STOP Using Ice On Injuries!
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
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If you want to read more on this topic check out this blog article: squatuniversity.com/2020/03/23/dont-ice-walk-it-off/
Had a calf sprain a few days ago and several online sources said to ice. I could barely walk on it. Within an hour I was applying Tiger Balm patches to it. Within a couple days it has been feeling better and allowing massage and increasing stretching for recovery.
Try having an accute gout attack in the knees
Let’s see how ice “DELAYS” the healing process
This video is trash and not applicable on every injuries
Squat university is garbage piece of crap
@@russianbeginner643 Did you even read the article? Did he ever say ice is always bad and doesn't has any use? How about you comment in a constructive way and don't leave any "TRASH" coments here!
Hi, have you ever encountered bicep femoris tendon snap on fibula side, when squatting below 90?
This is NOT that simple. There's a time and place for ice and a time and place for movement.
Yea I call bullshit. Excessive swelling can cause further damage
Do you really think after millions of years of evolution, the human body would be dumb enough to damage itself more after an injury due to "excessive swelling" Nature doesn't work that way, the tissues know what they are doing.
We turn back to the basics then after making a full circle. Ice right after the trauma and heat at the recovery.
I agree.
Explain further
Ice reduces inflammation and pain. It has a purpose. Bloodflow speeds healing which is from movement and heat.
It will reduce pain, but blood flow as well. So your body doesn't start repairing because it's being constricted.
@@justme-kr7lx Sometimes too much inflammation can also cause problems. I recently broke my wrist and it swelled up so bad that it was cutting off circulation to my hand. The doctors I saw wanted me to use ice to decrease swelling and allow healing to start
Inflammation is our bodies' protective response to injury. Reducing inflammation is just slowing down our bodies' healing process. Reducing pain in the present is meaningless if it slows your recovery process, which will ultimately cause more total pain.
Treat the injury, not the symptoms caused by the injury. Stopping inflammation is often a bad thing for you.
@@Blobbyo25 too much inflammation can do more harm than good. It has diminishing returns.
@@wigletron2846 absolutely true
Wrong! You're supposed to injure the opposite side so you don't end up with an imbalance
This dude knows what the fuck is up^^
This brother is spittin
I thought you were gonna say you have to injure the other side so you forget about the pain in the original side
“Dammit! Ugh, get me the sledgehammer.”
all injuries stem from a narrow toe box
Disappointed you’re simplifying something to the point where it’s just misinformation.
When is he not doing that? he is the definition of "you're doing it wrong"
Ik he's so annoying
@@gioestrada4652funny he’s literally working with professional lifters and Olympic athletes but he’s the one who’s wrong 😆 get over yourself
@@mathewgonzHe's one guy. Stop being a bootlicker
You said soreness. Then you said injury. These are not the same thing and trainers don't treat them as such.
yes they are different but an injury can have soreness even tho all soreness isnt an injury, so the words can be used together in context.
Me: breaks legs
Homie: "just walk it off bro" 💀
Homie in 2013: I was wrong.
😂😂😂😂
This is completely taken out of context
- Direct applying of ice on injury may not help but cold water and a cool room will definetly help a lot by increasing blood flow
This specifically talks about ice. I
Ok and that’s something different he’s clearly just talking about ice here
Don't you mean decrease?
This is the difference between icing taking ice baths or cold showers. It is like the difference between local/general anaesthetic. You want general, system-wide icing because it increases blood flow, boosts lactic acid clearance and speeds up the repair of muscle fibres.
Local icing just reduces inflammation, which is ultimately a bad thing unless the inflammation is causing other issues.
If we're going to get all technical how are we measuring blood flow? What objective measurement is there of blood flow? And where are the tests that shows something increases or decreases blood flow? (I'm not being rhetorical by the way I'm genuinely curious)
While ice does slow blood flow to an area, it also numbs the pain which is usually a major component of why we ice things, and isn’t a bad thing, as painkillers are usually worse. As for movement, you have to be really careful about making vague statements like you should keep moving on an injury, because if you have a broken foot for example, that makes things 100x worse for you, short term and long term. Many many injuries will need rest to heal, you have to figure out what kind it is first.
My lower back was in severe pain. The doctor advised to use cold then hot therapy. Which worked really well.
I love your videos but I think there may be more to this discussion
cold THEN HOT therapy, i feel like that makes a big difference.
@@sloppy1287 it sure did for me. A ice pack and then hot water bottle. Or a cold bath then a hot shower.
It will depend on the injury for sure, i had something i think it was an herniated disk some time ago (self diagnosed, im not 100% sure) and didn't use anything external for pain threatment, just modify daily activities to reduce pain and time to allow my spine to heal. Worked wonderful too.
I think you are talking about totally different thing than what he is referring to in the video. If i understood correctly your lower back pain wasn't from an accute /traumatic injury?
I agree with the other commentators that the combination of cold + hot might have what helped you the most. Cold still might have its uses if you are looking to decrease swelling & flow of blood for whatever reason.
