This is not boring at all! It was absolutely fascinating. I am glad someone finally did a video on this topic, because Airplane valuation has been extremely confusing! Especially in today’s market where there seems to be a big difference between how the market is valuing aircraft, and the VREF valuations that seem to exist in most lending institutions. It was a huge issue for me when I was buying my airplane in May. This is a topic that can be talked about so many different standpoint, and I was so glad to see this one.
I don't comment on videos usually, but I have really enjoyed and learned so much from your videos. This video is absolutely not boring and while most of what you explain is just common sense (really), it is all things that can be easily overlooked or not considered by someone with no experience in valuations (this goes for not just planes but any big ticket item you might be looking at). These videos are a great service to the aviation community. Thank you.
Not nearly as exciting as people agitating (and worse) over the asking prices seen on some ads these days, but infinitely more factual and informative! I learned a lot, as always. Good that you had two fine examples to illustrate from.
Informative and perfectly explained. This video is likely to help many Mark. And having the props (excuse the pun) to hand, especially such well matched aircraft was an added bonus!
Thank you for making this video. I'm a 23 year old working toward my commercial rating. Hoping to buy a mooney as soon as I can afford it. The straightforwardness in these videos is really appreciated. God bless
Mark, This was a great edition,, I owned a Mooney just like the ones you were showing. And the great memories came flowing back. The content and knowledge you passed on to your audience was fantastic.
Thanks for sharing your expertise. I’ve enjoyed my 1968 Mooney for over 22 years with aviation upgrades to include avionics, fuel bladders, and interior upgrade. I contemplated upgrading to a 201. However, I hope she stays solid with me in my retirement years now.
That was fascinating, thanks for walking us through it! I think it's a big help to have a better understanding of all the factors as I've been researching and starting to shop.
I love your channel i found it a few years ago when i decided i can make time to learn how to fly I've wanted to forever just thought it would be to expensive now I'm kicking myself for not learning years ago after high school your videos got me hooked on mooneys when i figured i wanted to buy a plane after i get my PPL and started looking in to owning a plane hopefully ill have my PPL this next summer then I'll be down there picking your brain about them and hopefully buying one
Very informative about how airplane valuations are determined. Your videos Mark, are never boring and a great distraction was enjoyed with the very large rotary fire truck arriving. I did however notice the phone didn't ring this time! 🤣
I'd argue the more expensive one is a better value. It would take more than forty grand in avionics alone to bring the cheaper one up to the more expensive one in that category. Add in the cost of an engine overhaul and you would save tens of thousands if you just paid up front for the more expensive bird. Excellent video! Thank you Mark. It would be cool to fly them side by side while you have both on hand to see if there are any measurable performance differences.
VREF is accurate within limits. It is based on the 90 days previous sales and so is 90 days out of date every quarter. I used it as a guide and so do the banks. I also use recent past sales because they are actual sales with an actual value. If I get in a 182 with a few more hours on the engine that one I have recently sold, I sell it a bit less than the one before it.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 ah interesting. IF I was in the market and budget wasn’t an issue, I would have a hard time choosing between the two aircraft!
Thank you Mark for yet another great informational video.. It is so helpful that you de- mystify so many of these expensive gotcha’s that come with tryin to buy a general aviation aircraft for a wanna be first time airplane owner like myself
I was going to say the N-numbers, though I spotted the different antennas and spinner. Completely missed the reversed stripe and tail colors -- and I know I looked directly at both when you said they had the same paint scheme (excellent misdirection there BTW).
mark: great seeing you today. You forgot to add about the difference between the IO 360 A3b6D and the IO360A3B6 (without the d) There is value added if there is not a "d" meaning two true magnetos and two true drives. I changed over my "d" model to a non "d" model factory new. I was never comfortable with the one drive & 2 mags. This certainly is the preference and adds value. Mike Jacobs
Hi Mark. Greetings from Cape Town. I have 2 cessna 206 aircraft a 1977 U206G-03696 and a 1976 TU206F-03499. Both have been re-engined with the Atlantic Aero STC for the Continental IO550N56B cross flow engine. Just basic King avionics and the 1977 also has a cargo pod. Wonder what they worth? You are most knowledgeable and I really enjoy your channel.
