Hi everyone :) Thanks for stopping by for today's video. With a video like this though, there are just a few things that I wanted to clarify. 1. I'm a huge Dr. Glaucomflecken fan. As a content creator myself, he's someone that I look up to immensely and I don't want anyone to misunderstand the point of me referencing his FM character today. 2. Doctor salaries are extremely variable. The numbers I offer today are based on my experience from Ontario in a relatively ruralish community where there is no shortage of work... Doctors from other provinces will probably report very different experiences and I'm looking forward to hearing more. Also numbers can be lower or higher than what I mention. 3. In any job you're going to find people who love what they do and people that don't. I don't want to discredit what other people are saying on the other side of the debate, but I did want to provide my experiences from someone who is very enthusiastic about the field. 4. Just because I like the profession now, doesn't mean that there still isn't work that needs to be done. As family medicine physicians I hope that we can continue to advocate for our own specialty in the future :) Thanks!
2nd year as an attending family physician in a rural community. Joined a practice with another physician. Since then I am now in solo practice, managing 2 NPs, 40-ish c-sections as primary surgeon (for privileges), 100+ SVDs, nursing home, admit my own adults, pedi hospitalist, & have already responded to a school shooting. To quote Dr. Glaucomflecken "we do the best with what we have, you're welcome to come and help".
Hey, so I’m thinking of applying for family med residency in the US and i have a really strong interest in obstetrics, can you let know if you did a fellowship or any special training to be able to perform SVDs and C sections. I had no idea you could C sections as a family med attending
I do think prestige probably plays more into it than the surgery suggests. I came into medical school with an interest in family medicine, and everyone told me “you worked so hard, you should try for something better.” Overall, people are very influenced by the people around them. I 100% believe that one of the biggest contributors to burnout is people going into a specialty they don’t really love, but because people told them it was right for them.
I would agree Cameron. I phrased the question as "what is the biggest reason why students are choosing not to go into family medicine." I believe that my survey doesn't capture the multifactorial component to it and although prestige might be very important, it simply lost out to other factors. I've heard that exact quote before when I was a student and it always kinda rubbed me the wrong way. The job we end up with is one that we will need to do for many years to come. Burnout is definitely a big part of the equation here so as difficult as it might be, I always advise students to not cave to peer influences and to focus on being the most successful physician that you want to be 🤙
also i dont think FM pay is low. its high! more than enough to live a comfortable life but med students knowing they can get paid even more with other speciality are not able to digest it 😂😂 In the US surgical specialities are competitive cause of mainly PAY and also prestige but for e.g. in South Korea Surgical Residencies go unfilled every year while pm&r, FM, Nero, Internal med are the most competitive. Why? Money. The specialist can open their own clinic and there is no cap as to how much money they can make.
I'm in Family Medicine. I just recently graduated residency in 2021 and am working in a rural clinic. I can say that I am very happy with my field. I have an amazing income (I'll just say it is north of what you mentioned) and I only work 4 days a week, or 32 pt contact hours (no call, no weekends, no hospital, no deliveries). I see anywhere between 16-22 pts per day. So I could not ask for a better work-life balance. I would like to add that when I started searching for jobs mid-residency, I looked coast to coast because I was open to moving pretty much anywhere. Salaries vary a lot depending on where you are at. However, I don't think there is another field where the job opportunities are better. I could literally close my eyes, point my finger on a map of the US, and say "I want to work in this area", and find a job willing to give me an offer (and I was just your average resident/student). Clinics and hospitals across the US are begging for more PCPs, and will pay very well for it. If you want better pay, you just have to look closely at the different pay models that clinics/hospitals use. I found that quality incentive bonuses are awful, because you only get a percentage of your production (maybe 60-80%). Straight production bonuses favor you better; you get what you work for and are not punished because your patient didn't quit smoking etc etc.
Hi Lou :) Thanks so much for sharing with everyone and congrats on your success! I'm glad that you touched on that point - being able to work pretty much anywhere you want as another benefit of family medicine. The same definitely can't be said for all specialties. Best of luck with everything
I wish one day I can be a family physician in Canada, I am an IMG from China, just start to work as an RMT last year, and am prepared for the MCCQE1 and NAC-OSCE. I am also willing to work anywhere just to help become an FM like the MLP-IMG
I am a family physician practicing in US. I am so very happy that I chose this specialty! I make good income, amazing life style, and feel so valued by my patients. I am glad that I chose the right specialty for me.
I am a Brazilian doctor, and I want to do my medical residency in the USA. Is there any way to contact you to talk about Family Medicine? Thank you so much!
Great video! I have always wanted Family Medicine and as I’m finishing my 3rd year rotations I’m even more convinced that that’s the specialty that I want. People who truly want Family Medicine find excitement in every single patient, their families, and communities. For sure not a specialty for everyone, but surely for me.
You are right :) There are a lot of great things about family medicine that you do not get to see until you are there. Best of luck with your rotations
Glad to hear it Matthew :) My residency has been going very well so far and I think that you'll find the same next year. Best of luck with the interviews!
I'm glad that it helped Briana :) I'll definitely keep getting FM related videos out every now and then as I continue to learn more. As you go through medical school, look for mentors that have found a way to be successful in FM. These people are usually very happy to share their strategies with students like yourself. Best of luck with everything!
one of my co-workers DIL is a family medicine doctor in the big city. She easily makes 300K+ a year in the practice she is a partner in. I'd like a family doc like you. You'd listen and care. the one I see, he don't care considering I've asked for a two referrals three or four times now and crickets. I love Dr Glaucomflecken!
Sorry to hear that Jeanette but you're right in that I like many others try to be the best doctor that we can :) I like to think that the majority of us try to help as much as possible. Thank you for sharing the anecdote about your friend and Dr. Glaucomflecken really is the best 😎
I'm about to be an M1 in January and my dream is to own my own family practice. Thank you for keeping my original dream alive for me. I was starting to lean general surgery but felt like I was being forced because of this family medicine stigma that's going around. In short, Thank you.
you’ll probably change your mind 4-5 times during preclerkship and that’s okay. no need to be dead set on a specialty until you submit residency apps fourth year. i would actually encourage you to hold on to your love of family medicine, but still keep an open mind about other options as well
I'm glad to hear that Tweek :) Dream big and speak to others who have done something similar - a lot the seasoned FM docs are more than happy to lend advice to students who are interested. As z g93 correctly mentioned, its not uncommon to flip flop a lot during clerkship and change your mind - explore your options and arrive at whichever specialty is best for you. But definitely don't count out FM already 💪
@@danceguardmusicgirl1 trust me I'm old for an m1. I'm not changing my mind but I appreciate your comment. When you start at my age you need to be sure at the start.
Overworked and underpaid. Thankless job. Here in Australia, there’s been a reduction of 30-40 % in terms of application with the ACRRM and RACGP colleges. We are struggling for doctors in GP practices and rural hospitals.
That's very strange to hear Maximilian - Australia actually has programs that will pay for Canadian family physicians to fly there and work locus positions. Some of these can be quite lucrative and they'll even cover our flight, lodging, food and some other expenses. I haven't looked into the Australian system too much though to be honest so it's definitely an area that I'll research a bit more. Thanks for the input :)
@@nxtgenmd The health system pays so much for locums but not regular staff. That’s one reason why staff docs leave so they could just pick and choose whatever work they want and get paid better.
Fantastic video. Direct from the heart. Reflecting my feelings about family practice. Really appreciate. Building relationships with so many people isn't possible in any other speciality.
Hello Sir. I’m from Mumbai, India. I’m gonna be starting my residency soon in Family Medicine. Family medicine is not known to many people here. And surely it is very underrated since the concept of Family Medicine is just 50 years old.I hope I can reach out to many people and do my best. Best wishes to you.
Exacty! So underrated. I personally feel it’s the most exciting branch. You get to see literally all kinds of patients and have such a great impact on their lives. I joined mbbs only to become a family physician but my colleagues make me wonder all the time if it’s really worth it.
I'm so glad to here that :) I definitely think that following your passion is the best way to go in terms of being successful - especially when you couple that with a good business sense. All the best with the match this coming year!
