Cheating vs Tenpai Dragon! How Does This Ruling Work?
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
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Yugi tub and law tube are the samr (rulings)
DB grinder says this ruling is actually correct and that the master duel ruling is wrong.
This man never getting unbanned
Never and I Dkayed is okay with that.
Konami hates fun
Konami banned fun a long time ago
@@SuperSilver316 for real, they even banned me and my homies from jerking it in the stalls, damn bastards just hate anything fun
He’s banned ? Why?
Now I know why Duel Academy existed in the Anime.
Rulings back in the GX era were not so absurdly complex to justify one tho.
Someone needs to create an academy, I would enroll
Before Yugioh GX, Joey Wheeler has received cheating many times by his opponents. Amazingly he won! That's why I respect him.
This is why the average viewer complains about YGO being too hard and difficult to understand. Even the Judges and casters don’t know what the hell is going on 😂
It's why yugioh is better played in digital format first. It gives you a clear ruling about the cards
This is why duelingbook, omega, MD, etc. are important
@@wrought-ironheroEMIYAmf misplay and make illegal plays constantly on DB
@@wilcisco1159it's why I only play master duel. Let Konami play the game for me . Not to mention all the price issues. 1 grand for a meta deck PAPER LOL
@@zekiel2533Yeah, Legacy of the Duelist and MD helped me get back in the game. I’m fairly well versed in rulings and game states for the most part, but I use digital formats to fill in the gaps for me.
He is my YuGiOh lawyer at this point, good job man
Konami banning this man from the scene was the best butterfly effect they could make.
What happened, when did he got banned and why
@@siruno6024 he got banned for the leaks.
@@siruno6024 he is banned from offical konami events for leaking unreleased products
@@siruno6024 They hate he was leaking content.
Yet his ban was absolutely irrelevant and dumb at the same time
Guys we all know Konami is a SMALL INDIE company
how can we expect THIER OWN CASTERS to understand in depth game mechanics?
TCG isnt konami, TCG bought the license and make their own
@@nasch3391 what are you saying?
The Casters (announcers) are Konami Employees
clueless@@nasch3391
Clueless@@nasch3391
@@nasch3391that's not how that works
Bro you can set an English exam paper on Yu-Gi-Oh cards and less than half of the class would pass😂😂
Pssh, nobody would read the cards. They'd just all perform the first interaction, so they'd continuously choose A in multiple choice questions.
Have you not seen the konami judge exam test. That damn test is harder than a nurses exam for their licensed 😂
Joshua already did this when Rikka won another regional, he explained every single card, every single end board, how to stop it and in the end he put a exam on his viewers, from all the people in chat that took the exam only 20% passed
My brain got 15% bigger after this
Actually
I hate how "as many as possible", sometimes means (min. 1) and sometimes doesn't. Konami really need to overhaul yugioh's rules. I'm a Judge and I'd like to think a compotent one and I hate how convoluted it is sometimes. It's no wonder we constantly see illegal plays like this, even at high level tournaments and multiple judges missing even seemingly obvious things.
That the thing. I disagree here, I think as many as possible doesn't mean a minimum of 1, I think it is resolving correctly here even when not flipping any face down
if they wanted it to mean min 1 it would/should say min 1 on the card (they print that on lots of cards), if its as many as possible 0 is a valid number and it should work
if you flipped 0 cards you still flipped as many as possible therefore the second eff should happen
They need to be better about labeling things that actually mean min 1
I think people are actually reading the original rulings wrong though, they never meant to imply its min 1 (and no where in the rulings does it say that), they said you cannot activate this card on a board that has no possible cards that could be flipped down, not that it has to flip a card down at resolution. Unaffected cards are still cards that mechanically could legally be flipped down (unlike links and tokens) they just are not at resolution. You can dark hole a board of unaffected cards it just does nothing, you can cannon the same board and it gets wiped because the second eff targets player and doesn't actually require a card to flip to resolve. This is no different than how evenly matched still gets rid of a board of unaffected cards but if there is a token it has to stay because mechanically it cannot be banished.
What cards that "As many as possible" do not equal to min.1?
