I found YouTuber Sarah N Tuned's off-road test hill. How difficult is it?
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- While on a trip to visit @traxda2756 in Tuscon, Arizona (USA), I was told that @SarahnTuned 's test hill was just 5 miles away. What a coincidence! Being the NERD that I am, I just had to visit the hill! Just FYI, I will not be sharing this location, so please do not ask. I wish for Sarah's test hill to remain as consistent as possible. If this location becomes public, it may become highly trafficked and "blown out".
So, there were a few of you that thought the Outback wilderness would make easy work of this test hill and that Sarah just doesn't know how to drive. Maybe the obstacle is really that challenging? The purpose of this visit was to find out!
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![Outback Wilderness vs. Forester Wilderness [Sarah N Tuned Reaction Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZF_JtgJ7aKQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Outback Wilderness vs. Forester Wilderness [Sarah N Tuned Reaction Video]](/img/tr.png)
Hey thanks! It's a pretty neat spot aside from all the trash out there.
Thanks for everything you do @Sarah -n- tuned ! Love the Honesty! I hope your test hill doesn’t get too ripped up. I’m just a regular dude that makes videos as a hobby, but I’d love to do some kind of collaboration. The owner of the lift company called Traxda USA is also a HUGE fan of yours, and his business is just 5 miles away from your test hill. I know it’s a long shot, but if you’d be willing, please let us know 😃
I grew up four wheeling and that woman can definitely drive. Thank you for your honest review of the test hill.
I love watching Sarah. She is funny and spews out all kinds of information. You both make awesome videos and envy all the fun you guys have doing your videos/work.
Jondz,
You and Sarah need to do a collaboration together! Great vids from both of you.
Thanks Mr. Noboa! She’s big time, I’d be honored if she would agree.
+1 for the collab. I do like Sara N Tuned videos.
Very precise, informative, and balanced. Excellent work. Wish more people would do these types of comparisons and explanations.
Thanks for those kind words 🙏 💀
@@JonDZ_Adventuring
You earned them👍
ONE: The Ridgeline (and Sarah) did that climb with the STOCK tires, not deflated.
TWO: This hill is more difficult than any hill 99.9% of drivers will ever encounter, let alone have to drive up.
THREE: That Sarah is female/hot is not even on my list of why I watch her outstanding channel.
FOUR: I find it fucking sad that Jon had to "come to Sarah's defense". It's 2022, I can't believe there are still so many chauvinistic pigs...
I’m so glad to see this community is so open minded. To see a trans woman, like Sarah, succeed is great.
@@richardbirkenwald811 I beg to differ. A simple Google search will tell you about her
This is AWESOME !! !! !!
Now we have a TRUE comparison !!
This makes me feel better about my purchase. I picked up my Forester Wilderness last month.
Congrats! How do you like it so far?
So far it’s my favorite car I’ve driven. I haven’t taken it onto the trails yet. I’m having to save up for the under armor for it. I took it on its first long distance drive and it was really smooth. Lane keep assist seems a little wonky when driving long distances. With it off it’s a really nice drive.
I just picked up a 2023 Forester Wilderness. Absolutely love it. I’ve already been off the beaten path more in this thing than ever before. Really impressed with your video, your honesty, and now a subscriber. Great work and great looking Honda rig.
Watching this before i get ready for work
Same
Sarah's awesome. I love her channel.
Jon, this is such big topic and we are all looking for a final answer.. I think your next big hit is if you take both the Outback Wilderness and the Forester Wilderness on that hill and do a comparison. We would really appreciate that!
Great video! Sarah, did it with the Ridgeline and yet still calls the Ridgeline a "NART". 🤦♂️ Well, we love our RL! 😊
You mean Acura RL when you said “our RL”, right?
If it is right, love it. I have one too. 😊
@@sanguenguyen3566 RL for Ridgeline but regardless they are both in the same Honda Family! 😊
Doesn’t need to be a truck to make it up that. But I think it’s a good truck (chassis) with a not a truck driveline (fwd based with weak transfer gear design).
Excellent work as always Jon, very interesting!
I'm sure Sarah can out drive anyone making negative comments. Sarah's the best reviewer period.
Hey nice meeting you today Jon...!
It was nice to meet you too! I knew the name sounded familiar!
Thank you, this video inspired me to install my skid plate that’s been chilling in my bed for 2 weeks. Finally have my dumb transmission lines that hang under the trans protected.
Well said about getting out and using your feet! When considering my options I decided on a 2018 Forester with a manual transmission because I love stick shift, and I just wanted something to get closer.
Where do you live? In the USA, I don't think a MT is available in the Forester after 2013.
It appears I have been lied to!
How about that.
It is even a 6MT from 2015-2018ish, not a 5MT.
Nice! I need to bring my 2020 Nissan Frontier Pro-4X to that hill and redeem the Frontier lol. Idk if you saw the 2022 Frontier video but Sarah tried to take it up that hill in 4-Hi and the nanny-bots took over and stopped the truck from going up. Now there are people who think the Forester is more capable than a 4x4 truck lol. My 2020 seems to have less tech (which I prefer) so I think it might be able to do it. Anyways love how you're doing these videos, keep up the good work!
