Black Mormons Respond to Brigham Young’s Racism | Ep. 1916
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- Today we are joined by Dr. Darron Smith, Summur-Rayn Barrett, and Nate Byrd of Black Menaces to react to the first three episodes with Matt Harris. Their commentary unpacks Joseph Smith's complex racial attitudes, Brigham Young's implementation of the priesthood ban, and the painful legacy of racist doctrines. Their candid discussion highlights the urgent need for accountability within the Mormon church and grapples with the lasting impact of this racial discrimination.
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It really struck me recently when I realized the temple ban on blacks was actually an exaltation ban.
Is there still a temple ban on nonAnglos or just Black people? It's 2024 n all this just blows my mind.. many blessings.
@@lorinapetranova2607It was lifted in 1978, it was for those of African ancestry only
Very good point!
It was no more a ban that those born when there were no saving ordinances. All temple work for those who were banned can be done. And having been faithful members they will accept the work, and gain Exaltation.
@@andrewdrBoo. Your statement sounds like rationalization from an entitled or privileged tower. You’d feel differently if you were in their position. smh
I’m planning on applying to the “stopped believing at BYU” panel, and I’m a recent graduate. I’m so glad you provide these opportunities.
Please apply!!!
Can you please try to get black African Mormons on the podcast, they’re are the current focus of the church projected growth so it would be an interesting perspective
❤
Excellent idea and point!
Excellent excellent idea . Actual Africans .
BUT IT'S ALL a hoax!
@@lantanarh Please start a specific fund raiser to pay for Mormon Stories staff to spend a few weeks touring Mormon strongholds in several African countries. This would be eye opening for so many people connected to Mormon Culture.
You and your friends have further opened my eyes to the cult/religious abuse that these high control groups have over people who are just searching for “spiritual” guidance. I especially appreciate you including the racial aspect the Mormons chose to used on its members.
“Control”…that’s a “Big No Go”…I don’t care what anyone says about what has happen with and through the church…people have been racially stupid since the beginning of time…I don’t concentrate on “the people”, my focus is prayer, scriptures study and listening to what Father has to say to me, in directing my steps.🤷🏾♀️I’m a straight up rebel, no one controls me, my feelings or my actions…Again, People in general can and choose to be stupid…I joined LDS church because of the Gospel, the Gospel is my “controlling” force, not even Father controls me…we have Agency to do, be and follow as we may. Cult, controlling groups…yeah right…you may want to get to know more members from around the globe…I feel most members born and raised in Utah are stuck on stupid about race relations and who they believe they are or what others are not and I have no problems what so ever straightening those stupid curves perceptions that they’ve been living in their bubble. Get with me and that bubble will be popped.
❤️ we just have to accept reality and then support people and lift them up. Loosing your faith can be such a horror but also a blessing.
@@greg-op2jh I have never had “faith.” For me, it is the suspension of disbelief. I have always erred on the side of logic and reason. So far it has worked exceedingly well for me. But I have never judged a person for their faith and belief in their god, although I get it all of the time. My one question about religion and God is why are all of the gods male? Could it possibly be because of patriarchy?
The argument of whether the black race temple ban was doctrine or not is moot. It was TAUGHT as doctrine and only demoted to a policy. It was never disavowed or apologized for on a church-wide scale (as it was taught)
What a first class set of guests to have on your program. Hats off to all of you! 👏
This is an outstanding panel. I am so glad to know them, and I am pleased that they are willing to share their experiences in the church. Darron, Summur-Rayn, and Nate: My thanks and appreciation!
The church need to be open and honest.
21st century people need to wake up and study history, ancient mythology, science....and realize religion is bunk.
😂😂😂they would then cease to exist.
They WON'T!
The reasons West Africans accept the church is because of the corporate connections and wealth that the church offers African converts. It motivates them to stay in Africa and benefit from BYU Pathways without learning about the doctrine all that much. And there is motivation not to leave the church when one profits financially from employment.
It's the same in Utah and other places for many white members as well. Sure they are more versed in doctrine, but many who know the church is a lie, still stay. They have networked their careers through wealth within the church with prominent church figures. And there are also nepotism offspring wealth factors as well.
