to also play with sonic, sonic as a toy of course
@@Cyanfox3006 Yep so very true and Sonic enjoys the challenge and the sense of adventure when he fights Eggman. It would be boring if he's not around even though other villains do exist out there.
Canon tbh
Eggman has openly admitted he's always been able to kill sonic and chooses not to.
Not out of boredom though, out of ego. He wants to defeat sonic and have him be alive to witness his success, not simply kill him. Plus he DOES love fighting him.
Bro got that megamind mindset
Megamind vs Metroman except both of them have Megamind's mentality towards their rivalry and revel in it instead of have existential crises about their purposes in life. After all, they're living their purpose so might as well make it as fun as possible.
@@joshuakim5240 Metroman would love to have that mindset but Megamind was never a competition to him. Like Bro is so fast even the light beam that's so instant got slow that it's like a month in his POV hence he got tired of the constant unchallenging competition and quit
Sonic and Eggman on the other hand are actual competition to each other. Both of them can put a dent into each other Ego and they are always FIRED UP to make the other eat their word.
Eh, he said: "I could carpet bomb him anytime I wanted" , but the thing is: he DID try that in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but Sonic managed to outrun the bombs. Things is, Eggman talks a lot, but rarely backs it up, having tried to straight up murder Sonic multiple times.
Point is, always take what the doctor says with a grain of salt, he's a pretty biased guy due to his ego.
I geniuenly adore this kind of dynamic between hero and villan, where they both still stop eachother, yet are still willing to repsect one another in the process and also i love this kind of "if one of us dies the game is over, now the question is WHO DIES FIRST." Situation Its so cool to see :3
Surge as she sets fire to the chessboard: “BOTH OF YOU LOSE! GAME OVER”!! *electrocutes Eggman* “Anyone want a scrambled egg”?!
Sonic: “I am going to end yo-“!
Infinite: “You were saying?! We, exist because of your pointless, ENDLESS conflict. So, for our sakes and the rest of the world, you both go in the dirt! *puts Sonic in an illusion in which he drones but is instead Kit drowning him while Surge electrifies the water to give Sonic a heart attack*
The three of them: “See you never”. *goes they’re separate ways as the world later adds the two to the obituaries*
@garrettviewegh9028 Deadpool: like that would happen(somebody once told me)
@@garrettviewegh9028 Sonic and Eggman together are literally unstopable,so nope not happening
@@garrettviewegh9028 that will never happen, they are simply not in the same league as sonic and eggman and could not win
@@chaminador Idk, I feel, given the right circumstances: metal is out, no one like Sonic or Tails is there to save him, the duo could kill him. But, we really haven’t seen the two fight one of Eggy’s mechs or other super weapons. Also, there’s the fact Surge only almost killed Sonic and Eggman, because she’d been powered up with one of the doctor’s devices. Which, almost killed her as well.
It is a fact Eggman can throw hands.
I like this interpretation, this is a deeper and darker representation of their dynamic.
The one time Eggman was deadset on killing Sonic was in the Egg Dragoon Fight. He really wanted him to die.
Early 2000s eggman did not play 🙅🏿♂️. Mf blew up the moon, held Amy at GUNPOINT. He was a menace 😅
Let's not forget his comment to Tails: "You fool...Away! *Before I make mincemeat out of you...!* "
Unleashed Eggman and Werehog Sonic were fucking crazy dude. Guy wanted to kill the rodent and Sonic straight up THREW this main into the VOID without mercy
@@devionewilkins8903 you forgot that he set up explosives to blow up an entire island in SA2
I like to imagine that eggman could throw hands with sonic as we have already seen with Surge and Starline (Possibley due to genetic mutation or bio-mechanic alteration) but hed rther fight in a robot to make things more intresting, as a wise man once said (Me), "To be deafeated is not to lose, it is to learn how to win"
After all, he's a genius that reached where he is through study and hard work.
Even if he became capable of fighting fist to fist with Sonic and win through side effects and other things of all the machines and mystical artifacts he has interacted with across his life...
That wouldn't really be the victory of his years and years of effort, but rather, the result of causality leading to his victory.
