Yep, I am on the verge of going back to ACC in the short term. The advantages are too large. And not to mention the added brake torque in general just from having the ABS turned on, never mind the ABS itself.
I love the game, but this has to change. I asked the question in Discord and response I got was they were seeking to add ballast to assisted cars in the future. Not sure that gets rid of the problem, but they are, apparently, trying to make the game more accessible and for controller players too. Irony is though, it’s going to turn people away. I won’t ever run assists in any ranked MP as would kill immersion for me, but know, as a consequence, I won’t be competitive either.
Yup, I also saw another guy on the community forum do a deep dive on this topic. He's also shown with data that the assist appears to give more grip than what's allowed by physics. He done full brake pressure testing at high speeds (so no wheel lock). The higher the assist level, the higher the g forces on deceleration. This also explains what I also saw spikes in g force under braking with the assisted run. I'll probably head back to ACC over the coming weeks as a result of this. Essentially the data shows that assisted drivers seem to get more braking torque.
@@GSSimRacing clearly a problem. My chat on the Discord group got muted by an administrator. Couldn’t respond after a few messages. I’m doing the same with iRacing, back there for me until resolved.
Something can be wrong physics wise, but in the end of the day these cars are suppose to be driven with assists, just search for real life drivers speaking about, everyone uses it, because it's faster. Same thing for GTs.
@@ebeninca These are game assists fella. GTEs, LMP2s and HyperCars don’t run ABS. You should probably have watched the creator’s video before passing expert witness. statement.
Great video Gary, they should really create a copy of the current events, but have one with assists allowed, and another with the same combo disallowing assists. That way everyone can register to what they want, if you want to use assists, you sign up to that event, you don't want to use assists, sign up for that event, if you dont wanna use assists, but decide to sign up to the assists allowed event, that's your own choice and you shouldn't moan about it. I'm pretty certain that in the beginner races there are more then enough players to warrant doing this.
Yes I fully agree. Given the backlash from the assist conversation, I really don't know why they are not doing this already. It was raised weeks ago and still nothing has been done and they are silencing any discussion about it on discord. So not great.
I will never use Assist in a Sim Racing game. What is the point in playing a Racing Simulation and using Grip Hack Assist. Whomever is Using these Assist in Ranked racing is Cheating. Bottom Line!!
Yep for simulation, using in game helpers is not good for ranked racing. For ranked, it's just not a level playing field. On the topic of assists and car control....not only was it faster but it was also so much easier to drive. I could be sloppy, the rear never threatened to break away under braking etc, wheel lock was almost no existent. It was just easy street.
Hope they fix it soon it's a sim after all things this make it feel more like a game if you know half the field can push so hard with no punishment of slight mistakes .
Yep there is little point in racing in the silver and bronze races if you value fair competition online. So the only options we have now is to struggle to gold and compete in the unassisted races. I am at gold, but I do think it is unfair for silvers who are actively trying to learn and race without the assists on.
@@GSSimRacing nice job , I'm only bronze 2 atm as I don't get that much time in the sim and my first 3 or 4 races my ffb was all over the place having to uninstall tiny pedal and do a pc clear out of sorts . Seems after the update and me doing that the ffb is the best I've ever felt and I'm doing well now to gain score so I'll be hopefully catching up soon and grinding to gold 🥇 😎
Very interesting. I think this is normal (not a bug or issue from LMU) : the ABS have 4 brake pedals (2 front, 2 rear) and a pilot have only one, so aids allow shorter time laps by using the optimized braking on each brake disk. Perhaps you should reduce the differences by tuning the brake bias at each corner (I precise I am not able to !)... ? After we can hope different rules to allow or not aids depending of the pilot ratings,... Again, great video, thanks.
good video Gary. Any "ranked" race should always be on an even playing field. If people are struggling then maybe LMU need to bring in Unranked races where people still get the chance to race online but can learn to get use to the car. But still defeats the fact, that as soon as some of these drivers get into Gold, they are just going to struggle all over again as they already developed the bad habits. LMU is meant to be the latest "simulator". Not the latest Simcade. Hopefully the devs sort this out. As the advantage is too much.
Advantage is crazy. Big discussion on their discord over this video, but their admins are putting on slow mode again and silencing people. That speaks volumes. Very sad to see.
@@GSSimRacing This is very sad, that Dan (or pieface as I like to call him) is on a ego trip on discord. Not only putting on slow mode, threatening perma bans for discussing it now. Sad fat txxt, we paid to test there game and are giving feedback to the devs. Now one of the biggest issues with the game and he is trying to sweep it under the rug. At least give a update on progress or something. Sorry I am commenting so much mate, just hoping to help the algorithm so this video gets out there more.
8 місяців тому+2
I'm really against banning aids, unless this on very specific top level series. Just slap a big weight ballast for those using aids, but we should allow people with gamepads, low end wheels, etc...to compete. For example, let's say stability allowed in Bronze, only low ABS in Silver to prevent catastrophic lockups (but allow some level of lockup), and no aids at Gold. Should be fair.
Banning aids vs not banning aids is one topic, the main issue though is the massive advantage it gives at the moment. Even low ABS setting for this test and the low stability control gave massive advantages. Not just lap time, but also ease of control. Mistakes are not punished.
