The fact that the legendary Chris Walken is playing the Emperor makes Dune 2 an instant watch for me. Also, the Emperor's worst mistake was siding with the Baron Harkonen.
I think his worst was overconfidence. He truly believed his Sardurkar were invincible. He believed he planned for every contingency. The Fremen spanked the Sardurkar and he was trying to play chess with a man who could see past and future, while securing an iron grip on the universe's most important and foundational economy. The Emperor never understood he was outplayed the whole time until he was in checkmate. Inviting the Harkonens into the conspiracy? Definitely a mistake... But his worst was overconfidence imo.
Agreed. If he had allied with House Atreides, could have joined there houses through marriage. Leto gets Arrakis. Shaddam stays on the throne til death. Both houses then rule through Paul and a Corrino daughter and then their children.
The old adage “be careful what you wish for” springs to mind. It is likely had the emperor just left the Atreides be, or even had he vetoed his plan to back the Harkonnen ambush, the Duke’s suffocating honour and sense of duty would have seen no sedition from his house. Shaddam constructed the guillotine that saw his power decapitated
The phrase "God laughs at men making plans" comes to mind. The Emperor tried so hard to keep hold of what he had and was destined to ultimately lose it all to someone else. A desperate man barely clinging to power was the portrayal we mostly saw in Lynch's Dune. I wonder what we will see the in part 2 of the new adaptation and am kind of curious to see how Christopher Walken is going to approach the role.
I think it is going to be intereating to see Walken's Emperor and how the director portrays his desperate attempt to hold onto power. Walken usually embodies more dynamic characters. I think that Lynch's version captured the decline of House Carrino quite well (imho). We shall see how part 2 handles it.
Walken should basically Channel his character from King of New York as he's losing control and figuring out that he's about to die I don't know I think that'd be cool
He will approach it like every other role he's played. Like he's playing a version of Christopher Walken and the script was written for the Emperor Christopher Walken.
@@judowrestlerkaYup, I would never cast him in anything, because he's such a repetitive, one dimensional caricature... There are only two lines where I've believed that he believed what he was saying: About the length of time he wore the gold watch ...up his ass... And that he gotta have more cowbell... 🥴🥴🥴🥴
The reason why Shaddam couldn't organize the wedding between Leto and Irulan was because the Bene Gesserit were confident that the Kwisatch Haderach was about to appear. According to Bene Gesserit plans, the KH should have been the result of the union of an Atreides girl with the Harkonnen heir. They wanted this superbeing on the imperial throne and would realize that by marrying him with one of Shaddam's five daughters. Thus they ordered Empress Anirul to give only daughters, denying an heir for the Emperor. Leto himself hoped that he could access the throne through marriage and that's why Jessica was never given the rank of official spouse and remained a concubine.
Jessica brought the change one generation early. That's the problem with messiahs.. they never are what the Mythos "foretold" them to be.. they end up being WORSE and inflict more devastation, destruction, vulgarity, profanity and bloodshed on the world than as it were before their arrival.
The reason I like your channel so much is because you mention things I never would have considered or thought of. For example, the terraforming of Salusa Secundus into “gentle things” would overtime, reduce the Emperor's ability to produce more Sardaukar. In the book, I thought Paul was just being merciful.
Ghengis Khan would rotate his men out of China so his men wouldn’t get soft, and that’s why they endured when most other horse tribe societies that went raiding and conquering became settled societies.
I think the baron spent 80 or 90 billion on a single military engagement, ( or invasion) just for transportation, the manpower and equipment and costs of training and salaries would be even more, 300 thousand soldiers and 2 thousand warships. The scale is incredible
@@DxrkyJxnkoJRM Which part of which book? The only mentions of 'solari' in the original Dune book are spice valued at 620k solari per decagram which was wealth to buy many things, the Harkonnens getting 10 billion Solarii every 330 days, a million solari for a crysknife, Fenring doing a billion solari in spice bribes, and that the solari's value was set at negotiations with the Guild. This is only for the first book. The Dune book series is fairly big, so provide the book, the quotes, and context for your calculations.
It never clicked for me before the reason why the Baron specifically crippled spice production before leaving. As explained in the video, it was so that the rest of the Landseraat who were allies of the Atreides wouldn't care if the Atreides were attacked on Dune as long as there was still spice being produced. Great video as always.
The worst was Thufir Hawat, together with the Atreid forces of Caleidan, attacking Giedi Primo's illegal spice reserves. But in return Thufir Hawat helped the Harkonnen as Mentat poisoned Having to accelerate the Baron's Plan by not giving help to Rabban, making him more oppressive against the Fremen and thus Feyd-Rautha becoming the beloved and charismatic Leader of the Fremen. A Genius like any other Mentat
Shaddam IV presentation reminded me of Sauron in LOTR. He's referred to but actually seen until the very end. We learn more about him from Baron Harkonnen & Count Fenring. I like the way Herbert kept him in the shadows.
It's always a pleasure to find you've done a new video on the lore and history of Dune, LOTR, Stargate SG1 or other series because you clearly LOVE the stories more than the modern message and politics being interjected into them by activists. Unlike some other "Dune-centeric" channels (or marvel or Star Wars or Lord of the Rings) I have watched in the past, you separate modern ideology and the love of the art wonderfully!! Great work as always, I really enjoy your work!
Except that Dune has an intrinsic political message through out the books. Herbert himself has even commented on it. So I don't really know what you mean...
@@Emanon... Dune has a political message about trusting demagogues and the cult of personality. It does not have a modern day Republicans or democrats are LITTERALY HITLER crazy ideological tribalist message. Frank would LIKELY be horrified by modern day politics on both sides if he was in fact warning people against the cult of personality as he said. Dune did not contain 3rd wave feminist msgs, or overtly Racist msgs. It was about the struggle of class, those who have and those who don't, and the danger a messiah can pose to everyone. Having one political message does not make ALL political messages appear
@@Emanon... it's pretty simple actually, the politics of Dune are essentially universal and could never be considered "contemporary". Whereas a lot of stories, namely Rings of Power, which had taken Tolkien's works and smashed it to bits with it's seriously room temperature IQ level of writing and interjection of contemporary politics into what is essentially British/English mythology. Science fiction and fantasy readers/watchers are very, VERY keen on spotting bullshit and mentally inferior conceits, and we despise being talked down to or preached at through the fiction we know and love. Modern day politics have no place in Tolkien just like it doesn't in Dune. And I'm a full fledged liberal as most of my friends and none of us like nor want this crap in our entertainment, we are downright contemptuous of anyone trying this shit in our beloved works.
The sad thing about this is that the Emperor could've easily avoided war with house Atreides by betrothing Irulen to Paul from the start. A marriage between the heirs of both houses Corrino and Atreides would've guaranteed Duke Leitos loyalty while also insuring Shaddam stayed on the throne until his eventual death. Because people often forget while Duke Leito was a good man deep down he was also eyeing throne and everyone knew it. While Leito also didn't want war he was ready to take the throne either through politics by marrying Irulun himself or by force which was why he was building an army strong enough to go up against the Sadukar while also rallying the other Great Houses behind house Atreides. So in a way Shaddam was not entirely wrong in moving against house Atreides he just didn't see that he had other options which is why he lost in the end.
