wow this is bizarre. I thought you were doing it pressure at first, and it was flipping heelflip, then I watched it like 10 times frame by frame, and I get what you're saying. Very strange
It's heelflip rotation, & his back foot caused the rotation, so this is in fact a pressure flip. A really really nice pressure flip, but it is in fact a pressure flip non he less.
@@seriousskateboarding9938 Wrong. It spins/rotates like a vertical frontside pop shuvit and thus can't be a Pressure flip as there is no flip and Pressure flips flip backside.
@@nedtempleton4873 ua-cam.com/video/pujzwNQDvRE/v-deo.html This is a muska flip bro. Muska flip has a kickflip rotation. Jonnys flip did a heelflip rotation. If you remove the vertical part of the equation, muska would be an inward kickflip aka hardflip. Jonny here did a outward pressure heel aka pressure varial heel, but it's verticle. If muska did a fs180 with his muska flip it's a front side flip. Jonnys flip + fs180 doesn't equate to a front side flip, at all. If Johnny added a fa 180 to this it would be a fs heel pressure flip. Analyse closely. The muska flip and Johnny's flip are spinning in the opposite direction.
I can't stand people passing off shuv it's as Impossibles. Just learn the trick! Trust if you take the time to learn a legit Impossible it feels so much better!
That clip of Muska crooked grinding that rail with the boombox on his shoulder is at my home town skatepark! Its in White Rock, B.C. Canada! 😎🤘 i was there that day... i was 9 years old lol.
obviously i don‘t understand the trick either. i‘m sorry for flipping it the wrong direction. this would be the muska way to varial/inward heel then. we‘ll cover the flip version in an upcoming illusion flip video. this truely is the most confusing thing to me 😂 title fits perfect 🙏🏼 see u guys soon ❤️🙌🏼
Hey Jonny, I understand what you are saying about the flip but to me a true hardflip is a front shove kick flip. Yes I prefer the 'real' way and i believe that is the only true hardflip. But its doesn't mean the flip in question isn't it's own trick. Look at muska fs flips and hardflips. They aren't frontside 180 kickflip. The reason for me is because the flip isn't generated from the front foot. It's an illusion. It's really a kind of pressure flip. Even when muska was big we had always called them illusion flips term I knew in the late 90s/early 2000s in Australia. Fs illusion/illusion hardflip. I dunno. I hope u understand what im tryna say. That's my opinion. We used the term a lot when doing them on transition. Maybe you can explain why it's not a type of pressure flip. I never really understood those in the sense that I couldn't do them but i could do most other flips. I always thought of the illusion 'rule' we had when doing nollie inward heel and hards because they roll over easy easy. Anyway. Love your skills man. Was always a fan of flips late shove and vice versa. You do them so well! Later.
I think the difference is in the front foot. Front shove has foot stay over board, muska flip makes board do a vertical shove while front foot goes behind the board (between your legs), and a hardflip causes the board to actually flip so the front foot is already behind the board from the flick (board between legs)
When I was a kid in the late 90's early 2000's nobody in my circle understood that hardflips were front shuv + kickflip, we all thought you HAD to do it vertical, in between your legs. The way the board flips naturally if you just hit the tail straight down basically.
yup. Because in 92/93 before the Rocco guys and (later in 95) Tom Penny showed us the way, everyone wanted to avoid the lame 90 degree-to-pivot-the-rest syndrome. If only we had Mullen or Giger to show us proper foot setup... where the hell were you Johnny? lol
I started skateboarding in 1997 or 1998. For me and my friends, a hardflip was vertical by definition. Otherwise it was a variation of the 180 flip. Nevertheless, everybody knew Muska for his signature ES shoes with the special compartment!
Same here. We had hardflips, illusion flips (what’s in this video) and muska flips (frontside 180 illusion flip also called a Chetty Thomas) and frontside flips (frontside 180 kickflips). All different.
For me it was alway like: The modern Hardflip is an Illusion Flip (because its not a real OG Hardflip) and the modern Front Flip is an Muska Flip. May be wrong but thats how it felt for me.
@@berrtusmaximus5212 yeah Chet Thomas did em more then Muska. We called it the German FS flip/hardflip. Because back in the days all German kids were trying to learn it like Muska. We tried the girl/chocolate way: extremely horizontal.
I would say it spun the heelflip way. When you do a regular hardflip, the graphic would be facing your front side and grip tape facing your back side as it's flipping. This video shows the grip tape facing your front and graphic facing your back. Maybe you invented the illusion of the muska flip?
I think this is more like an inward. I believe I have the proof to verify this. I have a Muska hardflip here & it flips the other way m.ua-cam.com/video/w-xHnZ_ZQ3Q/v-deo.html I also have a vertical inward heelflip here & Jonnys looks more like this m.ua-cam.com/video/miLYMJ4HKhU/v-deo.html
this is a perfect illustration of what some of us were trying to say to defend you in the hang ten video. The angle facing the way you travel shows it flipping but the side profile one looks like a shuv. I'm glad you made this video.
