OBS "Skipped Frames Due to Encoding Lag" Fix
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- Опубліковано 12 жов 2021
- I've been streaming and making videos with OBS for over two years now, and while the streaming has been going fairly well for the most part, in the past few months, I have come across a problem with my recorded videos being very choppy to point they were unwatchable.
I took a look at the stats in OBS to see that after recording for about a minute, my "Skipped frames due to encoding lag" stat would spike into the red for no discernible reason. I have a nice PC and mostly record console game footage, so the issue certainly wasn't with the CPU.
After consulting the elders of the internet and tweaking literally every single setting OBS has to offer, I realized the solution was simpler than I was making it out to be: THE HARD DRIVE!
I realized that my old hard disk drive just wasn't fast enough to keep up with the encoding speeds of my PC. So, I got a $50 SSD and rerouted my OBS videos to a file on the SSD, and voila! No more skipped frames at all!
I was really shocked at the total lack of helpful info regarding this problem, which means I'm either just a total idiot (which is highly likely), or it's just a very specific problem that few people have come across. If you're one of those people, please consider subscribing.
Enjoy!
#OBS #Encoding #Fix
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You are lifesaver man. I never even considered that this was what was causing my encoding issue. But sure enough, this was the solution for me. Thanks a lot, can't wait to record more now without frame skips!!
It's a maddening problem, so I'm glad I could help!
This didn’t happen until i updated OBS. How do you check which drive the folder is routed to?
Click on Settings > Output > Recording > Record Path to select where you want to save the recordings.
Absolute lifesaver of a video, thank you so much, this issue was driving me INSANE! I was recording at 1080p30 and kept getting stutters and was confounded beyond words. I have a Ryzen 7 3700x and an Rtx 2060 so I KNEW it was in no way my PC being too weak. I did a test just after watching this and sure enough, after switching over to the SSD recording path I went from 150 missed frames an hour to 19 (and it was only a light spike when it happened).
God bless this video ❤️
Glad it helped!
I just figured this issue out myself after I saw similar responses about the encoding lag. I felt like my machine was capable of recording and playing games well, but I it made sense that the disc drive can't keep up. You did a great job explaining this!
Thanks! I'm glad you fixed your problem.
Thank you so much dude! This was the exact fix I needed.
I'm glad it was helpful!
lmoa zulushi
Well this just makes me even more confused. I see you a helped a lot of people so thank you, but for me this didn't help. I am using a Ryzen 9 5900X, videos are saved on a high speed m.2 ssd, and yesterday i didn't have any issues. I streamed, i recorded and they were smooth, but today it drops frames like crazy. My CPU usage doesn't even go above 50%. I'm really lost as to what caused this. I didn't change any settings.
Edit: i saw a comment on rescale output, i don't have that checked either.
Edit 2: For those who seem to have the same problem with no fix, it turns out that my issues was somehow GPU overload even with encoder lag, because i use my 3080 as the encoder. Try this: Settings > Output > Recording > Change that P thingy to P5 if it's on 6 and what made the big difference for me was changing multi pass to single (maybe you can even try off if still laggy)
Sorry the video couldn't help your problem, but I'm glad you were able to figure it out!
Sounds awesome! 👏 😎 🤩 glad you got this figured out!
Bro this helped me SO much. Thank you! Definitely got a new sub!
Thanks! I'm happy it worked for you too.
This was the most simplest fix. Thank you!🙏🏾
You're welcome! I'm glad it helped.
you're brilliant for this, so much love goes out to you as this ended my 3+ hour troubleshooting session
Haha! I’m glad it worked for you too.
@@JamesLovesGames It's much appreciated, say, what game was that you were playing in the video? It's art style looks great
It was Ghost of Tsushima Director's Cut on PS5, one of my all-time favorites. I highly recommend it.
Thanks man! This saved my live and recordings!!!
This issue can happen even with SSD. For those streamers that come here looking for a solution, but already have an SSD or a 3090Ti like I have, and the GPU is at 100%, and the "Skipped frames due to encoding lag" is nearly 100%. This comment is for you. The issue obviously can't be resolved as described if you already have SSD. I found the issue to be related to a single check box setting. OBS > Settings > Output > Streaming|Recording > Rescale Output = UNCHECKED! If you check the rescale output it will crush the GPU, even a 3090Ti. I'm Streaming|Recording at 3840x2160 and so rescaling the output to 3840x2160 was not necessary. In this configuration it increases the GPU load for no added benefit. However the symptom is the same as described in this video. So for those that have fast systems and still see this issue, check your OBS Output Settings for both Streaming and Recording, whichever you're doing, and try to uncheck "Rescale output."
