How do you always manage to make these small mistakes? 😂😂😂 you also wrote 144 0p at 8:18 on the right. I mean that's no issue. I love your videos. I don't even know how I got to your channel, but you are hella underrated. I first thought you were a very big youtuber, but damn, no and you even have some better quality than some bigger channels. Your work is awesome, man! Keep going.
It is important to note, that some games like Halo and Hogwarts Legacy when under VRAM pressure will swap out some textures from VRAM and produce worse image than intended. Enabling HBCC might lead this games to not swapping textures and keeping image quality but at cost of performance. So when testing such features it is important to check that image quality is really equal.
As I understand HBCC it's about increasing the available VRAM which one would expect to improve texture quality. I might have expected it to improve 1% lows but I would not expect maximum frame rate to improve. It's a shame it's no good in Warzone because that's one game that really needs more VRAM.
Suspect HBCC mainly helps in cases where the game does a bad job at vram management and allocates vram that it doesn't use much which potentially lets the caching management take up some of the slack better than a normal setup.
honestly.... vega was designed as an all in one heavy compute card essentially its a workstation or gaming card --- HBCC most likely helps with large data sets where they need the memory, some examples would be comparing data that involves weather patterns i believe
@@wnxdafriz Probably, the card isn't really fast enough to make use of more than 8 GB of VRAM in most games anyhow (not to mention the 16gb radeon VII), and few games at the time were even able to hit 8gb vram usage so it makes more sense for productivity use. Even workstation cards don't come with HBM these days though so I guess it wasn't worth it enough in the end over just putting a bunch of GDDR on them instead and reserving HBM for datacenter stuff.
I snagged what must have been one of the final V64's sold from UK retailers back in November 2020 for just £219. Had been looking to get a 5600XT that day but saw the Sapphire V64 in stock for considerably less, and just jumped on it. Amazing card still going strong in my daughters PC! Unfortunately, all she plays is Roblox and Stardew Valley.
The 5600XT is also a banger of a card. It was practically just a 5700 with 6GB of VRAM and slightly lower clocks, being sold for the price of a 1660 Super. Incredible value at the time, and it's aged so well it makes me glad that I got it instead of the 2060 when I built my PC.
@@ThinkAboutVic I did get one in the end! A Merc 519 5600XT, with the BIOS update etc. Bought it the following year in fact once Covid prices started to return to normal. Performance was pretty similar to the V64 in most cases. Very nice card. Only recently retired for a 6750XT.
I believe HBCC is some actual silicon, not just something to simply be "enabled" on new cards. It's a feature from the fact Vega was never meant to be a gaming card. Super cool. I JUST upgraded my Vega 56 a month ago. The big thing, it let me render Blender scenes normally way outside 8gb of vram
What was cool is that if I remember correctly, there is a Pro version of Fury X that has a build in M.2 SSD slot that it uses as aditional VRAM. Meaning that the card technically had like 1TB of aditional, low speed VRAM
I doubt it would help much if at all, data is still going trough a PCIe 3.0 x16 interface (16GB/s) which is slow compared to the bandwidth of even dual channel DDR4-1600 at 25.6GB/s, DDR4-1600 is the bottom spec for DDR4, I have never seen it outside of the JEDEC spec, nowdays the most common you will find is DDR4-2666 JEDEC and 3200-3600 XMP
At this point in gaming, the Vega 64 GPU itself is going to be the most limiting issue no matter how much RAM it is fed. But it is impressive to see how well it has done after 6 years and so much change in the gaming landscape.
I have a Radeon VII (otherwise known as Vega 2nd Generation) and it still kicks ass. Love it a lot and don't have any regrets. Even without overclocking or anything, having the 16GB HBM2 memory has ensured that memory bottlenecks aren't really an issue for me (at 1080p). Having this option in HBCC to further expand it into the future makes me really happy. I haven't felt a need for it yet.
@@ZackSNetwork lol? I've already seen the utility in having high memory capacity in both games and applications 🙄 There's nothing stopping one from using the memory up to its capacity and I'm struggling to understand why you believe that. Edit: do you mean it can't take advantage of the speed? The bandwidth itself? I'm still struggling to figure this comment out 😭
I think HBCC did not catch on because it's too expensive. But I think, in the future, this technology or some similar flavour of it, will be come de facto and most manufacturers will include it in their hardware.
This tech have it's own issue. Even in AMD's case HBCC is disabled by default because there are certain conditioned need to be met before you can properly use it. HBCC was created because to put more memory can be very expensive with HBM. if memory are cheap you can just put the amount you want and did not need to go with tricky workaround like HBCC
Well, not everyone has multiple high-frequency and low-latency memory kits galore. That HBCC feature is interesting. AI seems to be where HBM is going to be used. Vega is aging well though and better than the Nvidia equivalents at 1440p.
Me and my brother have Identical PCs same CPU 3700x but he's got a rtx 2060 6g I have a vega 64 8g we both play around with stable diffusion and he can beat me any day ATM
This is actually interesting for other applications, rather than gaming. If you are trying to run a LLM locally (a model like chat-gpt), then you would run out of VRAM pretty quickly on bigger models. If you could expand the vram using the regular ram, it would allow you to run bigger models on a cheaper card... Issue is, the support for ROCm (cuda equivalent for AMD) is pretty bad right now
Just tried loading all 41 layers of a llama2 model, instead of the 30 that fit in 8gb with HBCC. Sadly at least with my miniscule 16gigs of ram it slowed down the performance. I'm upgrading the system soon and will get 32 gigs, maybe I'll give it another go
I feel like this is another great case of Fine wine. Once DDR5 advances into higher bandwidths, these cards with HBCC could suddenly be much more playable and last longer than anyone ever expected
@@Swattii I know right?? The last GPU I purchased was my R9 Fury Nitro in 2016, and that cost me $225! Waitchads truly do win, although my little brother's $130 RX 5700xt does make me a little jealous
Oh, I'm definitely curious to see how this works with 32 or 64 GB of DDR5 RAM at 7200 MT/s with low latency (and 2 sticks only, DDR5 on 4 sticks is horrible at the moment). Also, I think that HBCC can help properly only if the game also knows to load things sufficiently in advance (so you don't need it instantly, you're not so succeptible to latency). Or simply, like someone else noted, maybe having a lazy approach of leaving things in memory if there's space, and having this more means that you might benefit from that when those assets are reused. In any case, it does look like the game's programming (or game + driver) does matter. I guess the ultimate test will be the (very?) few games that will have high enough textures that even 1080p might need more than 8 GB of VRAM. Or that have 1440p running well enough to be used by Vega 64, while also having very high textures. It's kind of a bit un unfortunate that the market itself, the developers, are actually taking care to only push over 8 GB of VRAM when it's actually needed, since soooo many people and cards have 8 GB, not caring for that would destroy the performance on too high of a marketshare, so to speak.
Some important note: there is a big performance bug in Cyberpunk 2077 with Vega cards that will result it idling for certain milliseconds that ISN'T affected in Linux VKD3D, some graphics feature is hard failing and causing terrible FPS. You can see this when you run the game at 240p and the framerate stays the same as 1080p+
This. I was shocked at how good the performance was on Proton, 1080ti levels if not better when OCed. While on Windows I initially swapped my 570 for a Vega and saw virtually no difference on all versions after 1.52. I actually gathered quite a bit of info on it and sent it to CDPR, they replied that they’re investigating this. Hope they can fix it, Radeon VII running worse than a 6600 is a joke.
@@thanatoast4 Yeah, they replied to me and it was fixed in the next patch. Impressive that they actually handled it instead of telling to buy newer hardware.
