I didn't really mind the way hostile species like the Kazon & the Vidiians disappeared later in the series. The way I looked at it Voyager was heading steadily towards the Alpha Quadrant and would eventually leave the territories of these early adversaries and enter the territories of new ones. It seemed consistent with what you would expect to happen.
I agree with this assessment in a lot of ways, and having just binged the show a few weeks ago it is interesting how one of the few indicators Voyager gives you progression is just that. They have passed out of a species' territory and therefore will be seeing them less. While it's not a very compelling way to build tension, I think it's a cool atmospheric touch that the series has. However I wished Voyager had found ways to build more rounded satisfying arcs without just being like, "bye bye Kazon and all the story building."
@@LUPART no it's actually always consistent with the area they're in. you even get an update that a treatment has been developed for the phage near the end, and getting that information to them required *work*.
One of the best shows ever made. This show helped me so much when I was in a horrible Heroin addiction. At times that I was depressed, at rock bottom, and had almost nothing to live for, I would watch Voyager and just be so happy. It’s more than a show to me
Me, my middle school discovery that my life in the closet was really gonna suck for over 20 more years, and the Khan trilogy. Leonard Nimoy and James Horner saved my soul! Idk what it is worth lukewarmly regarded trek (st3 is the most important film to me in this regard) serving so well as a backdrop to some hard living, but there it is!
I think Voyager is actually the closest Trek to TOS. Hear me out: Voyager, by being flung into the Delta Quadrant, brought the show back to the days where anything goes. Not just anything goes because Q says so, but just because noone has been out this far. The isolation from their home just opens up so many opportunities for creativity, just like with TOS. In TNG and DS9, we are playing in an established area of space. Sure there is plenty to see, and we do plenty of exploring, but there is a limit to how crazy you can go within Federation known space. TOS was about a crew on a frontier, and in leiu of large seasonal arch's, TOS leaned into it's characters to dive head first into interesting ideas. Among my favorite of these ideas is when Voyager encounters a planet where time moves much, much faster, and they are able to observe a civilization develop, unknowingly being a sort of symbol for them in the process. It's the kind of one episode plot that feels bigger than an episode, like the classic TOS style of beaming down to a Planet adorned with fog machines and governed by an interesting idea. I'm just surprised that instead of seeing this side of Voyager, all the haters seem to look at the side that Voyager messed up on.
I agree. I loved this Trek series and the character Chakotay, the most underused XO in Star Trek history. In the end he was more Starfleet than Janeway!
Voyager is my fav. It was on during the darkest time of my life and became a bright spot for me. Seven and The Doctor are some of the best characters in Trek. In my opinion.
The doctor seems like he should come off as irritating, but somehow he ends up being sincere and relatable and one of the best characters in all of Star Trek.
He is irritating. The key is that you make an irritating character grating on the other characters, but not to the audience. The Doctor world like that.
When I was younger, Star Trek was always two things to me. Firstly, is the idea that we're all on the same team. The second is that science is awesome. Voyager did not deviate. I enjoyed it as the space adventure show it was at the time.
Trek doesn't lie - we're all equal and should be on the same team, but that's not in the interests of the 1% so we've not got there yet... This is why Trek has to exist in a post-capitalism future. Also, science really IS awesome! 😁
Voyager is definitely my favorite Star Trek. It’s just got such a friendly, comforting feel to it; it feels like home. It was also the first Star Trek I watched when I was old enough to grasp the themes and characters fully, and Janeway was a really good role model for me as a little kid. It holds a lot of nostalgia for me and influenced me a lot.
Same. Voyager is the very first adult show my dad introduced me to, I think I was five. I have such good memories of that show. It really does feel like home.
My wife and I have been rewatching Voyager recently and when we got to Equinox I realised how much wasted potential there was in just making it a two parter. Just imagine if the Equinox crew hadn't immediately betrayed Voyager and decided to travel home together. the writers could have easily stretched the Equinox story into a short multi episode arc(4-6 episodes IMO) where the Equinox crew endeared themselves to the Voyager crew and earned their trust through mutual cooperation only to have the Equinox crew turn around and stab them in the back! That would have made their betrayal that much more impactful and meaningful.
Herogin should've been 3 part. Equinox more than anything showed us that despite Janeway's sometimes questionable decisions it could've been much much worse.
I think its nice that the equinox crew are a dark mirror to the original crew and i like how both captains start to embody a bit more of eachother as the 2 parter goes on. I think the greater waste of potential is in how voyager as a series, specifically calls into question the prime directive. Its why so far, i think Blink of an eye is my favouriite episode. You see the effect of voyagers existence causing a whole society to develop with the common goal of reaching the stars instead of the stereotypical 'developing a religion' thing. I think it would have been nicer if the series did more of that and attempted to critically examine if there were merits to this approach. You could have the borg threat be the thing that incites discussion on whether we arm helpless civillizations to prevent Borg assimilation as it would constitute a less severe violation of the prime directive then allowing the Borg to assimilate them.
They could have stretched Equinox into an entire season "Lost and found" episodes, ship and or crew "False flag" destroy one and suddenly it reappears having warped away "Cupid / High School strikes" again, all the relationships and shakeups of current relationships Then the reveal... ON A SEASON FINALE!! Dun, dun, DUN! LOL
I am all for it. Year of Kazon (or 2) Year of Vidiians Year of Borg Year of Hell Year of Equinox Year of Malon Year of Hirogen Did I forget any important?
Me Too! She was not the one they wanted to fire, but a TV guide cover put her on the chopping block. She had some fantastic acting moments. I don't understand the dislike for her. It's NOT deserved.
Same, I liked her character , I don't particularly like the episode when she comes back either, angry n older etc, cos even at the end of it, she's just cold n not the character we liked at all, I would have rather us just not seen her again after "the gift" Originally it way Harry Kim on the chopping block, til he was voted one of the top sexiest guys or Something like that, so Kes got the chop instead
I think Kes would have benefited from having an encounter with a Q, where she would learn that the reason why Ocampa have short lifespans was because the Q altered them to have extremely short lifespans as a result of their bloody history, which, in turn, would result in them becoming a weak species who could never fulfil their potential (both technology-wise and mental ability-wise), thus showing one of many possible fates for humanity had Picard failed his many tests at the hands of Q. This would give her an arc all throughout the show of her own where she tries to convince the Q to return the Ocampa their old life spans back, which are in human range. I realise this would be too similar to Picard's journey throughout The Next Generation, but it would at least connect to a constant theme that was present in the same era that started the era Voyager was on, while also giving Kes and her species a more important and prominent role in the story. Kes and the Ocampa would actually receive small boosts to their youth spans across Voyager, which would help explain why and how Kes gets to stay as young-looking on the show. For those wondering, the Q would be entirely different compared to the one The Next Generation crew encountered, you could even have HER, yes, HER be played by an actress for those that are intrigued by the idea.
A list of Kes' features and benefits:- a} Kes was a potential Charles Xavier. She exhibits telepathy, (which on one occasion she employs as a weapon) ability as a live clairvoyant lookout, and very powerful telekinesis. b} Kes was the ship's nurse; a role that both her emotional temperament and her physical profile were ideal for. Anyone reading this comment who is a nurse, will know that I don't really need to add anything else to this point, to emphasise Kes' value; especially when you consider some of the situations which *Voyager* got itself into. When Kes left, Tom Paris had to take her role; and as much as I like Tom as a character, that was a job which should have been given to someone else. Nursing was Tom taking a bullet for the team, and doing something he disliked while screwing up his face into a smile for his patients. It was duty, but it was not fundamentally part of who he was. c} Kes was a farmer (or harvester, at least) in the hydroponics bay, and if memory serves it was she who suggested the idea of the hydroponics bay to Janeway. d} Kes was the first advocate for the rights of the Doctor as a sentient being. In-universe, she was instrumental in the Doctor's evolution from a surgeon bot to a suprano. We would not have the Doctor as we later knew him, if it had not been for her.
I always thought it was weird that they assigned Tom to sick bay after Kes left. He’s the main pilot, doesn’t he have enough to do? Aren’t there like 140 other crew members wandering around the ship that we have the potential to flesh out a little?
Kes was sweet. We have to remember she was only 1 year old when she joined the crew. You don't have time to become a hard person with a plethora of skills when you are only 1 year old and lived sheltered in an underground society. I see her as the Voyager Version of Wesley Crusher in TNG and Jake Sisko in DS9. A character that has to grow up.
Kes as a character had potential had they changed things around a bit. Unfortunately, while she was sweet, that's all she was. It would have helped for her to appear just a bit more intelligent and given her a touch of snark or spark. She was just a little too bland for me, as written. It's a shame. I also agree that putting in Tom as a replacement nurse made no sense. Harry would have made a good nurse imo.
I think Kes would have benefited from having an encounter with a Q, where she would learn that the reason why Ocampa have short lifespans was because the Q altered them to have extremely short lifespans as a result of their bloody history, which, in turn, would result in them becoming a weak species who could never fulfil their potential (both technology-wise and mental ability-wise), thus showing one of many possible fates for humanity had Picard failed his many tests at the hands of Q. This would give her an arc all throughout the show of her own where she tries to convince the Q to return the Ocampa their old life spans back, which are in human range. I realize this would be too similar to Picard's journey throughout The Next Generation, but it would at least connect to a constant theme that was present in the same era that started the era Voyager was on, while also giving Kes and her species a more important and prominent role in the story. Kes and the Ocampa would actually receive small boosts to their youth spans across Voyager, which would help explain why and how Kes gets to stay as young-looking on the show. For those wondering, the Q would be entirely different compared to the one The Next Generation crew encountered, you could even have the Q in question be a she for those that are intrigued by the idea. I had to post this twice already on this and another thread. Edit: I posted this on the other thread and this one because for some reason the number of replies was still the same, now they've gone up to include my replies. I'm still keeping them up, though.
I was raised on Voyager reruns by my Trekkie parents- Voyager was my mom's favorite, and she wanted her daughter to have a well-rounded, strong female role model like Janeway to look up to. To this day, Voyager is my favorite Trek, and Janeway is both my favorite captain and one of my all-time favorite characters. Watching her as a toddler made me realize that science wasn't just the domain of boys, and I'm not sure if I would be where I am now, going to school to become a paleoanthropologist, without seeing her. Also, Voyager was the subject of the first fanfiction I ever wrote (at age seven), where Janeway and Chakotay got together, and I 100% stand by that plot. J/C forever.
I actually like Janeway as a captain and think she does belong with the list of great captains but i still think Voyager is mostly a bad written mess with wasted potential and promise for the amount of shining examples we have of what could have been given several gems of creativity and thought provided by the show.
Thanks for this! I tend to agree on every aspect, except I think Janeway deserves a little more praise for having arguably the most challenging choices and consistently making good overall decisions with them.
I personally really liked Kes! I felt like her character did a really good job accentuating the best qualities out of the rest of the cast. She was a foil to a lot of characters; Janeway, the doctor, and Tuvoc, and I don't think Voyager would be quite the same without her. Because she was more a civilian that lived on the ship then an actual member of the crew, I think that's why other characters were able to act in different ways. Janeway was sweet and almost mother-like when talking with Kes, and I really enjoyed seeing that part of Janeway when she was usually focused on being a headstrong captain for her crew (which is just as equally cool to watch, but seeing different sides of Janeway was fun). Kes was a major part of the Doctor's character growth as well. I think the reason why the writers had Kes as a nurse was for the doctor and Kes to learn from each other. The doctor was not good at all with talking with his patients in the beginning, and Kes was one of the people who helped him understand the importance of socializing and empathy the most. She encouraged the doctor to learn new things, and she believed he was more than his programming. I feel like the doctor almost learned more from her than she did from him. And I really enjoyed seeing Kes's interactions with Tuvoc. Being a Vulcan, there are times where I found it hard to learn more about him when he was so blunt. But with Kes, the audience not only gets to learn about Kes's abilities, but more about how Vulcan's abilities work as well. And Tuvoc mentioned how he had a family with two(?) sons at home, and I always wondered how Vulcans would treat their offspring and show affection. Even though Kes wasn't a Vulcan, I feel like her apprentice role showed how Vulcans would teach their children and how they would act when caring about someone (platonically). And I hear a lot about how the viewers say that the writers of star trek "didn't know where to go with Kes" and "Kes's potential was squandered". Maybe that's the case. I have only just come across this view, and I'll have to think about it more. But I always thought she was pretty well written. I thought the "uncertain aspect" of her character was appealing. She had the potential to go many places in life, and she didn't know where she was going to go, and sometimes questioned what she wanted in to do in life. The episode where she started aging rapidly showed how one of the futures she could possibly have was marrying Tom Paris and raising a family. Or that one episode where she almost decides to leave the ship with another alien (forgot the episode) because she felt like it was important for her personal growth, but in the end, decided to stay on voyager because she wasn't quite ready yet. I remember Janeway telling Kes how she and the crew would support her decision to leave the crew, but until then, she would always have a home on Voyager. That scene was so sweet to watch. To me, she felt like a young character in the process of growing up and developing her own wings, learning from the more experienced people around her, until she was able to grow up and leave on her own and choose one of the many directions she could go in life. And when she was written off and 7of9 was introduced, I thought they wrote her off with dignity, and her character arc came to a satisfying conclusion. The only thing I didn't really like was her relationship with Neelix. Kes felt really child/teen/young adult coded, and it was kinda creepy seeing her date someone who felt and looked a lot older than her. And I felt like Neelix's character suffered when he was dating Kes. He was the self assigned "morale officer", but a lot of the times he would start conflict over his jealousy over Kes making friends with Male crewmates on voyager, and I found that really annoying to watch, and painted Neelix in a more negative light. And now that I think about it, Kes's powers did seem to get a bit overpowered near the end. Welp. I'll have to think more about this. But overall, I really liked Kes.