What you had was probably tight muscles. If you had an actual injury you'd need to strenghten it.
Movement is medicine. I got stabbed in the gut 5x and i danced so much i got to meet my number 1 fan jesus christ
Wth 😂
Yea ice would've fixed that
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂😂😂 I almost fell out my chair reading this shit
😂😂
I just got hip surgery done recently and have not done any icing and I’m recovering quicker than my surgeon expected, thanks to you and Kelly starett !
That's so great to hear!
After my hip surgery I had to live on an ice machine
I got hip surgery and I used ice. I recovered faster than you. Thank you ice.
ice helps numb and reduces bruising. heat and movement to promote blood flow to the area. it’s ok to use ice for its’ purpose. 🤙🏻
Did you hear the video? Or it is more comfortable being close minded?
@@sohibmohamed9548 very open-minded and also science-minded. just one of many papers as an example: Yahalomi, T., Hecht, I., Lagstein, O., Nemet, A., Pe'er, L., Hadad, F., ... & Achiron, A. (2020). Reduction of postintravitreal injection pain using ice: an open-label interventional randomized controlled trial. Retina, 40(7), 1434-1438.
How do the kids say it today? Educate yourself? 🤷🏼♀️
How can you prove it reduces bruising? The blood from broken blood vessels needs to get out and dissipate in order to repair the area . Ice only numbs , it doesn't heal at all .
@@sohibmohamed9548 theirs no way this is a real person behind this comment. Are you hearing yourself? Lmao
@@sohibmohamed9548 did you just listen to yourself or in this case read back what you wrote that is the most hypocritical oxymoronic thing I've ever read in my life
Don’t just say, “okay.” Go look up medical peer reviews and judge for yourself.
Kudos to the doc for rectifying himself.
Too bad I learned it a year before he rectified it 🤣🤣🤣
Topics like this need videos not shorts , to not cause misinformation . Very unproffessional 🗑🤦🏻♂️😑
Damn bro relax 😜
It reduces inflammation but also causes blood vessel constriction preventing nutrients from reaching the damaged areas.
But the application of ice for over 20 minutes followed by its removal results in reflexive vasodilation.
Anything for views huh? I know you know what you're talking about but you only talk about the controversial part because it gets the views. There are so many studies that show that icing speeds up the healing process. Sure there are situations where icing isn't helpful but you just made a huge blanket statement that basically said icing is bad and that's usually not the case. You're gonna have kids watching this thinking they should never ice their injuries. You could made a video on when icing is wrong and that would have actually been helpful. No professional integrity
What studies?
can you name at least one study that suggests icing speeds up recovery? I can't find one
We also say movement while in pain is dangerous so what's correct then?
Unbiased things
Yea I’m confused
he literally said movement without pain
As a sports, medicine physician, I disagree with you. I think extended immobilization is the wrong thing to do and gentle range of motion exercises are a must but ice definitely decreases inflammation and swelling.
Im not not a medicine physician like you but im very active with mauy thai but i agree one time i hurt my knee i didnt use it at all till pain went away when i started trying to get back to practicing it was really hard on my knee
@doctorvinnie what if there’s no visible swelling after an injury but still pain with even simple movements? (For reference, I just tweaked my meniscus and I have 5/10 pain with walking but no swelling)
People will take this out of context. You should ice acute injuries and movement should be done only in pain free range. Icing injuries reduces swelling and pain via the pain gate theory. Next, muscles won't allow you to move them a certain range when they are recently injured (muscle guarding on the protective phase). That's why movement for new injuries should only be done passively (the joint moved is done my another person) or within pain free range. Heck, pain free range should probably be done on the subacute (after a week) phase so that it wouldn't interfere with the healing process.
As a physical therapy student, this is the only correct comment I've seen on here so far.
Wonderfully said my friend.
INJURIES need to be cooled to prevent swelling.
Why do you want to prevent swelling? What does that achieve?
@@Blobbyo25 Reduces pain, irritation, increases range of motion.... so on and so forth. Why don't you google it since you're on this witch doctor ass youtube channel anyway.
@@Blobbyo25swelling is painful, reduces mobility and makes it way harder to properly examine a body part. In case of an open wound, it can make it worse, like an ingrown toenail is caused by the toenail pressing against the flesh and making it swell, which makes it press against the nail even more, thus becoming counter productive and dangerous
this doesn't answer the question of why high level athletes subjectively feel more recovered when they ice versus when they don't
feel better does not equal to faster recovery.
@@Whoareyou127 I never claimed that
Could be a placebo
It numbs pain making a placebo affect that you are healed.
Ice numbs pain receptors making you "feel better"
Its basically a trade off. Do you want less pain and delayed healing or deal with pain and heal faster
I've torn my right ACL (or so I think) and any twisting motion caused unbearable pain. I refused to believe I was crippled and went to the gym and did a fuck ton of leg extensions and leg curls even if it hurt. At home I would do ass to grass bodyweight squats with a pause at the bottom. I shit you not I was pain free literally within 3 days.
