Lord I agree with most of the video but calling the blatant and objective fact that feelings do not equal facts "nonsense" was just pointless wrong for no reason other than "this is a popular saying on the side of my political opposition, therefore it is incorrect". Like separating the quote from Shapiro (who for the record I am absolutely not a fan of), it's just factual. It's not "nonsense", the fact that we can't separate "facts" from "feelings" is a huge part of why this whole callout epidemic is even happening. Anyway, liked the video, just that one thing bugged me.
Yeah, that might be bad wording on my part. I was referring to how sometimes 'facts are not feelings' is used as a dismissal of conversation/opinion in and of itself. It's a little bit like how data doesn't tell a story on its own we give it a narrative with context and bias. The facts are not feelings remark is similar to that and very rarely provides actual input to a conversation and usually the person asserting it just dresses their own subjective feelings up as 'fact' therein making the statement completely hollow. Because yes, obviously facts are not feelings. But the way people express their thoughts/opinions/observations is not inherently useless. That or the comment is just used to be callous or dismissive without putting any work into explaining why someone's feelings aren't factual. Even now I'm not sure I'm explaining it well, I guess I just don't like any blanket statements that shut down conversation. But yeah, feeling some way about something doesn't make it so. Sorry if the shit wording made it come across otherwise.
@@Kutaloo Yes absolutely, but you have to recognize that many opinions dictated by emotions are taken as facts by that side of the aisle, they often are not receptive when confronted with studies, making the saying no more than a hypocritical shutdown of any conversation where they find themselves unable to respond in a coherent nor factual way
If you've been accused of something relatively minor, such as ruining someone's dream journal, the right course of action is to immediately shout, "I did NAHT!!! Mister Electric, send him to the principal's office and have him EXPELLED!!!"
I like the phrase “take victims seriously” instead of “believe all victims” not because victims shouldn’t be believed but because “believe all victims” automatically implies guilt for the accused and doesn’t leave room for new evidence
@@voodoovixen666 No, it's definitely accusers taking the absolute fucking piss. Because that's the only way it even becomes an issue. The defenders are autistic, but reactionary. They wouldn't be there if the idiots on the accusation side would shut the hell up and fucking listen. It's so stupid.
Drives me nuts when I hear people say“You don’t lose anything from a false accusation” People have quite literally been killed over false accusations. It’s one of the leading arguments against capital punishment Edit: to clarify I am not just talking about sexual assault. I’m talking about any kind of false accusation
@@snailcheeseyoutube Celebrities and online influencers are NOT the same. A celebrity can throw money at the problem to cover it up, an online influencer can't.
@@snailcheeseyoutube white women weaponizing their identity to blame men of color of SA is not 0. It’s actually a pretty well-known phenomenon. Its not just women vs men. Race also comes into play, and white women hold that power.
This weirdly just reminded me of the time someone was supporting an accuser on twitter, the accused came out with their side of the story basically proving the accuser lied and the person supporting them continued to do so and gave the excuse of "even if it's not true, you have to support victims" as if it hadn't just been proven that the *accused* was actually the victim in that situation. People are bonkers. Pleasure to gross you out with my old cracky bones.
Oh my FUCKING god, this kind of thing drives me crazy. I remember seeing a tweet with several thousand likes after a similar situation that was like “it’s not our fault, the accuser lied to us, don’t attack anyone who believed them!!!!” I checked their page and earlier that week they had been in the accused’s replies telling them to 🦐 themselves. Like, oh, of course you don’t want people to attack you over that lol. As if the person weaponizing a callout against their victim MADE them send nasty messages to that person. No, honey, that’s all on you, and you have to deal with the guilt of knowing you attacked someone who was a victim.
Shouldn’t you guys talk about lio and peaches? I’m not really part of this community but grew up watching some of you guys (art commentary people) videos, and accidentally heard about it….it’s like really bad….no matter anyone’s stance I mean, it’s just a bad situation overall.
As someone who's wanted to get into the art commentary community for a while, that desire is completely gone because I can not mentally put myself in a community built on the tearing down of other creators. It's such a toxic community
@@ororomunroe8170 as an extremely old internet fossil (got online in like 2002, on the slowest dial-up you can imagine using rural phone lines) when I invent a time machine I'm taking you to 2007 and the thriving early youtube days of speedpaints and video responses to said speedpaints with other speedpaints of the characters/series, you sound like that's where you wanted to be at.
Just have a quick question, it might be silly in retrospect, but at this moment, I’m genuinely looking for some kind of definitive, or close to definitive answer to this: Is it possible to do something you like, and share it online, without involving yourself in a related community? Like if you make art commentary, but don’t want to engage with the community, and just make videos for yourself and your own audience?
Another thing to remember (as an audience member), you can distance yourself from the accused without boasting the accuser (in cases without evidence). When the kwite situation happened I distanced myself from him channel, there was no proof for either side, and I wasn’t going to support either without evidence, I didn’t watch his old content, and kept myself updated on the situation, but I didn’t go bashing anyone, I didn’t claim either as correct, and didn’t boost the accuser. I watched from the sidelines till we had evidence. It’s okay to do that, it’s not a moral failing. Edit: I feel the need to add this, but Ive watched the harm it can cause to communities and people by being part of communities that didn't (although I didn't post or comment I can't pretend I didn't make quick judgement in the past), I was part of multiple communities that have absolutely burned crashed and are never coming back the same cause of this (art commentary 2020-2022, mental health awareness communities 2020, gacha 2018-2023).
You failed though, by behaving differently you helped negatively impact the accused. Engagement is a metric that effects accused's videos and recommendation. It sounds minor but remember a lot of people have assumed guilty, so you're unintentionally adding onto it. This basically means if the accused tries to do anything, release videos as promised, ect, they are screwed over. Their potential job can't earn any money. This is why false accusations work so well, even if you lose you get to laugh at how the accused got screwed over and many people won't come back while they lost viewership and relevance for a time. The accused is going to take a hit no matter what, so supporting their content till things are proven is the only way to not add onto the damage and best way to mitigate it limiting false accusations. Innocent till proven guilty exists for a reason, because if you don't treat them as innocent till proven otherwise damage is done.
@@Dragoonsoul7878 UA-camrs don't deserve our viewership for any reason. We watch them because we like watching the personalities behind them and the content they produce. If we don't feel comfortable about one or the other, we aren't going to watch that content anymore. That is a personal choice, not a career ending one.
I will add to the conversation that there’s abusers who have begun weaponizing callout docs against their own victims to take away their power. Please be aware of this anytime you read a doc online, especially if the accused seem afraid of the accuser(s).
@@anton.s6882It's pretty simple. The abuser will for whatever reason get a whiff that their victim(s) is about to post a public document, or maybe they're just paranoid or arrogant, regardless, what they will do is to post a document to pre-empt the victim in an attempt to smear their reputation, so that when the victim actually DOES post their side of the story, everyone will have already been tainted by the abuser's lies. Usually this happens especially if the abuser is the one with a large audience, and their victim is a smaller creator/not a creator at all.
This is something I'm absolutely mortified of happening to me because my ex was a vindictive piece of shit obsessed with the animator Birdie's drama and inserted himself into any drama he could. It's been 3 years and I'm still scared. Please be vigilant and try to do research on those who are called out and the accusers.
There is a person who is heavily disliked by people in the Splatoon community and I made a drive displaying the crap he did, but never made it free for everyone to see because of this and the risk of the drama being sensationalized like every other art drama that’s been talked about. I send the drive to those who ask for the sake of awareness. The guy accused me of planning to make a video calling him out, but know how he is like, with lying and slander, twisting the truth, bullying, manipulation, it’s not gonna happen.
its insane how much these false accusers are actually hurting the future of actual victims. i have a strong feeling that im gonna wind up in the crosshairs of someone in particular whos also manipulative and toxic and would go out of their way just to ruin my life, and i dont know how to prevent it while still keeping said toxic person out of my life.
People have died from this. A COD cosplayer literally committed the unthinkable on stream because 2 girls gave false accusations. Not only did we lose a wonderful person, but its now getting impossible for real victims to be believed.
The Jay Cheshire case in the K is notably tragic. 17 years old when he took his life after baseless accusation by a classmate that was later reducted, worse still his Mother Karin took her life a year later on the anniversary of his death. These baseless accusations don't just hurt the accused but also their friends. family and colleagues of the falsely accused who are left to pick up the pieces.
Any proof of what? The COD cosplayer Inquisitor took his life on stream, and the people who accused him said they did bc he didnt like him, and that he avtually didnt do anything
Don't forget the Night in the Woods dev, Alex Holowka, where the accuser was a known liar, yet his co-devs _and_ sister took the accuser's side, and by the time people were starting to realize the whole thing was bogus, he had already killed himself.
Yeah, unfortunately this developmemt will probably have to come after we finally get the internet to stop trying to destroy people over just an accusation. You are absolutely right though. Even if someone did do something wrong I think it's important to NOT ostracize them if it was obviously a one off or they are working on themselves. (This does not apply to people who are chronically shitty though. They need professional help)
It really sucks. We make mistakes as we grow, and while mere apologies often mean little when someone is called out, we should grant them the chance to prove their sincerity. Some acts, like grooming, rape, and murder, ate much harder to forgive, and even harder for the person to redeem themselves from. However the Atrius situation, where he made a huge mistake, is unforgiven despite him donating over $60k to taking down the deepfake porn sites that got him in trouble, than I think it’s worth giving him respect. At least his actions. Of course people labeled this as “damsge control”. Meanwhile the people who don’t try to redeem themselves are labeled “not actually sorry”. You just can’t win online
@@anneo8393 the ability to change necessitates the want to change. there are people so far up their own ass that it will take their whole lives to figure that out, or a miracle.
@@thefourthdymensionmusic Of course. there's people that just dont want to change. but some do so we should'nt fucking obliterate them 5 years later over it
@@axiolot5857 i had a big comment typed out and i accidentally deleted it so im just gonna say this. its hard sometimes to figure out if someone wants to change, and its even harder online than it is in person for many reasons, but dont take that statement as me disagreeing with you. youre not wrong, its the internet, people treat people differently online compared to in real life because its easier to detach people from their humanity when all you see is a face and words on a screen and audio coming through a pair of earbuds or your phone speakers. everyone deserves second chances, but nobody deserves a 50th chance.
one thing that kills me is seeing people saying 'believe victims, you stand nothing to lose and they stand everything to gain' when it clearly skirts around the fact that the person being accused could quite literally lose everything. there are entire fields of work where, as soon as somebody says youre an abuser, it becomes infinitely harder to stay with that job. To clarify, cuz i've realised i said this super poorly. when somebody comes out about being mistreated, you should not believe them straight away. like the video says, keep yourself with an open mind and pay attention to evidence on both sides. because, as someone who has had to deal with multiple false accusations for serious crimes, people who jump to conclusions can ruin everything. remember it is innocent until proven guilty.
@remicohen2438 I have a distinct feeling that one day, all this black and white moral mindset is going to come back to bite these people in the butt in life.
Yes because if you always support the accusers out of a desire to support victims and the accusations are false, the accused is actually the victim in the situation. The Kwite situation is a great example where the accuser was actually the toxic one who mistreated him
And "innocent until proven guilty" also means assume the accuser is innocent of making a bad faith accusation (not equivalent to an untrue accusation, as touched on towards the end of the video) until they're proven guilty. Basically jumping to conclusions in either direction is assuming someone to be guilty until proven innocent ^^;
I had a "friend" who got me kicked out of a roleplay group on Discord after I upset them by saying that them being attracted to Lewis Legend (Lollipop Chainsaw, and their comfort character) didn't make them a monsterfucker because Lewis was technically an undead and acted like a human and looked like a human, nothing monstery looking about him (literally he just looks like a goth with a scar if you didn't have prior knowledge he's a zombie. He's not even rotted.) To say they were unstable is an understatement- (especially since they relentlessly mocked my comfort character from the same series because he wasn't cute enough to them) they took screenshots that were out of context and photoshopped my username over the out-of-pocket stuff they said and I got kicked. I had to go through to where the conversations were and took FULL screenshots of everything and sent it to the Mod of the server and I as reinstated and they were kicked out, but they also took it to every other social media website. The funniest thing is that they made the claim I told them to go kill themselves when all I said was for them to Get Bent, and they dead-on went "that's the same as telling me to kill myself!" because they legit had nothing else to try and defame me with. And this person was not a minor at the time of the incident, they were in their 20s.
I really really really appreciate the “Sxl harassment is not r@pe” point. I’ve been on the receiving end of both, and harassment is shitty, but they’re NOT the same.
i've been falsely accused of sexual harassment before by a rape victim. it's actually horrifying to experience an accusation like that, for more reasons than one.
One thing about this is that people are very simplistic when it comes to online discourse. You are either a victim, or victimizer. Nuance tends to be thrown out the room, so things like a faulty memory due to potential drug abuse, or things like making false allegations in the middle of defending against false allegations don't matter in the eyes of the people. You are either a princess who needs to be protected, or a witch who needs to be burned at the stake. Unfortunately, many people will take the gender equality thing by treating men like this. Either condemning them as evil witches who must be burned, or in the case of people like Bill Cosby treated as innocent until the evidence pills up and people can claim that the evidence just came out after so long. Turns out Revolutionary Girl Utena had the right idea, throw gender roles out because they will always have gross undertones regardless of how they are used or subverted.
I am a more male-presenting person online, and I have been accused before. I was accused of using one of those anonymous discord confession bots to harass a minor. The minor in question was being told to keel themselves, harm themselves, etc via anonymous confession with this bot. Everyone in the server was amped, they wanted whoever was responsible to be held accountable. The person using the discord bot was copy the way I type, so everyone was at first on me because they thought I the one doing it. The minor who was being targeted was even saying it was me. The mods of the server confronted me, and they decided to disable the confession command for me so they could rule me out. They had to rule several other people out until it was only one person left. In the end, it was the minor sending threats and insults to THEMSELVES and pretending to be me. Their reason? They were jealous. Thank goodness I didn't talk about it in the server, and whenever asked about it would change topics until the controversy was over. I had to maintain that I was innocent. That's rule #1. It all cleared up, minor kicked from server, everyone friends with me again. Yippie!