@@GeminiMoto you are not correct. Daruma most flip a minimum of 1 monster in order to send any remaining face to monsters to the grave. Check the database: "When it resolves, apply the 'change as many monsters on the field as possible to face-down Defense Position' effect. If this results in one or more monsters being changed to face-down Defense Position, and there are any face-up monsters on the field, then those monster(s)' controller(s) must 'send all face-up monsters they control to the Graveyard.'"
If daruma says "minimum of 1" and all the card on the field are unaffected by card effect, then daruma can't even be activated. But if it says "as many as possible" the card can still be activated, 0 card being flipped is possible.
Bro was playing double summon event at Master Deul lately alot, that it became a bit of habit to normal summon 2x.
This actually came up at the Kenner Regional. Guy next to me got his board cleared and judge backed up cannon user. I didn’t stick around to see what the head judge ruled, but that’s crazy.
This is one of the reasons (misunderstandings of rules and cheating) why Master Duel has the potential of becoming the main platform of Yu-Gi-Oh in the future. You can play with anyone, almost anywhere, anytime, and for less money. If something is wrong an update can fix it, plus the surveys can keep Konami in check.
Physical Yu-Gi-Oh is the ultimate experience, but...
I said it a long time ago and I say it again. OCG and TCG will disappear due to the inevitable advantages of technology over cardboard, and how people prefer less interaction with others for whatever the reasons (work, parental, distance, time, personality). Cardboard will become something only for collectors.
It will never be the main platform simply because it will never generate more money than the physical format does unless they get insanely greedy with it, which would simply make everyone leave the game and kill it outright.
@@claire6452 , because nothing last forever, never say never, lad/lass. Take for example your environment and think about everything that you thought it wouldn't never change and it did.
Because cardboard is still cheaper to manufacture and distribute, and because it's still popular to play OCG and TCG, the physical game is still leading the game.
But the trends don't lie...
The most popular board games have a digital format too. The distribution of every product is becoming more complicated due to worldwide tensions. There will be a time when deforestation must stop due to contamination reasons = the source of cardboard. People are less interactive with others. There's more introverted personalities which will prefer a screen over a real person. More responsibilities and interests will take time from people to go for locals and alike.
Look beyond the game.
@@Timeater I mean, even if all of that does happen, that's way beyond our lifetime. Also there's more chance that we reach a point where we need to reduce our energy consumption, you know, the electricity you need to play Master Duel, than there is for us to reach a situation where we run out of material to produce cardboard.
@@claire6452 , that's a good argument.
Yes, it may be out of our lifetimes but its very probable that it will happen. There are many ways to produce energy and very few ways to produce cardboard without sacrificing trees. Nations won't stop consuming energy because all of them are looking to grow; it's a dependency. Also, our society and all others are modernizing and innovating each day with technology as a base. So, I believe it's an inevitable fact that physical Yu-Gi-Oh as we know it today either evolves or disappear.
Look what happened to magic the gathering 🤓 but they killed their cardboard 1v1 tournaments when they made commander their go to format instead of standard
Crystal God Tistina has the same kind of two part effect separated by the word "then" where it first tries to flip as many opponent's monsters face down as possible, and if this isn't able flip down any monsters at all for whatever reason the second part of the effect (where you send any opponent's face up cards to the GY) fizzles out and doesn't happen. This is easily tested in Master Duel and is a consistently applied across effects with this sort of grammatical structure. While I wish it was worded in a more intuitive way, I'm actually glad that this interaction exists, as it allows brutally powerful mixed effects like Karma Cannon to exist while still allowing a degree of counterplay if you're smart about how you set up your board. This interaction also means that cards like Book of Eclipse and even Zealantis can force the opponent to use the trap early since they won't have any valid targets to flip over once their effects go off. If you didn't need to flip over any monsters to also send up any face up ones it would make the card incredibly annoying to deal with in decks like Labrynth.
how can judges not catch this? I would felt bullshitted if that would happen against me. Imagine you lose because of shit like this bruh 💀
the other side also doesnt know or forgor about it and if you cant point it out to make a judge call then the play happens
tenpai players did illegal play and judge let it be, wtf indeed
(sending own monsters to gy without eff/procedures are the illegal plays)
The player himself didn't even question it, he just put his monsters straight to the graveyard.
