"Explained Jordan Peterson unlike any other piece of media I have ever come across" is a funny way of saying "In a bathtub with a inflatable JP body pillow"
Yeah it was that JP video I'm pretty sure that caught my attention too! But can't always watch her videos.... because you really do need to buckle the fu*k up, as we all know she's going to really get you thinking and what she says and how it said and the imagery it's just a lot and for me I have to really be ready otherwise I'll wind up watching the video & not really take away all of what's being said. I said I'll just do the typical ADD zone out staring at the screen ish. And it's definitely worth it when I'm ready to pay attention I feel like she has helped me to understand at least a little bit her situation as well as others. I love her takes politically & socially!
Natalie: "I'm not so arrogant that I think everyone who watches my videos has to sit down at the TV with a whole thing of popcorn and give me their undevided attention" Meanwhile I put this up on my TV screen and I am sitting with a bowl of chips
literally had a friend over to the house to sit and watch the full twighlight video with blankets and snacks - pausing only to stop and discuss some of the themes or refill the popcorn bowl. we got most of the way through it then finished it the next morning!
i've definitely started a Contrapoints video like at work with audio only, just to be like, what am i *doing*, i need to wait and watch this until i can actually watch it lol!
It's so, so frustrating to have lived my entire life as a man who just desperately wants to actually be wanted. Not needed, wanted. Desired. I have it now, in my 30s, but those years in waiting were hideous. The wretched realization that in almost any relationship the closest I would ever get to feeling desired by another would be a woman acquiescing to my advances, reflecting to whatever degree my interest in her back at me. Or like, going to gay bars and getting hit on by men. It's such a stunning moment, such a revelation, to finally see how intensely we *all* yearn to be the object of someone's desire. It can be such a desperate need that it drives us to extremes, to risky behavior, to choices and places we know are bad for us. Damned patriarchy.
This. So much this. I spent all my 20s looking for a long term relationship, and when I finally met someone single and interested in me, the closest I got was feeling like an interchangeable avatar of male desire for her. I never felt wanted. I just felt that she wanted someone else to want her, regardless of who it actually was. Obviously, it didn't work out. Relatedly, a lifelong friend of mine is trans (mtf), and she shared with me that the first time she ever felt desired in her life was after transitioning and dating a man for the first time. Pre-transition, she had been in a hetero relationship and marriage for 7 years. I feel like so many people go through life without ever understanding the social forces that shape their behavior and identity, and how those forces affect happiness. Moreover, we aren't taught to empathize with people living with a different set of influences. If anything, we compete with each other and become bitter and resentful of the other side's perceived privileges. Educational content like this is so important.
Hopefully more and more individuals being entrepreneurial or joining small creator businesses will revive a generation of people more intouch with themselves and are better aware & informed about how to approach friendships & relationships with empathy.
Thanks to clickbait media ("Ben Shapiro destroys woke college kid with facts & logic," etc) I used to think (several years ago though) that leftists weren't amenable to facts & logic. But then I came across Natalie's videos, & I became a better person. She's so sweet & smart! I'm glad you're giving her a platform. More folks need to be aware of her.
Normally I’m irritated by a host greasing their guests, but Natalie has earned her flowers thrice over- if anything you’re egregiously underselling her.
@@Mystprism this is not a dig on your comment, so I hope you don't take it that way, but the issue with all these "patronage/pay-per-view" platforms where you can get extra content of your favorite creators is that they're all in US and they all charge US dollars. But the content creator's fan base is international. And personally speaking, for someone who's from a country where monthly minimum wage is equal of 500 dollars, paying 1-3 bucks for all of our favorite content creators become kind of impossible. And I'm not at all trying to say Natalie (or anyone else) should make their content free, but I wish there was a way these "paywalls" were adjustable to local economies. Rant over.
I know her pre transisition content isn't available anymore but contrapoints was the sole reason I was able to actually paradigm shift and UNDERSTAND what transition is and isn't
she has the transcripts of those videos on her website last i looked but yeah :'( her content is so visually interesting and dense that just the script doesn't compare to what the video evoked. Still her decision us understandable and she owes us nothing (but someday maybe revisiting those topics by reusing her old scripts and production would be amazing)
@@bisma1352 I feel the same. I hope someday she revisits her older video topics to remake them because the information in them is still worth having. Even if she just used the b-roll images and did a voiceover.
I really appreciate the guts it took for Conover to have a guest like Wynn on. He typically covers technology and political stuff, with less philosophy. He's clearly thrilled to have her on, and it's equally clear (to me at least) that he's hanging on for dear life for parts of this interview. However, I think he handles the fact that he's a little out of his depth extremely well by frequently deferring to Wynn for explanations, never acting like he knows anything he doesn't, and displaying an eagerness to learn. Wynn is an intellectually demanding guest to say the least, and this is a great interview. Thanks to both of you for putting it together!
The flip side of Adam being a little out of his depth is the enormous amount of effort on display here: the questions he's prepared, his memory of her past content, the serious way he engages with her ideas. Adam has done a lot of work, both before and during the interview. It's wonderful
Watching Natalie speak in a conversational setting has made me even more impressed with how well-spoken she is. It's like watching a human thesaurus choose words intentionally in real-time lol. She's just so skilled at taking what she wants to say and using the words and phrasing that articulate the meaning clearly.
it's so healing to hear recent Contrapoints interviews. i'm so glad to hear her sounding healthy and happy, after feeling so much internal tension in a lot of her videos over the years. as a fellow tran it really means a lot to see the personal growth.
Me and my mum absolutely sit down and watch Natalie's videos on the TV. I think we even got popcorn for this one. I wouldn't do it for every youtuber, but there is so much attention to detail in her visuals that you're missing out if you don't actually watch them
I actually skipped "Twilight" video because I'm old ...and never saw Twilight... and thought "How on earth can she make 2 hours of twilight commentary? I'm gonna wait for a video with a spicier, more interesting topic" and now, NOW YOU TELL ME. will watch after this!
When I started watching it I was like "is she seriously gonna defend twilight crappy books for 2 hours?" But then it immediately opened my eyes to so many new ideas
I dunno, I read firmly non-dualism rather than Hegel style classic synthesis. Definitely up to interpretation though. Sometimes eastern philosophy is just the aesthetic of non dualism. Especially when compared to the sausage making of German philosophy
@@Aloddff I don't think there's a real difference. "Eastern" Non-Dualists still use dialectical language to describe history, but also recognize there is a higher reality than can be described by the dialectics inherent in language, which has been called the Tao, for example. It can be alluded to, but the nature of the conceptual location that is simultaneously activity and passivity is indescribable. I think this is the same as the Synthesis in Hegelian terms, which is essentially the Present Moment before any internal contradictions become manifest. Hegel was aware of Eastern Philosophy in his day, and similar concepts were available in ancient Greco-Roman-Egyptian philosophical texts, as well.
Amazing coincidence that I've just begun rewatching Natalie's work. Over the years I've found myself linking to her stuff more and more. Beyond her incredible wit and devastating self awareness, I think the most powerful part of her work is that she takes her "opponents" seriously. By creating a dialogue between realistic characters (realistic in their beliefs if not their demeanor) who often share similarities with audience members, I think she has a real advantage over most leftist content in terms of getting through to people. There's nothing more powerful than demonstrating to someone that you get where they're coming from by explaining their position, but then going a level deeper and compassionately plumbing the darkness of their innermost motivations. It can be uncomfortable. But when people feel seen they're usually way more open to changing their minds than if you just spew facts at them. She's honestly really one of the best content creators out there. People like to sneer at "pop philosophy" and other "pop" versions of academic fields, but science communication really is a life or death issue in this day and age. Covid proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt (climate change should have already but we know what happened there). Natalie represents perhaps the most effective version of stuff like that for the online generation. People who live on tik tok aren't going to be listening to CNN both sides-ing climate change, but they might be listening to Ben Shapiro making incredibly brain dead but memable content disparaging trans people. Natalie is an antidote to that bullshit. She's genuinely an absolute delight and one of the realest people on the internet today.
