LG's Broken Promise: How Consumers Got Screwed Out of Their 10-Year Warranty
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- Опубліковано 4 бер 2024
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This is absolute bullshit. Roku just updated their terms for this and, unless I agreed, I couldn't keep using the TV I've already been using for however many years I already have.
Then refuse and get a refund.
@@HaggisMuncher-69-420Har har, yer phunny.
They're not referring to a new device they just got out of the box, they're referring to a TV they just said they've been using for years. I think that refund ship done sailed far away my dude.
@@HaggisMuncher-69-420good luck getting a refund after 6 months.
Most of what I use my Roku for is to access the Plex server on my LAN. Worst case I replace it with something else if they decide to screw me and cut off access to my Plex server ... I've gotten more than the $39.99 I gave them in value over the last few years. But I don't have my CC info in their little box and I never buy anythign from them (or anyone else for that matter).
But yeah, forced arbitration should be illegal.
I don't think they can get a refund after using a product for years. All i can say is "sucks to be you!"
A fucking fridge having a TOS is as dystopian as it gets 😂
You will not store human remains in this fridge!
Nah, you haven't seen anything yet.
@@pootispiker2866Item barcode not able to be read.
Just wait until there are forced reboot software updates
And your toaster got bricked during a BIOS update when the power went out.
If a company doesn't have a document signed by the customer, they shouldn't be able to claim the customer agreed.
My roku TV just had a forced arbitration agreement update, I cannot use the display without agreeing. I have even tried unplugging my router so it does not have internet access, I still have to agree to use my display. This is predatory, the company is holding my tv hostage and will continue to do so until i agree.
@@Twist3rOfficalThere might be contract duress laws where you are... please check
@@Twist3rOffical you should sue them on the old terms.
@@norwegiansmores811 a class action will arise, its inevitable
@@Twist3rOffical Welcome to capitalism - Profits over People!
Forced arbitration shouldn't be legal.
You can't legally sign away your physical freedom. You shouldn't be able to legally sign away your rights to make use of the legal system.
I actually disagree, I think both of those things should be legal (After all, you don't have freedom if you don't have the right to sign it away). You own yourself, not anyone else, and certainly not the freaking government. I can't think of a good reason why anyone would agree to either, but taking away any right is never correct.
What should be illegal is forcing customers into agreeing to something they are not aware of, or negating services or assets they already have (which preserves the right, but still gets to the heart of what you are looking for). Companies should not be able to bury things in terms of service or end user license agreements.
You could solve the problem by having a very strict TOS or EULA standardized template managed by a watchdog -- one that is obvious, well known, and contains no room for unusual fuckery. Any TOS or EULA That is not word for word copied from this standard requires legal counsel to explain in detail provided at the expense of the provider, else it is null and void.
@@CLove511 "I can't think of a good reason why anyone would agree to either" - people may knowingly sign away some of their rights to sue because most people don't sue most of the time, so people don't give that risk enough weight to offset the benefit of buying a product (above buying some other product, or buying nothing). But much of the point of the legal system is to deal with exceptions, to deal with exceptionally bad behaviour. It's almost universally serves as a means for companies to do illegal things and get away with it. If we want to prevent illegal things from happening (and if the legal system exists to deal with illegal things), that shouldn't be allowed.
I can empathise with Louis wanting an upper limit of what he can be sued for to mitigate the effect of frivolous lawsuits, for example, but if his neglectful mistake burns someone's house down, he should be liable for a lot more than just the repair cost. The better way to deal with frivolous lawsuits is to punish people for suing people without adequate justification (e.g. SLAPP) or requiring anyone who wants to sue anyone to justify their case to a judge before even being allowed to start legal action against someone, and before the other person even begins to defend themselves (or punishing lawyers to a greater degree for taking on poorly-justified cases). Multi-billion-dollar companies with teams of full-time lawyers can't have a reasonable fear of frivolous lawsuits, and I don't know if forced arbitration even really mitigates frivolous lawsuits.
And you shouldn't be able to sell yourself into slavery for a similar reason why we have minimum wage (although adequate welfare can serve a similar purpose). When someone is so desperate to even just get something to eat, they'd agree to whatever you ask - taking advantage of that is exploitation. And when giant companies can exploit workers, they can out-compete companies that don't, and they can have near-complete control over the production and distribution of physical resources. This would lead to more and more people becoming desperate from being unable to access those resources, and therefore widespread slavery. I'd rather not live in a society rife with exploitation and slavery, so I oppose that. This is basic economics, but people are tricked into believing otherwise by the fantasy of "the american dream" where systemic oppression mostly doesn't exist, and anyone can end up on top with hard work (which demonstrably isn't true).
The TOS template is something I have thought about. I don't know if requiring legal counsel would be practical, though. What I was thinking was more like an independent organisation distributing some standard templates, and then honest and decent companies say "we're using this template with these parameters and these changes". Scummy companies may just continue to use their own TOS with hidden clauses, but that would face much greater scrutiny and backlash compared to the current world we live in where basically every company has dozens of pages of TOS. This reminds me of the standard open-source licenses that exist.
