The IJF is bringing back leg grabbing techniques...on ONE condition
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
- This video discusses the best way to enhance Judo with leg grabbing techniques.
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Judo practitioners must remember that outlawed IJF techniques are legal in the dojo and in real life. We must distinguish between competition judo and everyday judo. One problem faced by many contemporary judokas is that we tailor our daily practice pedagogies around IJF rules. We are doing a disservice to our students, 99% of whom are not interested in earning international medals. Just like BJJ students, many of whom intend to learn self-defense and survival skills when they join a BJJ club, many judo practitioners want to learn the techniques taught by earlier practitioners. Imagine the majority of judokas learning the techniques of our predecessors like Isao Okano, Kazuzo Kudo, etc. Judo instructors must think more strategically and holistically about what they teach and to whom.
The problem is that you "fight" like you train. Competition "illegal" habits in randori will get you disqualified in shiai. But I totally agree with you, teachers SHOULD continue to teach them no matter what.
As a non-competitor I always dismissed drop techniques, what are your thoughts on that?
This is exatcly my thoughts. This way of class oriented to competition move away students.
The issue is that dojo training is much less intense than actual competitions. I would like there to be competitions that allow for the leg attacks so that it can be incorporated into real life. Right now, it is taught just to advance and not for use.
Well this is a comment I can get behind. A lot of internet commenters speak as if IJF competition rules equal to what you can do in your life outside the international competition of judo federation (notice I don't say just competition but international IJF approved competition).
Regarding the practice and learning, here the federation requires you to learn all techniques as you progress the belt grades. You have to do kata and learn to teach and referee towards black belt as well. Clubs here have separate competitor classes. So at least here it's not compromising the learning of non-competitive judo either. But here people do also relate to competitive judo, they have no illusions of using judo in the streets (but their legs, people with that mindset are usually pain in the ass to train with, running on some sort of fight or flight instinct and questionable attitude) and most do it because it's a fine sport and exercising, self-control and mentality among other things. Good survival skills are btw learning to build a cover and make fire, knots and traps very likely. Not quite the bjj stuff but anyway.
They could also go the wrestling route and have Judo then "Classic Judo" or "Freestyle Judo" which has different rules.
There is a "Freestyle Judo" ruleset offered by the AAU (Amateur Athletic Union) that more closely resembles the old Kodokan ruleset and is different than current IJF.
Damn that would be sick
If they have two Olympic wrestling styles why can't they have two Judo styles?
They need to be brought back. They are the most effective way to win fights. Judo is a martial art first a sport second. Don't punish effective techniques punish stalling.
"They are the most effective way to win fights. "
That’s why they took it out. It is very easy to use leg grabs and very easy to stall.
Yeah. MAKE JUDO GREAT AGAIN
Agreed. they great martial techniques.not all of us want to do Olympic Judo. Make Judo Great Again
lmfaooo most effective way to win fights. Ok. I'd rather be double legged than basically ANY other throw.
my impression was that jigoro kano evolved the ruleset to ensure competition judo would translate well into self defense, military combat, and law enforcement. emphasizing fast throws and pins and deemphasizing "flow rolling" makes sense in this context. its open to debate whether outlawing leg grabs does too. on one hand its an effective method and it seems stupid not to train it. on the other hand we see how leg grabbing has affected the stance of freestyle wrestlers (head forward, hands low) while greco roman wrestlers are more defensively sound
What are we talking about.
Judo was simple, you have to throw the opponent, throw him... and that's it. Regardless of technique, leg grips or not. The important parameters were: amplitude, control and falling with the whole back on the tatami. Everything else was not a throw, and you get penalties for avoiding fight or positive Judo, with fake attacks. But no, let destroy whole art...
yeah but that wasn't producing Neil Adams favourite throws
To throw OR to enter newaza in a skillful way...
Blame the Olympics. They took leg grabs out to differentiate from wrestling and to only exhibit the big flashy throws.
I’m all for the “lift” leg attack. Fingers crossed.
Single-leg and double leg takedowns are part of Judo. So, there's no such thing as "Ohh this guy's Judo is weak, because he used leg grab/leg shot to take me down." That's just bullshit excuse for those with fragile ego who wish to tailor rules according to what fits them. How about drop Seoinage? Sometimes there's no "lifting" involved, i.e. the opponent just gets rolled over. Maybe we should ban this technique as well, or at least mandate that you have to lift your opponent up, either from the kneeling or standing position. If you can't deal with low-stance opponent gunning for youregs, your Judo needs to be worked on..simple as that.
@@Reflectionmaterial Sumi gaeshi used to work for me.
