Tumblr's Greatest Conspiracy: The Story of TJLC
Вставка
- Опубліковано 30 жов 2020
- A tale of hopes, dreams, fandom drama, film analysis, and whether or not Sherlock Holmes is a top. Visit curiositystream.com/sarahz and get thousands of exciting documentaries and access to my streaming service Nebula!
Check out my cowriter Emily: / @ladyemilypresents
Blossom VO by Angelina Meehan: / whyangelinawhy
Support me:
Merch (buy a TEA IS GAY shirt and a respect women juice mug here!!!): standard.tv/sarahz
Patreon: / sarahz
Twitter: / marysuewriter
Music by Zoë Blade and used with permission (except the VO music, that's In The Hall of the Mountain King!). - Розваги
update: blossom is back on tumblr now and sarcastically said that i basically called her a war criminal. war never changes
Just ignore her.
You hate to see it 🤣
We live in the funniest, and dumbest, timeliem
@@wdalbright i'm not mad lol, it's just wild
Imagine telling someone “Hey, you being a die-hard tjlc fan and harassing people who disagree is not okay” and your immediate response being “she basically called me a war criminal”
SECRET GOOD FOURTH SHERLOCK EPISODE
I expected this comment, but not from the man himself
But can we agree the line "Get out, I am in my mind palace." is a good line
Also Hi Hpbomberguy-
Have a good evening buddy!
eat my beans
HE HAS BEEN S U M M O N E D
maybe the real queerbating was the friends we made along the way
nah at least some of the gays who were involved in this shitshow actually ended up in a relationship
It was never queerbaiting. Y'all were just desperate and that's not the producer's or writer's fault.
@@IceQueen975 well, i mean, the entire first episode was definitely something. and then the little nuggets scattered in every other episode. it wasn't cool for them to do that but how rabid the fans became was not cool either.
@@IceQueen975 Man, I watched the show with no interrest in shipping, never shipping any sherlock characters, not a part of the community, never read any fanfiction and never interracted with the community and even I was taking the piss out of how much the writers were clearly queerbaiting other people. The word gay is used more often than the word mystery.
I AM YELLING AHHAHA
It’s been so many years and I still can’t get over the fact that Moffet wrote an ending that was so bad the fandom was convinced it was bad on purpose
Meanwhile, in another fandom, it's been joked that the Attack on Titan author followed up a controversial manga ending that "divided the fanbase" with an epilogue so terrible that *everyone* hated it.
@@vitoc8454Ah did they expand on the Code Geass rip ending beyond the Mikasa ending or am I missing something?
@@vitoc8454I actually quite liked the epiloque ending 😅
@@vitoc8454 I liked the epilogue because it proved that Eren was completely correct about how zero-sum the conflict was, and for that reason most people who liked the manga ending seem to deliberately ignore it since it casts the alliance's actions in a very different light.
@@vitoc8454I liked the epilogue.
TJLR: The overall reading comprehension on this site is piss poor
Blossom: How dare you say we piss on the poor
what the hell is does tjlr mean
"I mean you're right, but how dare you say it?"
I can't believe you'd accuse the Powerpuff girls of being Sherlock fans
Blossom needs a Snickers.
@@Eutrofication tbf I've seen it multiple times and I still read it just now thinking they meant TLDR for a bit
i stopped watching sherlock after i broke up with the girl who introduced it to me so the biggest impact it ever had on my life was that every time i plug in my phone and miss the charger hole, i think about how sherlock would call me an alcoholic
i'm pretty sure i only ever watched the first season but LORD the charger thing has been living in my brain rent free for like six fucking years now and i don't think i can escape it
RELATE
this comment
I’m so glad others also cant forget this oh my god
OH GOD YES
imagine resurrecting sir conan arthur doyle and explaining this to him.
He didn’t like Sherlock fans when he was alive can’t imagine what he would think of all this
@@jupiterisaak1004 really?
@@jupiterisaak1004 ooh I heard about he revived Sherlock because of the fans but I didn't think there was any malice!
@@haileygiabiconi8830 I think it was maybe more resentment than true malice. That Sherlock was bigger than him than him as a writer. I think people seem to assume fanatical fandoms only happened due to internet. When in reality “crazy” fandoms have always existed. They also tend to put a strain on their creators see game of thrones or Star Wars as further examples.I think eventually George Lucas said something like “Star Wars was my destiny” but it took him years to get that point of acceptance.
the poor guy would crawl back into his own grave and ask to be reburied lmao
Pro-tip for anybody in fandoms. If someone calls or considers themselves a "fandom mom", fucking RUN.
LITERALLY
Why is it so bad?
@birds i can see how the bad version of that can go....
“Fandom mom” is a title that cannot be self-conferred.
Fandom grandmas on the other hand? Sweeter then honey
The fact they not only never solved the reichenbach mystery conclusively, but went *out of their way* to mock people who tried and confirm that they were never going to provide answers, tells me that Moffatt never actually had an answer and just threw a bunch of details at a wall to get more audience engagement during the hiatus.
Either that, or someone actually figured it out correctly and Mofftiss were so angry they refused to admit it.
@@merri-toddwebster2473 No, it was definitely the other thing. Those guys are quintessential mediocre white men
@@merri-toddwebster2473 as someone who has never watched a single episode of Sherlock and doesn't give a shit about doing so, I'm blaming the boomerang.
@@daemonspudguy that's valid
not just that, they encoraged people to obcess over this and then mocked them for doing the exact thing they'd been leading them to do for over a year
"Heterosexuality and Ice Powers"
A new YA novel coming to a bookstore near you
Every fantasy book I read as a 13 year old except the ice powers is replaced by any other power ever
But didn't Addisson Cain invent heterosexuality in books? She'll sue for plagiarism in short order.
That would be A Song of Heterosexuality and Ice Powers
I'd read it
There are already four of those at minnimun, I garantee you thay
The writing was so bad that my man really said “there isn’t a fourth episode” and people still didn’t believe him 😂💀
I knowww lol like really imagine being him
man those were some fucking crazy times back then :D
Imagine you were dismissed from your job for bogus reasons, suspiciously soon after your employer found out you were part of a protected category under civil rights law. You get your big day in court, where you’re going to stick it to the bastards that took away your livelihood. All is going well, you’re even feeling confident when you take lunch. And, halfway through your soup, you look over.... and your civil rights lawyer is cyber bullying pre-teens on the internet because they don’t agree with her interpretation of how modern-day incarnations of Arthur Conan Doyle’s characters have sex.
Just think about that.
The writing was so bad that I wished there was a fourth episode
At least shows like Lost, Heroes, SuperNatural and others had the writter's strike to blame for shitty writting and missing episodes
Imagine thinking the BBC would skip playing the inauguration of a US president by playing a secret gayer episode of a tv show.
Which is more important: The head of state for the most powerful government on Earth, or fandom conspiracies?
(Please consider the perspective of a teenager who has spent _way_ too much time reading arguments about fandom conspiracies.)
They wouldn't but they definitely should. I actually want to watch the gays, I'm tired of politicians.
The level of self-centered delusion that can only be created by obsessing over something that's never going to happen lol
It's broadly in the same camp as Dr Who weirdos who hoped the 2012 Olympics would have David Tennant in full The Doctor regalia be the one to light the torch or whatever.
Fandoms are wacky and adorable
In the case of that particular US president, it was almost a distinction without a difference. What else was the Drumpf presidency, if not a massively deluded cult of personality?
Imagine if the theory was real. *Imagine* heading to *Picadilly Circus* to watch the presidential inauguration of Donald J Trump and it's The Secret Good Fourth Sherlock Episode. I think that would have instantly killed every human on earth
Imagine if they accidentally aired the Sherlock Finale, again, instead of Apple Tree Yard episode 1.
There are just so many ways the BBC could've fucked with Sherlock fans for no reason other than shits and giggles. Of course, none of the bureaucrats in charge of the BBC have ever had a shit or a giggle.
If I worked at the BBC I'd broadcast the finale 4 times on the 4th of April and then say "sorry but you missed it" as the only explanation. At this point if they fall for it it's their fault
To be fair, it would’ve been the funniest shit if Mofftiss and the BBC had faked the entire 2016 presidential election for the Secret Good Fourth Episode.
I guess johnlock is the 14 year old girl equivalent of q anon 💀 random dates and events that never happen. And involving Trump? Wtf lmao
@@IncredibleMD haha probably true
The one clue that fans missed is that Steven Moffat hates everyone who watches his shows.
true. the pond era is my era of doctor who, but other than that, i try to avoid everything he touches.
@Najawin how would you defend him mocking fans of his work then? And I'm not just talking about johnlock fans, just his penchant for humiliating the people who enjoy his work?
Fans should have pretended to hate JonLock and he'd make it canon out of spite
Blech
@Najawin he doesn't actually have to be great, he can just have someone hint at his unimaginable greatness that can't be paralleled so he never has to actually demonstrate it himself.
That poor set designer, just trying to do his job and express a love of elephants.
He just wanted to make some nice sets with pretty apple tree wallpaper 😂
@Tangential_Tangine Nangi would have issue with that statement, if she cared enough.
He knew what he was doing....
@@cortneyperfume_madness480 I know that this is a joke but, if people were so invested in my minor role in production, I would knowingly do shit to mess with them.
Then he's an idiot. That's not how set design works. Everything in the set is supposed to reveal some meaning or reflect the characters and their inner lives. So saying I just like elephants is either a complete lie or this guy doesn't understand set design.
