Leg grabs definitely need to come back in some capacity. Your solution to allow one arm below the belt has always made the most sense to me. In the meantime, more grassroots and local judo tournaments need to allow or create divisions that allow leg attacks. Not all of us want/can compete at the international or even national level. Judo is mostly fun for me and using a wider breadth of techniques makes the sport more exciting.
Travis Stevens proposed bringing leg grabs back, but not awarding points for leg grabs. So you can take the match to newaza with leg grabs, but not score. So you'd have them back but you wouldn't achieve anything directly by just doing them. You'd have to know other judo with it. You both had a really appealing point to keeping leg grabs out, at least as a method of scoring, for how it just makes judo look sort of goofy and half-assed in a way, when someone's constantly diving the legs and sort of staying off the standing grip battles. Because that's what I think about when I see leg grabs, to me it just looks like someone's constantly tumbling to hit the legs, it doesn't look good aesthetically or like great judo, so I don't miss it much. Albeit I entered judo world around the time it was just banned. However I give kata guruma a personal pass, especially in its modern form. It looks like good judo, it looks good in general. I just like watching modern judo with grip battles and throws, some increasing newaza as well. It doesn't look like someone's trying to "cheese" the match but that they're actually battling in who has more skill, willing to engage each other. Some rule changes have improved the engagement in my opinion, even though the rules are limiting and sometimes inconsistent. That said, I think there needs to be this mentality where in the judo schools you teach all of it. Competitive judo, all techniques and all katas. So any judoka can choose what best interests them, or know all of them and focus on competing for example. To be a whole judoka. Also senseis should have some S&C coach education. I can't understand the logic where you do 30 minutes of warm up that becomes a fitness test, that leaves your muscles weak and you fully fatigued in cardio as well. Then you're doing some technical work. Then randori for like 45 minutes. Then a small run. Like with all we know about sports science, it should be a heartrate increasing small warmup that doesn't tax you but just gets you warm. Then all your technical work, then all power work, then strength work, hypertrophy work and then resting for recovery. So if you are really into general fitness and building some muscles for judo, that should be the last part of the whole session, not the first part. What's the point in doing technical work when your muscles and nervous system, let alone your cardiovascular system, isn't willing to perform it accurately. You're just degrading your technique at that point. And what's the point in doing randori for like 45 minutes, it should be intense and powerful work with decent rest intervals to make it worthwhile, so that you aren't just flailing your limbs out of breath "learning to fight exhausted". When I started, it was this university club with other young students holding the classes and back then they actually did it with half the class resting, half doing randori and then taking turns and it made so much more sense. The warmups were also reasonable and not driving you to ground. Then I restarted judo later and had an old sensei whose idea was to drive even the most fit judoka down with the warmup, skip technique practice or make technique practice a sort of randori as well and then have constant randori for +30 minutes. And then have a "cool down" run. It was so dumb having learned exercise science in between, but I don't think there's any possible way to do that talk with a sensei, to tell them that they're doing everything backwards and it doesn't really benefit anyone, the least bit the least fit person in the class, if their method is to get the fittest person to lay down gasping for air. As anyone reading this can tell, it's so upsetting when most of these judokas in the class would benefit of technique work the most, then some light randori to test their technique. Sure they would benefit from increasing their fitness as well, but that's not what judo practice is best for. And at least it shouldn't interfere with the judo part of the practice session.
People were doing double legs/morote gari since the 1920s, and seoi nages with the arm out to block the legs. It is an important part of the art, not because they are the most effective takedowns, you can do no leg takedowns and be the best at them, but you have to learn to defend them consistently too
Chadi, it would be very interesting if you could interview an IJF referee and ask him/her why they didn't penalize Judo players for low stances before the leg grabs ban. It was in the rules: keeping a low stance was Shido. If they had been sharper on enforcing this rule, perhaps Judo would still have the techniques that were lost to the competition.
@@ricardokerscher Which makes it stupid, yeah practical for competetion , stupid for self defense, That’s why Gracies hate on this competetion who the feck would lay down in a self defense situation?
I have a "Judo is a combat art, not a sport" POV. I accept the sportification in order to train and pressure test techniques safely. That's why I don't like unnecessary (=not because of health risk) limitations of available techniques. I usually have "What would happen in a real fight that doesn't happen on soft mats?" in mind. So, I have a different suggestion for how to deal with the overhunched leg-grabbers: Award successful sprawls. If Tori constantly goes for the legs and Uke successfully sprawls and thereby puts Tori on the knees, give Uke a point. If you sprawl a leg grab in a real fight and Tori crashes their knees into concrete, those knees have a high probability to be gone. In that way, you still can go for two-handed Morote Gari, which is a devastating and IMO important Judo throw, but you have to be careful when to use it as you will get punished if you fall short.