I was thinking the same thing, why not gain loyalty from the Duke by marriage between Paul and Irulen? Mentats being the smartest beings and everyone having a higher intelligence thanks to spice, how stupid were they to not see this as an option? 😂 Having both Atriedies and Sadukar fight side by side, they would be unstoppable. Let’s not mention if Leto was able to gain the loyalty of the Freemen, they would be juggernaut of power. Alas the Emperor took the easy and cheap option of siding with Harkkonans. 😵💫
Hell, if they wanted there could have been the potential for a triumvirate between House Corrino, House Atreides, and House Harkonnen. Think about it, if Paul's sister were wed to say . . . Feyd-Rautha when she came of age then they would have a Corrino Emperor, an Atreides Emperor in waiting, and House Harkonnen would have a strong link to the throne. Why do I suggest Feyd-Rautha? Because he's kind of the only Harkonnen who could be swayed and potentially changed from what the Baron made of him and he would likely be the most reasonable. He also probably hates his brother and uncle for what they did to his parents, as well as the Baron's "proclivities" involving the poor boy. Plus, with a Bene-Gesserit in the making with "the Voice" he could be kept in line quite easily if he were to be placed on the throne and the Baron deposed. Because, if I am being honest, the Baron is the easiest to depose of the three. Shaddam IV had the Sardaukar and the lion's share (haha) of the naval and military assets, as well as the most powerful economic and political sway of the three. Atreides has the second most powerful ground forces and the leaders to make them great. Harkonnen doesn't have as much going for them besides their numbers and their cruelty. The Baron would honestly have the least defenders of the bunch and if Shaddam IV had the foresight to match up his eldest daughter with Leto, then their combined forces could attack Baron Harkonnen, end his bitter rivalry, and install Feyd-Rautha as a more amicable and more importantly *allied* Baron Harkonnen with a political marriage between the two families. Few would oppose it openly, as now the Emperor would be shown to have powerful newfound allies and his power would now be greater than it would have ever been. He'd have the two most powerful houses besides his own under his control until his passing. With time, he might have even learned of the Bene-Gesserit scheme because Leto or someone else could discover the conspiracy and summarily have the leadership slaughtered for their treachery. He might have even produced a male heir after that. They would have become virtually unassailable. There's plenty of ways the Emperor could have prevented his own destruction if he just hadn't been so shortsighted.
@@austinkersey2445 You're forgetting that there's all the other great houses and interstellar powers, that all had wills to power and schemes of their own. The Bene Gesserit alone would not tolerate such an alliance between Leto and Shaddam, and likely already had contingency plans for Leto's assassination if he maintained a trajectory of gaining more power, influence and popularity. Ditto the Spacing Guild
One of the things I'm most looking forward to is seeing just how Christopher Walken plays this role. He is an extremely good actor (when he wants to be). My hope is that he plays the role straight, and without any unnecessary affections. José Ferrero did a great job in the 1984 movie. I think Walken will understand that he needs to play the part in a deadly serious manner, and with gravitas, perhaps arrogance tinged with nuanced paranoia. The scene I'm most looking forward to is the climatic scene between Walken and Stellan Skarsgård as a terrified Baron. We might see some powerhouse acting on the screen. Wow, I can't wait.
@@earlware4322 Yep. And Jose Ferrero delivers that line perfectly in the movie! It's very funny how he says it. Actually, it sounds like the kind of line that Walken would deliver, and it would be funny to hear how he actually would deliver it. However, we know of course that Denis Villeneuve would not (and probably could not) use that exact line in his script.
The parallels between the Padisha Emperor and Herod the Great from the Bible are uncanny and perhaps, in some ways, intentional. Another great show, young lady.
I'll never understand why he didn't join the two great houses himself by betrothing Paul and Irulan. His grandchildren would carry his blood and their rule would be un-questionable. Decisions out of fear are seldom the path forward.
As a person that had never read the books or watch any previous Dune movie, this is the best explanation for the conspiracy against House of Atreides. Thumb’s up.
The Emperor was the cause of his own troubles. He should have lived the rest of his life in peace and let the Duke Succeed him at the end of it. Great video.
The biggest disconnect for me was why Thufir Hawat didn’t take steps to hide the lethality of the Atredes legions from the Imperium. While it wasn’t fair to blame him for underestimating the massive amount he Harkonnens were willing to spend on assaulting the Atredes, there was no excuse for Thufir to not try to hide the lethality of the Atredes military. Serious blunder. While a crack down on security would have been bad for morale, it might have shaken some of the spies loose…possibly even Yueh.
3:03 It must be also noted, I believe in the original novel, that Shaddam loved Leto like a brother, and he hated the fact that fate and politics, dictated the nature of their relationship, rather than familial ties. Also, Shaddam considered Paul as a worthy husband for Irulan, and he admired Paul, as much as he had his father, Duke Leto 🙏🙏🙏🙏
I am looking forward to seeing more Dave Bautista. Whether he is playing Drax, Avalanche or the Beast, he fills the screen with his presence. Who knew a former wrestler would become an exciting actor?!
Pro wrestlers **are** actors. Pro wrestling is scripted and choreographed, with opportunities for ad-lib. Wrestlers practice and rehearse constantly to give the audience the best possible show. Wrestling isn't a subtle art, but there are opportunities for nuance, which is kin to subtlety. Actors who started in wrestling: Roddy Piper Dwayne Johnson Dave Bautista ???
Due to their size and/or athleticism, quite a number or wresters also play bit parts in well known movies like Nathan Jones(Mad Max: Fury Road) and Robert Maillet/Kurrgan(Pacific Rim)
The Emperor made two errors in Judgement that I can identify. He misinterpreted his best interest, as his Empires best interest. He also assumed that a leader leads by domination most effectively. Firstly, he damaged the Spice Trade to secure his placement. Twice. Once by giving a feckless sociopath Dune. As threatening a position as that is, it poses danger to the other houses by making Spice a zero-Sum calculation. Sociopaths reduce everything to zero-sum. Secondly by hinging the Spice on a plot to permanently cancel House Atreides. That’s not his Empires interest. It’s his interest. Secondly, he assumed the primary means of stabile rule is to knock down every possible threat as harshly as possible. It’s not. Because the moment you weaken, two of those you’ve teamed up with will kill you. Instead, the most stable leaders engage in reciprocity most effectively. If threats arise then. You have to get all of your allies who you gain from, and who gain from you to attack you. Which is unlikely if the both know your strength, and your likelihood of having support. Critically, in this set up, Sociopaths tend to be unable to engage in reciprocity, and thereby cut their own throats before you must. This is not easy when competence is not highly selected for. Or that’s my view. It’s what I’ve been thinking about lately, is why I mention it.
Ironically, if Padishah Emperor Shaddam Corrino IV had been more preoccupied with strengthening the image of the Imperial Crown and benevolently spending his energy, fortune, and efforts forging alliances with strong houses while benevolently attempting to raise up weak houses (thus fulfilling the chivalry in _noblesse oblige_ expected of rulers) instead of plotting to kill his father and seize power, he would have a rivaled respect among the Landsraad and had ample opportunity to COOPERATE with those like Duke Leto for a brighter imperial future.