"Blossom is a lawyer. She's not stupid."
As a former attorney law librarian allow me to say - *BOLD* assertion. Truly bold.
Most lawyers aren't stupid. Some lawyers raise questions as to how they passed the LSAT let alone the Bar.
In my experience, people using their profession or studies as proof of their intelligence (especially when they throw it into completely unrelated conversations) is a big red flag to take everything they say with a heap or two of salt. I don't know why people do it so often, other than to impress people with the letters they have after their name - I've met doctors that I wouldn't trust to calculate a tip
@Harlequin Doe I wholly agree. I think the more morally questionable side of scientific curiosity is a different thing entirely however. I can imagine there are areas with important research to be done; where perception of that research can either prevent or discredit it, once enough people complain. Sadly some research that shouldn't have been done (don't need to give examples) has had a massive benefit on humanity as a whole.
Other than that, its ridiculous when people think their education makes them knowledgable in a "less complicated" field. Especially when they disregards experts in that field. I don't care what someone knows about physics, doesn't mean they're an authority in political discussion for anything unrelated to their field. Some kind of generalised Dunning-Kruger effect I guess
My dad got disbarred for forging signatures on legal documents. The fact that he ever became a lawyer in the first place is astounding
Just adding medical doctors to the list of "dont assume theyre not stupid" pile - quite a few have practically attempted to murder people through being bullheaded, outright stubborn, or just plain stupid.
@@Xeronoia my first Stepcousin once removed’s pregnancy doctor (not sure the word) might as well have been named Fuckup McDumbass. His poor judgement is the reason why my stepcousin (her son) is in a wheelchair and will never have a job/family and will live at home-because his umbilical cord got caught around his neck. Fortunately my First Stepcousin once removed and her husband were (are) lawyers and were able to sue and get a shit ton of money
Listen, the elephant conspiracy with the answer being that the designer just really liked elephants is absolutely hilarious.
Occam's razor
Reminds me of when Hal Prince asked Andrew Lloyd Webber about what the deeper meaning behind the Broadway show Cats was and Andrew replied: “Hal...It’s about cats...”
What the elephant were supposed to mean in the TJLC, Anyway ? That Sherlock and Watson really loved peanuts ?
@@vfvfq1279 no, it supposedly meant that Sherlock and John being attracted to each other was an obvious elephant in the room
@birds man it was a joke
Imagine writing a finale so bad that fans refuse to believe that it's actually the end lol
Danny Phantom enters the chat...
@Chrissy K I mean, that's a counter example. I've never heard of anyone trying to pretend the GoT finale wasn't the real one and that a secret good finale would come out anytime! It was however a finale so bad it retroactively made the last 2-3 seasons bad and unwatchable for a lot of people.
*Voltron LD has entered the chat*
I couldn't believe it the day it came out and I still struggle to believe it now. HOW CAN IT ACTUALLY BE THAT BAD?!? HOW???
@@jaimeerindy4573 It's SO bad. It's just kind of an... "THAT is what they're going with?" Ending.
I choose to believe it was all a dream, because oh my god it was bad.
when she said people shipped johnlock before the show adaptation I legit started imagining two teenage girls from the 1800's whispering excitedly about a forbidden love between Sherlock and John and how they'd have to sneak around and all the adventures and mishaps that would ensue.
That would make for a work of fiction that BBC Sherlock could only dream of beign as complelling... in the right hands of course
"Edith, m-maybe, Sherlock and John are.. homosexuals??"
"Scandalous Theodosia"
Then they fall in love abababab
@@charliejones3272 this is actually brilliant I love you
And then later it turns out they're lesbians. I would write that. More likely I'd just read it though.
Could you imagine explaining all of this to sir Arthur Conan Doyle and him knowing this is what his legacy has come to
Given his own fans basically *forced* him to keep writing Holmes adventures & he hated his own character with the burning passion of a thousand suns… I think the only part that would surprise him is that anyone would talk about homosexual relationships so openly.
there were literally rallies in the streets after he killed off sherlock 😭😭
If there’s an afterlife I’ll be sure to tell him
He'd probably be pissed that Sherlock Holmes is still popular
No. Please no. Leave the poor man alone. I beg you.
The amount of active racism and fetishisation of gay/queer men is such a staple of that era of tumblr. I remember the amount of uncomfortable questions and comments about being 'so cute' for being LGBT. It also really turned me off of the most prominent fandoms at the time.
It was fucking annoying. Goddamn fujoshis.
don't forget the misogyny among those, the amount of female characters being hated on becasue they were in the way of gay ships was scary!
fujoshits are wild my man
Bro this legit still gives me creeps. Being a child at the time who didn’t understand the attraction of queer ships, the whole superwholock situation gave me chronic paranoia against anyone who exclusively ships gay characters.
The icky part of it for me was moreso how they tried to frame it as somehow being social justice to engage in slash fandoms. And that the primarily straight cis people participating were somehow helping the cause of gay representation.
To be clear, I have no issue with slash fics. But like, cmon. Just admit that it’s motivated by wanting cute boy to kiss. There’s nothing wrong with liking cute boy kiss. But recognizing when you are indulging in a kink is a pretty important part of engaging with some kinks responsibly and respectfully. Don’t conflate queer identity and co-opt any sort of social power from the common ground of liking cute boy kiss
Oh god
HAHAHAHA
Ahhhh I remember watching your video on this show when I was in high school! I remember you said something like “a gay writer probably won’t do something as harmful to the community as queerbaiting”
Love your videos dude!
hey thanks for watching!!! sorry about the lsit DMCA stuff
Omg I'm wheezing
Plot twist: this is actually the secret good fourth Sherlock episode.
The runtime checks out
Note: I hadn’t seen hbomberguy’s comment when I made this one, so I didn’t steal from it. Not on purpose anyway.
The real secret good fourth Sherlock episode was the friends we made along the way.
clowns, magpies and fish
@@theenglishman Based on the times, this one was posted first. You're in the clear.
The anti-Moftiss is Jonny Sims, who said in Magnus Archives Q&As that he kept an eye on a specific subset of fans who were really into theorizing and analysis. If they were picking up the breadcrumbs he was dropping, he knew he was doing his job right. If they weren't at all, then he knew the foreshadowing he was doing wasn't effective and he needed to be more deliberate so the show's big reveals wouldn't just come out of nowhere. (Also the fact that, by the end, most fans had figured out more-or-less where the show was going, because it was so well telegraphed and foreshadowed up until that point. There were still some surprises, but nothing felt out of place or like a cop-out because Jonny actually wanted us to engage with the mystery.)
And also Alex Hirsch (created Gravity Falls and really did make a secret fake leak to lead the fans off a trail for a while).
yes!! tma is the most involved I've ever been in a fandom, and I really remember that there were SO MANY theories all with very reasonable connections to characters' actions and dialogue lines. I didn't know what exactly would happen in the finale but I had a general idea and it felt cool to figure out what actually happened!
Not to mention a well set up, canonical, and affectionate romantic relationship between the canon biromantic asexual protagonist and another man, as well as a WLW relationship between two supporting characters, and several gay, trans, and nonbinary characters who pop up over the course of the show. It's not tacked on, it's not an afterthought or a joke or subtext, it's just... Queer people existing
Say what you will about the ending of TMA, it was very much well planned and well thought out
MAGNUS ARCHIVES FAM
Blossom is the epitome of “Look at my lawyer dog I’m going to jail.”
Think you mean dawg, not dog lol
@@ettaetta439Lawyer Dog: superhero.
ah yes, the two genders: heterosexuality and ice powers.
I don't know why I found this so funny but it really cracked me up haha Cheers!
I have no idea what this about, but I can’t wait to find out...
@@ChandaurRoshini elsa.
@saint wifi your pfp is godly
@@lunalya_3 because i'm God, jackob.
Meanwhile Alex Hirsch orchestrated a worldwide treasure hunt for the end of Gravity Falls.
Right? Lol
And there were actual, tiny mysteries every episode for kids to solve.
@@martaszabo465 And when people guessed correctly that the author was Stan's twin brother, they referenced the twist in a subsequent episode, but not in a "the fans are fucking stupid for trying to solve the mystery I encouraged them to solve". Alex Hirsch is great.
I definitely appreciated rewatching it, and that Hirsch didn't change plot points just to stay a step ahead of people who had correctly guessed some of his story points
Anyone here remember when there was an allegedly leaked frame of Old Man McGucket writing the journals, exposing the fandom to a bunch of evidence that he could be the author (Most notably that his cast could have been hiding the injury of a missing sixth finger), and then this was seemingly confirmed at the start of an episode only to then reveal that he was only working for the author? And then it turned at that Alex Hirsh himself had been responsible for the alleged leak as an attempt to throw the fans off the scent of the actual reveal!
What a legend.
Turns out, the "one key detail" fans were missing about the death faking mystery, was that the writers didn't give a shit
I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got
@@afellowpotato potato
I stopped watching Sherlock awhile ago, and was curious to hear about the ending and the backlash it got. But when I watched this video I realized that I had actually seen the entire series, but didn’t realize it. When I saw the episode where Sherlock’s secret sister put everyone in a Saw scenario - it left me thinking, “Well, it sort of feels like this show jumped the shark. But maybe the next season will be better.” It honestly never occurred to me that it was supposed to be the SERIES FINALE. It didn’t even feel like a finale. This is so bizarre.
