Mother Murders Her 3 Children. Premeditated or Psychotic Break?
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2024
- In this episode, Annie discusses Lindsay Clancy, the Massachussetts mother who is accused of killing her three young children on January 24, 2023, New information from hearings and newly unsealed court documents show that allegedly researched “ways to kill” prior to their deaths.
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*Sources used to collect this information include various public news sites, interviews, court documents, FB groups dedicated to the case, and various news channel segments. When quoting statements made by others, they are strictly alleged until confirmed otherwise. Please remember my videos are my independent opinion and to always do your own research.
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Mother Murders Her 3 Children. Premeditated or Psychotic Break?
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It's the premeditation for me. She researched how to kill them, looked up how much time she would have. She planned it and thought it out over time. She knew what she was doing.
Yes! And the fact that she took her medication after the fact
Absolutely
Wow, society is so lucky to have such knowledgeable and talented individuals who just simply KNOW.
You are Andrea and the reason you are preaching is because you thought of the same yourself.
@@oliveranikolich5317 people presume from evidence presented. Three children are deceased. Society wants to know 'why'.
you can look things up and plan things when youre psychotic dude
Whilst I sympathise with anyone who suffers from postpartum depression/psychosis, I can’t get over hearing the brutal details of how these 3 innocent babies lost their lives. The confusion and terror they must have felt while their mother was murdering them must’ve been horrific.
This woman shouldn’t be free, in my opinion 💔
I agree. I don't have kids, like kids, or want to be around kids... I still feel for them, and can't get why so many people feel for this "mother." I mean, I'm crazy as crazy gets. I still can't sympathize. All kinds of people send the husband money. He turns right around and puts it toward her defense. What about the children? I couldn't deal with someone who did that to my kids. And I don't even like kids!!!
Killer planned it out weeks before
@@maggiesanford8324 right? Same.
Amen Sis!
Exactly!
I think that she knew she couldn’t kill her kids with the husband in the house and needed to figure out how to get him out of the house tells me enough to know that it was NOT a moment of psychosis but an intentional act.
You are more evil than this very mentally ill mother
Agreed. She was on 3 meds and being weaned off. In the court paper's she timed everything to give her time to kill the kid's.
So you can’t do anything intentional with Psychosis? 🤔
She definitely wasn’t in her right state of mind 😢 I believe she will take her own life at some point 🙁
Yeah that’s premeditation at it’s fullest
She had help 5 days a week with people assessing her mental state. She also had her husband working from home, to be there for her. She had way more support than many mothers have. She timed it, by looking up far away the restaurant was, she timed it. I believe it was premeditated. She wanted her husband out of the house for "X' amount of time, so she could do whatever she wanted to do. If she didn't want to hurt them, she could of called 911, or harmed herself only. I am not one to argue postpartum or not, I am saying regardless, even if it's present, she wasn't doing things to keep her kids safe. She was planning to get her husband out of the house, to do what she was determined to do.
With all this "help" , should one of them not have picked up on the fact that they weren't safe with her?
@@marshapieroni6677you would think, but if she did it pre-calculated and premeditated you can appear how you want all day to accomplish the things you desire. Maybe she truly is a sociopath like she was googling, no one truly knows what’s really going on in the inside even with their closest loved ones. Either way, I believe she needs to be locked up for the rest of her life for taking three innocent lives.
Isn’t that part of the psychosis? I wish others would understand Mental health illness better than they did. I can’t believe she was sent home from the hospital!
I agree a 💯
@@marshapieroni6677 she was not disclosing the depth of her thoughts..
This one is tough as I have struggled with post partum depression and am a pediatric nurse. She was obviously struggling mentally but the fact that she researched methods to end her children's lives and still chose strangulation...I have no words...those children were physically and mentally tortured. Whether it's prison or a mental hospital she needs to be kept away
Right? Not to be too morbid, but she had all those sedatives and stuff. She could've made it easier for them.
God I teared up typing that.
Prison. No matter what they tell you, they release dangerous mental patients. Besides that, she deserves to be punished. I've been through PPD. It's a DARK time of the soul. She KNEW right from wrong, and was not suffering from a disconnect with reality.
@@Fran_Glassnot fast enough. She knew exactly how much time she had left & she couldn’t risk them surviving the pills and not passing away quickly before her husband came home. She had to make sure they were dead
@@jensanchez3646there is a difference between ppd and ppp.
I didn’t really follow the details of this case, but I did the Andrea Yates case.
Andrea’s doctors had not wanted to release her from inpatient care, but her insurance ran out. Her husband had been warned not to leave her alone with the kids. A normally bubbly, friendly good mother was eating cereal right out of the box with her hands and barely speaking when Rusty left.
After the murders, when police questioned her it was clear she thought she was doing a good thing. She was sending them to Heaven while they were still too young to be held accountable for any sins that they may have committed. She wasn’t even putting up much of a defense. Her lawyers were just actually competent,
Definitely had serious, serious mental health issues.
This woman is different. She was able to order food, plan the route, get a phone call from her husband and communicate. If she had hurt just one child I might buy a moment of psychosis. However, it took time to strangle 3 children of that age. I figure she didn’t really intend to hurt herself as badly as she did. The cuts were superficial. Even Darlene Routie (not sure of spelling) almost cut a major artery. Her first concern was call a lawyer.
Did she have some mental health issues? Probably. Way overly medicated, but she seemed pretty competent. I don’t believe her.
It should be illegal to prescribe that many psych drugs. Those drugs can be so dangerous.
They also save a lot of lives. The drugs have only gotten better as the years go on. I was on Trazedone (for sleep) which is one of the first generation antidepressants and it was WILD. I felt drunk and out of control after waking up and even after halving the dose. So I quickly discontinued it with the blessing from my psychiatrist. These drugs do need to be respected and there needs to be a close relationship with your psychiatrist which in America can be difficult. I had military healthcare so I was lucky I never worried about costs or coverage
As a nurse, she would know exactly what each drug would do and if they were messing with her mind or not and whether to question the prescriptions. She knew and played the system.
In a years time my psychologist prescribed me 16 different medications. I was constantly taking at least 10 different meds a day. I have whole weeks I don't remember. I've been shown videos on my Husband's phone of me being totally bizarre and not myself but totally functional at the same time. Hard to describe. I'd have moments of clarity but few and far between. Thankfully I never felt a need to hurt myself or anyone around me. I really believe I was capable of doing things totally on autopilot. Scary. I have no idea what Lindsay Clancy was feeling at the time. I just know if I didn't stop seeing that doctor, I could definitely be capable of unreasonable acts.
@@TheGoodGirl33 yes. These drugs are so very dangerous. Fortunately, they don't affect everyone that way. Doctors and the public in general are very ignorant to the possibilities because there are no tests to measure responses. Lives are completely ruined and the person responsible is unfortunately the victim of these drugs and the medical system.
@@TheGoodGirl33well her actions after the murders show that she knew what she was doing
The fact that her first thought when she woke up was about getting a lawyer and not about her kids inmediately caught my attention. Her superficial cuts to her wrists are also very suspect. As for the 13 medications she was on, I don't believe that they were taken all at the same time. There are so many meds because finding the right combination takes trial and error.
Yes! and as someone who works in the clinical research world, it takes years of trial and error!
My heart it breaking for her husband. Just hearing about the moment he found his kids in the basement brought me to tears.
I feel like any mother who did this would not even care about their own defense they would feel so awful they wouldn't care what happens to them which makes me think this was planned
Yessss 👏🏼
Exactly. If her life is so bad and she is suicidal why isn’t she pushing for the death penalty for herself? She thought she’d get away with it and it’s not going how she envisioned…
My sister went through what she’s claiming and luckily we caught it but this is not how she acted. This is not how she responded when she was not mentally there it was scary as hell we wouldn’t be thinking she’s acting normal while having hallucinations. got her the help she needed and she was watched very carefully because of the Andrea Yates situation.
It’s easy to think what people would/should do when you aren’t in their thoughts.
Ok but why?
I thought it was premeditated from the beginning because she picked the restaurant, sent her husband to a pharmacy for something she knew they didn’t have, then asked for a lawyer when she woke up.
This does seem to be happening more often. Could you please cover the most recent case from Kentucky on Tiffanie Lucas that just recently shot and killed her two baby boys ages 6 & 9?
That is also so heartbreaking… and she is claiming she was ‘influenced’ by social media….. narcissists.
This. A few of us were sus and were silenced by the other Mummies who felt it was 'perfectly normal with post partum to KILL your kids'. Oookay Mama's.
@ir9567 idk if you saw the video Annie released when it happened. It was very sympathetic to Lindsey drawing on her own postpartum depression. Very much an emotional appeal that seems to have her personal narrative in it and in line with the social media movement that discouraged having a negative opinion on Lindsey's actions, due to struggling herself.
