Can This Game Make You a Better Shooter?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- Get ACE - www.ACEXR.com
0:00 - Intro
1:00 - Overview and Disclaimer
2:30 - Hardware and Setup
6:45 - Range Hut, Game Settings, and Customization Features
8:12 - Skills Overview
10:07 - Mini-game (Thrills) overview
10:59 - Mixed Reality
11:52 - Drills Overview
12:41 - Leaderboards
13:30 - Series (Match-style drills)
14:12 - Does ACE Actually Work?
17:30 - Moving and Shooting
18:35 - Shortcomings
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Over $200 per year subscription.... I can buy quite a bit of ammo for that price tbh. I don't really see that value calculation with this, H3VR is probably a more accurate VR gun simulator as it is and its $30 one time. If I want dry fire trigger time I can get a laser cartridge for my actual gun for $40.
I have 27,000 trigger pulls in 2 months of ACE. Ammo seek is showing 9mm at .16 for right now so 200 could get you 1250 rounds (not including shipping and quantity limits). H3VR has high fidelity models but does not have the same training, scoring, and most importantly the handset with legit trigger take-up, break, and reset.
$200 isn't cheap, but it's also $16 a month. I can skip a case of beer per month to dry fire 50k rounds a year in Immersive VR.
Everyone's value calculation is different. It makes sense to me.
Do you play much VR? Genuinely curious. Once you're in the sim it feels real and sight alignment is quite natural. Really the only thing I'm not practicing is the draw.
For all the shooting in ACE I'm very target (rather than front sight) focused, just as in real life. The MR and VR environments damn near perfectly match my hands and the controller. It's probably something you'd have to just try to really get a feel for.
I've played over 300 hours of H3 and I def think there is some transferable skill there so potentially even more with the ACE given the trigger system. But I think investment in something like a coolfire trainer or the blackbeard for AR might be superior given the cost. I'm just not seeing how a fairly simple VR application and a 3d printed controller are worth so much especially if you intend to use it for a few years.
wow almost 1000 rounds a year! lol
Someone needs to make a mixed reality where you map your house, then it procedurally/randomly generates enemies that are interactive and shoot back, so you can literally clear through your own house and it's different everytime, this way you solve the locomotion issue of entirely vr worlds. They also need to make sure they support things Onward support like bluetooth recoil stocks/rifles, etc.
I believe there is already a game like this called FPS enhanced reality
I've been patiently waiting for something like this. Unfortunately the quest 3 isn't able to store spatial days for much more than 2 or 3 rooms. FPS Enhanced Reality is a step in the right direction but really not much more than a tech demo. Spatial Ops is an interesting arena arcade FPS in MR that does the best job so far imo.
Chimera XR has the functionality you're describing but so far is only going after the Gov market. ua-cam.com/users/shortsBhYVPC7cy8U
That’s what I was hoping for
@@ControlledPairsGamingello, can you do No plan b or door kickers?
It has absolutely helped me over the years of playing VR shooters.
228 a year for something like this is a no-go. It looks awesome and definitely has some value, but that's a little too much. A one time 300 dollar payment, I could see that as a little more reasonable but 228 a year to me is nuts.
Would be nice to see an option where you can choose to pay it for the subscription at a lesser rate or make a one-time payment for a lifetime access.
ACE support expects ACE branded holster will be available in April.
It's a great training tool for training target acquisition and transitioning between targets. For those who purchase it, just make sure not to sacrifice a proper grip to get a better trigger pull.
The one thing I find with this and MantisX is that you might tend to relax the pressure in your hands to avoid tremors and get a higher score. That pressure changes when you run live ammo in your gun, creating an inconsistency. Clamp down properly.
Keep that in mind, keep your dry fire training as consistent as you can compared to when shooting live.
Not sure how many USPSA competitions you've run, but you can always walk the stage before the first guy goes. (And also, there are the Ms and GMs that ask you how you would run the stage and then tell you how they would and why.)
Great video, Pairs. Hope ACE comes out with a holster soon.
They're saying April!
Make a Glock 19 frame and make it so I can draw from a concealed appendix holster and a duty holster and I'm sold. I just don't know how to make that compatible with those types of holsters off the top of my head.
