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I didn't get the feud either but then I found out recently that Katy Perry dated John Mayer right after Taylor did and Katy actually still liked him and said nice things about after she broke up with him. So i think that's what caused the drama/feud
@@cepopeyewhy are you watching this content if you support trump? This video involving racism, homophobia, antisemitism, lying, and manipulation of facts ???? Think a little
@@mcgheebentle1958 Someone made some 4chan posts pretending to be Taylor posting images that supposedly didn't exist anywhere online. Moot stepped in and said it was fake.
if i had a nickel for every time a fandom was convinced their fave was in a secret gay relationship that all came to a head with a supposedly fake baby, i'd have 2 nickels which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice
Technically 3 because if we are talking about Kaylor and Larry…. Add Ziam to that because when Bear was born SO many people were like… fake baby number 2 for 1D boys… I can’t remember if the same thing happened when Khai was born (since the Ziam ‘truthers’ were always less… loud as the Larry tinhats.)
I would have many. Literally every famous celeb at some point had gay rumors going on about them. Starting from asap rocky to kanye to zac effron to shawn mendez to jake gyllenhal to andrew garfield to daniel radcliff to taylor lautner. And many many more. Even in the youtuber and tiktoker fandoms that i am in, there's gay rumors about every other one of them.And these rumors are based on the most baseless far fetched connections they can make. The reasons can be as asinine as the "guy wore no-show socks" or "has a pretty body" or my personal favorite is "he just looks fruity". This is a going on like a pandemic. It's at an obsessive level with every famous and hot celeb. It's always the hottest guys/girls with lots of fan following that get picked for these rumors.
@@roadlizard2651Her name is highlighted with a check mark. I know you feel like that's not a guarantee, but her content since then shows fearlessness in covering online fandom, which is her brand, so...
We should've of learnt after everything with Dan and Phil and Markiplier and JackSepticEye in like 2016, and the whole Larry and the fake baby ordeal. Alas, we have not
@@_jolie_ while they have both come out as gay in recent years, fans went rabid in trying to prove they were gay and secretly dating, especially in 2012-2016 tumblr years despite both of them expressing that they were very private people. It got so bad you could see it really affected Dan especially, who had struggled with internalised homophobia after growing up being bullied. Like even though some of the fans were "right" that the boys were gay, they essentially objectified them and fetishised them, reducing them to only their sexuality and potential relationship. As a queer person myself, I understand wanting representation of those you admire, but the way they were treated was not okay
@@sincerelykokomo852 Yeah. To me, Dan and Phil is sort of the worst one of the list, because it really just drives home that... like, what if you were correct about all that insane stuff you are saying? What if it was all atually true? Would that make it okay to say it? No, obviously not! At the time I felt like the argument against rp shipping was mostly "What if they _aren't_ gay and together, you're making their friendship uncomfortable, you might ruin their actual relationships with other people". Which is also true and has also happened. But being correct almost makes it even worse. I also assumed we had learned from all of that, but I've had encounters with Minecraft UA-cam fans in the last few years and nope, nothing has been learned at all. The Minecraft Boys have probably overtaken Dan and Phil by now in terms of how many fanfics there are about them on AO3.
I assumed this was gonna be some 2013 tumblr lore i somehow avoided. EXCUSE ME, 2019? The pandemic exists in the same timeline as a Taylor Swift shipping blog?
I was never into Taylor Swifts music so I only learned about this a while ago on TikTok. Fucking weird to me how people that age can act like that. Reminds me a lot of what happened with Dan and Phil the UA-camrs there was an entire blog with a password that collected "evidence". I remember seeing that still being around as late as 2018 maybe it's still a thing. This was before either of them ever came out btw.
I just….if the gaylors are right, and she’s queer on some level, what then? Like largely we agree outing people is bad, so if you’re right and she eventually gets so fed up she says “yep, you were right, I like women” - what then?? Do you date Taylor Swift? No. So let the lady live. If the song speaks to you, let it speak to you.
they justify it by saying that they're not outing her, because they think taylor is already out to the fans who she wants to be out to. which is...... not delusional at all 😀
Historically, beard marriages tend to be a lot less emotionally fraught than Taylor's relationships with men have been. Like why does she care so much about Jake Gyllenhaal if he's just her beard? I know, I'm sure they've got an answer to this.
@@AmIWhatAndWhyyeah, but this comment is a question about the thought process of people who think he's a beard, and therefore think she's not interested in him (or any man) romantically.
Came to laugh at a tumblr subculture that I’ve only experienced as briefly and fearfully as a passing shark fin, stayed for the dawning realization that this was basically QAnon for Swifties
As a swiftie who stays away from gaylor stuff, it really was the QAnon for a chunk of the fanbase but most of the fanbase still finds it dumb and delulu clowning.
I have to save the pinned comment for the ad. But genuinely so sorry about the confusion/restriction issues and thank you to everyone who came back to watch the vid. I really wish there was more communication on youtube's end as to what the problem is/was.
I think if they did date they are no longer together. Them having a baby together is ridiculous as fuck. I have no clue how some people truly believe these things
One of my favorite pieces of “evidence” for Gaylor, is that Gold Rush (an absolute bop) is composed so that the beat matches perfectly with Karlie Kloss’s model walk. No ma’am, it’s literally a standard pop beat. Taylor has always experienced scrutiny when it comes to her relationships, and it’s honestly so sad. Even if Taylor falls under the queer umbrella, why do we have the right to out her?
interesting you are talking about gold rush which talks about a hair falling into pieces like dominoes, i don't think joe's hair was that long for it to fall like dominoes😂
@@plant6635 it could be about her, but also, joe did have longer hair growing up, that like shaggy boy band cut. idk about the "everybody wonders what it would be like to love you" line tho lol
@@felicia7302 she was jealous of him all the time, she pretty much told this at a recent concert when she said gorgeous was about how stupid you act when you think someone is hot
She has a problem with alcohol because she’s constantly being forced to wear a mask pretending she’s straight and begging some man to marry her and have babies - it would drive anyone to drink🤬
On Twitter one time I saw someone who said they had no idea what a “gaylor” actually was and thought it just meant a gay Taylor Swift fan so they had been calling themself that for months… I still think about them sometimes
Tbh the biggest proof against Karlie and Taylor being in a relationship is the implication that if they were Trump would know about it and he didn’t say anything. As if that wouldn’t immediately have been a tweet.
i was never into taylor swift but this brings me back to my larry phase. theorists on youtube and wattpad really had 12 year old me fully convinced louis tomlinson had faked the existence of a whole ass baby. it was wild lmao
It's still going on, I saw a video a couple days ago of someone claiming the two were secretly married or something. (It might've been satire but it really didn't seem like it 😭😭)
This is such a peculiar thing because even if we do assume that Swift is queer, which is objectively none of our business, then the people who are dedicating all of this time to "prove" that their fave is queer are devoting all of their time to outing a person who they believe to be gay against her will. Do they not see the harm in this? Outing somebody is incredibly dangerous, and even if you assume that "no one will care" or have a negative opinion, that is still in no way information that you are permitted to share. My mom outted me as gay to her family (who are openly conservative) when I was a kid without even telling me until years later and to this day I feel violated because of that.
That's kind of what I was thinking too, which is why I'm kind of on the fence about people who who do this with their favorite artists. Speculating that someone might be queer is one thing, but doing all of this investigating to say, "I know she's in a relationship with (blank). I have proof!" and also stating your theories as fact feels very icky. Seems ironic that some of these people claim that they're supposedly so against outing regular gay people but then turn around and do it to celebrates, and it's normalized?? If Taylor comes out as gay or bi, I will be happy for her for finally having the courage to do so, and I think it would be fine if people said, "I knew it!", but in the meantime, I say let her reveal this in her own time, when she's ready.
there’s a difference between outing and picking up on flagging. i’m not a swiftie, just a casual observer of this whole thing, but as a lesbian it is very obvious to me that’s what taylor is doing. outing is sharing information that someone had disclosed to you privately and spreading that to others. everything that taylor has done that has lead others believe she might be queer have been things that she has voluntarily presented to the public (using well-known queer phrases in lyrics, wearing a bi pride bracelet, writing romantic songs using feminine pronouns, etc.) the two are simply scenarios are simply not comparable.
@@lesbianjimmyfallon this is what i was going to say until i read your username and now we have to fight each other to the death how dare you bring that man into the fold
@@lesbianjimmyfallon’m also a lesbian (and somewhere in between swiftie and a casual observer lol) and while i understand what you’re saying, i disagree with you. some of the “flags” are more questionable than others, but every single one of them can be reasonably explained by something else that doesn’t have to do with taylor herself being queer and i fully believe that is on purpose. taylor thinks things through VERY carefully and is obviously very aware of her image and self presentation. while it’s very possible she may be attempting to “signal,” i feel like the fact that it’s merely signals and not anything overtly concrete is a very important piece of information in this whole thing. if she is queer and wants everyone to know, she would have made it clear already. there are a lot of reasons she might be engaging in this flagging behavior, some i approve of more than others (but only one i would entirely disapprove of and that’s purposely sending signals to appeal to a queer audience knowing she herself is not queer which i do not believe is the correct explanation). i have my own personal thoughts and feelings on it, but that’s all they are. Personal Thoughts and Feelings. talking about the flags themselves, the imagery, the phrases, etc is one thing, but i think it’s quite another to publicly apply whatever conclusions we personally come to onto taylor herself. she is sharing what she wants to share, no more, no less, and i believe that ascribing anything more to her than that isn’t a good idea. it is still outing or attempting to out until a person comes out themselves, regardless of how many “signs” there are
@@mynameisreallycool1i honestly even think speculating (outwardly) is a little weird but that might just be me. when i identified as bi i was uncomfortable with my friends being like “honestly i think maybe you just don’t even like men at all and haven’t figured everything out yet” and while they are my friends and meant well And ended up being correct, that was for me to figure out and announce on my own and at the time it made me more confused and anxious about my identity. i can’t imagine having thousands and thousands of strangers speculating on my identity all the time, even if they’re NOT going about it by saying “here’s proof she’s actually in a relationship with x or identifies as y” yknow
Shipping actual human beings together is creepy, at best. At worst, it's downright cruel. You're essentially making it awkward for people to interact with their co-workers, be affectionate to their friends, or God forbid make eye-contact with another person in the public eye. And, in the case of queer speculation, if these people ARE queer, it is absolutely disgusting to out someone against their will.
picking up on intentional queer flagging and references to queer history, slang, literature and cinema in songs can't objectively force an a+ lister that we don't know personally out of the closet. gaylors don't even expect Taylor to come out and no one who doesn't know her personally can out her that's not how it works
How many times will we have to tell you that we are not outing anyone? We are the FIRST ones to say that she doesn't owe ANYONE a coming out and she doesn't have to do it if she doesn't want to. We also cannot out her because we don't know her personally and she hasn't directly told us "yes, I'm queer". We are just picking up on years and years of queerflagging and discussing it on OUR community.
taylor swift outed herself when she liked a post during pride month in 2019 saying she was 🌈🌈🌈🌈 and 🌈🌈🌈🌈 and it shows. you can look it up and find the post she still has it liked.
ahhh yes the gaylors. memories of people calling me homophobic on tiktok because i said it’s terrible to be actively wishing for the downfall of her het relationships. after the drama of the break up now i’ve seen videos of gaylors actually saying how happy they are a 6 year relationship ended….