100% agree. And that 'cocktail' of 3 medications is nothing that can be blamed - probably an antidepressant, a sleeping tablet and a short-term anxiety relief tablet (I say this as a pharmacy grad - this is a very common combination, and its likely the other prescribed meds were just variations of that to try to find what suited her).
An almost identical situation happened in New Zealand with a mother who strangled her 3 kids too, and blamed it on a psychotic break - however I do think that theory has a tiny bit more merit than this one.
Lindsay literally tried to slide down the side of the house so she wouldn't get hurt lol, and her 'cuts' were not even bleeding by the time her husband got to her (he mentions this in the phone call I think). I am sure she is feeling very sad with her situation now because her plan to kill her kids and get away with it isn't working as well as she thought...I doubt there is another reason for her so-called remorse. What a kick in the face to people who are truly suffering and fighting PPD and PPP.
Um do you realise that psychotic or depressed people can plan actions ? They are not just bloody zombies
As a mother I cannot even imagine. I know it happens but I can’t even wrap my head around it. How terrified they must have been. 😢
Oh Patrik! From a full house to empty! How can he ever forget the day he found his kids in that basement??May God help you deal with this tragedy! Shine in heaven angels!!!
Hearing that her cuts were superficial, and the fact that they state she didn't jump but dropped or slid out the window based upon the blood def changes my mind. What a sick tragedy! That poor father has a lifetime of grief and healing.
According to prosecution
Ty for that..im not good at wording my thoughts...the 1st time i heard her araignment(sp) i wondered if she's really really paralyzed..saddestvcase ever! Rih babies..and to Patrick he has my deepest condolences
I think so too, and if she googled different methods then I am sure it was premeditated. Actually that makes it pretty difficult to argue that it wasn't. In my opinion of course.
@@howareyou857did you have the same energy towards men killing their children, like Chris Watts... Because he was equally as mental. And he was manipulated by an outside force. But nahh throw men under the prison and let woman walk free. What wonderful equality. You 🤡☠️ are unbelievable.
How would she be paralyzed from just sliding down though? Doesn't add up.
Andrea Yates actually said that she does not want to attend her parole hearings bc she believes she needs to stay behind bars
And that’s the difference between a real mom who experienced a mental health break and hurt the kids vs this broad who clearly premeditated everything. If anything like this ever happened to me I would want to stay locked up too if I ever came to my senses and if they ever did let me out I would unalive myself instantly. I myself am still dealing with PPD that I got after having my 2nd 18 months ago. I went thru some dark shit in that time and whenever I started having terrible thoughts and feelings I would tell my man or my family and get myself away from everyone so they didn’t have to deal with a full blown episode. I’m sure there’s more healthy coping mechanisms but separating yourself from everyone even if only for a few hours can help you relax and put your mind somewhat back together. And afterwords still feel terrible about it. It’s hard to deal with but making everyone suffer with you is the choice you have to make!
@@madelineimani4752"hurt" her kids......MURDERED
Lindsay needs to be in a instutution the rest of her life! Prison cant take care of her..jmo
I was hoping Annie would mention that. That’s the difference between Andrea and this monster. Andrea was actually ill and knows she deserves to be locked away for what she did.
And she should remain behind bars.
My mom has experienced psychosis. There's a misconception that psychosis is always a very obvious break from reality that everyone in a normal state of mind would be able to see as clearly unhealthy. But that's not true. She says it feels almost like reality, but not quite. My mom's psychosis was characterized by a delusion that she was the only real person in the world and everyone else wasn't. Like, everyone around her was like a hologram or something. She appeared depressed, but it wasn't apparent to people around her state of mind was THAT far out there.
I think this woman was psychotic. I don't believe that psychosis always makes you unable to plan. She might have planned her actions that day to an extent, but she could have also been psychotic.
Agreed. My mom is sick too.
Even if she was psychotic, she knew what she was doing and that it was wrong. Life in prison.
I agree w you ❤
@elizabethcross779 I don't know, I'd just rather my tax dollars go toward preventing this in the first place than punishing mentally ill people, but that's just me.
And psychosis makes you feel like the lines between right and wrong are very blurred. Even if you understand that other people might not approve of something, it doesn't feel like it matters.
Either way, that's just your (uneducated) opinion.
@@missbritface agreed. She needs help.
My heart aches for Patrick. I don’t know how people go on.
If I woke up and realized I had done this while in psychosis I would take my life . I would not care about my life I would not stop sobbing . I would ask for forgiveness every second of my life 🥺
That was my exact thoughts, too.. I have 3 kids, and the thought of them being hurt (much less killed, and by ME), I would've taken myself out.. I can't even imagine what my life would be like without them, and I definitely can't imagine being the one to hurt them!! I can tell you one thing, though.. With 100% certainty.. My first words, waking up, would not have been "do I need an attorney?".. I wouldn't care what happened to me anymore.. It's absolutely tragic.. Those poor babies 💔
When I woke up in the ICU and realized I was still alive - I was pissed! I wasn't relieved, I wasn't grateful. I didn't cry forever, I was empty of any real feeling. I didn't have hope but I also didn't have anxiety, fear, thoughts constantly running in my head unable to sleep, or depression. I didn't even care to try again, it seemed more effort than I could manage and I was so numb I didn't have the feelings that drove me to the attempt in the first place. Just.... nothing. I believe she will feel as you expect eventually, she's just in such a bad state she isn't capable yet.
And it's hard to kill yourself. I could believe she could try to cut her neck and throat and that's harder than she thought and when she tried to jump out the window she grabbed the windowsill out of self preservation. A lot of people have that automatic response. When my uncle died from hanging we found out that it's normal that people fight it when they start to die, just as a natural self preservation. Which is horrific. I hate to think about it but it's important people know that because no one should say that anyone was faking it for a THAT reason
No, you wouldn't behave as LIndsey is behaving because YOU may not be under the heavy chemical infuence of Big Pharma as Lindsey is and had been. That's the difference between you and Lindsey.
Who says she was done with psychosis though.....it's not like you wake up after doing something during psychosis....psychosis continues until it is treated properly and it takes time.
I think two things can be true at the same time. She could have had psychosis and she preplanned the murders. She was sick either way if she “meant” it or not. She needs to be locked up either way.
EXACTLY 100% my thoughts as well
This...
Exactly my thoughts as well.
Agree
She wouldn’t have pre planned her children’s murders if she was having psychosis..it is an extremely disorganized thought and behavior process.
As a nurse, she should have known that Valium and Klonopin shouldn't be taken together as well as Ambien & Trazodone.
I have a fairly extensive mental health history and as a person who was very close to successful in my attempt (like calling my family suggesting they come because they were unsure I was going to make it) I 100% think her behavior tracks. I don't believe anyone stressing the fact that her behavior that day was normal has much understanding. Because that's exactly what you do. I tried very hard to act normal, even as if I was improving so those around me would relax, less alert. If someone asked how I was doing I would smile and tell them things are getting better. I got up that day as normal. Made sure I was well put together, dressed nicely for work - don't want to look like you're losing it after all. Went into the day smiling, upbeat, held morning meeting, isn't it a nice day outside? Waited for everyone to move along, distracted with their own things. I planned long in advance, I was going for success. I took time considering the options, which one I felt I would be able to follow through. You know it might not work, or even worse not work and you end up doing severe damage, trapping yourself in a living hell. There's a reason people choose different methods. Just the stats between men and women are evidence of that. The first method she tried wasn't going to work so she tried another. If anything I think that shows true intent. The fact that she was researching and planned - that's why the questions include are you having thoughts, do you have any plans, do you have means to access? The difference is she included her children, but I think she saw them as an extention of her own plans. As far as medications go - you are basically a guinea pig in a guessing game. If you are that person prescribed the right one on the first try you don't know how lucky you are. Medications don't = you are now fixed. They don't all work for everyone, some even make it worse. Some take weeks to become effective, you don't know if they are helpful or harmful right away. The fact that she racked up that list in a short amount of time, whether taking all of them or only now on a few, suggests to me the medications they gave her weren't working so they attempted another, and another. If she is found not guilty by insanity it's not like she just walks away scott free I don't know why people are acting like she wouldn't have consequences. She will still be locked up, just with access to care she needs. Inmates in a normal prison recieve needed indivdualized care, why shouldn't she? Sorry I know that was really long but I think it's important for ppl to understand.
I get your opinion. And agree with you. For people who have been affected by their mental health, and want to cause an end, it is somewhat planned. She was crying out for help. I don't think she should ever be back in the free population, but she will always be trapped in her mental heath now anyways.
Hope you’re in a good place now. Thanks for giving a different perspective. Makes sense to me.
Yes. If you know you know. Period. People who don’t know, don’t know. I am not at all shocked that she had a well researched plan.
I also found the various comments "she was having one of her best days" and "she was doing so much better lately" probably come from people with no understanding. I can't tell you how many times I have sucked it up and pretended to be happy for others' sake.