As a genius, his ultimate victory has to be in a 1v1, using the science, the art, he has polished throughout his entire life.
With a machine capable of surpassing even Sonic in a direct confrontation, rather than just carpet-bombing the entire country with nukes so Sonic won't even have where to run.
THAT, is the True Victory of Doctor Eggman.
I mean bro was faster than classic sonic in the games
Starline had no powers at the time. Also egg man stands no chance against an infinite speed superhuman hedgehog who destroys metal by running.
That's an amazing quote that I wiill be using
Eggman slammed Starline into concrete so hard my guy BOUNCED 😭
The embodiment of freedom vs the embodiment of ego, locked in a conflict of unimaginable power, I don't think they'll ever stop fighting so long as what they represent stays alive.
What you're talking about, is called a "force of nature"
Funny enough that reminded me of those 60s dark fantasy novels Eternal Champions and Elric of Melnibone by Michael Moorcock, the conflict between Chaos and Laws for the domination of the multiverse but if too much Chaos the multiverse will become entropy and formless, but too much Law the multiverse will froze and stuck in time forever and that is why the Balance exist to balance both cosmic power with it Eternal Champions and maintained that Status Quo for all eternity.
Your defeat will be my last legacy to this earth
Goosebumps........
Sonic is just a guy that loves adventure and Eggman's ultimate goal is building a theme park, something that is liked for the constant thrill it provides. Sonic and Eggman will put every excuse under the book has to why they do the things the do, sonic will say it's freedom and Eggman will say he wants the conditions to be just right, but the truth is they just both like fighting each other. They are in a theme park of fun that neither will get off from because they are hedonistic in their desires, both willing to stop anyone who tries to put an end to their game.
That is the REAL explanation to why sonic and eggman are fighting.
If there was one thing Starline and Surge were right about, it was that Sonic and Eggman are trapped in a cycle.
Eggman's pride will never allow him to change. He'll never stop until the entire world is under his complete control.
Sonic's code will never allow him to truly punish Eggman. He'll always let Eggman go when he has the chance to put a stop to his evil once and for all.
And the world lets it happen. The world does not call for Eggman's head, even after the Metal Virus. Sonic is not held responsible for his inactions, not even by his friends. The world is complacent and content, for as long as they have Sonic the Hedgehog to protect them, they don't need to worry about Eggman. They don't have to learn to protect themselves.
@@kingcamelot1395 that is a hell of a breakdown brother, if you ever come back to doing videos I think you'd make absolutely banger breakdown and character analysis videos! Thanks for watching and supporting 🫡✨
this is also possibly an effect caused by Chaos(not the villain, but the power itself).
i read a while back that the emeralds act act as their own balance. when too much "good" exists, they entice "evil" to hunt them down and use their power. if too much "evil" exists, they cause " good" to rise up and quell it.
Chaos is neutral, so it constantly keeps both sides against each other, warping space/time to allow events such as sonic vs eggman to keep happening. my theory is that both have harnessed its power too much and have become linked to it, hence why neither stay dead or down for long.
@@Goddess_IshtarI would say that sounds ridiculous. But In essence the most ridiculous and chaotic answers seem more logical when it comes to chaos emeralds,I wouldn’t be surprised if somehow sonic and eggman ended up someway making emeralds just make the cycle. Like just their existence causes emeralds to be
@@greenightponydragon5127 considering how the franchise works? I would not be surprised.
@@greenightponydragon5127Id say opposite. Rather, existence of chaos emeralds caused Sonic and Eggman to become who they are
What's truly terrifing is that those final two goals are not mutually exclusive.
A war between not only their mindsets but their entire existences. A creature with infinite power (embodiment of chaos and freedom) vs a man of infinite knowledge (embodiment of order and ego) nither of them unwilling to truly overthrow each other else they are also destroyed in the process
"You and I are the same in the way that we have borrowed styles that we won't change
Yours is filled with evil and mine's not, there is no way I can lose"
That gave me a new perspective on that line
my GOD I was not expecting him to sock the shit out of Sonic. Clearly the hog didn’t expect it either 😂
The moments when eggman gets physical with the sonic cast will always be jarring and hilarious as hell 😂
Funny thing is, this is sorta canon in the Archie Comics universe.