@@TheBest-sd2qf I agree with this. I also agree that he was a better vulcan than spock in my opinion. Spock dove into emotions. But Tubok was always sooo soooo careful with his wording and his dealings with emotions. He always made it clear where he stands emotion wise.
Pretty much sums up why I like her lol, not the best character but she was so kind and I think that's pretty admirable of her. The amount of compassion she had, and also her innocence was cute :D
would love to see a whole video on why "Bride of Chaotica" is the best Trek holodeck episode of any series, and in the top five of all Trek episodes of any theme, bc it was a very rare example of a self-aware Trek poking fun at itself
I've never felt so validated in this fandom in my life, it's always so hard to find people that genuinely like Voyager, it's not perfect but it was and still kinda is my favourite, and damn I'll defend it, so thanks for all your great points.
I personally love voyager more than the rest too. Enterprise was pretty good too though. Deep space 9 had a lot of boring going on but when it was good it was really good too. But above all voyager was my fav. Capt. Janeway really made it feel like you were there and everyone was part of the crew. Voyager did not get the props it deserves because too many people are stuck in the past and think a female should not call the shots. Our civilization in real life has been held back sooooo many decades and possibly centuries because POC and females are not considered as important or as smart as others. What a shame.
Voyager is my favorite ST series. It was my introduction to ST. I used to watch it every day after school with my dad. I have a super special place in my heart for Janeway especially as I hadn’t come across a woman in charge in sci fi before. I’m watching it with my husband on Netflix now and rediscovering how much I love it. I think Janeway and Chakotay should have ended up together. Just bc a woman is the leader doesn’t mean she can’t have a personal life and quite frankly if they were going to be travelling home for 70yrs, Voyager was going to need to be a generational ship. Who better to model that then the captain? Man I love this show
Ohh, you should have mentioned B’lanna’s mini arc where she is traumatized over her survivor’s guilt when she finds out her old rebel friends are all dead. That felt...weirdly realistic as far as mental health issues in Star Trek, and I was impressed at its inclusion and how it lasted more than one episode.
Also, my 7 of 9 made me cry moment is when she tells the old dead earth astronaut who won the World Series or whatever before they shoot his coffin into space 😭
lasting more than one episode was unique and rare for the show, hence why it’s not regarded as well as say DS9 that came out at the same time, after seeing how DS9 was able to carry character arcs, and development across seasonal arcs and etc. giving them proper time to be flushed out compared to voyagers almost 100% status quo each episode story telling is why the show is a mess and never caught on among other things.
@@mckenzie.latham91 Please point to the rule where Star Trek can only be of good quality when it adopts the format of a soap opera. It's most beloved and famous episodes do not do this. Star Trek at its best is telling hour long, self contained sci fi stories and character studies, just like crime dramas at their best tell hour long, self contained murder mysteries. Voyager was able to balance this well.
@@mckenzie.latham91 too bad that the only plus of ds9 is the character development, even tho a few worked... They could have tried to write some good story driven scripts instead and not bs us with the prophets and the dominion for 7 seasons
Voyager is much more family than the other shows. The side characters are always in and between and mostly the same actors throughout the show. I have always bonded more with them than with any other crew.
Thank you so much for defending this series! It is actually in my top two favorites in the entire Star Trek lineup and it deserves so much more credit than it gets. As for Janeway being written as tough vs mean I actually think that, overall at least, the series did a pretty good job of showing a different kind of strength than most tough female characters. She can be hard on the crew but even when she's chewing someone out it more often comes in disappointed looks and quiet regret and you see the crew respond to that. She doesn't need to yell at or berate them and I definitely got a strict but fair mom vibe. So much of her strength comes from her compassion and her protective nature over the people she leads and I like that we saw her be human and soft and feminine without it turning into a storyline where people question her authority because of it. I felt like she was allowed to be feminine and still strong and intelligent while also not being hypersexualized. There are, of course, some exceptions where you can tell in one or two episodes that someone took over writing for her and the portrayal gets a little inconsistent but I feel like through the majority of the series she was a well rounded character that subverted the idea that she had to be unfeeling and cruel to be strong. She's honestly my favorite Star Trek captain.
@@harmonetheanimationaddict4419 He's a good character in that he's written well, but as a person he's a dirty snake and so it's satisfying when he gets hurt.
@@harmonetheanimationaddict4419 The fandom? That was one person. I would second what the other person said that he's a great villain, but he's still a villain.
My favorite episode is the one where they get caught in the atmosphere of that time-distorted planet where each second on Voyager equals a day on the planet's surface. What a great episode (yes, I know it was based on a TOS ep.), and I'm also intrigued by the fan theory that the inhabitants of that planet evolved into the Q Continuum. Voyager has so many episodes that have stood the test of time.
There's a theory that they become the Q? Wait, that makes so much sense! Who else would become the Q that a species evolving and developing at such an accelerated rate
I really like it. I watched it as a teenager and researched it Resently. Absolutely loved it. The premise of having to fight for yourself in an unknown part of the universe. Not being able to call for backup from the Federation Needing to find materials to restock and repair the ship making deals finding allies.
I made a life rule along time ago. "Don't sweat the small stuff". I watch star trek to entertain me, knowing these actors work hard to entertain me. I accept it for the story they are telling and not stress small continuity errors. I have watched every episode of star trek. I like it all. Just enjoy the story or change the channel, In my opinion.
I always felt like if Janeway had a penis there wouldn’t even be an argument. She gets shit done gives no fucks and goes down with her ship, like a real goddamn captain. No one’s better.
I’m into season 5 of Voyager and honestly, the core concept of this series is so compelling that VOY would work and even excel as a stand-alone series if the idea were removed from the overall Star Trek universe. The journey home trope truly pulls its weight throughout the seasons.
I agree. While some episodes were just bad, on the whole they mixed things up a bit and weren't afraid to take some risks. It kept trek from being stale.
It's so easy to see how much drama there was behind the scenes. Not just actors, but in the writer's room and with producers trying to throw their weight around.
@@animateddepression Yeah definitely. Early TNG had the same problems. I think the reason later TNG and DS9 as a whole (although S1 of DS9 is rough at times) are so awesome is because the show runners, producers, and writers were all on the same page. By the time Voyager was being developed there were a ton of troubles behind the scenes. DS9 mostly avoided the struggle by having a very independent writing team who more often than not told Berman to screw off. TNG ended before the craziness started. Voyager caught the brunt of the chaos behind the scenes.
As an indigenous person, I have mixed feelings about Chacotay. On one hand, it’s nice that there is leading role representation of indigenous peoples and the importance of spirituality and culture to many of us. And it was interesting to see how future tech might be incorporated into traditional culture, especially in relation to spirituality. On the other hand, his representation is monolithic and bolsters the common view that all indigenous cultures are the same. While in the future, and while indigenous cultures influence each other a grow closer in some ways, it’s still a poor representation. So yeah. Mixed bag. But hell, considering we constantly get ignored at every turn in social discourse, it’s still kinda nice to be recognized as more than just a sports mascot even if the representation is shoddy
Also the guy they hired to help them design the character wasn't even indigenous. They didn't know that at the time, but he was running a kind of fake cultural consultant scam on a bunch of people. I agree that we can and should give them points for trying where so many others just don't try at all, but the attempt was deeply flawed in a host of ways.
I just think he embodies so much of the laziest stereotypes of Natives in mainstream fiction, particularly stereotypes around Native men. He’s stoic, macho, violent, and filled with vague new age “spirituality” that is without fail used to further the emotional development of the non-Native characters. Star Trek to me has always been about progressive representation, and to see the ball fumbled so hard on Indigenous peoples in a way that’s never been corrected is painful for me
They had to make a tough decision. Chakotay could either be a member of an actual tribe, which means they'd have to do research and try to be accurate or else it would offend that tribe, and it would instantly exclude everyone from all of the other tribes. Or they could make him a generic Native American and hope that all of the real indigenous peoples of the world would find something about him to identify with. I think they made the right decision.
His character was definitely portrayed wrong, but to be fair that's happened a lot in Star trek, they have a very British captain who's supposed to be French. And it's hard to say how culture will change in a few hundred years.
@@trendy_gwendy I didn't think his personality (stoic, macho, violent) was related to him being Native, because I don't view Native Americans as having all the same personality.
You know what? _You know what??_ Yeah! Voyager is good, actually! I always had a soft spot for it because it was the first Trek show I jumped in on at episode 1 (I always missed the start and came into other Trek shows somewhere in the middle), and I love the design of the ship--but recently I went back and rewatched it with the approach of "I'll just skip the bad episodes/watch the episodes I remember being good/sound interesting", and I have to say, I ended up watching a lot more episodes than I expected, skipping less each season, and I really enjoyed it. You know what? As much as I love that television has moved away from episodic stories, in hindsight, the ability to skip bad episodes and miss absolutely nothing kinda works in Voyager's favor.
I got into watching Voyager in my late teens when I could stay up late enough and regularly enough. Reruns came on after the late shows and were sequential so I found it easy to fallow along. I got really into it after a while and followed the series to the end. I didn't really get into TNG or DS9 until later. After watching the entirety of all three series I concluded that I really can't decide which is my favorite. I like to think of them as one great big story I guess. I found enterprise tolerable.
B'Elanna is my favourite character. Her fire warms and scolds and overcomes what might have been a tragic destiny. Tom Paris is the character I most envy.
I know right? TNG, DS9 and VOY are my all time favourites when it comes to classic Star Trek. One might like one series over another (for me TNG is the absolute best) but in general it's all true Star Trek which I really enjoyed.
Voyager is what really turned my wife into a Trek fan (DS9 solidified it). They are like family to us. After going through the whole 7-year run (for the 3rd time), I have come to the conclusion that what really made the show, more than any other character... was Captain Janeway. Yes, her behavior was sometimes erratic and changed according to what the script required, but remember the writers were walking a tightrope in the 90's - couldn't make her too strong (overbearing b*tch), or too weak (p*ssing off progressives). But she IS one of the great captains, who cares for her crew yet makes the tough decisions. And Kate Mulgrew really SELLS her. I now appreciate Kate's superb acting more than ever, and realize she was the lynchpin of the show.
I also wanted to add: An episode I recently watched called "Extreme Risk". I never cared too much for B'ellana Torres until I watched this episode (for the 3rd time...). In case you are not aware, Torres is acting out more and more risky behavior. When confronted by Tom, she admits that she feels... NOTHING. She was taking all the risks to feel something, ANYTHING. I had recently felt that way, and because I am married I felt guilty, as if I was not a good man or husband for feeling (NOT feeling) this. The episode made me think... it's a HUMAN thing, it happens... get over it and move on, you DO love your wife, this is just a funk. Thank you, Roxanne...
In my opinion DS9 is the best Trek show. It's literally a reenactment of WWII in space. Loved every minute of it. And, the cast was amazing. And yes, I loved Voyager as well. The EMH is my favorite character in Voyager.
The lack of promotions for Harry Kim had more to do with his actor, really. Garrett Wang tried to do story suggestions and was completely shot down by the producers, if I remember right.
I just started Voyager a few days ago. I'm a huge Trek fan and admittedly was turned off to Voyager after hearing so many complaints on the internet. I realize how dumb that is though and being a huge Trek fan I need to at least watch and judge for myself.
There is some seriously poor writing every now and then but the majority of episodes are great as a whole. The women are not written well in my opinion as a woman, but the other characters shine so bright and some of the plots are so entertaining that I think it makes up for it well enough.
This is me and my wife with discovery. I didn't care until I saw all the hate cause "captain is Womz" and then I had to watch it, cause Janeway was an.... Alright captain
I grew up with it so I always felt like I was biased; but I never really understood why Voyager caught so much flack as TNG had so much more weirdly "un-treky" episodes.
I'm always disappointed when people remember Seven as nothing more than eye candy, she had the best development in Voyager imo. (But seriously, why is this efficient woman going on away missions in four inch heels, that did always stick out to me)
@@JanMichalSzulew Picard season 3 was great. Spoiler... I like when Seven says she wants to resign, and Tuvok plays a message from Captain Shaw that says that Seven can be reckless but is brave and "the book that she writes is going to be great", and suggests she be promoted to Captain when they return to port. And Tuvok says, "Resignation denied, Captain."
