I am not going to lie... I have a bit of a weakness for files, As a woodworker, carver and now blacksmith, I have been collecting files for 25 years. I love Nicholson files, and just got an amazing deal, I bought 28 old/new Nicholson files for $25cdn for all of them "Made in U.S.A" from a gent that was retiring from an old sawmill here in Canada. I will guard them with my life!!! lol
As an amateur blacksmith, this is one of the most informative channels I've come across. I've devoured your material and always come across something new that I haven't considered before!
Very interesting video, glad to hear about them touching each other as that’s how I store mine, I will be changing that next time I’m in the shop! Thank you!
Thanks for the video, you informed me on what I was looking for (information). I also collect as many old tools as I can find them. Back when military bases were being "reorganized" they were selling tools by the pound! 90% of those tools were made during and after WW2 on up through the 60s and all extremely high quality even in used condition by todays standard. Some of my WW2 made tools have little to no markings on them, a 9/16 wrench would have the manufacturer name and nothing else. I understand the tools were being made for the factories & government as fast and simply as possible. The manufacturer names are many I suppose there were many contractors and subcontractors in those days but all these tools still work fine. FYI the file sets all came with several wooden handles that had metal jaws with twist tightening and a great file card that on the back side had heavy canvas including a space to hold a rig tipped pick in the handle.
great video. i’m a file lover and make knives with hand tools only, so files are a main tool for my hobby. i actually use files as stock for making knives. but most of my best files i have found at yard sales and usually pay about 25 cents a piece. i found the best way to clean them is with a flattened piece of copper tubing- rubbing the edge with the tooth profile, which tends to conform to the tooth profile. thanks for posting!! please realize what a fantastic teacher and motivator you have been for many. i’m sure God is saving a special place for you sir for all you do!! kindest regards-scott
I got a lot of old files at a family operated estate sale. I don't know exactly, maybe 50 old files. I bought some things during the sale and then was welcomed back after it was over to take anything for free. It was helping clear out the house to be sold at that point. Sorry now to say the files were stacked on top of each other in a couple bins/wooden boxes and I didn't change that when I stored them in my shop. I'll work on better storage for them now. I know I have a free tool roll around to get me started. Thank you for the education!!!
Just watched your file vid, we have the same problem in Australia, a good file brand i have found is Pferd they make excellent files , keep the content flowing good work
There is paper impregnated with corrosion-resisting chemicals that is about as heavy as butcher paper and will prevent rusting, just look up anti-rust paper or something. Very handy
I was watching as you rang your small bell. It appears to be made out of heavy material so will not vibrate Also a large bell chamber made out of light sheet iron or brass sheeting folded and riveted are what I have used on a belled horse in the mountains. A bell 4 to 5 inches tall 3 to 4 wide one way and 2 to 3 the other way is a popular size. Either rectangular or round makes no difference as long as the bell chamber is open and thin enough to vibrate when the clapper impacts the very bottom edge of the bell. 8:35
Just watched this last night and for some reason went to a flea market today. Guy had a bucket of files all wrapped in wax paper. Ended up with 30 good condition to new assorted files. several USA Nicholson, Simonds, Heller, Erizo, Delta and some stamped Germany. Most were long heavy files bastard, 1/2 round and round and a couple beveled like a knife withy a lions head stamped not sure what brand they are. Oh yeah $30 for the bucket 30 great ones and 10 junk.
Excellent presentation! Thank you for your time, help, and content! Been a subscriber for awhile, you are very much like my dearly departed father. No B S, straight ahead, get out of the way he had stuff to do! I have tried to emulate his style and attitudes as best as can, we forged tools, knives, cabinet handles, fireplace tongs, squirrel cookers, tripods, twisted bottle openers, and dozens of other fn things for friends and family. We rarely sold as we mostly have away. We made appt of friends and enjoyed each other's company. Thank you for sharing your time, thoughts, experience, and opinions! God bless you Sirl
Some great tips John. And like a file, a good knife should be stored properly. If it's just thrown in a drawer with a bunch of other knives or things, it's not going to stay sharp for very long. To be totally honest, I did not know that one could buy file handles. I thought they had to be ordered with or made. Thank you for sharing.
John. Thanks good info. Couple of tricks that really work if you start with a good quality file. I put my files in vinegar, especially when I buy old used files. Couple of days to a week will really clean them out and make them cut. I own a file card but don't use it much. A piece of copper plumbing pipe smashed flat run in the same direction as the cutting teeth will clean a file faster then then card will. Thanks for doing what you do. I learn when I watch your videos.