Thank you soo much for this doc! All through med school, the ONLY specialty that has appealed enough to me is FM! I LOVE relating with people; kinda comes easily to me 😃, so I know I'll have a beautiful FM practice in future. PS; I'm about to take my final exams of med school, and also studying for the mccqe1. Wish me luck!
I totally get what you mean about how feeling like relating to others comes easy to you :) It's a great skill to have in family medicine. Best of luck with everything Betty! You're going to do great on the exam 🔥
I am not in the medical field, just currently very involved as a patient so seeing all of the changes happening with the crisis etc, and even I found this video super interesting
FP's are very important. I love my FP. I have a medical condition and would not be alive today even if it weren't for him. FP's actually care about their patients. Most specialists don't.
Another great video as always! However, i dont agree with your take on the FM pay. Taking on average a family practice that follows either the FFS model or the FHO making 350k, after deducting a 32% overhead fee and taxes ur almost going to end up with 130-150k a year which I do not believe is a feasible pay for any physician. There are also constant provincial funding cuts being imposed on FMs which makes it even more difficult to sustain a consistent salary.
Hey Daniel :) Thanks for leaving this comment and allowing me to expand my thoughts a bit more (I didn't want the financial part of this video to take up too much time). Like many others, I previously placed a lot of emphasis on the 32% overhead number as well as the large tax rates, but let's look into this a bit more. Point #1. All doctors pay taxes. It's an unfortunate reality for many and one of the only guaranteed parts about life. Whether you're a surgeon, an intensivist or a family doctor, the government is going to come knocking on your door. The nice part about owning your own business though is that you get to work with your accountant to depreciate your income as much as possible through business expenses, transportation costs, etc. in an effort to help retain as much money as you legally can. Additionally, most family medicine doctors will incorporate - you sound very well versed in this area, but in case anyone else is reading this, incorporating your income through a medical corporation allows for you to operate under slightly different tax rules and allows for some interesting options when it comes to investing and setting up for retirement. Point #2. Overhead - For family medicine, we're talking staff, rent, autoclave, procedural equipment, etc. Many if not the overwhelming majority of new family doctors are choosing to work in teams these days. This allows you to split the cost of overhead, divide up call and offers some better flexibility with vacations. Now let's say you don't want to run an office, that's also fine :) You can work as a hospitalist, run locums filling in across the province, or just work emerg in a low acuity / rural centre. All of these are minimal overhead positions that fall under family medicine - and there's even more room to grow from there if we get into low risk OB, men's health clinics, weight loss centres, etc. Point #3. In truth 500K is an err on the side of caution on my part. When we come out of school, man y of us are hungry to get to work. I've known people who have topped 500K and have come up as high as 700-800 K (before taxes and expenses albeit) if you really wanted to chase it. These are exceptions though, not rules, so I tend not to talk about them too much. If you're willing to put in the very long hours and take on multiple responsibilities - as well as practice in a geographic area that will benefit you the most, many family doctors that I've spoken with have told me that they are very happy with their income. Having said that, many people don't want to run themselves into the ground chasing a few extra hundred thousand dollars. Unfortunately I can't share specific examples from my preceptors in this video, but in 2 years I am hoping to share some actual numbers with people from my own practice to try and demonstrate that the finances really can be there in family medicine. I like to think that I have a very strong business sense and I'm definitely hungry to work, so it'll be interesting to see what we can do :) This would not be to brag, but hopefully show people how they can be successful as well in a field that I'm passionate about. Finally, I'm glad that you disagree, and I encourage other people to do so as well because I'd like to keep this conversation going. But it's a nuanced discussion, and if you combine smart business sense with a hungry mindset, I think that many people can do well in family medicine in Ontario at the very least. All the best!
I have a friend in the US who does medical billing and collection. Obama care insurance is far worse than the scheme the provinces are suggesting. Obama care insurance has a range of fees for office calls. they complicate matters
@@jeanetteraichel8299 Billing for the US is different that for most Canadian provinces from what I've heard - there's pros and cons to each system but many Canadian family doctors like our system a little bit more from the "working as a doctor standpoint" :)
Ive had a retired family doc bash the canadian healthcare system due to government control and lack of independence. He said its most apparent in FM where everything is now simple protocols any nurse can follow
Hi David, I think there are definitely doctors who are pessimistic about the current system - there are reasons to be in some cases. Many doctors that were trained 40+ years ago often speak of "the good ole' days" of being a family physician. I can't relate to this 😅 but what I can say is that reducing the work of a family physician to monotonous tasks and algorithms is not something that I'd agree with. There are guidelines, protocols, etc. but room for real medicine does still exist depending on where you work and what you do :)
Aha! You should watch Dr.G’s skits on rural medicine! And, of course, the population that the rural PCP encounters- gotta love those farmers, because if they’re coming to see the doc, they’re REALLY sick.
I love his rural FM character 😂 I had to show my preceptor the farmer pain scale one because we know patients like that in our area. "If they didn't finish the fence before coming to see you... we're in trouble 😟"
I posit a question to everyone: I would like to know why prestige matters so much to people in a field that's supposed to be focused on caring for patients. I know many of us choose medicine out of passion, but there are so many who still pursue it as a stepping stone for status. If you choose to go down the path of medicine you have a MD after your name - is that not good enough? Why the obsession over prestige? So what if you worked hard - the path of medicine is a calling; It should be something you would do even if the pay was terrible. The goal of you working hard should be to become a better physician and help alleviate the suffering of our fellow man, not to secure better pay, privilege and status.
I'm glad to hear it Tellis :) I'm hopeful that in the coming years more and more students and doctors from the Canadian system can start sharing their own information as well
Thank u for the boring and prestige part, the specialty is watever u want to make of it, no one owes u any respect, you earn it, be the best in everything you do, thank you
Thank you for this video! I'm considering going into medicine with the hope of doing family medicine part time -- ideally in a private practice. Maybe it's a pipe dream? But I like the idea of being able to treat many different kinds of people in my community for many different things. I'm not interested in prestige; I'm most interested in taking care of my community as best I can. What do you think about doctors going into private practice? Or doing something part time? I'm really committed to having a work-life balance that feels good to me.
The biggest pull for Family Medicine is Dr. G’s influential analysis of the American system as well, because Canada still provides better care for cheaper whereas if you as much catch a cough here in America you go bankrupt. This also applies to doctors.
Great point :) I've done a lot of studying up on the American and Canadian systems and how they differ but unfortunately, there's pros and cons of both. I've heard some doctors describe the Canadian system as "substandard healthcare for everyone" and compared this to the American system where the motto is "the best treatment for the wealthiest people." Surely these are personal opinions, but comparisons between the two systems are very nuanced. At the individual level, everyone's just trying their best with what they have available to them.
@@nxtgenmdI mean, honestly I’d take a certain level of substandard care if I meant I didn’t have to cough up $300 just for the privilege of walking into an ER before even receiving any treatment. One time I went to the ER with a brass wire impaled in the back of my throat. I ended up paying several hundred dollars for eventually performing surgery on myself because they couldn’t get it.
Thank you so much for this! It was super educational and changed my perspective on family medicine as a specialty. I definitely want to consider it as my preferred specialty if and when I apply for the MATCH. (Non-US IMG) 🙏🙏🙏
For me tbh the reason I’m not interested in family Medicine was the pay but hearing that 500k is possible is interesting but you would have to work crazy hours right?
Hey bud, I'm glad to hear It from you. You're not alone in saying that and many students have shared this with me as well. Salaries are very difficult to nail down because so much can change based location, billing model, services offered, patient demographics, etc. 500K Canadian before overhead and taxes demands a full time commitment - 5 days per week minimum and can be seen in community based practices out of southern Ontario in my experience. I've heard conflicting reports out of other provinces so until I'm able to chat with a doctor from BC as an example - I'll try not to speak for them. I had a preceptor tell me once, "if you're not working surgeon hours, then you can't complain about not making surgeon salary." All this to say that if you keep an open eye for opportunity and want to hit the 500K mark (or more), you will. But many people are happy with having their own family and taking home less money :) If salary is your main hangup, please speak with some of your preceptors when on family medicine in medical school. Many of them are very happy to help students navigate this area if you ask respectfully 🤙
The funny thing is that any high paying specialty is going to come with long hours. I don't know any surgeons working part time. 😅 Except maybe Opthalmology lol.