Hell yeah man movement is medicine
To anyone who this might help, I was also doing a bunch of good girl bad girl machine as well. Lean forward as much as comfortable as if you're taking a shit. It works the targeted muscles better.
@@tabeshh Was this a complete tear or partial?
@@ImADolphin I have no clue. I sprained my right ankle during a squat walk back. I had bicep tendonitis and ac joint dysfunction. Both got solved by a "stretch everything, strenghten everything" approach.
I hurt my lower back by foam rolling it like a fucking idiot. It's always that same friggen spot on my spine. Ironically the pain ALWAYS disappears after a deadlift session, but it does come back after a couple days of inactivity.
Sorry for talking so much I'm just trying to help. Main takeaway is please try everything and be patient before doing surgery. Stretch everything. Strengthen everything.
Ice reduces inflammation because the blood flow in that area decreases. Which helps the person to feel good. But heat is also needed so the blood flow can increase. Therefore the best is the hot and cold method. At first one should apply some ice and after some time try to move the injured part a bit so the blood flow can increase. During inflammation the vessels dilate of the area where the injury occurred. Then the rbc show amoeboid movement and accumulate on the surface of the skin that's why the redness is visible on the skin. The injured tissue release histamine with the help of mast cells. Histamine is the chemical that triggers the inflammation or allergy in the body. It is the natural defense mechanism of body.
( The above information is only general. One must see the doctor whenever these kind of things occur).
Yes and No. RICE is great for reducing inflammation, swelling, and pain which for some athletic injuries is a life saver, such as a rolled ankle; however, it’s not great for general muscle fatigue and post workout soreness/tightness because the vasoconstriction can limit blood flow to the area which can be healing and increase recovery.
Nah, why do you think reducing swelling and inflammation is a good thing? Maybe in the short term it lets you get back to walking in a shorter time, but long term it decreases the repair and recovery process within your joints themselves.
Inflammation is how the body protects our joints and supplies them with healing factors and nutrients.
@@Blobbyo25 if you have significant swelling and inflammation, you’re going to be in too much pain to do any movement whatsoever to increase blood flow to said area. RICE for 1st 24 hours then warm compresses and simple ROM with light exercise is what I was always taught in nursing school for simple injuries. If it was mainly muscle fatigue or soreness, no point in any RICE method.
It's about reducing metabolic activity of cells within and surrounding the injury site. Damaged tissue triggers and releases a cascade of destructive substances which can affect healthy peripheral tissues close to the injury site.
You don't want to reduce blood flow and with icing you achieve hunting effect which has the net response of no change to blood flow.it decreases blood flow then increases it, flip flopping between the two.
Movement evacuates swelling. But early icing is the only thing that can reduce metabolic activity and fallout damage.
WELL SAID.
So basically you're saying those hard nose coaches that told players to walk it off after sustaining a tib-fib fracture were right huh? Smh
no, you shouldn't walk off injuries nor did this man suggest so.
he just gave you accurate information that ice reduces the immune response as a consequence.
School nurses have been real quiet since this dropped
When treating injuries to avascular (Without blood supply) areas such as ligaments, ice helps alleviate inflammation to help return to pain free movement earlier.
When treating vascular areas such as muscles, ice should be avoided as the inflammation itself is the most important element to promote healing.
There are no areas without blood supply ligaments have less access to blood flow. That’s why they take longer to get stronger than muscles and take longer to heal when injured.
@@richardhill4938 nah my friend (you are right except for 1 small detail), the inner part of the meniscus called the 'white-white zone' doesn't consist of blood supply. When it's injured it rarely ever heals. Just a minor detail to get you to never say never
Stop tryna explain things to "new medicine" idiots
@@richardhill4938 tendons don't have blood supply
@@richardhill4938 really? Even in your meniscus?
This is a major oversimplification and parsing of what was stated
This is silly. Say you roll your ankle, your ankle will start to swell which will limit your movement. If you ice, you will limit the amount of swelling which in turn will get you moving and rehabbing sooner. So yes, movement is medicine but this video frames it in such a binary way of either you ice or don't, it's not that simple. Icing is a tool to help you get to the movement part of your rehab sooner post injury
Icing slows down your body’s inflammatory response. Inflammation is the beginning stages of your body healing itself and when you ice you inhibit this, hence why although I’ve will lower inflammation and pain…it literally slows your bodies healing process…but in all it’s not that simple like u said
lmao if you let it heal properly you won't even need the rehab.
let your body do its thing. anytime we interfere we just make it worse or create new issues.
I wrote a report on the research on icing after injuries in grad school. Yes, ice does reduce swelling if applied prior to when the swelling occurs. The best evidence does not demonstrate that it reduces inflammation in an injury that has already swelled up, and we know very little about whether reducing inflammation is even desirable for healing. Obviously if there is an eminent issue like acute compartment syndrome, less swelling is good, but for a lateral ankle sprain or a torn cruciate ligament, it's my understanding that swelling may be desirable even though it is uncomfortable.