There Sonic is so unbelievably powerful that he can go as far as bend reality to his will and even one of the most powerful entities recognizes that the only way he can “defeat” Sonic is to just wait him out with his immortality (and even that might not work). If he truly wanted to stop Eggman, he could have done it years ago in a million different ways.
@@Doctor4077 Yeah I think he was a mammoth and Silver future mentor.
I'm getting a lot of Raiden vs. Senator Armstrong vibes here.
"Standing here,
I realise,
That you're just like me trying to make history,
But who's to judge, the right from wrong?
When our guards are down I think we'll both agree,
That violence breeds violence,
But in the end it has to be this way!"
It always has been.
This chemistry works so well for so long I am surprised none of sonic’s friends or eggman’s two robot lackeys figuring out.
This feels like how the first cutscene of the final game or comic arc would have Begin
"That; is boredom" is such a raw line especially paired with the silhouette of Eggman, doing the comics right
I mean, this would explain why Eggman hasn't tried killing Sonic since Adventure 2. He actively did and almost successfully killed Sonic, and in those "final" moments, Eggman sounded sad. I suppose on some level, if Sega was willing to go down this route and let real writers cook instead of letting Eggman look like a joke, I could see this playing out. Sonic is based on Goku and both characters are incredibly poisonous to their own story and series. They could stop conflicts long before they grow with their powers, but also seek thrills and excitement because it is their nature. Its less about success and more about pride.
One could also see it as Eggman realizing he'll fall stagnant once Sonic is dead.
As much as it may feel like he's trapped in a cycle where he cannot escape from...
...What has, in the entire human history, been a more effective motivation to push technilogical advance than war?
A worthy opponent, the kind he'll never find again, will continue pushing Eggman to innovate, to find new creative solutions to problems, to push the rational limit of science just a little bit more.
Once Sonic is out of the picture, and there is nobody else that can actually become a meaningful obstacle to this plans...
...What would push him to continue dragging science beyond its limits?
As Evil as he may be, as Ambitious he may be, he's still, in the end, a Scientist and Inventor.
And there would be nothing sadder for one, than losing their reason to improve his designs.
Sonic is not based on Goku. His personality is in part based on Bill Clinton's "get it done" attitude. But absolutely nothing about Goku's personality inspired Sonic. That is just an unfounded rumor.
Sonic is not based on goku
Necessity is the mother of all invention. Without a problem to solve how would they improve? With Sonic who could challenge him? With Egg man without Sonic what is the point of inventing or making better robots when there is nothing to use them on? With every failure he improves figuring out what works and what doesn't work.
@@shrubman3422 Sonic has no shortage of rivals, and in the last few games he's been getting more powerful on his own. Eggman doesn't need a rival to improve his machines either. He could just...make better machines. You don't need external motivation to improve.
I mean, the answer has been staring us in the face since Sonic 2.
Chaos.
Sonic, and Robotnik are the living embodiments of Chaos.
The light, and the dark.
Both need each other to survive, and one day will destroy each other.
And yes, I am aware that there is an entire character who's entire deal is being the pure essence of Chaos.
But Chaos is EVERYWHERE.
Ying and yang: One can't exist without the other
Yin and yang
Funny enough that reminded me of those 60s dark fantasy novels Eternal Champions and Elric of Melnibone by Michael Moorcock, the conflict between Chaos and Laws for the domination of the multiverse but if too much Chaos the multiverse will become entropy and formless, but too much Law the multiverse will froze and stuck in time forever and that is why the Balance exist to balance both cosmic power with it Eternal Champions and maintained that Status Quo for all eternity. And yes his works inspired Warhammer 40k, fantasy and many white hair brooding edgelord dark fantasy to come.
@@longwlenguyen4214 Interesting
@@Dusk_Mightyena Yeah and also Michael Moorcock one of the first to introduced the Multiverse in fiction works way before Marvel did it.
@@longwlenguyen4214 Cool
It’s like Eggman always said he can’t just defeat Sonic just like that he has to outwit Sonic in every way he can to prove his superiority,only then will he finish him off. But on the other hand he knows if he does kill Sonic that world domination would be boring and too easy because he would have nobody who could challenge him like Sonic can.
