How Each Pitch Works, and Pitch Tier Lists
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Pitchers in OOTP are arguably the most complex and puzzling part of the game. This is my current understanding of how each pitch works with different pitchers and which pitches are the best.
Link to Tier List: docs.google.co...
Where is the knuckle sinker curve?
4-seam split knuckle curve would rank higher just saying
I've watched a ton of your videos and they're very insightful. Just curious if you're spending days and days changing player stats and simulating games too figure this all out? It's something I've done a little bit you're diving far deeper than I have.
Yeah, this is something I've spent a whole lot of time on.
I’ve been a nasty girl (nasty)
Great vid. I'm a noob to this game and started a save before coming across your channel and boy have I been doing this all wrong. Question for you how do determine who goes to your rotation and who goes to your bullpen?
Pitchers with 4+ pitches and 45+ stamina are generally better rotation pitchers, and 3- with 40- stamina are better in the bullpen. 2 pitch pitcher automatically go to the bullpen.
@@sgtmushroom Thanks for the reply! Keep up the great vids!
In a spreadsheet… would you apply a bonus/penalty based on this information? Or would the majority of this information already be represented in Stuff/Movement/Control and splits?
I've been working on pitching models for literally about a year at this point. I would say it doesn't AFFECT my models, it IS my models. Movement/control can build semi-accurate walk/home run rate projections, but you really have you to build strikeout projections off of this.
Thanks for making this, great suggestion! Started to look for guys with high knuckleball, slider, forkball etc. potential in drafts, and even with low overall potentials they still get interest from other teams in trades, so I'm excited to see if they outperform their low potentials or not. Great execution!
Thanks! Definitely does make a big difference.
I think you might have mistaken sinker for splitter here and there, cuz Ive had pitchers with basically one pitch, maxed out sinker, who threw ~100 MPH, and as a reliever basically unstoppable. Ive also seen some people posting screenshots with those kind of pitchers starting and still being quite effective. Other than that - great video as always!
As good as the sinker is, the splitter is even crazier for that actually. It wasn't mistaken, but it is definitely more common to see a sinkerballer than splitter pitcher
Fernando Valenzuela in the game had a maxed Screwball & won nearly 400 games for me. I think you got it underrated here.
Using Dickey instead of Wakefield for the Knuckleball. Ouch.
I mean statistically they're basically the same, but I already had Pedro and Clemens for the Red Sox, and Dickey did win the Cy Young
Poor Charlie Hough gets no love. He extended his career 25 years, paying the bills until he was 46 throwing nothing but that nasty Knuckleball. 😆
@@williamthomas4125 Nolan Ryan is the only pitcher I used who didn't pitch into the 2000's. If I was looking at all eras of baseball, Phil Niekro or Hoyt Wilhelm would've been my pick (although Hough is good)
the best pitcher ive ever seen had an elite knuckleball/splitter, a bad cutter/sinker/FB
he had 7 WAR as a reliever in 100 innings and 20K/9 rate
Do you know if future versions are going to shake any of this up? As effective as the current system is for simulations, it feels like an overhaul is due for pitching mechanics with more variation & depth. Is there anything you’re realistically hoping will change?
i feel like there could be a overhaul for ratings in general as it feels like that will happen soon. Like in ootp 24 with how the game is trending.
@@cantripleplays I wouldn't count on it. I've discussed this with the developers about 6 months ago, and unfortunately it doesn't sound like this is in the cards for the near future.
It's going to be a while. We might see small tweaks such as adjustments in how things work, but on a larger scale I don't really see the massive game engine overhaul that we really need to support statcast era baseball. The only thing I realistically hope they change is starter vs. reliever mechanics and player generation, and possibly rebalancing some stuff.
huge ootp fan as well, and i knew most of what you said but not about the nastiness of splitters for two pitch pitchers. the next step to this imo would be combining this with arm slot? i’ve noticed that overhead curveballs work far better on opposite splits too and levelling them out!
I have not had the opportunity to investigate this yet but I'll look into it
@@sgtmushroom awesome!
really like ur name, sgt mushroom lol
if I have a pitcher on a 2 to 8 scale, 2 pitches are 7 but the third one is a 4 does he still count as a three pitch pitcher?
I wish you had separated two seam and four seam fastballs I feel a two seamer in certain instances would be more effective than four seam fastballs but it would’ve been interesting to see where it would rank
I would if OOTP did. Hopefully, that's something they add in the near future. I'm planning to do a tier list for real life pitcher pitches as well, and I will include a lot of the stuff missing from OOTP.
Is this still mostly relevant for OOTP 24?
More or less, though things have definitely changed some.
This is just wonderful, thanks man!
So Cool Thanks for the work
this is working for ootp go?