I never knew Voyager's first three seasons were so hotly debated until a few years ago. I'm glad my family maintained a separate Trekkie fandom away from the internet.
Exactly. It was always my favorite. Then I looked it up online and saw a bunch of haters picking on stupid things. Do you know how much I could destroy the other Trek shows if I wanted? Have people SEEN TOS? But I'm nice.
@@Wraiths_and_Wreckage It's like the people bitching about Discovery and Picard now. Every single show, not just Trek, is going to have problems, but it's compounded by the fact that Trek spans hundreds of episodes across several spinoffs and movies, novels, comics... It's a giant web no one at all could possibly keep up with 100%.
@@PatsyClinesDaughter We've been poking away at it and she loves it. Its fun to rewatch it and connect more closely to a different character than when I was younger.
Thank you SO much for this and well done! I adore Voyager and DS9. They both easily surpassed TNG for me. Loved your exploration of the characters and their different relationship dynamics. Bravo! BTW...I agree...TNG ruined the Borg, not Voyager and I too shed a tear when One refused the doctor’s help. 😢
Damn, I hate this channel, challenging my formed concepts from twenty five years ago, now I have to re-watch 7 seasons of voyager.....I have things to do man!
If you watched it all those years ago, you already know who the characters are & their back-stories and can skip the 1st two seasons w/ Kess' annoying character arc & focus on seasons 3+ when the show came into its stride... :t
@@nunyabidniz2868 Did you not watch the video you're commenting on? The first two seasons had some great episodes - I actually think Season 1 of Voyager is the strongest first season of a 90s era Trek show.
For what it's worth, my poor perceptions of Voyager changed immediately after watching Discovery and Picard. I went back and watched Voyager and absolutely adored it after those edgy dumpster fires.
I too watched it as it came out, but I really don't feel that the video addressed the central problem with voyager - 0 character growth (well, nearly 0; Seven & the Doctor thankfully managed to force the writers into letting them evolve). When a main character like Harry Kim gets less character growth than third tier characters like Nog & Rom in DS9, it leaves you thinking what could have been with better writing - specially as the premise was so compelling. Sure it's got good individual episodes, but ultimately it's less than the sum of it's parts & that's a problem this video unfortunately fails to address.
I just seemed so secured and at home in his skin. Sure there were moments when he was uncomfortable, but he never had to prove his Vukcaness to anyone or himself and he was able to learn and see the good points others made that didn't think like him
I’ve always viewed the “why is the number of torpedoes inconsistent?” complaint as less nerdy, overzealous fans nitpicking over the minutiae of lore and more illustrative of the larger issue with the show never really embracing its premise to the fullest of its potential. The big sell of the show is that this is a federation ship stranded on the other side of the galaxy with no backup and limited resources... which is somewhat undermined when they seemingly have an unlimited number of torpedoes (and shuttlecraft) to throw at any threat they come across, and are somehow able to hit a reset button between episodes to undo any damage they may experience from week to week. I just feel it would have been far more interesting in the long run if bits of the ship did start falling off, and other alien bits had to be added on, maybe have a ship of Theseus situation where the Voyager that returns to Earth isn’t even really the same ship that left. And hey, running out of torpedoes would have been the perfect premise for an episode where Janeway has no choice but to put her sense of ethics to one side because she has to trade with a nefarious arms dealer, or something. I don’t hate Voyager, I don’t think it’s an awful show. My opinion is that it’s a Trek series with an extraordinary premise, but continually settles for being ordinary in its execution.
John Graves - kind of, yeah. Similarly, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that, following what he considers a terrible experience in the Voyager writers room, the first thing Ronald D Moore did after leaving the franchise was the Battlestar Galactica reboot.
Every time a shuttle craft explodes or gets lost I think “How many are we down to now??” It’s kind of implied that they keep building new ones, but never really stated. When Paris wants to build the Delta Flyer, Tuvok says they have a full inventory of shuttlecraft. How?? Haha.
I guess I never took it to seriously because in the Federation the only currency is energy. If a ship has the power to run the replicator can't it fabricate whatever it needs? And yes sure there are some thing that they can't replicate because the plot demanded it. Like DS9's episode scavenging for parts on Empok Nor. But if they can build a torpedo casing and only need to harvest the.... photons???? To make the actual warhead is it so hard to believe that they can do that?
@@endeavour3d He did, but... Michael Piller and Ira Steven Behr were able to overcome Berman's cowardice in DS9... Brannon Braga and (once DS9 was over and he was writing for Voyager a bit) RDM coulda fought harder on VOY.
Every time I feel down, I construct in my head a off grid colony inspired by Voyager. It's hard to explain, but I do draw down the entire colony kind of cooperative homestead. Thanks to this I've learn a great deal about computers, technology in general, hydro-aero-aquaponic systems, solar generating and storage, liquid based batteries, composting, water purification, different building construction techniques, cooking, open source software and hardware and many more.
I haven’t even watched yet and I cannot thank you enough! Best Star Trek series in my opinion and it makes me sad more people don’t connect with it. The strong female characters were so valuable and important to me ❤️ thank you!!!
Also to be noted: my parents watched all the treks in the 90s, and as a little girl I gravited to VOY most because of all the central female characters. Seeing a captain that looked like me was important to me. I'm sure wasn't the only little girl that felt that way.
Even as a boy, I thought it was cool to see a strong woman kick ass like Janeway did in voyager. Just like Kira nerys in DS9, Janeway was an awesome, capable, competent character to be liked and respected just like Picard or sisko, and looked up to her just as much as I looked up to them. They were all competent captains, scientists, explorers, strong, curious, yet all flawed and human, but striving to be their best selves. What star trek should be about really. And yes Kate mulgrew played her really wel. Confident, curious, headstrong, brave, cautious, etc. If you haven't already you should look at the initial casting tests of the first pilot episode and see the other actrice they first had lined up (Genevieve Bujold). Great performance too, but completely different vibe of captain. She portrayed her as much more soft, cautious, introvert, held back, etc. Would have made a completely different captain and probably different show! Mulgrew did a great job in portraying a Starfleet captain, no matter she was a she.
I grew to adulthood in the chauvinist fifties, so early trek both gave me hope and disappointed me. I loved it because it gave me hope of change from chauvinism and bigotry, though it failed, it was transitional. Yuppy Gen lost me before the first year was up, though the captain and Data were stuffed with potential. Ya, i caught up eventually, with faves like the Flute and Measure of a Man, but failed to live up to my greatest hopes. DS9 was great! Until it wasn’t. But it too had a few favorite episodes. Then Voyager, oh my. So many favorites and yet such human flaws in the writers. I still love the characters, and so many great episodes, including one i can no longer watch for its final line about a hope filled earth, “ Where hatred knows no home.” I could not bare that line in the midst of our own horrors of hate and ignorance, that still lingers on and on. Yes. The concept of Trek makes me want to hope, but reality makes that very difficult, and i fear for my grandchildren. My 3 year old son who watched those early Treks with his young mother, is now a grandfather, my daughter a mother of a 16 year old daughter. We all saw 50th birthdays and beyond, but Star Trek still lets me hope, if just a little, it must suffice.
I grew up with Voyager more than any other Star Trek film or series. The doctor was the most engaging character for me, and the episode with his hologram family--and the scene where he comforts his daughter as she dies--always breaks me!
Even more so than Kirk's Enterprise. Yeah, in TOS we hear all the time 'its five year mission' in the intro but they've always been in reach to the next starbase. They've never been cut off from the Federation like Voyager.
Voyager is 2 decades old now, it came out in a very different time. A time when having a woman captain was controversial and a lot of the hate for voyager is pretty sexist.
Having seen the original TV broadcast, my opinion is that DS9 was just more interesting than a plot line about a stranded ship. I'm a believer in the Star Trek fatigue theory.
I grew up watching the original series with my mom, the next generation after school in syndication, but Voyager was the first series I saw from the beginning and felt like it was MY Star Trek
I've just finished the show and seeing you mention the first seasons, specifically "The Chute" just unlocked feelings I had completely forgotten I had for the show. I think focusing on Seven and The Doctor in the later seasons was a great decision don't get me wrong they're the best characters however, they're also the coldest characters in the show. Characters like Tom, Harry and Chakotay had a warmth to them that balanced out Janeway and Tuvok. The later seasons never had an episode like "The Chute" that was just a classic sci-fi story about doing everything to protect your friend against all odds. I think my biggest gripe with the show is with how they handled B'Elanna. I know Chakotay was kind of forgotten about but I don't think it's that weird for him to choose to stay with Starfleet. B'Elanna on the other hand should've had some desire to check in with the Maquis. When they had 1 on 1 videocalls near the end of the series, the writers only cared about B'Elanna's relationship with her father. WHAT ABOUT THE MAQUIS! Paris is supposed to be the one with daddy issues, B'Elanna is the one who inflicted self harm because of her survivors guilt as a Maquis. Also B'Elanna's relationship with Janeway and Chakotay was so interesting in season 1 and then it was just non-existent in later seasons. She only had a relationship with Paris and her Dad. She was one of my favourite characters but she just wasn't given enough love from the writers.
Janeway is my favourite Captain not in spite of her flaws but because of them. She is isolated from any higher command structure, riddled with guilt, overworked and stressed. Consequently she makes exactly the sort of batshit crazy decisions someone would when pushed to the limit, and she deals with the consequences of her bad decisions in later episodes. It is also referenced several times that Voyager has a terrible reputation in the Delta Quadrant for causing destruction and being self-serving. When people bring up her failings as a reason to dismiss the show entirely, my response is that her failings are what make her interesting. She is also an optimist at heart and never gives up.
To be fair Voyager's reputation was mostly unfounded, like when they thought Voyager had killed the Caretaker. And people had no way of knowing if they were a warship or they were just trying to pass through unscathed so they'd assume the former.
29:40 This is a complaint thats always sort of annoyed me. Here's the thing this isnt Lovecraft (thanks god) this is Star Trek. The Borg were never going to be this mysterious unknown scary adversary forever. Starfleet was going to learn as much about them as possible and eventually they'd be less scary. Sorry but thats not the kind of story Star Trek is telling.
That's a very good point, and I did like the Borg episodes of VOY mostly, but some of it was handled kinda "meh". The episodes with the Borg and 8472 were the peak....peek? Encountering an enemy that can completely overwhelm your WORST enemy is terrifying. It's tough to one-up that. But hey, we got 7 out of it.
Imagine Voyager spending an extended stay in Borg space, and then not learning jack shit about the Borg. People who complain about the Borg becoming less intimidating are oblivious to natural story progression. Voyager's torpedo's and Cargo Bay 2 were essentially assimilated, allowing them to study Borg tech up close. Seven of Nine's family ship had entire journals dedicated to Borg study, and just Seven's general knowledge of Borg stuff is more than anything the Enterprise D was able to get.
There's a level of complacency about the 'demystified" Borg. They're still an enormous and expanding power that the Federation couldn't hope to stand against if the Borg were serious about taking them. To the Borg the Federation is a tempting but still distant target that is not particularly special and the two attempts made to take Earth were half-hearted at best. A couple of victories and a bit of intelligence gained does not mean that the Borg threat is over.
The thing that surprises me most is how hard they have dropped the Borg since, they appear in a single episode of Enterprise, they didn't appear in any of the new ST movies, nor in Discovery so far (which really surprised me) and though there were Borg in Picard, they were just kinda there and weren't a threat.
People never mention Tom Paris as neuro-divergent but I think he is. He is spot on as a person with ADHD. He gets hyper-focused on projects he enjoys and finds a hard time with the mundane day to day. He is impulsive and struggles with controlling those impulses to the detriment of his career in Starfleet. Only after he is in a situation where he gets to have second chances and a be on a ship that is less rigid in its Starfleet rules can he be appreciated for who he is. ADHD people can be very creative and productive when given the chance. :)
"You are hurting me" Just hearing this or even thinking of it makes my heart hurt and I get tears. Seven, as stupid as it may sound, was my role model, along with Tuvok. I still, to this day, do the same little head tilt as a response to people who ask me a question where the answer is yes. And when I have anxiety, you'll always find my hands clasped, pointer fingers pointing outwards
@@CptEngage In a way, Voyager was the closest of the new shows to TOS. They both were set in mostly unfamiliar settings and were dominated by first contact situations. TNG and DS9 really pushed galactic politics to the forefront.
You introduced me and by proxy my friends to She-Ra, and it has fast become one of our favorite shows. So while maybe it feels like you're jumping into the lions den with these videos, know that they truly reach people like me and may introduce them to our favourite shows. Appreciate what you do, Leon! Keep it up! 🤗
Every time I go out for ice cream I order coffee flavored. And although no one ever asks, I say “Captain Kathryn Janeways favorite flavor was coffee, so it is also mine.”