Because this case judges and casters were right.
Card doesnt specify minimum amount of monsters to flip before then.
It was activated with potentially valid target/it could have had a effect when activated.
OP is plain wrong/playing by homebrew instead of rulebook.
@@ANDELE3025 you're dumb as rocks, the first part of Karma Cannon HAS to happen for the second part to take effect. It has to flip at least ONE card face down.
This is why Dr Vellian Crowler has a PhD in dueling! 😂😂
if youre playing against dinos and they use miscellaneousaurus it's the same thing. All of their dinos go to the graveyard since they're unaffected by the first effect. It works that way in the master duel simulator as well. But Dharuma doesn't allow you to activate in master duel if there isn't something you can flip face down... like if there is only link monsters on the field. So not sure if the simulator would of let them activate it in this situation but I get your point here.
I had no idea daruma bahaved this way in MD, this explains a bunch of weird gamestates i had as lab that i wanted to activate daruma and it never popped up the Window to do so
@@PrestusHood yeah i play lab too and I have to remind myself that any monster unaffected by card effects die to daruma. It can be a nice win condition in unique situations that come up more than you think.
If no monster is flipped face-down daruma isn't sending so in MD you can't even activate it if there is no card you can flip.
If its only links/tokens youll get no prompt. If its just unaffected monsters then you can activate. But nothing gets sent if not a single card is flipped. This was showcased in a dino match in one of dkayeds metaweekly videos as well
@@kennypksome people just said whatever they think it is as fact
This is part of why I abandoned TCG for any kind of online version of the game; if an effect is meant to happen it can happen, with the exception of bugs, and colour co-ordinated effects show if you have something in the GY or hand or ED.
So basically Yu-Gi-Oh! is Hearthstone at this point.
this just proves how peak yugioh is, to play it you need to learn the skill to read cards and knowledge to understand conjunctions
Duel academy not sound ridiculous now is it, they laugh at Kaiba when he do
Imagine an anime similar to the duelist kingdom, but instead of "I attack the moon to kill your ocean", it's actual rulings like "too bad mirrorjade is a lingering effect therefore your noir is not unaffected by this"
MD supremacy, throwing into the garbage that 'middle' man.
thx for this video I just started playing again in the last few months and picked this deck up very helpful to have people making stuff like this.
Love what you're doing here. Thank you for your ruling, video. And keep up the good work. I can tell you put a lot of hard work into this. Most people don't get to see that they only get to see the finished product of the fruits of your labor. Stay take care and be incredibly awesome. Just the way you are aint nobody else gonna be you. So you might as well live your life to the best. Your ability that you can and be incredible. Fearless, determined and ready for what lies ahead. Stay safe out there. Be kind to yourself, and those around you. Cause kindness is key to a good life😊❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Ok, I need a deeper explanation on this because no where on the card does it state at least 1 card has to flipped in order for the "then" to activate it SPECIFICALLY says "as many as possible". 0 is still an as many as possible. in English sending no soldiers to the front line can still be considered as many as possible when you have no soldiers. and even more so the action of attempting to flip as many over is still done, just they are unaffected by the flip so if you being uppity about needing to perform some kind of action then it still goes through, the request to flip went through, just wasn't enacted upon. coding goes through the same function, you can call for EITHER weather or not something is flipped OR if the command to flip was given. If Konami is saying this is how this works fine whatever, but that's just horrendous writing and should be changed to "If at least one card was flipped using this effect, then".
It's the same reason why in Yu-Gi-Oh! text, "up to 2" means "1 or 2," not "0, 1, or 2." An effect doing something to 0 cards is treated as the effect not happening at all.
No need for deeper explanation, dkayed is just wrong as far as the TCG is concerned.
Cards with a minimum requirement such as the Numerons with 1 have the (min. 1) written on them. Cards without a minimum requirement such as Morphing Jar, Card Destruction, Kasha, etc dont.