Sonic isn't the judge or executioner, he's just a guy who loves to see the world ans its people.
That would be believable if he DIDN'T do more than just see. He protects the world too
@@EmptyMan000well, if everything in the world were to be abide to egg man’s command whatever he like to see of the world would definitely be gone
He didn’t save the world cause people need the savior, he save the world cause he still want to have a nice green hill to run XD
The interaction between them is so good
This made me see their relationship as the batman and joker of sega
The idea that they keep one another around simply because they can reliably rival each other every Step of the way, knowing that one another makes their goals worth it and feel esrned
eggman is absolutely right he could have crushed sonic along time ago, he just needed to drop his "i want to win using only my brains rather then my brawn" idology. same with sonic he could have easily killed eggman even in the first game, but thats no fun he doesn't want to kill someone who could be the greatest hero even surpassing him.
they absolutely feed off of each other's defeats and victories.
It’s so off from what the characters really are, yet so compelling
I’d love to see this dynamic explored in characters who are genuinely motivated by this ideal
Usually would’ve villain makes us kind of proclamation. The hero was appalled.
But the fact that sonic kind of agrees with it, Makes the whole thing even darker.
I love the idea that Eggman if he wanted to could genuinely throw hands with the best of them.
The only reason he chooses not to is because he believes so hard in his own brilliance.
There's something about Eggman's history as a nerd in a bubble chair that always makes it go hard when he actually throws a punch.
Finally, a comic that shows how strong Eggman is he is by no means a weakling. After all we seen how fast he can run, he is by no means puny.
The fact that Eggman was able to punch him here means that he was able to move fast enough to where Sonic couldn't react in time. Meaning he wasn't lying about being able to put an end to Sonic's life whenever he wants, but that would just take all the fun out of it...
Fantastic comic. :)
I love the mindset that they both show here. Chasing a goal just for the sake of having a goal to chase. I can totally relate to that. A sort of "It's more about the journey than the destination" mentality.
Bordom truly is the absolute enemy of all things
0:58 is some serious Judge Holden vibes.
It’s the Teddy Roosevelt grin
"If the egotist is weak, his egotism is worthless. ..."
For me, Dr Robotnik is the perfect definition of a egoistic man but with the will, intellect and strength to prove with.
So often is Eggman shown as being goofy nowadays that I forget how threatening Dr. Robotnik is
This goes insanely hard and feels so true like they could have ended each other in so many situations but they didn’t cause Eggman is the only reason why people try to stand against sonic and sonics the reason why nothing bad ever last
Sonic and Eggman remind me of Batman and the joker, one cannot be without the other to kick they’re but and or have they’re but kicked. The only difference is that instead of cold, determined calculation vs the chaotic symbol of death and destruction , it’s bold, stubborn calculation vs the chaotic symbol of life and freedom.
It’s actually very interesting :D
“Without Batman, crime has no punchline.”
“I’m meaningless without you.”
“🫵😂 that’s so pathetic!”
“Ah f*ck you, sonic!”
-dorkly eggman
I KNOW THAT WAS SONIC FOR HIRE MAN 🤣🤣🤣
What's crazy is that in the comics he outright admits he could've always just carpet bombed him and the freedom fighters but he doesn't want a quick win he wants to earn it😅
Chaotic Good vs Chaotic Evil lmao
That was really good character writing, and you did great job conveying the tone.
@@marcogonzalez9673 thank you! I will continue to do my best!
This is why I love villains and heroes who have a twisted personal sense of obsession. Just like how Joker needs Batman, Sephiroth needs Cloud, Death needs Puss In Boots, Luthor needs Superman and Eggman here in this comic needs Sonic.
Joker needs Batman to contrast with his chaotic insanity. Batman serves as order and stability against losing oneself. Batman is someobe who will not let life ruin him unlike Joker who embraces life as a cruel joke. Because just like what Joker says without Batman there is no Joker and there is no joke without the punchline.
