11 years later and I still vividly remember all of these videos. I remember in school, spending literal weeks straight watching the playlist of Extra Credits without pausing except to go to the bathroom. The amount of advice and information within these videos enticed my child mind completely and I attribute a lot of my views and practices for game development to Extra Credits. An honest thank you to everyone who worked on these videos to give me invaluable insight for over half a decade. I may have long moved on from this channel's content, but I certainly have not forgotten how great it used to be
@@V_For_Vigilante As he is one of the most well know video game directors of all time, who's games are highly successful. I wish I could suck even 25% as much as him.
Been watching this channel for over 8 years. Can’t explain the nostalgia I feel watching this video. Thank you for the years of content you’ve provided.
It's really strange to me that story is a secondary consideration in this industry. My game ideas usually start with some mechanics, but as soon as I start working on characters - usually the second thing I do - I start working out the story too. That way, I'm working on all parts at once, developing them together as one game, not as parts of a whole. I find it really hard to imagine trying to retroactively add a story to a game that's almost finished. That's like making a suit, then trying to find someone who fits in it, instead of making a suit to fit yourself.
Note that I'm not saying one person has to do everything - that's just how I roll. But if I was building a design team, first I would build the whole team first, not hire a writer half-way through. I would also put my team in one room if possible, and at least ensure that the team is constantly communicating. I've often found that working on the story will give me ideas for new gameplay elements and vice-versa, which makes the whole game more cohesive.
Another thing I try to consider when writing is the role of items, upgrades, etc., in the story. It's always nice to get a new upgrade, but if it's just sitting there, with no context, that's all it is - nice to have. But in games like RPGs, you have to quest for your items. Your sword has a name and a back-story. Maybe it has a personality of its own. If the player has to earn that item - if that item means something in that world - then the item will mean more to the player as well.
Nionivek The type of game certainly makes a difference. Frankly, some fighting games would be better without a convoluted story. (So, Chun Li works for InterPol and Bison has a criminal empire, but who needs guns, right? Let's just punch each other a lot!) Then, of course, there are the 1000+ "save the princess" games like Mario and Zelda, where the premise is the whole plot. That said though, a good story only makes a game better. Binding of Isaac could have been a simple "save your own ass" Zelda rip-off, and it would have still been fun, but the story defined the aesthetic of the game, which is one of its strongest elements.
Well, given that the first games were made mechanics-first-who in their right minds would tell a story of a sprinting hedgehog or a druggy plumber... though female space marine's a good start-and those people are still active in the industry, it could just be a generational thing.
I am not a fan of Final Fantasy X, but the "bad acting" in that particular cut-scene was INTENTIONAL. They were FAKE LAUGHING in the cut-scene and it was SUPPOSED to be terrible. If you watch the remainder of the scene, you see they begin to laugh at their silliness and the voice acting goes back to "bearable". Yeesh.
THANK YOU This is my biggest pet peeve as I see people bringing this up as an example of 'bad voice-acting' all the time. Was there bad voice acting in that game? Sure. But that scene has been taken out of context. It's sad.
Garrett Compton Indeed! Frankly, I never considered the voice acting in Final Fantasy X to be bad whatsoever, but sometimes one must accept a particular premise, even an erroneous one, for the sake of relating to his audience; therefore, I have agreed that the voice acting was "bearable". I wonder if the persons disseminating the false belief that this scene is an example of bad voice acting have ever actually played the game, or if they are only parroting what many have told them.
64UPAllGOD You lost me. I admit that, although I love video games (although I'm always sorta searching for that game that does that thing that I have always wanted, which I will not explain presently) I am not really into gaming "culture". It strikes me as pedantic, and frivolous; therefore, I have no idea if you are making a reference to, like, Portal, or if you are just being clever and going over my head.
"Plot contradicts gameplay..." Almost every JRPG. So your character can summon demons and angels, reshape entire landscapes and slice a million objects into a billion pieces... But we can't get out of a fucking jail cell? NOPE.
power levels in JRPGs aren't to be taken seriously but only for eyecandy and amusement. not being able to escape from a prison cell teaches players that not all problems can be solved by raw physical power. it's all about the philosophy.
Mysticsloth Not being able to escape from a cell teaches players a lesson? Give them so much credit, why don't you. It is for story reasons and no more. The disconnect between story and combat is there, and not excused because they "aren't meant to be taken seriously"
Can we address the unnoticed complexity of the laughing scene in FFX? There's actually a reason it's stilted. One other person has mentioned it here, but it happens at a point in the story where the group of adventurers has witnessed the entire destruction of a city and hasn't yet come to terms with it. The entire conversation is indicative of a sub-plot you don't find til later. Yuna asks Tidus to smile on their journey, because forcing that emotion is the only way to move on. She wants to bring happiness to Spira. It isn't til you find that Yuna will sacrifice herself to bring that happiness that Tidus is so upset. That entire moment must have been absurd to everyone else. Tidus was the only one that didn't know what was going to happen. God it drives me crazy when this moment is brought up as a moment of bad voice-acting when its intent was to be hollow. This is definitely one of the better moments of voice acting.
The very best environmental storytelling I have ever seen was in Dark Souls. In Anor Londo, the city of giant god-like beings, there is a cathedral castle thing. Before the entrance lies a staircase. Running in the middle of the staircase is a set of steps for beings about twice the size of humans, while squashed to the sides of the staircase are human-sized stairs. Think about that and all its implications. The devs could have just put Black Iron Tarkus there and made him say "the giants oppressed the humans" but instead they killed Tarkus ( the bastards) and made you examine stairs.
We're going to start distributing our back catalog of episodes in more places over the next few months. Penny Arcade TV will still have exclusivity on the newest episodes, but you'll start seeing the classic ones on UA-cam, Blip and numerous others. Enjoy!
2:20 "the ever popular good or evil bar" is a one-dimensional moral choice meter with positive and negative values, not two-dimensional. I imagine someone else said this already but I'm late to the party.
Yeah, all they did was add in a few spoilt mechanics which you can only use occasionally(dodge, sprint, thermite guns), make all of the assets that you ultimately went to and ONLY then did they write a script which was as stale as mouldy bread.
***** Okay.1886 creators thought they could make a game with very little gameplay and compensate with quick time events to know that the player is awake and still paying attention. because by the end it became nothing but a movie with chapters that were a cut-scene themselves and the gameplay and mechanics were basically vanishing as the mechanics didn't got a chance to shine completely for the little gameplay they got.
+PokeMaster22222 He wasn't being literal about it. He was saying the people who made The Order 1886 ignored the idea behind what Dan was saying, not ignoring the actual video.
Yup, definitely seeing them not suffering from many of the problems since indie development is more often than not neither time constrained nor writer excluded early on.
@@arocomisgamusclademork1603 Pokemon Mystery Dungeon is the exception to this, I think. As well as Conquest, and a few other ones. They can have quite good stories.
Hidetaka miyazaki once said:"the narrative of your game should not be held captive by it's cutscenes","the greatest tool of narrative is the world you create for it to exist in" also he said:"a well designed world could tell it's story in silence".
I came back here after hearing that Dan was stepping down and I can't believe it's been so long. Hearing Dan's voice every week had become such a reliable part of my schedule that I didn't even notice how much it's changed over the years. Not only did the voice get better, but the pace of the narration and how engaging the show was improved so much. I'm looking forward to our new narrator and wish you guys all the best in your new endeavours. I can't wait for the Extra Frames series to come back!
