This is an excellent tutorial for us dummies. I have been wanting to upgrade my cams and oil pump for awhile now and this was a good confidence booster. Thanks!
Your welcome and everyone has to learn somehow just take your time and you’ll be able to do it no problem. If you have any questions when you do it post them here I’ll try to help as much as I can.
Buddy, that is a GREAT video. I have watched many on cam upgrades and by far this is the best one I have see. I will be watching this several more times before I tackle mine. Thanks for your effort!
Thanks I really appreciate it I’m trying to make better videos when I get time. I like to help out others if I can. Good luck with the cam job brother!
Another tip. Put a small scissor jack under the motor and remove the upper and front motor mount. Lower the jack and it gives you enough clearance to remove the rear rockers.
NOTE TO ANYONE USING THIS TOOL. This is a good video as far as procedure and some use of tool. I had found that when screwing the bearing remover into the cam bearing the leading edge of the fingers would cut into bearing face, not good. I then proceeded to file edges down on fingers to prevent this, it did not help. The minimal directions sent with tool says to screw puller or what they refer to as collet into plate so about 1 1/4 inches of thread are on outer side of plate then to push collet through bearing by hand using a small hammer if needed to assist. This was sketchy because it really took some force to push it and using a hammer didn't help. What I did find was if you squeeze fingers together on collet it makes the diameter smaller and thus allows ease of inserting tool through bearing. After I did this the tool worked flawlessly. Also as Dan d mentioned in previous comment about using wire ties to keep fingers spreading when installing tool is used it says to slide one of the old bearings over tool before installing into plate. This worked but was a little tight. Use T handle to pop bearing install tool out of collet and slide old bearing off. Hope this is useful. And thanks for video.
Rick Snyder Hi Rick that is a great comment and I had to squeeze the ears on the collet in to readjust the diameter of the ears they got spread. I bought another cam bearing puller and installer but they’re 2 separate tools I want to try that on the next one I do and see if that is a better set up then this one. I think if you readjust the ears on the collet to keep it perfectly round and the correct diameter it works good.
Yep that rear assembly is tight. I started just to inspect the cam chain tensioner on my 2000 FLSTC with 49,500 miles and decided to go ahead and replace the cams, cam plate, oil pump and lifters. I went with Feuling, except for S&S cams. Have seen some videos where they cut the pushrods and use adjustable rods so they don't have to take the rockers apart, but that way they miss replacing the breather elements on the top end. Good video.
Is there a lip around the inside of the case to keep each of the cams from being pushed in too far in? Also, if each cam is not counter sank (pushed in) sufficiently, would that affect the installation of the cam plate?
The cams can only go in one way you can’t really mess that up the cam bearings though need to be pressed in so there counter sunk a tiny bit and the correct pressing tool will do that for you so use the proper pressing tool
Very detailed instructions! Thank you for making this great video. I have a couple of questions: How did you torque the bolts closest to the cylinders when installing the lifters blocks. I had to remove them using an allen key and can't fit a ratchet or a torque wrench in back there. Also, isn't it recommended to use the centering dowels to align the oil pump?
Thank you I tightened those bolt without a torque wrench you just have to do it by feel because how tight it is and the reason you tighten the oil pump hand tight and rotate the engine a few times then tighten is to center it on the crank that’s what all the instructions say to do on these kits.
@@glen1498 Thanks for the reply. I find it odd that Feuling would not follow the Harley manual that says to use the centering dowels. How did this method work for you so far? Do you have proper oil pressure without any pump wear issues? I went and ordered the dowels just to be sure not to trash my oil pump.
@@CPerreault are you referring to the dowels in the case to center the cam plate they are still there and are important to make sure they don’t get misplaced. You have to use the dowels to align the cam plate yes
Miles P.R.O. TTG Atlanta Mother Chapter MC They are both good and either one won’t steer you wrong there’s a good video on UA-cam a Harley shot did that explains the feuling S&S and the Cvo oil pump cam plate and the S&S and fueling are way better then the Harley
Alan Whiteside Thanks just trying to give some people some insight on the job and thanks for the feedback I’ll make sure I turn off the compressor when recording next time lol 👍
That’s cool was run out all within specs. We were gonna do gears but my buddy ordered everything before I had time to do it so we went with chains just Incase runout was high
Did mine today, fuleing pump, had a helluva time sliding sub through o ring to mount flush. Lube up & still not wanting to flush up!! Almost like the o-ring is too thick. Anyone else have that problem?
Question for you softail is my favorite...... but what is apart from oil tank battery and shocks ,dyna super glide wide glide so basically i'm asked are they any less power or anything like that status ...as softail widening that arse end same can be done with wideglide and all the other glides dyna's (sportster is OUT for me so no need to go there) it's only softail,wide glide super glide and dyna fatboy....and is the twin cam better than the evo or is the evo a better engine i do like the rocker box on the twin cam better..thanks
Damien Speers twin cams are great engines but certain years did have some valve guide issues and burning excessive oil I think it was 05 but have to check that and as far as twin cam over evo both are great engines I think evos were more reliable but if both taken care properly and tuned correctly can run a long time with no major issues earlier twin cams with spring loaded cam chain tensioners were an issue and there’s an update for that and the primary chain was updated to auto adjusted primary chains as well as far as bike goes Softail dyna etc f’ing a bike your comfortable on sole people love the ride of the dyna over the Softail and touring bikes are another option you can try and see how you like the ride. Good luck with your purchase and ride safe.