It looks like a vertical pressure flip to me, because if you look carefully, when you see a normal hardflip from the front, you can see the graphic of the board, as opposed to an inward heelflip (or a pressure flip), where you see the grip all the time, just like what you did. It's a very stylish pressure flip
I agree with your explanation; that is, he’s doing a backside pressure flip on the y-axis-which flips vertically, not horizontally. This demonstration, in the video, is not a late-1990s-style hardflip, also known as a ‘Muska Flip.’ To be a Muska flip, the graphic, as you mentioned, needs to be on the toe-side of the board while flipping (or folding) vertically on the y-axis.
this is great. me and one of my best friends used to have discussions like that 15 years ago, because his hardflips looked like the ones in this video. nostalgia is calling lol
I think the problem came up with the tonyhawk games, before this was muska flip, and a "shovit flip" was a hardflip, then everything got mixup. From a brazilian 90s kid
THAT WAS AWESOME YOUR TRICKS ARE SO SICK GREAT VIDEO BY THE WAY ANYWAYS ARE YOU SAVED? I COULDN'T IMAGINE HEAVEN WITHOUT YOU YOU HAVE A GOD GIVING TALENT KEEP UP WITH THE GOOD WORK
The first clipped you showed had the board going heal side, like we saw grip when we should've seen the graphic. Later on when he did the hard flip again we saw the graphic tho.
you‘re right it goes heelflip way. i will get a kickflip rotation for the illusion flip video on hard and fs flips. his illiusion flips sometimes we‘re flipped heel direction as well which is super confusing 💀 😂😂😂😂
@7:30 if anything it’s a pressure front heel varial illusion...the board doesn’t flip as if it was kick flipped, it flips towards the heel flip side ...the ones at the very end and the beginning were proper. back in the 90’s when Muska was doing the hard flips this way, the verticle way was the preferred way...but not exactly at 12 o clock vertical more like how you have it, between 1 and 2 o clock...
The board is flipping over while its turning vertical completing half of the flip, then the half rotation once the board is vertical would be rolling heel side since the nose and tail have switched places, hence the illusion. This has stumped me for a literal decade and I finally figured it out. Thanks Jonny
you‘re right! i guess i need to make one more video on illusion flips and do the hardflip as well flipped in kickflip direction. 😄 sorry i was focused too much on my friends example. we do it the same way i guess
When doing a hardflip, the graphic faces towards the front of your body. In this trick, his grip faced the front of his body. You can clearly see at 4:50 when he does a real hardflip that the graphic faced the camera but when he does the muska flip, the grip faced the camera. This is just like when you do a dolphin, the graphic will face in front of you but when doing a dolphin heel, the grip will face in front of you. There's no way to do a hardflip and have the grip not face in front. Its just not possible. Ok so after watching the video, at 6:34 if you slow down the video, you can see that the board begins to flip the opposite way that his foot would have flicked it if he went for an actual hardflip. Right after he pops, you can see the board begins to flip heel flip wise but since the board goes just slightly frontside because it's impossible to do a perfectly vertical trick, that means the board did less than half a heelflip and a front shuv, making this a regular frontside shuv that simply went between his legs. Its a really cool trick but it is NOT a hardflip. You can also compare his front shots of both tricks and see that in the hardlfip, the grip faces the right and in the muska flip, the grip faces the left.
you‘re right my bad! i was relating too much on my friends version of it and somehow didn‘t notice. sorry for this. i will get it right in an illusion flip video 🙏🏼
This is it. The grip tape should show on the heel side of the board when flipping and while this isn’t a shove it, it’s also not a hardflip at least in the “the board has to flip toward the front foot” type of thing. That being said, it may be even more difficult than a normal hardflip and it’s awesome, and it can be called a “muska hardflip” but it’s not a hardflip, IMHO
I don't know what you guys are seeing but when I put in .25 speed its definitely a hard flip you need to remember the viewing angle you have to flip it around for the front view l. We're so used to seeing to outward rotation from the side that we think is a heel flip or shuv when it's really a hard flip.
@@badtaste9497 he sometimes does illusion flips kickflip and sometimes heelflip way. it was hard to find footage of the hardflip. but i see your point 👍🏼
That half flip is spinning the wrong way though (like a heelflip). That's why it looks like a fs shuv from the side, because you can only see the grip tape the whole time as it flips. Is that how muska flipped his hardflips?
@@DingusMcBrungus it would be a vertical fs pressure flip if the front foot did not guide the rotation--but I've never seen one done like that. there's always a gentle 'flick'.
That "Muska way" of flipping it was the only way we would do a hardflip or frontside flip 20 years ago because the vertical flip made it such harder tricks to master.. at the expense of your ball sac. I learned years after that most people were not making it flip vertically.. Oh well Thanks so much for this! Frontside flip like those were my signature move back then!
The muska flip looks like it's flipping the opposite direction. Like a backfoot varial heel Hardflip: ua-cam.com/video/K169EQsuWU4/v-deo.html Muskaflip: ua-cam.com/video/K169EQsuWU4/v-deo.html Both look sick 😎 #flipgate2021
It's physics, if something turning clockwise is turned 180 it starts turning counter clock wise. Because this trick spins fast and flips slow most of the flip WILL appear counter clockwise even though it wasn't.
@@JonnyGiger Hey bro, i'm from canada Chris Haslam literally told me it's a hardflip or pressure flip. He says if you flip it slow but spin it fast it looks like a heel flip even though it isn't and if you flip it fast and spin it slow it looks like a kickflip. So he says your friend is doing the same trick each time it just looks entirely different based on the spin vs flip speed.
I do my frontside flip using a variation of this method, the toe is more in the backside of the board's pocket. If you have done it this way, you can for sure feel it's a hardflip. I literally only learnt frontside flips because I was trying to hardflip this way, and my body rotates to avoid credit cards.