+SkitHertz This literally the entire point. It's literally explained by Yuna. She forces her self to laugh and smile in order to get through all the pain. So what Tidus and Yuna end up doing is forcing the laughter to present real laughter because of how ridiculous it sounds to force yourself to be happy. Instead, take comfort with people around you, and know that your friends are with you.
+SkitHertz Not only that, but in universe, the rest of the party is like, "What the hell is wrong with you guys?" And, in a game that has probably 10 hours of cut scenes and voice acting, they point to that one 15 second clip taken out of context. If you watch the entire scene throughout, after they fake laugh, they actually laugh right after it. There are additional scenes in the game where the delivery is off. I love James Arnold Taylor, but when he yells at the rest of the party in Home, his delivery is pretty bad. A bit too melodramatic.
Tara Strong's Rikku I feel is the only main character in that game that consistently was performed excellently. A balance of a lot of personality traits into a nuanced performance. And while FFX isn't as bad as its reputation would claim, a lot of experienced performers sound off or miscast due to off direction and mediocre localization.
That is one thing that irks me. Most of the time the voice actors themselves aren't inept, it is a result of mediocre voice acting due to mediocre voice direction from the development staff, or trying to cut corners and not get good voice actors. I actually thought everyone in FFX did a great job. There were some moments of poor delivery, but the cast didn't receive the best tools to work with, mainly because this was Square's first major foray into voice acting, and they didn't quite anticipate how much work would go into it. Put simply, they didn't provide the American voice cast with the best tools, (like finalized pieces of the game) so the American cast had to imagine what the setting and scenario was most of the time.
A very good example where Narrative actually works and is done by a novelist is the first Max Payne game. Yes, it's full of pseudo-philosophy, one liners and "mature" content, but it really fits the action-shooter gameplay and the overall story. And the bits describing "Noir York City" are brillant, as they are scattered through ctuscenes, gameplay, artwork, television news, banter of NPCs, TV shows etc.
***** It's been a few years, I forget. I think she went off to college or graduate school or something. It was only briefly mentioned in passing though, and the art style didn't noticeably change, so it'd be hard to find.
ThePCguy17 It was Extra Credits: Intrinsic vs Extrinsic posted on March 28th, 2013 Season 6 Episode 6. Dang it's been a long time, it was due to her job and she couldn't balance it so she left, we've been waiting for almost 4 years but she hasn't come back yet. I don't blame her though I just miss having her on the team
James Taylor is a fantastic va and that scene in ffx as anybody who has actually played the game would know is done purposefully and fits the context of how characters are feeling. Tidus is literally forcing himself to laugh to show Yuna.
I feel like Kid Icarus Uprising and The Last of Us nailed this. The stories alone were fantastic, but the narrative and dialogue made the characters, environments, and mechanics pure gaming gold
"You can't write a movie script the same way you would write a novel..." As someone who writes both stories and scripts for fun, I wish more people would understand this. "Just use the book for the script!!!!1!!" Please, please stop saying this.
I'm surprised. THIS is Extra Credits Episode 1? Wow, it's just as good as the other ones! It's the first time i saw a show or channel being literally failproof even at the very beginning! Seriously, you guys are something i should have checked earlier.
"Video games are a fundamentally different medium from all other mass media to date. You can't just write for it using old techniques" Said no Kojima ever.
Weird. I always thought that It was a rule in Final Fantasy that dying in combat just meant your characters were unconscious as a way to skirt around the disconnect between story and gameplay.
The FFX thing only spread as an example of "bad voice acting" because it got shared by those who saw it out of context. Nobody who played the game could have missed that it's intentionally forced; even ignoring the characters' setting and relationship, the fact that they laugh _perfectly naturally_ in the very next line is proof enough.
hahaha... ya you are right. FFX was like the very first game that tried voice acting back then.. so they hired some crappy voice actors who don't appreciate video games. i'm sure the Japanese voice actors were a lot better though since they take anime/game industry very seriously
Matt The English dub was pretty good all around, and totally faithful to the original Japanese in that forced-laughing scene (which sounds just as awkward in both languages--again, that was the point). /watch?v=mAgVjH9V9Ps
And here I was thinking I could go to college as a creative writing major and try and weasel myself into a game's development to help them fix up these terrible endings we've been getting.
What I wish they would do after every episode is give a short list of games that do [insert video topic] exceptionally well. I know they have a few games scattered throughout but I'd really love to see a "Top 3" list or something. Love your stuff guys. I've been on a recent Extra Credits binge, and I'm no where close to a Game Designer.
+Dokwart Yeah, Bloodlines is easily one of the best games in this regard. Brian Mitsoda, the game's (main?) writer just did a perfect job there. I think RPS did an interview with him where he said some really insightful things about the writing process for the game.
What an effed-up process to bring in the writers near the very end of the game-creating process. Many people play games for the story. Few people play games only for gameplay, and those that do are usually playing sports or combat/fighting games.
princessthyemis So do I! I love amazing stories despite the medium. From what I'm learning, though, game developers focus on levels and gameplay first and then tack on writing near the very end to give the game some sort of weak context, which is why most game stories are so bad. That makes absolutely no sense, though. Why wouldn't you include the story into the earliest phases of a game? If done well, it could result in a truly amazing experience that could seriously raise the game's reputation as well as make them truly memorable above the abundance of mediocre games.
Marc Gonzàlez Pereira True, but once you have the audience, you need to keep them playing the game. A strong story can definitely help immerse the player in the world you've created. Gameplay alone can't do everything--unless you manage to tell story through gameplay, which is something most developers have a hard time doing.
There's actualy conflicting information as to wether characters are dead or unconscioucs when their hp reaches zero. For example when a move that inflicts death on a charactor is used to "kill" a party member in Bravely Default the "KO" status is displayed. Even with the argument that the character is unconscious there are many scripted scenarios in Final Fantasy Dimensions where characters with zero HP continue to fight. But ultimately if "plot sensitive death" and "gameplay sensitive death" were segregated games that used death as a plot element would either be laughably easy, pr due to the nesecarry implementation of permadeath be excessivly difficult. While a game having extreme difficulty or a lack there of is not inherently bad not all games should need to choose between these two extremes.
Roger Barber IN Final Fantasy Tatics, when a character "has 0 hp, it becomes unconcous/bleeding till death and you have 3 turn to use phoenix down on him/;her before the character dies for sure.
In Fire Emblem, when a character dies, that character dies forever. Extra rule being the main characters must not die at all costs or it's game over regardless of the units you have.
Kyle Hart When gameplay and story don't match. For instance in GTAIV when you kill hundreds in the game and then have cutscene where the main character feels bad about a murder
Phyrior Yeah, but the player doesn't buy that explanation for one second. The gameplay makes it look and feel like we're doing massive amounts of killing; therein lies the dissonance.
That's my problem with Uncharted 2. The cutscenes show a laid-back funny guy that's in for some exploration and treasure hunting, the gameplay presents a soldier that kills anyone that crosses his way without even thinking about and never showing any sign of remorse. That really threw me off of what could be a fantastic game. I still haven't played Uncharted 4 and I'm pretty sure they fixed that, considering what they did with The Last of Us, but I still can't get over that.
Jardeson Barbosa No, they didn't. Uncharted is a prime example of a game made to showcase an engine and where everything else is just a second thought.