I'd imagine any truck has enough wheel articulation to get through this with ease. I need to watch this 2022 Frontier video, LOL. Did she pop it in 4 low and get up?
@@JonDZ_Adventuring yeah once she put it in 4-Lo it just climbed up easily. But the nanny-bots were annoying despite doing what they're supposed to do I guess. The computer it seems will stop what it perceives as a bad driver from doing something the truck isn't supposed to do - like drive up a hill in 4-Hi - even if the truck is capable of doing so.
I continue to be impressed by the Forester Wilderness. That car can do quite a lot with that wheezy 2.5L motor!
The problem is the CVT not the engine.
Great video. You inspired me to take 2010 X5 35d w/ Nitto Ridge Grappler tires up to Coyote Flats last year (and did it with no problem). Hope to see you out there this year! Heading down Lipincott Road on March 6.
I never like 4x4 or AWD because I never needed one but after watching your videos more than a year, I decided to get a Honda Ridgeline 2022 and I’ll be picking it up on Friday, it’s a 6 hours drive since there’s isn’t one nearby but I’m happy
Awesome! Congrats! My friend Ian from @nolodesigns (he makes the skid plates) and I, drove up to imogene pass in Colorado last year. It was such an amazing experience! That’s the 2nd highest drivable pass in the 48 states! You’re Ridgeline with the ZF9 will treat you well!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring
Also looking at NoLo skid plates , I’m definitely going to buy them.
Great video man! I just bought a Forester wilderness and glad to see your stamp of approval on it! I'm not doing any rock crawling with it but glad to know it can handle itself reasonably well.. On and off road!
Thank you Darian, congrats on your ride!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring thanks man!
Nice adventuring! so I get to know this car better
Nice video, Jon. I've learned from experience it never looks as bad on camera.
There is footage of me with the POYB boys somewhere doing a hill climb but it was so steep that I could lay down and still essentially be standing up.
Excellent video 👏👏👏👏
Haha great video ! That sound at the end thoooo 🔥🤣
The artist NEFFEX released a bunch of copyright free music on UA-cam studio 😃. I didn’t know he’s one of the biggest UA-camrs out there. Might not be everyone’s taste, but good quality music.
Love her.. the Passport looks great.
I love watching Ryan’s Driving Sports TV channel too. His reviews are just like yours. No BS. No marketing spin.
Nicely done. Sara is legit you earned a sub.
Thanks Phillip! She really does some meaningful tests!
Sand mode really makes a difference! Rock sliders all right!
Please if some one knows a Subaru engineer or some one in Subaru can you show them this or ask them if they know about the difference between the forester and outback, I would love to know their input on it
also the Wilderness edition has transfer case and oil cooler so I think over heating is not an issue but I think im almost convince forester Wilderness can climb better
Great video and commentary !
Ty ty
i don't know how many times it needs to be said...turbo does not help you when crawling over obstacles
Yep! It’s all about the torque at idle, unless you have that high tech mild hybrid motor that Jeep uses ☺️.
Great video! Keep up the good work.
I'm planning on getting the forester wilderness but it actually for the towing of all things.
More good stuff....
Yeah the CVT transmission is really killing Subaru awd system tbh.
That’s how I felt about the CVT when I had my 2015 Forester XT. My friends in 1st, 2nd and 3rd Gen foresters would constantly exhibit more capability, even with much less crawl ratio. As shown by Sarah, the Forester wilderness shows a substantial improvement in CVT capability though!
Seeing this reinforced my plans to head to the dealership next weekend to see what they'll take for my '19 forester sport as a trade in for a wilderness trim. Hopefully I'll be able to work out a good deal and take advantage of the used car market at the moment, since I really like my forester, but I really like the modifications they did with the wilderness + a factory installed cooler. Get my ironman kit installed and it'd probably be one of the most capable foresters in my state!
At first glance, the obstacle didn’t look too difficult, but they way it crosses up axles makes it a legit test of a traction control system. In person, while I was driving through it, it was formidable, and I’m glad I was able to capture that!
Toyota Highlander "TRD Pro" might be a good car and I think there is a market need for that. :)
This video is impressive bro. 🤙🏽
Thanks Mike
So my question is...when can we order the rock sliders for Ridgelines?🙂🙂🙂
Out of the 3 bolt locations, the front doesn’t line up with the Passport/Pilot. But there will be a version made for the Ridgeline! It’s just a matter of relocating the bracket before welding.
How much do the rock sliders cost?
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Great, thanks! I'm waiting.
@@aaronrepper7649 I’m not sure, things are still getting finalized
Sarah made it up there with a Highlander XSE with 235/55r20 Bridgestone Alenza Sport A/S tires, so, traction was not on side of the Toyota either.