Favorit Skater, ur vids r always so good and ur Skateboarding ist just great! Oredert ur Pro Model 2 Weeks ago, but I'm still waiting haha but yeah I'm hyped for the Board.
I like watching Sewa Kroetkov's hardlfips, the way he does them is sick, and it's VERY easy to see the board NOT flipping in a 'shoveit-ish' way. And to me it was easy enough to see that yours were totally hardflips. You COULD see the board flipping in a hardflip motion.
Finally someone illustrates this. The “illusion” hardflip or Muska hardflip - it flips half and flip for sure! I first learned them this way and you can feel that it flips and it feels kinda like magic really lol. It’s definitely not a front shuv. Though it does look like a shuv like half the time, from certain angles like you demonstrated. Bravo sir
Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate your dedication to pefection.Also there's really know one who does what you do.Its awesome to see your always smiling in the end.Mission accomplished.
I hardflip the muska way, it works for me. I setup similar to an impossible, front foot a little further back. Shoulders open, look forward, pop down super hard and your foot glides off the side ever so slightly for that half flip.
I Feel like muska's hardflip really is a hardflip, but this one on the video looked more like a pressure flip popped high as fck, but then again, my hardflips kinda look like this. So i don't know
You know what? This actually IS a front shuv. I just sat with a fingerboard recreating it. My mind was completely confused. No, this isn’t a hard flip. It’s like a weird half pressure flip from the toes, but it doesn’t technically flip. It’s a very tweaked front shuv.
@@mrcakeslayer1264 a hard flip is a front shuv with a flip in it... not just a rocket front shuv! do a 180 with that trick and you have done a frontside 180, not a frontside flip
Mr. Giger, Thank you so much for agreeing with me on hardflips. I also consider the vertical/Muska flip a hardflip. From my experience the way you get the Muska hardlflip over the other one is too much *OOMF* in your back foot. Transferring the focus of *OOMF* to your front foot/the flick will create the more traditional hardlfip. But I 100% agree the Muska flip feels a lot more natural. Sincerely A fan that is very happy to have just bought your pro model.
@@JonnyGiger that is not a hardflip. It is just pressure done vertically. 6:33 you can clearly see the flip is done with a backfoot. Muska has extremely vertical hardflips but he still does it with his front foot.
^THIS!!! also kick flip = 360 rotation of (lets say) X axis. shuv-it = 180 degree rotation on Y axis.... Muska shuv (not a flip) = 180 rotation on X and 180 on Z!!! Totals: Muska Shuv = 360 degrees of rotation ; Hardflip = 540 degrees of rotation. not the same ALSO "Flip" = something that has Flipped = flipped OVER = grip tape facing the ground... easy. not a flip.
@@SantinoDeluxe it gets down and back and is called a flip. And yes, it is skateboarding not ab meeting. To "cancel" it you have to do something. It isn't a meeting. If you actually cancel it, it's a bail.
@@maddinlicious i didnt disagree, i said flip = flipped over. i also said a proper cancel gets upside-down... then i posed a q to play with your fragile mind. no worries, its just a piece of wood.
dude one of the older guys was like nice front shove and said it wasnt a hardflip. I died a bit inside and never did them after that. I grew up in that era and so of course i looked at muskas hardflips thought I was doing them right. This makes me feel good inside
Heck yea dude! I remember in 2000 ish i was only person doing hardflips the correct way created a bunch of arguments, but the difference you can tell between the tweaked pop shuv and the muska style is that the flip happens really fast within the pop, i noticed it best with the behind angle more than the front. Keep crushing it giger!!! 👊🏻
Dude does all the craziest tricks no problem. Then his board slips from under his hand a little at the end and he says "oops almost died" lol gotta love skaters.
Perfect explanation with the board Jonny! really cool how you require less of a flip the more vertical the board goes, the intro trick almost looked like it was gonna be a zero/monster flip when I first watched it ahaha, great video
I thought the Muska flip was where the body rotated 180 as well as the board or what I remember in the 90's calling a folder flip. Still to this day the Muska "folder" flip and front side flips are still the illest looking tricks. Your flip trick and hard flips being a close second.
Vertical hardflip would be a 180 vertical rotation and half *kickflip*, that would show us the board image, not the grip tape. What we see on a video is a vertical pressure varial heelflip or vertical pressure inward heelflip. The board shows grip tape, meaning this is half heelflip. Because the board also does vertical rotation, it is impossible to tell if this is varial or inward because there is no "front" or "back", it is vertical. And finally, there is no flick, so it is a pressure trick.
Dude, THANK YOU, HUGE THANKS for this video, you just cleared one of the most agonizing doubts I had in my mind LOL. Now I can sleep peacefully at night (You could do a video like this on inward/hard heel flips and the infamous Ghetto Bird too, sorry for asking too much hehe) Huge thanks, from a brazilian THPS OG generation frustrated skateboarder
Look at the hardflip at 4:33, the graphic faces outward from you, because it flips. Now look at the 'hardflip' at 6:20 , the graphic is facing behind you aka it doesn't flip, or 'flips' the opposite direction to the fs shuv. So i definitely would not call it a hard flip. I think my main point of contention on your hang ten one was actually the fact the shuv part of the hardflip is literally the wrong way. The shuv went nollie varial direction and not nollie hardflip direction.
The thing I'm looking is the direction the board flips. At 4:32 when he catches it, the board turns the heelflip way which is the normal rotation after the board spins 180°. But at 6:20 it would flip like a kickflip.
