True, Userbenchmarks has a huge anti-AMD bias which is kind of annoying. I use AMD Hardware and their claims of what is good and bad about each AMD CPU or GPU is just wrong. Such a shame. I hope the owner of that page starts to take their reach serious and provide unbiased information
Competition is good.... Buuuut intel kind of had this coming. I mean if you look at how they deliberately stalled progress and treated their customers like absolute mugs. Ironic is an understatement.
@@BOZ_11 I know they won't but my point is AMD won't have an incentive to deliver judging by the current state of intel. Such is the state of NVIDIA midrange products.
It's arrogance. Hopefully it doesn't end in a Kodak moment. I remember almost a decade ago when intel fanboys were talking crap about AMD and how the company is close to bankruptcy and Intel chips were quite expensive back then pre-ryzen. No longer an Intel customer but I hope they rediscover their bearing since we don't have any other option than amd which I don't mind along as the price to performance ratio is just.
Well the biggest issues were that intel was too concentrated on optimizing old processes, software, hardware features and the fact the US promised billions in investments that have been used but not provided, meaning intel is basically being scammed by the government
I think you are blaming the wrong persons here. The whole problems started with Brian Krzanich's tenure as CEO, and him believing Intel was so far ahead that AMD and IBM would never be able to catch up. He dried up the R&D budget as cost-saving measures to get more and more money to the shareholders while slowly killing the company while firing and silencing anyone who tried to warn or stop him from doing so. He's the one to blame here as all the problems can be traced back to his decisions. Bob Swan, his interim successor, just tried to put a Band aid on the big problems until Pat Gelsinger took over, but his overly-cautious leading style just made the cracks go wider and more visible. But when Pat got in office, Intel was still an absolute mess and rectifying that will take many years, and he's only in office for 3 years now; the upcoming Panther Lake chips will be the first ones that have actually been fully developed under Gelsinger. I'd wait at least until those chips come out really argue about what Pat can do for Intel. He helped develop the original Core architecture, so it's not like he doesn't know stuff in his domain, but steering a chip company around takes several steps and architectural changes to achieve. Krzanich wasn't wrong about IBM, but AMD did catch up, and then ARM also did, and they lost the very lucrative deal with Apple. Now AMD is well ahead in almost every metric that isn't total sales (mostly due to OEMs and non-tech savvy clients mostly only knowing Intel due to their dominance until Ryzen came out), ARM is cutting into their server and ultrathin share and Apple simply took a chunk of their market for themselves. Thankfully, it looks like Krzanich is now at a point in his career where nobody seems to want him anywhere near their company anymore, so his career is pretty much finished.
That's actually bad for us consumers. No competition means that AMD doesn't have to keep up with anything. In the worst case scenario it's a monopoly, which is even worse.
They do, ARM. This is why they, AMD, assembled with Intel on the x86 Ecosystem Advisory Group due to fear of ARM and RISC V CPUs as these are giving us huge performance gains with extreme low power consumption. I do want to see Intel back in the game, more competition means more innovation and lower prices for us costumers. I remember in the years before Ryzen 1000 series was released, Intel was ditching 14nm++++ CPUs at ridiculous prices, and then AMD came to the park and said, "Here! Have this 8 core 16thread 7nm FinFet CPU we call Ryzen for 300usd", Intel was in shock, the world was still suspicious of what AMD had brought, but truth be told it was nothing but intel's own fault on the lack of innovation due to being in the position of "leader of the pack". Now Intel is trying their best for an AMD move, but both are scared of ARM. And believe me, someone will sucker punch Nvidia and their dominant position anytime soon.
this is what you get when the former CEO doesnt know anything about making chips, a chip veteran is now on the helm, and they know they have to clean the mess the clown ex-CEO did.
@@saricubra2867i still have a sandybridge cpu in my laptop. It’s a dual core 2328m. I just use it for basic web browsing and office applications. I don’t believe in replacing a perfectly working device just for the sake of it. I do feel like replacing it at times, but the thing won’t die😂.
Well glueing together in the sense of having a bottlenecking interconnect. Intel had dual die CPUs ages ago with barely and performance hit because of it.
@@AlpineTheHusky "with barely any perfomance hit" The last one was Pentium D and it makes Bulldozer look like a masterpiece. Then Core 2 Duo came with twice the IPC in one year.
In two words? Shareholder Value. It's pretty much destroying every company that adopts it (RIP Boeing). To be successful there is only one rule you need to know: Customers > Shareholders, but alas, these companies get this the wrong way around for short term gain. Then the company dies.
True, but C-levels generally receive large amounts of their compensation in stocks so they literally have an incentive to prioritize shareholder value over customers. To fix the problem you have to change CEO compensation structure to incentivize customer satisfaction and sales over share price. That and/or they need a clawback provision in their contract that keeps them from pumping share value, cashing out, and bailing before the ship sinks with a big bag of money. Good luck with that.
Isn't that the very model of Wall Street? You have to make (or people perceive you will make) more and more revenue every year or your stock tanks. Let's take a company that makes an excellent product and makes say a billion every year. And let's believe it will stay that way for the forgivable future (won't grow, won't shrink). What happens to its stock price? Will anyone trade its shares?? (I am just an ordinary guy with little knowledge about such things asking a serious question. Also doesn't focus on short term gains have a lot to do with how much the money the CEO is going to make/bonuses top management is going to take home - d@mn (the long-term) shareholders and the company!?)
@@eleghariyes. But the stock market is a fundamental principal of capitalism. CEOs get massive bonuses approved for increasing shareholder value. They dont care about employees or viability, but about their own bank account. And they get the most bonuses by following this ideology.
@@elegharibecause CEOs are traded so often, it means that they are trying to maximize their income for the time that they are there, not to future proof the company or stabilize it.
I think it was dumb for them to get rid of the 15th gen labeling for ultra. when you think of ultra you think of stuff like the extreme editions that Intel used to produce. Those cpus had a special name separated from the rest of the lineup for a reason. Now they're even calling their i5's Ultra. There is nothing ultra about an i5, it's just a middle of the road CPU from Intel. At this point Intel is just throwing names out there and hoping it will stick. It would be equivalent to Ford calling all their mustangs from now on "mustang cobra's" regardless of engine size, or suspension, simply because it's a "mustang."
Ultra has no sense of meaning for a CPU. Are there non-ultra models? Guess the realized that the "I" branding had to go when their CPUs started dying. I hope Intel's CPUs become ultra affordable soon, when they realize no one are buying them.
It's probably a psychological thing. People that aren't PC literate may see that name stand out and choose it thinking that it's the best. Pretty lame when you can't improve performance so you have to change names. I've never seen a company emit so much small 🦐 energy.
Never liked Intel. Here in Germany they once pressured department stores into NOT selling any AMD machines if they wanted computers with Intel on their shelves. Real shady move.
@@commodorex Have you not seen the comments on youtube? They are completely one sided. Userbenchmark is just as honest as many tech sites since they show the benchmark results. And they are similarly biased. That you can't see this must mean you are blind to this bias. As are the AMD trolls.
Yeah people only knew their competition with Amd when in reality they aim the bigger target with only will power and miracle because lack of funding. Because if they just focus designing CPU and outsourcing to TSMC like from 2017-18 they probably can defeat AMD. But intel is only company that has is own fab beside Global foundry is unlikely U.S will company like intel bankrupt because their significant and Taiwan Geopoltical problem with china
TMSC just puts the clients design into silicon. If the design is good as with Apple and AMD the chip is good, if the design is bad as it is with Intel the chip is bad. Don't blame TSMC for Intels errors
@benyomovod6904 no one blame TSMC also other thing Intel fab is new to manufacturing Semiconductor based other company design they started same year as PG becoming CEO so intel need trust from other company before they just sell their own design and chip. And with lunar and arrow lake most of process is done by intel itself.
and they had backdoors for us gov and other to hack you and nothing happened to them, they just downgraded old cpus speed even more.... one of the main reason i think their stock will suvrivre is the fact hey have the us gov in their pocket.... also i enjoyed 10 years of expensive quadcores that were faster 2 or 5% each generation if lucky....
I have always hated Intel for these reasons - Lower core count - High CPU power consumption - Negligible performance improvements - High pricings - Shady business tactics Even though now, I'm rooting for Intel for a comeback so that due to competition, there will be some innovations, CPU (and GPU?) prices will drop and consumers will win in the end.
The pricing ho ho, i rmb hitting $2000 for a 12 cores CPU before AMD release Zen. And their HEDT is always 2 generation behind lols, forcing you to stuck with their shitty quad core.
Here's hoping Intel recovers. Not a corporate bootlicker, AMD is NOT your friend and none of us want them to be the only player in the space. They've got a good long term plan with foundries, they've just gotta get there.
@@inkredebilchina9699 Absolute nonsense. They say that over and over while obvious monopolies exist everywhere. You believe what you're told instead of paying attention to evidence.
@@inkredebilchina9699 you mean like the in the GPU space right now? Where nvidia is so dominant AMD is unable to compete on top-end since R9 290X, and just gives up that space all together?
@@kramnull8962 I don't think couple billions of people bought AMD CPUs 🤣. I got just one 5800x3d couple years ago and it looks like lottery ticket, not gonna replace it for another couple years
AMD became strong and now too strong but Intel was too arrogant to admi it. "Gluing Chips" 😂 they deserve their downfall or we are still stuck with 4 cores and 8 threads in 2024.
When Ryzen hit the market, Intel's answer was a raft of reason NOT to buy AMD, but no reason why we SHOULD buy Intel. It's like asking someone why he or she is voting for X and getting a raft of negative comments about Y. If the best you can do to persuade me is criticize your competition, you've lost, and you know you've lost.
Since nobody seems to actually report on what they said. They said "Gluing Together" while talking about their hit and miss interconnect. Intel had multi die CPUs ages ago with no performance hit but since speeds increased that became less usable with time and their experiment with an "X connection" turned out to bottleneck the CPUs in the same way the 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000 and 5000 series CPUs were. Changing the overall performance depending on what core the task was allocated to and was reliant on a inefficient interconnect that effected overall power consumption states.
Intel challenge is different then & now... AmD steped out if the peocess of producing CPU'$... Intel must try to build a fab that can do what nobody other can to that moment...
I can't see Apple doing that. What would they get out of it? They're not the kind of business that wants to run a chip foundry or make components for other companies to use in their products. Owning Intel would be completely antithetical to the entire business model of Apple.
There used to be a saying "Nobody ever got fired for buying Intel," but sadly that is no longer the case. This is dreadful news. The market desperately needs competition as the nvidia price gouging has demonstrated.
Yeah, Intel should have tried to make dedicated GPUs long before, nowadays they dont have much change to compete with Nvidia, they only have(had) the CPU market.
"if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going'. Yeah about that..... When you have staff admitting in interviews they wouldn't fly on an aircraft they designed/built, that's a seriously bad sign.
AMD always has been the "underdog" that tried bold moves. While it was faster than Intel in the 286/386 era, it may have had a slower FPU in the Pentium era, and no thermal throttling in the early Athlon/Palomino era. Yet it progressively fixed things, integrated HyperTransport from Alpha Dec, integrated Radeon from ATI in their APU, etc. And no FDIV bug, less affected by Spectre and Meltdown, already choose to outsource fab (sold GlobalFoundries in 2009), no complete destruction like Intel 13th and 14th gen CPUs, etc. Always has been the "A Little Less Conversation A Little More Action" kind of guys...