I assumed it was just on hiatus again for longer than I care to admit.
@@skylarjohnson7779 Some of the other seasons ended in a way which felt like the writers weren’t sure whether the show was going to be renewed, so they had “climactic” endings even though a lot of stuff felt unresolved. I assumed that was the case here. Weird.
@@skylarjohnson7779 I heard it is coming back soon ish, though that could be a rumor.
@@helloill672 I strongly doubt that. I assume the creators and actors were aware of the negative reviews from media, casual viewers and fans. In addition, there are rumors that Benedict and Martin don’t get along all that well and Martin really didn’t like the extreme attention he got through the show and the shipping of John and Sherlock.
Honestly, same for me. Like, other seasons had season finales that felt more like "finales" than the actual Finale. So I just thought "Oh, so this is what the next season is going to explore. Well, they have a long way to go before this feels natural, and this show is feeling weirder every season, so I might just wait for a while before checking it out."
But damned, if I was expecting the series finale I guess I might have been more disappointed
imagine thinking Lucy Liu was the "worst thing about Elementary"... dude, she was straight up the whole reason I watched the show
🍂🌟🌷Racism🌷🌟🍂
Racism and misogyny are each a hell of a drug, combine 'em and its not good:)
her wardrobe ALONE was reason to watch the show
As a fashion lesbian.... she and her wardrobe were the reasons for me to watch Elementary
@@shiloha5646 you're so right. i loved how in elementary, they showed sherlock holmes and joan watson (lucy liu) actually stay up late at night reading files and investigating crime scenes because that's exactly how crime solving should be. because of that, i could actually also try to logically solve the cases and managed to do so for a few episodes. it felt satisfying watching the show because i felt like i was helping out (and ofc i love watching lucy liu in a smart suit being a smart badass investigator haha)
Imagine being hate crimed but you don't win your lawsuit because you think Sherlock is a top.
Lmao, that was the most shocking detail in this whole video, still reeling 😂
I think that would be fair
@@CelinaBruennert are you joking?
ua-cam.com/video/LkoGBOs5ecM/v-deo.html Fake-Feminism, Fake-Intellegence and Fake-Characterization. Here's a video that lists it all.
This show was extremly bad and has nothing smart about it.
It depowers woman (and men too) as Irene Adler is
an infinitely inferior version of her book-self.
Among other problems.
@@moltendiamonds1567 yes yes don't worry
Still thinking about the one time I brought up queerbaiting in a conversation with my sister, only to realize that she had absolutely no idea what it was, and so I said "you watched Sherlock right?" and immediately she said "Oh I get it" and the conversation ended
To be clear, I was fully intending on using Sherlock as a case study, partially because of how infamous it is, and partially because she's actually watched the show and would know what I'm talking about. I'm still cackling at the fact that the mere mention of the show's name was enough for her to wrap her head around the concept in the space of a couple seconds
literally made my day
oh my god 😭😭😭 that's hilarious
1:12:00 The "You brutes!" is not random. That's how one woman notoriously opened her letter to Arthur Conan Doyle when he killed Sherlock. Nice touch.
I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got
@@afellowpotato*many
One way or another Cassandra Clare always ends up being involved...
Clare is on her way to becoming a fandom Odin.
@@ahniandfriends123 But Odin was cool
@@beeaggro2593 And talented.
I have a theory that all fandom drama is at most only three steps of seperation away from Cassie Clare, somehow.
@@rambletash Probably.
why is it always people who want everyone to call them "the mom friend" or want to be seen as "the fandom mom" who end up being Like That
people like blossom are the reason so many teens and young adults don't trust older fans
I just think it's weird so many young fans seem to want a "fandom mom". For me, fandom was where I expressed myself without my mom hovering over me and I was taken seriously by adults who weren't sure of my age because I didn't advertise it. I also think it's weird how young fans these days *do* actually openly talk about their age, and are then shocked when someone they've been interacting with is a predator. The early days of the internet was _all about_ lying about your age. I claimed to be 14 starting when I was 12, then I claimed to be 16 when I was 14, and I always claimed to be 18 whenever porny fanfiction websites said "you must be 18, click this pop-up that says you're 18 to proceed."
God, sometimes I miss the early internet, those were the days.
@@erraticonteuse I think there's this idea of wanting mentorship and life advice from someone who "gets it"--not really a mom, but more of a protective older sister. Given that a lot of young fans have difficult relationships with their families I think it's understandable that some of them would seek that out, but then there's the question of power dynamics and influence and "fandom moms" not actually being mature or self-aware enough to recognize the consequences of their actions...idk, I was active in bandom for a couple years and while the older fans I interacted with were respected, there was definitely a lot of mistrust around them
@@peonylarkspur645 I do get that, but where really falls apart for me is when they call _themselves_ "fandom mom". It's one thing for their younger fans/friends to say, "haha you're my fandom mom" and for them to just smile and move on, but it's another thing entirely to self-appoint themselves as "fandom mom". Even aside from the weird power dynamics, it's just cringy. I mean, it's basically the same thing as Amy Poehler's "I'm not a regular mom, I'm a cool mom" in Mean Girls.
I'm not too familiar with fandom moms myself thankfully, but from what I understand it's usually a very specific type of person (typically a woman, but you never know) above the usual age range of the fandom. People like fujoshis who refer to men in relationships as their "sinful gay babies". They portray themselves as a "Fandom Mom" because it gives them an image of credibility and presents an easy in with vulnerable teenagers who might not have the best home life of their own. They groom minors into thinking that all their toxic behaviors (usually along the lines of pedophilia, incest, etc.) are Completely Fine Actually, and turn their "children" into little content factories as well as their own personal defense squad.
The toplock thing is so weird to me because it just seems...really strange to tie that much of someone's personality to how they prefer to bang. I mean, I'm not a gay man and I don't know many gay men (at least not well enough to discuss something like this) so maybe there is something to it but...it also reads as something akin to compulsive hetereosexuality to me. Basically deciding which one is "the man" based on who's penetrating who.
Yeah it’s a pretty common thing to see in gay ships. _Especially_ back in the 2000s.
At least it’s not as prevalent now? -kind of maybe not really-
I’m transmasc and attracted to men - can confirm, you’re absolutely right, it’s an extremely fucked up but unfortunately prevalent way of thinking. Especially in 2000s fandom spaces, as the other commenter on this thread mentioned. And it definitely hasn’t left me with an inferiority complex for not “doing sex right”… Ha, ha… Not at all…
yeah... fandom has had a *lot* of issues with making men they perceive as more manly tops and more feminine bottoms and sending death threats to anyone who disagrees
@@meddlesome- From what I can tell, it's been mostly a bunch of teenage girls and straight 30+ year old white women throwing a fuss over it. They LOVE fetishizing gay men.
I remember being in a fandom in 2013 and someone on Tumblr went into huge rants over ship names, saying that specific names referenced whether the characters were supposed to top or bottom based on the order they were in (like "Spirk" dosen't necessarily mean that Spock is topping Kirk, it's just the ship name). The Tumblr posts went something like, "I hate seeing B/A tagged as A/B! If B is topping, DO NOT tag it A/B! I HATE B/A!"
It was interesting to read.
Avid Elementary fan here. How bizarre their hatred for Liu given that her Watson never has any romantic sub-plots with Sherlock. Their really just friends and coworkers who respect each other and can relate to each other on a different level.
The show drops a few semi-romantic moments between the two, but never an actual relationship
@@zinkheroofyoutube8004 I see it as Sherlock has never been closer to anyone (on-screen) than Joan so any words of affection or hugs he initiated would be romantic to any other pairing of a straight woman and man, friends or more. Joan constantly tells people they're not sleeping together in season one...almost as frequently as John says he's not gay lol. They always gave platonic life partners TO ME
Imagine having to explain to John Locke (the philosopher) that this is what I think of when I hear his name
That’s how you transform him into a Hobbesian philosopher.
This is an underrated comment
@@outofhere2534 I dispise hobbes and even I am close to switching sides
@@dag1407 did Hobbes pounce on you when you came home once and resented it?
O
November 6th, 2020: After Destiel is made canon, rumors begin spreading about a fifth season of Sherlock. My palms are sweating. My hands shake as I type. I can't do this. Not again. Superwholock II is coming.
Oh my god so much going on
And Hetalia is back. Holy shit, it’s 2012 2.0.
we got homestuck epilogues earlier this year, too
I saw a Rise of the Brave Tangled Dragons post getting traction in twitter and honestly had to take a nap.
Not to mention that David Tennant is returning to Doctor Who in the form of a companion.....2012 Tumblr really IS coming back.....
I am creeped out by adults fighting with literal children over shipping characters in a fandom. How tf did Blossom get a law degree with such a childish and unprofessional personality?
If it makes you feel better, she’s probably usually unemployed and not actually working on cases; and/or is just a secretary or something at a law firm. Actual practicing attorneys don’t have that much free time to yell about fandom discourse online.
3 words better call saul
Have you met a lawyer? That was the most believable thing about it for me
Diploma mill, probably
As someone who works at a law firm, I just realized that a 30 year old lawyer is probably just an associate. Not a partner. A baby attorney fresh out of law school who stays late to do the senior lawyers’ bidding on cases. Her behavior suddenly makes a lot more sense. (I’ve watched this video numerous times, and as I near 30 myself, I can totally see someone my age getting up to the shit that Blossom did.)