Im a 32 year old mother and I too, have an extensive mental health history. I've been trying different Medications for my bipolar depression, insomnia, adhd and anxiety for 16 years ( also got terrible postpartum anxiety) just got to a stable regimen
My question is, are you saying she is guilty, should be found guilty, and imprisoned or that she should not be?
It's honestly a real question
Just curious
Her poor husband I really hope that he has a huge support group. He lost everything because he unknowingly married a monster. Why didn't she just unalive herself and leave her kids to live full lives with their Dad?
Cause she is a Monster
And only thinks of herself
I always think this in any case where someone kills a bunch of people especially their own family and children then takes their own life. They could just take their own life and spare everyone else. But in this case I believe she never intended to kill herself she only staged an attempted suicide.
@@cheyb1539 exactly
@@cheyb1539 I agree.
“unalive” are you 12?
She knew what she was doing, she tried to cover her tracks poorly. Even if she was struggling with mental health, she was conscious enough to know that she needed an attorney. She knew what the prosecutor was going to look for
I'm from MA...my mother went through something similar in the early 70s and much like this woman all they did was pump her full of meds. In the end she took a newborn me out in nothing but a diaper wandering the streets ( she thought the moon dust from an Apollo landing was going to kill all the children ) until my father found us. She ended up in Metropolitan State ( Met State ) Hospital. Where she was repeatedly attacked by other residents that were also extremely ill. I am blessed that we were found.... We need to do better for women and their babies....My heart breaks for everyone in all of this.
That's very unfortunate. But the medications available now are light-years ahead of what they had in the 70s. It's not a fair comparison.
I think she is guilty in every possible way. I was astounded at how much support she received in the beginning. She planned this whole thing out and SQUEEZED THE LIFE out of ALL of her children. And then made that ridiculous jump from the second story (not a true attempt on her life, in my opinion). Lock her away. RIP those poor innocent babies.
She was only taking 3 medication at that time, all those other meds had been discontinued. So she was not over medicated.
The whole “I stand with Lindsay” mantra going on in the comments of Annie’s first video on this subject were shocking to me. Hopefully those people have changed their minds by now, including Annie.
@@helensieben3182 thankyou for mentioning this!
Truth! @@helensieben3182
I totally agree. If anyone besides her killed those kids, mental illness or not (which let’s face it, anyone who murders children is not mentally well) would have the book thrown at them. Why is it okay for her? I really don’t understand. If the husband was suffering depression and did the same thing, he would be behind bars with no sympathy.
This case is so heartbreaking, my mind has also shifted after hearing all the new details and updates to this case unfortunately. I feel so bad for the father he has lost it all I pray he is doing ok.
Sadly he Will never be ok
He Will just has to go on living without his babies
I think the father dropped the ball more than we know yet. He knew she belonged in a facility for treatment. He was trying to play too many roles.
@@FLMegan
I get that sentiment. But even then, an otherwise loving wife and mother? I think he knew she needed help, but not “Honey I killed the kids” kind of help
Ahhhhhh man, look at the list of those drugs...I was taking zoloft and my doctor kept raising my prescription. For pain he gave me methadone, trazodone, oxycontin, and percocets. I never had thoughts of suicide, but that one day, I was feeling great because I was going to commit suicide. The whole time thinking, I won't have no more pain and become a guardian angel for my kids. That night I took all my pills. When I woke up I said "I guess it wasn't enough." I woke up my sister and told her what I did. Went to the hospital. Those medications are from Satan. You listen to the voice in your head and think it's right. Premeditated or at the moment, thoughts, they are REAL voices. Your NOT IN YOUR RIGHT MIND. I hope she knows God forgives ALL SINS. Praying for peace for the families and friends. SHE WAS NOT IN HER RIGHT MIND BUT THE PILLS MADE IT FEEL RIGHT...
Everyone needs to keep the same energy they had for Chris Watts , as well for this woman! They are no different!!!
I had a hallucination event from a clogged milk duct after having my daughter. Husband found us under the table as I screamed we were being bombed by Russia. I could have hurt my 2 week old baby and thank God we were spared anything more than an ambulance trip to the hospital where I received care. I had no previous or long term thoughts before that day & had no more after that. It was the scariest thing happened to me in regards to my daughter. Bless all those who are innocent & keep them safe.
Omg I didn't know that was even a thing that could happen! Thankfully you're both ok. That's so scary!
I have taken only adhd medication but after I had my second child, taking my medication with that sent my head crazy and I was hallucinating it was horrible and felt SO real. I can fully believe 3 different medications can cause some form of psychosis
Especially when they say "suicidal thoughts and psychosis may occur" as a possible side effect. Like come on...
This happened 6 miles from me. Every time someone brought it up I couldn't talk about this story without breaking down into tears.
This story is so sad. I pray for Patrick daily.
We appear to be close. I understand, I also find myself emotional when conversations arise. Or unintentionally hear while at a restaurant or store checkout. It’s so horrific and so close to home. Only weeks after Anna Walshe’s life was taken, leaving her sons with a lifetime of emotional turmoil😢
🙏🏽💪🏽⚖️🤍💛💜
oh shut it
@@heathledger6396 The facts speak for themselves. The facts are she murdered her children. Didn’t have toxic levels of medication in her system. Was NEVER diagnosed prior to or post with PPD or PPP. That is spun by Kevin Reddington. Shame on him. Sent her husband on a fool’s errand after calculating how long it should take round trip.
@@heathledger6396 you seem really, compassionate. Try to be a little nicer on a post about a mother offing her children.
Ffs, didn't your parents raise you better?
So so sad. I know how you feel. All the cases are sad, but when one happens close to you, it hits different. I’m not far from the Idaho student murders and it’s been so awful.
I had 3 kids in 2 years and 10 months and I suffered with SEVERE postpartum depression and short term psychosis and I don’t believe her story. There were many times I drove home from appts and would have the urge to run my car off a bridge or into a tree, but very quickly you realize it’s not normal and you need to dig deep and snap out of it. She had every opportunity to ask for help that night and instead she tricked her husband into leaving and murdered her own children. Had she done this in the middle of the night after taking ambien I may believe her, but the fact she had been up and seemed “happy” all day really leads me to believe she was happy bc she knew she was about to be free of the overwhelming responsibility.
I agree with this. However, I also wonder why having kids is now framed as an 'overwhelming responsibility'. Women have been raising kids - often in truly deprived circumstances - for milennia, and it's only in the last thirty years that we now see our children as these enormous burdens, for which we need countless gadgets and devices, support groups, prenatal classes, etc. Generally speaking, raising reasonably healthy offspring isn't as catastrophically difficult as it's increasingly made out to be, you know?
@@username.not.known2473hmm I’m not sure about this. I think it has become more difficult, mainly because women (mothers) are expected to take on more and more responsibilities including working full time jobs.
Suicide happens at the happiest moment that’s a fact she tried to get help your POD is not everyone’s you should understand of all people
@@username.not.known2473society no longer has a village
I seen my uncle do weird crap on ambien. He walked in my room one time thinking he was in the club. Talking Tom me asking where everyone was at from the club. This was after midnight. There's tomes where he is boxing in his sleeping and times he is trying to sleep walk out the door and I say thay because that is how he is acting after he takes it and falls asleep for a little but. When he isn't on it, he doesn't do all that. One night he ate a whole cheese cake in one setting and came in the kitchen the next morning and the evidence was there along with his shoes and he thought I was playing a truck on him when he got up to make coffee. Thank God he is at and assisted living and his medicine is more controlled. I tried talking to his doctor and social worker but it was hard because he didn't want me to tell on him and he did whatever it took to manipulate that situation etc. (Until he couldn't).
Back when I had postpartum depression in 1985 it was rarely discussed. I had it with my second child. First I became manic. I woke up a few days before I went into labor and hung a tire swing my husband hadn’t gotten to yet. Then when the house was shiny spotless, I went to bed only to wake up early and take coat lining material and design and sew by hand an entire dress in about 5 hours! I was in a state of euphoria. It’s embarrassing now but I felt amazing. I’d never been manic or had any psychiatric issues before that day. Then I went into labor. At the hospital everyone seemed to be shouting at me and everything looked really large. It was so bizarre. Then when I got home the depression began. I felt angry at my son who was 5 and wouldn’t let him near his new sister. He wanted to hold her but I was so weird and filled with this feeling of flatness. I could feel no joy or reason to live practically. I never told a soul. I just knew it would pass and I was a psych major so I knew a little about PPD. I just rode it out. I feel guilty about how cold I was to my son til this day. I loved him so much and wanted him to feel my love but I just kept feeling angry at him for no reason for about a week or maybe two. I had a 3rd child 2 yrs later, another girl and had no issues at all. I never did any drugs or drank so I just have no explanation for what occurred other than hormones. Crazy hormones. I could say to myself tho’ that I felt flat, dull, miserable and easily filled with anger. Why? What if it was even worse? I would have become psychotic and then what? Well Thank God that never happened but I would have sought help not plotted my kids demise.