As nothing in the rulebook (and TCG official play document thus Konami themselves as it is a custom made for TCG doc by them) requires a cards effect to actually change the board or post activation game state beyond its new presence to be played, only that it is capable of being played at the time based on its summoning or activation requirements and card type.
@@ANDELE3025Interrupted Kaiju Slumber
@@t3rcx Which by the rules works the same in the TCG as there is no Konami made ruling for it in the TCG side.
thing is daruma actually has a target to attempt to flip face down, thus having legal target, once activated daruma can't flip anything and will reslove as much as possible. sagen summoning doesnt stop a card from activating because it 'will' be unaffected. lets say you have a 5 material nior and a pankertops on feild, daruma is activated and pank is chained to pop daruma because there was a legal target it still resolves. same goes in this situation
Real ones know this happened in a meta weekly
Finally, I was looking for someone else who remembers that episode lol.
was starting to think I dreamt or imagined it happening in one of them.
All those "TCG ONLY PLAY" actually very well implemented, NOICE
Double normal summon is crazy. But when most decks just says special summons for free lot it’s kinda hard to keep track of the summons unless you have nub or something
I feel like most players look over the importance of punctuation of card text. Like I dont think I need conjunctions if the clauses are separated by commas, periods, and semicolons. But now that I realize Im a YGO player among YGO players and I know for a fact none of us know wtf I jus said 😂
I like how Dkayed is including the value of cards being newly added or released. Really helps for those who play in the TCG 👍💯. Also, all of these different rulings is why I prefer MD/OCG over the TCG, even though I still play the TCG 😅😂.
idk why people don't just test this stuff in auto-sims if they have these sort of questions. Outside of very specific rulings unique to paper play, this stuff is usually one to one. And frankly, I WISH we would just adopt how these sorts of situations work in the auto-sims across the board just so there's zero confusion.
This reminds me a lot of a discussion i had a week or two ago regarding Monster Gate under Rivalry.
I was excited to get back into playing meta with tenpai, i am now just reminded how convoluted this game has become with little details in the card texts.
Yugioh = English class 101
Too bad Konami didn't take that class
Tbh this is badly written english if Daruma doesn't send in this situation.
The card clearly state "flip down as many as possible" which can be equal to zero.
The protection effect isn't even on the monster themself but it's applied from another card so Daruma can activate since there are monsters that could be flipped (not link), flip zero cause of the added protection and proceed to send all that wasn't flipped since the condition of "as many as possible" will be fulfilled by the zero which is an acceptable outcome.
If the card would behave only on a minimum one then it SHOULD be explicitely written as " flip down as many as possible (min. 1)".
@@LorisEnsatzukenYou paragraph does not make any sense, and especially your opening sentence about flipping down. "flipping down as many as possible does not mean 0 lol"
@@marioharvey7776 "as many as possible" is an unset quantity and zero can be a valid quantity for it.
"Flipping down as many as possible" can mean zero since it straight mean "flip 0+ monsters face down".
@@LorisEnsatzuken Its not badly written.
There are cards which have (min. 1), including cards which have "as many as possible" text before the prereq minimum in brackets, which Daruma Cannon doesnt have. There are also cards whose "then" has a condition (as in "then, if x, y"), Daruma Cannon only has it for a monster being face up, not for that a monster has to have been flipped. As such by the rules it makes the player send the face ups.
The exceptions in TCG are only if a judge breaks the Official Play rules by adding adds homebrew rulings or the tournament had that ruling as a policy in which case it has to be information accessible on the event info before people even apply to play.
This is solely a issue of too many players not reading the cards nor rules and then relying on unofficial content.
The clause 'as possible' nullifies this argument. As possible implies it doesn't matter if any got flipped down or not. If 'as possible' wasn't in the text, your argument would be correct. This should be the correct ruling, regarding English, but it's not.
Wouldn't it still need to happen tho?
@KorinIta It does. Again, with 'as possible', nothing being flipped down is still the card attempting the action. The action was attempted, then proceed to the 2nd part. Nothing being flipped down is still the 1st part happening.
