Hi Ludwig! Thank you for using my video to explain the situation, the game is in a pretty bad state lol. Despite the bots, so many players still love the game and want to remember what it was like to at least play the game normally like they used to. We can only hope that Valve stays to their word- or at least tell us they're pulling the plug.
Hey dude! I watched your video on it after seeing this one. Sucks to hear about what's going on with the scene considering the game holds some cherished memories for me (man I fucking loved running around as a scout in mvm). Good luck with y'alls movement!
Melee and TF2 truly are kindred spirits, so its awesome to see you raising awareness of issues in our grassroots scene as well. Thanks for making this video!
@@yxp_ Yeah thats a good point, i just really hope they solve this issue and not let it continue. Most of the tf2 community would obviously love having a big update but the main priority now is just fixing this stupid bug, and if they do I think most people will be satisfied.
Before everyone starts acting crazy, know that the actual team that works on tf2 is small and underpaid, their almost all doing it cause they love the game and their not allowed by valve to hire or get volunteers due to internal company issues don’t blame the developing team blame valve.
Actually it is literally just one guy doing it in his free time that we know of. It’s mainly cause higher ups can get people fired or lower their pay if they don’t work on what the higher ups want. I.e higher ups vote negatively over a certain person if they don’t work on software development.
@@wafflecon6029 is it like that? from my knowledge it was pretty much just that nobody really wanted to code for the game due to how much of spaghetti the code is
The Voice Actors for TF2 are genuinely some of the most awesome people in the gaming community. I love whoever voiced up (I would imagine it was Scout's VA), but they all are really incredible, and a lot of them still will stream and read out some chat requests in the voice they acted. I miss Rick May so fucking much though.
The person that messaged valve was the voice actor for medic. I don't know what happened to the Scout Voice Actor, I know he has a youtube channel called ChiliOfDestiny though.
I honestly don't get companies that are just willing to let their games die. Nintendo has zero interest in supporting the melee community, and valve is ok with this just snow balling till it's unplayable. You have a cash cow and you are putting it out into a pasture littered with rattle snakes.
money. that's it. I guess trading and weapon purchases can get there somewhere but if they have to choose between updating an old game in hopes of getting some cents or updating/making something fully new to get those profits as well as game sales. Nintendo has even less reason to do anything
I think it's because melee and TF2 aren't actually cash cows. They're beloved and have loyal fanbases, sure, but I'd wager that almost all of Nintendo's revenue comes from new products like the Switch while an even bigger chunk of Valve's comes from Steam
Valve hasn't been primarily a game development studio for ages now, distribution is their main market and they make way more off steam than they would making a new game or a new update to older games. Plus as much as your nostalgia would leave you to believe, tf2 really never was a popular game barely peaking at 150k players compared to both dota and csgo peaking at 1 million each.
I found Ludwig through Jerma, someone who got me into TF2, and the more I see Ludwig’s videos, the more he is probably one of the best guys on this platform. He doesn’t even play the game, yet here he is spreading the message!
Hello from the future! For the first time in the company's history, Valve allowed outside contractors to work on the problem. Result? Up to 80% of bots were removed, most of their exploits and tricks were removed, and the bots were hard banned from Steam. What few remain are easily kicked. TF2 is playable. It's even receiving very minor updates! ... we won!!
I don't see it that way at all. It's absurd that they put out a CS2 before a new TF game. Absolutely tragic as well considering how huge of a potential the game could have and how big it could be if Valve just treated TF2 from a development stand point that they do with Dota for example.
@@zero28ism oh yeah, I know about that, also watched the end of the video, I'm hoping that it isn't just a tweet saying that they'll do something but they don't end up doing it, you know. We can only hope :P
Man I love TF2 it’s so fun to just hop in a call with friends and play. The bots have made it really hard to play recently though. I’m glad that Valve is working on it.
@@Jerry_Bean TF2 has not run it's course, but has been pushed off of the road. TF2 has many more years to travel before it ends, it has just been shoved in the mud.
@@Jerry_Bean Maybe for you but there are still thousands of active players. If there’s a major issue with a game that still has a generally devoted fan base then the company that made said game should fix the problem. If they don’t, they just kinda lose out on those customers who got tired of being introduced to a good game, only for it to be run through the mud years later.
I have been playing TF2 since around 2013, The game really really just didnt hit for me anymore due to the bot. I am amazed that TF2 now has a movement like this and we can all hope for bots to be eradicated. A cherry on top would be a new update since its been 1000+ days aswell.
I played TF2 religiously from the day it dropped. I was a day 1 Orange Box purchaser. I quit the game in 2011-2012 at the very height of the hat/item craze and made about $350 selling my TF2 inventory, which was peanuts compared to most of my friends $30,000+ hat filled accounts. Turning the game into an investment opportunity that could, properly executed, pay rent in a Brazilian flavela for 3 years straight killed this game years before the bots did. Valve gave up on TF2 when GO came out. Valve has not been a moral or ethical gaming company since the Orange Box. Valve has been dead for 15 years.
TF2 was such an influential game that everyone just forgot about because valve let it die, i can say with confidence that valorant and overwatch would not have existed without TF2, specifically overwatch. that game was heavily influenced by tf2 and honestly the only reason i played overwatch was because i was a fan of tf2
TF2 was the first game I was obsessed with, back when I was a kid in middle school. I fucking love that game. It's so dumb and goofy, and amazing. I'm so sad that it's being neglected. I understand that there's npot much incentive to keep improving it, but fuck it has so much potential even today, despite how old it is.
I have been a person who played the competitive side a decent amount over the past few years, the community is amazing and the competitive scene is suprisingly healthy with the gamestate. I absolutely want this game to be a resurgence because it truly is a masterpiece.