Great video, thanks for posting. I have a question I am hoping you can assist with input. I have a 2003 Road King. I am in the process of upgrading my spring loaded cam chain tensioners (thanks Harley) to hydraulic. Currently, I have Rinehart slip on mufflers, high flow intake, remapped ECM and a Feulpak. If I now install Feuling's 525 (bolt in) cams, do I need to remap the ECM or run a power commander (or other controller) due to the new cams?
e b Thanks if your changing your cams then you will need to remap it for the cams you install due to the fact you’ll be taking in more air and fuel because the new cam with have more lift and duration. If you have a fuel pak you will be able to use that to remap and there’s no need to buy a power commander. I am not sure why you had the ecm remapped and then installed a fuel pak essentially that is doing the same thing just two different ways. Some people today are just remapping there ecm and not buying a power commander fuel pak etc because there’s less chances of something failing and you have more room for wires etc but there’s some guys who like to play with the PCV or fuel pak and play with tunes on there own but if your not educated on how to tune a bike have a qualified shop tune your bike it will be cheaper in the long run. Good luck with the cam 👍
@@NoIDa-cq6jh The difference is that the the cam plate has the cams and oil pump bolted to it. The cam chest is the cavity in the engine block that holds the cam plate.
matt8863 Thanks I never did it that way the installer works great and they press right in no problem when I worked on airplane engines we would heat the cylinder head and drop the valve seats right in but wouldn’t heat the case on a bike to press cam bearings in.
I know it was a year ago but do you remember the crank runout measurement? I'm ready to do mine but not sure if I should measure before or just install and ride.
@@mechanicschannel1 I'm going with chain. Just curious what the max is for chain driven for this plate. I have the parts ordered but think I'll hold off until I get a measurement first.
I hate sjw's I found this online quickly I will check the service manual later but this should be close Got these specs off another site, which are a revision, supposedly to the service manual.Flywheel specifications: Run-Out (crankshaft in crankcase) is 0-.010" Run-Out (crankshaft on a truing stand) is 0-.004" Flywheel Service Wear Limits: Run-Out (crankshaft in crankcase) is .012" Run-Out (crankshaft on a truing stand) is 0-.005"
yoo can i ask ya a question ? im about to buy a 2004 Dyna Lowrider and what to get an upgraded cam plate and oil pump. the question is , can i use the stock cams in the feuling cam plate? this is gonna be my budget 88ci that i want to use to keep the miles off my other bike . im trying to avoid pressing cam plate bearing as i don't have a press . thanks bud oh, also what would i use for tuning if i went with a bigger cams? i really dont feel like doing a $400 tuner session plus another $400 for a tune session .
BaggerBro I’m pretty sure feuling S&S and Harley have a cam plate that uses the stock cams with the newer style cam chain tensioners but there will still be pressing involved. If you want to go with a bigger cam anyway I would suggest upgrading cam plate and cams together I think you would be happier with performance. There are ways to get the cams out with the correct pressing tool and using a little bit of heat and tap them out but I think a press is the safest way. Good luck with project and ride safe brother!
If you ever use that removal tool and the fingers start to spread as ur installing the bearing like i did. Put 2 zipties over the fingers to keep them from spreading.
Dan d yeah I ended up returning mine it worked good but didn’t like the fingers spreading like that so I bought another tool where the installer and puller are separate I’ll post what I bought.
@@mechanicschannel1 What cam bearing tool(s) did you buy as a replacement? i just called Heartland (MBS Manufacturing) to ask some questions about their M8 cam bearing tool and the guy was clueless and spoke broken English and couldn't answer some basic questions. I knew their prices were to good to be true...
WheelSpin1320 it’s made by Marine tool products I think. I’ll find the name and post the info. It’s 2 separate tools a puller and installer but think it will work out better.
@@mechanicschannel1 awesome IV heard really good things and almost used it in my 2016 flss when I switch to the redshift 587 cam but people told me that the crank case scavenge port was to small and not seating on some of the fueling oil pumps, so I held off and used a baisley spring and plunger, which works but I think I'm gonna go fueling when I deck and port my heads in a month.
Hi Ed he had a power commander 3 on the bike already he just brought it to John at Dyno Solutions and retuned it’s and it runs Great! He put about 15k miles on It already and still going strong! If you do cams you’ll definitely have to get a tuner or a reflash on a Dyno. Thanks
Thanks for the reply. Getting ready to do the same upgrade with the Feuling 525 conversion cams and cam plate to change to hydraulic tensioners on a 2003 FI Road King, including the rocker shaft sleeves. Your video is great for showing all the details.
Another fast question now that I have the Cam plate and 525 Cam upgrade complete and starting to put a few miles on locally. Did you experience increase in mechanical noise from the cam chest after the upgrade? I didn't pay any particular attention before, but it seems to be a bit louder than I remember, and I wonder if the roller chains may be louder than the stock flat chains. I may just be paranoid. The 2003 88" twin cam does run well with the 525 cams and tune flashed from the DynoJet Power Vision tuner, which is what Feuling recommended when I contacted them . The Rockout sleeves did help a little on top end noise. Thanks for the previous feedback.