I saw a video that called Joe an emotionally manipulative toxic man who basically brainwashed Taylor into thinking she was straight. You know, Joe, her longest standing relationship to date with 4 albums full of songs about how much they were in love and how he was there for her at her darkest times. The one who went to all of her concerts, introduced her to his family, basically stood up for her when the whole world hated her and her career was almost over. Such a fake relationship am I right? Like who would want that? And that Taylor broke up with him because she "woke up" and now she and Karlie are going to be happy ever after.
@@imlike_tt3428 There was a gaylor on tiktok saying Taylor is still in a relationship with Karlie but it’s private. One comment said “i was worried since Karlie announced she’s pregnant again but this is calming me” WHAT!? even Karlie being married and pregnant and Taylor having a whole love life with men can’t have them see how delusional and ridiculous they sound. And they will never hesitate to call you homophobic for saying it’s strange to make all these theories about her FRIENDS.
Joe is bi. TS never lived at the same property in Lavender Hill. She was with Diana at the time. Joe only agreed to it because he wanted to be a famous actor. It didn’t work.
honestly the most shocking thing about this isn't the fact that its happening, but that TTB is in her mid-30s, an age at which we can make a general assumption entails a career and maybe even a family. who has the time...
Well she said she's in her mid-30s, that could very well be a lie to give herself more credibility. I'm convinced she's actually just a teen with nothing else to do.
I really need people to understand that outing women is just as dangerous as outing men. Yes our society is more accepting than ever before about homosexuality, but there are still a lot of bigots in the world, and people’s lives can be negatively impacted by being outed against their will, no matter what their gender is.
Yeah I’m not sure if she really is but if I were famous I’d have to keep it a secret due to family members. It’s ruin my personal life so if she is keeping it a secret for her own reasons it’s better not to get obsessed
As a bisexual who recently become a swiftie (love her since Red era but not fully swiftie yet in that time), I'm annoyed by gaylors speculating Taylor's sexuality. Never forget what happened to the Heartstopper actor for being accused queerbaited and his immature fans forced him to come out. This is why real people cannot queer bait.
I mean, real people can queerbait lmao. Misha Collins, Travis McElroy, Nicki Minaj. It’s all just funny to look back on and ridiculous that they do it to get attention. But it is absolutely a “thing”. 😂😅 The Misha one in particular is a Tumblr meme of his Twitter post at this point. Edit: Also the porn industry has a term-gay for pay. Again, it’s harmless. Pays the bills baby.
@@iwakeupandboomimarathe didn’t, it’s so dumb. He expressed that Harry Styles was attractive but said he was totally straight. Slightly cringe cliche? Yes. Queerbaiting? Absolutely not. People who find Travis annoying or whatever want to find something that seems oBjEcTiVeLy PrObLeMaTiC instead of simply admitting that it’s just their opinion.
@@asmrtpop2676 yes but it does WAYYYY more harm to say that anyone who says they’re gay that they’re just queer baiting than it does for people to queerbait IMO. it’s smthn we just have to take it at face value. i believe dan howell said how much it pushed him back in the closet when people said he was queerbaiting, so i suggest we be careful and accept the person.
i’m new to the fandom and came across a gaylord podcast that just baffled me. as a queer person i was absolutely jaw-dropped when i found out there is an entire community dedicated to these theories that are just REACHING 😭 there are so many queer ppl in the music industry that we can look to as representation, there’s no need to try and force a straight woman to be gay, this community is so insane to me
seeing this notification gave me like. a trauma response. I got super obsessed w and hyperfixated on Gaylor/taylor in general in senior year of high school (i was having a bad time), and so of course i followed TTB until her insane and horrible opinions couldnt judt be attributed to her posting every anon she was ever sent and she doubled down over and over on the biphobia and antisemitism and also just. batshit insane theories that she clung to rather than just accepting that karlie and taylor either broke up or never had the relationship we assumed they did. I think part of it was sunk cost fallacy but a huge section of it was also definitely the power rush she got from being this "secret informant" and figure of power in this small community. It really was some weird cult/hyperconspiracy shit, and the structure of Spade riddles really is unsettlingly similar to Q drops and can be analyzed through that same sort of gamefied conspiritorial thought even if one is clearly less severe or (lets be real) important than the other. Fascinating video, and i appreciate the more respectful and sympathetic tone you took! sorry for writing a lot but i hope ur having a good one 👍
Trauma response 🥴 it's wild what some people will call trauma now. It's lost all meaning. Just means something that made you think about something cringe you did and you feel embarrassed, but not enough to not tell everyone about it. That's not a trauma response. It's a normal human reaction.
I always thought of Taylor as the straightest woman I had ever seen. like, absolutely nothing ever gave me gay vibes about her. god forbid you’re a girl’s girl and close to your girlfriends😂 another fact about Taylor is like you said, her easter eggs aren’t the Da Vinci code. they’re usually right there. she’s not going to make these intricate hidden messages about her sexuality 🤣
I absolutely agree with you. I am the girliest straight married woman you’ve ever seen lol. Favorite color is pink, teal and lavender. My whole wardrobe is pink and lavender! And in my 20s I was super close to my girlfriends and would dance provocative with them at clubs and parties, that does not mean I’m gay or bisexual or anything other that straight! It’s silly and stupid to try and force a label on someone.
@@CelinaSharp No offence but I kind of sense some homophobia in this paragraph...Sorry if I'm wrong, but saying "I have plenty of friends, that doesn't mean I'm GAY" seems pretty judgmental. It's okay to be any sexuality, and I hope you believe that. Also girly ≠ straight.
Thank you. I have a *super* close friend, Like platonic soul mate vibes. We just get each other. But people at out high school and the middle school we went to, people always think we're dating. I mean on a certain level we understand why people think that, we hold hands all. The. Time. And are like practically joined at the hip. But still every once in awhile it gets a little irritating everyone thinking that were dating. Because I'm straight and for the most part my friend likes men too. I mean we always laugh it off because it is actually kind of funny that people think we're dating. I've moved on from being annoyed to laughing at it. But it still does beg the question of why can't people be close without dating rumors spiraling. And that goes for anyone celebrities or just people at a high school or middle school. Because even friends of the opposite gender have to face these rumors. They can never just be close friends. For some reason 'either one or both parties have to secretly secretly have a crush on the other'. Sorry for this fat rant. It's just something that bugs me a little bit. Let close friends be close friends.
gosh i fell down the ttb rabbithole when i was in high school. i was coming into my own queer awakening and i kind of projected that onto taylor's songs at the time, and it didn't help that she was in such a pro-lgbtq era at the time-- it made me think huh, maybe she is just like me. anyway, i believed some of the gaylor stuff for a little while, but then the conspiracies became wayyyy too paralleled to Q, which my parents were into and i knew that was insane, and that parallel pulled me out of it. truly such an odd period in my life. after that i read ttb's blog to laugh at it, as it was so ridiculous-- i remember sending in asks to ttb with silly theories i thought were too crazy for her to post but sometimes she would post them and say like "hmm this is interesting." i thought it was funny that she would post mine when i was trying to somewhat troll her lol
I think this resumes the whole thing, people want to see themselves on the people they look up to or the media they consume so they start seeing patterns and clues that speak to them.
I feel this except it was Larry stylinson, still think they could’ve been involved somehow back in the day but not anymore. I came to my senses when people starting theorizing that Louis Tomlinsons baby was a doll
Reminds me SO MUCH of the CrissColfer fandom (Darren Criss & Chris Colfer). Darren was dating then married a woman named Mia and Chris was dating a man. People were CONVINCED these two were secretly together and that darren criss was gay-something he adamantly denied. It was so bad it broke their friendship apart. They couldn’t do anything in public without intense scrutiny.
Dear goodness? I know this is from like, 3 months ago, but if you ever see this, could you elaborate? All I know is that Chris Colfer is one of my favourite authors.. and that’s it. And that he apparently acted on Glee. Truthfully I don’t know what it is, maybe because I grew up in SEA and all i got was Doraemon and Shin chan.
@@siIhouettes Hi! So Abby isn’t quite right about why Chris and Darren’s friendship fell apart. Crisscolfer shippers were intense, for sure, but neither Chris or Darren have EVER said that’s why their friendship fell apart. Chris had a lot of problems with the writers on Glee considering they constantly made fun of his voice and appearance but Darren continued working with them. Darren was also highly favoured by the writers in regards to songs and promotion within the show, while Chris (like Dianna Agron) was brushed to the side and often mocked. Also, Chris has a book called Stranger than Fanfiction where a character that is based on him has issues with two of his co-stars who are pretty blatantly Lea and Darren. I think there was just always tensions between them, more so from Chris’ side. Darren’s always more upbeat and invested in their (now very very limited) interactions with each other so I don’t think it’s the shipping that ruined their friendship. I think it’s more to do with something that happened behind the scenes. Also, another thing to be noted is a large part of Chris’ fandom ten years ago despised Darren. To the point they were sending him death threats and making images of him with bullet holes in his head because he got in the way of their glee ship, and I even remember some of them calling Chris a slut for being in his hotel room (with other people!) because Chris had started dating his boyfriend at the time. The Crisscolfer shippers were crazy for sure, but a lot of newer fans or more casual fans didn’t see just how intense some Chris fans were in their hatred towards Darren. It was genuinely crazy. I think the fandom - both Crisscolfer shippers and rabid Darren haters - might have pushed a wedge into Chris and Darren’s friendship, I think it was much more. I think it’s to do with Darren’s continuous working relationship with Ryan Murphy (who wrote Glee) that drove them apart since Chris does have trauma from his time on Glee due to the intense fandom and how badly he was treated by the writers because it doesn’t seem to have the same effect on Darren. Darren is definitely way less distant than Chris is whenever they interact. Which does remind me of Karlie and Taylor. Karlie is less distant than Taylor and that’s because Taylor was the one who got hurt by Karlie. I think Chris got hurt by Darren and that’s what led to the breakdown of their friendship. Because they were like… best friends.
@@KateCat420 it is ;-; a lot of them had horrible experiences. Darren and Lea are probably the ones who had the best experiences but they still got it bad. Lea got antisemitic jokes made about her and Darren had a whole episode dedicated to calling him fat and acting like it was funny. I love the show but the writers were terrible
Last night, I saw a grown woman comparing being a gaylor to being a jew in the holocaust. I wish I was joking. She talked about how she had received death threats and felt unsafe for "just being herself" (she was talking about... thinking... taylor swift is gay..). It was odd. Like cmon, you are 21 years old why are you doing this?? I had family members pass in the holocaust.
deuxmoi, a gossip blogger, posted about the break up. someone asked them if taylor is seeing someone and they respond with something like ”just seeing people. that’s it” and all the gaylors were commenting shit like “seeing means giving woman head🌈”
@@b8376 deuxmoi is not a reliable source at alll! they’ve spread a ton of false rumors! they’ll practically post anything sent to them whether it’s legit or not. i’ve neverrr trusted what they say esp now with the joe/taylor breakup 😢 (which i’m absolutely heartbroken over)
i will never forget when a kaylor told me that they hope that my parents kick me out because of my bisexuality. i just said that we should respect taylor and joe’s relationship. fast forward a few months, i commented about that experience under a video talking about shipping taylor with people and a bunch of kaylors defended the original kaylor
Bro... what? They want Taylor to be queer but want a queer person to be KICKED OUT OF HOME? I bet they're to same people who accused Kit Connor of "queer baiting" because he wasn't comfortable coming out publicly yet.
