Ne waza is the ultimate priority in Judo, not the throw!!!
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- In this podcast Doctor Rhadi Ferguson discusses the importance of gripping and ground techniques in Judo, compared to just throwing.
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It’s game theory. This is why bjj for instance the guard pull is so attractive under the ibjjf ruleset. The most advantageous outcome of the takedown you win the takedown past the guard. The next worst is landing inside the guard sure you started up 2-0 and might get another 3 for the pass. But the opponent on bottom has more submission options (depending on the guard), sweeps (best case 2-2 worst case 2-6), and back takes 2-4. Takedowns are inherently more risky for bjj. To make takedowns more valuable the score of a takedown should be way higher.
Whatsup fellow mathematician
@@prvtthd401 ooooffff idk if I’d go that far lol I barely scrapped by my calc2 class
@@chenwang643 alot of that has to do with too much focus on amplitude of throws rather than prioritizing how to land
@@chenwang643 I agree to a point but a lot of takedowns in wrestling are hard to pull off in a way that allow you to stay in a good position.
@@chenwang643 That was me ...
I'm gonna say it. The times you have had Dr. Rhadi Ferguson have been the MOST beneficial interviews you have ever done the common sense all around approach and knowledge this man gives is just amazing. BEST GUEST EVER!
He’s incredibly insightful
Thank you sir. I appreciate that.
Flavio Canto a brazilian judoca is a master of transition /ne waza.
sure
I entirely agree with him. I just started judo in November, but I have a little over 1 years' experience in bjj. I am not even particularly good at bjj, but I am beating everyone in my dojo at ne waza-even the black belts. However, in the stand-up I get thrown around like a ragdoll.
Throws are virtually worthless unless you come out in a dominant position in the real world... this is how Judo should be scored, throw your opponent and how they land is important but nowhere near as important as how YOU land! The modern focus on high-amplitude throws is bad for the sport especially at the Grassroots level, bring back minor scores, punish any step out with a shido and the next time a competitor does a throw and then stops working to look up at you patronizing for a score instead of focusing on groundwork send them packing... the transition to a dominant ground position is sacred... quit letting competitors beg like dogs for a score after they land on the mat instead of transitioning into hardcore groundwork 😒
I have to disagree, I understand that newaza in judo has to improve but this judo sport, if a newaza heavy tactic was ultimate way to win, it would have been done, Flavio canto ,Travis Stevens are masters of newaza, but how come what they did not trend, keyla Harrison won a gold with only newaza but not many people copied her, if that's the case why wouldn't The Gracie's dominate judo, the structure of judo competition makes it difficult to take advantage of the lack of newaza.
The thing is, in Judo you can stand up and if you opponent is on the ground you don't have to engage them. The match is halted and started in standing again. In BJJ you have to engage in ground work.
'if a newaza heavy tactic . .'
It's not popular because the mindset is to make a perfect throw, resulting perfect score.
Meaning 1 perfect throw ends the fight.
'why wouldn't Gracie dominate Judo? '
Probably because they didn't learn, how to throw, which result is lousy throw but throw none the less, and then . .
Transition to ne waza.
A perfect throw is hard to do,
especially against bigger, stronger opponent, who knows Judo.
The alternative is to do less perfect throw, transition to ground fight.
Against a larger opponent, who knows Judo throw,
there's not much alternative, but to implement the 'lousy thrown, transition, ground work' tactic.
Winning grip fight is essential, otherwise the larger opponent might attack 1'st.
Hence : grip fight, lousy throw, transition, ground fight.
Lousy throw doesn't mean a fail throw.
@@budisutanto5987 fair point, but isn't the shido easier to do? And you are right the aim is to the perfect throw but most coaches and athletes only care about winning.
The Gracies understand used simple takedowns like double leg takedowns, similar to Randi Ferguson's morote gari.
Let's also look at turtling, stalling and sprawling for a few seconds can cause the ref to say stop and you up during newaza.
I agree that newaza has to be practised and improved upon.
But the current structure of competition forces it to be more as an add on when the opportunity presents itself and not a main game plan, but I hope to be proven wrong.
@viewer I agree to that point
@@martiallife4136 Mmmmm, no you can't if that person is a good newaza practitioner.
I study Brazilian jiu jitsu and I absolutely hate starting on my knees, I think it’s silly and it creates bad habits, I’d honestly rather just start from standing or at least from a realistic position you end up in.
I only start on the ground when it's too crowded in the room for nage waza.
If my rolling partner starts on his knees I either just drop into guard and force him to act accordingly or stand up and push him down violently depending on how much I like the person (I recommend you do the same)
@@cahallo5964 I agree completely.
Yes!!!
