I'm usually against any deviation from source materials whatsoever but Gurney vs. Rabban NEEDS to happen. It would also be an excellent contrast between Yueh's sneaky and underhanded attempt to harm the Harkonnens all by himself (which saw Yueh himself dying) and Gurney's more face-to-face (and more honourable) revenge which took a long time to realise but ultimately ends in success and wouldn't have been possible if he hadn't joined and stayed loyal to the Atreides forces back in the day. Loyalty and patience pays off is all I'm saying.
All movies are an adaptation. The Hunger Games I am sure differs from the source material (never read the books personally) but in the first two movies, it works. I told my wife that the end was probably better in the books, but a cinematic experience is different from reading a book. The Lord of the Rings trilogy differed in a lot of ways from the book, Jurassic Park is another example. I am so excited for this movie to come out.
First of all, no. Gurney Halleck vs. Glossu Rabban doesn't "need" to happen. Second, trying to contrast Gurney and Dr. Yueh in the way you proposed is an absolutely terrible and nonsensical concept. It involves a complete misunderstanding of Yueh's character and motivation. Dr. Yueh didn't betray the Atreides in order to carry out some sneaky, underhanded revenge scheme against the Harkonnens. The Harkonnens had broken Yueh's conditioning and manipulated him. He betrayed the Atreides because he was trying to save his wife. Yueh gave the Duke the false tooth as a way of trying to make amends with the Duke, by giving him the means to not only avoid being tortured by the Harkonnens, but also the opportunity to avenge himself (and to a lesser degree, Yueh) by taking the Baron's life with his own. Furthermore, more than anyone else, Yueh was the one responsible for Jessica and Paul escaping the Harkonnens successfully. He made sure they had stillsuits, a stilltent, thumpers, and other necessary gear. And he made sure that the ducal signet ring, the proof of Paul's identity and legitimate claim as duke, and head of House Atreides. Dr. Yueh is arguably the second most tragic character in the book, after Duke Leto. Another point: is it even established in the movie that Halleck has a personal history with Glossu Rabban? Because if not, it makes even less sense that it needs to happen. Can Gurney kill the Beast in the movie? Sure, why not? Should he? Maybe. I don't think so. I personally like the idea of him being killed and beheaded offscreen by the Fremen he's persecuted for years and of whom he's killed countless (they probably have more claim than Gurney). Either way, if it does happen, it won't provide contrast with what Yueh did. It will simply be one fairly minor character taking revenge on another fairly minor character.
My headcanon is that these are the same characters doomed to a cycle of reincarnation, the role of aggressor and victim interchangeable, until they can settle their feud one on one.
Thank you for this well explained and thought out video! I feel that Gurney's proposed duel with Rabban can be a powerful conclusion to his personal vengance arc if written with skillful emotional weight leading up to the showdown. When Feyd is to duel with Paul, it would be natural for Gurney to take Paul's place as his champion: At this point Paul is the head of the Atriates Family and Champion of the Freman peoples. The potential of losing him in a duel may feel like an unnesscary risk, thus prompting Gurney to speak up. However, Paul understands the layered historic importance of this moment better then his friend & mentor - he alone must face Feyd in mortal combat.
I honestly think this fight was bound to happen and needs to happen since so much of Gurney’s story as a whole is about getting revenge on the Harkonnen’s who ultimately left lasting scars both mental and physical upon him and his loved ones!
I think it would be cathartic for the audience. We could always use a little more of the good guys whooping the bad guys. Modern "heroes" are just not that well written anymore.
I think Halleck’s fight with Rabban will quite poetic given his backstory. It would be cool to Halleck defeat the Beast, and then let the Fremen take Rabban’s head. It would closure for both the Fremen and Gurney.
A endfight between Beast and Gurney would be logical, I personally likes the peoples end in the miniseries. That seemed fitting. The story of Gurney however is told. Though many criticize the backgroundstories written by Brian and Kevin, they fill in a lot of gaps from the original Dune trilogy, especially about the 2 great warriors of house Ateeides, Gurney and Duncan. Not sure however where to find them , but they are there and worth reading.
I’m perfectly happy with the fight between Gurney and Rabban. I don’t think that it hurts his character growth at all and does not detract from what Herbert wrote. Because Paul had said “ that he’s already had his day against them”. In the fight for Aeeakeen, he killed many, many Harkonnen. To me, that’s no different a form of retribution than fighting and killing Rabban directly.
But harkonnen soldiers are very poor and badly treated, they’re treated like disposable waste. So the satisfaction is not the same, because the soldiers are just enemies and not responsible for the suffering the way Beast is.
Even though this is vague in the book, I think it could add to the story, and lines up with Paul telling him something to the effect of “You’ve had your day” when he wants to take out Feyd Rautha himself. I don’t think it detracts too much from his arc; he could achieve some closure by ending Rabban and then going on to repair and heal Giedi Prime, which I think was alluded to be his homeworld. For me, it works.
I think, if they do give us a Gurney vs Rabban fight. They can include the scene in the end where Gurney volunteers himself to fight against Feyd. But instead of him doing it out of a desire for revenge, he volunteers out of loyalty to his 'king' and friend. Then you can have Paul turn to him, and say something along the lines of "I must win my own battles if I wish to lead. Just as you taught me brother." We can have two very powerful moments for both characters without deviating to far from the source material.
I don't think a confrontation between Rabban and Gurney would detract at all. As you've pointed out, his death in the novels was almost anticlimax, and while his deaths in the Lynch film and the SciFi miniseries were somewhat less so, they still lacked the proper impact. I have a feeling that everything that happens to Gurney (and everyone except Paul, maybe) post the Harkonnen defeat is going to be left largely untold in the Villeneuve films.