I have been called “homophobic” for saying is disagreed with Gaylor theories. Like I’m also gay and I’m allowed to disagree without you taking my card away 😂
I’m a pretty big Swiftie. I think the biggest issue with gaylorism in the fandom that most normal, well adjusted, even queer folks have, is that a LOT of the rhetoric behind it is biphobic. most gaylor swifties, at least on twitter, are level 3. personally, my main issue is not the speculation, its just really shitty to assume that 1. all outwardly “straight” relationships include onky straight people, and 2. someone who may have dated women can’t be happy with a man.
Same here - I just mute/block as many gaylors as possible because as a bi/pan/something like that (i dont really have a label) person who has dated both men and women, it feels like their belief is that because I've dated and am attracted to women, they would judge my current healthy relationship with my fiancé
Right. I consider myself a "bilor" but I also think all of her relationships with men have been/are real, authentic, romantic connections. I also am not adamant that she "is" any specific sexuality, and if she is, I don't want to "force" her out. I'd want her to come out on her terms. I just think a lot of her "gay" moments COULD be intentional flagging to the community. For me, I never came out. The people who were able to pick up on my flagging figured it out, and everyone else... maybe they'll realize one day. I don't think it's a reach to think Taylor could have a similar mindset. But I don't want to project onto anyone else or convince myself that what is, at the end of the day, my own personal speculation, is 100% absolutely the truth... because it could very likely not be.
most gaylors who believe her relationship with Joe might have been bearding don't believe so because she's can't possibly be bi. Bi people can beard depending on circumstances. Their relationship just didn't add up for several other reasons
That's so true, I'm always thinking the easiest explanation is that someone's sexuality is a bit more fluid than just being straight or gay, but no people need to dig and make stuff up to put someone into a box.
I think a big part of the appeal of gaylor for young and closeted gay kids is the closeted aspect. They can imagine their idol being in the same situation as they are and get validation from the community for 'seeing the signs'. In these sort of things claiming that it's the 'hets' that don't get it etc. But YOU see it because you are queer and it makes them feel better when they are isolated. Which can be kinda terrible when it's gay kids being led around like this, especially by older people, who might even be cishet themselves.
They're not all that tho. Same thing with Larry and other spaces there's a lot of straight 30 something women in those spaces, and honestly a lot of it reads like fetishist content.
@@dia.96 Yep! It's really giving fetish from those straight folks but from the queer kids, yeah that mostly read as isolation for me. Like when you actually hang around queer people or straight women while being confortable in your skin and experiencing human relationships fully, you quickly realized how banal Taylor's friendship with women are. And one of the side effects of going outside and meeting real people is that you spend less time online scrutinizing stuff that don't matter. Ths level of projection on celebrities is ALWAYS born out of a feeling of emptiness.
@@KookiesNolly I mean star-crossed romances about two people who are "forbidden" from being openly together are still super popular regardless of if they're fetishized or not, or regardless if they're fictional characters or non-fictional people. The real-life element of seeing a closeted celebrity as queer adds an element of saviorism, too. It sounds like a romance novel except real life, and that is easily appealing to a lot of people (especially women who tend to be the target audience for romance stories). If you "understand" that two celebrities are secretly in-love before they reveal a romantic relationship publicly you feel like the hero
I'll have you know this is far too relatable. I was thinking "damn swifties were crazy back then, hah" and my heart shattered when I learned it was FAR too recent
The wildest Gaylor related things I saw was when one of her dancers on the reputation tour got fired for posting r*pe jokes on his instagram story, and I legit saw a Gaylor tweet that they hoped he did a major TV interview and outed Taylor. My best friend is a Gaylor and she still sends me Gaylor posts to this day, but, I’m like…. Are Gaylors okay? Like truly?
regarding taylor and katys feud, people often say that it was about back up dancers or that taylor was jealous of her but i rather think it was about john mayer. when taylor and john were together she and katy were friends, taylor semi-publicly talked about how he treated her but katy still went and dated john mayer. if that happened to me id feel pretty betrayed too
Speaking of "gay celebrity conspiracy theories" I would love to see you do a deep dive into the Larry conspiracy as well. Or maybe even the Robert Patterson/Kristen Stewart conspiracy theory (apparently they never broke up after Twilight and have like three secret kids but Management (TM) won't let them be together).
the weirdest thing about all the gay conspiracies is that it gets to a point where the person it’s about (if in the situation if they really are gay) either are even more terrified to come out or feel like they have to come out before they’re ready to do so. two examples of these things (in order) are dan & phil and kit connor
This is giving the same vibe as the Supernatural fandom’s “j2 tinhatters.” Those people ship the 2 male leads of the show and also think their wives are just beards despite the couples having multiple children and being together for at least a decade. It’s honestly really interesting from a psychology perspective to watch the complex story people make to lessen the cognitive dissonance they feel when the person they believe is queer does something that goes against their beliefs about the situation. It’s so dangerous though especially for the family of the people being shipped.
The image of trump sitting on the white house computer from 2017 to 2020 ish constantly posting Kaylor theories on tumblr made me laugh so much. Thank you ♥️
i just want to say, as a queer person, i think this kind of shit is SO disrespectful. like imagine being taylor. say you are 100% straight but the entire world is saying every man youve ever loved is just a publicity stunt and ur dating all your close female friends - imagine how hard that would be, from a friendship and romantic relationship stand point. if it were me, i dont think id ever feel truly confident in my romantic or platonic relationships and i think thats so... sad. i dont think these people are fans of taylor as herself i think theyre fans of her as this made up person theyve created in their heads. also its borderline homophobic to be entirely honest but im not going to write out an entire essay on that in a youtube comment 😭😭 i just think there are so many ACTUAL queer women you could be supporting to the moon and back but of course they choose to make up a queer icon to support instead - especially one who is currently in a VERY public relationship with a man. queer people DO exist in the industry, queer WOMEN. there are so many iconic queer people who deserve so much support but these fans actively choose to NOT support them and instead make up shit. its very telling to me that this isnt about gay representation as much as they say it is - forcing a straight woman into being gay is NOT celebrating queerness, it is not a good thing believe it or not.
I am a swiftie, but the gaylors are something else... I genuinely cannot stand people who try to insist that someone is a sexuality when they've never come out as such.
me too queen i don’t understand it makes me so mad like what’s the point to lounge around and assume like if she is she’ll tell us when she’s ready and all these people are so concerned with her sexuality for what reason
@@sharidavis3906 same here. It feels so rude. Also, as someone who is in fact bisexual, I would've hated it if people had been speculating on my sexuality before I was ready to tell anyone. It took me a long time before I even knew.
@@honestlyali27 um no. I don't think it's cool to make theories on someone's sexuality, point blank. Period. How would you like it if someone did that to you?
I honestly think the whole karlie thing can be summed up by this one Taylor lyric: “when words of a sister come back in whispers that proves she was not. Not in fact what she seemed, not a twin from your dreams, she was a crook who was caught.”
I hesitated watching this. As a longtime swiftie this topic has always made me feel alienated. I was apart of a "Gaylor" community and that was back when it seriously only meant you were a queer fan of Taylor and we enjoyed our own personal interpretation of the music. Now it is SO SO SOOO divorced from the original meaning.
I truly think Karlie and Taylor were together at some point and that taylor might be bi (though is NONE of my business) but this conspiracy with karlie's children is just ridiculous. this woman just had her second baby and they were talking about the daisies on her baby shower cake being for taylor like,...... thats too much
That brief description of not knowing you’re not straight yet but having a really intense platonic friendship that ended with a breakup made me have the moment today, eight years later, going “huh yeah, I was really into him. I wonder what he’s up to?”
The whole Gaylor thing is so problematic and harmful, not just to Taylor, but also to the LGBTQ community. On top of that, it’s all a reach and a mixture of the power of suggestion, wishful thinking, believing everything you read in TikTok comments, and confirmation bias. It’s extremely un-politically correct and honestly makes me furious that people are hijacking her lyrics in a DESPERATE attempt to dismiss her relationship in order to fetishize her former friendship. Its almost biphobic. I have friends who act OFFENDED if you don’t believe in Gaylor. It’s like I’m watching them in a cult. Taylor really needs to come forward and tell people to knock it off. It’s out of control.
The amount of mental gymnastics and ignoring of blatant reality some people will engage in to validate their predetermined worldview is pretty scary tbh.
the thing that bothers me about new age gaylors is that they’re genuinely convinced they’re the smartest people on the planet while simultaneously saying the most bat shit insane things 😭
not a huge taylor swift fan but i am a lesbian and gaylor theories have never made sense to me because she doesn't seem gay/bi?? so many of her songs are about men she's dated and becomes genuinely emotional about- there's really no reason to believe she's a lesbian. i've always kind of viewed her friendships as very typical, straight women besties who are comfortable being close with each other and having little in-jokes. it's entirely possible she's bi but the way she kinda dodges a lot of direct answers on the queer community and such screams staight ally to me.
I wanted to take a moment to tell you how much I love your videos. At this point I’ve nearly watched everything you have available, it hits the perfect tone for me of great listenable essays that are light hearted and super interesting. So many of the things you talk about I’ve never heard of or knew very little about and you cover it all so well. Your videos are just fabulous and thank you for making them!!
I found your channel a few days ago and I’m obsessed. I’ve been looking a fill for my “long form commentary, but a break for true crime, but not soo deep it’s 8 hour videos on television show that require constant attention, and surface enough for easy listening” void. Excited to binge more!
Okay so...I was a hardcore Kaylor. Around the time 1989 came out, I was a sad, scared bi teenager and desperate for representation. The idea that Taylor could be bi like me and experiencing some of the same feelings I felt was comforting and exciting and I got sucked into the cult pretty hard. I have to say though, I never liked TTB or the way people talked about Taylor's other relationships (even if I personally didn't like Calvin Harris). I got out once I realized that speculating like that about a real person's life was wrong. I couldn't in good conscience keep talking that way and continue claiming I loved Taylor. I think this whole thing was certainly a product of its time and it's insane people still believe some of this. What a trip down memory lane!
In the event Taylor were queer, *why would anyone want to expose that*? Outing people against their will is so traumatizing, I know someone who killed themselves over it. If you think someone's queer and they're in the closet, respect that! WTF is wrong with people?
no one in the general public would ever be able to "out" Taylor Swift because outing someone implies that you have access to information other people don't have access to, like if Taylor Swift directly told you about her sexuality which isn't the case for gaylors, they have access to exactly the same information as anyone else that's not close to her. again only people close to her like friends or family or anyone who were to know about Taylor's queerness would be able to "out" her
@@grahamgraham2077 assuming these crazies were right about Taylor and somehow caught her on camera with a girl, they would absolutely be willing and able to out her. Obviously a deeply closeted person wouldn't let themselves be spotted, but the point is these 'fans' don't actually care about their faves' feelings. Speculating like this can be just as uncomfortable for someone coming to terms with their sexuality.
What’s really sad is the Gaylors who get so into it that you can tell they’ll be mad at Taylor for being straight and brushing their egos by not validating their conspiracy theories.
exactly this! so many of them say if it was ever somehow 100% confirmed that taylor is straight they would "unstan" because somehow that makes her a horrible person lol. some nonsense about "queerbaiting" because of how THEY CHOSE to interpret some of her lyrics
Man i would love for you to do an update on this of the last couple years, especially with how much tiktok has blown up gaylor theory and some of the gaylors believing 🎃 (another TTB) and trying to pretend like they didn’t it’s been insane and interesting to watch
Watching a reupload of a cideo you’ve already seen with ads on to make sure creators you like get that engagement - it’s not much, but it’s honest work
this was fascinating, i love hearing about fandom drama like this. i'd be super interested to see you cover the one direction babygate thing, it reminded me of this.