I never played Uncharted 2, but I can relate to your experience with it. I had the same experience with the 2013 Tomb Raider reboot. The cuscenes and dialogues told the story of a young nerdy archeology major and her pals trying to survive on a mysterious island inhabited by a crazy murderous cult. The gameplay told the story of Lara "Rambo with a ponytail" Croft casualy mowing down about two battalions worth of bearded wackjobs and samurai-zombies like she spent her live since reaching adulthood with the royal marine commandos, not sitting around in a university learning old greek. I guess we just have to wait for developers and publishers to finaly wrap their heads around the idea that the gameplay mechanic is part of the narative for getting good narative in AAA games. Allthough I got the sinking feeling our sun will die of old age before THAT will happen...
Given that the entire *point* of that scene was the fake-laughing was *supposed* to sound terrible, yes. They both laugh normally not two minutes after that bit and it's *fine*.
Ferret Prince I have to agree. like, hell yes it was cringy but that's the point of the entire scene. he laughed like that 50% on purpose and 50% out of sarcasm. to me, it always did exactly what it was supposed to.
Ah, I gotta say that the Dawn of War games are really great. They do a fantastic job of giving all the units a unique feel. One of my favorite quotes from DOW2... "SHOW ME WHAT PASSES FOR FURY AMONG YOUR MISBEGOTTEN KIND!" that just screams Space Marine to me...
I actually use this as study material. I'm a 38yr old Electrical Engineer who's been wishing to get into USC school for media arts. One day I want to write three of these movies I've been toying with. The video game creation process is parallel to it. You guys are geniouses and should be teaching school on gaming if not already!!!!
I really wanted that next blood rayne game just because the final scene was so cool the concept of being in a bunker with machine guns shooting down hordes of vampire creatures is amazing.
When you mentioned W40K Dawn of War for conveying narrative, I could only think of one thing... "Rhinos? RHINOS?! Our enemies hide in METALH BAWKSES the cowards! The fools! Ah... we shall take away their METALH BAWKSES!!!" But then again, the Soulstorm expansion is only really known for its narm charm. It's definitely not of the same caliber as the original game and its previous expansions or the sequel and its expansions. (Though even then Dawn of War isn't the best example of narrative in Warhammer 40,000 when you compare it to the tabletop wargame)
It's this reason I appreciate FF5. Considering a certain scene. A very sad scene. I'm glad they used the game mechanics to ensure you know this character just isn't coming back and you already can see why considering the prior battle.
I've got a project planned for this summer for making a game, because you know, school is over and stuff. My plan was to write a sort of book before coding the game but this helped me realize that there is so much more than just a good story, the game also has to tell it too using your so called "mechanics". Good video :P
Brilliant. More people should watch this. And understand it! It is true that video game storytelling is still very new, but a lot of the same mistakes are still being made in TV and film writing, because writing is still somehow a wildly underrated skill. Too few people understand that it is the backbone of every fictional experience, without which everything else around it - artwork, music, mechanics - simply collapses.
Huh... this is actually really weird because a ton of the games I have said in the past have bad stories, actually have a really amazing narrative. and because of this immersion of the areas and the lore of the land... they continue to be my favorite games. because it's still such a blast to be in that world. Take for example a level in the first few spyro games (2 or 3 are easier) and the stories are simple. Spyro the Dragon: Treasure's taken, everyone else is crystalized. get all the things in all the worlds Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage/ Gateway to Glimmer: Spyro tries to go on vacation, has to collect orbs to get home. Spyro: Year of the Dragon: All of the dragon eggs are stolen, find them all. Simplistic stories that can be summed up in a single bound but if you try explaining in detail about what you do in every world, it becomes a sloppy mess. But if you "read" each world as it's own story or chapter, it becomes a huge expansive and lore rich environment that just delivers in much more than the scarce dialog can provide. Part of the reason was because of memory issues and partly because it was a way to show parts of the strange universe that the game takes place in.
The pinnacle of writing in games was when a guy in a green bomber jacket said: "The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to save him?" Exposition, arc, and tone in two sentences.
This entire Video unfortunately doesn't explain why Kingdom hearts 3 has one of the worst writing possible, even with all the time and money in the world.
3:23 I am SO sick of the laughing scene in Final Fantasy X being used as an example of bad voice acting in video games!!! No one seems to realize that this clip is almost always talked about OUT OF CONTEXT!
Man, am I the only one who read all the long text in games, like I have read nigh every book in Skyrim, all the codex entries in Mass Effect and Dragon Age. The text blocks are great for when you need a break.
I think that Dragon Age actually did have a good story, dialogue was good because it gave you a actually choice and codex entries we're optional , they were very good Lore.
I've been watching a lot of your videos over time, and I was scrolling through the videos to find history videos for my teacher. I got down to the bottom and wanted to see the difference between this video and your current videos. The improvement as a channel is amazing, I really think you should show some of your beginning and current changes in a video. Perhaps you could ask for suggestions on what people would like to see improved with the channel. Either way, nice job, you guys really fixed it up! :)
Well, starting my second run of your video playlist. Gonna be another long week. Need things to keep my working and stuff to think about. You guys should put out the audio files for these so I can listen at work.
Haha thank you for referencing M:TG in your mention of flavor, that made my day! I know this is an old video, so it came out before the game I'm going to mention, but I'd like to hear your thoughts about story development regarding the game "Spec Ops: The Line". I won't let you know what I think about the game because I'd like to hear your unadulterated opinion, however negative it may be, but there's a few games that i've been playing more recently that have had the most terrible storyline I've ever heard, so bad that I'd skip the cutscenes and kill the speakers just to avoid terrible storytelling, and there's some great storytelling aspects in some new games that I really appreciate. Again, it's an old video so I know it doesn't apply to newer games but there have been some newer games with terrible storytelling so I'd also like to hear about what you've enjoyed in the past two years.
Danganronpa has a very good story, but its gameplay its kinda cringey for what it tres to do. It tries too hard not to be an ace attorney clone, but doesn't really have a suitable replacement.
I'm pretty sure the game theorists did a video on that before, that Aerith didn't actually die by Sephiroth's sword merely in a death-like comatose state and that its most likely Cloud, thinking her dead, putting her to rest in the lake might have actually caused her to drown.
Feather Fall thats why i dont like game theorist, he makes wild claims like that all the time. the phoenix down is simlpy a gameplay mechanic seperate from canon story as it always has. phoenix downs probably dont exist in canon and if they do they dont have quite the effect they do in gameplay
Game Theory's videos are fun. game play and story segregation aside, its provides a fun excuse for why an item which brings people back from the brink couldn't save her.
Feather Fall i personally disagree with that, game theorists videos sometimes have that existential horror aspect to it, like the cloud drowning aeris thing. thats not fun to me, thats horrible to think about.
Can we please have episodes avaible via itunes? I watch most of your episodes on my phone the first time, and love showing them to co-workers at breaks and lunch - it's a great way to break the monotony at work. the ability to download and have all of them available at a moment's notice would be invaluable when discussing games with my friends at work - and discuss some of the important topics you have covered in the past.
Psychonauts does it really well with voiceovers and quick sequences in the mental realms you're exploring. It's a great way to advance the story AND develop the characters with active gameplay instead of drawn-out cutscenes.
mecanics, caracters, artstile itens scenes texts voices sounds music level design everthing can be used on the narrative. so in a sense game should have a bigger and more profound narrative
@@joseluispcr no, not really. A different writing able to approach consumers in a different way maybe but movies also have almost all of this elements and they don't have the handicap of having to make the aesthetics fun (because a boring game with a great story is still worthless). And books don't have to worry about things like technical limitations so their only limit is their imagination. Don't take me wrong, games are amazing, that's why I work making them, but the fact that games can tell profound stories doesn't mean that it's easier for them than for other media.
