Baseball Has A Pitching Problem
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- Опубліковано 30 бер 2024
- #mlb #baseball
Today’s major league pitchers are throwing faster than ever before. Batters are striking out more than ever before. “Pitching wins championships.” This old baseball quote was true some one-hundred years ago when it was first spoken, and has not, and will not change.
What has changed however is the manner in which teams approach pitching. The methods used to scout, train, and utilize pitchers have shifted over the last two decades, drastically altering the game.
And the result is clear: baseball has a pitching problem. - Спорт
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Why not change your channel name to Top of the Inning?
I feel a big part is this new age of biomechanics where people try to mold their mechanics to what’s “ideal” for velocity and it’s not natural to them. Some people are just not born to be able to throw that hard for a long period of time
You also have life long pitchers. This is akin to the medieval archers spending decades building their body for the longbow.
Nolan Ryan said he got a strong arm throwing newspapers as a kid.
This gotta be true,
I was a sophomore in HS throwing upper 60's and by my senior year I was peaking 80MPH, as a sophomore i had VERY good accuracy but it was the speed that kept me from varsity despite going 22.1 innings without allowing a walk on JV. Senior year started rocky with my 2nd game I allowed 9ER, then the next game I had to pitch is when I "learned to pitch" I had to face the defending state champions, had to have a different approach, I did, I knew I couldn't power through em so I had to read each batters stance and find the hole to get an out, 3 k's 1 BB, 3 H, 2 ER, probably around 60 pitches in the CG. My senior year I had a lot of games where I pitched 100+, including an extras game where i pitched 8 innings, 2er in the 1st, no hits the next 7 ,1 BB
my last start before college was my PR at 13 k's in 6 innings, 2ER, 1BB, CG around 90 pitches
Speed is NOT key, the ability to read the batter and understand their motion can help you out a lot whether you want a strike or a ground out
I always followed a natural motion while pitching even though my throwing arm goes way behind my back, like if my arms were at 210 degrees
@@CoVaultme when I play mlb the show
For real. Chasing velocity and spin rate is killing these kids arm.
12:05
He gives 5 examples of veteran pitchers "dominating lineups" and ALL FIVE are injured now.
Shit... lmao
Every single pitcher he mentioned is injured right now, including the young guys
I honestly don't know why he included Manoah when he struggled the entirety of last season lol
Might be that the solution is a lighter ball but keep the same size. A lighter ball will slow down faster before reaching the batter so speed wouldn't be as useful. Increasing the distance between the pitcher and the batter at the same time would also require a more technical pitcher than a faster pitcher.
Of course it will also result in the ball not going as far when it's hit by the bat.
@@derekwong1356 Manoah got roughed up by a Single A team during rehab a week ago.
what's harming pro pitchers is playing baseball year round as youths
Agree
I have always felt it’s to much baseball and throwing at to young of an age. No reason for 8-13 year olds to be playing baseball year round. Once you hit high school maybe but not when so young and growing .
I wonder how many potential mlb players were destroyed by over training in Japan
@@user-dp5go8hr6w they also don't need to be throwing anything but fastballs and change ups until their arms are fully developed.
@@shawn-zx9xtagree with that as well
These youth coaches want to win so they can build up their travel teams and brands. They could care less about a kids arm health.
@@user-dp5go8hr6w We weren't even allowed to practice certain pitches. Mind blowing what little league has turned into and what seemed to be common knowledge is completely gone and accepting of inevitable Tommy jon. Nolan Ryan existed before all this!
As a 19 year old, Ive seen kids in middle school throwing a full bag of pitches and topping out at 70-80 mph, that’s not good for their health as they are still growing
With everyone prioritizing velocity, its only going to continue. Need more Greg Maddux's of the world
@Bottomoftheinning Greg Maddux didn't even throw soft. If you look at how hard he was throwing at his peak he threw about league average or slightly higher
He only looks slow because everyone compares him to the other best pitchers of all time which tend to be guys who throw extremely hard
@@BottomoftheInningHow does throwing fastballs over 90 mph compare, injury-wise, with throwing breaking balls or knuckleballs? Are there different or more demanding mechanics in throwing any of those?
They wanted more home runs so they shrunk the dimensions of the ballparks, didn’t they? I think the big parks were more exciting.
If the game reduces down to primarily strikeouts, walks or HRs, it’s going to be dull.
Side note: seeing home runs hit in person in the ballpark is much more thrilling than on TV. TV has the slow-motion replay, but watching a game in person is awesome. Well, if you have a nice crowd. When people get up 15 times during a game to walk in front of you to get more beer, it loses the magic.
@@BottomoftheInning I agree 100%
I threw pitching camps and played ball all the time when young. I was throwing 75-78 when I was in middle school. This was over 30 years ago. Didn't hurt me. And I threw more pitches than most especially in games as I was a lefty with movement and would run counts up to setup hitters.
As much as I loved Tim Linecum being undersized flame thrower watching Maddux baffle batters was poetry in motion.
also Greg's teammate Jamie Moyer a great pitcher who started 2 years before Greg on the Cubs and finished his career all the way in 2010 throwing 70-80mph his entire career with great success
True enough. But also, people think of Maddux as a soft-thrower, when he was actually competitively fast. He was pitching fastballs in the low-90s, but that was with the old measuring system that measured at the plate. His actual throwing velocity at the arm was 94-95mph, so he still had some heat before throwing a 2-seamer or change-up that would be pinpointed while causing batters to buckle at the knees.
Tim wasn't known for his heat.
m.ua-cam.com/video/uZdv-TtiMkg/v-deo.html
... I'm sorry? He threw a 97 MPH 2-seamer@@keithjoseph128
The 3 True Outcomes: watching 2 guys play catch, another guy stand between them waving a stick, and 7 other guys standing around scratching their butts
The Braves beat the Phillies 9-3 on opening day without a homerun. Wasn’t much standing around that day🤷♂️
@@snowyfragrant6029 sounds like a once in a lifetime event
@@shoface1798 in 2017 I went to Phillies/ nationals second game of the season. Phillies scored I believe 13 runs without a homer.
@@SportsPlug-cp1eq nah 100x more enjoyable than football or basketball when u really understand the game.
@@SportsPlug-cp1eq watching Phillies @ nats rn actually
I miss the days when pitchers faced hitters a third time around. Nothing is cooler than a CG
Well, many of these pitchers who can throw 97mph fastballs also have problems locating the strike zone. They get their strikeouts but it may take 7 pitches to get that out. Over time that adds up, and teams don't want starters to throw more than 100 pitches per game.
In the 1970's, no pitcher who was the season leader threw less than 18 complete games. In the 21st century, no team has totaled more than 16 complete games in a season.
An effective pitcher knows how to handle batters the third time through the lineup.
Eovaldi isn't scared of it
Yeah analytics says they shouldn't so teams don't unless he's cruising along and throwing a no no
I have been watching baseball since the 1950s. Yeah, I'm old. Baseball did the right thing, putting a clock in the game. It offsets players stepping out of the batter's box after every pitch to adjust their batting gloves, which we not worn "back in the day". If baseball wanted to make the game truly exciting, they would move the mound back 10 feet and move the fences back 50 feet. The game would be so full of action that they would have to make it an every-other-day sport due to player fatigue. Actually, baseball expert George Will has said that the mound should be moved back, I don't think he was talking about 10 feet, but move it back a couple of feet anyway.