And your solution still allows companies to do bad things that are to the detriment of other people and society as a whole, which is exactly why we make things illegal in the first place.
These discussions are arbitrary .... The TOS contracts are opportunistic and deceptive.
There should be a law that these agreements can only be legal when they are independent contracts, where the customer has to actively opt in.
@@CLove511 Most workers are aware of what they are signing, yet 52% of employees have signed forced arbitration clauses.
Do you know why that is? It's called being under duress. If you don't sign the forced arbitration clause, you don't get the job.
Most countries have consumer/employment guarantees that override certain provisions that can be put in a contract. But the USA is so corrupt they allow big corporations to escape legal liability when they have done something illegal.
In my opinion, a law should be passed to quash all current forced arbitration clauses in every existing non-business contract.
Then it should require that new arbitration clauses must be a separate single page document that must be signed with a signature (or e-signature).
If the customer/employee does not sign it, they will have legal protections to sue if any part of the contract is withheld due to not signing the forced arbitration agreement. The forced arbitration clause in its first paragraph would clearly explain that this is a voluntary agreement, and that anything withheld due to not signing this contract would be recoverable in a special expedited court hearing that would include at minimum 100% of the cost of bringing it to trial. (Add huge risk to the company presenting the arbitration agreement).
Eg. I buy a Roku tv, in a few years an update occurs and a screen pops up telling me to sign an arbitration clause. If I hit no, the TV stops functioning. Now I can join a class action lawsuit for a minimum full refund in the purchase value of the TV + interest (equal to historic CPI) & court fees + the potential additional damages for inconvenience, pain and suffering.
That is the only way an arbitration clause should exist, if a company presents it, they should be damn squeaky clean if the customer rejects it since they will by default be forced to pay the customer to sue them for damages at minimum.
I also hate the (blank) company!
Agreed, I also hate (blank) company!
The (blank) company kicked a puppy.
The (blank) company stole my cat!
my wife left me for the (blank) company
The (blank) company gave me bonitis!
LG is being sued right now. The Arbitration clause is null, notification after the sale doesn't constitute consent.
Good! Now everyone needs to know so they don't get screwed by not knowing their rights.
Honestly the most dystopian part is all the people acting like this has ANY legitimacy. It’s cut and dry illegal. Lg is literally just trying to break the law, lie and trick people.
Thanks! I found the story and posted a link.
If LG's claim sticks in court, then the next logical step is to sue the store that delivered it. They sold and delivered a product without telling the consumer the vital arbitrition information. They also took the box away so the consumer couldnt know about it. This will make stores like Home Depot to no longer sell LG fridges because of the liability.
One person company, already liquidated next month, the person makes another company. Good luck (yeah just showing worst example).
No, they would sue LG instead and they have the lawyers to do it.
I bought directly from LG, paid them to deliver and install it, never saw a box. I have it on my cameras. I don't think they could hold me to their box clause.
@@phobos258enjoy a fridge that will randomly quit cooling soon. Good luck finding a tech near you to honor the warranty. They've burned bridges.
The LG arbitration agreement is also taped inside the fridge & is in the owner's manual. Which is pretty much standard with all electronics & appliances now days
It's one of the biggest problems with the concept of "coporate personhood". They cannot receive "corporal punishment" (a.k.a. JAIL) for things that a REAL person would be put in jail for.
Thats why its corperate personhood as its all the positives of personhood with no negatives
Maybe we can develop shrink rays ans shrink all their buildings and assetts and leadership and then the whole company will fit in a jail. Gotta get the worker 🐝🐝🐝🐝 out first.
It's not even a real legal ruling though, it was slipped in by a bought-off stenographer.
The directors of the corporation should be the ones serving jail time for any crime commited by the corporation.
The funniest thing would be being out of service in place of being jailed
Honestly, this kind of shit should put the CEOs in jail.
They try this kind of crap all the time in Quebec and hate when you turn around and use consumer law to shut them up. The number of times I told people to get the Quebec consumer protection law on the gov website and call manufacturers is higher than I care to count. Almost every time, the manufacturer folds and replaces the product, just so they don't have to deal with the consumer protection office.
To clarify: Quebec consumer protection law as explicit provisions preventing them from having you sign away your rights as well as "minimum expected lifetime" requirements for products that overwrite anything the manufacturer tries to impose.
The French Canadians got something good?
Here's hoping this goes global at some point.
The opposite, CEO gets promoted for doing this
samsung CEOs have jail experience ;-)
because "getting a law" is totally a thing
@@cl8804 go back to 1st grade reading. The above words mean "get the text of the law from the website" if you need it spelled out.
Full size refrigerators don’t fit through a 32” standard size house door in the box.
In fact, most of them need the handles removed to fit through a 32” door.