She looked up, “Can you treat a sociopath?” It seems that she may have been a cold person who just found no real joy in life with kids so she just thought she’d get rid of the kids and move on with her life. Sometimes antidepressants give sociopaths the courage to act on their desires. She hang jumped, THAT SAYS IT ALL! She used her knowledge of PPD ( nurse) to get rid of the kids in my opinion. It’s too premeditated. She didn’t do it when alone. She wanted him there so someone would be there when she hang jumped out the window so she wouldn’t lay there too long! I guess she miscalculated the fall! I think she’s a monster.
I was a post partum nurse and lactation consultant from 2005 - 2020, dealing with afterbirth moms and babies only during their hospital stay which was max a 2-3 day stay and there was little to NO education given to RNs on this subject. Therefore a labor and delivery nurse would have even less education on this EXTREMELY complex subject.
I dealt with ppd with my first child. And with the added difficulty of being 18 yrs old and in an abusive relationship. There wasn’t the awareness then that there is now and I didn’t know why I was feeling so disconnected until much later. It felt as though I was living someone else’s life. I had thoughts of suicide and I specifically remember wanting to drive head on into oncoming traffic on a couple of occasions and once being pulled over for erratic driving and the cop giving me just a warning. Thankfully all 3 of my children are alive and well today, but I will always harbor the guilt of my thoughts and actions then. Women need more support after childbirth. There needs to be affordable or even free help available. Something more than pills and talk therapy.
She didn’t wake up and ask “where are my children? Are my children okay?” She woke up and asked “do I need an attorney?” this was premeditated cold blooded murder!
My thoughts exactly!! 🙌🏽
I agree 💯
That is a fair point. But then again, that's just an opinion.
She may have asked. As it was worded, “one of the first thingS (emphasizing that S), she asked.” So therefore, we don’t know if it was exactly the FIRST thing she asked, or was it asked after she asked a couple other questions?
How do you know what she said or what was asked prior to her asking if she needed a lawyer? The prosecutor said shortly after she “woke up.” Why the hell was she being questioned by LE while intubated?
I believed in the postpartum depression right up until the point where she sent her husband to go get takeout.
She was lucid enough to ask for a menu and lucid enough to place an order.
I believe that these murders were premeditated.
Same here, I had PPD and as someone who hates opening about my feelings I knew that this was serious and made sure to have a support system around me until I felt better.
I am taking no side..but wondering if the mental illness..depression..psychosis with so much medicine allows for to premeditate as another sign of the illness unlike other crimes with no illness again..not taking up for her..just asking if the illness "allows " for premeditation??? Thanks
Premeditation does not mean that it isn’t PPD. One does not discount the other.
@@thecarpenterswife881 She could have PPD but be criminally responsible because she knew perfectly well what she was doing.
Hubby had started working from home. She devises a plan for him to leave the house, in the form of takeout food, with some time added on by asking for something from the drugstore. Sounds pretty lucid.
I’m so sickened hearing she SLID DOWN the side of the house. That truly solidifies my feeling that this was cold blooded murder.
Annie, you need to cover the case of Lauren Dickason. A South African woman who fought hard to have 3 children via IVF. She moved to New Zealand with her husband and children and murdered all 3 of her children just a few weeks after arriving here to start their new life. It was beyond tragic 😥 Your coverage would be both compassionate and informative.
This case is somewhat local to me. This was premeditated and she absolutely should be held accountable the same way any other murderer would be.
I’m also local to this and I agree. I do say I toggle back and forth at times
I agree
Postpartum is no joke! Mine got worse each time after each baby. I have five kids. I sway back and forth on this too. I did have some very very dark thoughts tho. Glad I was never in her boat. I could have been tho, very easily!
@doyourhomework.6416 we can't blame all these things on PP. The husband should've had the food and medication delivered but clearly she wanted him gone for am hour... sus.
I don't know... if she didn't want her kids, she could've just left. So many men do...
Trial or not she will suffer a long painful life with what she has done to her innocent kids! She knew what she was doing with or without severe depression
For someone with a psychotic break her self inflicted wounds still show quite a bit of desire to live. Shallow wounds and hanging out of the window honestly sounds like a self preservation thing which I imagine would've been a lot harder to do if it was actually a psychotic break
Mrs. Elise you are one hell of a hard worker!!! You seem to have more content than others. I am not saying they work less. But you seem to work very hard in what you do. I appreciate that and wish their were more people like you. You are doing an AWESOME JOB!!!
If she loved her kids like she is claiming, she wouldn’t be fighting and claiming innocence. She’s a monster and knew what she was doing.
I kinda feel the same if I was faced with the reality that I did this to my kids I would just be asking to be sent to a psychiatric facility for the same amount of time they want to lock me up, not total freedom.
If you were on the jury, you would feel confident saying she was in her right mind and knew exactly what she was doing? Beyond a reasonable doubt is a high bar.
Post pardom isn’t that black and white though.
Exactly. It was plotted and planned and because she is a rich white lady all these people including Annie try to make her out to be this poor innocent woman with mental illness with She is nothing but a monster
Insanity defense is for cases like this one
She had it planned, she deserves to be held accountable. It's so sad, especially for the father left to mourn.
And she researched stuff before she did it.
The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is why wouldn't she blame a third party or a stranger? If her intention was to never actually end her own life?
This is where o struggle yes planned but by who? When she wasn’t in HER right mind ? This is the part that is so hard unless we could be in their head? I can’t even imagine what it feels to not feel like you?
I agree with you 100 💯 she’s a nurse she knows what that medication will do to her & she used it as an excuse! She killed here children plain and simple
Take note that people having a psychotic break can plan things whilst not in their right mind. It should come down to how her sense of right and wrong was impaired during (during! Not after) the commission of the murders.
Interesting, I have been on the same medication list minus the rem one .. this is wild ! I went completely insane and ran away bc I was afraid I would hurt someone and I wouldn’t leave my house for 3 months until I detoxed myself off all the meds and I struggled so bad … this is a very complicated case
The word because has 7 letters not 2. r u lazy?
Happy you made it through! I was shocked and the list of medications and certainly can see what that may have done to her.
This case is absolutely horrific all around, and I think premeditation may have existed BECAUSE of her mental state and massive medication list.
I honestly don't know how the husband could say he has forgiven her. I know postpartum depression and psychosis are real, I suffered from depression, but still. I could not forgive my partner if he killed my precious boy.
He wrote that pretty quickly, I’m betting he’s since changed his mind
That's the sunk-cost fallacy in action! He's already lost his children and doesn't want to lose his wife too.
He’s a simp
He forgave her so he could move on in life and try and have peace, that is probably the hardest thing to do, poor guy
You forgive someone for yourself so you can find peace and let go of the anger and resentment. I am curious if he is still married to her.
The fact that she dangled from the window and slid down rather than jumping from the window as originally reported plus the superficial cuts and research changed how i feel. She had the clarity to know she would need him gone for a good chunk of time, choose a place to order from based on the needed time, made her hearing a voice say this was her last chance bullshit bc she created this ""chance". He didnt just leave for a bit and offer an opportunity...she MADE the opportunity happen! I completely understand that PP is real but psych is about "try this med and see how it does" its not one med fits all. And the meds tried are definitely a normal way to start depression and anxiety treatment-speaking from both personal experience and the experience of many friends.Not to mention her very first question was self-preservation!! Not "are my kids ok" or even, knowing what shed done "how is Patrick?" Whether its a psychiatric facility or prison, she needs locked up for life!! (In MY opinion...which doesnt really mean much lol)
That’s the prosecutions side NOT the facts, why choose to be paralyzed ? That fall was dangerous to her either way
Agree
@@nikkimclay5474maybe a pity party
Patrick knows LIndsey better than anyone and how does he ask us to respond to her? She is a mentally ill woman who is a victim of Big Pharma. She is not an evil monster. A person described as a "wonderful mother" by all who knew her does not suddenlty turn around and kill her children and inflict permanent damage on herself..... Please use some critical thought and don't buy into what Big Pharma or anyone else promotes....
The glaring question mark for me is no one seems to be holding her doctors accountable as well…
Thissssssssssssss. I totally agree.
Exactly! ☝️ 💯
Her doctors didn't kill her kids. Why should they be held accountable? She was getting a lot better care than most people with mental health issues. Doctors aren't omnipotent. I get tired of people thinking there is a magic cure for depression or anxiety. Lindsay was very lucky to have the care she had.