Cheers for doing this Gary! Cant believe some think assists giving a advantage is acceptable in ranked racing. We might as well all put every assist on and not call this a sim if this continues
@@GSSimRacing For sure mate, haven't actually tried them myself yet but speaking to others, they are clearly a advantage. One of the top 10 guys commented on a video the other day, said even he found a little time using assists but not much. Imagine the people who are 5-8 seconds off the very top guys.
It depends on the trace. With abs you can brake later and longer. Without the abs, there was earlier braking and had to modulate a lot and modulate earlier in the braking zone to avoid locking up and rear spinning.
If they keep assists enabled for ranked races there should at least be a hp penalty or weight penalty or something similar for each menu assist that’s enabled that way there would be a tangible benefit to mastering no assists in a simulator. IMO it’s a pretty hardcore sim and the menu assists shouldn’t really need to be there but i understand the want for more accessibility for sales purposes but itit should be done in a way that doesn’t punish the ones who worked for their lap times, its just kinda more fair
Yes, the penalty needs to be majorly updated as currently there is a major OP braking behaviour, in addition to laptime gains, it also causes pile-ups in races due to the mismatch in braking performance. Running ABS gives more braking torque too, which could be a physics bug.
i only ever used assists when playing with a controller. As soon as i got a wheel, all assists off. Even the racing line. builds horrible driving habits that become hard to unlearn later on
Of course you are correct with the F1 simcade reference but at least they have it so assists off is faster than with, this is just silly. They need to see this video and make adjustments to what is allowed in online races...and soon! I bought this but i'm not really playing it much as yet, i much prefer AMS but i will monitor with interest.
If people want simulation in a game, then they should not run artificial assists and so on. I do think it can be that simple, broadly speaking. Exception may be controller players etc....so it can often be a grey area. They key is to remove the advantages.
@@GSSimRacing I agree mate, why play a sim then use what is essentially a hack atm. I don't buy into the pad excuse either myself. Play the MotoGP games and they are just as difficult getting on power and braking, I would argue they are even harder than car sims on a pad.
@@StarFox85 I will admit, I haven't tried any assists and I wont. I know there is enough evidence to say its quicker. I play sims for a authentic experience, running anything that gives you unfair grip or makes it easier is like using a aim bot for me is shooters. Why bother? I just cant understand why so many seem to be okay with this. Mind you, you look at how many are actually using assists and its clear they are just worried they will lose more than the second a lap advantage they get now. The devs are saying its to encourage players to race but it will do the complete opposite if its not a even playing field. People will go back to other games where people are not essentially hacking with the support of the devs.
@TypeRTeg i agree with u 100% I also drive without assists! But here the devs are suggesting it ..till they make the driving sensation more premium! Just some parameters fine tuning one could say! I drove yesterday with stability on low..no abs! I wasnt faster! Just a bit more confident when moving the steering wheel by also applying gas.. Im still lost for words thou!
Anything that gets mentioned there gets deleted. I've currently got a 24 hour time out ban on their discord for talking assists with others on there. They are now controlling people's speech too. Sad situation. Think I'll have a look at iracing again or rf2.
@@GSSimRacingRF2 is imo the best driving Sim, hence my excitement when the same studio releases LMU. I fear thay are making LMU some sort of SIM and arcade hybrid for all. RF2 has had the same online rank system since last Nov and is becoming popular, slowed a little with LMU. Unsure if assists are allowed as I've not noticed an obvious situation in 18 races. Might have to check after the LMU hullabaloo.
@@fingers68 Yeah I can agree, the physics are superb. It has really ignited the interest for me doing online ranked racing. I think once S397 sort this out and give guidance as to where they are headed with the sim, then most will decide to stick around or not for the competitive fix.
@@GSSimRacing They have just dropped patch#2 Weight penalties for using ABS, each class has its own weights for low and high level of ABS. If you can be arsed and have the time, a repeat of your study would be interesting to see. No other assist penalties but this maybe enough, the assist did seem to make braking power way above what the car is capable of.
I think the devs would want to make the game accessible as possible to anyone as the player numbers are not great, so maybe have assists available just in some intermediate lobbies. But it is early access so maybe ban assists in ranked on full release.
I think assists are fine on the Bronze races. But it is a game for cars that have no ABS and so on. So either we race based off this, or we water and muddy the physics. It is like buying fifa and wanting to play golf on there as we are crap at soccer games.
@@GSSimRacing no it's like buying fifa and being able to have passing assist which you can, we agree that assists are ok to start with so we all good. I just want more people to buy the game so that the devs get the backing, which we know could very easily not happen.
@@Breezy.m16 hopefully they do. I was online about 2 hours ago and there was no gold race active so logged back off. I literally won't do a beginner or intermediate race now. I regret doing this experiment in a way as it's making me play it a lot less.
What a shame. LMU graphics and sound are so stunning yet they feel the need to build it on a foundation of unrealistic arcade-like overlays and assists, basically falling in line with every other arcade style sim and that list is long. People spend thousands on their rigs. Why cant anyone release a true to life hardcore sim. People would gladly pay to dollar for it. 😑
has someone posted this on the official LMU boards? they need to see this I'm playing intermediate because advanced is mostly empty, so i'm racing handicapped because i want authentic racing
Those responsible at LMU stop discussions about this immediately. Threads are closed even if they are discussed objectively. In Discord you get a 24 hour ban if you discuss it. I think they themselves are embarrassed that something like this is even possible in a "simulation".