Well done focus on this aspect of the Gurney Halleck story. I, for one, would really like to see a showdown and battle between Gurney Halleck and Beast Rabban. It needs to happen.
Honestly, I like Herbert's theme of "Vengeance denied" much more than another moment of cliche "Come-uppance" with no further lessons to learn from it. Being denied this vengeance allows you to ask the question: How do you move on without satisfaction nor a chance to try again? It's a much harder path to walk and a natural fit for giving Paul a way to deny Gurney something meaningfull.
Perhaps Gurney doesn't get to kill him. Maybe he's robbed of it, and his rage for vengeance only grows, allowing things to remain the same in the duel scene.
I always assumed Rabban was killed by 'just another soldier' in 'just another skirmish'. The most notorious or most heroic of men can meet the most insignificant of fates in war.
The Gurney vs Rabban fight would be surely the coolest death scene for Rabban. I think he also would be more threatening character with this fight instead of some offscreen death scene.
I think a final one on one fight to the death between Halleck and Rabban might diminish the impact of the fight between Paul and Feyd-Rautha. An unsatisfying killing of Rabban by Halleck might be more interesting, but difficult to pull off without a lot of exposition. It will be interesting to see how Rabban's death is handled in the movie.
It detracts, although a show down would be satisfying, it's a small thing compared to what he dose in the books, every trace of hakonan influance is wiped away from their home world by Gurney, a former slave, a victim of their brutality has lordship of their world and exponges every last trace of them from it.
It's another beautiful day, a Nerd Cookies Dune video! I am loving thr 40k material and the Dune videos as well. I would say honestly that giving Gurney a shot at Raban is not terrible or damaging to the overall story or universe. You are totally right, though. Gurney was in the great hall when Paul fought Feyd, and I think you have a massive point about the diminishing the Nuances. It was the same complaint I had with Keynes being a woman rather than Chanis Father. The story was written that both Paul and Chani lost their Father's, who they deeply loved, as well as a son to the Harkonen. It was never about race or disliking women or any of thr usual gaslighting attacks some people like to throw around to dissuade someone from not agreeing with a change like this, the actress who they chose for Keynes was good and im sure she is a fine person and all that, but it was about something that I saw as a deep and dark connection between Paul and Chani that was diminished by making Liet Keynes a woman rather than Chanis father. I agree with the idea that letting Gurney kill Raban does diminish his character arc even if it does not in any way destroy the movie or anything like that.
I just rewatched the movie. I’m not sure I prefer this version more than the original, but it is a well made and well acted movie. I also think Sean Young played a great Chani. Looking forward to part 2. Thanks for keeping the Dune Universe alive Elaine.
The subtleties of Hallecks transformational arc through the terraforming of Geidi Prime would be difficult to express in a feature film length narrative (especially given that Halleck is a secondary character and so cannot dominate film time.) Thus the Halleck/Raban contest provides a meaningful expression of part of Halleck's life arc in a concise film scene. Such a contest is not inconsistent with his going on to perform the terraforming over the following decades. At the same time, the contest with Raban occurs in the context of the retaking of Dune by the Atreides for whom Halleck is both a key lieutenant and along with Duncan Idaho, the trainer of Atreides warriors (as well as Paul himself). This makes him a worthy combatant. So I'm cool with the director's choice.
I need to rewatch part 1. I don’t recall how much Gurney’s time with the Harkonnen was brought up. I’ll most likely judge it based on how it fits in with the rest of the movie. I can forgive some amount of adaptation if it fits.
Thematically it makes sense from a viewer/reader satisfaction perspective. Often times adjustments have to be made to account for viewers getting a satisfying conclusion to dramatic buildups. And this would be a good way to handle that while also not straying much (if at all) from inferences in the original source material. It just... works, on multiple levels for many reasons.
As much as I would like to see Gurney kill the Beast, I would be happy with Gurney just happening upon his dead body, it would fit what comes later when Paul refuses to let him fight Feyd. Great video!
I believe it makes sense for a duel to occur as he would wish to avenge the death the duke Leto and his sister as well as for his own treatment as a slave. Would be all set up and no pay off otherwise I think
Maybe they can show Gurney killing Rabban, then he realizes it brought him no peace. Then later when he begs Paul to represent him against Feyd-Rautha, instead of ascribing a vengeful motive to kill Harkonens, just have him say something like "My lord, I am no longer desiring to kill Harkonens. Revenge brought me no peace, and this is my way of protecting you because you stand for the new order of peace justice etc." Then Paul declines him gracefully.
I for one have enjoyed the many interpretations of Dune; while a final confrontation between Guerney Halleck and Beast Rabban isn't explicitly inferred it does; however, at some zest to the story. Rabban while a minor character in the Dune saga; does show one of many developments to the story as outline in Dune. The fact that Rabban is eventually killed during the final battle of Arrakine, it's alluded to but only suggested. The SciFi Channels depiction of Rabban's beheading was a satisfying end to a character who was so hated that everyone Fremen and not, rejoiced! It just goes to show; in the end, that what the real storyline that was important is about loyalty and honor. Loyalty to the Atreides set of moral standards; and while Paul eventually embraces his Fremen customs, he's still an Atreides by birth and still subject to the rules as set forth by his father.
Gurney could well kill beast raban on screen, and learn that it wasn't what he needed to find peace. It is learning that lesson that may lead him to his future restoration of Gedi Prime.
After finding out how his sister died in the Dune prequel trilogy, it would be great to see Gurney get his revenge by killing Rabban personally. Dude totally has it coming.