Brigham Young was a despicable human being…
Yep! 🎯🎯
Despicable well well that’s very kind. He was worst of the worst.
Yes, he was perfect to carry on after the scoundrel Joe Smith.
@@horstbendzulla6425And he had a lot of kids. He still has descendants. NFL great Steve Young is related to him
Great Panel. Thank goodness for the age of information. Great job Mormon Stories
I was forced to go to church by my parents. I am of Pacific Islander background, but i never understood how my father would put on a suit and act like an angel when at church but as soon as we got home my father would beat my mother, beat us kids up for very trivial things was very abusive and violent. And at a young age i would always think that going to church and learning about GOD was a good thing but this church was turning my father into a monster and if this church is teaching my father to be a good man, i never want to go to this church when i grow up. Thank GOD im not mormon anymore 🙏
Would it have made it any different if your father was an atheist? The church didn’t create the monster, he created himself.
Round of applause for each one of you. Thank you so much for your heart-felt thoughts and feelings 💙
The ironic thing about all of is that the first humans evolved and came out of Africa. The first humans were black. Later, the ones who went up north evolved into a lighter skin color.
Facts
"Whites" have always been a minority globally.
Exactly
Technically, Jesus was black. I find it HIGHLY deplorable that civil governments can outlaw slavery way before the "true church" can.
@@jacobmcneal3011 Technically that's an anachronism.
The concept of race wasn't invented until the 16th century.
Assuming he existed, Jesus as a 1st century Jew in Palestine would not resemble a "White" person. But that's irrelevant.
How people can believe in prophets and apostles who would ban black people from the temple for 140+ years, and then blame it on God, is something I can’t wrap my brain around. People will say that prophets in the Old Testament made mistakes, but this wasn’t just a ‘mistake.’ This shows 140+ years of racism and a lack of ability to be inspired by God at the highest level.
THIS!
@@robynward2819 …and the willingness of hundreds of general Authorities to perpetrate this racist dogma, and millions of laity to support it over 130+ years. It’s no coincidence that Warren Jeffs & Co. and racist Brethren are cut from the same bolt of Mormon ‘cloth’.
A silent God is really an inconvenience! I wish God could represent themselves.
Wow, excellent show and excellent panel. I must confess that the professor has won a place in my heart!
In 2017, when we attended our ward in CA someone came to the Halloween party in black face! My husband sent the bishop an email letting him know it was completely unacceptable and racist.
@@janicetanner wow 😳 Good for your husband!
The church’s racist history makes perfect sense when one understands Jesus would not abide these doctrines and policies through 10 presidencies and attendant general authorities and membership IF this was His “restored” church. Polygamy, polyandry, racism, and money laundering isn’t what Jesus would condone…which brings us to only one logical conclusion-fraud.
Wow, makes sense to me!
Racism and bigotry is disgusting. My heart breaks for these beautiful black people and that pain they must have gone through. But to then have the church take zero accountability for it. Just one day saying, oh we don't know why but it's different now. Now you are not a second class person. Is just mind boggling. Sending everyone so much love and healing. We need to share information about racism. How far we have come, and how far we still need to go. Instead of pretending like it never happened. ❤
Edit: when one of them said you can be racist and still be as kind and nice as can be. I almost spit my drink out.. that is so profound and true
Brigham Young was such a clearheaded thinker and such a sweetie. What a great guy! (Extreme sarcasm)
Imagine having your flagship university proudly named after him, still in 2024. Wild!
I was raised Presbyterian but am now a secular humanist. This stuff is mind boggling to me. It reminds me of Catholicism, Fundamental Christianity, the Southern Baptist Convention, and the Ku Klux Klan. My best childhood friend was black. I wasn't allowed to play with the Catholic girl. I've concluded religion is a manmade construct.
I am loving this recent deep dive, it's beautiful and fun to hear analysis from a black perspective. Thank you to the panelists for being willing to discuss and share.
This panel is perfection!
How so?