Excellent video! Is there a chance you make a video about the infamous Honored Matres and their feud with the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood? I'd love to see one! Thanks
that is a very concisive summary of the power dynamics that lead to the events of the first "Dune" novel. It should be noted that the Bene Gesserit knew of this plan beforehand and agreed to it under the condition, that Jessica's and Paul's are spared. The secret plan of creating the Kwisatz Haderach, which Paul and Jessica are part of, was obvioulsy not mentioned to the emperor. The Lynch movie suggests, the spacing guild foresaw Paul acquiring powers that they would not be able to control, so the guild wanted Paul dead. Difficult situation for the emperor.
Christopher Walken is a brilliant casting choice for Emperor. But I also think Antonio Banderas would’ve been awesome. I don’t know why but I just reckon he’d would’ve nailed it too….
I noticed that there is no mention of the Bene Gesserit sisterhood at all? I find that odd. Is it possible that the Emperor was being subtly manipulated? Think about it. The sisterhood is pushing for the Kwisatz Haderach to appear... And it was supposed to be something to do with both The Harkkonans and the Atreides. Lady Jessica was supposed to have a girl to the Duke. Lady Jessica is the product of rape by Baron Harkkonan. Arrakis has already been seeded by the Bene Gesserit, there is even a Reverend Mother there! Fremen Sayyadina Ramallo. So.... Maybe the original idea was that Lady Jessicas daughter was to live through the war on Arrakis and take a special Fremen husband and THAT paring would produce the Kwisatz Haderach. He would be a monumental warrior, backed by incredible warriors who would control spice and therefore.... EVERYTHING. Oh.... And he would have the ear of the Sisterhood... Because everyone needs guidance, right? I think the Emperor was a puppet, dancing to the schemes of the Sisterhood
I read all these things but it never really “clicked” how there was a purpose and connection behind every action the emperor took. 1: Pull out the Harkonnens, and convince them to attack the Atreides over an old grudge. -Bankrupt the Harkonnens in the process to remove them off the political board. -House Harkonnen also takes the political blame, shifting political liability away from the throne. 2: Kill the rising star Duke Leto, taking House Atreides off the political board. -Set them up for failure on Dune first, so as to make his death more palatable to the other houses. What the Baron doesn’t realize is he is also being played by the emperor just as Leto is. The emperor is jealously guarding his throne by removing two prominent houses at once, and tricking the Harkonnen’s to be grateful for it. In 60 years if the Harkonnen’s regain their footing don’t think for a moment that the throne wouldn’t just as easily take them out again.
While I haven't read the book yet, all that I have read and heard about it says that the entire house Atreides besides Paul and his mother fell in one night with only minimal casualties suffered by Baron Harkonen and the only death suffered by the Sardaukar in the fight were from Duncan Idaho. Meaning that in the end Emperor Shaddam Corrino IV was worried over nothing. That while formidable, the war machine of house Atredies couldn't Duke Leto was too noble to declare war on the emperor and the 5 legions of Sardaukar (150,000 members of the estimated 1.5 million) were enough to wipe them out.
I just started my journey into "Dune" this past weekend. I've watched the hbo movie and I've started reading the book. I just got past the chapter where Paul is talking to the family Dr and Paul read a passage from a book and he freaked out. I'm blown away by the depth of the world. I thought G.o.T. was deep and it is but Dune takes it to another level.
I did picture the emperor as looking younger, due to the influence of the Spice. Shaddam was 37 when he ascended the throne, but would have been physiologically younger. He was 70 during the Arrakis Revolt, but must have looked younger. But it doesn't matter. That sort of thing doesn't process in our own society, so we have got to make anybody who lives far in the future or even 'twenty minutes into the future' (as TV Tropes puts it) age at the same rate we do.
I think whether the emperor succeeded or not the time for his family to rule was going to be up sooner or later it was obvious that there were forces moving across the known universe that we're going to reshape it regardless of the schemes he and others had.... That being said I would love to get your take on the expanse series of books and the TV series.... Love your content
Excellent video, thanks. I wish all UA-cam commentators would use the word "empire" rather than known universe or galaxy or Cosmos since that is what they mean.
Great video, thanks for this. I'm wondering though how Denis has written the emperor to be. When I first heard Christopher Walken was cast, I was totally surprised and bewildered. I'm a huge Walken fan, there isn't a movie he was in that I haven't liked, if anything just because of his unique presence. I've never in my wildest dreams thought of Walken being the emperor, it's almost as if someone was stoned as hell and came up with the inspiration out of the blue lol. But nevertheless, I know that with Denis and Walken that this will be a very serious and nuanced affair, and I'm even more fascinated with what's going to happen in Dune 2 than ever before with his casting. I'm reallllllllllly looking forward to Dune 2, nothing comes close to my anticipation of this movie next year.
I wad also intriqued (and a little confused) by casting Walken as the Emperor. It'll be very interesting to see how he plays it. (I think that Jose Ferrar(?) did an amazing job in the '84 version. I know that I will be comparing the two performances, even if only subconsciously, while watching Part 2.)
I still don't understand how thus all solved the Emperor's problems. If I'm being honest, I'm not sure Duke Leto ever actually appeared interested in seizing the throne, making Shaddam's paranoia unfounded, but even if his plan had gone off perfectly, he'd still be surrounded by much shiftier Lords, who actually may have been seeking his power, such as Baron Harkonnen was, and he still didn't have an heir. This is the biggest flaw for me,as the Padashah Emperor had no real way to fix this. It would have been interesting to see what his next objectives were, assuming Harkonnen didn't just crush him, and take is crown.
If Shaddam had allowed Paul to marry Irulan, he could have stayed on the throne till his death and his bloodline would of been preserved thru Irulan for future generations. But, he was jealous and petty and schemed with the Baron, which would end up destroying his house and the Harkonnens. Also, the golden path wouldn't of been followed and Mankind would be obliterated. The story played out the only way it could have to preserve humankind...so in that regard Shaddam helped save humanity indirectly. :)
@@hdufort Agree with that...they desperately wanted the kwisatz haderach...but one they could control, and I think through him they wanted to control the galaxy. I think Shaddam was not really anyone they were all that interested in, his daughter was already a Bene Gesserit, and Shaddam was obviously a very flawed person. I truly think they thought he was inconsequential and would be removed when the 'controlled' kwisatz haderach... came forward....Paul obviously screwed their plans up because he could not be controlled...at all. so yeah...I agree with you, Shaddam was disposable.
I think the mentioning that leto was kin and a viable marriage heir to the throne is important. Only if shadam had pursued that option may have saved his house from decline. Yet it seems his stubborn desire to grip to power was his downfall. Just imagine a timeline of the combined strengths of atreides and carino could've accomplished
Imagine a Dune ongoing series where Christopher Walken portrays all of the main Male Characters for the first 2 Novels Worth of episodes. With the available technology this can be done, from a plump to a Guant Walken and all the Walkens in-between. Plus CW is no slouch in acting or action.
I like to think that from the machine perspective of Dune the corrino family just was like caesar from planet of the Apes, when was the first family rebeling against them on the buttlerian jihad.