Can’t blame you for taking advantage of such a good opportunity to illustrate how planes are valued. Good job. Unfortunately, I can’t afford the hangar rent. I’ll have to stick with my RC models. 😎
Very interesting and I thought similar to estimating retail on cars or trucks. I was in sales for several years. An old timer told me you never say " cheaper" . It is always less expensive.
I noticed the one with the chrome spinner has the lighter paint color on the leading edge of the tail, the other one has the darker color on the leading edge. Was one repainted incorrectly?
Great video thanks. I get the multiples up or down with engine life, paint & avionics etc, but who or what determines that base figure of $115k, and how have the recent strong growth and subsequent regression in aircraft values occurred?
@ thanks for that. Back here in the old country 🇬🇧 we have a much smaller pool of available aircraft for sale at any one time, particularly once you stray into the exotic or ancient - we run a 1965 Comanche. It makes establishing an average price point tricky…
As usual, ANYTHING BUT BORING Mark! I've always wondered how light aircarft are valued and this was an INTERESTING insight! Really good of you to take the opportunity of having two such similar aircarft to make the comaprison. Please keep bringing out your super videos!
Thanks Marc. As slways very informative. I wonder if you might cvomment or perhaps make a seperate video on how the "base" price/value is calculated/estimated. Where does the base "$115,000 come from?" Does vRef compare actual sales prices or just estimate using some factor? We all know airplanes are "expensive" today but isn't it really what someone is willing to pay that makes the value? Again thanks for your efforts.
That was interesting, Mark! I kind of had a quasi-understanding of that, but not the details like how exactly the engine and airframe hours went into the equation, the panel, the paint, airframe body, any incidents, etc. In general I expect low (relative) airframe and engine (within reason since last OH) times, an updated panel, and nice paint would be worth more...But recently seeing C150s approaching $100K with 10,000 hrs airframe time just blew me away! LOL. I'm thinking ultralight are more my budget nowadays! 😂
Thanks, Mark. Quick question. I noticed there are holes in the seats for headrests (I'm guessing) on the less expensive aircraft. Did the seats originally come with headrests?
Mark, are you getting your valuation data from Vref? I found it fascinating how you can apply a simple formula to TT or engine time. I would love to know where my 210 sits after it comes out of its Avionics upgrade.
As a non pilot, I understand the Mooney to be an “advanced aircraft”. Why was I always discouraged from learning to fly in one? Are they that much more difficult to understand? My thought process was to buy a “c” model, and build time in it. Then you weren’t paying to rent, and your hours would all be “in type”. What am I missing? By the way, excellent presentation. I learned that “original” could be lass expensive than “new and improved” old plane.
Faster more expensive meaning more going on in a shorter amount of time. Which for a beginner, is a handful even on a good day. Combine that with cost of insurance for a rookie I imagine being much higher especially for a retractable gear model, there is not only more risk but more liability. It can be successfully done, but not usually recommended. Mooney is indeed a nice and efficient aircraft though.
@@stubryant9145 thanks for the answer. My 1976 logic at the time was, learn with the gear down, get into the advanced part of the plane as you became proficient with the simple part. But it’s ok. I do not have 3D vision, so I never pursued that hobby.
The different "font" size(s) of the N numbers is what caught my eye. The larger numbers would have been standard that year, no? They liked to brag about the "201" mph top speed! (Of course that was with no antennas, fresh wax, and a case of oil in the trunk 😂)
Realistic everyday numbers. C's are about 140 and J's about 150. We Mooney owners like to give the best high altitude, cross country numbers. Up high add 10 to 20 kts to everything. My J at 12,000 feet did 162 Kts in 7.2 gallons per hour. 34 gallons from Nor cal to Northern Montana with four people in it. Same on the way back.
Not as "exciting" as your usual fair; but very informative - useful. A meat and potatoes sort of stuff that in the long run is probably more useful than your usual video's. Well done. Damn paint scheme snookered me too.
Damn I was wrong, I also challenge you to fly ifr flight plans without a GPS, there's just SO MANY VORs out of service it's damn near impossible to fly victor routes. weird that the nicer one has the original antennas.