I agree. In a discussion about Jordan Peterson online, I suggested a young man go watch her piece, and another young man chimed in to say her thoughts had changed his mind about being an incel. He persuaded the first guy to go and watch that varying/opposing viewpoint. She’s that good.
I watch pretty much all of Natalie's interviews and I do wish they were more like this one. Avoiding the overview kinds of questions I've seen her answer a hundred times and really going into depth about one specific work. This rocked
I actually was bedridden and thought I’d check ContraPoint’s video, thinking it’s a “boring” lecture.. OMG! I was blown away with her logic, intelligence and wicked sense of humour! Her videos actually helped me endure my lying on my bed for 3 days!!! ❤
Im so excited Natalie is on this show!! Also, I've seen posts on social media where women talk about buying their male partners flowers or romancing them, and the men have a really strong and positive reaction to it. They're so happy to receive something they're usually expected to give. I think these posts are evidence that some people have intuited the concepts Natalie analyzed so thoughtfully.
For some reason I am always concerned that by giving flowers to men I would make them feel weird and less masculine. I've never tried it actually, now I have to
@@ilona3630 ask yourself, if a guy got offended by receiving flowers, is that a guy you want to date? Maybe so, maybe not! But please do give him flowers, compliments, desire in more ways than just sexually!
@@ilona3630I do think flowers carry a certain feminine cultural symbolism. I'm reminded of Shrek of all things: "I saw this flower and thought of you because it's pretty. I mean, I don't really like it, but I thought you might like it because you're pretty." I think this line really gets at the heart of the gesture. "I see you as beautiful. Here is another beautiful object that I present to you in recognition of your beauty." Beauty isn't something we culturally associate with masculinity, so I find myself wondering if there's an analogous gift object that could be presented to a man in recognition of his desirability. I struggle to name one. This is just me meditating on the subject and is not meant to discourage anyone from buying a man flowers. I think I'd be surprised and flattered by such a gesture.
@@ethangood9875 My ex loved getting flowers, music cds, any cool little trinkets, my now life partner doesn't care for flowers and I'm better off buying him e.g. new ice cream or serve new "exotic" fruits however they are supposed to be eaten, or in game gifts. My third previously ex was a woman and she really had zero interest in flowers and chocolates. Being gifted tiny indie games or better yet in game gifts for her was her jam, she maybe maybe would have been interested in lego succulents... It doesn't have to be flowers that you gift, just anything (usually but not always consumable goods or experiences). Just the whole thing that someone thought of you and bought the thing for you because they thought it would make you happier, is important. Like my partner could come across some fun looking buttons (for clothes) or even a cool looking washi tape and I would appreciate that a great deal more than a bouquet of flowers. People's interests are most important, if they have never received cut flowers before they should get it at least once unless they already know they dislike it (e.g. they dislike all plants or only want potted plants). I've had friends who by far prefer getting an origami flower from me than a real one, for instance, both because they felt it was more unique and that it eliminates the "burden" of caring for a living plant.
Same!! I will wait until the end of the week when I have the time and energy to properly sit down and pay attention. I pull up the video on my TV, pour myself a glass of wine and get comfy.
this, and i have to watch the video at least twice in one sitting (twilight kinda threw me off but usually i watch a new contrapoints video AT LEAST 2 times in one sitting)
Natalie: no one would’ve voted for a 3 hour video exploring twilight from every philosophical angle Me, an autistic person, with a twilight fixation: … I would have🥺
I definitely sit down with a bowl of popcorn and give Contrapoints videos my undivided attention when they come out. But that's partly because they are so infrequent that I like to treat them like an event, and I'm always rewarded for it because of how dense and thoroughly researched they are. I know sitting down that I will gain something from the viewing experience.
I love watching new Contrapoints videos when they do drop.....cuz I know, even though I'm alone in my room with the lights off save for my blue christmas lights and candles and incense, there are several thousand people watching it themselves, somewhere out there in the world, at the exact same time, along with me. It's.....cozy. :)
That is something that Natalie helped me understand about people with her videos - the whole desirability/incel dichotomy. Part of the toxic male lie that gets told to these people from the time that they are children is that attraction is transactional. I know this because I was fed the exact same nonsense when I was growing up. It gets told to everyone regardless of whether or not you're a straight male, but it applies most to young boys. They're told, "If you do these things and are this kind of person, then you will automatically receive companionship and that is how the world works, and if you are not receiving companionship then you are failing to do what you need to do and be who you need to be." They're told that, if you aren't feeling desired, that changing fundamental things about you is the only way to succeed. It gets dire. Pickup artistry comes from this bizarre belief that humans are basically machines and that if you perform certain actions, you can "hack" people into doing what you want them to do. MGTOW follows the trend of rejecting norms and "being above it all" or "holier than thou" that you see happen in so many other realms (veganism/vegetarianism, bicycling vs. automobile use, working out and weight loss, etc.). As someone who didn't quite struggle to this degree growing up, but definitely did look in the mirror and found the result lacking, I drew only on my own personal experience when dealing with people like this. Natalie taught me to try to be better. The main contributing factor of me not becoming an incel is that I had a better support network in place and the community didn't exist when I was a young adult. Subtle changes in either of those things could have sent me down a dark path, and I see now how easily I could've been lost. Perhaps not everyone needs to hear Natalie's words (I'd argue otherwise). But, for those who do, we realize just how valuable her input is. She's saving lives.
Natalie says that she'd never be so arrogant as to assume that anyone is watching her videos with a bowl of popcorn. And yet, not only do I indeed watch each of her new videos with a bowel of popcorn (and then replay them as background noise for weeks afterwards), but my best friend and I are both such fans that we'll say, "Okay, new Contra is out. First we watch it separately and then we watch it together in order to have a discussion about it!" Every time without fail.
I think a lot of men or masc presenting people could improve their lives significantly just by embracing that sometimes, we just want to be the little spoon.
I’ve always said this too, if men simply admitted and acted on how they wanted to be sexual and romantic with other men, the world would be a much safer more peaceful place.
I've only watched the intro so far but you left something massive out out of her intro. She's funny. Contrapoints videos are hilarious. More than informative and nuanced, her videos are entertaining. She should be remembered as one of the best comedians to have ever lived.
Even after multiple watches, most of her videos still have at least a few parts that make me burst out laughing. Just watched Envy for like the 10th time and I couldn't stop cracking up. She's one of the funniest people alive, I swear to god.
Seriously, there are a lot of video essay UA-camrs these days, but only Natalie can make a 1-or-2-hour video go by *fast*. Even the other greats like FoldingIdeas or hbomberguy still feel like a long video.
"I am totally unqualified to cover a news story this important, but as a straight white male, I will plow forward with confidence and assume I'm doing fine."
Having watched Adam and Natalie for so long, and now seeing them chat together, feels like an elevation. This is what millennial adulthood looks like. ❤
I have almost zero interest in Twilight, and yet I watched Natalie's entire (quite long) video because it was just so fascinating and well done. Layer after layer of thought-provoking insight and analysis.
Stopped dead in my tracks when I saw Natalie! She’s easily the best in the game and hearing her talk about her process is endlessly fascinating. I could have listened to this for another 2 hours.
That is exactly what it is for me. I love Natalie's ability to take such dense topics, and truly, *truly* dissect them in a way that is digestable and gets your brain thinking about the topic. It's less "affirming what I already know", but "pointing out an easter egg I missed". I love that she creates these videos, mostly solo, because her vision is untainted, and her ranting at a camera at 4am is highly relatable. As someone who enjoys when people infodump about their special interests (video essays often scratch this itch for me), it's just an added bonus that her videos provide think-pieces and stretch my brain when engaging with her content.
I have long thought that in the future people will be citing Contra's and PhilosophyTube's videos in academia like we do theorists today. They might not be writing down their ideas into books or papers but they are putting out better content than most academics of their field.
Natalie I want you to know that I watch your videos with my full attention. Your interviews I play as background, but YOUR videos get me to drop everything.