Unless it is a proven dangerous technique, bring it all back!Until then people like me will continue to drift towards BJJ where we can freely express all techniques in Judo.Neil and his IJF peers will be remembered not for being great judoka, but for destroying our great art.
@@Reflectionmaterial His point is he can do what he wants in bjj rather than what other people do. No-gi is better if you want takedowns, IMO.
@@Reflectionmaterial That's why you compete in events that allow lifts and slams. ;)
In a perfect world we'd have judo as it should be with atemi waza, leg attacks, small joint manipulation and everything
@@ReflectionmaterialI'm not a professional, but I have noticed that big brains of bjj strongly recommend take down, including using Judo techniques.
The other thing is that the rule sets are no standardized in all bjj competitions, but for example in Quintet tournament you will win only by submission not by holding someone in a certain position. Now, once you put someone in an inferior position, you can't stay there till the time is over. You have a few seconds and then gotta do something, otherwise you will get shido.
@@Reflectionmaterialvery rare to win by advantage, only if its a draw on points at the end of say 7 minutes.
What is Adam's point here ? That he sold out to the greedy, and completely out of touch IJF because certain Judoka didn't fight the way he perferred him to ? They didn't fight like he did ? Christ, this makes my blood boil. This d1psh1t wantonly helped damage Judo for over a decade, the very least he can do is be honest about why he did what he did.
Yeah, he covers for them pretty hard. The idea that Judo banning leg grabs was to make it more appealing for an Olympic audience and “set it apart” from wrestling is nonsense. It’s already quite different than wrestling - leg grabs were still not the most common techniques being used in Judo before they were banned. Watering down the sport because it is somewhat adjacent to other grappling styles is not a great move in my opinion.
@@CamerOneiric It was about the money. Viewership was down for the Olympics and the idiots in charge blamed it "boring wrestling " and the IJF in their panic (cause without the Olympics their revenue stream dries up) band below the belt te-waza. They know what they did was stupid and destructive, but refuse to admit they made a huge mistake.
I’d be fine with this. It enables classic Kodokan waza in competition without making matches a fight for ankle pics. I’d love to have sukui-nage, te-guruma and classic kataguruma back as counter options against taller opponents who just want to reach over me.
I’d still want morote-gari under certain conditions, which I’m glad you addressed
"I’d be fine with this. It enables classic Kodokan waza in competition without making matches a fight for ankle pics."
I favor those throws as well.
Bring them all back, Kuchicki taoshi etc!
That's what I'm saying dude. Te-guruma is a natural counter for an over the shoulder grip.
@@Kwisatz-Chaderach Exactly, without Te Guruma being legal there isn’t much of a countering attack to such a dominant grip.
As usual, another very informative & well articulated presentation ! "THANK YOU" for Your efforts & ALL that You do !
“Throw is the key Word for me” but nowdays at least 60/70% of throws are low kataguruma rolling, makikomi, seoi nage on knees and so on… I do not like when people like this take the power of decision over Judo. Why not vote for every federation and every judoka?
Should we just ban every effective technique because it becomes the meta? How long before we run out of techniques to ban?
The IJF should allow the following for sudden death - leg grabs, cross collar holding, cross sleeve holding, 2-on-1 Russian Ties, two hands to break the grip, ducking under the collar grips, and every other legittime thing that is banned now.
Chadi, the Mongolian guy threw the Japanese guy fair and sqaure. What are you on about? It wasn't even a "takedown", he lifted Suzuki up in the air and slammed him against the mat. For your information, that's called Judo.
Yep, and that all argument about how he didn't wanted to engage is pretty stupid...he knew what his weak points were, and he was being strategic, that's all.
It wasn't an ipon
@@mickrichy4455 Referee's fault ! Nothing to do with the judoka.
well said
He was stalling and running away the whole fight and was awarded a false ippon for sitting his opponent down and getting rolled to boot. No control or dominant slam in that double leg.
It wasn't a "problem". It was part of the game. All they had to do was start penalizing people for stalling if they thought that is what they were doing. The IJF did what they did because they were afraid that Judo would be removed from the Olympics and if that happened their source of funding would dry up. So let's cut the bullsh1t here and identify what happened for what it is.
Unfortunately the "ijf", as the "governing body" of JUDO, has become a "political entity" whose sole purpose is to justify it's own existence ! imho they have lost, or are well on their way of lossing, the TRUE SPIRIT of Our ART !