I'm a glock shooter myself. I use MANTIS for weapon draw par time drills. I used to use it for transition drills, but this has proven more effective. Neither will replace the range time, but it definitely saves money (ammo) and time (driving to the range) while still improving skills.
Mantis for example, my holster draw time with accurate placement is now consistently below 1.5 seconds. That uses your actual weapon and gear.
This system I just got so ill update ya if I notice any improvement over the next couple weeks.
I was intrigue until its 228 for a year and controller i was expecting 50 60 buck for the controller and maybe 10 to 20 a month that would be way easier to manage and justify
That's precisely how the 228 figure is calculated. About $19 a month.
@ControlledPairsGaming makes since just wish there were smaller bites to take than the full year service all at once
As a firearms instructor as well as avid shooter, I could see a ton of use for this, especially with teaching new people. With that said, the subscription model is a no go for me. It’s very unfortunate they did the pricing that way.
Recently subscribed. Really helped me to get faster in transitions. Love it
It seems like a really great proof of concept, but it's lacking the stuff that would really put it over the top (and justify the cost for those who aren't sold on what's essentially just enhanced dry fire):
They really need to figure out how to license & build their own custom controller. Something that is in the exact same form factor as a Glock or Sig, can be used with the relevant holsters (or holsters made by ACE that are functionally similar to those used for CCW or competition). It should simulate recoil, at least as well as an umarex clone or a 22lr kit, Have a fully rackable slide, workable slide stop, push buttons in the appropriate spot for use with a simulated weapon light (for vr night shooting training), and detachable, drop free, magazines that can be swapped out of the controller & registered in game as a mag change, with each magazine having an in game set & stored round count that's remembered for each training session.
Then do all of that again, but with an AR.
If they could swing all of that, they would print money. And the tech is out there, just spread out across a half dozen companies who are all doing different stuff. Someone just needs to bring it all together
I'm more or less sold on it, and as soon as I finish building out my current CCW, I'll probably start saving for this, but they're gonna need to do all the stuff I listed to *really* sell the thing.
Totally agree with you. Unfortunately no one has done that yet. Not DoD. Nobody. Unfortunately most of these VR companies have proprietary tracking systems. That's especially true of meta. I've seen some true form factor trackers with Vive trackers but they lack standalone compatibility, virtually never have recoil, and usually not mags and push button slide release etc.
Tech is trending in the right direction. No one's taken the leap yet.
This 100%, do this and take my money!
I wish it was a one time payment, but then again, I'd like a shotgun for VR and it hasn't come yet. Great video!
I cant wait for the competition to enter the market. It will benefit all
I got into ACE almost 2 years ago. It’s a great tool to help and assist in training. Plus if you’re new to dots on a pistol, it helps you find your dot.
Also the ACE company is always releasing updates to the sim. They’re very active.
As much as I'd love to try it, i don't need another subscription in my life
Something like this integrated with a high fidelity milsim type VR game would be bonkers. Or at least if they added some sort of mode where you could shoot at actual combatants so you could do force on force training. I see this having a lot of potential, but don't understand why they confined themselves to real world limitations, like having to shoot paper/steel targets that sit still. It's VR, they can do anything!
The mini-game stuff is pretty solid. It'll be cool to see what other stuff they come up with.
It seems like, in ipsc fashion, they are trying to be non controversial.
Enemy combatants would make the replayability much higher
Man if they can simulate some type of recoil on the handset itself, that would be a game changer. Overall looks like a good product to train with and just have a little fun without the pain of spending live rounds. Cha Ching. 💸
They should try to develop a controller built into a green gas/reciprocating slide unit. Granted, it'd feel more like a suppressed .22, but something is better than nothing.
I continue to see about the pricing being the biggest concern, I can fully understand that for a video game but having purchased this subscription and using it for about 3 weeks now, I realized I put it into my training regimen minimum 30 minutes per day and I have racked up 4,000 plus rounds which I would never be able to do at the range and even if I could I would have bought this simulation 100 times over very well worth it.