@@vids595 I am gonna kani basami your neck
The monster himself
I have been doing judo, sambo and combat sambo for many years. I realized that the most effective in the stance is a throw, the most effective in the stalls is a blow
This philosophy is practical and advocates returning leg attacks to competition.
Yeah
Yo!!!! I really have to agree with Dr. Ferguson on the topic because I can honestly speak from experience. Late 2020 I was invited to train with former and 2020ne Olympic competitors from several caribbean countries. I was completely dominated in kumi kata and spent most of the evening on my heels. However, due to my ability to transition to newaza by blocking attacks or my own failed attacks I was able to win a few exchanges.
Thank you Chadi! Where can we get your full podcast with Dr. Ferguson?
You can count on Dr. Ferguson to always bring one of the most logical and insightful approaches to judo around. Always worth listening to, as are you, Chadi!
Awwww Thanks my man!
Ne waza est la priorité ultime au judo pas la projection just a little correction keep up the good work oss
Great content Chadi!!! One of my friends is competing in a tournament in Atlanta this weekend so lastnight night we were focusing on strong grips and strong pins....Hes tall and lanky for his weight so the plan is to use gripping and pins/ne waza🥋
In any h2h combat situation, be it war, street, or sport, you either 1) Gain time, 2) lose time, 3) gain advantage, 4) lose advantage.
I started Judo after studying a hard form of striking. I was very rigid, therefore I did a lot of airtime. In order to overcome my particular disadvantage, I learned to develop my newaza skills because I wound up on the mat more than my feet!
Then, as my stand-up game got better, I was a double threat that WELCOMED the ground game and had the drive and ability to take opponents to the ground and finish them quickly if my throw did not. I learned to throw and land in a dominant (kesa etc.) position and therefore had the ability to transition if necessary or desired at MY discretion.
That is a game changer.
I agree but I’m too old, I go grab a peacemaker…
Although competitive Judo has had some questionable rules which have been introduced to make the fights more "aesthetic" at the expense of pratical application in a fight (it's down the same road of what happened to TKD, although thankfully not to anywhere near the same extent), I don't believe ne waza should ever be the priority, nage waza is the bread and butter of judo and it should be, ne waza is what you do IF you end up on the ground but that should never be your first option because in a real self defense situation that puts you in an extremely vulnerable position against an opponent who doesn't have any rules preventing them from just kicking you, or worse if they have a buddy who decides to join in, and in a real right against someone who doesn't know how to breakfall and on a hard surface more often than not a well executed throw will be a knockout, or at the very least knock the wind right out of an opponent and almost certainly eliminate their will to keep fighting you.
the subject here is sports judo, it has nothing to do with supposed self-defense.
@@ricardokerscher Sure, but I don't think it's a good thing when the two start to distance themselves too much. There are always concessions made when turning a martial art into a sport, because you can't have people competing in a sport and constantly seriously injuring each other, but I don't agree with adding rules that are based on ideology rather than safety. That road leads down to people who can be great in a martial art but useless in a fight, which is what happens with TKD or Aikido today, I don't want to see that happen to Judo.
I mean obviously in light of current judo ruleset and habits that players had developed due to being conditioned by those rules he is right. He noticed that now area where most players are lacking in skill is newaza and where they are the best at is touchiwaza and advocates to take advantage of that situation rather than try to beat players where they are best at. Becoming really good at something that everyone else is not will give one the advantage to win the game. But this is obviously merely a loophole in the game and only applies at this current time and will shortly evolve in different directions once more and more players start investing more and more time I'm newaza.
I agree with Dr Ferguson about heavy weight not investing into newaza but as a judo black belt and bjj purple belt I love newaza and I do compete at minus 100 kilos
Not sure whether I like this. What he basically says is to train how to effectively stall the match if your opponent is better in the stand-up. It's tactically sound for Olympic Judo competition, but it takes Judo again further away from its origins as an effective fighting art.
Agreed. Good for strategy building, but frustrating for those who want to develop their judo for more than just the sport aspect. Dr. Ferguson is a wealth of knowledge that extends beyond just Olympic judo. It would be cool if he framed this in the way he'd apply it to say, ADCC rules
Not stall! Actively and aggressively GRIP. Actively and aggressively ATTACK. Actively and aggressively TRANSITION. And actively and aggressively do NEWAZA. Stalling is nowhere in this system. You must be in great shape and you must operate within the spirit of the rules which is to look to attack and win.. PROACTIVELY.
Great interview, Chaadi. Though not a judoka, I remember seeing a video course of Rhadi maybe 20, 25 years ago on the recommendation of my coach, who was a judoka. Completely changed the way I grappled and caused a lot of frustration for opponents and training partners in wrestling and especially bjj. My grappling approach became about grips/tie ups/pummeling to attack to transition to par terre. Made me much more strategic in never rushing a takedown/throw and always making sure I was exhausting their grips and upper body attack prior to kazushi then transitioning to a takedown or disengaging to re-attack the arms, head, and neck (the approach was hit them all the same time) before repeating the cycle. Because of Rhadi I went from a brawling idiot using my strength (which was always my strength) to a strategic, patient grinder.