Im curious how this will handle v-ram intensive production applications, stuff like Stable Diffusion for example. You can run SD on AMD now through DirectML, and I have thought of trying that on my Vega 56. Might be a good motivator.
Never tried running Stable Diffusion locally tbh. What kind of workloads would cause it to use a large amount of VRAM? Just, like, regular images? Or would it have to be particularly high resolution ones?
@@IcebergTech Stable Diffusion in general is a very V-ram intensive application, but generating larger images and generating more images per batch (multiple at a time) require more vram. I have found that 8GB cards like the 1070 and the 1080 can generate images from anywhere between 512 x 512 and 1024 x 1024 (though usually closer to the lower end) but V-ram usage goes up exponentially as resolution increases. I don't know if Stable Diffusion on AMD is any more or less V-ram efficient through the DirectML backend. I feel like Vega can handle it, but I did try running SD on an RX 580 8GB which resulted in massive temperature spikes on the core and forced a system shutdown. It could be a 580 specific issue, or it could be a "GCN runs hot and hungry" thing. I unfortunately don't have any Navi stuff to test that. If you're interested in getting SD running locally there are two ways to do it: 1: Using the DirectML backend. This is the only way you can run it on Windows right now. 2: Using the ROCm backend. I haven't tried this, but it requires that you use Linux or WSL. I have heard that Arch based distros (like Arch, Manjaro, and Garuda) are the easiest to set this up on.
I think it would be really interesting to see how it runs on DDR5 I know nobody would use it with a PC like that. But it just sounds like something that could be interesting to see
14:18 I hate they can modify the game after purchase. For me the problem wasn't performance, but once I had played the game through after launch, I had obtained items that I can no longer use because the level requirement has been modified since. It's so annoying.
20:55 how is going to be ddr4 (low latency) bandwidth be aproblem by itself when you have the much slower pcie 3.0 or 4.0 to bottleneck latency and BW?
I'm still using my Vega 64 OC from gigabyte. I have problems in the past and fixed last year. Graphics card reset my entire rig and investigating further, i found that my actual conection to the Power suplly was bad, my fault. If anyone have the same problem, your Vega64 shutdown your computer, try to change 1 cable 8 pins for 2 cables independent 8 pins. Obviously in a modular power suplly. thanks for the video!!!!!!!
Probably just a case of lacking software support. I could see the technology doing well if implemented well. Could also depend on if there is a cpu vs gpu bottleneck.
Ratchet and clank is strange, I went from 35fps to 45fps when upgrading from 16gb to 32gb ram. My settings were 1440p native with full rt on rx 6700xt and 5600x. That is a massive almost 30% increase by just upgrading ram. Gpu power draw also went up, indicating that 12gb weren't enough for those settings. That is probably why the gains were much smaller with RT disabled. More like 10-15% at max settings 4K with fsr performance. I observed the same thing in spider man, 4K fsr balanced with RT, I went from 45 to 70fps, by just upgrading RAM, crazy.
@@AliShaikh_744 Ah shit good point. Fuck why do they put this feature on the cards that dont need it? Like imagine this on the Nvidia cards of last gen that would have atleasted helped.
@@0SynergyRadeon VII is more a heavy compute card. You might get good results out of HBCC running non gaming workloads on the card. For simple gaming the GPU is kind of bad value for money.
Maybe but it would still be limited by the theoretical max 16GB/s speed of PCIE 3.0 while one channel of DDR4 3200 has a bandwidth of 25.6 GB/s so the PCIE bus may already already be a bottleneck in the current dual channel DDR4 3600 system and higher bandwidth ram might not help a lot more but idk. (Idk what the actual bandwidth is in practice though)
I wonder how the old x99 platform will handle this. I ask because tonight i plan to build my vega 56/xeon e5 2680 v4 system and enable this feature and maybe..just maybe..quad channel ram will give this a boost. Fingers crossed
I doubt it, even dual channel DDR4-1600 (yes that speed exists in the JEDEC spec) has significantly more throughput than PCIe 3 x16, but it might depending on the software and HW implementation: does the GPU use DMA or does the data need to be elaborated on the CPU? because this 2 scenarios i would expect to behave differently at varying throughput and latency
@@rubenfasola5402 there was nothing scientific about my experiment sadly, and I probably should have turned it off and on to compare, but for some games I can definitely tell the 0.1% lows must have been better. It produced a sickly smooth fps in combination with a 1080p monitor with black frame insertion.
I have a rtx 3070 on a MSI B550-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard that uses this. All I had to do was turn it on in the pcie bios settings. Then I no longer had vram issues in Detroit become human on high resolutions.
I had one good use of HBCC on my vega64. I could use it to force a render to go through that would normally crash due to running out of vram. A render going through x3 slower is infinitely better than never finishing at all. Haven't had to do it in recent years so no clue if it still works with Adobe products, but if it does it at ~$120 its a good value for hobby fun.
From my testing I've observed Vega 56/64 lose fps (over 10-20% loss in some cases) when SAM is disabled. Maybe try retesting few titles with resizable bar/SAM enabled in future with tuned HBM timings. Great video none the less.
My Vega 64 SAM video is coming in about a week, maybe longer depending on other factors. Out of interest, which games are you seeing that kind of benefit in? So far, only Forza and Fortnite have given more than 10%, with everything else being almost indifferent.
@@IcebergTech System used for testing: Ryzen 5900x 4.4ghz all core 1.23v, X570s aorus master, (Viper steel 8gbx4) 32gb B-die 3600 cl14-14-14-28 TRFC 250 1.45v, Vega 56 Pulse (stock ROM). Gains when SAM is enabled on these games: AC Valhalla 10-11%, Cyberpunk 9-10%, Forza 5 23-24%, Horizon zero dawn 9%,Warzone 2 12-13%,RDR2 10%. Slightly tuned HBM timings (Using AMD Memory tweak tool XL). If your card has samsung hbm then it'll tune much better than hynix hbm. Looking forward to your future upload :)
worth mentioning is also the fine-vine technology that applied here quite niecely. If you would retry the tests, the vega56 is now pretty close to 1080 in most of the titles.
I recall that in Far Cry 5, HBCC really helped with smoothness with the HD texture pack. It was a stuttery mess without it, but totally smooth when i turned it on. And the game really used all the allocated VRAM i gave it, went all the way to 16GB used after like 15 minutes of playing.
If you want a good showcase for HBCC in a game check out Greedfall in the later cities. It allowed me to keep textures on Ultra and have a smooth gameplay, it was maybe the first WOW moment for HBCC back when I still had a V64. Without it the game would run out of VRAM as you kept playing and would murder the frametimes.
It would be interesting to see HBCC with fast DDR5 but I understand that you don’t have the ability now. In theory it should help. Maybe with quad channel or more you’ll get a proper improvement as well.
I had hoped there would be some exploration of AI improvement. Seeing performance difference for 13b or SDXL but perhaps one of the AI focused folks will see this and experiment.
just got an upgrade in the mail and uninstalled my vega56 and searched for vega content and saw your video uploaded just a couple hours earlier; what a coincidence. I'm impressed by the relevancy of titles benchmarked. Usually I'm left scratching my head why people would choose a set of two dozen random single player titles of the last 5 years that together demonstrably have a couple thousand unique players per month. Your mix of games is perfectly relevant or interesting to me. Like how fortnite is usually a good indication of unreal engine performance.
A little late to the party but One other card with 16gb of hbm2 and hbbc was the forgotten vega frontier edition, also has both pro edition and adrenaline driver support. Currently running one with the x399 platform and has been a very solid card.
This kind of feature would absolutely dominate at heavy AI workloads, especially for image generation. Unfortunately, I can't imagine any manufacturer hurting their high-end professional card sales like that.