Hey CPG, M shooter here training hard to GM in CO this year. I'm tired of pointing at tape on my wall for 1-2 hours a day :) so I'm seriously considering this... but I shoot Glocks and the model looks like it has a 320 grip angle... I'm worried this will throw my index off. You mentioned you didn't think that was the case. Can you expand on that? Is there a way or setting in the game that would allow you to adjust the POA/POI, so I could theoretically adjust the POI to more closely match my Glock index? Just worried that I invest a lot in this system and it just creates training scars.. Thank you!
-Will
I'm interested in this as well. The old version of this game "VR Practical Shooing" allow you to adjust the gun in your hand but didn't remember the setting so I had to unfortunately adjust it every time I played the game. This game needs to incorporate this older setting so our virtual gun can 100% be synced to our muscle memory developed with real weapons.
Was at a gun show and Im pretty sure they had a booth there vr is such a nice tool to have for gun manipulation and etc
They also offer a 20% discount for military and first responders. So i got mine for less than 200 bucks.
Man I want this! but the real winner is your garage! Bench press, drills, that's the life! Thanks for sharing.
This is the way.
Been looking into ACE for a while now, it's on my wishlist but also don't have any VR headset currently,
so I would be purchasing one specifically for this and at which point it's hard to justify.
This seems like a great idea in theory but is very expensive. Anyone can effectively dry fire with their actual firearm (just look at competition shooters like Ben Stoeger for more info). With that in mind this seems like a much more fun but also much more expensive way to accomplish the same goal. If they get rid of the subscription I will definitely give it a try though.
Lol Ben was practicing in Apple Vision Pro yesterday.
I saw that haha. I was wondering how that works without a controller and the gun being behind the screen. If they come out with a Glock controller I’ll probably get it anyway. I just hope no one feels like they need ace vr to get good.
Great concept and been waiting for a sim that can be used outside of PCVR but $228 is steep. “Range is Hot” on steam to me is a better value and it doesn’t require a subscription. Also a shame that Quest Pro isn’t supported.
Great review, I used my buddies and now thinking of buying. I did notice some jittering on really fast transitions. Is there a preferable setting for the quest 3 such as refresh rate, or fps to be adjusted to minimize them??
You can enable developer mode on the quest three and tinker with refresh rate which may yield better results. Also make sure you're using it in a well lit area to give the sensors plenty of data to navigate the 3d space.
Awesome, thank you sir. @@ControlledPairsGaming
I could see myself potentially getting this in the future when it's a bit more mature as a product. We'll see what the price looks like at that point--if it goes up significantly, it'll be hard to justify. The $228 they're asking right now is already on the edge. Also, they NEED to put out a lefty or ambi grip before I'll seriously consider it. I have no interest in building conflicting habits, even if only around the mag release.
I'm right-handed and left eye dominant. I just got a vr, and I bought contractors. I used the shooting range with my right eye, and it looked as far off as it would in real life..
I switched over to my dominant eye and hit what I was aiming at.. that's pretty damn realistic if you ask me
Having used to play VARBOX with Glock that is heavy and has recoil.
I didn't appreciate it enough now that it's out of service. (It came during COVID era)
I don't feel like this is for your average consumer though with the price.
That's a lot of Garand Thumb inspiration for one vid.😅👀
🤣🤣 was waiting for this one. It's the only backdrop I have that isn't just... Green 🤣
The pricing remains absurd. For $240 a year in perpetuity, they should be providing the best software on the Quest system, which they are not. Their unit does not seem that superior, if at all, to the Gaim system and that has a one-time payment for the system.
I think this is the best retail shooting sim in VR. Flat out. $19 a month may or may not be worth it to some folks and that's fine. GAIM's full kit is like $1200. Their sport shooting/USPSA/ACE-"equivalent" package is $490 and includes fewer scenarios but does have a range builder which is sweet. Again, that's likely coming to ACE as well. GAIM does have long guns, which is sweet, but the stock is lacking. Their partnership with dryfire mag looks promising but we won't know until it releases. The app is far less pretty and doesn't look to run nearly as well as ACE.
For the same price, you'd have two years and 100k+ trigger pulls in ace.
Again, comes down to the individuals interests and training goals. I like competitive pistol shootings and the types of skills it promotes so ACE is the obvious, though imperfect, choice.