I (don't?) like how literally one of the Best flatground skaters in the world gets soo many comments from people knowing it all better.. You produce awesome Videos and are an amazing, inspiring skater. Definitely keep it up! Peace from Zürich
Haha that's actually how I used to try learning Hardflips I've actually landed a couple like that but didn't realize it looked like that from the front, awesome
Early 2000s, my hardflips were vertical. I could get a lot of pop in them . I didn't realize they can be more front shove style until I saw Brian Herman do them like that.
This is how I always did my hardflips and I've never heard anyone say anything till recently on some UA-cam channels. I always thought the vertical hardflips looked better anyway, especially with a front side 180 ( which I guess is technically a Frontside flip.)
wow this is bizarre. I thought you were doing it pressure at first, and it was flipping heelflip, then I watched it like 10 times frame by frame, and I get what you're saying. Very strange
It's heelflip rotation, & his back foot caused the rotation, so this is in fact a pressure flip. A really really nice pressure flip, but it is in fact a pressure flip non he less.
@@seriousskateboarding9938 Wrong. It spins/rotates like a vertical frontside pop shuvit and thus can't be a Pressure flip as there is no flip and Pressure flips flip backside.
@@seriousskateboarding9938 its still the wrong spin and flip for a pressure flip idk how people miss that. its literally going the opposite way.
@@nedtempleton4873 ua-cam.com/video/pujzwNQDvRE/v-deo.html This is a muska flip bro. Muska flip has a kickflip rotation. Jonnys flip did a heelflip rotation. If you remove the vertical part of the equation, muska would be an inward kickflip aka hardflip. Jonny here did a outward pressure heel aka pressure varial heel, but it's verticle. If muska did a fs180 with his muska flip it's a front side flip. Jonnys flip + fs180 doesn't equate to a front side flip, at all. If Johnny added a fa 180 to this it would be a fs heel pressure flip. Analyse closely. The muska flip and Johnny's flip are spinning in the opposite direction.
@@DoitForTheLolz1 His foot position was for kickflip. He did heelflip without actually heeling the board, ofcourse this is a pressure flip.
One man's warmup is another man's video part.
I'll take front shuv looking hardflips over 360 shuv looking impossibles.
Preach!
I approve this message
Louder for the people in the back.
Both tricks are nice and shuv lookin impossible is a different trick a three 360 shuv it both are pretty impressive
I can't stand people passing off shuv it's as Impossibles. Just learn the trick! Trust if you take the time to learn a legit Impossible it feels so much better!
That clip of Muska crooked grinding that rail with the boombox on his shoulder is at my home town skatepark! Its in White Rock, B.C. Canada! 😎🤘 i was there that day... i was 9 years old lol.
What was that bg song though?🤔
I was there too but I was more like 19. God I feel old.
Chad is My skate Goat for sure, then Kareem, Tony 3rd(But Vert 1st)
So sick. It's funny because Andy Anderson is from White Rock.
Sick
obviously i don‘t understand the trick either. i‘m sorry for flipping it the wrong direction. this would be the muska way to varial/inward heel then. we‘ll cover the flip version in an upcoming illusion flip video. this truely is the most confusing thing to me 😂 title fits perfect 🙏🏼 see u guys soon ❤️🙌🏼
Maybe Muska Flip is original way to hardflip and later people started calling inward kickflip a hardflip?
i think it’s a pressure inward heelflip, but it flips more vertical; but i don’t know what is this trick😂😂
@@kamilburniak4653 the hardflip came before muska flipd
Hey Jonny, I understand what you are saying about the flip but to me a true hardflip is a front shove kick flip. Yes I prefer the 'real' way and i believe that is the only true hardflip. But its doesn't mean the flip in question isn't it's own trick. Look at muska fs flips and hardflips. They aren't frontside 180 kickflip. The reason for me is because the flip isn't generated from the front foot. It's an illusion. It's really a kind of pressure flip.
Even when muska was big we had always called them illusion flips term I knew in the late 90s/early 2000s in Australia. Fs illusion/illusion hardflip. I dunno. I hope u understand what im tryna say. That's my opinion.
We used the term a lot when doing them on transition. Maybe you can explain why it's not a type of pressure flip. I never really understood those in the sense that I couldn't do them but i could do most other flips. I always thought of the illusion 'rule' we had when doing nollie inward heel and hards because they roll over easy easy.
Anyway. Love your skills man. Was always a fan of flips late shove and vice versa. You do them so well! Later.
I think the difference is in the front foot. Front shove has foot stay over board, muska flip makes board do a vertical shove while front foot goes behind the board (between your legs), and a hardflip causes the board to actually flip so the front foot is already behind the board from the flick (board between legs)
"wow. almost died" LOL
Ikr
@Sethy Garcia i was about to comment exactly what he said, but saw the comment and I was like 'nah'
I loled really loud at the middle of the train 🚆 👏🏼🤣
When I was a kid in the late 90's early 2000's nobody in my circle understood that hardflips were front shuv + kickflip, we all thought you HAD to do it vertical, in between your legs. The way the board flips naturally if you just hit the tail straight down basically.
Same here!
Same here. The reason I never got into hardflips (in the 90ties).
Blame the tony hawk games
yup. Because in 92/93 before the Rocco guys and (later in 95) Tom Penny showed us the way, everyone wanted to avoid the lame 90 degree-to-pivot-the-rest syndrome. If only we had Mullen or Giger to show us proper foot setup... where the hell were you Johnny? lol
Yup it had to go in between the legs lol that’s a fact.