Having the two people most responsible from pulling me away from the far right in the same room is like a superhero team up. This is Punisher and Daredevil. This is Iron Man and Spiderman.
Wow that's great. I wish I could hear how exactly your thought process changed. Was it gradual or was there a specific instance in which things clicked for you? I do apologise if my question is offensive to you in any way.
@@AMN320 Not offensive at all! I was raised in a fundamentalist, religious environment with regular exposure to talk-radio garbage blasted at me literally every trip to and from school. I graduated and joined the Marines, and between that and college, I got exposed to a ton of new ideas and people that were not accessible when I was a kid. I got into politics then, and was immediately grabbed by the relatability, humor, and charisma of Adam and Contra. Meanwhile, as I was studying history and philosophy in undergrad. Their videos gave me questions to ask of my previous beliefs, and my studies gave me to the tools to ask them effectively. Meanwhile, the people I spent time around were always really encouraging and patient with me as I figured out a new worldview. By the end, I had a master's in history education and a passion for political theory. I started reading history, politics and philosophy outside of my class requirements and by the end of a few years my whole outlook on life had changed for the better. Now I'm a history teacher and do history videos here and on tiktok. I hope I can start people down the path to positive change through knowledge the same way these two fine folks did for me.
@@jonstertruck thanks for the reply. It was very interesting to read. I think that some people may not be able to let go of childhood conditioning because maybe there is an innate fear of things they don't understand!
Natalie, thank you for doing what you can to promote deeper thinking and understanding you are a light. Also may I say hearing someone say “No this is enough” I don’t want to go bigger or keep expanding is refreshingly anticapitalistic.
The fact that Natalie Wynn could get me to listen to a 3 hour long video about..... Twilight..... well, that is just proof as to why she is the best social media intellectual UA-camr.
I'd like Natalie to know that the first couple of times I watch her videos she does have my undivided attention. Only on rewatches I have her on the background 😅
I have to do the opposite! I know can’t take it all in at once so I have it on in the background the first time or two to like, subliminally prime my brain for actively watching her lol
Loved this interview, Adam. You come off as really humble, which I didn't expect b/c you usually play a character with such bravado. It honestly was refreshing. I appreciate how you went about this interview and let Natalie say her spiel, but I thought your questions really allowed her to get deep.
Great questions and interview as a whole. I had no knowledge of Adam Conover before this. I like his honesty and self-awareness and that he's not ego-captured. Have watched many of Natalie's videos, I've wondered many of the same things. I'm 2/3 in, hope you get to ask about the visual and dramatic aspect of her work.
I have been watching Natalie's content since years before she found herself. It has been a delight to see her find her way after quite a lot of genuine struggle. I have always found her inciteful, and I love that she has really found her voice and more people are getting to engage with her thoughts and ideas.
I 100% break out the snacks and drinks and sit down to watch Natalie's new video. She has built the trust from her previous videos so much that I know it's not going to be a waste of my time. She is also amazing at keeping you entertained. I loved this conversation. You really drove into specifics in the videos that I wanted more clarity or just simply more of.
It's so good to see interviews with people who actually enjoy and understand video essayists. You get to skip the preamble and explanations and get at what people actually want to find out: the deeper thought process of the people making them and how that makes their content so unique
Besides all the very excellent discussion of human desire, the convo in the last half about balancing the explicit desires of your audience with the necessity of trying things no one has asked for yet is spot on. So many people I've worked with in creative industries get this wrong, and don't understand the balancing act between the two, but the conversation between Adam and Natalie sums it up nicely.
She's amazing. I love her video about how the hate mob will extrapolate headlines in a telephone game and ruin peoples lives in an attempt to virtue signal. Someone gets in an argument with their gf, then the twitter headline says they fought, then people repeat that as he hit her, then the headline becomes hes abusive, then the headline becomes hes a grapist. Everyone in the twitter mob spreads this misinformation when the actual truth is they argued for a minute and now that persons life is ruined .
I always enjoy an essay video that uses something in Pop Culture to explore societal issues in a more nuanced & philosophical way. So Twilight becomes a vehicle for exploring human sexuality & social norms around gender in a broader sense but also a deeper meaning. It's very effective as well as creative way to do it.
It’s actually one of the oldest, laziest, and most criticized forms of philosophical exposition. Couching philosophical concepts in popular culture ephemera ages terribly, and was the subject of ridicule as far back as Plato.
There are so many things in society that I have always simply taken for granted. A prime example was school assemblies. We did them almost every week, it was incredibly mundane. Have you ever thought about all of the processes that actually have to occur for that school assembly? Scheduling the speakers, writing the speeches, disseminating the news, the guests giving their presentations, cleaning and setting up the facilities, sound and lighting equipment etc. To me, philosophy asks you to consider the underlying principles and thought processes of the mundane things we would be inclined to simply take for granted. Its become even more important when we live in a world where so many things seem increasingly hard to explain such as politics or the legal system. It demystifies aspects of these systems in a way that is very similar to how Adam Ruins Everything and Factually have demystified certain subjects.
Two of the people on youtube for whom I have a very high degree of respect! Adam, you really are a great interviewer. I can't imagine being able to have a conversation with someone like Natalie, and be able to say anything back to her that would be even worth her time to respond to. But you certainly function well on that level, and people like me learn a lot from the dialogue that results! Thank you both!!
I think the reason for why conspiracy theories seem so much more rampant today than before is because there's a lack of outlets for people to find meaning and purpose. Everything and anything you could possibly think of - somebody has found a way to package it with a pretty bow and sell it to us. Hence, more and more people are becoming more desperate and more willing to find whatever meaning they can in places they wouldn't have considered decades before.
For sure. Couple that with the devaluation of expertise, media literacy that has not kept up with the actual media, and a portion of the think tax ecosystem that exists to invent deceptive phrases to confuse casual listeners.
My conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theories aren't more rampant but they rather far more visible and documented. They're treated with a degree of cultural and political seriousness now that simply was not the case even as recently as the Church Universal And Triumphant buying doomsday bunkers all over Montana near mountains they believed sacred to the reincarnation of Merlin (I shit you not) in the 1980s. Conversely, every single smart, well-read leftist I know fully believes the FBI shot MLK, which is technically a conspiracy theory, but one wouldn't describe this belief as something that is "rampant" or the result of desperation, it lacks that same cultural contextualization. Y'know what I mean?
The free will discussion near the tail end of this conversation reminded me of the phenomenon where "following the first link in the main text of an English Wikipedia article, and then repeating the process for subsequent articles, usually leads to the Philosophy article." I really enjoyed this meeting of minds from two of my favorite creators/thinkers. Thanks for what you do!
I guess I watched all Contrapoints videos now... But when "Twillight" video was released I was a little bit intimidated to start watching a three hour video about a movie/book that I don't like... But boy, it was worth it! I guess that I watched it all because I trust all the quality videos and arguments, citations made by Natalie. She is amazing! And it is amazing watching this interview because Adam is awesome too. I miss Adam Ruins Everything... I learned and laughed a lot with that show
Okay just here to comment that in front of the TV with popcorn and my undivided attention is exactly how I watch Natalie's videos and only Natalie's videos. Our entire household gets together to watch.
Another BA (philosophy) here. I had not heard of Contrapoints but have been a big fan of PhilosophyTube - also hosted by a transgender woman coincidentally. Will look up the Contrapoints channel!
oh man on a relisten this is even more fascinating; it's So Cool to see/hear just how many thoughts go through natalie's head when she talks about a topic. unrelated but it's also really reassuring to see that she's also an expressionless Queen when listening :') as a person who has to choose between monitoring my expression to appear more "open" / "polite" vs. actually listening but letting my face kind of "drop" it just makes me feel a lot better about the times when i do the latter
I love apocalyptic movies because I am privileged. I think it is a deeply human desire to work on getting your food, secure your home and so on. but in my life, I never truly have to worry about these things, and engage in mostly abstract things and processes, especially in work. This makes the setback to a violent, ansrchistic dangerous world desireable (in fantasy) because it seems I would truly feel there, instead of swimming in this void with no apparent goal. 26:50
I'm pretty conservative personally, but I so much prefer having Contrapoints being the front facing voice of more progressive people and Trans people. Obviously thats not her job, but the earnest effort she puts into understanding the moral and political landscape is really admirable. I love her videos, and always find her refreshingly straightforward
I do actually sit down and give Contrapoints my complete and undivided attention for each and everyone of her videos. I have learned so much about myself, how to cope and move myself forward because of her work. Thank you.