@@ControlledPairsGaming No doubt on an individual level it comes down to personal choice. The question is on a market level is the prevailing pricing structure rational. The gaming industry in general should - and may - be waking up to the market destroying nature of the “live service” model.
Ace has not seemed to have done much market analysis regarding their pricing structure, when one considers the spending patters of the primary consumer (i.e. those with existing VR investments, as the number of converts to purchasing a headset strictly for this software would be miniscule).
Even if the company stuck to the failing live service model, $20 per month is not reasonable for most consumers - $10 may be doable for a significant percentage of VR owners, but $20 remains absurd.
I need this!
If I had a quest head set I’d get it. I’d start brewing my own coffee and probably come out ahead at the end of the month. Hopefully they open PCVR.
I am interested in this, but am going to hold off until they offer different grip modules. I heard they had a 2011 style grip and discontinued it for some reason?
Definitely a lot of value here, would be cool to be able to reload physical mags and use a holster as said. I like though, even with the subscription.
I'm right there with you at the intersection of tech nerd and firearms nerd. As an interesting comparison it would be cool to watch you run a drill you haven't done in real life in VR first then try it out IRL on the flat range to see if the familiarity built in VR translated. Not necessarily super scientific since you'll be a sample size of 1 but could be fun either way. Training for dot acquisition could also be a good comparison if you find someone not already running dots.
The device looks fun though I can see waiting around for more models of controller and/or some aftermarket recoil options like gas cartridges or magnet driven for better fidelity.
Great feedback. I'm planning on doing virtual/live comparisons over on my other channel. Should be a good time.
@@ControlledPairsGaming whats your other channel???
nvm i found it lol
To be honest, if it was a one time purchase I'd be very interested. The visual quality etc of this is not worth a subscription based model they are asking for too much. I can practice shooting with an air pistol whilst knowing I own the product for as long as I want.
It should also be possible to rack the slide with functional lock back, recoil would be nice too. The provolver has this feature.
It would also be nice to be able to purchase different styles of these handguns for the game, which would be a better way for them to make money, think a CZ Shadow 2 or some 1911 variant etc.
Glad I’m not the only one that likes the phonk
is the controller ambidextrous? can the magazine release be swapped?
(Pre watch comment, will edit if you answered in video)
Tangential, but is the Quest 3 built to work outside? I've never heard that mentioned.
I know the sensors on the 1 and 2 would fry from long term exposure outside.
You're not supposed to use it outside. I've had no issues. It's fine in the shade, has no issues tracking, but direct exposure to sunlight on the inside lenses can damage them.
@@ControlledPairsGaming The sun light shining in the lenses can burn the screen, that's it. Just don't take it off in the sun light and be carful with the lenses.
How much space is needed for the drills incorporating multiple shooting positions?
A garage will probably do for most. About 15-20ft square
Is there any recoil simulation?
Happy hump day, now lets check this controller out
this is extremely cool and very worth it at that price point
Okay, I pitched it to the wife, sold! now I just need money! Thanks again for sharing!
Just play VR Practical shooting by Blobworks bytes if the pricing is to much for ACE
I really think they should've worked with ProVolver, having recoil that is calibrated to the real gun would have been perfect.
I don't know of any firearm analogs that produce 1:1 recoil, to include blanks. Some sort of piston system would be sweet though.
Careful with that headset outside. Direct sunlight can damage the sensors.
I've got a backup just in case. I've had no issues with the outboard sensors. The interior lenses will get smoked tho 😁
The sun light damages the lcd screens by burning them like a magnifying glass if the sun goes in your lenses. It does not hurt the sensors.
The most interesting part is handset - but i did miss info how its setup (its somw sort of hot swap or more time-consuming change?), if its work with other games and apps (i guess not) ans how actually slide movements work.
As substription service its hard no for me. I mayabe would be willing to get it if the handset was compatible with some games and so
Is ready or not iron man mode still continuing?
Compared to GAIM Sport Shooting pistol? HELP. Want to buy something ASAP.
Seems like the kind of thing that would go on the Controlled Pairs channel, no?
Going to do some side-by-side firearm vs sim comparisons over there to examine how sim drills translate to real and if the scores are similar.