Again I say thank you Elaine. I nvr read the books and just by happenstance saw the newer Dune movie. But the fact that you are SO very much the emodiment of in depth analysis and your amazingly talented attention to detail and somehow still able to walk through the humble realm of relaying these characters and situations that have been the most profound reasoning behind my ever growing obsession with any and all of the subject matter is ultimately something that I cannot even pretend to imagine of having a dream about remotely putting into words. Girlfriend let me tell you that you are the MASTER of Dune lore and I have been made privy to this world and now venture into your other creative genius in the other sci-fi worlds that I also apologize im very much ignorant of. I'm not a spiritual man or religious and introverted with no friends or family...omg scratch that. I have a beautiful beastfriend/cat/roommate named Tosh who straight up will bestow her rightful vengeance if'n I say some bullshit like that so please excuse my lapse in my misfiring synapses and let's not let this reach her very much perceptive ears..and switchblade equipped paws. Nonetheless tho ma'am if you ever EVER even forget for a plank moment please don't have another one pass cuz you my leige are the epitome of greatness and limitless mature mental fortitude. And not to sound creepy but I am certain that I an not the only bi-ped smitten by your intellectual prowess and I know that I usually have a nihilistic cloud over my head but if there is indeed a ray of sunshine in my life when I pick-up my phone to see my recommendations its you. So from the very much deep and sometimes dark depths of wtfever this is I am ...I an forever grateful and appreciative for your existence and easily way past that for the bonus that you chose to share that awesomeness you call your personality with us. I don't know why or what i did to deserve it. And quite selfishly I don't even care anymore but I will always forever be in dept and thank the cosmos for Tosh and for you. That being said PLEASE PLEASE stay safe and vigilant. People can be nefarious and want to hurt innocent people and I've been a bodyguard for 14 years before I got the kidney C and nothing hurts more than not being able to protect those I feel our society needs. So for all of us. For you. For your loved ones. Take care of yourself and head on A swivel kiddo. And again. Although you couldn't see it I'd just like to take a knee and express my gratitude. I know it's not easy but gurl you have a way of doing the damn thing like this is your sole purpose for being sent to this lil blue marble. Keep going and remember you have a legion of nerds who don't consume nothing of value if it ain't fresh baked cookies!
If I had a nickel for every cinematic blood feud between Josh Brolin and Dave Bautista characters, I’d have two nickels. It’s not a lot, but it’s weird that it’s happened twice.
I think its a really cool idea and one of the things that has been lacking in the books. I mean hundreds of pages are spend on visions, premonitions and philosophy but when actual stuff happens its over in a sentence or 2.
One of the problems with adapting Dune is that Frank did things intentionally and meticulously. He could have just as easily included some reference to Gurney killing Rabban, even if it wasn't directly shown, but he didn't. There's a reason Stilgar is the one to say that Rabban is dead, and personally I always liked the miniseries scene of him being torn to pieces by the people he'd brutally oppressed. I also liked that they were nameless Arrakeen folk, taking away the dignity of some grand confrontation. There's a lot of disappointment in the Dune series - it's partly a deconstruction of heroic tropes, after all - and Gurney's anger over not having his chance to kill a Harkonnen is a great part of the climax, especially right after Thufir's suicide. As for the Lynch version - I liked the ambiguity of it (the communicator telling the Baron that "The Emperor's had Rabban seized" followed by his head in a bucket, and that's it), but I could never get past the head model not looking much like Paul Smith to me. It looked real enough, just not like him.
5:06, a Duel between Gurney and The Beast would be as welcome as the Elves arriving at Helm's Deep during The Two Towers movie. Never mentioned in the Source Books, but welcomed by the Patrons of the Source Material. It'd be an extremely welcome addition :) Give Gurney Rabban .When Feyd Rautha makes his challenge to Paul, Paul looks at Gurney and says "This ones mine Gurney" Gurney nods in agreement and we can see that Gurney is still wounded from the duel with Rabban. Perhaps Gurney defeats Rabban, but leaves him alive and they take him as a prisoner thus showing Gurney's "growth"
Gurney could deal with and kill Rabban during the battle for the film , witnessed by Stilgar or other freemen who report it to the Naib , who then states later that Rabban is dead as per book :)
I don't mind this departure from the story too much as, to be honest, us readers would have liked to have had it go that way. But Gurney should remember one thing when he fights Raban. The Harkonens are BRUUUUUUUUTAL.
I'm actually looking forward to the confrontation between Gurney and Rabban. I feel like with the tone of the movies, this will fit in nicely. We can use our imagination and assume that after this battle, Gurney finally finds peace and still works hard to bring peace.
most/very likely outcome in Dune book if extra chapter was written would be revenge on Raban by Gurney due to historic trespasses , then zen peace transformation after the fact
It's important to remember that Dune is the story of Paul Atreides. While details like Gurney's hatred of House Harkonnen are important, in a movie format it's too easy to bog down the story with minutiae. Denis has to chose what aspects of the book he will adapt very carefully so as to not harm the movie's continuity. There are numerous fights in Dune, the most important of which is at the end of the novel, between Paul and Feyd, for no less a prize than leadership of the known universe.
Im all for artistic license when it comes to enhancing the viewers experience.......this fight is going to be EPIC but its so difficult to manage my expectations. Time will tell 🙂
No, I don't want Gurney to be the one to kill the Beast Rabban. I think it would be more fitting for Gurney and Stilgar to be told that Rabban and his detachment were killed. That it happened during the opening phase of the attack on Arrakian. I think this fits more with the book's ending, and with Frank Herbert vision.
The timing for this showdown has to be astute, I would perhaps set it soon after the kanly duel between Paul and Feyd-Rautha, and to show Gurney dissatisfied with his vengeance...
Do you know if Duncan will be coming back in the movies? I’m not overly familiar with the books and when he is brought back, I just know he does come back at some point. Great video!
