Ukraine War Upd. EXTRA (20240712): Duty of Rescue, Moral Perfectionism, Appeasement, & Blaming NATO
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Here are some extra nuggets concerning the war in Ukraine.
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0:00 Start
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Maps often used:
War Mapper: / war_mapper
JMSP: earth.google.com/earth/d/1TbW...
I was up at 6 am and watched 2 of todays jp videos, then 2 at work (or maybe even 3) now im home and hes STILL at it. He surely out works me. Thanks so much JP. The energizer bunny of content creators and a true champion of Ukraine.
😂😂😂
Congratulations on the ATP Distilled. What an honor. Johnathan, you have to be the hardest working, most prolific, Ukraine support channel. I never pass up your notifications as a "watch later." I admire you immensely and wish I could do more financially to support your vital work.
Thank you very much!
This will be a goldmine for historians in the future
I fekin love it here. Great work team. Thanks JP.
Great to have you here
“I am a man of peace. I believe in peace. But I do not want peace at any price.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Same.
Fantastic that your gems are indexed! A brilliant marketable service. Wish the author much wealth from it!
Very, very cool work
Ukraine's, Just Stop Oil, is the ultimate charity.
17:20 My grandfather was a wise man who told me that whatever I do, to do it well, but to never let perfect be the enemy of good.
He didn't call himself a philosopher... RIP grandpa 🥲
wow ,thats great, ill be able to copy and paste arguing with trolls
That's brill! The next step unleash the ATP AI bot on the trolls and yoo can sit back and enjoy the show hehe
@@bennie_pie if you are the guy who is responsible for archiving . fantastic work ..if you could achieve that i would tip my hat to you sir .tho i do get a laugh antagonising the trolls
I checked out "Distilled", amazing to see all the articles laid out in that format.
. . . "Millions of bullet points, talking about millions of bullets " ! . . .
Jp, you are a force multiplier for the greater good.. ;)
I absolutely agree. I've always said that the people who constantly strive for more or perfection will never be happy.
You have to do the best that you can and be happy with the small, simple things in life, the things that you can control.
For example.. I gave up eating animals because I moved to the countryside and wanted to talk to the cows over the fence without feeling guilty. I said, "Right, if we can survive for a month without meat, we can survive forever.
I'm still not searching for perfection but happily surviving and doing my best 10 years on.
I always try to do my best in everything I put my mind to.
I have learned that you have to try not to hold on to anger because it will make you old and bitter. ❤
❤
I strive for perfection and am happy. They aren't mutually exclusive. Perfection is a goal, and happiness is a state of mind.
@sirsmeal3192 I do apologise, I worded it wrong. I should have said everyone I've ever met.
You're right, happiness is most definitely a state of mind. ❤
Have you ever played the game Abe's oddssey? You possibly should.
Johny ❤
ATP distilled is amazing...........Thank you!
I'm glad its working for you! Thank you, it was fun putting it together - of course it helps having JP's great content to work with!
I don't have the answers Jonathan. I know I care about Ukraine.I don't do social media. I have conversations with my friends and share my knowledge. I'm following the principles Stoicism and trying not to raise my blood pressure. Cheers 🍻
I quite enjoyed that jaunt through the meadows. Thanks JP!
'Perfection is an absolute that cannot be achieved by our imperfect species. Thus, it is better to manage and maintain the flaws of man on an ongoing basis.' 'maintain' does not mean 'keep' here, but do maintenance instead - improve incrementally.
I read something like that in a Science Fiction Novel in 2007, and it impressed me deeply. I think this a good way to handle perfectionism in general.
Change and relativity though, could any perfect species even be perfect? "Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there's nothing left to take away" Little Prince
@@chrisj4236 Perfection, like 'the Ideal', is just a scale to measure one's achievements against. It is by definition not reachable.
There is the Duty of Rescue and the religious equivalent, the "sin of omission," which is referenced in the Bible numerous times. This is a good point. Maybe Trump should read his own "Trump" faux leather bible. He is such a horror of a human being. It would be wonderful if people would strive for moral excellence and put forth as much effort toward that goal as they do toward religious zeal. Humanity would be much better off for it.