To my knowledge, OOTP Go uses the same simulation engine (although possibly a little messier) as desktop OOTP
I don't know anything about OOTP (never heard of it before today), but this is really interesting stuff. This list highlights for me that we've been pretty spoiled in Arizona. We've had a lot of interesting pitchers despite not having a team for very long.
Yeah, especially when you consider some of the guys we had as prospects like Scherzer and Bauer.
@@sgtmushroom Yep... so many missed opportunities.
@@TheCorpusDelicti Hopefully Walston, Cecconi, and Jarvis come around like we're hoping. Could be a real fun rotation in a few years.
Do you mind posting a chart or list that I can use for future reference? Thanks!
I'll get that set up ASAP and then put the link in the description
In description now
Are you going to look at this again for ootp23?
I'm looking into the possibility of redoing a lot of my work for OOTP 24, but unfortunately not for 23.
@@sgtmushroom I look forward to it
Unrelated but with changeups being very effective for all pitchers, is there a way to get around changeups never developing past 35? I have this problem with curveball as well to a lesser extent but change ups are often that third pitch that can elevate a pitcher from Reliever to rotation
Both can be problems. There's no way to avoid it at times unfortunately. I generally trust pitchers who get their changeup to 35 or better by age 22 to fully develop it. Past that, you have to be cautious. And keep in mind that high work ethic/intelligence with good pitching coaches can really help. I will make a video on this though.
Beat me to it 🤣
Is this still roughly applicable to OOTP 23?
I can't say for sure, but in the meantime I would assume it doesn't apply. A lot of things are way different in 23 and this is almost certainly one of them.
@@sgtmushroom well damn! I been using these as guidelines for Perfect Team. At the very least, do change ups and Knucleballs appear to still have a high dependency on Pitch Rating compared to other pitches?
I am feeling very lost with individual pitches, but personally I love knuckleballers because they're weird.
@@TheDarkIllusionists Everything here translates to PT. So yes.
I disagree that having a starter is better than a reliever. If you have an extremely dominant stopper in a modern era, that stopper can easily lead the league in pitching WAR. I’ve have a stopper (even in a 2-stopper bullpen) lead the league in Ks and pitching WAR, getting to the 6-7+ WAR levels!
Actually never seen that before in my long history of OOTP, but that is incredibly astonishing. I would certainly have to agree if you're getting that kind of production. Both are obviously quite important.
@@sgtmushroom It's an online league. I tried to reply with links to the stats+ pages for Butch Covault (6.5 WAR in 2026) and Jim Berryman (always above 4 WAR and lead the league twice and currently leading the league again in strikeouts--as an RP!), but I think it rejected my comment with links.
I really wanted to listen through the entire video here but unfortunately your microphone is picking up too much feedback from your breath / exhales :(
You kids are so spoiled, you would have died in the 90's and earlier. I'm sure he'll upgrade his equipment and technique the more successful he becomes.
When you say things like this it's not being helpful. You're just gatekeeping UA-cam from the working class as they rarely have time and money to start off perfectly.
Judge the information and entertainment on its own merits and stop obsessing over presentation. Especially when joining channels who havent hit 50k/100k subs yet.
Bro why is this 900 view video in my recommended, don’t watch baseball never have and never will 🤔
you must like sargeants and mushrooms then
You don't seem to understand. Many baseball analysts have named Mariano Rivera's cutter as one of the most effective pitches in baseball history.
I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of this video. I'm not ranking these pitches based on how effective they were for the pitchers that used them in real baseball. If I were, Mariano Rivera's cutter would probably slide in number 1, and definitely top 3. The purpose of this video was to rank how effective these pitches are in a vacuum in the OOTP world.
@@sgtmushroom thanks for the clarification. enjoy your vids
Change up and circle change up are not “basically the same pitch”. Your ignorance of baseball knowledge is showing with statements like that. A straight change is supposed to mimic the throwing action of a fastball but at much slower speed, ruining the timing of the batter. The circle change is slower like the straight change but also dips like a two seam fastball, thus inducing more ground balls. It also helps with splits.
OOTP and real baseball are two VERY different things. I have done sufficient testing within OOTP showing that demonstrates the 2 pitches have identical effects. A pitcher that has a changeup can replace that pitch with a circle changeup and be no different, and vice versa.
For the record, your definition of the two pitches is overly simplistic. Every pitchers' pitch moves differently depending on the spin they generate, the velocity they produce, and the angle they release the pitch at.
And please stop posting negative comments on my youtube channel. They aren't helping anyone. You can disagree with me, but please do so more respectfully, and please have data to back up your claims. Almost everything I post about is relating to OOTP, not real baseball, and generally unless I say so otherwise, I have tested it extensively and am very confident in my knowledge on the subject.