@@FernandoSegovia701 movies have thecnical limitations when they do special effects. the graphics of movies is better, but we have more ways to make a narrative. I did not say its easy to do a game as is to do a movie, of course
@@joseluispcr yes, but movies do have some of the same resources as games, like the distribution of objects in the space, the shots, and some other things
As a writer, this really hits home. My game designer pretty much told this to me straight, "Writing is secondary when it comes to video games". I really do want the game I'm making to be both fun and engaging from an interactive/story driven perspective. Unfortunately, i have to come to terms that writing isn't as important as actual gameplay.
It sucks because series like legend of heroes series by falcom have good writing, but gameplay are secondary. Which causes mediocre dungeon designs and difficulty.
for whom ever is just starting from here,..if you are willing to learn, you'l find yourself soon addicted to EC. i took a lot from them, even if i never will make it in the industry. thank you guys so much!
Half-Life 2 is a good example of perfect storytelling that gives you everything in the narrative through the gameplay, it features no cutscenes at all.
SuperLeetroy But they don't ruin the immersion like a cutscene does. It's far from perfect immersion, but it certainlyfeels more natural than cutscenes.
I played it and the scripted sections and the dialouge are just soo damn interesting, why you ask? because in HL2 i don't know what is going on and what should i do, and reading the subtitles make me understand the game's story and i quite enjoyed it.
I've just recently subscribed to the channel and wanted to go back and watch from the beginning. I enjoy hearing games discussed in a different perspective, than being purely from the gamer standpoint. I would love to become a game designer myself - as I'm sure many gamers would. Anyway, enough about my rambling, great video. For a great game, every piece has to build from the narrative, the story that the game wants to tell us and make us a part of. Well said. :)
Phoenix Downs DO NOT CURE DEATH! They cure KO! >.> Also if people didn't like reading huge chunks of text in Video games then J-RPGs would have died in the NES era o.O
I enjoyed this video. Thanks for making it. Yes, there are some games like "Cave Story" which have a really amazing plot and evolving story but the art style and control limitations actually enhance the story. Having a 2D side scrolling game tell a story compared to a 3D Halo-esque game does not make it good or bad, it just tells the story with a different view. MC in Halo can take a moment to look up and see the rest of the Halo ring extending up above and connecting from afar. Meanwhile in Cave Story you are pondering your choices in life as you wonder what is your past despite the game not telling you and only giving half sentences like "Oh, you are...".
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
"Nobody wants to read a huge block of text in a game."
*Immediately pauses to read*
Same
+Vhailor Mithras I admit... I read it and immediately recognized it.
I am shamed.
Metroid Prime? Kirby?
Same.
lol this is not a game
11 years later and I still vividly remember all of these videos. I remember in school, spending literal weeks straight watching the playlist of Extra Credits without pausing except to go to the bathroom. The amount of advice and information within these videos enticed my child mind completely and I attribute a lot of my views and practices for game development to Extra Credits. An honest thank you to everyone who worked on these videos to give me invaluable insight for over half a decade. I may have long moved on from this channel's content, but I certainly have not forgotten how great it used to be
Damn, so this is why theres so many bad games nowadays
@@cowpolk5763 Damn right it's true.
@@cowpolk5763 The bad writing is mostly coming from Canadians though.
We never did get that voice acting episode......
+Joseph Ocasio 4 years later =[
+Joseph Ocasio I'm guessing they're still having trouble finding voice actors to talk to about it?
+Timothy McLean I guess. I really hope they didn't just forget about it.
***** I'm getting tempted to email James about it.
Still waiting...
"10 minutes of dialogue in one hour of gameplay" Kojima: hold my movie endings
Kojima sucks
@@V_For_Vigilante well, that's like, uh, your opinion, man
Metal gear solid 4 literally having 21 minutes of a single cutscene
And 4+ hours of a whole sequence
@@V_For_Vigilante just like your mum
@@V_For_Vigilante As he is one of the most well know video game directors of all time, who's games are highly successful. I wish I could suck even 25% as much as him.
Been watching this channel for over 8 years. Can’t explain the nostalgia I feel watching this video. Thank you for the years of content you’ve provided.
It's really strange to me that story is a secondary consideration in this industry. My game ideas usually start with some mechanics, but as soon as I start working on characters - usually the second thing I do - I start working out the story too. That way, I'm working on all parts at once, developing them together as one game, not as parts of a whole. I find it really hard to imagine trying to retroactively add a story to a game that's almost finished. That's like making a suit, then trying to find someone who fits in it, instead of making a suit to fit yourself.
Note that I'm not saying one person has to do everything - that's just how I roll. But if I was building a design team, first I would build the whole team first, not hire a writer half-way through. I would also put my team in one room if possible, and at least ensure that the team is constantly communicating. I've often found that working on the story will give me ideas for new gameplay elements and vice-versa, which makes the whole game more cohesive.
Another thing I try to consider when writing is the role of items, upgrades, etc., in the story. It's always nice to get a new upgrade, but if it's just sitting there, with no context, that's all it is - nice to have. But in games like RPGs, you have to quest for your items. Your sword has a name and a back-story. Maybe it has a personality of its own. If the player has to earn that item - if that item means something in that world - then the item will mean more to the player as well.
Nionivek
The type of game certainly makes a difference. Frankly, some fighting games would be better without a convoluted story. (So, Chun Li works for InterPol and Bison has a criminal empire, but who needs guns, right? Let's just punch each other a lot!)
Then, of course, there are the 1000+ "save the princess" games like Mario and Zelda, where the premise is the whole plot.
That said though, a good story only makes a game better. Binding of Isaac could have been a simple "save your own ass" Zelda rip-off, and it would have still been fun, but the story defined the aesthetic of the game, which is one of its strongest elements.
Nionivek
Okay. Not the best example admittedly, but it's still way more of a story than Mario.
Well, given that the first games were made mechanics-first-who in their right minds would tell a story of a sprinting hedgehog or a druggy plumber... though female space marine's a good start-and those people are still active in the industry, it could just be a generational thing.
Is... is this their first video? Have I finally explored every single aspect of this channel? Oh dear god...
I don't think so, but maybe!
There's some earlier videos on Daniel Floyd's personal channel.
Yep. This is their very first!
I am not a fan of Final Fantasy X, but the "bad acting" in that particular cut-scene was INTENTIONAL. They were FAKE LAUGHING in the cut-scene and it was SUPPOSED to be terrible. If you watch the remainder of the scene, you see they begin to laugh at their silliness and the voice acting goes back to "bearable".
Yeesh.
THANK YOU
This is my biggest pet peeve as I see people bringing this up as an example of 'bad voice-acting' all the time. Was there bad voice acting in that game? Sure. But that scene has been taken out of context. It's sad.
Garrett Compton
Indeed!
Frankly, I never considered the voice acting in Final Fantasy X to be bad whatsoever, but sometimes one must accept a particular premise, even an erroneous one, for the sake of relating to his audience; therefore, I have agreed that the voice acting was "bearable".
I wonder if the persons disseminating the false belief that this scene is an example of bad voice acting have ever actually played the game, or if they are only parroting what many have told them.
Garrett Compton they should just use sonic for terrible voice acting, just awful
ReaperP13 See, but the people writing these scripts cannot FIND THE COMPUTER ROOM.