The HBCC concept is super interesting to me. Sure it may be slow and power hungry compared to modern cards, BUT for production workloads having access up to 128GB+ of ram is *extremely* interesting. Also if you still have the card, I'd love to see it ran with a DDR5 system just out of morbid curiosity.
Yeah I have a Vega 64, pretty good card and it really benefited from undervolting, I tried the HBCC in Forza, while it worked, I didn't get the notice of running out of video memory, the game would end up loosing so much performance over time it would end up in the teens or even single digits if left idle in freeroam. Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 does play well on low to med sitting on the card, but that game if you got the Vram it will use that vram, enabling HBCC will also seem to make things slow over time, I didn't do much testing with it myself, I just kept it off as I didn't feel like restarting my game every 30min to an hour.
I have this card and the only game i found use massively the hbbc memory extension is 7 days to die. It is happy to eat all your vram extended over the 8 Gb. My max was 14.3gb. and it helped a lot in mean of FSP.
most people talking about hbcc dont test Space Engineers, it eats up gobs of ram i think i saw it at 26gb ussage at one point. im using a frontier edition though at 16 gbs vram. awsome video!!!!!
I have a bit of Frankenstein of a system. It's an old Alienware Aurora R5 I've owned since new. I ordered it during the first big GPU shortage during a cyber Monday special. I spec'd it with a 6700k 2 Rx480's 8GB and a few other good options like the cd-drive. I've pretty much replaced everything but the 6700k and it's factory AIO liquid cooler. -i7 6700k @ 4.7GHz @1.4V -Vega 64 Limited Edition Liquid cooled 8GB HBM2 (which I snagged off marketplace for a deal.) with the memory over clocked to bump up the bandwidth from 483.3 GB/s to 555.5 GB/s. (helps HBCC I think) cleaned it up and replaced it's thermal paste and shoehorned it into the chassis after some modifications to the case and removing the lower drive bays and trimming some plastic. -swapped out some of the old fans for some Artic Slim P12's , 2 on the CPU AIO as a push pull and one on the GPU AIO as a push, all acting as exhaust creating a nice passive intake using the factory side vents. -4x 16gb sticks of HyperX fury GDDR4 RAM running at 2400MHz (MOBO limited, 34/3600 MHz capable iirc.) for 64GB total physical memory. -For storage I got rid of my old 256gb M.2 drive and 1.8TB HDD combination and replaced it with an Intel DC P4608 series PCi-E SSD. It's an older enterprise grade data center SSD that has faster read/writes on average than any M.2 I could have gotten to work ( non NVME.) and it has insane random read/writes paired with high endurance. It's a 6.4 TB drive but it's essentially 2 3.2TB discs on one drive. So with that in mind I decided divvy an even page file cache from each of them to tune of 32GB each. So with my 64GB of GDDR4 plus the allocated combined 32gb+32gb I now have a useable 128GB system memory. Once I got that sorted I moved onto the HBCC. I then allocated 32 GB of system memory to be used as VRAM cache. When I open task manager it shows dedicated GPU memory is 32GB and shared GPU memory is 32 GB but total GPU memory is 64GB. I'm not sure where it pulls the memory from, either it uses the RAM physical memory then the RAM is supplemented by the file cache or vice versa. Truly an alien piece of hardware now.
I'm curious how HBCC changes performance in something like Blender. Some scenes can be complex enough that VRAM is insufficient, and the scene has to be rendered on CPU+System memory. I wonder if HBCC could allow a scene with theoretically infinite complexity to be rendered on GPU, as long as it had access to enough system memory. Stutters wouldn't be an issue either, since Blender Cycles renders in the timeframe of seconds per frame rather than Frames per Second
Neat to see it's aged decently, but I think my main takeaway is Halo Infinite providing a good fps on an older less popular GPU. I swear that game seems to just decide what should perform well and what shouldn't on a dice roll
I recently got a Vega 56. My main game is COD Warzone and I was getting huge lag spikes. The used system I put it in was also new to me so I wasn't sure the issue. I was able to fix it by dropping the in-game VRAM usage to something low like 50% or 60%. Now it plays smooth. I thought maybe this video would show that the HBCC would help, but I have my fix anyways. Hope this helps someone out there.
Check Vega 64 with higher Resolutions at least like on 4K and redo the test on more games. The results will suprise you how often they sometimes allign even with the newest cards.
great video effort , I've always went with the best latency Ram for price and mostly ATi AMD cards for various reasons. (i have 2 3060's and a 2080ti in my main computer and my other has 2 6800XT's) and my 3rd has a Vega 64) So I feel where your coming from. I like 3D rendering obviously and the gaming isn't so different from what ever box I use. Setup any nerd with what I have and they will come off the gaming box Meth Habits programed in their orbs over their shoulders pretty fast. I won't be brainwashed any time soon again. You get a Thumbs up for this for sure, I hope you get an optimized system to explore with for sure, deeper!
The big think with HBCC was large scale video editing where the videos are larger than 8GB. Everything loads in the buffer. Also, seriously a sell point for miners because the DAG files got larger and if they couldn't fit in the 8GB memory, they couldn't mine. This was a big issue for 4GB cards that went completely obsolete for miners. I would also imaging that DDR5 and 6 would show better improvements. DDR6 will have bandwidth which will rival GDDR.
Great video thank you. When I had a Vega 56 flashed to Vega 64 bios I used to undervolt and be able to push the core and vram to really sweet clocks. My card allowed settings of 1800Mhz core and 1150Mhz vram max. I ran it at 1785 core and 1100 vram. In the last of us part 1 core would run 1778Mhz vram 1100Mhz and fps it would get 68-82 FPS. I was extremely happy with that result. Settings 1080p mostly max except shadows. Power usage though 258-270 watts which is pretty high. If I locked at 60 fps vsync power usage dropped quote a bit down to 126-155 watts weird lol. In Starfield I just wanted to say on AMD ryzen 5000 cpus turning off AMD SMT gains you quite a bit of fps at least it does on my 5900x. As for fps for Vega in Starfield I'm not sure as I now have a 7900xt card. My Vega is in its box waiting to be used by someone again hopefully soon.
do you have screenshot of voltage settings? If I under-volt i have to lover the max clocks- So I menaged to get 1550mhz core with 1v and 1100 hbm on my v56@64 rom
I'm fascinated at this possibly improving VR performance. Hear me out, we have some impressive mods for PC games now, enabling all varieties of VR conversions. But they're regularly hamstrung by traditional VRAM capacities. It's taken up until now to have 12GB+ on high-end and mid-tier cards, and that's what you need to play VR mods of Resident Evil, Crysis, and all the eventual Unreal Engine games using Praydog's injector. I have to wonder if HBCC paired with DDR5 and their potential 5000MHz and up could help bridge the gap.
i love my vega. Been running a vega 64 for years undervolted and overclocked. its cooler, quieter, and performs better then stock. it gets by these days but im here as i look to replace my warhorse. Star citizen needs more than 8gb of vram these days
Just got done playing Halo infinite with Frame Gen and FSR on! Frame times 2.9ms with 180-195FPS 1080p High/ultra. Rx6600 non xt undervolt to 1125. Went from 75FPS to nearly 200 FPS with noticeable gains seen on my MSI 27” curved monitor 170hz. Just nasty frame rates with a great looking game too!
I remember buying the Vega 64 card 10 months after getting the GTX1070. Being promised that this thing was going to be the second coming after Nvidia's Pascal. What we instead received, was a hot, loud space heater that was a Fury X on steroids that managed to outperform my 1070, while blasting out disproportionately more heat and electricity, that was a Miner's Paradise to boot. But I was sold, I rooted for underdog AMD. Hoping the features would come, they never did. So now the next cards I will buy will be on merit, not branding. Those cards are still my daily drivers 7 years later. I'm glad you made this video about the HBCC feature and always wondered how that feature would hold up, and it disappoints no doubt. But general performance holds up pretty well with the latest games after driver improvements for a 6 year old card. I think in compute heavy games like CP77 is where this "professional workstation but surplus to requirements" card will truly shine against its chief competition, the GTX1080.