Mark, I think you underestimate the value of avionics. The capabilities of what the latest providers offer supporting GA will weigh on the value and desirability of the aircraft. Put a 3rd M20 with a full Garmin glass panel in the mix and I’m betting it sells for more than the additional half hardware value increase as it will be the most capable aircraft. Ask yourself why Cirrus sells? “It’s the parachute.”
The hours and damage are completely irrelevant for a 50 or 60 year old aircraft. In fact a heavily but competently rebuilt aircraft is often more attractive than a "low time" 4000 hour plane.
Damage and hours greatly affect value because it is reflected in the buyers responses when presented to the market against planes with no damage and with lower hours. The machine itself does not care or perform differently and an old plane that is restored is better than original, BUT this video was about valuations.
This is not boring at all! It was absolutely fascinating. I am glad someone finally did a video on this topic, because Airplane valuation has been extremely confusing! Especially in today’s market where there seems to be a big difference between how the market is valuing aircraft, and the VREF valuations that seem to exist in most lending institutions. It was a huge issue for me when I was buying my airplane in May. This is a topic that can be talked about so many different standpoint, and I was so glad to see this one.
Thanks. Glad to help!
Not boring. Extremely interesting.
It was a little bit boring.
It’s ok we’re built different lol. It was interesting! Also I’ll watch anything over studying for my written! 😂
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Likely only because it's old hat to you : )
Glad you did the video, it was inter...I enjoyed it!
Very informative Mark , as are all your videos, always looking for your next one. Cheers from Australia
I love how you just stopped to watch the Chinook. We all get it. All aviation enthusiasts.
Pilots always look up when they hear an engine.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Yes, we do!
I don't comment on videos usually, but I have really enjoyed and learned so much from your videos. This video is absolutely not boring and while most of what you explain is just common sense (really), it is all things that can be easily overlooked or not considered by someone with no experience in valuations (this goes for not just planes but any big ticket item you might be looking at). These videos are a great service to the aviation community. Thank you.
Appreciate the kind words.
Being a life long aviation nerd and artist, I love your channel. Thank you for your professionalism.
Thanks. I did not know I was a nerd until I started this channel.
Not nearly as exciting as people agitating (and worse) over the asking prices seen on some ads these days, but infinitely more factual and informative! I learned a lot, as always.
Good that you had two fine examples to illustrate from.
Excellent!
First time I have seen someone try to demystify the wild swings one sees in aircraft pricing. Some great "behind the scenes" information!
Informative and perfectly explained. This video is likely to help many Mark. And having the props (excuse the pun) to hand, especially such well matched aircraft was an added bonus!
Glad it was helpful!
Mark, What I noticed was the spinner and N number size was different. This is among the very best of your videos you’ve done!
Thanks.
Thank you for making this video. I'm a 23 year old working toward my commercial rating. Hoping to buy a mooney as soon as I can afford it. The straightforwardness in these videos is really appreciated. God bless
Glad I can help.
Mark, This was a great edition,, I owned a Mooney just like the ones you were showing. And the great memories came flowing back. The content and knowledge you passed on to your audience was fantastic.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Thanks for sharing your expertise. I’ve enjoyed my 1968 Mooney for over 22 years with aviation upgrades to include avionics, fuel bladders, and interior upgrade. I contemplated upgrading to a 201. However, I hope she stays solid with me in my retirement years now.
Is yours an F?
That was fascinating, thanks for walking us through it! I think it's a big help to have a better understanding of all the factors as I've been researching and starting to shop.
Glad you enjoyed the video.
I love your channel i found it a few years ago when i decided i can make time to learn how to fly I've wanted to forever just thought it would be to expensive now I'm kicking myself for not learning years ago after high school your videos got me hooked on mooneys when i figured i wanted to buy a plane after i get my PPL and started looking in to owning a plane hopefully ill have my PPL this next summer then I'll be down there picking your brain about them and hopefully buying one
Glad I could help you with your Mooney decision!
This video is not boring at all! As someone who is currently buying a Mooney I found it extremely helpful.
Glad it was helpful, Good luck with your purchase.
1st time I've ever seen a chinook without a military paint scheme.
Excellent presentation giving all of the reader's Important information..... very worth while !!!!!
I'm glad you found it helpful.
Very informative about how airplane valuations are determined. Your videos Mark, are never boring and a great distraction was enjoyed with the very large rotary fire truck arriving. I did however notice the phone didn't ring this time! 🤣
It rang right after we cut and we looked at each other and laughed.