I’m struggling with this case. Part of me feels she is suffering from mental health in a sociopathic way, rather than post pardom. The other part of me feels empathy for that struggle of the mind. In the end, what happened is horrific and she should be held accountable. I think in a psychiatric hospital though.
well yea but plenty of murderers are sociopaths and they are all in jail. she is hiding behind this PPS BS
Poor, poor Patrick. I hope he finds peace and happiness in his life;I don’t know how you even begin to move on after something like this. 🙏
Time, it's the only thing you can count on in life besides change. Time will make it less of a memory and it may all fade and then just be recall at some point, hopefully he will get to that pint where he actually has to remember.
Yes, I feel for him so much. He lost everything 😢
He forgave her already for what she did; speaks volumes on what type of man he is! I truly hope he can recover from the trauma.
Amen. May These babies Rest In Peace, God Bless.🙏🏼
I experienced psychosis and heard a voice say “keel the kids”. I was on the phone with my sis and it came out the blue. I isolated myself from them and called 911. I could see blood on my hands and envision them gone. The worst stuff I’ve ever experienced. I knew it was real but now I have a new outlook on it
@ banks 22 . We’re you on medication. I was taking mirtazipine when suddenly I had such and awful tought. I came home and read the fine print. My medication was causing me to have awful toughts . I went straight to the phycatrist no appointment and told him . Than it became a nightmare mare to stop .
I’m so sorry that happened to you and I’m grateful you got help quickly!
@@sydney2141 thank you. I know I was not going to do those things. But just the thought omfg No appointment hey doctor read the leaflet from the pharmacist. I told him it’s happening and it’s damn scary. I knew it was the medication 💊.
My opinion of this, is she's guilty!!! Yes, since she can't walk and needs care, she should be in a mental hospital for life!!!
Another thing is, with all of those medications, common sense says you should be on no more than 2 meds at a time!!! There no way she was talking 10 different meds!!! The Dr.s know this too, because you would not be able to function normally!!!
There just evidence that she knew what she was doing, doing searches online about different things and people knew she was acting normal. I think life got too much for her with 3 kids, she's guilty!!!
I had a client with severe ppd and she was sent home from hospital on 13 meds. I went to home for our apt and she was semi conscious on couch in the dark and the baby was in a bouncy seat absolutely filthy and smelling indescribably bad. Dcf had to get involved and family took the kids til mom could get stable . In this case it was severe neglect. But it was all those meds that made her 10x worse than when she asked for help and went inpatient!
I've been waiting for an update on this case. Thank you.❤
The psychosis thing doesn't fly because she absolutely understood what she was doing as she had the cognitive ability to look up how long the trip to the restaurant and pharmacy would take her husband. Now, was she mentally ill although she knew what she was doing? Absolutely. But being mentally ill doesn't mean you should get away with murder.
My baby was two weeks old when this happened, I was devastated because he scratched his own face and I felt so guilty…. This is incomprehensible
One of my kids has the same name as one of these children. I can't even listen without sobbing
So, so disheartening.
Both of y'all have such blessed babies!
It takes a village! I only wish these precious babies, AND their mother, had such a village to lean on!
We, as women, should be responsible enough to hold each other up!!!
If she woke up and wrote “do i need an attorney”, she is fully aware of what she did!
Well she also woke up to an officer standing there and in a hospital. I’m not saying she is innocent by any means but waking up out of a coma to an officer and in a hospital would probably make anyone think “what did I do?” Especially her since she was having these horrible homicidal and suicidal thoughts
Yeah, no coma@@lovabledork23
@@lovabledork23I agree. If I woke up & an officer were there, and I was clearly being monitored. I’d be wondering wtf happened. Though it’s no excuse & these poor poor babies 😭
She was in ICU, there were no cops inside her room...
@@lovabledork23 no where does it say that she “woke up to an officer”. It says she wrote on a whiteboard to the hospital asking if she needed an attorney. An an RN that works in the ER and ICU it’s not typical for officers to be in a room with a patient. They are outside of the room on guard unless the patient is combative or they need a reason to be in the room. She was paralyzed and sedated. No reason to be in there. Now if they went into question her then maybe but it still wouldn’t be my first thought if I’m waking up with wires all over me, hospitalized, intubated, and not knowing what the hell just happened. Make it make sense! Who does that?
First of all what doctor prescribed all of those medications to someone all at once ?! That doctor needs to be in prison. SMH
She was not on all 12 at the same time! At time of the incident she was on 4 medications. That was revealed at the arraignment and is in the charging documents.
@@AM_0505 but did she at one time or another start and stop all those meds during an 8 month period, or any combination of meds within that time frame? IMO (from personal experience) that's too many meds to keep track of all the different side effects.
I've been waiting for updates from this case!
Him screaming “My buddy” absolutely destroys me
I fully believe it was premeditated, there's just too much pointing that way. Absolutely breaks my heart, rest in peace babies❤🩹
From the first day, definitely premeditated., especially every new bit if evidence. No way she snapped at the precise time she planned for her husband to be running errands she asked him to and knowing how long she had. Now, the phone calls and hearing the wrist slitting blood had already stopped and sliding down the house.
Possibly, but WHY? Similar to Chris Watt's case, no answers.
Sometimes there isn't a why. Or anything that anyone but the murderer would understand.@@usagi_t
My thoughts are that her marriage and family life weren't all that they appeared to be. I feel like that pushed her over the edge, but that she was already sick. Not with any postpartum psychosis though. I just don't buy that.
I really hope that she doesn't get off. People don't seem to understand. If they find her not guilty, she walks. I highly doubt that she will go free. If she does, it's because her defense IS very good. They could get women on the jury to buy into the PPD. Humanity is in the toilet today. I don't have kids or like kids, but you can't just get rid of 2/3rd of your family when having a bad day. I hit my neighbor, and didn't mean to (there were many extenuating circumstances that lead up to it), but I did. My attorney explained that even though I had a good case for self-defense, in a physical crime like that, it's really hard to get a non guilty. All the DA will say is "she did it - end of story." My defense attorney was going to get into my mental health issues if it went to trial, but I ended up taking a plea deal.
@@usagi_tthe Chris Watts case has answers! He was a selfish sob who wanted freedom and a new life with his fresh bit of skirt.
He didn’t need to do what he did, but that is the reason.
I could never. My children are my world. I suffered miscarriages, I literally begged and prayed to God for my kids. Idk how some women do this. 😢
I'm happy for you that you were able to have healthy children, they make life magical. I had fertility issues for years, and I had an ectopic pregnancy rupture four years ago so I thought that I'd never have children. Luckily, my son was born in July of this year and he is the most amazing baby and being his Mom has been the most fulfilling experience of my life. My partner and I feel lucky every single day that we get to spend loving our little guy. I could never hurt a hair on his head I just can't comprehend how anyone could harm their child. Best wishes for a happy healthy life to you and your family!
My wife is the sweetest most loving lady and mother I’ve ever seen she would never hurt anyone especially our children but after she had our /bc she got a major case of ppd and she was in and out of psychosis for months and one day I came home and found her and my kids sitting in her car with the garage door closed and the car running. She had planned on dying or carbon monoxide poisoning. I was able to catch it in time and get all of them out of there. She was sent to a institution and got the help she needed. Just like with this lady there were days we thought everything was better and she was fine but she was silently suffering. These things happen. This poor lady will live with what she did but doesn’t need to be prosecuted she’s not a cold blooded murderer she’s a victim as well.
I suffered and still suffer infertility. It took me over two years to get pregnant with my daughter. I thought I would be the happiest mom in the world to finally get my baby after so much heartache. I wasn't. I had severe PPD, I had the intrusive, awful thoughts...I didn't act on them, but everyone is different and sometimes it is so severe that yes, this does happen. When your brain isn't working properly, you are completely out of control, out of character. Those who have never experienced PPD won't understand, and be happy you don't, because it is dark, and it is scary.
I don't understand it either. But if she really was suffering from PPD or PPP I think we need to be careful on the judgment. It sounds like an absolutely awful thing to go through, and I'm glad I didn't experience it beyond "baby blues".
Women need to feel comfortable talking about and seeking help for PPD. If they understand it's normal, maybe they'll seek help before it gets worse. Before, it leads to something like this.
@@samanthabennison8942 👏 I love that you openly speak about your experience. All moms need to know that it's common to have PPD, they can get help for it and they have zero reason to feel guilty about it.
Definitely broke! Just the way she did it was so odd... Still hurts my heart. May those 3 sweet babies rest in peace. May her husband find peace 🕊️🕊️🕊️
I fully believe she was “having one of her best days” because she knew what she had planned & she was ready to get it done. She specifically sent her husband to get meds that she knew the pharmacy didn’t have! Specifically asked him to go to a restaurant far enough away that she’d have enough time to do this.
Your last video really saved me postpartum! I had no idea what PPD looked like before I watched that video…. I had a baby soon after and knew immediately when my PPD kicked in! I had an appointment set up for 2 weeks PP for my psychiatrist and therapist, and was able to clearly communicate my symptoms and that is because of YOU Annie! Thank you thank you thank you! I know I would’ve beat myself up, and probably not told anyone how I was feeling because I was so ashamed. Bonding has still been hard but being on meds has definitely lifted that PPD fog! I’m sure my baby would thank you too, if he could talk lol!