@@Crelter it’s in one of the comics. The writer gave scout the name Jeremy and later confirmed it was entirely because of Jerma. You can google it for detailed info. But it’s canon Jerma even reacted to this news and has videos on UA-cam u can find of him learning about it
I've been playing tf2 for since 2016 I love this game to death and this is the happiest I've been in so long now that valve is finally paying attention to the problems plaguing it for over 2 years
Me the ALPHA M*LE of this comment section and me command RESPECT. Right now me telling you to NOT observe any of me nice cool sweet videos. Instead just look at me awesome good powerful thumbnails. Thank you, dear kyle
I used to play competitive TF2 and have thousands of hours. It's really sad what has happened to the game. Would love a Team Fortress 3 with a huge focus on community servers Also its pretty crazy to me how big Jerma has become. I used to watch him when he was a small TF2 creator and then forgot about him for years. My mind was blown when I saw him at the Streamer Awards
@@wealthybone2990 the source leak was definitely real. Shounic was using the leaked code for a while to make videos all about the internals of tf2. However it wasn’t needed for the bots to happen, because the botting software already existed.
@@2547techno Bots have always been causing issues in one way or another. Bot farms caused the tf2 market collapse and the decline of most trading sites. All they did was find another use for all the bots.
I can't code but to anyone who CAN code: imagine how cool it would be to be known as the person who singlehandedly fixed the decade old tf2 problem. You would be praised and known in the gaming community forever. There would probably even be an emote about you. #savetf2
@Kroko So I actually took up coding solely to combat bots and the unfortunate truth is the cathook script (the script the bots use, yes all of them don’t be fooled they all use the same script including the M4GIC bots, Omega Bots, etc) and the thing is the script is run on Linux systems because VAC straight up doesn’t work on Linux and there’s 0 risk to using the script on Linux computers. The only thing that could be done is to completely rehaul VAC to both work on every system AND be more thorough at actually being an effective anti-cheat system so that it catches these bots. Unfortunately, if I designed or someone else designed a mod to counter this we could either run it on Linux or risk getting VAC banned. Even then if there was a miracle mod the risk is that the mod could be corrupted to be used by bots against people is too great (the bots you see in game were originally open-source nav-mesh bots so you can see how that benign harmless code became the terror it is today). While the best answer is we could develop and submit it to valve it’s still ultimately up to valve.
@@trollparadox9371 people like you are what Valve really needs the most rn, seriously at this point they gotta hire more programmers in hopes of saving TF2, which is a game that I cared about since 2016.
@@trollparadox9371 Or just completely lock out Linux from being able to be used with anything Valve related. IRL hunting people down style because that method is 100% effective with a large enough nuclear arsenal and several countries’ armies, but nobody seems to like that method since they were raised a pacifist. Ugh.
If I had a nickel for every time a game with the shorthand “TF2” got abandoned and overtaken by cheaters, I’d have two nickels, which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice
U can make it more specific by saying a class based game game named tf2 abondoned and overtaken by cheaters made in source and the creators say they love the game and they hear the community but refuse to do anything to fix it
Hey lud, I've got almost 5000 hours in tf2 and play to this day (I was literally on this morning!) it's been such a massive issue and it's been a shame to see how the bots have taken over. The only safe place is community servers at this point the game is unplayable otherwise. Fingers crossed this lights any type of fire under the devs. Ty man.
tf2 doesn’t have permanent devs, and this is not going to “light a fire” under valve. they literally dominate the game distribution market, raking in billions of dollars each year. why would they care about tf2? are you going to boycott steam?
@@joachimsmith9938 Man what a sad pessimistic outlook you have. I'm not asking for tf3 buddy. I'm asking for the bots to be gone. Public outcry can do things like that. I truly am sorry though that you live in such a depressing state of mind though man. For potential reasons why it might "light a fire"? It's the 6th or 7th most played game on steam (and has been for years now), has been free for years now much like CS:GO and makes tons of money off of crates, they have a thriving community of people who genuinely love the game, and the current bot problem is giving them so much negative press that they really HAVE to do something at this point in order to save reputation as a game development studio and not just as a gaming platform. Hope the rest of your day is good man don't be so that guy that shits on things that can only help.
@@sel_gaming8916 1. tf2 does not make valve any substantial amount of money. compare the (inflated) player base to the amount of people who use steam 2. they don't care about their reputation as a game development studio. game development has always been tertiary to valve. as long as people are publishing and buying games off steam then they will continue to make BILLIONS of dollars each year other than to appease the horde of man-children complaining about their 15 year old game, valve really does not have any incentive to keep working on tf2
@@joachimsmith9938 Man you really have such a sad life I truly am sorry that you are such a negative person. But other than your depressing life, let's dispute those claims because you're real dumb :) TF2 Playerbase (bots / inflation still debated there's no definitive answer): ua-cam.com/video/pmdSHm1dEbA/v-deo.html Valve still makes significant money off tf2: Mann VS Machine tickets, boxes, crates, keys, a THRIVING steam marketplace for items that they make a percentage of all sales on...yes literally all sales, although the game is free you have to (now thanks to valve) be a pay to play in order to literally talk (which is dumb but hey it's there now) the revenue is insane and it's literally all profit they have very little loss in their finances. Although they're a private company so you can't directly see their financial statements as much as I wish I could (I'm a finance major with an English minor). To appease the horde of man-children: Absolutely insane to say, "complaining about their 15 year old game". Literally super smash brother #freemelee, CS:GO, GTA 5, Hearthstone, League of Legends, Dota 2, Minecraft. Every single game has an astounding player base or support from fans with it being so old. You're delusional to think that just because a game is old it doesn't have fans who love the game and subsequently should just die. We want the game to live, we can't play the game in the current state, we make some noise in hopes that things can change. Is that so bad? If you're still holding on to "L+Ratio+Dead Game+You're Old" then that's how it be but just let people do their shit and fuck off. :)
I'd LOVE to get into TF2. I've heard nothing but good things about the game itself from people I know who play it, and it just looks like a fun game. I don't really want to play a game that's completely ruined by bots though, which stinks because that's just more people playing Valve's game. I'm sure there are many more people like me, who are just kinda sick of Overwatch and want to play another good hero shooter, and we're more potential revenue for Valve (I know they get enough revenue as it is from Steam as a whole but more cash doesn't hurt them), but we haven't taken the plunge because of the game's bot reputation recently. No game deserves to be reduced to unplayable for years, and since I'd probably check it out if Valve actually fixes the bots, the TF2 community has my full support.