So, maybe Leto has some less savory qualities that just go mostly unnoted, but he seems like a good, fine, and upstanding man, so why was he building this army? What were his plans for a force of Sardukar analogs, but via the power of friendship, and why were these forces known of, to the wider Imperium? What happened to them? Maud'dib typically seems to use his Fremen warriors, such as the Feydakin, in his efforts; if I ignore Gurney, and Duncan, we don't seem to see too many Caladan Leto troops. Obviously, I'm assuming most of them got wiped out by the Harkonnen, and Sardukar, attackers, but still, if they were so important, it's odd they don't seem to make it even halfway through the book? Was Leto gunning for the throne? Hoping to set up Paul for the role? Was he actually aware of things in a way that told him the Emperor had to go?
Just in case you didn't see it, you can easily scroll through all my Dune Lore videos by using this playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLj7gntrq3FeJHrNzjDK-JiKol2HZa86hc.html
The story of the Emperor Shaddam Corrino IV's rule of the Imperium told through the Dune series and subsequent House Corrino told of the emperor's constant scheming and plotting. Shaddam was so cruel that he murdered his own father in order to inherit the throne. But, the main reason for House Corrino's downfall wasn't just the defeat by Paul and the Fremen. It also greatly had to do with Shaddam's use of his military terror troops. The Emporer would dress them up and march them in parades and military formations. As Shaddam's years on the throne proved, he was a weak and ineffectual ruler. He was very distrustful of Duke Leto Atreides and saw the Duke as the one true enemy to his continued rule of the Golden Lion Throne.
The most critical error was not seeing the atreides as a blessing rather than a curse. He should have saw them as a benefit rather than a threat because he could have easily set up a marriage arrangement. That way he would have a legitimate male heir on the throne. The atreides would have been a very powerful Ally combining their armies. No force in the Galaxy would have been able to stop them but no he chose arrogance and pride. To hold on to his power rather than seeing something as a benefit rather than a curse.
Christopher Walken will be reciting dialog as emperor shaddam Christopher Walken in dune. I anticipate a brilliant perfomence by the always watchable Christopher Walken
I may stand alone in this but Dune has never given me a sense of scale of the rest of the universe. We only ever see a handful of people in a scene, save for a few action cuts. Where are the cities? What do people do in these cities. What would be one's life journey to end up as a fighter in the Atreides military? In a lot of ways, Dunes characters or universe never gets the depth that you get in other franchises. And that may be why it never took root, cinematically, the way other franchises have. Don't get my wrong, I love it. And I know it has some thematic choices (great man theory, story focuses on elites and not the common man, etc.), But even so, you get the sense that these elites exist almost entirely apart from their subjects. On the planet of Caladan, we barely got a sense for the palace, let alone anything beyond it. It looks like it's just a bunch of dukes and emperor's ruling a vast, empty, domain. I know the goal is to begin developing Dune as a connected universe. Hopefully we get to see more of the actual universe this is all taking place in. Because for now, it just seems like a space opera with very heavy religious overtones.
I don't think the Emperor's plans were flawed unto themselves. The Bene Gesserit are the ones that advised him to make plans against the Atreides. Even if the Emperor didn't personally go to Arrakis to deal with The Baron, Paul still had the upper hand when he threatened to destroy the Spice with his family's nuclear arsenal.
The Emperor's greatest mistake was being aware of prescience and not exploiting it. He knew the Spacing Guild had it, and he should have taken measures to duplicate it or counter act it. How could you know it's possible to see the future, and not devote everything to developing that ability.
Shaddam should have acted quicker to marry Irulan to Duke Leto. Even though the Dukes love for Lady Jessica was well known it was not a marriage. Acting early enough in Shaddam could have secured his own line with the child of Leto and Irulan that is assuming Jessica's love for Leto would permit that. But I think we can assume the Sisterhood would have stepped in HARD here and demanded Jessica take a back seat to Irulan. Both were trained Bene Gesserit they would have obeyed any orders about succession and children
Yeah, I always wondered why the Emperor didn't offer Irulan to Leto a long time ago. It would surely have secured House Carrino from any plots by the Atreides. Especially if Shaddam felt about Leto as mentioned in this video. Sorry, its been decades since I read the original novels, but I don't recall the Emperor being that fond of Leto. I know that the sisterhood had other plans for Leto's bloodline, marrying an Atreides daughter to a Harkonnen heir. Though nothing would have been jeopordized by a union of houses Carrino and Atreides...🤔
The Bene Gesserit had their own agenda : they were hoping that the Kwizatch Haderach was about to emerge, and wanted him to become Emperor by marrying a Corrino princess.
The fact that the legendary Chris Walken is playing the Emperor makes Dune 2 an instant watch for me. Also, the Emperor's worst mistake was siding with the Baron Harkonen.
House Atreides got too powerful. With power comes paranoia, which is why I am happy to remain a comfortable nobody. 😁
Agreed. He is a great addition to an already excellent cast.
I think his worst was overconfidence. He truly believed his Sardurkar were invincible. He believed he planned for every contingency. The Fremen spanked the Sardurkar and he was trying to play chess with a man who could see past and future, while securing an iron grip on the universe's most important and foundational economy. The Emperor never understood he was outplayed the whole time until he was in checkmate. Inviting the Harkonens into the conspiracy? Definitely a mistake... But his worst was overconfidence imo.
@@voodoochild1975az agreed. Well said.
Agreed. If he had allied with House Atreides, could have joined there houses through marriage. Leto gets Arrakis. Shaddam stays on the throne til death. Both houses then rule through Paul and a Corrino daughter and then their children.
The old adage “be careful what you wish for” springs to mind.
It is likely had the emperor just left the Atreides be, or even had he vetoed his plan to back the Harkonnen ambush, the Duke’s suffocating honour and sense of duty would have seen no sedition from his house.
Shaddam constructed the guillotine that saw his power decapitated
The phrase "God laughs at men making plans" comes to mind. The Emperor tried so hard to keep hold of what he had and was destined to ultimately lose it all to someone else. A desperate man barely clinging to power was the portrayal we mostly saw in Lynch's Dune. I wonder what we will see the in part 2 of the new adaptation and am kind of curious to see how Christopher Walken is going to approach the role.
I think it is going to be intereating to see Walken's Emperor and how the director portrays his desperate attempt to hold onto power.
Walken usually embodies more dynamic characters. I think that Lynch's version captured the decline of House Carrino quite well (imho). We shall see how part 2 handles it.
Walken should basically Channel his character from King of New York as he's losing control and figuring out that he's about to die I don't know I think that'd be cool
He will approach it like every other role he's played. Like he's playing a version of Christopher Walken and the script was written for the Emperor Christopher Walken.
@@judowrestlerkaYup, I would never cast him in anything, because he's such a repetitive, one dimensional caricature...
There are only two lines where I've believed that he believed what he was saying: About the length of time he wore the gold watch ...up his ass... And that he gotta have more cowbell... 🥴🥴🥴🥴
The reason why Shaddam couldn't organize the wedding between Leto and Irulan was because the Bene Gesserit were confident that the Kwisatch Haderach was about to appear. According to Bene Gesserit plans, the KH should have been the result of the union of an Atreides girl with the Harkonnen heir. They wanted this superbeing on the imperial throne and would realize that by marrying him with one of Shaddam's five daughters. Thus they ordered Empress Anirul to give only daughters, denying an heir for the Emperor. Leto himself hoped that he could access the throne through marriage and that's why Jessica was never given the rank of official spouse and remained a concubine.
Jessica brought the change one generation early. That's the problem with messiahs.. they never are what the Mythos "foretold" them to be.. they end up being WORSE and inflict more devastation, destruction, vulgarity, profanity and bloodshed on the world than as it were before their arrival.