I'm just hoping bananaball will take flight
the mound doesn't need to be moved back, just flattened a little, accomplishes the same goal.
I don’t know. Distances are sacred in baseball. 90 feet between bases is the soul of perfection. But fence distance is fluid. I agree we need more spacious outfields for more exciting games.
baseball looked into this. Theo Epstein said that moving the mound back will cause more issues with sliders and curveballs since they will drop more.
A more simpler solution would be to limit the number of pitchers in a game to 3-4 to force starting pitchers to go longer. It will bring down the velocity and let batters see pitchers the 3rd time through when the batting averages go up by 100 points.
Make the ball out rubber, add pot holes to the outfield, hurdles between 1st 2nd and 3rd, hitting a home run adds a second ball into play like pinball till your side is out, pitcher has to throw both balls at once, put a slip and slide into home and sure let's make it 800 feet to each corner of the outfield and 1000 in the middle.
Ummm..... what else. Play in all weather conditions and when it's a double header I want it to mean two games simultaneously on the same field.
And free drinks for 3min after every walk. Gotta get the crowd into the chaos as well.
It's still early April and already two top tier pitchers have injured their elbow ligaments, Bieber and Strider. And Cole also had a scare. TJ surgery is becoming a plague among pitchers.
As long as we keep prioritizing velocity, this will be the common trend
Ohtani got surgery too
Factually incorrect. 2022 and 2023 had the least amount of TJ surgery in pro baseball since 2016(excluding 2020 for obvious reasons).
if you watched Strider's career so far you knew it was only a matter of time. Dude is built like Greg Maddux but trying to throw like Nolan Ryan.
Watched a game with a pitcher that threw a 90+mph change-up! How is that a change-up?!
Crazy right
You should take a look at Johan Duran of the Twins
If his fastball is 99-102mph, a 90mph pitch would have the same effectiveness as a 95mph fastballer throwing an 87mph changeup.
It's not about throwing soft, but throwing softer to disrupt the rhythm. The real craziness is with the 94-96mph sliders.
Dude all these radar gun readings are elevated by 2-3 MPH compared to pre 2010s even. At least pre 2000s for sure. They’re measuring velo now to show maximum pitch speed since viewers are obsessed with stuff like that. Makes their current players look better.
@@HT-sm9dm I have no idea how true this is but I heard the shift was from measuring the velocity at the point of where the pitcher is releasing vs the speed of the ball when crossing home plate like it used to be. Not sure if that's true or not though. I think it was in a documentary I saw about Nolan Ryan.
The stat-based approach has also changed hitting itself. Stats have decided home runs are of ultimate value. Guys used to have all kinds of variation to their swing but now it seems like most guys have essentially the same swing: load up and try to sock a dinger every time. We used to call this the "hero cut" when I was a kid. Pitching is part of the big rise in K rates but so is this approach. Nobody wants to be Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs these days.
This is a parroted point that I just don't think is true unless you are looking for it. The teams that go far in the playoffs and world series winners all have high batting averages and low strikeout rates aka not "hero cutting".
Also there is still dudes Gwynnin and Boggin every year. Arraez on the Marlins hit .354 with 203 hits last year for example. Plenty of dudes still hit for average and are typically your leadoff/2 guys on the team.
If you focus on dudes who consistently hit 3/4/5 in lineups, then launch angle hero cuts are obviously true, but it always has been since Ruth and Mantle lol.
@@Rudipuagreed. I think the k’s are as much about the pitching as anything. Also, the guys who are hitting 3/4/5 are usually able to hit for average and home runs.
Jeff O'neil does... and even though I hate that he's a Mut, I respect his grind.
@@Rudipu The Gwynn's and Boggs's are few and far between now. Sure Arraez had a great year but when you look at the number of .300+ hitters in a season we only get around 10 now. 20-30 years ago it was 30-50 hitters. Even the overall MLB batting average of .244 is hovering around lowest it's been in history. 6 of the last 7 seasons have been under .250. Before that the last time it was under .250 was 1972. The stats backup bigjared's point. It's a league wide lack of hitting.
@@bdito2161 I still think its just pitching. 20-30 years ago, your average dudes weren't throwing 95mph minimum with 12 inch+ breaking pitches outside of the aces. Now the 4 and 5 pitchers all have nasty stuff and it seems every guy out of the bullpen throws 98 with something gross on the side.
I really do think with the "new" media focus on launch angle and WAR and OPS+, people are just projecting that all hitters care about is stats and sabremetrics say swing big or go home; when in reality it seems quite the opposite amongst most teams. If you focus on the Yankees/Dodgers, which are the only 2 teams in baseball according to a lot of networks, then yeah they load up on those kind of guys 1-9. The diamondbacks, astros, nationals, orioles, rays, guardians, royals all still hit to get on base with the traditional power dudes hitting in the middle.
I don't really follow any teams closely outside of the whitesox and playoff teams, but I'm just not seeing dudes take these wild hacks and trying to get under the ball like I hear in the media all the time. You still even see guys choke up or take quicker swings on 2 strikes just like forever ago.
Greg Maddux said the 4 most important things in order are 1. Movement, 2. Location, 3. Change of speeds, 4. Velocity
Guys nowadays think it's velocity, velocity, velocity, velocity.
It's not guys or kids.Its their coaches telling them that.
@@evielknievel4972 it isn’t really even the coaches either..it’s the sabernerds. Many of which never even played baseball.
Because unless you're in the top 1% of the top 1% of pitchers, no-one cares about anything but velocity.
what do you mean "think?"
on one hand, velocity is the easiest of those characteristics to quantify, so it makes sense that a sport that has become as stats-obsessed as post-bill james major league baseball has focused on the one that's trackable, and whether or not that's the best thing to have done might be worthy of debate
but on the other hand, listen to the numbers in the video - it's working, and it's working well. pitchers throwing faster has sharply decreased the amount of times that their pitches get hit. it's not superstition, it's fact
@@TripleR-kb6uc the video just layed out to you how the super fast pitching is beating the sport and your conclusion is that the people saying it don't know what they're talking about?
200 years from now:
"Are 175 mph fast balls too fast for the average hitter? We are seeing record high strike outs"
And a staff that has two starters that go no more than two innings, and the rest all relievers/closers🤣
Yeah, with cyborg arms! 😂
As a big MLB Fan, this season has been so frustrating. I'm sick of seeing endless strikeouts and weak contact. Almost all batters better swing at that first pitch if it's a strike because once you get 2 strikes you've basically had it with the spin rate, movement that the pitchers have now.
lets be real it will be more like no more baseball cause its to dangerous ;D
And bunt homers are at an all time high!
Jimmy Piersall has a short, empassioned interview on youtube about what he thought was wrong with baseball (back in 1989). He claimed in the video that weight programs were causing the increase in injuries, and I think he was on to something. Sure, there are outliers like Nolan Ryan, who was a big weightlifter; but on the whole, I'm not sure these guys are getting the recovery they need, are not strengthening their ligaments/tendons, and are pushing themselves too hard. Its all a complicated issue, and I suspect diet may play a part in some players' downfall as well.
It's in an indirect manner. If you look at how the UCL always stretches beyond a certain velocity it's the velocity that is the direct cause. Weight training is the indirect cause because it allows more pitchers to reach those UCL stretching velocities that they could naturally. If you go to a top fuel drag race you'll see 4 second passes and speeds over 300mph. You'll also see a lot of breakdowns. But if you offer fans the chance to see that or races between more reliable stock, Toyota Camrys they'll choose the unreliable dragsters.
