Did anyone else notice a parallel between Weyoun-7 rationalising that it's OK to send a ship to blow up Odo because "he doesn't think of himself as a Founder" etc. and Winn Adami, seeking power, rationalising "the Prophets didn't help Bajor during the Occupation, so it's OK for me to betray them?" Or am I reading too much into that?
Maybe it’s because the writers knew that people who are capable of twisting and betraying *their own* most firmly-held beliefs are the most morally repugnant people of all. Seeing someone be a douchebag is one thing, but seeing someone be a douchebag *against their own moral code which they’re usually preaching obnoxiously to anyone in earshot*? That’s just completely despicable. Come to think of it, Dukat shares some of those qualities too. They’re all awful hypocrites! Damn, DS9 is so good.
That scene bothered a little, not a lot because the established 'bad brains' are a thing in clones. Possibly they sour more and more as they go down the chain, or something like that? The reason it annoyed me was - boarding actions still exist, they could have tractored and captured. Drop their shields with low level shots and make another 'teleporter accident' happen.... So many other options then betraying the one element that shouldn't even be possible to betray!
How quickly she resorts to "kill them all, I don't want to deal with it!", it's just...she's so above it all, and she knows it. Every moment she has to spend among the solids is a moment she doesn't spend in the great link, and she bears it with equanimity and grace...and a callous indifference to the suffering and deaths of others. Truly chilling.
The funny thing was she was the reason the dominion failed as soon as she put more control over the planning and everything. Weyoun was an extremely competent diplomat and strategist who was winning the war in spite of the lack of reinforcements from the wormhole. The female changling is so blatantly evil she is incompetent
“Cardassian survivors? There were no Cardassian survivors. They’re dead, you’re dead, Cardassia… is dead. Your people were doomed the moment they attacked us. I believe this answers your question.”
One of the underrated moments of Weyoun's character is when he interacts with Jake Sisko in "A Time to Stand". Weyoun is courteous, but firm, almost pitying Jake for his naïveté about "Freedom of the Press". He isn't spiteful or cold. He pretty much gaslights Jake into apologizing to him. It's a masterful bit of Vorta diplomacy that I think only Jeffrey Combs could pull off.
This is one of my all time favorite Weyoun moments and I thought for sure Steve would bring it up. I also enjoy that his Jem'Hadar guards go immediately into kill mode by Jake's intrusion and Weyoun so casually dismisses any action like it happens all the time
Weyoun literally asks for Odos blessing while dying in his arms. Even after basically being cast off by the Dominion, he is still loyal to the founders.
I liked that he asked Odo to do(or be present) for his debreafing, to make it much easier for him to basically betray the dominion. It fit so much. without Odo, he would revert to his manipulating(maybe less then others) but half truth and what not, with Odo, he would feel compelled to tell all as it is.
The face he makes at his death, which Odo reminisces about later, is really so fantastically acted by Combes, he looks so happy to be blessed and peaceful and content. Its all the best sort of tragedy, you completely feel for this Weyoun.
One scene I kind of liked was that one time Weyoun thought Jake and Nog were up to some kind of plot against him. He brings them in to question them, Jake tells the truth but Weyoun doesn't believe it. So then Jake tells him an over the top lie of the sort that wouldn't be too far out of place in an actual episode. "I believe you," Weyoun said. "That is, your first story." And he returns the card, sends the boys off. It shows he's a villain, but a smart one.
It's a good illustration of Weyoun's unique characteristics as a villain. He truly isn't in this for his ego. Insult the Founders, and he'll burn your world to ash in his personal fury. (Well, he'll want to.) But he truly has no ambition of his own other than to please the Founders. And to live; he really does like being alive, and he's not above the pleasures of life. But those _are_ secondary to pleasing the Founders. So, when Jake and Nog are proven to be doing nothing against him or the Founders or the Dominion, he holds no grudge. Also, I think, to some extent, Weyoun genuinely liked Jake.
and the fact that Vorta are designed to be brilliant at spotting lies for diplomacy., so, of course he tells the difference instantly when Jake tells truth then tries a lie instead.
Weyoun: "All this talk of gods strikes me as superstitious nonsense." Damar: "You believe the Founders are gods, don't you?" Weyoun: "That's different." Damar: "Ha! In what way?" Weyoun: "The Founders *are* gods." Damar: "..........."
Not to be a founder apologist but to the vorta the founders are for all intents and purposes gods are they not? They took a monkey equivalent out of the trees and engineered them into what we see in the series. Their lives, civilization, and social order is something literally given to them by the founders. Or do god have to fit the monotheistic traditional framing as omnipotent or omniscient beings which created the entire universe?
@@TheJamiesg As Sisko puts it, "You only worship them because that's what they made you to do" "Of course they did - that's what Gods DO!" (He does have a point)
@@TheJamiesg Interesting question. I don't think they do, but that conversation is lols. Weyoun points out that the Bajoran gods are nothing more than superstition and immediately comes back to Damar's skepticism by doubling down on his own obstinacy.
Another reason Weyoun is such a stand out villain is we see little reflections of the Dominion and the tyranny of the founders through him, even the tyranny over their own subjects. The scene where he regards Ze'al's art and tries to, through sheer force of will, gain an understanding of aesthetics is actually a little tragic. It is a window into how unless something servers the founders, they considered it not only unimportant but a distraction, and will use a combination of indoctrination and genetic tampering to prevent their followers from accessing it. The Jem'hadar and Vorta are terrible tools of the fascist Changelings, but they are tools nonetheless, with little agency in what they ever could have done. They are victims of the founders as well, who have been forged into oppressors. Like when Sisko asked Remata'klan "Do you really want to give up your life for the 'order of things'?" "It is not my life to give up, Captain - and it never was."
Great comment. Sisko develops respect for the Jem’Hardar because despite their entire being genetically manipulated for the Founders they have a sense of honor, something Weyoun does not have at all.
There was one line from that scene that I always felt added real depth to Weyoun's character: "Gods don't make mistakes... though, I think it would be nice to be able to carry a tune."
One of the more interesting scenes of DS9 is when we find out that Weyoun (and other Vorta) can't appreciate art. I think that's a good metaphor about how slavish devotion to authority destroys your individuality and creativity.
I always felt like the Vorta were genetically modified to not have any interest in material possessions and the like. You can't bribe, sway, distract, or tempt the Vorta with things like money or art or small Ferengi moons. That makes them both devoted as you mentioned and completely, utterly loyal. It's both ingenious and terrifying.
@@laurakb196 The Vorta really just exist to serve the Founders, don't they? Not to feel pleasure, not to build communities or raise the next generation, not to distinguish themselves in the eyes of their fellows...they just exist to serve their masters. That's kinda horrifying.
But most, if not all, art in human history was created by servitors to authority figures like kings, emperors and popes, and todays oligarchs. All religious art is by definition created by “slavish” devotees to gods, God and buddhas.
@@nomanor7987 really just a small part of art has been for authorities though, hasn't it? People have made a thousand doodles and daisy chains and collages for themselves for every painting of whichever holy figure or king. Of all the paintings that even survived most are not religious or of kings or generals, galleries in every city are full of them, and that's after the states and monarchies and religions had the means to preserve most of theirs, while everyday people had to let most of the art ever created go to rot. And very nearly all religious and authoritarian art is pretty terrible, it may be competent, but it's more propaganda than art! The communist brutalist stuff may be an exception, horrifying propaganda again, but it's quite creative. There's a LOT more music that's not religious or in service to authority.... Statues, though. I think authority does have an edge in statue numbers. Prob coz they're kinda expensive....
Damar is, hands down, the funniest Cardassian. He cracks three pretty good lines in quick succession when the new Weyoun enters the room. (I shall count them: "well hellloooooo", "oh you misjudge me, I miss him deeply" and "maybe you should talk to Worf again".)
The best part of that line is the delivery. Damar laughs as he says it. Besides being a very funny joke, it further drives home the hatred you mentioned; the idea of Weyoun dying again fills Damar with glee.
And in the Resistance's first strike against the Dominion, they take out a seemingly random cloning facility that *just so happens* to be the place where the data/material needed to make Weyoun clones is stored. When Weyoun says "I'm the last of the Weyouns", you can see the horror on his face...along with the realization that Dumar hates him enough to doom him to never be cloned again. He REALLY hates Weyoun! 😆
When Weyoun drinks the poisoned Kanar in the episode Ties of blood and water and says “oh that really is quite toxic isn’t it”, the look on Gul Dukat’s face just cracked me up and is priceless. Weyoun then says “Vorta are immune to most poison’s”.
That was a great scene and I'm glad someone had mentioned it. And it's not just an entertaining quippy moment. Weyoun expertly uses his "party trick" to deescalate the confrontation that seems to be on the verge of boiling over between Sisko and Dukat.
Honestly, I think Weyoun Six is more consistent with the other Weyouns, than Weyoun Seven. Treachery, Faith and the Great River is one of my favorite episodes of DS9 (and of all ST), I saw it countless times, and I came to the realisation that W6 is a perfectly good clone, and W7 is the faulty one. After his activation, W6 learns about the diseas of the Great Link. He realize that all changeling will die expect Odo. If he wanna serve his gods in the long run, he has to serve Odo. And if he wanna serve Odo, he has to except Odo's viewpoint about the war, the Dominion, the universe and everything. So he does. But he is still that manipulative, two-tongued Weyoun we all love. I think all other Weyoun could do the same thing in his place. (Well, maybe not Weyoun Four, but he was really only a proto-Weyoun, as a character). On the other hand, W7 does something in the episode, what no other Weyoun would do: he try to get Odo murdered, and than he lying about it to the Female Founder. I think he is the Weyoun, who exceeds the literal interpretation of "serving the Dominion". W6 disobeying the Founders, but he obeying Odo; he chosses the god who will live over the gods who will die. Yes, at the and he disobeying Odo too, but only to save him from death. But W7 disobeying the Founders AND disobeying Odo. He willing to sacrifice Odo for the good of the Dominion - despite the clear intent of the real rulers of the Dominion. And when he lieing to the Founder, he does it to save himself only - not her, or the Founders, or the Dominion. This is why I think W7 was a faulty clone, and this is why I can genuinely like Weyoun Five and Eight (and off course Six), but I can't like Seven. They are bad guys, but they competly and perfectly loyal to their gods, and they sincerely believes that what they do is good (or at least necessary), because their gods told them so. They are predetermined to think that way; from this viewpoint, they are one of the Dominion's victims. But not W7: he somehow can put his own interest before the honesty with a Founder. And when you lost that complet loyalty, there is nothing left, just that dispicable, "very killable" bad guy.
