Sourcing and buying materials for the blacksmith shop
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- Опубліковано 1 кві 2018
- I am often asked about what sizes and types of steel a beginning blacksmith should have on hand. While each shop has different needs I will discuss some material options and take a trip to the steel yard.
Thank you for watching. Black Bear Forge is a small one person shop located in Southern Colorado.
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The following list provides just a few resources to help you find supplies and equipment for blacksmithing.
www.piehtoolco.com/
www.centaurforge.com/
www.blacksmithsdepot.com/
www.blacksmithbolt.com/
www.oldworldanvils.com/
www.nimbaanvils.com/
fontaninianvilandtool.com/
www.abana.org/
www.mcmaster.com
kensironstore.com/
Blacksmithing and related activities can be hazardous. These videos are not a substitute for competent professional instruction. Your safety is your sole responsibility. Always use appropriate safety equipment including eye and ear protection when working in the shop. Follow manufactures safety guidelines for the use of all equipment. In the event something shown in one of these videos seems unsafe, it is up to you to make the appropriate changes to protect yourself.
There's no such thing "scrap steel" - there's just bits of steel i haven't found a use for yet.
Dammit! I loved Smitty, and then I saw the truck. ❤️💯❤️💯❤️💯
Outstanding video. Especially invaluable for a beginner looking at placing a first time order at a steel supplier. Saved me so much time and embarrassment haha.
When i saw your outside rack I found myself thinking, "You've got some nice looking steel".
It sounds like you like alot of us have put our hands in our pockets only to pull out lint lol that's 1 reason I like watching your vids Mr John😇😁
my two favorite things in this video. this guy. that cat. 0:53
ThanksJohn! My local steel supplier’s “drop” rack funds their Christmas party. I have never spent more than $20 (cash only) for basically whatever I can hand-carry out in one trip.
Nice square body truck i drive a 87 and a 84 myself.
Mine steel shop will sell you what ever you want at any size. Cut offs are dirt cheap and it’s only a little extra cost to take day 10’ of a 20’ bar. They even cut for free. I love it. They also have a cat in the office it’s great.
This reminds me of the local blacksmith that my Dad told me about. He retired (died) in the 60’s.He would go to town every so often with his 36 ford and get steel and bring it back strapped to the side and over the roof. It would take him all day there and back. Roads have greatly improved its a 20 minute run now one way. Just thought I would share. By the way he also was one of the best baseball pitchers around here and played into his late 60’s.
keep on keeping on
0:53 & 2:28 kitten!! Smitty thinks correct
You definitely got a nice location , my suppliers will not allow the customers to cut there stock. Insurance regulations.
I just found me a local steel dealer, thank God because shipping was eating me alive. And they have a drop box that i will hit everytime i go. Thanks for the video.
That is awesome!
I hope smitty is still around! He seems like a good helper.
nice load of steel! thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience John!!!
Any time!
Came for the knowledge, love your content, stayed for the cat.
Awesome! Thank you!
I think I saw a pussy cat, I did, I did see a pussy cat! I'm very happy with my local metalconstruction company, always time for a coffy and they like to hear about my little projects. They cut everything for free and help me out with ideas, what more can I wish?!
Wow sometimes I forget how blessed I am to have so many steel yards , machine shops, scrap yards and salvage yards so close by.
Thanks for taking the time. I'm not a cat person but have a former feral that took up residence in covered wood pile. She would run into the pile every time she saw me. Eventually I set a resin chair out there and held a piece of bacon to her entrance until a pink nose agreed to it. Over two weeks I moved the chair away a bit and.....bacon is awesome! She is my shadow now, constantly talking to me as I work out there. Got a dog to replace the Border Collier, hard loss, a Border/English Setter and after testing, my free range cat is all over that dog. being the creative sort, I named her Kitty Cat. No more bacon after those two weeks..... I guess you're a cat person if you post a cat story here.... Sorry folks!
Cats have a way of changing people into cat people.
I too have a stray that wandered in, I fed and it never left. His name is Kitty. He is quite the talker, and gets along well with my dogs.
My stray cat loves to perch on my vintage jeep, so his name is Willy. My stray dog showed up about 5 years ago, quickly named himself. His name is Kaos. He's a well named Australian Shepherd. They make shop time more fun.