Great video
Great vid Jon! I drive a 2000 ¾ ton Suburban 4X4 but I’ve always been interested in Subarus, in fact wife has a 2019 Outback, that sadly never leaves the pavement. I love the open minded nature of your episodes. I used to watch Sarah and Driving Sports but I got bored with them...they wandered off topic w/ episodes of vehicles that didn’t interest me and others that didn’t waste my time and soon I had too much to watch. As l long as you continue to focus on honesty and reasonable consistency of topics, you’ll have me for a long time. I may even sell my big black, gas-guzzling beast! Be then again I’m an old-school guy who was raised under the adage, “bigger is better”, which i realize isn’t always true.
Out of all the vehicle choices for overlanding and car camping (which the lifestyle that this channel is centered around), the suburban makes a whole lot of sense! I’m surprised I don’t see more of them. Thanks for the support and kind words.
That honda did better than my Forester wilderness wouldhave done i think!
It would be cool to see a Cherokee Trailhawk hit that same hill, I'm guessing the low gear and rear locker would help a good bit.
It wouldn’t even be a contest. 56:1 with a true rear locker would make easy work of this obstacle.
Straight up cross axled, wasn’t really down to wheel articulation.
Jon im missing your uploads! One question since we rock the same carplay gaia setup... has Gaia ever just stopped randomly tracking you. As in, has the arrow just stopped when you are driving and then randomly update to your location like 5 minutes later? Did a trip last week with no cell service and that was a big issue. Thanks!
GAIA has done a lot of weird things during my 2 years of using it. Lately, it’s been hardly working 😭
Since you brought up the how AWD is better for daily use and low gas mileage, I looked at the various options (in order of cost):
Maverick: ~29k 22/29 city/hwy mpg
Forester wilderness: ~$33k 25/28 city/hwy mpg
Bronco Sport badlands: ~34k 25/28 city/hwy mpg
Rav4 TRD Off Road: ~36k 25/32 city/hwy mpg
Passport: ~38k 20/25 city/hwy mpg
Ridgeline: ~38k 18/24 city/hwy mpg
Tacoma TRD Off Road: ~40k 19/24 city/hwy mpg
Ranger XLT FX4: ~40k 20/26 city/hwy mpg
Those are EPA estimates. I did a video on “MPG and how your overlanding mods affect them”. My Passport which is actually rated for 24 mpg highway by the EPA (because it’s the AWD model), with all my crazy mods can still achieve 22 mpg highway. People without mods are getting 29 mpg. My old 2015 FXT with light mods, was getting 19 mpg highway. Before it was modded, it would get 27 mpg. This is all traveling at 65 mph. My friends in their modified Tacomas get 15 mpg highway under the same parameters.
Mazda CX30 $25K 30.5 mph (real world)
Note: the reason I don’t air down is because Sarah N Tuned doesn’t air down for her tests. Watch the side by side comparison of the Outback wilderness vs. the Forester Wilderness here: ua-cam.com/video/ZF_JtgJ7aKQ/v-deo.html
If Sarah N Tuned wheeled this hill, riding on 24 inch spinning chrome rims, on low profile sports car race track use tires, would you do that too? Lol
Airing down is necessary for many reasons, including for traction, decrease tire spin and wear and tear, and to reduce to chance of puncturing your tires.
@@lunamaria1048 11:43
@@JonDZ_Adventuring 11:43 has nothing to do with this comment, or you driving the precious secret "test" hill without airing down, because "Sarah N Tuned did".... You were white knighting, trying to shield Sara N Tuned from criticism, by doing the same, to validate her poor choice, that received comment criticism... When people criticize me, I evaluate any problems and attempt to do better.. I'm no narcissist, so welcome criticism.
@@lunamaria1048 you’re special ☺️
@@lunamaria1048 she explains why she doesn’t air down. Do a little detective work 🕵️♀️.
I’ve found that articulation is crucial. Deleting my sway bars and switching from a 2” spacer lift to the long travel Ironman ATS added a lot of capability to my Subaru. I wish I could test it on the same hills as y’all. Long travel suspension is expensive, but disconnecting or deleting sway bars is free and extremely beneficial for off road. A great video would be testing a stock AWD vehicle with and without sway bars on the same obstacle. People should remove their sway bar endlinks when they are airing down. It is quick and easy.
No VTM-4 lock?
Some old Subaru Automatic transmissions you have to manually put in 1st gear to have 50/50 power split. In D you have 90/10
iVTM4 uses terrain modes instead. So mud or sand mode would do the job.
I'd love to see a video examining the differences between different Subaru's CVTs
I bet Mr. Subaru 1387 could help with that
@@JonDZ_Adventuring
Oh I've requested that already from him :)
Dude, come on man. She drove a Mazda CX90 up that hill. After watching this I don't think I could do that.
That is in my back yard, my stock Nissan Frontier pro4x climbs everything there
I think the thing I was upset with Sarah's video is she never mentioned deep snow and mud. That being said I can see now the outback is not the wilderness to buy.
The majority of the vehicles Sara has made it up that hill with also 'only' had all season tires on them - the few vehicles that had real off road tires she drove them up no sweat ...........
Very few vehicles come with all terrain tires stock. The Outback wilderness didn’t make it up despite having an A/T.
the Yokohama Geolander is no Falcon Wiildpeak - hence my use of the words 'only' 'majority ' and 'all season' @@JonDZ_Adventuring
Watching this as I take my morning dump
Nothing says a NEW DAY like putting yesterday’s breakfast, lunch and dinner behind you. 💩 literally!!!