I agree on your point about Weyoun 7. Especially his shift in the interaction with Damar after the alliance with the Breen. He is openly cruel towards him and does a good job of alienate him, something the pervious Weyouns would have been cautious of. On the other hand its quite hillarious how he seems to enjoy every time the Breen says anything and for all we know they could have just said "I hate your eyes!"
definitely agreed. it seems like weyoun 6 was actually uniquely gifted in that he was able to consider things in the long term rather than just the short term. with odo and the survivial and the founders of course, but also more broadly. war may be good for short term gains of the people in power but is terrible for the long term health of a society, and weyoun 6 realized this.
Makes sense to me that 7 needed to be different. The founders realized that the genetic recipe wouldn't work with the knowledge that they were dying. All Wayuon, if they stuck with their original recipe, would put Odo above the rest of the founders. So, they had to tweak the recipe. They just didn't get it right the first time.
If it helps any I think your version of the Female Changelings line is much better, as while "That was the last clone of Weyoun" gives the original some status of importance, "That was my last Weyoun" would have really nailed in how the thrall races of the Founders were seen as mere tools rather than actual people that ever really mattered.
He was the quietest voice, yet he commanded the biggest stick. I mean the fact that the Female Founder trusted him implicitly meant he had the whole Dominion military at his beck-and-call.
One of the moments that really captures Weyoun's two-faced villainy is when he confronts Sisko about deploying a minefield at the entrance to the wormhole. He starts with threats and indignance, trying to intimidate Sisko. But when he realizes that Sisko isn't going to back down, he immediately changes tack, spinning a yarn about how the Dominion is "peaceful" and just trying to help Cardassia rebuild. Sisko plays along in the moment and of course, doesn't buy anything Weyoun says, but it's a great little moment that shows exactly how Weyoun operates.
Weyoun is a great villain because he knows exactly what his power is and because he doesn’t want more he can wield it like a knife. He never makes threats he can’t follow up. There’s no bluster of bluffing. And there never feels like there is any malice in his actions.
This is what I love too! The only time you really see him mean is with Damar whom he just can't stand. He isn't malicious. If the Founders said 'okay call off the war we love solids now' he'd throw himself behind that completely. He's amoral in the truest sense-- incapable of being any other way. The Vorta in general are so tragic to me and the Founders treat them like disposable tools.
They don't even cast him anymore he just shows up on set and Make-up gets to work. He's so good no one notices the random character who doesn't have any lines in the script.
Jeffrey Combs is an amazing actor, he usually plays such despicable characters but he also plays my favorite character in ST Enterprise as Commander Shran, his rivalry with archer is hilarious.
I love how he delivers the phrase "pink skin", and how it changes throughout the series. At first there's condescension, then there's grudging respect, or sometimes annoyance...and then there's a sort of camaraderie, like it's turned into an affectionate barb, only deployed as a sign of admiration and support. It's funny, how an actor's delivery can mark the progress of another, different actor's character's story arc.
Weyoun, "the lickiest bootlicker who ever licked a boot." Well said, my friend. He is one of my favorite characters in all of Star Trek, second only to Garak. Despite all of this, one of my favorite things about him was the multitude of ways he dies, Vaporized by his Jem-Hadar First with a Federation Phaser Rifle, a "totally random" transporter "accident" that conveniently missed Damar, Suicide implant, Worf, and Garak. Such an honor. Weyoun 5 plays Dabo and drinks poison, Weyoun 6 ate pizza with chopsticks, and Weyoun 7... Death by Worf! Yes he is the best villain DS9 has to offer. You say two-faced, I say dynamically complicated, either way Jeffrey Combs brought him to life and just made it work! Looking forward to Weyoun 9, lol.
"What's in this, cinnamon?" Uh oh... I've always been really fascinated by the Jem'Hadar for lots of reasons. They're slaves that have been so thoroughly subjugated that they make their bondage, not only a matter of honour, but a full blown religion. They have *ONE* chance to seize freedom (To The Death) and they fail. It takes more than a year (Rocks And Shoals) for Sisko to start to see them as another victim of the Dominon, and even a potential ally.
Weyoun is the GOAT. The smarm. The absolute devotion to the Goo Nazis. The barely-concealed contempt for everyone *but* Goo Nazis. Every Weyoun episode - every line - is to be treasured.
@@silentotto5099 , If that is the extent of your real-world knowledge, that so many other people who fit the model better do not come to mind, shows why I hold such regrets for today's educational systems.... Weyoun was at least competent.
@@silentotto5099 except Weyoun is *fictional* which means it’s okay to appreciate these qualities, because they’re also *fictional* - as are Goo Nazis and all the people they hurt and what’s your point anyway
his recent voice role in Lower Decks is a thing of beauty. I hope Strange New Worlds can at least get him a guest part of some sort. He's just too much of a treasure to not use at least once more.
I was so excited to see him in an episode of Criminal Minds as the bad guy, but in that episode the case was the b story line. The episode was focused on Garcia and her past. Such a waste of his talent
Don't forget about his role as The Question in the old Justice League cartoons. As far as I'm concerned, he's in the top 20 voice actors of the last 30 years
The scene with Odo asking Weyoun to reinstate Bajoran Security is even more perfect, because after he gives in to the request Weyoun has one of his own, that Odo join the meetings to run DS9. This brings Odo into the muddy waters of politics, where Weyoun can manipulate even the Founder he claims to worship.
I choked on my juice with laughter when you said, "He's just so killable". Because that is so very true, and the way you said it is hilarious. No wonder they're already on #5 and by the end of the series, they run out of Weyouns lmao.
I also love the additional "Fuck you" delivered by Dumar who, in the first coordinated strike of the Cardassian Resistance against the Dominion, strikes a cloning facility that contains the data/material necessary to clone Weyoun specifically. The look on Weyoun's face when he says "I'm the last of the Weyouns" is priceless, a look I'm sure Dumar wishes he'd been able to see (along with Weyoun's death, but he died before Weyoun), but nonetheless probably took great pleasure in. ...anyway, care for a cup of cinnamon tea? I'm thirsty all of a sudden...
A great ST villain can often be seen as an anti-Kirk, an anti-Picard, etc. Weyoun is, in many regards, an anti-Sisko. Of course, I'm writing this 1/10 of the way through the video, Steve might be about to spend the next 30 minutes saying this...
One of my favorite Weyoun lines is when he’s looking at a painting that Dukat’s daughter made (if I remember correctly) and asks him if it would be more aesthetically pleasing in blue.
I think people defend Dukat because he's a compelling villain. That, and all those "villains who had a point" clickbait articles that act as if a villain having a positive/relatable/laudable aspect makes them the hero.
I firmly believe that "Dukat did nothing wrong" posters exist ironically to annoy Steve and people who share his proclivities. Also acting is fun and it's fun to roleplay a horrendous person.
@@TheAnimeAlliance right, the writer has to be able to get what is in their head on paper well enough so others can perform as close to their vision as possible. But then the actor reads it from a different point of vie and add their own flavor, and then the directors and others give their input as well. It really is a blending to get what we eventually see on screen. With something like Star Trek, the writers look at the performance to influence what they write, Weyoun and Garak being the perfect examples. They were both supposed to be one off characters but they were so good they just HAD to come back
I agree, they're most likely ironic comments. In the remote chance they are serious, I see it as proof of how good both the writers and actors were in bringing to life these characters.
I feel Steve does a dirty to middle managers here. Granted, they're rare, but the great middle managers are something to behold. Or rather, you hardly notice them because they shield the underlings from upper management's yearning for relevance and just gets everyone to get on with things.
Thanks for this 👆. As a former middle manager-turned-Director it is indeed a tough task to protect your crew against corporate forces while still encouraging productivity. In my current role it is really hard to find these kinds of personalities, and we now refer to them as Facilitators or Project Leaders. Privately, I refer to them as the air traffic controllers of our industry.
Kinda reminds me of what Terry Pratchett says about Sergeants in Monstrous Regiment. They're in a good position to mediate and filter, and can have a lot of power for the good if they play it right.
Nothing more dangerous to productivity and morale than a member of upper management who consciously or subconsciously knows their position is redundant or irrelevant, and throws their weight around and makes noise in the desperate pursuit of trying to make themselves seem relevant and/or useful because their afraid their bosses higher up the chain will realize they're not worth the salary.
The fact that Weyoun is a killable lickspittle makes him more dangerous, because his enemies will underestimate him and assume that he's just a sniveling toady. Then they find themselves outmatched when he makes a bad deal with them or stabs them in the back. He's a brilliant villain; better than Dukat.
One of my favorite lines of dialogue in the whole series comes from Weyoun 6. Odo accuses him of "just being paranoid" in his assertions that Dominion leadership wants him dead, and he says, "Of course I'm being paranoid! Everyone's trying to kill me!"
If they had added Jeffery Combs' Andorian to the regular cast as a part of the crew somehow, I don't think Enterprise would have been canceled when it was. I know there were plans in future seasons but if they had moved that up it would have helped immensely.
The thing I like about Weyoun, is how much he clearly wants to better himself. He doesn't understand art, but he WANTS to understand it. He can't really taste new foods, but he still wants to experience them, going through the runabout's entire stock of dishes so he can at least learn their textures. They're small things, but they're there- and they're a bit tragic. It's a shame, that despite wanting to expand his boundaries, he's incapable of doing so due to the limitations the Founders put on him, and he completely refuses to recognize that an injustice was done to him. I also like to think that, for Weyoun 6... it's less that he found the violence and the war distasteful.... but more that he learned the Founders are dying. If they're dying, then that means the only one of his gods left, would be Odo. Which means, he HAS to serve Odo, in order for him to feel like he has a use. So he doesn't care about the war, actually, he's just saying what he knows Odo wants to hear. Or, he started from 'I need to do what Odo wants' and THEN decided the war was unjust. Which is why the changelings changed 2 things for Weyoun 7; first, they lowered his slavish devotion to Odo, which is why he's willing to kill him, using the justification that Odo doesn't technically consider himself a founder- and second, keeping him FIRMLY in the dark about the sickness that the Founders are suffering.
I’ve always taken exception with the term “female changeling.” It reminds me of “lady doctor.” As if we know they’re all supposed to be guys, so when there’s a girl one, that’s how we’ll identify her. She’s actually the leader of the changelings, but we’ll just call her “female.”
What were they supposed to do? She didn't give them her name, if she even had one; she was technically just part of a collective consciousness which had separated from the whole ("the ocean becomes the drop"). She never identified herself as the leader of the Changelings, she was just representing the Great Link during their efforts in the Alpha Quadrant. The only thing which distinguished her was the fact that she's the only Changeling we see who assumes a female identity. It sets her apart.