@l3oogle nothing being flipped facedown means nothing happened, and if it never did anything then the effect that sends does not trigger. Need to flip to send, need to do A to do B
I love the new content lately
"Conjunction junction, what's your function."
A player uses maxx c on a YCS despite the card being banned
Konami Judge: cool interaction👍
very informative video, thank you very much! I would suggest the following as an improvement to make it easier for everyone: keywords like then, when, if, also etc. should be highlighted in the cardtext.
An easy way to clear it up is nibiru effect to summon itself. If the only monster/monsters on field cannot be tributed qnd nib is activated it will attempt to tribute something but due to not doing anything the effect to summon itself from hand fizzles and it stays in hand
well we already found out about this ruling of daruma from the weekly tournament from that labrynth match so thanks dkayed!
This is why I prefer Master Duel
A similar situation is when you activate Souleating Oviraptor's second effect. When you target a token to destroy and you activate the Lost World effect afterwards on chain 1. The lost world effect resolves but Souleating Oviraptor's doesn't.
could there be an issue with the "as possible" part of the effect? if the "as possible" amount was 0, it technically still activated successfully did it not?
Glad to see you guys doing more tcg stuff, the website has such a good design I look forward to it once it’s all built out for tcg and md both
In other words, the only POSSIBLE way to negate Destructive Daruma Karma Cannon, is to use counter traps. Shit, time to bring back my ole trusty cards Seven Tools of the Bandit and Champion's Vigilance.
Acually since the card doesnt sperfic that one has to be put face down you are worng here. The ruling with token and links is since they cant be set face down at all. Where tenpai are leggel targets ti active but become uneffet but they where target and techinically they were flip but become uneffected so the effect of kama canoon so went off and wasnt stop so then all other face monster are sent to gy. Since it doesnt say if a "min of 1 was plave face dien and then".
i love this yoo thank you hell yea
Ah yeah, I'm remember master duel also work like that
If you activate trap but you not flip any monster to face-down after this effect activate, they you NOT SEND any rest of face-up monster on field
But if you manage to face-down any 1 monsters, all of player who have some face-up monsters must send it
I'm forget what master duel video of that, but thanks to that, I know how it work
Does Nibiru says like Danger Monster to do the thing in the first line, but if you cant special summon them you can activate both again, bc the opportunity does not secondary trigger. The pod who prevent that let you Danger discarding faster than Dark World Theme.
Here we go
thank you for this. 🐐
u know what WAYTOODANK
the next new card will be like : while , for , if not
This needs to be fixed people should know the cost and effects of the cards
its not cost and effect
its conjunctions (then / and if you do)
It's not about cost/effect. It's simultaneously vs consequentially
What y'all talking about without the cost of the card it wouldn't be a then if it's either way Let Dkayed tell it
This comment tells me you yourself can't differentiate the cost and effect of cards.
@@nonamedpleb im a turbo player i didn't write this for someone to go against what i post go post your own comment
What makes me doubt it, is: "as much as possible" if it is not possible then the effect of the card continues; it doesn't say that it won't resolve if there are no cards flipped down.
This is just a PSCT update failure. Cards used to say (Min 1), but for whatever reason, they removed that from cards like this. That makes it more confusing and a problem.
It is legal. It says flip as many as possible, which in that case was 0. Then part b goes into effect of sending.
I remember there was someone who entered the battlephase went to main 2 and entered the battlephase again in tournament, this was years ago though
4:18 daruma karma cut 😮 what does that do?
i got a flashback on the old dl days
I learned something today. I thought it had to say “and if you do…” in order for the second part to happen. And “then” means that it doesn’t necessarily need to happen.
@Dkayed can you explain the ruling between bone archfiend and soul resonator where if soul resonator has had imperm used on it, from the hand, and souls effect is now negated, when bone tries to change the level and after the tuner is sent to the grave the soul will still not have its level changed?
Yugioh in a nutshell: "Read & Understand Good, or lose..."
It says “as many as possible” it doesn’t specify min 1
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought of this. The card doesn't specify that anything needs to be flipped down for the second part to happen.