I wish everyone would watch this episode
This series is incredible! Through Dr. Harris’s book and the responses to it, I’m getting important historical context on the things that surprised me in Channel Achenbach’s Mormon Story, for example. Dr. Smith helpfully connects the narrative between the different emanations of white supremacy over the decades. What Summur-Rayn said emphasizing that this was a *temple and ordinance ban* not just a priesthood ban, is really important. What a violent thing to do, extending the ideas of superiority and status and enslavement into the afterlife. And Nate Byrd has such a gift with words, I laughed so hard when he was like “You can get further untangling like 50,000 yards of Christmas lights than Mormon apologetics.” That got me thinking about my observations of corporate apologetics and *how elite groups talk and arrive at an accepted picture of reality* in other settings, and my goodness, I should write about this.
I have to say- I’m 48. When I was dating, I, as a white woman, was attracted to any color of people. If they were beautiful, I would want to date them. My mom steered me away from that “because it would just be hard to have dark babies with a white mom.” I never thought of it until about 20 years ago about it being racism.
I have dated and been in serious relationships as well with black and Hispanic people. As well as white. I am so sorry that happened to you. Not that this is typical but my boyfriend who was black actually didn't want his parents to find out we were together. I used to laugh it off, but that is just a small taste of what a lot of these people have gone through. We have to make the change we want❤
@@greg-op2jhyes!!
I discovered this podcast last year in May and being born and raised in the Church, I had always had these doubts growing up while fully participating in what I now realize was a cultural/social habit. These kinks in the LDS Church and community need to be discussed out loud like this, so I appreciate this episode very much. I have not attended church in 20 years and I am perfectly ok with my life as it is without the Church. To be more inclusive about the blackface skits, etc., which is jarring, especially today: I grew up in Hawaii and local dark-skinned members used to do the opposite thing and dress as white people to mock them in skits (the way they dance, dress, behave badly overseas, etc). Polynesians do the same and even mock each other in costume, so it’s part of a broader ethnic-mocking sort of humor too.
People often forget many of our church’s had racism. In the Methodist church I grew up in one started by my great great grandfather and Harriett Tubman because at the time black people couldn’t go to white churches.
LOVE your content! Follow you religiously (no pun intended). You bring incredibly informative and interesting info.
Excellent material! I ABSOLUTELY LOVED the honesty and frankness of your panel, truly eye-opening. Thank you!!!
Thank you for this discussion. It has been a real eye-opener and lots to think about. Again, thank you to all.
Joseph Fielding Smith with jazz hands 🤣🤣🤣
It must be said that Africans may not really understand how Black Americans truly feel about racism in the Church. We are told that we shouted for joy when the priesthood ban was lifted.
Please tell me this book will be available on Audible; I really want to hear Matt Harris’ book!
Thank you Dr. Smith, Summur-Rayn, and Nate for taking on the emotional labor to talk through racism in the Mormon church system. It's a lot to carry. If there is a place I can send you three donations so you can go get a massage or a drink, please leave a comment. We appreciate you.
This church I have to say that it’s a church that I joined. When I joined I was very happy and the saints were so kind and welcoming. It was probably the first 6-8 months. And then someone came to speak with only the black sisters not all ladies and belittled them. That was when I felt so disappointed and hurt that I contacted my bishop. And I decided to just stop it all together. But during this time I still believed in that there was good there. So I visited another church in another state that was so different more city and diversity. You didn’t feel any kind of racism at all there. I was very proud of that. But I hadn’t heard of a curse of the skin ever or knew it was there. Not until 2023 first time. And to see the verse and see it I was hurt. I even contacted the missionary who baptized me and he explained, but I still didn’t feel satisfied.