I'm having the issue and ONLY streaming - not recording. I don't have a "rescale output" option. ---- Well now I found it! Have to first change (at top of output window) the output mode to advanced
@@kiterway3592 Streaming|Recording == Streaming OR Recording. It shouldn't matter if you are doing one or the other because rescaling is happening regardless. Now that you found the setting, it's important to let us know if it was 1) Enabled or Disabled 2) Did disabling the setting resolve your issue? Please document your findings for the rest of the community. Thanks for your help!
I was having this issue as well but already have a SSD. It is weird my recordings would start off with no issues but once I got to a minute or two into the recording is when the skipped frames due to encoding lag would happen. I tried many different things to fix it to no avail. So I went to the settings as you described and my rescale output was unchecked so I changed it to checked and that seemed to help a lot! About 10 minutes into my video I had my average time to render go up in the orange numbers as well as my frames missed due to rending lag. It might have been cause by the game I was playing but when I reviewed the video I could not noticed any difference from the start of the video to the end so whatever caused it did not seem to mess up the recording.
THANKS SO MUCH MAN ive been searchin for days, everyone said i should lower the cpu usage but i never tought my hdd was the issue
Great! I’m so glad it helped.
Bro! Thank you very much for this. I'm gonna go find out if this will solve my issue
Thanks man as simple as the fix was it help with encoding lag after i tried everything..thanks
I'm glad it worked for you!
I bought an EVGA XR1 Lite capture card and everything works fine. However when playing games like Animal Crossing: New Horizons off my capture card through OBS, not even recording sometimes I see lag spikes. Every second I see a tiny, yet annoying pause that is constant. Can range from a single second, to 20 seconds until going back to normal. I get about 20-54 skipped frames due to encoding lag in the span of 13 minutes with recording. My CPU and GPU do not spike at all, both get around at max 50%, and the low around 20% for my GPU, and 2% for my CPU. Is it the HDMI cables I'm using, or is it the card? It's a tiny problem, but I get very annoyed that the FPS isn't smooth the entire time. The only other app I have running is Google Chrome, and that does eat a lot of RAM, but with it on it's at 39% with OBS on not recording. I don't want to revert my recordings to a 720P 30FPS stream, I'd like keep recording and viewing my capture card's stream in 1080P 60FPS, but how can I fix this issue?
This absolutely worked! Thank you so much for the tip this was the only thing that worked for me after months of trying different things!
I'm glad it helped!
you are the absolute best humain being on this earth. i have been putting the video on my external ssd, as soon as i started putting in my main ssd it went from 720p 30fps super laggy to 1080p 60 fps no lagg at all. thx you so much
i was getting this same issue (while my recordings are routed to an nvme ssd)
what i had to do was reinstall obs outside of a program files folder (directly onto my C:/ drive) and for whatever reason that sorted it for me
i was very confused but im glad that fixed it
I have heard of other people having that problem as well. I guess having it on the same drive as windows makes it run better. 🤷🏻♂️
Dude your a G dude. I was looking for a solution to this for 2 days man. Fixed my whole issue with just this video I greatly appreciate it 🙌🏿
I'm happy it worked for you too!
That was my exact issue! Thank you so much!
Glad it helped!
Can confirm switching from my HDD to an SSD fixed my encoding and rendering lag. Thank you. I just knew that my i7 CPU and 2070 in a separate streaming pc couldn't be the problem. Now I need to buy a larger SSD.
I had a suspicion this was my issue, though the real confusion was that it wasnt an issue in the past on the same drive, i think my drive being a few years older is deteriorating and a fresh hdd might not have this issue, my encoding lag frames were much smaller than yours but still just as noticeable. But its super nice to have confirmation on something, appreciate the to the point video. tyvm
I'm glad it could help you! It was definitely the last thing I thought of.