Konami likely needs to come out with a ruling but as written Daruma Cannon, doesn't say change a min 1 to face down, it just says as many as possible is zero is possible it's a perfectly valid result, no reason the THEN has to care about any actually being flipped face down just that as many as possible have been.
With S:P yeah you need to banish the two that is what it says if it said select 2 and banish as many as possible then it would still be valid even with neither of them get actually banished since the effect just wants you to select them and then banish as many as possible so even if none of them get banished it's still valid you did the selecting and did as many as possible.
It didn’t flip, though. When you target something with imperm but it doesn’t get negated the then effect doesn’t happen either. Same thing
@@rastafari2k3 Imperm has a fixed value target 1 face up monster your opponent controls; negate it's effects. it has to do 1.
now lets change that to be like Daruma Cannon, Target 1 face up monster your opponent controls; Negate the effects of as many of the targeted monsters as possible.
That change now makes 0 a valid answer, because you fulfilled the condition of targeting then you fulfilled the condition of negating as many of those targeted cards as possible.
Basically at no point as the effect failed to do what was asked so the THEN should trigger.
It's many many cards with variable values say (min 1) because otherwise 0 is a valid response.
obviously sometimes Konami says ignore the card and do this instead but as written if it says "as possible" then 0 is a valid answer to that statement.
@@skormfuse But 0 is not a valid answer, because the ruling states (and in master duel) that 1 has to be flipped.
@@rastafari2k3 My argument is just as written 0 is a valid answer, other rules elsewhere does bypass that.
and beyond that Konami can just say it does what we want it to because we say.
but really if they want it clear to avoid this issue they should do a Errata that says (Min 1). as the card does not do what it states as written.
but overall you cant really complain about players trying to use cards as written it's down to konami to make it clear.
Also Yu-gi-oh has issues in general with rulings as it can be hard to find official rulings from konami and not how a judge called it at a event.
not to mention some rulings don't match from TCG to OCG, like I did a quick google check to see rulings for this card and you get back unofficial results like yugipedia and even that just have OCG rulings.
and I have no idea what page of the official rule book you would find this specific thing.
so yeah cant really blame them to reading the card and doing what it says as written.
@@rastafari2k3
Then it should say that in the card, or say "and if you did" [flip monsters] to imply the first effect needs to have actually flipped something. Or have the (min. 1) card text. Because otherwise, 0 is a valid number.
Oh wow the yugioh rulings are crazy. In plain english, if it just says "then" instead "then, if a monster(s) is flipped" and the card says "as many as possible", technically you can activate since you can still flip as many as possible (0 in this case) and then perform the next action, but based on what I'm hearing, there seems to be precedent on the ruling that "then" means the previous effect has to actually do something. Then if you try the same in master duel, it also requires the previous effect which means they officially accept this ruling. Feels like we're in court or something.
So for Diabellstar if you have a card that sends banishesnanything thsts suplosed to be sent to the graveyard will her effect not work?
Cheaters!! Double normal summon going unpunished is unbelievable.
Yea but that's on the opponent too for not catching it. It's his responsibility also to maintain proper game state.
Wait what if the monster on the field was already flipped face down, like you have dinos you chain misc and chain tyranno effect to flip opponent field face down, then daruma doesn’t resolve since it can’t flip anything face down
well it never said that it's the opponent's card that have to be flipped, in order for the next effect to take place, but the action was illegal.
So if the field spell was metaversed after activation, then it wouldn’t have been an illegal activation and the 2nd effect should resolve as well.
@@antman7673 well if the field spell was removed the monsters would have been flipped instead.
@@antman7673 I may be wrong but from my understanding it's not the activation that was illegal, it's the way they resolved it that was illegal
the illegal action is not activating daruma, it's sending your own monsters to GY without any proper eff/procedures that allows you to do so
Being unaffected is different from having no monsters on the field or no valid targets like links and tokens
well, that Daruma canon rule is hard to judge to be honest because it was not intentional because no one thought about it, BUT the Tenpai Dragon summon and the second normal summon is on purpose. 1 normal summon per turn is the most basic rule of the game that never got changed for more than 25 years and for the Tenpai dragon, there are A LOT of cards that say you can special summon this and that except himself/Herself, thats also not new but the worst thing is, even the judges didn't say anything to these cheat plays and this kind of things happen so often, Konami really need to do something about this, starting with understand their own ruleings...