Good vibes & prayers your way … mamas are hero’s!
Many blessing sweetheart ❤
❤
❤
Prayers
This one really is painful for me to think about. I recently had a dear friend take her life. She did everything right in trying to deal with her depression. She was so honest about her feelings. She voluntarily went through a 30 day inpatient program but unfortunately came home with a plethora of prescription medication. This girl fought so hard but lost the battle. I don’t think many people have enough compassion for this kind of depression.
Some of these comments I just don’t understand. Obviously she needs to be punished and can’t live in normal society but do people honestly think she’s just a killer ? Obviously her mind was extremely taken over by pp psychosis or extreme depression. It’s sad. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy. The whole thing is a nightmare.
Serious question what’s the difference between Clancy and Doerman or Vallow? What makes her a “better” family annihilator? The Clancy children suffered a horrific death at her hands. Strangulation is an extremely painful process and it was not quick. As well if things were that bad do u honestly think the husband wld have left her alone w/or w/out the kids? I’m from SS Mass and my husband is a Lt firefighter on 20+ yrs the men and women who were at the scene will never unsee what unfolded at that house. I understand mental health professionally and personal experience I am empathetic, but she clearly planned this by her own actions and deserves to be held accountable and go to prison for her crimes.
@SassyPants..obviously the differences are PPD, PPP and all the medication she was taking as prescribed.
@@Sassy_Pants.. Lori wasn’t actively trying to get help and didn’t just have a baby. Lori was a part of a cult.
@@ArmyWife8697 I understand that, as well the meds. However her own drs cleared her of both prior to. As well she had be titrated off certain meds before starting new treatments for her depression and anxiety. The lab work is the key to that, what and how much of was actually in her system and it isn’t what her lawyer is saying. Her lawyer is good w/ muddling the waters of 100% Reddington is reading this chat.
(PS happy Veterans Day my husband is also a vet)
This is an incredibly sad story, even if she planned it, it doesn't mean she was in sound mind, she planned it because she was sick 😢
Wrong. By that dumbass logic, every single person who commits mass murder or multiple murders is also “sick”. You don’t purposely send your husband away, if you’re in a psychotic break. You’d do it regardless of him being there or not, as a person in such a state cannot differentiate between right and wrong. The fact that she’s a woman is the only reason y’all are so willing to pat her on the back and hug her and say sorry to her for the fact that she suffocated the life out of her children. Gtfoh. You sound sick 😂😊
Weird how you so readily defend a woman who brutally murders her children
I just feel so incredibly sad for Patrick! How could your partner in life, the person you made these babies with turn around and kill them?! He seems like a good man mourning his children and just trying to stand by his wife.
He needs to let her go. No way is she going to get off. Makes me sick him raising money for her legal defense.
The sad thing is, I was at one time on all the meds Lindsay was on. I told my Doc at the time that the meds I was on were keeping me wide awake so he would prescribe me something to help me sleep. He would not try and figure a different med that would help. At one time I was on 10 different things. It was not good.
Ok see but you were on 10 at once and didn’t kill anyone right? Not saying you may not have felt crazy but like you still knew right from wrong right?
@kimibear448 I am not on Lindays side at all. All I am saying is depending on what meds, the amount and if they should or shouldn't be mixed may have continued to her killing her babies. There is no excuse for killing anyone let alone a child. With the amount of meds I was on, I never thought of killing my babies, the thought was always about killing myself. When you are in a manic state you don't think about what's right and wrong.
Almost all those meds make you sleepy. Maybe the Prozac wouldn't . I have also taken them all (not at once.. someone is lying if they say they were prescribed all.of them at one time. You legally cannot prescribe all of these, as several are narcotics. No Doctor even semi-right mine would prescribe Xanax and ambien together and definitely not Ambien Xanax Zoloft freaking Valium and Seroquel together. You. You wouldn't even be able to lift your pinky finger much less strangle a child. I hate when people ignorantly blame medication for stuff like that I have a recovering drug addict and I didn't even feel like doing that on hard drugs so... This is why there is such a stigma with taking mental health meds. I slept and ate on most of those
At the time of the murders she was only on three medications.
Regardless of the outcomes of this, I think we should all remember how quickly, how graciously women wrapped their hearts around this situation. So many women, people, were brave enough to tell their own stories. We may never know how Lindsey really felt or if she planned this, but I think we do all know more now. We know we are not or were not alone. Anyone who was brave enough to share their story, i am so proud of you and i thank you for being a voice for others 💛
Best comment so far!
This is an excellent point!
Awe I love this message. The silver lining. Using these tragedies to tell our stories so good can come of the future. That is why these things happen. They suck, but we must all grow from it and help each other.
Thank you for saying this. Reading thru the comments it caught be off guard but it means alot, something maybe I didn't know I needed to hear.
I was extremely grateful for Annie’s video about her personal experience. It can truly happen to anyone, and we need to know we aren’t alone.
You can still plan things if you're in active psychosis. I'm not sure why people think one cancels out the other. Until people start claiming she was harming her neonatal patients, I think she had a mental break and that the system failed her.
One thing I believe is if she searched “can you treat a sociopath” that really shows someone who is dissociative but it also shows that she was worried about it, and concerned, which leads me to believe that she felt she was “breaking” but that she was no a sociopath. A sociopath would not care if they could receive treatment or not most likely. And it seems like she was begging for treatment and trying to do the right thing. However, I don’t know this case so we’ll, I am only going off what’s being read during the trial in this video. Just a first impression with that google search.
also, a true sociopath doesn't think anything is wrong with them, therefore wouldn't be looking it up. I think she was trying to figure out why she felt so numb and detached, which I believe was due to her mental illness and/or side effects of the meds she was on or withdrawing from.
Here’s my issue they had money why not hire someone to take care of the children and help out 24/7??
Because you other Mama's would have judged her and she herself would HATE to seem lesser then. Ya'll scare me!
Money is not always the point in life. Her husband was at home
@@ir9567🙄
@@ir9567 no I’m not judging I’m saying if someone else was home then maybe it wouldn’t have happened but either way she killed her children NOT ME!!
@@Kimberly-gi2jj mmm it’s not however she killed her children so there’s no reason nor excuse to do so.
I think she did it on purpose and was trying to use mental health as an excuse. I did from the start and couldn’t fathom people actually giving her some sort of ‘pass’. Despicable woman. I hope the dad is able to get all the help he needs to live as happy life as possible moving forward, people gave VERY generously to the go fund me which should help in him doing so. I do hope he doesn’t stick by the wife though. Very sad story when anyone takes out their children 😢
Me too!
Same with me! Even Annie seemed to be giving her a pass and I was shocked because it was so obvious this was planned
@@mandyleeann2527yeah I didn’t agree with her on the first video at all! I’m no stranger to clinical depression after having children so have somewhat of an insight into deteriorating mental health and no way would I have ever dreamt of hurting my children, myself maybe but not them. If you’re in the throes of bad mental health you DO NOT have the foresight to do all the things she did before and after she murdered them 😢
Same. People were projecting on her. She looked miserable. Already a size 0 after 3 kids..? Relax! Always smiling with gorgeous photos? Sooooo exceeedingly nice? Ew it stunk.
Agreement
When it comes to true crime videos, the voice of the person & the speed of their speech (I can’t listen to people who speak verrry slowly & drag out their words) is a biggie for me… your content is perfect on both parts! 👌🏼
I dont know how she can sit there so calmly and not break down
I bet she didn’t count on being paralyzed after jumping. Those poor kids. Just horrifying! Thank you to Annie Elise and her researchers for the videos she puts out. ❤
I feel the same thing. I believe in my heart that this was planned. Once all of the facts are brought out, it's gonna get intense. I can not shake this feeling in my gut that this is a sinister case.
@jenniferhastings5330 hearing that there was evidence she didn't jump, but hung and slid down or whatever is telling to me that she didn't really want to die. I can see things from the opinion you have. I csn also relate to many other opinions. This one is tough.
@@jenniferhastings5330 Agreed! Very sinister indeed.
This case is tough. I believe she knew what she was doing but yet evidence shows otherwise. I believe she is suicidal only because she became aware of what she did. Maybe she was in shock at first and that's why she didn't show any emotions. But yet she was in the right mind to ask about a lawyer which gives the idea she knew what she did. Tough.
@@KitKatB83 Absolutely! I don’t believe she wanted to die either.
Cora was the sweetest girl 🤍 I know she is up in heaven making new friends. It was a true honor teaching her when I had.
You were Cora’s teacher?
@@KeekoLane I wasn’t her school teacher but one of her extracurricular teachers!