I'm glad there is still people who would like to join in and see what this game is for themselves, I also joined pretty late in about 2018. It has singlehandedly racked up 1100 hours of my life since then and I've met some of my best friends which I play daily with, this game is an absolute masterpiece in everyway and i cannot stress enough how much i recommend it, although the start will be pretty rough, you'll still have fun if you arent a diehard player that gives up because he dies a couple of times. I hope Valve fixes this game and you can start your journey here too, since i haven't met someone that hasn't had one.
If you really do want to get into TF2, depending on region you’d probably be fine. On Australian servers bots are far less frequent, and you can always play on community run servers anyway
TF2 was my first shooter, and where i met a lot of friends. I use to play on my shitty Acer Laptop, on a trackpad. I was a decent Sniper, and I adored the game. I really hope they fix the game. I tried playing it again a year ago and literally couldn't, I left after getting lit on fire and dying repeatedly in the spawn room. hopefully Valve listens and actually helps their community. I doubt they will though, they make so much money, why bother revamping an old games code.
Ludwig's journalism studies are very clearly shown in the Mogul Mail videos A good start, informative middle and generally call to action as the conclusion Several tabs open on his browser from a variety of sources, giving him a solid base to present his findings I am by no means a expert or even a student on journalism and how it's done. But this feels like how it should be. Even for the topics or games in this instance which I have zero knowledge of, it fells like you are getting a complete picture of the topic in question. Love the videos Ludwig, keep making them as long you enjoy making them
Like you said, not only should you care because it greatly impacted so many current creators, but also because you shouldn't want to live in a world where abandoning live service games is viewed as ok. This is like how a judge will pass a harsh sentence the first time a new type of crime is committed. We want to set a precedent that leaving your game in a dilapidated state is not ok.
This makes no sense. Companies can't be obligated to fix games forever when people stop playing them. It's also interesting because of the 60k daily players (which is nothing compared to other games), many of those very same numbers may be bots. If bots are truly overrunning every game, that might mean there are only 20k daily players.
@@suremarc Compared to how many people used to play, that is almost nobody. I get people want it fixed, but the game may as well be dead at this point. Devs don't need to support games forever.
@@pattondurio It’s the same number of players as payday 2, which still has continuous updates and even major reworks of in-game systems, which is a hell of a lot more love than TF2 ever got recently.
As someone with thousands of hours on TF2 and who ultimately quit due to the massive amounts of bots. I just wanted to say thank you lud for making this video
@@grm9495 actually my experience although still bad has been quite nice got pocketed by a medic with kritz as heavy with brass beast and ended the match with I think like 260,000 damage
Hey Lud, in your description the "WATCH ME LIVE" option leads to your twitch channel instead of your youtube channel. Anyways, I love the Mogul Mails, they're really easy for me to get an understanding of something I had previously never heard of or on a topic I know nothing about. Keep up the good work 👍
I like Lud and his House's content so much, but this is next level. I played this game since it's F2P release until a bit after Gun Mettle, which is about the time that Valve just straight up stopped updating the game. So glad Lud is giving a Valve game some attention, because there's so fucking much Valve needs to do. Outside of updating TF2, they still owe us Half Life 3, Portal 3, and Left 4 Dead 3. HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE IN A SEQUEL, BUT NOT A TRILOGY?!?!?
I’ve sunk about 1,000 hours into this game during my late childhood years and now Im starting college. It’s very sad too see a game I grew up with for 10 years be in such an unplayable state right now, nevertheless the tf2 community will stay strong like it always has and let’s hope valve will do something. It’s a testament of time still seeing it top the steam charts everyday.
I've played tf2 since 2008 with my dad, uncle and cousin. Thousands of amazing hours we put into this game. Sadly the game is just borderline unplayable so we all quit last year
as a former avid tf2 gamer, i used to love this game growing up. I used to play it whilst my dad was sitting across watching me play it. Now that the game has been unplayable for the better part of 2 years, i hope that these issues are fixed and that alot of new players will give it a shot. Without the bots, its actually a 10/10 game.
Tf2 is imo the most influential, impactful fps ever made. I think more people would feel the same way if the state of the game wasn't where it is currently. Hopefully, Valve can finally fix it and get back to making updates for it.
Dragon's Dogma is one of the greatest games ever too but I'm not crying because there's no new Dragon's Dogma content. (I mean I do want a sequel lol) Why are TF2 players so clingy? Every other gamer is able to let go of the past. Just not TF2 players.
I've been TF2 for playing for 10 years now and its my favorite game of all time. I really appreciate your bringing more attention to the bot issue, thank you lud #SaveTF2
The botting war is online gaming's pandemic. Every online game is like a country: some close their borders severely, with consequences on playerbase; others search for the bare minimum amount of work they can do to "improve" the problem. The sad reality is, people need to stop thinking about AI "future wars" and start realizing there's a war already right in front of us. Until some serious concerted effort is done to make online gaming more protected, the problem will only get worse. And no, there is no "herd immunity."
Hey Ludwig, thanks for making this video. I've been a part of the TF2 community for many years, having about 4000 hours on the game. I remember watching Jerma's old TF2 videos in middle school. I'm glad you brought some extra attention to the bot problem.