@Paul-nj5xh I agree fully. Judo used to be a martial art for the masses. Nowadays, it seems that top level people going for the elite level is all that matters. Back when I trained most, we had one group for exercise people and one for competition. I alternated. But in the exercise group, I remember there were two guys with brown belts and both were 65+. One was the instructor, but the other one was not. TBH, that class was more fun since we also trained some self-defence and experimented quite a lot, trying out new techniques and self defense issues. I used to show some Muay Thai skills and we often figured out together how a judoka could relate to those skills in a real life scenario, such as keeping some protecting hand guard and closing the distance. The competition class was good for what it was. Hard drilling to perfect your throws.
That is what Judo should be. And the rules were open. If you could find a way without slamming the head/body, attacking the spine, small joints and leg joints, it was fine. Top level judokas published books with "modern" throws or ne-waza techniques, that were not strictly in the curriculum, but worked.
Today, I don't know if there are even clubs that don't just have classes for kids, -25 year olds that go for the athletic elite and some old enthusiast trainers. At least not anywhere in my vicinity. Judo has lost it's soul and arguments around leg grabbing rules are just a symptom of that.
They were penalising stalling and people kept doing it. I read all the reports back in the day leading up to the change
Yep
@@WayneManifesto Obviously they didn't penalize them enough, if that was their game plan throughout the match. And a proper judoka should learn how to defend and counter leg attacks. What you are saying is that between 1964 and sometime in the mid 2000s, it worked but then it became a problem. During all this time, no second rate freestyle wrestler came up with the idea to transition into half baked judo to just stall and going for the legs.
Bring Judo back. Right now what we have essentially is Greco-Roman wrestling...
Taking out leg grabs was disgraceful, Dr Kano had leg grabs in his system for a reason. Sambo is gaining in popularity and don’t be surprised if Sambo replaces Judo as an Olympic sport.
On behalf of Sambo, we want nothing to do with the IOC, they ruin everything they touch
One can only hope
If you added chokes to Sambo it would basically become old judo
Don't make SAMBO into an Olympic sport man, they'll just water it down like Sports Karate and Taekwondo.
@@defaultset actually that is a good point. And is one of the main reasons why I want to learn Sambo because it hasn't been watered down like Judo.
Regardless of trajectory or any speculation on what MIGHT happen, the founder, as you said, *intended* for leg wraps go be included.
Someone else said it best: "Judo is a martial art."
We cannot limit the style because of preference. Limiting, in my opinion, is the "cop out.”
Katie's takedown is beautiful. We agree. Just because someone else's takedown is less aesthetic is a very shallow and not a "cop out." Some people dont like foot sweeps, and many times they don't end with ippon - should we ban those, too?
Desperate double and single legs are just like any other "hail mary" move: easy to counter and avoid. That the Mongolian Olympic **champ** gets away with it.. isnt really an argument - thats why he's champ. Furthermore, if his tactic to frustrate and tire his opponent and wait for a blast double - it's up to *the ref* to make sure there is no stalling. The appropriate response is NOT penalizing ALL judoka who use leg wraps.
That's a similar argument to people who dislike Floyd Mayweather - does that make his style and record invalid? A lot of people say he "run,” too.
If we are going to cultivate a martial art, not just a stylistic one, then there isn't many rational arguments to prohibit leg wraps. In my opinion, all of your objections were aesthetic in their criticism, as opposed to their practicality, and that SOME will do desperate leg dives doesn't really make them less effective or worthy if being included.
It is beautiful when a sport actually evolved into something better while leaving the art still open to be practiced outside competition. That's what a real sport does, evolves instead of sticking to something because that's how we used to do it. The art itself has everything including defending against weapon attacks, the competition can change to something that makes it a better sport. Being a great sport also benefits everyone outside the international competition too, the trickle down effect of interest is a real thing. We can always go back to our old VHS and watch some beautiful leg grab bail outing if we feel like admiring it.
Why clickbait chadi? I didnt expect it from you bro
fr i knew it was too good to be true so he had to be clickbaiting
I'd be happy to see people basically get rocketed into space via crazy high amplitude leg grabs. It would spectator friendly for sure!😂
In an effort to distinguish judo from wrestling or now... BJJ... I don't think the leg grabs are ever going to come back until BJJ dominates the market to the point that judo becomes like... fencing... only done in certain colleges, small clubs, and the Olympics.
@@ReflectionmaterialIBJJF's? The one that dominates the market?
@Reflectionmaterial who cares about watching? IBJJF's is still the most practiced in the countless comps that happens almost every day over the world.
@@Reflectionmaterial the Olympics destroyed every single martial art it touched. The last thing any BJJ practicioner should want if for it to make it to the Olympic games.
I honestly dont see how there should be an argument or debate where this is concerned......if you are looking for upward trajectory when attacking to score......so be it....but if it goes otherwise, the referee should allow the newaza to continue.....rather than call matte.....