But what hurt most is I was in an interracial marriage and my kids are all biracial. Is the verse that details the mixing of the seed. That bothered me and it’s 2024 and knowing that leaders of the church know this and not even remove those scriptures is to me enough. knowing if it’s not removed then it’s meant to be there and to hurt. I’m not comfortable with that and I can’t support that. I’m a dark skinned and I feel offended. But although, I feel this way I still have tried to go back and over look it. But I feel when i go it says Dummy across my head because I know how im looked at. If you can’t hold a genuine conversation with me.(10mis)You have to actually think of things to say tells me you don’t interact much with those of my ethnicity. And if so it’s with those who know how the church feels but over look it. Because your friendship means so much rather than facing the truth of the doctrine. It’s better to not discuss it or just ignore it’s there. And that’s not okay, I can’t invite people to church knowing that. I mean it’s hurtful to read it’s like joining a church based on what you taught but omitted what is actually there. It’s a deceit kinda thing. I was so impressed that someone actually wanted to teach me about God in this New Testament of Jesus Christ. But once I saw scriptures that was meant to be what God said I had to back off. Because God is 💛why would he speak so harshly about his creation? It’s definitely to me a man interpretation of scripture because during that time racism was strongly allowed. And this doesn’t apply to blacks who have a lighter skin remember it’s towards those with a dark skin. 😮😢I would hope that the church re-examine the Book of Mormon and remove those scriptures. It’s hard to defend what is there but if you made a big deal in having it removed. it will show that at least it’s history does want to be corrected with today’s current actions that they aren’t a racist church. 😮
Isn't it interesting the Priesthood Revelation happened on Brigham's Birthday
31:05 this part made me literally laugh out loud, LOVE this episode. So important.
I'm not Mormon just curious and find you very interesting sir .
This was absolutely amazing!
Darin, your work with psychedelics and harm reduction sounds so fascinating
Referring to it as a “priesthood ban” is really only the tip of the iceberg. This discussion is profound and much needed.
I’m a white woman who converted to the church as an adult in 1987. My then husband was black and also converted. He was denied the priesthood with no explanation given. Neither of us knew about the ban at the time but he found out about it few months later and let me know he didn’t want to be Mormon anymore. That caused a problem bc I already believed it was the “only true church” and so we got a divorce bc I wanted a priesthood holding husband. Several years went by and I also left the church after studying church history for almost 10 years. Yet, after alI the things I learned I somehow missed the temple ban part… wow… just when I thought I knew my history! 😮 I think the ban was/is terrible spiritual abuse.
Your 3 most brilliant guests
How are they the most brilliant guests?
@@sammiller4321this is your 2nd comment question that I have read to a comment. What is your issue?
@@dianasteffens4113 I have posted three posts on this podcast, Asking questions. Asking how are they the most ‘brilliant guest’ is not wrong. It sounds like me asking questions is causing you some discomfort. We should all be asking questions. We may not all come to the same conclusions obviously, but we should be asking, studying and searching the truth. The problem with this panel and Mormon stories as a whole it’s just intellectual inbreeding, same ideas being regurgitated. Neither sides of the aisle likes to be challenged But it needs to happen.
@@sammiller4321 NO, question is not causing me discomfort, and I agree we should question, but the way you questioned two of them in my opinion just sounded negative or rude. I understand it can sound differently to some like me. Just seemed it could be a better question to me. I also am aware my comment to you was somewhat negative, but that is how I took it.
I like that you're trying something new with the backgrounds! If I might input, I don't like that your background (John) is half positive and half negative space. The left half of your camera view feels so empty. I think there should be something there to help balance things out.
Agree
Agree. I actually like the warmth and texture of the bricks. I'd be open to other stuff too but don't super love the blue
Never mo here. LDS little kids calling a light skinned black woman a Lamanite - this stuff happens? omg wow 😳
I love Darron Smith . His passion bleeds through. He pulls no punches. I appreciate his connection between Church, GOP and MAGA.
His passion bleeding through doesn’t make it all right and all truth. And that goes for any of us. I’d be curious the details on how conservatism ‘gop’ is more harmful, than the liberal Democratic side?
@@sammiller4321 can you compare and contrast the two and explain your own perspective on the issue?
Great episode and panel! It’s one thing to hear these stories in a historical context and a completely other thing when sharing personal experiences surrounding the history.
The church is this way on purpose. I would love to hear perspectives from active black Mormon regarding these topics. Such as Sista’s in Zion.
Bring back the brick background 😊
The Lord made us all, we come in a rainbow of beautiful colours. Perfect every one no one is superior to any one else. You are loved guys. Julie UK ❤❤
Amazing episode. Thank you!