They need to eat even more humble pie IMHO, like how you do have the obviously inferior product, and still have 'locked' CPU's, and change sockets every year or two?
They need to change even the materials used to make a quality chip, probably by the time they recover they will compete w Qualcomm or something most likely. ( Too little too late. )
@@adamtajhassam9188Is not a material problem, Arrow Lake engineers were on drugs while designing the CPU part of the chips and how the memory controller is located.
@@adamtajhassam9188 Not really. The problem is they got hit by multiple issues at the same time. From bad material batches to dying machinery to failing die bonding equipment and delays in material delivery. AMD was lucky in that situation since they barely produce anything themself. So they could yolo it and not risk huge investments.
Sure, but lets hope they dont "recover" anytime soon. They need to bleed some 20% more DC market share and a lot on client before we are near even balance market share between AMD and intel. So dont start hoping yet, its way to early for that,.
Intel has a significant lead in 3D integration technology, particularly with Foveros and EMIB, allowing for higher chip density, improved performance, and efficient heat management. This gives Intel a structural advantage in scaling processors beyond traditional 2D limits, which could be decisive over the next 3-5 years. While AMD has made strides with 3D V-Cache, Intel’s technologies offer more flexibility and scalability at this stage.
You look too young to remember much about the cpu market, but blue team and red team has always done this ebb and flows on who is on top. Only reason why AMD is still around is that Intel was forced to allow competition by releasing its tech to AMD. But AMD was also never afraid to innovate, unlike Intel, which has also caused this slump for them and now they are playing catch up or trying in typical Intel fashion.
Thank you. You just said what I've been repeating since 2004. For me AMD was never about the performance, but the will to innovate despite fearce adversity from Intel and the industry. It's why I always bought AMD despite losing on performance at times. And what people don't realise is that the whole Microsoft favouring Intel did not start just with the whole ryzen 5 debacle and windows 11 24H2. There's been Itanium, 3dnow vs mmx vs sse.. Microsoft only pulled out of itanium when it realised what a disaster it was. Otherwise 64bit would have probably taken longer to reach the pc market
Their new tile design keeps up with zen5 CPUs, and 4%ipc gain over previous gen. Not bad considering its a new architecture, but till they do 3d cache. Sucks that these motherboards are way too expensive, and not worth upgrading to. Once prices drop and the previous gen is sold out, it should be more consumer friendly. The ultra9 has to be around 500 or less to be worth upgrading to, considering the older gen is just as fast and a lot cheaper.
Truth of the matter is Intel got complacent, thinking they would sit at the top uncontested, then AMD caught them with their pants down with the release of Ryzen and the tables were quite literally flipped on the consumer side. Shame AMD aren't able to pull that stroke with Nvidia but I do hope competition returns to both the CPU and GPU markets because that is good for us all as consumers.
I have no idea how Intel doesn't have enough capital. From like 2008 to 2019, Intel enjoyed ~70-80% market share of all x86 CPUs. Even though they are doing poorly now, they still have a ~60% market share (mainly due to those shady deals you touched on). They clearly have mismanaged the crap out of the company.
Here's a hint. In 2015 Intel wasted over 300 million on "diversity" in tech workplaces initiatives which is literally burning money away. Intel was riding high at the time while AMD was suffering with Bulldozer. This was the money Intel just threw away of what I'm aware of. I know they burned away more money along the way on dead end initiatives. What defines wealth is not really how much you possess but how much you hemorrhage. You can earn $1 million a week but burn away $1 million plus 1 at the same time, you will end up on the streets.
Diversity when done incorrectly IS bad for a company. When you start to hire people based on quotas, based on gender or skin color rather than competency that's when the company goes down. Smart people come in different genders and colors. Just hire the best mind for the job and nevermind how they look like on the outside.
People don't say this because it is taboo. Just look at the Oceangate disator. "The OceanGate CEO who is trapped on a 22-foot submersible on an ill-fated voyage to see the Titanic wreck once explained how he didn’t hire “50-year-old white guys” with military experience to captain his vessels because they weren’t “inspirational.” Stockton Rush, 61, added that such expertise was unnecessary because “anybody can drive the sub” with a $30 video game controller."
its a touchy subject cuz the moment you Talk about if someone is getting a little lost in the plot of performative diversity hordes of weirdos come out of the woodwork and start talking about DEI shit and affirmative action and woke skull measurements
@@Lunacy4 Woke skull measurements sounds like a derivative of progressive eugenics. The same people that gave us forced sterilization of the "undesirables" in state funded institutions starting in the 1890's which wasn't formally banned until the 1970's. The Japanese still had a functioning eugenics program all the way up to the 90's. Now days we just let pharmaceutical companies do the dirty work while being subsidized by the government. ESG and DEI are also sponsored and funded by the modern day progressives who have a desire for social engineering as a way to equalize/ neutralize the masses as subordinates to certain corporations and the government. Essentially what it turns into is subsidized slavery.
@@Lunacy4 exactly. Like we can have a civil discussion using some common sense about the topic then the racists take that as an opportunity to make it about something entirely different.
It's a good theory, but then you run into problems of bias within the managers. Even bias they aren't aware of. They subconsciously favor certain demographics, getting the old 'gut feeling' that one employees is trustworthy and another wouldn't fit in. You can't outright say any one individual was hired or rejected based on gender or race, but then you look at your company statistics and notice that the vast majority are white and male. Some HR departments try to fix this by blinding the early stages of the hiring process - the people making decisions never actually see names or photos, so it's impossible for them to be biased - but that doesn't work once you get to the interview stage.
"Why is Apple failing? When Apple started, we were 10 years ahead of the competition. What happened in 10 years? Apple stood still and the competition caught up. Apple's solution is not to slash and burn but to innovate out of the problem." Steve Jobs, 1997
@@rebjr6615finding a job at a company that truly values you isnt possible. Thats what capitalism is. They'll always get rid of you if it benefits their stockholders in the short term. Lower employee expenses look good until you cant develop good products anymore.
@@willywonka6487That wall street speculative nonsense is irrelevant for the future of companies. What people don't mention is that Intel was losing A LOT of money with their Intel Foundry Services and would be on the risk of bankrupcy. What else could explain the layoffs and the TSMC 3nm nonsense (core architecture matters a lot more than transistor density), i7-12700K still has better perfomance per watt than some Zen 4 chips to this day for being hybrid and the strong IPC. But no, they switched to newer process node and pulled a Ryzen moment (with the exception of the X3D chips, there's no way that Ryzen CPUs would be that fast with Intel's own fabs).
@@saricubra2867 The thing people dont understand is that AMD is using a foreign fab to produce their designs as small and new as possible. Intel is making insanely well optimized and feature rich designs on in some cases decade old hardware. Intel 14nm++ was closer to 10nm than AMDs CPUs.
up's and down's. Actually the Q3 results where not bad for AMD largely speaking, they gained share where it matters the most for them, in the DC. AMD has over the past 7 years had a tendency to drop after earnings. No biggie, AMD stock is doing fine, and has been doing fine whether you look at 6month - 1,2,3,4,5,6 years, its all soldig gains. 15% drop was on top of a 4% gain day before, so its more like 10% drop really. Zoom out a bit and look at the general picture.
@@Ncloud back then it was actually still pretty good, especially the 10900k i had was absolutely insane 5,4 allcore back then was crazy and it did 4266 c14 with maxed out secondary and tertiary timings. but now their ram controllers either don't fucking work at all or you have to fiddle in the bios for 39 days straight until you get lucky with the 7 different voltages that have a sweetspot lol it started to really go downhill from 11th gen onwards
@@N0rth0M-1 9th Gen removed HT, that for me was the start of the end. They stagnated and forgot what competition was, now they're caught with their pants down trying to catch up. A literal Hare & the Tortoise story
AMD sold garbage for quite a long time also and look at them now. We should all be hoping Intel can fix this sooner rather than later, no competition is not good for consumers.
That brings back memories! I remember when the Pentium 4 was first announced and there was all sorts of hype about how Netburst was the future and would quickly scale to 10GHz. Willamette was a promising start - fast with the right (recompiled) workloads but a bit power hungry. Northwood was a beast of an architecture and an overclocker's dream that ran pretty much everything well and lived up to a lot of that early promise... then Prescott happened, Netburst hit the scaling wall and customers weren't quite so thrilled by an expensive and underwhelming space heater.
I live in a city where there is a HUGE Intel factory and its like half the economy and employment of our city and if they go bankrupt and leave it will be very bad, I hope that doesn't happen.
If 15th gen would have been compatible with last gen motherboards, and they had slashed the price it could have been something of a win for Intel. A stable cheap upgrade for Intel users that's more power efficent, and less heat while getting at least close to the same performance, would be a lot more appealing to those currently running Intel pc's. How they figured it made sense to go with a new socket, then expect consumers to pay double for a new cpu and motherboard, while getting less performance is stupid. There is 0 reason to buy 15th gen
We can all blame this on the previous Intel CEO's who didn't invest in the company's future and became too confident on their node lead which was eventually surpassed by TSMC and has there for allowed their competitors to not just match but beat their products its so bad that even they them selves now have to use TSMC's foundry to make their own chips they apparently didn't even have the same EUV machines used by TSMC on their 7NM nodes and were only able to acquire them recently.
Intel could always buy EUVL machines from ASML. They didn’t fear competition until Apple showed them what ARM chips on 5nm can do. Now only after losing their value proposition, Intel is panicking.
@@jansix4287 that was the main problem they always could have bought them but their CEO's at that time were dumb as a doorknobs didn't wanna commit to them early on so Intel is now heavily behind the competition.
We need competition in the market. That said Intel deserves this after all the bad business practices they pulled over the year, especially to undermine AMD. And better yet AMD doesnt even need to do anything to make them look bad, they did this to themselves
it's hard to say anything without mentioning "they had it coming long time". remember the 14nm node and how long they refused to innovate and invest in the better node? yeah. that backfired and that's what it is today.
Now there are articles citing how Pat Gelsinger screwed up the deal with TSMC and had to pay full price. I won't be surprised if Intel shareholders actually vote for another CEO replacement. Remember the whole 13/14th gen issue was entirely him to blame.
On the flip side, tsmc would never favor them on pricing like apple or amd who are their biggest priority customers for each node shrink anyway, which intel has to worry about. They would never be able to match capacity amd has blocked off because to tsmc...they just are a temporary customer.
What are you talking about, Intel’s shitty new 285k is $600+ not to mention the new motherboard you need to buy since they changed the socket. 9800x3d is still AM5
Unfortunately most of Intels business is corporate and prebuilt system integration not normal gamer/consumer sales, so take sales numbers/rankings with a grain of salt.
Not this gen, maybe the next. Still not worth upgrading to a zen5 ATM, unless you want the x3d for gaming. I'm on intel too, but I don't feel the need to upgrade. My rig isn't high end either.