Thank you for answer that question, that I could not stoping myself to ask
The reason I like your channel so much is because you mention things I never would have considered or thought of. For example, the terraforming of Salusa Secundus into “gentle things” would overtime, reduce the Emperor's ability to produce more Sardaukar. In the book, I thought Paul was just being merciful.
Ghengis Khan would rotate his men out of China so his men wouldn’t get soft, and that’s why they endured when most other horse tribe societies that went raiding and conquering became settled societies.
I think the baron spent 80 or 90 billion on a single military engagement, ( or invasion) just for transportation, the manpower and equipment and costs of training and salaries would be even more, 300 thousand soldiers and 2 thousand warships. The scale is incredible
So...still less than the US in a single year.
@@DoremiFasolatido1979 Depends on if Dune Solari are 1:1 with US Dollars
@@toddkes5890if you do the math based on the information given in the movie and book. 600k solaris is worth 6mil USD
@@toddkes5890i meant 600k is equivalent to 6mil usd
@@DxrkyJxnkoJRM Which part of which book? The only mentions of 'solari' in the original Dune book are spice valued at 620k solari per decagram which was wealth to buy many things, the Harkonnens getting 10 billion Solarii every 330 days, a million solari for a crysknife, Fenring doing a billion solari in spice bribes, and that the solari's value was set at negotiations with the Guild.
This is only for the first book.
The Dune book series is fairly big, so provide the book, the quotes, and context for your calculations.
It never clicked for me before the reason why the Baron specifically crippled spice production before leaving. As explained in the video, it was so that the rest of the Landseraat who were allies of the Atreides wouldn't care if the Atreides were attacked on Dune as long as there was still spice being produced. Great video as always.
The worst was Thufir Hawat, together with the Atreid forces of Caleidan, attacking Giedi Primo's illegal spice reserves. But in return Thufir Hawat helped the Harkonnen as Mentat poisoned Having to accelerate the Baron's Plan by not giving help to Rabban, making him more oppressive against the Fremen and thus Feyd-Rautha becoming the beloved and charismatic Leader of the Fremen. A Genius like any other Mentat
Shaddam IV presentation reminded me of Sauron in LOTR. He's referred to but actually seen until the very end. We learn more about him from Baron Harkonnen & Count Fenring. I like the way Herbert kept him in the shadows.
This was some of the most inspired casting of all time. Can you imagine a hard core raging Walken!
I really hope he has some meaty scenes.
I'm from the future and sorry for your disappointment
And in the final result, all the meaty exposition was cut to make more time for Paul and Chani to "fall in love". What a let-down.
Look as emperor i gota have more cow bells lol .
always time!
@@rthompson7182 like, I literally have a fever!
@@rthompson7182 lol
Nerd Cookie Dune videos are my favorite!
Yupsie!
It's always a pleasure to find you've done a new video on the lore and history of Dune, LOTR, Stargate SG1 or other series because you clearly LOVE the stories more than the modern message and politics being interjected into them by activists. Unlike some other "Dune-centeric" channels (or marvel or Star Wars or Lord of the Rings) I have watched in the past, you separate modern ideology and the love of the art wonderfully!! Great work as always, I really enjoy your work!
Except that Dune has an intrinsic political message through out the books. Herbert himself has even commented on it.
So I don't really know what you mean...
@@Emanon... Dune has a political message about trusting demagogues and the cult of personality. It does not have a modern day Republicans or democrats are LITTERALY HITLER crazy ideological tribalist message. Frank would LIKELY be horrified by modern day politics on both sides if he was in fact warning people against the cult of personality as he said. Dune did not contain 3rd wave feminist msgs, or overtly Racist msgs. It was about the struggle of class, those who have and those who don't, and the danger a messiah can pose to everyone. Having one political message does not make ALL political messages appear
Yupsie.
@@Emanon... it's pretty simple actually, the politics of Dune are essentially universal and could never be considered "contemporary".
Whereas a lot of stories, namely Rings of Power, which had taken Tolkien's works and smashed it to bits with it's seriously room temperature IQ level of writing and interjection of contemporary politics into what is essentially British/English mythology.
Science fiction and fantasy readers/watchers are very, VERY keen on spotting bullshit and mentally inferior conceits, and we despise being talked down to or preached at through the fiction we know and love. Modern day politics have no place in Tolkien just like it doesn't in Dune.
And I'm a full fledged liberal as most of my friends and none of us like nor want this crap in our entertainment, we are downright contemptuous of anyone trying this shit in our beloved works.
The sad thing about this is that the Emperor could've easily avoided war with house Atreides by betrothing Irulen to Paul from the start. A marriage between the heirs of both houses Corrino and Atreides would've guaranteed Duke Leitos loyalty while also insuring Shaddam stayed on the throne until his eventual death. Because people often forget while Duke Leito was a good man deep down he was also eyeing throne and everyone knew it. While Leito also didn't want war he was ready to take the throne either through politics by marrying Irulun himself or by force which was why he was building an army strong enough to go up against the Sadukar while also rallying the other Great Houses behind house Atreides. So in a way Shaddam was not entirely wrong in moving against house Atreides he just didn't see that he had other options which is why he lost in the end.
I was thinking the same thing, why not gain loyalty from the Duke by marriage between Paul and Irulen? Mentats being the smartest beings and everyone having a higher intelligence thanks to spice, how stupid were they to not see this as an option? 😂
Having both Atriedies and Sadukar fight side by side, they would be unstoppable. Let’s not mention if Leto was able to gain the loyalty of the Freemen, they would be juggernaut of power.
Alas the Emperor took the easy and cheap option of siding with Harkkonans. 😵💫
@@23Revan84 You took the words right out of my mouth
Hell, if they wanted there could have been the potential for a triumvirate between House Corrino, House Atreides, and House Harkonnen. Think about it, if Paul's sister were wed to say . . . Feyd-Rautha when she came of age then they would have a Corrino Emperor, an Atreides Emperor in waiting, and House Harkonnen would have a strong link to the throne. Why do I suggest Feyd-Rautha? Because he's kind of the only Harkonnen who could be swayed and potentially changed from what the Baron made of him and he would likely be the most reasonable. He also probably hates his brother and uncle for what they did to his parents, as well as the Baron's "proclivities" involving the poor boy. Plus, with a Bene-Gesserit in the making with "the Voice" he could be kept in line quite easily if he were to be placed on the throne and the Baron deposed.
Because, if I am being honest, the Baron is the easiest to depose of the three. Shaddam IV had the Sardaukar and the lion's share (haha) of the naval and military assets, as well as the most powerful economic and political sway of the three. Atreides has the second most powerful ground forces and the leaders to make them great. Harkonnen doesn't have as much going for them besides their numbers and their cruelty. The Baron would honestly have the least defenders of the bunch and if Shaddam IV had the foresight to match up his eldest daughter with Leto, then their combined forces could attack Baron Harkonnen, end his bitter rivalry, and install Feyd-Rautha as a more amicable and more importantly *allied* Baron Harkonnen with a political marriage between the two families. Few would oppose it openly, as now the Emperor would be shown to have powerful newfound allies and his power would now be greater than it would have ever been. He'd have the two most powerful houses besides his own under his control until his passing. With time, he might have even learned of the Bene-Gesserit scheme because Leto or someone else could discover the conspiracy and summarily have the leadership slaughtered for their treachery. He might have even produced a male heir after that. They would have become virtually unassailable. There's plenty of ways the Emperor could have prevented his own destruction if he just hadn't been so shortsighted.