19:30 I suspect it's compensatory, or fixative for many people. Some seem to feel weak/powerless in their daily lives, so their fantasy being that they're powerful makes sense. Others feel overwhelmed by responsibility and needing to be active. So their fantasy being to give up control to someone else makes sense.
Yes, this is corroborated by many people who are into the professional bdsm community. A lot of the submissive counterparts are indeed people who in their daily life, wield a larger amount of power or responsibility and I'm sure, feel great being in a situation where they can relinquish all of that. Of course this is certainly not the case for everyone, but it is a bit of a trend people will notice over their time and experiences.
This is one of my favorite interviews you've done. Natalie is by far my favorite modern philosophers and her videos are thought provoking to the point of 🤯 unironcically. I loved yalls dynamic and the extra insight you illicited on an amazing video by her! Keep up the great work! Miss Adam Ruins Everything sooooo much! ❤
“The bad boy is bad so that the good girl can stay good.” Natalie Wyn Twilight. I love that this was a true interview with Natalie about her work. Most of the time she is brought on as an expert for the LGBT community.
I love how most episodes of this show I've seen were focused on exploring some particular and complex issue, and here Adam's just like an excited teenage fan telling his favourite artist he really loved their last album for 1h20m.
I love contra points content. Long form video essays like hers, Abby Thorn's, yours and some more news make UA-cam worth watching. Her use of physical style to jar you into a concept is entertaining and forceful. Sometimes cringey, but those moments also seem to be the point. Not always easy (JP got way to easy a pass in my take) but always insightful
Contra point videos are an EVENT not just a release. My friends and I will try to race to share the video to the group first and will comment on them as we watch. These aren’t just videos or content but art.
Started watching last night, had to pause for sleep. After sleeping on it, I came away with these two insights: 1) if I identify that the thing I enjoy so much about shopping and materialism is the state of desiring the object but not having it yet, then it might be emotionally easier for me to stand back and just observe the happenings. I noticed that if I give enough time (days or weeks if possible) to let the desire fade, I frequently do not want the object anymore. It has taken me 2 bankruptcies and HUNDREDS of therapy appointments to feel this calm about it, though. 2) I feel a little bit of closure finally at the age of 35 about the shame I have felt for having been so captivated by Woody Allen films in my adolescent and teen years. I wasn’t able to fully reach and understanding until I heard Natalie say it, it was my own self-interest driving that fascination. Even though I didn’t know why in so many words, I could tell even as a child that the most likely path for me out of the low income class would be to polish my charm and look for opportunities for a wealthy, socially-established older man to seduce me. I was just responding to the system I was born into.
Something I've thought about a lot when it comes to building from concepts that come from queer culture is the notion of coming out being used as the period of time with which a person officially enters sexual adulthood, rather than arbitrarily defined ages of expectations. I realize that this is coming from a perspective of someone who is older and therefore I'm more used to people coming out at later ages in their life so this is the part that I'm interested in and think about. These individuals had to spend some amount of time contending with what sexuality meant to them and their life and when they chose to engage with that, they did on their own terms, not what was expected of them by society. At the moment, I'd envision it somewhat like culturally seeing people as completely nonsexual unless they're "out" (which is a public thing, like it is in our current society) even if that takes them 50 years; I suppose is how some people believe it ought to be anyway, but like it's been said our current society has this default acceptance of weirdo behavior as long as it's hetero.
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You've had Dan Olson, and now Natalie Wynn... So, when's HBomberguy coming on? I'm sure he could use a break from working on this year's 12-hour opus.
Where is the channel tagged?
Scroll, scroll, Contrapoints, CLICK
This tbh
"SIMP!"
For real
My brain said "WHAT" and I was already here.
Same
"Explained Jordan Peterson unlike any other piece of media I have ever come across" is a funny way of saying "In a bathtub with a inflatable JP body pillow"
😂😂
This was my first Contrapoints video.
Yeah it was that JP video I'm pretty sure that caught my attention too!
But can't always watch her videos.... because you really do need to buckle the fu*k up, as we all know she's going to really get you thinking and what she says and how it said and the imagery it's just a lot and for me I have to really be ready otherwise I'll wind up watching the video & not really take away all of what's being said. I said I'll just do the typical ADD zone out staring at the screen ish. And it's definitely worth it when I'm ready to pay attention I feel like she has helped me to understand at least a little bit her situation as well as others. I love her takes politically & socially!
@@Skate-n6w That's why you have to watch them in a bathtub with a glass of wine at 3 am.
Which is the only way to properly explain Jordan Peterson 😂
Natalie: "I'm not so arrogant that I think everyone who watches my videos has to sit down at the TV with a whole thing of popcorn and give me their undevided attention"
Meanwhile I put this up on my TV screen and I am sitting with a bowl of chips
Right? This is absolutely how I watch her videos 😂
I literally study hervideos. I rewatch them, pause to think, go back and listen again, etc etc etc
literally had a friend over to the house to sit and watch the full twighlight video with blankets and snacks - pausing only to stop and discuss some of the themes or refill the popcorn bowl. we got most of the way through it then finished it the next morning!
i've definitely started a Contrapoints video like at work with audio only, just to be like, what am i *doing*, i need to wait and watch this until i can actually watch it lol!
She is one of the few creators who does often warrant that kind of attention and rewatching
My life is measured in Contrapoints videos
The only appropriate measurement
Yep, same.
It's so, so frustrating to have lived my entire life as a man who just desperately wants to actually be wanted. Not needed, wanted. Desired. I have it now, in my 30s, but those years in waiting were hideous. The wretched realization that in almost any relationship the closest I would ever get to feeling desired by another would be a woman acquiescing to my advances, reflecting to whatever degree my interest in her back at me.
Or like, going to gay bars and getting hit on by men.
It's such a stunning moment, such a revelation, to finally see how intensely we *all* yearn to be the object of someone's desire. It can be such a desperate need that it drives us to extremes, to risky behavior, to choices and places we know are bad for us.
Damned patriarchy.
❤️❤️❤️ Well said.
@@TheAdamConover
Thanks man. Really digging the show. May your Patreon always prosper.
...this hts hard...
This. So much this. I spent all my 20s looking for a long term relationship, and when I finally met someone single and interested in me, the closest I got was feeling like an interchangeable avatar of male desire for her. I never felt wanted. I just felt that she wanted someone else to want her, regardless of who it actually was. Obviously, it didn't work out.
Relatedly, a lifelong friend of mine is trans (mtf), and she shared with me that the first time she ever felt desired in her life was after transitioning and dating a man for the first time. Pre-transition, she had been in a hetero relationship and marriage for 7 years.
I feel like so many people go through life without ever understanding the social forces that shape their behavior and identity, and how those forces affect happiness. Moreover, we aren't taught to empathize with people living with a different set of influences. If anything, we compete with each other and become bitter and resentful of the other side's perceived privileges.
Educational content like this is so important.
Hopefully more and more individuals being entrepreneurial or joining small creator businesses will revive a generation of people more intouch with themselves and are better aware & informed about how to approach friendships & relationships with empathy.
Thanks to clickbait media ("Ben Shapiro destroys woke college kid with facts & logic," etc) I used to think (several years ago though) that leftists weren't amenable to facts & logic. But then I came across Natalie's videos, & I became a better person.
She's so sweet & smart! I'm glad you're giving her a platform. More folks need to be aware of her.
honestly.. same tho :3
when a religious person starts bringing up the word logic, just walk away
Natalie is a liberal, not a leftist, but okay.