I personally find it so weird and hypocritical that so many people say "do not out people or assume peoples sexuality" but apparently it's fine to out and assume things of celebrities.
I'm just so tired of living in the current time in which people think they can only relate to (any form of) art if the artist/representor of said art is exactly what they are (ethnicity, gender, sexuality, etc.). I miss the time in which people were able to relate to art independently of who and what the artist is.
i hate people like gaylors. people who harass celebrities about their relationships being gay will likely either succeed in (1) forcefully outing someone or (2) straining a platonic relationship. people need to mind their own business
Meanwhile you’re out here hating people? I don’t think that the gaylors, as a whole, are “harassing” taylor about anything. Nobody has access to her in any meaningful way whatsoever to the point that they could realistically “out” her. But I definitely see how it could put strain on a platonic relationship. That, I agree with. But, I think that all this could potentially be solved if people didn’t feel like they have to literally fear admitting that they were involved in a same sex relationship.
@@JRay.R Okay, yes, the world would be better if people could admit they were in a same sex relationship without fearing the backlash. But it would also be better if people stop sticking their noses into other people's sexualities. Speculating about someone's sexuality is invasive and rude, especially when you're going through every little action they made and say every straight relationship they had is fake. Maybe she is bi or pan or gay. Or maybe she is actually straight. Why does it matter? Does it change the way you look at her or how her songs sound? If it does, it probably has something to do with you and how you view yourself than Taylor Swift. No one's outing her, yes, but you are definitely pressuring her to publicly announce her sexuality.
@@imlike_tt3428 no I’m not. Your attitude is misdirected. I’m literally not doing any of the things you’re talking about. If you’re going to try to teach someone a lesson, at least pick someone who is actually acting in accordance with your list of complaints. I’m not pressuring Taylor to do anything. Did you even read my comment?
@@JRay.R Really? So you aren’t pressuring her when you look at every little thing she does with her friends? When you connect things to fit your narrative knowing she has asked people to stop doing that? You aren’t disrespecting her by disregarding every straight romantic relationship she has? You aren’t pressuring her when purposely ignoring her words so you can continue to speculate on her sexuality? I did read your comment, and you said she can’t be outed unless someone who knows her personally outs her. I’m not saying you’re outing her, I’m saying you’re pressuring her and that causes her harm. Gaylors come up with “sources close to her” that confirms what they think her sexuality is. Do you think that would not cost Taylor distress if she heard that? Do you think it isn’t annoying for her to have to think about whether she can hugs her friends or not because her fans might say she’s dating them? That she has to think of how her words might sound so people don’t think she’s queerbaiting but also that she’s in a same sex relationship?
real person shippers & gaylors in general freak me out. reminds me of larries, ive nver been into harry styles but all of the theories about them freak me out
“When the words of a sister comes back in whispers that proves she was not in fact what she seemed not a twin from your dreams she’s a crook who was caught”. They were just best friends that felt like soul mates.I had a friend like that at 13 yo
what i never got about gaylor is that if you truly believe she is queer the fact she doesn't about it and tells people not to ship her with her friends show she might not want to be out in the public eye? so like posting stuff about how you think her and x are dating kinda disrespectful if i was keeping it a secret i was queer from my fans i probably wouldn't like people making those posts about me? idk that's just always been my thought process if i believed she was queer (i really don't have an opinion) i probably wouldn't make public posts about ot
the standard response i see to this from gaylors on twitter is that "being gay is not a bad thing so outing someone/speculating on their sexuality is fine, and if you disagree you're homophobic" somehow 😐😭
propably because this video discusses the most extreme people in a group. most gaylors roll their eyes when someone thinks question..? is about harry styles then move on.
As a Taylor Swift fan (been listening to her since Fearless came out), I personally feel embarrassed and inadequate compared to my fellow Swifties for not even knowing about this Gaylor/Kaylor stuff until 2021. I don't really know how I missed it. Prior to 2022, I didn't even know who Karlie was. I was just listening to Taylor's music under a rock this whole time. In my defense, I don't really keep up with the personal lives of celebrities, even the ones I really like, like Taylor Swift. It's just not that interesting to me most of the time, and I'd rather focus on the art they're making.
Been following Taylor since like, Speak Now and I also didn't know about the theories or much about Karlie other than she was a person that exists until like 2018 when I was looking for interpretations of Reputation lyrics to see what other people thought and found a lot of speculation of the songs being about Karlie which made me fall into the rabbit hole to see what was going on. I think gaylors used to stay contained in their own spaces but have become louder/more visible in recent years for ???????? reasons?????
I mean that's the normal way to engage with celebrity culture. This fandom stuff feels very bizarre like surely there must be more going on in these fan's lives.
Josh and Karlie were really out here spreading Covid rather than admit to being gay. They were doing too much 😤😤😤 LMFAOOO but in all seriousness, thank you for the deep dive!!
Ashley you are honestly my favourite creator at the moment, I really love how much detail and time goes into your videos !! This one was a wild ride, thank u for the insight into this niche fandom xxx
I knew people liked to speculate that TSwift might be queer...I didn't expect antisemitic Trump conspiracy theories...swifties are a different breed man
What is it with the tumblr environment that has a bunch of people concocting relationship conspiracies between real people (DnP, Lauren/Camilla, Larry, Kaylor)? Personally don’t really care about the actual identities of these people beyond what they’ve actually revealed publically. With that being said, it’s extremely shitty to try to “figure out” a person’s identity. Very concerning that a ot of these conspiracies would also include a ton of biphobia.
Omg, the platonic relationship that you have a break up and eventually go "…huh" when you realize it might have been more. Damn, never had it explained but now I definitely know I’ve had that experience lol😂
Thanks to HelloFresh for sponsoring today's video. Go to strms.net/AshleyNortonHelloFreshJanuaryYT and use code POGASHLEYJAN21 for 21 free meals plus free shipping!
Commenting for the algorithm 🥳
I didn't get the feud either but then I found out recently that Katy Perry dated John Mayer right after Taylor did and Katy actually still liked him and said nice things about after she broke up with him. So i think that's what caused the drama/feud
Horrible company that treats its workers like dirt
Better than Amazon at unionbusting
Slayy ❤❤😂🎉
also if karlie and taylor were secretly married and trump knew about it there is no way in hell he would ever keep that a secret
The FBI was actually looking for signs TS was gay
@@sarahlaurent62 Elaborate
@@joslynk9951 no
@@sarahlaurent62 ok so you’re trolling 💀
@@sarahlaurent62lol what? the FBI has bigger issues to deal with and not a celebrity
Donald Trump keeping a secret is the most damning evidence this was someone's fantasy
I get the joke here, but you're delusional if you don't think trump is keeping secrets hahaha. He was lifelong friends with Jeffrey Epstein...
not u being named hillary
Trump supporter and I still agree 😂
@@cepopeyewhy are you watching this content if you support trump? This video involving racism, homophobia, antisemitism, lying, and manipulation of facts ???? Think a little
@@VultureSkins because maybe they like taylor swifts music lol
I do love how the two biggest theories about Taylor are she's queer and that she's a regular 4chan user...
the duality of man
Anyone want to give a brief summary of the 4chan theory for this nonswiftie 👀
@@mcgheebentle1958 Someone made some 4chan posts pretending to be Taylor posting images that supposedly didn't exist anywhere online. Moot stepped in and said it was fake.
@@peterkerj7357 lol thanks xx
💀 being a swiftie has made my life significantly worse 😭😭😭
if i had a nickel for every time a fandom was convinced their fave was in a secret gay relationship that all came to a head with a supposedly fake baby, i'd have 2 nickels which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice
Technically 3 because if we are talking about Kaylor and Larry…. Add Ziam to that because when Bear was born SO many people were like… fake baby number 2 for 1D boys… I can’t remember if the same thing happened when Khai was born (since the Ziam ‘truthers’ were always less… loud as the Larry tinhats.)
Oh, Supernatural fandom has like 6 fake babies.
Bro one d had Larry ziam and some even shipped zarry it was so wild
@@quadling3521 SPN fake babies have fake babies. They're on fake grandchildren. 😂
I would have many. Literally every famous celeb at some point had gay rumors going on about them. Starting from asap rocky to kanye to zac effron to shawn mendez to jake gyllenhal to andrew garfield to daniel radcliff to taylor lautner. And many many more. Even in the youtuber and tiktoker fandoms that i am in, there's gay rumors about every other one of them.And these rumors are based on the most baseless far fetched connections they can make. The reasons can be as asinine as the "guy wore no-show socks" or "has a pretty body" or my personal favorite is "he just looks fruity". This is a going on like a pandemic. It's at an obsessive level with every famous and hot celeb. It's always the hottest guys/girls with lots of fan following that get picked for these rumors.
when i saw the first version got deleted i was scared for you girlboss i thought they locked you up
Haven't got me yet. appreciate you. youtube is not my friend today
@@ashleynortonhow do we know this is the real ashley?
@@roadlizard2651Her name is highlighted with a check mark.
I know you feel like that's not a guarantee, but her content since then shows fearlessness in covering online fandom, which is her brand, so...
@@ashleynortonyou’re very pretty Ashley I really like your hair
good to know some parts of tumblr are still as insane as in 2015
some things never change
strange eons has some great tumblr content and some of it is of stuff that happened recently!
I didn’t realize the Gaylor Accusations went so deep and deluded omg. I’m very scared of real person shippers.
We should've of learnt after everything with Dan and Phil and Markiplier and JackSepticEye in like 2016, and the whole Larry and the fake baby ordeal. Alas, we have not
@@sincerelykokomo852 Dan and Phil?
so much hate and assumptions lol ua-cam.com/video/IMUypKaOP7Q/v-deo.html
@@_jolie_ while they have both come out as gay in recent years, fans went rabid in trying to prove they were gay and secretly dating, especially in 2012-2016 tumblr years despite both of them expressing that they were very private people. It got so bad you could see it really affected Dan especially, who had struggled with internalised homophobia after growing up being bullied. Like even though some of the fans were "right" that the boys were gay, they essentially objectified them and fetishised them, reducing them to only their sexuality and potential relationship. As a queer person myself, I understand wanting representation of those you admire, but the way they were treated was not okay
@@sincerelykokomo852 Yeah. To me, Dan and Phil is sort of the worst one of the list, because it really just drives home that... like, what if you were correct about all that insane stuff you are saying? What if it was all atually true? Would that make it okay to say it? No, obviously not!
At the time I felt like the argument against rp shipping was mostly "What if they _aren't_ gay and together, you're making their friendship uncomfortable, you might ruin their actual relationships with other people". Which is also true and has also happened. But being correct almost makes it even worse.
I also assumed we had learned from all of that, but I've had encounters with Minecraft UA-cam fans in the last few years and nope, nothing has been learned at all. The Minecraft Boys have probably overtaken Dan and Phil by now in terms of how many fanfics there are about them on AO3.
I assumed this was gonna be some 2013 tumblr lore i somehow avoided. EXCUSE ME, 2019? The pandemic exists in the same timeline as a Taylor Swift shipping blog?
Wait omg when you put it like that … damn
It’s all still alive and growing in other online spaces like Reddit
I was never into Taylor Swifts music so I only learned about this a while ago on TikTok. Fucking weird to me how people that age can act like that. Reminds me a lot of what happened with Dan and Phil the UA-camrs there was an entire blog with a password that collected "evidence". I remember seeing that still being around as late as 2018 maybe it's still a thing. This was before either of them ever came out btw.