Well said
Totally agree. Unfortunately I think humans have an idol and hero worship tendency which probably comes from the evolutionary need for our species to follow the tribal leader for safety and prosperity. Moral excellence doesn't advance a person's position in society.
Hey, hey, Jon & Team. You are too harsh when you say you are talking nonsense, that seldom, if ever, happens. The perfect is the enemy of the good. Russia mist fail in their bid to overpower Ukraine, even if it means our end.
Jonathan I love your analogy about the woman getting robbed. And how countries are not doing nothing to help that woman. What if that woman was getting robbed by someone with a machine gun would you still run up and save her knowing that it might get her shot and yourself
I guess the machine gun isn't the greatest analogy if it's standing in for nuclear weapons, because for the robber to fire the machine gun the robber would be perforated by another machine gun that is trained on him.
@@agh0x01 but that's the thing United States has already said they won't nuke back only conventional means as a response
@@jamieallen3083 are you sure that the USA have said that they would not retaliate if, say, the United Kingdom or Germany were nuked?
Thanks Jonathan great work very interesting take care 💙💛
That ATO stuff. Very well done. Love it. 😊
🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦✌🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦
Thank you! It kept me out of trouble hehe
Also, totally agree about moral perfectionism. It's a mind trap that most humans seem to fall into, because we like everything to be black and white.
Just, WOW, Jon. I loved this video. I so enjoy when I have abstract thoughts but can't seem to sort out how they all fit together, and then someone comes along and in an hour covers these thoughts, strings them together as well as sorting out the morality which is often the part I struggle with. I thank you for this video and analysis, I now don't feel like I'm the crazy one in the room. Captain, My Captain.
Maybe we're all crazy together
Riding with Biden! 😎
Go Joe and NATO!
@@johncromwell2529 There is no safe option at this point. It is Biden or losing our democracy.
ATP Distilled is going to be brilliant for providing receipts , i've just bookmarked it in my browser ❤
Glad you like it! Will be adding JP's sources in at the bottom of the summaries soon too!
Thank you Jonathan ❤ Benny ❤ Love to all ❤
I Love the ATP Distilled concept! My eyeballs are very sensitive to light though and don't know how to get darkmode. Is it possible? 🫂 ❤
Dark mode -in the top menu bar, right hand side should be a moon (or sun) icon to switch between light and dark mode. That's on a desktop/tablet version of the site. I've just realised that it's missing from the mobile version of the site though - oops! I'll fix that. Glad you like the concept and thank you so much for the feedback!!
@@bennie_pie Brilliant! I love it. Thank you so much 🫂 ❤️
Brilliant work by BenniePie, a really useful resource, top man 🔥
Thank you so much!
Morality. I often watch shorts on Funker 530. One thing has become vividly apparent to me when watching these videos. Rarely , if at all do Russians stop to help their wounded comrades. Ukrainians however seem to do everything humanly possible to help, treat and recover their wounded, even at the risk of endangering their own lives. This also falls into both 'Duty of Rescue' and 'Moral Perfectionism' parameters but at a much more personal level. We can therefore conclude that Ukrainians place a much higher standard of human morality and regard for human life than Russians do.
funker 530 is a great show ,the guys that do it , are way too serious for me but even so a great shpw
Ukrainians are unique. I am glad they exist.
Such vulgar Nationalismus.
Awsome analyses, JP! It seems so easily understandable when u explain abt the drowning person and the stealing of yr nabours 1. floor. Now also u been a bad person, therefor yr friend clearly will look for another person to hang around. It is all so f'n obvious. I've started to use the first two examples in discussions already. Will do the third when confronted abt NATO expanding. - That is really a moskov narrative we need to stop. Onward I go into the battle of words! Slava Ukraini! 💙💛
Saving lives includes not putting those lives into a hellish existance...