I agree 100% Chadi. Morote Gari as tukui waza or only waza became an all too common occurance in early/mid 2000's, even at high level matches and it took away from the Judo 'Art' aspect. PS: the kata garuma with finish in the rearward direction is more dangerous for uke than the other versions. I think it should be used with caution in shiai, and only by the advanced and physically fit judoka, but this is from my personal experience, tori having 1x lost his grip & control, thereby dumping me onto my head and neck.
As much as I respect Neil Adams, he should have shut his mouth from the beginning. Who cares "wrestlers" (or anyone else) came to judo as long as they were playing under the rules. You still have to qualify first !!! I totally agree about banned techniques because of their dangerosity. But banning leg grabs and ankle picks just to look good on tv ? Come on...They also should review their standards about what exactly is a real Ippon. It is not just rolling the other on his back after a partially missed throw (well, if you do judo, you know what I mean).
My solution:
Keep things mostly as they are above the waist to give everyone a chance to hit high amplitude throws, increase the chances of high amplitude throws by also allowing greater latitude for belt gripping during gripfighting because the hip control usually means big throws, and bring back all leg grabs, including ankle picks and such, but not during regulation time - only during golden score.
Chadi, I totally agree😊
leg picks is that golthorpe used to do because he liked ground work. hence he took up gracie JJ in his 50s.
The question I will pose is: what is defined as"lift"? How much must one competitor be taken off the ground to consider it to have upward trajectory and count as a lift? I am not meaning to be difficult but one referee to another will have a different interpretation. To say "more than 1 centimetre" well, was it 11 millimetres or 9 millimetres? From how far away can you tell?
Hi @Chadi, I was just wondering have you seen the videos explaining the ruleset for ref's for AAU (Amateur Athletic Union) Freestyle Judo compititions? It is much more like the Kodokan ruleset, and a departure from IJF style compititions.
ua-cam.com/video/gGoGKCFPfkU/v-deo.htmlsi=uJcR6NjEsCY98GSK
Wait I don’t get it, the title says they’re being brought back, but the video says _if_ they were to come back? Which is it?
Clickbait title😢
Maybe it was an editing issue? Maybe he meant "IJF is considering bringing back..." or "discussing". I want to give @Chadi the benefit of the doubt on this one
In my experience the Jiu Jitsu guys who turned up in judo competitions who just wanted to get into ne waza would more often use a sacrifice technique like tomoe nage or sumi gaeshi if they wanted to get there as they can essentially be used to pull guard. The problem of false attacks is found in plenty of throws that are still legal
Finally, It is about time that IJF realized what a mistake thy made by banning leg grabbing techniquesh grabbinb techniqueseby banning leg grabbing techniques. znow maybe we can get back to what Dr. Kano envisioned judo to betwith the full range of judo techniques.
I had to give this a thumbs down because it's another bait and switch just to get clicks and drive advertising revenue. The description promises one thing, but the video delivers the opposite. Leaves me feeling cheated.
Chadi, when are you going to make a video addressing the real issue, which is POOR REFEREEING? When did low stance stopped being penalized by Shido? When and why the scoring became so lame? Who decided or was and is being negligent with that? If the refereeing stood firm, I doubt Judo had lost so much of its characteristics.
I think what this comes down to is whether you actually care about self defence. If you don’t then ok, though I would point out that Jigoro Kano has entered the chat.
From a self defence point of view, the purpose of competition is to encourage participants to hone skills that will transfer well to self defence.
A skilled judoka should be able to impose his game on me. If simply bending over stops him from throwing me and I can take him down just by grabbing his leg then this is a flaw with judo and the art needs to evolve, even if it means that certain aesthetically pleasing techniques fall out of favour. If he needs to get the referee to intervene to force me to fight in a less effective way that will enable him to defeat me then he is the one copping out.
Also, aiming to go for the legs and then win on the ground is not “stalling” or “running away”. It is an offensive strategy and a good one at that. If you disagree with this, lift the ban and let the skilled judoka teach me a lesson.
If the issue is that you want to encourage the strategy of using throws as your main weapon with newaza as backup then you can do this via scoring criteria.
To me, the biggest irony of all of this (and the one that blows the excuse of “we want to encourage an offensive mindset” out of the water) is the ban on the double-handed same-side grip. I used to use it as the cornerstone of my offence in order to break through stiff arms and yet I was told I wasn’t allowed to use it?
People have always criticised judo for being “just a sport” that lacks self defence applicability. There was a time when I would have strongly disagreed with those people. Nowadays, I think they’re right.