Yeah, there’s a special kind of immaturity you only get by spending your twenties going straight from college to grad school without any break for life experience in between.
She sounds like she thought Ally McBeal was a documentary series.
i can't believe sarah manifested the homophobic destiel confession
edit: she also manifested the finale
Ugh her power
She's grown too powerful
sarah z? more like clairvoyant z
*laughs in spanish*
_google_
Apparently this is a Supernatural thing? If only someone recently released a video about the Supernatural finale that could explain what was going on.
7 years and Im still so confused why the creators of a mystery show got so angry about their fans trying to solve a mystery
Because they wanted to build a fanbase of men in their 20s but ended up with one of mostly teenage girls, and our society absolutely despises everything teenage girls like.
@@riley8385 That makes so much sense
Honestly? It probably comes down to how rabid the fanbase was and how much it was pissing off every other fandom on the internet. Moffat saw his opening to continue a show where there was no conceivable explanation for the survival and he took it.
@@riley8385 My guess is that Moffat&co were trying to cater to the anti-hero trend that characterized “peak tv” at the time. But more of the depth shows that focus on a singular character and their importance.
Breaking Bad’s Walter White and The Soprano’s Tony Soprano come to mind. These have followings of young men who buy into the power fantasy of being a powerful, asshole-ish, anti-hero.
Moffat looked like he was trying to do this with Sherlock Holmes. He missed tho. Got the Tumblr fangirls instead. He’s been seemingly salty about it ever since.
My diagnosis would be that they didn’t start out that way. If you look at any of their interviews it becomes very clear that they see the show as a highly intelligent mystery/crime drama. The fans, meanwhile, very clearly see/saw the show as a soap opera. All of the GIFs/theories/fanfics/speculation/everything are about the characters and their relationships and feelings, not about the mysteries or plots. I think their contempt is largely from resentment that the fans were ‘watching it wrong’ and focusing on the ‘wrong things.’
my favorite part of this is that everyone involved in this was in full improv mode. when someone proposed one nutty theory nobody would ever say “no that’s nuts” they would always say “yes! and..”
TJLC was just a mad libs game gone horribly wrong.
As a fnaf fan I can confirm this
@@afellowpotato potato
All "Yes and ho!" and no "You idiot, that's fucking mental!".
@@ciphergacha9100potato
Creators: “not gonna happen”
Fandom: “THATS CODE FOR YES”
It's a reverse "AND THEN I DIDN'T"
I'm, like, 92% convinced this video causes Destiel
Sarah doesn’t know the power she wields
Yeah she jinxed it
How does it feel to be a prophet?
It's a butterfly effect, I don't quite know how to connect the dots but I just know it.
I'm a grown ass adult now and could not care less about Sherlock, but I'm still so salty that probably every episode has some reference to a character picking up on a romantic relationship between John and Sherlock, but then when fans called out queerbaiting the creators were like, 'there was never any hint that they might be together, grow up.' Like ahh sir you yourself wrote your own characters picking up on romantic subtext but when your audience does the same suddenly we're stupid? Okay so yeah I'm still mad
Yup, if it was ever possible to gaslight a whole fandom, Mofftiss did it.
Its like white supremacists saying something inflammatory and extremely racist, then calling their detractors "snowflakes" and shit
This was always one of my favorite things about the show. The characters in the universe reacted in a similar way to the events, as the people watching the show. It made it feel more real, that the characters acknowledged how wild and over the top planned out Sherlocks and Moriartys plans were. And that was also what made me believe Johnlock would be canon eventually. The characters noticed the sexual tension, so it clearly was deliberate. I wasn't even into the whole TJLC stuff and the in depth analysis, I just actually thought all the jokes were a way to set up John and Sherlock having feelings for each other but being oblivious/in denial and eventually confronting their feelings. It's a massive dick move to deliberately write it in and then pretend like the fans were over analyzing (which the creators encouraged them to be), not to mention all the queer bating.
SAME. i’ve been getting into sherlock again recently and i realized there are SO many people who make jokes about it or infer it. like i seriously thought i made up johnlock in my head and then i went back and watched and i was like damn it’s actually pushed in the show by the writers.
Yeah, I can't accept the idea that the showrunners aren't to blame. Yes, the conspiracy group got out of hand, but it only existed and got so extreme in the first place because the show and its creators encouraged it.
In regards to the, "Mark Gattis must secretly be straight otherwise he wouldn't have queerbaited the audience" idea. Ursula K LeGuin spoke in interviews about how despite creating the Earthsea books to be more inclusive and diverse than the fantasy being published at the time, and today, the early books had her female characters in either background or stereotypical roles and she didn't give it much thought until later in the series. It's not cause she was secretly misogynist, just that the women in the fantasy works that inspired her were written that way so she ended up replicating it in her own work without thinking.
I'd guess that it's a similar thing with Gattis. I mean, no homo jokes or baiting were pretty common in a lot of media both British and American, so he might have just included them or gave the go ahead to Moffat to include them without realizing what he was doing. Given how flimsy the storytelling of the show was from the get go, wouldn't surprise me.
The Earthsea books are so good though! I love them so much! And the second book has a female main character who's written so well. Tenar's struggle makes the second book my favorite out of the whole series (Of the first four anyway, I haven't gotten to the last two yet)
I'd guess Gattis doesn't really care and is perfectly fine with queerbaiting if it gets a viewerbase for his series. he's not a queer media pioneer, he's a rich man who happens to be gay.
@@zakhawker344 Is there anything wrong with that? Does he have to be a queer media pioneer?
@@luckystriker842 i dont think thats the argument, i think thats just the explanation. someone can be gay and participate in making media that queerbaits.
leguin actually reflected on her own work though, and made an effort to course correct down the line. gattis seems...less introspective, more combative.
As someone who:
- Never had a Tumblr account
- Wasn’t on the internet until I was around 16-17
- Has never engaged in fandom culture until very recently
- Still generally doesn’t engage in shipping content
I was still pretty convinced that BBC Sherlock was written to be queer coded.
I watched BBC Sherlock upwards of four times back in its peak. Never participated in the fandom once. I never knew any of this was happening. Even with that it mind, I just assumed that BBC was intentionally queer-coding Sherlock and John Watson and just couldn’t pull the trigger on making in canon. I assumed it would either happen eventually, or the series would ambiguously hint at it then end. It’s absolutely written in a way that leads the watcher to believe so, whether they’re in the fandom or not. Learning about all this nonsense now, it’s so boggling to me that the show runners:
A) Never had any intention of queer coding the show
B) Actively mocked and pushed back against fans for the shipping culture that sprung out of it
This channel’s content has been so fascinating to me. It’s like looking up and realized you just barely dodged a train hitting you, over and over again, for years.
10/10 👍
I wasn't there when this happened. I heard a out sherlock and people shipping johnlock but only recently watched the show and had no idea about the drama. And wasn't involved in fandom. And still I legit thought it was gay coded on purpose with the intent of giving it romantic subtext. I'm baffled that the creators now act like it was all in the fans' imagination.
“The Powerpuff Girls are manipulating us” is not a sentence I expected to hear tonight
Mojo Jojo was trying to save us.
HIM was right smh
Buttercup: Girlboss
Bubbles: Gaslight
Blossom: Gatekeep
And I thought the reboot was bad.
There were a lot of good sentences in this video.
fun fact, my mother, who is almost 60, was and is one of the more well-known Sherlock fanartists. She has done ship art of Johnlock, and at one point shipped them herself, though she was never part of TJLC, to my knowledge. She's also one of like 8 people who still go to Sherlock conventions, and meets up with a group of Sherlock fans every month (or, she did back when that was still a thing).
Oh hell yes
That's pretty cool. Can I find her art page or something? I'm always interested in finding new artists.
Aww that's so sweet
@@cyncynshop bluebellofbakerstreet on tumblr
@@sirjid Oh! I know her! Like, not personally, but I've seen her art!
Listening to the acephobia part of the video while drawing a pride themed illustration of Jonathan Sims, canonically ace protagonist of The Magnus Archives, gives of the same feeling as the janitor that keeps mopping the floor during a fight scene in an action movie.
This is the second TMA comment I’ve seen and how I wish I could just tell every young queer kid during the finale’s air that a horror podcast is going to do so much more than any big budget show for any amount of representation they could possibly dream of.
I’d have lost my fucking shit if I discovered it back in 2017.
Side note: I demand to see Jonny fanart.
Im literally a janiter listening to this video lol
@@biancamlf288same, it's the second tma comment I see here and it tells me that we're all healing our Sherlock related trauma with horror. But jokes aside TMA is so many levels higher than Sherlock, plot-wise and in the way they write characters (especially queer ones). Nature is healing
What is TMA? Is this a book?