BYU should be renamed before it's forced on them. Have a question, If the LDS church is now a business, why are they still allowed to use the word church? Isn't that illegal? Btw I'm mixed race South African by birth, living in Australia. I shared previous podcasts on, Second class saints on my FB so my many family members still in South Africa, can know about it.
renaming the 4 universities would be a huge acknowledgment of how racist and bigoted he is. They would never admit it especially in that way. It still astounds me that there is a BYU-Hawaii in place that is a majority POC and where mixed marriages of many ethnicities are commonplace (at least 1/3).
I was being taught in LDS Sunday School in the early '90s that Black people were *still* cursed (as of the 90's)! Thanks to my public school instruction on MLK and racism, I immediately recognized the LDS teaching as racist. I don't understand how the LDS Church has gotten away with not even apologizing or taking accountability for instilling racism in generations of members.
Brilliant episode!!❤
My brother was in the Louisville Kentucky mission in 2000 and there were bishops that wouldn't let black people be baptized into their ward, members that bragged about n-hunting and n-knocking he had no idea what those even meant and when he found out he was so shocked that the members did that.. The KKK was still alive and well.. He said you hated the white members there. It was a very traumatic experience-so its still very recent and just not talked about. We can pretend that 1978 just stopped the racism in the church but it's so deep seeded . And I know the south is just different but the leaders knew. They still know what is going on.the whole "that's just how the times were" is total and complete bs
@@dianemelling5446 wow… that is horrific. I made friends with a guy from Georgia and he would tell me things about home and how segregation and racism were alive and well, and it was hard to wrap my head around and that was also in early 2000’s. But to hear that church members were behaving like that and felt that way… ugh. Such a gut punch, and feeling of betrayal with all of the apologetics. Despicable.
Reacting to 1:17:02... As a Kenyan who almost joined the LDS church, I initially found their theology quite sensible. However, my perspective changed when a student gave me the Book of Mormon. I read it thoroughly, but 2 Nephi 5:21 and Alma 9:14-15 made me reconsider. That's when I decided to stop the process.
You mentioned something about Kenyans that isn't accurate. My family descends from the Mau-Mau, a significant part of our history that you might want to Google.
I listen to this podcast as a part of my journey to recovery. I once believed, but now, I'm no longer religious.
How unfortunate. You reached Alma 9, but somehow skipped 2 Nephi 26:33.
If you read further you would have read Alma 55.
Good luck to you my African brother.
Gbenga from Nigeria!
Love the brick
Background and lighting 👌
Listening to it now. Great episode. So sorry I missed the episode live. The question I have is "Is it an apology if the church is compelled/forced/shamed to apologize? I would not have joined the church if I knew that the church was compelled/forced/shamed to remove the priesthood/temple ban. The church is doing the same now being forced/shamed to apologize. He/she/church that is compelled is a "slothful servant"
Excellent and long needed discussion....this is where honesty thrives...didnt brad wilcox say a stupid racist remark lately..its in them still...😢😢
@1:18 - you all made the point a bit earlier that Mormonism also reflects the culture at large- then and now. White supremacist ideology and actions have never gone away, but I think we are experiencing a big resurgence of people who not only espouse white supremacy but want to take action to restore it more fully. The church most likely reflects this trend as well.
I adore every one of these panelists!!! Beautiful humans, every one of them! 💜
Even taking everything you are saying as fact and truth. I still believe the church is the best organization on Earth for teaching families and children, principles of happiness and virtue.. in fact, you might agree with me.
Even at my most active I was bewildered when I'd come across a black member.
Why do some people say Joseph Smith wasn’t as bad as Brigham Young like it is a good thing? As a never mo who learns about being LDS mainly from Mormon Stories, I understand that is a ridiculously low bar.
What a fun and informative podcast! I hope to see everyone back soon
This panel opened my eyes in ways I could never have imagined. The church has the tools to make it right- as mentioned the atonement lays out the way to take ownership and have true remorse for this awful racism from the past that still effects the present. My mom recently told me that many of her friends didn't attend her wedding when she married a Hispanic convert bc they also saw it as her choosing a person of color to love instead of a white person which is just wild!! And honestly I always found it gross that native Americans and Hispanic people didn't also have this ban placed on them bc frankly we also don't have skin of whiteness
Great panel, really enjoyed! Love the blue background!
THIS IS JOHN AT HIS FINEST!!! GO JOHN!!