@@JamesLovesGames I was able to confirm it was some issue with the age of the drive, now that I knew what I was looking for. I dug out an old video file that didn't have the problem from when the drive was new and the meta data showed it was recorded at 35000kbps bitrate, now I get 1-10 encoding lag frames at a time sporadically with my bit rate at 15000 for recording on that drive.
That makes sense. Nice detective work there!
Thank you so much. I haven't tested it yet but I'm confident that's the issue. This has been driving me nuts. My system ssd is kidda small so I'll probably record to that and than copy over to my harddrive after the fact. I stream and record at the same time and record a higher quality video for the recording than the stream, and there are moments where the recording drops a few frames and freezes but the stream does not freeze at all
I'm glad it worked for you too!
This video is a life saver. I wasted a month trying to figure this out. Got expensive pro grade capture cards... Nothing worked. Thanks a lot. Does it matter if it's a SATA SSD vs nvme SSD? I plan on 16 hour recordings at 1080p in lossless nvenc, max quality. Thanks
SATA SSDs by themselves are already super fast, so an NVME would be total overkill. Also, I've never tested one out, so I can't really say. I hope that helps?
@@JamesLovesGames Thanks a lot. I tested with an nvme and lost a few frames over long recordings. It seems like OBS does not have a buffer when writing and if it just so happens that once in a while a frame is not written in 1/60 second for a 60FPS video, then its skipped even though the drive & encoder is capable of more than that.
@@thegreatskywalker
What do you recommend the ssd or the nvme, I appreciate your guidance
I'm having this issue, but with streaming, not recording. Sending NDI over my network to my streaming PC. My video card is a 2070 Super, Ryzen 5, so I thought I should be able to handle streaming at highest quality encoding while playing graphically intensive games, but maybe not.
@james love games, do u have video for streaming through ps5 with elgato. I have tried 1080 60fps Or 720p 60fps but with motion it gets blurry. I am from India and using 100mbps connection which when divided by 8 or 12 is 10 -12 mbps download nd upload nd using elgato with obs to stream.
Great vid👍🏾
OMG THANK YOU SO MUCH IT HELPED ALOTTTTTT
EXACTLY my issue! thank you!
I'm glad it worked!
I'm having this issue as well. I have a 4 bay NAS - RAID 5 @ 650MB/Sec Writes - 880MB/Sec Reads. - I will try my 2GB solid state drive. Thanks for your Video!!!
I am facing this issue when recording games from ps5 through elgato. I used 4k utility and obs and it happened no matter what as I am using hdd with good write speed. Although I had 0.2% skipped frames but it was irritating.I tried this setting for 5 - 10minutes and it worked, I am gonna try recording on my ssd for longer and see again.
Hopefully this will fix the “ My audio is messed up” thing too
I think that’s a separate issue, but one can hope! 😅
for me problem is encode in nvenc hevc (nvenc h.264 works well) but i have 3080ti... this should not be a problem i want to record clips in hevc because thats why i buy a frickin ampere gpu
great advice! thank you
I searched high and low and could not find a fix UNTIL this video!!!
Happy to help!
i've had this problem recently, turns out it's not because of the HDD but the GPU usage is peaking 99% because i didn't put the game in vsync
idk why the game isn't laggy but the recording is (game is csgo)
I spent like 3 hours recording Corpse Party and it completely skipped. Now I can't even get the name tags to show and I can't delete my game data. I can't open my files and I get the pop-up that it doesn't have the application to preform this task or whatever. I've literally tried everything to fix that and nothing works. So, I can't just go into the files to delete the data and restart the game. If I go back though and look at d*ad bodies the names tags don't pop up again.
And I noticed the steam version is different than when I played it on my ps4. The wrong end screens pop up like they should and after the 1st chapter the menu music changed.
Someone please explain to me how to send obs recordings to ssd. (Im new to computers and have this problem)
What are your OBS recording and streaming settings? Great video!
Thanks! The settings are kind of a lot to type out here, and somewhat dependent on your system specs. Is there anything in particular you're needing help with?
@@JamesLovesGames Encoder settings
My encoder setting for recording are
Rate Control: CRF
CRF: 15
Keyframe Interval: 0s
CPU Usage Preset: veryfast
Profile: none
Tune: none
I hope that helps? I haven't look at these settings in quite a long time, but stuff keeps working, so I guess they're ok.
Appreciate it man
do you think a 7200rpm hdd is enough? or should i get a new ssd? Thanks.