Morote-gari (double leg) was also originally part of judo cirriculum. I think a better way to reinstate leg grab is to add a rule that and to only allow shooting the legs unless he or she first grips or holds the opponent’s jacket with one or both hands. However, this must be an actual grip or hold and not merely touching the jacket as the throw or takedown is attempted. This rule prohibits shooting for the legs from a distance.
Great talk Chadi-san! Thank you for that! I like your sugestion to the ruleset too. THE ONLY THING that should be banned from competition and randori are the DANGEROUS waza like Kani basami, standing waki gatame, wrist locks, ashi garami, etc. Could only be practiced with a cooperative uke as Kata.
@@BacatauMania Hi Bacatau! Wrist locks are dangerous be cause the wrist joint has a short range of motion. As soon as the lock is done you are getting hurt already. As opposed to an arm lock for example
Well, the real answers is to just have multiple rule sets. Boxing has Olympic boxing rules and pro boxing, bjj has the ifbjj, then Eddie bravo made up the EBI rule sets and the Extreme JJ rule set. Karate has WKF, Kyokushin AND Karate Combat, even wrestling has free style and Greco. Judo should have Olympic rule set, freestyle (all leg grabs allowed and avoid grip fighting is ok) and maybe even some other rule set like “unlimited” like matches go for a set amount of time and players can score multiple ippons per match!
I have the cannon of judo and it shows how to bring back a pesron who has been thrown to death. Jokes , its helps when a person is knocked out or if you find a drowning person. It shows how to bring back to consiousness and also what to do if your oppenent was striked in the balls so hard his balls pull into his stomach , it shows how to bring your balls back into position. Ot shows combos , do a foot sweep into rear reap as example , not a real combo, maybe it is.
The art of shiatsu may be what you are talking about! I was once at a competition and the referee allowed a young man to be strangled out and he just stood waiting for a tap. I shouted that he was unconscious but this referee did not have a clue so i went on the mat and had to bring him round was that right or wrong?
I hope your message reach top heads at IJF, te guruma and kata guruma need to come back to judo!, also the shintaro higashi point is relevant: there's gonna be a point where people are gonna get bored of seeing uchimata and drop seoi all the time on judo compilations
The organisation “ judo for all “ still do leg grabs and split training 50% newaza and 50% throws and it’s pushed as a martial art not a sport ….Sampson judo represents it in the UK and he’s good …very very good …linked to the Kodakan too l believe!!…
Hi Chadi! You should interview Steve Scott from the channel TheWelcomeMat he has introduced a type of "Freestyle Judo" ruleset to the AAU (American Athletic Union)
You know that Japan has produced some great wrestlers, right? Honestly, I don’t think you can put a gi on a wrestler and expect them to compete at the highest level
This is potentially true, however nothing is stopping a judo person from doing some wrestling to learn and adapt to what a pure wrestler is doing. Sure it’s an arms race but if it’s an actual concern, then a judo player has to let go the ego and go learn counters to something like that
I read one day that judo was turning into Wrestling or Bjj, too many : Te guruma, Kuchiki daoshi, Kibisu gaeshi, Morote gari, kata guruma, Sukui nage etc, Judokas with tokui waza like seoi nage, Ipon seoi, koshi guruma or tradicional throws was been forgoten, New generation was focused in leg grabs instead other techniques just like Wrestling or Bjj.
It's the point scoring which made judo more exciting not the banning of techniques. Also allow lifting of the head for rear naked chokes and if an opponent stands to get rid of the armbar don't stop it. Let it continue till a tap
I really think a single leg should be allowed back in. The double leg/morote gari I think we should still teach (also the counter moves) but not for competition. Why? Because an Individual Un-Skilled in Judo Tachi-waza Randori,, but Strong/Fast, CAN and WILL win Judo matches with Morote Gari, which can be taught in a weekend. This is especially true if that person already has BJJ (newaza) experience.