Side note I believe the push towards the two handed follow throughs are why we're seeing more spinal issues in position players. The two handed follow through requires more movement in the vertebra than letting the front shoulder finish the job.
bro said lifting weights causes more injuries lmfao it's more about your second point which is recovery. Not allowing for good recovery means as you said tendons and ligaments (UCL's) can't heal properly then eventually they pop.
This is absolute nonsense - A proper strength and conditioning program will do nothing but benefit your connective tissue, not hurt it.
The key word here is proper.
No disrespect to Jimmy Piersall, but he didn’t know what the hell he was talking about….
@@joerapoperhaps it’s the entire body getting too strong which generates too much torque that the arm ligaments cannot handle
Training smarter could help. Ryan did alot of weight training, bit he also worked his stabilizer muscles with things like rice bucket training. He didn't use rice, instead he'd punch into a barrel of grain. Movements like that strengthen flexor muscles that support the tendons and ligaments.
I can't be the only one who noticed the name on one of the referenced articles. Gabe laques 😂
Was looking to see. Hahahaa
His parents knew exactly what they were doing 😂
I skimmed the comments looking to see if someone had mentioned it. LOL
Batters are also swinging for the fences more and more. Launch angle has mattered more than connecting and getting a base hit.
Just a game of homers and strikeouts right now.
Yup, even small guys who traditionally would have been focusing on a high BA are now swinging for the fences
pitchers saved balls and proved they are screwing with the balls over the years. It's about pleasing fans not historical integrity of the game
. also buncha juicers
This point is parroted so much and I just don't find it to be true.
Yeah if you focus on guys that typically hit 4/5 (power hitters) its true, but its always been true back to the 50s lol.
The teams that always go deep in the playoffs and win the world series always are in the top end of batting average and low end of strikeouts. The exception being the Braves in 21 who had high average, high SO.
There is certainly a higher focus on launch angles in broadcasts in recent years after a homerun, but I would hardly call it a plague affecting baseball. Still plenty of run manufacturing done around the league, especially amongst the better teams.
I pitched since I was 11. At 14-15 I was throwing around 75. I moved, and joined a rec league because tryouts were already finished. Because of my velo I was pitching most games and despite the pitch cap, throwing at my max velo every game screwed me up so badly. Rotator cuff issues, shoulder blade issues, forearm issues, and eventually weakness, numbness, tremoring, pins and needles in my finger tips. I was told after seeing a sports doc that I had a hole through the middle of my UCL (Tommy john). Take care of yourselves out there guys, don't throw junk while you're still growing, and don't overtrain and over practice. Just because you're told you can pitch 4 innings doesn't mean you always should. Health before wealth, I don't wish my arm issues on anyone.
This may be counterintuitive, but what's needed is a heavier workload on starting pitchers. The mentality now is throw as hard as you can for as long as you can, then let the next guy come in and do the same thing. If you're expecting the starter to go at least seven innings, and, yes, even complete a few games, this forces the starter to pace himself, to find a comfortable working speed, getting outs with location and movement, then reach back for that little extra when needed. 120 pitches at 80% effort is going to do less arm damage than 70-80 pitches at 100%.
The counterargument I hear all the time is "But the hitters now are too good, everybody in the lineup can hit a home run, you need to go all out with every batter." First of all, we need to get rid of the DH, the opposing pitcher's at bat provides a much-needed break. Second, a slower pitch is harder to take deep than a faster one, the batter needs to generate more bat speed instead of letting the pitcher do all the work. This means that a pitcher who can change velocity can make a batter who is only interested in home runs look awfully foolish.
I would propose requiring a pitcher to remain in the game (barring injury) for at least six innings while the possibility of a quality start still exists. I would also change the three batter minimum to requiring the reliever to remain in the game until either the end of the inning or until a run scores, this could be one batter, or it could be four of five. Seems more natural than an artificial arbitrary number.
To me fewer pitchers equals better pacing, which leads to fewer injuries, and also leads to more exciting (i.e. less TTO) baseball.
So basically the Japanese way. Starting pitchers are considered warriors over there. Pitchers at the top of the rotation are expected to give as little work for their bullpens as possible in their start days, or even a day off, even if it costs a few earned runs and winning decisions for said top pitchers.
I'm with you on the DH, but it will never go away.
Im sorry but no. If you look at the stats for hitters on their third time facing the same pitcher their OBP is easily over 400 so its just dumb to make pitchers pitch
Also the thing about making the pitcher do the work is only true to a point. If you look at the data there are barely any HR hit off of super hard fastballs because of how much vertical movement they have. Just because its "slow" for mlb standards doesn't mean the ball still won't fly off the bat because its going 90 mph
@@cubsfanman-nx6pg The thing about stats is that they are only numbers. If pitchers throw as hard as they can, they are typically starting to tire out by the third time through. If they paced a bit they would still have their stuff.
@@matthewgreiner2766 Or they'd be pulled from the game two innings earlier because they'd have given up 5 runs and a dozen hits because they were throwing softer, easier to hit pitches.
This has been an arms race for a long time, and just remember: 2023's runs/game was at the same rate as it was in 2002, during the Steroid Era. Batters have gotten a whole lot better over the years, pitching has pulled ahead by a bit with the focus on spin rates and velocity, but not by all that much.
So why were games well under 3 hours in the 70's, 80's and decades prior? The fact that some pitchers were taking a minute in between pitches was ridiculous. There were batters that stepped out and readjusted their batting gloves after taking a pitch and not even swinging. BTW, the pitch clock is not a new rule in baseball, it's a very old rule that was never enforced and the technology (lack of) made it difficult to ever follow through with it. The pitch clock is not the problem, although it should not be decreased any. MLB needs to leave it and not shorten the time in between pitches even more.
Years ago pitchers pitched well over 100 pitches a game and went well past 5 innings a game. Today we see the "magic" number 100 and when that started, it was the ruination of pitchers. Now we have pitchers that are tired after 5 innings and if they go longer, the manager usually takes them out as soon as they are near 100 pitches. Combine pitchers not being stretched out to go past 100 pitches regularly, add in increased velocity and take into account the fact that pitchers are adding new pitches to their repertoire, and you have a recipe for disaster.
Pitchers need to tone down the velocity a little bit, be stretched out to go past 100 pitches and be allowed to pitch past 5 or 6 innings regularly. Pitchers did it years ago and they didn't "burn out" and they definitely didn't suffer injuries the way we are seeing today. We are seeing far too many specialists in baseball pitching and it's created a lack of arm stamina for pitchers. No more limit of 100 pitches and no more pulling pitchers out after 5 or 6 innings. Keep the pitch clock, maybe add a couple of seconds and leave the other new rules in place and we will continue to see the return of fans to baseball. Hopefully, it will one day be our "National Pastime" once again. Besball has been berry, berry, good to me.
ion know nothing abt baseball so now wonder my parlays get sold by going over because these mfs be on the bench for rest of the game shit be crazy
This is probably the best analysis of the problem I have seen to date. One thing was missing. As a pitcher when you know that at 100 or basically the third time around you are done. So you throw as hard as you can for that short amount of time. If you know that you will pitch as long as you are effective, mentally you know you need to pace. Sort of like the difference between running a mile and a marathon.
You answered your own question when you brought up pitchers pitching well over 100 pitches. The pitch clock was brought in to counter the dozens of pitching changes per game that slowed the game to a crawl.
