Test hardening unknown steels - basic blacksmithing
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- Опубліковано 23 кві 2018
- When faced with an unknown steel. You need to determine whether it hardens in Air, Oil or water. Using salvaged or junkyard steels can have risks, so the more you can learn before hardening and tempering the better.
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www.piehtoolco.com/
www.centaurforge.com/
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Blacksmithing and related activities can be hazardous. These videos are not a substitute for competent professional instruction. Your safety is your sole responsibility. Always use appropriate safety equipment including eye and ear protection when working in the shop. Follow manufactures safety guidelines for the use of all equipment. In the event something shown in one of these videos seems unsafe, it is up to you to make the appropriate changes to protect yourself.
11:18 "I got two left-hand gloves."
This sums up my life.
i love this dude. He reminds me of my shop teacher back in high school. You can tell he loves to teach.
Brilliant video! This was a very valuable, well explained "lesson" I will remember for as long as I live.. Thanks and cheers from Outback Australia...
John, you've talked about all of this before. But to have all of this information in one place, with practical demonstration, is invaluable. Thanks
Ferrite to austenite. Rapidly cooling to martensite. Slowly cooling back to ferrite.
The air pocket around the heated steel in the quench is known as the Leidenfrost effect.
The back of the hand is a good point.
Thank you Mr John
I've been looking/thinking about this info👍👍
"the back of your hand" Great stuff, so simple. thank you.
I am not a blacksmith but like to learn new things, this was exceptionally good. I learned a few things do not know if I will ever use it but you cannot have enough knowledge.
You are a natural instructor sir. I've gone through a lot of hands on classes over the years in a career in gunsmithing and auto mechanics and now in hobby knifemaking and blacksmithing. You are one of the best as far as method and style of teaching as well as correctness and thorough information. Thanks and keep the great videos coming.
Your channel has the best demonstration and most understandable information of any on Blacksmithing :) Thank you for the time you spend in sharing your knowledge and experience ॐ
You are welcome
Thank you
What a great video.
I love all your videos & I know that I'm going to learn something with every new video that I watch. That being said, this video was one of my favorites. Some times it's the little things in life that make you smile. I laughed so hard at the two left hand gloves. Thanks!
Spot on with the touch response, with electricity it is no longer voluntary, and accidentally hitting live voltage with your fingers contracting away as opposed to gripping it can save your life. For the haters, when you work on multi or apartment properties that have been worked on for years by unknowns it is not uncommon to hit live power even after you have killed the main, killed the circuit, and tested the circuit. It's why I secure the power, test the power, and short the power. That way when you hit that one fixture/outlet/etc in the middle that some clown powered from the unit next door in the wall you don't get surprised.
This is a huge help!! I appreciate your videos 😊
I made bearings for jet engines we used nitrogen liquid and a boiler to heat it up,and then 8 hours in heat then oil not sure why,but jet engine bearings too
As usual awesome instructional video John, "you're not getting out of working that easy......" still chuckling!
This is a nice, informative channel. I'm just getting into bladesmithing with no formal training, so I have a lot to learn. Thanks for sharing
i found out i have a bunch of 1084 , this was still useful for confirming that though , it went solid when i quenched in oil , more springy than i was expecting too , very tough , just made my first knife with it too , and to my surprise and delight i managed to get a decently straight and appropriately shaped piece first time
John great basic informational video. I especially liked the good advice on PPE. Two left handed gloves is a common thing around the shop. Lol
This is the clearest and pratical video I've founded on the subject. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Great video again. On the topic of old used motor oil. Low carbon steel like 1018 or railroad spikes, so the old story goes world case harden if quenched near welding heat . I wouldn't use it on tool steel. But I've tried it and it seems to work... Somewhat. But I agree with you. That I think is last resort if you lack resources .
Thank you so much. This will be quite helpful for me. I haven't yet gotten into forging, and am trying to learn how to make use of random scrap, especially until I can afford to purchase proper metal.
Thanks John!
Good info John, love all of this, this is so helpful for us beginners.
Another great video John!! Thanks for the info!
Im glad to see this today, i just bought 2 junk pry bars from a thrift shop and i was wondering how to test them
Another great video John!!
That was interesting and informative. I learned something. Thank you.
I've been enjoying the information, glad I found your channel, keep up the good work. Have a great day.
Great video. This will be useful information for me. Thankyou :)
Thank you very much for the video. It will help me in the future.
I really enjoy your Videos, informative and entertaining.
Good informative video
Just started making knives from old saw blades, lawnmower blades and 1095 purchased online.
Very informative and interesting subject for a beginner or an experienced bladesmith . Thanks, I'm subscribing and watching more of your videos. Man I hope there is a bunch!
Thanks for watching!
Subscribed awesome content
AWSOME video
Thanks
Great
That was interesting, very good. That should cover all the bases.
I have hardened my truck leaf springs and have noticed it gets a lot harder in water and quenched over the critical temperature than quenching at just over non magnetic. It does crack more easily though. Thanks for the video John.
In most cases leaf spring tends to be oil hardening
Our recent machete we did in vegetable oil just to be on the safe side. I noticed it when doing small knifes. The steel seemed to harden in both oil and water. It just got a lot harder in water for some reason. Any ideas John.
Water is a faster and harsher quench. For oil hardening steels you will get the steel harder, but it will be more likely to crack or warp.
Yet another great instructional video. thanks. ALSO, i noticed your finger is still taped. How's that healing going?