Ed Rico Hi Ed no didn’t notice any difference in noise did you make your you shimmed the cam gear with the crank gear correctly other then that it should be good and did you leave the mounting screws hand tight and spin the engine a couple of times then tighten the cam plate down in the correct sequence I’d have to hear the engine running to see how it sounds to give you any more info. You can probably send me a quick video of it and I can see what I think about it. Thanks
Mechanics Channel I took a couple of fast iPhone videos of my Road King as well as a stock 2014 TriGlide 103 and uploaded on my UA-cam page. I followed your instructions exactly as far as spinning the crank as part of lining up the cam plate and oil pump. I even went so far as to buy the Feuling dial indicator tool to check my crankshaft runout. Only thing I did different on my upgrade is that I reused the stock rocker shaft supports with the Rockout inserts. Thanks for your help
Its down to which cam plate and pump. Harley stock plate with aftermarket blow off valve and stock pump, fueling plate with aftermarket blow off valve and fueling pump or S&S plate with adjustable valve and pump?
I am split between Fueling and S&S. Someone has a video saying out of the box the Fueling valve should be replaced. S&S sounds pretty solid and their valve is adjustable. Not that that helps much. Can't adjust it when the bike is running.
DobermansRock I think you can’t go wrong with either one are you really going to adjust it yourself ? I think you’ll be fine the most important thing is assembly and centering the camp plate and pump
DobermansRock Yes it will but regardless of what pump plate you use you need to center it best as possible they say check run out so if it’s way off pull apart the lower end to correct it and if your running timing gears instead of a chain it’s even more crucial.
I know they tell you not to use loctite on those threads. I think because the torque can change when it dries but not a 100% sure why I think you’ll be fine either way you go and I wouldn’t worry about that.
Luis Caruso He wanted to do a bigger cam and decided to go with the newer style cam plate that uses the newer style bearings he could have kept the cam plate and used conversion cams the screamin eagle cam plate would have been ok but I think the feuling is a bit better.
Common issue with the TC OEM chestplates is bad oil pressure release valve. This results in oil burning especially at hugh revs. The upgraded pump and chestplate also support higher hp applications.
@@mechanicschannel1 if you want came in Italy i live in Roma. I whont onor you change pomp oil end catain. When you whont my mail: carmelo.palmini@libero.it Yar meccanic for harley no wery well 🤔😔😔
Al Engdahl I would soak them down with PB Blaster or aero kroil works good too worst case if the stud come out too you can install a new stud you can try a little heat also but be careful the head is aluminum
Was going straight for the heat first. Don’t want to break the studs. This is my only worry on this project. Any thoughts? Doing the same thing to my 07 Heritage. Thank for the quick reply.
Al Engdahl if you have a torch with a small tip to concentrate heat only on the nut that will work fine if you use an impact use a 3/8 drive and tap it in reverse just a bit and then go back right and bit back and forth until you see the nut moving personally I like to use a wrench and feel it to see if it’s breaking free or not being a automotive mechanic for 30 years I’ve had my share of stubborn bolts nuts etc heat does work the best but if your not use to using it you can make things worse if you heat up what your not supposed too using a torch with a tight tip so it concentrates all the heat directly on the nut only should work good for you.
gary engman I can try to find a like but you can look for precision marine tools you can buy them on eBay and probably Amazon about a 100 bucks and I would buy a cam gear locking tool which is about 20 bucks if I find the link I’ll post it.
@@mechanicschannel1 did it work for u at all ...I have an 01 TC 88 electriglide and I need to do this tensioner kit.. want to do gears but if hydro works might try it
@@mechanicschannel1 .... Right , I don't think I'll ever buy a Harley again. The dealers are rip - offs ! I've had them try to rip me more than once. One dealer switched my rear spoke wheel for one that had rust while a new tire was installed. Another dealer switched my 200.00 mirrors for scratched up ones. Once I heard a tinging noise in the engine so I thought best to let the dealer check it out. They told me I needed a new 4000.00 engine , I rode my bike home and it was Harley's junkie ass cam chain tensioner. All the problems Harley has is their own fault , so kiss my big ass Harley.
Ringo Gingo yeah that’s why I do all my own works the dealers charge way too much and works not as good as mine so keep using manuals researching repairs online and do your own work. Hope the bike runs good for you.
@@mechanicschannel1 ... Yes , I did the same job on my Road king as you did . I used the Andrew 26N cam with the Feuling plate. I do all my own work on everything I own, Now ! Get ready to fix your Harley pressed together crankshaft once it has run out, crankshaft wobble. Replacing it with an S&S crank , Harley should be buying engines from S&S. Even if you replace the cam plate with hydraulic tensioners they still wear and the inter tentionder is tons of work to just check it.
DobermansRock Yeah I told him but he was worried about runout and noise etc. I will be doing gears in mine when I pull it apart along with adjustable pushrods.
Worried about the noise. Heck the noise is the best part of gear drive cams, after the performance side of it. I am running the S&S 625's in mine. Some guys ask if they should go that route or the 585. For a mild street bike the 585 is fine. I am running Edelbrock heads, Mikuni HSR 45 on a 95 with 10.5-1 comp. 625 was not going to be too much. I have the Jim's Titanium adjustable in mine. Looking back. I would have taken 4 measurements and had solid rods cut and made from Titanium. That eliminates any worry of a rod coming apart. Undecided what to do if the run out is beyond 0.004 Doing a bottom end is a lot of time and money. Going with the Fueling plate and pump. Bought the baisley valve. Word is to use the fueling valve spring but use the Baisley valve. I have the Baisley #4 spring but undecided weather to use it or not.