@@matthewgreiner2766
Great point. 👍
This videos needs to have AT LEAST 100k MORE views then it has now
Correct me if wrong, the power pitching movement is a response to the steroids era offense, and the TTO increase is the attempt to improve run production in response to the power pitching movement. Just the fact that teams across the board are putting more power arms on their roster probably means it's easier to throw max effort right down the middle and get away with it than finesse your way to get outs, though I don't have the data to back this up. All sports are trending towards higher efficiency, not just baseball.
This is the truth.
Yeah, pitching may reach a point where throwing harder has diminishing returns if the injuries reduce longevity to a certain point.
In the NFL, this point is kinda moot since longevity is so short, esp for RB. Maybe the demand for throwing faster will mean salaries are so high that pitches still go for it.
Luckily for the sport, the best pitchers are not always the hardest throwing. There will always be a place for the artful pitcher who finds a way, whether by changing speeds/planes/arm angle or whatever, finds a way to mess the batter up consistently.
If a Maddox, or "worse", Jamie Moyer comes up now, does he even get a chance?
@@joelwexler Maddux would absolutely still be fine, he was adaptable and crafty af. All pitchers are products of their time, they use what works. If Maddux came nowadays, he would adapt to what gets major league hitters out.
I mean, Lance Lynn and Mark Buehrle also had success in recent seasons. Greinke, Kuchel, Ryu, Glavine, Schilling late in his career.
You also have to remember that bullpens can be more successful when put out relievers with contrasting pitching styles. Tampa Bay has been great at that, having all sorts of weird arm angles, and styles of pitchers.
I highly doubt that pitchers could reach 120mph without the aid of performance enhancing drugs or some future type of surgery. And if the injuries to pitchers continue to get worse, I don’t think all pitchers would just blindly push forward with this trend of “lift heavier, throw harder”. Pitchers are more cerebral than on average than other baseball players and wouldn’t want to just play two seasons throwing extreme gas then not being able to throw anymore.
@@joelwexler The army is already using those existing-skeleton type braces on the legs/hips of soldiers to let them lift heavier weights with ease. But the rotator cuff is the most complex joint in the body.
There is no surgery possible at the moment to repair a torn rotator cuff while preserving the range of motion, and that range of motion is crucial for pitching. The elbow is a simpler joint and even then, pitchers can only really have two Tommy John surgeries and after that, when the elbow is done, they retire.
Therefore, it’s super unlikely we’ll see any sort of surgery that would allow super-human rotator cuff strength. The complex anatomy of that joint may be one of the main factors in limiting how hard pitchers can throw. It’s interesting regardless, who knows what kinda training or technique future players might come up with.
Right now, seems like Japan might be producing the best pitchers. The way Yamamoto throws heat with his stature, effortless delivery. And the way Japanese pitchers use sinkers, which might be the pitch of 2024. They seem to know what’s up when it comes to pitching mechanics!
Yeah but if a team has a 4 year contract with a pitcher, they can just wear out their arm and then they’re some other team’s problem to deal with
@@thomaspoorman4218 they could do that but word would spread about that sort of pitching culture and it would hurt the team. If all teams do that then it’s more a players union issue.
The league is taking notice of the injury trend, I hope they take it seriously and find some solutions. Sadly, MLB reallly loves to pimp the flamethrowers as a draw since they are worried about baseball being too boring.
What’s hurting pitchers arms is they are not taught at an early age the importance of leg drive. Pitchers work on their upper body strength and forget the most important muscles are in their legs. The very best example of leg drive is Nolan Ryan. Watch how his back leg bends straight down and then drives him towards the plate. Compare him to anyone else, he had a great arm but he had even greater legs. This is the reason why he could pitch in the upper 90’s in his mid 40’s. BTW the circle change was what made him a Hall of Famer though.
In the case of UCL injuries, it's elbow torque. It's just the result of the arm being at the end of the kinetic chain in the throwing motion. Emphasizing leg drive is either going to do nothing to solve the issue because the pitcher is already doing it, or it will outright make it worse because said pitcher can now send more energy through their kinetic chain and into their elbows. That's why injuries correlate with velocity.
@@gliiitched totally understand, never put my arm in that position for rotation.
I used to throw the discus. You generate the power with your lower body and let the energy flow through your arm. Im big so I started out muscling it but threw way farther by learning the technique of using my legs.
Ryan and Seaver were taught the same way. But pitchers come in all shapes and sizes.
@@philstaniscia7103 size doesn’t stop anyone from learning to use their legs properly.
There are more strikeout because there are no contact hitters anymore. The batter hits a home run or a strikeout. Zero or hero.
imho those are boring games. i'd rather games with weaker pitchers and hitters so that the ball stay in the field and people are running.
Exactly.
Days are gone
The Fing Royals made the WS in 2014 hitting like 98 total hr's that season. Then again their D and pitching lead the way but damn they played small ball well
As a lifelong Texas Rangers fan I can think back to the time when they had 2 outstanding young pitching prospects in their farm system, Brian Allard and Danny Darwin..
I remember farm director Joe Klein talking about the fact that Danny Darwin's fastball had been clocked as high as 93 mph.
A legit flame thrower. Things have changed a lot in the past 45 years 😅
Unfortunately, the damage starts at a young age these days. Travel ball has gotten younger and more out of control. Parents living vicariously through their children pushing for them to be the absolute best 10 year old pitcher in their league for a relatively meaningless season in a declining game. I'm a nurse practitioner who has worked in orthopedics for the majority of my career now. I started in hand surgery, which is a misnomer because I really specialized in everything from the shoulder down. The reality is no kid should throw competitively year round. Pitchers should have at least 3 months of rest. If the kid plays catcher, then he really shouldn't be pitching and vice versa. Kid's should also continue to play more than one sport to develop other muscular groups, coordination and overall athleticism. We are also seeing an epidemic of ACL/Knee injuries in girls sports, particularly soccer and basketball because of a lack of development other actives use to provide to single sport kids. Girls sports really got the club game going and made single sport focus the fad that it's become. We are seeing this in almost every sport now, from the youth ranks through the pros. So many pro athletes can't stay healthy to save their lives. Look at what's happened to the running back position in professional football. They train year round. Our bodies were never designed to be that big, that fast and trained that relentlessly year round...then take the beating of an NFL season. Over training is a serious problem. I see athletic trainers doing this with their athletes constantly. If you want to build speed, you don't have the kids sprint at 100% any more than 2-3 days per week max. You should have them alternating speeds when they are training and progress through various intervals. Long story short, it's time to let kids be kids again. Encourage multiple sport participation and try to keep things fun. You don't have to throw hard to be a great pitcher. Teach them control, a good change up and to work the corners. Breaking pitches are unnecessary in the youth ranks. Stop letting uneducated coaches teach kids bad habits. I appreciate parents willing to volunteer their time but they should understand their limitations and not introduce techniques, habits or concepts they don't fully understand the consequences of (the curveball for example).
Here in my area 19 year old Nazier Mule (Chicago Cubs draft pick straight out of high school), and his much vaunted 100 MPH fastball went down last season with a UCL tear requiring Tommy John surgery. He has yet to throw a single pitch at the Major League level, and he's already broken. Sure, he can make a comeback, but who wants to start a race from last place?
Oh, you haven’t heard the new meta? Gotta get that TJ surgery out of the way early…make sure the doctor puts some extra beefy pieces back in that thing…and you’ll be throwing even harder!