I'm going to say that SOUNDS fast enough, but I would definitely look around for more info elsewhere because I am NOT any kind of expert on this stuff. This is what just worked for me, and to be fair, the HDD I was using was very old (I already chucked it so don't know how fast it was.), so it could be that a faster HDD would have worked for me. I hope that helps!
i have a i3 intel graphic family with SSD and 4GB RAM but in my case it still gives 90-100% skipped frames and encoding lag :(
A UA-camr telling other UA-camrs how to UA-cam better... So meta 😄
We support each other. 🫂
Thannk you SO MUCH dude. I bought an SSD on amazon and used it and NO MORE SKIPPED FRAMES!!!. your a legend dude. HDD's suck lol
Glad I could help! HDDs are definitely old tech.
THANK YOU SO MUCH BROTHER
You're welcome!
I have a MacBook pro and I'm trying to create sports reactions videos but I continue to have lag. Do you think the issue is the hard drive?
I haven't had any luck finding anything on UA-cam to correct this issue. Thanks
I don't have much experience with Macs, but I'm fairly certain a Mac Book Pro would have the hardware to render video in OBS just fine. You might look at recommended hard drive speeds for recording in OBS (I know that info is online somewhere), and see if yours meets the demand. I would also try recording a video to an external SSD if you have one available just to see if it works as a next step, but keep in mind your connection type (USB 2.0, 3.0, SATA) will also factor into the write speed. You should also look into the 'Rate Control' you have selected in Recording settings on OBS, which will affect the quality of the recording and might make a difference in performance, and there are thousands on tutorial videos on rate control on YT. I hope that helps!
@@JamesLovesGames ok thank you sir I'll look into this.
Does this actually help with streaming as well? I rarely ever record, but I stream primarily. It seems like I'm having the same issue and I've done literally everything I can for my cpu and gpu
If you are recording at the same time you are streaming, which many people do, this should help. But if you're only streaming, it probably wouldn't help with that.
I'm having the problem as well and only stream - don't record
Wait how dog yk change the thing? I’m confused on we’re to find it.
For some people it might be different, but I record with streamlabs obs and this type of thing was happening to me. I found an easy solution that worked for me. I went into the settings of streamlabs obs, then I went into output. Then I went under the recording section and changed the encoder settings to "Software (x264 low CPU usage preset, increases file size)". I'm not sure what any of that means, but it fixed the skipped frames. Hope this helps.
Well I hoped that this might fix my issue, since it apparently already saves to an SSD, but that option doesn't even show up for me. So I'm still at a loss as to how to fix it.
@@Chris_Cross Read my other comment. The issue is with "Rescale Output". You need to disable that and test again. That's what is causing my 3090Ti to drop 100% due to encoding lag.
@@redlinejoes I do not have the rescale output available (perhaps because I'm not recording)
how do u change it? someone tell me please
for me it still doesnt work also it records at 240 fps and gets saved at 24 fps how do i change that
what do i do if this is my problem with streaming? i get around 98% skipped frames due to encoding lag. have any tips?
What if I already have a SSD?
I guess it works for kingston hard drive, I use to have hp notebook laptop and I bought a ssd kingston. Its works great recording until the laptop broke and i still have my hard drive I'm not gonna install in my new laptop because I'm afraid it might delete everything I record. I got a new computer with AMD and I using ssd Samsung hard drive it lags like crazy and I'm getting frustrated trying to figure it out. Until I found your video the streaming really works great. Thanks you so much!
how do i rewrite the harddrive thingy?
How do i switch to SSD??
Got this when streaming, I tried out multistelreaming.
Started my UA-cam stream & everything was fine until I hit the button to go live on Twitch.
I am writing to an HDD.
AMD Radeon RX550
*Streaming*
CBR 3000 kbps Birate(audio + video)
720p
*Recording*
CQP 20
1080p
Idk if it's that it can't handle 2 streams and a recording or if it's where the recording is writing to.
It seems to me that streaming to two different platforms at the same time AND recording it would definitely create some problems. I've never tried that before, so I'm not sure where your problem is. I would just try lots of tests to find out which of the three things is causing the problem.
it worked thanks
this is the exact opposite of my issue. When I record everything is clear, but when I stream, the bitrates all over the place and the stream ends up skipping at random parts.