The units are always unboxed outside and the boxes never enter the home.
How dare you bring up facts a working person might know! Soon AI will install microwave ovens, custom kitchen deleveries, move these refrigerators, move these color TVs...
Talk about "Money For Nothing"
Someone had to make a Dire Straits reference. That entire album was awesome.
Agreed! We were long overdue on a Dire Strait reference.
@@haedrichowen Let me guess...You are a person with great intellect which leads you to simple principles. Some go the other way. We gotta stick together as we face a time in which moronic gullibillaty is a virtue. Great "Principles" and simple...Yup.
"We gotta move these refrigerators, we gotta move these colour tvs..."
~ Mark Knopfler/Sting
@@JoseLopez-tk4tq Have you listened to the rest of that album? Brothers in Arms is a masterpiece. "Your Latest Trick" is the perfect encapsulation of a mood. I will buy you a copy if you don't have it already.
Forced arbitration: We (the company) have no intention of standing behind the product we sold you. Forget about any 'warranty'.
There needs to be a law that says you cannot be compelled or required to give up your right to sue.
Well, there can be problems with that. Imagine combat sports, where often, you cannot sue the promoters of a fight for your injuries during the fight, which are technically injuries acquired whilst in the workplace. And here, I think that everyone would agree that it's only reasonable that this is imposed, after all, fighting involves injuries, unless you are doing bullcorn like contactless karate or aikido or whatever. So we need to figure out some other way to make all of this better, like forcing to put all of the important stuff on the first page, for instance. But even that seems hard. For now, the best thing we can do is to never ever purchase from those companies again and pressure politicians to come up with something.
We should be entitled to an MMA fight with the CEO of LG for compensation!@@mrmacguffin6886
@@mrmacguffin6886I disagree, you should be able to sue even then, because the courts can then rule, that you knowingly took part in high risk situation, and therefor they are no liable for it.
What you can do, is intoduce the same system that is enforced in other countries, where in a lawsuit, the losing party pays for all legal fees for both parties, thus increasing the risk for anyone trying to make frivilous lawsuits.
@@themurmeli88 But what happens if an unjust ruling is made, and has to go to appeals? Does the individual suing pay the $200,001 legal fees of LG, because they have expensive lawyers? No matter how you handle fees, the disparity is a huge problem that none of the current system really handles well. And by shifting fee liability like that, no lawyer will take the case unless its open and shut.... and given how TOSs play telephone with jurisdiction in the US, open and shut might not be enough to win a case before the delay tactics bleed you dry on affording your own lawyer.
Vote for people that will make the laws. Right now we vote for people that do what their top donors want.
Here in Sweden, hidden contracts are illegal.
Thank you for a nice video.
Yes, but that is not a condom.
Suing them is very costly if you do not win and you need to have a fat bankroll to even try that gamble.
LG: "It's not hidden it's on the box."
Long EULA should be taxed. +1% for every additional page!
Only the first page of any EULA should be considered to be agreed upon, anything that requires scrolling should be disregarded unless it details the main points shown on the first page.
Especially when they don't show where the changes are.
It can't be you have to use something like winmerge to find out the changes.
There should be a TLDR summary without a lick of lawyer legalese.
Putting it in terms of pages is open for abuse by shrinking the font size. Put a character limit on it instead. 4096 bytes is considered by the Demoscene to be about one page when getting across how restrictive a challenge it is to make a 4K demo, so let's go with that. The first 4KB of EULA is free, every subsequent KB, rounded up, attracts a tax of 1% of the product's cost. That's up-front if it's an outright sale, and per month for subscription services.
I was recently FORCED to agree to Roku's arbitration agreement, or my 2 year old TV became useless garbage. That can't be legal! It's coercison!
Exactly. All roku customers need to sue in a class action law suit. Ask an attorney about it.
Wow. My last comment didn't show. Talk to an att or. Ney. They will usually take ancase like this for free as a class. Action. Suite.
In Germany we have somthing called "sittenwidrigkeit" this translate roughly to immorality.
In Our commonlaw (§ 138 Abs. 1 BGB) it say that: "A legal transaction that violates common decency is void."
@@LykeArgyyeah it depends what absolute brilliance is in our courts, more than anything. A town council once banned dancing and the courts upheld it.
We should have that at the EU level as that's a very good law!
@@Daniel-wn5ye We do have something similar in EU law. There is a law that says that you can not sign away any of your rights as a consumer. That means that it doesn't matter what it says in the TOS, you can never be worse off than what the law guarantees.
There are similar laws in the US, but most people don't know of them.
"A legal transaction that violates common decency is void." Does that apply to prostitutes?
Roku just did that. A couple of days ago Roku issued a new tos and it was all about arbitration. Giving up your right to class action. You couldn't access your device unless you agreed. Because there was no option to opt out or not agree.
The law states that you can still join a class action. Even if you agreed to the TOS.