Hmmm. I dunno. It might be too early for a video like this. I tested this stuff a couple of weeks back and came to the same conclusion, but didn't talk about it because at this stage in the sim's early-access life, it could be needlessly damaging. I worry that in the short term, a dev-pressure video like this will do more harm than good.
It needs calling out as it is unfair in ranked racing. It also is dangerous. We have very capable drivers who are able to brake 20-40 meters later and this is leading to crashes and drivers needing to take avoiding action. I would argue that if there is concern it is damaging, then it needs calling out so it can be fixed. In early access, devs need all feedback, both good and bad. And if LMU wants to be taken seriously as a good sim title with a competitive online ranking system, then this needs to be sorted. Or, maybe limit aids to bronze level events so that people can still race and access the game.
Your comment is very contradictory. If it's early access how is it too early to bring up MAJOR issues like this that won't even be very complex to resolve?
@@hellobooom if I had my way and we had a huge player base, then all ranked events would be assists off and online unranked races would be assisted etc. But given that it's not that black and white, the devs are trying to balance player base with difficulty (as it is a tricky sim for newbies). To do this, they have to allow assists. And they're allowed in online ranked because this is the only online setup there is. Now in saying all of this (again if I had my way) I'd just ballast every car running assists. They should never be able to complete the same laptimes as unassisted drivers, ever (assuming same driver skill completing the same lap).
Awesome work ! Thx for giving a us a detailled analysis. I don't undertand why they are allowed, they remove the sim element (no lockups or car being unstable) while allowing to be faster.
For RANKED racing, it certainly needs to be looked at. The advantage is more than just laptime. It is so easy to drive by comparison too. Mistakes are not punished.
Those aids should be set to off for online races IF you have a wheel and pedals. It's a really dumb oversight on the part of the devs. But in the current climate I'm not totally surprised competence and skill being punished in the name of inclusivity 💁🏻♂️
I would like to see them banned in silver class races and above. Allow them in Bronze. They should be there to help users get up to speed with the game, not allow changing the challenge of the game and create an unequal playing field.
@@GSSimRacing I disagree. It causes more damage than good. I don't have the time to race daily. So I'm still in bronze and will stay here for a while. My pace however is not bronze. I've been sim-racing with a wheel since 2012, so I know my way around. What's annoying about it is I'm clearly faster in every part of the track other than the breaking zones where I see total noobs gaining 4-5 car lenghts on me back again (divebombing and shit). It's so frustrating and I've been taken out 3 times now (I'm just 6 races in), completely out of my control (once even knowing it can happen in T1 at Sebring went super wide to leave space on the inside - still got collected by some dumbass). The rules should be same for everyone with a wheel. Noobs need to be humbled, keep their heads down and learn instead of relying on some dumb ass cheat. Otherwise you're breading culture of no accountability and T1 heroe's. iRacing got this aspect right - the community needs to be policed in a way.
@@slatanek Yeah I do think that the strength of the aids is too much. I was about to resub to iRacing last night. The only thing putting me off was the low FFB and physics refresh rate of 60hz. I know they upsample it internally, but its still really poor. The benefit is fair racing of course.
Hey, yes it applies to all bronze and intermediate classes and the special events. To put it in perspective, I done a LMP2 race at Le Mans about 1 hour ago. The guy who won was running ABS on Max, Stability control and traction controls from the game menu. The guy who set the fastest lap (and out braked me with ease into the first chicane) was running stability control, and ABS assist. So these assisted are not "helping" new drivers entirely. They're providing advantages to already good drivers. Both of the aforementioned drivers had DR ratings of S1 and S2 respectively. So not newbies.
@@Freddy_Merckx it's in the results folder, inside of thd logs folder. The html files there, open and search for ABS. All users with abs etc will show.
In qualy i drive around 1.46.2 ..fastest 1.45.9. With no assist! But to race with 30 other cars with the whole sensibilities of the car wobbling around is just dog shit in my view! And giving more wing doesnt make the car more stable on top! Will try your settings to see if it is more enjoyable!
To make the car more stable you can make a lot of changes to setup. But they hypercars are powerful beasts. I sometimes find upshifting early csn help the rear. My quickest unassisted lap was a 44.9. But with assists after 3 laps I beat that by a few tenths, quite easily.
The top 5 guy commented on a video the other day and said it does give a advantage. If a alien is saying it is giving a advantage, it shouldn't be allowed. We all have to learn how to brake properly, no excuse for letting what is essentially a grip hack be used in ranked racing.
I was running low ABS in the test here. The advantage is fairly large, probably more-so on the Hypercars. Whilst maybe not totally foolproof, the difference is still huge versus no ABS.
Yep, I am not against assists outright, but at the moment they are giving a very large advantage to already fast drivers. And the effectiveness of them is ahead of what the standard brakes can give (or at least the data suggests this).
These settings are aimed at people like me who play racing sims with a gamepad, where it is impossible to have fine control of the brakes and counter steering, and it's okay to have that option. What is the point in having a proper setup (steering wheel and pedals) and using assists?
Yeah it is difficult to deal with. In a race I done an hour ago. P1 was running almost all assists. The guy with the fastest lap had stability control on. This was Le Mans where the P2 setup is quite twitchy. He took huge amounts of time out of me through porsche curves. He overtook me with ease. This was a DR rated driver of S2.
Devs have said time and time again, assists will be more balanced in the future, so the advantage is gone, why are people acting like this is the final version of the game and wont be changed
I don’t think assists are supposed to be allowed typically. Any chance that they might re-visit this and eventually disallow? Don’t they dis-allow assists for all other online multiplayer sim events?