64UPAllGOD
You lost me. I admit that, although I love video games (although I'm always sorta searching for that game that does that thing that I have always wanted, which I will not explain presently) I am not really into gaming "culture". It strikes me as pedantic, and frivolous; therefore, I have no idea if you are making a reference to, like, Portal, or if you are just being clever and going over my head.
I am so glad the channel hasn't deleted these videos! These are just amazing videos that we can only wish were still made today.
Holy Crap- is this the first episode of ExtraCredits?
Bob Bluered yeah! right? It was reeeeeeeeally hard to watch, i had to force myself to pay attention the whole video
Bob Bluered didnt extra credits start before game theory
Bob Bluered Dan did a series much like this on his personal channel for a while before Extra Credits became a thing, so yes and no.
+Neko the Geek Actually EC inspired game theory
Before Penny Arcade and UA-cam, they were on the Escapist. So this episode was made before their channel by a couple years.
"Plot contradicts gameplay..."
Almost every JRPG. So your character can summon demons and angels, reshape entire landscapes and slice a million objects into a billion pieces... But we can't get out of a fucking jail cell?
NOPE.
I don't think xenoblade really has this issue though. I know you said "almost", but just wanted to point out an exception.
"In most jrbg story and gameplay are separated buy a fence, made out of tigers."
-zero punctuation
power levels in JRPGs aren't to be taken seriously but only for eyecandy and amusement.
not being able to escape from a prison cell teaches players that not all problems can be solved by raw physical power.
it's all about the philosophy.
Mysticsloth Not being able to escape from a cell teaches players a lesson? Give them so much credit, why don't you. It is for story reasons and no more. The disconnect between story and combat is there, and not excused because they "aren't meant to be taken seriously"
Joe Cleary Well, not in my books. But to each their own... opinion or whatever. Even though I can't see any credit in yours.
Can we address the unnoticed complexity of the laughing scene in FFX?
There's actually a reason it's stilted. One other person has mentioned it here, but it happens at a point in the story where the group of adventurers has witnessed the entire destruction of a city and hasn't yet come to terms with it. The entire conversation is indicative of a sub-plot you don't find til later. Yuna asks Tidus to smile on their journey, because forcing that emotion is the only way to move on. She wants to bring happiness to Spira. It isn't til you find that Yuna will sacrifice herself to bring that happiness that Tidus is so upset. That entire moment must have been absurd to everyone else. Tidus was the only one that didn't know what was going to happen.
God it drives me crazy when this moment is brought up as a moment of bad voice-acting when its intent was to be hollow.
This is definitely one of the better moments of voice acting.
The very best environmental storytelling I have ever seen was in Dark Souls.
In Anor Londo, the city of giant god-like beings, there is a cathedral castle thing. Before the entrance lies a staircase. Running in the middle of the staircase is a set of steps for beings about twice the size of humans, while squashed to the sides of the staircase are human-sized stairs.
Think about that and all its implications. The devs could have just put Black Iron Tarkus there and made him say "the giants oppressed the humans" but instead they killed Tarkus ( the bastards) and made you examine stairs.
We're going to start distributing our back catalog of episodes in more places over the next few months. Penny Arcade TV will still have exclusivity on the newest episodes, but you'll start seeing the classic ones on UA-cam, Blip and numerous others. Enjoy!
Man eleven years and no replies? Bit weird
@@mrhernandezhistorynerd fr
@@mrhernandezhistorynerdikr, an absolute gem of this channels history
2:20 "the ever popular good or evil bar" is a one-dimensional moral choice meter with positive and negative values, not two-dimensional. I imagine someone else said this already but I'm late to the party.
Ah yes, Aleksi Grön said it a month ago. Well said, sir!
The guys who developed The Order 1886 ignored that last part of the video.
Yeah, all they did was add in a few spoilt mechanics which you can only use occasionally(dodge, sprint, thermite guns), make all of the assets that you ultimately went to and ONLY then did they write a script which was as stale as mouldy bread.
+PokeMaster22222 Or they just simply tought they could bring a book to a videogame in their own way.... Witch sucked
***** 5 am, cant English, talk later
***** Okay.1886 creators thought they could make a game with very little gameplay and compensate with quick time events to know that the player is awake and still paying attention. because by the end it became nothing but a movie with chapters that were a cut-scene themselves and the gameplay and mechanics were basically vanishing as the mechanics didn't got a chance to shine completely for the little gameplay they got.
+PokeMaster22222 He wasn't being literal about it. He was saying the people who made The Order 1886 ignored the idea behind what Dan was saying, not ignoring the actual video.
This video is also known as 'Why Indie Games Have Better Storylines Compared to Most AAA Titles'
The Dream of Life I was just gonna comment that.
Very true
Like Pokemon franchise compare to inexpensive make game produce story.
Yup, definitely seeing them not suffering from many of the problems since indie development is more often than not neither time constrained nor writer excluded early on.
@@arocomisgamusclademork1603 Pokemon Mystery Dungeon is the exception to this, I think. As well as Conquest, and a few other ones. They can have quite good stories.
Hidetaka miyazaki once said:"the narrative of your game should not be held captive by it's cutscenes","the greatest tool of narrative is the world you create for it to exist in"
also he said:"a well designed world could tell it's story in silence".
I came back here after hearing that Dan was stepping down and I can't believe it's been so long. Hearing Dan's voice every week had become such a reliable part of my schedule that I didn't even notice how much it's changed over the years. Not only did the voice get better, but the pace of the narration and how engaging the show was improved so much. I'm looking forward to our new narrator and wish you guys all the best in your new endeavours. I can't wait for the Extra Frames series to come back!
Irks me that the infamous FFX scene is always the example for bad voice acting. They were forcing themselves to laugh ...
+SkitHertz This literally the entire point. It's literally explained by Yuna. She forces her self to laugh and smile in order to get through all the pain. So what Tidus and Yuna end up doing is forcing the laughter to present real laughter because of how ridiculous it sounds to force yourself to be happy. Instead, take comfort with people around you, and know that your friends are with you.
THANK YOU. Its not supposed to sound real...
+SkitHertz Not only that, but in universe, the rest of the party is like, "What the hell is wrong with you guys?"
And, in a game that has probably 10 hours of cut scenes and voice acting, they point to that one 15 second clip taken out of context. If you watch the entire scene throughout, after they fake laugh, they actually laugh right after it.
There are additional scenes in the game where the delivery is off. I love James Arnold Taylor, but when he yells at the rest of the party in Home, his delivery is pretty bad. A bit too melodramatic.
Tara Strong's Rikku I feel is the only main character in that game that consistently was performed excellently. A balance of a lot of personality traits into a nuanced performance.
And while FFX isn't as bad as its reputation would claim, a lot of experienced performers sound off or miscast due to off direction and mediocre localization.
That is one thing that irks me. Most of the time the voice actors themselves aren't inept, it is a result of mediocre voice acting due to mediocre voice direction from the development staff, or trying to cut corners and not get good voice actors.
I actually thought everyone in FFX did a great job. There were some moments of poor delivery, but the cast didn't receive the best tools to work with, mainly because this was Square's first major foray into voice acting, and they didn't quite anticipate how much work would go into it.
Put simply, they didn't provide the American voice cast with the best tools, (like finalized pieces of the game) so the American cast had to imagine what the setting and scenario was most of the time.
A very good example where Narrative actually works and is done by a novelist is the first Max Payne game.
Yes, it's full of pseudo-philosophy, one liners and "mature" content, but it really fits the action-shooter gameplay and the overall story.