Thank you Lud for bringing even more attention to this issue, you are using your platform for good. Yes it is an old game, I have been playing it for four years, nearly a quarter of my life, and yet never seen a major update. Hopefully not only because of your contributions as well as the contributions from the community as a whole we can change that and TF2 can get the recognition it deserves. Thank you Lud!
CS:GO is also having this issue. One of my favorite game-modes, Flying Scoutsman in War Games category, is full of the same bots. They have a team of bot accounts cheating, kicking new people, etc. Even if you get a brand new server to play, majority of the time you don't even last one full game before a group of bots coms in and kicks everyone out. It is the most annoying thing in the game, especially since the same bot teams will be playing for days on end, and I continue to be connected to the same lobby over several days.
As a dev myself, it is such a struggle to work on a product that is not going to pop off again in terms of revnue. It's hard to work on a product where the code has been leaked, keeping up with constant security patches. It's hard to work on a product that was written for old hardware and lacks the developer friendly tools that have come about recently. We devs love to work on features that makes making updates fun not just bugs. I can understand the loyal community around the game that love the game but it is essentially a closed source distribution without potential for new revenue.
There are efforts to remake the game on source 2, which so far is kinda successful. If valve could continue that, it would eliminate botting, bring a lot of attention to the game from media, as long as they keep the item inventory of tf2 in source 2 as well the game would only flourish. Thing is even though it has potential it just won't be as much of a cash cow as CSGO or DOTA, so they don't care.
@@Kevin-um1nq the port only touches the bare bones of the game, itll be just 2007 tf2. while valve will need to port all the other stuff that has been added through 15 years of development
![[TF2] Why Sniper is Hated](/img/n.gif)
Hi Ludwig! Thank you for using my video to explain the situation, the game is in a pretty bad state lol. Despite the bots, so many players still love the game and want to remember what it was like to at least play the game normally like they used to. We can only hope that Valve stays to their word- or at least tell us they're pulling the plug.
Love your Content #saveTF2
Hey dude! I watched your video on it after seeing this one. Sucks to hear about what's going on with the scene considering the game holds some cherished memories for me (man I fucking loved running around as a scout in mvm). Good luck with y'alls movement!
Very well made video!!! 😃
Ngl. I hate that game but i support the move.
Melee and TF2 truly are kindred spirits, so its awesome to see you raising awareness of issues in our grassroots scene as well. Thanks for making this video!
b4nny the goat
The TF2 goat appears
What the hell
LETS GOOO
most loyal
So we not gonna say anything about this? 0:45
my god
You saw nothing.
Yeah exactly! I was like WTF!!
i dont see anything
context from the earlier stream, iirc QT said she would "send tits" or something like that if ludwig responded, and she ended up sending that
Cheers for highlighting this, it really is a shame such a legendary game got dragged down by neglect and bad actors
I know, I wish valve fixed the bot problem, it is such a shame
They tweeted today saying they'll fix it
@@Adjudicus Doesn't mean they actually will, they've said it multiple times, hopefully this time they actually do though.
@@yxp_ Yeah thats a good point, i just really hope they solve this issue and not let it continue. Most of the tf2 community would obviously love having a big update but the main priority now is just fixing this stupid bug, and if they do I think most people will be satisfied.
I want new maps for Halo 3 dammit. Also a 2007 game.
Before everyone starts acting crazy, know that the actual team that works on tf2 is small and underpaid, their almost all doing it cause they love the game and their not allowed by valve to hire or get volunteers due to internal company issues don’t blame the developing team blame valve.
Actually it is literally just one guy doing it in his free time that we know of. It’s mainly cause higher ups can get people fired or lower their pay if they don’t work on what the higher ups want. I.e higher ups vote negatively over a certain person if they don’t work on software development.
Really its only one guy now, thats sad as shit I remember a few years ago it was at least 4
@@wafflecon6029 is it like that? from my knowledge it was pretty much just that nobody really wanted to code for the game due to how much of spaghetti the code is
@@rubysvnhalo it’s also a bit of that. People do want to work on the game but the the higher ups want to focus on software/hardware development.
@@wafflecon6029 well then. tf2 is software, is it not?
The Voice Actors for TF2 are genuinely some of the most awesome people in the gaming community. I love whoever voiced up (I would imagine it was Scout's VA), but they all are really incredible, and a lot of them still will stream and read out some chat requests in the voice they acted.
I miss Rick May so fucking much though.
The person that messaged valve was the voice actor for medic. I don't know what happened to the Scout Voice Actor, I know he has a youtube channel called ChiliOfDestiny though.
@@seva7500 okay yeah he would have been my second guess. He's also very active with the community.
@@SHMOUSEY86 ehh i think he took a break from the internet. hes not been that active for a year or two
I honestly don't get companies that are just willing to let their games die. Nintendo has zero interest in supporting the melee community, and valve is ok with this just snow balling till it's unplayable. You have a cash cow and you are putting it out into a pasture littered with rattle snakes.
money. that's it. I guess trading and weapon purchases can get there somewhere but if they have to choose between updating an old game in hopes of getting some cents or updating/making something fully new to get those profits as well as game sales. Nintendo has even less reason to do anything
harsh truth is nintendo doesnt need the melee community, nintendo feels they are fine with just being nintendo
I think it's because melee and TF2 aren't actually cash cows. They're beloved and have loyal fanbases, sure, but I'd wager that almost all of Nintendo's revenue comes from new products like the Switch while an even bigger chunk of Valve's comes from Steam
It's a lot of work, it takes money, and it's hard to get developers to work on old derelict games
Valve hasn't been primarily a game development studio for ages now, distribution is their main market and they make way more off steam than they would making a new game or a new update to older games. Plus as much as your nostalgia would leave you to believe, tf2 really never was a popular game barely peaking at 150k players compared to both dota and csgo peaking at 1 million each.
I found Ludwig through Jerma, someone who got me into TF2, and the more I see Ludwig’s videos, the more he is probably one of the best guys on this platform. He doesn’t even play the game, yet here he is spreading the message!