So weird because all the family medicine doctors around me have some sort of speciality or focus. How strange. For instance my family medicine doctor has sports medicine focus. There is another one in thr building who is attached to a weight clinic.
Hi, I really love this video, and I think you broke down family medicine really well. Could you maybe explain what locum is? I've heard and tried to read more about it but I'm honestly really confused, even though it is said to be a pro of family medicine.
locums essentially is just working somewhere temporarily. You can get a locums job working in an ER somewhere or a clinic. Usually it is full time, 5 days a week (40 hours per week) and the job lasts anywhere from 1-6 months. It may be a clinic is looking to fill a spot because someone else left or whatever. They usually pay an set hourly wage, offer health insurance for that time, and may pay for lodging.
Living Lou did a great job breaking it down :) Another nice part of it is that you can do locus in other countries. I've had some Canadian doctor friends that have worked in Australia or Dubai for locums
As a medical student I love family medicine but I also love oncology. Do you think it's possible for me to one day do them both? If so how would you go about accomplishing this?
family medicine is one where you are going to be poor at all I personally think they don't pay enough for things like consultation my doctor is on a FHO... in my opinion the government shouldn't have stopped this and restricted this.
Not so much of a problem where I am in Canada because there are way more patient than doctors - might be worse in the US. I'll take a look at some data and do a video on this in the future :)
Happy that you are passionate about your carrier choice… I do see that physicians assistants and nurse practitioners are becoming more common as there aren’t as many doctors and also are cheaper to hire
Thanks Mae :) That's another great topic for a future video I think, but I'd agree in that I've seen more PAs and NPs in certain areas as well. Our roles are different but by dividing the workload, the hope is that we'll be able to move more efficiently through seeing the growing population
Hi, I'm a fellow FM in Australia. It's interesting the point you make about pay because we have the same stigma and assumptions here too about FM. I wanted to clarify though, 500k is before overheads and tax right? So more like ~300k before tax (after overheads and other expenses)? In Australia, that would be on the higher end (maybe top 10-20% in FM). I think our average/mean is roughly 250k
Hi Steven, nice to meet a fellow FM from the other side of the pond... or multiple oceans in this case :) 500K would be before taxes and overhead - please see one of the other comment threads on this video for a more detailed explanation if you're interested, but 200K per year to run a practice would definitely be a bit much for most doctors in my area. We tend to work with other FM doctors in a group and will split expenses between 1-4 people. Then with taxes, it's a very interesting topic by itself - basically you set up a medical corporation and work with your accountant to pay expenses from the money in your corporation and do whatever you can to depreciate your income to legally retain as much money as you can. You still pay a lot, but its hard to place a number on it. Walking away with 250K after taxes and expenses (if you start with 500K) would be a conservative figure by most estimates. Looking into Canadian tax law would be your best bet to understand more - I'll do a video on it myself in a few years once I've worked it all out 🤙 I have been told that usually, FMs in Ontario will have a higher earning ceiling than in Australia but to be fair, I really don't know much about how Australian taxes and business expenses are set up. Hope this helps!
I’m in at as a lowly cna. Yea pay isn’t that good. Even compared to other cnas in other disciplines make 3-5 bucks more. I can and do more jobs as well as more hours. But for my RN I can be making about the same 3-5 less. It’s still interesting even though I do have a second job.
Maybe the neurosurgeons get all the prestige but everyone on your roster and in your community will look up to you and love you in a way that no other specialty is loved. (People are scared of being silently judged by psychiatrists even if their patients love them too)
Wife scored 268 and chose family medicine because that’s the doctor she wants to be. Not a generalist but a COMPREHENSIVIST (have own practice and do everything: small procedures, Lumps and bumps/derm, pregnancy, mental health and counseling, women’s health, kids, geriatrics and palliative medicine, beauty, pain management, sports medicine and joint injections, aviation and immigration medicals….)
Would family medicine be obsolete ? Im 17 y.o And I want to be a Primary Care phsician. I need it to be viable until 2100, thank you, liked and subbed. Good luck
Family medicine is not going anywhere imo :) Between primary practice, rural emerg, specialized health clinics, low risk OB, surgical assist... etc, many of us are of the opinion that we are only getting busier
Hi Dr.Gianluca @NXTgenMD, I liked your insights on the Family Medicine! I am a Yoga Teacher and now studying Clinical Medical Assistant program, and I was thinking which specialty clinic that I want to work in and my heart says Family Medicine because it is so broad , and I like to listen to people and connect with them. Thank you for your insights!
Hey quick question. How can you use your monitor with all of macs feature while the display of the Mac is open? I thought you have to leave the mac asleep to be able to use all of its features on the monitor?
Have you tried tinkering with the display setting in the system preferences? I'm not entirely sure but my MacBook and monitor are all factory set without any unique setting changes. Goodluck!
@@nxtgenmd Yea just fixed it. Thank you so much. And also best of luck in residency. I’ve been watching you since your video on your application to medical school breakdown and you have been such an inspiration to my commitment to this journey.
@@alirezavaziri8138 Thanks so much! I'm really glad to hear that the videos have been helpful :) Please keep up the hard work and see you around in the future
As always great video. Doc, i want to ask you something, is there any mobility program in canada where i can take transfer to canadian med school, I am medical student from Ukraine. Its difficult time for us. Thank you!
Thank you Faizan :) I'm sorry to hear about everything that has been going on lately and I'm certain that it's elevated the medical school experience to an entirely different level of difficulty for many of you. To the best of my knowledge, it is impossible to transfer into a Canadian medical school from any other medical school. As an example, we are not even allowed to transfer from one school to another in the same Canadian province. Because our healthcare is publicly funded, admissions are very tightly regulated and any Canadian medical student needs to have gone through the Canadian medical school admissions process.
How much do you think an average FM physician can expect to make working 5 days/week like a standard 9-5 job (40 hour weeks) in places like Ontario (not downtown, but at least a suburb where you have family docs working in clinics)? I'm still deciding between psych and FM, and as an IMG with tonnes of debt, I definitely need to be thinking about salary. Going to be applying to both the states and Canada (I'm originally from Ontario), and it just seems like there's way more info for the States than Canada. Thanks for the video!
Hi, I'm just a random FM physician who stumbled across this video late at night lol. I too was once deciding between psych and FM. I like both. Ultimately I went with FM because I figured there is a TON of psych in FM. Most PCPs have their areas of interest and mine being psych, I tend to draw in more psych-related patients. I also liked seeing and treating other conditions and having a nice variety in my day. Also, when the psych cases get too complicated, I can refer out. As far as salary goes, I can speak for the US. Salaries range A LOT depending on location; rural vs urban, coastal, which state, etc. Ranges tend to be between 200k-350k (US dollars). It can be more and can be less. A lot also depends on if you want to do straight outpatient, a mix of hospital and clinic, OB, and how many patients you want to see per day, as well as compensation/bonus models. Lets just say you wanted to work in an fairly urban clinic in the west coast, you're probably looking around 250k (again US dollars). Add another 100k if you're okay with working more rural. I also see a general trend upwards in physician compensation within Family Medicine. So who knows what it'll be up to in 3-5 years.
@@livinglou7140 Oh wow, thank you so much for your reply! I guess I didn't think that I could have opportunities to do psych within FM as well, that's very interesting to me. It's especially worthwhile looking into for me because FM training is 2 years in Canada whereas Psych is 5, so that is a lot of opportunity cost in that as well. I'll have to research into all of that further now. Thanks for taking the time to comment :)
@@gerinimoify Living Lou has hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned :) The general rule is that most specialties tend to earn more in the US. Family is almost breakpoint even from the US and Canada though. Standard full time family doc doing 40-50 hours (I know you said 40 but weeks can be variable if things come up - such is the nature of medicine lol), 400K Canadian should not be a problem where I'm from IF you are maximizing your billing potential. That's a topic for a future video but unfortunately some docs where I'm from do not bill entirely correctly. All the best!