I started skateboarding in 1997 or 1998. For me and my friends, a hardflip was vertical by definition. Otherwise it was a variation of the 180 flip. Nevertheless, everybody knew Muska for his signature ES shoes with the special compartment!
we always called the front shuv style tricks "illusion flips"
Same here. We had hardflips, illusion flips (what’s in this video) and muska flips (frontside 180 illusion flip also called a Chetty Thomas) and frontside flips (frontside 180 kickflips). All different.
For me it was alway like: The modern Hardflip is an Illusion Flip (because its not a real OG Hardflip) and the modern Front Flip is an Muska Flip. May be wrong but thats how it felt for me.
@@berrtusmaximus5212 yeah Chet Thomas did em more then Muska. We called it the German FS flip/hardflip. Because back in the days all German kids were trying to learn it like Muska. We tried the girl/chocolate way: extremely horizontal.
YES! Hopped you would bring the Muska Flip one day!
Very hopped
Well, u _do_ have to hop to do the trick
Cruss Teasock , Lostminds, lol!
I will not change it.
@@luudest I would hop you wouldn't
I would say it spun the heelflip way. When you do a regular hardflip, the graphic would be facing your front side and grip tape facing your back side as it's flipping. This video shows the grip tape facing your front and graphic facing your back. Maybe you invented the illusion of the muska flip?
was looking for this!!
I agree, I would also say that it’s doing a pressure flip type movement.
Fully agreed. More like a pressure/inward heel
I think this is more like an inward. I believe I have the proof to verify this. I have a Muska hardflip here & it flips the other way m.ua-cam.com/video/w-xHnZ_ZQ3Q/v-deo.html
I also have a vertical inward heelflip here & Jonnys looks more like this
m.ua-cam.com/video/miLYMJ4HKhU/v-deo.html
dang I just commented the same thing hahaha
The hard flip... SWEEP THE LEG, JOHNNY
You know you’re good when you do a Heelfip late shuv as a warm up
You should do a side by side comparison of a front shut and the muska flip. This will really show the difference between the 2.
Everybody always gets so caught up on trick names!
this is a perfect illustration of what some of us were trying to say to defend you in the hang ten video. The angle facing the way you travel shows it flipping but the side profile one looks like a shuv. I'm glad you made this video.
Wow man, the dedication is amazing in this one. Keep up the good work! Absolute bliss to see you skate
Younger skaters don’t understand, but this was the only way to hard flip with style back in the day.
kids today dont understand tradition.
Well put
I’ve always thought it would be cool if someone did both styles in one line.
Then there was torey pudwill
And frontside flip as well. If your frontside flip want vertical it was kooky.
Hahahhaa the windows error sound at 0:47 make me laugh so hard 😂😂😂😂
Lol was machst du denn hier? :D
@@BiG_R die Frage is was machst du hier 😂
Thanks for including the comparison at the end. It is beyond obvious these are two different tricks when you see them back to back.
So, that was the most stylish pressure varial heelflip I have every seen
💀💀
Yep
Yep you are right
Yeah it flips heel flip rotation or am I bugging
@@aidanluczkow3082 fer sure
It looks like a vertical pressure flip to me, because if you look carefully, when you see a normal hardflip from the front, you can see the graphic of the board, as opposed to an inward heelflip (or a pressure flip), where you see the grip all the time, just like what you did. It's a very stylish pressure flip
I agree with your explanation; that is, he’s doing a backside pressure flip on the y-axis-which flips vertically, not horizontally. This demonstration, in the video, is not a late-1990s-style hardflip, also known as a ‘Muska Flip.’ To be a Muska flip, the graphic, as you mentioned, needs to be on the toe-side of the board while flipping (or folding) vertically on the y-axis.
this is great. me and one of my best friends used to have discussions like that 15 years ago, because his hardflips looked like the ones in this video. nostalgia is calling lol
finally someone broke down the difference from a Muska flip, Hard flip, and Pop shuvit.....Nice work Jonny
I think the problem came up with the tonyhawk games, before this was muska flip, and a "shovit flip" was a hardflip, then everything got mixup. From a brazilian 90s kid
6:33 - what trick is that? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a Hardflip flip the board Kick- side and not Heel- side like Jonny did?
exactly what i thought. If it goes kickside even if it looks like a front shuv ill let it slide but it rotates to the wrong direction.
@@Inyafacegerman Yep. I'll concede that it does do half a flip but it's heelflip direction. The front foot does nothing.
I didn’t even realize that. He just did a complicated Varial heel
Thanks @@nicali9940.
@@f.b.jeffers0n agree, look like a pressure flip the rotation seem been thrown with the back foot on this angle 6:40
THAT WAS AWESOME YOUR TRICKS ARE SO SICK GREAT VIDEO BY THE WAY ANYWAYS ARE YOU SAVED? I COULDN'T IMAGINE HEAVEN WITHOUT YOU YOU HAVE A GOD GIVING TALENT KEEP UP WITH THE GOOD WORK
Killer style, killer hardflips. Your warm up was my favorite part though 👌🏼
I put this at .5 and .25 to try and make sense of the rotation and it sounds like Giger has just done a bunch of Quaaludes. LOL
The first clipped you showed had the board going heal side, like we saw grip when we should've seen the graphic. Later on when he did the hard flip again we saw the graphic tho.
you‘re right it goes heelflip way. i will get a kickflip rotation for the illusion flip video on hard and fs flips. his illiusion flips sometimes we‘re flipped heel direction as well which is super confusing 💀 😂😂😂😂
@7:30 if anything it’s a pressure front heel varial illusion...the board doesn’t flip as if it was kick flipped, it flips towards the heel flip side ...the ones at the very end and the beginning were proper. back in the 90’s when Muska was doing the hard flips this way, the verticle way was the preferred way...but not exactly at 12 o clock vertical more like how you have it, between 1 and 2 o clock...