Looking forward to some gun science. ❤@@ControlledPairsGaming
a Glock one that fits glock holsters would be dope
For the price, Airsoft Gas Blowback is a better option i think
How much is 150k trigger pulls of CO2? Because that's what I'm at in ACE now lol. Also all the stages, competition, analytics etc.
When are we getting more ironman playthroughs
I am disappointed you didn't compare ACE to MantisX and other competing training systems more directly as a training tool. Any chance of a follow-up video?
I'll do more direct comparisons over on Instagram. Intended for this to be a once over the world for ACE.
Fair enough, but I think it's a key consideration for the target demographic of this product.
Can you run irons? I don’t have a dot on my carry pistol
You can!
Dude. It's a subscription service? Forget that noise.
This is mainly for USPSA
Giving money to subscription models rewards the behavior, ensuring more to come. I mean, if it FEELS fine to subscribe to something, fine, but if it feels like a transgression, a money grab, a shakedown, etc, I wouldn't reward it.
You don't have any subscriptions? Gym membership? Netflix? Range Membership? Nothing?
Actually, none at the moment... I had Prime, but they added ads, and I insta-canceled, b/c they're obviously pushing boundaries. @@ControlledPairsGaming
I like the idea but that's a pricey subscription I just can't justify in my head there are plenty of games that do a pretty good job of helping you work these drills, minus some tech. I'd pay 120 For a deluxe addition. Even buying add ons down the line. Don't think I'd get my moneys worth, Unfortunately. Looks great though I'll check it out in a few years.
It would be incredible if they made a rifle version
I have this one and love it.
Ready or not Ironman awaits 😂
COME PLAY SQUAD 44 AGAIN! 😁🪖
This should be sold like a game, one off payment. Maybe more expensive than other games because of the reduced market but a game none the less.
Not saying it doesn't have value AS a training system but it has much much much more in common with games. A H3VR mod and a 3d printed controller would achieve the same thing. It could also get people into shooting through playing it. It reeks of being made and marketed by boomers
My question would be ( if ) i let my subscription laps, do i lose the whole game ?
Nah you keep basic functionality but lose updates
Plss, play PMC Loudout from Contractors, there's a new map called endless, it seems like ukraine war, really good map and really immersive
Would have bought it but a membership 😅
I feel you. They actually just added a monthly option so you don't have to fork over a year long membership up front.
There is no real weight or dimension to the weapon, not to mention the lack of recoil when fired. So I would treat it more as a fun game.
Are you familiar with dry fire?
@@ControlledPairsGaming Dry fire is practiced on the weapon you will use later in IPSC. I understand that you want to practice dry fire on a plastic toy that weighs almost nothing and has a different trigger pressure. It would make sense if this game had replicas of weapons with the same weight and the same trigger pressure, and the magazines could be replaced in the same way. Something like installing sensors in a weapon replica.
Customs would stop this if i bought this in Australia xD
You think so!? That's wild. I was really hoping there would be a huge euro/Aussie market
@@ControlledPairsGaming Yea man my dad bought a 50cal casing and it got flagged and we don't have toy guns.
It's my dream to shoot pistol matches but it is a rich man sport over here
We have multiple users in Australia! We can get it there
oh my@@Magdumper
Highly doubt it. No force feedback
You dry fire much or nah?
Not gonna lie. I didn't watch the whole video, but I did look up dry firing, and didn't know that was a technique to Improve accuracy. Now that I do..this simulator makes sense.
@ControlledPairsGaming can u just buy the handset…. I will give y’all the $200 just for the handset if I can use it play other games on my Quest 3
Not paying a subscription. There are tools such as mantis that are a buy once cry once. Was very interested until you brought that up
Ready or Not?
They made a terrible decision not to use a Glock version.
They're actively working with gun brands to bring more grip options.
I like the Idea but not the cost.
Some pretty good gun adapters for the Q2 and Q3 out there for $20-30. And a shooter game would run you $20-60. Not $230 a year. . . sorry.
I have most of those adapters and probably all of those games. I wouldn't recommend using them as training tools, though.
@@ControlledPairsGaming I'm just saying, the idea is great, but the cost factor will scare away a lot of ppl.
A 1 time payment with separate fees for the hardware would have been a better and more welcoming solution.