My daughter was in the same quandary as you trying to decide between the two. She had two psychiatrists (one a forensic psychiatrist) really pushing her to go into the specialty as they felt she had a gift for it. However, in speaking with a friend whose husband and son are both family doctors about this - I received message back from her telling me that both of them 'emphatically' urged her to go into FM for this reason: They said a FM doctor's practice would end up being about 30% psychiatry anyways, and she would also be able to practice other types of medicine and have that balance. My friend has always said not to worry about the income as a FM doctor - as they do very well - and neither her husband or son (who was an IMG) are in downtown Toronto. My daughter started her FM residency this July and is really happy she chose this specialty for many reasons, more particularly because she wants to work with the elderly - as she loves this demographic. As an IMG, you will have success applying for FM in Canada - with 5 million Canadians without a family doctor and 1.3 million people expected to be in Canada by 2024. Good luck.
One of the misconceptions that you didn't mention is that the doctors who end up in family medicine are those that are not at the top of their class and had to settle. People tend to forget that everyone that got into med school was measured on exactly the same criteria and abilities.
As someone who's currently interviewing for FM residecy positions, I can say that your comment is huge misconception. Scores on exams aren't everything and don't translate to a great doctor. I did alright in my class percentile and many of my friends that rank much higher are going into family medicine because it's what they want to do. FM is a calling and a decision, not a settlement.
@@Dsquaredforever I think you are agreeing with my comment and the point that I was making about misconceptions around making FM the specialty of choice and I totally agree with yours. Family medicine is definitely a calling and in my opinion, also require quite a number of additional soft skills that no test can ever truly measure nor test scores capture.
@jaechannel1234312234 that's another misconception. While some schools have different standards, people who go to med schools whether it's MD or DO are very high achievers with excellent grades and test scores. Some choose to go to DO because they want the extra MSK training for manipulation. You also have to think about how limited spots there are to medical school in the first place - people apply to both MD and DO and will apply for multiple rounds. This doesn't mean their grades weren't good. If anything it often comes down to extracurriculars and experiences - research, past jobs, etc. that determine their admission over someone else because they both have good grades/scores.
Hey :) don’t know how I missed a comment like this but since this video has gotten a lot of traction of my channel, I wanted to add some points to your comment. 1) “Ending up” in family medicine because you had were judged inferior to your classmates in an academic sense is not how this works in many cases. There is a need for family doctors - so people who applied for a more competitive residency (say ophthalmology - the most competitive program in the country) do have a chance to match into family medicine if they don’t get into their first choice. This happened with at least 1 student in my year who wanted optho and is now a family resident. These applicants were gunning for some of the most competitive programs in the country to begin with - so relatively speaking are some of the brightest people (definitely above the 50% percentile in many cases) in all of medical school. 2) Medical schools in Canada are pass/fail only. We do not write any board exams until after we’ve matched to residency. As a result, there is entirely 0 academic component to your application to residency that would separate you from others. You can watch my other videos that go over my entire application if anybody is interested. You get picked for a residency spot based off of your CV and interview performance in addition to the contacts that you’ve made in certain programs. The fact of the matter is, there are 2 types of family doctors. Those that chose to be here, and those that wanted to do something really competitive and committed themselves to pursuing ^ (insert competitive specialty here) only to be turned down because someone else got the spot. Neither category is a misconception that I forgot to mention but hopefully this clears it up a bit 🤙
My family doc who overworked himself grossed 1.2m before he died at the age of 45 from a heart attack.the money is definitely there if u have a large patient base and put in enough hours. For reference he worked 7days a week 12hrs a day. Another family doc I know owns a 20million dollar commercial building where he had his practice. There's definitely a lot of money in family med if ur not lazy. Another family doc in my neighbourhood owns a 250k Porsche he graduated from the Carribean. Young guy pulling in 670k a year according to Toronto Star billings. The avg family doc in my area is easily doing 450k plus. One thing common between all of them is they just work work work work and spend very minimal time like 5mins or less with each patient. Even when they are 80plus they keep working
Thanks for the anecdote Paramandeep :) I didn't want to share too many of the outlier stories that I've heard (1.2m would be what I consider an outlier) but these people do exist. Personally at 12 hours x 7 days per week, I probably wouldn't be living my best life per se, but I can relate to wanting to work quite a bit myself - especially in the beginning. I think that family medicine is nice because if you want to work, you'll find work. If you'd rather enjoy a better work life balance, then that possibility exists as well. Also real estate investing and such are definitely things that many doctors choose to get involved in
@@nxtgenmd ull definitely make more than enough as a family medicine doc. it's a great choice with only a 2 yr residency. many FM's who are well established and popular in their area are making more than ur avg typical specialist..and yes invest in real estate , ull definitely become a multimillionaire quickly. Lots of the docs I know own real estate commercial buildings and land
@@paramandeepsandhu154 You have to keep in mind that by investing in real estate you also participate in the very industry which is increasingly making housing too expensive for the rest of society. Any physician should know that secure housing is a social determinant of health that is increasingly put at risk by greedy real estate investors focused on becoming rich. I'd think it would be ethically dubious and morally bankrupt for a physician to take active part in the very system which actively worsens the socioeconomic pressures on the people they serve, which increases the rates of homelessness and poverty and which actively contributes to the socioeconomic disparity of society. You make enough money as a physician, why want more?
Hi Kureshi :) Same to you. The USMLE exams are quite different than the MCC from my experience - however, learning about one system does help you prepare for the other system's exams as well. IMGs applying to Canada will not need to write the USMLE exams, but for the states, they will require them. Hope this helps!
Do you believe that the 100k bracket is an appropriate income fro someones who is overworked, has done 10 years of schooling, and has accumulated insane debt? I understand that 100k is still a lot of money, but that doesn't mean it's a feasible compensation relative to what an FM.
@@danielghiasvand9458 ur argument was that they went thru 10 yrs of school they have so much debt. This was ur argument for why doctors should be paid more. But I was reminding u that just because they spent that much time and effort into school doesn't mean they deserve a certain income as other ppl with similar amounts of schooling debt and work make less
If you decide to settle in the Ottawa area, I would like you to he my family doctor. I will subscribe to your channel just to see where you end up practicing.
Hi everyone :) Thanks for stopping by for today's video. With a video like this though, there are just a few things that I wanted to clarify.
1. I'm a huge Dr. Glaucomflecken fan. As a content creator myself, he's someone that I look up to immensely and I don't want anyone to misunderstand the point of me referencing his FM character today.
2. Doctor salaries are extremely variable. The numbers I offer today are based on my experience from Ontario in a relatively ruralish community where there is no shortage of work... Doctors from other provinces will probably report very different experiences and I'm looking forward to hearing more. Also numbers can be lower or higher than what I mention.
3. In any job you're going to find people who love what they do and people that don't. I don't want to discredit what other people are saying on the other side of the debate, but I did want to provide my experiences from someone who is very enthusiastic about the field.
4. Just because I like the profession now, doesn't mean that there still isn't work that needs to be done. As family medicine physicians I hope that we can continue to advocate for our own specialty in the future :)
Thanks!
I would love to see more videos on the pros of FM!
2nd year as an attending family physician in a rural community. Joined a practice with another physician. Since then I am now in solo practice, managing 2 NPs, 40-ish c-sections as primary surgeon (for privileges), 100+ SVDs, nursing home, admit my own adults, pedi hospitalist, & have already responded to a school shooting. To quote Dr. Glaucomflecken "we do the best with what we have, you're welcome to come and help".
Stories like this keep me motivated every day 💪 keep up the amazing work my friend and try to take care of yourself as best as you can
Hey, so I’m thinking of applying for family med residency in the US and i have a really strong interest in obstetrics, can you let know if you did a fellowship or any special training to be able to perform SVDs and C sections. I had no idea you could C sections as a family med attending
@@lalalalalalal123laalal6 my hospital is having me proctored since I'm not fellowship trained.
woww..amazing stuff...
I do think prestige probably plays more into it than the surgery suggests. I came into medical school with an interest in family medicine, and everyone told me “you worked so hard, you should try for something better.” Overall, people are very influenced by the people around them. I 100% believe that one of the biggest contributors to burnout is people going into a specialty they don’t really love, but because people told them it was right for them.
I would agree Cameron. I phrased the question as "what is the biggest reason why students are choosing not to go into family medicine." I believe that my survey doesn't capture the multifactorial component to it and although prestige might be very important, it simply lost out to other factors.