14:10 you know that presets are great for testing, but for playing game, you should not use them, and change options individually, so what unlock what is bottleneck but not lower settings (as one using more vram) which are nor problem.
My 2020 PC had a 3600XT, 16 gigs of ram and a Vega 64 - incremental hardware upgrades (64 gigs of ram first) led me to use the HBCC functionality as the Vega was the last part to be upgraded. The 2 games I played most were HEAVILY modded Cities skylines (which would fill up 48 gigs of ram, 16 gigs of HBCC and 8 gigs of VRAM and still only just run at 30 FPS) and DCS which could fill up the VRAM with textures easily. I now have a 5800X3D, 64 gigs of ram and a 7900XTX - and the only downfall of the system is PCIE 3 - the motherboard is still the same one from 2017, socket AM4 forever :) - its lasted me longer than even my Socket 7 system from back in the day.
What about 'reverse operation'? Backwards HBCC, HBM as System Memory over PCIe? I can't find any 'off-the-shelf' options but, the more I dig, the more I see the possibility. System RAM and VRAM (seem to) already get enumerated in a shared space. Whatever allows HBCC to get direct access to sysRAM, seems conceptually 'recyclable' for giving more (high-latency, high-bandwidth) working RAM to old-arse PCIe machines. Why? Why not? Which BTW, Vega(s) seem to work in PCIe Gen1 systems, just fine. (I am #73 for Radeon WX 9100 on 3Dmark FireStrike Ultra, with dual S940 880s on NF4pro)
and the radeon pro SSG i have the second generation that was veeeery short lived . it has 24gb ram and also has an raid 0 ssd 2tb setup built in :) its a freaking fast card
Okay, I just picked one up on eBay without a cooler, but I have a couple broken reference RX 580s so I think I can make something happen as far as getting it to run stable. I paid $54.00 for the PCB with 8GB of HBM, I think it was a decent deal. Supposedly, the V64 is better than the RX 5500xt 8GB GDDR6, which is what we use on almost all our budget builds. I know, it's old AF but these are systems for people paying like $325 tops.
HBCC is so good! I am still on my Sapphire Vega 64 Nitro+ I got second place in Mem OC with OG cooler! But i must say it would be cool to get a new GPU With Resident Evil Village eating away up to 10 gigs ram i was happy to have HBM HBCC
Seems to me there was a reason HBCC was abandoned. I wonder how my CL16 3800Mhz RAM paired with my 3950X of 1:1 Infinity Fabric enabled would do. If faster RAM is what the HBCC requires then maybe it'd actually see some kind of performance increase.
This would be interesting with quad channel ddr4 as well. I got quad channel ddr4 @ 3600 in my x299 pc. Sometimes I really dont know if quad channel matters at all for gaming numbers, but maybe the extra bandwidth could help here?
I like this vid so much. I never heard of this hb... Thing. Your commentary is good. When you explaind that it is, I new faster ram would be a good benefit. Waiting for the ddr5 vid of this one. Just for curiousity.
I think you might have more reliable high quality controllers with a 5800X and they go for about $190 on ebay. I bought a cheap lexar 3600 kit for $50. I'm currently running it at 4000MHz with the full 2000MHz IF to take advantage. I'd have to agree, a 6000MHz kit would make a big difference.
AMD has always went out and tried new things to see if it will catch on. When their A series APU's came out, you were able to combine the GPU part of the APU with a low tier dedicated GPU (RX 240 ect) to gain even more performance. Which was something really neat, since they were looking out for the poor folks who could not afford high end gpu's at the time.
> to gain even more performance Well, crossfire worked awfully even with two discrete GPUs. I have 3870k, 6800k and 7850k APUs on hand and tried pairing them with maximum allowed dGPU for hybrid crossfire. Pretty stupid idea actually. And DX12/Vulkan killed the whole idea of gpu pairing.
ERRATA:
05:56 Oops, the right hand text block should read 8GB, not 2GB.
😮
Ltt vibes rn
Xd
@@ctsjson498laughing out loud over here BTW. 😊
How do you always manage to make these small mistakes? 😂😂😂 you also wrote 144 0p at 8:18 on the right. I mean that's no issue. I love your videos. I don't even know how I got to your channel, but you are hella underrated. I first thought you were a very big youtuber, but damn, no and you even have some better quality than some bigger channels. Your work is awesome, man! Keep going.
It is important to note, that some games like Halo and Hogwarts Legacy when under VRAM pressure will swap out some textures from VRAM and produce worse image than intended. Enabling HBCC might lead this games to not swapping textures and keeping image quality but at cost of performance.
So when testing such features it is important to check that image quality is really equal.
This was the main test I was looking for.
Good 'ole "texture streaming issues"
that idSoftware's RAGE had, badly.
As I understand HBCC it's about increasing the available VRAM which one would expect to improve texture quality. I might have expected it to improve 1% lows but I would not expect maximum frame rate to improve.
It's a shame it's no good in Warzone because that's one game that really needs more VRAM.
@@labrat810I remember the foliage looking terrible on the PS3
Suspect HBCC mainly helps in cases where the game does a bad job at vram management and allocates vram that it doesn't use much which potentially lets the caching management take up some of the slack better than a normal setup.
I agree yeah
honestly.... vega was designed as an all in one heavy compute card
essentially its a workstation or gaming card --- HBCC most likely helps
with large data sets where they need the memory, some examples
would be comparing data that involves weather patterns i believe
@@wnxdafriz Probably, the card isn't really fast enough to make use of more than 8 GB of VRAM in most games anyhow (not to mention the 16gb radeon VII), and few games at the time were even able to hit 8gb vram usage so it makes more sense for productivity use. Even workstation cards don't come with HBM these days though so I guess it wasn't worth it enough in the end over just putting a bunch of GDDR on them instead and reserving HBM for datacenter stuff.
isn't Resizable BAR one of the aspects of HBCC? The anti-latency seems to be the case.
Starfield
i do wonder if HBCC + fast DDR5 platform would help modern GDDR6 cards with heavy/large/memory intensive stable diffusion workloads...
EDIT: This answer was stupid :)
Thats what i see this being used for. SDXL on my 8gb card needs to swap models with ram 3 times to finish a single image
The VEGA would allow us to test this theory even if it's not the card we'd really want with this technology.
I appreciate that you keep coming up with incredibly unique videos.
Makes the tech dystopia we are suffering through much more bearable!
I would love to see a Blender benchamark, where it needs 8+GB of VRAM
Ah yes amd gou in blender very nice but tbh I'd say it'd do goodish
It does not work
@@yves1926 what does not work in blender amd? It does just way slower
@@Bacongoober HBCC does not work with blender
@@yves1926 that's...
Disappointing
I snagged what must have been one of the final V64's sold from UK retailers back in November 2020 for just £219. Had been looking to get a 5600XT that day but saw the Sapphire V64 in stock for considerably less, and just jumped on it. Amazing card still going strong in my daughters PC!
Unfortunately, all she plays is Roblox and Stardew Valley.
I’d that’s the case it’s going to last for the next century
The 5600XT is also a banger of a card. It was practically just a 5700 with 6GB of VRAM and slightly lower clocks, being sold for the price of a 1660 Super. Incredible value at the time, and it's aged so well it makes me glad that I got it instead of the 2060 when I built my PC.