The IJF/IOC knew wrestling was on the Olympic chopping block and if it fell their sport would be besieged with Hairy Russians, Muslims and Mongolians... they immediately clutched their pearls and got rid of every wrestling technique they possibly could because they were far more interested in the marketable economies of Western Europe and Elite Asia since they had totally commercialized the games, Coke and McDonald's don't want champions from poor countries that don't consume their products 🔥💥🌟
Judo is a pretty poor spectacle for spectators as is. Too many penalties and messy throws, too many ippons awarded for awful throws and too much turtling. They ought to work to use sono mama again rather than allow escapes. The Olympics is very much a double edged sword for judo.
simple answer , only allow leg grabs if the leg is offered, judoka leaning down just to grab a leg shido. Too many skilful technical throws have gone eg kata guruma etc etc. Sorry but judo will kill itself, no one knows the rules from one day to the next
The reason why leg grabs were banned is because a lot of Wrestlers who trained in Judo would use leg grabs consistently. That became a problem in Judo competitions. Therefore that rule was applied.
Leg grabs definitely need to come back in some capacity. Your solution to allow one arm below the belt has always made the most sense to me. In the meantime, more grassroots and local judo tournaments need to allow or create divisions that allow leg attacks. Not all of us want/can compete at the international or even national level. Judo is mostly fun for me and using a wider breadth of techniques makes the sport more exciting.
Travis Stevens proposed bringing leg grabs back, but not awarding points for leg grabs. So you can take the match to newaza with leg grabs, but not score. So you'd have them back but you wouldn't achieve anything directly by just doing them. You'd have to know other judo with it.
You both had a really appealing point to keeping leg grabs out, at least as a method of scoring, for how it just makes judo look sort of goofy and half-assed in a way, when someone's constantly diving the legs and sort of staying off the standing grip battles. Because that's what I think about when I see leg grabs, to me it just looks like someone's constantly tumbling to hit the legs, it doesn't look good aesthetically or like great judo, so I don't miss it much. Albeit I entered judo world around the time it was just banned.
However I give kata guruma a personal pass, especially in its modern form. It looks like good judo, it looks good in general. I just like watching modern judo with grip battles and throws, some increasing newaza as well. It doesn't look like someone's trying to "cheese" the match but that they're actually battling in who has more skill, willing to engage each other. Some rule changes have improved the engagement in my opinion, even though the rules are limiting and sometimes inconsistent.
That said, I think there needs to be this mentality where in the judo schools you teach all of it. Competitive judo, all techniques and all katas. So any judoka can choose what best interests them, or know all of them and focus on competing for example. To be a whole judoka. Also senseis should have some S&C coach education. I can't understand the logic where you do 30 minutes of warm up that becomes a fitness test, that leaves your muscles weak and you fully fatigued in cardio as well. Then you're doing some technical work. Then randori for like 45 minutes. Then a small run. Like with all we know about sports science, it should be a heartrate increasing small warmup that doesn't tax you but just gets you warm. Then all your technical work, then all power work, then strength work, hypertrophy work and then resting for recovery. So if you are really into general fitness and building some muscles for judo, that should be the last part of the whole session, not the first part. What's the point in doing technical work when your muscles and nervous system, let alone your cardiovascular system, isn't willing to perform it accurately. You're just degrading your technique at that point. And what's the point in doing randori for like 45 minutes, it should be intense and powerful work with decent rest intervals to make it worthwhile, so that you aren't just flailing your limbs out of breath "learning to fight exhausted". When I started, it was this university club with other young students holding the classes and back then they actually did it with half the class resting, half doing randori and then taking turns and it made so much more sense. The warmups were also reasonable and not driving you to ground. Then I restarted judo later and had an old sensei whose idea was to drive even the most fit judoka down with the warmup, skip technique practice or make technique practice a sort of randori as well and then have constant randori for +30 minutes. And then have a "cool down" run. It was so dumb having learned exercise science in between, but I don't think there's any possible way to do that talk with a sensei, to tell them that they're doing everything backwards and it doesn't really benefit anyone, the least bit the least fit person in the class, if their method is to get the fittest person to lay down gasping for air. As anyone reading this can tell, it's so upsetting when most of these judokas in the class would benefit of technique work the most, then some light randori to test their technique. Sure they would benefit from increasing their fitness as well, but that's not what judo practice is best for. And at least it shouldn't interfere with the judo part of the practice session.
Judo is for self defense first and second for physical fitness and last for sport. Leg grabs fall under self defense.
People were doing double legs/morote gari since the 1920s, and seoi nages with the arm out to block the legs. It is an important part of the art, not because they are the most effective takedowns, you can do no leg takedowns and be the best at them, but you have to learn to defend them consistently too
Chadi, it would be very interesting if you could interview an IJF referee and ask him/her why they didn't penalize Judo players for low stances before the leg grabs ban. It was in the rules: keeping a low stance was Shido. If they had been sharper on enforcing this rule, perhaps Judo would still have the techniques that were lost to the competition.