@@7Mushrooms7 its a podcast! its a horror tragedy that starts off as an anthology but slowly spirals (this is a pun btw) into an overarching plot where you realize everything was connected all along and start screaming. it recently got a "sidequel" as the writer calls it, The Magnus Protocol, so its a really good time to get into those! highly recommend, it has taken over my life :D
A hypothetical romance between Elementary's Watson and Holmes being considered "less meaningful" because it would be hetero is peak 2010's tumblr
I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got
@@afellowpotato potato
Technically it would be
In reality Elementary's Watson and Holmes is a way more meaningful relationship because the creators stuck to their guns and presented a deep emotional yet platonic bond between their opposite sex leads throughout without a hint of romance teasing
@@ciphergacha9100potato
tjlc x tjlr enemies to lovers slow burn 100k omegaverse
cursed comment, A+ would read
not the omegaverse ToT
I hate that I understand this
which one would be the alpha and which one would go into heat
I just imagined someone who has spent 0 time on the fanfiction side of the internet reading this comment, and my guess is they'd think we've created a neo-language
Sarah three videos ago: "I swear this isn't a tumblr history channel"
Sarah now; for the past three videos:
my immortal ain't tumblr!! that's livejournal babeyyyyyyy
@@SarahZ tangentially related: I would love to see a deep dive in the history and popularity of "Twist and Shout"/Destiel in general. I know you did a video about queerbaiting, but I'm interested in more of the details about that ship and massive fanfiction specifically (it even has a Goodreads page) (and I have read all of it, yes)
@@SarahZ frankly tumblr history in itself is. Interesting especially for having to live through it and have it explain it.
I’m loving tumblr history rn
@@SarahZ nevertheless here for it
Steven Moffat is a living demonstration of: "Homophobia and lesbophobia are not the same thing"
I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got
@@afellowpotato potato
potato
I don’t really think he’s either.
Imagine spending months or years writing a book, it gets published, it gets picked up for a BBC adaptation, and then people are just complaining that it's not a secret good Sherlock episode.
"The Powerpuff Girls were not the first people to ship John and Sherlock together..." - an actual sentence that was just said aloud in 2020
Everyone needs to know that there were Sherlock Holmes fanfiction clubs in the 1800s. Some of the writers must've shipped them.
Coming here after destiel's homophobic confession scene is such a time
The whaaaaaat??
it wasn't homophobic, jeez
@@eleven-hopper i’d say getting sent to superhell specifically because ur a man confessing ur love to another man isn’t great
I'm not in the supernatural fandom and don't plan to be, so I felt kinda bad for laughing when I saw that scene on twitter. Ik some fans were grieving, but I couldn't get over the guys face as the other guy was confessing. He looked like he was ready to punch the gay away during that confession. And the other guy getting sent to super hell right after? Yeah I wheezed. I've never seen a gay love confession be so homophobic😂
@@ashleym6044 i know a lot of ppl are saying that but it's usually just for the reason you stated. you haven't seen the show. dean is one of the most like repressed characters. he hardly shows emotions cause he grew up with a horrible dad who was one of those ones that would be like "boys don't show emotion" and stupid shit like that. no one has ever told him something like that before in that moment. sure, his parents and brother have said i love you before but usually that's it and hardly ever. he doesn't know how to act. that confession just came out of nowhere and he's shocked, confused and scared and doesn't know what to do because his best friend of 12 years is literally telling him he's the most amazing person he ever met while dean hates himself like in every way. the acting in that scene is subtle and it's gets me everytime. if you just pay attention to his eyes, the way his head moves and the way you can see him holding back tears. he doesn't know what to say and do in that moment, and i think most people would do the same. if my best friend suddenly came out with something like that i would probably just be frozen bc no one has ever said something so meaningful and you know that this is a goodbye. the reason why dean didn't say much is because he didn't know what to say, and he's trying to show it instead even if it's subtle. the way he says "don't do this cas," i know a lot of ppl said it's like kind of homophobic but its' not at all. he's not the best with words and he's trying "not like this." because he knows he doesn't have time to say anything back and frankly he doesn't know what to say.
there's lots of tumblr posts with the gifs and it goes into full detail but i just wrote this as quickly as i could, so some of my wording sucks. sorry, that was really long but i've seen so many ppl say his reaction was like homophobic and it just annoys me cause they usually haven't seen the show or watched it in years. so i just had to vent
What I find most baffling about this whole affair is Blossom's angry reaction to the Roland Barthes/Death of the Author analysis of tjlc; its not trying to "kill the fun" of the ship, its just observing the nature of tjlc running opposed to Death of the Author theory, and despite being bloated with overwritten run-on sentences, the observations do technically make sense. Then Blossom tries to claim that her LAW degree is comparable to that poster's MEDIA degree, and thinks that because she's a lawyer, she can spot errors in a media essay? What? OP wasn't even decrying tjlc as much as voicing an academic interest in the phenomenon.
I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got
@@afellowpotato potato
god irene was such a good book character, smarter than sherlock. not one single adaptation gives her a proper character
Probably because of the "Smarter than Sherlock" thing.
Wishbone did
She also had a deeply meaningful and respectful but 100% platonic relationship with Sherlock and i wish people realised that was a thing that can happen
@@Gossamerstrands truly the superior adaptation
what about "the adventures of Sherlock Holmes" (1984) with Jeremy Brett? I think that Irene had really proper character in this.
Plot twist: this is a coded message funded by Mofftis that reveals the location of the secret episode making Johnlock canon. Watch for the light/white dot appearing above her right shoulder. Put together the words said corresponding with the dots, run through google translate three times, arrange according to memory palace logic, and the url will be revealed to you, true TJLC believers.
OMG TYSM I JUST WATCHED THE REAL FINALE OMG YOU WERE RIGHT, I KNEW MOFFIT WROTE THIS VIDEO!! GENIUS!!!
Sara Z is such a well written character it will be sad to see her retire after fulfilling her final duty XD
lmaooo
@@aazhie ikr
Pffft. XD
I think the most offensive part of this entire thing is that people think john watson could top. Mary pegged him daily
"But how do they have kids when his wife exclusively gives him the strap?" -An ancient tumblr post about Beto O'Rourke but tbh also about John Watson
@@eikawithac BETO- ASDHJKSJFSLKJ LOOOOOOOOOL LMFAO I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE BUT BETO DOES SEEM LIKE A BOTTOM X'D
Mary pegs them both dvfdddd
Sknmajfna this is my favourite comment
this SENT me
I wish I had had this video to explain everything to me when my daughter was 12 and watching BBC live streams night and day, hoping to be there when they suddenly dropped the real final gay episode of Sherlock. It was literally weeks before she eased off of that fixed belief, and I could not wrap my brain around what was happening. This helps retroactively at least.
I'm just replying so you can see how much likes you got
@@afellowpotatopotato
@@Ringothetankengine-qy1vl potato
I feel like Moffat’s “he’s the genius protagonist. Just accept it” is a lot easier to get behind in doctor who than sherlock. Like at least the doctor is a supernatural sci fi being rather than just… some guy
Sherlock is really just... some guy.. with coke addiction
gotta love how the children's show Gravity Falls was more cleverly written and had more subtle mysteries and codes to solve that actually tied into the series' biggest reveals than the big budget BBC show "for adults"
Because the people behind Gravity Falls actually cared about what they put out there unlike with BBC Sherlock. In fact, after the show ended, Alex Hirsch created a worldwide treasure hunt that was connected to the show via puzzles, codes and etc. If you want a whole video on it, check out Blameitonjorge. He made a video documenting the whole event back when it happened.
I *loved* being in the Gravity Falls fandom. I'm pretty sure half the audience were adults but I didn't notice if they were up to no good. The "Stan has a secret brother" theory was buck wild but the payoff was glorious. And the finale was great, imo
Some parts of the fandom is still kicking around but a lot have moved in with the Owl House.
i was just thinking about that- like the vibe from sherlock is like if Hirsch had planted just as many clues but had no idea who the author was actually supposed to be
Gravity Falls had an amazing fandom. I can't remember being in a less toxic fandom if I tried (maybe the warrior cats fandom)
@@Alex-jg2bc as someone who was fairly heavily involved in the warriors fandom (or at least, in the fanfiction/forum roleplay side of it) back in the early 2010s, the warriors fandom could get surprisingly toxic at times
But yeah, watching this really made me realize just how mean-spirited Sherlock got? Then meanwhile, Alex Hirsch actaully encouraged fan theorizing and actaully gave fans some kind of payoff for it. Weird how the kids show handled it better.
Edit: I feel like I should mention that the majority of the drama took place on the youtube/animation side of the warriors fandom and kind of trickled out to the rest of the fandom. My personal experience was actaully fairly positive.
“Your honor, my client believes that Sherlock Holmes is a bottom, which proves that he is innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt.”
This really sounds like something Saul Goodman would say lmao
But sir, your client is accused of running a bus into a group of elderly people
@@Summertimeislife i’m serving as the entire jury of this case and i rule him innocent
@@Summertimeislife they were TopLocks, your honour
@@stankyratman5685 Its true I was the gavel
"The Powerpuff Girls were manipulating us" is a very funny quote out of context.
so I went to a charity shop a few months ago and there were. TEN. framed pictures of Benedict Cumberbatch. TEN. all different pictures but from his time as Sherlock. I saw one and was like "oh that's the guy"
then I saw another
then another
when I saw the 4th one I think I went FERAL I physically had to leave the shop I needed to laugh so hard
rip that fangirl's shrine ❤️
anyway I'm physically unable to watch all this video in one sitting because I might explode it's bringing up emotions I buried a long time ago
also series 4 was shit even when I was like 14?
update: heard Anderson's name and ASCENDED i was propelled into the stratosphere
damn I repressed my memory of the series 4 finale harder than Sherlock repressed the memory of his sister and childhood friend
@@inthegrass11 jeezz😭
As someone working in fandom studies, seeing Johnlock as literally an intentionally cultivated thing through the BBC 'Fanagement' document is eerie. Basically, the action of the showrunners was not 'oopsie doopsie, we didn't know we were affecting our fans like this,' it's LITERALLY part of an internal BBC document about 'how to exploit fans' and includes information like 'make the show gifable.'