@@ThinkAboutVic its aged the same as the 2060 but the price did make it a better deal if you werent really bothered by DLSS
Dude Thats cute
@@ThinkAboutVic I did get one in the end! A Merc 519 5600XT, with the BIOS update etc. Bought it the following year in fact once Covid prices started to return to normal. Performance was pretty similar to the V64 in most cases. Very nice card. Only recently retired for a 6750XT.
I believe HBCC is some actual silicon, not just something to simply be "enabled" on new cards. It's a feature from the fact Vega was never meant to be a gaming card. Super cool. I JUST upgraded my Vega 56 a month ago. The big thing, it let me render Blender scenes normally way outside 8gb of vram
It is a software feature. Its only available for HBM GPUs. This was explained at the beginning.
What was cool is that if I remember correctly, there is a Pro version of Fury X that has a build in M.2 SSD slot that it uses as aditional VRAM. Meaning that the card technically had like 1TB of aditional, low speed VRAM
Would definitely wanna see this with DDR5. Seems interesting.
I doubt it would help much if at all, data is still going trough a PCIe 3.0 x16 interface (16GB/s) which is slow compared to the bandwidth of even dual channel DDR4-1600 at 25.6GB/s, DDR4-1600 is the bottom spec for DDR4, I have never seen it outside of the JEDEC spec, nowdays the most common you will find is DDR4-2666 JEDEC and 3200-3600 XMP
If HBCC really depends more on latency than bandwidth, as said in the video, the results would be worse, as DDR5 has a higher latency than DDR4
@@portalwalker_ DDR5 have more clock cycles in the latency but it clocks at twice the speed. So no, it's not higher latency.
i gave it 20gb of DDR5 5600 mhz Hynix chip memory and i had roughly the same improvements or none at all
I still use a vega 64, 6+ years and it still churns out decent frames and makes audio manipulation really fun.
Audio manipulation? What is this feature?
At this point in gaming, the Vega 64 GPU itself is going to be the most limiting issue no matter how much RAM it is fed. But it is impressive to see how well it has done after 6 years and so much change in the gaming landscape.
I have a Radeon VII (otherwise known as Vega 2nd Generation) and it still kicks ass.
Love it a lot and don't have any regrets. Even without overclocking or anything, having the 16GB HBM2 memory has ensured that memory bottlenecks aren't really an issue for me (at 1080p). Having this option in HBCC to further expand it into the future makes me really happy. I haven't felt a need for it yet.
So nice to finally find somebody who realized the Radeon VII is technically a "Vega Two" and not a roman numeral "Seven".
@@KomradeMikhail It's a clever name 😂 think it does often go over heads, though.
People are so obsessed with HBM memory it’s not funny. That GPU will not even take advantage of 16gbs of its vram because it’s not powerful enough to.
@@ZackSNetwork lol? I've already seen the utility in having high memory capacity in both games and applications 🙄
There's nothing stopping one from using the memory up to its capacity and I'm struggling to understand why you believe that.
Edit: do you mean it can't take advantage of the speed? The bandwidth itself? I'm still struggling to figure this comment out 😭
This is basically the cheaper version of the radeon VII
I love my radeon vii. An amazing gpu.
@@bryanwages3518I'm so happy to meet someone who has this card, it's a white whale out there I swear.
The Radeon VII B-roll I recorded for this video might give you a clue about an upcoming video... 😉
I need radeon VII
One of my life's objectives
I feel like the radeon VII is the most underrated amd gpu
I think HBCC did not catch on because it's too expensive. But I think, in the future, this technology or some similar flavour of it, will be come de facto and most manufacturers will include it in their hardware.
This tech have it's own issue. Even in AMD's case HBCC is disabled by default because there are certain conditioned need to be met before you can properly use it. HBCC was created because to put more memory can be very expensive with HBM. if memory are cheap you can just put the amount you want and did not need to go with tricky workaround like HBCC
Noticed the B-roll of the Radeon VII
Very cool! Looking forward to that!
Well, not everyone has multiple high-frequency and low-latency memory kits galore. That HBCC feature is interesting. AI seems to be where HBM is going to be used. Vega is aging well though and better than the Nvidia equivalents at 1440p.
1080Ti has entered the chat.
Me and my brother have Identical PCs same CPU 3700x but he's got a rtx 2060 6g I have a vega 64 8g we both play around with stable diffusion and he can beat me any day ATM
This is actually interesting for other applications, rather than gaming.
If you are trying to run a LLM locally (a model like chat-gpt), then you would run out of VRAM pretty quickly on bigger models.
If you could expand the vram using the regular ram, it would allow you to run bigger models on a cheaper card... Issue is, the support for ROCm (cuda equivalent for AMD) is pretty bad right now
Just tried loading all 41 layers of a llama2 model, instead of the 30 that fit in 8gb with HBCC. Sadly at least with my miniscule 16gigs of ram it slowed down the performance.
I'm upgrading the system soon and will get 32 gigs, maybe I'll give it another go
I feel like this is another great case of Fine wine. Once DDR5 advances into higher bandwidths, these cards with HBCC could suddenly be much more playable and last longer than anyone ever expected
Great video as always! I'd really love to see a DDR5 remake!
I started to make one, but it ended up being an addendum:
ua-cam.com/video/NX4PteeEwv4/v-deo.html
@@IcebergTech thank you! And I want to thank you for making these videos, you've taught me some tricks that have helped immensely with work
Gold content!!!!
I want more!
Definitly subbed and liked!
This channel needs to grow!
I discovered this channel a few days ago and can’t stop watching
Nice to see vega is still seriously pulling, my $75 vega 56 is working wonders.
Seriously good buy for $75 dollars. Gotta love eBay deals.
@@Swattii I know right?? The last GPU I purchased was my R9 Fury Nitro in 2016, and that cost me $225!
Waitchads truly do win, although my little brother's $130 RX 5700xt does make me a little jealous
@@ihatelols HOW
@@ihatelols damn dude, nice!
Oh, I'm definitely curious to see how this works with 32 or 64 GB of DDR5 RAM at 7200 MT/s with low latency (and 2 sticks only, DDR5 on 4 sticks is horrible at the moment).
Also, I think that HBCC can help properly only if the game also knows to load things sufficiently in advance (so you don't need it instantly, you're not so succeptible to latency). Or simply, like someone else noted, maybe having a lazy approach of leaving things in memory if there's space, and having this more means that you might benefit from that when those assets are reused. In any case, it does look like the game's programming (or game + driver) does matter.
I guess the ultimate test will be the (very?) few games that will have high enough textures that even 1080p might need more than 8 GB of VRAM. Or that have 1440p running well enough to be used by Vega 64, while also having very high textures. It's kind of a bit un unfortunate that the market itself, the developers, are actually taking care to only push over 8 GB of VRAM when it's actually needed, since soooo many people and cards have 8 GB, not caring for that would destroy the performance on too high of a marketshare, so to speak.
Some important note: there is a big performance bug in Cyberpunk 2077 with Vega cards that will result it idling for certain milliseconds that ISN'T affected in Linux VKD3D, some graphics feature is hard failing and causing terrible FPS.
You can see this when you run the game at 240p and the framerate stays the same as 1080p+
This. I was shocked at how good the performance was on Proton, 1080ti levels if not better when OCed. While on Windows I initially swapped my 570 for a Vega and saw virtually no difference on all versions after 1.52. I actually gathered quite a bit of info on it and sent it to CDPR, they replied that they’re investigating this. Hope they can fix it, Radeon VII running worse than a 6600 is a joke.
@@zextakamania2086 very late on this i realize, but CDPR did eventually go back and fix vega performance.