I do hills like that all the time with my lifted 2001 Volvo V70XC. I just air down at the trail head.
The reason the 2001/2002 Volvos do better than most AWD cars is because it’s a mechanical Visco AWD system, not Haldex or electronically controlled equivalent. The difference is you have to keep your foot in it and not back off lest you want it to disengage.
AWD is a compromise however if you know what your weaknesses are you can try to scout your course up a hill or over an obstacle accordingly.
My suggestion is to check out this other UA-cam channel that puts AWD cars against each other on rollers.
Also tyre selection is key. I recommend the Toyo Open Country AT3. It’s 3 peak rated does well in snow and it’s a softer compound that’s ideal for Battle wagons since we’re lighter than your average SUV, and of course pressure is everything.
Lastly I’d like to state that slow and steady approach is for locking hub 4x4’s, AWD needs higher RPM’s to keep the system engaged. So don’t be afraid to give’re the beans and just send it.
m.ua-cam.com/video/chenbeaft90/v-deo.html
This Russian channel does great tests on AWD cars/Crossovers.
ua-cam.com/video/ll1WkiatSFs/v-deo.html
@@ellefields8878 you’ll need to watch the video before this one. I don’t air down because Sarah does not air down in her tests. I guess I’ll need to make a pinned post to explain this.
@@ellefields8878 another thing. AWD systems have advanced quite a bit since your Volvo 😃. The problem with viscous couplings (my 2010 WRX had a viscous center differential) is that it takes too much time to engage. Spinning a wheel means you’ve already lost traction, and open diffs just mean power escapes in the path of least resistance. 4WDs have also advance quite a bit. Most have electronically activated locking differentials. Brake based traction control is also a very effective way to pulse power to wheel that needs power.
You took completely different line on sand mode. You can see that you drove more to the right avoinding the deep hole, opposed to the first try .
Actually, during the sand mode climb, I did a better job at straddling the wall on the driver side. In normal mode, the Passport slipped into the rut a little.
I wonder if the newer OBWs use the same transmission
How often are people driving in hills like these? For day to day road driving, wouldn't the Outback be a better option?
Would you say after doing the hill in person that the wilderness forester is greatly improved over your old one now?
My 2015 FXT had the the TR690HT. I’ve observed the same generation 2.5s with the TR580 doing better than my old forester. The forester wilderness appears to be the best CVT Subaru ever made. Well… until the Crosstrek wilderness comes out. If they put the same engine/trans as this forester wilderness (or maybe even improve something), the Crosstrek is going to be killer.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring people are hoping for them to put the turbo in that car which would mean the same trans as the outback hopefully they don’t
@@JonDZ_Adventuring do you think a non turbo sj would've made it??
@@ScatteredDreams120 sarah tried with a non turbo SK Forster sport. It didn’t make it. Airing down will help a lot. I think I’d be able to crawl up at 2 mph if I aired down. Sarah just keeps the parameters the same to show off the differences in a vehicles AWD system, flex, and transmission. There’s a lot of things that can be done to make an AWD more capable, for example, adding a winch. It is nice for a vehicle to have mechanical attributes with out mods tho 😃. A SJ aired down with a little momentum should be able to do this. It’ll be violently rough though.
I always appreciate your content. Question 🙋♂️ why did you choose the Falken tires?
Thanks Paul! The Falken Wildpeak AT3W tires are a tried and true aggressive tire choice. They are severe snow rated and are the only P-rated tire with an aggressive shoulder. This tire is the best performing tire I have ever owned. I’m on my 2nd set, and will mount a 3rd set once these are done. In this video there’s a lot of slipping because the front tires are at 42 psi and the rears are at 46 psi.
I’m just unsure if I’ll be able to do the trails I’ve been doing with another tire.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring great to hear and sharing. I was just wondering why the choice. So many tires to choose from and you truly put those tires to the test. Thanks.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Jon, are you using P-rated and not load range C, D, or E Wildpeaks? If you are using P rated do you worry about sidewalls when airing down? I ask because we have the P rated FWP on our GX and I’m always nervous about it off-road. That said they have never let us down in thousands of miles of off-road adventures. We need great snow traction (P-rated apparently have more silica) and appreciate the better mileage over the E-range in our size but are considering the E rated (no C or D in our size) when replacing.
@@robbergstrom943 the E rated WPAT3W have 18mm of tread too! But man they’re heavy. Your suspension in the Lexus GX should be able to handle it in stride, I just worry about the 11 lb heavier tire might wear out my suspension faster. Just like you, the p rated wildpeaks have not let me down. I’m on my 2nd set and so far, I haven’t had a flat tire 🤞
@@JonDZ_Adventuring One thing I noticed was the weight of the P-rated WPAT3W in a given size often equal to or heavier in weight than C-range tires from BFGKO2s and also have a larger max load rating which lead me to believe that they have construction closer to a C range tire for maximum durability. For example, in 265/70/17 the WPAT3W P-metric SL tire weighs 46.5lbs and has a max load of 2679lbs@51psi. The BFGKO2 C-range in this size weighs 45.7 lbs with a max load of 2470lbs@50psi.