Ngl when things like this happen with those anonymous confession bots I don’t rlly understand why the mods don’t just get rid of the bot immediately or smth
I wouldn't wanna be friends with people who were their that gullible and cruel anyway. Then again, most of discord is like that, which is why I don't use it anymore
Ya know, I see so much brainrot online. It is a relief to hear someone say what is common sense out loud again. When you feel like our social climate, according to the internet, is just a sea of crazy opinions, logical fallacies, tribalistic biases, cognitive dissonance, and zealotry. Hearing someone voices level headedness, honest compassion(not sociopolitically motivated selective compassion), naunce, due diligence, intellectual honesty, and goodfaith open dialog is a respite for the soul.
I do feel that a rising form of abuse for men is to publicly accuse and slander them for emotional/ sexual abuse of a partner, friend, or stranger. And while I think there are plenty examples where it's true, there are also a lot of cases (especially on the internet) where it's not. It preys on people's bias towards men, assuming they are always powerful, predatory, and horny. This might be a hot take, but I genuinely do believe this is a form of abuse and sexism which will only be properly recognized decades from now as we reflect on the culture of the present. And while I don't think men are abused domestically more than women are, I also think men are often given a lot less support or care in situations where they are abused. For example, when was the last time people apologized for a false accusation? When was the last time there was really any justice for those people? Often times, it's a permanent smear on their life and their reputation. And if we continue to tell men that their struggles are lesser due to privilege's it inevitably pushes them to spaces that support them. And the only spaces who will currently acknowledge and care for the struggle of men are the radical groups who believe men are THE MOST abused. The ones who will turn men into bad people who lash out at society for revenge. It's important to recognize victims, and support victims. It's also important to figure out who the victim really is, and acknowledge that abuse is not just physical. And supporting male victims is not a secondary task. Every victim should be supported and believed.
@@rubyred6608760 Yeah, this. Men or women, I haven't seen a lot of people treat the victims of domestic abuse and of false accusations very respectfully. The former all get dismissed casually if men, as if they don't count, or else their abuser is celebrated for "standing up for themselves" by arseholes, and for the people falsely accused, then their cases get used as gotchas by abusers who want to undermine their own victims and redpill their male audience instead of, y'know, calling out the liar and not assuming an entire group are POSs because ONE of them is? Actually the whole BS about assuming people are monoliths in general and it's all or nothing on the presence of POSs in the groups is a huge issue online: it causes a shitton of other problems and stops people from thinking on a case by case basis and being willing to call out the arses showing within their group, because they don't want their group to be seen as suffering from rotten apples spoiling the bunch and spoiling the group being the whistleblowers.
The fact that someone felt the need to make a 40 minute video essay about how someone should go about accusing someone else is just... embarrassing. Good video tho, well informed, education, and, most of feckin all, I appreciate the lack/refrain of bias. You really just seemed like a teacher of the subject, good work
As someone who's been dealing with false accusations, thank you so much. I really needed this. I've been going nuts trying to figure out what I'm going to do about this, and I'm really glad I didn't rush into a response. Thank you so, so, so much for making this. I personally think everyone on the Internet should watch this video.
No hear me out, let the cats in the twitter war, they’ll distract your enemies as you look over their claims and get the truth. Trust me this definitely works.
The people who scream "You have 24 hours to unfollow X person" right after a 70 page expose document drops will *Not* be happy about this. (lol) I hope more people listen to the advice given here because (even if all of this seems like common sense) you always see the same people who are the Loudest about "canceling" others online being the same ones making "I may have gotten ahead of myself. I am terribly sorry for making XYZ post. I'll do better in the future" statements before doing everything wrong Over and Over and Over Again.
It’s so annoying because what are they going to do if someone doesn’t unfollow or doesn’t see the post? A random stranger is not going to get lambasted because they happen to follow someone. They aren’t actually involved in the situation so threatening a bunch of internet strangers just doesn’t work. You can’t get mad at someone when you basically give them one day to read an entire document and unfollow the person it’s about. You can at least try to make it digestible for the person reading about it and tell them to look for the accusers’ posts or a document with the claims and evidence if they want more of the details. You never force a time limit onto anyone to make a decision because decisions take time and they need to be able ti breathe and digest the information and all sides before make a decision on the situation.
I love when people accidentally out themselves as chronically online (I say this as someone who has issues with that lol). Most average people are too busy with just LIFE to take 3 hours out of their day to care about internet controversies. When people post stuff like this, it’s basically just admitting “I stay up until 11am every night on twitter, and I think that’s a healthy thing to do”
@@Nox.x_ART those kinds of people claim they act like this to "spread awareness", but 9 times out of 10 they're simply looking to have a power trip over others so they can be seen as upstanding people in their own tiny social bubbles on the Internet.
@Nox.x_ART I could be wrong but I *think* those posts are usually aimed at mutuals? Wouldn’t surprise me if they were just aimed at the entire internet though lol Those kinds of posts are why I left Twitter 3 months after making an account, watching a bunch of poor teens be distressed about why 300 of their mutuals unfollowed them and it was all because they hadn’t seen the news about the newest controversy and unfollowed a specific creator yet. Very stupid and probably super damaging to those people’s mental health to be rejected like that out of nowhere
me, remembering that time I d*xxed myself after it came out a exfriend who abandoned me was an ab*ser (there was evidence), but the person they hurt came back to them and I fell into a drama hole:
NO YEA FOR REALZIES. Having any disorder that makes you prone to black and white thinking (bpd, moral ocd, autism, etc) is the WORST for stuff like this. I have moral ocd myself and for a couple years of my life I was absolutely sucked down a rabbit hole is making sure everything I enjoyed was "pure" and "good." I'm insanely lucky to have a friend group that helped me develop critical thinking skills and in some cases "separate art from the artist" has been my best friend fr.
Oh my gosh! I remember getting dog piled on a post because I said I’m not going to dump any of my friends or family if someone just merely accuse them of something. Got called a fake feminist, one of the mods muted me so I couldn’t even defend myself while I was getting dragged (silenced a woman and let her get bullied on a supposed woman’s group. Wish I could say that isn’t typical), etc. The relating post was about how you should believe the accuser and disown friends and family, even without evidence. Just on their word alone. Insanity. One of replies to me even said, “What’s she supposed to show you?? Her bloody underwear?? Her ripped v@gina??” Hello, did somebody say bad faith argument? As a grape (remove the g) survivor, it is INSANE to expect people to cut off part of their support group from an accusation alone. That is insanity and could easily be weaponized by an abuser-which I know ‘cause that happened to me in high school. Someone accused all of my friends of SA and I felt pressured to believe them since I was a survivor myself and big on supporting fellow survivors. It was only when they started accusing random students that I JUST started getting friendly with that I cut them off and reported them. Was left without a support group because those former friends understandably did not want to rebuild those burned bridges. Is this a rare situation? Yes, but those vile people still exist and ARE willing of weaponizing the “believe all victims” rhetoric to isolate their victims. It’s okay to support accusers of friends and family, but you are also not the bad guy for expecting evidence if they expect you to cut off a loved one for them. Support groups are precious and your main line of defense against abusers.
It's also very important how the accusations are presented. It's really difficult to fake emotions when it comes to this sort of stuff so only believe people who tell you in person or other visual medium.
@@anitaremenarova6662 but also remember that 1) some people are really good actors, and people who have a lot of privilege are more likely to both be able to fake emotions convincingly and to make false accusations against people lower on the social hierarchy than them to begin with, 2) a lot of mentally disabled people (i say as a mentally disabled person myself) can't express emotions in "normal" ways and might seem like we're lying when we're not or not seem emotional over anything at all even when we're really upset, and you might not know someone is mentally disabled even if you know them really well (a lot of us go undiagnosed, even)
I do think what you should do first when you’ve been falsely accused is to just say that you are working on a response and nothing more Basically so people won’t think your silence means you are running from the situation
On the flipside, that could make some people think you are taking time to properly make your case (in a non-genuine matter) because you can't win with twitter :/ but overall I think this is decent advice
When the Wilbur situation broke, it drove me nuts how people jumped to the conclusion that Wilbur was the "ex boyfriend" Shubble was mentioning. If they were wrong, not only would Wilbur's career have been ruined, but the three (apparently) innocent members of LoveJoy and even Shubble's were on the chopping block! My opinion has since changed since Wilbur's statement came out and he admitted to it but called it a "misunderstanding" which was not it, but that's a massive bullet dodged, not proof that what happened was the right thing to do.
I really don't know what people mean about him admiting to it, he didn't. He just did what every man in this situation would do regardless of what happened: apologize and try to explain why the things the other person said are false without taking away their "experience". Because if he didn't he could risk the internet getting more mad at him. And it did, because it always does. I've seen that happening trillions of times. Shubble still didn't get any proof whatsoever for what i recall and Wilbur vanished from the internet probably because he knows he can't fight with a woman accusing him of abuse. For context: here where i live we have a very famous youtuber now streamer who got the same treatment as Wilbur; his ex girlfriend accused him of terrible things for over 7 years. His first instinct was to go on twitter and say "i'm sorry to everyone i disappointed, i am in therapy right now..." yadda yadda. Because of that people believed everything his ex said of him... Again without any proof: thinking that "well if he apologized then the allegations are real". 7 years later his ex accused him of sexual abuse, this time she was accusing him of a crime... He was then forced to put on twitter a 19 pages doc that explained everything in detail what was their relationship like, how SHE was the abuser all along and how he never talked about it because he didn't want to reveal so many private informations about himself, their relationship and his life (because he had to reveal REAL INTENSE things from his past to prove how he would never do what she claims he did). One day after that the whole country sided with him, even other creators that let him down while the drama was happening. His ex came out saying that the accusation was false but that he was still a bad boyfriend (wich he already admitted he was, but now told us she wasn't great either, being even more terrible than whatever he could have made). He also got her sued for defamation and won't respond nor reveal anymore of their past issues to the public because that's private and not internet domain. There are MANY REASONS why a person should not talk about their experience on the internet and many reasons why the other party might not deffend themselves and rather take the blame. It's not because Wilbur apologized that he did what Shelby claimed he did. She did not show any proof, he did not give his perspective yet about anything (and i really wish he does, or that shelby at least give us somethinf to work with). And more importantly: they aren't solving things legally yet. Only then will we know the real truth if we ever do. To trust someone to the point of ruining other person's life, that someone has to have loads of proof, and preferably not spill any of that on the internet. Because the internet isn't a place for that.
@@sweetbnuy THIS!! I commented on an upload of Shelby's stream saying that I was taking everything with a grain of salt until I saw some actual proof and I got *dogpiled* by people yelling that "Wilbur apologized so it's true" and I even had someone tell me that because Shelby's friends took her side that somehow means she was telling the truth? I also was told that "Shelby would have nothing to gain from falsely accusing him" when...look what's happening now. People he previously thought of as friends are dogpiling him and he's pretty much gone silent. People are so ready to believe stories of unproven events and banish the accused from the Internet, meanwhile if anyone questions the accuser, they get lambasted for "not believing a victim" when there's no proof that there was a victim at all! This situation has bothered me so badly. I thought people had learned from their mistakes of believing things without evidence, but apparently they haven't.
@@syniimon-stix4022you’re correct on how to treat accusations! however i don’t think shelby named anyone so it didn’t feel like an accusation to me?? it seemed like she was just kind of venting, so proof isn’t really a thing that would even come to mind. bare in mind i haven’t watched her content normally, nor any dmsp creators’ so idk how likely they’d be to guess the sleuthing skills of their fans. Edit: ignore what i said! apparently shelby couldn’t name wilbur but wanted to. legal reasons.
Not exactly relating to the conversation but talks about the internet and about content creators being accused of being for this example lesbophobic. As a lesbian I find it cringe when people comment, "____ creator is lesbophobic" when it's a joke that they made 4 years ago. The creator I'm referencing hasn't made a joke in that nature in years. I have a rule of thumb if its been years and they aren't currently doing said things, it shouldn't count as in people make mistakes. If it's been 2 years and over, then it's cold tea.
@@baconbot62 Yeah it's dumb. They brought it up. I probably made some edgy ass jokes as a kid yet I don't feel the need to beg for forgiveness 5 years later, if someone were to bring it up id probably had forgot what the joke even was by that point.
Omg this. If someone did something *years* ago, and hasn't been doing it consistantly between that point and the present, it shouldn't be relevant. It gets on my nerves when people bring up things from years ago for no reason
One thing that I think more people should do: ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE. I've seen it recently where people will just see that there are any receipts whatsoever and take it at face value without considering whether or not that evidence actually proves what the accuser is claiming. Sometimes I see messages that very obviously have context cut out. Not to name names, but I saw a doc recently where one of the screenshots showed sexual comments made by the accused towards the accuser, and the first message was "omg yes please" or something to that effect, and my immediate first though was "what was that in response to, and why did you not include the context?" it drives me CRAZY when i see people saying "the evidence looks so real..." but then when i look at the "evidence", it just doesn't line up with the claims and looks like mostly normal conversation. like, yeah, you could absolutely be a victim here and what you're saying could be true, but you're really not doing a good job at showing it and i have seen false allegations almost ruin people's careers too many times over the past decade that i just cannot take you at your word when you explain the context that would make this otherwise innocuous conversation incriminating without anything to back it up.
As a guy who’s been SA’d and CSA’d before when I was younger, I’m terrified of being accused. I’ve been in therapy for about 6 years now to cope with the PTSD. I’ve been in the gallows myself and very much know what happens to someone if they go through that. I couldn’t imagine the horror of being falsely accused of something like that.
Unfortunately I know what's it's like for something bad to happen and not have any evidence. I was a kid and deleted all my messages with the bad person out of shame. I'm just glad that person is inactive now. It sucks, but I knew I couldn't make the accusation because testimony alone shouldn't condem people for it. It sucks, but just keep that information in mind for the future. Don't delete stuff out of shame like I did. Follow what Mali said in her video about gathering evidence when you've realized what happened to you. Be careful out there.