I think the trailer is ambiguous as to whom Rabban is addressing. It could be Paul. The trailer does cut to Gurney after that shot of Rabban, but I think it may be a leap to assume they will show Gurney and Rabban engaged. It would likely detract from the fight between Paul and Feyd, to my mind.
I'm always in favor of something being added to the source material that feels like a natural part of the story, even if it was not originally part of the book. This fight is one of those things that, if anything, I felt was missing from the book as it just seems like a natural clash these two would have to bring some closure to both character arcs.
As paul steps up too fight Feyd he hears loud footsteps moving towards him this is when he looks up and sees none other than Gunery Halleck as paul is about too speak Gunery speaks i will stand for House Atreidas in the background as the Beast pushea through guards he laughs out loud he finally shouts i will fight for house Harkonnen if this somehow happens which i think it will or somehow different it will be the way it should happen
While a Duel between the Gurney 🆚 The Beast would make interesting cinema it detracts from both the original story and Paul's journey just a bit to much. Paul ultimately battles Feyd completes the circle. I also thought the early duel with Jamis was rushed in part one and took away from his "Jamis taught me when you kill you pay for it" made No Sense. In the film they had only just met like minutes, suddenly he taking his water meant something. Made No sense at all but that is Hollywood for you Not Making Sense.
In the movie they made Rabban so strong I am not sure anyone who defeated him would have much left to fight on. The off scrern death serms a better option.
FH SHOULD have written a confrontation between Gurney and Rabban. The only negative is it might have reduced the intensity of the duel between Paul and Feyd. However, I think the final fight at the end of Dune should have been the fight between Gurney and Rabban, which would have been far more appropriate. Given the anticlimactic death of the Baron Harkonnen, a less intense duel would have worked fine, and thus a climactic fight between Rabban and Gurney, to symbolize the final eradication of the House Harkonnen would have worked. And worked well. 🫡🫡 One possibility just occurred to me. Given the abilities of the film medium, running both the duel between Paul and Feyd, and a simultaneous show of the fight between Gurney and Rabban could be possible. Paul salutes Feyd, "May thy knife chip and shatter!", and we cut to Gurney hissing "For my little sister!" and both fights start. At the penultimate climax, when Feyd's poisoned needle gets stuck, immobilizing him, Gurney foils Rabban's treacherous hidden knife, and both Paul and Gurney strike home, killing their enemy, master and student. 😮😮😮
I can imagine a fight what would be similar to the simultaneous fight scene of Thorin vs Azog and Legolas vs Bolg in The Battle of the Five Armies. It worked and it looked cool.
Many great tyrants are killed by unknown hands. Changing the story to get Gurney and Ruban fight is more proof that this series should have been a trilogy. The attempt to tie up loose ends and take plot threads to satisfactory conclusions can not be done in two 3 hour movies. Even the audio book that was acted out, takes a 50 hour marathon to get in every line. I'm not saying to follow the book completely, but try not to change what is not needed to be changed, and push to edtend the series into a needed additional movie so a proper story can be told.
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🍪 Ms Cookie, it could be me, but your sound quality seems too have reduced ❓( But not as bad as Nolan )
"Ms Cookie" Love it. 😂
I'm usually against any deviation from source materials whatsoever but Gurney vs. Rabban NEEDS to happen. It would also be an excellent contrast between Yueh's sneaky and underhanded attempt to harm the Harkonnens all by himself (which saw Yueh himself dying) and Gurney's more face-to-face (and more honourable) revenge which took a long time to realise but ultimately ends in success and wouldn't have been possible if he hadn't joined and stayed loyal to the Atreides forces back in the day. Loyalty and patience pays off is all I'm saying.
All movies are an adaptation. The Hunger Games I am sure differs from the source material (never read the books personally) but in the first two movies, it works. I told my wife that the end was probably better in the books, but a cinematic experience is different from reading a book. The Lord of the Rings trilogy differed in a lot of ways from the book, Jurassic Park is another example. I am so excited for this movie to come out.
First of all, no. Gurney Halleck vs. Glossu Rabban doesn't "need" to happen.
Second, trying to contrast Gurney and Dr. Yueh in the way you proposed is an absolutely terrible and nonsensical concept. It involves a complete misunderstanding of Yueh's character and motivation. Dr. Yueh didn't betray the Atreides in order to carry out some sneaky, underhanded revenge scheme against the Harkonnens. The Harkonnens had broken Yueh's conditioning and manipulated him. He betrayed the Atreides because he was trying to save his wife. Yueh gave the Duke the false tooth as a way of trying to make amends with the Duke, by giving him the means to not only avoid being tortured by the Harkonnens, but also the opportunity to avenge himself (and to a lesser degree, Yueh) by taking the Baron's life with his own. Furthermore, more than anyone else, Yueh was the one responsible for Jessica and Paul escaping the Harkonnens successfully. He made sure they had stillsuits, a stilltent, thumpers, and other necessary gear. And he made sure that the ducal signet ring, the proof of Paul's identity and legitimate claim as duke, and head of House Atreides.
Dr. Yueh is arguably the second most tragic character in the book, after Duke Leto.
Another point: is it even established in the movie that Halleck has a personal history with Glossu Rabban? Because if not, it makes even less sense that it needs to happen.
Can Gurney kill the Beast in the movie? Sure, why not? Should he? Maybe. I don't think so. I personally like the idea of him being killed and beheaded offscreen by the Fremen he's persecuted for years and of whom he's killed countless (they probably have more claim than Gurney). Either way, if it does happen, it won't provide contrast with what Yueh did. It will simply be one fairly minor character taking revenge on another fairly minor character.