We have Jersey and her kitten...hereto unnamed, so we call her "Fattywad" since she was the only survivor of Jersey's first litter and getting all the milk. We have a rambunctious little cat named Angus, and a stray that has adopted us (he just walks into the house when he feels like it) we named Titus. Plus our old hound dog, Wilbur. I'm a cat person that was converted by a cat named Shadow (passed now).
@@BlackBearForge they really do. One can even get annoyed and yell at them; they shoo away and 20 min later they act like you never didn't like them.
A fun ride along and an awesome truck! Nothing beats old iron... in all it's forms!
I'm around alot of old people, I see how to talks, how he carries himself, how he goes about his actions. He gets down, I dont know how many of yall pick up on this.
You're my all time favorite youtuber but after seeing you with the cat smitty, you've gone up even higher!!
I've got a helping cat called gus, 🙂
Thanks. Unfortunately Smitty isn't coming to the shop anymore. To keep him away from the nesting birds he became an indoor cat this year. But he is still loads of help in the basement wood shop.
Thats completely understandable. You're a good owner, he likes you a lot
wow thats alot of steel you got wish i had a steel yard to buy from only lowes or online where shipping is high
Reminded me of a story. I guy brought a 20 foot long creosote rail road beam to the sawmill one day to have them rip it for him. He hauled it there from over in the center of Illinois which was about a 50 mile drive and hauled it on his Pontiac station wagon. He did so by driving over top of it, picking up one end and tied it to the front bumper, picked up the other end and tied it to the back bumper and away he went. I will admit... it worked.
I have actually seen that idea in some sort of old magazine reprint.
To bad most new vehicles don't have bumpers that that would work with. That would work great w/20'ft Steel if you have good clearance. And a truck with good clearance, it may be good to weld on some supports for a rod or chain to hook to. Also for those long ladders and lumber. Make sure to tie wire up to chain, etc. good. Don't want to loose a 20ft bar into a car behind you at 60 mph. Also remember a red flag on the end, a canvas bag over both ends, a rope between, tied together would help keep them slidding apart. Center ones slide eazy.
My local metal seller has a scrap bin and rack, 20% discount. I rarely buy anything else but out of the scrap racks!
Our local hardware store is eye watering expensive for steel. I had to buy a bit of 10mm square to finish a project, only needed a metre or so, it was a Sunday, so no steel suppliers open. Cost me $15 for 2m of it. I was just about crying when I handed over my loot!
Thats an expensive way to go.
thanks for showing us round your gaff john ,looks pleasant out there ,its always chucking it down here in wales .cant leave steel out in the open here it will soon rust ,take care Ant.
I live near D.C & when I first got my mill and lathe I tried going to every scrap yard, they looked at me like I was crazy when i asked to "buy" scrap metal. There is only 1 metal dealer and they only sell full pieces and have a big sign, "No Cutting on location". I found 1 fab shop, so I might try them, because i want to build a anvil type block for some upcoming videos, where i go back to basics(I mainly do stock removal now). I have a propane forge outside, but i haven't use it in a long time because I built a heat treat oven inside. I order all my knife steel online(and other small pieces)... great video. take it easy
I love your truck...brings back memories! lol
going to the hardware store with grandpa
Great video, cool cat and awesome pick-up truck!
Funny. I’m in augusta Georgia and I’m good friends here with the brother of the shop boss at Midwest- small world!
Smity seems to be a great helper
He thinks he's the best
We have an industrial metal supplier here (im in oil country, my city manufactures a ton of stuff for oilfield) as long as im buying over $100 at a time i can pay as low as 30C Canadian for 3/8 square
Nice stock pile sir. I know that steel yard well. Lived in the area many years .
I bring two pieces of heavy tubing to help me bend in half the 12 and 20 foot round and square bars up to about 3/8. They usually don't charge me for the cuts on anything bigger unless they're super busy.
I've also brought a chisel and bought a brick-sized piece of mild for 2$ to use as a cold cutting anvil, in the parking lot. Worked out.
Very informative video. i've got one metal fab business source where i trade farm veggies in the fall, for going through his scrap and cut off bins for various materials.
Trade is always nice
This is just the information I needed! Thank you John!
A bit late this but if youput the buckets on bricks and punch a hole or two it will hold the rust back a bit,but thinking about it i bet you allready done that.