(Note: don’t do/believe this kids. This was said in jest, but some will say it’s true.)
@@extragoogleaccount6061 Oh I've heard this nonsense. Apparently TJ surgery is now supposed to be an off-season routine.
"start a race from last place" is a bit dramatic when you're 19 and getting paid to sit around.
@@todhold2673 Paid to sit around? How long do you think he's gonna continue to get paid to sit around? Some years ago 17 year old 6 foot 5 inch, lefty pitcher Kelvin De La Cruz was signed by the Indians. He had TJ surgery, sat around, and career was OVER. He went on to spend 8 years in the minors, and 7 playing ball in D.R. and Mexico. Yeah, paid to sit around huh? A million dollar signing bonus after taxes is gone in 2 years.
Lotta factors here -- I also think when pitch count became demonized for pitcher health and longevity, it encouraged pitchers to redline every pitch. Back when starters were going deep into games every start they weren't going all out on every fastball they threw.
They should be like in F1, you can change the pitcher if it get an injury, but the team gets a penalty. I am sure they will trade off speed for less injury to avoid penalties. Just like in F1 they now build robust reliable engines over more powerfull ones (but less reliable) just to avoid penalties
This is a great video and I understand the point you are making with Maddux as he had incredible command of and movement on all of his pitches, but there is a bit of revisionist history with him going on in general. I'm not just talking about your video, but about the way that people speak about him in general. There's this myth of him as some bespectacled, professorial pitching genius who never threw hard.
He was not, for the prime of his career when he was an elite pitcher (probably the very best pitcher in baseball), some soft-tossing starter. The dude had a notably above average fastball for his entire peak by the standards of that era. He was touching 94 or 95 and sitting at 92 or 93 with his fastball when the league average fastball for right-handed starters was barely 90. He wasn't Randy Johnson, but the guy threw hard enough to blow it by you if you tried to sit on his slower stuff. It was absolutely a key part of how he got guys out.
His velocity allowed his breaking ball and changeup to be more deceptive because he had enough juice to force people to get ready for the fastball. When he lost velocity he became less deceptive and he was just average or maybe a tick above as a pitcher. His command and movement are what separated him from other guys who threw similarly hard or harder, but if he'd always just been a soft-tosser then he'd be a pretty average or maybe slightly above-average starter.
Dude seriously everyone talks about Maddux like hes a soft tosser just because we only have good pitch speed date from when he was like 35
Another reason strikeouts keep going up is the approach hitters take.
Many more hitters are swinging for the fences in situations where they didn't 30+ years ago.
The majority of players used to shorten up and just try to put the ball in play with 2 strikes or hit behind the runner to move them to 3rd with less than 2 outs.
Im 22 now but when I was about 15 my little brother was on a state championship little league team and the pitcher was the best in the whole state throwing 70+mph at 12 yrs old and by the end of the season he was having full blown shoulder surgery and doc said he will probably never throw competitively again. 12 years old man, shoulder gone. Ive had injuries as well so it hits home to know these kids are training to hurt themselves. I know very little about baseball but it seems like we should force the pitchers to stay in even longer? Make it impossible to be throwing that fast all game and start teaching young children to throw the ball differently because fast isnt sustainable for a full game. Who knows, would like to see a change tho.
The goat is back. Excited for videos this season.
…… he has 4 total vids wtaf r u talkin about
Circumstantial proof this channel is a content mill in progress
177 views is crazy for this video you definitely deserve more bro keep it up
Thanks Man! Appreciate it
Ooh he did get some and more
this shit blew up lmao
My favorite part of baseball is the pitching, the movement, the strategy, watching pitchers develop and change overtime...and now its all fastballs and injuries. I was in high school when Maddux was with the Cubs and watching him target pitches, pitches with movement was unbelievable.
"The average baseball pitch speed of a fastball (thrown by an MLB pitcher) ranges from 92-93 miles per hour (148-149 kilometers per hour). Even some pitchers already reached speeds up to 100 mph or more."
"- Pitcher’s Mound to Home Plate Distance (feet): 60.5
- Pitch Time (seconds): 0.47."
One possible solution is to move the mound back like 6 feet so that it's in the actual center of the diamond. As a trade-off, you can raise the mound back to what it was before they lowered it in the 1960s. This would be a pretty drastic change, though, and I don't see it ever happening. But one thing to consider is the safety factor-- both hitters and pitchers would have a little more time reacting to balls coming directly at them.
The biggest argument against this solution is that this can have an negative effect on the hitter, since a curveball with an extra feet to break would be down right nasty.
@@randomstuff508Sounds like fun
Thank you, great video. I’ve noticed this as well even as a casual baseball fan. It seemed like when I was growing up there really weren’t that many good pictures and the reliever/closer was becoming more emphasized. Now it seems like the starter goes four, or five innings- then there’s a middle reliever then a left-handed specialist and, then another set up man and then the closer comes in to finish off the game
You can also see this trend in the amount of home runs being hit as well. From the 90's on, home runs have been steadily rising along with the pitch speed metrics. You could also argue the hotter on average games have become, the higher the average bat exit speed velocity. There are so many factors, but the game has certainly changed from chess-like pitching strategy to brute force; more strikeouts and more home runs.
Pitchers are also being taught an increased assortment of pitches, which places extra stress on the arm. Where once the average starting pitcher threw a fastball, a curve, a slider and a change-up, it's common now to see someone feature six or eight pitches. This is what team scouts and management are looking for. And of course, as this video points out, emphasizing sheer velocity and developing training regimens to achieve increases in that department brings young prospects closer to the threshold of injury.
5 sec 20 sec or 20 hrs isn't going to help recovery. It's the spin rate + velocity that will destroy your arm.
Very true! Velocity will always be a main factor for injury, especially when that's being prioritized more and more in the MLB
No, intent and suboptimal mechanics with overclocking destroy your arm
Actually it does to a degree. When a pitcher throws, especially a MLB pitcher throwing 90+, it slams a ton of blood into the forearm and hand. The recovery period for that blood to flow back isn't as fast as you think it is. However you are correct that the emphasis towards both spin rate and velocity play a huge role in itself. I used to throw in the upper 80's and even tickled the low 90's sometimes, and I can assure you that not having time for that blood to come back through the arm is a factor.
@@JLewis1979 horseshit
You also need to know that the way the pitch speed is measured. The pitches used to be measured 10 ft from the plate, now it's 50 ft from the plate. An 85 mph pitch in 1980 was actually low 90s.
That is irrelevant.
He didn’t mention velocity from the 1980s for comparison.
You were just looking for a reason to mention that erroneous point. Way to go
@@BB-fo5mrit's not irrelevant because there were plenty of guys who threw hard. They clock you right out of the hand now, that's not a true indicator
Thank you for stating the obvious. I understand that.
It’s irrelevant, in terms of the point being made.
This has gone over your heads
@@BB-fo5mr I love it when a narcissist states their very clear "opinion" as if it's a fact.
I have the solution. First, limit teams to ten pitchers, and eliminate the practice of calling up a pitcher to start one game, then sending him back to the minors. Also, require that any pitcher called to the majors must remain on the roster for two weeks. Finally, allow position players to pitch only in extremely lopsided games.
This will result in pitchers having to pitch a lot more innings, therefore conserving themselves and not throwing so hard. This will mean fewer injuries, and less pitcher domination.
They might also consider what they did in 1969, and lower the mound a bit.