It's true, normal summon NEVER changed at all, AND the print "you can only special [insert monster of archetype, example, Rokket] per turn except [example Maganrokket]
How can that player miss the reading on Tenpai Dragon Chundra's effect. I play randomly at times via MD and the Sangen/Tenpai TRULY piqued my interest, but damn that player should have known better.
It being a simple rule doesn't mean the illegal play was done on purpose. It was a long turn, so everyone simply forgot the player already Normal Summoned.
This is likely the same for Daruma. If anyone pointed out the mistake, it is most likely the judges would've ruled correctly.
@@ForcefieldDown you can not compare the Daruma "mistake" with the second normal summon first of all.
The Daruma play was "correct" because the rueling for this specific case is not known obviously.
One normal summon per turn is a basic rule that NEVER changed for more than 25 years and even the judges and both players forgot the normal summon at the same time? what a coincidence, just saying it looked a bit weired to me and I can not imagine forgetting something like my normal summon so on MY personal opinion this was on purpose. Sure that doesn't mean i am right but that's what it looked like for me from my perspective.
@@WhitbyWyrm90 Are you seriously suggesting the judges willingly let one of the players cheat? And it's not them forgetting the rule; of course they know the rule about Normal Summoning. What they forgot was that the player already performed their one Normal Summon, which is an entirely different thing to forget.
The chat was saying that he summoned 2 times. And I remember that one time the casters listened to chat and went to the judges about a potential mistake.
why do we need a phd level of understanding in linguistics just to play this children's card game? this is why yugioh is such a hard game for beginners to get into, only the most pedantic of assholes can play effectively
Daruma Karma Cannon had to be activated with monsters on the field. Its activation condition is the attempt to flip monsters face down. It does not state that monsters have to be flipped face down for the second half of the effect to activate, and it’s not cost either. It’s just an ordering of effects rather than cost and effect.
The "then" is what makes it require a monster be flipped face-down. Every "then" is basically an implicit "then, if the previous part of the effect happened." And it doesn't count as happening if 0 monsters were flipped face-down.
Maybe if Konami would start paying judges with money instead of cards they would at least try to do their job😂
It's insane to think that a deck as strong as purrley or unchained is not even in the top 5. The power level in yugioh is insane
And the powercreep just keeps going. It's why there's a soft rotation when old decks don't get support. They just become obviously unplayable compared to the newest decks.
its literally like a power level inflation or something
Neither are that strong tbf, both of them are very fragile.
To be fair they did get unnecessarily hit on the cusp of a tier 0 deck releasing, at least they are top 5 in md
Far too many archetypes, sorry, decks, receive a power creep. 😏
This man really called Apoullousa Bow of the Goddess, Apollo-USA 😂 😂 😂
😬 that final example with the second normal summon sure does seem like a player realizing they would die to the crack back if they couldn’t put anything on the board…
This is actually really relevant against purely. U can flip down a monster then clear big noir. I will definitely remember this when playing lab.
Cange as many monsters as possible... but if they werent it is okay because activating it required monsters that could be facedown by virtue of their status as monstercards but not link monsters... then since the attempt occured as many as possible includes 0. Eat as many apples as you can. If you can't eat anymore you still have met the criteria.
So then it proceeds. It isn't an if "if one or more were flipped by this effect"
Bless You Dkayed, you’re doing God’s Work here 🎉
TCG judges are a joke
I really dont know how there was a misunderstanding its very simple just read the card. And Its coming in Master Duel??? When DKayed? I can play it in game now instead of locals 😂
For the first clip, he activated Sangen Kaimen, meaning he was in the battle phase and not protected by the field spell.
No because they would have gotten flipped
A token or coin or anything should be used to indicate if the normal summon was already done, just like how it's shown in master duel. Especially in these times when turns can get really long.
judges doing the bare minimum to answer a question lmao
We really need to hire Lawyers for a children’s card game
Tenpai players finna become lawyers when they see that card
Kinda wild how ruling issues like this aren't just a modern yu-gi-oh problem.