Thanks John, most of my steel is recycled but I do buy mild at my local supplier. They are very fair with me and will often let me scavenge odd bits and pieces from their saleable scrap at no cost!
Out here in the sticks and too far from any decent steel supply house. But plenty of wrecking yards nearby, and love your tip about carrying a portable cutting rig of some sort, even just a cordless grinder (with extra discs and batteries of course)... thx!
Good video. Thank you
Awesome video John, Thanks for taking us along. I like these type videos the best.
Thank you John this is was alot of big help.
Good information and ideas. Nice cat.
Thanks for the fine presentation, John.
Great tip on the remnant offcuts!
I really do appreciate your videos! I look forward to each one and learn so much. God bless you.
hey I'm a blackamith too! thanks for the field trip!
Great video. Good practical info. Can't believe I missed this earlier last year.
Here's a suggestion: I like to use 1/4 round for hooks and small trivets. The stands that hold funeral wreaths are 1/4" and are very useful stock if you can get any. There is an old cemetery near me and whomever was maintaining the grounds had for years thrown the old stands (with the Styrofoam rings that hold the flower arrangements still attached) over the back fence into the woods. Most were covered with leaves with just a portion showing. I recovered several dozen stands from the woods. They have 3 legs with about 10' of 1/4 rod. NOTE: I did NOT take any stand from inside the cemetery grounds. That would be reprehensible if not illegal. I also found buried under years of accumulated tree litter a 1" square rod, about 6' long, that sparked like wrought iron. I gave it to a buddy as a Christmas present. I would recommend checking around the boundaries of cemeteries for discarded metal.
I love my local store. It has a whole part that is .50c per lb. on all remnants. They have chunks of hydrologic cylinder rods alot
Thank you for taking us along. As always a great, educational video, and of course a blacksmiths cat has to be named Smitty.
Pretty obvious huh?
Thanks Jonhn, you always have good information. I live near a scrap yard that sales new steel that may be bent or have some rust that they price at a discount.
glad to see you’re a Chevy guy!!
Great
From Centennial, South East of Denver. Just getting into blacksmithing. Made blades in the past stock removal method. Forged smaller projects like straight razors, strikers, camp forks etc. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Not to far away then. Are you familiar with Rocky Mountain Smiths? Our next demo is on the 21st in Broomfield.
Black Bear Forge I'm
I'm not, if you could / have the time to forward me the information I would enjoy attending, if it's an open venue.
Say John where is the demo in Broomfield? I am in Arvada.
There will be a flier with directions on the RMS web site at www.rockymountainsmiths.org
It's a stihl cutting... steel
and still cutting after all these years. 😂
Over here in Scotland mild steel is easy to come by and relatively cheap, my local guys cut it for free too. Tool steel/hardenable on the other hand is quite difficult. Most of what i use is from scrap or you know when you buy a set of hole punches but really only needed one.
i live in town and it's easy to get hold of steel at little effort. they are happy to sell at a length or 2 if needed. if i lived at a distance i would buy quantity as well. Great video.
We live about 30 minutes from town too. Further if we want to go to the steel shop, but we have a scrap yard right down the hill maybe a 5 minute drive and going through there, it almost all looks like it has a place in or outside of my shop, Lol.
Down here the factory ends of bars are painted with a colour matching the grade of steel. Unlike paint markers, the paint ends doesn't generally rub off. Personally I only cut from one end of a bar so the factory end remains intact and I can instantly see what it is. At a pinch, mark that end rather than the centre of the bar because chances are you'll cut your marking off, forget to re-write it, and much later be wondering what it is. Don't ask how I know that ;)
Great video full of information for the novice blacksmith. Keep them coming.
I work close to a steel supplier that only sells mild steel also deals in scrap. I look for the remenance that they throw into the scrap bins. cause I know what it is and it doesn't have all the rust...I pay .50 a lb for it. and it right on my way home from work. great video!!
I think I see the mountain lion ! Lol
Vary helpful. Remnants is key word for me, we have a machine shop not far from here I'm hoping they can supply me with enough to support my hobby/education
I recently attended a farm auction and they couldn't get a bid on a four-section spring tooth harrow. I bought it for $25 and now have about 30 quality spring steel bars that are about 2 1/2" X 1/4" and about 30" long. Lots of blades hidden in all that spring steel. Farm auctions are sometimes a great place to pick up material for the shop.