You could experiment with different bitrates (all streaming platforms have recommended settings) and also try a variable bitrate as well. Sometimes I have trouble when streaming, and it's almost always something on the end of my ISP, so you could contact them as well to see if there are any issues.
Also, for a more worry-free solution, you could try the auto-configure tool set for streaming, which usually works pretty well for me.
Gonna Give it a try!! Hope it that's simple!!
TY
I hope it works for you.
@@JamesLovesGames So far 2 for 2 with no issues!!!!
TY
THANK YOU SO MUCH!! (sorry for yelling) I thought I was going insane big like on this one 👍
Thanks! I appreciate your enthusiasm.
you yes you you're a lifesaver for mi video on youtube thanks bro
No problem 👍
Bro!! I am changing back to SSD right now. I have been trying all kind of settings for months but nothing worked.
Now that you mention it I did change my vids output folder from my SSD to my HDD.!!
Trying this now.
IT WOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRKKKKKEEEEEDDDDDDDDD. Thank you bro.
How come he is the only person on the web to give this solution!! That's insane
It’s such a small thing most people wouldn’t consider. I’m glad it helped you too!
Mines the opposite, I can run other games just fine but once I run rainbow six it gets superrrrr choppy, I have a computer the meets well over the requirements
Sadly didn't change anything for me. I have massive frame skips due to encoding lag on both my HDD (about 40-50%) as well as my SSD (about 25-30%). Doesn't matter where I save the recording.
Sorry to hear that! I hope you can figure it out.
I only have C drive, what do I do?
getting this issue after updating obs I use to have my videos saved to an SSD too and still problems but before updating it was just fine
Me too
OBS running on one SSD, recording on to another SSD. CPU usage 0.51%, frames missed due to rendering: 0, frames skipped due to encoding: 0. Skipping: like crazy! :(
I don't record any gameplay yet I get 88% skipped frames while streaming.
1Gbps fiber, RTX 3080 as the encoder and no matter what I do it lags like crazy.
I think obs is just crap maybe? or maybe I need to upgrade to an RTX 4080 or something -_-
anyone knows if i can fix the video itself? 'cause i recorded and 1 and a half hour video, and the audio is ok, but the frames like freeze sometimes
idk if that means that the frames werent recorded and theres no way of getting them back or not
I don’t know of any way to fix a video that already has stuttering frames, sorry.
Im getting this issue and im using a laptop with a elgato hd60s capture card
didn't work for some reason... still 98% skipped frames
I have tried lots of things and nothing works. I've got an rtx 3060ti and ryzen 5 5600x. I did everything you said and my Skipped frames is at 99.9%. Same with frames missed due to rendering lag. Please help :)
Whoa! 99.9% skipped frames is beyond my capabilities I think. I would make sure all your hardware is installed correctly and double check the exports are going to the SSD. Other than that I don't really have much advice.
did you ever manage to fix this? if so please let me know how.
can someone help me my recordings lags a lot because of skipped frames but i cant understand what u do in the video to fix because im not a native english speaker
I upgraded my hard disk drive to a solid state drive. The hard disk was too slow to keep up with the recording speed. I hope that helps!
Brooooo thank you!!
Thaaaank youuuuuu I would never have figured this out lol
This is man is a god amongst mortals lol
Help Please.. I'm getting like 60% encoding lag, I don't even have a hdd I only have an ssd so not really sure what to fix here..
Sounds like a CPU problem, could be RAM or honestly the GPU as well. I'm certainly not an expert, this just worked for me.
I'd make sure your settings are alright. There are too many to list here, but I'd check YT for proper OBS settings if you haven't already. Sorry, I couldn't be more helpful.
can you show me how to make an SSD folder
I'm not quite sure what you mean. Can you elaborate?
I have the encoding lag everytime I Stream
This didn't work... Running a Samsung EVO 870 SATA 3 SSD
Okay this is great and all but I've been using an SSD this whole time and I still get skipped frames. I need help bro😢
I'm no expert; this is just what worked for me. If it isn't your CPU, SSD or GPU, unfortunately, I don't really have a solution for you.
Ok, well hearing you're playing the games on the same PC makes me think that might be it. I only really stream or record console games, so I don't have that issue. Some more RAM might help, but I can't say for sure. I'm certainly no expert, the SSD is just what worked for me.