Sephiroth needs Cloud as a sign of rememberance. He doesn't care for Cloud as a person but rather a nobody because unlike Cloud he was the former famous hero. He was the messiah and chosen one but Cloud was supported and cling onto support mentally and chosed himself while Sephiroth succumb to delusions.
Death is an invisible force watching Puss until Puss ruins his lives so he wishes to destroy it out of pure joy. He is annoyed and disgusted the "greatest hero" wastes and doesn't appreciate what he had. Puss was too clumsy and as a result never understood the meaning of life. So he wishes to teach Puss a lesson in the most cruel way as possible.
Luthor despises Superman because he believes Superman is a facade. He believes Superman shouldn't be a representation of humanity's savior. For he believes he is the savior but despite being human, he is a prideful and selfish man. Whereas Superman is hunanity at its best with true altruism and hope for the better. To help people and not let despair ruin him.
And here is how I feel about Sonic and Eggman. They enjoy battling each other because it's fun. Sonic represents freedom but his methods of doing so are very complicated. Meanwhile Eggman is the representation of the horrors of egotism and machinery. He doesn't care for others besides himself and his creations. For Sonic it is fun and for Eggman it is. That is the reaosn why they fit as perfect rivals against each other. Which is why their dynamic of fighting each other will never end. Both od them do not want to end because where's the fun when the fun is over?
Let's not forget Eggman actually believes the world would be a better place as a bunch of theme parks inhabited by robots
‘An endless war without meaning’
What a clean hook from Eggman, honestly i would like to have his strength and iq but mostly his iq.
That panel of "That Is boredom" goes unbelievable hard
You know...
This and the speech Eggman had about hiw he could carpet bomb sonic any time he wants, but instead insisting in "properly" defeat Sonic makes me wish there was a fan comic where it's sonic to snap at somebody about how Eggman is *His* to defeat, and nobody else
Eggman has stated before that he's been capable of killing Sonic forever, but that isn't the point; just _killing_ him any old way isn't good enough, it's about proving that he's superior.
Eggman is such an interesting character in that regard. He's absolutely capable of just killing the opposition and ruling the world but... that would be boring. Conquest is much more fun. And you know what else is fun? Theme parks, so he builds those too
Their vicious cycle not only keeps them as each other's prisoners, but the world stagnates under their perpetual conflict.
Crazy thing is, while Shadow would be against Sonic’s murder, he wouldn’t be exactly angry about Surge and Kit killing Eggman too. Likely, he’d put them down if needed. Or offer a chance at redemption. That, or he’d put them in holes alongside Sonic and Eggman. He’d probably sigh and grieve. Only comforted by the hope that the world could finally have the time to really recover without the constant conflict of their rivalry.
How Sonic and Eggman will keep fighting until one gets tired of the other, But unlike cat and mouse, that will never happen because;
1. Someone has to save the land from the big villain.
And 2. Where's the fun in that?
This was actually pointed out in both Archie and the recent tie-in comics. But more than that, the two are forces that keep changing the world and its people for better and worse all at once. Why else would they be the most frequent users of the chaos emeralds? They’re both chaos incarnate even if they don’t realise it.
Fun creates their relationships with everyone around them.
Common enemies strengthen them.
The outcome of every game immortalises all of it.
The two of them are a pair of gods among mortals. And we’re all here for it!
They've perfected being a hater into an art, and I respect that.
the crazy thing is, eggmans not wrong. sonic and him have done this song and dance for years, meddled with aliens and gods in this tango they do, and while it seems they hate each other at times, there is no doubt the two like each other's company, sonic always smiling when eggman got some new crazy scheme and eggman read to show off why he is better! a endless tango one could say
I really want a Tails comic like this, it always bothered me that Eggman builds crazy devices and robots that do all sorts but when it comes to Tails he rarely seems to (to my knowledge, all I know about what he's built is his plane and in games a couple of support robots).
It has me wondering if he's afraid that building amazing things will lead to people viewing him like Eggman or if he's afraid it'll put him on a path to becoming like him.
Nope, Tails is as smart as Eggman, but it doesn’t make sense for him to build things like Eggman because he isn’t evil. Plus, Eggman is literally rich.
So, Eggman has unlimited resources, while Tails builds things from scraps.