@@thanatoast4 Yeah, they replied to me and it was fixed in the next patch. Impressive that they actually handled it instead of telling to buy newer hardware.
it would be interesting to see how this tech does with AI workloads, since AI usually likes HBM memory... and a lot of it.
Vega Frontier Edition, Vega II and Titan V all have 16 or more GB of HBM2.
Google the dude who got Stable Diffusion running on an AMD Mi25
I'm gonna try loading a full 13B llama model to gpu with HBCC. Sadly I only have 16gigs of RAM so I can't do a 30B
Im curious how this will handle v-ram intensive production applications, stuff like Stable Diffusion for example. You can run SD on AMD now through DirectML, and I have thought of trying that on my Vega 56. Might be a good motivator.
Never tried running Stable Diffusion locally tbh. What kind of workloads would cause it to use a large amount of VRAM? Just, like, regular images? Or would it have to be particularly high resolution ones?
@@IcebergTech Stable Diffusion in general is a very V-ram intensive application, but generating larger images and generating more images per batch (multiple at a time) require more vram. I have found that 8GB cards like the 1070 and the 1080 can generate images from anywhere between 512 x 512 and 1024 x 1024 (though usually closer to the lower end) but V-ram usage goes up exponentially as resolution increases.
I don't know if Stable Diffusion on AMD is any more or less V-ram efficient through the DirectML backend. I feel like Vega can handle it, but I did try running SD on an RX 580 8GB which resulted in massive temperature spikes on the core and forced a system shutdown. It could be a 580 specific issue, or it could be a "GCN runs hot and hungry" thing. I unfortunately don't have any Navi stuff to test that.
If you're interested in getting SD running locally there are two ways to do it:
1: Using the DirectML backend. This is the only way you can run it on Windows right now.
2: Using the ROCm backend. I haven't tried this, but it requires that you use Linux or WSL. I have heard that Arch based distros (like Arch, Manjaro, and Garuda) are the easiest to set this up on.
19:11 - IDK, MAN... = Best benchmark results ever! 😁
I think it would be really interesting to see how it runs on DDR5
I know nobody would use it with a PC like that. But it just sounds like something that could be interesting to see
14:18 I hate they can modify the game after purchase. For me the problem wasn't performance, but once I had played the game through after launch, I had obtained items that I can no longer use because the level requirement has been modified since. It's so annoying.
20:55 how is going to be ddr4 (low latency) bandwidth be aproblem by itself when you have the much slower pcie 3.0 or 4.0 to bottleneck latency and BW?
I'm still using my Vega 64 OC from gigabyte. I have problems in the past and fixed last year. Graphics card reset my entire rig and investigating further, i found that my actual conection to the Power suplly was bad, my fault.
If anyone have the same problem, your Vega64 shutdown your computer, try to change 1 cable 8 pins for 2 cables independent 8 pins. Obviously in a modular power suplly.
thanks for the video!!!!!!!
Probably just a case of lacking software support. I could see the technology doing well if implemented well. Could also depend on if there is a cpu vs gpu bottleneck.
The tech have it's issues. AMD did not solve that and just release the tech as it is. That's why HBCC being turned off by default in AMD drivers.
maybe HBCC is good for slow HDD?
they dont need to dump into page file that often since it had so many vram
Ratchet and clank is strange, I went from 35fps to 45fps when upgrading from 16gb to 32gb ram. My settings were 1440p native with full rt on rx 6700xt and 5600x. That is a massive almost 30% increase by just upgrading ram. Gpu power draw also went up, indicating that 12gb weren't enough for those settings. That is probably why the gains were much smaller with RT disabled. More like 10-15% at max settings 4K with fsr performance. I observed the same thing in spider man, 4K fsr balanced with RT, I went from 45 to 70fps, by just upgrading RAM, crazy.
Would love a retest with a Radeon VII and tuned DDR5(the fastest you can get) with a 7800X3D, kind of interested to see the limits of HBCC
But a Radeon VII has 16GB VRAM so almost no game will be able to use that much VRAM hence HBCC will basically be useless
@@AliShaikh_744 Ah shit good point. Fuck why do they put this feature on the cards that dont need it? Like imagine this on the Nvidia cards of last gen that would have atleasted helped.
@@0SynergyRadeon VII is more a heavy compute card. You might get good results out of HBCC running non gaming workloads on the card.
For simple gaming the GPU is kind of bad value for money.
Maybe but it would still be limited by the theoretical max 16GB/s speed of PCIE 3.0 while one channel of DDR4 3200 has a bandwidth of 25.6 GB/s so the PCIE bus may already already be a bottleneck in the current dual channel DDR4 3600 system and higher bandwidth ram might not help a lot more but idk. (Idk what the actual bandwidth is in practice though)
The 7800x3d only needs 6000mhz DDR5 and just like the other Zen 4 CPU’s it doesn’t benefit when you go higher.
The Starfield clip shows pretty well how a game can run on an optimized platform. It’s just insane.
The recent Intel Xeon max series can use its integrated HBM2e as cache and system ram or use only hbm as system memory
Interesting, I didn’t know that. Thanks!
I wonder how the old x99 platform will handle this. I ask because tonight i plan to build my vega 56/xeon e5 2680 v4 system and enable this feature and maybe..just maybe..quad channel ram will give this a boost. Fingers crossed
I doubt it, even dual channel DDR4-1600 (yes that speed exists in the JEDEC spec) has significantly more throughput than PCIe 3 x16, but it might depending on the software and HW implementation: does the GPU use DMA or does the data need to be elaborated on the CPU? because this 2 scenarios i would expect to behave differently at varying throughput and latency
@@rubenfasola5402 there was nothing scientific about my experiment sadly, and I probably should have turned it off and on to compare, but for some games I can definitely tell the 0.1% lows must have been better. It produced a sickly smooth fps in combination with a 1080p monitor with black frame insertion.
I have a rtx 3070 on a MSI B550-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard that uses this. All I had to do was turn it on in the pcie bios settings. Then I no longer had vram issues in Detroit become human on high resolutions.
Not a bad show for the vega 64 im impressed with the performance specialy in starfield.
I got a gigabyte vega 64 about a month ago for £100 , so getting your sapphire for 117 was a great deal , thanks for the vid
I had one good use of HBCC on my vega64. I could use it to force a render to go through that would normally crash due to running out of vram. A render going through x3 slower is infinitely better than never finishing at all. Haven't had to do it in recent years so no clue if it still works with Adobe products, but if it does it at ~$120 its a good value for hobby fun.
HBCC might be a feature slightly more suitable for systems with budget intel 12th gen cpus or newer with ddr5
I wonder if HBCC would work better on a DDR5 platform. Do you have a system you could test that with?
It shouldn't... PCI-E bandwidth is far lower than typical DDR4 bandwidth. Latency of DDR5 is slightly worse or at best same (typically).
From my testing I've observed Vega 56/64 lose fps (over 10-20% loss in some cases) when SAM is disabled. Maybe try retesting few titles with resizable bar/SAM enabled in future with tuned HBM timings. Great video none the less.
My Vega 64 SAM video is coming in about a week, maybe longer depending on other factors. Out of interest, which games are you seeing that kind of benefit in? So far, only Forza and Fortnite have given more than 10%, with everything else being almost indifferent.
@@IcebergTech System used for testing: Ryzen 5900x 4.4ghz all core 1.23v, X570s aorus master, (Viper steel 8gbx4) 32gb B-die 3600 cl14-14-14-28 TRFC 250 1.45v, Vega 56 Pulse (stock ROM). Gains when SAM is enabled on these games: AC Valhalla 10-11%, Cyberpunk 9-10%, Forza 5 23-24%, Horizon zero dawn 9%,Warzone 2 12-13%,RDR2 10%. Slightly tuned HBM timings (Using AMD Memory tweak tool XL). If your card has samsung hbm then it'll tune much better than hynix hbm. Looking forward to your future upload :)
worth mentioning is also the fine-vine technology that applied here quite niecely. If you would retry the tests, the vega56 is now pretty close to 1080 in most of the titles.