@@DieAlteistwiederda that's what I'm saying. I thought we left this behavior in the past.i thought we learned from the Dan and Phil stans
@@johanabi reddit? goddamn they went deep. thats the first layer of hell
I just….if the gaylors are right, and she’s queer on some level, what then? Like largely we agree outing people is bad, so if you’re right and she eventually gets so fed up she says “yep, you were right, I like women” - what then?? Do you date Taylor Swift? No. So let the lady live. If the song speaks to you, let it speak to you.
they justify it by saying that they're not outing her, because they think taylor is already out to the fans who she wants to be out to. which is...... not delusional at all 😀
Tbh I think the main reasons people are Gaylors is because other swifties will get mad if you interpret a song as queer
@@ophemusic WILD
@@ophemusic no one in the general public can "out" her because no one knows her personally hope this helps
@@ophemusic oh hey dude we're twotter and tiktok mutuals!
Historically, beard marriages tend to be a lot less emotionally fraught than Taylor's relationships with men have been. Like why does she care so much about Jake Gyllenhaal if he's just her beard?
I know, I'm sure they've got an answer to this.
They’d say those songs were never about him to begin with lol
Jake wasn't a beard. That doesn't mean others weren't beards.
@@technicolortabby4239 get a job
Never heard of bisexuality?
@@AmIWhatAndWhyyeah, but this comment is a question about the thought process of people who think he's a beard, and therefore think she's not interested in him (or any man) romantically.
Came to laugh at a tumblr subculture that I’ve only experienced as briefly and fearfully as a passing shark fin, stayed for the dawning realization that this was basically QAnon for Swifties
had this exact thought midway through--QAnon for Swifties
EXACT same thought. Spade's "riddles" are just Q-drops lmao
THIS is my exact thought. When my friend first brought it up to me, it made me think "conspiracy theories are okay as long as they are girly pop"
As a swiftie who stays away from gaylor stuff, it really was the QAnon for a chunk of the fanbase but most of the fanbase still finds it dumb and delulu clowning.
that is true actually
I have to save the pinned comment for the ad. But genuinely so sorry about the confusion/restriction issues and thank you to everyone who came back to watch the vid. I really wish there was more communication on youtube's end as to what the problem is/was.
Don’t worry we’ll watch the repost for you!
didn't think taylor swift gay theories would turn out to be a garden variety antisemitic conspiracy theory but here we are
I think if they did date they are no longer together. Them having a baby together is ridiculous as fuck. I have no clue how some people truly believe these things
One of my favorite pieces of “evidence” for Gaylor, is that Gold Rush (an absolute bop) is composed so that the beat matches perfectly with Karlie Kloss’s model walk. No ma’am, it’s literally a standard pop beat.
Taylor has always experienced scrutiny when it comes to her relationships, and it’s honestly so sad. Even if Taylor falls under the queer umbrella, why do we have the right to out her?
LMAO, proves me right for looking for gaylor thories whenever I want to have a good laugh
interesting you are talking about gold rush which talks about a hair falling into pieces like dominoes, i don't think joe's hair was that long for it to fall like dominoes😂
@@plant6635 Also „everybody wants you“? Nobody wanted Joe. It would be more fitting to international supermodel Karlie Kloss
@@plant6635 it could be about her, but also, joe did have longer hair growing up, that like shaggy boy band cut. idk about the "everybody wonders what it would be like to love you" line tho lol
@@felicia7302 she was jealous of him all the time, she pretty much told this at a recent concert when she said gorgeous was about how stupid you act when you think someone is hot
I'd be far more likely to believe, from her lyrics, that Taylor Swift has a problem with alcohol than to believe she's gay.
Oh jeah, it sounds like she finally done being casual and romatisicing about it tho.
She has a problem with alcohol because she’s constantly being forced to wear a mask pretending she’s straight and begging some man to marry her and have babies - it would drive anyone to drink🤬
Uh yeah for sure. Her needing to quit drinking in order to do her Eras tour add extra weight
"I was a functional alcoholic 'til nobody noticed my new aesthetic..." 💀
and you got it right! lmfao she loves herself her white wine
On Twitter one time I saw someone who said they had no idea what a “gaylor” actually was and thought it just meant a gay Taylor Swift fan so they had been calling themself that for months… I still think about them sometimes
Tbh the biggest proof against Karlie and Taylor being in a relationship is the implication that if they were Trump would know about it and he didn’t say anything. As if that wouldn’t immediately have been a tweet.
Especially when Taylor openly criticized him.
i was never into taylor swift but this brings me back to my larry phase. theorists on youtube and wattpad really had 12 year old me fully convinced louis tomlinson had faked the existence of a whole ass baby. it was wild lmao
i was a larrie too help 😭 i feel awful abt it now but i was so convinced as an impressionable teenager
It's still going on, I saw a video a couple days ago of someone claiming the two were secretly married or something. (It might've been satire but it really didn't seem like it 😭😭)
Omg I was a Larry too 😳
larries still exist and think they’re married😭😭😭 like bffr i thought we were over this like 10 years ago
the fact that young girls that didn't even saw 1d being active believe in larry is wild to me at least us that were there have something to grab
This is such a peculiar thing because even if we do assume that Swift is queer, which is objectively none of our business, then the people who are dedicating all of this time to "prove" that their fave is queer are devoting all of their time to outing a person who they believe to be gay against her will. Do they not see the harm in this? Outing somebody is incredibly dangerous, and even if you assume that "no one will care" or have a negative opinion, that is still in no way information that you are permitted to share. My mom outted me as gay to her family (who are openly conservative) when I was a kid without even telling me until years later and to this day I feel violated because of that.
That's kind of what I was thinking too, which is why I'm kind of on the fence about people who who do this with their favorite artists. Speculating that someone might be queer is one thing, but doing all of this investigating to say, "I know she's in a relationship with (blank). I have proof!" and also stating your theories as fact feels very icky. Seems ironic that some of these people claim that they're supposedly so against outing regular gay people but then turn around and do it to celebrates, and it's normalized??
If Taylor comes out as gay or bi, I will be happy for her for finally having the courage to do so, and I think it would be fine if people said, "I knew it!", but in the meantime, I say let her reveal this in her own time, when she's ready.
there’s a difference between outing and picking up on flagging. i’m not a swiftie, just a casual observer of this whole thing, but as a lesbian it is very obvious to me that’s what taylor is doing. outing is sharing information that someone had disclosed to you privately and spreading that to others. everything that taylor has done that has lead others believe she might be queer have been things that she has voluntarily presented to the public (using well-known queer phrases in lyrics, wearing a bi pride bracelet, writing romantic songs using feminine pronouns, etc.) the two are simply scenarios are simply not comparable.
@@lesbianjimmyfallon this is what i was going to say until i read your username and now we have to fight each other to the death how dare you bring that man into the fold
@@lesbianjimmyfallon’m also a lesbian (and somewhere in between swiftie and a casual observer lol) and while i understand what you’re saying, i disagree with you. some of the “flags” are more questionable than others, but every single one of them can be reasonably explained by something else that doesn’t have to do with taylor herself being queer and i fully believe that is on purpose. taylor thinks things through VERY carefully and is obviously very aware of her image and self presentation. while it’s very possible she may be attempting to “signal,” i feel like the fact that it’s merely signals and not anything overtly concrete is a very important piece of information in this whole thing. if she is queer and wants everyone to know, she would have made it clear already. there are a lot of reasons she might be engaging in this flagging behavior, some i approve of more than others (but only one i would entirely disapprove of and that’s purposely sending signals to appeal to a queer audience knowing she herself is not queer which i do not believe is the correct explanation). i have my own personal thoughts and feelings on it, but that’s all they are. Personal Thoughts and Feelings. talking about the flags themselves, the imagery, the phrases, etc is one thing, but i think it’s quite another to publicly apply whatever conclusions we personally come to onto taylor herself. she is sharing what she wants to share, no more, no less, and i believe that ascribing anything more to her than that isn’t a good idea. it is still outing or attempting to out until a person comes out themselves, regardless of how many “signs” there are
@@mynameisreallycool1i honestly even think speculating (outwardly) is a little weird but that might just be me. when i identified as bi i was uncomfortable with my friends being like “honestly i think maybe you just don’t even like men at all and haven’t figured everything out yet” and while they are my friends and meant well And ended up being correct, that was for me to figure out and announce on my own and at the time it made me more confused and anxious about my identity. i can’t imagine having thousands and thousands of strangers speculating on my identity all the time, even if they’re NOT going about it by saying “here’s proof she’s actually in a relationship with x or identifies as y” yknow
Shipping actual human beings together is creepy, at best. At worst, it's downright cruel. You're essentially making it awkward for people to interact with their co-workers, be affectionate to their friends, or God forbid make eye-contact with another person in the public eye. And, in the case of queer speculation, if these people ARE queer, it is absolutely disgusting to out someone against their will.
Even if you think you’re coming from a place of love and support, it is NEVER ok to try to force someone out of the closet.
picking up on intentional queer flagging and references to queer history, slang, literature and cinema in songs can't objectively force an a+ lister that we don't know personally out of the closet. gaylors don't even expect Taylor to come out and no one who doesn't know her personally can out her that's not how it works
How many times will we have to tell you that we are not outing anyone? We are the FIRST ones to say that she doesn't owe ANYONE a coming out and she doesn't have to do it if she doesn't want to. We also cannot out her because we don't know her personally and she hasn't directly told us "yes, I'm queer". We are just picking up on years and years of queerflagging and discussing it on OUR community.
@@anna-cp7fr talking about it and speculating on it to the extent that many gaylors do is still a form of outing... please take some antipsychotics
@@grahamgraham2077 hey so, y’all need therapy.
taylor swift outed herself when she liked a post during pride month in 2019 saying she was 🌈🌈🌈🌈 and 🌈🌈🌈🌈 and it shows. you can look it up and find the post she still has it liked.
ahhh yes the gaylors. memories of people calling me homophobic on tiktok because i said it’s terrible to be actively wishing for the downfall of her het relationships. after the drama of the break up now i’ve seen videos of gaylors actually saying how happy they are a 6 year relationship ended….
Any phobia or bias is coming from the gaylors.
FOR REAL
I saw a video that called Joe an emotionally manipulative toxic man who basically brainwashed Taylor into thinking she was straight. You know, Joe, her longest standing relationship to date with 4 albums full of songs about how much they were in love and how he was there for her at her darkest times. The one who went to all of her concerts, introduced her to his family, basically stood up for her when the whole world hated her and her career was almost over. Such a fake relationship am I right? Like who would want that? And that Taylor broke up with him because she "woke up" and now she and Karlie are going to be happy ever after.
@@imlike_tt3428 There was a gaylor on tiktok saying Taylor is still in a relationship with Karlie but it’s private. One comment said “i was worried since Karlie announced she’s pregnant again but this is calming me” WHAT!? even Karlie being married and pregnant and Taylor having a whole love life with men can’t have them see how delusional and ridiculous they sound. And they will never hesitate to call you homophobic for saying it’s strange to make all these theories about her FRIENDS.
Joe is bi. TS never lived at the same property in Lavender Hill. She was with Diana at the time. Joe only agreed to it because he wanted to be a famous actor. It didn’t work.
honestly the most shocking thing about this isn't the fact that its happening, but that TTB is in her mid-30s, an age at which we can make a general assumption entails a career and maybe even a family. who has the time...
fr like all that i was thinking throughout the video was "does this woman have a job?"
she could be a stay at home mom
@@_jolie_ still who has the time💀
@@_jolie_ Don't stay-at-home moms have like more things to do?