The Mario picture ☠️☠️
Was wondering if anyone commented on it 😂
Hello from the future!
For the first time in the company's history, Valve allowed outside contractors to work on the problem.
Result? Up to 80% of bots were removed, most of their exploits and tricks were removed, and the bots were hard banned from Steam. What few remain are easily kicked.
TF2 is playable. It's even receiving very minor updates! ... we won!!
we did absolutely not win
I don't see it that way at all. It's absurd that they put out a CS2 before a new TF game. Absolutely tragic as well considering how huge of a potential the game could have and how big it could be if Valve just treated TF2 from a development stand point that they do with Dota for example.
Hello from further in the future.
Gentlemen, send the death watches out for repairs.
We're going to need them.
Wow, thank you for the spotlight you über cool dude 😎
Oh hey. It's you! Max Box!
Make more content 🦧
Love your content Max Box, happy to see you here :)
Oh look! A cheater!
@@potato_dbd :p
"email someone working on tf2" idk if the valve hq janitor's email is public info
I actually hope something is done about this, I really hope that the devs REALLY start working on this too.
They JUST tweeted out that the message has been heard and they are working on it. Kind of ironic timing on Ludwig's part
@@zero28ism oh yeah, I know about that, also watched the end of the video, I'm hoping that it isn't just a tweet saying that they'll do something but they don't end up doing it, you know. We can only hope :P
fun fact there are only a couple of people on the tf2 dev team
@@KitchenKnife42 2 to be exact but every thing they tweet has to be seen by valve so I have very strong believes this means alot
it's valve they're not gonna do anything lol
0:46 god damn mario
Man I love TF2 it’s so fun to just hop in a call with friends and play. The bots have made it really hard to play recently though. I’m glad that Valve is working on it.
Allow me to introduce you to uncletopia
@@th4tguybro thank you for this massive discovery. UA-cam archeologists like myself have been searching for this anomaly for years
This game has run its course
@@Jerry_Bean TF2 has not run it's course, but has been pushed off of the road. TF2 has many more years to travel before it ends, it has just been shoved in the mud.
@@Jerry_Bean Maybe for you but there are still thousands of active players. If there’s a major issue with a game that still has a generally devoted fan base then the company that made said game should fix the problem. If they don’t, they just kinda lose out on those customers who got tired of being introduced to a good game, only for it to be run through the mud years later.
0:45 I love how the vast majority of viewers all collectively agreed to not mention this.
I have been playing TF2 since around 2013, The game really really just didnt hit for me anymore due to the bot. I am amazed that TF2 now has a movement like this and we can all hope for bots to be eradicated. A cherry on top would be a new update since its been 1000+ days aswell.
Lol 1000 days, last update was in 2017
nice legoser pfp .w.
1400+ days my guy
ua-cam.com/video/GTHlCk7fEOY/v-deo.html finally it's here.,
@@Kevin-um1nq To be exact, it has been 1681 days since the last major content update to the game
I played TF2 religiously from the day it dropped. I was a day 1 Orange Box purchaser. I quit the game in 2011-2012 at the very height of the hat/item craze and made about $350 selling my TF2 inventory, which was peanuts compared to most of my friends $30,000+ hat filled accounts. Turning the game into an investment opportunity that could, properly executed, pay rent in a Brazilian flavela for 3 years straight killed this game years before the bots did. Valve gave up on TF2 when GO came out. Valve has not been a moral or ethical gaming company since the Orange Box. Valve has been dead for 15 years.
TF2 was such an influential game that everyone just forgot about because valve let it die, i can say with confidence that valorant and overwatch would not have existed without TF2, specifically overwatch. that game was heavily influenced by tf2 and honestly the only reason i played overwatch was because i was a fan of tf2
And I would go on to say that TF2 is objectively better than valo and overwatch.
0:45 true creativity
TF2 was the first game I was obsessed with, back when I was a kid in middle school. I fucking love that game. It's so dumb and goofy, and amazing. I'm so sad that it's being neglected. I understand that there's npot much incentive to keep improving it, but fuck it has so much potential even today, despite how old it is.
based
Same here, my friend and I would spend hours having sniper 1v1s on the Minecraft custom map
2:00 the disrespect... thats AEW and my king Wardlow
I have been a person who played the competitive side a decent amount over the past few years, the community is amazing and the competitive scene is suprisingly healthy with the gamestate. I absolutely want this game to be a resurgence because it truly is a masterpiece.
Thanks for covering this Lud, it means a lot.
"WWE events" Come on Lud, it says AEW right there on the turnbuckle
I was just about to say this lol.
3:46 after earring « this is a problem for a while » 👏👏👏👏👏
Fun Fact: The Scout is named after Jerma, his canon name is Jeremy
proof?
@@Crelter Sauce? soucr? Do you have a source for that statement? Source?
@@Crelter I made it up, matter of fact, I built and entire simulation. To speak of it, I'VE DECIDED THAT ITS TRUE!
@@Crelter it’s in one of the comics. The writer gave scout the name Jeremy and later confirmed it was entirely because of Jerma. You can google it for detailed info.
But it’s canon
Jerma even reacted to this news and has videos on UA-cam u can find of him learning about it
@@Crelter here’s a link /Sote3aIwKJ0
Just paste the letters after the slash with any UA-cam video. Can’t post actual urls in comments
Respect you only did a three take jake this time. Im proud
The Mario caught me off guard.
Fr and basically no one is talking about it either
0:45 what is that mario picture
I've been playing tf2 for since 2016 I love this game to death and this is the happiest I've been in so long now that valve is finally paying attention to the problems plaguing it for over 2 years
Me the ALPHA M*LE of this comment section and me command RESPECT. Right now me telling you to NOT observe any of me nice cool sweet videos. Instead just look at me awesome good powerful thumbnails. Thank you, dear kyle
play cs go
@@jamesnguyen7069 39 burried,
0 found.