I just thought it was a way of identifying her from the other changelings we’ve seen. I’ve never heard a name given for her so idk what else people would call her, I don’t think it’s as deep as you make it out to be
Weyoun is one of the best villians of all star trek and combs best role, at least for me. Unlike Dukat he does not enjoy beeing cruel, he just want to do his job as best as he can. And like Steve said he did everything with a smile. If he is not flat out ordered to force his will (more the will of the founders) on others he allways try to do diplomacy.
Who could forget the real villain of DS9, the person who threw a Klingon Dictionary at a random writer and asked them to translate all the Klingon lines.
I always found Weyoun to be such a lovable villain, one who makes you think there's something truly good and sincere deep down fighting to get out from under his genetically engineered traits, even if it wasn't true. He wanted to understand art, he loved a party, he was curious about everything and seemed to genuinely enjoy people. There seemed to be something actually innocent and confused about him at times. (too much messing with his genetics I guess). Weyoun 6 was a good guy. All the Weyouns seemed to truly love (as well as defer to) the founders, But Dukat...I hated him. He did everything for his own personal glory. Jeffrey Combs portrayal of Weyoun was a thing of beauty, deft and artful, and a delight to watch and listen to.
I love that the Jem'hadar ships don't have front monitors only the top ranking people can see what's going on because loyalty is so important. Its a nice piece of story telling and it probably saved on the budget too.
Back when my mother was still with me, she always shuddered whenever she saw Jeffrey Combs in any tole, because she had found Weyoun so much of a creep - he did such a great job of selling that character that Mum's feelings about Weyoun carried over to other shows and films!
"James Kirk was a great man, he went on to captain the Enterprise... But that was another life, a life I will deprive you of... Like i did you're father... YES JT... it was ME all along... My ship... it can hop through time... bet you hadn't figured THAT little nugget of information out yet had you... For you its been decades... but for me... its been roughly the length of like... i don't know... If this conflict was a movie... I Feel like they would open with that shot but then in the closing moments of the third act probably get me to do a callback just in case people had forgotten how the film ... JT... You've gone limp... Why are you rolling you're eyes at me? This is just like the Romulan mining facilities in house therapist once used to say... actually... funny story.. this ship... was a state of the art mining ship for its time... Too bad your times running out... just like your father did... Okay so technically he died and didn't walk out... but you're still the child of a single mother and i guess it kind of...well there IS a through line to my thoughts on that last one... Why do my hands hurt"?
Jeffery Combs did such a great job on DS9 and Enterprise. Every character he played was unique and layered, I really hope he gets a guest role in Strange New Worlds (maybe a really old Admiral Shran).
When Worf twists Weyoun's head to break his neck, and then the next clone shows up and Damar starts laughing: "Maybe you should talk to Worf again." Dude. That is one of the funniest moments in all of Star Trek to me.
And in the case of why Dukat is a villain the fact he's a fascist. No amount of admirable qualities could compensate for that, even if he lacked all the things you mentioned some Trek villains having.
My husband and I used to cackle with glee and bounce up and down in our seats when Weyoun first appeared in an episode. He is definitely one of the greatest Star Trek characters of all time. Bonus: they did not overuse him.
To me one of the funniest moments in all of Star Trek was when Weyoun 8 is talking to Demar after Worf killed Weyoun 7 and Demar says something like "why dont you ask Worf?" Weyoun 8 just shoots him a LOOK! My last watching i had to pause to finish laughing.
Weyoun did exhibit a brief sense or morality when the female changeling ordered the Cardassians to be exterminated. The tone used in "That will take some time" was seemingly like "Come on Founder there are more important things to be doing."
I always imagined Weyoun, Dukat, and Damar as the mad scientists from Mystery Science Theater 3000. Every episode in the last three seasons or so cuts back to them + the changeling commenting on the episode at hand every other commercial break. Weyoun and Damar were especially humorous.
I wanna say thank you Steve, I absolutely love your Star Trek videos. I work for the nhs in the uk, your in-depth reviews got me though a lot of hard times with the covids. Thank you again and I still wanna say “shut up wesley”
I think that line you were recalling by the Female Changeling about Weyoun is the following: "My loyal Weyoun. The only solid I have ever trusted." (episode: "What You Leave Behind")
Weyoun is absolutely not one to be underestimated. The whole crux of the augment's plan to save the Federation was to surrender to the Dominion because they predicted a rebellion would start on Earth that would lead to an even stronger Federation forming in the aftermath. Couple of episodes later, Dukat and Weyoun are casually chatting over their plans for after defeating the Federation and Weyoun nonchalantly states that they'll have to destroy Earth just to make sure no rebellions come out of there. The show doesn't draw your attention to it, but it just shows how Weyoun thinks long term and outsmarts the genetically superior humans. Of course Vorta are genetically engineered themselves, so there's a nice symmetry even there.
One bit about Weyoun 5's slavish eagerness to please Odo I loved is his immediate agreement to Odo's terms to restore Bajoran security to DS9 and offering him anythimg he wants....then as Odo turns away, Weyoun pipes up and makes a request of *Odo*. "Since I did that for you and all..." Even in the face of a man he considers a god, Weyoun still has an agenda and will slimily worm it into conversation.
A good example of Weyoun's two-face is in his first appearance, he mostly appears rather concerned about the rogue Jem'Hadar and deceitfully courteous when poking and prodding Sisko. Then he's like "The Dominion will survive long after the Federation has crumbled into dust" when Sisko insults the Dominion, and then brushes it off with a courteous quip. Simultaneously, he's concerned, courteous, and intimidating in that one scene.
Jeffery Combes is a great actor. His portrayal of Weyoun makes him so unlikable, but so lovable at the same time. I have to agree with you Steve, that Deep Space 9 was the best Star Trek series ever. The way the main characters develop as the series progressed really made it stand out, especially when compared to Voyager.
While your running gag about Damar trying to poison Weyoum is funny it was missing something. A reaction by Weyoum where he just bluntly says, "you know I am immune to poison right?"
Because of that reason it wasnt funny to me at all. Especially after he himself earlier in the video reminded everyone that Weyoun is immune to poison.
As a German, I always thought that in reality are many more people like him. In a war, in a military organisation. Not for the better, but there can be only a few Kahn like villans. A lot of evil comes probably through middle managers not unlike him.
When I was younger, I didn’t start watching DS9 on a weekly basis until I was in middle school and by then the Dominion War had ready pretty much started. So I always viewed Weyoun as THE villain of DS9 more than Dukat.
Weyoun, the best villain on DS9. Brunt, perhaps the most hated Ferengi on the same show. Shran, the best recurring character on Enterprise. All played by Jeffrey Combs. . . Sure just a coincidence. Right?
I still think Weyoun 7 was the defective one, not Weyoun 6. Weyoun 6 was willing to do whatever was necessary to protect the founders, even if they disagreed with him. Weyoun 7 was willing to kill a founder in order to carry out his orders and save his own neck despite knowing the other founders would never agree to that.
Steve, I haven't yet watched DS9's "Treachery, Faith And The Great River". Now I feel I have no choice but to watch it, since your rundown of the episode is just abso-f**k!ng-lutely FANTASTIC !!! Thanx for the tip.😉
I don't always agree with your assessments, but this one about Weyoun was spot on. He was one of, if not THE best villain in DS9. He was ambitious, relentless, and loyal to all the wrong people. And yet, all that ambition and relentlessness was never for himself, making him very frightening. I think he feared failing his gods far more than he feared death.
Idk about y'all, but I'm CONVINCED that the jem'hadar rebellion was totally staged in order to get to Odo. I know, I know, I know, this wouldn't be considered canon if the writer's didn't intend it in the first place, BUT LISTEN-- The jem'hadar have proved time and time again that they're 10000% loyal to the Founders, to the point where they'd off themselves if they failed to protect one. Even the jem'hadar child who was without his people's guidance, was predisposed to this loyalty without even fully understanding it. Anyone could argue with "Hippocratic Oath" but I would quote from the episode: Julian: "... And by controlling the supply of this drug, the Founders maintain control over you." Goran'Agar: "*The Vorta!* They are the ones who control the drug... They are the ones we came here to escape." Like Weyoun 6, they are never disloyal to the Founders. The only possible exception being Goran'Agar because he could naturally produce his own enzyme, and judging by his change in attitude, it was likely different from the product in some way. I wouldn't be surprised if Ketracel White was originally an enzyme the jem'hadar naturally produced in their body before the Founders genetically modified them. And it appears they found a drug similar to it that can be easily produced, but it also changed their behavior. It makes them prone to violence AND enjoy it. But how could that be possible? Well look at the Cardassian drug on the derelict space station that made Garak a bloodthirsty monster. If that's possible, I don't see how KW couldn't make jem'hadar seem like murder machines. So back to "To The Death." Somehow I doubt the Dominion didn't catch wind of those defected jem'hadar that Julian tried to help. They infiltrated the Federation and Starfleet, so a report like that wouldn't go under the radar. They were fully aware of the events happening on Earth when a covert coup was underway. So now Starfleet has it in their heads that *some* jem'hadar *want* to leave the Dominion--but not for the reasons everyone assumes. Isn't it a bit strange how easy it was for a rag-tag team of Starfleet officers and a handful jem'hadar to infiltrate *and* successfully destroy such a valuable alien device? And isn't it a bit *unusual* how so many jem'hadar managed to congregate on this planet without the Dominion sending an entire fleet to bombard the surface from orbit? Sure, they'd have to go inside the Iconian building to finish off the rest, but they'd be too busy enjoying a good fight to care about the "why." And even if they ask, the vorta could always lie and say those men don't believe in the Founders existence and have chosen to rebel--good enough reason to eradicate a rebel group. But what if those jem'hadar see the gateway and start another rebellion? Highly unlikely. Again, it's suspicious that all those jem'hadar just happened to be assigned to the same planet and all just happened to want the same thing. Not to mention, if those jem'hadar were *really* looking for support for this rebellion, they would've tried reasoning with *any* jem'hadar to join them to bolster their numbers. A group like that wouldn't be "join or die," more like "hey wanna kill indiscriminately without these stupid vorta calling the shots? Join us! No? Ok die then." Also also, wasn't Omet'iklan's words to Odo weirdly... poetic? "It is not for us to accuse a god of betraying heaven. The gods themselves will sit in judgement over you." Sounds like something a vorta would say to a jem'hadar questioning the reason for allowing a "traitor" to return home after what he did. Why Weyoun didn't know that they knew? It's possible the Founders were purposefully creating tension between the two species to show them they *can* trust each other and have no need to question each other's loyalty to the Founders. Sure Weyoun 4 was pissy that Omet'iklan and his men knew about the gateway, but he still allowed mixed teams and brought success to the mission by trusting his soldiers. He could've gone behind Omet'iklan's back and try to convince Sisko that they're going to rebel and need to be terminated, but he didn't. After that, Weyoun 5 and 6 showed a sort of respect for his comrades. He treated the KW ritual like a communal session at a church, and he felt remorse killing his own soldiers even if it meant protecting Odo--A FOUNDER (and the future leader of the Dominion if his people had succumbed to the disease). That mission *CHANGED* Weyoun and made him a better Overseer, and thus an even better villain. But I digress. Weyoun's true mission was to persuade or force Odo home, because isn't it oddly convenient that he had a virus on hand (pun intended) that only The Great Link could cure and he touched Odo after he refused to go home (not in view of the camera cuz of the super closeup). And nevermind what they might've done if Odo hadn't been on that ship, what about the fact that a *single transport ship supposedly got the upperhand of a combat ready ship?* Sounds a bit silly when you consider that team was assigned to hunt down those "rebels." Sure, maybe that transport ship had some teeth, but I doubt it would be enough to take down a combat ship without suffering enough damage to potentially undermine their goals. Personally, I'm both sad and thankful the studio cut a huge chunk of the fight scenes in that episode. I would've loved to see Dax beat down on a ton of jem'hadar like the badass that she is, but it was "too violent" for TV and in-universe it would seem suspicious if the whole mission was too easy. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Omet'iklan was ordered to kill Weyoun once the mission was complete. 1) wouldn't want Starfleet capturing him; 2) it's quicker to debrief the clone than waiting for him to fly all the way back; 3) he has a frekkin changeling-killing virus on him, I doubt anyone would want that accidentally spreading around; and 4) while unrelated to the mission, I wouldn't doubt it was satisfying vaporizing his "boss" lmfao I'm a nerd. Weyoun is my favorite and I love it when pieces of a story just works out with the rest of it so perfectly.