The swelling is your blood vessels dilating so that blood can get the nutrients and immune cells needed for repair at the sight of injury. Applying ice constricts the blood vessels (reduces swelling and pain temporarily) but the downside is that what is needed for healing gets to the injury spot slower, hence the slowing in the healing. Moving increases the blood flow in the area of injury hence speeding healing. Ice should be used to reduce pain and swelling but ultimately movement is what will help speed up recovery. You want to make sure that you don’t do too much though. Also if it’s a major injury, you need to make sure you consult with your doctor before jumping right into moving around.
(Not a doc. Just a bio major. So take this with a grain of salt)
there's no such thing as speeding up recovery. your body knows best. let it rest and only move again when the pain is gone. not hidden with Ice or pain meds.
From what i understand rice is used more specifically for joint and non muscular injuries, but it also helps deal with inflammation thanks to vasoconstriction. There's a reason why ice baths have become such a huge thing. Then you have the hot suana which also helps thanks to vasodialation which helps get blood flowing to the muscles. So it helps wth injuries that dont need ro deal with inflammation.I may be wrong but im pretty sure that's the current consensus. And movement is great for specific injuries. Not all injuries
I red the whole blog and it looks kind of out of context. Looks like he picked the data that supported his believes, but I haven't red all the articles, so I can't say for sure. My surprise was when at the end of the blog he shows alternative ways for recovery which involve buying a neurostimulator (and proceeds to advertise a couple of them) so.... kinda sus...
Nuanced videos don't sell like sensational headlines. This quack clearly values Amazon Affiliate links, video vitality, and engagement far more than conveying clear, concise information in a health educational format.
@@theboathaaa7654 sure, I'm not trying to give him that reputation. In fact he has good quality videos. It was just that in this specific video, the information might be biased and linking a blog where you are recommended some products to buy makes it worse.
If possible heating pads are better because the heat increases blood flow in the area and that causes more nutrients to flow in the effected area therefore causing a faster recovery
Bloodflow causes swelling
To condense the entirety of what was said to this small short is wildly irresponsible
This is from the doctor's own website. As you can see he clearly does NOT recommend that you start immediately with movement to "fix" your injury. He instead suggests that you stop all exercising immediately and go see a professional. And if you use ice, he only advices that you use it in moderation. Only then you can start rehabilitating.
This video is pure misinformation.
My Recommendations
If you are injured, stop exercising immediately. If the pain is severe, if you are unable to move or if you are confused or lose even momentary consciousness, you should be checked to see if you require emergency medical attention. Open wounds should be cleaned and checked. If possible, elevate the injured part to use gravity to help minimize swelling. A person experienced in treating sports injuries should determine that no bones are broken and that movement will not increase damage. If the injury is limited to muscles or other soft tissue, a doctor, trainer or coach may apply a compression bandage. Since applying ice to an injury has been shown to reduce pain, it is acceptable to cool an injured part for short periods soon after the injury occurs. You could apply the ice for up to 10 minutes, remove it for 20 minutes, and repeat the 10 minute application once or twice. There is no reason to apply ice more than six hours after you have injured yourself.
If the injury is severe, follow your doctor’s advice on rehabilitation. With minor injuries, you can usually begin rehabilitation the next day. You can move and use the injured part as long as the movement does not increase the pain and discomfort. Get back to your sport as soon as you can do so without pain.
The logic behind it makes sense. Ice for pain, heat to treat. The quicker you can get fresh blood to the area the faster the it will heal.
unfortunately healing ain't a race it happens in stages and slowly.
bloodflow heals
Yes!
Ever pulled a muscle and kept moving it to get the set done? I have and it makes it exponentially worse the next day. On the other hand if I stop using that strained muscles, take an ibuprofen, and if I wanna be almost non pain existent the next day, apply ice to the muscle that night, its seriously like I almost didn't even strain it. Idk if your getting your info from pure reading studies but I've tried first hand both approaches and yours couldn't be further from the truth in my own personal experience.
ibuprofen doesn't help you heal it only hides the pain making you think you're cured.
there's probably a reason you keep "pulling" the muscle and that's you're constantly in a state of non-healing injury but you're masking the symptoms.
Love your channel. I learned this in chiropractic school 30 years ago. Been telling people this for decades. Thank you for your awesome teaching.
This is why i don't like shorts for health and fitness. Too nuanced a subject to be explored in 60 seconds
there's no nuance. ice and anti inflam drugs reduce healing its really that simple.
the push back is purely out of stubbornness because it's tradition to ice injuries not that there's actually two sides of information ready for debate.
Alright so go for a walk after spraining your ankle
It's appropriate movement to the level of rehabilitation, not movement outside pain and recovery threshold.