I recall that in Far Cry 5, HBCC really helped with smoothness with the HD texture pack. It was a stuttery mess without it, but totally smooth when i turned it on.
And the game really used all the allocated VRAM i gave it, went all the way to 16GB used after like 15 minutes of playing.
If it could work, Stable Diffusion people would really love this feature
thanks for these enjoyable videos. theyre also very informative and interestingly presented
If you want a good showcase for HBCC in a game check out Greedfall in the later cities. It allowed me to keep textures on Ultra and have a smooth gameplay, it was maybe the first WOW moment for HBCC back when I still had a V64. Without it the game would run out of VRAM as you kept playing and would murder the frametimes.
It would be interesting to see HBCC with fast DDR5 but I understand that you don’t have the ability now. In theory it should help. Maybe with quad channel or more you’ll get a proper improvement as well.
Can you try this on an AI task such as Stable diffusion XL whit a very large batch or Deep Floyd IF or LLama 34 B/ 70B ...etc
I had hoped there would be some exploration of AI improvement. Seeing performance difference for 13b or SDXL but perhaps one of the AI focused folks will see this and experiment.
crazy that HBM is really needed for today games than it was back in the old days (-2017'esque)
just got an upgrade in the mail and uninstalled my vega56 and searched for vega content and saw your video uploaded just a couple hours earlier; what a coincidence. I'm impressed by the relevancy of titles benchmarked. Usually I'm left scratching my head why people would choose a set of two dozen random single player titles of the last 5 years that together demonstrably have a couple thousand unique players per month. Your mix of games is perfectly relevant or interesting to me. Like how fortnite is usually a good indication of unreal engine performance.
There was a macbook pro 15" 2018 with an HBM version of the RX 5700 xt iirc. Could be a fun one to look at
This feature would probably be nice for neural net training or something like that, although there’s no cuda on amd so…
A little late to the party but One other card with 16gb of hbm2 and hbbc was the forgotten vega frontier edition, also has both pro edition and adrenaline driver support. Currently running one with the x399 platform and has been a very solid card.
How I miss my Vega 64. Overclocked + undervolted with a tweaked fan curve and it shredded everything i needed it too.
This kind of feature would absolutely dominate at heavy AI workloads, especially for image generation. Unfortunately, I can't imagine any manufacturer hurting their high-end professional card sales like that.
The HBCC concept is super interesting to me. Sure it may be slow and power hungry compared to modern cards, BUT for production workloads having access up to 128GB+ of ram is *extremely* interesting. Also if you still have the card, I'd love to see it ran with a DDR5 system just out of morbid curiosity.
I have 32 GB of RAM so the card will be used on my physical RAMs, right?
Yeah I have a Vega 64, pretty good card and it really benefited from undervolting, I tried the HBCC in Forza, while it worked, I didn't get the notice of running out of video memory, the game would end up loosing so much performance over time it would end up in the teens or even single digits if left idle in freeroam. Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 does play well on low to med sitting on the card, but that game if you got the Vram it will use that vram, enabling HBCC will also seem to make things slow over time, I didn't do much testing with it myself, I just kept it off as I didn't feel like restarting my game every 30min to an hour.
I have this card and the only game i found use massively the hbbc memory extension is 7 days to die. It is happy to eat all your vram extended over the 8 Gb. My max was 14.3gb. and it helped a lot in mean of FSP.
most people talking about hbcc dont test Space Engineers, it eats up gobs of ram i think i saw it at 26gb ussage at one point. im using a frontier edition though at 16 gbs vram. awsome video!!!!!
Thanks!
Grabbed a strix vega 64 last month for £120 and regret nothing it runs great and OC to 1740mhz it never misses a beat
I have a bit of Frankenstein of a system. It's an old Alienware Aurora R5 I've owned since new. I ordered it during the first big GPU shortage during a cyber Monday special. I spec'd it with a 6700k 2 Rx480's 8GB and a few other good options like the cd-drive. I've pretty much replaced everything but the 6700k and it's factory AIO liquid cooler.
-i7 6700k @ 4.7GHz @1.4V
-Vega 64 Limited Edition Liquid cooled 8GB HBM2 (which I snagged off marketplace for a deal.) with the memory over clocked to bump up the bandwidth from 483.3 GB/s to 555.5 GB/s. (helps HBCC I think) cleaned it up and replaced it's thermal paste and shoehorned it into the chassis after some modifications to the case and removing the lower drive bays and trimming some plastic.
-swapped out some of the old fans for some Artic Slim P12's , 2 on the CPU AIO as a push pull and one on the GPU AIO as a push, all acting as exhaust creating a nice passive intake using the factory side vents.
-4x 16gb sticks of HyperX fury GDDR4 RAM running at 2400MHz (MOBO limited, 34/3600 MHz capable iirc.) for 64GB total physical memory.
-For storage I got rid of my old 256gb M.2 drive and 1.8TB HDD combination and replaced it with an Intel DC P4608 series PCi-E SSD.
It's an older enterprise grade data center SSD that has faster read/writes on average than any M.2 I could have gotten to work ( non NVME.)
and it has insane random read/writes paired with high endurance. It's a 6.4 TB drive but it's essentially 2 3.2TB discs on one drive.
So with that in mind I decided divvy an even page file cache from each of them to tune of 32GB each. So with my 64GB of GDDR4 plus the allocated combined 32gb+32gb I now have a useable 128GB system memory.
Once I got that sorted I moved onto the HBCC. I then allocated 32 GB of system memory to be used as VRAM cache.
When I open task manager it shows dedicated GPU memory is 32GB and shared GPU memory is 32 GB but total GPU memory is 64GB. I'm not sure where it pulls the memory from, either it uses the RAM physical memory then the RAM is supplemented by the file cache or vice versa.
Truly an alien piece of hardware now.
I'm curious how HBCC changes performance in something like Blender. Some scenes can be complex enough that VRAM is insufficient, and the scene has to be rendered on CPU+System memory. I wonder if HBCC could allow a scene with theoretically infinite complexity to be rendered on GPU, as long as it had access to enough system memory. Stutters wouldn't be an issue either, since Blender Cycles renders in the timeframe of seconds per frame rather than Frames per Second
Neat to see it's aged decently, but I think my main takeaway is Halo Infinite providing a good fps on an older less popular GPU. I swear that game seems to just decide what should perform well and what shouldn't on a dice roll
I recently got a Vega 56. My main game is COD Warzone and I was getting huge lag spikes. The used system I put it in was also new to me so I wasn't sure the issue. I was able to fix it by dropping the in-game VRAM usage to something low like 50% or 60%. Now it plays smooth. I thought maybe this video would show that the HBCC would help, but I have my fix anyways. Hope this helps someone out there.
Check Vega 64 with higher Resolutions at least like on 4K and redo the test on more games. The results will suprise you how often they sometimes allign even with the newest cards.
great video effort , I've always went with the best latency Ram for price and mostly ATi AMD cards for various reasons. (i have 2 3060's and a 2080ti in my main computer and my other has 2 6800XT's) and my 3rd has a Vega 64) So I feel where your coming from. I like 3D rendering obviously and the gaming isn't so different from what ever box I use.
Setup any nerd with what I have and they will come off the gaming box Meth Habits programed in their orbs over their shoulders pretty fast. I won't be brainwashed any time soon again. You get a Thumbs up for this for sure, I hope you get an optimized system to explore with for sure, deeper!