You don't have a flavor of ice cream that you like because you think it tastes good? Or maybe it's just a coincidence and you also like coffee flavored ice cream.
Grew up on Voyager, watching a couple episodes every day with my mom. We've watched it maybe 3 times in my life? Every time it's been amazing. Janeway was a great role model and definately helped shape my idea of the ideal woman lol
I grew up watching Voyager so I have a soft spot for it, but it was really so powerful for a little girl to see a woman be captain on tv... Also, when I was a teen I was going through one of the worst period of my life and watching this show was a true lifeline, it helped me connect with my father when I most needed it. I related so much with Seven's will to integrate with others, and her managing to do that while still being herself was great to see. I love TNG and DS9 (and now Lower Decks) but Voyager was just able to connect with me on so many levels, and it will always have my heart
Finally someone on UA-cam to spread the truth. I've always thought it had one of the better premises (ds9 being the only other possibility for this title imho) and it has enough wonky campy weird stuff to keep me interested. I love it.
Oh, I'll agree that it has a spectacular premise. I hate the show because it squanders that premise so utterly. That's even demonstrated throughout this video. As he points out: the Maquis vs Starfleet angle is dropped, strong supporting characters like Suder and Seska are practically non-existent, the hard unsupported crawl through a dangerous quadrant is only glimpsed in Year Of Hell, and the way Janeway is written as if she were a totally different person from episode to episode.
TNG- Worf must suffer! DS9-O' Brien must suffer! Voyager-Kim must suffer! Enterprise-Trip must suffer! And that's as far as I can go since I have not seen the new shows yet.
Wasn't "Reed must suffer" in Enterprise? I mean, yeah, Tucker suffered, but it usually was his own fault (talking about before the Xindi arc when Enterprise suddenly became good of course)
@@leonardorossi998 Probably, I just remembered the ones with Trip; it's been a long time since I watched Enterprise. Maybe tomorrow night, I go through that journey again.
@@eacy7deacy that's just not true. Discovery is actually fairly good. Burnham is written fairly well, and though the whole red angel arc is lazy, it's portrayed well.
Shout out to the Delta Flyers podcast, the actors who played Tom and Harry went through Voyager reviewing the episodes and sharing behind-the-scenes stuff, and are now going through Deep Space Nine.
"Verified snack Harry Kim" made me laugh. Fantastic. I do wish they had kept up better on Torres' and Kim's friendship. I still felt it was there in later seasons, I just wish it was in the forefront more than the background. So seriously I would love to see a Star Trek series about an expedition to explore outside the galaxy being led by Captain Harry Kim. Also I freakin' love the "You got Kim'd" bit. Thank you. In her first season I think Seven got the focus because she was a new character that the writers could tell new stories with. In later seasons I really think it is Jeri Ryan's talent as an actress that attracted the focus she got. I think she did so well in the role. The same thing for the Doctor. Robert Picardo has fantastic on screen chemistry with the whole cast and his stand alone episodes tend to be great. Thanks for the great episode. All your work is great but these "is good actually" episodes are my favorite.
lol a show about kim's experiences as captain. That would be interesting. I get the feeling he would be very tempted to go off the record alot in the name of fellowship, as he was very emotional. That could be really good.
Janeway is my partner's favourite captain, so I will definetly make him watch this and hear the things said out loud he keeps repeating everytime we talk about star trek.
I've always had a strong Voyager bias because it was the first Trek series I watched, but I'm happy to see other people find it more "objectively" good. :)
Voyager was the series that introduced me to Star Trek, back in the day. I would watch it with my dad, back when it was first airing, and I fell in love. ❤ While I acknowledge that it has some inconsistencies and flaws, it will always hold a special place in my heart, and I will always love it. ☺️
It is! It's based on a book called The Dragon's Egg by Robert Forward which I read after watching the episode, it was a little weird but mostly a good read.
Voyager has its problems, but I love it. I love the characters. "Oooh, I love Harry! Oooh, I love the Doctor! Oooh, I love Janeway!" That was me for pretty close to every character featured. 😛
That was a fun video! Thanks for making it. Voyager is one of my go-to's for while I'm working on a project. I just like to live on Janeway's ship for a while.
I'm actually re-watching Enterprise right now bc I wanted to check if it was as disappointing as I remember, and I am on the verge of postulating " Star Trek: Enterprise is good, actually". T'Pol might have become my second-most-favorite Vulcan. I like Archer's rather informal style. I like the Vulcans as jerks. Shran.
@@QBG I hated the intro too... at first but then at some point in season 2 I realized that the intro song pairs well with intro video showing how far mankind has come so far. They show off the different methods mankind has used to explore our world and then end with showing that we're going to the Final Frontier, Space. It just felt very poetic and once I realized that it grew on me very fast
Darksteelhero Hot take, I actually love the intro. It’s different obviously. But the lyrics perfectly fit the theme of Enterprise and humanity taking its first steps into deep space.
Which is probably why the last episode ended the way it did; voyager passes through the wormhole and finds itself smack in the middle of about a dozen starfleet ships with Earth right in front of them. You can see everyone on the bridge dead silent with no one daring to speak, as if they can't believe their eyes - because they CAN'T. There has been so many "close calls" they're scared that if they open their mouth and say anything, for example, like reporting "It seems we're back in the alpha quadrant, Captain" or something, the illusion will shatter and they'll find out it's not real. Only when they're being actually hailed by starfleet command someone breaks the silence and speaks.
@@spacey_432 I loved "tuvix"..how was she supposed to handle the dilemma? I think it showed us one of her many sides, she could do whatever the situation required.
I completely agree with this review. You even pointed out things that I didn't know, and I've heard some of Garrett Wang's podcasts that he did like more than 10 years ago, I think
That is so perfect. 😆 I figured the Voyagers writers was influenced by Doctor Who to create a character named The Doctor in star trek. Brilliant. One of the Doctor's long lost "incarnation". 😉😂
@@alienlife7754 lmao it being boring is debatable. The thing I hate about it is that it's fricking terrifying for kids, my mum still feels super uneasy from daleks and I'm forever traumatised from weeping angels
I love Doctor Who, both classic and modern. Perhaps unwittingly, Roddenberry himself invented a "Doctor-esque" character in the form of Gary Seven. He had his companions Isis and Roberta, his servo was far cooler and more functional than the sonic screwdriver, he travelled widely in space and time, and the Beta 5 was something like the oft recalcitrant personality of the TARDIS. I really wish the proposed series had been picked up. That said, Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars novels probably did Seven and his team more justice than the series would have.
@@erinocelotl3578 I always appreciate being shown what true fear is in a safe, fictional environment. The scariest episodes of Doctor Who were the best ones.
I didn't really mind the way hostile species like the Kazon & the Vidiians disappeared later in the series. The way I looked at it Voyager was heading steadily towards the Alpha Quadrant and would eventually leave the territories of these early adversaries and enter the territories of new ones. It seemed consistent with what you would expect to happen.
Of course. I mean, Voyager was also fast af.
Finally a reasonable opinion on this. Thank you sir.
Kazons are just lame cardassians
I agree with this assessment in a lot of ways, and having just binged the show a few weeks ago it is interesting how one of the few indicators Voyager gives you progression is just that. They have passed out of a species' territory and therefore will be seeing them less. While it's not a very compelling way to build tension, I think it's a cool atmospheric touch that the series has. However I wished Voyager had found ways to build more rounded satisfying arcs without just being like, "bye bye Kazon and all the story building."
@@LUPART no it's actually always consistent with the area they're in. you even get an update that a treatment has been developed for the phage near the end, and getting that information to them required *work*.
One of the best shows ever made. This show helped me so much when I was in a horrible Heroin addiction. At times that I was depressed, at rock bottom, and had almost nothing to live for, I would watch Voyager and just be so happy. It’s more than a show to me
This is incredible.
Me, my middle school discovery that my life in the closet was really gonna suck for over 20 more years, and the Khan trilogy.
Leonard Nimoy and James Horner saved my soul! Idk what it is worth lukewarmly regarded trek (st3 is the most important film to me in this regard) serving so well as a backdrop to some hard living, but there it is!
Bless you! I hope you are doing well!
@@oS2006DE
Mom
All my
I'm
Hi 5.
Me too my friend.
Good old Voyager kept my mind off the sick a few shining times.
Respect.
The worst thing about binge watching a Star Trek series, is when it ends.
Oof. That hurts lol. But it's true
So true
Though the ending of Entreprise made me furious, in spite of how well they turned that show around
Binge the entire franchise, then by time you finish it'll be time to start over again.
I agree, BUT it makes starting the show over to relive how it began sometimes better than the first time watching it!
I think Voyager is actually the closest Trek to TOS. Hear me out:
Voyager, by being flung into the Delta Quadrant, brought the show back to the days where anything goes. Not just anything goes because Q says so, but just because noone has been out this far. The isolation from their home just opens up so many opportunities for creativity, just like with TOS. In TNG and DS9, we are playing in an established area of space. Sure there is plenty to see, and we do plenty of exploring, but there is a limit to how crazy you can go within Federation known space.
TOS was about a crew on a frontier, and in leiu of large seasonal arch's, TOS leaned into it's characters to dive head first into interesting ideas.
Among my favorite of these ideas is when Voyager encounters a planet where time moves much, much faster, and they are able to observe a civilization develop, unknowingly being a sort of symbol for them in the process. It's the kind of one episode plot that feels bigger than an episode, like the classic TOS style of beaming down to a Planet adorned with fog machines and governed by an interesting idea.
I'm just surprised that instead of seeing this side of Voyager, all the haters seem to look at the side that Voyager messed up on.
Superbly stated and you summarized exactly most fans love it!
This.
So much this!
Thank you.
Thanks for this, I am becoming a big Voyager fan.
You are entirely right and truly inspired
I agree. I loved this Trek series and the character Chakotay, the most underused XO in Star Trek history. In the end he was more Starfleet than Janeway!
Voyager is my fav. It was on during the darkest time of my life and became a bright spot for me. Seven and The Doctor are some of the best characters in Trek. In my opinion.
Agreed!! Fight on!
The Doctor and Seven's chemistry is so awkward, sexy, dynamic, and mutual, and they sang spectacularly together. Seven and Chicotay was contrived.
Chief O'Brian slander is not allowed
Totally agree!
Yes agree. but Icheb conclusion was not well done in Picard.
The doctor seems like he should come off as irritating, but somehow he ends up being sincere and relatable and one of the best characters in all of Star Trek.
He is irritating. The key is that you make an irritating character grating on the other characters, but not to the audience. The Doctor world like that.
I loved his snark.
That was the McCoy programmed into him
the doctor is by far my favorite character on the show.
That's what "Woolsey" from Stargate..
When I was younger, Star Trek was always two things to me. Firstly, is the idea that we're all on the same team. The second is that science is awesome. Voyager did not deviate.
I enjoyed it as the space adventure show it was at the time.
Hi Paul, finally someone has defined what the Trek' means to me, that I could never articulate.. "Space adventure," that's it.♥️
Trek doesn't lie - we're all equal and should be on the same team, but that's not in the interests of the 1% so we've not got there yet... This is why Trek has to exist in a post-capitalism future.
Also, science really IS awesome! 😁
❤ "We're all on the same team, and science is awesome" is my new house motto.
And thirdly.
7 of 9.
I thought it was the shit when i first saw it, but it seems like it has a ton of flaws that an older audience can’t overlook
Voyager is definitely my favorite Star Trek. It’s just got such a friendly, comforting feel to it; it feels like home. It was also the first Star Trek I watched when I was old enough to grasp the themes and characters fully, and Janeway was a really good role model for me as a little kid. It holds a lot of nostalgia for me and influenced me a lot.
Agreed, it does feel like home. 👍❤️
Janeway is the best captain in Star Trek and such a motherly figure, I adore her with all of my heart.
Same. Voyager is the very first adult show my dad introduced me to, I think I was five. I have such good memories of that show. It really does feel like home.
My wife and I have been rewatching Voyager recently and when we got to Equinox I realised how much wasted potential there was in just making it a two parter. Just imagine if the Equinox crew hadn't immediately betrayed Voyager and decided to travel home together. the writers could have easily stretched the Equinox story into a short multi episode arc(4-6 episodes IMO) where the Equinox crew endeared themselves to the Voyager crew and earned their trust through mutual cooperation only to have the Equinox crew turn around and stab them in the back! That would have made their betrayal that much more impactful and meaningful.
Herogin should've been 3 part. Equinox more than anything showed us that despite Janeway's sometimes questionable decisions it could've been much much worse.
I think its nice that the equinox crew are a dark mirror to the original crew and i like how both captains start to embody a bit more of eachother as the 2 parter goes on. I think the greater waste of potential is in how voyager as a series, specifically calls into question the prime directive. Its why so far, i think Blink of an eye is my favouriite episode. You see the effect of voyagers existence causing a whole society to develop with the common goal of reaching the stars instead of the stereotypical 'developing a religion' thing. I think it would have been nicer if the series did more of that and attempted to critically examine if there were merits to this approach. You could have the borg threat be the thing that incites discussion on whether we arm helpless civillizations to prevent Borg assimilation as it would constitute a less severe violation of the prime directive then allowing the Borg to assimilate them.