Steam did the same thing years ago about the time Skyrim was released.
Can confirm. Just saw that update on my Grandma's Roku smart TV.
I think they need to have a legal change for consumer protection that requires you to sign a EULA or ToS at the point of purchase. This way, if the terms are too onerous and evil, you just leave the store without the product. You'll never waste your time or money on it, there won't be any sunk cost issues.
I've had situations where I was about to buy something and the terms sucked so much, I just left without it.
Yep. Just commented on another comment about this, its predatory. They are holding the product I paid for, hostage, in a non functioning state. I'm not agreeing to the terms, let me use the display I paid for, without rokus software.
I was about to work for a company that tried to make me sign A non-arbitration agreement. I thought that was odd so I did a bit more research into the company and found out that they were under a new name after finding out what the company was previously called. I discovered that they had a total of three class action lawsuits for failure to pay overtime as well as even allow employees a 30 minute lunch break, but would still make them clock out for lunch and work through the 30 minutes. Needless to say, I decided I would not be working for that company
I work for a company that did that about 5 years or so ago... it was a condition of continued employment according to the module. They also have arbitration baked into their Workman's Comp program which gets them around dealing with that government body too. I have coworkers who have through their language clearly expressed to me that they don't comprehend what this really means. 😂😢🤷
Getting hit with a $800 million judgement doesn't mean much if they made $2 billion by doing the bad action.. At that point it is the price of doing business...
If they made $2 billion in profit maybe but $2 billion in sales doesn't account for manufacturing and shipping costs. There's also the loss of sales from people losing faith in the brand which are hard to calculate.
Also if the thing that caused the lawsuit could have been fixed for less than $800 million they would still be upset. For instance if making their product the "right" way would have only cost them an extra $500 million but avoided the lawsuit then they basically burned $300 million by being shitty. Yeah they still might have made a profit but they made less than they could have which is all the shareholders care about in the end.
@@thisishandlenumber2048 Well I was not specific enough I guess, when I said they made $2 billion. I did mean profit not sales. But anyway cash flow does affect a business too even if it was sales not profit. A company can hide profit in arbitrary expenses as well. But my main point is if they made more profit than the cost of the judgement many companies can count that as a win, and therefore just a cost of doing business.
Agree. Corporate law should be revised to that for any crime a corporation does the executives have to serve jail time.
It should be illegal to change the TOS and force users who purchased it with different TOS to accept it. IRL it happens every F month, something is "updated" and I need to accept to be able to carry on using the product. W the actual F.
Don't buy devices that do SaaS (software as a service), that's the risk that people need to know they take when using that
@@XxZeldaxXXxLinkxX Problem is a lot devices its not obvious they are software as a service. Or when you buy it, they claims its not, then retroactively change it later. Its disgusting.
Apple does this every month or so.
Crime is standard practice for this corporations. Which make them crooks.
Should be able to use something like a Pi-hole to monitor the traffic of the device to figure out the address it connects to in order to update. Then block the address. Have to plan ahead though.
@@alexatkin It can be pretty easy, if the device requires you to use an online service then it's SaaS.
To be honest, there should not be an option to sign away one's rights by forced arbitration clause or by some other similar legal bullshit.
You shouldn't be able to make your own adult decisions? What a stupid fucking take. Yeah let's have the government make all decisions for us. What could go wrong?
Portions of any TOS or EULA which violate consumer or constitutional rights are void by default regardless of what anyone says. You're free to start any legal action against them.
I have an LG 3 door fridge we bought 30 years ago .
It's still working.
Sad how they went down
That's probably the exact same point they brought up as a reason to change things, they don't exactly want people to have the same fridge for 30 years.
@@BriBCGthis year is the hundred year anniversary of the start of planned obsolescence. started in 1924 with lightbulbs intentionally lowering their lifespan.
That was the good old days, where stuff was made to last, now stuff is made to last just over a year & then you are f ,
Is it very inefficient?
@@BriBCGyes, we bought 2 LG TV’s 19 years ago, had to put new capacitors in them a while back when the display didn’t come on, now the damn things just won’t quit…(now whenever I see TV’s set out on the curb I think “probably just needs new caps…”)
Their dishwasher didn't even last 5 years and I went through 2 compressors in 6 years on the same fridge. I'll never buy any product from them again!
Trouble is if you take that attitude, you'll run out of brands to purchase as they ALL have good and bad lines.
I hear you on this....
Roku just updated terms regarding dispute resolution. The TV I have owned and used for the last 2 years is useless unless I 'accept' updated terms.
Why is this allowed?
If they can literally disable use of a product I purchased long ago unless I accept some crappy agreement they pushed out yesterday, then they should also have to reimburse me for rendering a product I own inoperable when I decline to accept the agreement. What they have done is stolen my TV from me after I agreed and paid for it 2 years ago.
I'd love to issue a chargeback on something like that
Exactly
"Purchase" should be a legally reserved term, not applicable to licenses for streaming media or programs that need to phone home more than one time to work.