@@ealusaid the document also explains how using fanwork (like fan compositions of Dr Who music) can 'induce feelings of ownership!'
@@TalenLee for real?
@@bean8672 Yep. Its literally where the term 'fanagement' was coined, as a response to the 70s idea of 'fantagonism'
Fandom studies? Is it a branch of sociology? Anthropology? More history based?
@@gmc5618 it's connected to media studies (at least, that's how I'm connected to it)
it's fitting that the scariest topic you've covered was uploaded on halloween
Terrifying really. And so fitting. This gave me chills
Look at the bitterness
@@TheFFilipp huh?
I am not sure if it is her scariest topic so far. I only knew about the Onceler debacle for about two seconds and from the outside. Finding about the whole "oncest" have scarred me for life...
But legitimately though, I do really really wish there was more male/male gay representation in shows of any kind, especially mystery/adventure ones. If anyone knows like any examples at all of this (not just token gay dudes, I mean relationships) please please tell me. As a gay dude I feel unrepresented
I LOVE that you actually put tin foil on your head during the entire "secret 4th episode" segment
And that the tin foil slowly increased in size as the segment went on
YES that was so good
I'm reading comments while watching the video. I'm looking forward to this.
@@afellowpotato potato
I wonder if the acephobia issues with TJLC was why Tumblr went on to house the most acephobic community on the internet
Wdym? I haven't seen any acephobia ?
@@a.s.d.p214 you're lucky lmao, ace discourse is the cesspool of that hellsite
@@sweesbees shout out to all those “het aro/ace folks aren’t queer because they’re het” arguments and transphobia on tumblr at the time. Absolutely whack.
If my memory is right I’m pretty sure those people ran Thomas Sanders off the site cause he was openly supportive of ace people
@@lonelysheeplingit seems like things have eased off, and Thomas Sanders is still active on tumblr. But yeah, as an ace person in a relationship i had to be careful around the website because the ‘hot takes’ were so bad. Not saying acephobia is gone but back then it was worse.
The phrase "boykissing" makes me so uncomfortable
@Dee Ayy Why Night Productions You missed the entire point of the video. The video is literally about not putting people down because of their ships, especially when they just want to see some representation.
SAME
idk I think tumblr's greatest conspiracy was that Louis and Harry from One Direction were together in secret and RENTED a BABY to cover it up
wait what- i've seen some larry stylinson stuff but i've never heard this before?! WTF?
They what
@@erinertz8646 absolutely! www.theverge.com/2016/4/8/11393680/louis-tomlinson-fake-baby-why-one-direction-tumblr-conspiracy
Was that before or after Harry's affair with Obama?
@@LON009 ...should i ask?
"'I do hope the LGBT teens who were tricked into believing in TJLC realize who their real enemy is and eat Blossom'. Indeed."
Elementary also takes Sherlock’s addiction seriously it's not a side joke to only use when it could add tension and or humor
Joan is Sherlock’s sober companion yes they become friends and are very close its still platonic not romantic
People don't know what to do with intense platonic relationships when they don't end with romantically
Elementary also has POC who aren't used to be bullies and only seen in maybe 2 episodes Detective Bell has a fleshed-out character he's in the majority of the episodes and seasons
We have positive takes on the LBGTQ+ community
There isn't the running joke of Sherlock and John being a couple and John getting upset by being assumed as gay
My only issue with Elementary when I watched it was that it used the cop procedural format.
Don't get me wrong, it's a very effective format that lots of people enjoy, but like the Highschool Clique stories, I'm so burnt out by them that I can't stand watching them anymore.
@@Primalintent I understand that as far as issues to have with a show this is the least problematic
I still have a love for Sherlock but I love that Elementary takes Sherlock’s addictions seriously and it's not used as throwaway jokes
@@HealthyObbsession That definitely sounds lovely, honestly.
I dont get the hate over the "John getting upset over being assumed gay" thing. It is a super human moment. It isnt that hes upset that hes assumed as gay. It happened since the first episode. But that it has happened over and over and over again despite him initially being polite about it. When he finally snaps, its to someone that he has known for a long time and repeatedly told her that he and Sherlock were not gay. But it just kept being insisted upon him one too many time.
Is that Moffat and Co telling over enthusiastic shippers that their ship was never going to happen? Possibly. But it works in character for Watson as well.
@@ComicCrossing I understand assuming someone’s orientation is wrong
But when I bring up John being angry I meant in it comes off as him taking it as an insult
Like being gay is something bad/wrong
The continued use of him being indigent about being labeled as gay can come off as a homophobic ‘joke’
There are better ways to explain that one isn't gay without becoming angry like you've just been insulted
I think Moffat could have used it once and that should have been enough why does it matter that some fans ship Sherlock and John granted I get that some of those fans are very toxic
Moffet taking it so to heart that he had to repeatedly write John’s reaction the way they did feels childish at best and at worst homophobic
Which yes I understand Mark Gatiss is gay but that doesn't negate homophobic undertones in the reasons of how they wrote they show
My point is they didn't have to write the gay jokes in the first place
They started in series one they didn't have to put anyone assuming Sherlock and John were a couple at all but they opened that door
Moffat's got an obsession with semi-villainous imposing women who make special exceptions for the male lead, and who are like superficially "strong" despite being smothered in gender roles in all the dialogue and always getting outplayed by the male lead
Remember when River Song who was greatly implied to be this cool action hero woman (and was later characterized as such) was given all of the books ever written to live out her life in and chose to be a boring ass house wife?
I'm pretty sure he's actually had an interview where he says that he thinks all women deep down actually want to be moms. He's such a pig
@@Zorae42 i knew the moment i clicked 'view reply' that i was gonna see River's name lmao
she was such a beautifully badass character, Moffat's just a misogynist and doesn't know how to write women in stories without his shitty views on women. and people wonder why every fandom hates him.
It's always kinda awkward when you can figure out a creator's kink.
okay he definitely was an ass in all that you guys are talking about but what about bill? idk if y’all have seen season 10 but she seemed like a good lesbian character written by moffat
@@karen-sm4gw [SPOILERS]
he still ended up killing Bill off at the end of the one season she was on.
she was a great character imo, but he still contributed to the hundreds of other lazy writers out there who just kill off their LGBT+ characters when they don’t know what else to do with them.
The only worthy successor to “Sherlock is Terrible, and Here’s Why”
I watched that 2 hour video and I'm watching this 1,5 hour video and I've never watched BBC Sherlock but I live for the drama surrounding it
@@AdriJB06 yeah same
ua-cam.com/video/LkoGBOs5ecM/v-deo.html Fake-Feminism, Fake-Intellegence and Fake-Characterization. Here's a video that lists it all.
This show was extremly bad and has nothing smart about it.
It depowers woman (and men too) as Irene Adler is
an infinitely inferior version of her book-self.
Among other problems.
@@slevinchannel7589 I appreciate you spreading the video, but why under this comment? I’m talking about it so I’ve clearly already seen it, plus the video above even links “Sherlock Is Terrible” in one of the info tabs of the video
@@ChestersonJack To spread the link, just for that.
STOP. I’M FULLY SCREAMING. WHY DID IT TAKE ME GETTING HALFWAY THROUGH THIS VIDEO AND SEEING THAT FANART TO REALIZE THAT I KNOW BLOSSOM HOOOO MY GOD ANFKENFND and she was a mutual of mine too!! For years!! Hooooly shit lmaooo I can like vaguely remember that video at the con being posted and even then thinking it was weird but she was such a dominant and aggressive personality that arguing with her was terrifying and she’d turn all her friends against you. She ended up unfollowing me after I posted something and she was like “wow guess you’re not a feminist huh” but I legit had no idea what the post was and by that point I was getting kind of annoyed by her so I unfollowed her too and ignored her and didn’t try to rekindle the friendship. The last time I’d checked she’d followed me again but I never followed her back and I just went to her blog to confirm this and she literally posted a pic of a keychain of Blossom I’m HOWLING this is years of repressed memories flooding back and all these puzzle pieces falling into place shfkdkfkf
i was really confused at that part, what was the video that blossom posted? about the con ?
@@ha_desblossom didn't post it, someone said they have it and she encouraged it. It was a snippet of the convention (I think 45 min of a 90 min convention).
@@CatLady-9327 I'm still confused about what the video contained and why it was so awful that she filmed it...?
@@ha_des
Don't quote me on any of this. I might get stuff wrong, I don't have all the facts. There are conflicting narratives on how hostile things really got. But as I understood, there is footage out there where a cosplayer cries, so we know it happened.
One of the panelists cried because they felt attacked and they, and as I am led to believe several others recounted their sexual trauma, basically to "explain" using dark fanfiction/non con to cope.
They did this not knowing it would be filmed and/or posted online. I believe the panel was about something else entirely and it was derailed to talking about dark fanfiction/dubcon/noncon, and the ethics of writing that fiction for others (and potential survivors) to find.
Also, the filming bit actually refers to being filmed by the convention, not by other congoers. Sarah doesn't mention it in her video, but it does make perfect sense. If "consented to being filmed" meant everyone could film you, you could just go to people and shove cameras in their faces. So I don't think they even had permission to film anyone.