They could have stretched Equinox into an entire season
"Lost and found" episodes, ship and or crew
"False flag" destroy one and suddenly it reappears having warped away
"Cupid / High School strikes" again, all the relationships and shakeups of current relationships
Then the reveal... ON A SEASON FINALE!!
Dun, dun, DUN! LOL
I am all for it.
Year of Kazon (or 2)
Year of Vidiians
Year of Borg
Year of Hell
Year of Equinox
Year of Malon
Year of Hirogen
Did I forget any important?
I really loved Kes, even if the writing was bad, she was a kind and curious character and she didn't deserve so much hate
Me Too! She was not the one they wanted to fire, but a TV guide cover put her on the chopping block. She had some fantastic acting moments. I don't understand the dislike for her. It's NOT deserved.
Same, I liked her character , I don't particularly like the episode when she comes back either, angry n older etc, cos even at the end of it, she's just cold n not the character we liked at all, I would have rather us just not seen her again after "the gift"
Originally it way Harry Kim on the chopping block, til he was voted one of the top sexiest guys or Something like that, so Kes got the chop instead
I think Kes would have benefited from having an encounter with a Q, where she would learn that the reason why Ocampa have short lifespans was because the Q altered them to have extremely short lifespans as a result of their bloody history, which, in turn, would result in them becoming a weak species who could never fulfil their potential (both technology-wise and mental ability-wise), thus showing one of many possible fates for humanity had Picard failed his many tests at the hands of Q. This would give her an arc all throughout the show of her own where she tries to convince the Q to return the Ocampa their old life spans back, which are in human range. I realise this would be too similar to Picard's journey throughout The Next Generation, but it would at least connect to a constant theme that was present in the same era that started the era Voyager was on, while also giving Kes and her species a more important and prominent role in the story. Kes and the Ocampa would actually receive small boosts to their youth spans across Voyager, which would help explain why and how Kes gets to stay as young-looking on the show. For those wondering, the Q would be entirely different compared to the one The Next Generation crew encountered, you could even have HER, yes, HER be played by an actress for those that are intrigued by the idea.
A list of Kes' features and benefits:-
a} Kes was a potential Charles Xavier. She exhibits telepathy, (which on one occasion she employs as a weapon) ability as a live clairvoyant lookout, and very powerful telekinesis.
b} Kes was the ship's nurse; a role that both her emotional temperament and her physical profile were ideal for. Anyone reading this comment who is a nurse, will know that I don't really need to add anything else to this point, to emphasise Kes' value; especially when you consider some of the situations which *Voyager* got itself into.
When Kes left, Tom Paris had to take her role; and as much as I like Tom as a character, that was a job which should have been given to someone else. Nursing was Tom taking a bullet for the team, and doing something he disliked while screwing up his face into a smile for his patients. It was duty, but it was not fundamentally part of who he was.
c} Kes was a farmer (or harvester, at least) in the hydroponics bay, and if memory serves it was she who suggested the idea of the hydroponics bay to Janeway.
d} Kes was the first advocate for the rights of the Doctor as a sentient being. In-universe, she was instrumental in the Doctor's evolution from a surgeon bot to a suprano. We would not have the Doctor as we later knew him, if it had not been for her.
I always thought it was weird that they assigned Tom to sick bay after Kes left. He’s the main pilot, doesn’t he have enough to do? Aren’t there like 140 other crew members wandering around the ship that we have the potential to flesh out a little?
Kes was sweet. We have to remember she was only 1 year old when she joined the crew. You don't have time to become a hard person with a plethora of skills when you are only 1 year old and lived sheltered in an underground society. I see her as the Voyager Version of Wesley Crusher in TNG and Jake Sisko in DS9. A character that has to grow up.
Really, the only issue with Kes was how she was sent off.
It made absolutely no sense.
Kes as a character had potential had they changed things around a bit. Unfortunately, while she was sweet, that's all she was. It would have helped for her to appear just a bit more intelligent and given her a touch of snark or spark. She was just a little too bland for me, as written. It's a shame. I also agree that putting in Tom as a replacement nurse made no sense. Harry would have made a good nurse imo.
I think Kes would have benefited from having an encounter with a Q, where she would learn that the reason why Ocampa have short lifespans was because the Q altered them to have extremely short lifespans as a result of their bloody history, which, in turn, would result in them becoming a weak species who could never fulfil their potential (both technology-wise and mental ability-wise), thus showing one of many possible fates for humanity had Picard failed his many tests at the hands of Q. This would give her an arc all throughout the show of her own where she tries to convince the Q to return the Ocampa their old life spans back, which are in human range. I realize this would be too similar to Picard's journey throughout The Next Generation, but it would at least connect to a constant theme that was present in the same era that started the era Voyager was on, while also giving Kes and her species a more important and prominent role in the story. Kes and the Ocampa would actually receive small boosts to their youth spans across Voyager, which would help explain why and how Kes gets to stay as young-looking on the show. For those wondering, the Q would be entirely different compared to the one The Next Generation crew encountered, you could even have the Q in question be a she for those that are intrigued by the idea. I had to post this twice already on this and another thread.
Edit: I posted this on the other thread and this one because for some reason the number of replies was still the same, now they've gone up to include my replies. I'm still keeping them up, though.
I was raised on Voyager reruns by my Trekkie parents- Voyager was my mom's favorite, and she wanted her daughter to have a well-rounded, strong female role model like Janeway to look up to. To this day, Voyager is my favorite Trek, and Janeway is both my favorite captain and one of my all-time favorite characters. Watching her as a toddler made me realize that science wasn't just the domain of boys, and I'm not sure if I would be where I am now, going to school to become a paleoanthropologist, without seeing her.
Also, Voyager was the subject of the first fanfiction I ever wrote (at age seven), where Janeway and Chakotay got together, and I 100% stand by that plot. J/C forever.
Thank you so much for your comment. It’s so inspiring to me to hear that she inspired you to become that, and I’m crying right now lol. So amazing 😭😭
Janeway was how you write a strong female lead.
@@doublestrokeroll I don't think Stewart is a better actor than Mulgrew. A controversial statement, but there; I said it.
I actually like Janeway as a captain and think she does belong with the list of great captains
but i still think Voyager is mostly a bad written mess with wasted potential and promise for the amount of shining examples we have of what could have been given several gems of creativity and thought provided by the show.
Kate Mulgrew wrote a fascinating memoir, "Born with Teeth"
Best voyager character: the emergency command hologram
"Arm the photonic cannon."
I love him so much 😭
The emergency command hologram is one of the reasons I would choose the Doctor to be on my fantasy ship.
I absolutly agree. Probably best character development in all the series.
@@99baji99 A truly great actor.
Thanks for this! I tend to agree on every aspect, except I think Janeway deserves a little more praise for having arguably the most challenging choices and consistently making good overall decisions with them.
I personally really liked Kes! I felt like her character did a really good job accentuating the best qualities out of the rest of the cast. She was a foil to a lot of characters; Janeway, the doctor, and Tuvoc, and I don't think Voyager would be quite the same without her. Because she was more a civilian that lived on the ship then an actual member of the crew, I think that's why other characters were able to act in different ways. Janeway was sweet and almost mother-like when talking with Kes, and I really enjoyed seeing that part of Janeway when she was usually focused on being a headstrong captain for her crew (which is just as equally cool to watch, but seeing different sides of Janeway was fun).
Kes was a major part of the Doctor's character growth as well. I think the reason why the writers had Kes as a nurse was for the doctor and Kes to learn from each other. The doctor was not good at all with talking with his patients in the beginning, and Kes was one of the people who helped him understand the importance of socializing and empathy the most. She encouraged the doctor to learn new things, and she believed he was more than his programming. I feel like the doctor almost learned more from her than she did from him.
And I really enjoyed seeing Kes's interactions with Tuvoc. Being a Vulcan, there are times where I found it hard to learn more about him when he was so blunt. But with Kes, the audience not only gets to learn about Kes's abilities, but more about how Vulcan's abilities work as well. And Tuvoc mentioned how he had a family with two(?) sons at home, and I always wondered how Vulcans would treat their offspring and show affection. Even though Kes wasn't a Vulcan, I feel like her apprentice role showed how Vulcans would teach their children and how they would act when caring about someone (platonically).
And I hear a lot about how the viewers say that the writers of star trek "didn't know where to go with Kes" and "Kes's potential was squandered". Maybe that's the case. I have only just come across this view, and I'll have to think about it more. But I always thought she was pretty well written. I thought the "uncertain aspect" of her character was appealing. She had the potential to go many places in life, and she didn't know where she was going to go, and sometimes questioned what she wanted in to do in life. The episode where she started aging rapidly showed how one of the futures she could possibly have was marrying Tom Paris and raising a family. Or that one episode where she almost decides to leave the ship with another alien (forgot the episode) because she felt like it was important for her personal growth, but in the end, decided to stay on voyager because she wasn't quite ready yet. I remember Janeway telling Kes how she and the crew would support her decision to leave the crew, but until then, she would always have a home on Voyager. That scene was so sweet to watch. To me, she felt like a young character in the process of growing up and developing her own wings, learning from the more experienced people around her, until she was able to grow up and leave on her own and choose one of the many directions she could go in life. And when she was written off and 7of9 was introduced, I thought they wrote her off with dignity, and her character arc came to a satisfying conclusion.
The only thing I didn't really like was her relationship with Neelix. Kes felt really child/teen/young adult coded, and it was kinda creepy seeing her date someone who felt and looked a lot older than her. And I felt like Neelix's character suffered when he was dating Kes. He was the self assigned "morale officer", but a lot of the times he would start conflict over his jealousy over Kes making friends with Male crewmates on voyager, and I found that really annoying to watch, and painted Neelix in a more negative light.
And now that I think about it, Kes's powers did seem to get a bit overpowered near the end. Welp. I'll have to think more about this. But overall, I really liked Kes.
I loved Kes. I really think 7 and Kes could of both been on the ship ☹️ I don’t think there roles overlap too much like ugh
I agree for the most part. Her relationship with the doctor was the best aspect of her character, and quite important to the doctors arc
"I will always remember her fondly, as a child woman who ate bugs that one time" had me dying. Fantastic, 10/10
Voyager has such great moments and great characters that the low points are heartbreaking. Also Tuvok is the best Vulcan since Spock.
100 Percent THIS!
He is better than spock I believe.
@@TheBest-sd2qf I'm not sure about "better" but his character enriched Vulcans by a big deal. It was a great pleasure to watch him on Voyager
That's only like, 9 Vulcans.
@@TheBest-sd2qf I agree with this. I also agree that he was a better vulcan than spock in my opinion. Spock dove into emotions. But Tubok was always sooo soooo careful with his wording and his dealings with emotions. He always made it clear where he stands emotion wise.
"I'll remember her fondly, as the child-woman who ate bugs" 😆 🤣 😂
Pretty much sums up why I like her lol, not the best character but she was so kind and I think that's pretty admirable of her. The amount of compassion she had, and also her innocence was cute :D
@@erinocelotl3578 Not to mention how AWESOME she looked with long wavy hair later on!
Really sad what happened to Jennifer Lien afterwards...
would love to see a whole video on why "Bride of Chaotica" is the best Trek holodeck episode of any series, and in the top five of all Trek episodes of any theme, bc it was a very rare example of a self-aware Trek poking fun at itself
Our Man Bashir from DS9 is the best holodeck episode IMO.
@@BadAxeEntertainment…no…I know that things are subjective BUT it really is the Chaotica Arc that is the best holo stuff in trek
A rare example before _Lower Decks_ anyway.
2:15 I’m such a TNG nerd, I know which episodes the darker shades are without checking.
It's no mystery to me what the red one in season 7 is without checking. There's only one episode it could possibly be
@@michaelinlofiwithout searching imma go with code of honor
@@bongdarius333 Code of Honor is season 1. He was referring to the season 7 episode Sub Rosa, the one about Crusher's grandmother and the ghost.
I've never felt so validated in this fandom in my life, it's always so hard to find people that genuinely like Voyager, it's not perfect but it was and still kinda is my favourite, and damn I'll defend it, so thanks for all your great points.
My husband and I love it best too. ❤️
Same here. It's Star Trek made perfectly. It combined all that came before and did it well.
The gay & girls love Voyager.
I personally love voyager more than the rest too. Enterprise was pretty good too though. Deep space 9 had a lot of boring going on but when it was good it was really good too. But above all voyager was my fav. Capt. Janeway really made it feel like you were there and everyone was part of the crew. Voyager did not get the props it deserves because too many people are stuck in the past and think a female should not call the shots. Our civilization in real life has been held back sooooo many decades and possibly centuries because POC and females are not considered as important or as smart as others. What a shame.