I paused at 1:16…
The Mooney closest to you has two antenna, while the one farther away has only one, and it has a different shape.
(Ok, missed that one. 😊)
Great video!
True but not what I was asking.
Bravo mate! Nicely done. As someone who has run a flight school and bought aircraft, I approve of this video
Appreciate it.
You Sir, are a Boon to the Aviation Community!
Thank you.
Another great video by Mark, and as a 201 owner I can really appreciate this.
Glad it helped.
Very interesting and knowledgeable answers shared. This is key info for anyone in the market
Extremely informative, thank you!
Appreciate it!
Always enjoy your vids Mark. Keep up the great content
Not boring at all , really good information !
Thanks.
Entertaining and useful! Job well done!
Excellent video, thanks for taking the time to explain valuations in detail.
Very interesting, thanks for pulling this together! I have learned a lot from you and your channel for sure.
I'm glad you liked it.
antennas and spinner. I like the one that can be used as a mirror.
They are different but that was not it.
Thanks Mark, great content
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks, Mark. Very informative.
Excellent as always! Timely too as I am perusing the markets and nearly have the wife convinced.
Good luck.
Great info, thanks
Good detailed information. Not boring. Thanks.
Interesting video--excellent topic-worthwhile, especially for new pilots but also for old pilots
Thanks.
I'd argue the more expensive one is a better value. It would take more than forty grand in avionics alone to bring the cheaper one up to the more expensive one in that category. Add in the cost of an engine overhaul and you would save tens of thousands if you just paid up front for the more expensive bird. Excellent video! Thank you Mark. It would be cool to fly them side by side while you have both on hand to see if there are any measurable performance differences.
Yes, They'd fly exactly the same.
Guys, this is some of your best work. I want to watch it again!
Do you find VREF to be fairly accurate compared to the market?
Even I watched it again.............
VREF is accurate within limits. It is based on the 90 days previous sales and so is 90 days out of date every quarter. I used it as a guide and so do the banks. I also use recent past sales because they are actual sales with an actual value. If I get in a 182 with a few more hours on the engine that one I have recently sold, I sell it a bit less than the one before it.
@@skywagonuniversity5023 ah interesting. IF I was in the market and budget wasn’t an issue, I would have a hard time choosing between the two aircraft!
I saw the colors on the tails were reverse but I first noticed the nose cone with one being painted and the other shinny.
Yes, the colors
Thanks for your expertise!
Very interesting video.
Thank you Mark for yet another great informational video.. It is so helpful that you de- mystify so many of these expensive gotcha’s that come with tryin to buy a general aviation aircraft for a wanna be first time airplane owner like myself
You're welcome.
This was very helpful. Lots of learning going on here.
Thanks.
Fascinating! Thanks Mark.
Glad you liked it.
This was great! Makes perfect sense with such a great explanation. And fun stuff for a math geek like me.
I'm terrible at Math but I can value a plane is 25 seconds.
Great video and I would like to see more about other planes now that the market has changed to a buyers market.
I'm not sure that the market has changed to a buyers market.
Great Information !
I was going to say the N-numbers, though I spotted the different antennas and spinner.
Completely missed the reversed stripe and tail colors -- and I know I looked directly at both when you said they had the same paint scheme (excellent misdirection there BTW).
I did not notice it for three days.
Love your videos and commentary!😊
Glad you enjoy them.
Awesome video! Not boring at all!
Glad you enjoyed it
Awesome job Mark - thank you for the Video 🛩👍
Thanks.
Excellent content.
Very informative!
Thanks.
Very useful information. Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
mark: great seeing you today. You forgot to add about the difference between the IO 360 A3b6D and the IO360A3B6 (without the d) There is value added if there is
not a "d" meaning two true magnetos and two true drives. I changed over my "d" model to a non "d" model factory new. I was never comfortable with the one drive & 2 mags. This certainly is the preference and adds value. Mike Jacobs
Thanks Mike.
Fantastic video.
Great way to look at it.
That is now it works on every single plane. Hours on a plane like miles on a car.