Assists are disabled in the Advanced online races, but are available for all others. Imo they should just readjust them, instead of disabling them outright. Since GT3s will have build-in ABS soon anyway, they'll surely develop a better model in time
It will all be overhauled, devs have said so, it will be more balanced in the future, people are acting like it's final and won't be changed when it will be
The devs have said they will be looking at this, but it needs to happen soon imo. Other titles (iracing for example) don't allow it and even lock the camera to in car. That could be a success factor on their side. Ranked racing done one way, and one way for everyone....?
@GSSimRacing I think right now the player base is too small to divide everyone up, and their worries might be servers not filling up if there were races to suit all requests, I think we just need to give it time to mature and hope the game is successful, if it has a large playerbase, there will be something for everyone down the line, As much as I agree with what people are saying, I just think it too early in the games development to be worried about it, let thw devs do their thing, they said they will sort it 👍
@@davidmabbley9924 I just really think they need to fix it urgently. Like to turn on ABS and get the advantage of more braking torque, and the benefit of the assist itself is just nuts. Another guy presented a similar study on the forums, I came across it yesterday and he'd also proved the additional braking force, just by turning on the assists. The devs probably need to choose which main path to go down. Cater to sim racers or focus on an accessible game for the casual player.?
Go to your folder >user data > logs >results. In there, there will be loads of html files that will open in the browser. Once done, do a control + F and search for ABS. On that line, you'll also see all other assists being ran. Ignore the TC one, as I think this is fed from the cars own TC.
I'm running an AM4 Motherboard.. so I'm stuck with DDR4 ram lol 32GB. 4080 Super and 5800x3D. I'm curious if I had anAM5 Board if DDR5 ram would improve my Frame rate on triples. Oh well
As far as I'm aware, all the car classes in this game have driver controllable TC in real life. Banning it, or adding penalties for using it would be idiotic, as this is supposed to be a sim. Would you have it banned in GT3 races in ACC? or any other series that has it in reality? Raceroom adds ballast for using TCS/ABS where it doesn't exist in the real classes, which is as it should be. 397 need to change this, so that the sim reflects the real series: in-car TC, no ABS.
In rf2, as in real life, the use of abs and tc in cars worsens lap times. I'm not saying they can't be used because in real life these cars have those technologies. A car without a tc in the wet would go into the wall at the first corner. There must be a lap time penalty
Yep, it is purely the advantage that it is giving. TC is fine as it's onboard the car. But the artificial stability control and ABS helper from the game menu is not on the real cars, naturally. So it is those advantages that lead to laptime gains that need to be adjusted, especially in a ranked server.
there is no prize to those online races and you don't win any money, In my opinion you can still race and have fun.if you wanna use them you use , if not, nope. They were made for people with disabilities and for controller users that also have the rights to play and be a little more competitive and have fun
@@TypeRTeg you must have the right to spend a day fooling around with your controller and another with your SIM rig....... I agree that online from a certain level to the top, probably there should not be assists whatsoever
Why not just use the assist that are available? Become an actual driver. Its not an unfair advantage if EVERYONE has access to it. Why is it hard for anyone to understand it?
I am not against people using them online in general, but I am for ranked racing. The challenge is car control in its raw simulated form. The moment you add driver aids, this gets watered down a lot.
I suppose one could make the case for assist at the Bronze level ?, but surely once you move up to Silver the training wheels should come off
Yes, at Silver the assists should be blocked. The advantage on Hypercar at silver level is far too much.
Using aids at the novice level I could understand, but they have to take that shit from the silver level up or I'll stop playing it
Yep, I am on the verge of going back to ACC in the short term. The advantages are too large. And not to mention the added brake torque in general just from having the ABS turned on, never mind the ABS itself.
I love the game, but this has to change. I asked the question in Discord and response I got was they were seeking to add ballast to assisted cars in the future. Not sure that gets rid of the problem, but they are, apparently, trying to make the game more accessible and for controller players too. Irony is though, it’s going to turn people away. I won’t ever run assists in any ranked MP as would kill immersion for me, but know, as a consequence, I won’t be competitive either.
Yup, I also saw another guy on the community forum do a deep dive on this topic. He's also shown with data that the assist appears to give more grip than what's allowed by physics. He done full brake pressure testing at high speeds (so no wheel lock). The higher the assist level, the higher the g forces on deceleration. This also explains what I also saw spikes in g force under braking with the assisted run. I'll probably head back to ACC over the coming weeks as a result of this. Essentially the data shows that assisted drivers seem to get more braking torque.
@@GSSimRacing clearly a problem. My chat on the Discord group got muted by an administrator. Couldn’t respond after a few messages. I’m doing the same with iRacing, back there for me until resolved.
I'm still winning races without assists so Im good. But indeed troubling.
Something can be wrong physics wise, but in the end of the day these cars are suppose to be driven with assists, just search for real life drivers speaking about, everyone uses it, because it's faster. Same thing for GTs.
@@ebeninca These are game assists fella. GTEs, LMP2s and HyperCars don’t run ABS. You should probably have watched the creator’s video before passing expert witness. statement.
Great video Gary, they should really create a copy of the current events, but have one with assists allowed, and another with the same combo disallowing assists.