I've heard that exact quote before when I was a student and it always kinda rubbed me the wrong way. The job we end up with is one that we will need to do for many years to come. Burnout is definitely a big part of the equation here so as difficult as it might be, I always advise students to not cave to peer influences and to focus on being the most successful physician that you want to be 🤙
also i dont think FM pay is low. its high! more than enough to live a comfortable life but med students knowing they can get paid even more with other speciality are not able to digest it 😂😂
In the US surgical specialities are competitive cause of mainly PAY and also prestige but for e.g. in South Korea Surgical Residencies go unfilled every year while pm&r, FM, Nero, Internal med are the most competitive. Why? Money. The specialist can open their own clinic and there is no cap as to how much money they can make.
@@joonpark22 the pay is good but you also have to factor in student loans in the US
prestige for who (patients probs have more respect for their fam doc that they know well?)?
I would rebuttal their statement with “I worked so hard to get here so why would I choose a specialty I don’t want to do or I’m not happy with”
I'm in Family Medicine. I just recently graduated residency in 2021 and am working in a rural clinic. I can say that I am very happy with my field. I have an amazing income (I'll just say it is north of what you mentioned) and I only work 4 days a week, or 32 pt contact hours (no call, no weekends, no hospital, no deliveries). I see anywhere between 16-22 pts per day. So I could not ask for a better work-life balance.
I would like to add that when I started searching for jobs mid-residency, I looked coast to coast because I was open to moving pretty much anywhere. Salaries vary a lot depending on where you are at. However, I don't think there is another field where the job opportunities are better. I could literally close my eyes, point my finger on a map of the US, and say "I want to work in this area", and find a job willing to give me an offer (and I was just your average resident/student). Clinics and hospitals across the US are begging for more PCPs, and will pay very well for it.
If you want better pay, you just have to look closely at the different pay models that clinics/hospitals use. I found that quality incentive bonuses are awful, because you only get a percentage of your production (maybe 60-80%). Straight production bonuses favor you better; you get what you work for and are not punished because your patient didn't quit smoking etc etc.
Hi Lou :) Thanks so much for sharing with everyone and congrats on your success! I'm glad that you touched on that point - being able to work pretty much anywhere you want as another benefit of family medicine. The same definitely can't be said for all specialties. Best of luck with everything
How can apply to be Family medicine in Canada ?
Require The MCCQE exam ?
I wish one day I can be a family physician in Canada, I am an IMG from China, just start to work as an RMT last year, and am prepared for the MCCQE1 and NAC-OSCE. I am also willing to work anywhere just to help become an FM like the MLP-IMG
Whats the average fees earned per patient by a family medicine doctor?
I am a family physician practicing in US. I am so very happy that I chose this specialty! I make good income, amazing life style, and feel so valued by my patients. I am glad that I chose the right specialty for me.
Thanks for sharing doc :) glad you’re enjoying it!
I am a Brazilian doctor, and I want to do my medical residency in the USA. Is there any way to contact you to talk about Family Medicine? Thank you so much!
Great video! I have always wanted Family Medicine and as I’m finishing my 3rd year rotations I’m even more convinced that that’s the specialty that I want.
People who truly want Family Medicine find excitement in every single patient, their families, and communities. For sure not a specialty for everyone, but surely for me.
You are right :) There are a lot of great things about family medicine that you do not get to see until you are there. Best of luck with your rotations
Last week my daughter just matched into FM at Mayo Clinic In Minnesota, her top pick. We are so excited for her. Thanks for your video.
Im actually applying family medicine right now! Super excited for my career and everything it holds.
Glad to hear it Matthew :) My residency has been going very well so far and I think that you'll find the same next year. Best of luck with the interviews!
I’m very interested In FM and am so thankful for this video. It’s hard to hear everyone put it down. Thank you for all your insight!
I'm glad that it helped Briana :) I'll definitely keep getting FM related videos out every now and then as I continue to learn more. As you go through medical school, look for mentors that have found a way to be successful in FM. These people are usually very happy to share their strategies with students like yourself. Best of luck with everything!
I used to live in a small town. The local Family Medicine doctors were held in high prestige by the public.
Thank you for your service! You will make a fantastic family physician one day. Relationships indeed matter more than prestige.
Thank you for the encouragement Shiv :) I really appreciate it
one of my co-workers DIL is a family medicine doctor in the big city. She easily makes 300K+ a year in the practice she is a partner in.
I'd like a family doc like you. You'd listen and care. the one I see, he don't care considering I've asked for a two referrals three or four times now and crickets.
I love Dr Glaucomflecken!
Sorry to hear that Jeanette but you're right in that I like many others try to be the best doctor that we can :) I like to think that the majority of us try to help as much as possible. Thank you for sharing the anecdote about your friend and Dr. Glaucomflecken really is the best 😎
I'm about to be an M1 in January and my dream is to own my own family practice. Thank you for keeping my original dream alive for me. I was starting to lean general surgery but felt like I was being forced because of this family medicine stigma that's going around. In short, Thank you.
you’ll probably change your mind 4-5 times during preclerkship and that’s okay. no need to be dead set on a specialty until you submit residency apps fourth year. i would actually encourage you to hold on to your love of family medicine, but still keep an open mind about other options as well
I'm glad to hear that Tweek :) Dream big and speak to others who have done something similar - a lot the seasoned FM docs are more than happy to lend advice to students who are interested. As z g93 correctly mentioned, its not uncommon to flip flop a lot during clerkship and change your mind - explore your options and arrive at whichever specialty is best for you. But definitely don't count out FM already 💪
@@danceguardmusicgirl1 trust me I'm old for an m1. I'm not changing my mind but I appreciate your comment. When you start at my age you need to be sure at the start.
Overworked and underpaid. Thankless job.
Here in Australia, there’s been a reduction of 30-40 % in terms of application with the ACRRM and RACGP colleges.
We are struggling for doctors in GP practices and rural hospitals.
That's very strange to hear Maximilian - Australia actually has programs that will pay for Canadian family physicians to fly there and work locus positions. Some of these can be quite lucrative and they'll even cover our flight, lodging, food and some other expenses. I haven't looked into the Australian system too much though to be honest so it's definitely an area that I'll research a bit more. Thanks for the input :)
@@nxtgenmd The health system pays so much for locums but not regular staff. That’s one reason why staff docs leave so they could just pick and choose whatever work they want and get paid better.
Fantastic video. Direct from the heart. Reflecting my feelings about family practice.
Really appreciate. Building relationships with so many people isn't possible in any other speciality.
Glad to hear it Abhijit :) Best of luck with everything!
Hello Sir. I’m from Mumbai, India.
I’m gonna be starting my residency soon in Family Medicine. Family medicine is not known to many people here. And surely it is very underrated since the concept of Family Medicine is just 50 years old.I hope I can reach out to many people and do my best.
Best wishes to you.
Hi Megha :) It's nice to meet you. I wish you all the best of luck with your residency and for your career afterwards!
Exacty! So underrated. I personally feel it’s the most exciting branch. You get to see literally all kinds of patients and have such a great impact on their lives. I joined mbbs only to become a family physician but my colleagues make me wonder all the time if it’s really worth it.
Thank you so much for this. I'm in my final year and have always wanted to go into family medicine so this was an informative video for me.
I'm so glad to here that :) I definitely think that following your passion is the best way to go in terms of being successful - especially when you couple that with a good business sense. All the best with the match this coming year!
Thank you soo much for this doc!
All through med school, the ONLY specialty that has appealed enough to me is FM! I LOVE relating with people; kinda comes easily to me 😃, so I know I'll have a beautiful FM practice in future.
PS; I'm about to take my final exams of med school, and also studying for the mccqe1. Wish me luck!
I totally get what you mean about how feeling like relating to others comes easy to you :) It's a great skill to have in family medicine. Best of luck with everything Betty! You're going to do great on the exam 🔥
I am not in the medical field, just currently very involved as a patient so seeing all of the changes happening with the crisis etc, and even I found this video super interesting
Thanks for letting me know Justine :) I'm glad that the information was interesting
why is it sometimes i feel like medicine will be the easiest thing to get into, and then other days i feel like it's the hardest thing to get into
FP's are very important. I love my FP. I have a medical condition and would not be alive today even if it weren't for him. FP's actually care about their patients. Most specialists don't.