Agreed, I need referee names, available on social media
@@Chadi you already spoke with Neil Adams, perhaps him? Or maybe a Japanese refferee.
I like this one-hand leg grab.
I really like your suggestion for having one grip on top and one on the bottom. That would make things really interesting
Judokas gonna start competing on bjj tourneys just to toss people more freely
My dojo already has!
Judokas are 15 years late, this should be a movement from all gyms and immediately
Nah...lot of bjj when facing judokas or wrestlers will do pull guard
no way. BJJ practitioners touch the opponent in any way, almost lying on the ground and sit... end of takedowns...
@@ricardokerscher Which makes it stupid, yeah practical for competetion , stupid for self defense, That’s why Gracies hate on this competetion who the feck would lay down in a self defense situation?
Thanks for the interview Chadi!
I have a "Judo is a combat art, not a sport" POV. I accept the sportification in order to train and pressure test techniques safely. That's why I don't like unnecessary (=not because of health risk) limitations of available techniques. I usually have "What would happen in a real fight that doesn't happen on soft mats?" in mind. So, I have a different suggestion for how to deal with the overhunched leg-grabbers: Award successful sprawls. If Tori constantly goes for the legs and Uke successfully sprawls and thereby puts Tori on the knees, give Uke a point. If you sprawl a leg grab in a real fight and Tori crashes their knees into concrete, those knees have a high probability to be gone. In that way, you still can go for two-handed Morote Gari, which is a devastating and IMO important Judo throw, but you have to be careful when to use it as you will get punished if you fall short.
More than a few arts have been watered down to the point where a student /practitioner has to make the decision to pursue the art or the sport.
I like the idea of leg grabs in golden score.
This aged very well. Two years later, leg grabs are back in japan.
One hand on the legs is a great idea! Don't be scared, IJF!
Morote-gari (double leg) was also originally part of judo cirriculum. I think a better way to reinstate leg grab is to add a rule that and to only allow shooting the legs unless he or she first grips or holds the opponent’s jacket with one or both hands. However, this must be an actual grip or hold and not merely touching the jacket as the throw or takedown is attempted. This rule prohibits shooting for the legs from a distance.
They can rewrite the rules of competition. They cannot rewrite Kodokan Judo.
Chadi 1 arm grab rule is brilliant, i would add above knee
Bring back leg grabs and more neya Waza !
Great conversation
Bring them back!
Great talk Chadi-san! Thank you for that!
I like your sugestion to the ruleset too. THE ONLY THING that should be banned from competition and randori are the DANGEROUS waza like Kani basami, standing waki gatame, wrist locks, ashi garami, etc. Could only be practiced with a cooperative uke as Kata.
Why wrist locks?
@@BacatauMania It's hard to control the intensity on a moving opponent so damage can easily occur before the partner can tap.
@@BacatauMania Hi Bacatau! Wrist locks are dangerous be cause the wrist joint has a short range of motion. As soon as the lock is done you are getting hurt already. As opposed to an arm lock for example
@@angelsjoker8190 Exactly!
@@beskeptic I see! Thanks
I agree, it was too heavy the punishment. Maybe they could punish trouser grab but in my opinion they shoul allow the grab of the leg or ankle.
Yes they do! Amen!
I too believe leg grabs should go back officially.
Well, the real answers is to just have multiple rule sets. Boxing has Olympic boxing rules and pro boxing, bjj has the ifbjj, then Eddie bravo made up the EBI rule sets and the Extreme JJ rule set. Karate has WKF, Kyokushin AND Karate Combat, even wrestling has free style and Greco.
Judo should have Olympic rule set, freestyle (all leg grabs allowed and avoid grip fighting is ok) and maybe even some other rule set like “unlimited” like matches go for a set amount of time and players can score multiple ippons per match!
"Freestyle Judo" with leg grabs? Someone should suggest this to Steve Scott! 🤔
Agree
I have the cannon of judo and it shows how to bring back a pesron who has been thrown to death. Jokes , its helps when a person is knocked out or if you find a drowning person. It shows how to bring back to consiousness and also what to do if your oppenent was striked in the balls so hard his balls pull into his stomach , it shows how to bring your balls back into position. Ot shows combos , do a foot sweep into rear reap as example , not a real combo, maybe it is.
Cannon of judo Is a badass book 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
The art of shiatsu may be what you are talking about! I was once at a competition and the referee allowed a young man to be strangled out and he just stood waiting for a tap. I shouted that he was unconscious but this referee did not have a clue so i went on the mat and had to bring him round was that right or wrong?
I used to think this but now I believe leg grabs w/o also adding atemi is a mistake because it promotes a forward chin.