There is some pretty good steel in old farm implements.
Why is it that the old steel iike pre 1950's, can sit for years in a grove of trees and only have a dusting of surface rust, and no galv., but not so with modern steel?
great details can you make a vide about how known(41xx) and s7 and spring steel ect... ect... acts when forged and hammered to simple shape?
Here in Belgium it turns out most steelyards have nothing but mild steel and some stainless, I spent months searching for a place that could get me any kind of carbon steel that could actually be hardened.
With more research i believe the steel bore rod is 1141 resulfurized medium carbon cold finish steel. Have you ever used this type of steel?
Kitty! You may think about a portaband. Less sparks, and less mess..
I have a portaband. But I don't think it's the best option for cutting in the rough, so to speak. It is easy to bind up or break a blade if the material isn't well supported and that can be hard to do in the yard at some steel suppliers. But it is an option.
Thanks so much for this. The general jist is surprisingly transferable to british supply chains. I like using scrap, but when your learning its really helpful to use materials you are 100% sure of so you know its not you screwing up. Really helpful.
I had some success with a local stockist who holds tool steels, but second time I went they made 101 excuses why they couldnt deal with me (Different guy, just couldnt be bothered I think) I've just found one other local within 15 mins, just their website says they only stock round bar :P But I may be able to deal with a much larger place 40mins away. They have everything and may even deliver for fairly cheap. Otherwise I'd already considered a cordless cutter as a way to buy stock lengths and transport myself, good excuse for a new tool.
Definitely hard with steel suppliers disappearing here, and those left really arent interested in non industrial buyers :P
I'm pretty lucky that this supplier doesn't seem to mind the little guy.
If my trip to the steel yard was only 3 hours I might but new steel lol the nearest place to me is over an hour away.. I prefer to cycle up...
at 4:31. I think I see a section of rail road track right under your neck in the shot. Could you at all make a stake anvil out of that if you were to draw out the stake portion from the head of the rail and then forge a horn from one end of the flat bottom sides?
We've only got one steel yard nearby, but they will do one "courtesy" cut per bar, so i can get everything into 10' sections at least. I've not found a scap yard that will let you poke around to find good high carbon scrap though.
I will have to talk about online sources one of these days
I made my first trip to by steel from a distributor. I was surprised they didn’t have a cut charge. I spent $50 and will have steel for a long time. They had remnant bin I got 2 2x4 blocks. He said it was 1036. I am going to try to make some half round swedge
Thats a great deal if you don't have to pay for the cut.
Good video to help folks new to buying steel.
I guess I'm fortunate that my supplier has never charged me for cutting, even when I only buy one or two sticks. Also, I always load my pickup with the tailgate UP so I never have to worry about any pieces sliding out and/or some dumb*ss running into the steel sticking out the back (of course, the major damage would be to them). Most states require some form of high visibility flagging for anything sticking out past the body, some 3' or other length.
I usually do as well, but this was over 1,300 pounds and i didn't want that much weight on the end of the tail gate.
That would be a bit rough on the tailgate, I agree. One could make a low height brace, sorta like a headache rack on the rear, inside the tailgate.
You come up with the most useful ideas for viewers, whether it be actual smithing or things related somehow to smithing.
I need to make a full length rack. Then they would just set the full order on the rack with their crane and I only have to move it one time at home.
I'd add a decent sized pair of bolt cutters to the tool kit for cutting bars of small stock, chain, etc. Quick, handy, and no battery worries. Of course, the thickness you can cut depends on the size of the cutters, and the guy behind it. (I'd hate to argue with the guy who could cut 3/4+ stock with a standard set of cutters!) :)
You can also buy a small power inverter to run a corded angle grinder right off your vehicle while it idles, no battery issues. They are not terribly expensive, and a cheaper option if you don't already own a good cordless grinder and spare batteries.
It pays to shop around, there are yards that sell by the foot, and you can avoid cutting fees. Their price per foot is usually a couple cents higher, but the money you save in cutting fees more than makes up for it.
No real scrap yards in my area, they are all under contract to China, and the few who will sell to you want so much (90-110% of retail new per lb.) it's a better option to go buy new and have known quality. One yard near me even charges a fee to just look around. (One of many reasons I plan to move within the next year or so.)