Brilliant video as usual, thank you ❤
Great work, JR! You are a superstar!
Re the issues Mitch raises, I agree with him 100%. To put it roughly in Kant's terms, which is the greater moral imperative: avoiding war or defending justice, the right to freedom and self-determination, etc? If Britain and France had failed to declare war against Germany in 1939, probably all the Jews in central and eastern Europe would have been exterminated. I'm not saying that this war and WWII are identical, but isn't the basic principle the same?
Finally, all this talk about ending the war in order to save lives is either naive or outright disingenuous. What is ignored here is what will happen to those Ukrainians who continue to resist, or wish to preserve their cultural heritage if peace is suddenly declared? You can be sure that they will be politically persecuted, jailed, and even killed by Putin and those in his regime. While the deaths of Ukrainians will lessen if the war ends now, they will not stop entirely, and they will occur mostly behind closed doors. Also, what happens to the Ukrainians if Putin decides to use them as cannon fodder in his next war?
Lastly, someday I hope to get one of my comments highlighted on JP's videos, but as JR and Mitch have demonstrated, the competition is fierce! Maybe someday... 😅
I'm sure I've talked about yours. Indeed,I definitely have because I've mentioned your name multiple times
@@ATPGeo I'm good. Just having a little tease!
Always aim for perfection and learn to accept losing for the value of the lessons it teaches.
Looks like an ideal set up with the AI collaboration. Glad you're happy with it. And, yes, gorgeous picture !
Thank you, I'm glad it's been well received - there's a few glitches I need to fix and some functionality that need adding, so hopefully will prove to be useful for people!
The free world and American voters are worried and have an important question for Joe Biden, Jake Sullivan, Olaf Sholz and Donald Trump, about their controversial positions on Ukraine. ‘If the USA and Germany were invaded and their citizens found themselves under constant missile attack by a powerful enemy, with many cities destroyed and great loss of life’. 1. Would Sullivan and Sholz, refuse to launch missiles at the enemy launch sites in fear of escalation? and 2. Would Trump be willing to hand over Alaska and the state of California as a trade-off for peace????
Hi Jonathan, I think I heard you say something in earlier video than made me wonder if you might be vegan or tending in that direction. Personally, I am a lapsed vegan after being fairly strict about it 22 years. I now consume free range eggs and dairy cheese again, although I still support the movement and would like to get back on the vegan bus at some point. For me I currently have a health issue and a very busy work schedule that made it difficult to get good nutrition on a strict vegan diet.
Also something of an armchair philosopher who would probably agree with you on your idea of Heaven.
Kia kaha from NZ once again!
The French have a specific law, which carries a significant penalty, allowing serious charges to be brought for non-assistance to anyone in danger. I'm not sure that many other countries are that explicit or based in law, rather than through moral obligation?
congrats on the new site, now you need your own ATP distilled whiskey.
Thank you JP. Congratulations to You & the Team on APT Distilled.
“There is no instance of a nation benefitting from prolonged warfare.” - Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Let Ukraine strike back, and they could save lives, restore their territorial integrity & the right to self-determination - and bring Russia to its knees. What's not to love?
Thank you!
@@bennie_pie Lovely innovative concept
Questioning Liability ....The Good Samaritan Rule , If You Do Not Acknowledge Them Your Not Responsible.... IF You Say Are You Alright? Now You Must At Least Call For Help.....I Now Bring Up The Budapest Memorandum , America , England , North Ireland , AND RUSSIA Promised To Protect Ukraine AFTER They Gave Away Their Nuclear Capability.......Another Treaty Being Ignored ??
Gross Negligence Manslaughter ,,,i think is the description you are looking for
Wait there is AI JP?
Ding crazy world🤪
JP you are programming AI with your ranting….Brilliant!!! 😅😅
Johnny 5 is alive!
👋🏼🫶🏼🇺🇦🇬🇧
Morning JP 👍😊
I had a silly thought, could the ai be used to discredit Putin anonymously? And maybe Orban?