He talked about pain free movements. Like slowly moving the ankle without weight on it after a sprain.
@@Un1234l in the first stage of healing, imobilization is best practice. This is basic stuff.
@@intimpulliber7376
Uh, no one argued differently. Stop being pedantic.
@@Un1234l well the dude of the video kinda oversimplified it, so there's a lot of grey area that he just painted all as white
It's counter intuitive for most people. When they're sore from working out. I tell them they need to workout more. Do a day of low intensity training.
i think hes talking about injuries not muscle soreness.
So Ice bath to reduce inflammation, and constrict blood flow which helps squeeze our lactic acid. Then a hot shower to dialate blood vessels and help remove waste products and bring in the workers...
I feel like this isn’t as black and white as you make it seem. I’ve always known ice to decrease the amount of secondary damage in the tissue surrounding an injury. Essentially decreasing the size of the injury site and it’s ability to negatively impact surrounding tissue. Obviously after initial icing you want to get back to moving as soon as you safely can.
I was told by a physio when I had a knee injury (meniscus tear) that ice is used to reduce inflammation *_only in the short term,_* like first few days of recovery. I think when used like that it's fine
Who knows though, it's not my profession so maybe I'm wrong 🤷🏿♂️
source: trust me bro
Are u dumb these are literally scientific studies
Source: the scientific literature.
Why are people do stubborn with accepting that their 8th grave gym teacher was wrong? Actually look into it, icing just reduces inflammation and that's not even a good thing.
@@Blobbyo25 probably depends on how big the injury is. If it barely affects you, you don't need ice, but if you have to go to a doctor because it's so bad, you need it. Although I'm not sure what kind of swelling is the topic, I was lucky I didn't need to get blood drained from my knee. That swelling is actually terrible, because blood accumulates in the joint itself, damaging cartilage tissue
This is definitely a no bs channel, I've learned so much over time.
this channel has lost some credibility with me because ice treatment is the only method that broke the inflammation in my knees
Same
Same.
What cases is ice effective?
Ice helped with the swelling on my ankles and knees many many times.
@@LeonardoReyes-ob7hv it takes longer to heal but it takes away the swelling because blood isn’t flowing as much to the cold area
When I used to skateboard I rolled my right ankle more times than I can count. The best thing was to do one legged calf raises on that rolled ankle and it always healed faster than if I stayed off it and iced it.
if you repeatedly kept injuring your right foot there's probably a weakness in it induced by you mistreating it with ice and exercising before it's healed.
Well Ice isn't wrong because the purpose of ice is reducing swelling. If u leave injuries swolen (💪🏼lol ) then in that case it'll take longer. After that u move it for blood flow.
I use ice for a bit till inflammation goes down around 20-30 min and I think Squat university isn’t completely shtting on ice. As for movement after injury, f’d my back up(soreness in the slightest movement) doing deadlift in bad form when I was a beginner. Did yoga poses, and stretches for 2-4 days straight and my back turned back to normal. Movement is medicine!
15 minutes or you get nerve damage broham. Just do some more research movement and ice is the key to me
It’s definetely not that simple…
There is a time and place for ice and for movement/stretching too. Also elevation, treatment with heat and rest.
And also do u think that all doctors, hospitals, universities and whatever more in a lot of countries are wrong for advicing to ice a wound or a sprain or any kind of injury like that?
Yea, I almost never hear experts advicing about stretching and movement, I think that is dwrong because it is almost always a big factor for (optimal) recovery
In my experience ice works great for chronic injuries. I see the Dr's point on a cute injuries though.
That's cute
*breaks leg*
Awww
I’ve used ice from time to time and movement others. Ice tends to give me relief from the movement. I don’t think we should cut RICE out completely, just use it wisely
I have always stayed away from ice for injuries. What amazes me is the number of doctors, physical therapist and coaches that still emphasize using ice. There was a study done in March of 2021 published in the journal of applied physiology that showed the delay of healing using ice on a cellular level. The body knows how to heal...let it do its job.
A lot of people are arguing against him, and that’s probably because of how he explained it. Ice reduces swelling and recent studies show that swelling (to a point) is better for the body. It allows all the necessary “materials” to reach the injury and heal it. If you ice the injury you are basically making a road block so the “materials” take longer to get where they are going. So ice reduces swelling but it also increases recovery time.
Notes: I simplified this so that it is more easily understandable hopefully. Also, ice can help some recovery processes but mostly just rest and relaxation is the best cure. I hope this makes sense and I’ll try to answer any questions or concerns in the comments if I see them! I hope you have a good day if you’ve read this far!
This comment in by itself is better than the whole video this guy put out.
Ice is an important step, but it shouldn't be the only step towards recovery
So no ice??
Would that mean you want a bit of movement or heat to help heal quicker??
@@PercocetMoe ice is a tool you can use for recovery so it really depends on the situation. If it’s a muscle injury then ice is a bad idea, but if you have really bad swelling because of like a sprain you can use ice to reduce initial swelling and pain. Then you can regain some more movement and use stretching and light use to recover. I hope this helps some!