@@austinkersey2445 You're forgetting that there's all the other great houses and interstellar powers, that all had wills to power and schemes of their own. The Bene Gesserit alone would not tolerate such an alliance between Leto and Shaddam, and likely already had contingency plans for Leto's assassination if he maintained a trajectory of gaining more power, influence and popularity. Ditto the Spacing Guild
@@earlpipe9713 I know, which is why it remains in the realm of hypotheticals. The Bene Gesserit were at least 80% of the Dune universe's problems.
One of the things I'm most looking forward to is seeing just how Christopher Walken plays this role. He is an extremely good actor (when he wants to be). My hope is that he plays the role straight, and without any unnecessary affections. José Ferrero did a great job in the 1984 movie. I think Walken will understand that he needs to play the part in a deadly serious manner, and with gravitas, perhaps arrogance tinged with nuanced paranoia. The scene I'm most looking forward to is the climatic scene between Walken and Stellan Skarsgård as a terrified Baron. We might see some powerhouse acting on the screen. Wow, I can't wait.
"Bring in that floating fat man...the Baron". Lol, I couldn't help but add that.
@@A_Few_Thoughts Yup, I heard it in my head too. If you hadn't typed it, then I would have.
@@earlware4322 Yep. And Jose Ferrero delivers that line perfectly in the movie! It's very funny how he says it. Actually, it sounds like the kind of line that Walken would deliver, and it would be funny to hear how he actually would deliver it. However, we know of course that Denis Villeneuve would not (and probably could not) use that exact line in his script.
@@A_Few_Thoughts "Why have you brought me here?"
@@zombieshoot4318 Your highness, there must be some mistake. I never requested your presence.
Can't wait to see Christopher as the emperor
Same here. The new cast is the main reason why I'm interested in Part 2.
And how disappointed where you with the actual result?
The parallels between the Padisha Emperor and Herod the Great from the Bible are uncanny and perhaps, in some ways, intentional.
Another great show, young lady.
I always enjoy these Dune videos. I hope you’re having a great day, keep up the great work!
Love listening to the way you narrate and articulate the Dune lore.
Oh hell yeah Christopher Walken as the Emperor!!!
I'll never understand why he didn't join the two great houses himself by betrothing Paul and Irulan.
His grandchildren would carry his blood and their rule would be un-questionable.
Decisions out of fear are seldom the path forward.
The emperor is a jealous man. He doesn't like the popularity the atredies have at the landsraad
But the heir's name would have been Atreides and not Corrino.
@@sectorgovernor Form a new name out of the two houses.
@@semma88 Corritreides?
@@sectorgovernor Something something matrilineal marriage
As a person that had never read the books or watch any previous Dune movie, this is the best explanation for the conspiracy against House of Atreides. Thumb’s up.
Absolutely cannot wait for part 2!!!
Been really getting into dune because of your content, thank you! Happy N7 day!!
His most critical error was focusing on the prize and not on the trip to get to it.
The Emperor was the cause of his own troubles. He should have lived the rest of his life in peace and let the Duke Succeed him at the end of it. Great video.
The biggest disconnect for me was why Thufir Hawat didn’t take steps to hide the lethality of the Atredes legions from the Imperium. While it wasn’t fair to blame him for underestimating the massive amount he Harkonnens were willing to spend on assaulting the Atredes, there was no excuse for Thufir to not try to hide the lethality of the Atredes military. Serious blunder. While a crack down on security would have been bad for morale, it might have shaken some of the spies loose…possibly even Yueh.
Brilliant analysis of the CHOAM. Thank you.
3:03 It must be also noted, I believe in the original novel, that Shaddam loved Leto like a brother, and he hated the fact that fate and politics, dictated the nature of their relationship, rather than familial ties. Also, Shaddam considered Paul as a worthy husband for Irulan, and he admired Paul, as much as he had his father, Duke Leto 🙏🙏🙏🙏
Thank you for another nerdy day! Nerd and proud of it!
One good thing I love is a well written antagonist since they will drive a good story.
I am looking forward to seeing more Dave Bautista. Whether he is playing Drax, Avalanche or the Beast, he fills the screen with his presence. Who knew a former wrestler would become an exciting actor?!
Pro wrestlers **are** actors. Pro wrestling is scripted and choreographed, with opportunities for ad-lib. Wrestlers practice and rehearse constantly to give the audience the best possible show. Wrestling isn't a subtle art, but there are opportunities for nuance, which is kin to subtlety.
Actors who started in wrestling:
Roddy Piper
Dwayne Johnson
Dave Bautista
???
@@randybugger3006 To be fair, Roddy Piper really had only one role in They Live.
You forgot John Cena. He has become quite successful in acting too.
But Piper blew it out of the park in “They Live” still one of the greatest brawls in movie history!
Don’t forget Hogan and Triple H.
Due to their size and/or athleticism, quite a number or wresters also play bit parts in well known movies like Nathan Jones(Mad Max: Fury Road) and Robert Maillet/Kurrgan(Pacific Rim)
The Emperor made two errors in Judgement that I can identify. He misinterpreted his best interest, as his Empires best interest. He also assumed that a leader leads by domination most effectively.
Firstly, he damaged the Spice Trade to secure his placement. Twice. Once by giving a feckless sociopath Dune. As threatening a position as that is, it poses danger to the other houses by making Spice a zero-Sum calculation. Sociopaths reduce everything to zero-sum. Secondly by hinging the Spice on a plot to permanently cancel House Atreides. That’s not his Empires interest. It’s his interest.
Secondly, he assumed the primary means of stabile rule is to knock down every possible threat as harshly as possible. It’s not. Because the moment you weaken, two of those you’ve teamed up with will kill you. Instead, the most stable leaders engage in reciprocity most effectively. If threats arise then. You have to get all of your allies who you gain from, and who gain from you to attack you. Which is unlikely if the both know your strength, and your likelihood of having support. Critically, in this set up, Sociopaths tend to be unable to engage in reciprocity, and thereby cut their own throats before you must. This is not easy when competence is not highly selected for.
Or that’s my view. It’s what I’ve been thinking about lately, is why I mention it.
Ironically, if Padishah Emperor Shaddam Corrino IV had been more preoccupied with strengthening the image of the Imperial Crown and benevolently spending his energy, fortune, and efforts forging alliances with strong houses while benevolently attempting to raise up weak houses (thus fulfilling the chivalry in _noblesse oblige_ expected of rulers) instead of plotting to kill his father and seize power, he would have a rivaled respect among the Landsraad and had ample opportunity to COOPERATE with those like Duke Leto for a brighter imperial future.
Chris Walken will bring a power packed performance as per always...perfect choice.
His error was not killing Paul and allowing him time to organise his own retaliation
This video gives what to expect to see in an upcoming Dune 2 film.
A great analysis. Thank you!
Excellent video! Is there a chance you make a video about the infamous Honored Matres and their feud with the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood? I'd love to see one! Thanks
Yes it's on the list but it'll be a while
Yayyy!! Some Dune Cookies with lunch!!!!