Excelente, me ha alegrado el día esta noticia, sobre todo porque mi técnica favorita es el morote gari
It is so sad that Neil Adams admitted the big throws (uchi mata etc.) are biomechanically difficult and the fancy throws rather than effective and simple ones are being incentivised which makes me afraid of Judo becoming less effective of a fighting sport and more of a coreography, though I'm glad we are not at that stage yet. I mean even the Judo kata is becoming popular, so... Bruh.
@@Reflectionmaterial well, simpler ones such as bodylock and leg trip combinations, also those that include leg grabs plus all the grecoroman-like throws.
@@Reflectionmaterial that's what I meant. Those grecoroman throws coupled with leg trips from upright stance in the clinch (not the bent freestyle stance) are easier and more effective in my experience.
@@Reflectionmaterial It's not mainstream is what I meant.
@@Reflectionmaterial oh, okay. I did not know (or realise) that Japanese beat them, I'll look into it. Thanks.
Being difficult does not mean they are ineffective, it just requires a greater degree of mastery to be used effectively. A seoi nage is more likely to kill someone than a morote gari if that is your goal. But a bad morote gari is more likely to work than a bad seoi nage.
"the less skillful players were winning too much" 🤣🤣🤣
That sentence killed me too...I think I would have lost a tooth if I had said something that stupid.
Biggest cope
Chadi there are several points here which are unusual to put it politely
1. You relegate the importance of ground work as if it something we do if we have to and that it is nowhere near as important as standing and throwing.
2. Kurash throws are high amplitude and have many traditional throws that are used in Judo not to mention it (kurash) and Sumo which you both seemed to refer to as non artistic or inferior are much older and have a greater history than Judo.
3. There are leg attacks that are part of the curriculum and have names for them following the latest 'rule' if you can name it it is a throw.
Here’s an idea…learn to defend leg grabs. I had two judokas on my collegiate wrestling team in the late 90s early 2000s. They were absolutely terrifying to wrestle against. They didn’t mind you grabbing their legs because you were playing into their game if you were pushing. It’s because they did judo under a ruleset where they had to defend leg attacks. Bring back leg attacks and stop making excuses for getting taken down by techniques you could learn how to defend. They both hit giant throws in D1 competition against people who attacked their legs
Best news in the last 10 years
If the IJF wants to encourage massive throws, instead of constant leg grabs it could've just simply implemented a rule set where leg grabs score less instead of banning them entirely.
Idk times have changed and ijf judo gonna have to start listening to what people want and not impose what they want..or one day you might be an organization with lack of participation because students went else where like bjj, wrestling or mma
We need to come back to the old rule just before the interdiction of legs grab.
If they would legalize guillotine choke maybe they could put back the leg takedown but its to easy to take down people with the leg if you dont have to defend the guillotine. Go in jiujitsu if you want to do leg technique ...at least if you do them wrong people will counter you properly...
The scoring system that is in place now will encourage big and or clean takedowns. Encourage more newaza to counter act stalling by allowing the lifting of the head for hadakjime and flying armbars. Im sick of choosing esthetics over the concept of, "Maximum Efficiency, Minimum Effort", because it doesnt look good
Bring back leg grab take downs and winning when you lift someone into guard slam position
Daki age
The issue is not allowing takedowns for the sake of takedowns or not allowing pickups for the sake of pickups but remembering one of Jigoro Kano's teachings that the art of judo instructs a smaller opponent of how to counter a larger, heavier and stronger opponent. An example would be Fred Blaney was an Canadian judoka. He competed in the men's open category event at the 1984 Summer Olympics. Blaney upset and embarrassed heavily favored Dewey Mitchell in round 16 of the 1984 Olympics. Mitchell was the captain of the US Olympic Judo Team. Another example would be at Beijing 2008, judoka Naidan Tüvshinbayar earned Mongolia its first-ever Olympic gold. By denying takedowns and pickups to the sport of judo it appears that "the powers to be" in judo want to protect the status quo. Modified Olympic Judo is boring and limits the thrilling spectacle of upsets. Who does not applaud the courage of a smaller person defeating a heavily favored opponent? The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat.
leg grabbing is part of judo as it´s part of any other grappling sport, they should have never been banned
So the most effective part of Judo is wrestling? Mmmm... Interesting.....
How good is your judo if you can’t defend an ankle pick from an unskilled opponent?
You would need to be skilled to take a Good judo player of his feet with a ankle pick. We have amazing balance, speed and base. That being said they should allow leg grabs in Judo again.
It's a martial art. All rules weaken a martial art so If a technique is safe to train and helps you to win a fight it should be allowed. People who want to make rules based on subjective opinions of style have forgotten what Judo was for and why people would choose to learn it.... It is obvious to most people where that road is going to end.