I hope your message reach top heads at IJF, te guruma and kata guruma need to come back to judo!, also the shintaro higashi point is relevant: there's gonna be a point where people are gonna get bored of seeing uchimata and drop seoi all the time on judo compilations
The organisation “ judo for all “ still do leg grabs and split training 50% newaza and 50% throws and it’s pushed as a martial art not a sport ….Sampson judo represents it in the UK and he’s good …very very good …linked to the Kodakan too l believe!!…
Why they keep making these changes to judo
To differentiate itself from wrestling
Wrestling was on the chopping block with the IOC and the IJF panicked by removing attacks that resembled wrestling to preserve its Olympic status.
Modern competetive Judo is slowly becoming Greco.
At least trips/foot sweeps will never go away.
Hi Chadi!
You should interview Steve Scott from the channel TheWelcomeMat he has introduced a type of "Freestyle Judo" ruleset to the AAU (American Athletic Union)
The reason is obvious… the don’t want world class wrestlers coming in and dominating the competition. It’s terrible for the Japanese.
You know that Japan has produced some great wrestlers, right? Honestly, I don’t think you can put a gi on a wrestler and expect them to compete at the highest level
It is funny people keep saying ijf changes rules for the Japanese while ijf is not even controlled by Japanese.
This is potentially true, however nothing is stopping a judo person from doing some wrestling to learn and adapt to what a pure wrestler is doing. Sure it’s an arms race but if it’s an actual concern, then a judo player has to let go the ego and go learn counters to something like that
wrong...
Nah more like they don't want singles and doubles becoming prevalent again in judo competitions.
If they will come back, you'll have people grappling in a hunched position. And Kano Jigoro said that this is no-no.
So?
From now on all my opponents in real life situations have to walk around hunched or it's not FAIR!
@@freshprinz8996 Well if you fight hunched you'll have people punching you in the face? Isn't that valid?
I read one day that judo was turning into Wrestling or Bjj, too many : Te guruma, Kuchiki daoshi, Kibisu gaeshi, Morote gari, kata guruma, Sukui nage etc, Judokas with tokui waza like seoi nage, Ipon seoi, koshi guruma or tradicional throws was been forgoten, New generation was focused in leg grabs instead other techniques just like Wrestling or Bjj.
It's the point scoring which made judo more exciting not the banning of techniques. Also allow lifting of the head for rear naked chokes and if an opponent stands to get rid of the armbar don't stop it. Let it continue till a tap
Must bring back Leg Grabs because most Judokha's hate this stupid rule, you must allow more grappling also this 5 seconds rule is very bad
I really think a single leg should be allowed back in. The double leg/morote gari I think we should still teach (also the counter moves) but not for competition. Why? Because an Individual Un-Skilled in Judo Tachi-waza Randori,, but Strong/Fast, CAN and WILL win Judo matches with Morote Gari, which can be taught in a weekend. This is especially true if that person already has BJJ (newaza) experience.
The IJF/IOC knew wrestling was on the Olympic chopping block and if it fell their sport would be besieged with Hairy Russians, Muslims and Mongolians... they immediately clutched their pearls and got rid of every wrestling technique they possibly could because they were far more interested in the marketable economies of Western Europe and Elite Asia since they had totally commercialized the games, Coke and McDonald's don't want champions from poor countries that don't consume their products
🔥💥🌟
Judo is a pretty poor spectacle for spectators as is. Too many penalties and messy throws, too many ippons awarded for awful throws and too much turtling.
They ought to work to use sono mama again rather than allow escapes.
The Olympics is very much a double edged sword for judo.
nothing is more uninteresting than 10 minutes of BJJ. Confusing, boring, and meaningless to spectators who don't practice fighting.
@@ricardokerscher a better balance can be found between 10 minutes and 5 seconds though!
i hope
simple answer , only allow leg grabs if the leg is offered, judoka leaning down just to grab a leg shido. Too many skilful technical throws have gone eg kata guruma etc etc. Sorry but judo will kill itself, no one knows the rules from one day to the next
Judo must come back its original combat not the sporting Judo which people do today. Sporting Judo is bs. Kimura defeated Helio Gracie
The reason why leg grabs were banned is because a lot of Wrestlers who trained in Judo would use leg grabs consistently. That became a problem in Judo competitions. Therefore that rule was applied.
Official judo made the gay rules change...now bjj is better.....sad....
This is absurd. So many stupid rules.
Judo is so watered down it is a not very effective martial art
they should go back to judo from the 80ies and nighties with scissors and all that. Judo is over regulated and boring as it is now.