Ditch the stock lifters. They come with oiling problems as well. The rockers are already rollers so I wouldn't put too much energy on them. The lifters from Harley can go. Actually the only Harley part in my valvetrain. Is the pushrod tubes. Stock tubes don't allow for adjustment of adjustable rods. If you do go to a higher lift cam. You will have to grind out the rocker box plates. They won't clear the larger exhaust valve spring retainers. Which you will want with a higher lift cam. Right now I am planning this next job as best I can. Nothing worse than breaking into your scoot. Just to find you have to stop on a part. If I can have everything built up ready to go It saves frustration. I have to look but there is a better bearing for the inboard side of the cams. If I find it I will post it here. Its a T- 132 I think but let me look.
Correction. The rockers are not roller. For some reason I always thought mine were. I replaced them with Jims when I built the engine. Sorry man. I forgot my dementia pills today. Built the engine in 06. Looking things over. I have lateral play on my rockers. .03 -.013 is the book. I will hit them tomorrow with a gauge. Too cold right now. Shim as needed. Cam cover shows some wear from the cam gear pickup. Cam gear shows nada. Going to pull the gears and plate tomorrow. Fingers crossed my run out is not out. If it is. I will have to shut down and order a aftermarket crank. I won't even mess with the Harley crank. Its not worth the time. I have an 88 built in 99. Ultima makes a good crank from what Tatro recommends. Stick with the 4" stroke. Move towards oversquare.
Tom Young no not rebuilding it lol just cam upgrade bike runs great! Unfortunately some kid hit my friend and his wife in a parking lot but there ok and the bike barely got damaged so he’s still running it 👍
This is an excellent tutorial for us dummies. I have been wanting to upgrade my cams and oil pump for awhile now and this was a good confidence booster. Thanks!
Your welcome and everyone has to learn somehow just take your time and you’ll be able to do it no problem. If you have any questions when you do it post them here I’ll try to help as much as I can.
Buddy, that is a GREAT video. I have watched many on cam upgrades and by far this is the best one I have see. I will be watching this several more times before I tackle mine. Thanks for your effort!
Thanks I really appreciate it I’m trying to make better videos when I get time. I like to help out others if I can. Good luck with the cam job brother!
BTW, what was the run out on the crankshaft??? i missed that??
Another tip. Put a small scissor jack under the motor and remove the upper and front motor mount. Lower the jack and it gives you enough clearance to remove the rear rockers.
Joseph Civita thanks for that tip I’ll try that next time 👍
NOTE TO ANYONE USING THIS TOOL. This is a good video as far as procedure and some use of tool. I had found that when screwing the bearing remover into the cam bearing the leading edge of the fingers would cut into bearing face, not good. I then proceeded to file edges down on fingers to prevent this, it did not help. The minimal directions sent with tool says to screw puller or what they refer to as collet into plate so about 1 1/4 inches of thread are on outer side of plate then to push collet through bearing by hand using a small hammer if needed to assist. This was sketchy because it really took some force to push it and using a hammer didn't help. What I did find was if you squeeze fingers together on collet it makes the diameter smaller and thus allows ease of inserting tool through bearing. After I did this the tool worked flawlessly. Also as Dan d mentioned in previous comment about using wire ties to keep fingers spreading when installing tool is used it says to slide one of the old bearings over tool before installing into plate. This worked but was a little tight. Use T handle to pop bearing install tool out of collet and slide old bearing off. Hope this is useful. And thanks for video.
Rick Snyder Hi Rick that is a great comment and I had to squeeze the ears on the collet in to readjust the diameter of the ears they got spread. I bought another cam bearing puller and installer but they’re 2 separate tools I want to try that on the next one I do and see if that is a better set up then this one. I think if you readjust the ears on the collet to keep it perfectly round and the correct diameter it works good.
Sounds good! I'm upgrading my 2000 FLSTC and using the Feuling cam pmate kit.
I've got a 88 about the same year . Nice and thorough video !
Yep that rear assembly is tight. I started just to inspect the cam chain tensioner on my 2000 FLSTC with 49,500 miles and decided to go ahead and replace the cams, cam plate, oil pump and lifters. I went with Feuling, except for S&S cams. Have seen some videos where they cut the pushrods and use adjustable rods so they don't have to take the rockers apart, but that way they miss replacing the breather elements on the top end. Good video.
Thanks man yeah it’s good to replace breathers and look in there as well I heard good things about s&s either one you can’t go wrong
Tip, use a long plastic straw to reach into the plug hole. You can grab a few at any place that sells large ice coffee.
A very clear and concise tutorial. I have this job to do so thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Thank you 🙏 if you have any questions lmk take care
Those 525 cams required case clearancing on my tc. I needed .030" as the intake lobes were almost hitting the engine case.
Does this happen on every bike with this cam
Bike just broke 100k miles!! Still runs awesome!!
Is there a lip around the inside of the case to keep each of the cams from being pushed in too far in? Also, if each cam is not counter sank (pushed in) sufficiently, would that affect the installation of the cam plate?