I can highly recommend F.Dick and Pferd files. They are afaik made in Germany. Very nice quality, the only thing we use in the tool shop where i work. I mainly have east german NOS ones, they are also very good, i think the plant was bought by Pferd.
Thanks very much for illuminating a truly complicated, confusing, and arcane part of tooling. This is the best and most comprehensive treatment of them I've ever heard or read. It's a great thing when an avid tool collector is a hard working and frequent user. I think you should probably do tapes like this sparingly. They don't the emotional kick of hot steel beaten with hammers, but when you do them, you do them well.
Thank you have a good Christmas ! I just bought the Swiss files double cut ! I use them for jewelry they are the standard and German . I use PVC pipes in different sizes with paper or foam so they don't rattle in the draw or case .
One thing I was taught in mechanics school was to use a small square of aluminum to clean fine files. You would clean the file by pushing the aluminum parallel to the teeth. This would help dislodge stubborn metal filings caught in the file teeth. One thing more, I think it would be helpful if you discussed the different filing techniques: cross, straight and draw filing. Great video. Always enjoy the information and instruction you offer to help us become better blacksmiths.
Im glad you mentioned handles for files; because most files don't come with handles. Paradoxically, it seems that.GOOD files never come with handles, and if you do find a file that comes with a handle, it's nearly guaranteed to be a cheap piece of junk. The last time I was looking for places to buy Grobet files, i stumbled upon MSC Direct. I don't know anything about them, except that they do have a store a couple hours away from me. You can also order from them online.
Look up SEP tools. They technically cater to jewelers but they stock a lot of equipment that transcends several industries and they have a catalog and a website. The man that owns it is named Gabby and you definitely want to ask for him your first time.
Thank you so much for all this helpful info. I really learned a LOT from this video! I’m saving this video for later reference when shopping for files.
Great video. Thanks for sharing. Just some new info- Jason over at Fireball Tool did tests on the direction a file cuts the best. He made an automatic jig and ran the course with each file (thousands of strokes each). I believe he used pferd files. They cut in both directions equally, and after thousands of strokes, there weren't any visible differences in wear from the forward-only cut files and the ones used in both directions. The reverse only files cut equally as well as the forward only ones. Can't really argue with his results. It's either a myth or file design has changed over the years
Thanks for the video, John. After seeing this video I decided to do a search on Swiss files. On the site “Otto Frei” , which mainly sales of Quality Jewelry Supplies, Jewelry tools, etc., I found Glardon-Vallorbe Precision Files, which according to the site, are swiss made. The longest file size for #00 flat file was 12”. However, what I found interesting was the following statement under “Details/See more”, for “Glardon-Vallorbe Flat Hand Precision Files - LP1163: “: “Glardon-Vallorbe Swiss Made Precision Files deliver superior performance on all metals. Simply the best you can buy! Formerly distributed by Grobet USA under the brand name Grobet Swiss.”
Well it looks like I have another project John. I currently have 2 drawers full of files. My jewelers files and diamond files are in cases but all the others are just jammed in the drawers. I know I have a couple of old canvas file cases somewhere. (finding them may take some time) But I definately will try and seperate them all. Learned something new today. As always, Thank you!
Very good overview, John. I switched to Grobet files a long time ago -- but I wasn't aware their current production has been moved to China. Groan... I have good success chemically sharpening my old files with a 10% phosphoric acid solution. Klean-Strip Phosphoric Prep & Etch is, according to the MSDS, about 40% phosphoric acid, so I dilute that 1:3. I immerse the files, in a glass container, hitting them periodically with a toothbrush. You have to watch them closely, because it's easy to over etch. Gets rid of rust, etches the edges back to sharpness, and leaves a rust resistant iron phosphate layer. Clyde
You want to stay away from really potent inorganic acids like sulfuric, nitric and hydrochloric (muriatic) acids. Firstly because of health and handling issues, secondly because they are so corrosive even at relatively high dilutions. (My experiments with hydrochloric acid didn't end well...) Organic acids such as citric and acetic (at high enough concentration) acids can be used for rust removal, but I've not tried to use them for file sharpening. I have used citric acid for removing rust from the old handplanes I restore, but even there I prefer the phosphoric acid for the protective phosphotized layer it leaves. And, you can find the Klean-Strip at any big box store. Clyde
Not sure if you mention it in the video, but a good way to store files is cutting a long, narrow, horizontal channel in a board and storing files by putting the tip in the channel. They cam and hold themselves and are more easily grabbed than files stored vertically. I met Bob Menard yesterday and I saw that he stores his files like this. I'll be copying it for my shop
Many thanks for that video! I got curious. On the Dick web page (can not post link here as YT seems to delete comment then) you read under history that they do not produce files anymore but they let them produce by Usines Métallurgiques de Vallorbe SA. If you search Vallorbe files Switzerland you will find the company. They state which brands they have and there is a webshop where you see prices. They have two price lines. The better one is roughly 15 dollars for a 200 mm file. They also have Valtitan files which are 72 (!) Rockwell. They seem to be one of the few remaining producers of quality files in Europe. I reached out to them with some questions RE saw files (watched the videos of Paul Sellers on saw sharpening). They came back quickly, nice, and so I ordered a couple of files. Can not judge the long term quality as not using them very often. Paul Sellers reviewed Bahco made in Portugal I think. He said they are good, I have one bastard file of these and it is fine however aslso using not on a daily basis.