That way everyone can register to what they want, if you want to use assists, you sign up to that event, you don't want to use assists, sign up for that event, if you dont wanna use assists, but decide to sign up to the assists allowed event, that's your own choice and you shouldn't moan about it.
I'm pretty certain that in the beginner races there are more then enough players to warrant doing this.
Yes I fully agree. Given the backlash from the assist conversation, I really don't know why they are not doing this already. It was raised weeks ago and still nothing has been done and they are silencing any discussion about it on discord. So not great.
I will never use Assist in a Sim Racing game. What is the point in playing a Racing Simulation and using Grip Hack Assist.
Whomever is Using these Assist in Ranked racing is Cheating. Bottom Line!!
Yep for simulation, using in game helpers is not good for ranked racing. For ranked, it's just not a level playing field. On the topic of assists and car control....not only was it faster but it was also so much easier to drive. I could be sloppy, the rear never threatened to break away under braking etc, wheel lock was almost no existent. It was just easy street.
Hope they fix it soon it's a sim after all things this make it feel more like a game if you know half the field can push so hard with no punishment of slight mistakes .
Yep there is little point in racing in the silver and bronze races if you value fair competition online. So the only options we have now is to struggle to gold and compete in the unassisted races. I am at gold, but I do think it is unfair for silvers who are actively trying to learn and race without the assists on.
@@GSSimRacing nice job , I'm only bronze 2 atm as I don't get that much time in the sim and my first 3 or 4 races my ffb was all over the place having to uninstall tiny pedal and do a pc clear out of sorts . Seems after the update and me doing that the ffb is the best I've ever felt and I'm doing well now to gain score so I'll be hopefully catching up soon and grinding to gold 🥇 😎
The braking ia crazy with abs. great video and points Gary
Yeah the braking advantage is crazy. No wheel lock, added brake torque for the same pedal pressure....it is like a cheat code to be honest.
@@GSSimRacing absolutely
Very interesting. I think this is normal (not a bug or issue from LMU) : the ABS have 4 brake pedals (2 front, 2 rear) and a pilot have only one, so aids allow shorter time laps by using the optimized braking on each brake disk. Perhaps you should reduce the differences by tuning the brake bias at each corner (I precise I am not able to !)... ? After we can hope different rules to allow or not aids depending of the pilot ratings,... Again, great video, thanks.
good video Gary. Any "ranked" race should always be on an even playing field. If people are struggling then maybe LMU need to bring in Unranked races where people still get the chance to race online but can learn to get use to the car. But still defeats the fact, that as soon as some of these drivers get into Gold, they are just going to struggle all over again as they already developed the bad habits. LMU is meant to be the latest "simulator". Not the latest Simcade. Hopefully the devs sort this out. As the advantage is too much.
Advantage is crazy. Big discussion on their discord over this video, but their admins are putting on slow mode again and silencing people. That speaks volumes. Very sad to see.
@@GSSimRacing This is very sad, that Dan (or pieface as I like to call him) is on a ego trip on discord. Not only putting on slow mode, threatening perma bans for discussing it now. Sad fat txxt, we paid to test there game and are giving feedback to the devs. Now one of the biggest issues with the game and he is trying to sweep it under the rug. At least give a update on progress or something. Sorry I am commenting so much mate, just hoping to help the algorithm so this video gets out there more.
I'm really against banning aids, unless this on very specific top level series.
Just slap a big weight ballast for those using aids, but we should allow people with gamepads, low end wheels, etc...to compete.
For example, let's say stability allowed in Bronze, only low ABS in Silver to prevent catastrophic lockups (but allow some level of lockup), and no aids at Gold. Should be fair.
or just let the assists for players using gamepads and don't allow them for wheel users as they can identitfy what controller we are using
Banning aids vs not banning aids is one topic, the main issue though is the massive advantage it gives at the moment. Even low ABS setting for this test and the low stability control gave massive advantages. Not just lap time, but also ease of control. Mistakes are not punished.
@@mickaelrodriguez525 if there is way to do that, it would make sense, certsinly for ranked races.
That’s why I’m sticking with ACC till they fix all the issues in EA.
Cheers for doing this Gary! Cant believe some think assists giving a advantage is acceptable in ranked racing. We might as well all put every assist on and not call this a sim if this continues
The level of the advantage surprised me, I think it is more in Hyper cars due to how little grip they have anyway, especially on cold rubber.
@@GSSimRacing For sure mate, haven't actually tried them myself yet but speaking to others, they are clearly a advantage. One of the top 10 guys commented on a video the other day, said even he found a little time using assists but not much. Imagine the people who are 5-8 seconds off the very top guys.
The transition from breaking to no breaking or to gas..its just not that well refined yet ..hopefully!
It depends on the trace. With abs you can brake later and longer. Without the abs, there was earlier braking and had to modulate a lot and modulate earlier in the braking zone to avoid locking up and rear spinning.