The cams can only go in one way you can’t really mess that up the cam bearings though need to be pressed in so there counter sunk a tiny bit and the correct pressing tool will do that for you so use the proper pressing tool
Very detailed instructions! Thank you for making this great video. I have a couple of questions: How did you torque the bolts closest to the cylinders when installing the lifters blocks. I had to remove them using an allen key and can't fit a ratchet or a torque wrench in back there. Also, isn't it recommended to use the centering dowels to align the oil pump?
Thank you I tightened those bolt without a torque wrench you just have to do it by feel because how tight it is and the reason you tighten the oil pump hand tight and rotate the engine a few times then tighten is to center it on the crank that’s what all the instructions say to do on these kits.
@@glen1498 Thanks for the reply. I find it odd that Feuling would not follow the Harley manual that says to use the centering dowels. How did this method work for you so far? Do you have proper oil pressure without any pump wear issues? I went and ordered the dowels just to be sure not to trash my oil pump.
@@CPerreault are you referring to the dowels in the case to center the cam plate they are still there and are important to make sure they don’t get misplaced. You have to use the dowels to align the cam plate yes
Where is the coil located on my 04 Harley Davidson Electra glide Classic flhtci???? Ranman
I think that should be the same area but check your service manual to be sure
Great Video. make this job look easy
Your welcome I’ll be posting more videos eventually just hard to get tile to make them.
What do you think about the Fueling Race Series oil pump and cam plate vs S&S oil pump and cam plate on a Harley M8 114?
Miles P.R.O. TTG Atlanta Mother Chapter MC They are both good and either one won’t steer you wrong there’s a good video on UA-cam a Harley shot did that explains the feuling S&S and the Cvo oil pump cam plate and the S&S and fueling are way better then the Harley
Great video! Nice job!!
Keep up the great work. 👍👍
Oh the compressor running in the back ground once in awhile was disturbing.
Alan Whiteside Thanks just trying to give some people some insight on the job and thanks for the feedback I’ll make sure I turn off the compressor when recording next time lol 👍
yeah i reckon
I just put the fueling oe+ cam plate and oil pump combo in my twin cam street glide and the oil pressure is now real high on the gage is this normal?
When I had any Harley cam chest opened I installed gear cams by s&s and called it a day.
That’s cool was run out all within specs. We were gonna do gears but my buddy ordered everything before I had time to do it so we went with chains just Incase runout was high
Did mine today, fuleing pump, had a helluva time sliding sub through o ring to mount flush. Lube up & still not wanting to flush up!! Almost like the o-ring is too thick. Anyone else have that problem?
Question for you softail is my favorite...... but what is apart from oil tank battery and shocks ,dyna super glide wide glide so basically i'm asked are they any less power or anything like that status ...as softail widening that arse end same can be done with wideglide and all the other glides dyna's (sportster is OUT for me so no need to go there) it's only softail,wide glide super glide and dyna fatboy....and is the twin cam better than the evo or is the evo a better engine i do like the rocker box on the twin cam better..thanks
Damien Speers twin cams are great engines but certain years did have some valve guide issues and burning excessive oil I think it was 05 but have to check that and as far as twin cam over evo both are great engines I think evos were more reliable but if both taken care properly and tuned correctly can run a long time with no major issues earlier twin cams with spring loaded cam chain tensioners were an issue and there’s an update for that and the primary chain was updated to auto adjusted primary chains as well as far as bike goes Softail dyna etc f’ing a bike your comfortable on sole people love the ride of the dyna over the Softail and touring bikes are another option you can try and see how you like the ride. Good luck with your purchase and ride safe.
Cheers brother keep up the good work
Sounds great 👍
What about putting assembly lube on the outer chain so they’re isn’t any wear on the tensioner??
I did use 20w-50 on everything when I installed it but I’ll try to add that to to messages that run along the bottom of the video.
Great video, thanks for posting. I have a question I am hoping you can assist with input. I have a 2003 Road King. I am in the process of upgrading my spring loaded cam chain tensioners (thanks Harley) to hydraulic. Currently, I have Rinehart slip on mufflers, high flow intake, remapped ECM and a Feulpak. If I now install Feuling's 525 (bolt in) cams, do I need to remap the ECM or run a power commander (or other controller) due to the new cams?
e b Thanks if your changing your cams then you will need to remap it for the cams you install due to the fact you’ll be taking in more air and fuel because the new cam with have more lift and duration. If you have a fuel pak you will be able to use that to remap and there’s no need to buy a power commander. I am not sure why you had the ecm remapped and then installed a fuel pak essentially that is doing the same thing just two different ways. Some people today are just remapping there ecm and not buying a power commander fuel pak etc because there’s less chances of something failing and you have more room for wires etc but there’s some guys who like to play with the PCV or fuel pak and play with tunes on there own but if your not educated on how to tune a bike have a qualified shop tune your bike it will be cheaper in the long run. Good luck with the cam 👍
Thanks for sharing. Just a FYI, you kept referring to the cam plate as the cam chest.
Yeah I had my head up my ass trying to keep track of what I was doing lol but next time I’ll get that right.
@@glen1498 No, I sure learned a lot but I recognized cam chest being used as cam plate. I only mention it so others won’t be confused.
What is the difference anyway I thought it’s the same thing?Great video btw thanks 🙏
@@NoIDa-cq6jh The difference is that the the cam plate has the cams and oil pump bolted to it. The cam chest is the cavity in the engine block that holds the cam plate.
You explained it alot harder then it has to be!!!
Froggetatts just tried to explain it best I could.