Yeah, right, Frank Herbert got it wrong ... oh no, wait!
@@bufordhighwater9872 None of that matters! We just wanna see Drax finally have his face-to-face with Thanos
I'm just stoked that Thanos and Drax get their fight.
My headcanon is that these are the same characters doomed to a cycle of reincarnation, the role of aggressor and victim interchangeable, until they can settle their feud one on one.
A final duel between Gurney Halleck and Glossu Rabban would be another ingenious addition and a change for the better.
It prolly could happen considering rabans line ''looks whos back from the dead'' in #2 trailler of part 2 .
@@ΜΟΛΩΝΛΑΒΕ-τ7εdefinitely revenge for the fall of Atreides
@@jra.4315 and his family since his sister murdered from raban.
Thank you for this well explained and thought out video!
I feel that Gurney's proposed duel with Rabban can be a powerful conclusion to his personal vengance arc if written with skillful emotional weight leading up to the showdown.
When Feyd is to duel with Paul, it would be natural for Gurney to take Paul's place as his champion: At this point Paul is the head of the Atriates Family and Champion of the Freman peoples. The potential of losing him in a duel may feel like an unnesscary risk, thus prompting Gurney to speak up.
However, Paul understands the layered historic importance of this moment better then his friend & mentor - he alone must face Feyd in mortal combat.
I honestly think this fight was bound to happen and needs to happen since so much of Gurney’s story as a whole is about getting revenge on the Harkonnen’s who ultimately left lasting scars both mental and physical upon him and his loved ones!
I think it would be cathartic for the audience. We could always use a little more of the good guys whooping the bad guys. Modern "heroes" are just not that well written anymore.
Exactly, Raban's end can't just be a footnote, this needs to happen! Can't wait to see it!
I think Halleck’s fight with Rabban will quite poetic given his backstory. It would be cool to Halleck defeat the Beast, and then let the Fremen take Rabban’s head. It would closure for both the Fremen and Gurney.
aged like fine wine. I can confidently say the fight between Gurney and Rabban was really well done.
A endfight between Beast and Gurney would be logical, I personally likes the peoples end in the miniseries. That seemed fitting. The story of Gurney however is told. Though many criticize the backgroundstories written by Brian and Kevin, they fill in a lot of gaps from the original Dune trilogy, especially about the 2 great warriors of house Ateeides, Gurney and Duncan. Not sure however where to find them , but they are there and worth reading.
I’m perfectly happy with the fight between Gurney and Rabban. I don’t think that it hurts his character growth at all and does not detract from what Herbert wrote. Because Paul had said “ that he’s already had his day against them”. In the fight for Aeeakeen, he killed many, many Harkonnen. To me, that’s no different a form of retribution than fighting and killing Rabban directly.
But harkonnen soldiers are very poor and badly treated, they’re treated like disposable waste. So the satisfaction is not the same, because the soldiers are just enemies and not responsible for the suffering the way Beast is.
@@sharon-bp9pk Good point.
Thanos vs Drax! The showdown we’ve all been waiting for!!!
I think Gurney can kill Rabban and still walk the path of peace later…his vengeance spent, his sister’s death avenged.
Even though this is vague in the book, I think it could add to the story, and lines up with Paul telling him something to the effect of “You’ve had your day” when he wants to take out Feyd Rautha himself. I don’t think it detracts too much from his arc; he could achieve some closure by ending Rabban and then going on to repair and heal Giedi Prime, which I think was alluded to be his homeworld. For me, it works.
I think, if they do give us a Gurney vs Rabban fight. They can include the scene in the end where Gurney volunteers himself to fight against Feyd. But instead of him doing it out of a desire for revenge, he volunteers out of loyalty to his 'king' and friend. Then you can have Paul turn to him, and say something along the lines of "I must win my own battles if I wish to lead. Just as you taught me brother."
We can have two very powerful moments for both characters without deviating to far from the source material.
Rejoice, the old intro music is BACK! The last one was really good too.
Thank goodness
Friday? Cookies? Proper intro music? Sun shining?
Today is a good day.
Indeed!!!
Yayy!!!
I don't think a confrontation between Rabban and Gurney would detract at all.
As you've pointed out, his death in the novels was almost anticlimax, and while his deaths in the Lynch film and the SciFi miniseries were somewhat less so, they still lacked the proper impact.
I have a feeling that everything that happens to Gurney (and everyone except Paul, maybe) post the Harkonnen defeat is going to be left largely untold in the Villeneuve films.
Well done focus on this aspect of the Gurney Halleck story. I, for one, would really like to see a showdown and battle between Gurney Halleck and Beast Rabban.
It needs to happen.
Gurney immediately dispatches him
Honestly, I like Herbert's theme of "Vengeance denied" much more than another moment of cliche "Come-uppance" with no further lessons to learn from it. Being denied this vengeance allows you to ask the question: How do you move on without satisfaction nor a chance to try again? It's a much harder path to walk and a natural fit for giving Paul a way to deny Gurney something meaningfull.
Perhaps Gurney doesn't get to kill him. Maybe he's robbed of it, and his rage for vengeance only grows, allowing things to remain the same in the duel scene.
Considering the damage to halec’s family caused by the hark’s. Poetic justice need to happen
I always assumed Rabban was killed by 'just another soldier' in 'just another skirmish'. The most notorious or most heroic of men can meet the most insignificant of fates in war.
The Gurney vs Rabban fight would be surely the coolest death scene for Rabban. I think he also would be more threatening character with this fight instead of some offscreen death scene.