I used to take a pair of 4 foot bolt cutters. But they had a maximum of 1/2" and that was more work than I wanted to tackle. But if you're after smaller stuff they can be a great option. I think most of my scrap these days comes from other people more so than scrap yards.
I have a 12ft trailer I built. And fab a ladder rack on it and I haul all my 20ft sticks on it. I have less drop or should I say I use more of the stick when it's 20ft than 10 ft sticks
Being able to haul the full stick is the best option. I also take the time to cut common bars in lengths that divide well into the sizes I use.
Can you go over how to find a supplier of new high carbon steel and the best way to buy it? This video was really helpful.
I will plan to do a second video in that subject.
where do i get a smitty , looks like a useful cat
Good tips. I live in Virginia where we get 40 + inches of rain a year. Do you think that is too much for an a outside rack
Depends on how fast you go through it. Just adding a roof over the rack would help.
I like the truck John! Is the tank in the back for sap?
The tank is for hauling water, it's the only way we get water to our house.
I think that your a bit the wrong way round! When you start out, you buy what you need, which in turn, leaves you off-cuts, these off-cuts then become the basis of your stock! This is what I found doing steel fabrication! Thanks for your great videos, regards, Matthew
I'm amazed they let you run that saw on their property. Most places make you leave the lot for liability reasons.
They have never said anything and I am sure I'm not the only one that does it this way.
Looks like we drive the same model truck...or nearabouts. Mine is a '77 C-10. Your's may be a year or so newer. My problem is finding a reliable source of good coal to work with. I live in Mississippi and we don't have any coal mines anywhere nearby. That means whatever I get has to be shipped in. Your thoughts?
This one is a 73 C25 (3/4 ton). Coal is getting harder and harder to come by. High grade coal used to be mined in this area but the steel mill no longer burns coal and the few blacksmiths couldn't keep the mines in operation.So if i want good coal I have to have it shipped. Every year or so a small group gets together and orders a truck load to cut the average cost of shipping. Thats one reason I use propane for most of my work.
Tractor Supply sells Anthracite, and you can order it in to the store for free shipping, $6/40lb bag, sometimes on sale for less. Anthracite takes a little bit of a learning curve, as it burns hotter and doesn't pack, sparks a bit, but really not unmanageably, and lasts longer, too. Main drawback is you really need an electric blower to keep a little bit of air to it when idling. It's also a good option if you ever want to set up a smelter or a kiln. Nearest other coal seller to me is 4hrs away, charges an arm and a leg when they even have it, and usually wants to sell me the dregs. TS is the better option. Use the "nut" coal, not the "pea" (Some use a mix of the two). TS' nut coal can run a little large, but better to do a little breaking up than to have too small of chunks to manage properly. Would I prefer bituminous? You bet, but with a long drive for dubious quality, at 4X the price, I'll use what I can get, until I can find a reliable supplier or move to an area that is a bit more 'smith friendly. Avoid Lignite, might as well be burning dirt.
TS nut coal is what I've been using. Unfortunately, TS won't ship coal to the local store here...I have no idea why they won't. We typically make a trip further north and we'll pick up several hundred lbs while we're there.
That really is odd, I'm surprised that TS would miss a sale, esp. if you're buying several hundredweight at a time!
at 4:51 are those knife blade shaped chunks till disc cleaners? I came across some and I was curious if they were hardenable? The ones I found are similar in shape but have a light bow in them.
I am pretty sure they are not, but I am also not sure which pieces you are seeing
Black Bear Forge I'm talking about the steel bars looks like about 3"x3/8" x12" long with a hole in the square end and a rounded edge on the other.
The two sitting side by side with the piece marked 5160 on top are old lawn mower blades from a small brush mower
Black Bear Forge ahhh bush hog blades. Ok I guess I'll have to try and heat treat em.. see if they get hard. Thanks again sir!
I love your old Chevy!!! What year is it?
74
Please oh please help me out with ideas for that hollow drill rod! I have a bit of it and learned that it can be O1, W1, or A1. The only use I can think of is maybe a monkey tool. Any other ideas?
Monkey tools are certainly the obvious choice. Perhaps in small segments it could be used for heading tools or bolster plates. For projects it might make a pipe tomahawk. but you would need to forge weld the blade.