wiltshire used to be the "name " file here in Australia, not even sure if they are still made, but certainly not in the shops locally. I have got most of my files second hand, and they are better than what you can get new.
Mr. John, I use Pferd files myself, have used them for years. They are relatively inexpensive and are still made in Germany. I usually get mine from MSC but I think you can get some from Amazon.
Great video. I learned a lot. Not everyone knows how to use, kinds of and differences in tools. I like the basic tool and basic knowledge videos. Thank you.
We The Few ... are now getting into files for woodworking and metal forming ... We appreciate your sharing with us all your knowledge not many are doing this. We will follow and comment and question. The color tape we saw is that for IDing the type? Mucho Thanks, .... OORAH!!
F. Dick are great files! You should try those. Glardon Vallorbe is (i think) one of the best file brands in the world by now, swiss made, and stay sharp for a long long time. Those aren't cheap I can tell you.
You did it again. Another good one John. Thx for sharing that info. I been looking for new old stock files for a wile now. The only place was eBay and you really don’t no what you are buying. Where I live we have a flea market that sells lots of old tools. Been looking to go all summer but just been too busy. Hopefully soon thx again ...Paul
Thank you for the best information on files and care of them thank you. You can check flea markets I have found a lot of files there that are still in working order.
You can also use charcoal for this. 'Pinning' is the fancy word jewellers use for 'clogging up'. Especially useful on soft metals such as aluminium or copper. I was always told to use a file card parrallel to the direction the teeth.
Just like the Oregon brand chainsaw files. The new China made ones will only sharpen the chain once. The files used to last me a couple years. Now it not worth the cost to sharpen the chains
My agreement comes with your dragging on return strokes... which can only remove stuck filings. A burr on the file is not kosher. A short bristle brass brush is good... unless wire guage of it is mismatched to the files pitch.
Best files I have are Mac tools USA made probably rebranded, very nice. I did just order some PFERD. The Nicholson Brazilian files are ok, the Snap On are overpriced for what their worth and aren't that sharp. Mac does not make their files in the USA anymore and good files are getting scarce.
Pretty sad what quality has turned into. I watched my dad file the saw at our sawmill for a lot of years at least twice a day with Simmonds files. I can hear the rhythm of the stroke now.
Good info John. I was wondering; with all the Japanese saws and wood planes being introduced in the US. Do you know of any Japanese files that files on the "pull" stroke? Not that I want any, just curious. Thanks.
I love FILES !! ITS NOT JUST A TOOL ... ITS A PRECISION INSTRUMENT. SAD THAT MEN BUILT ORBITAL SANDERS AND GRINDERS. Cutting Discs ... OK,... understood. Grinding Wheels... AYE. I guess I might be biased to woodwork... but my LOVE for machines and tools is HUGELY DIVERSE.
Finally got around to watching this. Great video. Very informative! I was hoping you had a good source for new files. Have you ever tried sharpening files?