I remember back in the days when Intel was pretty much dominating the market in the early 2010s after AMD released their Bulldozer CPUs. Ended up getting the FX 8350 which I then replaced with an i7-6700k a few years later. Intel had such a massive lead over AMD in the market that they got too comfortable, releasing overpriced CPUs based on the same architecture, over and over again until AMD came back with Ryzen and turned the tables to their favor.
Also Brian had a chemistry in bachelor's and the guy before him was a marketing guy. Lisa Su and Jensen are both electrical engineers who understand their product well.
They renamed their products for no reason, launched a new platform and the cpus barrely manage to keep up with the previouse gen, as well as insane prices. What were they thinking?
Intel has tried graphics cards a couple times. The problem is that they never go full send. They just half ass it then turn it in to their next integrated graphics for laptops and servers.
The ARC cards are at least... well, not hugely impressive, but they do hold their own against similar-priced offerings from nvidia and AMD. Certainly better than the old Intel Shitsets. If Intel keep advancing their design they might well have a good product - but there is plenty of opportunity to screw it up yet.
@@vylbird8014 Having been through the product cycle a couple times I can reassure you that's how it always starts out. Then it's relegated to another integrated chipset. I suspect it'll be no different this time.
Yes, you say that it doesn't benefit us as users for AMD to be on top now, but when Intel was on top almost all the time, you just applauded and laughed, saying what a crap company AMD is, hypocrites. I'm very happy for AMD, now they just need to kick out Nvidia and everything will be fine.
AMD couldn't beat Nvidia when there was no technological difference (series 10 and earlier). Now, AMD is far behind Nvidia and has to compete against DLSS and RTX even more mature. AMD will need a miracle to regain relevance (they recently lost even more market share).
Any monopoly is not good for consumers, regardless of who is on top. If we want reasonable prices and quality products, then all three companies need to be competing well.
Currently, Intel is being sanctioned by China for having a hardware backdoor in their products that can't be turned off except by our government. I thought this was typical trade war stuff until I looked into the details. Not only is it real, but it's been known globally since 2017. Intel processors run a hardware subsystem hidden from the user that loads before their OS, and runs while the computer is off, and can access the computer while it's off. This is marketed as a feature for enterprises and businesses to be able to completely take over their systems remotely and even make changes when they are off remotely. In truth, it's on every Intel processor, can't truly be disabled, and when the user toggles it off in BIOS, it doesn't actually toggle it off. Intel AMT/ME technology. I learned this recently, and this should be global news. More so than news about Intel's latest processors performing 5 or 10% worse than the competition. This makes me so glad I avoided Intel.
Wait until you discover that AMD's equivalent for quite literally the same thing as "Intel Management Engine" exist and is called "AMD Platform Security Processor". Edit: Just the very first sentence about it: "The AMD Platform Security Processor (PSP), officially known as AMD Secure Technology, is a trusted execution environment subsystem incorporated since about 2013 into AMD microprocessors." 2013. But Intel is problematic for having the same since 2017 (as it was a big secret, lmao), as you say. AMD cultists are seriously worse than Apple ones, that's for sure.
How do they fall from grace? By pulling an IBM/Nokia, by releasing the same product for 10 years, creating an ivory tower & falling behind. Intel re-released the same 4 core CPU over and over for 10 years. AMD re-released the same 8 core CPU over and over for 7 years. When ARM and Nvidia release a CPU, both AMD and Intel are going to be in deep trouble.
The system is breaking down because. they have got the mindset screwing over. your customer's employees infrastructure and innovation is a good business plan while giving record breaking bonuses to CEOS and CFOS and all the top end when America is built on innovation. We didn't make steel that was good enough. We made the best steel on the planet. faster, better than everyone else. That was innovation. Then we connected the east with the West and became a real country, not just a bunch of colonies. or towns and cities Innovation is what got our system going in the first place, which was 1900s with the. Model T on assembly line. The corporate mindset at the time was understanding innovation is a big part of the system. So Model T stopped being innovated with and then they started with the strong army, the population. kind of like the KGB. and later times. People keep thinking or saying that these CEOS keep doing things that must be a 5 brain move. But it's the easiest way for them to get their quarterly bonus. That's all. It's the easiest, quickest way to get the biggest, fattest quarterly bonus than market and spin it. to say yes, this is best. And these people believed their own spin. The only thing they do with their money is private jet, big house. Then sit here and talk about how amazing they are on Twitter or X, or whatever it's called now, which was something in the 90s which was extreme this and extreme that all that happened in the 90s. But whatever. Anyway, I am using text. I have a learning disability. I've been finally for disability for the past 8 years. I am still waiting. This system has collapsed multiple times in my working life. But instead of fixing it, they just bailed out the rich. with billions, hundreds of billions of dollars just given. to the rich. I understand there's going to be people who say I have no idea what I'm talking about Minimum wage has not gone up since 1997. You don't believe me based off of the information$7. 25 cents was established in 1997. Look at the tax records going back from 1997 till now the base pay has not increased since 1997 It's provable. they all lie they all cheat they all steal. and we're getting to a point where the system is collapsing the biggest corporations get bailouts but they still do the same thing because they get bailouts. So why would they change? our entire system is collapsing and they're so busy sitting here talking about how amazing they are and flying around a private jets. They don't realize they're health care is getting screwed too indirectly and directly. The people who produced the food aren't having kids anymore because they can't feed themselves. The people who produce the housing can't afford a house so they're not having kids because they're having troubled living with them by themselves without living with their family My generation was the first generation to live with. their family members. in the United States and them asking why isn't y'all out on your own now because it's been a voyage hasn't gone up since 1997 and I was saying that in 2006 I want you to understand 2006 I was living with my mother working 50 plus hours a week between two jobs. and having nothing to show for it. Why would anyone have kids in this world?
Republicans in the Senate are opposed to it, and some Democrats in States like West Virginia was opposed. Democrats need about 65 seats in the Senate to ever pass a Seattle style living wage Act.
The stagnation wasn't hard to imagine though. We're talking about comparing Haswell, the legendary i7 4770k against... Piledriver. The gaming performance between an FX-8370 and a 4770k is wildly different. That was a time when you could literally double your FPS going to Intel. When competition literally does not exist, and even i3 offerings often beat AMD's best for lower prices, it's hard to imagine a world where you aren't progressing forward. Intel had huge success in architecture with Nehalem and Westmere and then with Sandy Bridge and then Haswell, while AMD flopped with Bulldozer and Piledriver. The other problem is that they rested on their laurels even when Ryzen was released. It was essentially a matter of "Yeah it's an improvement... _but we're is still faster in gaming._ " And that mentality persisted until Ryzen 5000 dropped and THEN Intel paid attention, realizing far too late that they were suddenly beaten across the board in every metric and couldn't remain competitive anymore. The V-cache stuff just added salt to the wound.
Intel is not the kind of company to die in this industry. They’re too big to just fall apart. I’m buying intel stock with the full expectation that they either recover, or they get bought out or merge with another company.
I don't think we should be suprised at seemingly undefeatable companies getting defeated or in a progress of defeat in a world where Pan Am, Kodak and RCA had bitten the dust
@@saricubra2867 I got it for a good price well knowing its limitations. That's a damn fine processor for what I use if for - maybe could consume less energy, that's it.
It's fascinating how people emotionally attach themselves to corporations and their products. Maybe it's because people aren't religious anymore. Either way, products can be better or worse - people can be stupid or smart.
hOW to dig your own grave? - Throw your iconic name out the window, - avoid the last gen stability issues - make a new product that absolutely sucks than previous one, or, similar to previous ones. - Bad quality service.
About "deserving" a downfall it's a mixed feeling : Keep in mind that DIY market is very far from being the main source of income for Intel / AMD / Nvidia even more obvious for companies like Qualcomm, Samsung, Broadcom and such. Gold moment for DIY was around the release of Ryzen and I'm really waiting for Intel to sink so that there won't be any competition in the x86 market letting AMD cooking a Skylake µarch 14nm++++++ moment only for people to complain again about the (deserved) stagnation. 😊 Très bonne journée, Bien cordialement, N/A
I think this is analogous to AMD's Ryzen moment, primarily because the Linux benchmarks for Arrow Lake are actually quite good. Usually this is a sign that the chips just need a generation to fine tune and some bug fixing to shine on Windows. Wendell @ Level1Techs new Linux channel covered this. Also Phoronix covered this, I believe
If I had to be honest... Then yes, The Mobile CPUs of intel are actually fine. I was using i7 14700HX and I have no problems or any instability issues and When I talk about the Desktop ones. They said that the K lines are the ones that are affect.
I had been an engineer at Intel for years before I moved on and worked under Brian/Bob/Pat. Each of them made their fair share of mistakes. People had lots of high hope with the latest CEO but he apparently failed to deliver either. In fact, I think Bob Swan is the safest bet. He doesn’t have the skills to make Intel to the top again but he probably can keep Intel afloat like any past giant like IBM or GM. But he was apparently not the good enough for the shareholders. After Pat took the helm, he made quite some rambunctious decisions which drained Intel’s cash flow. Don’t forget he also meddled with lots of politics which alienates customers, too.
Honestly, good. Because intel CPU's always gets the same "Spector" problem, they lose performance yearly due to patches. Worse of all they are all power hungry and always near melting point even on 240MM AIO. Also, the eco core and "performance" core stuff is the biggest waste of money. Why i'm paying for "ECO" cores on my high performance CPU that makes it even suck more power and more heat.
Problem with more tariffs. as no competition. So prices go up every time. I remember this happening when Obama said Heron creased the taxes all imported products used to be able to buy a tire for less than fifty bucks and it'd be a high rating tire of 120 mile an hour. Now you buy a tire for 100 hours. That's a 80 mile an hour tire. rating not good for the average person increasing the cost of living more with more tariffs Bad for business. Bad for the economy. Bad for the average consumer.
Intel not being able to roll out 10nm in the timeline they expected to is what I contribute their situation today to. They had bungled it up and then had to squeeze more out of 14nm to continue having something to bring to market.
This happened because still in this latest launch, they tried to lie to everyone saying this new generation use 50% less power, but they simply made their CPUs use more power from the 24 pin intead of the CPU connector.. Thinking people were so stupid that we would only measure the power usage from the CPU connector
I dont trust Intels CEO- u need new innovation not pushing fabrications solo , need better quality materials and creative ideas to make a quality chip.
@@adamtajhassam9188 The problem is, intel focuses more on a complete and integrated package on a mature node (since they actually own the production) They actually have accelerators, coprocessors, software and tools that can work well with the hardware. AMD got a fast core, thats it. AMD took an insane gamble that nearly landed them a huge share holder lawsuit, that luckily panned out ok. AMD has way more mobility since they are using the newest node possible because of them not producing anything themself.
@@warehousetechtips And still ahead with software translation... Apple is going more so the Intel route since they actually put in dedicated hardware to accelerate stuff. AMD just does bare core silicon compute for most stuff
I think it was because their io-die for zen 5 sucked so they pushed it back to zen 6 launch and re-design new io and carried zen 4's io to new generation. Zen 5 was supposed to work well with 8000mhz speeds. Zen 4 and Zen 5 ccds are bottlenecked by the io-die which is built on worse packaging technology.