Judo should evolve not devolve. Some of the ippons given nowadays would have even scored a koka, I see them all the time some roll onto the back without force, so they should not score ippon. Even Morote Gari can be done with skill and force and if done correctly would finish an opponent. Ippon was explained to me, that it should have speed, technique, landing mainly on the back with force and importantly appear a little brutal... If you have to think about a score, it has to be waza-ari (almost point) because it lacks one of the elements. Judo is a self-defence form with a sporting side, the throw is to stun the opponent, then control and then finish.
That sounds like a good middle ground.
To me the objective is to bring uke down to the ground and landing in a control position. Throwing uke and ending up in a vulnerable position should not be rewarded. You should always in land in a dominant position.
I couldn’t agree more.
@@Reflectionmaterial what’s bothering me is when tori ends up in a vulnerable position after throwing.
Neil Adams ranting about leg picks not being throws and just takedowns, but we're seeing awful techniques being called for ippon nowadays where the opponent is simply being rolled onto their back. It's no better
They should bring back leg throws but not give a Ippon for it. Just give the smallest fraction of a point.
The IJF/IOC knew wrestling was on the Olympic chopping block and if it fell their sport would be besieged with Hairy Russians, Muslims and Mongolians... they immediately clutched their pearls and got rid of every wrestling technique they possibly could because they were far more interested in the marketable economies of Western Europe and Elite Asia since they had totally commercialized the games, Coke and McDonald's don't want champions from poor countries that don't consume their products
🔥💥🌟
he says that leg picks to newaza as a bad thing, as if that's not a completely legitimate side of judo, its' not just the big throws it's also getting someone to the ground to quickly beat them in newaza. If they ever bring it back, it's too late, the intervening 15 years have already made the techniques forgotten and raised a generatiopn that has no idea of morote gari etc
Considering Neil won his most famous match on the mat via arm bar not with a throw.
IJF has just ^admitted" that sambo is a more complete fighting system...(CAMO beats both)..
I am a gracie purple belt. I was instructed by jovani varela (a gokor peotege who has achieved beyond 2 stripes on his blackbelt under the grocie system under renaldo
So...they will put back again or not? Just say yes or no
Good, it was quite silly to ban them all and they stopped te guruma, a staple technique and great counter, to name but one. Bring back koka and yuko too, many ippon throws are koka and yuko in all honesty and this will stop it.
I see Absolutely nothing wrong with the lower leg and ankle take-downs. Perhaps instead of banning it, why not come up with methods to counter it???
Sure, specificity-wise, judo is judo: aiming for big throws within the narrow definition of ippon…
But please don’t call leg-grabs/ankle-picks “petty” or unskilled. Sure, it doesn’t fit within rubric of judo (similar to how an elbow from Muay Thai is out of place in boxing). But watch Cael Sanderson win the freestyle 2008 gold and tell me ankle picks are not skilful… the timing, angles and commitment required are considerable.
Also a big reason people hate the leg attack ban is because, in the context of grappling as it applies to fighting, these are highly effective techniques. If judo became less judo and got closer to BJJ/wrestling, it would be MORE effective. Scoring and ground time could still be judo as it is. Because of its innate conservatism, judo hamstrings itself.
10:30, weird how the mongolian got an ippon. His opponent clearly landed on his butt. Yuko at best.
The core problem is sportification itself. I get the value of competition but I'm starting to believe Judo should not be competative anymore. This does not mean taking away randori or anything, or maybe I'm wrong. Somehow the spirit of Judo must be maintained, and that means, judges, referees, and instructors have a responsibility to uphold that in their students otherwise they should not be allowed to compete.
Oh yeah... one more thing... there is something very wrong with their thought processes. If you want to encourage more throwing, don't ban something that has always been a part of the art... modify the point system. If banning part of the art is the only way to encourage throwing, then they should ban newaza, the reason most do takedowns and leg grabs in the first place. But no... we keep stupid things like "turtling" but ban leg grabs. At least leg grabs shows an effort to attack.
To be the devil's advocate. Turtling may be stupid, but why not improve your skills on attacking the turtle. Regular stuff back in the days.
@@Reflectionmaterial same thing people spam knees sodes and seoi nages, people keep gaming the system and stalling. problem is the score system not the tecniques
You have some points, but penalize them for stalling, award no score for an ugly "takedown", because if you land in a bad position you cannot explosively move on to ne-waza, and that is what should be the main difference between judo and BJJ. Leg grabs or ankle picks by themselves are not the issue. The scoring system is. It is bad as it is.