She platforms him tbh. She is double his size when it comes to subscribers and one of the most prominent gateways to breadtube
@@ElDaumoit's kinda funny since you'd think Adam would be the more mainstream one. He had a fuckin TV show and everything
Normally I’m irritated by a host greasing their guests, but Natalie has earned her flowers thrice over- if anything you’re egregiously underselling her.
her?
@@MaterialSquidYes, they're referring to Natalie as her. That's (often) how being female works.
she basically helped invent the youtube video essay genre. I'd say she was one of the first to really popularize it.
@@MaterialSquid your bigotry is tired
@@MaterialSquidyou’re in a bad space for this BS pal
If we can’t get more than 1 contrapoints video a year, at least she’s doing the UA-cam rounds
For like 3 bucks you can get all her tangents videos on Patreon.
Right? This, her appearance on Matt Bernstein’s podcast, etc feels like such a treat. We are being fed!
@@Mystprismdo you have to pay per month?
@@sophiathefurbst It is monthly subscription, but if you wish you pay for subscribe for a month and watch/download all the material.
@@Mystprism this is not a dig on your comment, so I hope you don't take it that way, but the issue with all these "patronage/pay-per-view" platforms where you can get extra content of your favorite creators is that they're all in US and they all charge US dollars. But the content creator's fan base is international. And personally speaking, for someone who's from a country where monthly minimum wage is equal of 500 dollars, paying 1-3 bucks for all of our favorite content creators become kind of impossible. And I'm not at all trying to say Natalie (or anyone else) should make their content free, but I wish there was a way these "paywalls" were adjustable to local economies. Rant over.
I know her pre transisition content isn't available anymore but contrapoints was the sole reason I was able to actually paradigm shift and UNDERSTAND what transition is and isn't
Man, I really really miss some of her older content. I sent her video about gender to so many people
she has the transcripts of those videos on her website last i looked but yeah :'( her content is so visually interesting and dense that just the script doesn't compare to what the video evoked. Still her decision us understandable and she owes us nothing (but someday maybe revisiting those topics by reusing her old scripts and production would be amazing)
Damn,I wish I could see her old content.
It's kind of a shame that her videos about The Golden One aren't up any more. That guy is hilarious.
@@bisma1352 I feel the same. I hope someday she revisits her older video topics to remake them because the information in them is still worth having. Even if she just used the b-roll images and did a voiceover.
I really appreciate the guts it took for Conover to have a guest like Wynn on. He typically covers technology and political stuff, with less philosophy. He's clearly thrilled to have her on, and it's equally clear (to me at least) that he's hanging on for dear life for parts of this interview. However, I think he handles the fact that he's a little out of his depth extremely well by frequently deferring to Wynn for explanations, never acting like he knows anything he doesn't, and displaying an eagerness to learn. Wynn is an intellectually demanding guest to say the least, and this is a great interview. Thanks to both of you for putting it together!
The flip side of Adam being a little out of his depth is the enormous amount of effort on display here: the questions he's prepared, his memory of her past content, the serious way he engages with her ideas. Adam has done a lot of work, both before and during the interview. It's wonderful
I was really pleasantly surprised by how respectful and not "HERE ARE MY THOUGHTS!!!!" the interview was.
my exact thoughts!
Yes, 100% impressed with Adam here. Fantastic interview
THIS
I’m often frustrated how Adam talks-over his guests, but there is none of that this time!
Watching Natalie speak in a conversational setting has made me even more impressed with how well-spoken she is. It's like watching a human thesaurus choose words intentionally in real-time lol. She's just so skilled at taking what she wants to say and using the words and phrasing that articulate the meaning clearly.
it's so healing to hear recent Contrapoints interviews. i'm so glad to hear her sounding healthy and happy, after feeling so much internal tension in a lot of her videos over the years. as a fellow tran it really means a lot to see the personal growth.
Me and my mum absolutely sit down and watch Natalie's videos on the TV. I think we even got popcorn for this one. I wouldn't do it for every youtuber, but there is so much attention to detail in her visuals that you're missing out if you don't actually watch them
That's a lot of popcorn
@@llamallama1509 i think it was just a bag to share! If we'd eaten popcorn the whole way through, we'd explode for sure
you have a really cool mum
I actually skipped "Twilight" video because I'm old ...and never saw Twilight... and thought "How on earth can she make 2 hours of twilight commentary? I'm gonna wait for a video with a spicier, more interesting topic" and now, NOW YOU TELL ME. will watch after this!
Oh yeah. It's only *barely* about Twilight.
When I started watching it I was like "is she seriously gonna defend twilight crappy books for 2 hours?" But then it immediately opened my eyes to so many new ideas
Oh ye of little faith...
Threeeee hours of thoughtful goodness
Hated Twilight, loved her video.
I like how she drew a hegelian dialectic into the "yin yang" masculine-feminine dynamic. Very smooth explanation.
I dunno, I read firmly non-dualism rather than Hegel style classic synthesis. Definitely up to interpretation though.
Sometimes eastern philosophy is just the aesthetic of non dualism. Especially when compared to the sausage making of German philosophy
@@Aloddff I don't think there's a real difference. "Eastern" Non-Dualists still use dialectical language to describe history, but also recognize there is a higher reality than can be described by the dialectics inherent in language, which has been called the Tao, for example. It can be alluded to, but the nature of the conceptual location that is simultaneously activity and passivity is indescribable. I think this is the same as the Synthesis in Hegelian terms, which is essentially the Present Moment before any internal contradictions become manifest.
Hegel was aware of Eastern Philosophy in his day, and similar concepts were available in ancient Greco-Roman-Egyptian philosophical texts, as well.
@@Aloddff Those germanics and their sausages... 😏
@@alephmale3171Not having formally studied any philosophy personally, your username made me chuckle
she?
Man, this girl rocks. I can listen to her 2 hour videos no problem. Girl can write.
and act, and edit, and design sets and hair and makeup and costumes, and play the piano beautifully... 🥰
@@lulucool45 yeah I know and do philosophy, but I just find her rhythm fascinating
girl?
@@MaterialSquidwoman.
@@TF-vb9us Male masquerading as female
Amazing coincidence that I've just begun rewatching Natalie's work. Over the years I've found myself linking to her stuff more and more. Beyond her incredible wit and devastating self awareness, I think the most powerful part of her work is that she takes her "opponents" seriously. By creating a dialogue between realistic characters (realistic in their beliefs if not their demeanor) who often share similarities with audience members, I think she has a real advantage over most leftist content in terms of getting through to people. There's nothing more powerful than demonstrating to someone that you get where they're coming from by explaining their position, but then going a level deeper and compassionately plumbing the darkness of their innermost motivations. It can be uncomfortable. But when people feel seen they're usually way more open to changing their minds than if you just spew facts at them. She's honestly really one of the best content creators out there.
People like to sneer at "pop philosophy" and other "pop" versions of academic fields, but science communication really is a life or death issue in this day and age. Covid proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt (climate change should have already but we know what happened there). Natalie represents perhaps the most effective version of stuff like that for the online generation. People who live on tik tok aren't going to be listening to CNN both sides-ing climate change, but they might be listening to Ben Shapiro making incredibly brain dead but memable content disparaging trans people. Natalie is an antidote to that bullshit. She's genuinely an absolute delight and one of the realest people on the internet today.
I agree. In a discussion about Jordan Peterson online, I suggested a young man go watch her piece, and another young man chimed in to say her thoughts had changed his mind about being an incel. He persuaded the first guy to go and watch that varying/opposing viewpoint. She’s that good.
Well said!
I watch pretty much all of Natalie's interviews and I do wish they were more like this one. Avoiding the overview kinds of questions I've seen her answer a hundred times and really going into depth about one specific work. This rocked
Agreed 100%, Adam nailed this interview by making it about one specific masterpiece of hers.