I always thought that a bastard cut file had a second cut so I came out to my shop and looked at my files and most of them are Nicholson’s all made in the USA and the flat bastard cut and the half round bastard cut have two separate lines of teeth which I thought was the most aggressive then the only coarse single cut that I have was a mill bastard which is coarse but not as coarse as the regular bastard file with two cuts
The quality issue intrigued me. There is a review issued 25.08.2017 by the magazine “selbst” (a DIY magazine). When entering “test feilen selbst” you should get it (it is a German pdf but you should be able to understand the quality indicated by stars). In the 80s a German institute (VPA) set a standard for a good file - it should last at least 7500 file strokes. The ones tested only made 4000 maximum. Most much less. Also the amount abraded per stroke was poor compared to the 80s. Quality overall was sobering is their conclusion. They had some 20 files tested (different shapes too) e.g. Dick, Pferd, Hase, Nicolson and some discounter ones, Prices between 1-20 Euro. The Obi brand, a Dick and a Pferd got a good and satisfactory. Interestingly, the expensive Dick one (21 Euro) was worse than the 6 Euro Dick. The Lux (Obi brand) 6 Euro fared well. So price also not always a valid indicator. I mean heck. Is science needed to buy a decent file? Why is so much crap produced?
@@BlackBearForge Still, you could make one for fun and for us. Check this guy - he made it from a mild steel by case hardening. The camera work is impressive too. I think you'll like to see it if nothing else ua-cam.com/video/SOw9WqMOHjA/v-deo.html
The trouble with garage sale files around here is that they are usually well worn and have been thrown in a box with other files, which really wears them out quickly
@@BlackBearForge I did not know that about them rubbing together. It makes sense though. I learned a lot about files from this video. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos. I've tried it myself it takes SO much time to set up cameras when you're trying to get something done. Much appreciated!
Try buying a quality flat bastard from Amazon with zero taper and over 10”…disappointing. Most are 8” second cut with a double cut tooth arrangement…not what I wanted. I ended up settling for a make called Bahco in 10” parallel form featuring what they termed an Oberg cut, idk what that means! It does feel aggressive and has a comfortable handle tho’. It better be good at over 30 bucks (27 GBP).
You didn’t talk about using a farrier’s rasp for hot work. I’m wondering if you do that. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I hang my head in shame thinking about my drawer filled with files....
I am not going to lie... I have a bit of a weakness for files, As a woodworker, carver and now blacksmith, I have been collecting files for 25 years. I love Nicholson files, and just got an amazing deal, I bought 28 old/new Nicholson files for $25cdn for all of them "Made in U.S.A" from a gent that was retiring from an old sawmill here in Canada. I will guard them with my life!!! lol
As an amateur blacksmith, this is one of the most informative channels I've come across. I've devoured your material and always come across something new that I haven't considered before!
how the hell this guy don't have more view he is so helpfull
thx alot man
I can vouch for Grobet files made in Italy. I will say they are ever BETTER than the swiss made Grobet. Best I have ever seen.
Files 101, Everything you wanted to know about files, but were afraid to ask. Thanks John
Very interesting video, glad to hear about them touching each other as that’s how I store mine, I will be changing that next time I’m in the shop! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
@@BlackBearForge yessir! Thank you
Thanks for the video, you informed me on what I was looking for (information). I also collect as many old tools as I can find them. Back when military bases were being "reorganized" they were selling tools by the pound!
90% of those tools were made during and after WW2 on up through the 60s and all extremely high quality even in used condition by todays standard. Some of my WW2 made tools have little to no markings on them, a 9/16 wrench would have the manufacturer name and nothing else. I understand the tools were being made for the factories & government as fast and simply as possible. The manufacturer names are many I suppose there were many contractors and subcontractors in those days but all these tools still work fine. FYI the file sets all came with several wooden handles that had metal jaws with twist tightening and a great file card that on the back side had heavy canvas including a space to hold a rig tipped pick in the handle.
great video. i’m a file lover and make knives with hand tools only, so files are a main tool for my hobby. i actually use files as stock for making knives. but most of my best files i have found at yard sales and usually pay about 25 cents a piece. i found the best way to clean them is with a flattened piece of copper tubing- rubbing the edge with the tooth profile, which tends to conform to the tooth profile. thanks for posting!! please realize what a fantastic teacher and motivator you have been for many. i’m sure God is saving a special place for you sir for all you do!!
kindest regards-scott
I got a lot of old files at a family operated estate sale. I don't know exactly, maybe 50 old files. I bought some things during the sale and then was welcomed back after it was over to take anything for free. It was helping clear out the house to be sold at that point. Sorry now to say the files were stacked on top of each other in a couple bins/wooden boxes and I didn't change that when I stored them in my shop. I'll work on better storage for them now. I know I have a free tool roll around to get me started. Thank you for the education!!!
File brush also is great for bringing velcro back to life when clogged with lint.