Good work, Jon! Those rock sliders don't seem to extend too far down, how do you like them?
Thanks! So far so good. I just got them Installed, so curious if they’ll make contact or get hung up on things
I clearly watch too much UA-cam because I have seen all of those videos from each channel.
Dude, it isn’t “give it more gas”. More correctly you are “going it more beans”! Get in the groove! That’s what she said!!
👍🏽👍🏼👍🏽
Hi Jon! Great video once again. Quick question... "Why" do you think the center differential overheated on such a short (albeit loose and fairly steep) hill? Was it because of Sand Mode which you have said in the past puts more heat on the system? I watched your video when you were heading up to that lake waaay up in the mountains over rock gardens and you didn't overheat. What are your thoughts? Thanks!
good question, but lets make it CRYSTAL CLEAR, the system DID NOT overheat. The heat warning is there to prevent you from overheating it and causing damage. When the warning comes on, it's a reminder to drive your midsized Honda like a 4WD, not an AWD. Even with a cooling units, parts will melt when pushed hard enough. Now, to answer your question. I've only had the warning come on 6 times in my 3 years of vehicle ownership. IT COMES ON WHEN YOU EXCESSIVELY SPIN YOUR TIRES. In this short distance, I managed to spin my tires a lot.
When I drove up that high elevation technical mountain trail, I just crawled it. The stress was different, it was more on my transmission from the steep grades and high elevation. When I got to the rock garden, you'll notice I wasn't spinning tires, I was crawling over the boulders. That's the #1 thing you have to keep in mind when you drive your Passport, drive it like a 4runner, not like a Subaru. Just like Toyota's A-trac, our traction control system is only active during lower RPMs. The sweet spot is 1200 to 1600 (which is low speed crawling). Subaru's traction control system has to detect wheel slip, it's not as full time as Honda iVTM4 and Toyota's A-trac.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thank you Jon! Great answer. Helps me to understand the RPM's I need to keep when going over any obstacles and to try to limit high speed wheel spin. You have been very helpful!
@@jamesmeans6558 learning the “left foot brake” technique will not only keep you in the traction control sweet spot, but it also lets you reset a slipped wheel to a stop, which regains traction. iVTM4 is 2 part. 1.) traction control 2.) rear LSD. The rear LSD is always working, so by staying in the traction control sweet spot, you’re using both systems!
I really wish I had the time to air down to show how much of a difference it makes. The first attempt crawling at 2-3 mph on the steepest part of the obstacle, I actually almost made it, even though my tires were over inflated. I think I could have crawled it at 3 mph if I aired down to my typical 20 PSI. Or 1-2 mph, if I aired down to 15 PSI.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Hey Jon. Thank you for the further response! Since you brought up tires.... I noticed when looking closely that you have the P rated version of the Wildpeaks. They have an XL version that has deeper tread depth and bigger side-biters on it. Have you considered going with the XL version (it's not an E rated tire.. more of a C load rated tire). You might get better trail performance from them. Cheers! :)
@@jamesmeans6558 I'm trying to keep as much unsprung weight off the suspension. The P rated version has just as aggressive side biters (or shoulders, whatever you call them). Every other A/T tire out there has less aggressive shoulders in the P-rated version, that's why I run wildpeak AT3Ws.
Excellent video. Over the years I've grown tired of self assessed experts throwing out mindless quips about tires, ground clearance, approach and departure angles as well as the need for extreme amounts of power or specialty shock. Truth is it's all a balancing act and every piece of the puzzle matters to the end result. Sometimes tires can and do make a difference but it's not automatic especially when talking about tires in the same category or very close in their intended application. Sometimes ground clearance is meaningful but other times vehicles with more than enough ground clearance have so much bodywork out in front that the approach angle won't let you use the ground clearance. And anybody still doubting it's a balancing act only needs to watch the comparisons between the Subaru Wilderness stablemates. Why does the Forester succeed where the Outback fails?
It could be the greater transmission ratio spread versus the Outback allowing for better low speed power application meaning better torque transfer to the wheels with traction. It could be that the decreased ground clearance of the Forester was sacrificed for a bit more wheel travel. It could be the shorter wheelbase, the 300 pounds of reduced weight or the newest version of X-mode which debuted on the Forester, not the Outback. It could be any of those things but most likely it's all of them together. After all the Outback has more clearance and more power You know, two of the major things the typical guy who thinks he knows off roading would tell people are among the most important factors.
You're right, many factors matter, including the obstacle. Generally speaking, long wheel base vehicles have an easier time climbing up hills, but in this case, ruts are thrown into the puzzle and the wheel base length being a perfect match could be the determining factor if the obstacle is completed or not. We learned a lot of things from the driving sports and Sarah N tuned's videos though. the TR690HT CVT will exhibit torque converter speed stall when stressed out. I've also experienced the same thing (to a much more severe degree) in my 2015 FXT. Put a prolonged sand dune climb in front of the Outback wilderness, and it'll probably outperform the Forester Wilderness.