@@jamesnguyen7069 play some bitches
I used to play competitive TF2 and have thousands of hours. It's really sad what has happened to the game. Would love a Team Fortress 3 with a huge focus on community servers
Also its pretty crazy to me how big Jerma has become. I used to watch him when he was a small TF2 creator and then forgot about him for years. My mind was blown when I saw him at the Streamer Awards
Ludwig: Let's Talk About TF2
Also Ludwig: *big tiddy mario*
0:45 I love how people with no context are just gonna se that picture go by and never get an answer as to why
to be clear, the botting problem started much before the source code leak but i’m sure there was some increase because of it
bots been around forever with item farming
Heard the source leak wasn't actually real or could cause this.
@@wealthybone2990 the source leak was definitely real. Shounic was using the leaked code for a while to make videos all about the internals of tf2. However it wasn’t needed for the bots to happen, because the botting software already existed.
@@GrimRuler im not talking about the bots themselves, but the problem with them that the game has been facing for the last couple of years
@@2547techno Bots have always been causing issues in one way or another. Bot farms caused the tf2 market collapse and the decline of most trading sites. All they did was find another use for all the bots.
I am so glad to see lud cover this, what a crossover
THANK YOU LUDWIG FOR SUPPORT. Absolute king 👑 #savetf2
Ah yes, 69 likes, shame I had to come along.
👍 #savetf2
I can't code but to anyone who CAN code: imagine how cool it would be to be known as the person who singlehandedly fixed the decade old tf2 problem. You would be praised and known in the gaming community forever. There would probably even be an emote about you. #savetf2
@Kroko So I actually took up coding solely to combat bots and the unfortunate truth is the cathook script (the script the bots use, yes all of them don’t be fooled they all use the same script including the M4GIC bots, Omega Bots, etc) and the thing is the script is run on Linux systems because VAC straight up doesn’t work on Linux and there’s 0 risk to using the script on Linux computers. The only thing that could be done is to completely rehaul VAC to both work on every system AND be more thorough at actually being an effective anti-cheat system so that it catches these bots.
Unfortunately, if I designed or someone else designed a mod to counter this we could either run it on Linux or risk getting VAC banned. Even then if there was a miracle mod the risk is that the mod could be corrupted to be used by bots against people is too great (the bots you see in game were originally open-source nav-mesh bots so you can see how that benign harmless code became the terror it is today). While the best answer is we could develop and submit it to valve it’s still ultimately up to valve.
@@trollparadox9371 ugh... That's completely asinine. Just another cynical vidya company at this point
@@trollparadox9371 people like you are what Valve really needs the most rn, seriously at this point they gotta hire more programmers in hopes of saving TF2, which is a game that I cared about since 2016.
@@trollparadox9371 Or just completely lock out Linux from being able to be used with anything Valve related.
IRL hunting people down style because that method is 100% effective with a large enough nuclear arsenal and several countries’ armies, but nobody seems to like that method since they were raised a pacifist. Ugh.
@@trollparadox9371 On twitter tf2 said that they're working on the problem so hopefully they will fix it soon
If I had a nickel for every time a game with the shorthand “TF2” got abandoned and overtaken by cheaters, I’d have two nickels, which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice
I love Titan Fuckers 2
The lead is aphrodite
Schaffrillas productions reference
U can make it more specific by saying a class based game game named tf2 abondoned and overtaken by cheaters made in source and the creators say they love the game and they hear the community but refuse to do anything to fix it
@@Devon.with.an.i Phineas and Ferb reference*
6:37 yep i remember watching jerma and star play tf2 in like 2012-2013 cant believe he blew up now
Hey lud, I've got almost 5000 hours in tf2 and play to this day (I was literally on this morning!) it's been such a massive issue and it's been a shame to see how the bots have taken over. The only safe place is community servers at this point the game is unplayable otherwise. Fingers crossed this lights any type of fire under the devs. Ty man.
tf2 doesn’t have permanent devs, and this is not going to “light a fire” under valve. they literally dominate the game distribution market, raking in billions of dollars each year. why would they care about tf2? are you going to boycott steam?
@@joachimsmith9938 theres no shame in trying
@@joachimsmith9938 Man what a sad pessimistic outlook you have. I'm not asking for tf3 buddy. I'm asking for the bots to be gone. Public outcry can do things like that. I truly am sorry though that you live in such a depressing state of mind though man.
For potential reasons why it might "light a fire"? It's the 6th or 7th most played game on steam (and has been for years now), has been free for years now much like CS:GO and makes tons of money off of crates, they have a thriving community of people who genuinely love the game, and the current bot problem is giving them so much negative press that they really HAVE to do something at this point in order to save reputation as a game development studio and not just as a gaming platform. Hope the rest of your day is good man don't be so that guy that shits on things that can only help.
@@sel_gaming8916 1. tf2 does not make valve any substantial amount of money. compare the (inflated) player base to the amount of people who use steam
2. they don't care about their reputation as a game development studio. game development has always been tertiary to valve. as long as people are publishing and buying games off steam then they will continue to make BILLIONS of dollars each year
other than to appease the horde of man-children complaining about their 15 year old game, valve really does not have any incentive to keep working on tf2
@@joachimsmith9938 Man you really have such a sad life I truly am sorry that you are such a negative person. But other than your depressing life, let's dispute those claims because you're real dumb :)
TF2 Playerbase (bots / inflation still debated there's no definitive answer): ua-cam.com/video/pmdSHm1dEbA/v-deo.html
Valve still makes significant money off tf2:
Mann VS Machine tickets, boxes, crates, keys, a THRIVING steam marketplace for items that they make a percentage of all sales on...yes literally all sales, although the game is free you have to (now thanks to valve) be a pay to play in order to literally talk (which is dumb but hey it's there now) the revenue is insane and it's literally all profit they have very little loss in their finances. Although they're a private company so you can't directly see their financial statements as much as I wish I could (I'm a finance major with an English minor).