Hi Mark. Greetings from Cape Town. I have 2 cessna 206 aircraft a 1977 U206G-03696 and a 1976 TU206F-03499. Both have been re-engined with the Atlantic Aero STC for the Continental IO550N56B cross flow engine. Just basic King avionics and the 1977 also has a cargo pod. Wonder what they worth? You are most knowledgeable and I really enjoy your channel.
A lot. I'd have to know more. E-mail me. Also not in touch with the SA market.
@@skywagonuniversity5023Will do, thx
Giving away your secrets or letting potential buyers know why they cost what they do? I dig it, keep up the good content.
An educated customer is a better customer.
Great video
The only difference I could see before watching the whole video is the front top antennas. The shapes are different 😁
Very interesting video Mark. Where do VREF get the base price data from - actual sales prices or something else?
Actual reported sales prices from the last 90 days.
That’s was interesting..cheers fella’s👍
Glad you liked it.
Enjoyed the video. Hoping to purchase an airplane in the future
Glad I could help.
Very informative 👏
Thanks
Awesome info
Can’t blame you for taking advantage of such a good opportunity to illustrate how planes are valued. Good job. Unfortunately, I can’t afford the hangar rent. I’ll have to stick with my RC models. 😎
RC is fun too.
extremely interesting.
Good info. Where get price rates on engine or airframe hours. Buyers book guide?
Mostly the Vref price guide and Bluebook and the open market.
The differences I noticed were the prop spinners and the antennas
Those are true but it is the main colors are reversed.
Very interesting and I thought similar to estimating retail on cars or trucks. I was in sales for several years. An old timer told me you never say " cheaper" . It is always less expensive.
Great point!
Awesome
I noticed the one with the chrome spinner has the lighter paint color on the leading edge of the tail, the other one has the darker color on the leading edge. Was one repainted incorrectly?
Well spotted. It is that the paint schemes are reversed. One is brown with orange and the other is orange with brown.
Great video thanks. I get the multiples up or down with engine life, paint & avionics etc, but who or what determines that base figure of $115k, and how have the recent strong growth and subsequent regression in aircraft values occurred?
The base value comes from an algorithm based on the previous 90 days sales. AND very importantly for me. Comparisons with recent panes I have sold.
@ thanks for that. Back here in the old country 🇬🇧 we have a much smaller pool of available aircraft for sale at any one time, particularly once you stray into the exotic or ancient - we run a 1965 Comanche. It makes establishing an average price point tricky…
As usual, ANYTHING BUT BORING Mark! I've always wondered how light aircarft are valued and this was an INTERESTING insight! Really good of you to take the opportunity of having two such similar aircarft to make the comaprison. Please keep bringing out your super videos!
OK, Thanks Will do.
“Join us next week when we feature the Boeing Vertol CH-47D Chinook.”
Ha ha ha ha I tried but the pilots were not up for it.
very helpful thanks
Thanks Marc. As slways very informative. I wonder if you might cvomment or perhaps make a seperate video on how the "base" price/value is calculated/estimated. Where does the base "$115,000 come from?" Does vRef compare actual sales prices or just estimate using some factor? We all know airplanes are "expensive" today but isn't it really what someone is willing to pay that makes the value? Again thanks for your efforts.
Good point. The Base value comes from the last 90 days reported sales.
Very interesting
Glad you think so!
Radio antennas are different 😊
They are but that's not it.
That was interesting, Mark! I kind of had a quasi-understanding of that, but not the details like how exactly the engine and airframe hours went into the equation, the panel, the paint, airframe body, any incidents, etc. In general I expect low (relative) airframe and engine (within reason since last OH) times, an updated panel, and nice paint would be worth more...But recently seeing C150s approaching $100K with 10,000 hrs airframe time just blew me away! LOL. I'm thinking ultralight are more my budget nowadays! 😂
A 150 can never be $100,000. Was there really one. A good 150 is $45,000 Max
@@skywagonuniversity5023 Check trade a plane, there is a C152 with over 10,000 hrs over $100K. A C150 for $85K (it does have a nice panel though)
Thanks, Mark. Quick question. I noticed there are holes in the seats for headrests (I'm guessing) on the less expensive aircraft. Did the seats originally come with headrests?
Yes, They come with headrests but they invariability get lost.
Mark, are you getting your valuation data from Vref? I found it fascinating how you can apply a simple formula to TT or engine time. I would love to know where my 210 sits after it comes out of its Avionics upgrade.