Nobody gets it, like John gets it! The man has walked the ROAD, and held the hands of thousands of others as they walk down that same road, but their own.
And when he allows himself to just speak the logic and truth that he has found by walking in those painful shoes, it's like he can PREEEEEACH!
You're a rock star, John!
Thank you for shining a light on this topic that is so misunderstood, because the church has spent so much time gaslighting everyone on it!!
(PS I prefer the BRICK house!!) 😁 I can't change.
I meant Eldridge Cleaver in 1968 and became his friend.. after he came back to the United States and I had a chance to talk to him 10 years later.. I told him about my Joseph Smith type experience that I had in 1968 a few months after he left. 2 years later I met a Mormon and joined the church. Cleaver was very interested and he had been thinking about the church. Also from the experiences that he had had. He ended up talking to Paul Dunn and Cleon skousen and after he was baptized he went with me to salt lake and met President Kimball in the in the elevator.. we had a sit down talk in the office of EzraTaft Benson.
He also spoke to the law school at BYU and was interviewed by The daily universe and kbyu TV.. I think it was the next year or two. He spoke in the Marriott center during the pioneer Days
You're enjoying a podcast when you don't notice the time or the time goes quickly.
This whole history lesson is insane, but this moment in particular made my jaw drop 🫨 1:08:04 saying Nate would be white in heaven? Jesus christ.
Oh shot, and Darron too! @1:51:40 SMDH
Summur says her dad Burgess is Utah's first black congressman. Is she unaware of Mia Love?
(And yes, you could argue Mia wasn't a congressMAN, but that's not the point.)
I also noticed that! Her dad is also a huge Trump supporter, so they are promoting racism whether they want to admit it or not.
@@PsstErika Serious Irony! disingenuous, hypocrite or gaslighting. She might experience cognitive dissonance.
How are they going to convince Egyptians on young earth creationism?
This might seem stupid but as a nevermo (and a Jew ftr) it took me ages to understand what the priesthood ban even was. I fully thought it was a ban on black people being priests in my understanding of the word, which is to say leaders (which obviously would’ve also been bad). The idea that it banned people from basically gaining anything in terms of the afterlife and eternity (which is not a thing in the Judaism I was raised with, but meant a lot to my catholic grandfather) is absolutely insane. It seems to me like Mormonism has always been so far behind in terms of seeing people as people and respecting them as such.
I grew up with a lesbian rabbi so I feel like my baseline could be skewed but I don’t think my conclusion is wrong. Feel free to correct me!
The new background looks good....but I'm not sure you should change it. That brick background was an immediate identifier that it was MSP. Likewise, if McDonalds came up with a "better" logo it probably wouldn't make sense to ditch the arches.
I like the brick background.
Ditch the brick! The brick looks like Joe Rogan and that's not a compliment. Love you guys and keep getting better 💕
Brick!
I prefer the brick. :)
Agreed!
@@lsun5322 BRICK FANS UNITE
Thank you❤ allways great to listen to🎉
“Moral relativism“ is so frustrating to me. Giving people of the past a pass because it was a “different time” keeps us stuck.
So here is something I was thinking about. A man obtains the priesthood by the laying on of hands if I am correct. So, when someone is excommunicated or asks for his name to be stricken from the church records, how is it that they lose their priesthood? Do they perform an unlaying of the hands? How does one lose their priesthood? Simply by decree? I find it highly unlikely that an individual loses something they were given?
I have been impatiently waiting for this video since Saturday! 😂 finally yay!!🎉🎉
Also, go back to BRICK please! God Bless America and all of the human beings on Earth, extra prayer for the ones who have, are, or will endure a faith crisis. 🙏🇺🇸
Thanks!
How does the Black only lds congregation sub group fit in all this (Genesis) I think they have their own version of general conf mtg? I’ve only heard of them and would like to know how they justify or feel being made separately to identify? Maybe I’m asking the wrong question. Please advise…
How do you deconstruct a religion when you're still in it? That's so wild to me. My sister and brother-in-law have a very similar relationship. She's still in. He's out. They are able to make it work
Great episode. So much knowledge and insight. I learned a lot about the different stories and lies about race and about white supremacist cover-ups. I don’t think the Mormon church is any better or worse than other white supremacist religious sects or organizations. But this thorough examination of all the different places leadership pulls its lies from provides several perspectives from which to view white supremacy. in other organizations as well.