So just wondering; can we work out your best tea you have had from AI used for ATP distilled? Do I break the search if I search for tea?
On serious note; I think I have watched all of your videos and keep up the good work. You are one of the channels I goto for daily Ukraine news coverage.
To answer your question re searching for tea - yes you absolutely can and nope you definitely won't break the search this way - however knowing how the search works would be to your advantage, and to help you in your quest to find the greatest ATP cup of tea there has ever been, keep an eye on the search page as later on today there will be a tea themed explainer to demonstrate how the ATP distilled hybrid search works. (you did ask!)
The AI has been specifically instructed to include any mentions of tea by JP in it's system prompt!
"If Jonathan mentions cups of tea include it (because tea is important to every Brit including Jonathan, and so is humour!)."
I want to party with all of the cool guys and gals ❤ 🌌
I'm ready!
Me too!!
Does Pareto's rule work in moral perfectionism as in business-the 20-80 rule?
Arguably, yes, but being imperfection leaves one open for charges of hypocrisy, and the effects of that need to be factored in to the calculus. My belief is that perfectionism will always produce worse outcomes than a measured approach.
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I am vegan too. For ethics. And it is often difficult to decide what is best to do. And purist vegans are often pretty obnoxious.
If everyone just does what they can when they can without stressing too much it will be enough for everyone,
The answer is that it depends.
Sup bois
Distiledl search results should have dates
A date filter is on my list - you're absolutely right. My plan is also to also take a set of search results and submit it to the AI for further analysis (e.g discuss the data with the bot) or turn them into a table of data, or if you wish produce an another output e.g. a written summary, a timeline or whatever else. At the mo the search screen is very simplistic, and needs a redesign. It is limited to 50-100 results max. I will remove that restriction once I know the server is stable.
@@bennie_pie Even better, I just meant the results show dates of the videos :)
@W_Bin They show the video upload date on 2nd line
@@bennie_pie Duh how did I miss that? Soz
I made a maths error. How many people were citizens of the Soviet Union when Ukraine supplied 40 per cent of GDP
I understand moral perfection and when is enough but this also strives away from the imperfections of being human and when is not enough. There's a balance which is wrong the correct answer is always slightly of balance otherwise you are stuck on a fence. The common good is not always the right good then there is always the question what is right and what is good, nobody talks about the common right.
Isn't waiting to end the war in Ukraine consistent with not allowing immigration reform until he's reelected?
I support Ukraine and regularly donate to various causes but just regarding the baseball bat V burglars analogy isn't the application of similar logic to the war more complicated because it involves many men being compelled to fight by the state for the benefit of the state/their countrymen rather than themselves? You may die so the state might live regardless of how you feel about it.
It would be a bit like you being expected to stand up and be injured for the bloke down the street rather than for your own property.
Also regarding the Trump "peace plan" I suppose to steel man him his argument would likely be he needs access to the levers of state (or at least presumptive future access) to be able to apply the required pressure to both warring parties to end the conflict.
Just food for thought, thank you as always for your content!
Analogies can only stretch so far. Thank you very much for your kind support
9:31 - the next paragraph?
I would argue that the US, UK and rest of the world created the Ukraine situation by lies enabling RF to control the UN. Not the strongest legal argument for a legal duty to help Ukraine. But a pretty strong moral argument for fixing the UN - which would then help Ukraine, and far more effectively as it has power to take unlimited steps.
Wait a minute!
I thought you said if you don't you can't because if you could you would?
Do the best you always can you always can give without killing your own economy or your own people
NATO , USA have been passing the pond all the way through and before it started.
As for Jainists , I always liked the parable of the Monk & the mosquito / lech , I am sure you know it , end of the story is lots of mossies / leaches & no monk .
Ending wars does = climate change , the climate damages from just making weapons is horrendous let alone using them
As for being Vegan , a bit of a long shot to counter MS although MS is a very broad spectrum .
I have no objection to Veganism as I eat at least 90% friuts, vegggies , nuts & pulses as I grow most of what I eat .