Voyager is one of the strongest trek only outpaced by ds9 but only very slightly
Voyager is my favorite ST series. It was my introduction to ST. I used to watch it every day after school with my dad. I have a super special place in my heart for Janeway especially as I hadn’t come across a woman in charge in sci fi before. I’m watching it with my husband on Netflix now and rediscovering how much I love it. I think Janeway and Chakotay should have ended up together. Just bc a woman is the leader doesn’t mean she can’t have a personal life and quite frankly if they were going to be travelling home for 70yrs, Voyager was going to need to be a generational ship. Who better to model that then the captain? Man I love this show
Janeway is the main reason I don't watch the show. She has to be one of the most irritating actors ever.
@@toby9999you don't know what great acting is that's is your problem
Ohh, you should have mentioned B’lanna’s mini arc where she is traumatized over her survivor’s guilt when she finds out her old rebel friends are all dead. That felt...weirdly realistic as far as mental health issues in Star Trek, and I was impressed at its inclusion and how it lasted more than one episode.
Also, my 7 of 9 made me cry moment is when she tells the old dead earth astronaut who won the World Series or whatever before they shoot his coffin into space 😭
lasting more than one episode was unique and rare for the show, hence why it’s not regarded as well as say DS9 that came out at the same time,
after seeing how DS9 was able to carry character arcs, and development across seasonal arcs and etc. giving them proper time to be flushed out compared to voyagers almost 100% status quo each episode story telling is why the show is a mess and never caught on among other things.
@@mckenzie.latham91 Please point to the rule where Star Trek can only be of good quality when it adopts the format of a soap opera. It's most beloved and famous episodes do not do this.
Star Trek at its best is telling hour long, self contained sci fi stories and character studies, just like crime dramas at their best tell hour long, self contained murder mysteries.
Voyager was able to balance this well.
@@mckenzie.latham91 too bad that the only plus of ds9 is the character development, even tho a few worked...
They could have tried to write some good story driven scripts instead and not bs us with the prophets and the dominion for 7 seasons
@@histguy101 this. Voyager balanced it very well. Better than all shows that came before
Voyager is much more family than the other shows. The side characters are always in and between and mostly the same actors throughout the show. I have always bonded more with them than with any other crew.
Same here. 👍❤️
Same
Yup.
Thank you so much for defending this series! It is actually in my top two favorites in the entire Star Trek lineup and it deserves so much more credit than it gets. As for Janeway being written as tough vs mean I actually think that, overall at least, the series did a pretty good job of showing a different kind of strength than most tough female characters. She can be hard on the crew but even when she's chewing someone out it more often comes in disappointed looks and quiet regret and you see the crew respond to that. She doesn't need to yell at or berate them and I definitely got a strict but fair mom vibe. So much of her strength comes from her compassion and her protective nature over the people she leads and I like that we saw her be human and soft and feminine without it turning into a storyline where people question her authority because of it. I felt like she was allowed to be feminine and still strong and intelligent while also not being hypersexualized. There are, of course, some exceptions where you can tell in one or two episodes that someone took over writing for her and the portrayal gets a little inconsistent but I feel like through the majority of the series she was a well rounded character that subverted the idea that she had to be unfeeling and cruel to be strong. She's honestly my favorite Star Trek captain.
i’m so happy someone else seems to get her character the way i did growing up and still do!!
"Imagine if Gul Dukat perished in an explosion-"
*imagines it vividly and repeatedly*
Welp, now I know how the fandom feels about him.
@@harmonetheanimationaddict4419 He's a good character in that he's written well, but as a person he's a dirty snake and so it's satisfying when he gets hurt.
@@kenirainseeker539 I'd replace 'but as a person he's a dirty snake and so' with 'therefore'.
or getting punched during a tv interview
@@harmonetheanimationaddict4419 The fandom? That was one person. I would second what the other person said that he's a great villain, but he's still a villain.
"Fought a macrovirus, got assimilated... STILL got her crew home." Best line in this video!
I actually got emotional at this 😅
My favorite episode is the one where they get caught in the atmosphere of that time-distorted planet where each second on Voyager equals a day on the planet's surface. What a great episode (yes, I know it was based on a TOS ep.), and I'm also intrigued by the fan theory that the inhabitants of that planet evolved into the Q Continuum. Voyager has so many episodes that have stood the test of time.
What was the name of that episode?
There's a theory that they become the Q? Wait, that makes so much sense! Who else would become the Q that a species evolving and developing at such an accelerated rate
@@marketingwithwilliam Blink of an eye.
@@ChrisTheDuck20 nice profile picture lol
That episode is actually based on the book Dragon's Egg. Really cool idea.
I really like it. I watched it as a teenager and researched it Resently. Absolutely loved it. The premise of having to fight for yourself in an unknown part of the universe. Not being able to call for backup from the Federation
Needing to find materials to restock and repair the ship making deals finding allies.
I made a life rule along time ago. "Don't sweat the small stuff". I watch star trek to entertain me, knowing these actors work hard to entertain me. I accept it for the story they are telling and not stress small continuity errors. I have watched every episode of star trek. I like it all. Just enjoy the story or change the channel, In my opinion.
When my Trek friends would argue over who was the better captain Kirk or Picard I always loved Janeway.
I always felt like if Janeway had a penis there wouldn’t even be an argument. She gets shit done gives no fucks and goes down with her ship, like a real goddamn captain. No one’s better.
Kate Mulgrew is an absolute queen.
I honestly think I rank Sisko first, Janeway second, and Picard third.
@@dodiswatchbobobo except Ben MFin Sisko. No Captain has had to deal with the weight than man had hefted upon his shoulders
Sisko for me. But Janeway is definitely underrated.
I’m into season 5 of Voyager and honestly, the core concept of this series is so compelling that VOY would work and even excel as a stand-alone series if the idea were removed from the overall Star Trek universe. The journey home trope truly pulls its weight throughout the seasons.
I've always said Voyager has been unfairly maligned in the Trek Fandom. I adore Voyager.
I agree. While some episodes were just bad, on the whole they mixed things up a bit and weren't afraid to take some risks. It kept trek from being stale.
Me too. It's my favorite Star Trek series
It was my mom's fave.
It's so easy to see how much drama there was behind the scenes. Not just actors, but in the writer's room and with producers trying to throw their weight around.
@@animateddepression
Yeah definitely.
Early TNG had the same problems.
I think the reason later TNG and DS9 as a whole (although S1 of DS9 is rough at times) are so awesome is because the show runners, producers, and writers were all on the same page. By the time Voyager was being developed there were a ton of troubles behind the scenes.
DS9 mostly avoided the struggle by having a very independent writing team who more often than not told Berman to screw off. TNG ended before the craziness started. Voyager caught the brunt of the chaos behind the scenes.
As an indigenous person, I have mixed feelings about Chacotay. On one hand, it’s nice that there is leading role representation of indigenous peoples and the importance of spirituality and culture to many of us. And it was interesting to see how future tech might be incorporated into traditional culture, especially in relation to spirituality.
On the other hand, his representation is monolithic and bolsters the common view that all indigenous cultures are the same. While in the future, and while indigenous cultures influence each other a grow closer in some ways, it’s still a poor representation.
So yeah. Mixed bag. But hell, considering we constantly get ignored at every turn in social discourse, it’s still kinda nice to be recognized as more than just a sports mascot even if the representation is shoddy
Also the guy they hired to help them design the character wasn't even indigenous. They didn't know that at the time, but he was running a kind of fake cultural consultant scam on a bunch of people. I agree that we can and should give them points for trying where so many others just don't try at all, but the attempt was deeply flawed in a host of ways.
I just think he embodies so much of the laziest stereotypes of Natives in mainstream fiction, particularly stereotypes around Native men. He’s stoic, macho, violent, and filled with vague new age “spirituality” that is without fail used to further the emotional development of the non-Native characters. Star Trek to me has always been about progressive representation, and to see the ball fumbled so hard on Indigenous peoples in a way that’s never been corrected is painful for me
They had to make a tough decision. Chakotay could either be a member of an actual tribe, which means they'd have to do research and try to be accurate or else it would offend that tribe, and it would instantly exclude everyone from all of the other tribes. Or they could make him a generic Native American and hope that all of the real indigenous peoples of the world would find something about him to identify with. I think they made the right decision.
His character was definitely portrayed wrong, but to be fair that's happened a lot in Star trek, they have a very British captain who's supposed to be French. And it's hard to say how culture will change in a few hundred years.
@@trendy_gwendy I didn't think his personality (stoic, macho, violent) was related to him being Native, because I don't view Native Americans as having all the same personality.
"It will never be Pon Farr Night at the Vulcan night club." made me laugh more than it should have. LoL
I grew up with Voyager on UPN soo heck yes
Hercules, Xena, and Voyger were a perfect chaser to the sunday morning UPN cartoons
Voyager is the only Trek I watched from pilot to finale as it aired. It's got such warm nostalgia for me.
I watched the whole show on Horror channel while back,Scifi hour.
Same here!!!
Same!! We didn't have cable until I got a bit older, so that's what my Mom and I watched. Voyager and Xena the Warrior Princess.
You know what? _You know what??_ Yeah! Voyager is good, actually!
I always had a soft spot for it because it was the first Trek show I jumped in on at episode 1 (I always missed the start and came into other Trek shows somewhere in the middle), and I love the design of the ship--but recently I went back and rewatched it with the approach of "I'll just skip the bad episodes/watch the episodes I remember being good/sound interesting", and I have to say, I ended up watching a lot more episodes than I expected, skipping less each season, and I really enjoyed it.
You know what? As much as I love that television has moved away from episodic stories, in hindsight, the ability to skip bad episodes and miss absolutely nothing kinda works in Voyager's favor.
I got into watching Voyager in my late teens when I could stay up late enough and regularly enough. Reruns came on after the late shows and were sequential so I found it easy to fallow along. I got really into it after a while and followed the series to the end. I didn't really get into TNG or DS9 until later. After watching the entirety of all three series I concluded that I really can't decide which is my favorite. I like to think of them as one great big story I guess. I found enterprise tolerable.
Daxian Preston enterprise is definitely the worst of the originals, but even so, I can’t hate it too much. At least it’s not discovery
Voyager was actually my favourite series of Trek. It was glorious. 💜
B'Elanna is my favourite character. Her fire warms and scolds and overcomes what might have been a tragic destiny. Tom Paris is the character I most envy.
I'm watching this with auto-generated subtitles on, and it just interpreted "b'elanna torres" as "bologna toursits" and I'm crying with laughter
Title: Star Trek Voyager was good?
Me: Always has been 🔫
I know right? TNG, DS9 and VOY are my all time favourites when it comes to classic Star Trek.
One might like one series over another (for me TNG is the absolute best) but in general it's all true Star Trek which I really enjoyed.
@@blackwater4100 YESSSSS
Voyager is what really turned my wife into a Trek fan (DS9 solidified it). They are like family to us. After going through the whole 7-year run (for the 3rd time), I have come to the conclusion that what really made the show, more than any other character... was Captain Janeway. Yes, her behavior was sometimes erratic and changed according to what the script required, but remember the writers were walking a tightrope in the 90's - couldn't make her too strong (overbearing b*tch), or too weak (p*ssing off progressives). But she IS one of the great captains, who cares for her crew yet makes the tough decisions. And Kate Mulgrew really SELLS her. I now appreciate Kate's superb acting more than ever, and realize she was the lynchpin of the show.
I also wanted to add: An episode I recently watched called "Extreme Risk". I never cared too much for B'ellana Torres until I watched this episode (for the 3rd time...). In case you are not aware, Torres is acting out more and more risky behavior. When confronted by Tom, she admits that she feels... NOTHING. She was taking all the risks to feel something, ANYTHING. I had recently felt that way, and because I am married I felt guilty, as if I was not a good man or husband for feeling (NOT feeling) this. The episode made me think... it's a HUMAN thing, it happens... get over it and move on, you DO love your wife, this is just a funk. Thank you, Roxanne...
I agree
Voyager was always my favourite Star Trek show. Watching it feels like coming home.
Agreed. 😎👍
This.
People who actually watched Voyager: We know.
I watched voyager and i still say it’s a poorly written mess that has some shinning examples of creativity, promise, and thought
@@mckenzie.latham91 A few fantastic episodes in a sea of bland mediocrity.
@@miguelbranquinho7235 Medicore Star Trek is still above average TV
Haha
"Fun will now commence"
In my opinion DS9 is the best Trek show. It's literally a reenactment of WWII in space. Loved every minute of it. And, the cast was amazing. And yes, I loved Voyager as well. The EMH is my favorite character in Voyager.
The dominion war is the most epic Sci fi conflict to ever grace tv screens.
I grew up with Voyager and DS9, so I have a very deep and sincere appreciation of these shows in spite of their flaws.
When Paris was demoted. Kim being operations department head should have been able to get bumped up a rank since there was an open Lt. rank on board.