This is just an unbelievable case!!! Like I said in my post, she's guilty!!!
Sorry for your loss. 💐
when I heard the names Cora & Dawson, I thought “oh, she loved the movie Titanic.”
Sounds like they were bred / born into a house of love. Things change & we don’t know what we don’t know. Such a tragedy.
🙏
Thank you for the update, I was thinking about this case and recently wondering what was going on.
Thank you Annie for the update , this case breaks my heart . I pray for the family and those sweet babies I hope they’re all together in heaven watching over their beloved .
The fact that she pleaded “ not guilty “ makes me really angry if it was me I would want to plead guilty and wouldn’t care to be locked up for life as my life would be nothing without my kids anyway…
Advised to for insanity plea
Why would she plead guilty? She's going for insanity. Aka not saying she didn't do it.
All I know is the children should've been protected and she should remain away from society either in mental health facility or prison whatever is decided bc she is dangerous. I can't even fathom what that father is going through. I would die if all my kids were killed.
You think your kids are protected with their mother till they aren’t ….
How dangerous is a paraplegic?
And who’s responsibility was it to ‘protect the children’ in this case? Doctors knew what treatment she was receiving and what meds she was on and she was allowed to go home and be a sole carer for those kids.
Her illness was dangerous not her
With taking all those medications anybody can commit a crime 😢I’m very sorry 😞 about dad and the three babies 😢
No one forced them down her, though! She wasn't in a dang mental hospital. Even in that, you can easily cheek meds. Or even refuse. Women need to take control of their own healthcare. No one else in her life apparently tried.
She was on an INSANE amount of medication. I'm severely mentally ill and I'm on 4 meds which is already a lot. Psych meds are no joke and they're over prescribed, the doctor who wrote those scripts should be sued for malpractice
Her asking if she needs a attorney first is chilling
thats what gets me the most. then that she checked how long her husband would be gone and talked to him during the incident 🤯🤯🤯
The lawyer said, "one of the first questions she asked...."
Right?! She absolutely knew what she had done. My god…her poor husband. Basically now…he has nothing. And for WHAT?! Will be interesting to see how this all plays out. 🤦🏻♀️🤯😢
@rebekahjimenez2808
Yeah I caught that too, feels like the prosecutions really twisting details here.
Like yeah if you wake up in a hospital realize you've killed your kids and are now being questioned I'd imagine one of the first questions WOULD be if you need an attorney.
It's like when they use you being silent against you in court because you invoked your 5th amendment rights.
@@lynnking4451 jsut cause you are aware you did something wrong dose not mean you actully meant to do it. The fact the husband knew she was sick and left he kids with her is chilling she was asking for help and on medications yet he left her alone tells me a lot obout him not listing to her and her asking for help
I feel so bad for the children but my heart really goes out to her husband- so many women don't have support but she did and I'm sure he felt like he was doing everything he could for her. Just Terrible
Husband shouldn't have left his mentally ill wife alone with the children.. what are you talking about??
@ryansack5198 not all kids are hurt by that type of mom
@@ryansack5198 A lot of people suffer from mental illness & don’t go on to commit acts of violence. I’m sure he never in his wildest dreams thought this happening was ever even within the realm of possibilities. It sounds like at the very most he thought she could potentially be a danger to herself, but probably never imagined that she would attempt to take her own life with children present, I’m sure he never in 1 million years thought she would harm their babies. Typically someone has to be extremely ill for their loved ones to consider them being dangerous.
The thing that gets me is who takes 12/13 different antipsychotic medications I’m surprised that she even took them all.My sister used to be on valium for bipolar but she never used to take it because she said it turned into a zombie.
this is horrible case and those meds she was in are a cocktail for a disaster the doctor needs to be reviewed by the med board so sad prayers for the family ❤
She wasn't on a cocktail. She trialed and was only at the time on 3 big standard ones despite the fact she was shopping for a diagnosis and did not have one, other than sociopathy
I think the mental health issue is irrelevant, she needs to be held accountable either way.
Yep!!! at the end of any day, 3 children are gone and that won’t change, so mentally ILL or postpartum she needs to be never let out!!!😢😢
Exactly
Exactly ! She had every opportunity to let her husband know she was thinking crazy stuff! Especially when he called ! And why is that , when someone does something it’s mental issues, why does having mental issues automatically causes someone to commit murder ! That’s doesn’t make sense
As the mother of a toddler expecting another baby, cases like these hit so hard. I love my little girl so much that sometimes I have to pull away from her because the thought of something bad ever happening to her is just so devastating. What’s really tragic in the cases where mothers have killed children in a state of actual psychosis is that so many of them (like Yates) believed in the moment that they had to do what they were doing to save their children from something. If they had felt detached, the children wouldn’t have been harmed, but instead they just loved them too much while also being under the control of this hideous illness. The proof is in how they react later
I felt about my first child, my son the way you do. The love was so strong. And I wondered how I could manage to love two that way. Things will change but in a good way. We have the ability to love more than one. I would just suggest to involve your daughter in helping and setting some time aside each day for just you and her also. And naptime for everybody is s a good thing. That means you too mom. Rest is important.
I’m sorry not to offend you but I think you should seek help as well , no one wants to “pull away “ from their child bcuz you love her too much . Just like how you say about Yakes , you re pulling away as well … I suggest you get help before it’s get bad
As a mom of 3 you will unconditionally love every single one of your kids , no matter how many you have but I can also say As a mother I’ve never wanted to pull away from my child cause I loved them to much …. I struggled with postpartum depression and anxiety and I never wanted to harm my kids and I never had thoughts of harming them , it just made me numb and then I’d have moments where I would scream and be so angry also I had no will to live or take care of myself and I got help . I would suggest you get help and ask about what’s going on with you just because you referred to your love for your child as the love a mother had to murder her children. I’m not being rude or mean just sometimes you need people to encourage you and to let you know it’s okay to seek help for things you may struggle with …. I feel like most women don’t seek help in fear they’ll take their kids and I can tell you they will not take them bec you have something mentally going on .
I had my boys seven years apart. While pregnant with my youngest, he is 15 now, I was very worried and scared that I would not be able to love him the way I did my first son. Would I bond with him and be as close with him as I was with my oldest? While pregnant I had already felt like I had failed my baby for having those thoughts. How could my heart hold anymore more love for another child? But believe me, the day he was born it was like I was magically given a second heart or that mine had doubled in size. It's amazing how moms can love two or more children equally after months of fears of how they will manage it.
Also, I do not believe that a parent can love their children too much to the point the have to 'pull away.' Maybe talking with someone will help you with some of your thoughts and feelings. I'm not trying to be rude, mean or disrespectful. Talking with someone helped me while I had worries and fears when I was pregnant. Us momas need some help at times, too. And it is 100% ok to ask for help with any and everything, it doesn't make you weak or a bad mom. Instead it shows the strength you have to want the best for you so you can give your children the very best. I'm really sorry for the long reply! I didn't intend to write more than just a couple sentences for support. 🤗 🫶🏼
Edit: fixed spelling and grammar errors.
The only solution is to slow the baby train, because these illnesses are being caused by US - our overwhelming pollution. Whether the mother thought she was being protective or not, she still did it. When I hit my neighbor in front of police, court sure didn't care about the reasons (there were good reasons behind it, believe me, and I had no criminal record in 42 years of life. They didn't care.).
The only people defending her are other mothers who are afraid this could happen to them. I really feel like it's more being overwhelmed than it is any psychosis. I've been in psychosis many times, and it doesn't work like that. Do what I did and don't have kids if you feel you're not in the right position to do so. It is increasingly difficult to raise kids. You WILL go down for it if you do something like this. People can't just be let off. If she is, she'll have more kids or at least try to. Mark my words.
This is heartbreaking. Sure there was searches done that would suggest this was premeditated. However, the sheer amount of medications she was on, no one, & I mean no one would be "in their right mind." The doctors prescribing all those meds & combo of meds should be held accountable if anyone!!! This is tragic. May the family find peace and comfort through this unbelievable nightmare.
@brandipeach. She was on 3 meds when she committed the crime. That’s not an uncommon script.
@lm7092 Ty. I do understand that may have been what her most recent prescriptions were at the time of this horrific event, only 3 meds but in the arrangement video (or it may have possibly been more recent hearing regarding her continuing to be hospitalized versus imprisoned, I forget which) A toxicology report was read and she certainly had more than just 3 medications in her system, whether it was therapeutic levels or trace amounts, it was more than just 3. That's what I was basing my comment off of.
I'm not defending her nor her actions. Because there are so many things that suggest she was cold, calculated, & this was premeditated. But the empathetic side of me understands mental health issues, medications given to treat mental illnesses, & their potential side effects especially when several are combined or not taken as prescribed. With that being said, those babies deserve justice but she deserves treatment not imprisonment in my opinion. She already has to live the rest of her life alone, paralyzed potentially, and live with the guilt of her actions, which would be a miserable life to live, as it should be.