Another great video as always! However, i dont agree with your take on the FM pay. Taking on average a family practice that follows either the FFS model or the FHO making 350k, after deducting a 32% overhead fee and taxes ur almost going to end up with 130-150k a year which I do not believe is a feasible pay for any physician. There are also constant provincial funding cuts being imposed on FMs which makes it even more difficult to sustain a consistent salary.
Hey Daniel :) Thanks for leaving this comment and allowing me to expand my thoughts a bit more (I didn't want the financial part of this video to take up too much time). Like many others, I previously placed a lot of emphasis on the 32% overhead number as well as the large tax rates, but let's look into this a bit more.
Point #1. All doctors pay taxes. It's an unfortunate reality for many and one of the only guaranteed parts about life. Whether you're a surgeon, an intensivist or a family doctor, the government is going to come knocking on your door. The nice part about owning your own business though is that you get to work with your accountant to depreciate your income as much as possible through business expenses, transportation costs, etc. in an effort to help retain as much money as you legally can. Additionally, most family medicine doctors will incorporate - you sound very well versed in this area, but in case anyone else is reading this, incorporating your income through a medical corporation allows for you to operate under slightly different tax rules and allows for some interesting options when it comes to investing and setting up for retirement.
Point #2. Overhead - For family medicine, we're talking staff, rent, autoclave, procedural equipment, etc. Many if not the overwhelming majority of new family doctors are choosing to work in teams these days. This allows you to split the cost of overhead, divide up call and offers some better flexibility with vacations. Now let's say you don't want to run an office, that's also fine :) You can work as a hospitalist, run locums filling in across the province, or just work emerg in a low acuity / rural centre. All of these are minimal overhead positions that fall under family medicine - and there's even more room to grow from there if we get into low risk OB, men's health clinics, weight loss centres, etc.
Point #3. In truth 500K is an err on the side of caution on my part. When we come out of school, man y of us are hungry to get to work. I've known people who have topped 500K and have come up as high as 700-800 K (before taxes and expenses albeit) if you really wanted to chase it. These are exceptions though, not rules, so I tend not to talk about them too much. If you're willing to put in the very long hours and take on multiple responsibilities - as well as practice in a geographic area that will benefit you the most, many family doctors that I've spoken with have told me that they are very happy with their income. Having said that, many people don't want to run themselves into the ground chasing a few extra hundred thousand dollars.
Unfortunately I can't share specific examples from my preceptors in this video, but in 2 years I am hoping to share some actual numbers with people from my own practice to try and demonstrate that the finances really can be there in family medicine. I like to think that I have a very strong business sense and I'm definitely hungry to work, so it'll be interesting to see what we can do :) This would not be to brag, but hopefully show people how they can be successful as well in a field that I'm passionate about.
Finally, I'm glad that you disagree, and I encourage other people to do so as well because I'd like to keep this conversation going. But it's a nuanced discussion, and if you combine smart business sense with a hungry mindset, I think that many people can do well in family medicine in Ontario at the very least.
All the best!
I have a friend in the US who does medical billing and collection. Obama care insurance is far worse than the scheme the provinces are suggesting. Obama care insurance has a range of fees for office calls. they complicate matters
@@jeanetteraichel8299 Billing for the US is different that for most Canadian provinces from what I've heard - there's pros and cons to each system but many Canadian family doctors like our system a little bit more from the "working as a doctor standpoint" :)
Ive had a retired family doc bash the canadian healthcare system due to government control and lack of independence. He said its most apparent in FM where everything is now simple protocols any nurse can follow
Hi David, I think there are definitely doctors who are pessimistic about the current system - there are reasons to be in some cases. Many doctors that were trained 40+ years ago often speak of "the good ole' days" of being a family physician. I can't relate to this 😅 but what I can say is that reducing the work of a family physician to monotonous tasks and algorithms is not something that I'd agree with. There are guidelines, protocols, etc. but room for real medicine does still exist depending on where you work and what you do :)
Aha! You should watch Dr.G’s skits on rural medicine! And, of course, the population that the rural PCP encounters- gotta love those farmers, because if they’re coming to see the doc, they’re REALLY sick.
I love his rural FM character 😂 I had to show my preceptor the farmer pain scale one because we know patients like that in our area. "If they didn't finish the fence before coming to see you... we're in trouble 😟"
I posit a question to everyone: I would like to know why prestige matters so much to people in a field that's supposed to be focused on caring for patients. I know many of us choose medicine out of passion, but there are so many who still pursue it as a stepping stone for status. If you choose to go down the path of medicine you have a MD after your name - is that not good enough? Why the obsession over prestige? So what if you worked hard - the path of medicine is a calling; It should be something you would do even if the pay was terrible. The goal of you working hard should be to become a better physician and help alleviate the suffering of our fellow man, not to secure better pay, privilege and status.
very excited to learn more about canadian medicine. SND / etc is all US focused, and can't really find a real voice to talk about the differences.
I'm glad to hear it Tellis :) I'm hopeful that in the coming years more and more students and doctors from the Canadian system can start sharing their own information as well
Thank u for the boring and prestige part, the specialty is watever u want to make of it, no one owes u any respect, you earn it, be the best in everything you do, thank you
You’re welcome Funmi :) agreed
Thank you for this video! I'm considering going into medicine with the hope of doing family medicine part time -- ideally in a private practice. Maybe it's a pipe dream? But I like the idea of being able to treat many different kinds of people in my community for many different things. I'm not interested in prestige; I'm most interested in taking care of my community as best I can. What do you think about doctors going into private practice? Or doing something part time? I'm really committed to having a work-life balance that feels good to me.
The biggest pull for Family Medicine is Dr. G’s influential analysis of the American system as well, because Canada still provides better care for cheaper whereas if you as much catch a cough here in America you go bankrupt.
This also applies to doctors.
Great point :) I've done a lot of studying up on the American and Canadian systems and how they differ but unfortunately, there's pros and cons of both. I've heard some doctors describe the Canadian system as "substandard healthcare for everyone" and compared this to the American system where the motto is "the best treatment for the wealthiest people." Surely these are personal opinions, but comparisons between the two systems are very nuanced. At the individual level, everyone's just trying their best with what they have available to them.
@@nxtgenmdI mean, honestly I’d take a certain level of substandard care if I meant I didn’t have to cough up $300 just for the privilege of walking into an ER before even receiving any treatment.
One time I went to the ER with a brass wire impaled in the back of my throat. I ended up paying several hundred dollars for eventually performing surgery on myself because they couldn’t get it.
It makes me so sad that people don't want to get into Family Medicine for any of the reasons you listed. My Family Doctor (in Ontario) is amazing!
Thank you so much for clarifying those point , a decision was made here 😂❤
best of luck with it! :)
Thank you so much for this! It was super educational and changed my perspective on family medicine as a specialty. I definitely want to consider it as my preferred specialty if and when I apply for the MATCH. (Non-US IMG) 🙏🙏🙏
Another excellent video, resonate with all your points again. Thanks for being honest and mature in the way you approach this convo
As always brother, thank you for the support and feedback :)
For me tbh the reason I’m not interested in family Medicine was the pay but hearing that 500k is possible is interesting but you would have to work crazy hours right?
Hey bud, I'm glad to hear It from you. You're not alone in saying that and many students have shared this with me as well. Salaries are very difficult to nail down because so much can change based location, billing model, services offered, patient demographics, etc. 500K Canadian before overhead and taxes demands a full time commitment - 5 days per week minimum and can be seen in community based practices out of southern Ontario in my experience. I've heard conflicting reports out of other provinces so until I'm able to chat with a doctor from BC as an example - I'll try not to speak for them. I had a preceptor tell me once, "if you're not working surgeon hours, then you can't complain about not making surgeon salary." All this to say that if you keep an open eye for opportunity and want to hit the 500K mark (or more), you will. But many people are happy with having their own family and taking home less money :)
If salary is your main hangup, please speak with some of your preceptors when on family medicine in medical school. Many of them are very happy to help students navigate this area if you ask respectfully 🤙
@@nxtgenmd Thanks for the detailed response
The funny thing is that any high paying specialty is going to come with long hours. I don't know any surgeons working part time. 😅 Except maybe Opthalmology lol.
i am a master of dentistry , currently residing in canada since 2020.i. have spouse and 9 yr old kid.