Grand fathers lumber yard very old 1900 had some very old Nicholson files they were great lasted a long time //sad now made some where else
Just found a very old nicholson and arcade file at the local antique store, both in great condition
Just watched your file vid, we have the same problem in Australia, a good file brand i have found is Pferd they make excellent files , keep the content flowing good work
Real life ron swanson lol. Excellent video thank you very much.
Diamond files are my favorite files for hardened steel
Yes...
You ARE educating and inspiring. .......
Thankyou
Jim
Utrecht
The Netherlands
I have some Pferd files made in Germany. They seem excellent but I have to put more time on them to say for sure.
There is paper impregnated with corrosion-resisting chemicals that is about as heavy as butcher paper and will prevent rusting, just look up anti-rust paper or something. Very handy
I'm a file junkie, I've got more types of files than any one man should ever own.
Me too !
Preston Klima me too. it’s like a disease. i get most of mine at yard sales. i probably have upwards of 500. kindest regards from massachusetts !!
scott peitavino ya, Massachusetts. My home town!
I was watching as you rang your small bell. It appears to be made out of heavy material so will not vibrate
Also a large bell chamber made out of light sheet iron or brass sheeting folded and riveted are what I have used on a belled horse in the mountains. A bell 4 to 5 inches tall 3 to 4 wide one way and 2 to 3 the other way is a popular size. Either rectangular or round makes no difference as long as the bell chamber is open and thin enough to vibrate when the clapper impacts the very bottom edge of the bell. 8:35
I lucked out. I bought 3 boxes of n.o.s. Nicholson 16" pipeliner files at an estate sale. And they are the the good made in USA Nicholson files.
I try to keep my eyes open for them.
Any of them for sale ?
Just watched this last night and for some reason went to a flea market today. Guy had a bucket of files all wrapped in wax paper. Ended up with 30 good condition to new assorted files. several USA Nicholson, Simonds, Heller, Erizo, Delta and some stamped Germany. Most were long heavy files bastard, 1/2 round and round and a couple beveled like a knife withy a lions head stamped not sure what brand they are. Oh yeah $30 for the bucket 30 great ones and 10 junk.
Excellent presentation! Thank you for your time, help, and content! Been a subscriber for awhile, you are very much like my dearly departed father. No B S, straight ahead, get out of the way he had stuff to do! I have tried to emulate his style and attitudes as best as can, we forged tools, knives, cabinet handles, fireplace tongs, squirrel cookers, tripods, twisted bottle openers, and dozens of other fn things for friends and family. We rarely sold as we mostly have away. We made appt of friends and enjoyed each other's company. Thank you for sharing your time, thoughts, experience, and opinions! God bless you Sirl
Some great tips John. And like a file, a good knife should be stored properly. If it's just thrown in a drawer with a bunch of other knives or things, it's not going to stay sharp for very long. To be totally honest, I did not know that one could buy file handles. I thought they had to be ordered with or made. Thank you for sharing.
John. Thanks good info. Couple of tricks that really work if you start with a good quality file. I put my files in vinegar, especially when I buy old used files. Couple of days to a week will really clean them out and make them cut. I own a file card but don't use it much. A piece of copper plumbing pipe smashed flat run in the same direction as the cutting teeth will clean a file faster then then card will. Thanks for doing what you do. I learn when I watch your videos.
I’ve been searching for awhile for just this information and education! Thank you so very much!
I can highly recommend F.Dick and Pferd files. They are afaik made in Germany. Very nice quality, the only thing we use in the tool shop where i work. I mainly have east german NOS ones, they are also very good, i think the plant was bought by Pferd.
Thanks
Thanks very much for illuminating a truly complicated, confusing, and arcane part of tooling. This is the best and most comprehensive treatment of them I've ever heard or read. It's a great thing when an avid tool collector is a hard working and frequent user. I think you should probably do tapes like this sparingly. They don't the emotional kick of hot steel beaten with hammers, but when you do them, you do them well.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Thank you have a good Christmas ! I just bought the Swiss files double cut ! I use them for jewelry they are the standard and German . I use PVC pipes in different sizes with paper or foam so they don't rattle in the draw or case .
Making files is the hard part.
One thing I was taught in mechanics school was to use a small square of aluminum to clean fine files. You would clean the file by pushing the aluminum parallel to the teeth. This would help dislodge stubborn metal filings caught in the file teeth.
One thing more, I think it would be helpful if you discussed the different filing techniques: cross, straight and draw filing.