Well she said she's in her mid-30s, that could very well be a lie to give herself more credibility. I'm convinced she's actually just a teen with nothing else to do.
I really need people to understand that outing women is just as dangerous as outing men. Yes our society is more accepting than ever before about homosexuality, but there are still a lot of bigots in the world, and people’s lives can be negatively impacted by being outed against their will, no matter what their gender is.
Yeah I’m not sure if she really is but if I were famous I’d have to keep it a secret due to family members. It’s ruin my personal life so if she is keeping it a secret for her own reasons it’s better not to get obsessed
I think it’s obvious she’s straight and you can’t out someone whose so. But I know a ton of people will aggressively disagree with me.
Ur name 💀
@@CMThota taylor gayhart ☠️
Being gay in Western countries isn’t dangerous anymore
As a bisexual who recently become a swiftie (love her since Red era but not fully swiftie yet in that time), I'm annoyed by gaylors speculating Taylor's sexuality. Never forget what happened to the Heartstopper actor for being accused queerbaited and his immature fans forced him to come out. This is why real people cannot queer bait.
I mean, real people can queerbait lmao. Misha Collins, Travis McElroy, Nicki Minaj. It’s all just funny to look back on and ridiculous that they do it to get attention. But it is absolutely a “thing”. 😂😅 The Misha one in particular is a Tumblr meme of his Twitter post at this point.
Edit: Also the porn industry has a term-gay for pay. Again, it’s harmless. Pays the bills baby.
the thing about kit connor, he was acussing of QUEERBAIT, the gaylors dont think taylor is doing queerbait, they think she is queer.
@@asmrtpop2676 wait how the fuck did travis mcelroy queerbait ive never heard this
@@iwakeupandboomimarathe didn’t, it’s so dumb. He expressed that Harry Styles was attractive but said he was totally straight. Slightly cringe cliche? Yes. Queerbaiting? Absolutely not. People who find Travis annoying or whatever want to find something that seems oBjEcTiVeLy PrObLeMaTiC instead of simply admitting that it’s just their opinion.
@@asmrtpop2676 yes but it does WAYYYY more harm to say that anyone who says they’re gay that they’re just queer baiting than it does for people to queerbait IMO. it’s smthn we just have to take it at face value. i believe dan howell said how much it pushed him back in the closet when people said he was queerbaiting, so i suggest we be careful and accept the person.
i’m new to the fandom and came across a gaylord podcast that just baffled me. as a queer person i was absolutely jaw-dropped when i found out there is an entire community dedicated to these theories that are just REACHING 😭 there are so many queer ppl in the music industry that we can look to as representation, there’s no need to try and force a straight woman to be gay, this community is so insane to me
seeing this notification gave me like. a trauma response. I got super obsessed w and hyperfixated on Gaylor/taylor in general in senior year of high school (i was having a bad time), and so of course i followed TTB until her insane and horrible opinions couldnt judt be attributed to her posting every anon she was ever sent and she doubled down over and over on the biphobia and antisemitism and also just. batshit insane theories that she clung to rather than just accepting that karlie and taylor either broke up or never had the relationship we assumed they did. I think part of it was sunk cost fallacy but a huge section of it was also definitely the power rush she got from being this "secret informant" and figure of power in this small community. It really was some weird cult/hyperconspiracy shit, and the structure of Spade riddles really is unsettlingly similar to Q drops and can be analyzed through that same sort of gamefied conspiritorial thought even if one is clearly less severe or (lets be real) important than the other. Fascinating video, and i appreciate the more respectful and sympathetic tone you took! sorry for writing a lot but i hope ur having a good one 👍
i’m not done with the video so your comment made me go “WHAT”
@b8376 yeah thats fair
Trauma response 🥴 it's wild what some people will call trauma now. It's lost all meaning. Just means something that made you think about something cringe you did and you feel embarrassed, but not enough to not tell everyone about it. That's not a trauma response. It's a normal human reaction.
I always thought of Taylor as the straightest woman I had ever seen. like, absolutely nothing ever gave me gay vibes about her. god forbid you’re a girl’s girl and close to your girlfriends😂 another fact about Taylor is like you said, her easter eggs aren’t the Da Vinci code. they’re usually right there. she’s not going to make these intricate hidden messages about her sexuality 🤣
I absolutely agree with you. I am the girliest straight married woman you’ve ever seen lol. Favorite color is pink, teal and lavender. My whole wardrobe is pink and lavender! And in my 20s I was super close to my girlfriends and would dance provocative with them at clubs and parties, that does not mean I’m gay or bisexual or anything other that straight! It’s silly and stupid to try and force a label on someone.
LOLOL maybe for u but not Taylor . 😂
@@CelinaSharp No offence but I kind of sense some homophobia in this paragraph...Sorry if I'm wrong, but saying "I have plenty of friends, that doesn't mean I'm GAY" seems pretty judgmental. It's okay to be any sexuality, and I hope you believe that. Also girly ≠ straight.
Thank you. I have a *super* close friend, Like platonic soul mate vibes. We just get each other. But people at out high school and the middle school we went to, people always think we're dating. I mean on a certain level we understand why people think that, we hold hands all. The. Time. And are like practically joined at the hip. But still every once in awhile it gets a little irritating everyone thinking that were dating. Because I'm straight and for the most part my friend likes men too. I mean we always laugh it off because it is actually kind of funny that people think we're dating. I've moved on from being annoyed to laughing at it. But it still does beg the question of why can't people be close without dating rumors spiraling. And that goes for anyone celebrities or just people at a high school or middle school. Because even friends of the opposite gender have to face these rumors. They can never just be close friends. For some reason 'either one or both parties have to secretly secretly have a crush on the other'.
Sorry for this fat rant. It's just something that bugs me a little bit. Let close friends be close friends.
@@yerinbaekscandlelight girls girl just means not a pick me. not girly.
gosh i fell down the ttb rabbithole when i was in high school. i was coming into my own queer awakening and i kind of projected that onto taylor's songs at the time, and it didn't help that she was in such a pro-lgbtq era at the time-- it made me think huh, maybe she is just like me. anyway, i believed some of the gaylor stuff for a little while, but then the conspiracies became wayyyy too paralleled to Q, which my parents were into and i knew that was insane, and that parallel pulled me out of it. truly such an odd period in my life. after that i read ttb's blog to laugh at it, as it was so ridiculous-- i remember sending in asks to ttb with silly theories i thought were too crazy for her to post but sometimes she would post them and say like "hmm this is interesting." i thought it was funny that she would post mine when i was trying to somewhat troll her lol
I think this resumes the whole thing, people want to see themselves on the people they look up to or the media they consume so they start seeing patterns and clues that speak to them.
I feel this except it was Larry stylinson, still think they could’ve been involved somehow back in the day but not anymore. I came to my senses when people starting theorizing that Louis Tomlinsons baby was a doll
Q what? what theory is that?
@@Otra_Chica_de_Internet Qanon - that's a conspiracy theory that took a very weird and violent turn
@@Otra_Chica_de_Internet Q-Anon and boyyy does it get WEIRD.
I like that Spade's "insider information" asks have the same vibe as people trying to match Nostradamus's prophecies to historic and current events.
Reminds me SO MUCH of the CrissColfer fandom (Darren Criss & Chris Colfer). Darren was dating then married a woman named Mia and Chris was dating a man. People were CONVINCED these two were secretly together and that darren criss was gay-something he adamantly denied. It was so bad it broke their friendship apart. They couldn’t do anything in public without intense scrutiny.
Dear goodness? I know this is from like, 3 months ago, but if you ever see this, could you elaborate? All I know is that Chris Colfer is one of my favourite authors.. and that’s it. And that he apparently acted on Glee. Truthfully I don’t know what it is, maybe because I grew up in SEA and all i got was Doraemon and Shin chan.
It’s giving Camren (Camila and Lauren from fifth harmony)
@@siIhouettes Hi! So Abby isn’t quite right about why Chris and Darren’s friendship fell apart. Crisscolfer shippers were intense, for sure, but neither Chris or Darren have EVER said that’s why their friendship fell apart. Chris had a lot of problems with the writers on Glee considering they constantly made fun of his voice and appearance but Darren continued working with them. Darren was also highly favoured by the writers in regards to songs and promotion within the show, while Chris (like Dianna Agron) was brushed to the side and often mocked. Also, Chris has a book called Stranger than Fanfiction where a character that is based on him has issues with two of his co-stars who are pretty blatantly Lea and Darren. I think there was just always tensions between them, more so from Chris’ side. Darren’s always more upbeat and invested in their (now very very limited) interactions with each other so I don’t think it’s the shipping that ruined their friendship. I think it’s more to do with something that happened behind the scenes.
Also, another thing to be noted is a large part of Chris’ fandom ten years ago despised Darren. To the point they were sending him death threats and making images of him with bullet holes in his head because he got in the way of their glee ship, and I even remember some of them calling Chris a slut for being in his hotel room (with other people!) because Chris had started dating his boyfriend at the time. The Crisscolfer shippers were crazy for sure, but a lot of newer fans or more casual fans didn’t see just how intense some Chris fans were in their hatred towards Darren. It was genuinely crazy.
I think the fandom - both Crisscolfer shippers and rabid Darren haters - might have pushed a wedge into Chris and Darren’s friendship, I think it was much more. I think it’s to do with Darren’s continuous working relationship with Ryan Murphy (who wrote Glee) that drove them apart since Chris does have trauma from his time on Glee due to the intense fandom and how badly he was treated by the writers because it doesn’t seem to have the same effect on Darren. Darren is definitely way less distant than Chris is whenever they interact. Which does remind me of Karlie and Taylor. Karlie is less distant than Taylor and that’s because Taylor was the one who got hurt by Karlie. I think Chris got hurt by Darren and that’s what led to the breakdown of their friendship. Because they were like… best friends.
@@aerithcolfer3623 That's so sad but unfortunately it adds up with how a lot of Glee's former actors have described the working environment 😔
@@KateCat420 it is ;-; a lot of them had horrible experiences. Darren and Lea are probably the ones who had the best experiences but they still got it bad. Lea got antisemitic jokes made about her and Darren had a whole episode dedicated to calling him fat and acting like it was funny. I love the show but the writers were terrible
Last night, I saw a grown woman comparing being a gaylor to being a jew in the holocaust. I wish I was joking. She talked about how she had received death threats and felt unsafe for "just being herself" (she was talking about... thinking... taylor swift is gay..). It was odd. Like cmon, you are 21 years old why are you doing this?? I had family members pass in the holocaust.
Bestie I am BEGGING you for an update once the J/T breakup backlash inevitably turns into a swirling inferno of conspiracy theories
deuxmoi, a gossip blogger, posted about the break up. someone asked them if taylor is seeing someone and they respond with something like ”just seeing people. that’s it” and all the gaylors were commenting shit like “seeing means giving woman head🌈”
@@b8376 deuxmoi is not a reliable source at alll! they’ve spread a ton of false rumors! they’ll practically post anything sent to them whether it’s legit or not.
i’ve neverrr trusted what they say esp now with the joe/taylor breakup 😢 (which i’m absolutely heartbroken over)
@Cheese(Taylor's Version) ? they were calling DEUXMOI a gossip blog, which it literally is
i will never forget when a kaylor told me that they hope that my parents kick me out because of my bisexuality. i just said that we should respect taylor and joe’s relationship. fast forward a few months, i commented about that experience under a video talking about shipping taylor with people and a bunch of kaylors defended the original kaylor
Bro... what? They want Taylor to be queer but want a queer person to be KICKED OUT OF HOME? I bet they're to same people who accused Kit Connor of "queer baiting" because he wasn't comfortable coming out publicly yet.