Hey, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I hope you're doing okay and taking care of yourself. When I was fourteen I had no real evidence either. He had left a few marks on my body but I didn't want to think about them so my mind tried to push them out. I tried to be nice to him the day after it happened but I got scared in the middle of the store and blocked him. I was taken out of class a week or two later and interrogated by police. All they could go off of was my word that day. I understand now that while it happened to me, with only word of mouth, the detective couldn't know for sure if it was true. He is a free man today with a wife and two children. It's obviously too late for me to do anything, and even if I could still go after him, I would choose not to. I just haven't really looked into the specific limitations because I didn't want to tear a family apart, even though something did happen it feels too late now for me. I just try to make my peace w/ it now. Once again I hope you are doing okay lately. I hope you have a beautiful support system around you and things you really enjoy doing. I 100% agree with trying to gather evidence when you've realized what happened to you. It will help you immensely the more evidence you have
If it's criminal and within statute of limitations you may still be able to get legal help. Websites usually hold onto data like messages for a very long time, long after you delete them, and if it's a criminal case they can be forced to give that information to the police
@@mikwolf2236 hm, I may check that out. It was on deviantart and the account it was on (my account, theirs still seems to be up) was also deleted, but maybe something can be brought up. I believe the account was deleted 4 years ago, I dunno if the web site would still be holding that info.
I fully practice "wait and don't jump either party while keeping a healthy distance from the accused" though I will say the moment someone throws the genuinely emotionally manipulative narrative of "support victims you lose nothing from doing so and if it turns out to be false you also lose nothing" and "staying neutral is the same as supporting abusers" I immediately become suspicious of whoever is making the accusations. So far that gut feeling has not failed me which is disheartening
It's such an us vs them mentality. I remember when one of my first real mutuals or "fandom friends" dropped and blocked me the literal minute I started considerign the oppostite perspective of a fandom controversy we were both really invested in. It hurt at the time, but I think I'm ultimatly better off without a person so stuck in their own ways. They were pretty unacceptably rude to a lot of peolple, and it was easy to think it's ok when you have the mindet of "well those people have the _bad_ opinion."
Wish I'd had this when a group of people falsely accused me of racism, pedophilia, rape apologizing, etc and I fell into such a bad depression for three months my therapist labelled me as "clinical". I made the mistake of saying I'd go to the supreme court and police for slander, which only made things worse. Now half of those people are being accused themselves and have been outed, but I still have that deep anger left in me for what they did because they didn't like me.
What probably angers me the most is when people start acting up because the accused hasn't adressed the accusations yet after a few days. But when they rush out a video and the quality suffered from it people call them out for rushing out a bad vid??
Twitter users are not worth paying attention to, you're clearing your name in front of the broader internet and doomscrolling after being called out won't ever help the situation.
A lot of internet discourse, especially twitter discourse is purely reactionary. A lot of times people will not think about their tweets or what they imply and just say what first comes to mind. This is how we get inconsistencies like this.
I would like to add about NOT going to Twitter first. Gather every bit of evidence you can BEFORE saying anything publicly. If you announce your intentions publicly that just gives them time to erase, delete or otherwise hide any evidence they may have
"Hands off the keys!" Yes! Before I got to the "Accused" segment, I began thinking that it's probably not a good idea to start making decisions when your brain is in fight or flight mode. And this is coming from someone who was dealing with a crippling level of anxiety the past few months.
Honestly for me,if I heard someone accused my idol on doing something. I just decided to distance away from them and didn't watch their stuff due to trust issues and just focuses on my life. I'm glad I still did that.
My sister was falsely accused as a content creator and had to go to the police to sort it out. Sending the twitter mob after anyone even if there is evidence isn’t the move. People die over this stuff, she was proven innocent and I miss her greatly.
The "always believe victims" mentality that some parts of the internet hold does end up screwing over content creators sometimes, on the other hand it's common for people to side with the accused just because they like that person more (I've seen the latter happen irl when the person did actually do what he was being accused of, hell I witnessed some of the stuff he did when I wasn't the actual victim) False accusations make the lives of actual victims trying to speak out harder since they're more likely to be dismissed, hell the person accusing that dude was straight up told that they were making the lives of "real victims" harder when they were telling the truth. They also got harassed at school and online over it. In terms of situations where someone's getting accused of something like that online you really need to wait for both parties to say something, and regardless you shouldn't harass people! Even if the accused did do a lot of horrible shit, even if the accuser really is just making it up for clout or whatever, just block the person, it's literally a single button press and it's free, and I know it's harder to avoid the person in real life but that still doesn't mean you should go after them. Also if you go after someone on the behalf of someone else, you're not going to be the one who pays for that, it's going to find its way back to whoever you're trying to defend and they'll be blamed for it instead, making their life worse.
The worst part is, now day it is not about believing victims and taking bad people accountable. It’s about you appearing morally superior because you aren’t supporting a possible bad person. It’s only about you. The individual you are. Who cares if someone is getting accused without basis for it, who cares if a victim might get justice or not? They just want moral superiority, they just want moral correctness for themselves.
If we want proof that "guilty until proven innocent" is the worst system imaginable, just play a bit of Ace Attorney and see how hard it is to be a defense lawyer. Everything is stacked against you and the system is rigged against the accused. I truly believe the saying *_"it's better to let a few bad eggs go free than to let an innocent man rot in jail"_*
@@anneo8393so you're okay with the bad egg harming more people? And victims not getting justice .The system is rigged against the victims not the abusers
I’ll never forgive people for just completely flipping sides on Kwite after a single random google doc, giving him no time to respond before all collectively agreeing that he’s evil. Funny that the people on TikTok calling him a r-pist, an abuser and an over all terrible human being went SILENT after his response
Accusations are also definitely being used as an avenue of abuse now, Quinton reviews had this happen to him, one of this ex employees and fans had been sexually harassing him for months and when he finally told her she needs to stop contacting him she accused him of sexually harassing her and of bad employment practices
It’s like the story of “The boy who cried wolf”. Soon people will keep telling “lies” that will get others to stop believing them and when a real situation nobody will believe them. Edit: haha love that Ponder Sprocket said it too!
I haven't been keeping up with these situations completely but from what I've seen after the Wilbur abvse accusations people took advantage to jump other minecraft youtubers and none of that was credible. Absolutely disgusting some would stoop so low as to get back on people by falsely claiming SH and R. Only thing that does is make people believe actual victims less.
Yeah but that backfires on real victims as well, when you keep seing fake accusations, it's difficult to recognize a real one. The people who lie don't hurt only themselves, they hurt the real victims.
@@anitaremenarova6662 agreed, in an ideal world, the situation would backfire only on the liars but it doesn't, it probably backfires on almost everyone but the liar.
I was emotionally abused and stalked by my ex. I've stayed silent on their identity on the internet because I feel like I don't have enough evidence to convince people what they did to me. It hurts, because they stalked and emotionally abused my friend after I was done with them. I can't warn anyone about them because people may think I'm crazy. This video has convinced me there's nothing I can do but just live with this knowledge.
Not entirely true. This video is more specific to people taking accusations public. If you have someone who is harassing and stalking you, (been there, it sucks), you are still completely able to tell your story to other people. Especially those in your immediate circles seeing as they're the people you're most likely to even want/need to tell. Just be aware that the way people receive stories like this will change drastically between private/personal spaces and online spaces, especially if you dont bring anything other than a story. In regards to evidence of bad behaviour from a stalker or ex, you'd want to get screenshots of conversations, proof of their stalking (this can be excessive phone calls, showing up where you live, creating multiple accounts to evade blocks, things like that) or any other records you might have depending on the nature of their behaviour. best of luck.
Remember there is room for nuance. When people make false allegations, the people they hurt are people like you. Attacking the accused without evidence is awful, but calling someone a liar without evidence that they’re lying is also awful
My advice: time does not matter if your able to gather evidence. Remember what happened with Mick Gordon, it took him years to adress the accusations about his work on Doom Eternal, but he brought the evidence and proved that not only were they false but that he had in fact been the victim of a terrible employer.
As a small creator one of my biggest fears is to end up in either side of an accusation because I'm super emotional and I would probably be digging up my own grave as soon as I'd start speaking up lol. Because of that I've been stupidly avoiding male content creators and even hesitating to answer messages from minors asking for art advice. I know it's probably not rational anymore at this point but welp 💀 This video is honestly like a breeze of fresh for me, you gave really good advices and it helped me temper the worries down. Thanks a lot!! 💖
Step one, of being on the receiving end of major accusations... get a lawyer; step two, don't speak about said accusation; step three, show receipts after gathering; step four, profit.
Yeah I edit my messages for typos. So when my screenshots were used to prove my innocence, the accuser lied and claimedi had deleted things I never said. Lesson learned. This video is on point. Going through accusation and the stack of your character is bewildering, frustrating, and heart breaking. So much truth and great advice here! Thank you!
"if you ask for evidence that makes you complicit in the thing this person is being accused of". Real things i've heard at times. How are we supposed to side against someone if the only thing we're told is "believe every word we say without solid evidence and if you want proof that means you're calling us liars and siding with a monster".
As part of "Exit out of spite gang", I should let you know that the creator studio lets you see what percentage of viewers leave at any given point in the video, which would be interesting to see here, but usually it's in the first few minutes anyways, so in this instance there'd be multiple variables to the drop-off. And leaving a comment helped your engagment more than clicking off hurt it, so you're welcome.
I love that we had Mali Malware, Streamline workshop, Ponder sprocket, Calimari and Duchess Celestia in the same video, they all had the best take on this situation and I'm glad this was released around a time a certain UA-camr I won't name has been accused of stuff along the lines of what was used as examples here. It's honestly best not to engage and only spread awareness when the claims have been confirmed in full either way.
as someone who's been through hell and back with false allegations, they absolutely ruined me dawg. even worse was it was my friend group of like 7 years who did it only like 8 months later, i'm starting to get in a better headspace, but it's still really hard every day. it's so hard to trust anyone or anything at all bro
Yeah honestly, when you're close to them and they're your friends, that's when it really cuts deep. It's been a year and a half and I'm only recently getting over serious depression because someone I was in love with who made horrendous false accusations because they were mad at me for... being insecure? I literally don't even know what it was.
@@anneo8393 absolutely, i was so down to spend the rest of my life with these people only for them to go and do this, partially having to do with an ex of mine as well. i litr cried for days, it hits like a truck out of thin air
the way this video came into my recommended while i was genuinely considering publicly posting about a semi popular streamer who deeply hurt me as a child. it really helped me put stuff into perspective so thank you so much
That's rough, I hope you're doing alright now. Sadly you need either rock solid evidence or a genuine re-telling of your story on camera to have people believe you since you're always fighting an uphill battle when accusing people with established audiences.
@@anitaremenarova6662 i'm doing much better, thank you... i doubt i would ever be able to get enough evidence to make his fans happy bc skype doesn't keep logs (at least it didn't in 2013) and i don't have the same computer anymore. i can only prove that i knew him, really.
@@snailcheeseyoutube what do you mean by this? i don't want to tell my story because i don't have evidence for it and i'd rather not be chewed up and spat out by his fans over it. he was large enough to get featured on channel frederator back in the day. i'm not gonna take that risk with nothing to prove my case.
@@angela.i.2364 I'm so sorry it's horrible that people have created this environment where victims are shut down, particularly the creator of this video
1, Love the name and the design. Very good stuff. 2. Love the video. This is the most "LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK" I've ever watched. Pretty much covered everything I've been saying for years
People just need to stop accusing/canceling other people just for views and money. Also we as a community need to stop giving these people said attention and money. Treat them like you would a four year old throwing a tantrum because their parents wouldn't let them eat a cookie before dinner, just ignore them until they get tired and realize throwing a fit isn't working.
I remember when I just started watching Illuminaghti and she did her 'callout' video, but I had been watching Click already before it so I was like "Okay Imma wait for his response" and boom problem solved. I dislike how fast these 'accusations' could get out of hand though especially if the accused takes longer to make a response, imaginations go wild when the internet mob decides to hate you
This reminds me of a time a while back when I was in a Discord server and some drama went down. I didn’t fully know what happened but someone was accused of being a creep and that person was kicked. I never took a side in the drama because I didn’t feel informed enough to know what the truth was, but the server mods, who had been part of the drama, ended up banning me because I refused to take part in the name-calling and bad-mouthing of the person they had banned. It’s entirely possible that that person genuinely had been a creep, and I’m not in contact with anyone from that server anymore. I have no way of knowing what things would have been like if I had had more context, but I stand by the way I handled the whole thing.
I think you made the right call. They completely gave into the Discord mod stereotype. It appears that person was just ostracized by the server and you were banned for not joining in.
It's crazy that it almost perfectly describes what my friend went through some time ago. While they made minor mistakes, the callout was deliberately disingenuous in such way to insinuate they were a ped0. They got kicked out with no way to defend themselves. Anyone in the serv who didn't uncritically agree with the accusations got banned too. It turned into such a terrible shitshow and, needless to say, had a very bad impact on my buddy. I wonder how many petty forced dramas like that happen, leaving the accused with trauma to work through. I applaud you for acting reasonably, I wish more people were like that.
May I ask; would that server happen to have been a FNaF server? I believe I remember something similar to that happening around late 2022, but idk if it was the actual exact situation or not.
@@moldypaw6134 Forced dramas happen way more often than you think like that just because a mod or admin in my case don't like someone. It happens more so to autistic people as well as not being able to tell social cues and that is even worse with text because no tone body language or anything to help know what the other person means. Often times autistic people get labeled as creeps when they are not trying to be especially when they are teenagers In my case it was even more ironic that the server was supposed to be a safe place. The only thing i will say is that it was a League of Legends server which says everything as the league community is fucking toxic. After that i just stopped joining discord servers pretty much and i am too hesitant on joining any. This happened about 5 or so years ago probably sometime around season 9 of league of legends even if it was later stage of season 9. Not saying i was a teen btw, i forgot to make that clear but that it just happens to autistic teens more often
Honestly, i have my gripes with Dream, but one thing that got me a lot of respect for him was how he handled his controversy with the girl who accused him. He took his time, didnt feed the twitter mob, gathered evidence, and shut her down in like a few weeks once he felt ready. People who still call Dream a weirdo still are mostly just uninformed and dont watch him anyways, or the twitter mob. I have a lot of gripes with him as i said, but i feel like he handled that better than any other male influencer who was falsely accused (except maybe kwite). But it does suck that we have to go so far to disprove accusations that have barely any evidence backing them. It's legitimately scary.
and then he threw that all away by throwing wilbur under the bus when the accusations against him came out with no evidence, and then he did a twitter space crying about george and saying to support caiti when she made false accusations against him and later deleted and privated everything.