Well AMD is now hitting the issues Intel is hitting. Except AMD doesnt has to own the manufacturing fabs. Intel was optimizing for mature nodes and hardware feature rich architectures. AMD goes for the newest node possible with "as simple as possible" CPUs
They lost $16.6 billion dollars last quarter alone which is horrendous for any company but especially Intel who were an absolute money printing machine for decades. The stock price has collapsed for good reasons - if the financials were healthy and the outlook was good, that massive and long-lasting fall in their share price wouldn't have happened.
Nah bro, the interest for the new Intel CPUs was at an all-time high, because we all wanted Intel to come up with something good and properly compete with AMD, forcing each other to innovate, keep progressing and keeping prices low. We already see the effects of AMD keeping 17 of the top 20 spots for the best selling CPUs - their prices just suck, especially compared to just 2-3 years ago. I bought my 5800X3D just a month after its release in MAy 2022 for just €300. €300 for the best gaming CPU at that time!!! Now the 7800X3D is €450+ and the new 9800X3D already appears at some retailers for €550+ or almost double the price of its grandaddy. 2 times increase in price in less than 3 years is not "inflation"" or "manufacturing costs" and it's NOT a good step forward. I truly believe intel deserve every single bit of the sh**storm that came their way and will keep on coming, but they will have to get up eventually and get their sh*t together. Turning to TSMC wasn't a mistake and was the first step in the right direction. Removing defects from the production line of a CPU fab isn't as simple as dusting and vacuuming the place. They have to go deep, find the flaws in their manufatucing proccess and the causes, eliminate them and only then resume their own manufacturing. This will take at best MONTHS, but realistically more than a year. In the meantime someone has to produce CPUs, so they can sell something and get feedback to know which way to go. What intel need right now is completely new architecture and platform and they know it. This 1851 socket will probably have really short lifecycle, most lickly a simple refresh of the 285, 265 and 245 CPUs and will switch to a completely different layout. They need it, cause this platform simply doesn't have what's needed to complete with AMD.
Also I'm not 100% positive if tariffs will be on every product made outside of the US. Im pretty sure a bill has to get signed, and it won't take effect immediately. However if those tariffs do get put in place, it will incentivize companies to come back to america. Though Intel's foundry isn't as good as TSMC's foundry, I seriously want Intel company to get better. Even worse Taiwan is in danger by the CCP, so what happens if war breaks out there? Basically almost every tech company is kinda screwed because they heavily rely on TSMC's foundry to make these amazing world leading chips. Should TSMC also be important to america as a fallback or backup plan? Honestly I have more questions than answers. As we know having a monopoly gets rid of competition and potentially deals, theres is a such thing as too many choices, however there's mainly 2 companies making x86 cpus and 3 companies to make dedicated GPU's. Adding more to a competition is fine, adding too many manufactures to make cpus can be hard to follow up on who makes the best products for the money.
Intel is having a genuine Phenom FX moment. Let's hope they can come back in a span of couple generations, though. Otherwise they'll just switch places, with AMD demanding $999+ for their top consumer chip.
I remember when Zen came out, so many people were saying stuff like 'Intelnis too big to fail' or 'Intel has a cpu in their drawer, which let Zen look like 10 year old tech'. Look where we are now.
My brother's 2017 laptop has amd APU and dGPU, the dGPU is bottlenecked by the CPU itself 😂 When compared with my 2013 laptop which had intel 4th gen and Nvidia kepler GT at the time, my laptop can still play 2016 games that my brother can't... And what's more shocking is that they're about the same price Since then, my family has never looked back at AMD products. Maybe i myself switched to AMD for my first ever PC especially when looking at the new 7600x3D, those things only have 65 watt TDP with insane like 7800x3D performance which is crazy...
Let's not forget the history of the Intel compiler shenanigans (See Wendel when he was with Tech Syndicate), and that they were paying nearly $1 billion per quarter to PC OEMs like Dell, to be an Intel exclusive shop. They were a very anti-competitve company that had a monopoly for over a decade. I shed no tears for them.
Intel just posted a 16 billion loss and are being beat out by AMD in datacenter sales. I want Intel to succeed. I just hope these fabs being built can implement their r&d and save the company.
Can they rebound? You are young so I will forgive you for asking silly questions. This is not the first time Intel has been in this position, 24 years ago it had exactly the same kind of debacle trying to push P4 Prescott while AMD were advancing into multicore and 64 bit who introduced them to a large population FIRST. AMD had the faster, cheaper, better chips all round for a good two years or so until Intel released their Core architecture chips. They are a multi billion dollar entity with reasonable brains, they will resolve their issues in due course despite the present pain. I don't say this as an intel fan boy, barring a brief sting on an intel Q6600 I have been AMD CPU for 29 years. I say what I do because necessity is the mother of all innovation and invention. As for the rest of the PC industry, it's a dumpster fire of profiteering that is harming the entire sector, from NVidia's outrageous GPU prices to motherboard manufacturers segmenting their product lines to ridiculous levels where a top end motherboard 10 years ago was around 300 dollars and practically any board over 150 would come with an LED diagnostic to aid in fault finding, now you have to spend a thousand dollars to get the same features. Ram is still relatively affordable at least.
Userbenchmarks crying in the corner after seeing intels downfall and yet still not believing AMD is currently a better choice
LMAO
User benchmark has always been a bad source anyway, according to their gpu stats my 6700xt competes with the 1080ti lol because of Nvidia bias
True, Userbenchmarks has a huge anti-AMD bias which is kind of annoying. I use AMD Hardware and their claims of what is good and bad about each AMD CPU or GPU is just wrong. Such a shame. I hope the owner of that page starts to take their reach serious and provide unbiased information
😂😂😂
Nah, they are waaaay too high on copium.
Competition is good.... Buuuut intel kind of had this coming. I mean if you look at how they deliberately stalled progress and treated their customers like absolute mugs.
Ironic is an understatement.
Wait until January and see how these indie UA-camrs shift goalposts with NVIDIA . Consumers will lose big time if intel actually dies.
@@mikelay5360 intel's not going to die. They've been here before during the Athlon days
@@BOZ_11 I know they won't but my point is AMD won't have an incentive to deliver judging by the current state of intel. Such is the state of NVIDIA midrange products.
It's arrogance. Hopefully it doesn't end in a Kodak moment. I remember almost a decade ago when intel fanboys were talking crap about AMD and how the company is close to bankruptcy and Intel chips were quite expensive back then pre-ryzen. No longer an Intel customer but I hope they rediscover their bearing since we don't have any other option than amd which I don't mind along as the price to performance ratio is just.
@@mikelay5360 they will, when intel has a resurgence.
The CEO and CTO better not get hired in the tech sector ever again. The level of incompetence required to destroy intel, holy shit.
Same for Boeing, etc. It seems like choosing decision making people by their ability to bean counting have very bad long run side effects...
When you get to this level of CEO or CFO etc, you only fail upwards. It's all about who you know in the super rich club.
How do you think things got this way? Corporate incest.
Well the biggest issues were that intel was too concentrated on optimizing old processes, software, hardware features and the fact the US promised billions in investments that have been used but not provided, meaning intel is basically being scammed by the government
I think you are blaming the wrong persons here.
The whole problems started with Brian Krzanich's tenure as CEO, and him believing Intel was so far ahead that AMD and IBM would never be able to catch up. He dried up the R&D budget as cost-saving measures to get more and more money to the shareholders while slowly killing the company while firing and silencing anyone who tried to warn or stop him from doing so. He's the one to blame here as all the problems can be traced back to his decisions.
Bob Swan, his interim successor, just tried to put a Band aid on the big problems until Pat Gelsinger took over, but his overly-cautious leading style just made the cracks go wider and more visible. But when Pat got in office, Intel was still an absolute mess and rectifying that will take many years, and he's only in office for 3 years now; the upcoming Panther Lake chips will be the first ones that have actually been fully developed under Gelsinger. I'd wait at least until those chips come out really argue about what Pat can do for Intel. He helped develop the original Core architecture, so it's not like he doesn't know stuff in his domain, but steering a chip company around takes several steps and architectural changes to achieve.
Krzanich wasn't wrong about IBM, but AMD did catch up, and then ARM also did, and they lost the very lucrative deal with Apple. Now AMD is well ahead in almost every metric that isn't total sales (mostly due to OEMs and non-tech savvy clients mostly only knowing Intel due to their dominance until Ryzen came out), ARM is cutting into their server and ultrathin share and Apple simply took a chunk of their market for themselves.
Thankfully, it looks like Krzanich is now at a point in his career where nobody seems to want him anywhere near their company anymore, so his career is pretty much finished.
That's actually bad for us consumers. No competition means that AMD doesn't have to keep up with anything. In the worst case scenario it's a monopoly, which is even worse.
AMD still got ARM & Apple’s ARM to worry about in future
@@siddharths4676
funny that you stated this now that intel and AMD are teaming up to save x86 seeing that ARM is getting more popular .. haha
i see this comment on every intel video. stop
Yeah, I still remember when Pentium was released, it was years until Ryzen was released that AMD recovered.
They do, ARM. This is why they, AMD, assembled with Intel on the x86 Ecosystem Advisory Group due to fear of ARM and RISC V CPUs as these are giving us huge performance gains with extreme low power consumption.
I do want to see Intel back in the game, more competition means more innovation and lower prices for us costumers.
I remember in the years before Ryzen 1000 series was released, Intel was ditching 14nm++++ CPUs at ridiculous prices, and then AMD came to the park and said, "Here! Have this 8 core 16thread 7nm FinFet CPU we call Ryzen for 300usd", Intel was in shock, the world was still suspicious of what AMD had brought, but truth be told it was nothing but intel's own fault on the lack of innovation due to being in the position of "leader of the pack".
Now Intel is trying their best for an AMD move, but both are scared of ARM. And believe me, someone will sucker punch Nvidia and their dominant position anytime soon.
At this point I'm just waiting for someone to write a book called
"From Pentium to Copium: the rise and fall of Intel"
Good one 😂
Write it! Make a bunch of cash.
Does the book overheat when you open the chapter about the pentium 4?
@@rgracing4109no, but your seat will become uncomfortably hot during that part of the documentary movie when you go to watch it in 4D in 2033.
@@rgracing4109 yes
This is what you get with bad management.
Exactly.
this is what you get when the former CEO doesnt know anything about making chips, a chip veteran is now on the helm, and they know they have to clean the mess the clown ex-CEO did.
@@Wolfrich666 Correction 2 clowns.
Andrew Grove (the greatest Intel CEO imo, who also wrote the excellent "Only the Paranoid Survive") must be turning in his grave.
@@Johan-rm6ec whos the other one?
4:20 - Hubris. Their arrogance was their undoing. They mocked AMD for "gluing" CPUs together - what is Arrowlake? Literally *More* glued together.
Sandy Bridge to Raptor Lake era definetly rules.
@@saricubra2867i still have a sandybridge cpu in my laptop. It’s a dual core 2328m. I just use it for basic web browsing and office applications. I don’t believe in replacing a perfectly working device just for the sake of it. I do feel like replacing it at times, but the thing won’t die😂.
@@antiwokehuman Arrow Lake doesn't work, Raptor Lake does.