@@sincerelykokomo852 i feel like these are the kind of gays who say “i’m wanted in multiple countries 😜😜”
Yikes..
The double standard, huh?
I definitely don't like those types of people at all.
I'm really starting to believe gaylors and kaylors are suffering from internal homophobia and needed someone to project it onto
I have been called “homophobic” for saying is disagreed with Gaylor theories. Like I’m also gay and I’m allowed to disagree without you taking my card away 😂
I’m a pretty big Swiftie. I think the biggest issue with gaylorism in the fandom that most normal, well adjusted, even queer folks have, is that a LOT of the rhetoric behind it is biphobic.
most gaylor swifties, at least on twitter, are level 3. personally, my main issue is not the speculation, its just really shitty to assume that 1. all outwardly “straight” relationships include onky straight people, and 2. someone who may have dated women can’t be happy with a man.
Same here - I just mute/block as many gaylors as possible because as a bi/pan/something like that (i dont really have a label) person who has dated both men and women, it feels like their belief is that because I've dated and am attracted to women, they would judge my current healthy relationship with my fiancé
Right. I consider myself a "bilor" but I also think all of her relationships with men have been/are real, authentic, romantic connections. I also am not adamant that she "is" any specific sexuality, and if she is, I don't want to "force" her out. I'd want her to come out on her terms. I just think a lot of her "gay" moments COULD be intentional flagging to the community. For me, I never came out. The people who were able to pick up on my flagging figured it out, and everyone else... maybe they'll realize one day. I don't think it's a reach to think Taylor could have a similar mindset. But I don't want to project onto anyone else or convince myself that what is, at the end of the day, my own personal speculation, is 100% absolutely the truth... because it could very likely not be.
most gaylors who believe her relationship with Joe might have been bearding don't believe so because she's can't possibly be bi. Bi people can beard depending on circumstances.
Their relationship just didn't add up for several other reasons
That's so true, I'm always thinking the easiest explanation is that someone's sexuality is a bit more fluid than just being straight or gay, but no people need to dig and make stuff up to put someone into a box.
THISSSS
Gaylor's are wild because taylor swift might be the most openly straight celebrity I've ever seen.
What a rabbit hole, thank you for taking us on this journey
I think a big part of the appeal of gaylor for young and closeted gay kids is the closeted aspect. They can imagine their idol being in the same situation as they are and get validation from the community for 'seeing the signs'. In these sort of things claiming that it's the 'hets' that don't get it etc. But YOU see it because you are queer and it makes them feel better when they are isolated. Which can be kinda terrible when it's gay kids being led around like this, especially by older people, who might even be cishet themselves.
They're not all that tho. Same thing with Larry and other spaces there's a lot of straight 30 something women in those spaces, and honestly a lot of it reads like fetishist content.
@@dia.96 Yep! It's really giving fetish from those straight folks but from the queer kids, yeah that mostly read as isolation for me. Like when you actually hang around queer people or straight women while being confortable in your skin and experiencing human relationships fully, you quickly realized how banal Taylor's friendship with women are. And one of the side effects of going outside and meeting real people is that you spend less time online scrutinizing stuff that don't matter. Ths level of projection on celebrities is ALWAYS born out of a feeling of emptiness.
@@KookiesNolly I mean star-crossed romances about two people who are "forbidden" from being openly together are still super popular regardless of if they're fetishized or not, or regardless if they're fictional characters or non-fictional people. The real-life element of seeing a closeted celebrity as queer adds an element of saviorism, too. It sounds like a romance novel except real life, and that is easily appealing to a lot of people (especially women who tend to be the target audience for romance stories). If you "understand" that two celebrities are secretly in-love before they reveal a romantic relationship publicly you feel like the hero
I was thinking, "Ah yes, 2015 tumblr antics haha good old days", but then the video mentioned 2019 and I was faced with the horrors of it.
I'll have you know this is far too relatable. I was thinking "damn swifties were crazy back then, hah" and my heart shattered when I learned it was FAR too recent
it's still going on to this day 😭
The wildest Gaylor related things I saw was when one of her dancers on the reputation tour got fired for posting r*pe jokes on his instagram story, and I legit saw a Gaylor tweet that they hoped he did a major TV interview and outed Taylor. My best friend is a Gaylor and she still sends me Gaylor posts to this day, but, I’m like…. Are Gaylors okay? Like truly?
regarding taylor and katys feud, people often say that it was about back up dancers or that taylor was jealous of her but i rather think it was about john mayer. when taylor and john were together she and katy were friends, taylor semi-publicly talked about how he treated her but katy still went and dated john mayer. if that happened to me id feel pretty betrayed too
Speaking of "gay celebrity conspiracy theories" I would love to see you do a deep dive into the Larry conspiracy as well. Or maybe even the Robert Patterson/Kristen Stewart conspiracy theory (apparently they never broke up after Twilight and have like three secret kids but Management (TM) won't let them be together).
please god no not the larries it’s genuinely terrifying
please no lets leave larry in the past, i am traumatised by my own obsession and the chokehold larry twitter had on me
NOOOO LARRIESSS AHHHH
I'm torn between wanting this deep dive and wanting to protect Ashley's sanity
@@ps1hagridoufofcharacter it's still a thing sadly
the weirdest thing about all the gay conspiracies is that it gets to a point where the person it’s about (if in the situation if they really are gay) either are even more terrified to come out or feel like they have to come out before they’re ready to do so. two examples of these things (in order) are dan & phil and kit connor
This is giving the same vibe as the Supernatural fandom’s “j2 tinhatters.” Those people ship the 2 male leads of the show and also think their wives are just beards despite the couples having multiple children and being together for at least a decade. It’s honestly really interesting from a psychology perspective to watch the complex story people make to lessen the cognitive dissonance they feel when the person they believe is queer does something that goes against their beliefs about the situation. It’s so dangerous though especially for the family of the people being shipped.
well i hope taylor karlie their two fake gay boyfriends/husbands and their two babies (one secret) had an amazing time during the holidays
🤨 she isn't a character for you to headcanon
@@avakoola idk if you are for real or not but i couldn't have been more obviously joking
The completely normal heterosexual urge to obsess over two women in a secret lesbian relationship 👀
Tiktok gaylor’s are unhinged
Women obsess over it too, no one watches more lesbian porn than straight women.
@@TruthBlissbut isn't that what the original commenter said? The "Women obsess over it too" part.
@@TruthBliss Hm, citation needed
@@TruthBliss not when straight men exist
The image of trump sitting on the white house computer from 2017 to 2020 ish constantly posting Kaylor theories on tumblr made me laugh so much. Thank you ♥️
i just want to say, as a queer person, i think this kind of shit is SO disrespectful. like imagine being taylor. say you are 100% straight but the entire world is saying every man youve ever loved is just a publicity stunt and ur dating all your close female friends - imagine how hard that would be, from a friendship and romantic relationship stand point. if it were me, i dont think id ever feel truly confident in my romantic or platonic relationships and i think thats so... sad. i dont think these people are fans of taylor as herself i think theyre fans of her as this made up person theyve created in their heads.
also its borderline homophobic to be entirely honest but im not going to write out an entire essay on that in a youtube comment 😭😭 i just think there are so many ACTUAL queer women you could be supporting to the moon and back but of course they choose to make up a queer icon to support instead - especially one who is currently in a VERY public relationship with a man. queer people DO exist in the industry, queer WOMEN. there are so many iconic queer people who deserve so much support but these fans actively choose to NOT support them and instead make up shit. its very telling to me that this isnt about gay representation as much as they say it is - forcing a straight woman into being gay is NOT celebrating queerness, it is not a good thing believe it or not.
Idk why but I cannot fathom a straight woman being obsessed with a lesbian relationship
How about the gaylors that are men? There’s quite a few bit of those and they’re as feral as any other gaylor. Which is creepy
@@BobsB0ners gay men I understand but straight men?? How do you even end up a gaylor
@@Yakutie a lot of gaylors are not very grounded to reality and probably read a lot of fan fictions tbh
@@BobsB0ners that’s true, a lot of delusion there
From what I’ve seen a lot of Gaylors are LGBTQ+… but it’s still weird no matter what their sexuality is
I am a swiftie, but the gaylors are something else... I genuinely cannot stand people who try to insist that someone is a sexuality when they've never come out as such.
me too queen i don’t understand it makes me so mad like what’s the point to lounge around and assume like if she is she’ll tell us when she’s ready and all these people are so concerned with her sexuality for what reason
@@sharidavis3906 same here. It feels so rude. Also, as someone who is in fact bisexual, I would've hated it if people had been speculating on my sexuality before I was ready to tell anyone. It took me a long time before I even knew.
I couldn’t agree more !
insisting is wrong but making a theory based on evidence as long as you make it clear that it could be 100% untrue is ok in my opinion
@@honestlyali27 um no. I don't think it's cool to make theories on someone's sexuality, point blank. Period. How would you like it if someone did that to you?
I honestly think the whole karlie thing can be summed up by this one Taylor lyric: “when words of a sister come back in whispers that proves she was not. Not in fact what she seemed, not a twin from your dreams, she was a crook who was caught.”
or maybe "I swear you could hear a hairpin drop" / "your finger on my hairpin trigger"
@@grahamgraham2077 oh my, stop
We don't deserve you Ashley. Thank you for putting soooo much time and energy into these videos. Keep making them and I will keep watching them
I hesitated watching this. As a longtime swiftie this topic has always made me feel alienated. I was apart of a "Gaylor" community and that was back when it seriously only meant you were a queer fan of Taylor and we enjoyed our own personal interpretation of the music. Now it is SO SO SOOO divorced from the original meaning.
I truly think Karlie and Taylor were together at some point and that taylor might be bi (though is NONE of my business) but this conspiracy with karlie's children is just ridiculous. this woman just had her second baby and they were talking about the daisies on her baby shower cake being for taylor like,...... thats too much
@@mariaeduardda3636
Most of the things said in this video , shown. and we listened to were completely unhinged behavior!
That brief description of not knowing you’re not straight yet but having a really intense platonic friendship that ended with a breakup made me have the moment today, eight years later, going “huh yeah, I was really into him. I wonder what he’s up to?”
It's gross that anyone thinks it's okay to speculate about someone's sexuality even remotely close to this degree. Leave people alone.
The whole Gaylor thing is so problematic and harmful, not just to Taylor, but also to the LGBTQ community. On top of that, it’s all a reach and a mixture of the power of suggestion, wishful thinking, believing everything you read in TikTok comments, and confirmation bias. It’s extremely un-politically correct and honestly makes me furious that people are hijacking her lyrics in a DESPERATE attempt to dismiss her relationship in order to fetishize her former friendship. Its almost biphobic. I have friends who act OFFENDED if you don’t believe in Gaylor. It’s like I’m watching them in a cult. Taylor really needs to come forward and tell people to knock it off. It’s out of control.
Please find God.
The amount of mental gymnastics and ignoring of blatant reality some people will engage in to validate their predetermined worldview is pretty scary tbh.