The big think with HBCC was large scale video editing where the videos are larger than 8GB. Everything loads in the buffer. Also, seriously a sell point for miners because the DAG files got larger and if they couldn't fit in the 8GB memory, they couldn't mine. This was a big issue for 4GB cards that went completely obsolete for miners. I would also imaging that DDR5 and 6 would show better improvements. DDR6 will have bandwidth which will rival GDDR.
Great video thank you. When I had a Vega 56 flashed to Vega 64 bios I used to undervolt and be able to push the core and vram to really sweet clocks.
My card allowed settings of 1800Mhz core and 1150Mhz vram max. I ran it at 1785 core and 1100 vram. In the last of us part 1 core would run 1778Mhz vram 1100Mhz and fps it would get 68-82 FPS. I was extremely happy with that result. Settings 1080p mostly max except shadows. Power usage though 258-270 watts which is pretty high. If I locked at 60 fps vsync power usage dropped quote a bit down to 126-155 watts weird lol.
In Starfield I just wanted to say on AMD ryzen 5000 cpus turning off AMD SMT gains you quite a bit of fps at least it does on my 5900x. As for fps for Vega in Starfield I'm not sure as I now have a 7900xt card. My Vega is in its box waiting to be used by someone again hopefully soon.
do you have screenshot of voltage settings? If I under-volt i have to lover the max clocks- So I menaged to get 1550mhz core with 1v and 1100 hbm on my v56@64 rom
I'm fascinated at this possibly improving VR performance. Hear me out, we have some impressive mods for PC games now, enabling all varieties of VR conversions. But they're regularly hamstrung by traditional VRAM capacities. It's taken up until now to have 12GB+ on high-end and mid-tier cards, and that's what you need to play VR mods of Resident Evil, Crysis, and all the eventual Unreal Engine games using Praydog's injector. I have to wonder if HBCC paired with DDR5 and their potential 5000MHz and up could help bridge the gap.
modding the cooler and bios and figuring out voltages and clockspeeds with my vega 56 was the most fun I ever had with a graphics card.
i love my vega. Been running a vega 64 for years undervolted and overclocked. its cooler, quieter, and performs better then stock. it gets by these days but im here as i look to replace my warhorse. Star citizen needs more than 8gb of vram these days
Just got done playing Halo infinite with Frame Gen and FSR on! Frame times 2.9ms with 180-195FPS 1080p High/ultra.
Rx6600 non xt undervolt to 1125.
Went from 75FPS to nearly 200 FPS with noticeable gains seen on my MSI 27” curved monitor 170hz. Just nasty frame rates with a great looking game too!
I remember buying the Vega 64 card 10 months after getting the GTX1070. Being promised that this thing was going to be the second coming after Nvidia's Pascal.
What we instead received, was a hot, loud space heater that was a Fury X on steroids that managed to outperform my 1070, while blasting out disproportionately more heat and electricity, that was a Miner's Paradise to boot.
But I was sold, I rooted for underdog AMD. Hoping the features would come, they never did. So now the next cards I will buy will be on merit, not branding. Those cards are still my daily drivers 7 years later.
I'm glad you made this video about the HBCC feature and always wondered how that feature would hold up, and it disappoints no doubt. But general performance holds up pretty well with the latest games after driver improvements for a 6 year old card. I think in compute heavy games like CP77 is where this "professional workstation but surplus to requirements" card will truly shine against its chief competition, the GTX1080.
14:10 you know that presets are great for testing, but for playing game, you should not use them, and change options individually, so what unlock what is bottleneck but not lower settings (as one using more vram) which are nor problem.
My 2020 PC had a 3600XT, 16 gigs of ram and a Vega 64 - incremental hardware upgrades (64 gigs of ram first) led me to use the HBCC functionality as the Vega was the last part to be upgraded. The 2 games I played most were HEAVILY modded Cities skylines (which would fill up 48 gigs of ram, 16 gigs of HBCC and 8 gigs of VRAM and still only just run at 30 FPS) and DCS which could fill up the VRAM with textures easily.
I now have a 5800X3D, 64 gigs of ram and a 7900XTX - and the only downfall of the system is PCIE 3 - the motherboard is still the same one from 2017, socket AM4 forever :) - its lasted me longer than even my Socket 7 system from back in the day.
Fascinating! Yeah would be interesting in the future to see how faster DDR5 works :)
You can enable sam on amd drivers with a registry change. Ancient gameplay has a link to the site to get it.
What about 'reverse operation'?
Backwards HBCC, HBM as System Memory over PCIe?
I can't find any 'off-the-shelf' options but, the more I dig, the more I see the possibility.
System RAM and VRAM (seem to) already get enumerated in a shared space.
Whatever allows HBCC to get direct access to sysRAM, seems conceptually 'recyclable' for giving more (high-latency, high-bandwidth) working RAM to old-arse PCIe machines. Why? Why not?
Which BTW,
Vega(s) seem to work in PCIe Gen1 systems, just fine.
(I am #73 for Radeon WX 9100 on 3Dmark FireStrike Ultra, with dual S940 880s on NF4pro)
and the radeon pro SSG i have the second generation that was veeeery short lived . it has 24gb ram and also has an raid 0 ssd 2tb setup built in :) its a freaking fast card
Ideal for watching after school
@IcebergTech Awesome vid. Thanks for this.
Okay, I just picked one up on eBay without a cooler, but I have a couple broken reference RX 580s so I think I can make something happen as far as getting it to run stable. I paid $54.00 for the PCB with 8GB of HBM, I think it was a decent deal. Supposedly, the V64 is better than the RX 5500xt 8GB GDDR6, which is what we use on almost all our budget builds. I know, it's old AF but these are systems for people paying like $325 tops.
HBCC is so good! I am still on my Sapphire Vega 64 Nitro+
I got second place in Mem OC with OG cooler! But i must say it would be cool to get a new GPU
With Resident Evil Village eating away up to 10 gigs ram i was happy to have HBM HBCC
I really want to see HBCC used in things that eat up vram like stable diffusion. That would be huge for old gpus.
Ah, HBM2... I miss it. Those were intriguing days
Using system memory for VRAM is as old as the AGP 'bus' from 1997
Seems to me there was a reason HBCC was abandoned. I wonder how my CL16 3800Mhz RAM paired with my 3950X of 1:1 Infinity Fabric enabled would do. If faster RAM is what the HBCC requires then maybe it'd actually see some kind of performance increase.
This would be interesting with quad channel ddr4 as well. I got quad channel ddr4 @ 3600 in my x299 pc. Sometimes I really dont know if quad channel matters at all for gaming numbers, but maybe the extra bandwidth could help here?
I like this vid so much. I never heard of this hb... Thing. Your commentary is good. When you explaind that it is, I new faster ram would be a good benefit. Waiting for the ddr5 vid of this one. Just for curiousity.
you can enable SAM with a registry entry and the official drivers on older cards.
I think you might have more reliable high quality controllers with a 5800X and they go for about $190 on ebay. I bought a cheap lexar 3600 kit for $50. I'm currently running it at 4000MHz with the full 2000MHz IF to take advantage.
I'd have to agree, a 6000MHz kit would make a big difference.
AMD has always went out and tried new things to see if it will catch on. When their A series APU's came out, you were able to combine the GPU part of the APU with a low tier dedicated GPU (RX 240 ect) to gain even more performance. Which was something really neat, since they were looking out for the poor folks who could not afford high end gpu's at the time.
> to gain even more performance
Well, crossfire worked awfully even with two discrete GPUs.
I have 3870k, 6800k and 7850k APUs on hand and tried pairing them with maximum allowed dGPU for hybrid crossfire. Pretty stupid idea actually. And DX12/Vulkan killed the whole idea of gpu pairing.