Ditch the "more than one time" part. If it phones home AT ALL, it shouldn't count.
In the province of Ontario, Canada, section 8 of the Consumer Protection Act, 2002, SO 2002 c 30 [CPA] voids mandatory arbitration clauses in consumer contracts.
Don't let anything f*** you unless it's buying you dinner or paying your bills. 😂
One thing that is good to do as well, is to check repair shops to see if they even service the appliance or brand. I had a Samsung fridge that stopped cooling. No repair shop would touch it as they told me LG and Samsung was to complicated. So I avoid both brands now.
That’s the thing to do. There are UA-cam channels that talk about which fridge, washer, etc not to buy.
It's smart, to avoid smart devices.
The ability to f*ck me over is the best explanation of "forced arbitration" I've heard. Thanks Louis!
Regarding "Finding manual online", in Finland, my friend bought a mobile internet data connection, and started wondering why it felt unusably slow just after a few days.
At his place, I took a look at the manual (that was inside the box, that he wouldn't have been allowed to open in the shop), and right somewhere in the middle, in small print was text "Monthly data cap 5 gigabytes" (That's when all other operators had already stopped that BS)
And guess if there was any mention of that on the box? But hey, there was this text "Read further details online!" - yeah... right, when buying an INTERNET CONNECTION?
Sounds like the old internet provider I had, if the internet went out the only way to reach them was surprise over the internet, the phone number was sales only and would not connect you to tech support.
Finland, old friend got talked into (I cannot get the phone call) "buying internet connection"... Yeah, 80-yo, never had one, never used one, also got someone there for oven an HOUR to install cable modem.
It's 2-year plan for more than 100€/month, so... I went to the store already and talked my mind, just got empty stares "we can't do anything"... (deal in phone was last year, this year law came into effect that you have to sign something, in addition to agreeing to something in phone, in order to it be legally binding).
So, I'll be posting something, I mean I do have that in video too since I thought about it, so took my pen cam into store. Probably legal trouble if I post video about it, might be considered slander (yeah, usa ppl, bit different this side of pond).
Yeah something I've learned is to do research on digital goods before buying. If it's internet, barrow a friend's phone or a public library.
At what point does modern crap become more hassle than killing dinner with your hands and making tools from the bones? 3...2...Close.
It's requirement to notify limitations like that before purchasing said mobile connection. How long ago that was? Because it should not happen these days. It's not legally binding contract if they did not notify your friend before purchasing. "Read further details online!" is not enough to make it legally binding.
I absolutely agree with the opening. My boss recently announced raises at our company and tried to portray that in a positive light. When someone asked if it was legal minimum or more, he confirmed it was legal minimum. The message was "I am giving you what you are legally owed, but I want to portray it as a token of generousity"
This brings up a bigger matter: that we need reform over biased arbitration courts.
The motive isn't justice, it's profit ...
Arbitration isn't court and bias isn't the issue. The COST to bring regular civil lawsuit can be tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars; take that number and multiply it by 10+ and you might be able to afford arbitration alone, not to mention living full-time in another country, unable to earn your income while focusing on your arbitration and away from work.
By cost I don't just mean what the arbitrator (usually a retired judge holding you a private, court-enforceable mediation marathon) requires, if you're going this far then you need a whole legal team because not only are you dealing in the law of whatever wrong you're alleging, you're also needing someone who knows law in the country hosting the arbitration, a translator probably, and to cover the expenses of your witnesses (if any) if they have to come in and give vivo voce evidence.
Arbitration in your own country is nuts expensive, arbitration in another country is impossible unless you're disgustingly rich or a massive company.
@@hovant6666 Then there should be a law reform.
Since the extortion payer pays for the government. Law shouldn't cost anything to anyone except the guilty party.
@@RicardoSantos-oz3ujGovernment entities are in no way related to private arbitration, though I of course agree that legal rights are rendered useless for everyone but the rich if enforcing them requires disgusting amounts of wealth
We own an LG fridge with a bad compressor issue. We are “lucky” enough to have it covered under lemon law. But its days are numbered now as that’s getting out of date. I can assure you, the next Fridge is not an LG. Nor will our washer/dryer be. Or dishwasher. Or lightbulbs. They don’t build products that last, and they don’t honor their warranty. The only thing that’s kept the fridge (mostly) running is a class action lawsuit. Ridiculous and shameful.
Friend of mine got sued by a credit card company a couple of days before 3 years for for the statute of limitations for about $15,000 in credit card debt, and he cited binding arbitration getting the court to dismiss the lawsuit. About 6 months later he got served for binding arbitration and argued statute of limitations now apply. The arbiter said that he is waiving the statute of limitations and issued an arbitration award against my friend. Then they took him to court and the judge said he cannot interfere with an arbiter that is wrong.. and ordered my friend pay. So arbitration never works in the consumer’s favor.