As far as I'm aware leg grabs were only removed around 20 years ago and for the other 80 years they were included. I completely disagree with Chadi on this point, but anyway keep up the good work
Actually only 10 years ago when the decision was final. From 2009 you could still use leg grabs in counter. In 2013, they were outright banned.
WHY NOT make leg grab only score when it's done standing or used as a counter?
Why on earth they do not let Judo be Judo. All these unbearable safety rules transformed a beautiful, magnificent sport into crap. I understand that to remove some very dangerous techniques but it has gone far too far with this safety crap.
@@Reflectionmaterial I understand that but I was talking about techniques banned for safety. In every sport, in life itself there's a risk factor and that cannot be eliminated. Removing 90% of Judo techniques almost completely killed the sport.
I used to think they should have brought back leg attacks but, Judo is a throwing sport.
People forget, Judo is a sport, BJJ is a sport, Wrestling is a sport. Encourage the main element of the sport. If you want a pure self defense system - train in Traditional JuJutsu and spar and stress test a lot.
Well wrestling is definitely a sport. Granted you can definitely make it a martial art if you so choose to.
But the basis for judo and BJJ is that self-defense aspect. They are first and foremost a martial art. That’s what they were intended for originally. Great did you should try to make it safe to actually train to martial arts regularly in the first place. That’s why there are some rules.
So I don’t quite see where you’re coming from. Unless you specifically want to join the gym that is trying to get people into the Olympics.
Wrong, bring back traditional Judo for Martial Arts. It was a martial art before a sport
Judo and BJJ both have self-defense curriculum, and Judo has “Jujutsu” through kata and atemi-waza. Focusing exclusively on the sports aspect removes a lot of the other elements of Judo. Should people have to move to Japan and enter the Kodokan just to learn those elements?
Also, good luck finding a legitimate historical Jujutsu school outside Japan that isn’t just a modern Judo-Aikido-Karate hybrid.
You are delusional if you think those Sports which you named are not self defense. Further more i have boxed ( a sport) for twenty years. An i have personally knocked out a (pure jiu jitsu guy) not once but twice. Your point is absurd at best lol
Here to small victories if they do.
Judo needs to change, i agree with having different styles of judo similar to wrestling. I feel jiu jitsu needs to change and should learn stand up. I would like to see a no gi version of judo as well. I love all the grappling arts as a whole. I do a little stand up in jiu jitsu but i have ti work everyand im older. I cannot afford to get hurt this day and age.
Judo does not need to change. RULES do !
In freestyle judo they have a no gi division
Your title is misleading. They are not bringing back anything. But I guess it works as a clickbait.
Judoka are unbelievably smug.
Chadi . I am a judoka an sambo guy. An i understand where you are coming from. However, banning all leg grabs creates also a Huge issue. Which is top level Judoka cannot defend there legs. An this is a problem when in fact Judo first an foremost is a self defense art. Period. To say otherwise is simply not accurate. An to move forward thinking that because the sport needs to be focused on big throws and or movements that somehow we can eliminate leg grabs is simply a cop out on the Judo player for Not effectively defending them . I don't know how you can see it any different. I have been in dozens of competitions an practices over the years where the wrestler bails on gripping an goes for a leg . An i have defended every time. What is the issue with that? I would like your response. Thank you
You are 💯 correct and i can tell you at 47 yrs old i have been in 100s of situations with Judo an Sambo where my legs have been attacked. Over the last 30 years i have like i stated before dozens of times where a wrestler has shot a takedown. I defended. What's so hard to get here .
Judo players need to defend there legs. It is as simple as that. When you have someone say Ono who was my favorite player last decade. An every time i think of him going against a well seasoned high school wrestler with a good shot. ...it makes me cringe. Lets all be honest here folks
@@Reflectionmaterial then there should be rules to such
@@Reflectionmaterial you are wrong . If the Greco Wrestler knows how to defend he will do fine .
I mostly miss being allowed to use a hand on the leg during ko uchi maki komi, but this doesn't really have an upwards trajectory so I'm not really behind this reasoning.
I'm not into this, where do you draw the thin line between "upwards movement" and "downwards / no upwards movement"? Punish someone who tries a positive pick up but Uke defends by not letting him pick up / not allowing upwards movement? Just allow it back up and punish non competitive behaviour with known possibilities: false attack, bent-over posture, unothodox gripping (on the leg). I know that this won't happen but that would be my choice.
E. g. can you clearly define the difference between seoi otoshi (drop seoi on the knees without going back up) and drop seoi nage, where you have an upwards movement after dropping onto the knees every single time? You will have to evaluate this with the leg grab and you will have to decide if there is an intention to lift or not.