And the bits describing "Noir York City" are brillant, as they are scattered through ctuscenes, gameplay, artwork, television news, banter of NPCs, TV shows etc.
I wholeheartedly concur.
They introduced themselves and Alison was new? Good lord this video is old.
Still good though.
ThePCguy17 I remember alison
Yeah, me too. Brings back memories.
ThePCguy17 what episode did alison leave I can't find it
***** It's been a few years, I forget. I think she went off to college or graduate school or something. It was only briefly mentioned in passing though, and the art style didn't noticeably change, so it'd be hard to find.
ThePCguy17 It was Extra Credits: Intrinsic vs Extrinsic posted on March 28th, 2013 Season 6 Episode 6. Dang it's been a long time, it was due to her job and she couldn't balance it so she left, we've been waiting for almost 4 years but she hasn't come back yet. I don't blame her though I just miss having her on the team
James Taylor is a fantastic va and that scene in ffx as anybody who has actually played the game would know is done purposefully and fits the context of how characters are feeling. Tidus is literally forcing himself to laugh to show Yuna.
I feel like Kid Icarus Uprising and The Last of Us nailed this. The stories alone were fantastic, but the narrative and dialogue made the characters, environments, and mechanics pure gaming gold
Ellie is the only thing I personally like about Last Of Us. But hey, to each their own.
TLoU had a very competent script-writer. Where it fell apart was the actual story and the world building.
To be fair, TLoU had a case of ludonarrative dissonance.
The comedy in Kid Icarus Uprising, oh my god I love this game!
Swadloom Yeah, I loved that game!
Put the video on x0,5 speed.
+Nathan Pringle now i can' t unheard it
how did that lag me..?
+Nathan Pringle You simultaneously ruined the video and made it the best thing I've heard in a while
+Nathan Pringle Lel
+Nathan Pringle Omg i dare you to set it on 0.25x. lol, you'd almost think he had an anourism or something like that. XD
2:51 that's exactly the plot of "haiyore! nyaruko-san" o.o
SPEAKING OF BAD WRITING here we are 7 years later
I love how nobody talks about how MatPat was inspired to create Game Theory because of this channel.
"You can't write a movie script the same way you would write a novel..." As someone who writes both stories and scripts for fun, I wish more people would understand this. "Just use the book for the script!!!!1!!" Please, please stop saying this.
"We could make an entire video on voice acting, and we probably will." (3:25)
... Soooooo... Where is it?
Probably does not mean 100% yes
Patrick Frost "Probably Will"
I'm surprised. THIS is Extra Credits Episode 1? Wow, it's just as good as the other ones! It's the first time i saw a show or channel being literally failproof even at the very beginning! Seriously, you guys are something i should have checked earlier.
"Video games are a fundamentally different medium from all other mass media to date. You can't just write for it using old techniques"
Said no Kojima ever.
Weird. I always thought that It was a rule in Final Fantasy that dying in combat just meant your characters were unconscious as a way to skirt around the disconnect between story and gameplay.
It is, goes to show how much research they put into this >.>
Desufire Yea, I've gone on length about how erroneous their critiques of New Vegas are, and how delusional their belief in F3's strengths is.
The FFX thing only spread as an example of "bad voice acting" because it got shared by those who saw it out of context. Nobody who played the game could have missed that it's intentionally forced; even ignoring the characters' setting and relationship, the fact that they laugh _perfectly naturally_ in the very next line is proof enough.
hahaha... ya you are right. FFX was like the very first game that tried voice acting back then.. so they hired some crappy voice actors who don't appreciate video games. i'm sure the Japanese voice actors were a lot better though since they take anime/game industry very seriously
Matt The English dub was pretty good all around, and totally faithful to the original Japanese in that forced-laughing scene (which sounds just as awkward in both languages--again, that was the point). /watch?v=mAgVjH9V9Ps
That's the reason I don't bash those scenes with another being Tidus being played by FRIGGIN' JAMES ARNOLD TAYLOR!!!
Ace Attorney games could never work without great writing!
I love Ace Atorney!
Ace Attorney is 100% narrative, the mechanics itself is like an integration into the narrative. :)
Its impossible 100% because that would be a book,but 90 at least
Yeah, Ace Attorney is something called a visual novel, which is not exactly the same thing as a video game.
@@KnakuanaRka No, a visual novel is just a particular, though admittedly less conventional genre of videogame, like a walking simulator.
And here I was thinking I could go to college as a creative writing major and try and weasel myself into a game's development to help them fix up these terrible endings we've been getting.
"You can't write a fluffy game on the context of a gothic horror theme"
Stubbs, the zombie? >XD
zombies aren't gothic horror, they're modern horror.
Check out First Person Lover. It's not really a horror game, but it mixes a fluffy game with a war game. It worked perfectly, too.
I love all the pieces of paper that just say 'no' in this video, really speaks to the soul
What I wish they would do after every episode is give a short list of games that do [insert video topic] exceptionally well. I know they have a few games scattered throughout but I'd really love to see a "Top 3" list or something.
Love your stuff guys. I've been on a recent Extra Credits binge, and I'm no where close to a Game Designer.
Half life 2 was great in this aspect if you ask me
+Spencer Smith I think Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines did a very good job in this regard as well.
+Dokwart Yeah, Bloodlines is easily one of the best games in this regard. Brian Mitsoda, the game's (main?) writer just did a perfect job there. I think RPS did an interview with him where he said some really insightful things about the writing process for the game.
What an effed-up process to bring in the writers near the very end of the game-creating process. Many people play games for the story. Few people play games only for gameplay, and those that do are usually playing sports or combat/fighting games.
+Lunavarion I LOOOVE games with good stories. :)
princessthyemis So do I! I love amazing stories despite the medium. From what I'm learning, though, game developers focus on levels and gameplay first and then tack on writing near the very end to give the game some sort of weak context, which is why most game stories are so bad. That makes absolutely no sense, though. Why wouldn't you include the story into the earliest phases of a game? If done well, it could result in a truly amazing experience that could seriously raise the game's reputation as well as make them truly memorable above the abundance of mediocre games.
Marc Gonzàlez Pereira True, but once you have the audience, you need to keep them playing the game. A strong story can definitely help immerse the player in the world you've created. Gameplay alone can't do everything--unless you manage to tell story through gameplay, which is something most developers have a hard time doing.
I think the suikoden games have amazing stories.
+Lunavarion Disagree , but a lot of people do focus on the story a lot too.
Phoenix down heals unconsciousness. It doesn't revive the dead...
*****
Maybe because zombies possess no conciousness and by restoring it it causes a paradox destroying the zombie.
There's actualy conflicting information as to wether characters are dead or unconscioucs when their hp reaches zero. For example when a move that inflicts death on a charactor is used to "kill" a party member in Bravely Default the "KO" status is displayed. Even with the argument that the character is unconscious there are many scripted scenarios in Final Fantasy Dimensions where characters with zero HP continue to fight. But ultimately if "plot sensitive death" and "gameplay sensitive death" were segregated games that used death as a plot element would either be laughably easy, pr due to the nesecarry implementation of permadeath be excessivly difficult. While a game having extreme difficulty or a lack there of is not inherently bad not all games should need to choose between these two extremes.
Roger Barber
IN Final Fantasy Tatics, when a character "has 0 hp, it becomes unconcous/bleeding till death and you have 3 turn to use phoenix down on him/;her before the character dies for sure.