Well glueing together in the sense of having a bottlenecking interconnect. Intel had dual die CPUs ages ago with barely and performance hit because of it.
@@AlpineTheHusky "with barely any perfomance hit"
The last one was Pentium D and it makes Bulldozer look like a masterpiece.
Then Core 2 Duo came with twice the IPC in one year.
In two words? Shareholder Value. It's pretty much destroying every company that adopts it (RIP Boeing). To be successful there is only one rule you need to know: Customers > Shareholders, but alas, these companies get this the wrong way around for short term gain. Then the company dies.
True, but C-levels generally receive large amounts of their compensation in stocks so they literally have an incentive to prioritize shareholder value over customers. To fix the problem you have to change CEO compensation structure to incentivize customer satisfaction and sales over share price. That and/or they need a clawback provision in their contract that keeps them from pumping share value, cashing out, and bailing before the ship sinks with a big bag of money. Good luck with that.
Isn't that the very model of Wall Street? You have to make (or people perceive you will make) more and more revenue every year or your stock tanks.
Let's take a company that makes an excellent product and makes say a billion every year. And let's believe it will stay that way for the forgivable future (won't grow, won't shrink). What happens to its stock price? Will anyone trade its shares??
(I am just an ordinary guy with little knowledge about such things asking a serious question. Also doesn't focus on short term gains have a lot to do with how much the money the CEO is going to make/bonuses top management is going to take home - d@mn (the long-term) shareholders and the company!?)
@@eleghariyes. But the stock market is a fundamental principal of capitalism. CEOs get massive bonuses approved for increasing shareholder value. They dont care about employees or viability, but about their own bank account. And they get the most bonuses by following this ideology.
@@elegharibecause CEOs are traded so often, it means that they are trying to maximize their income for the time that they are there, not to future proof the company or stabilize it.
Well the company might fall, but the CEO still makes a load of money
Now people will assume the Ultra branding means the chips suck
ultra suck?
@@dominikkohler5461 "Intel Core Pittance" -UFDTech Brett
I think it was dumb for them to get rid of the 15th gen labeling for ultra. when you think of ultra you think of stuff like the extreme editions that Intel used to produce. Those cpus had a special name separated from the rest of the lineup for a reason. Now they're even calling their i5's Ultra. There is nothing ultra about an i5, it's just a middle of the road CPU from Intel. At this point Intel is just throwing names out there and hoping it will stick. It would be equivalent to Ford calling all their mustangs from now on "mustang cobra's" regardless of engine size, or suspension, simply because it's a "mustang."
Ultra has no sense of meaning for a CPU. Are there non-ultra models? Guess the realized that the "I" branding had to go when their CPUs started dying. I hope Intel's CPUs become ultra affordable soon, when they realize no one are buying them.
It's probably a psychological thing. People that aren't PC literate may see that name stand out and choose it thinking that it's the best.
Pretty lame when you can't improve performance so you have to change names. I've never seen a company emit so much small 🦐 energy.
Never liked Intel. Here in Germany they once pressured department stores into NOT selling any AMD machines if they wanted computers with Intel on their shelves. Real shady move.
And AMD has their army of trolls driving the tech review sites.
@@rluker5344 Are you one of UserBenchmarks' journalists?
@@commodorex Have you not seen the comments on youtube? They are completely one sided. Userbenchmark is just as honest as many tech sites since they show the benchmark results. And they are similarly biased. That you can't see this must mean you are blind to this bias. As are the AMD trolls.
Wont miss those bastards
@@rluker5344 Userbenchmark Enthusiast?
Userbenchmark specialist?
They are competing with TSMC with government money. That does not sound good...
Buddy, TSMC is literally subsidized by Taiwan government, what the hell do you want intel to do,
Yeah people only knew their competition with Amd when in reality they aim the bigger target with only will power and miracle because lack of funding.
Because if they just focus designing CPU and outsourcing to TSMC like from 2017-18 they probably can defeat AMD. But intel is only company that has is own fab beside Global foundry is unlikely U.S will company like intel bankrupt because their significant and Taiwan Geopoltical problem with china
TMSC just puts the clients design into silicon. If the design is good as with Apple and AMD the chip is good, if the design is bad as it is with Intel the chip is bad. Don't blame TSMC for Intels errors
@benyomovod6904 no one blame TSMC also other thing Intel fab is new to manufacturing Semiconductor based other company design they started same year as PG becoming CEO so intel need trust from other company before they just sell their own design and chip. And with lunar and arrow lake most of process is done by intel itself.
and they had backdoors for us gov and other to hack you and nothing happened to them, they just downgraded old cpus speed even more.... one of the main reason i think their stock will suvrivre is the fact hey have the us gov in their pocket.... also i enjoyed 10 years of expensive quadcores that were faster 2 or 5% each generation if lucky....
I have always hated Intel for these reasons
- Lower core count
- High CPU power consumption
- Negligible performance improvements
- High pricings
- Shady business tactics
Even though now, I'm rooting for Intel for a comeback so that due to competition, there will be some innovations, CPU (and GPU?) prices will drop and consumers will win in the end.
indeed it's true their prices are always high even after their price to performance ratio is not good
- needing to constantly change your motherboard for an upgrade
@@cyko5950someones gotta keep the mobo manufacturers in business lmao.
The i7 14th Gen has Actually 24 Cores. 🤓
The pricing ho ho, i rmb hitting $2000 for a 12 cores CPU before AMD release Zen. And their HEDT is always 2 generation behind lols, forcing you to stuck with their shitty quad core.
Here's hoping Intel recovers. Not a corporate bootlicker, AMD is NOT your friend and none of us want them to be the only player in the space. They've got a good long term plan with foundries, they've just gotta get there.
Exactly
well, the monopoly cannot happen. it's highly illegal in the entire world.
@@inkredebilchina9699 yes but we don't want a "4 core, 14nm ++++++++" AMD equivalent era lmao, we need the competition still
@@inkredebilchina9699 Absolute nonsense. They say that over and over while obvious monopolies exist everywhere. You believe what you're told instead of paying attention to evidence.
@@inkredebilchina9699 you mean like the in the GPU space right now? Where nvidia is so dominant AMD is unable to compete on top-end since R9 290X, and just gives up that space all together?
Intel: you know what AMD? Lets team up against NVIDIA using all our resources
AMD: 🤔
amd: imma do it myself 🧤
@@nikolaypetrov9789 It took a couple billion dummies to get AMD where they are.
Wdym? @@kramnull8962
@@kramnull8962 I don't think couple billions of people bought AMD CPUs 🤣.
I got just one 5800x3d couple years ago and it looks like lottery ticket, not gonna replace it for another couple years
AMD is still less than half the size of intel in revenue and market share. I dont think this video makes any sense as of now.
AMD became strong and now too strong but Intel was too arrogant to admi it. "Gluing Chips" 😂 they deserve their downfall or we are still stuck with 4 cores and 8 threads in 2024.
When Ryzen hit the market, Intel's answer was a raft of reason NOT to buy AMD, but no reason why we SHOULD buy Intel. It's like asking someone why he or she is voting for X and getting a raft of negative comments about Y. If the best you can do to persuade me is criticize your competition, you've lost, and you know you've lost.
You’re crazy if you think amd is too strong right now
Since nobody seems to actually report on what they said. They said "Gluing Together" while talking about their hit and miss interconnect. Intel had multi die CPUs ages ago with no performance hit but since speeds increased that became less usable with time and their experiment with an "X connection" turned out to bottleneck the CPUs in the same way the 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000 and 5000 series CPUs were. Changing the overall performance depending on what core the task was allocated to and was reliant on a inefficient interconnect that effected overall power consumption states.
Glued together is actually an industry term for multi chip designs. I think dual GPUs like the titan z or 295x2 are considered glued together.
Intel challenge is different then & now... AmD steped out if the peocess of producing CPU'$... Intel must try to build a fab that can do what nobody other can to that moment...
Imagine Apple actually buying Intel, Jesus Christ that is a dystopian future for PC gamers.
I can't see Apple doing that. What would they get out of it? They're not the kind of business that wants to run a chip foundry or make components for other companies to use in their products. Owning Intel would be completely antithetical to the entire business model of Apple.
@RogerCaplan Intel's Semiconductor fabrication plants...
@@RogerCaplanThey can use it to cut out prices if the srategy ends up working, but it would def be long term stuff
There used to be a saying "Nobody ever got fired for buying Intel," but sadly that is no longer the case. This is dreadful news. The market desperately needs competition as the nvidia price gouging has demonstrated.
Yeah, Intel should have tried to make dedicated GPUs long before, nowadays they dont have much change to compete with Nvidia, they only have(had) the CPU market.
"if it ain't Boeing, I ain't going'.
Yeah about that..... When you have staff admitting in interviews they wouldn't fly on an aircraft they designed/built, that's a seriously bad sign.
@@Anonymous-zu7dh 😆 True enough
The saying was actually "Nobody every got fired for buying IBM". Not Intel.
@@little_fluffy_clouds Yeah, I was adapting.
AMD always has been the "underdog" that tried bold moves. While it was faster than Intel in the 286/386 era, it may have had a slower FPU in the Pentium era, and no thermal throttling in the early Athlon/Palomino era. Yet it progressively fixed things, integrated HyperTransport from Alpha Dec, integrated Radeon from ATI in their APU, etc. And no FDIV bug, less affected by Spectre and Meltdown, already choose to outsource fab (sold GlobalFoundries in 2009), no complete destruction like Intel 13th and 14th gen CPUs, etc. Always has been the "A Little Less Conversation A Little More Action" kind of guys...
I think you forgot the biggest of all, AMD64.
@@redlt194 Indeed, you're right. They paved the way to future of the x86, even Intel licensed AMD's ISA instead to create their own 64 bits variant.
It's Intel Error Lake
😂
Piledriver Lake
Intel bottom of the lake....
Intel There's a Lake?
error lake? more like error ocean 😂😂😂😂
They need to eat even more humble pie IMHO, like how you do have the obviously inferior product, and still have 'locked' CPU's, and change sockets every year or two?
Intel would sell more chips if you didnt need a new motherboard every 2 generations IMO
Or EVERY generation....
As a single consumer, this element is off putting psychologically, one of reasons I choose AMD
I hope intel recovers and competes with amd so amd can make better and cheaper CPUs.
They need to change even the materials used to make a quality chip, probably by the time they recover they will compete w Qualcomm or something most likely. ( Too little too late. )
@@adamtajhassam9188Is not a material problem, Arrow Lake engineers were on drugs while designing the CPU part of the chips and how the memory controller is located.
@@adamtajhassam9188 Not really. The problem is they got hit by multiple issues at the same time. From bad material batches to dying machinery to failing die bonding equipment and delays in material delivery.
AMD was lucky in that situation since they barely produce anything themself. So they could yolo it and not risk huge investments.
Sure, but lets hope they dont "recover" anytime soon. They need to bleed some 20% more DC market share and a lot on client before we are near even balance market share between AMD and intel. So dont start hoping yet, its way to early for that,.
Intel has a significant lead in 3D integration technology, particularly with Foveros and EMIB, allowing for higher chip density, improved performance, and efficient heat management. This gives Intel a structural advantage in scaling processors beyond traditional 2D limits, which could be decisive over the next 3-5 years. While AMD has made strides with 3D V-Cache, Intel’s technologies offer more flexibility and scalability at this stage.