The lack of promotions for Harry Kim had more to do with his actor, really. Garrett Wang tried to do story suggestions and was completely shot down by the producers, if I remember right.
@@raptornugget5385 what was his problem with Wang? :(
I just started Voyager a few days ago. I'm a huge Trek fan and admittedly was turned off to Voyager after hearing so many complaints on the internet. I realize how dumb that is though and being a huge Trek fan I need to at least watch and judge for myself.
There is some seriously poor writing every now and then but the majority of episodes are great as a whole. The women are not written well in my opinion as a woman, but the other characters shine so bright and some of the plots are so entertaining that I think it makes up for it well enough.
This is me and my wife with discovery. I didn't care until I saw all the hate cause "captain is Womz" and then I had to watch it, cause Janeway was an.... Alright captain
I've never understood the Voyager hate. It's so good.
I grew up with it so I always felt like I was biased; but I never really understood why Voyager caught so much flack as TNG had so much more weirdly "un-treky" episodes.
@@8MercurySunrise8 I think 7 of 9 is probably the best written female character across all 3 of the 90's Treks.
The dialogues between Janeway and Seven about free will are awesome.
I'm always disappointed when people remember Seven as nothing more than eye candy, she had the best development in Voyager imo.
(But seriously, why is this efficient woman going on away missions in four inch heels, that did always stick out to me)
And then they flushed it all in the toilet with ST:Picard.
@@JanMichalSzulew Picard season 3 was great. Spoiler...
I like when Seven says she wants to resign, and Tuvok plays a message from Captain Shaw that says that Seven can be reckless but is brave and "the book that she writes is going to be great", and suggests she be promoted to Captain when they return to port. And Tuvok says, "Resignation denied, Captain."
The answer is Rick Berman
I never knew Voyager's first three seasons were so hotly debated until a few years ago. I'm glad my family maintained a separate Trekkie fandom away from the internet.
I'm of the opinion that the series really didn't get good until season 4. But there are some good episodes out of the first 3 seasons
Hahah me too ! My parents introduced me to it and thank god they did
Exactly. It was always my favorite. Then I looked it up online and saw a bunch of haters picking on stupid things. Do you know how much I could destroy the other Trek shows if I wanted? Have people SEEN TOS? But I'm nice.
The internet makes most things worse, as it turns out.
@@Wraiths_and_Wreckage It's like the people bitching about Discovery and Picard now. Every single show, not just Trek, is going to have problems, but it's compounded by the fact that Trek spans hundreds of episodes across several spinoffs and movies, novels, comics... It's a giant web no one at all could possibly keep up with 100%.
Fine I will go back and watch it! With my girlfriend too because she hasn't seen it. We're actually already two seasons in. IT's great.
If you enjoy the first few seasons, you're going to love the rest.
@@derekisthematrix Ive seen it all a few times, only my girlfriend is seeing it for the first time.
HighFlyActionGuy Come back and let us know how she likes it!!! I’ve been in love with Voyager for like 4-5 years now.
@@PatsyClinesDaughter We've been poking away at it and she loves it. Its fun to rewatch it and connect more closely to a different character than when I was younger.
im rewatching this video and the second "you got kim'd" gets me so hard even when i knew it was coming
Thank you for the Chakotay love. He deserves his flowers.
also thank you for the respect you show Neelix! I really appreciate your analysis here. Voyager is the best.
Thank you SO much for this and well done! I adore Voyager and DS9. They both easily surpassed TNG for me. Loved your exploration of the characters and their different relationship dynamics. Bravo! BTW...I agree...TNG ruined the Borg, not Voyager and I too shed a tear when One refused the doctor’s help. 😢
I found that VOY made the Borg interesting and really opened them up as an enemy rather than them just being ‘big bad guys’.
Damn, I hate this channel, challenging my formed concepts from twenty five years ago, now I have to re-watch 7 seasons of voyager.....I have things to do man!
If you watched it all those years ago, you already know who the characters are & their back-stories and can skip the 1st two seasons w/ Kess' annoying character arc & focus on seasons 3+ when the show came into its stride... :t
@@nunyabidniz2868 Did you not watch the video you're commenting on? The first two seasons had some great episodes - I actually think Season 1 of Voyager is the strongest first season of a 90s era Trek show.
For what it's worth, my poor perceptions of Voyager changed immediately after watching Discovery and Picard. I went back and watched Voyager and absolutely adored it after those edgy dumpster fires.
😂
I too watched it as it came out, but
I really don't feel that the video addressed the central problem with voyager - 0 character growth (well, nearly 0; Seven & the Doctor thankfully managed to force the writers into letting them evolve).
When a main character like Harry Kim gets less character growth than third tier characters like Nog & Rom in DS9, it leaves you thinking what could have been with better writing - specially as the premise was so compelling.
Sure it's got good individual episodes, but ultimately it's less than the sum of it's parts & that's a problem this video unfortunately fails to address.
Tuvok is one of my absolute favorite vulcans
I just seemed so secured and at home in his skin. Sure there were moments when he was uncomfortable, but he never had to prove his Vukcaness to anyone or himself and he was able to learn and see the good points others made that didn't think like him
Dude that episode where Tuvok gets emotional freaks me out. I seriously feel like he was into Neelix in that episode
I’ve always viewed the “why is the number of torpedoes inconsistent?” complaint as less nerdy, overzealous fans nitpicking over the minutiae of lore and more illustrative of the larger issue with the show never really embracing its premise to the fullest of its potential.
The big sell of the show is that this is a federation ship stranded on the other side of the galaxy with no backup and limited resources... which is somewhat undermined when they seemingly have an unlimited number of torpedoes (and shuttlecraft) to throw at any threat they come across, and are somehow able to hit a reset button between episodes to undo any damage they may experience from week to week.
I just feel it would have been far more interesting in the long run if bits of the ship did start falling off, and other alien bits had to be added on, maybe have a ship of Theseus situation where the Voyager that returns to Earth isn’t even really the same ship that left. And hey, running out of torpedoes would have been the perfect premise for an episode where Janeway has no choice but to put her sense of ethics to one side because she has to trade with a nefarious arms dealer, or something.
I don’t hate Voyager, I don’t think it’s an awful show. My opinion is that it’s a Trek series with an extraordinary premise, but continually settles for being ordinary in its execution.
John Graves - kind of, yeah.
Similarly, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that, following what he considers a terrible experience in the Voyager writers room, the first thing Ronald D Moore did after leaving the franchise was the Battlestar Galactica reboot.
Every time a shuttle craft explodes or gets lost I think “How many are we down to now??” It’s kind of implied that they keep building new ones, but never really stated. When Paris wants to build the Delta Flyer, Tuvok says they have a full inventory of shuttlecraft. How?? Haha.
This exactly. I enjoy Voyager for what it is, but nearly every episode makes you go "man, if only they..."
I guess I never took it to seriously because in the Federation the only currency is energy. If a ship has the power to run the replicator can't it fabricate whatever it needs? And yes sure there are some thing that they can't replicate because the plot demanded it. Like DS9's episode scavenging for parts on Empok Nor. But if they can build a torpedo casing and only need to harvest the.... photons???? To make the actual warhead is it so hard to believe that they can do that?
@@endeavour3d He did, but... Michael Piller and Ira Steven Behr were able to overcome Berman's cowardice in DS9... Brannon Braga and (once DS9 was over and he was writing for Voyager a bit) RDM coulda fought harder on VOY.
Every time I feel down, I construct in my head a off grid colony inspired by Voyager. It's hard to explain, but I do draw down the entire colony kind of cooperative homestead. Thanks to this I've learn a great deal about computers, technology in general, hydro-aero-aquaponic systems, solar generating and storage, liquid based batteries, composting, water purification, different building construction techniques, cooking, open source software and hardware and many more.
I haven’t even watched yet and I cannot thank you enough! Best Star Trek series in my opinion and it makes me sad more people don’t connect with it. The strong female characters were so valuable and important to me ❤️ thank you!!!
Also to be noted: my parents watched all the treks in the 90s, and as a little girl I gravited to VOY most because of all the central female characters. Seeing a captain that looked like me was important to me. I'm sure wasn't the only little girl that felt that way.
You're definitely not alone, I idolized Janeway as a kid, and I still have immense respect for her. Kate Mulgrew really owned that role.
A disturbance, i sense...
Even as a boy, I thought it was cool to see a strong woman kick ass like Janeway did in voyager. Just like Kira nerys in DS9, Janeway was an awesome, capable, competent character to be liked and respected just like Picard or sisko, and looked up to her just as much as I looked up to them. They were all competent captains, scientists, explorers, strong, curious, yet all flawed and human, but striving to be their best selves. What star trek should be about really.
And yes Kate mulgrew played her really wel. Confident, curious, headstrong, brave, cautious, etc. If you haven't already you should look at the initial casting tests of the first pilot episode and see the other actrice they first had lined up (Genevieve Bujold). Great performance too, but completely different vibe of captain. She portrayed her as much more soft, cautious, introvert, held back, etc. Would have made a completely different captain and probably different show! Mulgrew did a great job in portraying a Starfleet captain, no matter she was a she.
I grew to adulthood in the chauvinist fifties, so early trek both gave me hope and disappointed me. I loved it because it gave me hope of change from chauvinism and bigotry, though it failed, it was transitional. Yuppy Gen lost me before the first year was up, though the captain and Data were stuffed with potential. Ya, i caught up eventually, with faves like the Flute and Measure of a Man, but failed to live up to my greatest hopes. DS9 was great! Until it wasn’t. But it too had a few favorite episodes. Then Voyager, oh my. So many favorites and yet such human flaws in the writers. I still love the characters, and so many great episodes, including one i can no longer watch for its final line about a hope filled earth, “ Where hatred knows no home.” I could not bare that line in the midst of our own horrors of hate and ignorance, that still lingers on and on. Yes. The concept of Trek makes me want to hope, but reality makes that very difficult, and i fear for my grandchildren. My 3 year old son who watched those early Treks with his young mother, is now a grandfather, my daughter a mother of a 16 year old daughter. We all saw 50th birthdays and beyond, but Star Trek still lets me hope, if just a little, it must suffice.
Your not alone at all
"We ate 'em" is an appropriate response to a surprising number of questions, thanks Paris
Alien child: What happened to the oligarchs of your planet?
@@paradactyl3729 true for the dutch who ate their prime minister
"He toots, he toots real good" -Leon Thomas, 2020
I grew up with Voyager more than any other Star Trek film or series. The doctor was the most engaging character for me, and the episode with his hologram family--and the scene where he comforts his daughter as she dies--always breaks me!
Voyager is the only ship that actually was in an exploratory circumstance after Kirk's Enterprise.
Even more so than Kirk's Enterprise. Yeah, in TOS we hear all the time 'its five year mission' in the intro but they've always been in reach to the next starbase. They've never been cut off from the Federation like Voyager.
im a newbie trekkie and i love voyager-i was actually surprised to learn it's hated
Voyager is 2 decades old now, it came out in a very different time. A time when having a woman captain was controversial and a lot of the hate for voyager is pretty sexist.
Having seen the original TV broadcast, my opinion is that DS9 was just more interesting than a plot line about a stranded ship. I'm a believer in the Star Trek fatigue theory.
I grew up watching the original series with my mom, the next generation after school in syndication, but Voyager was the first series I saw from the beginning and felt like it was MY Star Trek
I named my daughter Annika. At age 8 she asked me why I named her after a robot. Shut up and watch young one. Be happy i didn't name you Entropy.
What?
To little Annika:
Be glad she did not name you Neelix!
:-)
an old grandpa
You could have been a Battlestar Galactica fan and named her "6." lol
You should have named her Satan's Robot
You should tell her Annika was a human that was assimilated, which won't happen to her if she limits her screen time and eats her vegetables
I've just finished the show and seeing you mention the first seasons, specifically "The Chute" just unlocked feelings I had completely forgotten I had for the show. I think focusing on Seven and The Doctor in the later seasons was a great decision don't get me wrong they're the best characters however, they're also the coldest characters in the show. Characters like Tom, Harry and Chakotay had a warmth to them that balanced out Janeway and Tuvok.
The later seasons never had an episode like "The Chute" that was just a classic sci-fi story about doing everything to protect your friend against all odds. I think my biggest gripe with the show is with how they handled B'Elanna. I know Chakotay was kind of forgotten about but I don't think it's that weird for him to choose to stay with Starfleet. B'Elanna on the other hand should've had some desire to check in with the Maquis. When they had 1 on 1 videocalls near the end of the series, the writers only cared about B'Elanna's relationship with her father. WHAT ABOUT THE MAQUIS! Paris is supposed to be the one with daddy issues, B'Elanna is the one who inflicted self harm because of her survivors guilt as a Maquis. Also B'Elanna's relationship with Janeway and Chakotay was so interesting in season 1 and then it was just non-existent in later seasons. She only had a relationship with Paris and her Dad. She was one of my favourite characters but she just wasn't given enough love from the writers.