In Fire Emblem, when a character dies, that character dies forever. Extra rule being the main characters must not die at all costs or it's game over regardless of the units you have.
Roger Barber I think any game where you can cure "death" by spending a night at an inn isn't actual death at all.
This was Game Theorists Inspiration And i did not know that. Thank you for making this videos
I wish someday you talk about Ludonarrative Dissonance, and how to detect it while we play games and trying to stay on its narrative.
Care to explain what that is?
Kyle Hart When gameplay and story don't match.
For instance in GTAIV when you kill hundreds in the game and then have cutscene where the main character feels bad about a murder
¿Dayo? :P
BenRangel
The given explaination is that Niko doesn't kill so much as disable.
Phyrior Yeah, but the player doesn't buy that explanation for one second. The gameplay makes it look and feel like we're doing massive amounts of killing; therein lies the dissonance.
That's my problem with Uncharted 2. The cutscenes show a laid-back funny guy that's in for some exploration and treasure hunting, the gameplay presents a soldier that kills anyone that crosses his way without even thinking about and never showing any sign of remorse. That really threw me off of what could be a fantastic game. I still haven't played Uncharted 4 and I'm pretty sure they fixed that, considering what they did with The Last of Us, but I still can't get over that.
Jardeson Barbosa No, they didn't. Uncharted is a prime example of a game made to showcase an engine and where everything else is just a second thought.
I never played Uncharted 2, but I can relate to your experience with it.
I had the same experience with the 2013 Tomb Raider reboot.
The cuscenes and dialogues told the story of a young nerdy archeology major and her pals trying to survive on a mysterious island inhabited by a crazy murderous cult.
The gameplay told the story of Lara "Rambo with a ponytail" Croft casualy mowing down about two battalions worth of bearded wackjobs and samurai-zombies like she spent her live since reaching adulthood with the royal marine commandos, not sitting around in a university learning old greek.
I guess we just have to wait for developers and publishers to finaly wrap their heads around the idea that the gameplay mechanic is part of the narative for getting good narative in AAA games.
Allthough I got the sinking feeling our sun will die of old age before THAT will happen...
Uncharted stories are lame , cheap Indiana Jones rip offs. Last of us is also garbage
Show, don't tell.
Hello fellow Dtoider and Extra Credits viewer!
Hey there! Fancy meeting you here!
+Michformer play, don't show.
+Michformer Play with oneself....don't make war...oh wait wrong Video. My bad
*laughs in Dark Souls*
come on the laughing in FF10 wasn't that bad. okay it was still pretty cringy but you know the point the scene was trying to make.
Given that the entire *point* of that scene was the fake-laughing was *supposed* to sound terrible, yes. They both laugh normally not two minutes after that bit and it's *fine*.
Char Aznable
......that's fair.
Ferret Prince I have to agree. like, hell yes it was cringy but that's the point of the entire scene. he laughed like that 50% on purpose and 50% out of sarcasm. to me, it always did exactly what it was supposed to.
People who think the voice actors were terrible in that scene clearly didn't play the game or at least watched the whole cutscene :/
ikr? It was all a misunderstanding or people are just that dumb. It was supposed to be fake and forced.
Where it all started. Good luck on your next great adventure, Dan.
Still waiting for a voice acting video... maybe some day.
Ah, I gotta say that the Dawn of War games are really great. They do a fantastic job of giving all the units a unique feel.
One of my favorite quotes from DOW2...
"SHOW ME WHAT PASSES FOR FURY AMONG YOUR MISBEGOTTEN KIND!"
that just screams Space Marine to me...
The Emperor protects my friend. I miss Dawn of War.
I actually use this as study material. I'm a 38yr old Electrical Engineer who's been wishing to get into USC school for media arts. One day I want to write three of these movies I've been toying with. The video game creation process is parallel to it.
You guys are geniouses and should be teaching school on gaming if not already!!!!
Imma be honest, I kinda miss when this series was the entire channel
I really wanted that next blood rayne game just because the final scene was so cool the concept of being in a bunker with machine guns shooting down hordes of vampire creatures is amazing.
When you mentioned W40K Dawn of War for conveying narrative, I could only think of one thing...
"Rhinos? RHINOS?! Our enemies hide in METALH BAWKSES the cowards! The fools! Ah... we shall take away their METALH BAWKSES!!!"
But then again, the Soulstorm expansion is only really known for its narm charm. It's definitely not of the same caliber as the original game and its previous expansions or the sequel and its expansions. (Though even then Dawn of War isn't the best example of narrative in Warhammer 40,000 when you compare it to the tabletop wargame)
I find these old episodes much more charming than the more recent ones...I don’t really know why...
4 years since this has been posted... Still waiting for that voice acting episode...
Why does it say original air date? Also, why did UA-cam have to remove sort by oldest
It's this reason I appreciate FF5. Considering a certain scene. A very sad scene. I'm glad they used the game mechanics to ensure you know this character just isn't coming back and you already can see why considering the prior battle.
I've got a project planned for this summer for making a game, because you know, school is over and stuff. My plan was to write a sort of book before coding the game but this helped me realize that there is so much more than just a good story, the game also has to tell it too using your so called "mechanics". Good video :P
Thanks for the idea for Cthulu Dating Simulator.
Yes and some asshole stole the idea
Brilliant. More people should watch this. And understand it!
It is true that video game storytelling is still very new, but a lot of the same mistakes are still being made in TV and film writing, because writing is still somehow a wildly underrated skill. Too few people understand that it is the backbone of every fictional experience, without which everything else around it - artwork, music, mechanics - simply collapses.
Huh... this is actually really weird because a ton of the games I have said in the past have bad stories, actually have a really amazing narrative. and because of this immersion of the areas and the lore of the land... they continue to be my favorite games. because it's still such a blast to be in that world.
Take for example a level in the first few spyro games (2 or 3 are easier) and the stories are simple.
Spyro the Dragon: Treasure's taken, everyone else is crystalized. get all the things in all the worlds
Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage/ Gateway to Glimmer: Spyro tries to go on vacation, has to collect orbs to get home.
Spyro: Year of the Dragon: All of the dragon eggs are stolen, find them all.
Simplistic stories that can be summed up in a single bound but if you try explaining in detail about what you do in every world, it becomes a sloppy mess. But if you "read" each world as it's own story or chapter, it becomes a huge expansive and lore rich environment that just delivers in much more than the scarce dialog can provide. Part of the reason was because of memory issues and partly because it was a way to show parts of the strange universe that the game takes place in.
I decided to go back to the first extra credits video since the original three are now gone :(
when he still had arms
I loved Alison Theus' art waaay back in like 2002 so finding out she is the artist here is crazy
Watching the 1st episode as Dan left in 2018...the nostalgia.
The pinnacle of writing in games was when a guy in a green bomber jacket said: "The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to save him?" Exposition, arc, and tone in two sentences.
This entire Video unfortunately doesn't explain why Kingdom hearts 3 has one of the worst writing possible, even with all the time and money in the world.
2:50, this man called out Sucker for Love years before it even existed.
3:23
I am SO sick of the laughing scene in Final Fantasy X being used as an example of bad voice acting in video games!!! No one seems to realize that this clip is almost always talked about OUT OF CONTEXT!
KingMeteorStudios AAAAH HAHAHAHAHA
man, this show has come a LONG way since this
keep up the good work guys!
Man, am I the only one who read all the long text in games, like I have read nigh every book in Skyrim, all the codex entries in Mass Effect and Dragon Age. The text blocks are great for when you need a break.