10:59 That rant felt really good to hear. Like what do you mean "trust"!? You can't trust anyone. There are UA-camrs who had their squeaky clean names tarnished because of their actions so many times. You don't know these people. Don't trust them with nearly anything. Now, this isn't to say that you have to have the idea that the creator isn't trustworthy at the back of your mind when you watch the content. Just keep in mind that these people are strangers. The difference between a UA-camr and someone you see on the street is that the former broadcasts themselves. Anyway, I do like the mini section on the topic of people actually affiliated with the accuser. Friendship is a powerful thing and of course the first thing a friend will do is side with their friend when they speak of terrible news. No actual friend is gonna be like "pics or it didn't happen" unless they're weird. It's hard to look for evidence when you want to support a friend, it's also hard to just cut all contact with someone who's done something wrong even if anyone else doing the action would attract their disgust.
thank you, oh i am so tired of children/manchildren these days claiming that anyone who made them uncomfortable was abusing them and everyone just consumes that accusation uncritically. especially if they were assholes to a trauma survivor or disabled person, and then labeled the victims impulsive reaction to being picked on as harassment towards them.
ProJared and Pyrocynical are perfect examples of this. I’ve been watching Jared for a decade and Pyro for 8 years respectively and what happened to Jared in 2019 (the same year of happened to Slazo who I also like) and Pyro in 2020 were a very rough time for me as a fan of theirs. I stood by them for I had my suspicions and my instincts told me that there’s more to the stories than just the allegations and there was a lack of evidence on the side of the accusers. And when they released their response videos owning up to what they did admit to doing wrong and debunking the false accusations against them, it confirmed my suspicions that they were innocent victims of they were falsely accused of. As a survivor of SA and a woman myself, it always upsets me that male victims of abuse don’t get taken equally as seriously as female victims of abuse and making up a abuse story to hurt them for the sake of revenge and clout really grinds my gears. It not only hurts real victims like me, but it also further hurts the already tarnished reputations of the falsely accused. Also, the right thing to do if people who are victims of abuse, is to simply call the many hotlines that deal with abuse and exploitation, or reach out to their families, friends, and local authorities to settle it in private with the accused, then talk about it publicly after the litigations are done. Not let everything out on public online forums, that’s a last resort (Lionmaker’s and Mini Ladd’s victims did that properly). What the false accusers did to Jared and Pyro (as well as Slazo, Kwite, Vinny Vinesauce, Chuggaconroy, etc.) is disgusting and that’s something I can’t and won’t forgive. A lot of people who were originally in Jared’s fan base and friend/collab group didn’t reach out to him for his side, sided with the false accusations, and ostracized themselves as a result of that. I wholeheartedly agree that if people were to leave their parasocial feelings and biases out and be objective, the internet would be a much better place for everyone. Great job Mali, nice homage to Internet Comment Etiquette as well. He’s a good dude.
Man! I haven't been around this channel for a while! Glad I came back since it seems it's growing a bit. Honestly all of us could use a Mali since if any of you haven't been watching the... recent events we need some funny or advice.
I look at" believe the victim" to mean to be aware if someone is vulnerable to an aggressor. It doesn't mean anyone needs to take sides. If someone is being dog piled on the internet after an acusation, they are in a vulnerable position, and the dog pile becomes an aggressor. Don't dog pile on someone you don't know about other people's business. If there was a bad falling out, and one person is talking sh*t about the other, but they're separated, and no one is in danger, that's just drama.
Hello, Was accused of being a creep/groomer/pedo. Got my accounts hacked, identity stolen, etc. Everyone believed it. Almost died from it. 0/10 wouldn't recommend doing this to anyone. Not fun.
Not only have I avoided art commentary communities because of accusations like this but just, art community in general. People don't seem to realize that the art community is actually pretty competitive. A community is made, but at the same time there are people that want to take control of a community or want to be "the one choice" when it comes to art and animation. I have seen people who just don't like someone, so they search for something problematic they said in the past and blow it out of proportion. In my opinion, any side could be a victim. We don't know the full story unless we see all the evidence and proof, but automatically supporting the accusers does not help the situation. The accusers decide when they're ready to talk about a serious situation, the accused usually aren't ready. They have no choice, no time, and no decision except to show their side ASAP. Which usually becomes a rushed mess of evidence that they can collect with what they have NOW. No time, no way to defend themselves, just a bunch of angry people wanting to take them down over the word of a stranger. Accusers definitely can be right, but they could also be wrong. Abusers lately have been using callout docs to take down people they want to ruin. It happens... and I'm tired of people ignoring that. There is reality to consider, and reality is unfair, unjust, and cruel. We don't know who a person is truly, especially online.
this.... is put better then I could've, thank you and well done. If I ever have someone I know who needs this video I hope this site dosn't sink before then so I can use this to help them
I'm honestly shocked yet inspired by how people like you, and the other youtubers (Celestia, Cali Mara, Ponder, & Workshop) are brave enough to say what needs to be said. While also remaining level headed and avoiding being condescending. I might not have a following. But you inspired me a while back with your video over aging up characters for shipping/ explicit purposes. Since then. I've been digging around the internet for a year in preparation to make a video over the subject (as well as the topic of media literacy) myself. I'm still honestly nervous.
On an unrelated note: I just saw an instance of someone (kind of) making an accusation without proper proof. It was over shipping stuff. They did very obviously biased research, and basically said that *_all_* pro-shippers are weirdos and should turn themselves to jail. And like you said. We're all strangers on the internet. We don't know the other person behind the screen nor their *real* intentions. And while the world is a scary place. Unless we have evidence of the person who we're *suspecting* , committing or outwardly endorsing, harmful/ vile behavior. Then we just don't have a proper case. And thus, should *not* try to pass it off as them actually doing something illegal. Like I get that the person who said that is normally sarcastic. But it was a serious topic and shouldn't have been brushed off so brazenly. Prison sentences can easily ruin someone's *_entire_* life.
@@marcosortega3350 Online harassment, doxxing, death threats, ect. So online/ public reception worries me, especially on the off chance that the video randomly gets tons of views. I mean, another reason for me wanting to make it is partially due to how the drama around the topic made me feel back in 2020-2022. I was afraid of going outside. Constantly worrying about potentially being a threat to teens and younger kids. I paid attention to how I felt when minors were around. Took me a while to realize that, no, I don't feel "that kind of way" around them. In fact. After going through that, I kind of started to hate the company of kids and teens.
I don’t know you but thaaank you for this video. It’s so nice to see someone being reasonable about this for once. The way people on Twitter typically behave about this kind of thing makes me feel insane
one time some guy said i was trying to break into victims spaces (discord servers) so i (14 year old) could attack them. This is because i joined a server with differing opinions on shipcourse from me. They had no images or evidence and just Said that. I tried dming them about it but they ignored me because Im an "edgy freshman". The other person in the conversation has sexually assaulted people with multiple google docs and screenshots and everything to back it up. They did not recieve any repercussions. What?
Oh wow another smart person asking the right questions I've been asking. No one ever shows their evidence for all these allegations/accusations. Glad someone finally made a video about this topic, thank you.
I was accused of being a thing from someone I once thought as a friend because we would hangout to play the same games together and we enjoyed it. Her reasoning was because I liked the game Andy and Leyley despite not even owning it or actually even playing it, I just watched yt videos on it and enjoyed it, though she didn't know this and I just said I liked the game. Made me stress out and cry because the internet is guilty until proven innocent. Then when I blocked her because I didn't want to deal with any of it, her friend went onto my stream and accused me of being that thing because I blocked her. I remembered trying to hold back tears man during the stream and thinking about not wanting to do streaming again because it hurts man. Something enjoyable has become stressful because someone accuses you of being a thing over a game, and since you know internet mentality you know they would dump on you and come after you regardless of how stupid the reasoning behind it is. It made me so stressed and everything. I absolutely hate people who falsly accuse. Its not fun and its not a game.
i wish this video was around back in 2017 when i was literally banned and ostracized from half of the modded minecraft community for a whole litany of things that never happened and i was never involved in.
I'd say "trust but verify" would most apply to someone you actually trust. Verify, then trust, would be more accurate for strangers. As for friends and family, both supporting them and seeking evidence is a good strategy, because that also means you're helping them support their claim by making sure they're prepared. Though I have been called a sociopath for this before and I will absolutely own it.
I just wanna say thank you you for making this video, I’ve been falsely accused of something in the past by a kid who didn’t meant to cause harm and I don’t see a lot of things about victims of false accusations so it really helps. I hope you’re having a wonderful day onwards
@@flechiir They can leave the family members who’ve sided with the liar behind. Or if that doesn’t work, they can change their last name to distance themselves from their family who’ve abandoned them.
Another important thing: accusations are not the end of the world, and if those who accused don't believe you or ignore your evidence - there will be those who will. Stick with them. The people on the other side are trying to ruin your life, if they see that instead you got a better one - they will back off.
The history of the accused is a rarely talked about topic. If the accused is being accused of harrasment and they have a history of prior accusations or content related to the topic, they have a higher likelihood of being guilty.
"content related to the topic"? What, do you think liking horror movies is evidence that supports the notion of someone being a murderer? And that's not how truth works. Someone being accused repeatedly isn't evidence the accusations are true. It's evidence people hate this person which could be tall poppy syndrome or trying to silence a truth teller or anything else. If people want to tear someone down for making them look bad they're going to keep throwing things at the wall and sooner or later something will stick. And if one person hates you odds are there's plenty more. If you are sensitive to sound or are bad with faces you will be accused of being racist repeatedly. This has no correlation whatsoever to whether you actually are racist--but if someone is continually punished for something they didn't do, they're going to lose all reason not to do it.
@@amazinggrapes3045 I'm not saying it means that it's true, just that if enough people are saying that they did something at different times, then it is more likely to be true
This video makes me feel like I'm in 6th hour Health, the teacher is tired and disappointed, and now she's just lecturing the class about how to be decent people, all the while crayons are flying across the room. I love it lol
![Rebornica: The Cancelled FNAF Artist [ft Ponder Sprocket]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GK53Eoqq-po/mqdefault.jpg)
I missed my own premier. Idiot woman. X_X
Good thing there’s live chat replays
Lord I agree with most of the video but calling the blatant and objective fact that feelings do not equal facts "nonsense" was just pointless wrong for no reason other than "this is a popular saying on the side of my political opposition, therefore it is incorrect". Like separating the quote from Shapiro (who for the record I am absolutely not a fan of), it's just factual. It's not "nonsense", the fact that we can't separate "facts" from "feelings" is a huge part of why this whole callout epidemic is even happening.
Anyway, liked the video, just that one thing bugged me.
Yeah, that might be bad wording on my part.
I was referring to how sometimes 'facts are not feelings' is used as a dismissal of conversation/opinion in and of itself. It's a little bit like how data doesn't tell a story on its own we give it a narrative with context and bias. The facts are not feelings remark is similar to that and very rarely provides actual input to a conversation and usually the person asserting it just dresses their own subjective feelings up as 'fact' therein making the statement completely hollow.
Because yes, obviously facts are not feelings. But the way people express their thoughts/opinions/observations is not inherently useless. That or the comment is just used to be callous or dismissive without putting any work into explaining why someone's feelings aren't factual.
Even now I'm not sure I'm explaining it well, I guess I just don't like any blanket statements that shut down conversation.
But yeah, feeling some way about something doesn't make it so. Sorry if the shit wording made it come across otherwise.
@@Kutaloo Yes absolutely, but you have to recognize that many opinions dictated by emotions are taken as facts by that side of the aisle, they often are not receptive when confronted with studies, making the saying no more than a hypocritical shutdown of any conversation where they find themselves unable to respond in a coherent nor factual way
@@MaliMalware Sorry I was running on E when I saw this. Yeah That's a lot more reasonable. Thanks for the clarification.
If you've been accused of something relatively minor, such as ruining someone's dream journal, the right course of action is to immediately shout, "I did NAHT!!! Mister Electric, send him to the principal's office and have him EXPELLED!!!"
Best comment
Omg I love this comment, I must rewatch now
And expect to get a reply saying "YOURE IN MY CLASS! I KNOW EVERYTHING AND YOU? KNOW NOTHING."
Oh, that’s beautiful 😂
🫱📒
I like the phrase “take victims seriously” instead of “believe all victims” not because victims shouldn’t be believed but because “believe all victims” automatically implies guilt for the accused and doesn’t leave room for new evidence
DING DING DING DING DING. It's almost like what we've been saying this whole fuckin time. Jesus H. Christ.
@@alreadyblack3341 This is the thing there are ppl on both sides that still don't get it
@@voodoovixen666 No, it's definitely accusers taking the absolute fucking piss. Because that's the only way it even becomes an issue. The defenders are autistic, but reactionary. They wouldn't be there if the idiots on the accusation side would shut the hell up and fucking listen. It's so stupid.
Not to mention it leaves open the exploitation of it for malicious purposes
This.
Drives me nuts when I hear people say“You don’t lose anything from a false accusation”
People have quite literally been killed over false accusations. It’s one of the leading arguments against capital punishment
Edit: to clarify I am not just talking about sexual assault. I’m talking about any kind of false accusation
I imagine losing jobs can be added to that list
@@snailcheeseyoutube Celebrities and online influencers are NOT the same. A celebrity can throw money at the problem to cover it up, an online influencer can't.
@@snailcheeseyoutube white women weaponizing their identity to blame men of color of SA is not 0. It’s actually a pretty well-known phenomenon. Its not just women vs men. Race also comes into play, and white women hold that power.
@@arturintete2461 and that's related to my comment how? lmao
@@VOgaming51official you do know influencers earn money too right.....right....? and that an influencer is a TYPE of celebrity...right....right????
This weirdly just reminded me of the time someone was supporting an accuser on twitter, the accused came out with their side of the story basically proving the accuser lied and the person supporting them continued to do so and gave the excuse of "even if it's not true, you have to support victims" as if it hadn't just been proven that the *accused* was actually the victim in that situation.
People are bonkers.
Pleasure to gross you out with my old cracky bones.
*chuckles* Always gives me a giggle when y'all call yourself old. I've tattoos older than Lio, :-)
Oh my FUCKING god, this kind of thing drives me crazy. I remember seeing a tweet with several thousand likes after a similar situation that was like “it’s not our fault, the accuser lied to us, don’t attack anyone who believed them!!!!”