You look too young to remember much about the cpu market, but blue team and red team has always done this ebb and flows on who is on top. Only reason why AMD is still around is that Intel was forced to allow competition by releasing its tech to AMD. But AMD was also never afraid to innovate, unlike Intel, which has also caused this slump for them and now they are playing catch up or trying in typical Intel fashion.
Thank you. You just said what I've been repeating since 2004. For me AMD was never about the performance, but the will to innovate despite fearce adversity from Intel and the industry. It's why I always bought AMD despite losing on performance at times. And what people don't realise is that the whole Microsoft favouring Intel did not start just with the whole ryzen 5 debacle and windows 11 24H2. There's been Itanium, 3dnow vs mmx vs sse.. Microsoft only pulled out of itanium when it realised what a disaster it was. Otherwise 64bit would have probably taken longer to reach the pc market
Their new tile design keeps up with zen5 CPUs, and 4%ipc gain over previous gen. Not bad considering its a new architecture, but till they do 3d cache. Sucks that these motherboards are way too expensive, and not worth upgrading to.
Once prices drop and the previous gen is sold out, it should be more consumer friendly. The ultra9 has to be around 500 or less to be worth upgrading to, considering the older gen is just as fast and a lot cheaper.
@HelloDonkey9 and you sound like a 100 year old man
@@oneanother1Intel have attempted 3d cache in the past. Wasn't the same but it was the idea. It flopped due to lack of innovation again.
Yep. Always interesting to see the coprorate fan boys pushing one or the other when they BOTH hate your guts and make it clear.
Truth of the matter is Intel got complacent, thinking they would sit at the top uncontested, then AMD caught them with their pants down with the release of Ryzen and the tables were quite literally flipped on the consumer side.
Shame AMD aren't able to pull that stroke with Nvidia but I do hope competition returns to both the CPU and GPU markets because that is good for us all as consumers.
I have no idea how Intel doesn't have enough capital. From like 2008 to 2019, Intel enjoyed ~70-80% market share of all x86 CPUs. Even though they are doing poorly now, they still have a ~60% market share (mainly due to those shady deals you touched on). They clearly have mismanaged the crap out of the company.
Here's a hint. In 2015 Intel wasted over 300 million on "diversity" in tech workplaces initiatives which is literally burning money away. Intel was riding high at the time while AMD was suffering with Bulldozer. This was the money Intel just threw away of what I'm aware of. I know they burned away more money along the way on dead end initiatives. What defines wealth is not really how much you possess but how much you hemorrhage. You can earn $1 million a week but burn away $1 million plus 1 at the same time, you will end up on the streets.
Diversity when done incorrectly IS bad for a company. When you start to hire people based on quotas, based on gender or skin color rather than competency that's when the company goes down. Smart people come in different genders and colors. Just hire the best mind for the job and nevermind how they look like on the outside.
People don't say this because it is taboo. Just look at the Oceangate disator.
"The OceanGate CEO who is trapped on a 22-foot submersible on an ill-fated voyage to see the Titanic wreck once explained how he didn’t hire “50-year-old white guys” with military experience to captain his vessels because they weren’t “inspirational.”
Stockton Rush, 61, added that such expertise was unnecessary because “anybody can drive the sub” with a $30 video game controller."
its a touchy subject cuz the moment you Talk about if someone is getting a little lost in the plot of performative diversity hordes of weirdos come out of the woodwork and start talking about DEI shit and affirmative action and woke skull measurements
@@Lunacy4 Woke skull measurements sounds like a derivative of progressive eugenics. The same people that gave us forced sterilization of the "undesirables" in state funded institutions starting in the 1890's which wasn't formally banned until the 1970's. The Japanese still had a functioning eugenics program all the way up to the 90's. Now days we just let pharmaceutical companies do the dirty work while being subsidized by the government. ESG and DEI are also sponsored and funded by the modern day progressives who have a desire for social engineering as a way to equalize/ neutralize the masses as subordinates to certain corporations and the government. Essentially what it turns into is subsidized slavery.
@@Lunacy4 exactly. Like we can have a civil discussion using some common sense about the topic then the racists take that as an opportunity to make it about something entirely different.
It's a good theory, but then you run into problems of bias within the managers. Even bias they aren't aware of. They subconsciously favor certain demographics, getting the old 'gut feeling' that one employees is trustworthy and another wouldn't fit in. You can't outright say any one individual was hired or rejected based on gender or race, but then you look at your company statistics and notice that the vast majority are white and male. Some HR departments try to fix this by blinding the early stages of the hiring process - the people making decisions never actually see names or photos, so it's impossible for them to be biased - but that doesn't work once you get to the interview stage.
Intels profiteering has led them to this, I would say good riddance but we do need competition to keep prices competitive
stocks and shareholders short sightness
true
End up they will lose everything, including stocks.
Not long ago i remember Intel making a comment about "AMD is on our rear mirror and were not ever looking back" lol how bad that comment aged.
"Why is Apple failing? When Apple started, we were 10 years ahead of the competition. What happened in 10 years? Apple stood still and the competition caught up. Apple's solution is not to slash and burn but to innovate out of the problem." Steve Jobs, 1997
Apple saw the silver lining a decade ago and pushed their own platform forward in order to not be held back by Intel.
I work at Intel. Many engineers laid off and they're cutting all the employee benefits😢. Time to find a new job.
@@rebjr6615Time to move to ARM?
@@rebjr6615finding a job at a company that truly values you isnt possible. Thats what capitalism is. They'll always get rid of you if it benefits their stockholders in the short term. Lower employee expenses look good until you cant develop good products anymore.
@@cooltwittertag you clearly don't have experience in the job market outside of corporate conglomerates
Its wild that AMD stock just plummted 15% yesterday and generally falling stock prices. Intel very similar trajectory
its just normal price fluctuation. look at their long term stock price
@@willywonka6487That wall street speculative nonsense is irrelevant for the future of companies.
What people don't mention is that Intel was losing A LOT of money with their Intel Foundry Services and would be on the risk of bankrupcy.
What else could explain the layoffs and the TSMC 3nm nonsense (core architecture matters a lot more than transistor density), i7-12700K still has better perfomance per watt than some Zen 4 chips to this day for being hybrid and the strong IPC.
But no, they switched to newer process node and pulled a Ryzen moment (with the exception of the X3D chips, there's no way that Ryzen CPUs would be that fast with Intel's own fabs).
@@saricubra2867 The thing people dont understand is that AMD is using a foreign fab to produce their designs as small and new as possible. Intel is making insanely well optimized and feature rich designs on in some cases decade old hardware. Intel 14nm++ was closer to 10nm than AMDs CPUs.
up's and down's. Actually the Q3 results where not bad for AMD largely speaking, they gained share where it matters the most for them, in the DC. AMD has over the past 7 years had a tendency to drop after earnings. No biggie, AMD stock is doing fine, and has been doing fine whether you look at 6month - 1,2,3,4,5,6 years, its all soldig gains. 15% drop was on top of a 4% gain day before, so its more like 10% drop really. Zoom out a bit and look at the general picture.
These are just election related stock fluctuations. They went up when the winner became known
they deserve it for selling the garbage that they call product these days
too many people enabled them by buying 14nm+++++++++
@@Ncloud back then it was actually still pretty good, especially the 10900k i had was absolutely insane 5,4 allcore back then was crazy and it did 4266 c14 with maxed out secondary and tertiary timings. but now their ram controllers either don't fucking work at all or you have to fiddle in the bios for 39 days straight until you get lucky with the 7 different voltages that have a sweetspot lol
it started to really go downhill from 11th gen onwards
@@N0rth0M-1 9th Gen removed HT, that for me was the start of the end. They stagnated and forgot what competition was, now they're caught with their pants down trying to catch up. A literal Hare & the Tortoise story
@@N0rth0M-1 It went down from 14th gen onwards, so 14th gen and 200s, everything up till 13th gen was solid
AMD sold garbage for quite a long time also and look at them now. We should all be hoping Intel can fix this sooner rather than later, no competition is not good for consumers.
Time for Intel to give us the Pentium 5, no soyboy tiles or beta cores. Unleash the 200w core and let us achieve the 10ghz Netburst dream.
That brings back memories! I remember when the Pentium 4 was first announced and there was all sorts of hype about how Netburst was the future and would quickly scale to 10GHz. Willamette was a promising start - fast with the right (recompiled) workloads but a bit power hungry. Northwood was a beast of an architecture and an overclocker's dream that ran pretty much everything well and lived up to a lot of that early promise... then Prescott happened, Netburst hit the scaling wall and customers weren't quite so thrilled by an expensive and underwhelming space heater.
I live in a city where there is a HUGE Intel factory and its like half the economy and employment of our city and if they go bankrupt and leave it will be very bad, I hope that doesn't happen.
If 15th gen would have been compatible with last gen motherboards, and they had slashed the price it could have been something of a win for Intel. A stable cheap upgrade for Intel users that's more power efficent, and less heat while getting at least close to the same performance, would be a lot more appealing to those currently running Intel pc's.
How they figured it made sense to go with a new socket, then expect consumers to pay double for a new cpu and motherboard, while getting less performance is stupid. There is 0 reason to buy 15th gen
Intel decided they were so far ahead they didn't need to invest in R&D anymore. It's taking years to turn the ship around and catch up.
We can all blame this on the previous Intel CEO's who didn't invest in the company's future and became too confident on their node lead which was eventually surpassed by TSMC and has there for allowed their competitors to not just match but beat their products its so bad that even they them selves now have to use TSMC's foundry to make their own chips they apparently didn't even have the same EUV machines used by TSMC on their 7NM nodes and were only able to acquire them recently.
Intel could always buy EUVL machines from ASML. They didn’t fear competition until Apple showed them what ARM chips on 5nm can do. Now only after losing their value proposition, Intel is panicking.
@@jansix4287 that was the main problem they always could have bought them but their CEO's at that time were dumb as a doorknobs didn't wanna commit to them early on so Intel is now heavily behind the competition.
@@jansix4287Intel is panicking and many ASML tools being installed for EUV production. I work with a lot of the EUV production.
They became too comfortable as market leader in the past, and now they are paying the price.
Intel has been using the same architecture for the last 10+ years
All the chips that came out in the Lake series.
We need competition in the market. That said Intel deserves this after all the bad business practices they pulled over the year, especially to undermine AMD. And better yet AMD doesnt even need to do anything to make them look bad, they did this to themselves
"Intel inside" toilet
4:00 istg if apple acquires Intel and pushes some driver update that throttles every windows system...
That’s illegal and completely unfounded, why would you think they’d do that? Are you retarded
Why would Apple want Intel? Also, isn't what you suggesting illegal?
@@johntrevy1 is it though?
it's hard to say anything without mentioning "they had it coming long time". remember the 14nm node and how long they refused to innovate and invest in the better node? yeah. that backfired and that's what it is today.
Now there are articles citing how Pat Gelsinger screwed up the deal with TSMC and had to pay full price. I won't be surprised if Intel shareholders actually vote for another CEO replacement. Remember the whole 13/14th gen issue was entirely him to blame.