This video opened my eyes to family medicine. Thank you !
I'm very glad to hear that Lov :) Keep and open mind and keep asking questions during your training
So weird because all the family medicine doctors around me have some sort of speciality or focus. How strange. For instance my family medicine doctor has sports medicine focus. There is another one in thr building who is attached to a weight clinic.
Hi, I really love this video, and I think you broke down family medicine really well. Could you maybe explain what locum is? I've heard and tried to read more about it but I'm honestly really confused, even though it is said to be a pro of family medicine.
locums essentially is just working somewhere temporarily. You can get a locums job working in an ER somewhere or a clinic. Usually it is full time, 5 days a week (40 hours per week) and the job lasts anywhere from 1-6 months. It may be a clinic is looking to fill a spot because someone else left or whatever. They usually pay an set hourly wage, offer health insurance for that time, and may pay for lodging.
Living Lou did a great job breaking it down :) Another nice part of it is that you can do locus in other countries. I've had some Canadian doctor friends that have worked in Australia or Dubai for locums
As a medical student I love family medicine but I also love oncology. Do you think it's possible for me to one day do them both? If so how would you go about accomplishing this?
family medicine is one where you are going to be poor at all I personally think they don't pay enough for things like consultation my doctor is on a FHO... in my opinion the government shouldn't have stopped this and restricted this.
Midlevels are the biggest threat to family medicine doctors
Not so much of a problem where I am in Canada because there are way more patient than doctors - might be worse in the US. I'll take a look at some data and do a video on this in the future :)
@@nxtgenmd Interestingly in Australia, FM is the midlevel to many other subspecialities and is seen as a threat...
Happy that you are passionate about your carrier choice… I do see that physicians assistants and nurse practitioners are becoming more common as there aren’t as many doctors and also are cheaper to hire
Thanks Mae :) That's another great topic for a future video I think, but I'd agree in that I've seen more PAs and NPs in certain areas as well. Our roles are different but by dividing the workload, the hope is that we'll be able to move more efficiently through seeing the growing population
Thank you very informative 💯
Great FM video ever!
Hi, I'm a fellow FM in Australia. It's interesting the point you make about pay because we have the same stigma and assumptions here too about FM. I wanted to clarify though, 500k is before overheads and tax right? So more like ~300k before tax (after overheads and other expenses)? In Australia, that would be on the higher end (maybe top 10-20% in FM). I think our average/mean is roughly 250k
Hi Steven, nice to meet a fellow FM from the other side of the pond... or multiple oceans in this case :) 500K would be before taxes and overhead - please see one of the other comment threads on this video for a more detailed explanation if you're interested, but 200K per year to run a practice would definitely be a bit much for most doctors in my area. We tend to work with other FM doctors in a group and will split expenses between 1-4 people. Then with taxes, it's a very interesting topic by itself - basically you set up a medical corporation and work with your accountant to pay expenses from the money in your corporation and do whatever you can to depreciate your income to legally retain as much money as you can. You still pay a lot, but its hard to place a number on it. Walking away with 250K after taxes and expenses (if you start with 500K) would be a conservative figure by most estimates. Looking into Canadian tax law would be your best bet to understand more - I'll do a video on it myself in a few years once I've worked it all out 🤙 I have been told that usually, FMs in Ontario will have a higher earning ceiling than in Australia but to be fair, I really don't know much about how Australian taxes and business expenses are set up. Hope this helps!
I’m in at as a lowly cna. Yea pay isn’t that good. Even compared to other cnas in other disciplines make 3-5 bucks more.
I can and do more jobs as well as more hours. But for my RN I can be making about the same 3-5 less.
It’s still interesting even though I do have a second job.
Ayeeeee I see that McMaster labcoat, let's go Marauders! Shout out to the IAHS building!
🔥🔥🔥
Maybe the neurosurgeons get all the prestige but everyone on your roster and in your community will look up to you and love you in a way that no other specialty is loved. (People are scared of being silently judged by psychiatrists even if their patients love them too)
Wife scored 268 and chose family medicine because that’s the doctor she wants to be. Not a generalist but a COMPREHENSIVIST (have own practice and do everything: small procedures, Lumps and bumps/derm, pregnancy, mental health and counseling, women’s health, kids, geriatrics and palliative medicine, beauty, pain management, sports medicine and joint injections, aviation and immigration medicals….)
Would family medicine be obsolete ? Im 17 y.o And I want to be a Primary Care phsician. I need it to be viable until 2100, thank you, liked and subbed. Good luck
Family medicine is not going anywhere imo :) Between primary practice, rural emerg, specialized health clinics, low risk OB, surgical assist... etc, many of us are of the opinion that we are only getting busier
Very informative!
Can you tell how much does an average family physician earn working in outpatient dept of a hospital (in Canada)?
Hi Dr.Gianluca @NXTgenMD, I liked your insights on the Family Medicine! I am a Yoga Teacher and now studying Clinical Medical Assistant program, and I was thinking which specialty clinic that I want to work in and my heart says Family Medicine because it is so broad , and I like to listen to people and connect with them. Thank you for your insights!
Hey quick question. How can you use your monitor with all of macs feature while the display of the Mac is open? I thought you have to leave the mac asleep to be able to use all of its features on the monitor?
Have you tried tinkering with the display setting in the system preferences? I'm not entirely sure but my MacBook and monitor are all factory set without any unique setting changes. Goodluck!
@@nxtgenmd Yea just fixed it. Thank you so much. And also best of luck in residency. I’ve been watching you since your video on your application to medical school breakdown and you have been such an inspiration to my commitment to this journey.
@@alirezavaziri8138 Thanks so much! I'm really glad to hear that the videos have been helpful :) Please keep up the hard work and see you around in the future
As always great video. Doc, i want to ask you something, is there any mobility program in canada where i can take transfer to canadian med school, I am medical student from Ukraine. Its difficult time for us. Thank you!
Thank you Faizan :) I'm sorry to hear about everything that has been going on lately and I'm certain that it's elevated the medical school experience to an entirely different level of difficulty for many of you. To the best of my knowledge, it is impossible to transfer into a Canadian medical school from any other medical school. As an example, we are not even allowed to transfer from one school to another in the same Canadian province. Because our healthcare is publicly funded, admissions are very tightly regulated and any Canadian medical student needs to have gone through the Canadian medical school admissions process.
Thank you so much for your condolences and thanks a lot for replying back🙌. Wishing you best!
i havent seen any ortho, derm, orpthal. advertise other to join their specialty. So...
Bro, are you sure you are only first year in Family Medicine ? Your beard and hair are grey already! :D
Ha 😅 wish I could blame medicine but it runs in my family
thanks for explaining about family medicin is , you are right , thanks
0
You're welcome :)
How much do you think an average FM physician can expect to make working 5 days/week like a standard 9-5 job (40 hour weeks) in places like Ontario (not downtown, but at least a suburb where you have family docs working in clinics)? I'm still deciding between psych and FM, and as an IMG with tonnes of debt, I definitely need to be thinking about salary. Going to be applying to both the states and Canada (I'm originally from Ontario), and it just seems like there's way more info for the States than Canada. Thanks for the video!
Hi, I'm just a random FM physician who stumbled across this video late at night lol. I too was once deciding between psych and FM. I like both. Ultimately I went with FM because I figured there is a TON of psych in FM. Most PCPs have their areas of interest and mine being psych, I tend to draw in more psych-related patients. I also liked seeing and treating other conditions and having a nice variety in my day. Also, when the psych cases get too complicated, I can refer out.
As far as salary goes, I can speak for the US. Salaries range A LOT depending on location; rural vs urban, coastal, which state, etc. Ranges tend to be between 200k-350k (US dollars). It can be more and can be less. A lot also depends on if you want to do straight outpatient, a mix of hospital and clinic, OB, and how many patients you want to see per day, as well as compensation/bonus models. Lets just say you wanted to work in an fairly urban clinic in the west coast, you're probably looking around 250k (again US dollars). Add another 100k if you're okay with working more rural.
I also see a general trend upwards in physician compensation within Family Medicine. So who knows what it'll be up to in 3-5 years.