The board is flipping over while its turning vertical completing half of the flip, then the half rotation once the board is vertical would be rolling heel side since the nose and tail have switched places, hence the illusion. This has stumped me for a literal decade and I finally figured it out. Thanks Jonny
It's a cool looking trick, but the half flip is rotating the heelflip direction. Not a hardflip, almost more of a pressureflip but really slammed down
That what I was thinking, its really hard to tell
you‘re right! i guess i need to make one more video on illusion flips and do the hardflip as well flipped in kickflip direction. 😄 sorry i was focused too much on my friends example. we do it the same way i guess
@@JonnyGiger I'd watch it! No worries - keep doing what you do
Great job on building that park as well, looks amazing
When doing a hardflip, the graphic faces towards the front of your body. In this trick, his grip faced the front of his body. You can clearly see at 4:50 when he does a real hardflip that the graphic faced the camera but when he does the muska flip, the grip faced the camera. This is just like when you do a dolphin, the graphic will face in front of you but when doing a dolphin heel, the grip will face in front of you. There's no way to do a hardflip and have the grip not face in front. Its just not possible.
Ok so after watching the video, at 6:34 if you slow down the video, you can see that the board begins to flip the opposite way that his foot would have flicked it if he went for an actual hardflip. Right after he pops, you can see the board begins to flip heel flip wise but since the board goes just slightly frontside because it's impossible to do a perfectly vertical trick, that means the board did less than half a heelflip and a front shuv, making this a regular frontside shuv that simply went between his legs. Its a really cool trick but it is NOT a hardflip. You can also compare his front shots of both tricks and see that in the hardlfip, the grip faces the right and in the muska flip, the grip faces the left.
True :)
you‘re right my bad! i was relating too much on my friends version of it and somehow didn‘t notice. sorry for this. i will get it right in an illusion flip video 🙏🏼
glad you addressed this in the comments. I studied those slomo clips over and over and the board flips heelflip side.
Mr Geiger I love you. You are incredibly good at skateboarding but yet so humble.
this makes my brain hurt
Flip is going opposite of the flick
This is it. The grip tape should show on the heel side of the board when flipping and while this isn’t a shove it, it’s also not a hardflip at least in the “the board has to flip toward the front foot” type of thing. That being said, it may be even more difficult than a normal hardflip and it’s awesome, and it can be called a “muska hardflip” but it’s not a hardflip, IMHO
Its kind a fs shuv half heelflip. But i think muska does it more like pop shov half kickflip.
the trick performed in this video is a vertical pressure flip (inward heelflip direction). he confusingly 1/2 flipped it the wrong direction.
I don't know what you guys are seeing but when I put in .25 speed its definitely a hard flip you need to remember the viewing angle you have to flip it around for the front view l. We're so used to seeing to outward rotation from the side that we think is a heel flip or shuv when it's really a hard flip.
@@badtaste9497 he sometimes does illusion flips kickflip and sometimes heelflip way. it was hard to find footage of the hardflip. but i see your point 👍🏼
Muska Flips were always my favourite trick growing up, switch or regular, it feels so good to catch and stomp it down - Illusion Flip Bodyvarial
He says that he cannot hard flip but they are squeaky clean. Nice work, and nice synopsis of the Muska hard flips!
Brandon turner won trick of the year by switch front shoving wallenberg.!
It wasn't a Switch fs pop shuvit. It was a Switch Hardflip.
That half flip is spinning the wrong way though (like a heelflip). That's why it looks like a fs shuv from the side, because you can only see the grip tape the whole time as it flips. Is that how muska flipped his hardflips?
Had to watch twice but I caught that too not a hard flip tweaked variel heel at best
you are correct--this is not how Muska did them. should be grip to the left. the trick in this video is a vertical pressure flip.
@@derekperc The half-flip going the other way would still be a vertical pressure flip though, just in the other direction
@@DingusMcBrungus it would be a vertical fs pressure flip if the front foot did not guide the rotation--but I've never seen one done like that. there's always a gentle 'flick'.
I don’t even skateboard and I love watching your channel.
Your warm up will be my lifes accomplishment
Hello from Russia !!! ❤️❤️❤️
not even close to a hardflip because the board is “half flipping” heelflip direction
True. I think it more like "fs shove-t front foot behind the board"
The artwork on Revive boards are super good much respect
That "Muska way" of flipping it was the only way we would do a hardflip or frontside flip 20 years ago because the vertical flip made it such harder tricks to master.. at the expense of your ball sac.
I learned years after that most people were not making it flip vertically.. Oh well
Thanks so much for this! Frontside flip like those were my signature move back then!
The muska flip looks like it's flipping the opposite direction. Like a backfoot varial heel
Hardflip: ua-cam.com/video/K169EQsuWU4/v-deo.html
Muskaflip: ua-cam.com/video/K169EQsuWU4/v-deo.html
Both look sick 😎
#flipgate2021
appreciate the effort but there's nothing at all that looks like a varial heel to me
he sometimes does his illusion flips heel side sometimes kickflip way 😂 it‘s really the most confusing trick
It's physics, if something turning clockwise is turned 180 it starts turning counter clock wise. Because this trick spins fast and flips slow most of the flip WILL appear counter clockwise even though it wasn't.