Just so long as the vegans are happy to mine human excrement to return the minerals to the plants
I am yet to find a vegan who is happy to do this in fact it always seems to repulse them which only goes to show they have no understanding of the nutrient cycle which is why proper science teaching is essential .
Doesn't repulse me. Seems a very good idea to use human sewage to restore the soil. It won't be raw sewage, it will be well rotted stuff. This was done in the past. Also you can use well rotted manure from stables, rabbit and guinea pig cages with leaves and vegetable waste. No actual need for animal dung at all really.
@@carolwilliams8511 Well if you are a Vegan you are the first one who seems to have an understanding of the nutrient cycle although you might not quite be up to scratch .
It is not a case of you CAN use it. It is a case of you MUST use and that goes for urine as well .
Currently we grind , digest then roast phosphate rocks to get the phosphorous we need to grow our crops, in particular grain crops and 95 % of that ends up in the waterways one way or another .
Every stage of the processing of phosphate rocks is highly polluting yet this is always ignored in pollution / climate change debates and of course every step generates a massive amount of heat and you must keep it in your head, it is not CO2 that is the problem it is the HEAT ENERGY we create being released into the atmosphere and it not being allowed to leave as fast as we generate it .
CO2 is a minute part of the problem as we will find out in 10 to 20 years when we have decarbonized as much as is humanly possible and the problem is still getting worse at an exponential rate
Australia has given 250 million what are they going to buy with it I'd like to know
Does the AI thingy take out the rants? I quite enjoy the rants.
Nope. It will often refer to them although is quite polite and professional when JP goes off on one - although it has been known to quote him verbatim for some of his more colourful moments! The AI has been prompted to include the rants, jokes, tangents, cups of tea as they are part of the appeal of the channel!!
But not all UKRAINE PEOPLE wannt to fight , some leave , some forced to fight & other
Question is do they want, again, to be ruled by the kremlin? I doubt it. What is rusky mir except oppression and tyranny?
Duty to rescue: so Western leaders can be said to be responsible for deaths in Ukraine when they've dithered and refused to help where they easily can.
In which countries can they be later prosecuted?
The problem is not all of Ukraine has the will to fight. They had the wheel at the beginning but people are fleeing and not coming back to fight. They should not lock down the border better at the beginning at least for men
Very good. You could have used the example of Hitler; woul it be better if we let him have what he wanted? The war costed millions of lives.
Such a shame I won't ever use that resource. Afters this mornings horrid display I am out.
I've tried to message you on Facebook but it's not working
What's up?
Coming back for more is a bad argument. Ukraine is practically a de facto member of NATO right now, with mutual defense agreements from many powerful countries. So, in the event of Russia returning for more, Ukraine would arguably be in an even better position than it currently is. Deterrence is effective, and it works. You don't have to wage perpetual war until your demographics completely collapse to win a war. There are alternatives and just instisting on fighting the Russians for a long time is disastourous for Ukraine just imagine how much debt they have racked up right now. And the demographic catastrophy that Ukraine has to deal with after the war.
Proppa lefty 😂
Hey Jonathan wow dude 😂 have you been smoking something 😂😂
I don't believe in a "god" as such but I heard someone use the argument once that if god existed then why doesn't he end all suffering on earth..
And the counter from someone else was, god does exist but god cannot end all suffering on earth because if we didn't have pain, unhappyness and misery then we would never know the meaning of joy, happyness and pleasure. Or something along those lines anyway. It made a lot of sense to me.
This is the no such thing as darkness without light, good without bad
I would rather not have suffering.
@@carolwilliams8511 of course nobody wants suffering but I hope you had the saem eureka moment I had when I first heard about it. You have to think about it a bit. Of course it is easy at first glance to just say "I would prefer no suffering" I would prefer no war" but like mitch I believe quoted "War is terrible but it is not so terrible we should submit ourselves to absolutely anything our enemies demand from us"
So in the same way that sometimes war has to be fought to eradicate evil a world without suffering cannot exist.