Oh! One more thing to add. The 550 lbs of extra gear and my over inflated tires really screwed with my vehicles capability. Sorry for RIPPING UP YOUR TRACK Sarah!!!!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Yep, you never know exactly what will work until you try. What I like about Sarah's videos is she just tends to drive the car and let the results speak for themselves. Driving Sports makes great and informative videos I just wish he'd leave out some of his personal interpretations which often go untested or don't jive with the reality of physics or mechanics. I appreciated your video for the same reason as I like Sarah's videos. There's no nonsense, no interpretation, just this is what we did and this is the result we got. As for Subaru (I own one) I do wish they would stop trying to refine the CVT and just get back to a real automatic. I've never had a mechanical issue with it but I've definitely been stopped from completing some trails because of it.
Hey Jon, are you saying that the Forester is a better choice than the Outback for offroad?
The forester wilderness with the TR580 appears to be a better choice than the turbo charged Outback wilderness with the TR690HT. That model is CVT has a bad reputation. Friends 2020 Subaru ascent had the CVT go bad twice. He just got a replacement and the replacement blew up after 2 day. It’s just less reliable and apparently, less capable.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring thank you!
@@popeyerubi1981 yw
Curious to know what you think of the Maverick FX4 being capable to make it on the same trails as you are taking your rig as I am picking mine up next week and want to do a bit of soft roading and camping...
I think it’s possible. The Ford maverick will be very close to the capabilities of a Jeep Compass Trailhawk. Ford mavericks are geared 17:1, but if you get the 4K towing package, crawl ratio is improved to 18:1. A Compass Trailhawk is 20:1, and a renegade Trailhawk is 21:1. It’s all really close. It helps there’s a traditional automatic transmission used. All of the more difficult places I’ve visited, I did lots of research by seeing what other vehicles have made it to the places I’ve gone. For the entire 9 mile fins n things trail, I’ve seen Jeep Renegade Trailhawks and Cherokee trailhawks. I’d imagine the Maverick might be able to make it as well. So to answer your question, I think you’ll make it to many of the places I’ve gone as long as you improve the ground clearance of the Maverick. I have a 3.5” lift kit with 12” minimum (measured) clearance, and 16” of rocker clearance. Traxda just R&Ded a lift kit for the Maverick. If you are thinking about that kit, you can use my discount code “JONDZ20” for 20% off. Good luck everything. If you go to one of the places Ive visited, please leave a comment. I’d love to here how your adventures are going.
I just checked Traxda’s website, and the Bronco sport and Maverick kits are not on the website. The kit will be different than what the other companies have produced so far.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks for the feedback. I did get the 4k tow package and do plan on a lift and larger tires. I will have to check out Traxda's kit and apply your discount! I will let you know when i hit some of your trails. I am a fan of your channel and impressed with the Passport that you have improved upon!
❤️❤️❤️Nice
I’d love to see a new Defender go up that hill
I’d would be too easy. Wheels would go in the air because of the full independent suspension but with 4WD and the best traction control system in the business, an obstacle like this would be nothing for a defender.
Forget the hill. Did you find the Sarah?
Would i get a heat warning for lets say loose sand beach driving?
Never
Hey Jon, if you aired down with the OBW do you think itll make it?
It almost made it up but it appeared to stall out, just like in the driving sports tv video clips. In the attempts by the Outback wilderness, when the axles get crossed up, the progress seems to stop. In my commentary about the forester wilderness, when the axles get cross up (wheel go in the air), it doesn’t give up and keeps climbing. So, to answer your question. Airing down will help, but I don’t know if it would be enough. However, you airing down provides more cushion and will allow for using more momentum safely.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring what do you think what if it only does that on snow dirt on the OBW what if it performs better than the Forester Wilderness if both uses Deep snow since it has a turbo
@@timothyj.2937 that’s a good question. We wouldn’t know unless it was attempted. Driving sports TV has done tests where deep snow / mud did better at times and worse other times. This obstacle cross axles, If you watch Sarah’s outback wilderness video, on the approach to the hump, there’s 3 wheel action twice. Each time it pauses progression for a moment until the traction control system could figure out what wheels to brake. Once the OBW makes it to the hump, the front and rear axle gets crossed. In deep snow / mud, it’s my understanding that it just spins the wheels and doesn’t try to redirect power, making it truly open diff with no traction aids. This obstacle was tailor made to stop open diff vehicles (including 4WD) from making it up. It’s truly impressive the forester wilderness makes it up. It’s “pause” on the hump, wasn’t long, and then it just climbs up.
@@timothyj.2937 you can see in this Instagram video clip with a much more severe cross axle obstacle. They call this the “frame twister”. It’s different than Sarah’s obstacle, because it’s not an uphill climb, but you’ll get the idea. instagram.com/tv/CMfZS-zgtpX/? . So, the Landcruiser doesn’t have a traction control system. The Jeep Rubicon does. My Passport has a rear LSD and traction control. Wheel articulation really helps the 4WDs, but in the land cruisers case, it can only do so much. So… I think traction control (snow/dirt in the OBW) would be the best bet. But… we wouldn’t actually know unless it was tried.