Vref and comparables yes,.
As a non pilot, I understand the Mooney to be an “advanced aircraft”. Why was I always discouraged from learning to fly in one? Are they that much more difficult to understand? My thought process was to buy a “c” model, and build time in it. Then you weren’t paying to rent, and your hours would all be “in type”. What am I missing?
By the way, excellent presentation. I learned that “original” could be lass expensive than “new and improved” old plane.
Faster more expensive meaning more going on in a shorter amount of time. Which for a beginner, is a handful even on a good day. Combine that with cost of insurance for a rookie I imagine being much higher especially for a retractable gear model, there is not only more risk but more liability. It can be successfully done, but not usually recommended. Mooney is indeed a nice and efficient aircraft though.
Yes, What he said.
@@stubryant9145 thanks for the answer. My 1976 logic at the time was, learn with the gear down, get into the advanced part of the plane as you became proficient with the simple part.
But it’s ok. I do not have 3D vision, so I never pursued that hobby.
The different "font" size(s) of the N numbers is what caught my eye. The larger numbers would have been standard that year, no? They liked to brag about the "201" mph top speed! (Of course that was with no antennas, fresh wax, and a case of oil in the trunk 😂)
The main difference is the reverse paint scheme. Yes, pffftt. 201 MPH. They do not do that but they are still great.
You ever fly a Pipistrel?
Yes, but just the Panthera. ua-cam.com/video/_h0bFuC0lLk/v-deo.html
But. We also have a buddy with a Pipistrel Alpha trainer and will do a video on it.
Great “ Arpha “ …. sorry honest Mark ….. 🤗 no puppy under the arm ….? Tucked the fin away as well ….
Joking aside , excellent content 👌
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
My m20c does 145 knots, is the J really only 5 knots faster?
Realistic everyday numbers. C's are about 140 and J's about 150. We Mooney owners like to give the best high altitude, cross country numbers. Up high add 10 to 20 kts to everything. My J at 12,000 feet did 162 Kts in 7.2 gallons per hour. 34 gallons from Nor cal to Northern Montana with four people in it. Same on the way back.
first thing i noticed was the size of the N numbers
True but it's the colors reversed.
Which one is your Mooney?
Neither. Mine is the green M20E in the Mooney models comparison.
Can't believe the one mooney is an entire quintillion more than the other
That is a lot.
Different prop spinners, (painted vs metal plated)
True but not it.
Polished not plated
I thought antennas were going to be the difference.
They were one thing.
275 gyro? looks like a AV-30
You are right I was glossing over it for valuation purposes. Thanks.
I thought the spinners was the glaring difference
One of them.
Not as "exciting" as your usual fair; but very informative - useful. A meat and potatoes sort of stuff that in the long run is probably more useful than your usual video's. Well done.
Damn paint scheme snookered me too.
And me, for three days and I was here with them.
Tail numbers are different place.
True but not it
1:05 modern antennas on the right one, therefore better avionics. Also bigger N numbers so it should be the only one that can fly into Canada?
Damn I was wrong, I also challenge you to fly ifr flight plans without a GPS, there's just SO MANY VORs out of service it's damn near impossible to fly victor routes. weird that the nicer one has the original antennas.
Let's just say that it is "Old school IFR"
Mark, I think you underestimate the value of avionics. The capabilities of what the latest providers offer supporting GA will weigh on the value and desirability of the aircraft. Put a 3rd M20 with a full Garmin glass panel in the mix and I’m betting it sells for more than the additional half hardware value increase as it will be the most capable aircraft. Ask yourself why Cirrus sells? “It’s the parachute.”
Extreme avionics will add a huge amount.
I'll bet the colors are reversed to use up those two color paints at the factory. Assuming the builders bought the same amount of each color.
That could be why, or two paint shops and one did it wrong.
The hours and damage are completely irrelevant for a 50 or 60 year old aircraft. In fact a heavily but competently rebuilt aircraft is often more attractive than a "low time" 4000 hour plane.
Damage and hours greatly affect value because it is reflected in the buyers responses when presented to the market against planes with no damage and with lower hours. The machine itself does not care or perform differently and an old plane that is restored is better than original, BUT this video was about valuations.