Awesome video man...What are your thoughts on the heat/freeze process for installing the cam bearings?
matt8863 Thanks I never did it that way the installer works great and they press right in no problem when I worked on airplane engines we would heat the cylinder head and drop the valve seats right in but wouldn’t heat the case on a bike to press cam bearings in.
The typical home freezer won’t help you much, however the oven does wonders for expanding.
Dry ice is available. Place bearings in a igloo with that and put a heat gun on the part to install the bearing in.
I have the same tool you are using. It puts them in perfect. Lol but I still freeze them to
@@dannynoel993 Thanks Danny...I'll do that too. 11 months later and I'm "almost" getting around to it...lol
I know it was a year ago but do you remember the crank runout measurement? I'm ready to do mine but not sure if I should measure before or just install and ride.
I hate sjw's I think it was .004 but check it before you reassemble if you go with gears instead of a chain that measurement is more crucial. Thanks
@@mechanicschannel1 I'm going with chain. Just curious what the max is for chain driven for this plate. I have the parts ordered but think I'll hold off until I get a measurement first.
I hate sjw's I found this online quickly I will check the service manual later but this should be close
Got these specs off another site, which are a revision, supposedly to the service manual.Flywheel specifications:
Run-Out (crankshaft in crankcase) is 0-.010"
Run-Out (crankshaft on a truing stand) is 0-.004"
Flywheel Service Wear Limits:
Run-Out (crankshaft in crankcase) is .012"
Run-Out (crankshaft on a truing stand) is 0-.005"
Excellent video...looks like Oxford CT!
Marc Patterson it’s actually Bethel CT
Marc Patterson thank you
yoo can i ask ya a question ? im about to buy a 2004 Dyna Lowrider and what to get an upgraded cam plate and oil pump. the question is , can i use the stock cams in the feuling cam plate? this is gonna be my budget 88ci that i want to use to keep the miles off my other bike . im trying to avoid pressing cam plate bearing as i don't have a press . thanks bud oh, also what would i use for tuning if i went with a bigger cams? i really dont feel like doing a $400 tuner session plus another $400 for a tune session .
BaggerBro I’m pretty sure feuling S&S and Harley have a cam plate that uses the stock cams with the newer style cam chain tensioners but there will still be pressing involved. If you want to go with a bigger cam anyway I would suggest upgrading cam plate and cams together I think you would be happier with performance. There are ways to get the cams out with the correct pressing tool and using a little bit of heat and tap them out but I think a press is the safest way. Good luck with project and ride safe brother!
If you ever use that removal tool and the fingers start to spread as ur installing the bearing like i did. Put 2 zipties over the fingers to keep them from spreading.
Dan d yeah I ended up returning mine it worked good but didn’t like the fingers spreading like that so I bought another tool where the installer and puller are separate I’ll post what I bought.
@@mechanicschannel1 What cam bearing tool(s) did you buy as a replacement? i just called Heartland (MBS Manufacturing) to ask some questions about their M8 cam bearing tool and the guy was clueless and spoke broken English and couldn't answer some basic questions. I knew their prices were to good to be true...
WheelSpin1320 it’s made by Marine tool products I think. I’ll find the name and post the info. It’s 2 separate tools a puller and installer but think it will work out better.
I looked it up it’s made by Precision marine tool on eBay rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F273768595737
@@mechanicschannel1 Cool. thanks! I was looking at a similar product for the M8. Have you used the new tool without any issues or complaints?
How's the fueling cam plate and pump working out for you?
Working Great my friend put over 15k on it still going strong!!
@@mechanicschannel1 awesome IV heard really good things and almost used it in my 2016 flss when I switch to the redshift 587 cam but people told me that the crank case scavenge port was to small and not seating on some of the fueling oil pumps, so I held off and used a baisley spring and plunger, which works but I think I'm gonna go fueling when I deck and port my heads in a month.
You could use a bit more volume we don't all have auxiliary speakers. Thanks
Yeah the heater going didn’t help it was my first video and try to make time to do this but next time I’ll try to keep it quieter
Did your friend ever add a Power Commander or other tuner to optimize the use of the Feuling 525 cams?
Hi Ed he had a power commander 3 on the bike already he just brought it to John at Dyno Solutions and retuned it’s and it runs Great! He put about 15k miles on It already and still going strong! If you do cams you’ll definitely have to get a tuner or a reflash on a Dyno. Thanks
Thanks for the reply. Getting ready to do the same upgrade with the Feuling 525 conversion cams and cam plate to change to hydraulic tensioners on a 2003 FI Road King, including the rocker shaft sleeves. Your video is great for showing all the details.
Another fast question now that I have the Cam plate and 525 Cam upgrade complete and starting to put a few miles on locally. Did you experience increase in mechanical noise from the cam chest after the upgrade? I didn't pay any particular attention before, but it seems to be a bit louder than I remember, and I wonder if the roller chains may be louder than the stock flat chains. I may just be paranoid. The 2003 88" twin cam does run well with the 525 cams and tune flashed from the DynoJet Power Vision tuner, which is what Feuling recommended when I contacted them . The Rockout sleeves did help a little on top end noise. Thanks for the previous feedback.