When you say "cross up your axles" you just mean, getting either one tire in air, or getting opposing corner tires in air?
Opposed tires in the air, but when one is up, it’s getting close to that point
Hey JonDZ, what are you running for street tire pressure. I'm trying to get a bit better milage on the road.
I run 42 psi front 46 in the rear, but I carry a lot of weight.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring OK, thank you for the info. I am running
Toyo Open Country A/T lll’s 265/50R20 on a 2021 Pilot with a 3.5” Traxda lift. At 35 psi on street, they feel a bit under inflated. I see a lot of people running 40-45 psi in there
A/T’s on the street, and was just curious what psi you ran.
What/who is the music at the end?
It’s apparently one of UA-cam’s biggest content creators with 5.5 million subscribers and multi million views per video. He made 200 songs in 200 weeks and his material is 🔥 🔥 🔥. He released “copy right free” music on UA-cam studio, so I can use his music without **demonetizing**my videos. His name is “NEFFEX”. I have alot of his songs to catch up on, but I’m liking what I hear. The wife won’t be able to stand it though 🤣.
How many runs did you make prior to that for the warning light to turn on?
All the runs were shown in this video. Nothing was cut out.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I asked that wrong how long or how much abuse does it take for the overheating indicator lamp to come on?
@@Bagel_Biscuit if you spin the wheels cross axled with no progress at high rpm it will take anywhere between 5-10 seconds. Honda AWD will let you redline during a climb, there are no digital Nanny’s. It’s also very capable, and will drive up where other AWD systems won’t be able to. The best way to explain it is that the Passport has extra capability, but it has a limit.
@@Bagel_Biscuit compared to a 4WD with a T-case. You’d be able to just spin as much as you want. All AWDs will catastrophically fail is pushed. Subarus and some other vehicles do not have a sensors warnings.
Does Honda’s iVTM4 have a “true” rear differential, or is it more of a standalone transaxle similar to what NASCAR now requires? NASCAR recently discontinued rear differential and replaced them with transaxle.
TFL also has videos where iVTM4 has overheated enough that they had to abort the remainder of their test trails. Maybe Honda’s limited-slip torque-vectoring clutch-pack should implement some dog-plate clutches to enable axle-shaft lockers to prevent excess torque from striping out the friction-plate clutch-pack. This way, an obstacle or long running hill can be completed while the friction-plate clutches have enough time to cool down. Another option is a cooler added to the rear iVTM4, since the front transaxle already shares the transmission cooler. I think the frequency of overheating warnings are scaring would be overlanding with Honda automobiles.
The 2023 TrailSport look interesting, and I hope the Ridgeline receives that edition before 2024. I think Honda should bring back the Element as a compact-pickup to compete against the Maverick and Santa Cruz.
A compact pickup market (Santa Cruz) towing 5k lbs doesn’t look great for Honda’s midsized class which also tows 5k lbs. To remain a serious competitor, Honda’s midsized class needs to start gearing into 6k+ lbs towing. Most Toyota’s have been towing at or above 6k lbs with an upgraded tow package for a few generations, since 2005. 2004, Is the last time Tacoma’s upgraded tow package were limited to 5k lbs.
Reliable towing ratios play a role in successful overland capability. If the engine becomes over worked, then excess throttle response to over compensate will just turn into wheel spin.
Also, most of the competitors have moved towards DOHC to achieve longer power-bands (Max Horsepower RPM - Max Torque RPM = Optimal Usable Power-band). With SOHC, the RPM Range is too short between Torque and Horsepower. Honda needs to move their consumer V6 to DOHC and possibly implement Acura’s light hybrid for additional low-end electric torque and improved fuel economy. Another option would be to bring back the much loved I4 2.4L (legacy CR-V & Element with 100k mile maintenance guarantee) upgraded with Honda’s dual-scroll twin-turbocharger to compete against Bronco/Ranger’s I4 2.3L EcoBoost.
whew, that's a really long comment! I'll respond to the first part. So, TFL doesn't have any videos where iVTM4 overheats. However, they do have videos where the Ridgeline with the Honda 6 speed transmission overheats on a prolonged climb up a trail in Colorado. They have video's of the GKN Twinster in the Ford Excursion overheating and going into limp mode. If you can link me a video of the iVTM4 system overheating, that would be helpful. A lot of people get very confused. As you can see from this video, the warning doesn't put the Honda into limp mode. During the climb at 6:37 that "ding" sound is the warning coming on. There's no change to the throttle input. After about 45 seconds, the warning goes away. Check out my rear differential fluid change episode, the fluid is clear upon change. ua-cam.com/video/KavPlwM2z_Y/v-deo.html
There's a video by driving sports TV where the heat warning comes on, but he also mentions there was no limp mode, and the Honda Passport was the first AWD vehicle to complete his cross cut hill test. Here's the link to that: ua-cam.com/video/cHwp1WxhYpI/v-deo.html
@@JonDZ_Adventuring you’re correct.