@@JonnyGiger Hey bro, i'm from canada Chris Haslam literally told me it's a hardflip or pressure flip. He says if you flip it slow but spin it fast it looks like a heel flip even though it isn't and if you flip it fast and spin it slow it looks like a kickflip. So he says your friend is doing the same trick each time it just looks entirely different based on the spin vs flip speed.
Location at the beginning was Stuttgart, Germany. Penny was also there....people went crazy back then, Penny and Muska were gods
Penny thankfully killed-off kickturn frontside flips IIRC
I do my frontside flip using a variation of this method, the toe is more in the backside of the board's pocket. If you have done it this way, you can for sure feel it's a hardflip. I literally only learnt frontside flips because I was trying to hardflip this way, and my body rotates to avoid credit cards.
Favorit Skater, ur vids r always so good and ur Skateboarding ist just great! Oredert ur Pro Model 2 Weeks ago, but I'm still waiting haha but yeah I'm hyped for the Board.
thanks for the support 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Thanks for the heart
I like watching Sewa Kroetkov's hardlfips, the way he does them is sick, and it's VERY easy to see the board NOT flipping in a 'shoveit-ish' way. And to me it was easy enough to see that yours were totally hardflips. You COULD see the board flipping in a hardflip motion.
Grip never faces the ground
Finally someone illustrates this. The “illusion” hardflip or Muska hardflip - it flips half and flip for sure! I first learned them this way and you can feel that it flips and it feels kinda like magic really lol. It’s definitely not a front shuv. Though it does look like a shuv like half the time, from certain angles like you demonstrated. Bravo sir
Bro your heelflip late shuv is sick great job broski! Keep up nice videos. Nice hardflips sick!
I love your “poor little fragile soul” 🤣 I was still with laughter.
I don’t even see the front shuv.
Use me as this is still a hardflip button.
Giger your insane 😯😯😲unbelievable great! For me the best in the world. God bless you Bro, big up! 🌍💪🛹🛹🛹🤩🤩
Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate your dedication to pefection.Also there's really know one who does what you do.Its awesome to see your always smiling in the end.Mission accomplished.
I hardflip the muska way, it works for me. I setup similar to an impossible, front foot a little further back. Shoulders open, look forward, pop down super hard and your foot glides off the side ever so slightly for that half flip.
I Feel like muska's hardflip really is a hardflip, but this one on the video looked more like a pressure flip popped high as fck, but then again, my hardflips kinda look like this. So i don't know
theres the muska way or the lazy varial ones
You know what? This actually IS a front shuv. I just sat with a fingerboard recreating it. My mind was completely confused. No, this isn’t a hard flip. It’s like a weird half pressure flip from the toes, but it doesn’t technically flip. It’s a very tweaked front shuv.
If that’s a front shove then what’s a hardflip?
I never knew u skated Mac
@@mrcakeslayer1264 a hard flip is a front shuv with a flip in it... not just a rocket front shuv! do a 180 with that trick and you have done a frontside 180, not a frontside flip
Mr. Giger,
Thank you so much for agreeing with me on hardflips. I also consider the vertical/Muska flip a hardflip. From my experience the way you get the Muska hardlflip over the other one is too much *OOMF* in your back foot. Transferring the focus of *OOMF* to your front foot/the flick will create the more traditional hardlfip. But I 100% agree the Muska flip feels a lot more natural.
Sincerely
A fan that is very happy to have just bought your pro model.
This is how I always used a hard flip before my back injury. Nice one Jonny. 🤜🏼🤛🏼
Its flipping heelflip direction though. Its like some weird pressure varial heel
look closer at all the examples especially the last one at the very end of the video. it is clearly flipping kickflip and not heelflip way ✌🏼
Yes it is, looks like a vertical pressure flip, if it was actually vertical hardflip the board would "half-flip" the other way
@@JonnyGiger its flipping the opposite way to this:
ua-cam.com/video/pujzwNQDvRE/v-deo.html
@@JonnyGiger that is not a hardflip. It is just pressure done vertically. 6:33 you can clearly see the flip is done with a backfoot. Muska has extremely vertical hardflips but he still does it with his front foot.
I wouldn't count it as a hardflip since its flipping the wrong way 😂
^THIS!!! also kick flip = 360 rotation of (lets say) X axis. shuv-it = 180 degree rotation on Y axis.... Muska shuv (not a flip) = 180 rotation on X and 180 on Z!!!
Totals: Muska Shuv = 360 degrees of rotation ; Hardflip = 540 degrees of rotation. not the same
ALSO "Flip" = something that has Flipped = flipped OVER = grip tape facing the ground... easy. not a flip.
After that logic; a Cancel Flip isn't a flip too?
@@maddinlicious a proper cancel gets upside-down, but ask yourself this, is a canceled anything really that thing?
@@SantinoDeluxe it gets down and back and is called a flip. And yes, it is skateboarding not ab meeting. To "cancel" it you have to do something. It isn't a meeting. If you actually cancel it, it's a bail.