On the flip side, tsmc would never favor them on pricing like apple or amd who are their biggest priority customers for each node shrink anyway, which intel has to worry about. They would never be able to match capacity amd has blocked off because to tsmc...they just are a temporary customer.
Amd has officially priced the 9800x3d at 479 US$ , We are doomed.......Now AMD is slowly becoming the monopoly
AMD has been pushing the pricing since they pushed out Ryzen 1000. They took an insanely costly gamble to get out a "win or bust"
How much would you expect it to cost?
What are you talking about, Intel’s shitty new 285k is $600+ not to mention the new motherboard you need to buy since they changed the socket. 9800x3d is still AM5
it's cheaper than the msrp of the 7800x3d, which was $500. but yeah... expensive for a octa core cpu. i wish they made a 8600x3d too.
@@GraveUypo 7800X3D MSRP was $449. Not $500.
After 13-14th gen fiasco Gelsinger should retire in shame - he managed to mishandle it completely.
Unfortunately most of Intels business is corporate and prebuilt system integration not normal gamer/consumer sales, so take sales numbers/rankings with a grain of salt.
I’m on Intel at the moment but next time it will be AMD. I’m sure many will do the same.
Not this gen, maybe the next. Still not worth upgrading to a zen5 ATM, unless you want the x3d for gaming. I'm on intel too, but I don't feel the need to upgrade. My rig isn't high end either.
@ yeah I’m holding out until AM6
@@bauer9101 maybe zen7 for me. im interested in that 32core (currently on 13900k).
No I buy the best for my needs which I want to spend.
Mankind is sunsetting PCs and going smartphone only. AMD or INTEL x86 makes no difference.
I wish these videos mentioned how Intel disabled undervolting on laptops. That was the biggest factor for me to go for AMD instead.
I remember back in the days when Intel was pretty much dominating the market in the early 2010s after AMD released their Bulldozer CPUs.
Ended up getting the FX 8350 which I then replaced with an i7-6700k a few years later.
Intel had such a massive lead over AMD in the market that they got too comfortable, releasing overpriced CPUs based on the same architecture, over and over again until AMD came back with Ryzen and turned the tables to their favor.
Also Brian had a chemistry in bachelor's and the guy before him was a marketing guy.
Lisa Su and Jensen are both electrical engineers who understand their product well.
They renamed their products for no reason, launched a new platform and the cpus barrely manage to keep up with the previouse gen, as well as insane prices. What were they thinking?
5:28 intel tried their hand at graphics cards years ago, when they were on top. It was called Larrabee and it was terrible
Intel has tried graphics cards a couple times. The problem is that they never go full send. They just half ass it then turn it in to their next integrated graphics for laptops and servers.
The ARC cards are at least... well, not hugely impressive, but they do hold their own against similar-priced offerings from nvidia and AMD. Certainly better than the old Intel Shitsets. If Intel keep advancing their design they might well have a good product - but there is plenty of opportunity to screw it up yet.
@@vylbird8014 Having been through the product cycle a couple times I can reassure you that's how it always starts out. Then it's relegated to another integrated chipset. I suspect it'll be no different this time.
Yes, you say that it doesn't benefit us as users for AMD to be on top now, but when Intel was on top almost all the time, you just applauded and laughed, saying what a crap company AMD is, hypocrites. I'm very happy for AMD, now they just need to kick out Nvidia and everything will be fine.
yea they kick out competition and then theyll start to suck too
AMD couldn't beat Nvidia when there was no technological difference (series 10 and earlier). Now, AMD is far behind Nvidia and has to compete against DLSS and RTX even more mature. AMD will need a miracle to regain relevance (they recently lost even more market share).
Any monopoly is not good for consumers, regardless of who is on top. If we want reasonable prices and quality products, then all three companies need to be competing well.
@@luisgustavodossantosrodrig2005 The same thing was said about the competition between AMD and Intel, but now everything is different, isn’t it?
ROCM is still behind among other things. There's huge benefits to competition
Currently, Intel is being sanctioned by China for having a hardware backdoor in their products that can't be turned off except by our government.
I thought this was typical trade war stuff until I looked into the details.
Not only is it real, but it's been known globally since 2017.
Intel processors run a hardware subsystem hidden from the user that loads before their OS, and runs while the computer is off, and can access the computer while it's off.
This is marketed as a feature for enterprises and businesses to be able to completely take over their systems remotely and even make changes when they are off remotely.
In truth, it's on every Intel processor, can't truly be disabled, and when the user toggles it off in BIOS, it doesn't actually toggle it off.
Intel AMT/ME technology.
I learned this recently, and this should be global news. More so than news about Intel's latest processors performing 5 or 10% worse than the competition.
This makes me so glad I avoided Intel.
More reason to get AMD, still alarming...
@@guilhermedecarvalhofernand1629But everyone loves to shit amd and tries hide these
You do know that AMD has the exact same thing right?
@@AlpineTheHuskyyes we do
Wait until you discover that AMD's equivalent for quite literally the same thing as "Intel Management Engine" exist and is called "AMD Platform Security Processor".
Edit: Just the very first sentence about it:
"The AMD Platform Security Processor (PSP), officially known as AMD Secure Technology, is a trusted execution environment subsystem incorporated since about 2013 into AMD microprocessors."
2013. But Intel is problematic for having the same since 2017 (as it was a big secret, lmao), as you say. AMD cultists are seriously worse than Apple ones, that's for sure.
How do they fall from grace? By pulling an IBM/Nokia, by releasing the same product for 10 years, creating an ivory tower & falling behind.
Intel re-released the same 4 core CPU over and over for 10 years. AMD re-released the same 8 core CPU over and over for 7 years.
When ARM and Nvidia release a CPU, both AMD and Intel are going to be in deep trouble.
The system is breaking down because. they have got the mindset screwing over. your customer's employees infrastructure and innovation is a good business plan while giving record breaking bonuses to CEOS and CFOS and all the top end when America is built on innovation. We didn't make steel that was good enough. We made the best steel on the planet. faster, better than everyone else. That was innovation. Then we connected the east with the West and became a real country, not just a bunch of colonies. or towns and cities Innovation is what got our system going in the first place, which was 1900s with the. Model T on assembly line. The corporate mindset at the time was understanding innovation is a big part of the system. So Model T stopped being innovated with and then they started with the strong army, the population. kind of like the KGB. and later times. People keep thinking or saying that these CEOS keep doing things that must be a 5 brain move. But it's the easiest way for them to get their quarterly bonus. That's all. It's the easiest, quickest way to get the biggest, fattest quarterly bonus than market and spin it. to say yes, this is best. And these people believed their own spin. The only thing they do with their money is private jet, big house. Then sit here and talk about how amazing they are on Twitter or X, or whatever it's called now, which was something in the 90s which was extreme this and extreme that all that happened in the 90s. But whatever. Anyway, I am using text. I have a learning disability. I've been finally for disability for the past 8 years. I am still waiting. This system has collapsed multiple times in my working life. But instead of fixing it, they just bailed out the rich. with billions, hundreds of billions of dollars just given. to the rich. I understand there's going to be people who say I have no idea what I'm talking about Minimum wage has not gone up since 1997. You don't believe me based off of the information$7. 25 cents was established in 1997. Look at the tax records going back from 1997 till now the base pay has not increased since 1997 It's provable. they all lie they all cheat they all steal. and we're getting to a point where the system is collapsing the biggest corporations get bailouts but they still do the same thing because they get bailouts. So why would they change? our entire system is collapsing and they're so busy sitting here talking about how amazing they are and flying around a private jets. They don't realize they're health care is getting screwed too indirectly and directly. The people who produced the food aren't having kids anymore because they can't feed themselves. The people who produce the housing can't afford a house so they're not having kids because they're having troubled living with them by themselves without living with their family My generation was the first generation to live with. their family members. in the United States and them asking why isn't y'all out on your own now because it's been a voyage hasn't gone up since 1997 and I was saying that in 2006 I want you to understand 2006 I was living with my mother working 50 plus hours a week between two jobs. and having nothing to show for it. Why would anyone have kids in this world?
Republicans in the Senate are opposed to it, and some Democrats in States like West Virginia was opposed. Democrats need about 65 seats in the Senate to ever pass a Seattle style living wage Act.
0:43 what makes the new intel gen revolutionary
MUH POWER EFFICIENCY...
Or something
Idk
There's nothing though
The stagnation wasn't hard to imagine though. We're talking about comparing Haswell, the legendary i7 4770k against... Piledriver. The gaming performance between an FX-8370 and a 4770k is wildly different. That was a time when you could literally double your FPS going to Intel. When competition literally does not exist, and even i3 offerings often beat AMD's best for lower prices, it's hard to imagine a world where you aren't progressing forward. Intel had huge success in architecture with Nehalem and Westmere and then with Sandy Bridge and then Haswell, while AMD flopped with Bulldozer and Piledriver.
The other problem is that they rested on their laurels even when Ryzen was released. It was essentially a matter of "Yeah it's an improvement... _but we're is still faster in gaming._ " And that mentality persisted until Ryzen 5000 dropped and THEN Intel paid attention, realizing far too late that they were suddenly beaten across the board in every metric and couldn't remain competitive anymore. The V-cache stuff just added salt to the wound.
Intel is not the kind of company to die in this industry. They’re too big to just fall apart.
I’m buying intel stock with the full expectation that they either recover, or they get bought out or merge with another company.
What happens to stocks and stock value in latter case
I bought an Intel GPU just to be different lol
Us
is it any good??
I don't think we should be suprised at seemingly undefeatable companies getting defeated or in a progress of defeat in a world where Pan Am, Kodak and RCA had bitten the dust
As a 11900K user and XeSS enjoyer I do hope they will keep up - just for the sake of good old competition.
Oh, the i9 FX9590...
@@saricubra2867 I got it for a good price well knowing its limitations. That's a damn fine processor for what I use if for - maybe could consume less energy, that's it.
It's fascinating how people emotionally attach themselves to corporations and their products. Maybe it's because people aren't religious anymore. Either way, products can be better or worse - people can be stupid or smart.
14++SDG, ESG, DEI, Bridge,and💉🧬💀.....
hOW to dig your own grave?
- Throw your iconic name out the window,
- avoid the last gen stability issues
- make a new product that absolutely sucks than previous one, or, similar to previous ones.
- Bad quality service.
About "deserving" a downfall it's a mixed feeling :
Keep in mind that DIY market is very far from being the main source of income for Intel / AMD / Nvidia even more obvious for companies like Qualcomm, Samsung, Broadcom and such.
Gold moment for DIY was around the release of Ryzen and I'm really waiting for Intel to sink so that there won't be any competition in the x86 market letting AMD cooking a Skylake µarch 14nm++++++ moment only for people to complain again about the (deserved) stagnation. 😊
Très bonne journée,
Bien cordialement,
N/A
'How did this happen?'
Greed and marketing over innovation and investment, that's how. The 'Boeing sickness'.
Who could ever imagine that hiring people for anything else than their resume could lead a company to ruin? Looks like it's happening a lot lately. 😢
short story: investors
long story: capitalism.