Hopes this helps me, subbed and turned on notifications!
Thanks! Let me know if it works!
Would this work with a portable hdd?
Your miles may vary, but I started out using a portable SSD that would give me corrupted video files after a few weeks of regular use, despite them recording without skipped frames during that time. I switched to a SATA connection and it has worked flawlessly ever since. A portable HDD might work, provided it is fast enough, but SSDs are cheap enough now to make it a no-brainer.
@@JamesLovesGames I used my 1TB portable/external HDD and it worked, Thanks!
I have a 5200 RPM HDD and in a 30 Minutes record from a Megaman Style game (Gunvolt 3), i have
Rendering Lag 10/345790 Frames (0.0%)
Enconding Lag 10/340888 Frames (0.0%)
I think, anything below 0.5% its ok.
I often see very small amounts like this when I stream or record as well, and I don't think that it will make any discernible difference in the output.
does anyone know a fix to this: When I stop recording and go back to watch my records, they're lagging, yet when I'm recording, everything is smooth.
its only in windows, in sony vegas or smthing like that it will run smoothly, dont worry
@@durvis1 no its really lagging even if I snapdropped the vod on my phone
@@zar5637 turn on stats in obs, if it will be not laggy in the stats, it will be ok, my videos in windows player or how tf its called are laggy too, try to upload smthing on youtube, if it wi not be laggy on it, its ok
I’m already using an ssd and it’s still there
Well, unfortunately I don't have a solution for you. I'm certainly not an expert in OBS, this is just what worked for me personally.
Oh my god this hilarious to me cause Im playing the same game on my 3080ti and 5900x, now its fine tho I managed to get by with my set up sending it to hardrive with arkham knight gameplay
Is there a way to fix with Hard Disc Drive?
Some modern HDDs are probably fast enough to render properly, but I'm not sure exactly how fast they would need to be. It would probably depend on what other hardware you are using.
@@JamesLovesGames Thanks for taking time to reply, but I'm getting a SSD drive soon anyway.
Will it work in my pc ?
Specs
Intel Pentium g2010 2.80ghz
128gb ssd
12gb ram
64 Bit
no graphics card ???
Probably? If you're trying to record PC games without a graphics card, that will prove difficult, but otherwise, it SHOULD work.
@@JamesLovesGames i want to record emulator games can I do so ?
Well crap... It is already routed to an SSD. Thought I had found how to fix it.
Now what...
I wish I could help, this was just what worked for me personally.
if you did fix this problem, please let me know how you did it.
@@Asky001 The problem was fixed by my whole computer carking it lol
you lost me at rerouting to a solid state drive
I could just kiss you, man. Thank you!!!
That’s Weird mine was the opposite I had to change from using ssd back to hdd and now my recordings are way smoother
Update - I play the video the first time and it’s smooth but the second time and so on it get choppy and stutter but the audio is fine I’m losing my mind dawg I tried it both on the ssd and hdd and I can’t fix it
Another update it was the media player I was using that was the problem I used a different one and it actually looks smooth obs wasn’t the problem at all
Weird! But I'm glad you were able to figure it out.
My cpu says %7.0. Is that bad?!
I honestly don't think 7% is anything to worry about. If you're having skipped frames at 7%, then your CPU definitely isn't the problem.
I’m the same way with recording and streaming
Idk what to keep my bitrate at.. I had mine at 2000
I have no idea what encoding to use I have a nividia in my laptop so do I use nividia encoding or stream encoding
It depends on how fast your internet is. I would say you should use whatever UA-cam or Twitch recommends, which is pretty easy to find online. If you have problems, just lower it until it works for your speed. Just for an example, I have my streaming bitrate at 6,500 kbps.
@@JamesLovesGames just figured it out, I switched it to x264 and set my bitrate to 5000
Again it depends on your setup. I have a not-so-great video card, but a really fast CPU, so I have my encoding set to x264, which is the CPU. I also stream mostly console games instead of PC games, so my CPU is never in danger of getting overloaded.
I would like to ask for your hand in marriage, and for someone to copy paste the link to this video under every other tutorial for this so that people can get this ACTUAL information
Unfortunately I'm already taken, Caleb, but I appreciate your enthusiasm!
@@JamesLovesGames That's too bad
Hi
Hello!
me its 99% usage bruh
same
its with my streaming and not the recording though