The finger is much better, but I still use the compression wrap to help keep swelling down. They said it could be a year before it stops swelling entirely.
What about wrenches to make a knife? What would be best to quench it in?
Hi, need some guidance, I am making pickheads for digging and need to keep the hardness values between 400-600 on a wicker pyramid hardness machine. How do I controll the tempering to remain between certain values
i have seen some times they heat the oil or water with another hot rod or poker before the part that you are trying to harden, dose this make a big change or is that just a form of fine tuning ? thanks for the info be safe bill
Heating the oil or water is an important step. Oil thins out and moves around the material better if it is warm. So that improves the quench. There are ideal temperatures that should be looked up. But most blacksmiths get by with room temperature or slightly warmer.
Does the spark change with heat treatments?
It would be a good test, but I don't think there is a big change
I noticed tonight hardened vs annealed leaf spring hardened sparks had the same blooming but they were a few inches shorter than with the annealed a little late but thats my two cents
Would you use this steel for something like tongs? Or do those also need hardened/tempered?
I prefer mild steel for tongs, they really don't require hardening.
Hi, thank you for your video. I wanted to ask, have you tried Superquench or a sdium hyroxide solution to harden low carbon steels? What is your opinion on this matter? Of course, I understand that it would harden only the surface, but it would make useful that kind of steel for some purposes.
Super quench would be good for making quick simple tools from mild steel. But no very good for cutting tools. I don't use it only because I don't need more buckets sitting around in the shop
@@BlackBearForge I was thinking in tools for the guillotine, swages and so on. Thank your for your answer.
John, what kind of oil are you using for quenching? Thanks in advance!
Its a commercial quenching oil. But I don't recall the brand
If buying a commercial quench oil, how do you decide what quench time you need? For example, McMaster lists two oils, one with a 11 sec quench time, the other with a 28 sec quench time.
I haven't looked that closely into the specifics.
Hey John, love the videos I’ve learned a lot since I started watching them! I have a question about steel for hammers. Do you think s7 or s5 would be a good steel to make hammers out of? I’ve been using 4140 for my first few hammers and I’ve noticed very slight dings in the surface from hitting drifts and punches. Thanks for everything!
I think S7 / S5 would make a good hammer, but it would be a costly piece of steel and extremely hard to forge. I just dress the faces of my hammers if the get dinged, but I also make sure my punches and chisels are tempered softer so they don't leave dings so easily. The other option is to keep a soft hammer, just for using with punches and chisels that is OK to mark up.
Great thanks for the advice!
Some people purposely temper their hammers back more so that they get the dings rather than the anvil or the tool. Also, there is a chance that your heat treat was slightly off. You might get the slightly harder hammer you want by tempering less.
Thanks! Yeah I have heard of people wanting there hammers a little softer than their anvil but I think I didn’t do a good job heat treating I’ll give the 4140 another shot before I switch steels
Just use a driller's hammer, sometimes called an engineer's hammer, for striking your tools. They usually are in the 3 lb. range. Those are designed to hammer on struck tools like punches and chisels. Save your good forging hammers for forging!
What is this guy's opinion on *Forged in Fire* ?
Are you experianced with those hardness testing file sets.In that case it would be interesting to know your opinion about them.
I have never heard of them before
Black Bear Forge Well they are out there..
I am sure they do exist, it's just that I have no experience with them.
The Swede Check out abom79. He just used a set of those on a video 4/22/18 to test a bolt used on a metal shaper he is restoring. Very interesting.
Roy Wallace Will do.Tanks.
What about new natural or synthetic motor oil john?
That is a good question. I'm not sure whats actually in synthetic oil.
Black Bear Forge I don't either. Thanks for the prompt reply.
is there any non stainless steels that actually air quench?? never heard of any myself.
Yes, I suspect that most air quenching steels are non stainless. Anything with an "A" prefix is air hardening, like A2. I use a lot of S7 and H13, both are air hardening
What type of steel is good for an axe brother??
Any medium to high carbon will make a good axe. I like 5160, but have had good results with O1 and W1
I've never heard of brine being a harsher or faster quenchant compared to water. In "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" by Alexander Weygers, Brine is between water and oil in speed of quench.
I will have to look though his book again. But I am sure brine is a faster quench than clean water.
Brine will definitely give you the fastest quench.
I always did this wrong! I never used two left gloves! So that's why...
I'm glad I could shed some light on the issue
Best way to harden coil spring ?
Follow this procedure and do the tests. Some coil spring will oil harden and some water harden. But there may also be some that air hardens.
Please tell me who makes actual real files that are better than these Harbor Freight and other commonly available files. I believe my files are simply mill scale surface hardened junk. Is Pferd any better or that Portuguese manufacturer? I want machinist grade files that can be vinegar or acid cleaned without turning into 1014 steel. Who makes a real file out.of high quality steel?
So what is the differences in steels that harden in oil vs water
Why is there such a big difference in hardening in water or oil
Is it the rate of pulling the heat from the metal to the cooling material
Scientific studies have proven that hot goes to cold
When hot mercury is place near cold mercury the hot moves to the cold
I can't say exactly what the chemical difference is from one to the other. I just trust the engineers that design the different grades of steel when they say what medium to harden in. As far as the quench is concerned it is all about speed of quench. Water pulls the heat away faster than oil which is much faster than air.
You’re not getting outta work that easy!
Thank you