I think that Dragon Age actually did have a good story, dialogue was good because it gave you a actually choice and codex entries we're optional , they were very good Lore.
I've been watching a lot of your videos over time, and I was scrolling through the videos to find history videos for my teacher. I got down to the bottom and wanted to see the difference between this video and your current videos. The improvement as a channel is amazing, I really think you should show some of your beginning and current changes in a video. Perhaps you could ask for suggestions on what people would like to see improved with the channel. Either way, nice job, you guys really fixed it up! :)
the entire Mother (Earthbound) series is built around narrative.
Too bad we'll never get another Earthbound.
Mother 3 has amazing story.
@@carolynfrancis5375 We already have one. It's called Undertale.
So sad to see so many games still fail to understand this
The pitching on Dan's voice back then is quite jarring when you've become used to how it is now. o_O
Well, starting my second run of your video playlist. Gonna be another long week. Need things to keep my working and stuff to think about. You guys should put out the audio files for these so I can listen at work.
What happened to you guys this is so nostalgic
Now I want to see a light fluffy script written for a game with a gothic horror aesthetic
The inspiration of a legendary UA-camr, beginning to end.
It's great! It's just awesome to know I'm not the only Dane who's watching these videos, they're so awesome. Keep it up :D
I really do miss these episodes.
yooo the start of a legend!!!
And so. A legend began.
I'm so happy I found this channel.
Great work guys, keep it up! x)
THE LAUGH WAS SUPPOSED TO BE BAD. Come on, Extra Credits!
Haha thank you for referencing M:TG in your mention of flavor, that made my day!
I know this is an old video, so it came out before the game I'm going to mention, but I'd like to hear your thoughts about story development regarding the game "Spec Ops: The Line". I won't let you know what I think about the game because I'd like to hear your unadulterated opinion, however negative it may be, but there's a few games that i've been playing more recently that have had the most terrible storyline I've ever heard, so bad that I'd skip the cutscenes and kill the speakers just to avoid terrible storytelling, and there's some great storytelling aspects in some new games that I really appreciate. Again, it's an old video so I know it doesn't apply to newer games but there have been some newer games with terrible storytelling so I'd also like to hear about what you've enjoyed in the past two years.
Ace Attorney and Danganronpa have a good story along with a good gameplay
probably because its more of a dialogue based game then others.
Danganronpa has a very good story, but its gameplay its kinda cringey for what it tres to do. It tries too hard not to be an ace attorney clone, but doesn't really have a suitable replacement.
For me, I really enjoyed the gameplay so much, they balanced that well with the story telling
It's just my opinion
SeireiART
Huh, maybe it is just my opinion, then.
When he said a memo from the marketing department all I could see is tombstone from Spiderman
Phoenix downs cure the K.O. status. FF characters don't die in battle.
I'm pretty sure the game theorists did a video on that before, that Aerith didn't actually die by Sephiroth's sword merely in a death-like comatose state and that its most likely Cloud, thinking her dead, putting her to rest in the lake might have actually caused her to drown.
Feather Fall thats why i dont like game theorist, he makes wild claims like that all the time. the phoenix down is simlpy a gameplay mechanic seperate from canon story as it always has. phoenix downs probably dont exist in canon and if they do they dont have quite the effect they do in gameplay
Game Theory's videos are fun. game play and story segregation aside, its provides a fun excuse for why an item which brings people back from the brink couldn't save her.
Feather Fall i personally disagree with that, game theorists videos sometimes have that existential horror aspect to it, like the cloud drowning aeris thing. thats not fun to me, thats horrible to think about.
Lance Grabow
Do you suggest that we should not form theories at all? Or are you just referring to that one polarizing channel on UA-cam?
Can we please have episodes avaible via itunes? I watch most of your episodes on my phone the first time, and love showing them to co-workers at breaks and lunch - it's a great way to break the monotony at work. the ability to download and have all of them available at a moment's notice would be invaluable when discussing games with my friends at work - and discuss some of the important topics you have covered in the past.
kinda suprised that this channel was what inspired game theory
Psychonauts does it really well with voiceovers and quick sequences in the mental realms you're exploring. It's a great way to advance the story AND develop the characters with active gameplay instead of drawn-out cutscenes.
mecanics,
caracters,
artstile
itens
scenes
texts
voices
sounds
music
level design
everthing can be used on the narrative. so in a sense game should have a bigger and more profound narrative
Bigger than what?
@@FernandoSegovia701 than a movie, book, etc
@@joseluispcr no, not really. A different writing able to approach consumers in a different way maybe but movies also have almost all of this elements and they don't have the handicap of having to make the aesthetics fun (because a boring game with a great story is still worthless). And books don't have to worry about things like technical limitations so their only limit is their imagination. Don't take me wrong, games are amazing, that's why I work making them, but the fact that games can tell profound stories doesn't mean that it's easier for them than for other media.
@@FernandoSegovia701 movies have thecnical limitations when they do special effects. the graphics of movies is better, but we have more ways to make a narrative. I did not say its easy to do a game as is to do a movie, of course
@@joseluispcr yes, but movies do have some of the same resources as games, like the distribution of objects in the space, the shots, and some other things
As a writer, this really hits home. My game designer pretty much told this to me straight, "Writing is secondary when it comes to video games". I really do want the game I'm making to be both fun and engaging from an interactive/story driven perspective. Unfortunately, i have to come to terms that writing isn't as important as actual gameplay.
It sucks because series like legend of heroes series by falcom have good writing, but gameplay are secondary. Which causes mediocre dungeon designs and difficulty.
I miss early Extra Credits.
for whom ever is just starting from here,..if you are willing to learn, you'l find yourself soon addicted to EC. i took a lot from them, even if i never will make it in the industry. thank you guys so much!
Half-Life 2 is a good example of perfect storytelling that gives you everything in the narrative through the gameplay, it features no cutscenes at all.
No, but it does feature scripted sections which you can't skip and you can't move past until they're done playing out.
SuperLeetroy But they don't ruin the immersion like a cutscene does. It's far from perfect immersion, but it certainlyfeels more natural than cutscenes.
Harmonic Revelations
Oh yeah, that's totally right, it was WAY less immersion breaking than some games, but could still be kind of annoying at times.
portal 2 and most other valve games share this
I played it and the scripted sections and the dialouge are just soo damn interesting, why you ask? because in HL2 i don't know what is going on and what should i do, and reading the subtitles make me understand the game's story and i quite enjoyed it.
I've just recently subscribed to the channel and wanted to go back and watch from the beginning. I enjoy hearing games discussed in a different perspective, than being purely from the gamer standpoint. I would love to become a game designer myself - as I'm sure many gamers would. Anyway, enough about my rambling, great video. For a great game, every piece has to build from the narrative, the story that the game wants to tell us and make us a part of. Well said. :)
Phoenix Downs DO NOT CURE DEATH! They cure KO! >.> Also if people didn't like reading huge chunks of text in Video games then J-RPGs would have died in the NES era o.O
I enjoyed this video. Thanks for making it.
Yes, there are some games like "Cave Story" which have a really amazing plot and evolving story but the art style and control limitations actually enhance the story. Having a 2D side scrolling game tell a story compared to a 3D Halo-esque game does not make it good or bad, it just tells the story with a different view. MC in Halo can take a moment to look up and see the rest of the Halo ring extending up above and connecting from afar. Meanwhile in Cave Story you are pondering your choices in life as you wonder what is your past despite the game not telling you and only giving half sentences like "Oh, you are...".