And I would eliminate every rule change that has occurred during the Manfred regime. He has done nothing, absolutely nothing, for the game, with two exceptions. He got us a season in 2020, and he managed to get a CBA. Other than that, the man has done nothing but damage this great game.
I'd love to see them go back to 1970. No Designated Hitter, which is an abomination, and no second place teams in the post season.
I could go on! Excellent, informative video!
Thank you. I haven't been able to sleep. A couple minutes of this video, and I was out like a light.
Its bc the flamethrowers aren't sat up there set waiting on you to lift your second foot into the box...
great video bro keep up the good work
Thanks bro! I'll keep them coming
just started watching MLB this year and my eyes are glued to Yamamoto. He's 3 games into the season and I think he's doing okay. I get excited whenever he gets a strikeout, there's this thrill when he gets the batter with his splitter/curveball.
I was always wondering why something feels lacking whenever I watch full matches, then I realized, from a batter fans' point of view, it gets kinda boring if the batters keep on getting striked out. But it's also fun when the entire stadium screams if people go run for the bases or try to steal one. I also remember that game where Ichiro threw a ball to the third base, outing the runner, that was crazy. Seeing this video got me worried, saying how there's more strikeouts than hits and the TTOs are getting higher compared to the previous years. Hope everything goes well for the MLB
(sorry if I didn't get some of the technical words right lol)
My 10 year old son is his 12u and 10u teams best pitcher. I was not a “baseball dad.” We were a football family. But he was good at baseball so I let him play it but never would do the traveling teams. Just his regular team, until I was talked into letting him “play up” when he was 8 years old on a 10u team.
And that’s when I saw how bad it can get.
Again my kid was 8. And I didn’t know shit about baseball, and this team was a middle of the road team who had a very nice guy for head coach. A guy I was friends with from way back.
However, after their older pitcher kept having mental meltdowns and the other older pitcher couldn’t throw a strike to save his life, he called on my son. That was the very first game of the season.
My son pitched in every single game the rest of the season but 2.
The pitch count was not changed for his age, and even if it was, an 8 year old should not be throwing 85 pitches a game every 2-3 days.
At the time I didn’t know, I just was happy for my boy to be pitching and overcoming nervousness of throwing to kids much older and bigger then he.
But then a few months after the season ended, he played football, and was quarterback, and that’s when the pain started. Long story short luckily for us the doctor caught it in time and we rested him and his arm the rest of the year while doing intense rehab. I let him play baseball still, but his coaches are now told by me that he does not throw over 50 pitches ever, and if he’s throwing, he’s getting a full 4 days rest.
Dont let these coaches fuck your kids up
This video reminds me I’m not the only one whose heart breaks when my feed shows a hs kid throwing high nineties.
What is crazy is Leo Mazzonne the former Braves pitching coach. Had the pitchers doing more on their off days than any other coach in the history of the game, but those horses he had never got hurt. I think it is several things causing the injuries, the commissioner is clueless to think it is just one thing causing it.
The documentary Fastball noted that the human eye is not fast enough to focus, predict where the ball is going, and get the bat on the ball from 60' 6" away (it's closer than that when measured from the release point). Most 100+ mph pitches are out of the strike zone, so, unless the hitter has two strikes, if they sense the pitch is that fast, they should just let it go - easier said than done. However, if the documentary is right and 100 mph becomes more common with accuracy, the solution might be to move the mound back.
Who’s here after the Strider/Beiber news
Prayers up. Baseball has a pitching problem
Sounds like the roids have gotten better.😮
Thank god as a Nationals fan Stras was able to give us that 2019 postseason. Deserved his World Series mvp. Was an absolute phenom when he was called but but even back in 2010 people were talking about his inverted W throwing motion and a year later he has Tommy John
Stras really gave his career for that world series. What a legend. Probably no HoF, but definitely deserves a big ass bronze statue. I just hope he'll be able to get some range of motion back for a well deserved retirement life ❤
Great video, amazing how things have progressed in 20 plus years since i last played.
Not gonna lie man , the biggest mistake you made with this video was putting Alek manoah in the same category as Ohtani , Kershaw , Scherzer etc. 😂
Yeah, kind of sticks out next to all those champions & Hall of Famers...
Do you normally lie?
@@BC-th3mxAgreed, so it's a good thing he didn't place them next to those guys.
...Except he didn't. He included him in a completely different category, "young talent making strong impressions," next to Ohtani and Strider.
Side note: the former of whom will not be pitching (I predict at all, anymore) and latter who is now injured. Anyway, it's not like he grouped them all together as proven champions and HOFers, so maybe you actually _did_ lie, if indirectly. ;)
Not really manoah had a dominant year before he went south he had good numbers and even went to the all star
I've said this for many years. Pull back the pitcher's mound distance from home plate at least 5-10 feet to facilitate more play on the field while decreasing the innings from 9 to 7 for time constraints. Baseball has devolved into just a pitcher/batter duel when viewers really want to see home runs and more action on the field. At the end of the day, if the game is not entertaining for the fans, it will die off and that is what we are witnessing. Too many diehard fans stuck to tradition and resistant to change will kill it off in my opinion.
First off baseball isn't dying. Its extremely popular in Japan and pretty much every Latin American country.
Not everyone wants to see more balls in play. Maybe some do but in my opinion a rollover to third base is way more boring than a strikeout on a filthy curveball
I agree with the pace of play but shortening the innings wouldn't help at all. The problem is that 9 innings used to take 2 hours and now it takes 3. We still want 9 innings but we dont want it to take 3 hours
Problem is baseball.
Every sport has a problem when money or skill becomes more important than health and excitement to watch, and this is a problem facing almost every sport today, just like the entertainment industry is facing a crisis, sports is as well. We have taken one aspect of development too far, and done too little do develop other aspects and that is always going to be a problem.
The only solution is an awareness of value which can create for greater balance, but such a awareness can threaten the entire system and sport in general as there is a cause for concern for people who prioritize anything over their physical and mental health, relationships and long term progress.
Great video as this is a important issue to be aware of which was explained very well in my opinion.
This is a well thought out video with stats to support your narrative. Well done.
When golfers starting hitting farther courses like Augusta moved the tee boxes back. Does the mlb need too do the same and move the mound back? Would that help?
This was my fiest thought. Move the mound back 1 or 2ft. Increases the relative importance of accuracy.
Billy Bean and Sabermetrics have ruined baseball. Bean hasn't won shit, either
True, but imagine Beane with money and you have the Houston Astros...
I loved "Whitey Ball" in St. Louis back in the 80s. Bunts, double steals, hit and run. That was exciting baseball to watch. But Sabermetrics says those things don't pay off, even though the Cardinals went to the World Series three times in the 80s. I quit watching long ago.
Lets be honest, baseball can't afford to lose any excitement in the games. It may be more predictable but watching more home runs and strike outs is pretty exciting. When Barry Bonds was either going yard or getting walked on every at bat, it still was very exciting to watch and the viewership numbers reflected that.
Great production, and information! I hope your channel grows, you deserve it!
I hope so too!
Why don’t they just move the pitcher back?
lol that’d change everything to much
It would likely increase contact rates on fastballs, however with today’s breaking balls it might be even more difficult to hit.
Imagine what these pitches can do with these spin rates with a few opportunities for revolutions
@@supergaga1712 Wouldn’t that also increase the occurrence of balls too though? Or do you think they’d be able to keep it in the strike zone (or make batters swing and miss) from further out while simultaneously making it more ambiguous to hit?