I checked their page and earlier that week they had been in the accused’s replies telling them to 🦐 themselves. Like, oh, of course you don’t want people to attack you over that lol. As if the person weaponizing a callout against their victim MADE them send nasty messages to that person. No, honey, that’s all on you, and you have to deal with the guilt of knowing you attacked someone who was a victim.
Ponder? More like PUNder
I saw that one as well 😭 😭
In all honesty it's best to support victims yeah, but fake victims hurt real ones 😭
Shouldn’t you guys talk about lio and peaches? I’m not really part of this community but grew up watching some of you guys (art commentary people) videos, and accidentally heard about it….it’s like really bad….no matter anyone’s stance I mean, it’s just a bad situation overall.
I don't trust anybody in the Art Commentary Community. That is a circus and everyone has a role.
As someone who's wanted to get into the art commentary community for a while, that desire is completely gone because I can not mentally put myself in a community built on the tearing down of other creators. It's such a toxic community
Hey had a whole 2 year war with each other for next to little reason
So glad that I am so small and unknown artist, that no one cares lmao
@@ororomunroe8170 as an extremely old internet fossil (got online in like 2002, on the slowest dial-up you can imagine using rural phone lines) when I invent a time machine I'm taking you to 2007 and the thriving early youtube days of speedpaints and video responses to said speedpaints with other speedpaints of the characters/series, you sound like that's where you wanted to be at.
Just have a quick question, it might be silly in retrospect, but at this moment, I’m genuinely looking for some kind of definitive, or close to definitive answer to this:
Is it possible to do something you like, and share it online, without involving yourself in a related community? Like if you make art commentary, but don’t want to engage with the community, and just make videos for yourself and your own audience?
Another thing to remember (as an audience member), you can distance yourself from the accused without boasting the accuser (in cases without evidence). When the kwite situation happened I distanced myself from him channel, there was no proof for either side, and I wasn’t going to support either without evidence, I didn’t watch his old content, and kept myself updated on the situation, but I didn’t go bashing anyone, I didn’t claim either as correct, and didn’t boost the accuser. I watched from the sidelines till we had evidence. It’s okay to do that, it’s not a moral failing.
Edit: I feel the need to add this, but Ive watched the harm it can cause to communities and people by being part of communities that didn't (although I didn't post or comment I can't pretend I didn't make quick judgement in the past), I was part of multiple communities that have absolutely burned crashed and are never coming back the same cause of this (art commentary 2020-2022, mental health awareness communities 2020, gacha 2018-2023).
A thing that I have continuously failed over and over to the point where redemption is out of reach for me.
@@nevaehhamilton3493 Me two...
Exactly
You failed though, by behaving differently you helped negatively impact the accused.
Engagement is a metric that effects accused's videos and recommendation. It sounds minor but remember a lot of people have assumed guilty, so you're unintentionally adding onto it. This basically means if the accused tries to do anything, release videos as promised, ect, they are screwed over. Their potential job can't earn any money.
This is why false accusations work so well, even if you lose you get to laugh at how the accused got screwed over and many people won't come back while they lost viewership and relevance for a time.
The accused is going to take a hit no matter what, so supporting their content till things are proven is the only way to not add onto the damage and best way to mitigate it limiting false accusations.
Innocent till proven guilty exists for a reason, because if you don't treat them as innocent till proven otherwise damage is done.
@@Dragoonsoul7878 UA-camrs don't deserve our viewership for any reason. We watch them because we like watching the personalities behind them and the content they produce. If we don't feel comfortable about one or the other, we aren't going to watch that content anymore. That is a personal choice, not a career ending one.
I will add to the conversation that there’s abusers who have begun weaponizing callout docs against their own victims to take away their power. Please be aware of this anytime you read a doc online, especially if the accused seem afraid of the accuser(s).
How does that work? Can you elaborate?
@@anton.s6882Basically they act as if they are the victims
@@anton.s6882It's pretty simple. The abuser will for whatever reason get a whiff that their victim(s) is about to post a public document, or maybe they're just paranoid or arrogant, regardless, what they will do is to post a document to pre-empt the victim in an attempt to smear their reputation, so that when the victim actually DOES post their side of the story, everyone will have already been tainted by the abuser's lies.
Usually this happens especially if the abuser is the one with a large audience, and their victim is a smaller creator/not a creator at all.
This is something I'm absolutely mortified of happening to me because my ex was a vindictive piece of shit obsessed with the animator Birdie's drama and inserted himself into any drama he could. It's been 3 years and I'm still scared. Please be vigilant and try to do research on those who are called out and the accusers.
There is a person who is heavily disliked by people in the Splatoon community and I made a drive displaying the crap he did, but never made it free for everyone to see because of this and the risk of the drama being sensationalized like every other art drama that’s been talked about. I send the drive to those who ask for the sake of awareness. The guy accused me of planning to make a video calling him out, but know how he is like, with lying and slander, twisting the truth, bullying, manipulation, it’s not gonna happen.
It's baffling how we went from 'support victims' to 'guilty until proven guilty'.
Then they wonder why actual victims stay quiet. What a mystery!
its insane how much these false accusers are actually hurting the future of actual victims. i have a strong feeling that im gonna wind up in the crosshairs of someone in particular whos also manipulative and toxic and would go out of their way just to ruin my life, and i dont know how to prevent it while still keeping said toxic person out of my life.
People have died from this. A COD cosplayer literally committed the unthinkable on stream because 2 girls gave false accusations. Not only did we lose a wonderful person, but its now getting impossible for real victims to be believed.
I remember that. Horrible situation that was. 😭
The Jay Cheshire case in the K is notably tragic. 17 years old when he took his life after baseless accusation by a classmate that was later reducted, worse still his Mother Karin took her life a year later on the anniversary of his death. These baseless accusations don't just hurt the accused but also their friends. family and colleagues of the falsely accused who are left to pick up the pieces.
Is there any proof?
Any proof of what? The COD cosplayer Inquisitor took his life on stream, and the people who accused him said they did bc he didnt like him, and that he avtually didnt do anything
Don't forget the Night in the Woods dev, Alex Holowka, where the accuser was a known liar, yet his co-devs _and_ sister took the accuser's side, and by the time people were starting to realize the whole thing was bogus, he had already killed himself.
What kinda sucks too is that if you were rightfully accused of something you literally won’t be allowed to change or get better
Yeah, unfortunately this developmemt will probably have to come after we finally get the internet to stop trying to destroy people over just an accusation. You are absolutely right though. Even if someone did do something wrong I think it's important to NOT ostracize them if it was obviously a one off or they are working on themselves. (This does not apply to people who are chronically shitty though. They need professional help)
It really sucks. We make mistakes as we grow, and while mere apologies often mean little when someone is called out, we should grant them the chance to prove their sincerity.
Some acts, like grooming, rape, and murder, ate much harder to forgive, and even harder for the person to redeem themselves from. However the Atrius situation, where he made a huge mistake, is unforgiven despite him donating over $60k to taking down the deepfake porn sites that got him in trouble, than I think it’s worth giving him respect. At least his actions.
Of course people labeled this as “damsge control”. Meanwhile the people who don’t try to redeem themselves are labeled “not actually sorry”. You just can’t win online
@@anneo8393 the ability to change necessitates the want to change. there are people so far up their own ass that it will take their whole lives to figure that out, or a miracle.
@@thefourthdymensionmusic Of course. there's people that just dont want to change. but some do so we should'nt fucking obliterate them 5 years later over it
@@axiolot5857 i had a big comment typed out and i accidentally deleted it so im just gonna say this.
its hard sometimes to figure out if someone wants to change, and its even harder online than it is in person for many reasons, but dont take that statement as me disagreeing with you. youre not wrong, its the internet, people treat people differently online compared to in real life because its easier to detach people from their humanity when all you see is a face and words on a screen and audio coming through a pair of earbuds or your phone speakers. everyone deserves second chances, but nobody deserves a 50th chance.
one thing that kills me is seeing people saying 'believe victims, you stand nothing to lose and they stand everything to gain' when it clearly skirts around the fact that the person being accused could quite literally lose everything. there are entire fields of work where, as soon as somebody says youre an abuser, it becomes infinitely harder to stay with that job.
To clarify, cuz i've realised i said this super poorly. when somebody comes out about being mistreated, you should not believe them straight away. like the video says, keep yourself with an open mind and pay attention to evidence on both sides. because, as someone who has had to deal with multiple false accusations for serious crimes, people who jump to conclusions can ruin everything. remember it is innocent until proven guilty.
I wholly agree! I don't think you've said it poorly (though you probably edited a bit) but either way great comment
@remicohen2438 I have a distinct feeling that one day, all this black and white moral mindset is going to come back to bite these people in the butt in life.
Yes because if you always support the accusers out of a desire to support victims and the accusations are false, the accused is actually the victim in the situation. The Kwite situation is a great example where the accuser was actually the toxic one who mistreated him
And "innocent until proven guilty" also means assume the accuser is innocent of making a bad faith accusation (not equivalent to an untrue accusation, as touched on towards the end of the video) until they're proven guilty. Basically jumping to conclusions in either direction is assuming someone to be guilty until proven innocent ^^;
I mean, that is completely right; They could ruin someone´s life on a whim, theats quite something to gain for them
I had a "friend" who got me kicked out of a roleplay group on Discord after I upset them by saying that them being attracted to Lewis Legend (Lollipop Chainsaw, and their comfort character) didn't make them a monsterfucker because Lewis was technically an undead and acted like a human and looked like a human, nothing monstery looking about him (literally he just looks like a goth with a scar if you didn't have prior knowledge he's a zombie. He's not even rotted.)
To say they were unstable is an understatement- (especially since they relentlessly mocked my comfort character from the same series because he wasn't cute enough to them) they took screenshots that were out of context and photoshopped my username over the out-of-pocket stuff they said and I got kicked. I had to go through to where the conversations were and took FULL screenshots of everything and sent it to the Mod of the server and I as reinstated and they were kicked out, but they also took it to every other social media website.
The funniest thing is that they made the claim I told them to go kill themselves when all I said was for them to Get Bent, and they dead-on went "that's the same as telling me to kill myself!" because they legit had nothing else to try and defame me with.
And this person was not a minor at the time of the incident, they were in their 20s.
Figured they were an adult. If someone goes through that much effort to ruin someone’s life… I think it’s safe to say they’re an adult.
Why is it almost always the adult being the crybaby? do they not have a job?
the monsterfuckers do not claim them
the more i think about it the more i believe the internet should be a privilege
@remicohen2438using trauma as an excuse to terrorise other people is so not ok
I really really really appreciate the “Sxl harassment is not r@pe” point. I’ve been on the receiving end of both, and harassment is shitty, but they’re NOT the same.
it's like the r-words younger sibling
i've been falsely accused of sexual harassment before by a rape victim. it's actually horrifying to experience an accusation like that, for more reasons than one.
Bro literally
One thing about this is that people are very simplistic when it comes to online discourse. You are either a victim, or victimizer. Nuance tends to be thrown out the room, so things like a faulty memory due to potential drug abuse, or things like making false allegations in the middle of defending against false allegations don't matter in the eyes of the people. You are either a princess who needs to be protected, or a witch who needs to be burned at the stake.
Unfortunately, many people will take the gender equality thing by treating men like this. Either condemning them as evil witches who must be burned, or in the case of people like Bill Cosby treated as innocent until the evidence pills up and people can claim that the evidence just came out after so long. Turns out Revolutionary Girl Utena had the right idea, throw gender roles out because they will always have gross undertones regardless of how they are used or subverted.
>"Evidence?"
It came to me in a dream.
Bill Cipher talking mad shit again
There was legit drama like this recently on spiritual tok
How the periodic table was made be like:
The star signs have aligned!
My Source is I made it the fuck up! *Point with extremely muscular forearm, bulging with eldritch nanite growths*
I have come to accuse Mali of cringe.
My evidence: This ham sandwich. It told me the truth.
Edit: Guys, let's make this the top comment.
OK, I believe you.
@@ravenmerchant7151 another one.
You haven't shared much proof. But I kinda like your videos, so you're definitely right
I knew that ham sandwich was a snitch
Hmmm... Well, your sub count is higher than Mali...
I believe you. No evidence needed.
I am a more male-presenting person online, and I have been accused before.
I was accused of using one of those anonymous discord confession bots to harass a minor.
The minor in question was being told to keel themselves, harm themselves, etc via anonymous confession with this bot.
Everyone in the server was amped, they wanted whoever was responsible to be held accountable. The person using the discord bot was copy the way I type, so everyone was at first on me because they thought I the one doing it.
The minor who was being targeted was even saying it was me.
The mods of the server confronted me, and they decided to disable the confession command for me so they could rule me out. They had to rule several other people out until it was only one person left.
In the end, it was the minor sending threats and insults to THEMSELVES and pretending to be me. Their reason? They were jealous.
Thank goodness I didn't talk about it in the server, and whenever asked about it would change topics until the controversy was over.
I had to maintain that I was innocent. That's rule #1. It all cleared up, minor kicked from server, everyone friends with me again. Yippie!
Ngl when things like this happen with those anonymous confession bots I don’t rlly understand why the mods don’t just get rid of the bot immediately or smth
I would have left the server as deep in their minds they still would think it was you even though your name was cleared
I wouldn't wanna be friends with people who were their that gullible and cruel anyway. Then again, most of discord is like that, which is why I don't use it anymore
It's fucking awful that they accused you and a really, really bad example of their character.
wdym by male-presenting
Ya know, I see so much brainrot online. It is a relief to hear someone say what is common sense out loud again. When you feel like our social climate, according to the internet, is just a sea of crazy opinions, logical fallacies, tribalistic biases, cognitive dissonance, and zealotry. Hearing someone voices level headedness, honest compassion(not sociopolitically motivated selective compassion), naunce, due diligence, intellectual honesty, and goodfaith open dialog is a respite for the soul.
"Humanity (partially) Restored"
It feels like drinking a cool glass of water in the A/C after walking for several hours on a midsummer day.
I do feel that a rising form of abuse for men is to publicly accuse and slander them for emotional/ sexual abuse of a partner, friend, or stranger. And while I think there are plenty examples where it's true, there are also a lot of cases (especially on the internet) where it's not. It preys on people's bias towards men, assuming they are always powerful, predatory, and horny. This might be a hot take, but I genuinely do believe this is a form of abuse and sexism which will only be properly recognized decades from now as we reflect on the culture of the present. And while I don't think men are abused domestically more than women are, I also think men are often given a lot less support or care in situations where they are abused. For example, when was the last time people apologized for a false accusation? When was the last time there was really any justice for those people? Often times, it's a permanent smear on their life and their reputation.