Behold another of the countless achievements of nonviolence.
Did they garnish his wages?
Bigger question is why rack up unsecured debt, and expect to get off scott-free?
@@Dan_TacticsHow nice, a "credit card companies charge 30% interest but should never have anyone default" simp.
That may be the case, but it sounds like your friend tried to exploit the system to avoid paying his debt... I don't think credit card companies are by any means good, but I don't think they were in the wrong here...
No company should be able to have people giving up their rights to lawsuit.
Never stop bringing situations like this to light, Louis.
There was a meme once, that "I read the terms of service" is the most common lie among human race nowadays :D
I passively boycott LG and have for nearly 20 years. They knowingly sold me a defective DVD burner and told me on the phone I was burned. If you give me an LG product, I will destroy it rather than give it away. I cannot condone purchasing from this company.
What I don't understand is how contracts can be above the law. Even if you sign away your rights in a contract, that should make the CONTRACT void, not your rights. It makes no sense
A fucking fridge having a TOS is as dystopian as it gets
Please film the LG delivery when it arrives 😅
I think a law that says "the company putting the forced arbitration clause in the contract is not allowed to pick the arbiter" would fix a lot of this.
Hahaha great idea!
I'm my own arbiter. I win!
I used to work for BestBuy and I remember they made us sign that arbitration thing where we couldn't sue them. I hated it when I saw it and felt very humiliated. We live in a world where corporations actually do control our lives
As a former tech repairman and seeing what I am seeing today. I would not buy anything from Samsung and now LG. Forget paying their maintenance agreement. Sadly Sears used to take care of these problems because they were big enough to push back on the MFG. and even give you a new one. Those days are gone. I think now I would recommend the purchase of the cheapest of the cheapest. As I see it EVERYTHING now is called a throwaway. Looks like apple will soon go by the wayside as well. I know I will not buy another one. Hoping that MUSK will make a fine cell phone without all the BS might bring some hope back.
it shouldn't even be legal to sign away your right to sue unless u and the company meet and they pay u for your issue instead of u taking them to court
Just do not use "smart" devices. You don't need them.
Exactly. My smart home does not use internet. I block it.
Only an option if non-smart devices are available, and guess what? EVERYTHING is smart now. Even the toothbrushes!
@@FavoritoHJS I won't buy anything I can't operate without internet. All of my plugs and such I either hack or verify they work without internet and I use an open source system to manage it all
I propose a smart bidet that tells every other unnessicarily smart device...You taste where this is going.
Use a single board computer. Way better than built in smart because you have control
Politicians are to blame.
I see everyone complain about the companies here but don't forget that many of you have unknowingly contributed to this. I encourage all to look at who they have voted for and their stance on consumer protection laws. Companies have been constantly strategizing for decades how to influence laws that take away consumer and other protections, i.e. East Palestine train derailment anyone. If you want this kind of BS to stop look at who really allows this.
Back in 2007, my parents bought an LG fridge when we moved houses, they bought a second LG fridge in 2014 when they realized we needed more space for storing cold foods. Both broke down about a week apart in the beginning of 2016. The old fridge's warranty had long run out, and the new fridge's warranty didn't cover busted compressors, which was the broken part. This left my parents (reasonably) livid from having to buy a whole new fridge because the warranty didn't cover 1 particular part (which is apparently known to be faulty), and they haven't bought an LG appliance since. They have instead spent time looking into which companies they would buy certain appliances from ahead of time in order to avoid being screwed out of money/a proper warranty. Highly recommend checking with not only online reviews of a product, but also people around you regarding the quality of appliances they own, and the companies that make them before buying.
What DID they end up buying (and where)?
@@SayAhh they bought a Whirlpool refrigerator from Best Buy. Can’t remember the exact model, but they’ve had it for about 8 years now and works just as good as the day they bought it.
While on this topic, I have to wonder if appliance companies also take part in forced obsolescence, as I always hear that appliances just don’t last as long as they used to. For an extreme example, my grandparents have had the same fridge and laundry appliances since 1990, while a fridge my parents bought in 2014 broke down after about 2 years.
I would love to see a video of the refusal of the LG fridge. 😅
Back before I retired, I used to say throughout my career, "If the employer could charge you to work for them they would do it". I used to work on a couple of properties that had 60 year old
Chrysler AC units, that was just a few years ago, they were still working. Planned Obsolescence stopped that nonsense in the 70's, and legal loopholes, and hidden language helped.
I work in a SUMITOMO factory here in Romania and they pay you minimum wage and constantly nag you to do extra stuff that you aren't obligated to do not to mention a lot of people left the company and basically in forced to do two people's job for the same salary
Don't buy Samsung Washers! They aren't the same as they were 15 years ago. That Bespoke model shakes and thumps more than our old Samsung machine ever did- called the service warranty and the guy they sent said it was normal. I then took it apart (which my wife posted to Samsung's social media page) to check the shocks and found that the shocks are pretty much designed as garbage- they aren't failed yet but they also don't dampen much either. It's a nice looking machine that cleans well, but don't let the load clump together. Never had that problem in our old house.