Damn, I honestly thought that we were getting a surprise part two when I saw this get uploaded.
lol maybe someday if youtube lets me
So nice we watch it twice! This video is very worth keeping up however you have to because I was absolutely educated.
we're back baby!!
the thing that bothers me about new age gaylors is that they’re genuinely convinced they’re the smartest people on the planet while simultaneously saying the most bat shit insane things 😭
not a huge taylor swift fan but i am a lesbian and gaylor theories have never made sense to me because she doesn't seem gay/bi?? so many of her songs are about men she's dated and becomes genuinely emotional about- there's really no reason to believe she's a lesbian. i've always kind of viewed her friendships as very typical, straight women besties who are comfortable being close with each other and having little in-jokes. it's entirely possible she's bi but the way she kinda dodges a lot of direct answers on the queer community and such screams staight ally to me.
Absolutely. I'm a lesbian too and this friendship looks extremely heterosexual to me. Everything about her does.
same, I'm married to a woman and have to read this nonsense that implies that people who dont believe gaylor theories are homophobic
Most of her songs these days are fictional
“Stop the hatred” immediately reminded me of glee when Brittany goes “stop the violence” while Santana and Quinn are fighting
“I joined the tribe” has gotta be the sweetest thing to say
I wanted to take a moment to tell you how much I love your videos. At this point I’ve nearly watched everything you have available, it hits the perfect tone for me of great listenable essays that are light hearted and super interesting. So many of the things you talk about I’ve never heard of or knew very little about and you cover it all so well. Your videos are just fabulous and thank you for making them!!
I found your channel a few days ago and I’m obsessed.
I’ve been looking a fill for my “long form commentary, but a break for true crime, but not soo deep it’s 8 hour videos on television show that require constant attention, and surface enough for easy listening” void.
Excited to binge more!
Okay so...I was a hardcore Kaylor. Around the time 1989 came out, I was a sad, scared bi teenager and desperate for representation. The idea that Taylor could be bi like me and experiencing some of the same feelings I felt was comforting and exciting and I got sucked into the cult pretty hard. I have to say though, I never liked TTB or the way people talked about Taylor's other relationships (even if I personally didn't like Calvin Harris). I got out once I realized that speculating like that about a real person's life was wrong. I couldn't in good conscience keep talking that way and continue claiming I loved Taylor. I think this whole thing was certainly a product of its time and it's insane people still believe some of this.
What a trip down memory lane!
the lords have blessed us today with an hour long ashley vid thanks chica
In the event Taylor were queer, *why would anyone want to expose that*? Outing people against their will is so traumatizing, I know someone who killed themselves over it. If you think someone's queer and they're in the closet, respect that! WTF is wrong with people?
no one in the general public would ever be able to "out" Taylor Swift because outing someone implies that you have access to information other people don't have access to, like if Taylor Swift directly told you about her sexuality which isn't the case for gaylors, they have access to exactly the same information as anyone else that's not close to her. again only people close to her like friends or family or anyone who were to know about Taylor's queerness would be able to "out" her
@@grahamgraham2077 assuming these crazies were right about Taylor and somehow caught her on camera with a girl, they would absolutely be willing and able to out her. Obviously a deeply closeted person wouldn't let themselves be spotted, but the point is these 'fans' don't actually care about their faves' feelings. Speculating like this can be just as uncomfortable for someone coming to terms with their sexuality.
What’s really sad is the Gaylors who get so into it that you can tell they’ll be mad at Taylor for being straight and brushing their egos by not validating their conspiracy theories.
exactly this! so many of them say if it was ever somehow 100% confirmed that taylor is straight they would "unstan" because somehow that makes her a horrible person lol. some nonsense about "queerbaiting" because of how THEY CHOSE to interpret some of her lyrics
@@mackenzie1845 did the gaylors tell you that ?
@@grahamgraham2077it was happening on tiktok in like october
i stg why do all conspiracy theories eventually wrap around to antisemitism
Yes, it sure seems thay way, huh?
This and your Larry video are bringing back such fond memories of scrolling thru these blogs long into the night and getting more and more bewildered
Man i would love for you to do an update on this of the last couple years, especially with how much tiktok has blown up gaylor theory and some of the gaylors believing 🎃 (another TTB) and trying to pretend like they didn’t it’s been insane and interesting to watch
Watching a reupload of a cideo you’ve already seen with ads on to make sure creators you like get that engagement - it’s not much, but it’s honest work
Already watched it but loving on the reupload for the algorithm 💓💓
appreciate you!
Me too!!!
this was fascinating, i love hearing about fandom drama like this. i'd be super interested to see you cover the one direction babygate thing, it reminded me of this.
OMFG yes
I was in the middle of watching the first upload while making dinner and was so confused. Now it's ready for me to sit down to eat and watch !
I personally find it so weird and hypocritical that so many people say "do not out people or assume peoples sexuality" but apparently it's fine to out and assume things of celebrities.
I'm just so tired of living in the current time in which people think they can only relate to (any form of) art if the artist/representor of said art is exactly what they are (ethnicity, gender, sexuality, etc.).
I miss the time in which people were able to relate to art independently of who and what the artist is.
commenting for engagement! it's so frustrating when youtube takes down videos like this, i'm sure it destroys the views. loved the video!!
i hate people like gaylors. people who harass celebrities about their relationships being gay will likely either succeed in (1) forcefully outing someone or (2) straining a platonic relationship. people need to mind their own business
Meanwhile you’re out here hating people?
I don’t think that the gaylors, as a whole, are “harassing” taylor about anything. Nobody has access to her in any meaningful way whatsoever to the point that they could realistically “out” her.
But I definitely see how it could put strain on a platonic relationship. That, I agree with.
But, I think that all this could potentially be solved if people didn’t feel like they have to literally fear admitting that they were involved in a same sex relationship.
@@JRay.R Okay, yes, the world would be better if people could admit they were in a same sex relationship without fearing the backlash. But it would also be better if people stop sticking their noses into other people's sexualities. Speculating about someone's sexuality is invasive and rude, especially when you're going through every little action they made and say every straight relationship they had is fake. Maybe she is bi or pan or gay. Or maybe she is actually straight. Why does it matter? Does it change the way you look at her or how her songs sound? If it does, it probably has something to do with you and how you view yourself than Taylor Swift. No one's outing her, yes, but you are definitely pressuring her to publicly announce her sexuality.
@@imlike_tt3428 no I’m not.
Your attitude is misdirected.
I’m literally not doing any of the things you’re talking about.
If you’re going to try to teach someone a lesson, at least pick someone who is actually acting in accordance with your list of complaints.
I’m not pressuring Taylor to do anything. Did you even read my comment?
@@JRay.R Really? So you aren’t pressuring her when you look at every little thing she does with her friends? When you connect things to fit your narrative knowing she has asked people to stop doing that? You aren’t disrespecting her by disregarding every straight romantic relationship she has? You aren’t pressuring her when purposely ignoring her words so you can continue to speculate on her sexuality? I did read your comment, and you said she can’t be outed unless someone who knows her personally outs her. I’m not saying you’re outing her, I’m saying you’re pressuring her and that causes her harm. Gaylors come up with “sources close to her” that confirms what they think her sexuality is. Do you think that would not cost Taylor distress if she heard that? Do you think it isn’t annoying for her to have to think about whether she can hugs her friends or not because her fans might say she’s dating them? That she has to think of how her words might sound so people don’t think she’s queerbaiting but also that she’s in a same sex relationship?
omg i had ten minutes left of this vid im so glad you reuploaded
sorry i left you on a cliffhanger!!
@@ashleynorton it’s okay it adds to the excitement😍🫶🏻 i love your videos so much
real person shippers & gaylors in general freak me out. reminds me of larries, ive nver been into harry styles but all of the theories about them freak me out
This is qanon for teenagers omfg
“When the words of a sister comes back in whispers that proves she was not in fact what she seemed not a twin from your dreams she’s a crook who was caught”. They were just best friends that felt like soul mates.I had a friend like that at 13 yo
rewatching for the algo!
Also as a non-swiftie/tumblian (Tumblrian), this was such a great deep dive! 💯💯💯
gaylors are insane cause TS is the most heterosexual woman i can think of
what i never got about gaylor is that if you truly believe she is queer the fact she doesn't about it and tells people not to ship her with her friends show she might not want to be out in the public eye? so like posting stuff about how you think her and x are dating kinda disrespectful if i was keeping it a secret i was queer from my fans i probably wouldn't like people making those posts about me? idk that's just always been my thought process if i believed she was queer (i really don't have an opinion) i probably wouldn't make public posts about ot
the standard response i see to this from gaylors on twitter is that "being gay is not a bad thing so outing someone/speculating on their sexuality is fine, and if you disagree you're homophobic" somehow 😐😭
This was such an interesting video. I'm still baffled at how delusional some of these people, like Kaylors and Larries, are.
propably because this video discusses the most extreme people in a group. most gaylors roll their eyes when someone thinks question..? is about harry styles then move on.
As a Taylor Swift fan (been listening to her since Fearless came out), I personally feel embarrassed and inadequate compared to my fellow Swifties for not even knowing about this Gaylor/Kaylor stuff until 2021. I don't really know how I missed it. Prior to 2022, I didn't even know who Karlie was. I was just listening to Taylor's music under a rock this whole time. In my defense, I don't really keep up with the personal lives of celebrities, even the ones I really like, like Taylor Swift. It's just not that interesting to me most of the time, and I'd rather focus on the art they're making.
Been following Taylor since like, Speak Now and I also didn't know about the theories or much about Karlie other than she was a person that exists until like 2018 when I was looking for interpretations of Reputation lyrics to see what other people thought and found a lot of speculation of the songs being about Karlie which made me fall into the rabbit hole to see what was going on. I think gaylors used to stay contained in their own spaces but have become louder/more visible in recent years for ???????? reasons?????
So you had a completely normal and healthy relationship with an artist and their music!!
That’s actually for the best imo
I mean that's the normal way to engage with celebrity culture. This fandom stuff feels very bizarre like surely there must be more going on in these fan's lives.
Same for the most part. I did stumble onto Kaylor theories once on UA-cam but idk I just forgot about it until recently.
Josh and Karlie were really out here spreading Covid rather than admit to being gay. They were doing too much 😤😤😤 LMFAOOO but in all seriousness, thank you for the deep dive!!
If I was wrong that many times in a row I do not think I would ever speak again
Ashley you are honestly my favourite creator at the moment, I really love how much detail and time goes into your videos !! This one was a wild ride, thank u for the insight into this niche fandom xxx
I knew people liked to speculate that TSwift might be queer...I didn't expect antisemitic Trump conspiracy theories...swifties are a different breed man
Sorry that the original was age restricted!
What is it with the tumblr environment that has a bunch of people concocting relationship conspiracies between real people (DnP, Lauren/Camilla, Larry, Kaylor)? Personally don’t really care about the actual identities of these people beyond what they’ve actually revealed publically. With that being said, it’s extremely shitty to try to “figure out” a person’s identity. Very concerning that a ot of these conspiracies would also include a ton of biphobia.
This video is incredible! I’m surprised this video hasn’t already blown up!
the karlie kloss pregnancy fake baby theory chapter really took me for a spin lmao like how do u come up with that storyline
They really have mental issues to come up with the fake baby tin hat theory.
they took some notes from larries 😅
no that one is insane
Omg, the platonic relationship that you have a break up and eventually go "…huh" when you realize it might have been more. Damn, never had it explained but now I definitely know I’ve had that experience lol😂
Some people read the seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo and fucking ran with it