I think this is analogous to AMD's Ryzen moment, primarily because the Linux benchmarks for Arrow Lake are actually quite good. Usually this is a sign that the chips just need a generation to fine tune and some bug fixing to shine on Windows. Wendell @ Level1Techs new Linux channel covered this. Also Phoronix covered this, I believe
Downfall of intel is a bad thing, no one will compete AMD so that means that same will happen when intel had the domination...
at least Intel has diverce and multucultural workforce, isn't it great?
If I had to be honest... Then yes, The Mobile CPUs of intel are actually fine. I was using i7 14700HX and I have no problems or any instability issues and When I talk about the Desktop ones. They said that the K lines are the ones that are affect.
They are all just fine when used within the specs. And the prices are very good at the moment.
@jarnovilen5259 Right, I've sawn that in one of the last videos too.
That focus on diversity is doing intel well.
TSMC is kicking their ass despite the company being like 99.9% Chinese
I had been an engineer at Intel for years before I moved on and worked under Brian/Bob/Pat. Each of them made their fair share of mistakes. People had lots of high hope with the latest CEO but he apparently failed to deliver either. In fact, I think Bob Swan is the safest bet. He doesn’t have the skills to make Intel to the top again but he probably can keep Intel afloat like any past giant like IBM or GM. But he was apparently not the good enough for the shareholders. After Pat took the helm, he made quite some rambunctious decisions which drained Intel’s cash flow. Don’t forget he also meddled with lots of politics which alienates customers, too.
Honestly, good. Because intel CPU's always gets the same "Spector" problem, they lose performance yearly due to patches. Worse of all they are all power hungry and always near melting point even on 240MM AIO. Also, the eco core and "performance" core stuff is the biggest waste of money. Why i'm paying for "ECO" cores on my high performance CPU that makes it even suck more power and more heat.
THing is, tons of business STILL go with intel machines.
And that's not gonna stop any time soon.
Problem with more tariffs. as no competition. So prices go up every time. I remember this happening when Obama said Heron creased the taxes all imported products used to be able to buy a tire for less than fifty bucks and it'd be a high rating tire of 120 mile an hour. Now you buy a tire for 100 hours. That's a 80 mile an hour tire. rating not good for the average person increasing the cost of living more with more tariffs Bad for business. Bad for the economy. Bad for the average consumer.
Intel not being able to roll out 10nm in the timeline they expected to is what I contribute their situation today to. They had bungled it up and then had to squeeze more out of 14nm to continue having something to bring to market.
I always hated Intel. Used their CPUs one time, total disappointment. They eat up too much power, heat issues, and overpriced.
AMD + Linux = FTW
This happened because still in this latest launch, they tried to lie to everyone saying this new generation use 50% less power, but they simply made their CPUs use more power from the 24 pin intead of the CPU connector.. Thinking people were so stupid that we would only measure the power usage from the CPU connector
tbh its sad. intel should be alive. because an amd monopoly is not going to be good. intel just did mistakes
I dont trust Intels CEO- u need new innovation not pushing fabrications solo , need better quality materials and creative ideas to make a quality chip.
There is a lot of competition M1 M2 M3 of apple. Today's latest zen5 CPUs are less efficient than M1. Apple SoC are at least 5yrs ahead of AMD
@@beerendrachaudhary3872 not really, they are completely different architectures
@@adamtajhassam9188 The problem is, intel focuses more on a complete and integrated package on a mature node (since they actually own the production) They actually have accelerators, coprocessors, software and tools that can work well with the hardware. AMD got a fast core, thats it.
AMD took an insane gamble that nearly landed them a huge share holder lawsuit, that luckily panned out ok. AMD has way more mobility since they are using the newest node possible because of them not producing anything themself.
@@warehousetechtips And still ahead with software translation...
Apple is going more so the Intel route since they actually put in dedicated hardware to accelerate stuff. AMD just does bare core silicon compute for most stuff
Intel in the 90s: "Let's inovate the PC world with amazing new features"
Intel in 2020s: "Does anti-competitive sh!t and still fails"
this is probably why ryzen 9000 series was so mid
I think it was because their io-die for zen 5 sucked so they pushed it back to zen 6 launch and re-design new io and carried zen 4's io to new generation. Zen 5 was supposed to work well with 8000mhz speeds. Zen 4 and Zen 5 ccds are bottlenecked by the io-die which is built on worse packaging technology.
Well AMD is now hitting the issues Intel is hitting. Except AMD doesnt has to own the manufacturing fabs. Intel was optimizing for mature nodes and hardware feature rich architectures. AMD goes for the newest node possible with "as simple as possible" CPUs
the 9800x3d is far from suck, it literally saved this line
@@nicane-9966 i wasnt talking about that, it was obviously going to be good
i meant the non-x3d 9000 lineup
Intel's global sales have not decreased, only its stock value has decreased
Intel is selling 2+4 core laptop i3s in such a volume AMD can't keep up with them but those chips aren't that pofitable.
They lost $16.6 billion dollars last quarter alone which is horrendous for any company but especially Intel who were an absolute money printing machine for decades. The stock price has collapsed for good reasons - if the financials were healthy and the outlook was good, that massive and long-lasting fall in their share price wouldn't have happened.
Nah bro, the interest for the new Intel CPUs was at an all-time high, because we all wanted Intel to come up with something good and properly compete with AMD, forcing each other to innovate, keep progressing and keeping prices low. We already see the effects of AMD keeping 17 of the top 20 spots for the best selling CPUs - their prices just suck, especially compared to just 2-3 years ago. I bought my 5800X3D just a month after its release in MAy 2022 for just €300. €300 for the best gaming CPU at that time!!! Now the 7800X3D is €450+ and the new 9800X3D already appears at some retailers for €550+ or almost double the price of its grandaddy. 2 times increase in price in less than 3 years is not "inflation"" or "manufacturing costs" and it's NOT a good step forward. I truly believe intel deserve every single bit of the sh**storm that came their way and will keep on coming, but they will have to get up eventually and get their sh*t together. Turning to TSMC wasn't a mistake and was the first step in the right direction. Removing defects from the production line of a CPU fab isn't as simple as dusting and vacuuming the place. They have to go deep, find the flaws in their manufatucing proccess and the causes, eliminate them and only then resume their own manufacturing. This will take at best MONTHS, but realistically more than a year. In the meantime someone has to produce CPUs, so they can sell something and get feedback to know which way to go. What intel need right now is completely new architecture and platform and they know it. This 1851 socket will probably have really short lifecycle, most lickly a simple refresh of the 285, 265 and 245 CPUs and will switch to a completely different layout. They need it, cause this platform simply doesn't have what's needed to complete with AMD.
what we need is a law that degrades everyone affiliated with marketing and sales to animals.
Every school and the government pretty much uses untel, so is not fading anywhere🤦🏻♂️
Been saying this for around a year now: BUY AMD STOCK
Also I'm not 100% positive if tariffs will be on every product made outside of the US.
Im pretty sure a bill has to get signed, and it won't take effect immediately. However if those tariffs do get put in place, it will incentivize companies to come back to america.
Though Intel's foundry isn't as good as TSMC's foundry, I seriously want Intel company to get better.
Even worse Taiwan is in danger by the CCP, so what happens if war breaks out there? Basically almost every tech company is kinda screwed because they heavily rely on TSMC's foundry to make these amazing world leading chips.
Should TSMC also be important to america as a fallback or backup plan? Honestly I have more questions than answers.
As we know having a monopoly gets rid of competition and potentially deals, theres is a such thing as too many choices, however there's mainly 2 companies making x86 cpus and 3 companies to make dedicated GPU's.
Adding more to a competition is fine, adding too many manufactures to make cpus can be hard to follow up on who makes the best products for the money.
TSMC probaly going to Japan or South Korea rather than the U.S if anything happened in Taiwan.
@Wkaelx Just speculations though, you might be right.
Intel is having a genuine Phenom FX moment.
Let's hope they can come back in a span of couple generations, though. Otherwise they'll just switch places, with AMD demanding $999+ for their top consumer chip.
I remember when Zen came out, so many people were saying stuff like 'Intelnis too big to fail' or 'Intel has a cpu in their drawer, which let Zen look like 10 year old tech'.
Look where we are now.
AMD was stuck on their phenom 2 non-sense for what felt like centuries and their first few generations of APU's was awful. Intel can bounce back.
I Remember the painful and sad attempt on dual core by AMD 😂 at the time it was terrible . Glade we are not in those times anymore
@@opfax163 LOL. AMD made first true dual core CPU. Intel just glued two 1 core CPUs.
My brother's 2017 laptop has amd APU and dGPU, the dGPU is bottlenecked by the CPU itself 😂
When compared with my 2013 laptop which had intel 4th gen and Nvidia kepler GT at the time, my laptop can still play 2016 games that my brother can't... And what's more shocking is that they're about the same price
Since then, my family has never looked back at AMD products.
Maybe i myself switched to AMD for my first ever PC especially when looking at the new 7600x3D, those things only have 65 watt TDP with insane like 7800x3D performance which is crazy...
Let's not forget the history of the Intel compiler shenanigans (See Wendel when he was with Tech Syndicate), and that they were paying nearly $1 billion per quarter to PC OEMs like Dell, to be an Intel exclusive shop. They were a very anti-competitve company that had a monopoly for over a decade. I shed no tears for them.
Sooo, Intel got the $8.9B grant to make chips in the US, yet uses TSMC in Taiwan to make the chips? Isn't that illegal?
Your understanding is off, the money was to build fabs here. They still make chips here in the US, just different parts & chips for different markets.
@@opdinkleberg7078 Only the Ultra ones are made with TSMC right? The other chips lines and older gens still are made in their own foundries?
My brother in Christ it takes 5 to 10 years to build a foundry
I'm glad you brought up his DEI and politics. Almost nobody will do that.
Intel relied too much on its brand name and its shady "wintell" agreement, until that corruption and hybris caught up to them in the end.
Intel just posted a 16 billion loss and are being beat out by AMD in datacenter sales. I want Intel to succeed. I just hope these fabs being built can implement their r&d and save the company.
Can they rebound?
You are young so I will forgive you for asking silly questions. This is not the first time Intel has been in this position, 24 years ago it had exactly the same kind of debacle trying to push P4 Prescott while AMD were advancing into multicore and 64 bit who introduced them to a large population FIRST. AMD had the faster, cheaper, better chips all round for a good two years or so until Intel released their Core architecture chips. They are a multi billion dollar entity with reasonable brains, they will resolve their issues in due course despite the present pain. I don't say this as an intel fan boy, barring a brief sting on an intel Q6600 I have been AMD CPU for 29 years. I say what I do because necessity is the mother of all innovation and invention.
As for the rest of the PC industry, it's a dumpster fire of profiteering that is harming the entire sector, from NVidia's outrageous GPU prices to motherboard manufacturers segmenting their product lines to ridiculous levels where a top end motherboard 10 years ago was around 300 dollars and practically any board over 150 would come with an LED diagnostic to aid in fault finding, now you have to spend a thousand dollars to get the same features. Ram is still relatively affordable at least.
Intel is about to rebound solely off of tariffs killing TSMC, allowing them to remain complacent and lazy.
I have a feeling RAM is about to blow up in price by at least 40-50%.