@@CatLady-9327 i hadnt seen the reply but thank you, i hadnt understood why it was a big deal but now i do
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
It's six years later, and I'm starting to see a lot of the same patterns emerging in yet another fandom; Stranger Things. There is a certain subset of fans that are absolutely convinced that Will and Mike are going to end up together, despite the show making it as clear as possible that this is not going to be the case. I've seen pages upon pages of analysis looking at everything from costumes to framing to the fucking wallpaper. I've seen even the slightest expressions of doubt met with a hostility normally reserved for racial slurs hurled at someone's mother. I've seen prominent fans reinforcing the walls of their echo chambers, and I just want to grab them and shake them. I've seen this show before! I know how it ends! You're just setting yourself up for heartbreak! But alas, my words fall upon deaf ears (or blind eyes, given that most of them are in text form). It's like there's a certain subset of fans who cannot help but talk themselves into a frenzy, and some of them just happen to be enough of a force of personality that they drag others into their vortex.
The main difference is that in this case, at least one character, Will, is canonically gay and has clear feelings for Mike. But like... Mike treats Will like shit, and not in a tsundere way, but in a "all I think about is my girlfriend and when you aren't in my immediate vicinity I kind of forget you exist" way. I feel like it could not be clearer that Will's storyline is one of moving past an unreciprocated crush, which is something that pretty much all the actual real life queer people I know have had to go through at some point. It's really sad, because I don't want to see all these young fans get their hearts broken again, but at the same time, I feel powerless to stop it.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
honestly I am one of the gays myself and I never saw the romantic subtext. I thought it was just that Will is an eternal child at heart and Mike is trying to hard to "grow up" so he abandons his friend for his girlfriend.
You explained this really well
honestly yeah when i first started seeing byler conspiracies after getting into stranger things recently i just couldn't shake the feeling about how there could be absolutely no way it would happen and i only remembered why now when i rewatched this and sarah's destiel video
i just have absolutely zero trust in showrunners to handle these kinds of topics now
fr i have a medium sized audience on stranger things tumblr (like 1.1k followers) and the floodgates of hell open up every time i question the ship and i have to constantly explain that i like the ship and analyse it but i don't have any faith that it's going to happen. after those posts, i mostly get positive reception and a ton of anons saying they're too scared to talk about it on their mains. it's a shame, i think it's absolutely fine to theorise on it but people don't even like the show, they're just scared byler won't be canon and it makes them feel miserable and also it's such a weird culture where everyone is so focused on teeny details but never look at the broader picture
@@odothedoll2738 i think it's really quite clear after season 4 that Will has some Gay Emotions™ for mike but i think it's insane to think that will and mike are endgame.
As a former Sherlock fan who gave up after the horrendous third season, I got all the validation I needed from following along Gravity Falls. It had all the same pieces Sherlock claimed to have with small inconsistencies that seemed to have deeper meaning, leaked fake screenshots created by Alex Hirsch himself and a real life treasure hunt across the globe. The only difference was that it actually delivered in every way it promised it would.
Sherlock never promised any of that, you were mad at the show for not delivering something no one in the production intended on doing.
@@joseaguilar3323 no but it sometimes seemed like that was what they were trying to do
@@joseaguilar3323 oh they openly teased and hinted at doing shit like this- that mysteries can be solved by the audience and then they made them feel dumb for doing what they said.
@@slamacat9866 "They openly teased and hinted at doing shit like this" Can you tell me how? Because as someone who enjoyed the first three seasons and was (and is) heavily involved in the Sherlock Holmes fandom (as in the books and other adaptations) I saw none of that. It always seemed like an expectation coming exclusively from Tumblr.
@@joseaguilar3323 sorry for the late reply. I'll start off easy- they had a background social media based arg going on (no not the season 5 rumour) which had offical accounts for sherlock and john and character who was meant to be stalking them basically, this story went no where despite having a lot of info put into iy. Then there are also a lot of interviews with moftiss and other crew members saying that people CAN solve these mysteries themselves (y'know before they made fun of them for doing just that) and they of course kept saying stuff like "there are no coincedences" in regards to legit plot holes. It should also be mentioned that most of the people who were making theories and such were teenagers who had respect for this show- they fully believed what was being said and felt they were doing what was expected and havkng fun with it
I know TLDW stands for Too Long Didn't Watch but everytime I see it my stupid little brain goes "Too Long Didn't Wread" rip
Don’t worry you’re not alone 😂
Honestly same
TLDW: The Lohn Dock Wonspiracy
Now I’m just thinking of those owo texts. Sowwy mistah pwesident I didn’t wead, it was two wong! OwO (why did I do this)
@@jamesbriggs4165 Two Long Didnt Wead UwU
And 10 years later we STILL have people claiming "if you don't watch this show / enjoy content for this ship / enjoy this ship exclusively the way I tell you to, then you're homophobic/misogynist/racist/etc", and about every fucking fandom under the sun. It's not even close to being actual critique on general fandom trends, it's still just fandom outrage crusades. I'm so tired.
I lost a "friend" over the fact I told her I didn't think the Johnlock Conspiracy was going to happen and she said I was unsupportive and homophobic and stopped talking to me. She did this to several people and to this day has not contacted us despite knowing now we're right lol.
TJLC people literally still think it's going to happen it's truly bonkers
Maybe she's just too embarrassed
@@Blorbo-without-shows You could very well be right! She hasn't unblocked me so who knows. It was weird being called homophobic as a queer person for not thinking a ship was going to be canon.
@@luiysiaThat's why they want a season 5,to see it happen.
It's like those QAnon obsessed people who lost their friends and family over Jewish lasers conspiracy theories but somehow sadder
Living Tumblr through Sarah's experience is something else.
How are you not only everywhere, BUT ALWAYS ONE OF THE FIRST
@@bolloggfisch1100 I am a youtube junkie :-)
She is the only person that had a VERY similar experience to me, that's literally the main reason I love her
You are the last person I would have expected to watch a video with a topic like this
@@dylanrodrigues More of a crossover between military history and Tumblr drama than you might think
When I hear the words "fandom mom" I immediately feel a full body shudder. I have more trust for fandom nsfw artists who instablock anyone below 18 trying to follow their blog than UwU fandom moms who try to drag kids into their cults of personality.
i understand completely! curating your account that best you can to make it so it’s for a space for designated people is a lot more responsible than trying to act like some fandom spokesperson.
As someone in their (early) 20's who still regularly is involved in some smaller tumblr fandoms, don't touch self-proclaimed "fandom moms" with a 40-foot pole.
Honestly, yeah.
Tbh if an nsfw acc instablocks any underaged people that tries to get on their page it kind of makes me respect them more
Yup.
Funnily enough, the BBC Sherlock fandom was the reason why I turned to Elementary when I wanted to consume Sherlock media and it seems like I have made the right choice lmao also Lucy Liu is one of the most beautiful and precious people on this earth and having her as Watson is just brilliant
As a young teenager who was just beginning to figure out asexuality, I had a fascination with Sherlock, and I was so pleased to see a character who remained relatively unsexualized throughout the show’s run. Obviously there were Irene and Molly but his character development arc didn’t involve figuring out how to love a woman. I didn’t ship Johnlock because I loved seeing Sherlock on his own; it made me feel a lot more valid, I guess. As a consequence of this, even though I LOVED the show, I barely interacted with the fandom at all because of how bloodthirsty the Johnlock fandom was. It was kind of sad honestly.
YES. I didn’t know the words aromantic or asexual as a teenager, but I had already read the original Holmes stories and recognized he had those specific traits, and saw myself in them. So when I watched Sherlock it was very easy to see him as asexual.
The fandom was UNBEARABLE. It’s a show about these guys having adventures, and all anyone wants to talk about is romance and sex?!? One of the main reasons I was watching the show is because it had adventures and mysteries didn’t have romance.
You made me realize why I was so into Sherlock Holmes (especially the books) as a young teen. I was into plenty of gay fandom stuff too but I always saw/liked seeing Sherlock as ace. I craved stories in which romance and sex weren't that relevant. Fandom spaces being unwelcoming or hostile towards aroace readings of stories was and still is an issue
OG Sherlock is about as close to canonically ace as you can get without outright stating it. People act like because he’s expressed a lack of attraction to women he MUST be gay as if a lack of attraction to one gender inherently means attraction to another. The man could just be ace lol
@@emilybarclay8831 while you're not wrong, Sherlock seen as gay is as old as the book, it was even back in the time the book was published, that's why it's more popular
@@LiNestHetalia Conan Doyle himself actually said Holmes was as likely to fall in love as a computer. He’s never actually written as gay in the novel, people just assume a lack of attraction to women equals an attraction to men. Holmes himself stated he has never loved. The closest thing he gets to gay is pretending to be gay to get out of marrying a woman. That’s not the same as actually being gay, and both the character and the creator have stated that Sherlock is what we would currently call aroace, he does not feel romantic or sexual desire, because people do not interest him
imagine a world where people don’t forget that bisexuality exists - being a man married to a woman doesn’t... necessarily make you heterosexual
But why would tumblr remember or even believe that bisexuality exists bc you’re either ✨gay✨ or completely straight
Ok, this "bisexuality" idea is even more ludicrous than all the theories about a secret fourth episode. /s
^THIS^
Yes thank you. I'm sick of people acting like bisexuality doesnt exist so that they can fetishize gay people.
oh this happened so much, both to bisexuality and to asexuality in that fandom.