I also suffered from postpartum depression. I had no idea what it was (1993). I didn’t share my feelings except with my husband. He was very supportive but overly confused too. I did know that to walk away from my son was the right thing to do. My point is, she had a choice. She could have walked out the front door. She didn’t have to call anyone, just leave. I do agree with those that say prison because it does dissipate over time. (The postpartum) Her depression now, imho, is due to what she did. How could any mother want to live after? Heartbreaking.
Mental health, especially depression & psychosis is very complicated. Sometimes medication makes it worst. Lindsay Clancy gave the outward appearance of being a stable mother. I have read or heard too many accounts of people ending their lives after seeming happy and content. When their diaries are discovered, the true turmoil comes to light.
Yes and the meds don’t work right away…and sometimes they are not even working at all, and as you said, they can make a depressed person worse, psychotic or have other adverse reactions. I know we need more light on mental health, but meds aren’t always the right thing for all depression. They certainly are not the be all end all. It’s a very intricate process to get relief for the depressed person, and sometimes they never ever get relief. I have had PPD and still have episodes. And I’m 65 now. So it has carried over after having kids. I’m very blessed that I don’t get psychotic and my meds do work. But I’ve had to have therapy, and spiritual help along with that to learn new coping skills from childhood PTSD.
I don’t think she needs prison, but to be held in a psychiatric institution for her sentence. But I’m waiting to hear more facts I guess.
Well, then, women shouldn't be having kids... They shouldn't be regardless, I believe, because the rising pollution levels from overpopulation lead directly to the hormonal imbalances that cause serious behavioral issues. It's to the point now that humankind is turning on itself.
Anyway, I don't think it is PPD. There is evidence that she was messed up long before having kids. Trust me, I've been in the mental hospital three times, I've been in jail. I just got off of probation for assault in a case that was extremely unfair. I know what it's like to be mistreated by and targeted by the "justice system." In my case, though, I didn't take anyone's life. I also took pretty extreme steps to not procreate so I wouldn't drag innocent beings into it. I don't feel the sympathy. I don't.
@@rhondadavis1483 severe depression is terrifying. I’ve had episodes that come on suddenly and intensely, the despair is physically overwhelming. It doesn’t make me feel like harming anyone else but you do feel there is no way out but to be oblivious, yes to no longer exist to feel the excruciating pain. This woman is not evil she was desperate. I think she is now suffering unbearably and has withdrawn into an empty shell. She will never want to experience that anguish again.
One of the known side effects of many antidepressants is worsening depression and suicidal ideation. Maybe if you are already having SI when it gets prescribed to you it’s hard to tell if the rx is making the SI worse? Idk. So sad all around…
@@MoiAussie1 I agree 💯 I hate it when it happens to me. What ppl don’t understand is it isn’t necessarily circumstances that bring on the depression. Everything can be right in my world, and subtly depression sneaks in. Very subtly and then my husband may notice I’ve withdrawn, physically hurt all over, don’t want to do anything. Cleaning stops or goes to bare minimum. Hygiene isn’t like it should be. Ppl just dont understand unless they’ve gone through it. 😣😢😭
I'm in Australia and it's the exact same here with mental health issues, you go to a doctor for help and they just pump you full of pills before you have even spoken to a psychiatrist/psychologist leaving you feeling like a drugged out zombie but still with the same mental health issues you had to begin with, so much more needs to be done for mental health issues and illnesses 😔
Most doctors training is funded by the pharmaceutical companies so they're essentially salesmen for the drugs they prescribe. (Doctors do know a lot about how the human body works, so people tend to trust them. That same trust is exploited when they then throw toxic pills at people.)
I do think with her taking 3 different types of medication it could have caused some form of psychosis. Even my adhd medication can make me feel disconnected from my kids, let alone stronger meds and more of them! Mixed with postnatal hormones… not a good concoction
This is the problem with American healthcare. I work in Peds, and the number of children who need mental healthcare is astronomical. I’m in primary care, and if a patient presents with mental health issues, medication and a referral to talk therapy is usually what happens. It’s not perfect, but the reason why doctors do this is because facilities that offer an all encompassing, multi-modal approach (getting the patient on meds, different therapies, perhaps occupational therapy) have a wait time of 12 months. A lack of access to mental health services is definitely a crisis in America.
i went to high school with her. shook me. those poor kids. but post depression is no joke. the health care system failed her
I feel for women who experience post-partum depression, post=partum anxiety, and post-partum psychosis and I know how hard it is for those with it to speak up, due to shame and the stigma associated with it. Not only was she an RN, but she was also seen by Dr's, psychiatrist, etc. Wrote in her notes/journal about resenting those babies, purposely sent her husband out as well as timed how long he would be gone, never mind the fact that she sent him to the pharmacy knowing damn well he was unsure of what he was asked to get. He called her while she was in the middle of hurting those babies and she was with it enough to stop what she was doing and called him back......never mind her search history and the fact she only checked herself in for FOUR days and left AMA. She knew EXACTLY WHAT SHE WAS DOING imo and now she's playing everyone. If she truly cared; her first question wouldn't have been "Do I need an Attorney". She never once asked how the babies were because she KNEW what she had done. She makes it that much harder for women who truly have PPD, PPA, and PPS.
Her husband sounds like a really loving father. Hes being honest about what life looked like before the murders even though it may be harmful to his wife. 😢 This is sad.
From all the local news he seems to have bailed. It all depends on how good the reporting is however.
It's absolutely devastating.
Just imagining that scene he walked into, it's really difficult to fathom. I might have snapped.
I’m a nurse and listening to you read off the medications I was like “Aww, she’s adorable!” 😂🥺 Love my true crime bestie. Drug names are hard!
Especially how she said lamictal lol 🤣
The fact that it was pre planned pretty much sums it up in a nutshell shell.
I can't believe I missed this upload. I've been waiting for an update on this one forever.
I am always torn on cases like these where mental illness is involved. We need better care for the mentally ill. There is no doubt that this woman had mental health issues and was seeking help. They failed her. Being able to function doesn’t mean you aren’t suffering internally. Believe me, I know. I was on medications, going to work, taking care of my family but inside I was numb. I felt like a zombie. Luckily, I was able to get past all of this. There needs to be places where people like these can go for long term care! A week in a hospital while they experiment with medications, then out the door just doesn’t work!!
Agree
Sadly we used to have long term psychiatric hospitals but because some of them were abusing or neglecting patients, all of them lost funding and were shut down. They should have just fixed them instead of getting rid of them all together.
Plus inpatient can be super traumatizing too! I have several friends who have PTSD from it on top of the issues they went in for. We need more long-term mental health help that isn't just a week in a hospital. Something more comfortable and less traumatizing when possible.
I’ve had postpartum depression. 3 different times. It’s really terrible.. But if you get to a point where you think about hurting your kids, you need to tell someone. She was struggling clearly but didn’t voice the violent thoughts she had towards her children. It could have been a psychotic break or it could have been planned… I truly believe she never deserves to see the light of day either way. Those babies did not deserve that.
Did you listen? She told her friend she was having violent thoughts about hurting herself and her kids, she was getting mental health treatment 5 days a week, she did voice these thoughts and was sent home to care for them on a cocktail of drugs.
She did though, she was released a few weeks prior from a mental health facility
And the faculty did not diagnose her with ppd. However psychiatry is 100 percent subjective. @@shellyshell9655
If it was a psychotic break, she’s a victim in this too. America needs to pull their thumb out their a$$ and start providing mentally ill, vulnerable mothers help instead of refusing ig and then villainising a very sick mother when things spiral. Not saying I’m sure this is the case here, but so sick of people judging women who have had PSS and psychotic breaks like their own country isn’t putting them in that horrifying position. When that happens, the blood of those babies are on the healthcare system
She went for treatment multiple times but was failed
It's the way they suffered so badly. Makes it so much worse.
I appreciate you sharing your experience with PPD. ❤ I am not a mom but I think as women we are all stronger if we can empathize and try to understand each other’s struggles, finding ways to support one another and look out for each other. Sending you love and gratitude ❤
Does anyone else find it extremely disturbing that a doctor would think it’s okay to prescribe 11 different medications at the same time for mental/behavioral issues? This woman was treated like a pharmaceutical cash cow
Yea - thing that stands out to me the most about this is the irreversible damage that can be caused by this "trial and error" method that's so prevelant in the medical industry. Medical professionals act like "just be patient til we find the right thing," and I get it from a logical standpoint -- but meanwhile the effects could RUIN someone's life, like irreversible damage. We need better research on how to actually treat these things instead of just the "trial and error" drug method. Ugh
She was only on 3 at a time
She wasn't on all those at one time
@@KeekoLane3 of those medications at once could easily cause psychosis.
The long term side effects and interactions are unknown to most doctors.