@Fox-Enthusiast05
I get that Eggman has a lot of resources but I don't get why building stuff Is inherently evil, fight fire with fire, fight genius contraptions with genius contraptions, plus wouldn't Tails be able to get resources by asking Sally, she's a princess and I assume she has quite a few resources available to her.
Archie and IDW agree on one thing: The reason Sonic and Eggman haven't won against each other permanently, is because they like fighting each other
*won, not one.
More character development than the developers.
This is definitely Archie Eggman. It’s too bad the series got rebooted before we got to see Eggman delve further into wickedness.
@@platinumstar3 Archie and Deem Bristow definitely had an effect on how I voice EGGMAN, so I do my best to lean into the true villainy 🤣
Hard disagree. Archie Eggman wanted Sonic dead so badly that he suffered a nervous breakdown after a particularly bad loss. He straight up shouted that he hated Sonic.
@@a-buttonace I’m talking about after that. He killed Sally before the first genesis wave undid it, attempted to robotize everybody and everybody that was already robotized would just be destroyed, and used Metal Sally. We don’t really know what Ian had planned aside from the fact that he wanted Eggman to be much more menacing.
@@platinumstar3 That doesn't change my answer. If anything, the Genesis wave and everything Eggman did after were direct results of his defeat against Sonic in StH #200. He tried to recreate the world, and when that failed he doubled down on his world conquering efforts by expanding his empire. Eggman has never been motivated by boredom, and he especially doesn't find Sonic entertaining. He might respect his abilities, but he does not like him and would much rather him not be around. Almost every piece of official Sonic media has made that abundantly clear.
@@a-buttonaceYou forget that the Robotnik in Archie Sonic is Robo-Robotnik in the second half of the series. He literally states the reason he came to the Prime universe is because he conquered his world already, killed Sonic and the freedom fighters, and because there was no Robotnik in the prime universe anymore he came to fill the role because he was bored.
this actually make the whole sonic being neutral make sense
The worst part is, this is canonically why they don’t end each other!
Now, this is the type of dark sonic comic I can get behind of! 😅😂
Eggman was able to make the death egg, he can clearly drop a nuke on Sonic’s general location
Yeah the eclipse cannon from his nutty grandpa.
This is pretty interesting. They kind of have a Batman-Joker, egomaniacal, trauma-bond-like relationship when you think about it. They're the only thing keeping each other from going insane to the point of destroying anyone or anything they care about out of boredom, and they feed on each other's arrogance like a drug. It's an interesting take on these two that doesn't really get explored often or at all in any of the official games, comics, or shows.
GOT DANG!!! THIS IS SO GOOD!!!!
@@YTTMNM55 ayyyy preesh homie! I love dipping into the EGGMAN bag 🫡✨
It's shit like this man, Sonic and Eggman are just legitimately terrifying to everyone around them, and artist like these know how to show it.
I really wish they could explore this concept in the games. The IDW comics already have a version of this, but having a game where Eggman just gets tired of not being taken seriously he decides to show sonic the truth of the matter and nearly kills him to leave him barley alive just to tell him that
"All this time, I've been playing our little game on hard mode. Now you know what it's like when i switch to easy mode."
for dynamics like these some of the most entertaining things to witness are when a third party interferes with them, and makes an enemy out of both, like what we see in sonic forces, they can already do so much when its just them fighting eachother, but when they team up? there's just nothing that can really stop them tbh. bear in mind the only things that can cause a situation like that are like, primordial forces of nature like that time god thing in generations or that moon creature in forces, or the biolizard in sa2, i just hope we get another awesome story like those, preferably in the middle of another duel between them.
I mean,don't we know that if Eggman truly fully wanted to eliminate Sonic and his Friends, he could easily do it but he'll never do it because he'll be super bored because he likes the challenge he and his friends bring?
Are they.... Flirting with eachother?
Ah yes, Starline was Right about that
Indeed. The Sonic Cycle has to stop one day and someone has to try to Stop It.