Louis, you’ve done SO MUCH for consumer rights! Thank you!! I was feeling hopeless about how our consumer rights keep getting stripped away but seeing how many people resonate with your message and the ripples in culture you’re surely producing is really giving me hope that things will improve some day.
Here in Taiwan, one of the advantages of renting is that, most of the time, the appliances are provided. We have an LG fridge. Didn't pay for it. Our land lady works in a home/hotel cleaning company. She got this one second hand from people that didn't want it.
Thank you for the warning. I've been wondering about LG fridges and I'll avoid buying those if/when I need to.
Why do I keep feeling more and more like I need to bring a lawyer anytime I purchase something.
I wish there was a company that automatically opts you out of arbitration, like the companies that ask for you data to be deleted
Thanks for the consumer education, and advocation, Louis! Great video!
if i didn't actively do something to affirm agreement to their "terms" or "forced arbitration" clauses, it needs thrown out in court.
I agree with you Louis. 😊
You are mostly right in your interpretation of forced arbitration. Unfortunately people (consumers) are partly to blame for this with the obscene amount of frivolous lawsuits and obscene award amounts. Companies were looking for ways to protect themselves and unfortunately greedy bastards have taken the ball and run with it. The government needs to step in and set stricter guidelines/limits on both sides in regards to lawsuits, and either make forced arbitration illegal or force the companies to ensure every consumer is 100% aware that a product or service will require them to accept forced arbitration through a signature receipt and no after the fact, updated terms of service crap. Companies must be forced to abide by whatever was agreed or not agreed upon at point of sale.
these nonarbitration clauses are standard across many industries and always are printed near the end of terms. the fact that they are legal is absurd.
There used to be a law (I don't know if it still stands or not these days) which states that you are only liable to legal documents/contracts you signed before the financial transaction is concluded. After the financial transaction is concluded, you aren't liable for anything they try to tack on. If they didn't present the contract to you or the terms until after you made the purchase, you shouldn't be liable for it which is why, to this day, I refuse to accept that EULAs on software that make you agree after you've already purchased and installed it are legal.
My work place has an old refrigerator from the 1950s. That thing is cold and bulletproof basically.
But can you survive a nuke in it?
Rental contracts use this crap too. Even writing in, "if there is anything illegal in this contract, that you noticed, it does not nullify any other illegal thing that you did not notice"
Having owned an LG fridge recently I can attest to the fact they are: JUNK
You are the hero we need, but don’t deserve thank you keep on the great work
I quit a job on first day once because they wanted me to sign an arbitration clause.
In the UK, that would not be put up with in court. If you buy a product, with or without a warranty, you are covered by the Consumers Rights Act. The product must be fit for purpose and last for a reasonable amount of time. If you would expect a product to last 10 years and it develops a fault you are entitled to a repair or a partial refund. If LG is offering a 10-year warranty but fails to honour it, any reasonable person would think that it should be good for 10 years. If it fails after 2 years then you get a refund for the remaining 8 years as you have had 2 years of usage. If it is a TV with an expected 5-year life then you get 3 years back as a refund. They must be allowed to try and fix it but if they can't, then the law kicks in. Any unfair conditions would be thrown out of court and you wouldn't even need a lawyer. PS you claim against the seller, not the manufacturer.
I just purchased an LG LRMVC2306D refrigerator. Will anticipate it's delivery. As soon as I see this writing on the box, It will be refused! Total $3462.92 and there was an option for an extended warranty for $300-400 . I have to laugh! They offer an extended warranty at a cost for something they know won't be fixed....
Hey Louis, I'd just like to thank you for a moment, for all the years you've been advocating right to repair, sharing life advice, fixing macbooks and generally just doing the right thing. There's a lot of negativity nowadays, and I know this comment won't change any of that, but I figured I'd at least say thank you, for all that you've done; you've genuinely been an inspiration to me, and many others. I've been watching you since ~2018, and I've decided that I want to learn electronics and get into electronic/appliance repair. I wish to contribute to the reduction of waste, and to make repairs cheaper than buying new. Thank you for inspiring me and many others to do the same, and I hope all is going well for you.
I bought a Lucky Goldstar OLED TV once, literally the worst TV, and worst purchase in general, I have ever made. Managed to return it after weeks of correspondence proving it was not even fit for purpose let alone one of the "beat TVs on the market".
How can you agree to something you did not agree to? Where is the proof?
How is that not thrown out of court in less than a second?
Stuff like that should be written in law. In this case they can write “we own you and your lovely dog when you buy and use our products. ” on the box and in the manual. Which makes all this user agreement by purchase invalid. People just not informed well enough about their rights.