It was more to justify why that argument cannot be used to dispel the notion that god does not or cannot exist though. JP said if there was a god up in heaven and he was looking down on earth and happened to notice the ukraine war one day, he would be a moral monster if he didn't decide to stop it.
But god if he does exist would not stop it. He gave man free will. Man must learn to be better and it is not up to god to rule and control us like putin does.
The main point is that if we never ever experienced suffering we would never strive to be better. Only by improving ourselves can we reduce suffering.
I for one believe we have completely overpopulated the planet which the planet cannot naturally sustain and eventually we will cause such bad climate change many billions of people will die as a result. That will have been our doing. Of course god could have come down to earth one day and sai right you lot, that's enough breeding this century. But god doesn't exist anyway.
So after a lot of rambling the main main point is that if people never ever experienced unhappyness which is hard to hypothetically conceptualize, you would realize that happyness would not exist either. Like it would exist but we just would not be able to quantify it. Because it would just "be" there would never be anything better or worse.
And that would ultimately also be a bit boring.
@@carolwilliams8511 another thing I should add is that all life eventually dies right? That is inevitable. Death will always be hard to deal with. It is a natural part of life. You cannot have life without death. So another thing to consider is would you rather never have anyone to have loved in your life, live on a deserted island all by yourself to avoid all suffering? Or would you prefer to have friends and loved ones knowing that one day you might lose them?
Whilst all the arguments are correct, there are a multitude of worthwhile causes to fight for so there is a need to select. How to prioritize for example the genocide in Gaza, black and brown people disproportionately suffering the effects of climate change, LGBT people suffering from bigotry and hate, British children living in substantial percentages under the level of poverty and so on.
Putin wants Ukraine because it provided SU with a disproportionate amount of it's economy, technology, materials, military, etc compared to it's population. It was 2nd only to Russian SSR itself.
The 5 Oblasts invaded, plus Odesa, contain around 90% of Ukraine's resources. Those areas becoming involved in EU-UKRAINIAN ASSOCIATION TRADE AGREEMENT, with the prospect of a prosperous Ukraine would have been a problem for a Dictator trying to keep his own people oppressed.
All the excuses Putin has given over the years have been pure propaganda. Without the lies Putin couldn't have destroyed the Constitution and changed the amount or lengths of terms as President. Got to have an enemy to brainwash the people, so enemies are invented. Invented as an excuse why Russia is kept from it's "destiny", which is whatever he can convince the Russian people it is. By lies, oppression, fear - whatever it takes.
I have been a fan for 3 years but you have turned your back on American democracy and any chance Ukraine had of future support
?
Democracy needed one voice to scream No yet the world stay😢silent and now Trump is laughing hiding and watching as Democracy last chance gets told he is to old he didn't do enough for Ukraine. Good luck with Trump
Yes but the person that's working in the NAFO truck, doesn't receive a big, fat cheque at the end of the year from UA-cam Jonathan
I don't think anyone at all receives a bit fat cheque from youtube, except perhaps the shareholders.
legend is nothing bro ... u are a celestial mythical entity that can make from a bliss of a water drop a universe and can colapse 3 or 4 heavens just for your pleajuse ..so legend mean nothing to you ,, please be careful with words ;)
Johnathan I do love your analysts but at times you do go off at the deep end and end up off the subject, I end up getting fed up and not carrying it on until the end
It’s a shame, but your rants get a bit boreung
you know. you can adjust the playback speed .,.
@@harold22774 Or read the AI summary!
Please do not bring God in to this
Death is not what God wants but he gave us free will, so every one will then regretted his action’s. No one is perfect, but admitting your sins in past actioned in other words repent and mean it
That will give you a blank canvas. But if you carry on doing that is wrong then there is no redemption
My first book was about how free will does not exist. So...
@@ATPGeoI agree it does not exist. Seems like a logical fallacy to me.
Hi Lloyd 🤗
OMG Benny ∏ has invented a RANT CONVERTER
😂 🥃
Rant to eternity!
@@johncromwell2529 😂 yes
love it.