Ed Rico Hi Ed no didn’t notice any difference in noise did you make your you shimmed the cam gear with the crank gear correctly other then that it should be good and did you leave the mounting screws hand tight and spin the engine a couple of times then tighten the cam plate down in the correct sequence I’d have to hear the engine running to see how it sounds to give you any more info. You can probably send me a quick video of it and I can see what I think about it. Thanks
Mechanics Channel I took a couple of fast iPhone videos of my Road King as well as a stock 2014 TriGlide 103 and uploaded on my UA-cam page. I followed your instructions exactly as far as spinning the crank as part of lining up the cam plate and oil pump. I even went so far as to buy the Feuling dial indicator tool to check my crankshaft runout. Only thing I did different on my upgrade is that I reused the stock rocker shaft supports with the Rockout inserts. Thanks for your help
Thank you, well done.
Thanks for watching!
So that what 5k not including labor? Ranman
No not that much at all but call Feuling they will give you an exact number
Its down to which cam plate and pump. Harley stock plate with aftermarket blow off valve and stock pump, fueling plate with aftermarket blow off valve and fueling pump or S&S plate with adjustable valve and pump?
DobermansRock I would stay away from the stock plate and pump I would recommend Fueling or S&S if your going to replace cam plate and pump
I am split between Fueling and S&S. Someone has a video saying out of the box the Fueling valve should be replaced. S&S sounds pretty solid and their valve is adjustable. Not that that helps much. Can't adjust it when the bike is running.
DobermansRock I think you can’t go wrong with either one are you really going to adjust it yourself ? I think you’ll be fine the most important thing is assembly and centering the camp plate and pump
Its funny. Everyone talks about runout. If its going to destroy a S&S pump. Won't it destroy a Harley pump?
DobermansRock Yes it will but regardless of what pump plate you use you need to center it best as possible they say check run out so if it’s way off pull apart the lower end to correct it and if your running timing gears instead of a chain it’s even more crucial.
no assembly lube on the bearings?
I did put assembly lube on them prior to installing. I coated the cams and lifters were soaked in oil.
I'm doing the same Job, but I'm putting a dab of blue loctite on thread's. I know they say not to, but everyone I spoke to said yes do it.
I know they tell you not to use loctite on those threads. I think because the torque can change when it dries but not a 100% sure why I think you’ll be fine either way you go and I wouldn’t worry about that.
Great video
Why you upgrading the upgrade screaming eagle cam plate? Any issue with the SE can plate?
Luis Caruso He wanted to do a bigger cam and decided to go with the newer style cam plate that uses the newer style bearings he could have kept the cam plate and used conversion cams the screamin eagle cam plate would have been ok but I think the feuling is a bit better.
Common issue with the TC OEM chestplates is bad oil pressure release valve. This results in oil burning especially at hugh revs. The upgraded pump and chestplate also support higher hp applications.
Hello. Mr. You work wery well. I have one fat boy 2004/2005 yar. In Italy we have dream have meccanic egual you.
carmelo palmini Thank you Carmelo I appreciate that.
@@mechanicschannel1 if you want came in Italy i live in Roma. I whont onor you change pomp oil end catain. When you whont my mail: carmelo.palmini@libero.it
Yar meccanic for harley no wery well 🤔😔😔
Let's just keep fixing what Harley screws up.Harley is so fortunate to have such blind loyalty!
Dale Humphrey Hey Dale I agree a 100% with you about that. You would think Harley should be a little ahead of some of this stuff.
Best way to loosen exhaust flange nuts? Thank.
Al Engdahl I would soak them down with PB Blaster or aero kroil works good too worst case if the stud come out too you can install a new stud you can try a little heat also but be careful the head is aluminum
Was going straight for the heat first. Don’t want to break the studs. This is my only worry on this project. Any thoughts? Doing the same thing to my 07 Heritage. Thank for the quick reply.
Also would you use an impact or just wrench them. I’ve heard both ways?
Al Engdahl if you have a torch with a small tip to concentrate heat only on the nut that will work fine if you use an impact use a 3/8 drive and tap it in reverse just a bit and then go back right and bit back and forth until you see the nut moving personally I like to use a wrench and feel it to see if it’s breaking free or not being a automotive mechanic for 30 years I’ve had my share of stubborn bolts nuts etc heat does work the best but if your not use to using it you can make things worse if you heat up what your not supposed too using a torch with a tight tip so it concentrates all the heat directly on the nut only should work good for you.
Thanks! I’ve been looking for that answer for months. Awesome video.
Actually are you going to do inner chain and cams , seems like an excellent tool !!
Yep I did inner chain and tensioner in video Thanks
good instructional Video.. well done..
BeeFus6541 thank you glad I could help
Any links to specialty tools needed for this job was told need like 400$ in special tools
gary engman I can try to find a like but you can look for precision marine tools you can buy them on eBay and probably Amazon about a 100 bucks and I would buy a cam gear locking tool which is about 20 bucks if I find the link I’ll post it.
Thank you
Jim's tools H.D
You shouldn't assemble the oil pump before the plate is mounted.
The rear rocker assembly isnt that tight. I just did this
Dan d you mean as far as a tight fit to the frame ? Maybe some bikes have a little more room this one was pretty tight for some reason.
does this company make pullers for the M8's ?
BaggerBro I’m not sure if they do but look on Ebay and amazon there’s a few companies making these puller installers.
You can go directly to Heartlands website. They do more than just harley parts.
Great video man!