Well, I'm definitely not going to buy anything LG going forward not that I have purchased anything from them recently but this is very eye opening. Thank you for bringing this to light Louis. We need more people like you shining the spotlight on these deplorable and borderline illegal practices.
Oh man the Neve references! Ribbon cable nightmares and switches that last 3 or 4 presses. Toothpicks and zipties in every switch
Thanksfully in Turkiye law states that customers do not have the right to sign away their rights. That makes whatever LG put on the box is null and void, even if they present it to the customer and have them sign it before purchase.
If I had to read the box for every new laptop I've opened at my job I would spend 8 hours a day reading boxes.
The number of companies on my blacklist just keeps getting bigger and bigger...
4:40 The infamous LG linear compressor, it literally works by shaking itself back and forth, and has a valve, that due to being shook back and forth constantly fails.
I’m a refrigeration technician, LG is using a a device called the “linear compressor” it fails very often. Under warranty it gets replaced with the same defective compressor, and a control board update. And guess what, it fails again after about a year.
The issue is SOOOO many companies are doing this that we are loosing other options to stick it to them!
Thanks for keeping us informed.
We refuse to allow you to read the contract until after you've signed the contract
I'm personally watching this issue very closely, I hate when companies screw us like this. I refuse anything that has to do with arbitrary judgement. This usually mean that the product is faulty and they know about which means they're covering their asses! This needs to be illegal by law!
A fridge having a "Terms of service" is as 1984 as it gets. Since when can I download a fridge?
This is 100% one of those tricks that doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of actually standing up in court but they're doing it anyway because they don't think consumers have enough money or resources to challenge them on it.
That's exactly what it is. It'd be *easy* to fight this on its own in court, but for 99.99999% of consumers it's only going to *matter* when they're already getting screwed to the point of needing to take convoluted and lengthy legal action - at which point this is just one more little straw to make that fight more of a pain in the behind than it's "worth" to the consumer.
This sorta shit made me buy a mechanical espresso maker. At this point you can't even make coffee without planned obsolescence so if I'm gonna use tech, you can bet your ass I'm gonna use tech that I can repair by myself.
A lot of people think it's "if you can't beat em, join em". Way I see it is - if you can't beat em, just don't give them your money...
I've recently installed a set of LG kitchen appliances. The arbitration notice is a small piece of paper taped to the instruction sheet. You need to open the box and unwrap to find it. Basically says if you want a warranty we'll see you in court.
Furthermore the appliances themselves are quirky and don't follow the industry standards for things like where the dishwasher mounts are located. This matters when mounting under granite tops because there is a pre drilled bracket installed for mounting to and the LG brackets were nowhere near the holes.
For holding the company accountable: so many of them hedge their actions with insurance based on what the potential cost of any lawsuits. They end up making MORE off the investments and insurance policies that pay off over time.
Can't try that in Australia.
Our consumer protection means fit for purpose or replace
I think the loophole is that they're billing the functionality of the device as a "service," rather than... you know, it doing what it's supposed to do. Because services, you see, you can apply arbitration clauses to in a way you can't for basic functionalities.
Naturally, this doesn't fly when you have a regulatory body governed by people who are under the average age of 70, but we're a ways off from that yet here.
My mother bought an LG smart tv last year.
After setting it up i noticed she had to agree to sharing her personal information with third parties before the smart functions could be used.
Obviously i told here to not agree to this BS and so she didn't. The problem here is that unless she agrees to sharing her information, she doesn't have a smart tv.
She didn't care since she won't be using the smart tv functions anyway. I tried to convince her to return it but she didn't and is now using it as a normal tv.
The only thing i learned from this is that:
1. I will never buy an LG product ever again.
2. I don't use a TV but if i ever will i will do my best to get a non smart TV. I don't see the whole point of smart tv's anyway but if i cant use it while i paid for it because i don't want to share my information. Screw that, i'll stick to a CRT if i have to (if i can find one)
Thank you, keep working.
Sometime around 2005 I bought a TV DVD recorder from LG (RH7500). It broke the day I brought it home. I was given a new one and it worked OK for 2 years (warranty period) and a few more months, then broke again. Authorized repair shop said that they could not repair it even if I was willing to pay, as they did not have the necessary spare parts. In the meantime two computer DVD recorders from LG also broke down. I used to joke that I wouldn't even trust them to sell me a mouse pad.
While I love the statement of "Don't buy a refrigerator from a television company," there's this one motorcycle company that makes some great instruments!
4:47 if only it were that easy. While LG makes unreliable products, their washing machines are great. I follow watch a appliance repair company, they warned about LG refrigerator compressors before media picked up this problem but the washing machines are great. We have an LG front load from 6 years ago that is yet to show a problem, except the interior LED light that is now gone.
Louis, you are the champion the world needs. 💪💪💪👍
I remember taking the ACT for the first time and first thing you do is sign a forced arbitration clause
Watch out for the TOS signing at the POS (Point of sale) terminal and the clerk saying "Awh, it's just Boilerplate stuff!"