I actually was bedridden and thought I’d check ContraPoint’s video, thinking it’s a “boring” lecture.. OMG! I was blown away with her logic, intelligence and wicked sense of humour! Her videos actually helped me endure my lying on my bed for 3 days!!! ❤
Im so excited Natalie is on this show!! Also, I've seen posts on social media where women talk about buying their male partners flowers or romancing them, and the men have a really strong and positive reaction to it. They're so happy to receive something they're usually expected to give. I think these posts are evidence that some people have intuited the concepts Natalie analyzed so thoughtfully.
It is the BEST feeling, honestly. To feel wanted. To know someone was thinking of you, that they want you.
For some reason I am always concerned that by giving flowers to men I would make them feel weird and less masculine. I've never tried it actually, now I have to
@@ilona3630 ask yourself, if a guy got offended by receiving flowers, is that a guy you want to date? Maybe so, maybe not! But please do give him flowers, compliments, desire in more ways than just sexually!
@@ilona3630I do think flowers carry a certain feminine cultural symbolism. I'm reminded of Shrek of all things: "I saw this flower and thought of you because it's pretty. I mean, I don't really like it, but I thought you might like it because you're pretty." I think this line really gets at the heart of the gesture. "I see you as beautiful. Here is another beautiful object that I present to you in recognition of your beauty." Beauty isn't something we culturally associate with masculinity, so I find myself wondering if there's an analogous gift object that could be presented to a man in recognition of his desirability. I struggle to name one.
This is just me meditating on the subject and is not meant to discourage anyone from buying a man flowers. I think I'd be surprised and flattered by such a gesture.
@@ethangood9875 My ex loved getting flowers, music cds, any cool little trinkets, my now life partner doesn't care for flowers and I'm better off buying him e.g. new ice cream or serve new "exotic" fruits however they are supposed to be eaten, or in game gifts. My third previously ex was a woman and she really had zero interest in flowers and chocolates. Being gifted tiny indie games or better yet in game gifts for her was her jam, she maybe maybe would have been interested in lego succulents... It doesn't have to be flowers that you gift, just anything (usually but not always consumable goods or experiences). Just the whole thing that someone thought of you and bought the thing for you because they thought it would make you happier, is important. Like my partner could come across some fun looking buttons (for clothes) or even a cool looking washi tape and I would appreciate that a great deal more than a bouquet of flowers.
People's interests are most important, if they have never received cut flowers before they should get it at least once unless they already know they dislike it (e.g. they dislike all plants or only want potted plants).
I've had friends who by far prefer getting an origami flower from me than a real one, for instance, both because they felt it was more unique and that it eliminates the "burden" of caring for a living plant.
I am one of those people where my whole day pauses for a contrapoints video. It is a crime to watch contrapoints on a phone in my house.
💯 absolutely
Same!! I will wait until the end of the week when I have the time and energy to properly sit down and pay attention. I pull up the video on my TV, pour myself a glass of wine and get comfy.
I have watch parties with a friend!
this, and i have to watch the video at least twice in one sitting (twilight kinda threw me off but usually i watch a new contrapoints video AT LEAST 2 times in one sitting)
yeah 😅, the popcorn comment I was like "that's me 👀"
Natalie: no one would’ve voted for a 3 hour video exploring twilight from every philosophical angle
Me, an autistic person, with a twilight fixation: … I would have🥺
I definitely sit down with a bowl of popcorn and give Contrapoints videos my undivided attention when they come out. But that's partly because they are so infrequent that I like to treat them like an event, and I'm always rewarded for it because of how dense and thoroughly researched they are. I know sitting down that I will gain something from the viewing experience.
Im the same, but i break it up into about hour chunks, so i can digest fully. X
I love watching new Contrapoints videos when they do drop.....cuz I know, even though I'm alone in my room with the lights off save for my blue christmas lights and candles and incense, there are several thousand people watching it themselves, somewhere out there in the world, at the exact same time, along with me. It's.....cozy. :)
That is something that Natalie helped me understand about people with her videos - the whole desirability/incel dichotomy. Part of the toxic male lie that gets told to these people from the time that they are children is that attraction is transactional. I know this because I was fed the exact same nonsense when I was growing up. It gets told to everyone regardless of whether or not you're a straight male, but it applies most to young boys.
They're told, "If you do these things and are this kind of person, then you will automatically receive companionship and that is how the world works, and if you are not receiving companionship then you are failing to do what you need to do and be who you need to be." They're told that, if you aren't feeling desired, that changing fundamental things about you is the only way to succeed.
It gets dire. Pickup artistry comes from this bizarre belief that humans are basically machines and that if you perform certain actions, you can "hack" people into doing what you want them to do. MGTOW follows the trend of rejecting norms and "being above it all" or "holier than thou" that you see happen in so many other realms (veganism/vegetarianism, bicycling vs. automobile use, working out and weight loss, etc.).
As someone who didn't quite struggle to this degree growing up, but definitely did look in the mirror and found the result lacking, I drew only on my own personal experience when dealing with people like this. Natalie taught me to try to be better. The main contributing factor of me not becoming an incel is that I had a better support network in place and the community didn't exist when I was a young adult. Subtle changes in either of those things could have sent me down a dark path, and I see now how easily I could've been lost.
Perhaps not everyone needs to hear Natalie's words (I'd argue otherwise). But, for those who do, we realize just how valuable her input is. She's saving lives.
Natalie says that she'd never be so arrogant as to assume that anyone is watching her videos with a bowl of popcorn. And yet, not only do I indeed watch each of her new videos with a bowel of popcorn (and then replay them as background noise for weeks afterwards), but my best friend and I are both such fans that we'll say, "Okay, new Contra is out. First we watch it separately and then we watch it together in order to have a discussion about it!" Every time without fail.
I don't think there's another UA-camr who's name/face appearing in my feed gets me more excited.
I think a lot of men or masc presenting people could improve their lives significantly just by embracing that sometimes, we just want to be the little spoon.
Unfortunately, some of us have to live like Neo: there is no spoon.
I’ve always said this too, if men simply admitted and acted on how they wanted to be sexual and romantic with other men, the world would be a much safer more peaceful place.
Natalie’s production process is a primary factor leading me to support her on Patreon. She knows how to create a scene and tell a story.
I have never heard her perspective on this subject. What a gem she is. So smart and sweet.
she?
@@MaterialSquidWhy are you questioning a simple pronoun in so many replies
@@arir43cuz that’s all what they can do to undermine HER credibility and intellect yk, her being her.
F in chat for the poor lost squid
I've only watched the intro so far but you left something massive out out of her intro. She's funny. Contrapoints videos are hilarious. More than informative and nuanced, her videos are entertaining. She should be remembered as one of the best comedians to have ever lived.
Even after multiple watches, most of her videos still have at least a few parts that make me burst out laughing. Just watched Envy for like the 10th time and I couldn't stop cracking up. She's one of the funniest people alive, I swear to god.
@@chungbertflabbergast5995 She's fucking hilarious! I think this aspect of her art is under-appreciated
Seriously, there are a lot of video essay UA-camrs these days, but only Natalie can make a 1-or-2-hour video go by *fast*. Even the other greats like FoldingIdeas or hbomberguy still feel like a long video.
You are completely right. He praised her so much, and its insane that there’s still more stuff he left out
The world is a better place because of Natalie
Natalie "Contrapoints" Wynn, together at last with Adam "A Ryan Seacrest-Type" Conover? Sign me up!
Lmao the Seacrest-Type reference is golden
"I am totally unqualified to cover a news story this important, but as a straight white male, I will plow forward with confidence and assume I'm doing fine."
back in the 90s...
@@princepeachfuzz ... I was in a very famous TV shooowwwww !!! *music tinkles*
What is this, a crossover episode?
Having watched Adam and Natalie for so long, and now seeing them chat together, feels like an elevation. This is what millennial adulthood looks like. ❤
I have almost zero interest in Twilight, and yet I watched Natalie's entire (quite long) video because it was just so fascinating and well done. Layer after layer of thought-provoking insight and analysis.