@@livinglou7140 Oh wow, thank you so much for your reply! I guess I didn't think that I could have opportunities to do psych within FM as well, that's very interesting to me. It's especially worthwhile looking into for me because FM training is 2 years in Canada whereas Psych is 5, so that is a lot of opportunity cost in that as well. I'll have to research into all of that further now.
Thanks for taking the time to comment :)
@@gerinimoify Living Lou has hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned :) The general rule is that most specialties tend to earn more in the US. Family is almost breakpoint even from the US and Canada though. Standard full time family doc doing 40-50 hours (I know you said 40 but weeks can be variable if things come up - such is the nature of medicine lol), 400K Canadian should not be a problem where I'm from IF you are maximizing your billing potential. That's a topic for a future video but unfortunately some docs where I'm from do not bill entirely correctly. All the best!
My daughter was in the same quandary as you trying to decide between the two. She had two psychiatrists (one a forensic psychiatrist) really pushing her to go into the specialty as they felt she had a gift for it. However, in speaking with a friend whose husband and son are both family doctors about this - I received message back from her telling me that both of them 'emphatically' urged her to go into FM for this reason: They said a FM doctor's practice would end up being about 30% psychiatry anyways, and she would also be able to practice other types of medicine and have that balance. My friend has always said not to worry about the income as a FM doctor - as they do very well - and neither her husband or son (who was an IMG) are in downtown Toronto.
My daughter started her FM residency this July and is really happy she chose this specialty for many reasons, more particularly because she wants to work with the elderly - as she loves this demographic. As an IMG, you will have success applying for FM in Canada - with 5 million Canadians without a family doctor and 1.3 million people expected to be in Canada by 2024. Good luck.
One of the misconceptions that you didn't mention is that the doctors who end up in family medicine are those that are not at the top of their class and had to settle. People tend to forget that everyone that got into med school was measured on exactly the same criteria and abilities.
As someone who's currently interviewing for FM residecy positions, I can say that your comment is huge misconception. Scores on exams aren't everything and don't translate to a great doctor. I did alright in my class percentile and many of my friends that rank much higher are going into family medicine because it's what they want to do. FM is a calling and a decision, not a settlement.
@@Dsquaredforever I think you are agreeing with my comment and the point that I was making about misconceptions around making FM the specialty of choice and I totally agree with yours. Family medicine is definitely a calling and in my opinion, also require quite a number of additional soft skills that no test can ever truly measure nor test scores capture.
D.O. degree physicians are also doctors who didn’t have the stellar grades needed to get into an M.D. medical school
@jaechannel1234312234 that's another misconception. While some schools have different standards, people who go to med schools whether it's MD or DO are very high achievers with excellent grades and test scores. Some choose to go to DO because they want the extra MSK training for manipulation. You also have to think about how limited spots there are to medical school in the first place - people apply to both MD and DO and will apply for multiple rounds. This doesn't mean their grades weren't good. If anything it often comes down to extracurriculars and experiences - research, past jobs, etc. that determine their admission over someone else because they both have good grades/scores.
Hey :) don’t know how I missed a comment like this but since this video has gotten a lot of traction of my channel, I wanted to add some points to your comment.
1) “Ending up” in family medicine because you had were judged inferior to your classmates in an academic sense is not how this works in many cases. There is a need for family doctors - so people who applied for a more competitive residency (say ophthalmology - the most competitive program in the country) do have a chance to match into family medicine if they don’t get into their first choice. This happened with at least 1 student in my year who wanted optho and is now a family resident. These applicants were gunning for some of the most competitive programs in the country to begin with - so relatively speaking are some of the brightest people (definitely above the 50% percentile in many cases) in all of medical school.
2) Medical schools in Canada are pass/fail only. We do not write any board exams until after we’ve matched to residency. As a result, there is entirely 0 academic component to your application to residency that would separate you from others. You can watch my other videos that go over my entire application if anybody is interested. You get picked for a residency spot based off of your CV and interview performance in addition to the contacts that you’ve made in certain programs.
The fact of the matter is, there are 2 types of family doctors. Those that chose to be here, and those that wanted to do something really competitive and committed themselves to pursuing ^ (insert competitive specialty here) only to be turned down because someone else got the spot. Neither category is a misconception that I forgot to mention but hopefully this clears it up a bit 🤙
My family doc who overworked himself grossed 1.2m before he died at the age of 45 from a heart attack.the money is definitely there if u have a large patient base and put in enough hours. For reference he worked 7days a week 12hrs a day. Another family doc I know owns a 20million dollar commercial building where he had his practice. There's definitely a lot of money in family med if ur not lazy. Another family doc in my neighbourhood owns a 250k Porsche he graduated from the Carribean. Young guy pulling in 670k a year according to Toronto Star billings. The avg family doc in my area is easily doing 450k plus. One thing common between all of them is they just work work work work and spend very minimal time like 5mins or less with each patient. Even when they are 80plus they keep working
Thanks for the anecdote Paramandeep :) I didn't want to share too many of the outlier stories that I've heard (1.2m would be what I consider an outlier) but these people do exist. Personally at 12 hours x 7 days per week, I probably wouldn't be living my best life per se, but I can relate to wanting to work quite a bit myself - especially in the beginning. I think that family medicine is nice because if you want to work, you'll find work. If you'd rather enjoy a better work life balance, then that possibility exists as well. Also real estate investing and such are definitely things that many doctors choose to get involved in
@@nxtgenmd ull definitely make more than enough as a family medicine doc. it's a great choice with only a 2 yr residency. many FM's who are well established and popular in their area are making more than ur avg typical specialist..and yes invest in real estate , ull definitely become a multimillionaire quickly. Lots of the docs I know own real estate commercial buildings and land
@@paramandeepsandhu154 You have to keep in mind that by investing in real estate you also participate in the very industry which is increasingly making housing too expensive for the rest of society. Any physician should know that secure housing is a social determinant of health that is increasingly put at risk by greedy real estate investors focused on becoming rich. I'd think it would be ethically dubious and morally bankrupt for a physician to take active part in the very system which actively worsens the socioeconomic pressures on the people they serve, which increases the rates of homelessness and poverty and which actively contributes to the socioeconomic disparity of society. You make enough money as a physician, why want more?
Financial independence
how many years is family medicine
3
👏
you are hella convincing
Hi doc
Hoping you are doing great.
Doc I have one question as img is it important to give usmle step 1 and 2 for appearing in mccqe1 ?
Hi Kureshi :) Same to you. The USMLE exams are quite different than the MCC from my experience - however, learning about one system does help you prepare for the other system's exams as well. IMGs applying to Canada will not need to write the USMLE exams, but for the states, they will require them. Hope this helps!
You earned a new sub doc🤍 I’m a final yr med student and you don’t know how much informative your video has been to me,thank you
Thanks so much Tejas :) All the best in your final year and with interviews and board exams afterwards. This year's gonna fly by for you💪
@@nxtgenmd Thankyou😄
Family doctors are the best doctors, but they are not paid like they matter so the specialty will die.
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Sounds like some people are REAAALLLY uninformed... Family docs easily make at least a 100k a year at the end of the day
Do you believe that the 100k bracket is an appropriate income fro someones who is overworked, has done 10 years of schooling, and has accumulated insane debt? I understand that 100k is still a lot of money, but that doesn't mean it's a feasible compensation relative to what an FM.
@@danielghiasvand9458 uh yea. There's other ppl with similar amount of schooling like PhDs that don't make half of what mds make.
So? There are people with bachelors who earn twice the amount. I dont think ur reasoning is justifiable for the low pay of FMs
@@danielghiasvand9458 ur argument was that they went thru 10 yrs of school they have so much debt. This was ur argument for why doctors should be paid more. But I was reminding u that just because they spent that much time and effort into school doesn't mean they deserve a certain income as other ppl with similar amounts of schooling debt and work make less
Hi Sophie :) You'll see more depending on where you currently are in your training, but yes, 100K is definitely on the lower end
Lowest paid*
STRAIGHT MEMORIZATION ROUTINE WORK. WAIT, AI HAS NOT BEEN INVENTED YET! LOL
That's all of medicine lol. Surgery is 90% hernia repair and appendectomy.
You are too young in the profession.
If you decide to settle in the Ottawa area, I would like you to he my family doctor. I will subscribe to your channel just to see where you end up practicing.