@@EmptyMan000Which is what people like Infinte, Starline himself, Surge and Kit, have tried to do. Only problem with Surge and Kit succeeding, is that they’ll be empty with nothing left to live for, and the world could threatened by something worse that only Eggman and Sonic could’ve stopped. In turn, the duo would be indirectly, unknowingly dooming the world. But, they probably wouldn’t care about Doomsday. What else, for them, is there to look forward to?
@@garrettviewegh9028 I would say a new villain is needed. Someone dedicated to preparing for that Doomsday and sees Eggman and Sonic as a threat to the world's safety that need to be removed.
Gotta give props to the eggman VA, he sounds like Giancarlo Esposito
@@SkeletonLeiutenant that's me! Thank you! Giancarlo is a fantastic Actor
@@ShmokeJoestar your welcome
Im pretty sure it's Sonic who holds back on harming eggman directly.
But eggman thinking he could kill sonic at any moment is very in character.
I love this for the same reason i love IDW Eggman
I love the detail that Eggman can throw hands. Like, he's literally a King-Pin on his universe among children-sized furries, so him punching nor ragdollling Sonic or any other character there is just perfect.
That honestly is a great analysis of their relationship.
Once Sonic's dead, Eggman's won, no question. And where's the fun in that? But if Eggman dies first, Sonic will die of boredom.
The love hate from both Sonic and eggman is strong as ever
This twitter artist does not stop creating absolute PEAK
Bro egg man and sonic is cooking here.
I always figured it goes like this:
Eggman could absolutely beat Sonic in a 1 v 1 brawl assuming Sonic doesn't have support or an outside influence, but he won't let himself do that, his ego and narcissism won't let him, after all he's Doctor Eggman, and if he's going to beat Sonic it would be because of a plan he made or something he built, to resort to beating him with nothing but his brawn would be a failure in his eyes, and admittance that he couldn't make a plan or build a machine to beat Sonic, and he'll never stoop to that.
This comic just adds to it, because it's him admitting that both he and Sonic have been fully capable at times of taking the other out but they choose not to.
This. This, is why Surge, Kit, and at one point Starline, and maybe others, want Sonic and Eggman dead and buried. A pointless conflict that spreads chaos and destruction. Killing millions in the crossfire, and ruining lives. This, is the type of example Whisper, Tangle, Shadow, Blaze, or Silver would kill Eggman for. And the crazy thing is? Some people would praise them for ending the needless, endless cycle of death. Sure, there’d be those like the Deadly Six to take both their place. But, how many more Shadows, Surges, or broken families/lives will there be, until this cycle ends?
The funny thing is... the cycle will never broken if you really think about it.
But we can't forget, in Sonic world there will be always a threat so powerfull that not even Sonic and his friends could be able to defeat just with they power.
Even The END from Sonic Frontiers needed both Sonic and Eggman together to defeat him.
@@cau1537 Exactly. If another world ending threat like that comes along, and Sonic and Eggman are dead because of Surge and Kit, there’s a chance they’re all doomed. Maybe Shadow, Silver and the others could save the day. But if not, everyone would point the finger at Surge and Kit for dooming them. Besides living for each other, there’s nothing else they have to live for. Their lives were taking away and twisted beyond memory. They would probably smirk or be coldly indifferent to them all dying. Because to them, who have nothing to live for in the empty lives they suffer through, the world ending wouldn’t be death. Surge and Kit would likely see it as a sweet release at Death’s embrace. A liberation. A future Silver, Whisper, Blaze, Shadow or Tangle, if pushed enough, would probably kill them. Before or after this. If Sonic or no other witnesses were around to notice/talk them out of it. In another universe or timeline, Whisper could be an emotionless, cold assassin that put almost all of Sonic’s rouge’s gallery in the dirt.
you know what I never really thought about it that way.. it makes sense
Eggman? No, That man is 'Dr. Ivo Robotnik' that we seen today.
We gotta remember, eggman is a power house and can bodyslam an adult
Mf eggman applied a "Batman and Joker" situation
In a universe where Sonic and Eggman were actually friends the whole time, and their "fights" were just out of boredom.
All I can think about while watching this is "The soup is cold, but the salad is hot... HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE???"
Cant wait for more comic dubs from your channel!
@@valmid5069 I'm so glad you and everyone enjoyed them so much!