Great video. Always enjoy the information and instruction you offer to help us become better blacksmiths.
Thank you for the in depth discussion on files.
I am in Canada and the Home Depots here sell the Nicholson files. The flea markets sell the old ones fairly cheap but most have been used of course.
I love using golf balls for file handles. Just make sure ya dont accidentally get the fluid core balls...lol
Great idea !
I like that!
I have several blue or white big handles for rasps I used when I was shoeing thank you for sharing this buddy
I have a drawer full of every kind of file I can think of. I call then my machine shop. Nice tutorial today good sir !
Great video, I'm not a blacksmith at all.thank for showing me how to use a file, I have been using them wrong all this years . THANKS A LOT.
Im glad you mentioned handles for files; because most files don't come with handles. Paradoxically, it seems that.GOOD files never come with handles, and if you do find a file that comes with a handle, it's nearly guaranteed to be a cheap piece of junk.
The last time I was looking for places to buy Grobet files, i stumbled upon MSC Direct. I don't know anything about them, except that they do have a store a couple hours away from me. You can also order from them online.
Look up SEP tools. They technically cater to jewelers but they stock a lot of equipment that transcends several industries and they have a catalog and a website. The man that owns it is named Gabby and you definitely want to ask for him your first time.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!
Thank you so much for all this helpful info. I really learned a LOT from this video!
I’m saving this video for later reference when shopping for files.
Great video. Thanks for sharing. Just some new info- Jason over at Fireball Tool did tests on the direction a file cuts the best. He made an automatic jig and ran the course with each file (thousands of strokes each). I believe he used pferd files. They cut in both directions equally, and after thousands of strokes, there weren't any visible differences in wear from the forward-only cut files and the ones used in both directions. The reverse only files cut equally as well as the forward only ones. Can't really argue with his results. It's either a myth or file design has changed over the years
I love your content. I’ve been watching several videos every day.
Wow, thanks!
Have had good results with Swedish files, bahco oberg comes to mind.
Thanks for the video, John. After seeing this video I decided to do a search on Swiss files. On the site “Otto Frei” , which mainly sales of Quality Jewelry Supplies, Jewelry tools, etc., I found Glardon-Vallorbe Precision Files, which according to the site, are swiss made. The longest file size for #00 flat file was 12”. However, what I found interesting was the following statement under “Details/See more”, for “Glardon-Vallorbe Flat Hand Precision Files - LP1163: “:
“Glardon-Vallorbe Swiss Made Precision Files deliver superior performance on all metals. Simply the best you can buy! Formerly distributed by Grobet USA under the brand name Grobet Swiss.”
great information
thanks John. More Awesome advice!
Learned lots. Thanks
Well it looks like I have another project John. I currently have 2 drawers full of files. My jewelers files and diamond files are in cases but all the others are just jammed in the drawers. I know I have a couple of old canvas file cases somewhere. (finding them may take some time) But I definately will try and seperate them all. Learned something new today. As always, Thank you!
I'm glad it helped out. But sorry it gave you extra homework 😉
I need to do the same with mine. 50 yrs of filing and never considered them wearing against ea other.
Very good overview, John. I switched to Grobet files a long time ago -- but I wasn't aware their current production has been moved to China. Groan... I have good success chemically sharpening my old files with a 10% phosphoric acid solution. Klean-Strip Phosphoric Prep & Etch is, according to the MSDS, about 40% phosphoric acid, so I dilute that 1:3. I immerse the files, in a glass container, hitting them periodically with a toothbrush. You have to watch them closely, because it's easy to over etch. Gets rid of rust, etches the edges back to sharpness, and leaves a rust resistant iron phosphate layer. Clyde
Is the type of acid important? or can they be done in any acid solution?
You want to stay away from really potent inorganic acids like sulfuric, nitric and hydrochloric (muriatic) acids. Firstly because of health and handling issues, secondly because they are so corrosive even at relatively high dilutions. (My experiments with hydrochloric acid didn't end well...) Organic acids such as citric and acetic (at high enough concentration) acids can be used for rust removal, but I've not tried to use them for file sharpening. I have used citric acid for removing rust from the old handplanes I restore, but even there I prefer the phosphoric acid for the protective phosphotized layer it leaves. And, you can find the Klean-Strip at any big box store. Clyde
Not sure if you mention it in the video, but a good way to store files is cutting a long, narrow, horizontal channel in a board and storing files by putting the tip in the channel. They cam and hold themselves and are more easily grabbed than files stored vertically. I met Bob Menard yesterday and I saw that he stores his files like this. I'll be copying it for my shop
I haven't seen that approach, great idea.