And if we continue to tell men that their struggles are lesser due to privilege's it inevitably pushes them to spaces that support them. And the only spaces who will currently acknowledge and care for the struggle of men are the radical groups who believe men are THE MOST abused. The ones who will turn men into bad people who lash out at society for revenge. It's important to recognize victims, and support victims. It's also important to figure out who the victim really is, and acknowledge that abuse is not just physical. And supporting male victims is not a secondary task. Every victim should be supported and believed.
At this point, it's pretty much perpetuating a very NASTY cycle of sexism.
I agree so much!
I agree with this, but honestly I don’t think we treat women victims much better. Abuse all around isn’t taken seriously.
@@rubyred6608760 Yeah, this. Men or women, I haven't seen a lot of people treat the victims of domestic abuse and of false accusations very respectfully.
The former all get dismissed casually if men, as if they don't count, or else their abuser is celebrated for "standing up for themselves" by arseholes, and for the people falsely accused, then their cases get used as gotchas by abusers who want to undermine their own victims and redpill their male audience instead of, y'know, calling out the liar and not assuming an entire group are POSs because ONE of them is?
Actually the whole BS about assuming people are monoliths in general and it's all or nothing on the presence of POSs in the groups is a huge issue online: it causes a shitton of other problems and stops people from thinking on a case by case basis and being willing to call out the arses showing within their group, because they don't want their group to be seen as suffering from rotten apples spoiling the bunch and spoiling the group being the whistleblowers.
This is the definition of the truth, whole truth, and nothing but the truth!
Ah yes, internet mob "justice." Presumed guilty until proven guiltier.
The fact that someone felt the need to make a 40 minute video essay about how someone should go about accusing someone else is just... embarrassing.
Good video tho, well informed, education, and, most of feckin all, I appreciate the lack/refrain of bias. You really just seemed like a teacher of the subject, good work
As someone who's been dealing with false accusations, thank you so much. I really needed this. I've been going nuts trying to figure out what I'm going to do about this, and I'm really glad I didn't rush into a response. Thank you so, so, so much for making this. I personally think everyone on the Internet should watch this video.
Are you alright rn?
No hear me out, let the cats in the twitter war, they’ll distract your enemies as you look over their claims and get the truth. Trust me this definitely works.
The people who scream "You have 24 hours to unfollow X person" right after a 70 page expose document drops will *Not* be happy about this. (lol)
I hope more people listen to the advice given here because (even if all of this seems like common sense) you always see the same people who are the Loudest about "canceling" others online being the same ones making "I may have gotten ahead of myself. I am terribly sorry for making XYZ post. I'll do better in the future" statements before doing everything wrong Over and Over and Over Again.
It’s so annoying because what are they going to do if someone doesn’t unfollow or doesn’t see the post? A random stranger is not going to get lambasted because they happen to follow someone. They aren’t actually involved in the situation so threatening a bunch of internet strangers just doesn’t work. You can’t get mad at someone when you basically give them one day to read an entire document and unfollow the person it’s about. You can at least try to make it digestible for the person reading about it and tell them to look for the accusers’ posts or a document with the claims and evidence if they want more of the details. You never force a time limit onto anyone to make a decision because decisions take time and they need to be able ti breathe and digest the information and all sides before make a decision on the situation.
I love when people accidentally out themselves as chronically online (I say this as someone who has issues with that lol).
Most average people are too busy with just LIFE to take 3 hours out of their day to care about internet controversies. When people post stuff like this, it’s basically just admitting “I stay up until 11am every night on twitter, and I think that’s a healthy thing to do”
@@Nox.x_ART those kinds of people claim they act like this to "spread awareness", but 9 times out of 10 they're simply looking to have a power trip over others so they can be seen as upstanding people in their own tiny social bubbles on the Internet.
@Nox.x_ART I could be wrong but I *think* those posts are usually aimed at mutuals? Wouldn’t surprise me if they were just aimed at the entire internet though lol
Those kinds of posts are why I left Twitter 3 months after making an account, watching a bunch of poor teens be distressed about why 300 of their mutuals unfollowed them and it was all because they hadn’t seen the news about the newest controversy and unfollowed a specific creator yet. Very stupid and probably super damaging to those people’s mental health to be rejected like that out of nowhere
You know I feel bad for people who have BPD and gets involved in this kind of stuff, they tend to get rocked in these situations.
I have BPD, I've been in situations like this... YES IT'S TERRIBLE...
@@xxagaynerdxx same!! it sucks bc someone is trying to weaponize my own bpd as evidence for the accusations!
@@vaniillazilla Yeah that sucks.
me, remembering that time I d*xxed myself after it came out a exfriend who abandoned me was an ab*ser (there was evidence), but the person they hurt came back to them and I fell into a drama hole:
NO YEA FOR REALZIES. Having any disorder that makes you prone to black and white thinking (bpd, moral ocd, autism, etc) is the WORST for stuff like this. I have moral ocd myself and for a couple years of my life I was absolutely sucked down a rabbit hole is making sure everything I enjoyed was "pure" and "good." I'm insanely lucky to have a friend group that helped me develop critical thinking skills and in some cases "separate art from the artist" has been my best friend fr.
Oh my gosh! I remember getting dog piled on a post because I said I’m not going to dump any of my friends or family if someone just merely accuse them of something. Got called a fake feminist, one of the mods muted me so I couldn’t even defend myself while I was getting dragged (silenced a woman and let her get bullied on a supposed woman’s group. Wish I could say that isn’t typical), etc.
The relating post was about how you should believe the accuser and disown friends and family, even without evidence. Just on their word alone. Insanity.
One of replies to me even said, “What’s she supposed to show you?? Her bloody underwear?? Her ripped v@gina??” Hello, did somebody say bad faith argument?
As a grape (remove the g) survivor, it is INSANE to expect people to cut off part of their support group from an accusation alone. That is insanity and could easily be weaponized by an abuser-which I know ‘cause that happened to me in high school. Someone accused all of my friends of SA and I felt pressured to believe them since I was a survivor myself and big on supporting fellow survivors.
It was only when they started accusing random students that I JUST started getting friendly with that I cut them off and reported them. Was left without a support group because those former friends understandably did not want to rebuild those burned bridges.
Is this a rare situation? Yes, but those vile people still exist and ARE willing of weaponizing the “believe all victims” rhetoric to isolate their victims.
It’s okay to support accusers of friends and family, but you are also not the bad guy for expecting evidence if they expect you to cut off a loved one for them. Support groups are precious and your main line of defense against abusers.
It's also very important how the accusations are presented. It's really difficult to fake emotions when it comes to this sort of stuff so only believe people who tell you in person or other visual medium.
you would be a fake feminist yes
Thank you for sharing. I see that a lot and it's important to be impartial, and seeing a survivor doing it is inspiring
@@anitaremenarova6662 but also remember that 1) some people are really good actors, and people who have a lot of privilege are more likely to both be able to fake emotions convincingly and to make false accusations against people lower on the social hierarchy than them to begin with, 2) a lot of mentally disabled people (i say as a mentally disabled person myself) can't express emotions in "normal" ways and might seem like we're lying when we're not or not seem emotional over anything at all even when we're really upset, and you might not know someone is mentally disabled even if you know them really well (a lot of us go undiagnosed, even)
People like this are not victims or victim support groups, they are very poorly disguised abuser groups.
I do think what you should do first when you’ve been falsely accused is to just say that you are working on a response and nothing more
Basically so people won’t think your silence means you are running from the situation
On the flipside, that could make some people think you are taking time to properly make your case (in a non-genuine matter) because you can't win with twitter :/
but overall I think this is decent advice
@haz6908 yeah someone is always gonna be like “the apology feels fake” for no reason
@baconbot62 I’ve already seen people complaining about apologies/posts addressing controversy sounding “ai generated” :/
When the Wilbur situation broke, it drove me nuts how people jumped to the conclusion that Wilbur was the "ex boyfriend" Shubble was mentioning. If they were wrong, not only would Wilbur's career have been ruined, but the three (apparently) innocent members of LoveJoy and even Shubble's were on the chopping block!
My opinion has since changed since Wilbur's statement came out and he admitted to it but called it a "misunderstanding" which was not it, but that's a massive bullet dodged, not proof that what happened was the right thing to do.
You underestimate how terminally online minecraft youtuber stans are. She dropped way too many specific hints for people to get the wrong person.
I really don't know what people mean about him admiting to it, he didn't. He just did what every man in this situation would do regardless of what happened: apologize and try to explain why the things the other person said are false without taking away their "experience". Because if he didn't he could risk the internet getting more mad at him. And it did, because it always does. I've seen that happening trillions of times. Shubble still didn't get any proof whatsoever for what i recall and Wilbur vanished from the internet probably because he knows he can't fight with a woman accusing him of abuse.
For context: here where i live we have a very famous youtuber now streamer who got the same treatment as Wilbur; his ex girlfriend accused him of terrible things for over 7 years. His first instinct was to go on twitter and say "i'm sorry to everyone i disappointed, i am in therapy right now..." yadda yadda. Because of that people believed everything his ex said of him... Again without any proof: thinking that "well if he apologized then the allegations are real". 7 years later his ex accused him of sexual abuse, this time she was accusing him of a crime... He was then forced to put on twitter a 19 pages doc that explained everything in detail what was their relationship like, how SHE was the abuser all along and how he never talked about it because he didn't want to reveal so many private informations about himself, their relationship and his life (because he had to reveal REAL INTENSE things from his past to prove how he would never do what she claims he did). One day after that the whole country sided with him, even other creators that let him down while the drama was happening. His ex came out saying that the accusation was false but that he was still a bad boyfriend (wich he already admitted he was, but now told us she wasn't great either, being even more terrible than whatever he could have made). He also got her sued for defamation and won't respond nor reveal anymore of their past issues to the public because that's private and not internet domain.
There are MANY REASONS why a person should not talk about their experience on the internet and many reasons why the other party might not deffend themselves and rather take the blame. It's not because Wilbur apologized that he did what Shelby claimed he did. She did not show any proof, he did not give his perspective yet about anything (and i really wish he does, or that shelby at least give us somethinf to work with). And more importantly: they aren't solving things legally yet. Only then will we know the real truth if we ever do. To trust someone to the point of ruining other person's life, that someone has to have loads of proof, and preferably not spill any of that on the internet. Because the internet isn't a place for that.
@@sweetbnuy THIS!! I commented on an upload of Shelby's stream saying that I was taking everything with a grain of salt until I saw some actual proof and I got *dogpiled* by people yelling that "Wilbur apologized so it's true" and I even had someone tell me that because Shelby's friends took her side that somehow means she was telling the truth? I also was told that "Shelby would have nothing to gain from falsely accusing him" when...look what's happening now. People he previously thought of as friends are dogpiling him and he's pretty much gone silent. People are so ready to believe stories of unproven events and banish the accused from the Internet, meanwhile if anyone questions the accuser, they get lambasted for "not believing a victim" when there's no proof that there was a victim at all!
This situation has bothered me so badly. I thought people had learned from their mistakes of believing things without evidence, but apparently they haven't.
I was confused when I first saw that situation
@@syniimon-stix4022you’re correct on how to treat accusations! however i don’t think shelby named anyone so it didn’t feel like an accusation to me?? it seemed like she was just kind of venting, so proof isn’t really a thing that would even come to mind. bare in mind i haven’t watched her content normally, nor any dmsp creators’ so idk how likely they’d be to guess the sleuthing skills of their fans. Edit: ignore what i said! apparently shelby couldn’t name wilbur but wanted to. legal reasons.
Not exactly relating to the conversation but talks about the internet and about content creators being accused of being for this example lesbophobic. As a lesbian I find it cringe when people comment, "____ creator is lesbophobic" when it's a joke that they made 4 years ago. The creator I'm referencing hasn't made a joke in that nature in years. I have a rule of thumb if its been years and they aren't currently doing said things, it shouldn't count as in people make mistakes. If it's been 2 years and over, then it's cold tea.
This is what the courts would call the "statute of limitations".
This, and then if the person apologizes now, there’s always someone like “but they’re only apologizing bc they got called out 🥺” or smth
@@baconbot62 Yeah it's dumb. They brought it up. I probably made some edgy ass jokes as a kid yet I don't feel the need to beg for forgiveness 5 years later, if someone were to bring it up id probably had forgot what the joke even was by that point.
Omg this. If someone did something *years* ago, and hasn't been doing it consistantly between that point and the present, it shouldn't be relevant. It gets on my nerves when people bring up things from years ago for no reason
@@bluetoadettethegoddess6104 That's why the law has a statute of limitations.
One thing that I think more people should do: ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE. I've seen it recently where people will just see that there are any receipts whatsoever and take it at face value without considering whether or not that evidence actually proves what the accuser is claiming. Sometimes I see messages that very obviously have context cut out. Not to name names, but I saw a doc recently where one of the screenshots showed sexual comments made by the accused towards the accuser, and the first message was "omg yes please" or something to that effect, and my immediate first though was "what was that in response to, and why did you not include the context?"
it drives me CRAZY when i see people saying "the evidence looks so real..." but then when i look at the "evidence", it just doesn't line up with the claims and looks like mostly normal conversation. like, yeah, you could absolutely be a victim here and what you're saying could be true, but you're really not doing a good job at showing it and i have seen false allegations almost ruin people's careers too many times over the past decade that i just cannot take you at your word when you explain the context that would make this otherwise innocuous conversation incriminating without anything to back it up.
Also, screencaps can be forged and vindictive people will do that
As a guy who’s been SA’d and CSA’d before when I was younger, I’m terrified of being accused. I’ve been in therapy for about 6 years now to cope with the PTSD. I’ve been in the gallows myself and very much know what happens to someone if they go through that. I couldn’t imagine the horror of being falsely accused of something like that.
Unfortunately I know what's it's like for something bad to happen and not have any evidence. I was a kid and deleted all my messages with the bad person out of shame. I'm just glad that person is inactive now. It sucks, but I knew I couldn't make the accusation because testimony alone shouldn't condem people for it.
It sucks, but just keep that information in mind for the future. Don't delete stuff out of shame like I did. Follow what Mali said in her video about gathering evidence when you've realized what happened to you. Be careful out there.