To appease the horde of man-children:
Absolutely insane to say, "complaining about their 15 year old game". Literally super smash brother #freemelee, CS:GO, GTA 5, Hearthstone, League of Legends, Dota 2, Minecraft. Every single game has an astounding player base or support from fans with it being so old. You're delusional to think that just because a game is old it doesn't have fans who love the game and subsequently should just die. We want the game to live, we can't play the game in the current state, we make some noise in hopes that things can change. Is that so bad? If you're still holding on to "L+Ratio+Dead Game+You're Old" then that's how it be but just let people do their shit and fuck off. :)
0:45 whats going on there ludwig
I'd LOVE to get into TF2. I've heard nothing but good things about the game itself from people I know who play it, and it just looks like a fun game. I don't really want to play a game that's completely ruined by bots though, which stinks because that's just more people playing Valve's game. I'm sure there are many more people like me, who are just kinda sick of Overwatch and want to play another good hero shooter, and we're more potential revenue for Valve (I know they get enough revenue as it is from Steam as a whole but more cash doesn't hurt them), but we haven't taken the plunge because of the game's bot reputation recently. No game deserves to be reduced to unplayable for years, and since I'd probably check it out if Valve actually fixes the bots, the TF2 community has my full support.
I'm glad there is still people who would like to join in and see what this game is for themselves, I also joined pretty late in about 2018. It has singlehandedly racked up 1100 hours of my life since then and I've met some of my best friends which I play daily with, this game is an absolute masterpiece in everyway and i cannot stress enough how much i recommend it, although the start will be pretty rough, you'll still have fun if you arent a diehard player that gives up because he dies a couple of times.
I hope Valve fixes this game and you can start your journey here too, since i haven't met someone that hasn't had one.
play community servers lol isnt hard
If you really do want to get into TF2, depending on region you’d probably be fine. On Australian servers bots are far less frequent, and you can always play on community run servers anyway
thankfully community servers are completely devoid of bots, so you can try those
Glad you made the mogul mail channel, loved everything so far
TF2 was my first shooter, and where i met a lot of friends.
I use to play on my shitty Acer Laptop, on a trackpad. I was a decent Sniper, and I adored the game.
I really hope they fix the game. I tried playing it again a year ago and literally couldn't, I left after getting lit on fire and dying repeatedly in the spawn room.
hopefully Valve listens and actually helps their community. I doubt they will though, they make so much money, why bother revamping an old games code.
0:46 this is one of the first videos i've watched of you and I can already tell the humour is immaculate
I’m so happy to see people this big bring light to the situation.
Ludwig's journalism studies are very clearly shown in the Mogul Mail videos
A good start, informative middle and generally call to action as the conclusion
Several tabs open on his browser from a variety of sources, giving him a solid base to present his findings
I am by no means a expert or even a student on journalism and how it's done. But this feels like how it should be. Even for the topics or games in this instance which I have zero knowledge of, it fells like you are getting a complete picture of the topic in question.
Love the videos Ludwig, keep making them as long you enjoy making them
Like you said, not only should you care because it greatly impacted so many current creators, but also because you shouldn't want to live in a world where abandoning live service games is viewed as ok. This is like how a judge will pass a harsh sentence the first time a new type of crime is committed. We want to set a precedent that leaving your game in a dilapidated state is not ok.
This makes no sense. Companies can't be obligated to fix games forever when people stop playing them. It's also interesting because of the 60k daily players (which is nothing compared to other games), many of those very same numbers may be bots. If bots are truly overrunning every game, that might mean there are only 20k daily players.
@@HappyBeeGaming You said no one is playing the game, how can you say in the same breath that there might be 20k daily players?
@@suremarc Compared to how many people used to play, that is almost nobody. I get people want it fixed, but the game may as well be dead at this point. Devs don't need to support games forever.
@@suremarc sounds like a dead game to me
@@pattondurio It’s the same number of players as payday 2, which still has continuous updates and even major reworks of in-game systems, which is a hell of a lot more love than TF2 ever got recently.
Thanks for making this video! We need as much coverage as we can get!
As someone with thousands of hours on TF2 and who ultimately quit due to the massive amounts of bots. I just wanted to say thank you lud for making this video
Community servers are lively
Take a shot every time Ludwig makes a Michael Reeves joke in a Mogul Mail video
man i love the attention tf2 is getting right now but damn I wasn't expecting to hear about it on this channel
My god ludwig even noticed the communtys cry for help
this game used to be such a huge part of my life literally coming from school starting a mvm tour and going to sleep after completing the tour
I still do mvm tour there's no problem with it except those toxic high tour players that kicks you if u don't spam f4
@@grm9495 actually my experience although still bad has been quite nice got pocketed by a medic with kritz as heavy with brass beast and ended the match with I think like 260,000 damage
I appreciate the Mario with huge honkers bit
Man, I played SO much TF2 back in the day. Sad to hear it's been overrun by bots. Thanks for bringing attention to this fantastic game!
That aged well
Hey Lud, in your description the "WATCH ME LIVE" option leads to your twitch channel instead of your youtube channel.
Anyways, I love the Mogul Mails, they're really easy for me to get an understanding of something I had previously never heard of or on a topic I know nothing about. Keep up the good work 👍
omg i so happy that you talk abt this and bring more attention to this problem, THANK YOU!!!
0:45 HUH ?
1:54 got me hurt as a wrestling fan
Poor timing
why?
Ludwin wouldn't make this mistake
@@littlenegrito2568 Valve have just responded saying they are working on improvements
@@BobJones007andahalf that was part of the video
take a shot every time ludwig says "uh"
I like Lud and his House's content so much, but this is next level.
I played this game since it's F2P release until a bit after Gun Mettle, which is about the time that Valve just straight up stopped updating the game.