I’m confident this is the one I watched:
ua-cam.com/video/B5eE697aqEg/v-deo.html
The 2017 Ridgeline Black Edition overheated around 15:10, and Roman Mica mentions the transmission over heated. What’s most concerning is that the Black Edition trim level (RTL-T or higher trim) has the upgraded heavy duty transaxle cooler, so I can only imagine how a Sport or RTL would have performed with their smaller coolers.
I pretty much go to the Honda dealer every 5k for all my maintenance, since I purchased their 9-Year/90k extended warranty. iVTM4 is a highly guarded proprietary component. VTM4 old or new “i” is likely just the same lubricated limited-slip clutches, while the “i” likely just indicates the added computer automation sensors and relays. Just my assumption.
Driving Sports TV is a great channel, I’ve watched an almost identical one where he features the Ridgeline, but until now, hadn’t seen the Passport one.
I bought the 2019 Ridgeline RTL-T 6-speed and traded it in for the 2020 Ridgeline RTL-E 9-speed, just to avoid a potential overheating headache as mileage increases. The 2019 is more fuel efficient in the city due to the 2020 having the heavier or quicker to rev 9-speed. Once on the freeway, those 8th & 9th Autobahn gears briefly and intermittently reach 36 MPG on vacations from Atlanta to Orlando, FL or Gulf Shores, AL. Vacations north into the Smokies at Gatlinburg, TN or Pigeon Forge, TN required lots of heavy breaking since the 6-speed offered limited gear lockout options, often out of the needed ranges. The 9-speed is amazing in Sport Mode when hitting those 180° switchbacks on US HWY 19 and hardly any breaking is needed while using paddle-shifting. The 9-speed has a few bad shift delays when dog-plate clutching between planetary gears, but the friction-plate clutching is very fast while within the same planetary. While the Autobahn gears are nice on the freeway (70 MPH @ 2k RPM), I’d much rather have normal ratios on the freeway to achieve beefier ratios on the low end. I don’t think the Ridgeline should have identical ratios to the Passport and Pilot, since it carries the expectation of heavier and more frequent payloads with towing.
There are a few forest service roads around here that I drove in high school, but seldom get close to with the Ridgeline’s 7.87” of ground clearance. Honda seems to offer Jsport Performance Accessories without voiding the OEM warranty. Though, Traxda seems to offer more ground clearance than Jsport. The Helton Creek Falls forest service road pushed my stock Ridgeline to it’s limit, coming from US HWY 19. Coming from the other direction, shallow fording is necessary, which I didn’t attempt. I’d really like to do the “Cohutta / Big Frog Mountain Loop”, which took me about 5 hours in a stock Ford Explorer Eddie Bower Edition back in high school.
www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5210762.pdf
@@pm270x you need to watch this video of mine. My friends Ridgeline with the 6 speed overheated 7 times going up this 10k foot mountain trail. The guy is a marine, so maybe that’s why there was no quit in him 😃 ua-cam.com/video/RfKtynqGTzQ/v-deo.html
What size tires and wheels do you use?
This is an older video and here I’m running a 32” x 10” tire (255/70R18) on 18” x 8” black rhino chase wheels (offset 10mm, 5x120).
Now I run 33” x 10.4” Toyo open country AT3
So cvt in the outback is garbage?
ALL cvt are trash
Tucson*
I didn't drive five hours. To go crawl. I drove five hours for rocker. Zim/zer. Woman should drive.
Why don’t you just air down? It doesn’t take long to air down and then air back up even with a cheap Harbor Freight compressor.
…. Because this video is about Sarah N Tuned’s test hill, and she doesn’t air down… 😐
@@JonDZ_Adventuring oh got ya. I must have missed that part. Pretty cool you found her hill. Did you know it was out there or just stumble upon it?
@@MissouriAdventures I actually didn’t mention it in this video. This is a follow up video, and I didn’t mention that either 🤣. So, this hill would be really hard to stumble upon. Someone gave me the coordinates, but I was driving around for about an hour looking for this hill.
? ???????
Wth who’s that gurl huh ?? 😠😠
I have taken 3 extensive off road driving training schools, so tend to agree with the criticism of her driving.. I have also done open race track courses, in Japan, during a Toyota event.. They are totally different skill sets and disciplines.. So showing her doing a lap on a paved track doesn't mean anything... From what I have seen, when people say "she can't drive", they are referring to her off road driving.
You make an entire video dedicated to white knighting and shielding her from honest criticism?... Yeah.... Ok lol.
She tests all her vehicles under the same parameters and uses roughly about the same amount of speed. Watch the Jeep gladiator go up. With solid front and rear axles he gets a little cross axled. I’d you can’t recognize what happened, your offroad training school didn’t teach you well. Getting “Cross axled” is a very basic lesson, and I wasn’t even formally trained 🤣🤣. Shut up with your white knighting bull sh*t 🤣. You can’t accept that it might be the vehicle? You can’t accept that this obstacle might actually be a little challenging? If you can’t recognize those things, you lack the skill to observe.
Great video.