Hey, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you.
I hope you're doing okay and taking care of yourself.
When I was fourteen I had no real evidence either. He had left a few marks on my body but I didn't want to think about them so my mind tried to push them out. I tried to be nice to him the day after it happened but I got scared in the middle of the store and blocked him. I was taken out of class a week or two later and interrogated by police. All they could go off of was my word that day. I understand now that while it happened to me, with only word of mouth, the detective couldn't know for sure if it was true.
He is a free man today with a wife and two children. It's obviously too late for me to do anything, and even if I could still go after him, I would choose not to. I just haven't really looked into the specific limitations because I didn't want to tear a family apart, even though something did happen it feels too late now for me. I just try to make my peace w/ it now.
Once again I hope you are doing okay lately. I hope you have a beautiful support system around you and things you really enjoy doing. I 100% agree with trying to gather evidence when you've realized what happened to you. It will help you immensely the more evidence you have
@@v4nilla20 thank you, luckily I do have a support system. I hope you have people around you that help you as well.
If it's criminal and within statute of limitations you may still be able to get legal help. Websites usually hold onto data like messages for a very long time, long after you delete them, and if it's a criminal case they can be forced to give that information to the police
@@mikwolf2236 hm, I may check that out. It was on deviantart and the account it was on (my account, theirs still seems to be up) was also deleted, but maybe something can be brought up. I believe the account was deleted 4 years ago, I dunno if the web site would still be holding that info.
I fully practice "wait and don't jump either party while keeping a healthy distance from the accused" though I will say the moment someone throws the genuinely emotionally manipulative narrative of "support victims you lose nothing from doing so and if it turns out to be false you also lose nothing" and "staying neutral is the same as supporting abusers" I immediately become suspicious of whoever is making the accusations. So far that gut feeling has not failed me which is disheartening
People love to make false accusations just for the sake of getting brownie points, don't they?
And don't care if ACTUAL victims get fubared in the process
Yep
it's highly blow out of proportion by real abusers to make victims look insane
it's highly blow out of proportion by real abusers to make victims look insane
@@snailcheeseyoutubeactual victims usually don't make outlandish accusations, so idk
It's such an us vs them mentality. I remember when one of my first real mutuals or "fandom friends" dropped and blocked me the literal minute I started considerign the oppostite perspective of a fandom controversy we were both really invested in. It hurt at the time, but I think I'm ultimatly better off without a person so stuck in their own ways. They were pretty unacceptably rude to a lot of peolple, and it was easy to think it's ok when you have the mindet of "well those people have the _bad_ opinion."
Wish I'd had this when a group of people falsely accused me of racism, pedophilia, rape apologizing, etc and I fell into such a bad depression for three months my therapist labelled me as "clinical". I made the mistake of saying I'd go to the supreme court and police for slander, which only made things worse. Now half of those people are being accused themselves and have been outed, but I still have that deep anger left in me for what they did because they didn't like me.
I'm sorry that happened to you
@@Beloved-j2g Thank you. It's made me stronger and learn how to deal with those types of people, but it still hurts from time to time.
What probably angers me the most is when people start acting up because the accused hasn't adressed the accusations yet after a few days. But when they rush out a video and the quality suffered from it people call them out for rushing out a bad vid??
Twitter users are not worth paying attention to, you're clearing your name in front of the broader internet and doomscrolling after being called out won't ever help the situation.
@@anitaremenarova6662 I dont even have twitter... i was referring to comment sections on UA-cam, usually of the accused.
A lot of internet discourse, especially twitter discourse is purely reactionary. A lot of times people will not think about their tweets or what they imply and just say what first comes to mind. This is how we get inconsistencies like this.
Guys did you know Mali doesn’t clean her spoons
There’s proof I swear I’ve seen it
POTATO NO DONT DO ME LIKE THIS
@@MaliMalwareYOU CANT SILENCE MY STORY!
Its true! Them spoons are always dirty when I crawl into the spoon area from the hole in the wall with my thousand legs.
/silly
ACCUSATIONS! FALSE ACCUSATIONS /ref
I would like to add about NOT going to Twitter first. Gather every bit of evidence you can BEFORE saying anything publicly. If you announce your intentions publicly that just gives them time to erase, delete or otherwise hide any evidence they may have
"Hands off the keys!"
Yes! Before I got to the "Accused" segment, I began thinking that it's probably not a good idea to start making decisions when your brain is in fight or flight mode. And this is coming from someone who was dealing with a crippling level of anxiety the past few months.
Honestly for me,if I heard someone accused my idol on doing something. I just decided to distance away from them and didn't watch their stuff due to trust issues and just focuses on my life. I'm glad I still did that.
best possible thing to do here
But what if they later turn out to be innocent?
@@oriongear2499 then that means you can trust me just not too much.
I wait for the conviction. I'm not gonna stop liking things over gossip.
innocent until proven guilty.
My sister was falsely accused as a content creator and had to go to the police to sort it out. Sending the twitter mob after anyone even if there is evidence isn’t the move. People die over this stuff, she was proven innocent and I miss her greatly.
Did she actually die?
The "always believe victims" mentality that some parts of the internet hold does end up screwing over content creators sometimes, on the other hand it's common for people to side with the accused just because they like that person more (I've seen the latter happen irl when the person did actually do what he was being accused of, hell I witnessed some of the stuff he did when I wasn't the actual victim)
False accusations make the lives of actual victims trying to speak out harder since they're more likely to be dismissed, hell the person accusing that dude was straight up told that they were making the lives of "real victims" harder when they were telling the truth. They also got harassed at school and online over it.
In terms of situations where someone's getting accused of something like that online you really need to wait for both parties to say something, and regardless you shouldn't harass people! Even if the accused did do a lot of horrible shit, even if the accuser really is just making it up for clout or whatever, just block the person, it's literally a single button press and it's free, and I know it's harder to avoid the person in real life but that still doesn't mean you should go after them.
Also if you go after someone on the behalf of someone else, you're not going to be the one who pays for that, it's going to find its way back to whoever you're trying to defend and they'll be blamed for it instead, making their life worse.
The worst part is, now day it is not about believing victims and taking bad people accountable. It’s about you appearing morally superior because you aren’t supporting a possible bad person.
It’s only about you.
The individual you are.
Who cares if someone is getting accused without basis for it, who cares if a victim might get justice or not?
They just want moral superiority, they just want moral correctness for themselves.
If we want proof that "guilty until proven innocent" is the worst system imaginable, just play a bit of Ace Attorney and see how hard it is to be a defense lawyer.
Everything is stacked against you and the system is rigged against the accused. I truly believe the saying *_"it's better to let a few bad eggs go free than to let an innocent man rot in jail"_*
Cause the thing is, a bad egg can still be caught in the future, but an innocent person will be ruined forever.
@@anneo8393so you're okay with the bad egg harming more people? And victims not getting justice .The system is rigged against the victims not the abusers
I’ll never forgive people for just completely flipping sides on Kwite after a single random google doc, giving him no time to respond before all collectively agreeing that he’s evil. Funny that the people on TikTok calling him a r-pist, an abuser and an over all terrible human being went SILENT after his response
Accusations are also definitely being used as an avenue of abuse now, Quinton reviews had this happen to him, one of this ex employees and fans had been sexually harassing him for months and when he finally told her she needs to stop contacting him she accused him of sexually harassing her and of bad employment practices
It’s like the story of “The boy who cried wolf”. Soon people will keep telling “lies” that will get others to stop believing them and when a real situation nobody will believe them.
Edit: haha love that Ponder Sprocket said it too!
I haven't been keeping up with these situations completely but from what I've seen after the Wilbur abvse accusations people took advantage to jump other minecraft youtubers and none of that was credible. Absolutely disgusting some would stoop so low as to get back on people by falsely claiming SH and R. Only thing that does is make people believe actual victims less.
Yeah but that backfires on real victims as well, when you keep seing fake accusations, it's difficult to recognize a real one.
The people who lie don't hurt only themselves, they hurt the real victims.
@@anitaremenarova6662 agreed, in an ideal world, the situation would backfire only on the liars but it doesn't, it probably backfires on almost everyone but the liar.
I was emotionally abused and stalked by my ex. I've stayed silent on their identity on the internet because I feel like I don't have enough evidence to convince people what they did to me. It hurts, because they stalked and emotionally abused my friend after I was done with them. I can't warn anyone about them because people may think I'm crazy. This video has convinced me there's nothing I can do but just live with this knowledge.
Not entirely true. This video is more specific to people taking accusations public. If you have someone who is harassing and stalking you, (been there, it sucks), you are still completely able to tell your story to other people. Especially those in your immediate circles seeing as they're the people you're most likely to even want/need to tell. Just be aware that the way people receive stories like this will change drastically between private/personal spaces and online spaces, especially if you dont bring anything other than a story.
In regards to evidence of bad behaviour from a stalker or ex, you'd want to get screenshots of conversations, proof of their stalking (this can be excessive phone calls, showing up where you live, creating multiple accounts to evade blocks, things like that) or any other records you might have depending on the nature of their behaviour.
best of luck.
@@MaliMalware Thank you! I've been thinking of telling the police so that it's on record at the very least. I'll do my best!
Remember there is room for nuance. When people make false allegations, the people they hurt are people like you.
Attacking the accused without evidence is awful, but calling someone a liar without evidence that they’re lying is also awful
My advice: time does not matter if your able to gather evidence.
Remember what happened with Mick Gordon, it took him years to adress the accusations about his work on Doom Eternal, but he brought the evidence and proved that not only were they false but that he had in fact been the victim of a terrible employer.
As a small creator one of my biggest fears is to end up in either side of an accusation because I'm super emotional and I would probably be digging up my own grave as soon as I'd start speaking up lol. Because of that I've been stupidly avoiding male content creators and even hesitating to answer messages from minors asking for art advice. I know it's probably not rational anymore at this point but welp 💀 This video is honestly like a breeze of fresh for me, you gave really good advices and it helped me temper the worries down. Thanks a lot!! 💖
For me its avoiding minors and females.
Step one, of being on the receiving end of major accusations... get a lawyer; step two, don't speak about said accusation; step three, show receipts after gathering; step four, profit.
Step five: ignore step four.
@@marcosortega3350 Profit as in win
Yeah I edit my messages for typos. So when my screenshots were used to prove my innocence, the accuser lied and claimedi had deleted things I never said.
Lesson learned.
This video is on point. Going through accusation and the stack of your character is bewildering, frustrating, and heart breaking.
So much truth and great advice here! Thank you!
P.S. the accusation was that I was being rude. It seems like a small thing but this accuser managed to get four people to block me.
Attack of your character*
if it's on discord, u can just get those apps that log deleted messages and edited ones (its against TOS but sincerely nobody cares about that)
"if you ask for evidence that makes you complicit in the thing this person is being accused of". Real things i've heard at times. How are we supposed to side against someone if the only thing we're told is "believe every word we say without solid evidence and if you want proof that means you're calling us liars and siding with a monster".
I've got an idea for an art drama channel now. Time to fabricate, instigate, scam, and collect the revenue.
Dude's/Dudette's planning to start his/her villain arc lol
Based philza minecraft shout out.
lol yeah
As part of "Exit out of spite gang", I should let you know that the creator studio lets you see what percentage of viewers leave at any given point in the video, which would be interesting to see here, but usually it's in the first few minutes anyways, so in this instance there'd be multiple variables to the drop-off.
And leaving a comment helped your engagment more than clicking off hurt it, so you're welcome.
I love that we had Mali Malware, Streamline workshop, Ponder sprocket, Calimari and Duchess Celestia in the same video, they all had the best take on this situation and I'm glad this was released around a time a certain UA-camr I won't name has been accused of stuff along the lines of what was used as examples here. It's honestly best not to engage and only spread awareness when the claims have been confirmed in full either way.
Ironic since Stream was also pedaling false accusations about Lio
@@EsmeMarionwhich accusations were false? We now have proof that Lio lied in his most recent video on Crystal Flame. Crystal released the whole call.
as someone who's been through hell and back with false allegations, they absolutely ruined me dawg. even worse was it was my friend group of like 7 years who did it
only like 8 months later, i'm starting to get in a better headspace, but it's still really hard every day. it's so hard to trust anyone or anything at all bro
Yeah honestly, when you're close to them and they're your friends, that's when it really cuts deep. It's been a year and a half and I'm only recently getting over serious depression because someone I was in love with who made horrendous false accusations because they were mad at me for... being insecure? I literally don't even know what it was.
@@anneo8393 absolutely, i was so down to spend the rest of my life with these people only for them to go and do this, partially having to do with an ex of mine as well. i litr cried for days, it hits like a truck out of thin air
If you believe all victims, you believe all abusers
the way this video came into my recommended while i was genuinely considering publicly posting about a semi popular streamer who deeply hurt me as a child. it really helped me put stuff into perspective so thank you so much
That's rough, I hope you're doing alright now. Sadly you need either rock solid evidence or a genuine re-telling of your story on camera to have people believe you since you're always fighting an uphill battle when accusing people with established audiences.
@@anitaremenarova6662 i'm doing much better, thank you... i doubt i would ever be able to get enough evidence to make his fans happy bc skype doesn't keep logs (at least it didn't in 2013) and i don't have the same computer anymore. i can only prove that i knew him, really.
please don't let people like this discourage you from helping other victims and telling your story
@@snailcheeseyoutube what do you mean by this? i don't want to tell my story because i don't have evidence for it and i'd rather not be chewed up and spat out by his fans over it. he was large enough to get featured on channel frederator back in the day. i'm not gonna take that risk with nothing to prove my case.
@@angela.i.2364 I'm so sorry it's horrible that people have created this environment where victims are shut down, particularly the creator of this video
I believe the best response to baseless accusations is still “We did it Reddit!”
Remember: You will lose, even if you win.
1, Love the name and the design. Very good stuff.
2. Love the video. This is the most "LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK" I've ever watched. Pretty much covered everything I've been saying for years
People just need to stop accusing/canceling other people just for views and money. Also we as a community need to stop giving these people said attention and money. Treat them like you would a four year old throwing a tantrum because their parents wouldn't let them eat a cookie before dinner, just ignore them until they get tired and realize throwing a fit isn't working.