And I find it funny and ironic considering they chose Quest2/3 as their main platform. These headsets are the most popular for a reason - best bang for buck.
I’d love this if it was something I could buy but I won’t subscribe
There's zero reason for this to be a subscription. Having a "DLC" for continued features or additional content is fine, but not being able to purchase it "as is" makes it a hard no.
They really cheaped out by using the meta controller. I would pay for a fully integrated device that at least gives me the ability to rack the slide and drop and reload. Anyone else?
UPDATE: The videos on the ACEXR website show mag drop and slide racking.... Was that a prototype and the production version lost those features?
V1 of the arctus had a slide and mag. They went away from it because it severely impacted reliability and increased cost and it's a vision and trigger trainer not a slide racking mag slapping trainer.
@lledPairsGaming - Thanks for the details. This is the future of dry fire training and I love it. Hopefully in V5 we will see a device that integrates our actual firearm into the mix so we are training on what we own. (I know this is a very, very complex wish :) )
@@johnlovell8299 things are trending that direction! It's only a matter of time before we're using a mantis Blackbeard - like drop in kit to clear our homes in mixed reality for training 💪
@@johnlovell8299 also if you're THE warrior poet, let's talk Ranger stuff and shoot guns sometime 🤣
i think this program should be treated as a game. not a training tool. I think dry fire tools are a huge waste of money and is marketed to take advantage of new shooters. pull your gun out, hit up the range, take a few classes with competition level shooters, join a competition and see what techniques you need to work on to be a good shooter in dry fire, you will quickly find that all these dry fire tools are useless and dont really give you any valueable feedback.
im sure it can be a good tool but 200+ bucks a year is crazy for a vr game. for that price id need constant updates, way better graphics, controllers that match guns 1:1 glocks/sigs/s&w/ect, an actual reload system, just waaaaaay more than whats here. this would be like maybe 50 bucks all together. i already have h3, why not just get a gun controller thing and have a better overall experience/training. this is beyond clearly a cash grab aimed at police departments, trying to trick them into getting subscriptions they will never actually use.
As soon as I hear the word subscription, it’s a no thanks.
You can have all this for free. Why would I pay.
Too pricey.
I’m for covering the cost of the gun, but after a few years, you overspent on a VR game.
I’d be up for buying the gun, then paying like 9$/month or something, but the price seems too steep.
(And the fact they don’t have it for PCVR Index)
idk, airsoft is still a better option to me.
If this wasn't a subscription based product id be all over this... I went through the subscription bs before through the original SIRT pistol systems. Something internally happened in the business and ruined the subscription nonsense to the point I don't even bother with any of it anymore. Regardless of the pros of the product, anything subscription based has the possibility to go sour for the consumer. Iv experienced it first hand and won't ever bother with any subscription product again.
LMAO. 300 USD PER YEAR???
No. Absolutely fucking not. This does not even provide recoil input, no way to holster, no magazines. This is a gimmick. Nothing more, nothing less.
Don't train much?
I HATE SUBSCRIPTION BASED STUFF LIKE THIS. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO HAVE A FORCED SUBSCRIPTION. MAKE A FREE BASE VERSION WITH THE OPTION TO SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE CONTENT. TOTAL GARBAGE. I CAN 3D PRINT THE SAME KIND OF GUN OFF OF THINGIVERSE OR THANGS AND JUST USE HALF-LIFE ALYX MODS, OR GAMES LIKE CONTRACTORS OR PAVLOV SHACK TO TARGET PRACTICE AND TRAIN. OR BETTER YET, BUT A LASER TRAINING SYSTEM THAT HAS A PHONE APP THAT TRACKS YOUR SHOTS WITHOUT A SUBSCRIPTION.
😂😂😂 just buy airsoft and train at home. Stop woth the expensive crap that is worthless
Oof
Subscription 🤮
How do you manipulate the slide and the slide release?
Unfortunately no real slide manipulation. You can pull the joystick back if you need to use it. The mag release functions as intended and you slap the bottom of the mag well to complete reloads after depressing the mag release. V1 of the handset had a mag that partially slid out and had to be slapped back in as well as a legit slide. However these parts were prone to breaking and found not to be critical to the core training value of the tool: vision, transitions, trigger press, grip etc.