@@wyatttaber2911 a jam is kinda like a sprain.... so just to confirm since I always jam my finger. They always swell up and you cant use full range of motion. In those instances they always say use RICE, and now im finding out this is a bad thing. Should a person try to let the jam solve itself out and then use ice or just use ice initially then let the finger solve itself later on??
I’ve never heard of anyone icing to heal faster it’s just for intense swelling/elevating discomfort
But as he just said it only leads to more swelling? Correct me if im wrong
@Ben Swelling/inflammation is essentially blood going to the affected area. Healing happens when blood gets there, but swelling is also painful and over-swelling can slow down the healing process. Ice helps to reduce inflammation when it gets too painful/uncomfortable but it does slow down healing since less blood flows to that area when icing. Icing isn’t always bad and it isn’t always good. Depends on the case
If there is a hematoma you have to ice it in order to prevent it from getting worse. When there is an active hematoma, you are actually losing blood.
It doesn't happen to elite athletes, but it does happen to common people.
It's not athletic protocol, but it's a medical protocol to ice an area which has been hurt.
Ice is only useful for the first 48 hours.
To my understanding you should ice the first day after exercise or injury to reduce swelling and soreness. After that you should use heat to increase blood flow to increase healing
Yeh it's fairly common knowledge and understand by most physios, doctors, trainers, athletes, pretty much anymore who understands how the human body works.
I'm kinda embarrassed. I just showed my friend this guy's video on tendinitis and now he's saying some kinda sketch stuff. 😅
What about only applying ice for 20 minutes at a time coupled with the necessary rehab movement excersises?
Ice is only "bad" when used on its own for prolonged periods of time
Thats what some believe but ice can be used for long as you want.
As a former football, basketball, and track athlete, ice has literally helped me recover from everything. This dude is high.
This guy has multiple medical degrees and knows more than u. Stop talkin with your 2.3 gpa
Sauna is better than cold treatment. Or a mix of both is fine.
It might not help heal, but the shock you get in an ice bath feels soo good after once it’s gone. Like a natural relaxer after the ice
Movement is medicine. I love this, just like the saying "Food is medicine".
Ice reduces inflammation, but reduces blood flow. So where is the trade off, i guess
Inflammation is your body healing itself lol, that’s not a trade off, that’s a double negative
@@denali9455 inflammation can be bad though if there’s too much.. so it’s about what you need in your Individual situation
You need cold water not frozen water
@@denali9455 When the body is injured, the body goes into energency mode to first protect and then to heal itself. Often the body over-compensates with those acute injury mechanisms and the over-compensation by the body is often what brings discomfort and can be mitigated by the use of certain measures and modalities. Acute swelling can increase pain over days. Mitigating this may be more important in the immediate short term even if it should delay healing.
Aftar that reduction of blood flow there's a rebound effect that increases the blood flow even more than it was before the cold application. So, applying Ice/cold water to reduce pain and inflamation may slow down the physiologic mechanisms for healing, but might be better for athlete's confort and overall rehab. The mental state of the person is as important as the physiology mechanisms at the end of the process.
Source
-trust me bro
He literally said in the video the guy who coined the term RICE in 1978 admitted in 2013 he was wrong
Please take what this man's saying with a grain of salt as its right for some injuries but not all (As is a lot of medical advice)
Is it right for strains?
But don't use the ice with the salt at the same time.
So what you're telling me, is I didn't become an Olympic athlete because I was icing after practice 🤔
ICE to reduce inflamation on the first hours of the injury, later on you just rest and rehabilitate it.
Ya first 24 to 72 hours is when most of swelling develops
When I sprained my ankle not too long ago it swelled immediately to where I couldn't move it. After 30 minutes of ice I was able to then start moving it. Perhaps there is a middle ground where ice is a useful tool to get you moving?
In my experience, after an initial injury you need to ice it especially if it’s swollen. I sprained both of my ankles really badly about six months ago. I could barely walk and I needed to ice it for the first week and a couple times after I reinjured it. After I was able to move it though I did ankle mobility exercises and I really think that gave me back full use of my ankles.
In a world of extremes the truth is usually somewhere in between. Icing has its uses and so does movement therapy.
He’s kinda right. Ice doesn’t help with swelling or recovery. It just helps to reduce pain. My physiotherapist said you should use ice to reduce pain so that you can start moving again. Ice for small periods of time and immediately start pushing range of motion after taking off the ice
Sometimes it's impossible without ice. So ice is not wrong.