I don't see how an osoto is any different from an outside ankle pick
It's the same mechanism, the only difference is the attacker choosing to drive with their leg or their arm but the effect on uke is the same
These rules are just a way to artificially force judo into looking the way these people in charge want judo to look instead of accepting it as it is
I feel like judo’s problem has always been that the people controlling the direction of the art define it by what it is not, even Kano himself. It’s not bjj, so ne-waza is ignored, leg grabs are inferior because they take less skill. Joint locks are too jujutsu. Strikes are too karate. Less and less of the curriculum makes it to the next generation because techniques are judged to be ”too something else”. All that will remain are the flashiest throws and a neutered sport because it looks nicer on camera.
How about allowing one leg grab per fighter per match as a compromise.
What I really don't like is the rule of giving points only if the opponent lands on his back
@@Reflectionmaterial No, points for any takedown, even if the opponent falls on his front
@@Reflectionmaterial I'm not very familiar to Sport Sambo point system but I believe it is in that direction
part of the reason i think they got rid of leg grabs was cause instead of actually learning judo people were starting to just blast double legs in competitions like you show in the video
Double legs are part of judo, morote gari is in the gokyo and is not what we can call a "dangerous" technique. Not more dangerous than uchi mata or seoi nage...
@@danle3181 the problem was that some coaches were not teaching judo, they were only teaching the double leg in order to win competitions
@@kerpal321 So what ? It's up to others to learn how to defend them, that's also a part of judo. Once you can defend properly, they won't try anymore...
If a double leg is more effective than a throw then maybe get better at countering.
@@nathanbedfordforrest9546 they werent teaching countering, they were only teaching double leg which is what the problem was
Good wrestling beats all. Where is the judoka who can beat Jordan Burroughs or Kyle DAKE or Vito Arujau in a grappling match?
If there is no lift and it's just to stall or enter ground work it's a false attack. Just bending down could be called defensive posture
Ok soo why not have leg grabs? You literally just made the point
Further more if a Judoka cannot defend there legs . They are not a true Judoka. Period end of discussion
I never said I was arguing against them
I was literally saying that if the penalties were called correctly in the first place, they would have never needed to remove them
Just bring back leg grabs and be done with all the discussion.
Maybe limit how many legs grabs a fighter can do in a contest
The argument of making everything classic kodokan waza etc....is horseshit, if such is the case why do we argue that judo is for everyone? If i cant throw as good as the next person...thats just me....its a matter of individuality....i might not be able to throw as good as another person but i compensate for it in newaza......you tell such a person as a coach.....look, im aware you cant throw as good as other folks, but we can find a way that you can use to skilfully get your opponents to the ground.....judo is being treated solely as a sport and its sickening....these rules are for tv......tv rules....
Just bring back leg grabs. Why be so rational and overthinking???? Just have FUN
What about a leg grab with Ouchi or kouchi
He sounds defensive as hell. I don't like takedowns but it's part of self defense
I was thinking the same. Maybe it'd make more sense if it came with the video but it sounded like he was talking in circles.
@@coffeeortea547 I obviously know jack shit about Judo compared to him but I just don't like the rule
It just seems so arbitrary
Throws ARE a form of takedown. What the heck?
So is there a date or any type of info being released from the IJF saying that they are thinking of allowing Leg grabs again? If any body has info put a link in comment section please!
I don't think there's a date. The title is a bit click-baity. The clip in the video is just Neil Adams giving his personal opinions, I don't know if there are any news regarding leg picks coming back
@@devilsadvocate6098 oh bummer, thanks anyways
@@devilsadvocate6098 Ironically when he was an advisor for IJF and olympic judo he was the one who got rid of leg grabs. I remember ray stevens saying about it at a seminar.
About time so many participants have migrated AWAY from Judo because of the idiotic rule changes
Why couldn't Suzuki defend? it's so 'basic'
Judo without leg attacks is as cringe as modern point karate…. Garbage
Upwards in trajectory in a sport riddled with drip throws with no commitment...
To add to the above. How is a "takedown" with subsequent pin or submission not skillful? Calling it pathetic is extremely disrespectful. Repeated drops to the knees in search of a singular seoi nage or dropping to bail out of a bad attack is bad behaviour.
So they aren’t bringing them back?
Love your content but I disagree, I think it makes stronger Judoka’s and yea it would look more like Jiujitsu and you would see a lot of newaza . In my opinion that makes it a more effective art. But I do know you want to preserve the big throws witch ate very beautiful to see.
So instead of learning how to stop a shot you change the rules, that's the cowards way out.
Same stupid reason that the Gracie's hated leg locks for so long.
Or the stupidity that is Olympic taekwondo that does not allow punches to the face.
Learn how to deal with techniques.