I remember when I just started watching Illuminaghti and she did her 'callout' video, but I had been watching Click already before it so I was like "Okay Imma wait for his response" and boom problem solved. I dislike how fast these 'accusations' could get out of hand though especially if the accused takes longer to make a response, imaginations go wild when the internet mob decides to hate you
This reminds me of a time a while back when I was in a Discord server and some drama went down. I didn’t fully know what happened but someone was accused of being a creep and that person was kicked. I never took a side in the drama because I didn’t feel informed enough to know what the truth was, but the server mods, who had been part of the drama, ended up banning me because I refused to take part in the name-calling and bad-mouthing of the person they had banned. It’s entirely possible that that person genuinely had been a creep, and I’m not in contact with anyone from that server anymore. I have no way of knowing what things would have been like if I had had more context, but I stand by the way I handled the whole thing.
I think you made the right call. They completely gave into the Discord mod stereotype. It appears that person was just ostracized by the server and you were banned for not joining in.
It's crazy that it almost perfectly describes what my friend went through some time ago. While they made minor mistakes, the callout was deliberately disingenuous in such way to insinuate they were a ped0. They got kicked out with no way to defend themselves. Anyone in the serv who didn't uncritically agree with the accusations got banned too. It turned into such a terrible shitshow and, needless to say, had a very bad impact on my buddy.
I wonder how many petty forced dramas like that happen, leaving the accused with trauma to work through. I applaud you for acting reasonably, I wish more people were like that.
May I ask; would that server happen to have been a FNaF server? I believe I remember something similar to that happening around late 2022, but idk if it was the actual exact situation or not.
@@kittydemonoverkillnope, not FNAF related. so probably this kind of drama just happens pretty often
@@moldypaw6134 Forced dramas happen way more often than you think like that just because a mod or admin in my case don't like someone. It happens more so to autistic people as well as not being able to tell social cues and that is even worse with text because no tone body language or anything to help know what the other person means. Often times autistic people get labeled as creeps when they are not trying to be especially when they are teenagers
In my case it was even more ironic that the server was supposed to be a safe place. The only thing i will say is that it was a League of Legends server which says everything as the league community is fucking toxic. After that i just stopped joining discord servers pretty much and i am too hesitant on joining any. This happened about 5 or so years ago probably sometime around season 9 of league of legends even if it was later stage of season 9. Not saying i was a teen btw, i forgot to make that clear but that it just happens to autistic teens more often
Honestly, i have my gripes with Dream, but one thing that got me a lot of respect for him was how he handled his controversy with the girl who accused him. He took his time, didnt feed the twitter mob, gathered evidence, and shut her down in like a few weeks once he felt ready. People who still call Dream a weirdo still are mostly just uninformed and dont watch him anyways, or the twitter mob.
I have a lot of gripes with him as i said, but i feel like he handled that better than any other male influencer who was falsely accused (except maybe kwite). But it does suck that we have to go so far to disprove accusations that have barely any evidence backing them. It's legitimately scary.
and then he threw that all away by throwing wilbur under the bus when the accusations against him came out with no evidence, and then he did a twitter space crying about george and saying to support caiti when she made false accusations against him and later deleted and privated everything.
10:59 That rant felt really good to hear. Like what do you mean "trust"!? You can't trust anyone. There are UA-camrs who had their squeaky clean names tarnished because of their actions so many times. You don't know these people. Don't trust them with nearly anything. Now, this isn't to say that you have to have the idea that the creator isn't trustworthy at the back of your mind when you watch the content. Just keep in mind that these people are strangers. The difference between a UA-camr and someone you see on the street is that the former broadcasts themselves.
Anyway, I do like the mini section on the topic of people actually affiliated with the accuser. Friendship is a powerful thing and of course the first thing a friend will do is side with their friend when they speak of terrible news. No actual friend is gonna be like "pics or it didn't happen" unless they're weird. It's hard to look for evidence when you want to support a friend, it's also hard to just cut all contact with someone who's done something wrong even if anyone else doing the action would attract their disgust.
thank you, oh i am so tired of children/manchildren these days claiming that anyone who made them uncomfortable was abusing them and everyone just consumes that accusation uncritically. especially if they were assholes to a trauma survivor or disabled person, and then labeled the victims impulsive reaction to being picked on as harassment towards them.
ProJared and Pyrocynical are perfect examples of this. I’ve been watching Jared for a decade and Pyro for 8 years respectively and what happened to Jared in 2019 (the same year of happened to Slazo who I also like) and Pyro in 2020 were a very rough time for me as a fan of theirs. I stood by them for I had my suspicions and my instincts told me that there’s more to the stories than just the allegations and there was a lack of evidence on the side of the accusers. And when they released their response videos owning up to what they did admit to doing wrong and debunking the false accusations against them, it confirmed my suspicions that they were innocent victims of they were falsely accused of. As a survivor of SA and a woman myself, it always upsets me that male victims of abuse don’t get taken equally as seriously as female victims of abuse and making up a abuse story to hurt them for the sake of revenge and clout really grinds my gears. It not only hurts real victims like me, but it also further hurts the already tarnished reputations of the falsely accused. Also, the right thing to do if people who are victims of abuse, is to simply call the many hotlines that deal with abuse and exploitation, or reach out to their families, friends, and local authorities to settle it in private with the accused, then talk about it publicly after the litigations are done. Not let everything out on public online forums, that’s a last resort (Lionmaker’s and Mini Ladd’s victims did that properly). What the false accusers did to Jared and Pyro (as well as Slazo, Kwite, Vinny Vinesauce, Chuggaconroy, etc.) is disgusting and that’s something I can’t and won’t forgive. A lot of people who were originally in Jared’s fan base and friend/collab group didn’t reach out to him for his side, sided with the false accusations, and ostracized themselves as a result of that. I wholeheartedly agree that if people were to leave their parasocial feelings and biases out and be objective, the internet would be a much better place for everyone. Great job Mali, nice homage to Internet Comment Etiquette as well. He’s a good dude.
just started the video but just wanted to say I love the concept of an entire “internet etiquette” series!
I got news for you, there's a whole channel dedicated to Internet etiquette!
Same
Good news! There's *Internet Etiquette with Erik*
honestly, as an MCYT fan, i really needed this, thanks
Man! I haven't been around this channel for a while! Glad I came back since it seems it's growing a bit. Honestly all of us could use a Mali since if any of you haven't been watching the... recent events we need some funny or advice.
Hey there lol
@@Glitchhusky9304Hiii Minty ✨
O hi tarzy
@@GoatCatto_ Hey Goat
@@Glitchhusky9304Hi Mint!
I find it so scary that the Internet is so obssessed over ruining someones careers now. Like its terrifying to think about it
I look at" believe the victim" to mean to be aware if someone is vulnerable to an aggressor. It doesn't mean anyone needs to take sides. If someone is being dog piled on the internet after an acusation, they are in a vulnerable position, and the dog pile becomes an aggressor. Don't dog pile on someone you don't know about other people's business. If there was a bad falling out, and one person is talking sh*t about the other, but they're separated, and no one is in danger, that's just drama.
i've been falsely accused of things before it's awful i rarely speak about it because i'm terrified of someone doing it again
Hello,
Was accused of being a creep/groomer/pedo. Got my accounts hacked, identity stolen, etc.
Everyone believed it. Almost died from it. 0/10 wouldn't recommend doing this to anyone. Not fun.
34:10 to 35:40 are the wisest 90 seconds for drama enthusiasts this decade
Not only have I avoided art commentary communities because of accusations like this but just, art community in general. People don't seem to realize that the art community is actually pretty competitive. A community is made, but at the same time there are people that want to take control of a community or want to be "the one choice" when it comes to art and animation.
I have seen people who just don't like someone, so they search for something problematic they said in the past and blow it out of proportion.
In my opinion, any side could be a victim. We don't know the full story unless we see all the evidence and proof, but automatically supporting the accusers does not help the situation. The accusers decide when they're ready to talk about a serious situation, the accused usually aren't ready. They have no choice, no time, and no decision except to show their side ASAP. Which usually becomes a rushed mess of evidence that they can collect with what they have NOW.
No time, no way to defend themselves, just a bunch of angry people wanting to take them down over the word of a stranger.
Accusers definitely can be right, but they could also be wrong. Abusers lately have been using callout docs to take down people they want to ruin. It happens... and I'm tired of people ignoring that. There is reality to consider, and reality is unfair, unjust, and cruel.
We don't know who a person is truly, especially online.
3:58 everyone on the internet and especially Twitter, pay attention to this part, you all know why.
this.... is put better then I could've, thank you and well done. If I ever have someone I know who needs this video I hope this site dosn't sink before then so I can use this to help them
I'm honestly shocked yet inspired by how people like you, and the other youtubers (Celestia, Cali Mara, Ponder, & Workshop) are brave enough to say what needs to be said. While also remaining level headed and avoiding being condescending.
I might not have a following. But you inspired me a while back with your video over aging up characters for shipping/ explicit purposes. Since then. I've been digging around the internet for a year in preparation to make a video over the subject (as well as the topic of media literacy) myself. I'm still honestly nervous.
On an unrelated note:
I just saw an instance of someone (kind of) making an accusation without proper proof. It was over shipping stuff. They did very obviously biased research, and basically said that *_all_* pro-shippers are weirdos and should turn themselves to jail.
And like you said. We're all strangers on the internet. We don't know the other person behind the screen nor their *real* intentions. And while the world is a scary place. Unless we have evidence of the person who we're *suspecting* , committing or outwardly endorsing, harmful/ vile behavior. Then we just don't have a proper case. And thus, should *not* try to pass it off as them actually doing something illegal. Like I get that the person who said that is normally sarcastic. But it was a serious topic and shouldn't have been brushed off so brazenly. Prison sentences can easily ruin someone's *_entire_* life.
Nervous about what?
@@marcosortega3350 Online harassment, doxxing, death threats, ect. So online/ public reception worries me, especially on the off chance that the video randomly gets tons of views. I mean, another reason for me wanting to make it is partially due to how the drama around the topic made me feel back in 2020-2022.
I was afraid of going outside. Constantly worrying about potentially being a threat to teens and younger kids. I paid attention to how I felt when minors were around. Took me a while to realize that, no, I don't feel "that kind of way" around them. In fact. After going through that, I kind of started to hate the company of kids and teens.
I read the title as “Internet [comment] Etiquette: Accusations”
Thinking: “Oh shit. Not Erik. Erik, what have you done?”
I don’t know you but thaaank you for this video. It’s so nice to see someone being reasonable about this for once. The way people on Twitter typically behave about this kind of thing makes me feel insane
one time some guy said i was trying to break into victims spaces (discord servers) so i (14 year old) could attack them. This is because i joined a server with differing opinions on shipcourse from me. They had no images or evidence and just Said that. I tried dming them about it but they ignored me because Im an "edgy freshman". The other person in the conversation has sexually assaulted people with multiple google docs and screenshots and everything to back it up. They did not recieve any repercussions.
What?
TLDR: Evidence lies on the accuser not the accused.
Oh wow another smart person asking the right questions I've been asking. No one ever shows their evidence for all these allegations/accusations. Glad someone finally made a video about this topic, thank you.
I was accused of being a thing from someone I once thought as a friend because we would hangout to play the same games together and we enjoyed it.
Her reasoning was because I liked the game Andy and Leyley despite not even owning it or actually even playing it, I just watched yt videos on it and enjoyed it, though she didn't know this and I just said I liked the game.
Made me stress out and cry because the internet is guilty until proven innocent. Then when I blocked her because I didn't want to deal with any of it, her friend went onto my stream and accused me of being that thing because I blocked her.
I remembered trying to hold back tears man during the stream and thinking about not wanting to do streaming again because it hurts man. Something enjoyable has become stressful because someone accuses you of being a thing over a game, and since you know internet mentality you know they would dump on you and come after you regardless of how stupid the reasoning behind it is. It made me so stressed and everything.
I absolutely hate people who falsly accuse. Its not fun and its not a game.
Are you doing better now?
I genuinely want to thank you for basically putting my thoughts into words
i wish this video was around back in 2017 when i was literally banned and ostracized from half of the modded minecraft community for a whole litany of things that never happened and i was never involved in.
I'd say "trust but verify" would most apply to someone you actually trust.
Verify, then trust, would be more accurate for strangers.
As for friends and family, both supporting them and seeking evidence is a good strategy, because that also means you're helping them support their claim by making sure they're prepared. Though I have been called a sociopath for this before and I will absolutely own it.
I just wanna say thank you you for making this video, I’ve been falsely accused of something in the past by a kid who didn’t meant to cause harm and I don’t see a lot of things about victims of false accusations so it really helps. I hope you’re having a wonderful day onwards
But what about the innocent people who's families have distanced themselves from the accused, even after the accused has been proven innocent?
that is unfortunate, but what is there to be done about it?
@@flechiir They can leave the family members who’ve sided with the liar behind.
Or if that doesn’t work, they can change their last name to distance themselves from their family who’ve abandoned them.
Most of the time, if I ask someone making serious accusations about ANY of those things, they begin screaming.
Another important thing: accusations are not the end of the world, and if those who accused don't believe you or ignore your evidence - there will be those who will. Stick with them. The people on the other side are trying to ruin your life, if they see that instead you got a better one - they will back off.
The history of the accused is a rarely talked about topic. If the accused is being accused of harrasment and they have a history of prior accusations or content related to the topic, they have a higher likelihood of being guilty.
"content related to the topic"? What, do you think liking horror movies is evidence that supports the notion of someone being a murderer?
And that's not how truth works. Someone being accused repeatedly isn't evidence the accusations are true. It's evidence people hate this person which could be tall poppy syndrome or trying to silence a truth teller or anything else. If people want to tear someone down for making them look bad they're going to keep throwing things at the wall and sooner or later something will stick. And if one person hates you odds are there's plenty more.
If you are sensitive to sound or are bad with faces you will be accused of being racist repeatedly. This has no correlation whatsoever to whether you actually are racist--but if someone is continually punished for something they didn't do, they're going to lose all reason not to do it.
@@amazinggrapes3045 I'm not saying it means that it's true, just that if enough people are saying that they did something at different times, then it is more likely to be true
2012 really was the end of the world.
Now we live in a virtual world.
This video makes me feel like I'm in 6th hour Health, the teacher is tired and disappointed, and now she's just lecturing the class about how to be decent people, all the while crayons are flying across the room. I love it lol