If they keep assists enabled for ranked races there should at least be a hp penalty or weight penalty or something similar for each menu assist that’s enabled that way there would be a tangible benefit to mastering no assists in a simulator. IMO it’s a pretty hardcore sim and the menu assists shouldn’t really need to be there but i understand the want for more accessibility for sales purposes but itit should be done in a way that doesn’t punish the ones who worked for their lap times, its just kinda more fair
Yes, the penalty needs to be majorly updated as currently there is a major OP braking behaviour, in addition to laptime gains, it also causes pile-ups in races due to the mismatch in braking performance. Running ABS gives more braking torque too, which could be a physics bug.
i only ever used assists when playing with a controller. As soon as i got a wheel, all assists off. Even the racing line. builds horrible driving habits that become hard to unlearn later on
Yes you are correct. It is difficult to unlearn these habbits. When I came over from ACC I spent more time in the barriers than I did on track!
great work GS
Thank you. Just shining a torch on an important issue. 👀
Of course you are correct with the F1 simcade reference but at least they have it so assists off is faster than with, this is just silly. They need to see this video and make adjustments to what is allowed in online races...and soon! I bought this but i'm not really playing it much as yet, i much prefer AMS but i will monitor with interest.
Its a grip hack! No other way around it. People saying we can all use it should stick to arcade racers if that is there attitude.
If people want simulation in a game, then they should not run artificial assists and so on. I do think it can be that simple, broadly speaking. Exception may be controller players etc....so it can often be a grey area. They key is to remove the advantages.
@@GSSimRacing I agree mate, why play a sim then use what is essentially a hack atm. I don't buy into the pad excuse either myself. Play the MotoGP games and they are just as difficult getting on power and braking, I would argue they are even harder than car sims on a pad.
I didnt even know about that!
But it isnt that fun to wobble around the track!
Arcade simcade🤣🤣
@@StarFox85 I will admit, I haven't tried any assists and I wont. I know there is enough evidence to say its quicker. I play sims for a authentic experience, running anything that gives you unfair grip or makes it easier is like using a aim bot for me is shooters. Why bother? I just cant understand why so many seem to be okay with this. Mind you, you look at how many are actually using assists and its clear they are just worried they will lose more than the second a lap advantage they get now. The devs are saying its to encourage players to race but it will do the complete opposite if its not a even playing field. People will go back to other games where people are not essentially hacking with the support of the devs.
@TypeRTeg i agree with u 100%
I also drive without assists!
But here the devs are suggesting it ..till they make the driving sensation more premium!
Just some parameters fine tuning one could say!
I drove yesterday with stability on low..no abs! I wasnt faster! Just a bit more confident when moving the steering wheel by also applying gas..
Im still lost for words thou!
This needs changing, it's utterly ridiculous, get your thoughts on the LMU forum. I am sticking to RF2 online till this has been changed.
Anything that gets mentioned there gets deleted. I've currently got a 24 hour time out ban on their discord for talking assists with others on there. They are now controlling people's speech too. Sad situation. Think I'll have a look at iracing again or rf2.
@@GSSimRacingRF2 is imo the best driving Sim, hence my excitement when the same studio releases LMU. I fear thay are making LMU some sort of SIM and arcade hybrid for all. RF2 has had the same online rank system since last Nov and is becoming popular, slowed a little with LMU. Unsure if assists are allowed as I've not noticed an obvious situation in 18 races. Might have to check after the LMU hullabaloo.
@@fingers68 Yeah I can agree, the physics are superb. It has really ignited the interest for me doing online ranked racing. I think once S397 sort this out and give guidance as to where they are headed with the sim, then most will decide to stick around or not for the competitive fix.
@@GSSimRacing They have just dropped patch#2 Weight penalties for using ABS, each class has its own weights for low and high level of ABS. If you can be arsed and have the time, a repeat of your study would be interesting to see. No other assist penalties but this maybe enough, the assist did seem to make braking power way above what the car is capable of.
I think the devs would want to make the game accessible as possible to anyone as the player numbers are not great, so maybe have assists available just in some intermediate lobbies. But it is early access so maybe ban assists in ranked on full release.
I think assists are fine on the Bronze races. But it is a game for cars that have no ABS and so on. So either we race based off this, or we water and muddy the physics. It is like buying fifa and wanting to play golf on there as we are crap at soccer games.
@@GSSimRacing no it's like buying fifa and being able to have passing assist which you can, we agree that assists are ok to start with so we all good. I just want more people to buy the game so that the devs get the backing, which we know could very easily not happen.
@@Breezy.m16 hopefully they do. I was online about 2 hours ago and there was no gold race active so logged back off. I literally won't do a beginner or intermediate race now. I regret doing this experiment in a way as it's making me play it a lot less.
What a shame. LMU graphics and sound are so stunning yet they feel the need to build it on a foundation of unrealistic arcade-like overlays and assists, basically falling in line with every other arcade style sim and that list is long. People spend thousands on their rigs. Why cant anyone release a true to life hardcore sim. People would gladly pay to dollar for it. 😑
do a video on where to get a Motec system and how to set it up.
Not ignoring this mate. I'll prob get something together by the weekend on this one.
@GSSimRacing yeah, hero status . I'm 78 yrs of age -so step by step for one that wasn't born with a computer pre- installed at birth.
has someone posted this on the official LMU boards? they need to see this
I'm playing intermediate because advanced is mostly empty, so i'm racing handicapped because i want authentic racing
What I will be doing from now on is racing in gold races only. I think if more drivers do the same, they could end up putting on more gold races.
Im not gold yet dont race that much but thats the way to go
Those responsible at LMU stop discussions about this immediately. Threads are closed even if they are discussed objectively. In Discord you get a 24 hour ban if you discuss it. I think they themselves are embarrassed that something like this is even possible in a "simulation".
@@WarmRed77 I've just been given a 24 hour ban about 30 minutes ago. There's something about this topic that they really don't like.