Excellent video, just in time to set up my shop. Thank You!
Many thanks for that video! I got curious. On the Dick web page (can not post link here as YT seems to delete comment then) you read under history that they do not produce files anymore but they let them produce by Usines Métallurgiques de Vallorbe SA. If you search Vallorbe files Switzerland you will find the company. They state which brands they have and there is a webshop where you see prices. They have two price lines. The better one is roughly 15 dollars for a 200 mm file. They also have Valtitan files which are 72 (!) Rockwell. They seem to be one of the few remaining producers of quality files in Europe. I reached out to them with some questions RE saw files (watched the videos of Paul Sellers on saw sharpening). They came back quickly, nice, and so I ordered a couple of files. Can not judge the long term quality as not using them very often.
Paul Sellers reviewed Bahco made in Portugal I think. He said they are good, I have one bastard file of these and it is fine however aslso using not on a daily basis.
Great vid
Thank you for making this video.
Glad it helped
wiltshire used to be the "name " file here in Australia, not even sure if they are still made, but certainly not in the shops locally. I have got most of my files second hand, and they are better than what you can get new.
thanks John! good information!
Thank you sir. Good info.
Mr. John, I use Pferd files myself, have used them for years. They are relatively inexpensive and are still made in Germany. I usually get mine from MSC but I think you can get some from Amazon.
Great video. I learned a lot. Not everyone knows how to use, kinds of and differences in tools. I like the basic tool and basic knowledge videos. Thank you.
thank you for sharing your expertise.
Thank you for the very informative video on files.
We The Few ... are now getting into files for woodworking and metal forming ... We appreciate your sharing with us all your knowledge not many are doing this. We will follow and comment and question. The color tape we saw is that for IDing the type? Mucho Thanks, .... OORAH!!
F. Dick are great files! You should try those. Glardon Vallorbe is (i think) one of the best file brands in the world by now, swiss made, and stay sharp for a long long time. Those aren't cheap I can tell you.
You did it again. Another good one John. Thx for sharing that info. I been looking for new old stock files for a wile now. The only place was eBay and you really don’t no what you are buying. Where I live we have a flea market that sells lots of old tools. Been looking to go all summer but just been too busy. Hopefully soon thx again ...Paul
thank you
Great information and video. Thank you for sharing.
bought local flee market bulk packaged flat file from India 10 , 12 , 14 coarse med fine 9 files $30 taxes in normally $ 5 each work great very happy
Thank you for the best information on files and care of them thank you. You can check flea markets I have found a lot of files there that are still in working order.
The file is a unique tool. It is the only tool that can reproduce itself. With a file you can cut a chisel. With that chisel you can cut another file.
Great information, thank you for sharing your knowledge on this topic.
Another Great Video Bear! New Subscriber here. Thanks for the awesome video! aloha
A really good video! Thanks for making and explain.
Ive purchased some files made in China and they've actually lasted a while
I soaked some of my older files in vinegar for 24 hours and it brought them back to life.
Thats good to know
Great informative video thanks
I purchased a Nicholson 6 in triangular file made in India. Same issue. It came bent and it got worst as I used it. Very soft.
Great video!
Great video. I find rubbing chalk for a chalk board on your files prevent them from clogging up.
You can also use charcoal for this. 'Pinning' is the fancy word jewellers use for 'clogging up'. Especially useful on soft metals such as aluminium or copper. I was always told to use a file card parrallel to the direction the teeth.
Just like the Oregon brand chainsaw files. The new China made ones will only sharpen the chain once. The files used to last me a couple years. Now it not worth the cost to sharpen the chains
I prefer the screw on handles
LOL, I snapped a Nicholson file in half a few days ago. Now I know why.
My agreement comes with your dragging on return strokes...
which can only remove stuck filings.
A burr on the file is not kosher.
A short bristle brass brush is good... unless wire guage of it is mismatched to the files pitch.
Best files I have are Mac tools USA made probably rebranded, very nice. I did just order some PFERD. The Nicholson Brazilian files are ok, the Snap On are overpriced for what their worth and aren't that sharp. Mac does not make their files in the USA anymore and good files are getting scarce.
Pretty sad what quality has turned into. I watched my dad file the saw at our sawmill for a lot of years at least twice a day with Simmonds files. I can hear the rhythm of the stroke now.