Janeway is my favourite Captain not in spite of her flaws but because of them. She is isolated from any higher command structure, riddled with guilt, overworked and stressed. Consequently she makes exactly the sort of batshit crazy decisions someone would when pushed to the limit, and she deals with the consequences of her bad decisions in later episodes. It is also referenced several times that Voyager has a terrible reputation in the Delta Quadrant for causing destruction and being self-serving. When people bring up her failings as a reason to dismiss the show entirely, my response is that her failings are what make her interesting. She is also an optimist at heart and never gives up.
To be fair Voyager's reputation was mostly unfounded, like when they thought Voyager had killed the Caretaker. And people had no way of knowing if they were a warship or they were just trying to pass through unscathed so they'd assume the former.
"It was a mild shock, he will recover" Seven of nine.
"and when he does?"
"You are damaged"
Seven demonstrates how to punch someone through the internet.
How brave of you to say something so true, yet so controversial
29:40 This is a complaint thats always sort of annoyed me. Here's the thing this isnt Lovecraft (thanks god) this is Star Trek. The Borg were never going to be this mysterious unknown scary adversary forever. Starfleet was going to learn as much about them as possible and eventually they'd be less scary. Sorry but thats not the kind of story Star Trek is telling.
That's a very good point, and I did like the Borg episodes of VOY mostly, but some of it was handled kinda "meh". The episodes with the Borg and 8472 were the peak....peek? Encountering an enemy that can completely overwhelm your WORST enemy is terrifying. It's tough to one-up that. But hey, we got 7 out of it.
Imagine Voyager spending an extended stay in Borg space, and then not learning jack shit about the Borg. People who complain about the Borg becoming less intimidating are oblivious to natural story progression. Voyager's torpedo's and Cargo Bay 2 were essentially assimilated, allowing them to study Borg tech up close. Seven of Nine's family ship had entire journals dedicated to Borg study, and just Seven's general knowledge of Borg stuff is more than anything the Enterprise D was able to get.
I still found the Borg creepy and menacing in Voyager.
There's a level of complacency about the 'demystified" Borg. They're still an enormous and expanding power that the Federation couldn't hope to stand against if the Borg were serious about taking them. To the Borg the Federation is a tempting but still distant target that is not particularly special and the two attempts made to take Earth were half-hearted at best. A couple of victories and a bit of intelligence gained does not mean that the Borg threat is over.
The thing that surprises me most is how hard they have dropped the Borg since, they appear in a single episode of Enterprise, they didn't appear in any of the new ST movies, nor in Discovery so far (which really surprised me) and though there were Borg in Picard, they were just kinda there and weren't a threat.
People never mention Tom Paris as neuro-divergent but I think he is. He is spot on as a person with ADHD. He gets hyper-focused on projects he enjoys and finds a hard time with the mundane day to day. He is impulsive and struggles with controlling those impulses to the detriment of his career in Starfleet. Only after he is in a situation where he gets to have second chances and a be on a ship that is less rigid in its Starfleet rules can he be appreciated for who he is. ADHD people can be very creative and productive when given the chance. :)
Also adhd brains do extremely well in crisis.
"You are hurting me"
Just hearing this or even thinking of it makes my heart hurt and I get tears. Seven, as stupid as it may sound, was my role model, along with Tuvok. I still, to this day, do the same little head tilt as a response to people who ask me a question where the answer is yes.
And when I have anxiety, you'll always find my hands clasped, pointer fingers pointing outwards
I loved Voyager. The more futuristic and long space exploration feel of the show was what made it so great and different from other Star Trek shows.
Yes. This. In TNG it's always felt like they are pretty close to Earth. In Voyager you always know that there's a loooong journey ahead
@@CptEngage
In a way, Voyager was the closest of the new shows to TOS. They both were set in mostly unfamiliar settings and were dominated by first contact situations. TNG and DS9 really pushed galactic politics to the forefront.
You introduced me and by proxy my friends to She-Ra, and it has fast become one of our favorite shows. So while maybe it feels like you're jumping into the lions den with these videos, know that they truly reach people like me and may introduce them to our favourite shows.
Appreciate what you do, Leon! Keep it up! 🤗
Every time I go out for ice cream I order coffee flavored. And although no one ever asks, I say “Captain Kathryn Janeways favorite flavor was coffee, so it is also mine.”
There's coffee in that nebula!
You don't have a flavor of ice cream that you like because you think it tastes good? Or maybe it's just a coincidence and you also like coffee flavored ice cream.
Grew up on Voyager, watching a couple episodes every day with my mom. We've watched it maybe 3 times in my life? Every time it's been amazing. Janeway was a great role model and definately helped shape my idea of the ideal woman lol
I grew up watching Voyager so I have a soft spot for it, but it was really so powerful for a little girl to see a woman be captain on tv... Also, when I was a teen I was going through one of the worst period of my life and watching this show was a true lifeline, it helped me connect with my father when I most needed it. I related so much with Seven's will to integrate with others, and her managing to do that while still being herself was great to see. I love TNG and DS9 (and now Lower Decks) but Voyager was just able to connect with me on so many levels, and it will always have my heart
Finally someone on UA-cam to spread the truth. I've always thought it had one of the better premises (ds9 being the only other possibility for this title imho) and it has enough wonky campy weird stuff to keep me interested. I love it.
Can’t deny that the concept is a damn good one. I think I’ll give it another shot-I never did make it to the famed Seven of Nine, after all.
Oh, I'll agree that it has a spectacular premise. I hate the show because it squanders that premise so utterly. That's even demonstrated throughout this video. As he points out: the Maquis vs Starfleet angle is dropped, strong supporting characters like Suder and Seska are practically non-existent, the hard unsupported crawl through a dangerous quadrant is only glimpsed in Year Of Hell, and the way Janeway is written as if she were a totally different person from episode to episode.
@@MilkmanOfTheApocalypse Not to mention they never seem to run out of supplies in any meaningful way
Funny you should mention DS9 as DS9 was used to launch the show
I've always enjoyed Voyager, and I think Janeway was a fantastic captain.
TNG- Worf must suffer!
DS9-O' Brien must suffer!
Voyager-Kim must suffer!
Enterprise-Trip must suffer!
And that's as far as I can go since I have not seen the new shows yet.
Wasn't "Reed must suffer" in Enterprise? I mean, yeah, Tucker suffered, but it usually was his own fault (talking about before the Xindi arc when Enterprise suddenly became good of course)
@@leonardorossi998 Probably, I just remembered the ones with Trip; it's been a long time since I watched Enterprise. Maybe tomorrow night, I go through that journey again.
Discovery: The viewer must suffer.
Poor Dumb Harry
@@eacy7deacy that's just not true. Discovery is actually fairly good. Burnham is written fairly well, and though the whole red angel arc is lazy, it's portrayed well.
Perfect choice for the end credits. Probably my favorite opening of any show ever. "Tuuuvook I understaand, youuuu are aaa vuuulcan maaan"
Shout out to the Delta Flyers podcast, the actors who played Tom and Harry went through Voyager reviewing the episodes and sharing behind-the-scenes stuff, and are now going through Deep Space Nine.
"Verified snack Harry Kim" made me laugh. Fantastic. I do wish they had kept up better on Torres' and Kim's friendship. I still felt it was there in later seasons, I just wish it was in the forefront more than the background. So seriously I would love to see a Star Trek series about an expedition to explore outside the galaxy being led by Captain Harry Kim. Also I freakin' love the "You got Kim'd" bit. Thank you.
In her first season I think Seven got the focus because she was a new character that the writers could tell new stories with. In later seasons I really think it is Jeri Ryan's talent as an actress that attracted the focus she got. I think she did so well in the role. The same thing for the Doctor. Robert Picardo has fantastic on screen chemistry with the whole cast and his stand alone episodes tend to be great.
Thanks for the great episode. All your work is great but these "is good actually" episodes are my favorite.
lol a show about kim's experiences as captain. That would be interesting. I get the feeling he would be very tempted to go off the record alot in the name of fellowship, as he was very emotional. That could be really good.
Janeway is my partner's favourite captain, so I will definetly make him watch this and hear the things said out loud he keeps repeating everytime we talk about star trek.
I've always had a strong Voyager bias because it was the first Trek series I watched, but I'm happy to see other people find it more "objectively" good. :)
Same
Voyager was the series that introduced me to Star Trek, back in the day. I would watch it with my dad, back when it was first airing, and I fell in love. ❤
While I acknowledge that it has some inconsistencies and flaws, it will always hold a special place in my heart, and I will always love it. ☺️
I completely forgot how out of nowhere harry could be so sassy ^^
"Blink Of An Eye" was a great episode.
The first of many Voyager episodes to make me cry
It is! It's based on a book called The Dragon's Egg by Robert Forward which I read after watching the episode, it was a little weird but mostly a good read.
Harry Kim as part one AS HE DESERVES makes me as happy lmao
Also I was hanging out for you to mention threshold lmfao
Voyager has its problems, but I love it. I love the characters. "Oooh, I love Harry! Oooh, I love the Doctor! Oooh, I love Janeway!" That was me for pretty close to every character featured. 😛
The doctor owned it. The actor also played minor roles in Stargate. He really stole the scenes wherever he acted.
every series has its own problems, thats just how making anything is.
That was a fun video! Thanks for making it. Voyager is one of my go-to's for while I'm working on a project. I just like to live on Janeway's ship for a while.
A typical case of _Barclay syndrom!_ Be careful not to spent to much time on the holodeck or we've got to call Deanna in. 😅
I grew up with Voyager. The opening will forever fill me with childhood wonder.
I'm actually re-watching Enterprise right now bc I wanted to check if it was as disappointing as I remember, and I am on the verge of postulating " Star Trek: Enterprise is good, actually".
T'Pol might have become my second-most-favorite Vulcan.
I like Archer's rather informal style.
I like the Vulcans as jerks.
Shran.
I'm on the same boat, except that final episode made me so much angrier than I thought i could be by a show. Like to an irrational level.
Fuckin' Shran
T'pol's arc throughout the show is fantastic and Jolene Blalock plays her wonderfully.
@@QBG I hated the intro too... at first but then at some point in season 2 I realized that the intro song pairs well with intro video showing how far mankind has come so far. They show off the different methods mankind has used to explore our world and then end with showing that we're going to the Final Frontier, Space. It just felt very poetic and once I realized that it grew on me very fast
Darksteelhero Hot take, I actually love the intro. It’s different obviously. But the lyrics perfectly fit the theme of Enterprise and humanity taking its first steps into deep space.
I want to watch the show with the You Got Kim’ed moments edited in. Maybe someone could put out a special edition.
My only real problem with voyager (I’ll admit it’s been years) is that there are too many “We found a way home. Oops nope” episodes.
Which is probably why the last episode ended the way it did; voyager passes through the wormhole and finds itself smack in the middle of about a dozen starfleet ships with Earth right in front of them. You can see everyone on the bridge dead silent with no one daring to speak, as if they can't believe their eyes - because they CAN'T.
There has been so many "close calls" they're scared that if they open their mouth and say anything, for example, like reporting "It seems we're back in the alpha quadrant, Captain" or something, the illusion will shatter and they'll find out it's not real. Only when they're being actually hailed by starfleet command someone breaks the silence and speaks.
Imagine one additional camera shift, underlined with a shimmering-mystical melody; towards the orchid left where Tuvix split up.
Makes it more life-like if you ask me.
@@spacey_432 I loved "tuvix"..how was she supposed to handle the dilemma? I think it showed us one of her many sides, she could do whatever the situation required.
Gilligan’s Island in space is how I’ve often thought of it.
I completely agree with this review. You even pointed out things that I didn't know, and I've heard some of Garrett Wang's podcasts that he did like more than 10 years ago, I think
This was the show that introduced me to Star Trek and as such it will always hold a special place in my heart.
Star Trek fans- "Oh yeah, I liked some of The Doctor's episodes."
Doctor Who fans- "What?"
"You know, The Doctor."
"Doctor Who?"
Doctor Who sucks. The English just like to hear themselves talk. Boring sci fi.
That is so perfect. 😆 I figured the Voyagers writers was influenced by Doctor Who to create a character named The Doctor in star trek. Brilliant. One of the Doctor's long lost "incarnation". 😉😂
@@alienlife7754 lmao it being boring is debatable. The thing I hate about it is that it's fricking terrifying for kids, my mum still feels super uneasy from daleks and I'm forever traumatised from weeping angels
I love Doctor Who, both classic and modern. Perhaps unwittingly, Roddenberry himself invented a "Doctor-esque" character in the form of Gary Seven. He had his companions Isis and Roberta, his servo was far cooler and more functional than the sonic screwdriver, he travelled widely in space and time, and the Beta 5 was something like the oft recalcitrant personality of the TARDIS. I really wish the proposed series had been picked up. That said, Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars novels probably did Seven and his team more justice than the series would have.
@@erinocelotl3578 I always appreciate being shown what true fear is in a safe, fictional environment. The scariest episodes of Doctor Who were the best ones.