Awesome!😊
Liked how one side is made to pay for the prvedege of destroying the other side in the origial novel
Amazing video that makes me dive and get lost in the lore. Thanks!
that is a very concisive summary of the power dynamics that lead to the events of the first "Dune" novel. It should be noted that the Bene Gesserit knew of this plan beforehand and agreed to it under the condition, that Jessica's and Paul's are spared. The secret plan of creating the Kwisatz Haderach, which Paul and Jessica are part of, was obvioulsy not mentioned to the emperor. The Lynch movie suggests, the spacing guild foresaw Paul acquiring powers that they would not be able to control, so the guild wanted Paul dead. Difficult situation for the emperor.
Both the carinos and harkonans greatly underestimated the firemen they thought they few on number which is what they had heard
Fremen
Christopher Walken is a brilliant casting choice for Emperor. But I also think Antonio Banderas would’ve been awesome. I don’t know why but I just reckon he’d would’ve nailed it too….
Thanks elaine.
I noticed that there is no mention of the Bene Gesserit sisterhood at all? I find that odd.
Is it possible that the Emperor was being subtly manipulated? Think about it.
The sisterhood is pushing for the Kwisatz Haderach to appear... And it was supposed to be something to do with both The Harkkonans and the Atreides.
Lady Jessica was supposed to have a girl to the Duke.
Lady Jessica is the product of rape by Baron Harkkonan.
Arrakis has already been seeded by the Bene Gesserit, there is even a Reverend Mother there! Fremen Sayyadina Ramallo.
So.... Maybe the original idea was that Lady Jessicas daughter was to live through the war on Arrakis and take a special Fremen husband and THAT paring would produce the Kwisatz Haderach.
He would be a monumental warrior, backed by incredible warriors who would control spice and therefore.... EVERYTHING.
Oh.... And he would have the ear of the Sisterhood... Because everyone needs guidance, right?
I think the Emperor was a puppet, dancing to the schemes of the Sisterhood
Can’t wait to see Part 2!!!!!🤗🤗🤗
And you know that old saying…….
‘Pride goeth before the fall’!!!!!
-Proverbs 16:18
I read all these things but it never really “clicked” how there was a purpose and connection behind every action the emperor took.
1: Pull out the Harkonnens, and convince them to attack the Atreides over an old grudge.
-Bankrupt the Harkonnens in the process to remove them off the political board.
-House Harkonnen also takes the political blame, shifting political liability away from the throne.
2: Kill the rising star Duke Leto, taking House Atreides off the political board.
-Set them up for failure on Dune first, so as to make his death more palatable to the other houses.
What the Baron doesn’t realize is he is also being played by the emperor just as Leto is. The emperor is jealously guarding his throne by removing two prominent houses at once, and tricking the Harkonnen’s to be grateful for it. In 60 years if the Harkonnen’s regain their footing don’t think for a moment that the throne wouldn’t just as easily take them out again.
Great video. I'm about to read Dune House Carrino.
Liked before I watched because I know I'll love it.
Well done video!
While I haven't read the book yet, all that I have read and heard about it says that the entire house Atreides besides Paul and his mother fell in one night with only minimal casualties suffered by Baron Harkonen and the only death suffered by the Sardaukar in the fight were from Duncan Idaho. Meaning that in the end Emperor Shaddam Corrino IV was worried over nothing. That while formidable, the war machine of house Atredies couldn't
Duke Leto was too noble to declare war on the emperor and the 5 legions of Sardaukar (150,000 members of the estimated 1.5 million) were enough to wipe them out.
still thank you for the information. Even if house Atredies was a paper tiger it was still nice.
I just started my journey into "Dune" this past weekend. I've watched the hbo movie and I've started reading the book. I just got past the chapter where Paul is talking to the family Dr and Paul read a passage from a book and he freaked out. I'm blown away by the depth of the world. I thought G.o.T. was deep and it is but Dune takes it to another level.
I will drop everything and go watch Dune 2 the day its on cinema!!!
What's so crazy is that Corrino, Harkonnen and Atreides were all related for centuries
I did picture the emperor as looking younger, due to the influence of the Spice. Shaddam was 37 when he ascended the throne, but would have been physiologically younger. He was 70 during the Arrakis Revolt, but must have looked younger. But it doesn't matter. That sort of thing doesn't process in our own society, so we have got to make anybody who lives far in the future or even 'twenty minutes into the future' (as TV Tropes puts it) age at the same rate we do.
I suspect that he will be implied to be 150+ years.
In the 1984 version, the navigator stated he was over 200 years old
These videos are really cool.
I think whether the emperor succeeded or not the time for his family to rule was going to be up sooner or later it was obvious that there were forces moving across the known universe that we're going to reshape it regardless of the schemes he and others had....
That being said I would love to get your take on the expanse series of books and the TV series....
Love your content
Thanks!
Thank you again for the support!
We have just folded space from Ix. - Yes?
Many machines on Ix, new machines. -Oh, yes?
House Harkonnen for life
Excellent video, thanks.
I wish all UA-cam commentators would use the word "empire" rather than known universe or galaxy or Cosmos since that is what they mean.
These are good cookies
The emperor has a fever!! And the prescription is more COWBELL!!’
Looking forward to seeing Walken
Great video, thanks for this. I'm wondering though how Denis has written the emperor to be. When I first heard Christopher Walken was cast, I was totally surprised and bewildered. I'm a huge Walken fan, there isn't a movie he was in that I haven't liked, if anything just because of his unique presence.
I've never in my wildest dreams thought of Walken being the emperor, it's almost as if someone was stoned as hell and came up with the inspiration out of the blue lol.
But nevertheless, I know that with Denis and Walken that this will be a very serious and nuanced affair, and I'm even more fascinated with what's going to happen in Dune 2 than ever before with his casting.
I'm reallllllllllly looking forward to Dune 2, nothing comes close to my anticipation of this movie next year.
I wad also intriqued (and a little confused) by casting Walken as the Emperor. It'll be very interesting to see how he plays it. (I think that Jose Ferrar(?) did an amazing job in the '84 version. I know that I will be comparing the two performances, even if only subconsciously, while watching Part 2.)
I would expect a lot more cowbell in this version of the emperor.
I still don't understand how thus all solved the Emperor's problems. If I'm being honest, I'm not sure Duke Leto ever actually appeared interested in seizing the throne, making Shaddam's paranoia unfounded, but even if his plan had gone off perfectly, he'd still be surrounded by much shiftier Lords, who actually may have been seeking his power, such as Baron Harkonnen was, and he still didn't have an heir. This is the biggest flaw for me,as the Padashah Emperor had no real way to fix this. It would have been interesting to see what his next objectives were, assuming Harkonnen didn't just crush him, and take is crown.
Well explained
If Shaddam had allowed Paul to marry Irulan, he could have stayed on the throne till his death and his bloodline would of been preserved thru Irulan for future generations. But, he was jealous and petty and schemed with the Baron, which would end up destroying his house and the Harkonnens. Also, the golden path wouldn't of been followed and Mankind would be obliterated. The story played out the only way it could have to preserve humankind...so in that regard Shaddam helped save humanity indirectly. :)
I wonder how much of what happened is the direct consequence of manipulation by the Bene Gesserit. Maybe they needed the emperor to fall.