Dukat did nothing wrong. Humans showed up and fired on his ship without proper provocation. Typical. The Earth-Membari war wasn't his f- oh right. The other one. Uh. I've found the "X did nothing wrong" meme is usually not serious. How anyone could seriously say Feanor did nothing wrong baffles me. Oh, well, Magnus for 40K too I guess, though I really blame daddy problems for that. Can't say that I'm shocked Star Trek has its own "nothing wrong" memes. Good stuff.
I disagree with Steve's read of Weyoun 6 vs the rest. In "Treachery, Faith, and the Great River," BOTH of the Weyouns consciously defy their gods - 6 by defecting, and 7 by ordering Odo's death. They disagree with each other on strategy, not values. Because deep down, both of them, and ALL the Weyouns, understand that the Founders are not competent to run the universe. And part of a Vorta's job - the part that they all know about but just agree not to talk about - is to babysit the Founders and keep them from hurting themselves. You see a bit of this in the opening arc of Season 6, when Weyoun in an unguarded moment congratulates the Founder for neutralizing Odo, only to be rudely disappointed by the Founders' inability to put the greater good over their own personal feelings. Or again in the Season 6 opening arc, in that "Weyoun struggles with art" scene where Weyoun is obviously trying to let Kira know that he understands that the Founders are flawed, even though he has to pretend not to at all times. What Weyoun REALLY, *truly* believes in, more than anything else, is *the Dominion* as a State. The Dominion will bring peace and order to the galaxy, and it is founded upon the worship of the Founders as infallible gods, so Weyoun will preach that good word even as he sits with the terrible, hidden knowledge that the Founders don't actually care about the Dominion at all.
Weyoun is my fave, but your recaps of the episodes nearly killed me. Please recap your favourite episodes in their entirity like this. Weyoun was like "That's my shit right there." "Mouths off at Ezri and gets his neck snapped by Worf." "That was my last Weyoun." I need entire fan fics written like this.
Great video Steve! I personally view Weyoun much like you said as a "Company Man", however I don't consider him as big as villain as others because just following orders does not qualify for a personal drive to do evil or villain arc. What is true is that Weyoun is the perfect conniving sycophant. He's doing what he is ordered to do by his deity which he was genetically engineered to not question. Jeffery Combs did such a terrific job acting. From a Hollywood standard people are conditioned to think that psychopaths make the best villains a simple black and white demonstration of no thinking involved. Real villains are more complex and have many shades of grey. To be fair the writers delivered that fan expectation with Gul Dukat and in many ways over delivered with how easy it was to make their point with such a ruthless, self narcissistic, and self diluted individual. Dukat clearly drank his own kool aid and constantly hammed it up and reminded people of just that. However by all merits of writing what a true villain is that title would belong to Kai Winn. The reason is she has strong convictions that she changed for what she selfishly began viewing as the greater good. You have to compare these to understand what makes the Core of a villain. Winn was much more interested in gathering power than serving the Prophets, who were at the center of Bajoran faith. To a villain they must view their deeds as the greater good for personal drive. She went as far as to justifying making a deal with the devilish Pah Wraiths. Following orders is not on the level. Where the true Saint to be objectively fair was actually the Weyoun who realized that Peace and Cooperation was in the best interests of everyone. The ingenious writers paradoxically wrote DS9 to appeal to a wider base with Dukat because he's easy to follow and a likeable heel because he's blatantly evil. He's not trying to hide it at all like the real villains pulling strings do. Interestingly enough Major Kira plays a pivotal roll for the villains that is central for them to revolve around. Kai Winn however is the arc of a true villain. A villain turned to the good side or former villain, is usually the end result of a villain exposed to a Purely Good hero, a Messiah, a Hope Bringer, and occasionally a Charismatic Hero. This is reflected in her helping Sisko the Prophet when she dies. Although not as flashy her character arc deserves recognition because if we were simply telling the story of DS9 from Bajor we can imagine that the good guys are actually not portrayed as the Federation or Dominion but the Bajorians and that Kai Winn would do anything to deliver actionable results for what she believed was right. Even if it meant corrupting herself for power and that is the mark of a true villain.
One of my favorite small Weyoun moments is the bit where Jake is trying to get him to transmit his news articles to Starfleet while the Dominion has control of the station.
A great addition/celebration of Weyoun Wednesday! I honestly found Weyoun to be really full of humor, even though it was mostly the dissonance between the situation and his reactions.
Weyoun is the perfect servile underling, yet at the same time, this video makes me want to see a character who *actually is* the way Weyoun likes to present as - the perfectly friendly diplomat (not just manipulator, actual diplomat) who would be smart and capable enough to be the leader, yet shares Weyoun's nonexistent ambition and "I live to serve the Founders" spirit - in other words, take Weyoun and remove all the most punchable bits. Then again, that might be what Weyoun 6 is...
Damar's belly laugh after Worf kills Weyoun 7 is a gem That never fails to give me as big a laugh.
"Well, Heelloooo!"
"Maybe you should go ask Worf again."
We don't get alot of LOL moments in the Trekisphere but this was one.
You should have killed me. There is only one Damar ❤.
“It’s clove. And don’t call me ‘Cinnamon.’”
This does make me realize I wish we had an episode where Garak really got to work off of Weyoun in some way, can you imagine that conversation?
Was Q a villain?
Valid point! Is human morality even applicable to a Q? They seem to exist beyond human ideas of good and evil, do they not?
Q was an antagonist, but I don't think I'd call him a villain.
Why lemons might actually BE ... the best fruit.
Not middle management! When Steve started to describe him I thought, "oh, so he is like my boss."
Did anyone else notice a parallel between Weyoun-7 rationalising that it's OK to send a ship to blow up Odo because "he doesn't think of himself as a Founder" etc. and Winn Adami, seeking power, rationalising "the Prophets didn't help Bajor during the Occupation, so it's OK for me to betray them?"
Or am I reading too much into that?
Maybe it’s because the writers knew that people who are capable of twisting and betraying *their own* most firmly-held beliefs are the most morally repugnant people of all. Seeing someone be a douchebag is one thing, but seeing someone be a douchebag *against their own moral code which they’re usually preaching obnoxiously to anyone in earshot*? That’s just completely despicable.
Come to think of it, Dukat shares some of those qualities too. They’re all awful hypocrites! Damn, DS9 is so good.
“we are nothing alike….. nothing at all.”
NOW I have. I couldn't say it was an intention parallel but it sure is there!
That scene bothered a little, not a lot because the established 'bad brains' are a thing in clones.
Possibly they sour more and more as they go down the chain, or something like that?
The reason it annoyed me was - boarding actions still exist, they could have tractored and captured.
Drop their shields with low level shots and make another 'teleporter accident' happen....
So many other options then betraying the one element that shouldn't even be possible to betray!
Not at all. DS9 is full of parallel story telling
She may not be the best villain, but the female changeling is definitely one of the scariest just because of how utterly callous she is.
How quickly she resorts to "kill them all, I don't want to deal with it!", it's just...she's so above it all, and she knows it. Every moment she has to spend among the solids is a moment she doesn't spend in the great link, and she bears it with equanimity and grace...and a callous indifference to the suffering and deaths of others. Truly chilling.
@@jasonjones7461 Odo was the first of the changelings to return home. They took his chosen form.
The funny thing was she was the reason the dominion failed as soon as she put more control over the planning and everything. Weyoun was an extremely competent diplomat and strategist who was winning the war in spite of the lack of reinforcements from the wormhole. The female changling is so blatantly evil she is incompetent
“Cardassian survivors? There were no Cardassian survivors. They’re dead, you’re dead, Cardassia… is dead. Your people were doomed the moment they attacked us. I believe this answers your question.”
They founders are changeling supremacists and have zero qualms about outright genocide. They're too realistic.
I'm a huge fan of Weyoun. I just love how gosh-darned disappointed he is that you don't want to be subjugated by his gods' empire.
He's like a missionary for the founders
One of the underrated moments of Weyoun's character is when he interacts with Jake Sisko in "A Time to Stand". Weyoun is courteous, but firm, almost pitying Jake for his naïveté about "Freedom of the Press". He isn't spiteful or cold. He pretty much gaslights Jake into apologizing to him. It's a masterful bit of Vorta diplomacy that I think only Jeffrey Combs could pull off.
This is one of my all time favorite Weyoun moments and I thought for sure Steve would bring it up. I also enjoy that his Jem'Hadar guards go immediately into kill mode by Jake's intrusion and Weyoun so casually dismisses any action like it happens all the time
I just now commented that I have used the. I never dreamed of asking you. As weyoun in my professional life
I remember that! Never forgot it. What a bastard he was, yet reverent and deferential to Odo. Glorious.