Jonathant Pheral Thank you 👍
That's a good deal film it and get bike sorted for free
Well since u don't need the s&s cam playe anymore....could donate it to a watcher in need ...lol
lol sorry sold it a long time ago
@@mechanicschannel1 did it work for u at all ...I have an 01 TC 88 electriglide and I need to do this tensioner kit.. want to do gears but if hydro works might try it
Appreciate the video. The back wheel is spinning while the bike is idling - the clutch adjustment is not correct.
Thats not always a correct statement
What year bike are you upgrading in the video? Thanks.
It was a 2006 Road King
Thanks, I have a 2005 Electra glide classic 20k miles.
It Guy yeah this would be the same upgrade that you would need if you want newer style cams
Thanks, that is exactly what I was wanting to hear.
07
The bushing in the rocker assemble didn't help the ticking in my bike. Harley sucks making a bike that the dam rockers tick, ggg what the hell!
Ringo Gingo I hear ya it’s annoying that they charge that much money and they tick and have other issues you need to go aftermarket to fix.
@@mechanicschannel1 .... Right , I don't think I'll ever buy a Harley again. The dealers are rip - offs !
I've had them try to rip me more than once. One dealer switched my rear spoke wheel for one that had rust while a new tire was installed.
Another dealer switched my 200.00 mirrors for scratched up ones. Once I heard a tinging noise in the engine so I thought best to let the dealer check it out.
They told me I needed a new 4000.00 engine , I rode my bike home and it was Harley's junkie ass cam chain tensioner.
All the problems Harley has is their own fault , so kiss my big ass Harley.
Ringo Gingo yeah that’s why I do all my own works the dealers charge way too much and works not as good as mine so keep using manuals researching repairs online and do your own work. Hope the bike runs good for you.
@@mechanicschannel1 ... Yes , I did the same job on my Road king as you did . I used the Andrew 26N cam with the Feuling plate.
I do all my own work on everything I own, Now !
Get ready to fix your Harley pressed together crankshaft once it has run out, crankshaft wobble. Replacing it with an S&S crank , Harley should be buying engines from S&S.
Even if you replace the cam plate with hydraulic tensioners they still wear and the inter tentionder is tons of work to just check it.
@@goodboyringo9716 Yeah I agree Harley should buy engines form S&S better built engine imo as well!
15,000 & it needs all that work!?!
What a fuck'n rip off...
BTW you did all that work and still put in chain cams. That was not a place to cut costs.
DobermansRock Yeah I told him but he was worried about runout and noise etc. I will be doing gears in mine when I pull it apart along with adjustable pushrods.
Worried about the noise. Heck the noise is the best part of gear drive cams, after the performance side of it.
I am running the S&S 625's in mine. Some guys ask if they should go that route or the 585. For a mild street bike the 585 is fine. I am running Edelbrock heads, Mikuni HSR 45 on a 95 with 10.5-1 comp. 625 was not going to be too much.
I have the Jim's Titanium adjustable in mine. Looking back. I would have taken 4 measurements and had solid rods cut and made from Titanium. That eliminates any worry of a rod coming apart.
Undecided what to do if the run out is beyond 0.004 Doing a bottom end is a lot of time and money.
Going with the Fueling plate and pump. Bought the baisley valve. Word is to use the fueling valve spring but use the Baisley valve. I have the Baisley #4 spring but undecided weather to use it or not.
DobermansRock that’s good info thanks for the reply 👍
Ditch the stock lifters. They come with oiling problems as well. The rockers are already rollers so I wouldn't put too much energy on them. The lifters from Harley can go. Actually the only Harley part in my valvetrain. Is the pushrod tubes. Stock tubes don't allow for adjustment of adjustable rods.
If you do go to a higher lift cam. You will have to grind out the rocker box plates. They won't clear the larger exhaust valve spring retainers. Which you will want with a higher lift cam.
Right now I am planning this next job as best I can. Nothing worse than breaking into your scoot. Just to find you have to stop on a part. If I can have everything built up ready to go It saves frustration.
I have to look but there is a better bearing for the inboard side of the cams. If I find it I will post it here. Its a T- 132 I think but let me look.
Correction. The rockers are not roller. For some reason I always thought mine were. I replaced them with Jims when I built the engine. Sorry man. I forgot my dementia pills today. Built the engine in 06.
Looking things over. I have lateral play on my rockers. .03 -.013 is the book. I will hit them tomorrow with a gauge. Too cold right now. Shim as needed.
Cam cover shows some wear from the cam gear pickup. Cam gear shows nada.
Going to pull the gears and plate tomorrow. Fingers crossed my run out is not out. If it is. I will have to shut down and order a aftermarket crank. I won't even mess with the Harley crank. Its not worth the time.
I have an 88 built in 99. Ultima makes a good crank from what Tatro recommends.
Stick with the 4" stroke. Move towards oversquare.
Sound dude. Sound.
soldotnastan thank you 👍
WTF !!! rebuild already.
Tom Young no not rebuilding it lol just cam upgrade bike runs great! Unfortunately some kid hit my friend and his wife in a parking lot but there ok and the bike barely got damaged so he’s still running it 👍
Should have shown the whole thing instead of just showing after you have taken stuff off I didn’t get a thing from this video
@@jeffcollins7611 buy a shop manual then you will learn much more.
I just cant stand a dude doing mechanics with gloves!! just me!!
Lol I’ve been wrenching for 30+ years and didn’t use gloves for the first 10 trust me it’s better with them but to each his own brother lol