Stopped dead in my tracks when I saw Natalie! She’s easily the best in the game and hearing her talk about her process is endlessly fascinating. I could have listened to this for another 2 hours.
That is exactly what it is for me. I love Natalie's ability to take such dense topics, and truly, *truly* dissect them in a way that is digestable and gets your brain thinking about the topic.
It's less "affirming what I already know", but "pointing out an easter egg I missed".
I love that she creates these videos, mostly solo, because her vision is untainted, and her ranting at a camera at 4am is highly relatable.
As someone who enjoys when people infodump about their special interests (video essays often scratch this itch for me), it's just an added bonus that her videos provide think-pieces and stretch my brain when engaging with her content.
I have long thought that in the future people will be citing Contra's and PhilosophyTube's videos in academia like we do theorists today. They might not be writing down their ideas into books or papers but they are putting out better content than most academics of their field.
Natalie I want you to know that I watch your videos with my full attention. Your interviews I play as background, but YOUR videos get me to drop everything.
I see Contrapoints, I click.
MOTHER
Me too. MOTHER!!!!!
30 seconds after upload, i had already linked it in discord :)
Spray bottle
@@EffigyOfCorrectOpinions
I think you mean "shock wand"
me too. mother!!!!!!!!!!!
Having the two people most responsible from pulling me away from the far right in the same room is like a superhero team up. This is Punisher and Daredevil. This is Iron Man and Spiderman.
That’s awesome. What a cool bunch of folks to have connected with. They’ve definitely been a positive force in my world as well. ⚡️✨
Wow that's great. I wish I could hear how exactly your thought process changed. Was it gradual or was there a specific instance in which things clicked for you?
I do apologise if my question is offensive to you in any way.
@@AMN320 Not offensive at all! I was raised in a fundamentalist, religious environment with regular exposure to talk-radio garbage blasted at me literally every trip to and from school. I graduated and joined the Marines, and between that and college, I got exposed to a ton of new ideas and people that were not accessible when I was a kid. I got into politics then, and was immediately grabbed by the relatability, humor, and charisma of Adam and Contra. Meanwhile, as I was studying history and philosophy in undergrad. Their videos gave me questions to ask of my previous beliefs, and my studies gave me to the tools to ask them effectively. Meanwhile, the people I spent time around were always really encouraging and patient with me as I figured out a new worldview. By the end, I had a master's in history education and a passion for political theory. I started reading history, politics and philosophy outside of my class requirements and by the end of a few years my whole outlook on life had changed for the better. Now I'm a history teacher and do history videos here and on tiktok. I hope I can start people down the path to positive change through knowledge the same way these two fine folks did for me.
@@jonstertruck thanks for the reply. It was very interesting to read. I think that some people may not be able to let go of childhood conditioning because maybe there is an innate fear of things they don't understand!
This crossover restored my mental health 🥹
Natalie, thank you for doing what you can to promote deeper thinking and understanding you are a light.
Also may I say hearing someone say “No this is enough” I don’t want to go bigger or keep expanding is refreshingly anticapitalistic.
The fact that Natalie Wynn could get me to listen to a 3 hour long video about..... Twilight..... well, that is just proof as to why she is the best social media intellectual UA-camr.
I'd like Natalie to know that the first couple of times I watch her videos she does have my undivided attention. Only on rewatches I have her on the background 😅
I have to do the opposite! I know can’t take it all in at once so I have it on in the background the first time or two to like, subliminally prime my brain for actively watching her lol
Please have F.D. Signifier on soon!
Yessssss we need more Fiq in the world
I briefly saw him in person on Lindsay Ellis's book tour a few weeks ago!
I'd get behind this. FD was the first person on youtube that got me over the hump to go sub to a patreon
@@ballman2010 heh, he got me over the hump of getting a lifetime subscription to Nebula
Natalie, going forward, I will be sure to watch all your videos in my home theatre setup with popcorn and a soda with no breaks. You deserve it.
Loved this interview, Adam. You come off as really humble, which I didn't expect b/c you usually play a character with such bravado. It honestly was refreshing. I appreciate how you went about this interview and let Natalie say her spiel, but I thought your questions really allowed her to get deep.
I usually find that Adam overwhelms his guests but the riffing with Natalie was wonderful! Love Contrapoints, and great interview :)
Great questions and interview as a whole. I had no knowledge of Adam Conover before this. I like his honesty and self-awareness and that he's not ego-captured. Have watched many of Natalie's videos, I've wondered many of the same things. I'm 2/3 in, hope you get to ask about the visual and dramatic aspect of her work.
She is truly brilliant and I am genuinely grateful for access to this type of thinking without having to pay a college tuition.
she?
@@MaterialSquidshe.
@@MaterialSquidyour confusion is understandable. We’re talking about Natalie in this instance, not Adam.
I have been watching Natalie's content since years before she found herself. It has been a delight to see her find her way after quite a lot of genuine struggle. I have always found her inciteful, and I love that she has really found her voice and more people are getting to engage with her thoughts and ideas.
Each of Natalie's videos, even her Tangents, are appointment viewing for my wife and I. We sit and WATCH.
I 100% break out the snacks and drinks and sit down to watch Natalie's new video. She has built the trust from her previous videos so much that I know it's not going to be a waste of my time. She is also amazing at keeping you entertained. I loved this conversation. You really drove into specifics in the videos that I wanted more clarity or just simply more of.
It's so good to see interviews with people who actually enjoy and understand video essayists. You get to skip the preamble and explanations and get at what people actually want to find out: the deeper thought process of the people making them and how that makes their content so unique
Besides all the very excellent discussion of human desire, the convo in the last half about balancing the explicit desires of your audience with the necessity of trying things no one has asked for yet is spot on. So many people I've worked with in creative industries get this wrong, and don't understand the balancing act between the two, but the conversation between Adam and Natalie sums it up nicely.
She's amazing. I love her video about how the hate mob will extrapolate headlines in a telephone game and ruin peoples lives in an attempt to virtue signal. Someone gets in an argument with their gf, then the twitter headline says they fought, then people repeat that as he hit her, then the headline becomes hes abusive, then the headline becomes hes a grapist. Everyone in the twitter mob spreads this misinformation when the actual truth is they argued for a minute and now that persons life is ruined .
I always enjoy an essay video that uses something in Pop Culture to explore societal issues in a more nuanced & philosophical way. So Twilight becomes a vehicle for exploring human sexuality & social norms around gender in a broader sense but also a deeper meaning. It's very effective as well as creative way to do it.
It’s actually one of the oldest, laziest, and most criticized forms of philosophical exposition. Couching philosophical concepts in popular culture ephemera ages terribly, and was the subject of ridicule as far back as Plato.
My god what a treat. Hearing her thought process on how she builds videos is so engaging. Excellent discussion.
There are so many things in society that I have always simply taken for granted. A prime example was school assemblies. We did them almost every week, it was incredibly mundane. Have you ever thought about all of the processes that actually have to occur for that school assembly? Scheduling the speakers, writing the speeches, disseminating the news, the guests giving their presentations, cleaning and setting up the facilities, sound and lighting equipment etc. To me, philosophy asks you to consider the underlying principles and thought processes of the mundane things we would be inclined to simply take for granted. Its become even more important when we live in a world where so many things seem increasingly hard to explain such as politics or the legal system. It demystifies aspects of these systems in a way that is very similar to how Adam Ruins Everything and Factually have demystified certain subjects.
Two of the people on youtube for whom I have a very high degree of respect! Adam, you really are a great interviewer. I can't imagine being able to have a conversation with someone like Natalie, and be able to say anything back to her that would be even worth her time to respond to. But you certainly function well on that level, and people like me learn a lot from the dialogue that results! Thank you both!!
I think the reason for why conspiracy theories seem so much more rampant today than before is because there's a lack of outlets for people to find meaning and purpose. Everything and anything you could possibly think of - somebody has found a way to package it with a pretty bow and sell it to us. Hence, more and more people are becoming more desperate and more willing to find whatever meaning they can in places they wouldn't have considered decades before.