"Jake, please tell me you're not that naive."
So, how did he describe the occupying force??
Weyoun literally asks for Odos blessing while dying in his arms.
Even after basically being cast off by the Dominion, he is still loyal to the founders.
its heartbreaking
I liked that he asked Odo to do(or be present) for his debreafing, to make it much easier for him to basically betray the dominion. It fit so much. without Odo, he would revert to his manipulating(maybe less then others) but half truth and what not, with Odo, he would feel compelled to tell all as it is.
That moment was what solidified Weyoun as the wife's favorite character.
The face he makes at his death, which Odo reminisces about later, is really so fantastically acted by Combes, he looks so happy to be blessed and peaceful and content. Its all the best sort of tragedy, you completely feel for this Weyoun.
"My country, right or wrong - But when wrong, to be set right."
One scene I kind of liked was that one time Weyoun thought Jake and Nog were up to some kind of plot against him. He brings them in to question them, Jake tells the truth but Weyoun doesn't believe it. So then Jake tells him an over the top lie of the sort that wouldn't be too far out of place in an actual episode.
"I believe you," Weyoun said. "That is, your first story." And he returns the card, sends the boys off.
It shows he's a villain, but a smart one.
That's one of my favorite episodes.
Especially because everyone wins, good and bad.
Well except for Leeta who lost Bashir's bear.
@@pauljackson3491 "What's a Kukulaka?" LMAO
It's a good illustration of Weyoun's unique characteristics as a villain. He truly isn't in this for his ego. Insult the Founders, and he'll burn your world to ash in his personal fury. (Well, he'll want to.) But he truly has no ambition of his own other than to please the Founders. And to live; he really does like being alive, and he's not above the pleasures of life. But those _are_ secondary to pleasing the Founders. So, when Jake and Nog are proven to be doing nothing against him or the Founders or the Dominion, he holds no grudge.
Also, I think, to some extent, Weyoun genuinely liked Jake.
and the fact that Vorta are designed to be brilliant at spotting lies for diplomacy., so, of course he tells the difference instantly when Jake tells truth then tries a lie instead.
Weyoun: "All this talk of gods strikes me as superstitious nonsense."
Damar: "You believe the Founders are gods, don't you?"
Weyoun: "That's different."
Damar: "Ha! In what way?"
Weyoun: "The Founders *are* gods."
Damar: "..........."
It’s like talking to a Christian about Greek Mythology.
Not to be a founder apologist but to the vorta the founders are for all intents and purposes gods are they not? They took a monkey equivalent out of the trees and engineered them into what we see in the series. Their lives, civilization, and social order is something literally given to them by the founders.
Or do god have to fit the monotheistic traditional framing as omnipotent or omniscient beings which created the entire universe?
@@TheJamiesg As Sisko puts it, "You only worship them because that's what they made you to do" "Of course they did - that's what Gods DO!" (He does have a point)
@@TheJamiesg Interesting question. I don't think they do, but that conversation is lols. Weyoun points out that the Bajoran gods are nothing more than superstition and immediately comes back to Damar's skepticism by doubling down on his own obstinacy.
@@wsconsn lmao
Jeffrey Combs really makes the difference here. Weyoun wouldn't have worked nearly as well without his amazing work. He's always a pleasure to watch.
I´d love to see him and Ed Wasser in the same room talking one day.
Another reason Weyoun is such a stand out villain is we see little reflections of the Dominion and the tyranny of the founders through him, even the tyranny over their own subjects. The scene where he regards Ze'al's art and tries to, through sheer force of will, gain an understanding of aesthetics is actually a little tragic. It is a window into how unless something servers the founders, they considered it not only unimportant but a distraction, and will use a combination of indoctrination and genetic tampering to prevent their followers from accessing it. The Jem'hadar and Vorta are terrible tools of the fascist Changelings, but they are tools nonetheless, with little agency in what they ever could have done. They are victims of the founders as well, who have been forged into oppressors. Like when Sisko asked Remata'klan "Do you really want to give up your life for the 'order of things'?"
"It is not my life to give up, Captain - and it never was."
Great comment. Sisko develops respect for the Jem’Hardar because despite their entire being genetically manipulated for the Founders they have a sense of honor, something Weyoun does not have at all.
There was one line from that scene that I always felt added real depth to Weyoun's character: "Gods don't make mistakes... though, I think it would be nice to be able to carry a tune."
It is the Order of Things.
One of the more interesting scenes of DS9 is when we find out that Weyoun (and other Vorta) can't appreciate art. I think that's a good metaphor about how slavish devotion to authority destroys your individuality and creativity.
I always felt like the Vorta were genetically modified to not have any interest in material possessions and the like. You can't bribe, sway, distract, or tempt the Vorta with things like money or art or small Ferengi moons. That makes them both devoted as you mentioned and completely, utterly loyal. It's both ingenious and terrifying.
And that he can’t really taste anything but whatever berries the Vorta’s ancestors ate.
@@laurakb196 The Vorta really just exist to serve the Founders, don't they? Not to feel pleasure, not to build communities or raise the next generation, not to distinguish themselves in the eyes of their fellows...they just exist to serve their masters. That's kinda horrifying.
But most, if not all, art in human history was created by servitors to authority figures like kings, emperors and popes, and todays oligarchs. All religious art is by definition created by “slavish” devotees to gods, God and buddhas.
@@nomanor7987 really just a small part of art has been for authorities though, hasn't it? People have made a thousand doodles and daisy chains and collages for themselves for every painting of whichever holy figure or king.
Of all the paintings that even survived most are not religious or of kings or generals, galleries in every city are full of them, and that's after the states and monarchies and religions had the means to preserve most of theirs, while everyday people had to let most of the art ever created go to rot.
And very nearly all religious and authoritarian art is pretty terrible, it may be competent, but it's more propaganda than art! The communist brutalist stuff may be an exception, horrifying propaganda again, but it's quite creative.
There's a LOT more music that's not religious or in service to authority....
Statues, though. I think authority does have an edge in statue numbers. Prob coz they're kinda expensive....
"Have they agreed to cooperate"
"No…Maybe you should talk to Worf again" shows how Damar really can't stand Weyoun
Damar is, hands down, the funniest Cardassian. He cracks three pretty good lines in quick succession when the new Weyoun enters the room. (I shall count them: "well hellloooooo", "oh you misjudge me, I miss him deeply" and "maybe you should talk to Worf again".)
The best part of that line is the delivery. Damar laughs as he says it. Besides being a very funny joke, it further drives home the hatred you mentioned; the idea of Weyoun dying again fills Damar with glee.
And in the Resistance's first strike against the Dominion, they take out a seemingly random cloning facility that *just so happens* to be the place where the data/material needed to make Weyoun clones is stored. When Weyoun says "I'm the last of the Weyouns", you can see the horror on his face...along with the realization that Dumar hates him enough to doom him to never be cloned again. He REALLY hates Weyoun! 😆
The interplay and barely concealed mutual hatred between Weyoun and Damar is simply glorious.
When Weyoun drinks the poisoned Kanar in the episode Ties of blood and water and says “oh that really is quite toxic isn’t it”, the look on Gul Dukat’s face just cracked me up and is priceless. Weyoun then says “Vorta are immune to most poison’s”.
I'm gonna resurrect an ancient thread just to post that that exact scene is one of my favorite ds9 moments!
That was a great scene and I'm glad someone had mentioned it. And it's not just an entertaining quippy moment. Weyoun expertly uses his "party trick" to deescalate the confrontation that seems to be on the verge of boiling over between Sisko and Dukat.
Still tastes gross though.
Honestly, I think Weyoun Six is more consistent with the other Weyouns, than Weyoun Seven. Treachery, Faith and the Great River is one of my favorite episodes of DS9 (and of all ST), I saw it countless times, and I came to the realisation that W6 is a perfectly good clone, and W7 is the faulty one.
After his activation, W6 learns about the diseas of the Great Link. He realize that all changeling will die expect Odo. If he wanna serve his gods in the long run, he has to serve Odo. And if he wanna serve Odo, he has to except Odo's viewpoint about the war, the Dominion, the universe and everything. So he does. But he is still that manipulative, two-tongued Weyoun we all love. I think all other Weyoun could do the same thing in his place. (Well, maybe not Weyoun Four, but he was really only a proto-Weyoun, as a character).
On the other hand, W7 does something in the episode, what no other Weyoun would do: he try to get Odo murdered, and than he lying about it to the Female Founder. I think he is the Weyoun, who exceeds the literal interpretation of "serving the Dominion". W6 disobeying the Founders, but he obeying Odo; he chosses the god who will live over the gods who will die. Yes, at the and he disobeying Odo too, but only to save him from death. But W7 disobeying the Founders AND disobeying Odo. He willing to sacrifice Odo for the good of the Dominion - despite the clear intent of the real rulers of the Dominion. And when he lieing to the Founder, he does it to save himself only - not her, or the Founders, or the Dominion.
This is why I think W7 was a faulty clone, and this is why I can genuinely like Weyoun Five and Eight (and off course Six), but I can't like Seven. They are bad guys, but they competly and perfectly loyal to their gods, and they sincerely believes that what they do is good (or at least necessary), because their gods told them so. They are predetermined to think that way; from this viewpoint, they are one of the Dominion's victims. But not W7: he somehow can put his own interest before the honesty with a Founder. And when you lost that complet loyalty, there is nothing left, just that dispicable, "very killable" bad guy.
I agree on your point about Weyoun 7. Especially his shift in the interaction with Damar after the alliance with the Breen. He is openly cruel towards him and does a good job of alienate him, something the pervious Weyouns would have been cautious of.
On the other hand its quite hillarious how he seems to enjoy every time the Breen says anything and for all we know they could have just said "I hate your eyes!"
definitely agreed. it seems like weyoun 6 was actually uniquely gifted in that he was able to consider things in the long term rather than just the short term. with odo and the survivial and the founders of course, but also more broadly. war may be good for short term gains of the people in power but is terrible for the long term health of a society, and weyoun 6 realized this.
Makes sense to me that 7 needed to be different. The founders realized that the genetic recipe wouldn't work with the knowledge that they were dying. All Wayuon, if they stuck with their original recipe, would put Odo above the rest of the founders. So, they had to tweak the recipe. They just didn't get it right the first time.
If it helps any I think your version of the Female Changelings line is much better, as while "That was the last clone of Weyoun" gives the original some status of importance, "That was my last Weyoun" would have really nailed in how the thrall races of the Founders were seen as mere tools rather than actual people that ever really mattered.
He was the quietest voice, yet he commanded the biggest stick. I mean the fact that the Female Founder trusted him implicitly meant he had the whole Dominion military at his beck-and-call.