Probably gonna be a warm up fight for Paul vs Feyd
Agree I like how Gerney Halik is portrayed in the book his full character arc from revenge to redemption and the Baron who heals Geidi Prime
I think a final one on one fight to the death between Halleck and Rabban might diminish the impact of the fight between Paul and Feyd-Rautha. An unsatisfying killing of Rabban by Halleck might be more interesting, but difficult to pull off without a lot of exposition. It will be interesting to see how Rabban's death is handled in the movie.
It detracts, although a show down would be satisfying, it's a small thing compared to what he dose in the books, every trace of hakonan influance is wiped away from their home world by Gurney, a former slave, a victim of their brutality has lordship of their world and exponges every last trace of them from it.
It's another beautiful day, a Nerd Cookies Dune video! I am loving thr 40k material and the Dune videos as well. I would say honestly that giving Gurney a shot at Raban is not terrible or damaging to the overall story or universe. You are totally right, though. Gurney was in the great hall when Paul fought Feyd, and I think you have a massive point about the diminishing the Nuances. It was the same complaint I had with Keynes being a woman rather than Chanis Father. The story was written that both Paul and Chani lost their Father's, who they deeply loved, as well as a son to the Harkonen. It was never about race or disliking women or any of thr usual gaslighting attacks some people like to throw around to dissuade someone from not agreeing with a change like this, the actress who they chose for Keynes was good and im sure she is a fine person and all that, but it was about something that I saw as a deep and dark connection between Paul and Chani that was diminished by making Liet Keynes a woman rather than Chanis father. I agree with the idea that letting Gurney kill Raban does diminish his character arc even if it does not in any way destroy the movie or anything like that.
I just rewatched the movie. I’m not sure I prefer this version more than the original, but it is a well made and well acted movie. I also think Sean Young played a great Chani. Looking forward to part 2. Thanks for keeping the Dune Universe alive Elaine.
Awesome! Thanks for the video Elaine. Great for a relaxing friday :)
The subtleties of Hallecks transformational arc through the terraforming of Geidi Prime would be difficult to express in a feature film length narrative (especially given that Halleck is a secondary character and so cannot dominate film time.) Thus the Halleck/Raban contest provides a meaningful expression of part of Halleck's life arc in a concise film scene. Such a contest is not inconsistent with his going on to perform the terraforming over the following decades. At the same time, the contest with Raban occurs in the context of the retaking of Dune by the Atreides for whom Halleck is both a key lieutenant and along with Duncan Idaho, the trainer of Atreides warriors (as well as Paul himself). This makes him a worthy combatant. So I'm cool with the director's choice.
I always appreciate your Dune videos. Keep up the great work Elaine and take care!
I need to rewatch part 1. I don’t recall how much Gurney’s time with the Harkonnen was brought up.
I’ll most likely judge it based on how it fits in with the rest of the movie. I can forgive some amount of adaptation if it fits.
Thematically it makes sense from a viewer/reader satisfaction perspective. Often times adjustments have to be made to account for viewers getting a satisfying conclusion to dramatic buildups. And this would be a good way to handle that while also not straying much (if at all) from inferences in the original source material.
It just... works, on multiple levels for many reasons.
As much as I would like to see Gurney kill the Beast, I would be happy with Gurney just happening upon his dead body, it would fit what comes later when Paul refuses to let him fight Feyd. Great video!
I believe it makes sense for a duel to occur as he would wish to avenge the death the duke Leto and his sister as well as for his own treatment as a slave. Would be all set up and no pay off otherwise I think
Maybe they can show Gurney killing Rabban, then he realizes it brought him no peace. Then later when he begs Paul to represent him against Feyd-Rautha, instead of ascribing a vengeful motive to kill Harkonens, just have him say something like "My lord, I am no longer desiring to kill Harkonens. Revenge brought me no peace, and this is my way of protecting you because you stand for the new order of peace justice etc." Then Paul declines him gracefully.
I agree. I would accept that change in the cannon.
It would make sense for Gurney to seek revenge against a Harkonen. So why not Rabban.
I for one have enjoyed the many interpretations of Dune; while a final confrontation between Guerney Halleck and Beast Rabban isn't explicitly inferred it does; however, at some zest to the story. Rabban while a minor character in the Dune saga; does show one of many developments to the story as outline in Dune. The fact that Rabban is eventually killed during the final battle of Arrakine, it's alluded to but only suggested. The SciFi Channels depiction of Rabban's beheading was a satisfying end to a character who was so hated that everyone Fremen and not, rejoiced! It just goes to show; in the end, that what the real storyline that was important is about loyalty and honor. Loyalty to the Atreides set of moral standards; and while Paul eventually embraces his Fremen customs, he's still an Atreides by birth and still subject to the rules as set forth by his father.
Gurney could well kill beast raban on screen, and learn that it wasn't what he needed to find peace. It is learning that lesson that may lead him to his future restoration of Gedi Prime.
After finding out how his sister died in the Dune prequel trilogy, it would be great to see Gurney get his revenge by killing Rabban personally. Dude totally has it coming.
That would be nice if the “prequel trilogy” were anything more than fan fiction.
At last, Thanos meets Drax on the big screen.
Very thoughtful and insightful commentary. Most impressive video.
It detracts from the book but enhances the movie. Each version is different and both can coexist due to their quality and loyalty thus far.