Great videos, and always awesome analyses and entertaining videos as always.
Thank you Rhadi for reeducating us.
This all goes back to winning by not losing. You lose by ippon, submission, or pin, and the way to avoid that is to prevent the throw and frustrate their ne waza. That buys you time, and with training you can use that time to execute better and better attacks.
I love how he said" su me gay ish"
I hear you, but damn throws are so cool.
Excellent interview! Looking at statistics, Newaza wins matches.
Brilliant stuff! This made me pull the trigger on supporting you on Patreon.
Oh man, thank you for this video. I stumbled upon Dr. Rhadi's video a long time ago and I really enjoyed his philosophy!
You can lift a heavyweight in ne waza like Alexander Karelin did, but to get what?
-No score
-Probably mate
-They will turn belly down as soon as they hit the floor, no osae komi
Turn burn time..... The key with newaza is to eat up the chronological landscape of the match.
@@TampaFloridaJudo Interesting, so when winning by wazari
This is Kimbo's cousin
So from now on we have to call him Dr. Rhadi "Sun Tzu" Ferguson for working out that strategic paradigm!
Max was here
Boom mind blown
Steve Golthorpe will agree with you both.
Gawthorpe , Ray Stevens , Neil adams Kerrirh Brown all where amongst the world's top players in transitioning from Tachi waza to Newaza . Gawthorpe was a beast 65 kg looked 90 kg could hang with any player in the world at he's peak
@@deanpaulson6714 'reet, choose thi throw and choose this seeed cuz the gonna get thran'
Exactly!!
I think by watching a video called Flavio Canto - Brazilian Wizard of Submissions (Highlights) on UA-cam. That's the of type of judo that's being mention here.
The only way for a smaller guy to beat a bigger is the ground/Ne Waza. Same concept also in Wrestling. Rhadi just told you how Oda tsutetane wins matches.
He's advocating how Count Maeda and the Gracies approached Judo and specialized in kozen newaza.
Rhonda Rousey's mother was first American to win gold in Olympic sport Judo and she won by forcing opponents into newaza where she excelled.
It’s all in the title there you’re right in judo the focus on newaza pays because of the rules and dynamics you get more chance to finish on the ground than with a clean ippon throw! And besides the dynamics the strength the power and the deadly aspect of judo as a sport coz you can still spike people on their head and cause terrible damage, it’s still a sport and hence why newaza makes sense... now if you want to be street fit or efficient nothing can beat a clean ippon throw on concrete ! Big fighter god forbid it can definitely make you end up in prison for killing someone. You ll never go to newaza I’m the street simply coz rolling on concrete hurts I ve tried it hahaha let alone being subject to kicks in the head...
So newaza is obviously part of judo and necessary to learn and master
It’s great for judo competitions
But nowhere as efficient in the street as tachi waza.
The most simple sweep in the street and you’re one for a terrifying ride...
He's basically describing what happened when BJ Penn entered a Judo competition.
Buhurt?
"I wish" (Chadi, 2023)
Very inspiring dialogue period.
Great insight
solid
This conversation pretty much summarizes the mindset of Kosen Judo and BJJ. Not playing to your opponent's strength and forcing them to yours.
Yes and no! It takes years to develop a solid grip fighting foundation in the stand up, it’s one of the hardest things, jujutsu just sits down, thinking they need to learn a takedown or two, it’s not that simple and in Judo you can’t just sit. What Doctor Ferguson said is that you need impeccable gripping and stand up endurance coupled with takedown ability in order to be a shark on the ground, not just have good ne waza.
@@Chadi That's is not how sport jiujitsu is done in the competition oriented gyms in the USA. There are lots of bjj schools that have rejected the ibjjf rule set and culture. We know lots of take downs, mostly from wrestling but also many from Japanese grappling. When the mats are crowded people will more often start on the ground. I feel like your view of "brazilian" jui-jitsu is about 10 years out of date.
@@vids595 I do bjj too and follow all the grappling sports closely. Chadi is not out of date with his opinion on bjj. While I agree more people now are wanting to learn judo and wrestling to compliment their bjj, most are still not doing that. The “IBJJF culture” is still the dominating force in bjj currently, despite schools like yours rejecting it.
@@vids595 Absolutely out of date. It's the same where I train. We start standing, if crowded for safety reasons we start on our knees. They have no clue of the shift taking place in BJJ. They can't even do double legs in their own sport but yet constantly talking about what we do and don't do in BJJ.