Or he was slick enough to convince everyone he had the whole Dominion military at his beck-and-call. Of such skills are legends made...
Will the founder ALSO knew when NOT to trust him as well which is when you can trust someone like that.
One of the moments that really captures Weyoun's two-faced villainy is when he confronts Sisko about deploying a minefield at the entrance to the wormhole. He starts with threats and indignance, trying to intimidate Sisko. But when he realizes that Sisko isn't going to back down, he immediately changes tack, spinning a yarn about how the Dominion is "peaceful" and just trying to help Cardassia rebuild. Sisko plays along in the moment and of course, doesn't buy anything Weyoun says, but it's a great little moment that shows exactly how Weyoun operates.
Weyoun even tries to use "starving children" to manipulate Sisko.
He is very scary actually.
Weyoun is a great villain because he knows exactly what his power is and because he doesn’t want more he can wield it like a knife. He never makes threats he can’t follow up. There’s no bluster of bluffing. And there never feels like there is any malice in his actions.
This is what I love too! The only time you really see him mean is with Damar whom he just can't stand. He isn't malicious. If the Founders said 'okay call off the war we love solids now' he'd throw himself behind that completely. He's amoral in the truest sense-- incapable of being any other way. The Vorta in general are so tragic to me and the Founders treat them like disposable tools.
As the length of any Star Trek series increases, the likelihood of Jeffrey Combs appearing approaches one
I'm okay with this
They don't even cast him anymore he just shows up on set and Make-up gets to work. He's so good no one notices the random character who doesn't have any lines in the script.
@@mikeschultz5551 I like to think he was in full Shran Makeup for his lower decks voice work.
I keep waiting for him to pop up on Discovery or Picard.
Yeah I'm shoked he hasn't been on discovery yet.
Jeffrey Combs is an amazing actor, he usually plays such despicable characters but he also plays my favorite character in ST Enterprise as Commander Shran, his rivalry with archer is hilarious.
I love how he delivers the phrase "pink skin", and how it changes throughout the series. At first there's condescension, then there's grudging respect, or sometimes annoyance...and then there's a sort of camaraderie, like it's turned into an affectionate barb, only deployed as a sign of admiration and support. It's funny, how an actor's delivery can mark the progress of another, different actor's character's story arc.
Tell Archer we're not even anymore, he owes me.
Thought the Re Animator movie series with his performances were pretty good.
Oh I didn’t know he did both…. Cool
Weyoun, "the lickiest bootlicker who ever licked a boot." Well said, my friend. He is one of my favorite characters in all of Star Trek, second only to Garak. Despite all of this, one of my favorite things about him was the multitude of ways he dies, Vaporized by his Jem-Hadar First with a Federation Phaser Rifle, a "totally random" transporter "accident" that conveniently missed Damar, Suicide implant, Worf, and Garak. Such an honor. Weyoun 5 plays Dabo and drinks poison, Weyoun 6 ate pizza with chopsticks, and Weyoun 7... Death by Worf! Yes he is the best villain DS9 has to offer. You say two-faced, I say dynamically complicated, either way Jeffrey Combs brought him to life and just made it work! Looking forward to Weyoun 9, lol.
I read that quote just as the guy in the video said it, most uncanny! :D
"What's in this, cinnamon?" Uh oh...
I've always been really fascinated by the Jem'Hadar for lots of reasons.
They're slaves that have been so thoroughly subjugated that they make their bondage, not only a matter of honour, but a full blown religion.
They have *ONE* chance to seize freedom (To The Death) and they fail.
It takes more than a year (Rocks And Shoals) for Sisko to start to see them as another victim of the Dominon, and even a potential ally.
Weyoun is the GOAT. The smarm. The absolute devotion to the Goo Nazis. The barely-concealed contempt for everyone *but* Goo Nazis. Every Weyoun episode - every line - is to be treasured.
Sounds like Trump and Putin...
@@silentotto5099 ,
If that is the extent of your real-world knowledge, that so many other people who fit the model better do not come to mind, shows why I hold such regrets for today's educational systems....
Weyoun was at least competent.
Smarmy is the perfect adjective for Weyoun 😂
@@lostbutfreesoul see my other comment. I liken Weyoun to a Soviet political commissar in WW2.
@@silentotto5099 except Weyoun is *fictional* which means it’s okay to appreciate these qualities, because they’re also *fictional* - as are Goo Nazis and all the people they hurt and what’s your point anyway
Jeffrey Combs is a real treasure. I hope he will be in future Star Trek projects. Great video!
He was just in an episode of Star Trek Lower decks.
@@CarolineIronwill I'm not. I'll check him out.
his recent voice role in Lower Decks is a thing of beauty. I hope Strange New Worlds can at least get him a guest part of some sort. He's just too much of a treasure to not use at least once more.
I was so excited to see him in an episode of Criminal Minds as the bad guy, but in that episode the case was the b story line. The episode was focused on Garcia and her past. Such a waste of his talent
Don't forget about his role as The Question in the old Justice League cartoons. As far as I'm concerned, he's in the top 20 voice actors of the last 30 years
The scene with Odo asking Weyoun to reinstate Bajoran Security is even more perfect, because after he gives in to the request Weyoun has one of his own, that Odo join the meetings to run DS9. This brings Odo into the muddy waters of politics, where Weyoun can manipulate even the Founder he claims to worship.
I choked on my juice with laughter when you said, "He's just so killable". Because that is so very true, and the way you said it is hilarious. No wonder they're already on #5 and by the end of the series, they run out of Weyouns lmao.
I also love the additional "Fuck you" delivered by Dumar who, in the first coordinated strike of the Cardassian Resistance against the Dominion, strikes a cloning facility that contains the data/material necessary to clone Weyoun specifically. The look on Weyoun's face when he says "I'm the last of the Weyouns" is priceless, a look I'm sure Dumar wishes he'd been able to see (along with Weyoun's death, but he died before Weyoun), but nonetheless probably took great pleasure in.
...anyway, care for a cup of cinnamon tea? I'm thirsty all of a sudden...
Hello there! Maybe you should talk to Worf again.
@@DrTssha Poor, poor Dumar. He really should have been able to kill the last Weyoun himself. And yes, I'll take some cinnamon tea 😉🍵 thanks
@@hankrearden20 LOL yeah, Worf could have killed himself another Weyoun if Garack didn't finish off the last one.
A great ST villain can often be seen as an anti-Kirk, an anti-Picard, etc. Weyoun is, in many regards, an anti-Sisko. Of course, I'm writing this 1/10 of the way through the video, Steve might be about to spend the next 30 minutes saying this...
"Dominion takes a dim view of terrorism" was perhaps the most chilling line written for Weyoun, it still gives me the creeps.
Considering that there isn’t much that the dominion DOESN’T take a dim view of, the implied perspective is ominous.
Dominion is an Authorotarian Imperialist regime, it comes with the package.
One of my favorite Weyoun lines is when he’s looking at a painting that Dukat’s daughter made (if I remember correctly) and asks him if it would be more aesthetically pleasing in blue.
That and Dukat's straight up racism, like when he wondered why the Bajorans couldn't accept their inferiority and submit to Cardassian occupation...
And build statues to him in gratitude on how benevolent he was to them when he could have killed millions more than he did.
But Dukat did nothing wrong...
And the fact he cannot understand anything he does as racist
I think people defend Dukat because he's a compelling villain. That, and all those "villains who had a point" clickbait articles that act as if a villain having a positive/relatable/laudable aspect makes them the hero.
Exactly, it’s ok because they had a bad childhood/something traumatized them to make them bad
My favorite line of the entire series:
Damar to Weyounn 8: "Maybe you should talk to Worf, again. *snicker*"
🤣😂🤣😂
Damar and Weyounn are like a married couple who hate each other but stuck together.🤣
I firmly believe that "Dukat did nothing wrong" posters exist ironically to annoy Steve and people who share his proclivities. Also acting is fun and it's fun to roleplay a horrendous person.
As a role-playing game GM, can confirm wholeheartedly
@@TheAnimeAlliance right, the writer has to be able to get what is in their head on paper well enough so others can perform as close to their vision as possible. But then the actor reads it from a different point of vie and add their own flavor, and then the directors and others give their input as well. It really is a blending to get what we eventually see on screen. With something like Star Trek, the writers look at the performance to influence what they write, Weyoun and Garak being the perfect examples. They were both supposed to be one off characters but they were so good they just HAD to come back
I agree, they're most likely ironic comments. In the remote chance they are serious, I see it as proof of how good both the writers and actors were in bringing to life these characters.
I feel Steve does a dirty to middle managers here. Granted, they're rare, but the great middle managers are something to behold. Or rather, you hardly notice them because they shield the underlings from upper management's yearning for relevance and just gets everyone to get on with things.
Thanks for this 👆. As a former middle manager-turned-Director it is indeed a tough task to protect your crew against corporate forces while still encouraging productivity. In my current role it is really hard to find these kinds of personalities, and we now refer to them as Facilitators or Project Leaders. Privately, I refer to them as the air traffic controllers of our industry.
Kinda reminds me of what Terry Pratchett says about Sergeants in Monstrous Regiment. They're in a good position to mediate and filter, and can have a lot of power for the good if they play it right.
Some of the other Vorta (maybe Kilana) come across as a bit better. I've had some decent middle managers, but they have been hit and miss
Nothing more dangerous to productivity and morale than a member of upper management who consciously or subconsciously knows their position is redundant or irrelevant, and throws their weight around and makes noise in the desperate pursuit of trying to make themselves seem relevant and/or useful because their afraid their bosses higher up the chain will realize they're not worth the salary.
Or just want to do their jobs and hoped they dont blow gasket
He is Jeffrey Freaking Combs, which gives him huge points.
Everything is better with Jeffrey Combs. That's just a fact.
The fact that Weyoun is a killable lickspittle makes him more dangerous, because his enemies will underestimate him and assume that he's just a sniveling toady. Then they find themselves outmatched when he makes a bad deal with them or stabs them in the back. He's a brilliant villain; better than Dukat.
One of my favorite lines of dialogue in the whole series comes from Weyoun 6. Odo accuses him of "just being paranoid" in his assertions that Dominion leadership wants him dead, and he says, "Of course I'm being paranoid! Everyone's trying to kill me!"
If they had added Jeffery Combs' Andorian to the regular cast as a part of the crew somehow, I don't think Enterprise would have been canceled when it was. I know there were plans in future seasons but if they had moved that up it would have helped immensely.