Ice definitely helps with swelling it constricts blood vessels thus reducing blood flow to the area that is already swollen
@@HeyIntegrity That’s the whole point. You use ice when it’s too painful to move without it. It’s not the ice that’s doing the work, but it’s helping you do the work. Use it if you need it but ice alone doesn’t do anything but reduce pain
@@theklosk5821 Technically yes, but that means that as soon as you remove the ice, your blood vessels expand again and the swelling comes back. You can’t keep ice on forever so it’s a temporary fix. Movement is what heals you. Ice helps you move when it’s painful
I’ce increases blood flow and reduces swelling, once the skin cools off it tries to heat up when icing an injury
But. When i cool down an area, say an inflamed patella-tendon (just hypothetical 😅) the body will increase blood flow to that area to heat it up again, right? I thought thats the point of cooling to begin with...
Blood flow will only increase once the ice is removed. While ice is still there, it will only block and suppress blood flow. What ice ‘will’ help tho is in aiding pain/numb the affected area.
@@P0rQpine yeah. Cool down and remove. Thats what i meant.
In german we dont say ice, but cooling, i think negative effects are mostly due ice beeing to cold (0°C, but cooling should be like 15°C), for example wet a compression bandage is surely nothing wrong
I broke my elbow 3 years ago. It did hurt like hell, more than anything else I ever experienced. The doctor said they could not have had an OP on the same day if I did not use ice.
Thinking about lying in a bed with a broken elbow for 2-4 more days gives me anxiety. Use ice if needed!
Walk it off
*Sciatica has entered the chat*
I heard that heat helps blood flow to the area to heal quicker?
Thats correct. Hot showers and heating are better than cold.
Not necessarily, heat can also increase swelling due to dilating blood vessels in the area.
@@theklosk5821 swelling isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It helps with the healing process while also causing pain, making it less likely you move in a way that hurts you.
Wow the combination of this video and these comments and the replies to the comments are just all making me more confused. You guys are all saying different things and I’m beginning to think none of it is correct
@@wat5709 they may not just be flat out wrong. Ice is used to decrease swelling to decrease pain, but swelling is the bodies natural way of both protecting itself from harm through pain and promoting healing. Movement is a very useful way of helping these injured areas heal. If, for example, your swollen area is too painful to move ice can help decrease pain to a level that allows for at least a bit of movement to aid in healing. I don’t think any of these comments are flat out wrong, they are just sharing their insight into how healing is affected by ice, swelling, and movement.
I dont ice my knees. The rest of my body hurts so bad I cannot even feel the pain.
I had chronic pain on my sacroiliac joint due to competitive sports and because of it I stopped exercising totally. Icing and massages didn’t help. The pain and discomfort never went away for nearly 2 years. Until I actually started exercising again. Progressive and less intensive work helped minimise the pain and discomfort and it finally seems like I’m in the road to recovery and back to sports again.
Need a full video on this topic...
Mike Israetel from renaissance periodization made a pretty good video on this subject
Amber turd says ice hides the swelling
I always hated icing and avoided it at every opportunity.
Me too!
Weird cuz I injured my shoulder the other day and then iced it for 2 days and let it rest and now I'm good to go.
You can't consider 1 case to be more viable/trustworthy than an actual study...
@Dimitrije Krstić - Viable like outside the womb viable? You can’t always consider one study to be more reliable than anecdotal evidence. Also, 70% of the studies do not replicate the same results. One study isn’t enough.
used ice for four years and spent another two without. had 1 injury during those 4 years with ice and had 6 injuries in the two years without. keep icing boys
You used ice to treat injuries though. How the hell is not icing related to getting more injuries?
@@onionman8160 ice also helps prevents bigger injuries in the form of muscle recovery and anti-inflammation mainly. even when i wasn’t hurt, if my ankle or knee was sore or feeling a little weird, ice would help that. those things pile up and eventually cause injury
@@onionman8160 think of icing as muscle/joint recovery, and by not doing them, you become more susceptible to injury. simple concept
@@sunrae328 Well sure if it works for you then keep doing it. Studies say otherwise.
There's a time for everything. You want the healing without the pain that comes with swelling. Ice in the immediate with hot therapy afterwards works amazingly.
Ice has its time and place, just as stretching and heating does
not enough reference to back up your claim. theres no ultimate aid knee or joint pain. everything must be integral
I would listen to actual doctors who continue to say use ice
First off doctors can be wrong and are susceptible to biases and programming just like anyone else. Second, people use ice to reduce inflammation (the swelling) in the injured area, but it’s that inflammation that is working to start your natural healing process, that’s why your body does it. Why would you want to eradicate that?
Ice is still great for reducing swelling(which also retards healing and growth). My physical therapist told me that ice-heat treatments are the best, ice to remove swelling then afterwards use a heat pad or move your body to bring blood flow back to the affected area to supply nutrients.
@@user-yy4ux9zf4r yes, that's what I'm saying, not in a paragraph tho
@@richard-fish-monger I didnt mind writing out a paragraph, its been a game changer for my recovery, and I am happy to share.
@@richard-fish-monger you need to learn what cold does and what heat does smh. Cold takes blood away from the area and lowers movement in that area. Heat increases the bloodflow and movement in that area. Ice for swelling to get blood away from the area and heat for muscle pain to reduce stiffness and increase blood flow. A lot of injuries require a combination of both. Regardless, ice isn't for everything and heat is better for the healing process.