People really ignored how bi people existed, and how gay ace people do as well.
Absolutely batshit fandom I'm so glad it's dead
Imagine Conan Doyle traveling to the present day and trying to comprehend any of this.
He would probably say something like "Can these kids today go outside and take pictures with fairies like they did back in the day?"
We have to get a seance together to let him know about this.
"This is EXACTLY why I tried to end this shit."
We wouldn't get this far, ACD would be apoplectic with rage just to find out that Sherlock Holmes is still remembered in 2020 but none of his other works are and wouldn't even hear the rest of the story.
@@guillermodebaskerville7117 pmg I thought this video i watched with girls taking pictures with faries was a fever dream. Where did I even watch that? When? I've never heard it refrenced until now. I forget how they did it it was like some type of photoshop? Or pasting smaller pictues? Thats crazy thanks for the trip
"hiatus brain" OMG THANK YOU. I've been trying to describe this concept for years and never had a succinct intuitive term I could use instead of just explaining it from scratch every time. People are getting hiatus brain about Stranger Things right now analyzing the promo posters and stuff like that. Goodness gracious I'm happy to have found this channel.
George Martin needs to hurry up and finish Winds of Winter cuz the ASOIAF theory blogs are bananas right now
@@InvaderGIR98I'm not in that fandom but my phone keeps sending me little news notifications like "GRR Martin hasn't finished the book", "GRR Martin is STILL NOT DONE" and I can't even believe the level of hiatus brain you guys must be under right now
@@zoeb3573 At this point I think we're all going through the stages of grief lol
i’m about to get very emotional on main but i have a lot of things to say about bbc sherlock’s treatment of irene adler
heteronormativity:
irene was lesbian + she falls in love with sherlock anyway → heteronormativity + lesbianism only existing for heterosexual men
she could have been a representation of a queer powerful woman to young lgbt+ kids, but they just ended up basically fetishising her lesbianism
women’s power relies entirely on their relationship with men:
irene’s power in the beginning while she is nude + irene’s powerlessness in the end while she is fully clothed → the woman’s power coming ONLY from her nudity, sexuality, and appeal to men + islamophobia
comparison with original:
this is especially problematic when the og irene adler was in a (happy) relationship with a man, and also not that sexualised. she wins not because sherlock has a soft spot for her but because she legitimately outsmarted him (because his deductions were based on gender stereotypes) she never falls in love with sherlock, and stays the victor as the story ends (without needing sherlock to rescue her)
upholding masculine rationality and feminine sentimentality
s2e1 basically concerns the “irrationalising” nature of sentimentality: the person who is moved to sentiment loses. the burden of this irrationalising sentimentality was on sherlock for most of the episode (leaking mycroft’s plan to irene), but towards the end it’s shifted onto irene (“sherlocked”) despite her supposed homosexuality and her ability to manipulate people with her emotional detachment)
we get absolutely NO EXPLANATION for why sherlock is suddenly able to overcome/resist his sentimental affection for irene, and again absolutely NO REASON why irene would fall in love with sherlock. sherlock is rational for no reason, and irene is sentimental for no reason - this reinforces masculine rationality and power (and upholds the stereotype that detective fiction is a “masculine” genre)
tl;dr:
bbc’s irene adler reads like a girlboss at first glance, but she represents a lot of sexist and heteronormative ideals of womanhood and sexuality. it breaks my heart how much she could have been better written - i honestly think the 19th century version was somewhat more feminist than the 21th century modern adaptation. i love bbc’s irene adler and her potential, but i believe her to be a victim of patriarchy despite her apparent status as a “strong independent woman”
If you have not seen it already, I think you would really enjoy the Jeremy Brett Adventures of Sherlock Holmes. Irene Adler appears in it's 1st episode
agreed w/ happiestmango!! the jeremy brett holmes series is one i really, really enjoy 🥰 and their depiction of irene is amazing imo, she has a good balance of fortitude and softness, and we get to see how she uses not only her general cleverness but especially her theater knowledge to keep the upper hand - plus, we stan godfrey in this house!! 👏 he loved her for her and was willing to do whatever was needed for her to feel safe (forgoing any formal ceremony for the most barebones wedding so it could be done faster and she'd have more societal security, sailing off to america with her for physical distance from the king, etc)
knowing that's how she was in the story & the brett adaptation *really* made my disappointment in bbc's take hit hard 😮💨
I think it’s pretty disgusting how almost an entire all male team (writers, actors, etc - but especially moffat) belittled teenage girls for liking something in their own way. Like imagine being a 40 something man and bullying a 15 year old.
KJO Really compelling argument against a legitimate point. Go on.
.
"Imagine being a 40 something man and bullying a 15 year old" could literally be a resume of some parts of the internet. And that's sad.
By the way these teenage girls are smarter that this overhyped falsely intellectual twat ruining franchise after franchise.
@@kjo1849 Imagine being pissed at someone for saying that an adult bullying a teenager isn’t acceptable. Grow up snowflake.
i hate how shows that are blatantly queerbaiting get so much attention, while actual representation gets no attention and then cancelled after 1 season :/
Exactly! It's so frustrating tbh
Also, Netflix does this a lot.
I am not okay with 'I Am Not Okay With This' being cancelled.
feel like pure shit just want one day at a time back x
The problem is that shows with explicit gay romance in the first season tend to be more niche, and hit a smaller audience. Meanwhile, shows that eternally dance around the issue while winking at the audience tend to be more mainstream. That plausible deniability bullshit gives you both the gays and the homophobes. Also, wildly speculating on whether two characters are _probably_ gay gets the fandom drama whirring a lot harder than two characters who are _genuinely_ gay.
@@kortmann9 same. That show was amazing but somehow we got 365 Days and were getting a third kissing booth film
I think people just kind of overestimate Moffat. He loves to make big dramatic plot questions that he just never seemed to have the answers to. It killed Doctor Who for me when THE question was… Doctor who?
Since watching this show I've learned so much about fandoms. Largely that they are insane. Sending death threats to an actress portraying a character they don't like. They are aware that she is not actually that character right? Like they are aware that this universe is different from the universe on TV and that the universe portrayed on TV is fake?
Oh boy, I hope you never become enamoured with Star Wars.
Yes, fandoms launching targeted harassement campaigns against actors whose character they don't like is an upsettingly common problem in huge, passionate fandoms. And BBC Sherlock certainly was one of those. (Star Wars fans really take the cake though. It's basically all they've been doing for over two decades. They've ruined lives.)
I remember there was a fairly common plot you'd see used in TV sitcoms and daytime TV shows back in the 80's and 90's - "The person who thinks the characters in their favourite soap opera are real." I'm pretty sure this came about because people in the entertainment industry became so used to meeting these obsessed fans whose grip on reality had come loose, and who were convinced they were going to marry fictional characters.
"this quickly boiled into the powerpuff girls making public plans to crash some of these creators' panels, namely the toplockers at the later foodissex con"
...i never thought this would be a sentence i'd hear in my life
Sentences to explain to a 15th century monk
@@myettechase could you imagine finding this about 500 years in the future
r/brandnewsentence
They also took a character pretty widely accepted to be Autistic, amped up his Autistic traits a ton, had John _literally use the word Aspergers in relation to Sherlock_ at some point, then stuck with the "High Functioning Sociopath" narrative and got super defensive in interviews when the Autistic-coding was pointed out. Almost like it's a pattern with these people.....
(Wanna know who else does this? The writers of the Big Bang Theory. Apparently Sheldon Cooper is not Autistic. Because if he was, they'd have to confront how horrible and mean-spirited the jokes about him are.)
The high functioning sociopath things pains me so much, like Moffat look at canon Holmes. Do you see his special interests, his "i want to be alone", his *STIMMING WHEN HE GETS EXCITED*? You seeing that Moffat?
Sociopaths are different; they are usually trauma-made and- and they don't feel as much regret Sherlock Holmes shows to feel- they even end to manipulate more and YES Holmes manipulates people in canon as well - agatha from charles augustus milverton per say.. - but doesn't have any other screaming symptom of sociopathy.
It annoys me
This could be word for word replaced with Mofftis opening their Dracula with the sentence "did you have sex with Dracula" and then sneering in interviews that Dracula is 'just bihomicidal'. They literally do not change, ever. When oh when will the BBC put these men in the bin
Sheldon Cooper is probably one of the most blatantly offensive stereotypes I've seen on modern TV that everyone seems to just be okay with.
@@herlocksholmes-uv5qw I think they at least move it slightly more towards the sociopath direction by revealing / hinting it was trauma made.
Lol I had a creative writing teacher give me this advice once. 'Write about this identity but don't explicitely say the character is that thing, then you don't have to take responsibility if you do a shitty job (a.k.a perpetuate harmful stereotypes)!'. Glad I didn't take it.
Others have said it already, but this is a perfect companion piece to hbomberguy's "sherlock is garbage". That explains why it's bad, and why I can let go of my attachment to it. This explains why it hurt so much at the time. Even completely outside fandom the same issues apply to a much smaller extent, being simultaneously drawn into johnlock, but also rejected by the text. The hurt and confusion of really liking something and not understanding why it also felt so cold and distant.
I'm so glad I didn't arrive at the same solution I did for supernatural, of only being in fandom while not continuing to watch the show, clearly here the fandom was even worse than the show.
Thank you for this.