I honestly relate to a lot of racial oppression as person of Polynesian descent and ex member of the lds church. I feel as if members don’t want to remember when Polynesians came to Utah they were oppressed and went through racial injustice from the members and the church. The stories I have heard from my elders are horrific, but I feel as if members do a good job “not remembering” or disregarding their actions and the oppression of the beliefs itself.
I grew up in the 90s in Pocatello ID and was taught that interracial marriage was not ok. We had an interracial couple move into our ward I was 12 and I was so confused. Makes me sad to know how that couple felt in our ward. Ugh
I am white, nevermo, 60 years old from Great Lakes State. At very young age my mom taught me there was nothing wrong with interracial marriage. I am ashamed to say I was against LBGTQ adopting/having children because of how it would affect the children until i heard it compared to interracial couples having children. Totally woke me up . People can change their beliefs.
I would be curious what these three individuals really think of Martin Luther King, white supremacy, social justice, LGBTQ rights. Communism, socialism. The civil rights movement. Government welfare, liberalism, democrat, Racism.. etc. from what I can gather their proponents.But we have to ask ourselves does living and supporting these ideas actually harm or help society?
I feel like a lot of people also engage in what I'll call 'pastism'... they force the morals, priorities, etc. of the past on the present.
1:33:55 1:34:22
Brick
Imitation of Life, Sandra Dee Lana Turner. That’s the movie. There was a guy recently pretending to be black. He had a fake black face on social media. It was on RFM Mormon Discussions. Really good story by RFM.
I’d be curious to hear how Summer is able to reconcile the fact that her white husband still believes the church and their prophets to be true after everything with its racist past they’ve talked about.
I'd be curious to know how summer experiences her husbands white privilege.
Great discussion! 💜
We laugh so we don't cry.
I need to get me an ahnk necklace.
I know of black face skits that were still being performed in LDS California ward talent shows as recently as the 1980-1990’s
I wouldn’t perform a black face skit, but the problem is people act like it’s completely racist. But reverse the role, would you think it’s wrong if Black people did a white face skits? Which is a real thing. The hypocrisy is crazy
@@sammiller4321 I am not an expert on this topic by any means, so take my opinion for what you will, but I think it’s more to do with how POC are characterized during the performance.
The black face performances I’m aware of were poking fun in derogatory ways at black culture and POC in ways that were characterized as less affluent and intelligent.
It wasn’t flattering or complimentary to POC, but rather openly mocking…
Not sure how white face skits would portray Caucasian’s, and maybe that’s bad too, but because I haven’t been exposed to it, I can’t speak to that from an educated place.
The fact is that racism towards minorities is very real and documented, and things like “black face” only add to hurtful stereotypes and support harmful attitudes towards POC...
If that can be said about “white face”, then I would argue, that would be inappropriate behavior too and we can ALL do better.
More love, less hate- my personal motto and goal at the end of the day, and a commitment to try not to do harm willingly to anyone, which would make “black face” an obvious no for me and the behavior I will support around me.
@@sammiller4321 I am not an expert on this topic by any means, so take my opinion for what you will, but I think it’s more to do with how POC are characterized during the performance.
The black face performances I’m aware of were poking fun in derogatory ways at black culture and POC in ways that were characterized as less affluent and intelligent.
It wasn’t flattering or complimentary to POC, but rather openly mocking…
Not sure how white face skits would portray Caucasian’s, and maybe that’s bad too, but because I haven’t been exposed to it, I can’t speak to that from an educated place.
The fact is that racism towards minorities is very real and documented, and things like “black face” only add to hurtful stereotypes and support harmful attitudes towards POC...
If that can be said about “white face”, then I would argue, that would be inappropriate behavior too and we can ALL do better.
More love, less hate- my personal motto and goal at the end of the day, and a commitment to try not to do harm willingly to anyone, which would make “black face” an obvious no for me and the behavior I will support around me.
John, did you just say “homie” to the gentleman in the hat?? 🤩
🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️ is what I meant
Fair.