We need a Maddux resurgence
That was beautiful!
Loving your content! Such high quality for such low sub count lets fix that! Thank!
My tournament coaches growing up would have me throw complete games every tournament because if i was on the mound we won. Age 13 throwing 100 pitches, or more if it went into extra innings. Had to have multiple surgeries in college for bone chips. Doctor said my bones didnt fully develop.
Maybe they had beer money riding on your performance.
Very well made video
appreciate the kind words!
Baseball is the only sport where players are encouraged (implicitly demanded) to go max effort 100% of the time. This is the fault of the general managers and the head coaches who have essentially told amateur pitchers that the only way to get to the show is to push their arms to an unhealthy degree.
Baseball is definently not the only sport that does that lol what are you on
@@cubsfanman-nx6pg Compelling argument.
Most people look at baseball as a bunch of guys standing around for 3 hours with a few spurts of action and lots of spitting. I get it, when they’re playing they are at 100%.
Great video but some of the strikeout vs hitting goes to a newer approach from batters to the plate. Instead of putting contact hitters first in lineup people have been putting big hitters that either strike out or hit a homer as their first 5 batters. I think the bigger issues with pitching injury's is the windup and flicking their elbow. They are flicking their elbow to get extra velocity but their body cant handle it. Windups in the past were long and used legs power verses arm power like they do now.
Strikeouts are rising because batters no longer focus on contact. They want Home Runs or Walks.....Sabermetrics has killed the gsme...
Need to take care of those delicate pitching arms. Unless you’re Aroldis.
Viewership increased because of broadcasting into Japan and Korea. Maybe ??
I find it humorous that you were showing footage of Maddox pitching for Atlanta against Chicago, the two teams he played for.
Okay, few things.
1: Spin Rate is one of the things that's been heavily focused on lately, not just velocity. It's not just that fastballs and sliders and curveballs and changeups are coming in faster, they're also spinning more with much greater movement. It's one of the things that's putting so much work on the elbow.
Hell, remember the ball doctoring thing from a few years ago? That was all about boosting spin rate (its a great way to add a few mph to your fastball, for example). Just saying "velocity" is missing a massive part of the equation, probably the biggest one really.
2: Pitchers have gotten better, but offenses have as well. Comparing Hits to Strikeouts is a terrible idea, because part of the reason strikeouts are up is because players have been taught that a strikeout isn't any worse than a pop-up. They're swinging to protect less often, taking closer pitches, and waiting for a pitch they can do damage on instead of trying to avoid a strikeout looking.
Now, batters haven't gotten better at the same rate pitching has. But if pitchers went back to throwing like they did in the 80s and 90s, when velocity and spin rate were down but precision was up? Offense around the league would explode. They'd throw just as many pitches, if not more, to get through fewer innings, because they'd just give up more hits.
That's the really ugly part of this whole mess. Its easy to point at the causes, there's a lot of them. But solutions? The best solutions people have come up with is basically "just pitch worse" and "don't train as often". But that 95 mph fastball isn't going to get batters out at the same rate as a 99 mph fastball with an extra two inches of movement, and if you don't get the guy out, you're going to end up throwing more pitches...
I wish everybody realized this. Its not degrom throwing 101 that got him hurt its him throwing a 93 mph slider that spun I dont even want to know how much
Also pitchers throw like that because its most efficient. If it was better to throw at 90% for 9 innings they would do it but it's not
A more sinnical view is - teams are ok with burning and churning pitchers now and are no longer interested in safeguarding a pitcher for the mong run - instead kooking at a 4-5 year stint.
This means changing mechanics when pitchers are drafted to dramatically increase speed - no matter the effects on the arm.
In the 90’s-early 2000’s a 95mph fastball was considered a blazing fastball. Most top pitchers threw 93-95. Now guy’s sliders & cutters are 92mph & their fastballs are 99-101. Pitching puts way more stress on the arm & shoulder than any other sport. Now guys have gotten bigger & stronger but the connective tissue is the weak link in the chain.
Greg Maddux, one of the best even probably topped out at 92 in his hey-day but his sinker was like 87mph & he was still winning games. I live flame throwers but many rely om velocity like Noah Sydergaard who wasn’t the same after surgery. Chris Bassitt who my Mets stupidly let go is like a poor man’s Maddux. He tops out at 92-93 but throws nasty breaking balls & knows how to pitch. He’s like 35-36 & still going strong. DeGrom is so nasty but he was injured for parts of 3 years once he hit his mid-30’s before Mets let him walk. The Rangers gave him a huge contract but he blew out his arm again. At least it wasn’t his shoulder which is worse than an elbow arguably. The fact is that he doesn’t need to throw full bore all the time. He’d still be great at 80%.
Anyway, as entertaining as velocity is it’s risky. Pitchers need to learn how to pitch & rely less on velocity which will help with longevity. A perfect example would be former Mets pitcher Big Sexy Bartolo Colon. He was a power pitcher but remade himself as he hit his mid to late 30’s after he could no longer thrown 95mph fastballs. His fastball was 89 but he was still pitching into his forties. Beautiful pitching is beautiful pitching even if it doesn’t light up the radar gun.
exactly. there were always a few outliers like Randy Johnson and Roger Clemens who consistently threw in the high 90s but those guys also knew how to pitch. These days 95 was nothing but most of those guys are just trying to throw as hard as they can for an inning without any real idea of where the ball is going.
Back in Greg Maddux day he was throwing slightly harder than league average so please dont say be was just someone who threw slow because in today's game he'd be really comparable to Aaron nola.
Throws league average speed but has a filthy 2 seamer.
@@cubsfanman-nx6pg slightly harder than league average doesn't make him a flame thrower.
Maddux was an incredible pitcher and is absolutely brilliant.
I think the statement “batters can’t keep up or be competitive” is not really true. If so I think we would see a noticeable decline in runs/game, which we don’t. Batters have gotten better in my opinion and have shifted their focus from singles and stolen bases to doubles and home runs. There’s a common idea that a strike out is better than a short appearance GO or FO, and definitely better than a double play. Pitchers use to be able to go deep in games because their pitch count was lower since they got more soft outs early in the plate appearance. Most hitters are so good that if you give them a softer fastball almost anywhere in the zone, they can crush it. So a pitcher has to keep up their velocity to not constantly get crushed. I agree that velocity will likely platue and at that point I think batters will further outpace pitchers.
Injury should not be the reason the pitch clock should be removed, I for 1 enjoy the pitch clock, it will force pitchers to adapt and not just gas every pitch, by having an extra pitcher to keep gassing pitches will cost teams in batting, injuries are part of the game so mitigating them is also a part of the game too.
With max effort velo, spin rates, and wiffs being the main commodity scouts look for, and more teams trending towards developing pitchers to maximize those skills I don't see how this is going to get any better in the future.
Especially when pitching to contact is artificially made harder via the shift restrictions, teams that stress pitching over throwing and keeping their guys healthy in lieu of high strikeout rates are always going to lose. It's not something the league can regulate either and I wouldn't want them to. I already hate pitch timers and shift restrictions, if the league proposes a 'speed limit' of sorts to keep guys healthy it will be the last nail in the coffin to killing the game.
You present this like is a fixable problem but teams have already seen how much more effective high velocity throwers are then lower velocity so atp we cannot go back. We are approaching the upper limit of what’s humanly possible but it’s up to the hitters to catch up which I think they have a bit the last few years pitch clock saved baseball.