Again I say thank you Elaine. I nvr read the books and just by happenstance saw the newer Dune movie. But the fact that you are SO very much the emodiment of in depth analysis and your amazingly talented attention to detail and somehow still able to walk through the humble realm of relaying these characters and situations that have been the most profound reasoning behind my ever growing obsession with any and all of the subject matter is ultimately something that I cannot even pretend to imagine of having a dream about remotely putting into words. Girlfriend let me tell you that you are the MASTER of Dune lore and I have been made privy to this world and now venture into your other creative genius in the other sci-fi worlds that I also apologize im very much ignorant of. I'm not a spiritual man or religious and introverted with no friends or family...omg scratch that. I have a beautiful beastfriend/cat/roommate named Tosh who straight up will bestow her rightful vengeance if'n I say some bullshit like that so please excuse my lapse in my misfiring synapses and let's not let this reach her very much perceptive ears..and switchblade equipped paws. Nonetheless tho ma'am if you ever EVER even forget for a plank moment please don't have another one pass cuz you my leige are the epitome of greatness and limitless mature mental fortitude. And not to sound creepy but I am certain that I an not the only bi-ped smitten by your intellectual prowess and I know that I usually have a nihilistic cloud over my head but if there is indeed a ray of sunshine in my life when I pick-up my phone to see my recommendations its you. So from the very much deep and sometimes dark depths of wtfever this is I am ...I an forever grateful and appreciative for your existence and easily way past that for the bonus that you chose to share that awesomeness you call your personality with us. I don't know why or what i did to deserve it. And quite selfishly I don't even care anymore but I will always forever be in dept and thank the cosmos for Tosh and for you. That being said PLEASE PLEASE stay safe and vigilant. People can be nefarious and want to hurt innocent people and I've been a bodyguard for 14 years before I got the kidney C and nothing hurts more than not being able to protect those I feel our society needs. So for all of us. For you. For your loved ones. Take care of yourself and head on A swivel kiddo. And again. Although you couldn't see it I'd just like to take a knee and express my gratitude. I know it's not easy but gurl you have a way of doing the damn thing like this is your sole purpose for being sent to this lil blue marble. Keep going and remember you have a legion of nerds who don't consume nothing of value if it ain't fresh baked cookies!
Thank you for the kind words and the support! I'm glad I'm able to provide content that you find enjoyable.
@NerdCookies just calling it like reality shows it. Stay safe ma'am
Drax vs. Thanos.
If I had a nickel for every cinematic blood feud between Josh Brolin and Dave Bautista characters, I’d have two nickels. It’s not a lot, but it’s weird that it’s happened twice.
Thanks for keeping up the Dune 2 story since they can’t promote this movie ! ✌🏻
Another great video Elaine. Keep up the great work.
I think its a really cool idea and one of the things that has been lacking in the books. I mean hundreds of pages are spend on visions, premonitions and philosophy but when actual stuff happens its over in a sentence or 2.
One of the problems with adapting Dune is that Frank did things intentionally and meticulously. He could have just as easily included some reference to Gurney killing Rabban, even if it wasn't directly shown, but he didn't. There's a reason Stilgar is the one to say that Rabban is dead, and personally I always liked the miniseries scene of him being torn to pieces by the people he'd brutally oppressed. I also liked that they were nameless Arrakeen folk, taking away the dignity of some grand confrontation. There's a lot of disappointment in the Dune series - it's partly a deconstruction of heroic tropes, after all - and Gurney's anger over not having his chance to kill a Harkonnen is a great part of the climax, especially right after Thufir's suicide.
As for the Lynch version - I liked the ambiguity of it (the communicator telling the Baron that "The Emperor's had Rabban seized" followed by his head in a bucket, and that's it), but I could never get past the head model not looking much like Paul Smith to me. It looked real enough, just not like him.
Look who’s back from the dead
5:06, a Duel between Gurney and The Beast would be as welcome as the Elves arriving at Helm's Deep during The Two Towers movie.
Never mentioned in the Source Books, but welcomed by the Patrons of the Source Material.
It'd be an extremely welcome addition :)
Give Gurney Rabban .When Feyd Rautha makes his challenge to Paul, Paul looks at Gurney and says "This ones mine Gurney" Gurney nods in agreement and we can see that Gurney is still wounded from the duel with Rabban.
Perhaps Gurney defeats Rabban, but leaves him alive and they take him as a prisoner thus showing Gurney's "growth"
Gurney could deal with and kill Rabban during the battle for the film , witnessed by Stilgar or other freemen who report it to the Naib , who then states later that Rabban is dead as per book :)
I don't mind this departure from the story too much as, to be honest, us readers would have liked to have had it go that way.
But Gurney should remember one thing when he fights Raban. The Harkonens are BRUUUUUUUUTAL.
Gurney TRULY defeated ALL of Harkonnen-kind (not just *one* of them) via his bringing of death, rebirth, & transformation to their home world !
Imagine Paul in the movie agreeing to Gurney being his champion. The scene would last 10 seconds with Feyd dead .
Given what The Harkonenns did to Gurney and his sister in the books, a fight between him and the Beast is well earned!
I'm actually looking forward to the confrontation between Gurney and Rabban. I feel like with the tone of the movies, this will fit in nicely. We can use our imagination and assume that after this battle, Gurney finally finds peace and still works hard to bring peace.
most/very likely outcome in Dune book if extra chapter was written would be revenge on Raban by Gurney due to historic trespasses , then zen peace transformation after the fact
It's important to remember that Dune is the story of Paul Atreides. While details like Gurney's hatred of House Harkonnen are important, in a movie format it's too easy to bog down the story with minutiae. Denis has to chose what aspects of the book he will adapt very carefully so as to not harm the movie's continuity. There are numerous fights in Dune, the most important of which is at the end of the novel, between Paul and Feyd, for no less a prize than leadership of the known universe.
Break time Dune Cookies!
Yayy!!!😍😍😍
Drax: Thanos!!!
Just when I was getting used to the new theme, I hear the old one. Both are great and hopefully will hear both switched up.
Not even close. I’ve been watching for 2.5 years and the og nerd cookies theme is as iconic as the narrators voice. How long have you been watching?