So glad Lud is giving a Valve game some attention, because there's so fucking much Valve needs to do.
Outside of updating TF2, they still owe us Half Life 3, Portal 3, and Left 4 Dead 3. HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE IN A SEQUEL, BUT NOT A TRILOGY?!?!?
0:46 jumpscare
I’ve sunk about 1,000 hours into this game during my late childhood years and now Im starting college. It’s very sad too see a game I grew up with for 10 years be in such an unplayable state right now, nevertheless the tf2 community will stay strong like it always has and let’s hope valve will do something. It’s a testament of time still seeing it top the steam charts everyday.
damn this video went hard, about to form a parasocial relationship with Ludwig
I've played tf2 since 2008 with my dad, uncle and cousin. Thousands of amazing hours we put into this game. Sadly the game is just borderline unplayable so we all quit last year
Thank you so much for the highlight from your platform, you should consider streaming it with one of your more experienced streamer friends!
Bruh, Lud, it literally says AEW on the turnbuckle lol
0:46 we just going to ignore that lud
as a former avid tf2 gamer, i used to love this game growing up. I used to play it whilst my dad was sitting across watching me play it. Now that the game has been unplayable for the better part of 2 years, i hope that these issues are fixed and that alot of new players will give it a shot. Without the bots, its actually a 10/10 game.
I just noticed that mogul mail is basically a monologue like from a tonight show which is what Ludwig said he wanted to be growing up.
Tf2 is imo the most influential, impactful fps ever made. I think more people would feel the same way if the state of the game wasn't where it is currently. Hopefully, Valve can finally fix it and get back to making updates for it.
Would never expect Ludwig to cover this!
It's a dang shame man. This is easily one of the greatest fps games of all time. It revolutionized fps. It's depressing man. Love the game to death.
i mean it practically Birthed the class based shooter genre, so, yeah, its very impactful
@@azzzertyy Literally did. Overwatch, Paladins, Valorant, all of it wouldn’t be the same (or even exist, probably) without TF2.
Ever hear of team fortress classic?
@@AlejandroW90 it also created lootboxes
Dragon's Dogma is one of the greatest games ever too but I'm not crying because there's no new Dragon's Dogma content. (I mean I do want a sequel lol)
Why are TF2 players so clingy? Every other gamer is able to let go of the past. Just not TF2 players.
'We weren't expecting special forces'
I've been TF2 for playing for 10 years now and its my favorite game of all time. I really appreciate your bringing more attention to the bot issue, thank you lud #SaveTF2
It's like infinity ward going back and getting rid of the modders on COD 4.
The botting war is online gaming's pandemic. Every online game is like a country: some close their borders severely, with consequences on playerbase; others search for the bare minimum amount of work they can do to "improve" the problem. The sad reality is, people need to stop thinking about AI "future wars" and start realizing there's a war already right in front of us. Until some serious concerted effort is done to make online gaming more protected, the problem will only get worse. And no, there is no "herd immunity."
mans really trying to sneak Booba Mario there
Thank you, thank you community this is awesome i hope they do something and we finally get justice i love tf2! #SaveTF2
Ah- you had me fooled for a moment there
fun fact, Medic's last name is Ludwig.
I love TF2 but it feels impossible to play public lobbies. You spend most of the game voting to kick bots. It makes it really hard to enjoy
That bot problem is an issue in Flying Scoutsman in CS:GO as well
Botting is an issue in a lot of games, Lost Ark also has an insanely rampant botting scene with some reporting over 200k bots online at all times
Not only in games, but I see them in all the comment sections I read, and I'm not just talking about UA-cam.
I approve.
"Remember son, dying is gay"
-Soldier
Yes we need more people to talk about it
0:46 okay buddy I see through your fast hands
Hey Ludwig, thanks for making this video. I've been a part of the TF2 community for many years, having about 4000 hours on the game. I remember watching Jerma's old TF2 videos in middle school. I'm glad you brought some extra attention to the bot problem.
Thank you Lud for bringing even more attention to this issue, you are using your platform for good. Yes it is an old game, I have been playing it for four years, nearly a quarter of my life, and yet never seen a major update. Hopefully not only because of your contributions as well as the contributions from the community as a whole we can change that and TF2 can get the recognition it deserves. Thank you Lud!
0:45
Mario honkers
0:46, Ludwig, you cannot
Can we have a second and talk about this part? 0:46
CS:GO is also having this issue. One of my favorite game-modes, Flying Scoutsman in War Games category, is full of the same bots. They have a team of bot accounts cheating, kicking new people, etc. Even if you get a brand new server to play, majority of the time you don't even last one full game before a group of bots coms in and kicks everyone out. It is the most annoying thing in the game, especially since the same bot teams will be playing for days on end, and I continue to be connected to the same lobby over several days.
As a dev myself, it is such a struggle to work on a product that is not going to pop off again in terms of revnue. It's hard to work on a product where the code has been leaked, keeping up with constant security patches. It's hard to work on a product that was written for old hardware and lacks the developer friendly tools that have come about recently. We devs love to work on features that makes making updates fun not just bugs. I can understand the loyal community around the game that love the game but it is essentially a closed source distribution without potential for new revenue.
There are efforts to remake the game on source 2, which so far is kinda successful. If valve could continue that, it would eliminate botting, bring a lot of attention to the game from media, as long as they keep the item inventory of tf2 in source 2 as well the game would only flourish. Thing is even though it has potential it just won't be as much of a cash cow as CSGO or DOTA, so they don't care.
Valve still makes money off of cosmetics
@@Kevin-um1nq the port only touches the bare bones of the game, itll be just 2007 tf2. while valve will need to port all the other stuff that has been added through 15 years of development
0:45 nice mario u got there
0:45 if you didn't watch stream today I am so sorry lmfao
I didn't watch the stream, what's the context?
I just noticed how often Lud stutters lol