Went to an ABANA hammer in and saw a file made. 1998 or so. Don't remember who. Thinking was A2 stock. Was a precise process
It would be tough to do.
Good info John. I was wondering; with all the Japanese saws and wood planes being introduced in the US. Do you know of any Japanese files that files on the "pull" stroke? Not that I want any, just curious. Thanks.
A!so saw a farriers rasp made into a cobra, same demo💆
John, can you do a follow-up video on rasps and hot rasping? I was hoping that would be part of this video. Thanks.
There was actually a link in the top corner at one point for the hot rasping video. ua-cam.com/video/DztKqyHQjLo/v-deo.html
I love FILES !!
ITS NOT JUST A TOOL ...
ITS A PRECISION INSTRUMENT.
SAD THAT MEN BUILT ORBITAL SANDERS AND GRINDERS.
Cutting Discs ... OK,... understood.
Grinding Wheels... AYE.
I guess I might be biased to woodwork...
but my LOVE for machines and tools is HUGELY DIVERSE.
People might know reality... if they have EVER run a 8500 rpm COMMERCIAL TABLESAW, and used a 3Tooth Ripping Blade on OAK & MAPLE.
I re-sharpen many of mine as I know how to do it with acid. It saddens me that Nicholson has gone so far downhill. They used to be the best.
Finally got around to watching this. Great video. Very informative! I was hoping you had a good source for new files. Have you ever tried sharpening files?
I have never tried to sharpen a file
I always thought that a bastard cut file had a second cut so I came out to my shop and looked at my files and most of them are Nicholson’s all made in the USA and the flat bastard cut and the half round bastard cut have two separate lines of teeth which I thought was the most aggressive then the only coarse single cut that I have was a mill bastard which is coarse but not as coarse as the regular bastard file with two cuts
The quality issue intrigued me. There is a review issued 25.08.2017 by the magazine “selbst” (a DIY magazine). When entering “test feilen selbst” you should get it (it is a German pdf but you should be able to understand the quality indicated by stars). In the 80s a German institute (VPA) set a standard for a good file - it should last at least 7500 file strokes. The ones tested only made 4000 maximum. Most much less. Also the amount abraded per stroke was poor compared to the 80s. Quality overall was sobering is their conclusion. They had some 20 files tested (different shapes too) e.g. Dick, Pferd, Hase, Nicolson and some discounter ones, Prices between 1-20 Euro. The Obi brand, a Dick and a Pferd got a good and satisfactory. Interestingly, the expensive Dick one (21 Euro) was worse than the 6 Euro Dick. The Lux (Obi brand) 6 Euro fared well. So price also not always a valid indicator. I mean heck. Is science needed to buy a decent file? Why is so much crap produced?
It's still a lot of money. You as a blacksmith should be able to make your own super file out of the best material.
Files have always been a specialty trade and not something the average blacksmith would attempt to make.
@@BlackBearForge Still, you could make one for fun and for us. Check this guy - he made it from a mild steel by case hardening. The camera work is impressive too. I think you'll like to see it if nothing else ua-cam.com/video/SOw9WqMOHjA/v-deo.html
Riogrande.com has the Frederick Dicke files you referred to.
Looks like they only have them in 6" lengths, i tend to use 10" - 14" files
Garage sales and estate sales if they happen in your area! I'm 28 now I'm hoarding old tools because they keep getting worse and worse!
The trouble with garage sale files around here is that they are usually well worn and have been thrown in a box with other files, which really wears them out quickly
@@BlackBearForge I did not know that about them rubbing together. It makes sense though. I learned a lot about files from this video. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos. I've tried it myself it takes SO much time to set up cameras when you're trying to get something done. Much appreciated!
Try buying a quality flat bastard from Amazon with zero taper and over 10”…disappointing. Most are 8” second cut with a double cut tooth arrangement…not what I wanted. I ended up settling for a make called Bahco in 10” parallel form featuring what they termed an Oberg cut, idk what that means! It does feel aggressive and has a comfortable handle tho’. It better be good at over 30 bucks (27 GBP).
F. Dick is distributed by Rio Grande in Albuquerque, NM
You didn’t talk about using a farrier’s rasp for hot work. I’m wondering if you do that. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I hang my head in shame thinking about my drawer filled with files....
I discussed hot rasping in this video ua-cam.com/video/DztKqyHQjLo/v-deo.html