You are not completely wrong or completely right on this subject. Thank you for sharing your opinion
OK so how come some of the best orthopedic surgeons in world recommend ice as well?
which surgeons are you talking about?
@@harrybaals2549 All of them from kerlan jobe, not to mention all the pro level physical therapist.
@@jtdatsunspl311 Who is this mysterious "all of them"? Also, Kerlan Jobe is an institute, not an individual. I looked at what some of the people working at said institute have to say about ice, and the only things they really mention are that it can reduce pain (which is true, but doesn't necessarily indicate healing)
@@harrybaals2549 OK more specifically Dr. ronald s. kvitne md. I’ve gotten three surgeries from there and I was always prescribed an ice machine to advance the healing process and reduce inflammation all of which worked wonders :)
@@harrybaals2549 to start the healing process you need to first reduce the information which ice helps greatly!
Picture this. 1 week before my Spartan Beast race. I messed up dropping onto my board while indoor surfing - knee hits the ground with the full weight of my body. Massive painful bruise on a major joint. What did I do? Elevate it when I wasn't moving. When I did move, I never pushed it to the point of feeling pain. No ice, but a shit ton of pineapple for the bromeline. A week later, the bruising and swelling went down enough for me to complete the race without pain (with the help of KT tape)
So much salt in this comment section only because this updated information on the subject is new to them. He’s even cited his information in the video; he’s a researcher.
Ice compression is good after leg surgery to stop stiffness and sprain which allows movement and mobility so you can exercise because when you have pain you often tend to move your leg to find that comfortness due to swelling not injury
So let me get this straight, if there is a contusion, sprain, strain, or tear with swelling we should move as fast as possible?
I'm fine breaking with whatever orthodoxy but without an actual recommendation to substitute it with this just sounds like bro science
I mean it’s a short so there’s missing context. In the first 24 to 48 hours ice can be helpful if the amount of swelling will add to the damage to the area. There’s a bunch away is that can happen that we don’t need to get into. For any of the things you listed, in a tear is on the continuum of sprains and strains, movement in the first week will certainly help with healing! It doesn’t mean you have full range of motion or full weight-bearing abilities but you do want to get the fibres pulling in the direction they are going to heal as early as possible. Know if you have a complete tear it might not happen in the first few days Of course but he is absolutely right and this is science-based. Even after the initial swelling, there is growing evidence to say that heat is more productive because it opens up the area to fluid moving in and out. Waste can be removed and healing factors can be brought in. If you want to look up more about this you could probably look into best practises in athletic therapy/current research in that field as well as heat forces ice in fatigue recovery. You see a lot of people taking ice baths but unless they have some systemic inflammation problem, they’ll recover faster if they sit in the heat!
Edit: I just graduated from kinesiology and exercise physiology and study this the last four years of my life. This channel is exceptional in its evidence-based content :)
@@logan2113 thanks. I do appreciate the insights and thoughtful reply. This helps contextualize immensely.
@@chavesa5 No problem! Sorry I can see that I did not edit a single part of that lol I use voice to text and live with my mistakes but I’m glad you were able to understand 😂
No not as fast as possible, but just movement that won't cause you further injury and brings blood and nutrients to the injury, it isn't bro science there is evidence that ice delays the healing process by slowing down the removal of necrotic muscle fibers and slows down the muscle regeneration process, as inflammation is apart of this reconstruction process, which then transition to anti inflammatory stage to help heal the muscle
He specifically said pain free movements. So if you can sprint without pain. Then yeah go do that. But since you probably cant. Your supposed to do as much as possible without pain.
I don't get why the comments are being so silly picking and choosing which words to hear. He didn't say skip the rest, compression, and elevation. He's saying to skip the ice.
It's similar to why you shiver when cold, it's to warm up again. Being excessively cold slows cells / microorganisms down in that area, it's why freeze meat as to slow down bacteria being able to live a multiply on it. And believe it or not, but before something freezes (in this context), it first slows down, something slowed down can also be described as delayed.
He didn't say to not rest, compress, or elevate he said to not slow down your cells in getting to the place and repairing the damage. Yes, in some cases ice to at least somewhat lower the inflammation can be done, as you sometimes see in hospitals they use ice to "reduce the swelling" but they use it to do just that, reduce the swelling if and when it's too much, not use ice for the entirety of the recovery process.
He then added to do any amount of movement that's pain free. If any movement brings pain, then do none. If 6 weeks later you're able to move it 2mm up and down, then do the 2mm up and down as blood being able to circulate aids the self recovery process.
Ice halts inflammation. Inflammation is vital for the healing process so ice delays the healing process. Heat and active recovery is what you should do instead.
Look into it a little more than one 10 second video.
@@Spanky00Cheeks Charles poliquin has been using and preaching heat instead of ice for 30+ years for that specific reason