Baseball has a problem because the only potential solutions are going to increase the likelihood of player injuries. Every team has multiple relievers that can throw upper 90s and even more sitting in AAA that could do so when someone goes down.
As a result, managers are pulling starters faster than ever and using more pitchers per game. Pitchers are well-documented for not faring as well the third time through the lineup and managers know this. Many relievers can throw hard for 3 batters, but not for much longer than that before they tire out.
But if baseball instituted some sort of rule to force managers to use even less pitching, the players' association will (likely correctly) disagree because more usage is likely to increase injuries, and managers will complain (also likely correctly) that handcuffing them will reduce their strategic options in the game.
The issue that the video correctly identifies is that pitchers are incentivized -- even forced (if they want to pitch in the majors) -- to throw harder and harder, which then leads to more pitching dominance and more injuries. Until pitchers decide to take a little off their pitches in an effort to extend their careers and protect their arms, the problem won't go away. And with the competition to get and hold on to an MLB spot and the millions of dollars involved, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
The best solution is limiting the number of fastballs over 88mph a team can throw in a game while also limiting the number that may be thrown by a single pitcher.
Kinda like F1, this would force hard decisions about when to use pitchers and when to swap them out. The total number can also be adjusted up or down to have an effect on game length.
This would probably be the stupidest thing ever
We should also limit the amount of balls in play by each team that way we reduce ankle injuries when running to first
The problem is also the batter’s approach….everyone getting applauded for hitting 30-40 homers but striking out 200+ times a year. Of course they’re going to be striking out more when they’re aiming for the fences every at bat
im fairly certain a better pitching rule is to forcibly decrease the pitching speed. that would lower the injury rate, but also improve the accuracy and precision of speed to be as close as possible to the limit of the rule.
I remember in high school my buddies younger brother had a 87 mph fastball. He pitched left handed. He was right handed. He was saving his right arm for college lol. Ended up getting burnt out on baseball and gave it up to join the military and get married. Always wondered what could have been b it in any case I think he has a happier life now.
Question: why are pitch speeds expressed as miles per hour? Neither the mile nor the hour are sensible units for such a short and brief event. It would make more sense to use feet per second. A 90 mph fastball travels at 132 feet per second. Since the mound to home plate is 60 feet, 6 inches, you can see right away that the pitch takes a little less than half a second to reach home plate.
Loving the deep dive into this topic. Algorithms doing its thing properly for once. Take my thumbs up and a sub. Like others have said, this should have way more views than it currently does. Bravo nonetheless! 👏🏻💪🏻
Can't say but I've watched many a game where the pitcher tried putting the batter and the crowd to sleep. Gibson, Ryan, seaver all worked quick. It's more the emphasis on hard throwing is more to blame.
As someone who has at very high levels and have obsessed over pitching, I really enjoyed this video.
However, there are some parts i believed you missed/were incorrect.
1) Maddux did not rely on spin rate, it was what we now call “seam-shifted wake”, where the pitch moves more than previously anticipated. There also was not a dichotomy of velo vs movement/accuracy back in those days. When Maddux was being scouted, his scouting notes say “has a good 90mph fastball (fast for the time)”. Velocity was still coveted back then.
2). Not only do pitchers use advanced scouting reports, they are also throwing dramatically less fastballs and SIGNIFICANTLY more sliders, which objectively have better outcomes.
3). 3 true outcomes also has a better predictive value for evaluating pitchers because they are the only outcomes that a pitcher can control.
4) I disagree with your last point that we have “tapped out” our potential. I believe that to the contrary, training methods have become significantly more effective for developing velocity, which will continue to push the average up, and weed out the lower velocity throwers. With algorithms and AI, it’s not unreasonable to predict a future where specific metrics are taken for a individual, and specific protocols will be produced for their VERY specific body and needs. This system could seemingly get even more granular for scouting, where specific metrics could “predict” how much velocity an individual can gain. Scouts have been doing those for years, algorithms will be more accurate.
5) I would also like to mention the fact that breaking pitches are getting objectively better. Pitch tracking tools and algorithms have aided in making breaking balls move more at a higher velocity.
Anyways, other than these trivial points, great video and keep up the good work!!
I agree with a lot of what you said but I really do think we are going to hit the limit. The amount of force that the UCL can take is about the same force produced by fastballs at I think around 105mph
I guess you could say the league average might trend up which is fair but I dont think anyone will ever throw a fastball faster than 107mph
@@cubsfanman-nx6pg right, that wasn’t my point that I was trying to make; it’s likely that the human body has reached the limit of top velocity. My point was that the AVERAGE velocity will continue to increase across every level of baseball, which will raise the risk of injury at EVERY level of baseball.
this also spills into the realm of pro disc golf. pros like Eagle McMahon and Paul McBeth have already had surgery before the age of 30. becoming too common in recent years
Good video, right on target. Look at the Braves big three, Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz. Which one of the three had the majority of arm problems? Smoltz. He was the flamethrower of the three who's slider was faster than Maddux and Glavine's fastball. The Braves newest ace is Strider. But he's blown out his arm again. Matzak blew away everyone he faced the year the Braves won the WS, then was out with a blown arm, back this year but not nearly the same.
Where are the Madduxes and Glavines? Scouts probably wouldn't give a guy like Maddux a 2nd look today.
as a pitcher myself and looking into this. my theory are a couple things. one is this guy throws hard...he must have good mechanics but that's not always true. key thing here is mechanics. its like lifting weights one can lift heavy but are you doing in correctly to not have future injuries. that's why in any practice what do you learn first technique and mechanics!!! now its o lets go look at how much spin is on the ball and what rotation you must correct i agree on spin and more rates of movement but its not just adding spin you snap our fingers and put spin on the ball but are you mechanically doing it right. here and the things happing in MLB say no. everyone looks at the rotation of the arm and the spin but not from the start to how he got there to the finish. its energy transfer and the goal is to put as less stress on the parts made for movement and not overloaded pressure because of poor mechanics. and proper arm care after is just as important if not more. this of course will not completely prevent but its all about preserving those bullets because our arms only have so many!!!
The pitch clock has made the game actually watchable, and we've seen it before that you can strike out batters with slower pitches.
The problem that baseball has is the false belief that pitchers have to throw the ball around 100 miles an hour or they won't perform.
It also needs to be noted that the technology strike zone is pulling the zone in and this benefits the batter. Imagine the strike out to hit ratio if they were not monitoring the zone ?
gotta love that clemens 20 strike out game. had it on tape as a kid, must have watched it 50 times
The most dominating pitcher in my little league was a curveball thrower. Dominated. But, moving up to Babe Ruth league, mound was further back, and he couldn't compete. HIs arm was curved from throwing too many curve balls, and they told kids just throw fastballs. We all wear out, and if you overuse, you get injured. Year-round baseball is bad, and most get sick of the game. Ban travel teams, let more kids from other side of the street play, since baseball looks like the Masters Tournament.
I'd rather let the data speak for itself rather than take the word of pitchers complaining that pitch clocks cause more injuries. I would assume the opposite, if you become tired (muscles / cardiovascular system), you throw with less speed thereby reducing the strain on the tendons. It's not the tendons that get more rest in the 10 extra seconds, it's the rest of the body. It's also the volume of pitches that cause injuries over time, and pitch clocks aren't changing that.
Watching Madux at the end was a clinic on what a pitcher is.