The thing I like about Weyoun, is how much he clearly wants to better himself. He doesn't understand art, but he WANTS to understand it. He can't really taste new foods, but he still wants to experience them, going through the runabout's entire stock of dishes so he can at least learn their textures. They're small things, but they're there- and they're a bit tragic. It's a shame, that despite wanting to expand his boundaries, he's incapable of doing so due to the limitations the Founders put on him, and he completely refuses to recognize that an injustice was done to him.
I also like to think that, for Weyoun 6... it's less that he found the violence and the war distasteful.... but more that he learned the Founders are dying. If they're dying, then that means the only one of his gods left, would be Odo. Which means, he HAS to serve Odo, in order for him to feel like he has a use. So he doesn't care about the war, actually, he's just saying what he knows Odo wants to hear. Or, he started from 'I need to do what Odo wants' and THEN decided the war was unjust. Which is why the changelings changed 2 things for Weyoun 7; first, they lowered his slavish devotion to Odo, which is why he's willing to kill him, using the justification that Odo doesn't technically consider himself a founder- and second, keeping him FIRMLY in the dark about the sickness that the Founders are suffering.
I’ve always taken exception with the term “female changeling.” It reminds me of “lady doctor.” As if we know they’re all supposed to be guys, so when there’s a girl one, that’s how we’ll identify her. She’s actually the leader of the changelings, but we’ll just call her “female.”
🤔
Or you could take the double title of the "Lady Doctor" as a compliment and get over yourself...
She didn't have a name. That's the only way to differentiate her from the others, really.
What were they supposed to do? She didn't give them her name, if she even had one; she was technically just part of a collective consciousness which had separated from the whole ("the ocean becomes the drop"). She never identified herself as the leader of the Changelings, she was just representing the Great Link during their efforts in the Alpha Quadrant. The only thing which distinguished her was the fact that she's the only Changeling we see who assumes a female identity. It sets her apart.
I just thought it was a way of identifying her from the other changelings we’ve seen. I’ve never heard a name given for her so idk what else people would call her, I don’t think it’s as deep as you make it out to be
Weyoun is one of the best villians of all star trek and combs best role, at least for me. Unlike Dukat he does not enjoy beeing cruel, he just want to do his job as best as he can. And like Steve said he did everything with a smile. If he is not flat out ordered to force his will (more the will of the founders) on others he allways try to do diplomacy.
Who could forget the real villain of DS9, the person who threw a Klingon Dictionary at a random writer and asked them to translate all the Klingon lines.
Well yeah Weyoun keeps coming back. I heard the guy knows how to "reanimator" his body.
I always found Weyoun to be such a lovable villain, one who makes you think there's something truly good and sincere deep down fighting to get out from under his genetically engineered traits, even if it wasn't true. He wanted to understand art, he loved a party, he was curious about everything and seemed to genuinely enjoy people. There seemed to be something actually innocent and confused about him at times. (too much messing with his genetics I guess). Weyoun 6 was a good guy. All the Weyouns seemed to truly love (as well as defer to) the founders, But Dukat...I hated him. He did everything for his own personal glory. Jeffrey Combs portrayal of Weyoun was a thing of beauty, deft and artful, and a delight to watch and listen to.
“On Star Trek they do Star Trek shit” needs to be converted into merch immediately.
"Time to pack!" Weyoun's greatest line.
Do you think one of the first orders of new Cardassia was to rename all bathrooms as Weyouns.
I love that the Jem'hadar ships don't have front monitors only the top ranking people can see what's going on because loyalty is so important. Its a nice piece of story telling and it probably saved on the budget too.
Back when my mother was still with me, she always shuddered whenever she saw Jeffrey Combs in any tole, because she had found Weyoun so much of a creep - he did such a great job of selling that character that Mum's feelings about Weyoun carried over to other shows and films!
I cannot articulate how much I love Jeffrey Combs in this role.
He'd make a great Bond Villain.
Jeffrey Combs played his role well. I would have loved to have see an Deep Space 9 movie tho.
Me too!
"James Kirk was a great man, he went on to captain the Enterprise... But that was another life, a life I will deprive you of... Like i did you're father... YES JT... it was ME all along... My ship... it can hop through time... bet you hadn't figured THAT little nugget of information out yet had you... For you its been decades... but for me... its been roughly the length of like... i don't know... If this conflict was a movie... I Feel like they would open with that shot but then in the closing moments of the third act probably get me to do a callback just in case people had forgotten how the film ... JT... You've gone limp... Why are you rolling you're eyes at me? This is just like the Romulan mining facilities in house therapist once used to say... actually... funny story.. this ship... was a state of the art mining ship for its time... Too bad your times running out... just like your father did... Okay so technically he died and didn't walk out... but you're still the child of a single mother and i guess it kind of...well there IS a through line to my thoughts on that last one... Why do my hands hurt"?
Jeffery Combs did such a great job on DS9 and Enterprise. Every character he played was unique and layered, I really hope he gets a guest role in Strange New Worlds (maybe a really old Admiral Shran).
Pffft! Mr. Combs deserves his own series. Captain Combs has a nice ring to it. Don't you think?
When Worf twists Weyoun's head to break his neck, and then the next clone shows up and Damar starts laughing: "Maybe you should talk to Worf again." Dude. That is one of the funniest moments in all of Star Trek to me.
And in the case of why Dukat is a villain the fact he's a fascist. No amount of admirable qualities could compensate for that, even if he lacked all the things you mentioned some Trek villains having.
My husband and I used to cackle with glee and bounce up and down in our seats when Weyoun first appeared in an episode. He is definitely one of the greatest Star Trek characters of all time. Bonus: they did not overuse him.
To me one of the funniest moments in all of Star Trek was when Weyoun 8 is talking to Demar after Worf killed Weyoun 7 and Demar says something like "why dont you ask Worf?" Weyoun 8 just shoots him a LOOK! My last watching i had to pause to finish laughing.
Weyoun did exhibit a brief sense or morality when the female changeling ordered the Cardassians to be exterminated. The tone used in "That will take some time" was seemingly like "Come on Founder there are more important things to be doing."
I always imagined Weyoun, Dukat, and Damar as the mad scientists from Mystery Science Theater 3000. Every episode in the last three seasons or so cuts back to them + the changeling commenting on the episode at hand every other commercial break. Weyoun and Damar were especially humorous.
I wanna say thank you Steve, I absolutely love your Star Trek videos.
I work for the nhs in the uk, your in-depth reviews got me though a lot of hard times with the covids.
Thank you again and I still wanna say “shut up wesley”
I think that line you were recalling by the Female Changeling about Weyoun is the following:
"My loyal Weyoun. The only solid I have ever trusted."
(episode: "What You Leave Behind")
Thanks, Steve. I love these videos and appreciate your insight and humor. Nice way to start the day.
Sad 😔 killed by his Jem'hadar first 😢.
I love the scene where Worf kills Weyeon and Damar laughs at Weyoun's body!
The turn from Dukat to Odo didn’t seem exaggerated from what I remember.
Do you think Worf and Garak just shoot the shit together talking about how they killed Weyoun?
Treachery Faith and the Great River is one of my all time favorite Trek episodes.
Weyoun is absolutely not one to be underestimated. The whole crux of the augment's plan to save the Federation was to surrender to the Dominion because they predicted a rebellion would start on Earth that would lead to an even stronger Federation forming in the aftermath.
Couple of episodes later, Dukat and Weyoun are casually chatting over their plans for after defeating the Federation and Weyoun nonchalantly states that they'll have to destroy Earth just to make sure no rebellions come out of there.
The show doesn't draw your attention to it, but it just shows how Weyoun thinks long term and outsmarts the genetically superior humans. Of course Vorta are genetically engineered themselves, so there's a nice symmetry even there.
I liked the scene where Weyhoun and Kai Winn were together : 2 despicable, manipulative people interacting, simply charming!
Lex Luthor - "Otisburg? .... OTISBURG?!"
One bit about Weyoun 5's slavish eagerness to please Odo I loved is his immediate agreement to Odo's terms to restore Bajoran security to DS9 and offering him anythimg he wants....then as Odo turns away, Weyoun pipes up and makes a request of *Odo*. "Since I did that for you and all..."
Even in the face of a man he considers a god, Weyoun still has an agenda and will slimily worm it into conversation.
I wish we got more of wayoun. I think the dominion wars were some of THE best episodes of Star Trek period.
Nice Superman reference :)
A good example of Weyoun's two-face is in his first appearance, he mostly appears rather concerned about the rogue Jem'Hadar and deceitfully courteous when poking and prodding Sisko. Then he's like "The Dominion will survive long after the Federation has crumbled into dust" when Sisko insults the Dominion, and then brushes it off with a courteous quip. Simultaneously, he's concerned, courteous, and intimidating in that one scene.
Jeffery Combes is a great actor. His portrayal of Weyoun makes him so unlikable, but so lovable at the same time. I have to agree with you Steve, that Deep Space 9 was the best Star Trek series ever. The way the main characters develop as the series progressed really made it stand out, especially when compared to Voyager.
I just finished my first watch of DS9 a few months ago and Weyoun was always my favorite villain. The Jeffrey Combs was perfect.
Weyoun is a great and scary villain because he is a "Believer". We see a similar type of villain in the movie "Serenity".
"He's worse than a middle manager, He's a company man.." The writers of DS9 had seen true evil and willingly put it in a script.
While your running gag about Damar trying to poison Weyoum is funny it was missing something. A reaction by Weyoum where he just bluntly says, "you know I am immune to poison right?"
I kept waiting for that. A bit disappointed it came.
Because of that reason it wasnt funny to me at all. Especially after he himself earlier in the video reminded everyone that Weyoun is immune to poison.
As a German, I always thought that in reality are many more people like him. In a war, in a military organisation. Not for the better, but there can be only a few Kahn like villans. A lot of evil comes probably through middle managers not unlike him.
When I was younger, I didn’t start watching DS9 on a weekly basis until I was in middle school and by then the Dominion War had ready pretty much started. So I always viewed Weyoun as THE villain of DS9 more than Dukat.
Weyoun, the best villain on DS9. Brunt, perhaps the most hated Ferengi on the same show. Shran, the best recurring character on Enterprise. All played by Jeffrey Combs. . .
Sure just a coincidence. Right?
I still think Weyoun 7 was the defective one, not Weyoun 6. Weyoun 6 was willing to do whatever was necessary to protect the founders, even if they disagreed with him. Weyoun 7 was willing to kill a founder in order to carry out his orders and save his own neck despite knowing the other founders would never agree to that.
Steve, I haven't yet watched DS9's "Treachery, Faith And The Great River". Now I feel I have no choice but to watch it, since your rundown of the episode is just abso-f**k!ng-lutely FANTASTIC !!!