The only problem is the gold schedule is very light right now. They need more gold races.
Hmmm. I dunno. It might be too early for a video like this. I tested this stuff a couple of weeks back and came to the same conclusion, but didn't talk about it because at this stage in the sim's early-access life, it could be needlessly damaging. I worry that in the short term, a dev-pressure video like this will do more harm than good.
It needs calling out as it is unfair in ranked racing. It also is dangerous. We have very capable drivers who are able to brake 20-40 meters later and this is leading to crashes and drivers needing to take avoiding action. I would argue that if there is concern it is damaging, then it needs calling out so it can be fixed. In early access, devs need all feedback, both good and bad. And if LMU wants to be taken seriously as a good sim title with a competitive online ranking system, then this needs to be sorted. Or, maybe limit aids to bronze level events so that people can still race and access the game.
Your comment is very contradictory. If it's early access how is it too early to bring up MAJOR issues like this that won't even be very complex to resolve?
@@hellobooom if I had my way and we had a huge player base, then all ranked events would be assists off and online unranked races would be assisted etc. But given that it's not that black and white, the devs are trying to balance player base with difficulty (as it is a tricky sim for newbies). To do this, they have to allow assists. And they're allowed in online ranked because this is the only online setup there is. Now in saying all of this (again if I had my way) I'd just ballast every car running assists. They should never be able to complete the same laptimes as unassisted drivers, ever (assuming same driver skill completing the same lap).
Awesome work ! Thx for giving a us a detailled analysis. I don't undertand why they are allowed, they remove the sim element (no lockups or car being unstable) while allowing to be faster.
100% Agree Julien
For RANKED racing, it certainly needs to be looked at. The advantage is more than just laptime. It is so easy to drive by comparison too. Mistakes are not punished.
Those aids should be set to off for online races IF you have a wheel and pedals. It's a really dumb oversight on the part of the devs.
But in the current climate I'm not totally surprised competence and skill being punished in the name of inclusivity 💁🏻♂️
I would like to see them banned in silver class races and above. Allow them in Bronze. They should be there to help users get up to speed with the game, not allow changing the challenge of the game and create an unequal playing field.
@@GSSimRacing I disagree. It causes more damage than good.
I don't have the time to race daily. So I'm still in bronze and will stay here for a while. My pace however is not bronze. I've been sim-racing with a wheel since 2012, so I know my way around. What's annoying about it is I'm clearly faster in every part of the track other than the breaking zones where I see total noobs gaining 4-5 car lenghts on me back again (divebombing and shit). It's so frustrating and I've been taken out 3 times now (I'm just 6 races in), completely out of my control (once even knowing it can happen in T1 at Sebring went super wide to leave space on the inside - still got collected by some dumbass). The rules should be same for everyone with a wheel. Noobs need to be humbled, keep their heads down and learn instead of relying on some dumb ass cheat. Otherwise you're breading culture of no accountability and T1 heroe's. iRacing got this aspect right - the community needs to be policed in a way.
@@slatanek Yeah I do think that the strength of the aids is too much. I was about to resub to iRacing last night. The only thing putting me off was the low FFB and physics refresh rate of 60hz. I know they upsample it internally, but its still really poor. The benefit is fair racing of course.
Does this advantage also apply to LMP2s and GTEs?
Hey, yes it applies to all bronze and intermediate classes and the special events. To put it in perspective, I done a LMP2 race at Le Mans about 1 hour ago. The guy who won was running ABS on Max, Stability control and traction controls from the game menu. The guy who set the fastest lap (and out braked me with ease into the first chicane) was running stability control, and ABS assist. So these assisted are not "helping" new drivers entirely. They're providing advantages to already good drivers. Both of the aforementioned drivers had DR ratings of S1 and S2 respectively. So not newbies.
@@GSSimRacing How can you see if other drivers have activated the stability control and ABS?
@@Freddy_Merckx it's in the results folder, inside of thd logs folder. The html files there, open and search for ABS. All users with abs etc will show.
@@GSSimRacing Thanks a lot! I will have a look.
In qualy i drive around 1.46.2 ..fastest 1.45.9. With no assist!
But to race with 30 other cars with the whole sensibilities of the car wobbling around is just dog shit in my view!
And giving more wing doesnt make the car more stable on top!
Will try your settings to see if it is more enjoyable!
To make the car more stable you can make a lot of changes to setup. But they hypercars are powerful beasts. I sometimes find upshifting early csn help the rear.
My quickest unassisted lap was a 44.9. But with assists after 3 laps I beat that by a few tenths, quite easily.
U were talking about breaking!
Not about power!
That is what i meant..sorry if i wasnt enough clear..
Even with tc the car wobbles around..
Hi, can you share your motec workbook for LMU please ?
I run ABS on low and you still have to modulate the brake. It's not completely foolproof.
The top 5 guy commented on a video the other day and said it does give a advantage. If a alien is saying it is giving a advantage, it shouldn't be allowed. We all have to learn how to brake properly, no excuse for letting what is essentially a grip hack be used in ranked racing.
I was running low ABS in the test here. The advantage is fairly large, probably more-so on the Hypercars. Whilst maybe not totally foolproof, the difference is still huge versus no ABS.
The difference between low ABS and no ABS is quite ridiculous. And then the difference in tyre wear, it's definitely too big of an advantage.
@@Ho3n3r yes, the problem is that it's not just an assist. It can literally take huge chunks of laptime off.