@@family26ful Definitely not 2.5 years ago. I think I found this channel a year or so ago.
I love the idea and it makes sense
Im all for artistic license when it comes to enhancing the viewers experience.......this fight is going to be EPIC but its so difficult to manage my expectations. Time will tell 🙂
No, I don't want Gurney to be the one to kill the Beast Rabban. I think it would be more fitting for Gurney and Stilgar to be told that Rabban and his detachment were killed. That it happened during the opening phase of the attack on Arrakian. I think this fits more with the book's ending, and with Frank Herbert vision.
The timing for this showdown has to be astute, I would perhaps set it soon after the kanly duel between Paul and Feyd-Rautha, and to show Gurney dissatisfied with his vengeance...
i prefer this version over Lynch's version
Nanny Nanny Boo boo, I'm weirder than you, you...........
But I won't keep "Rabban" it in your face.
I always thought gurney Halleck’s part was under developed. When I finished book one I wanted more.
I wish he would do all the books.
Decimating means to reduce by a factor of ten percent. It doesn't mean to wipe out or destroy.
The Gurney vs Rabban figures are also out. So we van say it is certain they will fight
An inspired and welcome compliment.
Do you know if Duncan will be coming back in the movies? I’m not overly familiar with the books and when he is brought back, I just know he does come back at some point. Great video!
SPOILER ALERT!!!!
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Yes, but not until the third movie which will adapt the second book Dune: Messiah.
@@NerdCookiesI’m down for that! He is such a good character, thank you!
This video is so soothing after all the shit I took this week
Sorry you had a bad week. Hope next week is better 🙏
I bet Gurney carves him up like a wedding cake. hah. Cheers for the vid.
Gurney, victorious over Rabban: "I am... inevitable."
I think the trailer is ambiguous as to whom Rabban is addressing. It could be Paul. The trailer does cut to Gurney after that shot of Rabban, but I think it may be a leap to assume they will show Gurney and Rabban engaged. It would likely detract from the fight between Paul and Feyd, to my mind.
Gurney waited a long time to cut Raban’s throat. Then he got the coward and slain him way faster then he really liked to.
I'm always in favor of something being added to the source material that feels like a natural part of the story, even if it was not originally part of the book. This fight is one of those things that, if anything, I felt was missing from the book as it just seems like a natural clash these two would have to bring some closure to both character arcs.
For me, the fight between them was far too short but also more realistic. Gurney is by FAR the superior fighting in ALL aspects.
I would have like to see Gurney gut a bunch of Sardukar
As paul steps up too fight Feyd he hears loud footsteps moving towards him this is when he looks up and sees none other than Gunery Halleck as paul is about too speak Gunery speaks i will stand for House Atreidas
in the background
as the Beast pushea through guards he laughs out loud he finally shouts i will fight for house Harkonnen
if this somehow happens which i think it will or somehow different it will be the way it should happen
Rabban should have left the whip at home 😂😂😂
Gurney's path is more fitting...he figuratively and physically wiped the Harkonnens from the map and from their own home world.
I'm okay with changing from source material as long as it's fun story.
Are you going to do anything on Stilgar?
I do have another video on Stilgar in the works
@@NerdCookies Oh,ok...nice
While a Duel between the Gurney 🆚 The Beast would make interesting cinema it detracts from both the original story and Paul's journey just a bit to much.
Paul ultimately battles Feyd completes the circle.
I also thought the early duel with Jamis was rushed in part one and took away from his "Jamis taught me when you kill you pay for it" made No Sense. In the film they had only just met like minutes, suddenly he taking his water meant something. Made No sense at all but that is Hollywood for you Not Making Sense.
Fremen wouldn't behead anyone. It would be a waste of water. :D
Thanks Elaine.
In the final movie it's a couple frames rather than a scene.
In the movie they made Rabban so strong I am not sure anyone who defeated him would have much left to fight on. The off scrern death serms a better option.
Paul would destroy him
I prefer the sci-fi miniseries approach where the fremen populace kills the beast.
FH SHOULD have written a confrontation between Gurney and Rabban. The only negative is it might have reduced the intensity of the duel between Paul and Feyd. However, I think the final fight at the end of Dune should have been the fight between Gurney and Rabban, which would have been far more appropriate. Given the anticlimactic death of the Baron Harkonnen, a less intense duel would have worked fine, and thus a climactic fight between Rabban and Gurney, to symbolize the final eradication of the House Harkonnen would have worked. And worked well. 🫡🫡
One possibility just occurred to me. Given the abilities of the film medium, running both the duel between Paul and Feyd, and a simultaneous show of the fight between Gurney and Rabban could be possible. Paul salutes Feyd, "May thy knife chip and shatter!", and we cut to Gurney hissing "For my little sister!" and both fights start. At the penultimate climax, when Feyd's poisoned needle gets stuck, immobilizing him, Gurney foils Rabban's treacherous hidden knife, and both Paul and Gurney strike home, killing their enemy, master and student. 😮😮😮
I can imagine a fight what would be similar to the simultaneous fight scene of Thorin vs Azog and Legolas vs Bolg in The Battle of the Five Armies. It worked and it looked cool.
I like the idea of a fight between them movies are always different from the books plus in the book to me Rabban’s death was too bland
Many great tyrants are killed by unknown hands. Changing the story to get Gurney and Ruban fight is more proof that this series should have been a trilogy. The attempt to tie up loose ends and take plot threads to satisfactory conclusions can not be done in two 3 hour movies. Even the audio book that was acted out, takes a 50 hour marathon to get in every line. I'm not saying to follow the book completely, but try not to change what is not needed to be changed, and push to edtend the series into a needed additional movie so a proper story can be told.
It is.... Inevitable