John, what shop do you go to around you to pick up your tool steels? Or do you order online and pay the shipping?
Sounds like another good video topic. Mostly I buy online
So if it is mined in China, ingots of pure iron shipped here,, melted and mixed in the USA, extruded in the USA when you add your touchmark, can you legitimately stamp it with made in USA?
a 20 foot 1/2" Square bar is $20 at my steel yard. feels bad
i've thrown out an embarrassing amount of useful materials doing construction. if you're trying to do blacksmithing on the cheap, raiding construction site dumpsters is a good call (provided you have permission/it is legal)
Hey John thanks for all the info. Do you know anything about AR? My father in law let me have about 8" to mess with. He said it's really hard and very expensive.
Kevin Hansen ar steels are a high impact heavy wear steel. The shooting community uses alot of ar500 for target shooting. We use that steel to line our coal chutes at work. Last along time. As far as forging with it in not sure but I'm curious to see if anyone here has tried to used it for anything forging
Mike Roberts thank you. I've never heard of it. I can give it a try. I don't want to mess it up.
Extremely tough stuff to work. Used for things like plow blades so they don't wear out very fast. I can't imagine trying to forge the stuff. but it would probably make great tools
Hello sir, do you know anything about anthracite coal from tractor supply? It is the only coal I can get but the review are mixed about its quality. Any info would be great.
D Day Invader
Anthricite coal from Tsc will work just fine as long as you attend to IT'S needs. Those that don't do well with it try to treat/use it like Bituminous coal.
D day is right. He didn’t mention that it’s not fun to light.
@ D DAY - I used TSC anthracite coal in my coal forge for 2 years. I would get a small pile of hardwood lump charcoal lit with a map torch, then pile the anthracite on top. Anthracite needs constant considerable air flow. My blower was a scavenged HW heater exhaust blower motor wired with a dimmer. Check it out on my channel. Anthracite does not coke up like soft coal and does spark and sputter a lot. But it works. No more coal for me, I use gas forges now. PS use the nut size. The pea size will only clog up your grate.
Now you said not to really use rebar. What if you are a very green beginner and just need practice heating and beating? Is it bad then? Just asking for a friend. LOL
If it's what you have then you might as well use it. But it does forge differently than mild steel, so you will be learning about steel movement that will be different when you go to mild steel.
Black Bear Forge thank you sir
I was at a steel shop and was going to cut our own steel we ended up having to leave the property to do so which was more then a hassle
So far I have been lucky. If it comes to that I will probably build a rack for the truck. In the quantities I buy the cut charge can really add up.
Black Bear Forge yea for sure I have a trailer now I’m up In North Dakota I have a trailer for behind the pickup now another thing I ran in to is a different metal shop told me he couldn’t get the smaller square stock and other stock I needed any more which means he started catering strictly to the oilfield so I found a third metal shop which was a fabrication shop he said he actually started selling metal to people in addition to his fabrication because of oilfield dedicated shops
Your cat 🙀 wants attention!
BTW why does iron loose it's magnetic property when it is at critical mass? Id love to hear from you on this! Thanks
The term is critical heat and it actually looses magnetism bellow critical heat. You would need someone with a stronger scientific background to explain the exact reason.
Just what is mild steel, our local steel company carries steel for construction, is the steel at tractor supply considered mild steel, I'm still learning.
construction steel is generally what blacksmiths refer to as mild steel. That means it is to low in carbon to be hardened. Common structural steel is A36 and cold rolled is 1018. Bot are ideal for most forging projects.
@@BlackBearForge thanks, good feed back, need all the help I can get 👍
Been struggling with what grades of steel to buy. There are so many options. Every place i ask wants to know grade i need and i honestly don't know as a beginner. Mild steel is vage to most sellers I have talked to.
Are those giant saw blade at 1:00
Yes they are. They came from a saw mill in the Pacific Northwest. They make good thin bladed knives.
My supplier still doesn’t charge me per cut... man am I glad I don’t have to pay for that!
I was spoiled in my early days when the first cut was always free. They would even cut to an exact length and just in half.
I hope Midwest gave you a discount for the advertising you are doing for them.
I doubt they will ever know. There are so few blacksmiths in the immediate area that would use Midwest I doubt it will even get them one sale. But if they wanted to give me a discount, who would be to say no😜