As a gamepad player I NEED that ABS. That's the only one that I use though.
If they'd just implement some actual Adaptive Trigger support, it'd be way more manageable, finding the perfect BB also does a lot though
People manage just fine on a pad playing the MotoGP games, I would argue being fast in those is much harder than this game on a pad.
Yep, I am not against assists outright, but at the moment they are giving a very large advantage to already fast drivers. And the effectiveness of them is ahead of what the standard brakes can give (or at least the data suggests this).
Nice video
These settings are aimed at people like me who play racing sims with a gamepad, where it is impossible to have fine control of the brakes and counter steering, and it's okay to have that option. What is the point in having a proper setup (steering wheel and pedals) and using assists?
Yeah it is difficult to deal with. In a race I done an hour ago. P1 was running almost all assists. The guy with the fastest lap had stability control on. This was Le Mans where the P2 setup is quite twitchy. He took huge amounts of time out of me through porsche curves. He overtook me with ease. This was a DR rated driver of S2.
Devs have said time and time again, assists will be more balanced in the future, so the advantage is gone, why are people acting like this is the final version of the game and wont be changed
No-one is acting like this is the final version. I know and have full confidence the devs will fix this.
I don’t think assists are supposed to be allowed typically. Any chance that they might re-visit this and eventually disallow? Don’t they dis-allow assists for all other online multiplayer sim events?
Assists are disabled in the Advanced online races, but are available for all others. Imo they should just readjust them, instead of disabling them outright. Since GT3s will have build-in ABS soon anyway, they'll surely develop a better model in time
It will all be overhauled, devs have said so, it will be more balanced in the future, people are acting like it's final and won't be changed when it will be
The devs have said they will be looking at this, but it needs to happen soon imo. Other titles (iracing for example) don't allow it and even lock the camera to in car. That could be a success factor on their side. Ranked racing done one way, and one way for everyone....?
@GSSimRacing I think right now the player base is too small to divide everyone up, and their worries might be servers not filling up if there were races to suit all requests,
I think we just need to give it time to mature and hope the game is successful, if it has a large playerbase, there will be something for everyone down the line,
As much as I agree with what people are saying, I just think it too early in the games development to be worried about it, let thw devs do their thing, they said they will sort it 👍
@@davidmabbley9924 I just really think they need to fix it urgently. Like to turn on ABS and get the advantage of more braking torque, and the benefit of the assist itself is just nuts. Another guy presented a similar study on the forums, I came across it yesterday and he'd also proved the additional braking force, just by turning on the assists. The devs probably need to choose which main path to go down. Cater to sim racers or focus on an accessible game for the casual player.?
LMU has too many problems for me to even play it
The latest updates are helping. It has improved a lot since release...still some bits to fine tune though.
where can i find the log of an online race?
Go to your folder >user data > logs >results. In there, there will be loads of html files that will open in the browser. Once done, do a control + F and search for ABS. On that line, you'll also see all other assists being ran. Ignore the TC one, as I think this is fed from the cars own TC.
Thanks
Is it possible to do this for Gran turismo 7?
What GPU/CPU are you running Gary
I've a Asus ROG strix RTX 3090 gpu. The CPU is an Intel i9 12900k. 64GB of ddr5 (5200hz) ram supporting it all.
I'm running an AM4 Motherboard.. so I'm stuck with DDR4 ram lol 32GB.
4080 Super and 5800x3D.
I'm curious if I had anAM5 Board if DDR5 ram would improve my Frame rate on triples. Oh well
As far as I'm aware, all the car classes in this game have driver controllable TC in real life. Banning it, or adding penalties for using it would be idiotic, as this is supposed to be a sim. Would you have it banned in GT3 races in ACC? or any other series that has it in reality? Raceroom adds ballast for using TCS/ABS where it doesn't exist in the real classes, which is as it should be.
397 need to change this, so that the sim reflects the real series: in-car TC, no ABS.
We are talking about ABS and Stability control. I do not suggest banning TC as the car has this on board. This is purely to do with menu assists.
In rf2, as in real life, the use of abs and tc in cars worsens lap times. I'm not saying they can't be used because in real life these cars have those technologies. A car without a tc in the wet would go into the wall at the first corner. There must be a lap time penalty
Yep, it is purely the advantage that it is giving. TC is fine as it's onboard the car. But the artificial stability control and ABS helper from the game menu is not on the real cars, naturally. So it is those advantages that lead to laptime gains that need to be adjusted, especially in a ranked server.
it's not unfair if everybody can use it, including YOU
thats not the purpose of a SIM
there is no prize to those online races and you don't win any money, In my opinion you can still race and have fun.if you wanna use them you use , if not, nope. They were made for people with disabilities and for controller users that also have the rights to play and be a little more competitive and have fun
So why bother playing a sim? We might as well all use them and have it handle like Forza.
Personally, if I used the assists, I would either go to ACC and use the in car aids or play a simcade style game like F1 etc.
@@TypeRTeg you must have the right to spend a day fooling around with your controller and another with your SIM rig....... I agree that online from a certain level to the top, probably there should not be assists whatsoever
Why not just use the assist that are available? Become an actual driver. Its not an unfair advantage if EVERYONE has access to it. Why is it hard for anyone to understand it?
I am not against people using them online in general, but I am for ranked racing. The challenge is car control in its raw simulated form. The moment you add driver aids, this gets watered down a lot.