@@maddinlicious i didnt disagree, i said flip = flipped over. i also said a proper cancel gets upside-down... then i posed a q to play with your fragile mind. no worries, its just a piece of wood.
dude one of the older guys was like nice front shove and said it wasnt a hardflip. I died a bit inside and never did them after that. I grew up in that era and so of course i looked at muskas hardflips thought I was doing them right. This makes me feel good inside
Heck yea dude! I remember in 2000 ish i was only person doing hardflips the correct way created a bunch of arguments, but the difference you can tell between the tweaked pop shuv and the muska style is that the flip happens really fast within the pop, i noticed it best with the behind angle more than the front. Keep crushing it giger!!! 👊🏻
Look at the clip of Muska doing his flip over the hip @2.23 and then your flip @6.40, your board is ‘flipping’ the wrong direction man.
Looks like a pressure flip.
Lol.
Trying to make you angry
Yes... Same rotation...
damn.. so many years waiting for somebody explain this
Dude does all the craziest tricks no problem. Then his board slips from under his hand a little at the end and he says "oops almost died" lol gotta love skaters.
Muska had the sickest hardflip of all time. Call it what you want. It’s a hardflip bottom line. He just did it better than anyone in the game.
I think they are ugly Bryan Herman does them better
It’s not muska flip dude, muska flip = fs 180 kickflip through the hardflip
Perfect explanation with the board Jonny! really cool how you require less of a flip the more vertical the board goes, the intro trick almost looked like it was gonna be a zero/monster flip when I first watched it ahaha, great video
I thought the Muska flip was where the body rotated 180 as well as the board or what I remember in the 90's calling a folder flip. Still to this day the Muska "folder" flip and front side flips are still the illest looking tricks. Your flip trick and hard flips being a close second.
I was 2 seconds too late
Vertical hardflip would be a 180 vertical rotation and half *kickflip*, that would show us the board image, not the grip tape. What we see on a video is a vertical pressure varial heelflip or vertical pressure inward heelflip. The board shows grip tape, meaning this is half heelflip. Because the board also does vertical rotation, it is impossible to tell if this is varial or inward because there is no "front" or "back", it is vertical. And finally, there is no flick, so it is a pressure trick.
True true! I just messaged him on instagram about this topic, I hope he responds at least to one of the comments. Still sick trick though!
@@Sikorke Of course it is sick! One of my most fav skaters + sick pop and clean.
PHANTOM FLIPS looked terrible 20 years ago, and still do now... great channel :)
Dude, THANK YOU, HUGE THANKS for this video, you just cleared one of the most agonizing doubts I had in my mind LOL. Now I can sleep peacefully at night
(You could do a video like this on inward/hard heel flips and the infamous Ghetto Bird too, sorry for asking too much hehe)
Huge thanks, from a brazilian THPS OG generation frustrated skateboarder
There is no confusion lol it's just internet being internet
For a real muska flip, you gotta flick.
Lmaooo at the Chopin at 2:40 it fits perfectly.
I noticed that too!!! Prelude in E minor to be exact!!
Jonny is a good guy. Lots of snow here too in canada skating on my balcony today
This video is such an illusion!
It's also called illusion flip soooo...
But... He just spin the board like a hell front shov... It is a hardflip??
No exactly, hardflip is kickflip+frontshuv
@@Pornsurfer yes, its not the same trick
Heel flip late shuv, beautiful!!!
the catch on the muska style hard flip is so dope.
Look at the hardflip at 4:33, the graphic faces outward from you, because it flips.
Now look at the 'hardflip' at 6:20 , the graphic is facing behind you aka it doesn't flip, or 'flips' the opposite direction to the fs shuv. So i definitely would not call it a hard flip.
I think my main point of contention on your hang ten one was actually the fact the shuv part of the hardflip is literally the wrong way. The shuv went nollie varial direction and not nollie hardflip direction.
I'm also really stoned so i don't really care, but i do want to know peoples thoughts on the graphic thing
@@DrewIsSharingu cared enough to comment that dipshit can u hard flip?
The thing I'm looking is the direction the board flips. At 4:32 when he catches it, the board turns the heelflip way which is the normal rotation after the board spins 180°. But at 6:20 it would flip like a kickflip.
@@DrewIsSharing holding in your hits def gets you higher. Just wanted to mention that.
@@skate452 yes... I can hardflip...
I (don't?) like how literally one of the Best flatground skaters in the world gets soo many comments from people knowing it all better.. You produce awesome Videos and are an amazing, inspiring skater. Definitely keep it up!
Peace from Zürich
This is how I've always done them, and have never heard anyone tell me it was a shove-it
Well illustrated, amazing how the camera angle makes such a difference🤘
See him bust his old tricks on Hawk's video? Ended with a horrible fracture but all that was missing was a boombox. The Muska Man lives ! Always!
Haha that's actually how I used to try learning Hardflips I've actually landed a couple like that but didn't realize it looked like that from the front, awesome
Hi I love your videos bro!!
Your the best flatground skater there is and I have been watching for 3 years
Best skateboarding channel on the planet
Right
Early 2000s, my hardflips were vertical. I could get a lot of pop in them . I didn't realize they can be more front shove style until I saw Brian Herman do them like that.
My last Giger pro model was stolen! I can’t wait to get this one, its not coming off my wall! Thanks for the comment on my insta Jonny!💪🏽🔥
The best explain i'v ever see! Thx Jonny you are the best
This is how I always did my hardflips and I've never heard anyone say anything till recently on some UA-cam channels. I always thought the vertical hardflips looked better anyway, especially with a front side 180 ( which I guess is technically a Frontside flip.)