Thanx for the tip.😉
I don't always agree with your assessments, but this one about Weyoun was spot on. He was one of, if not THE best villain in DS9. He was ambitious, relentless, and loyal to all the wrong people. And yet, all that ambition and relentlessness was never for himself, making him very frightening. I think he feared failing his gods far more than he feared death.
Idk about y'all, but I'm CONVINCED that the jem'hadar rebellion was totally staged in order to get to Odo. I know, I know, I know, this wouldn't be considered canon if the writer's didn't intend it in the first place, BUT LISTEN--
The jem'hadar have proved time and time again that they're 10000% loyal to the Founders, to the point where they'd off themselves if they failed to protect one. Even the jem'hadar child who was without his people's guidance, was predisposed to this loyalty without even fully understanding it. Anyone could argue with "Hippocratic Oath" but I would quote from the episode:
Julian: "... And by controlling the supply of this drug, the Founders maintain control over you."
Goran'Agar: "*The Vorta!* They are the ones who control the drug... They are the ones we came here to escape."
Like Weyoun 6, they are never disloyal to the Founders. The only possible exception being Goran'Agar because he could naturally produce his own enzyme, and judging by his change in attitude, it was likely different from the product in some way. I wouldn't be surprised if Ketracel White was originally an enzyme the jem'hadar naturally produced in their body before the Founders genetically modified them. And it appears they found a drug similar to it that can be easily produced, but it also changed their behavior. It makes them prone to violence AND enjoy it. But how could that be possible? Well look at the Cardassian drug on the derelict space station that made Garak a bloodthirsty monster. If that's possible, I don't see how KW couldn't make jem'hadar seem like murder machines.
So back to "To The Death." Somehow I doubt the Dominion didn't catch wind of those defected jem'hadar that Julian tried to help. They infiltrated the Federation and Starfleet, so a report like that wouldn't go under the radar. They were fully aware of the events happening on Earth when a covert coup was underway. So now Starfleet has it in their heads that *some* jem'hadar *want* to leave the Dominion--but not for the reasons everyone assumes.
Isn't it a bit strange how easy it was for a rag-tag team of Starfleet officers and a handful jem'hadar to infiltrate *and* successfully destroy such a valuable alien device? And isn't it a bit *unusual* how so many jem'hadar managed to congregate on this planet without the Dominion sending an entire fleet to bombard the surface from orbit? Sure, they'd have to go inside the Iconian building to finish off the rest, but they'd be too busy enjoying a good fight to care about the "why." And even if they ask, the vorta could always lie and say those men don't believe in the Founders existence and have chosen to rebel--good enough reason to eradicate a rebel group. But what if those jem'hadar see the gateway and start another rebellion? Highly unlikely. Again, it's suspicious that all those jem'hadar just happened to be assigned to the same planet and all just happened to want the same thing. Not to mention, if those jem'hadar were *really* looking for support for this rebellion, they would've tried reasoning with *any* jem'hadar to join them to bolster their numbers. A group like that wouldn't be "join or die," more like "hey wanna kill indiscriminately without these stupid vorta calling the shots? Join us! No? Ok die then."
Also also, wasn't Omet'iklan's words to Odo weirdly... poetic? "It is not for us to accuse a god of betraying heaven. The gods themselves will sit in judgement over you." Sounds like something a vorta would say to a jem'hadar questioning the reason for allowing a "traitor" to return home after what he did. Why Weyoun didn't know that they knew? It's possible the Founders were purposefully creating tension between the two species to show them they *can* trust each other and have no need to question each other's loyalty to the Founders. Sure Weyoun 4 was pissy that Omet'iklan and his men knew about the gateway, but he still allowed mixed teams and brought success to the mission by trusting his soldiers. He could've gone behind Omet'iklan's back and try to convince Sisko that they're going to rebel and need to be terminated, but he didn't. After that, Weyoun 5 and 6 showed a sort of respect for his comrades. He treated the KW ritual like a communal session at a church, and he felt remorse killing his own soldiers even if it meant protecting Odo--A FOUNDER (and the future leader of the Dominion if his people had succumbed to the disease). That mission *CHANGED* Weyoun and made him a better Overseer, and thus an even better villain.
But I digress. Weyoun's true mission was to persuade or force Odo home, because isn't it oddly convenient that he had a virus on hand (pun intended) that only The Great Link could cure and he touched Odo after he refused to go home (not in view of the camera cuz of the super closeup). And nevermind what they might've done if Odo hadn't been on that ship, what about the fact that a *single transport ship supposedly got the upperhand of a combat ready ship?* Sounds a bit silly when you consider that team was assigned to hunt down those "rebels." Sure, maybe that transport ship had some teeth, but I doubt it would be enough to take down a combat ship without suffering enough damage to potentially undermine their goals.
Personally, I'm both sad and thankful the studio cut a huge chunk of the fight scenes in that episode. I would've loved to see Dax beat down on a ton of jem'hadar like the badass that she is, but it was "too violent" for TV and in-universe it would seem suspicious if the whole mission was too easy.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Omet'iklan was ordered to kill Weyoun once the mission was complete. 1) wouldn't want Starfleet capturing him; 2) it's quicker to debrief the clone than waiting for him to fly all the way back; 3) he has a frekkin changeling-killing virus on him, I doubt anyone would want that accidentally spreading around; and 4) while unrelated to the mission, I wouldn't doubt it was satisfying vaporizing his "boss" lmfao
I'm a nerd. Weyoun is my favorite and I love it when pieces of a story just works out with the rest of it so perfectly.
Dukat did nothing wrong. Humans showed up and fired on his ship without proper provocation. Typical. The Earth-Membari war wasn't his f- oh right. The other one. Uh.
I've found the "X did nothing wrong" meme is usually not serious. How anyone could seriously say Feanor did nothing wrong baffles me. Oh, well, Magnus for 40K too I guess, though I really blame daddy problems for that. Can't say that I'm shocked Star Trek has its own "nothing wrong" memes. Good stuff.
Sorry, but the best of us was Dukhat, not Dukat. But I can see where you'd get that mixed up.
I disagree with Steve's read of Weyoun 6 vs the rest. In "Treachery, Faith, and the Great River," BOTH of the Weyouns consciously defy their gods - 6 by defecting, and 7 by ordering Odo's death. They disagree with each other on strategy, not values. Because deep down, both of them, and ALL the Weyouns, understand that the Founders are not competent to run the universe. And part of a Vorta's job - the part that they all know about but just agree not to talk about - is to babysit the Founders and keep them from hurting themselves. You see a bit of this in the opening arc of Season 6, when Weyoun in an unguarded moment congratulates the Founder for neutralizing Odo, only to be rudely disappointed by the Founders' inability to put the greater good over their own personal feelings. Or again in the Season 6 opening arc, in that "Weyoun struggles with art" scene where Weyoun is obviously trying to let Kira know that he understands that the Founders are flawed, even though he has to pretend not to at all times.
What Weyoun REALLY, *truly* believes in, more than anything else, is *the Dominion* as a State. The Dominion will bring peace and order to the galaxy, and it is founded upon the worship of the Founders as infallible gods, so Weyoun will preach that good word even as he sits with the terrible, hidden knowledge that the Founders don't actually care about the Dominion at all.
Weyoun is my fave, but your recaps of the episodes nearly killed me.
Please recap your favourite episodes in their entirity like this.
Weyoun was like "That's my shit right there."
"Mouths off at Ezri and gets his neck snapped by Worf."
"That was my last Weyoun."
I need entire fan fics written like this.
Great video Steve! I personally view Weyoun much like you said as a "Company Man", however I don't consider him as big as villain as others because just following orders does not qualify for a personal drive to do evil or villain arc. What is true is that Weyoun is the perfect conniving sycophant. He's doing what he is ordered to do by his deity which he was genetically engineered to not question. Jeffery Combs did such a terrific job acting. From a Hollywood standard people are conditioned to think that psychopaths make the best villains a simple black and white demonstration of no thinking involved. Real villains are more complex and have many shades of grey. To be fair the writers delivered that fan expectation with Gul Dukat and in many ways over delivered with how easy it was to make their point with such a ruthless, self narcissistic, and self diluted individual. Dukat clearly drank his own kool aid and constantly hammed it up and reminded people of just that.
However by all merits of writing what a true villain is that title would belong to Kai Winn. The reason is she has strong convictions that she changed for what she selfishly began viewing as the greater good. You have to compare these to understand what makes the Core of a villain. Winn was much more interested in gathering power than serving the Prophets, who were at the center of Bajoran faith. To a villain they must view their deeds as the greater good for personal drive. She went as far as to justifying making a deal with the devilish Pah Wraiths. Following orders is not on the level. Where the true Saint to be objectively fair was actually the Weyoun who realized that Peace and Cooperation was in the best interests of everyone.
The ingenious writers paradoxically wrote DS9 to appeal to a wider base with Dukat because he's easy to follow and a likeable heel because he's blatantly evil. He's not trying to hide it at all like the real villains pulling strings do. Interestingly enough Major Kira plays a pivotal roll for the villains that is central for them to revolve around. Kai Winn however is the arc of a true villain. A villain turned to the good side or former villain, is usually the end result of a villain exposed to a Purely Good hero, a Messiah, a Hope Bringer, and occasionally a Charismatic Hero. This is reflected in her helping Sisko the Prophet when she dies. Although not as flashy her character arc deserves recognition because if we were simply telling the story of DS9 from Bajor we can imagine that the good guys are actually not portrayed as the Federation or Dominion but the Bajorians and that Kai Winn would do anything to deliver actionable results for what she believed was right. Even if it meant corrupting herself for power and that is the mark of a true villain.
One of my favorite small Weyoun moments is the bit where Jake is trying to get him to transmit his news articles to Starfleet while the Dominion has control of the station.
Mudd was always treated by Kirk like a misbehaving uncle🤦. I like the way Mr Coombs shows up multiple times as different characters and nobody minds🤷
A great addition/celebration of Weyoun Wednesday! I honestly found Weyoun to be really full of humor, even though it was mostly the dissonance between the situation and his reactions.
Weyoun is the perfect servile underling, yet at the same time, this video makes me want to see a character who *actually is* the way Weyoun likes to present as - the perfectly friendly diplomat (not just manipulator, actual diplomat) who would be smart and capable enough to be the leader, yet shares Weyoun's nonexistent ambition and "I live to serve the Founders" spirit - in other words, take Weyoun and remove all the most punchable bits. Then again, that might be what Weyoun 6 is...
Your from here but u are here. I couldn’t WAIT for you to say a term like FLUNKY definitely from this gen and area. Salute