For sure. Couple that with the devaluation of expertise, media literacy that has not kept up with the actual media, and a portion of the think tax ecosystem that exists to invent deceptive phrases to confuse casual listeners.
My conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theories aren't more rampant but they rather far more visible and documented. They're treated with a degree of cultural and political seriousness now that simply was not the case even as recently as the Church Universal And Triumphant buying doomsday bunkers all over Montana near mountains they believed sacred to the reincarnation of Merlin (I shit you not) in the 1980s. Conversely, every single smart, well-read leftist I know fully believes the FBI shot MLK, which is technically a conspiracy theory, but one wouldn't describe this belief as something that is "rampant" or the result of desperation, it lacks that same cultural contextualization. Y'know what I mean?
Adam is really for the people, great conversation! Thanks for bringing her on.
The free will discussion near the tail end of this conversation reminded me of the phenomenon where "following the first link in the main text of an English Wikipedia article, and then repeating the process for subsequent articles, usually leads to the Philosophy article."
I really enjoyed this meeting of minds from two of my favorite creators/thinkers. Thanks for what you do!
Frankly all her content blows me away. Been watching for I don’t even know how many years now.
I guess I watched all Contrapoints videos now... But when "Twillight" video was released I was a little bit intimidated to start watching a three hour video about a movie/book that I don't like... But boy, it was worth it! I guess that I watched it all because I trust all the quality videos and arguments, citations made by Natalie. She is amazing! And it is amazing watching this interview because Adam is awesome too. I miss Adam Ruins Everything... I learned and laughed a lot with that show
Two of my favorite people! Thank you for having her on Adam!
I can literally never get enough of Natalie talking about anything.
Okay just here to comment that in front of the TV with popcorn and my undivided attention is exactly how I watch Natalie's videos and only Natalie's videos. Our entire household gets together to watch.
Another BA (philosophy) here. I had not heard of Contrapoints but have been a big fan of PhilosophyTube - also hosted by a transgender woman coincidentally. Will look up the Contrapoints channel!
You're in for a treat!
oh man on a relisten this is even more fascinating; it's So Cool to see/hear just how many thoughts go through natalie's head when she talks about a topic. unrelated but it's also really reassuring to see that she's also an expressionless Queen when listening :') as a person who has to choose between monitoring my expression to appear more "open" / "polite" vs. actually listening but letting my face kind of "drop" it just makes me feel a lot better about the times when i do the latter
Thank you for having Natalie on! And yes, Natalie, I'm glad you continue to surprise us with passion project topic choices.
1:15:33 ANIMAL WELL!! Amazing. The dev Billy Basso built his own game engine and everything. That game is a work of art. 🌻
I love apocalyptic movies because I am privileged. I think it is a deeply human desire to work on getting your food, secure your home and so on. but in my life, I never truly have to worry about these things, and engage in mostly abstract things and processes, especially in work. This makes the setback to a violent, ansrchistic dangerous world desireable (in fantasy) because it seems I would truly feel there, instead of swimming in this void with no apparent goal. 26:50
I'm pretty conservative personally, but I so much prefer having Contrapoints being the front facing voice of more progressive people and Trans people. Obviously thats not her job, but the earnest effort she puts into understanding the moral and political landscape is really admirable. I love her videos, and always find her refreshingly straightforward
Always delighted when two of my favorite creators talk to each other about work that I'm familiar with.
I do actually sit down and give Contrapoints my complete and undivided attention for each and everyone of her videos. I have learned so much about myself, how to cope and move myself forward because of her work. Thank you.
Natalie is absolutely brilliant. Been a huge fan for years, looking forward to this interview!
It’s a happy day when Natalie show up on your feed ❤🤩
I came to UA-cam to look for ContraPoints content and this was the first thing that popped up! Thanks Algorithm!
NATALIE!!!
The very smartest and most dedicated UA-camr out there
I can't find words to describe what a great conversation this is! I actually paused in the middle to continue watching tomorrow to prolong my joy!
I watch every one of your videos Natalie. And I watch a lot of media. You're one of the few that I never miss.
19:30 I suspect it's compensatory, or fixative for many people.
Some seem to feel weak/powerless in their daily lives, so their fantasy being that they're powerful makes sense.
Others feel overwhelmed by responsibility and needing to be active. So their fantasy being to give up control to someone else makes sense.
Yes, this is corroborated by many people who are into the professional bdsm community. A lot of the submissive counterparts are indeed people who in their daily life, wield a larger amount of power or responsibility and I'm sure, feel great being in a situation where they can relinquish all of that. Of course this is certainly not the case for everyone, but it is a bit of a trend people will notice over their time and experiences.
Yay! She is actually the best, and such a real person.
This is one of my favorite interviews you've done. Natalie is by far my favorite modern philosophers and her videos are thought provoking to the point of 🤯 unironcically. I loved yalls dynamic and the extra insight you illicited on an amazing video by her! Keep up the great work! Miss Adam Ruins Everything sooooo much! ❤
“The bad boy is bad so that the good girl can stay good.” Natalie Wyn Twilight. I love that this was a true interview with Natalie about her work. Most of the time she is brought on as an expert for the LGBT community.
I love how most episodes of this show I've seen were focused on exploring some particular and complex issue, and here Adam's just like an excited teenage fan telling his favourite artist he really loved their last album for 1h20m.
What a score of a guest, best in the business since 2016, I'm so glad to have Natalie as my internet big sister
this is almost 1 hour and 30 minutes of adam fanboying over natalies work and im all here for it.
I love contra points content. Long form video essays like hers, Abby Thorn's, yours and some more news make UA-cam worth watching. Her use of physical style to jar you into a concept is entertaining and forceful. Sometimes cringey, but those moments also seem to be the point. Not always easy (JP got way to easy a pass in my take) but always insightful
Absolutely adore that woman. Sheer class.
Natalie and Adam!? Truly a meeting of the minds!! 🤩
I'll always watch an interview with Natalie and this is the best one I've seen.
I'm so glad Natalie does interviews. Thank you for a great one ❤
Contra point videos are an EVENT not just a release. My friends and I will try to race to share the video to the group first and will comment on them as we watch.
These aren’t just videos or content but art.
This interview gave me a new level of appreciation for Natalie's work. Awesome episode!
Ugh I love contrapoints so freaking much, I could listen to Natalie talk all day. ❤
Started watching last night, had to pause for sleep. After sleeping on it, I came away with these two insights:
1) if I identify that the thing I enjoy so much about shopping and materialism is the state of desiring the object but not having it yet, then it might be emotionally easier for me to stand back and just observe the happenings. I noticed that if I give enough time (days or weeks if possible) to let the desire fade, I frequently do not want the object anymore. It has taken me 2 bankruptcies and HUNDREDS of therapy appointments to feel this calm about it, though.
2) I feel a little bit of closure finally at the age of 35 about the shame I have felt for having been so captivated by Woody Allen films in my adolescent and teen years. I wasn’t able to fully reach and understanding until I heard Natalie say it, it was my own self-interest driving that fascination. Even though I didn’t know why in so many words, I could tell even as a child that the most likely path for me out of the low income class would be to polish my charm and look for opportunities for a wealthy, socially-established older man to seduce me. I was just responding to the system I was born into.
Something I've thought about a lot when it comes to building from concepts that come from queer culture is the notion of coming out being used as the period of time with which a person officially enters sexual adulthood, rather than arbitrarily defined ages of expectations. I realize that this is coming from a perspective of someone who is older and therefore I'm more used to people coming out at later ages in their life so this is the part that I'm interested in and think about. These individuals had to spend some amount of time contending with what sexuality meant to them and their life and when they chose to engage with that, they did on their own terms, not what was expected of them by society. At the moment, I'd envision it somewhat like culturally seeing people as completely nonsexual unless they're "out" (which is a public thing, like it is in our current society) even if that takes them 50 years; I suppose is how some people believe it ought to be anyway, but like it's been said our current society has this default acceptance of weirdo behavior as long as it's hetero.