Tenpai even if unaffected can still be attempted to be flipped face down by daruma so it was a legal activation and the monsters don't have to be flipped down for the player to send monsters effect
What i don't get is, didn't the player use sp to banish itself and poplar in response to daruma no? Or dkayed just response to the casting error
Bro normal summoned twice because he thought he was playing the master duel trial duel 😂
Konami nor their judges know their own card game... I love it!
Dkayed what happened how comes u wasnt active on twitch today i was looking forward to is it because of the new memento cards or are u goin live when Memento cards come out?
The MW will be on the 9th of may
Karma cannon includes a "then" clause. The first part could not resolve, so the second cannot either. Dunno why Konami gotta make things difficult.
Thing is as written it does resolve, it would a rule not written on the card that would disallow it from being used, since as written it just asks to flip as many as possible THEN.
If I ask you count how many people in the room have mustaches as possible then have some ice-cream even if you come back saying 0 people have mustaches you still counted as many as possible.
so if you go by card text specifically it flipping anything face down is completely optional it doesn't have to because it asks for as many as possible, 0 is a valid number when it comes to possibility, if they want the care to be read another way it needs a errata that ads a (Min 1) to the text.
@@skormfuse okay this makes sense then, i wasnt counting 0 as a number but i see how they judge it now
@skormfuse issue with zero being a number is that precisely why it flipped 0 cards it fizzles. If it doesn't do anything it can't continue with the effect to send
@@thisisiampie6946 whats odd is that konami treats 0 as a number sometimes but othertimes not
@giftedhippos give me some examples because I see people saying that but it doesn't make sense. A card can't do nothing, if no monsters got flipped then the card doesn't proceed with its effects because it says then
How the hell did i get the rulling right on my first try but Konami official judge COULDN'T ?!?! 😂
So is this effectively the same as "When, you can" missing timing while "If, you can" does not? That both are sequential, but "As many as possible, Then," has in implicit (min.1), where "As many as possible, Also/ After that" would not have the built in (min.1)?
Well, it's not really similar to missing the timing. But yes, it's the "then" conjunction which makes it have an implicit "min. 1," and it would work with 0 flipped if it used the "also, after that" conjunction, like you said.
I don't think the problem in Daruma is the 'then' I think the problem is the first part isn't even clear that something has to flip face down. They should add clarification to the card by adding a (Min. 1) to it.
So this is why everyone keeps spamming paper ICANT in your chat everytime there is a irl event, noted!
and this is why we need dkayed as official commentator 🤣
All rulings are subject to the highest judge’s discretion. We don’t have official rulings from Konami via their own website just Wiki pages that can be edited by anyone. So it’s best to know both ways this can be ruled and as the head judge before the start of the event.
The rulings you see on wiki pages are not fan-made, though. They come from the official OCG database; they're not official for the TCG, but they aren't made up by wiki users either.
My issue with this ruling is that the wording of daruma cannon is “flip as many monsters as possible face down.” 0 is still “as many as possible”, as long as the activation was legal, so why does the then clause not resolve?
Got to flip something that's why. If it never did anything the effect will just fizzle
@@thisisiampie6946 that’s not what the card says though.
1) I activate the card
2) I attempt to flip every monster face down
3) those that are unaffected do not flip
4) even if I end up flipping none, I have still flipped “as many monsters as possible” face down
5) move on to the effect after the then clause
If the card wanted monster to be flipped before the then clause, it should read “flip all face up monsters on the field face down, then, blahblahblah” (and in this case all monsters that cannot be flipped facedown will naturally not be flipped) and you avoid using “as many as possible” which conveys a completely different meaning. Or just say “then, if any were flipped facedown from this effect, blahblahblah”
@mougu7444 then what happens if I activate nib? Since you wouldn't know I'll tell you, the same thing that happens with carma cannon happens here. Nib will resolve as much as possible but because no cards were tributed he will no be summoned
@@mougu7444 so what about nib genius?