@@hdufort Agree with that...they desperately wanted the kwisatz haderach...but one they could control, and I think through him they wanted to control the galaxy. I think Shaddam was not really anyone they were all that interested in, his daughter was already a Bene Gesserit, and Shaddam was obviously a very flawed person. I truly think they thought he was inconsequential and would be removed when the 'controlled' kwisatz haderach... came forward....Paul obviously screwed their plans up because he could not be controlled...at all. so yeah...I agree with you, Shaddam was disposable.
I think the mentioning that leto was kin and a viable marriage heir to the throne is important. Only if shadam had pursued that option may have saved his house from decline. Yet it seems his stubborn desire to grip to power was his downfall. Just imagine a timeline of the combined strengths of atreides and carino could've accomplished
Imagine a Dune ongoing series where Christopher Walken portrays all of the main Male Characters for the first 2 Novels Worth of episodes. With the available technology this can be done, from a plump to a Guant Walken and all the Walkens in-between. Plus CW is no slouch in acting or action.
The way he looked at this Ducal Signet Ring…, it was your birth right… he’d be damned if some Harkonnen was gonna get their greasy pale hands on it.
I like to think that from the machine perspective of Dune the corrino family just was like caesar from planet of the Apes, when was the first family rebeling against them on the buttlerian jihad.
Listening to the BG.
Thanks 🤓🍪! ❤
If you've ever gazed into a mirror, that is Padishar Emperor Shadam Corino IV
I often gaze into the black mirror. We exist as an amalgamation of life.
Thank, great as always. :)
So, maybe Leto has some less savory qualities that just go mostly unnoted, but he seems like a good, fine, and upstanding man, so why was he building this army? What were his plans for a force of Sardukar analogs, but via the power of friendship, and why were these forces known of, to the wider Imperium? What happened to them? Maud'dib typically seems to use his Fremen warriors, such as the Feydakin, in his efforts; if I ignore Gurney, and Duncan, we don't seem to see too many Caladan Leto troops. Obviously, I'm assuming most of them got wiped out by the Harkonnen, and Sardukar, attackers, but still, if they were so important, it's odd they don't seem to make it even halfway through the book? Was Leto gunning for the throne? Hoping to set up Paul for the role? Was he actually aware of things in a way that told him the Emperor had to go?
Thank you
The spice must flow!
Great day, I found another video.
Just in case you didn't see it, you can easily scroll through all my Dune Lore videos by using this playlist: ua-cam.com/play/PLj7gntrq3FeJHrNzjDK-JiKol2HZa86hc.html
I want a scene where the Emperor gives Paul his father's watch....
I got that..... :D
The story of the Emperor Shaddam Corrino IV's rule of the Imperium told through the Dune series and subsequent House Corrino told of the emperor's constant scheming and plotting. Shaddam was so cruel that he murdered his own father in order to inherit the throne. But, the main reason for House Corrino's downfall wasn't just the defeat by Paul and the Fremen. It also greatly had to do with Shaddam's use of his military terror troops. The Emporer would dress them up and march them in parades and military formations. As Shaddam's years on the throne proved, he was a weak and ineffectual ruler. He was very distrustful of Duke Leto Atreides and saw the Duke as the one true enemy to his continued rule of the Golden Lion Throne.
Everything must change; Nothing lasts forever. Even stars eventually burn out and disappear.
We don't know how much we don't know
Christopher Walken fans should check out "The Dogs of War". Bone chilling performance.
The most critical error was not seeing the atreides as a blessing rather than a curse. He should have saw them as a benefit rather than a threat because he could have easily set up a marriage arrangement. That way he would have a legitimate male heir on the throne. The atreides would have been a very powerful Ally combining their armies. No force in the Galaxy would have been able to stop them but no he chose arrogance and pride.
To hold on to his power rather than seeing something as a benefit rather than a curse.
Can you please make video on official lore of House Ordos ?
Thanks for the suggestion! I'll look into it. I imagine most of the lore is in the Encyclopedia
Christopher Walken will be reciting dialog as emperor shaddam Christopher Walken in dune. I anticipate a brilliant perfomence by the always watchable Christopher Walken
I may stand alone in this but Dune has never given me a sense of scale of the rest of the universe. We only ever see a handful of people in a scene, save for a few action cuts. Where are the cities? What do people do in these cities. What would be one's life journey to end up as a fighter in the Atreides military?
In a lot of ways, Dunes characters or universe never gets the depth that you get in other franchises. And that may be why it never took root, cinematically, the way other franchises have.
Don't get my wrong, I love it. And I know it has some thematic choices (great man theory, story focuses on elites and not the common man, etc.), But even so, you get the sense that these elites exist almost entirely apart from their subjects. On the planet of Caladan, we barely got a sense for the palace, let alone anything beyond it.
It looks like it's just a bunch of dukes and emperor's ruling a vast, empty, domain.
I know the goal is to begin developing Dune as a connected universe. Hopefully we get to see more of the actual universe this is all taking place in. Because for now, it just seems like a space opera with very heavy religious overtones.
Arrogance and Narcissism, led to many errors on the Emperor’s part.
I don't think the Emperor's plans were flawed unto themselves. The Bene Gesserit are the ones that advised him to make plans against the Atreides. Even if the Emperor didn't personally go to Arrakis to deal with The Baron, Paul still had the upper hand when he threatened to destroy the Spice with his family's nuclear arsenal.
I like Walken; he's very good at playing certain kinds of characters, but I don't think this is one of those kinds. I think he'll mess it up.
Is it... CONFIRMED... that's he's being played... by... Christopher... WALKEN? That's... cool.
The Emperor's greatest mistake was being aware of prescience and not exploiting it. He knew the Spacing Guild had it, and he should have taken measures to duplicate it or counter act it. How could you know it's possible to see the future, and not devote everything to developing that ability.
The Emperor played the game well, but he got played better. First by the Baron and then by Paul
...Is walken gonna do the voice tho?
Shaddam should have acted quicker to marry Irulan to Duke Leto. Even though the Dukes love for Lady Jessica was well known it was not a marriage. Acting early enough in Shaddam could have secured his own line with the child of Leto and Irulan that is assuming Jessica's love for Leto would permit that. But I think we can assume the Sisterhood would have stepped in HARD here and demanded Jessica take a back seat to Irulan. Both were trained Bene Gesserit they would have obeyed any orders about succession and children
Yeah, I always wondered why the Emperor didn't offer Irulan to Leto a long time ago. It would surely have secured House Carrino from any plots by the Atreides. Especially if Shaddam felt about Leto as mentioned in this video.
Sorry, its been decades since I read the original novels, but I don't recall the Emperor being that fond of Leto. I know that the sisterhood had other plans for Leto's bloodline, marrying an Atreides daughter to a Harkonnen heir. Though nothing would have been jeopordized by a union of houses Carrino and Atreides...🤔
The Bene Gesserit had their own agenda : they were hoping that the Kwizatch Haderach was about to emerge, and wanted him to become Emperor by marrying a Corrino princess.
20k years in the future & we're back to emperors & royalty? That's the biggest irony to this sci-fi story.
Why, it's actually cool.
The Spice must flow...
Shaddam the IV greatest mistake is thinking status, power and the tangible/intangible can last forever.
He brought his own end.