280Ah and 135Ah batteries with different BMS in parallel. See what happens when discharging...
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- Опубліковано 29 гру 2022
- After the discharge test of the single #Seplos Mason 280 battery in the last video, I have connected both batteries together again as a unit. We now have the 280Ah battery and 150A BMS in parallel with the 135Ah and 100A BMS. As I explained in the video, this is not recommended by Seplos, but I wanted to know if it works or if there are any major issues. So, different capacity and different BMS in each of the boxes.
Of course, I have also connected and configured the communication between both battery banks and enabled RS485 comms back to the computer, so we can monitor everything while discharging.
It is really interesting to watch the batteries while discharging and we can learn a lot from this setup. I really think, this is working great. At least, when discharging....
In terms of the communication, I'm not sure what benefit we got out of that. Both battery banks reacted the exact same way as any other standalone BMS would do
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Andy, I don't comment often but just wanted to say, you're a gem! A lot of what I'm learning from your channel is theoretical as I may never build as system that puts all of this in practice (some but not all), but it's just a pleasure to 'hang out' with you. Thanks for all the time and effort you put into your channel.
Hi Andy, i run 3 Batteries (24V) in parallel. 150Ah, 280Ah and 560Ah. The oldest is over 3 years old and they run 24/7 with no communication. Up until now I've never had any problems, they behave exactly like the ones you showed. Greetings from Germany.
Welche BMS nutz Du?
@@marcelprivat 2x Daly und 1x HiBMS, alle ohne Balancer (bzw. nur mit dem 30mA Onboard). Ich lade meine Zellen beim bau der Batterie immer mit einem Labornetzteil auf 3,65V. Selbst bei der ältesten 3 Jahre alten Batterie sind die noch immer 1A, kein drift und das obwohl die schon ~600 volle Zyklen hat.
Ya In the end it is better to have all cells same. The 150 a will lose cell first maybe then the others one at a time. But you have a poorer decision making then if you add new cell will result poorer reliability and useful ness. It is better to use same cells. So if you want bigger should be 150ah, 300 ah then 300ah, 300ah,. 150ah und so on and on.
@@x3n4t0r ich habe auch vor eine 100Ah an die vorhandene Bank aus 560Ah zu hängen. Ich kannte ja das erste Video wo Andy den krassen Versuch gemacht hat. Also ist das Problemlos möglich. Die 100Ah ist mein 1. Versuch gewesen vor 5Jahren. Seitdem steht sie rum. Achso ich habe alle durch JKBMS ersetzt.
Can you tell us the 3 battery brands and ages?
Also did you test or determine what your combined amp hours ?
I have 4 - 24v new batteries one set is 100ah and 200ah and want to connect them in series …..
Hi Andy! Thank you for another great video. With all your videos you made me a solar nerd too ;). Just wanted to wish you, your loved ones and the shed a Happy New Year! 🎉 Take care🤗
Great test, and I reckon they did pretty well discharging proportionally. The comms between the batteries to the PC was present and you were able to see both packs, but do we know for sure that the BMS's were communicating with each other, this would be very difficult to determine. More testing needed....HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!
Lots of comments, but I didn't see much about the RS485. It is a Master-Slave communications. It does not allow Slave-Slave communications. Only the Master (the PC) can poll via address one slave at a time and retrieve one slaves data, then switch to a poll of the other address to retrieve its data. The only thing that the cable between batteries does is to connect in parallel all data communications lines, 2 for transmit from the computer, and 2 for receive by the computer. The address that the computer sends in the poll determines which slave will answer.
Thank you for the demo of different battery capacities in parallel. This matches my findings. I think that the only reason that manufacturers don't recommend this is they don't want people to by another companies batteries so they threaten to void the warranty if you combine different batteries. I have experimented with 6 totally different brands of battery and many different BMS. As long as the cell chemistry matches they are fine in parallel. Just don't tell the manufacturer or the sales people.
Good morning
I just read your comments on setting // different battery
so what you are saying is that there is no need to put a special module on each battery pack to make // between the 2 packs?
I have a pack of 9S 200 AH brand Winston LFP (almost new)
and another pack that I built from 9S to 1000AH in EVE brand LFP
I can assemble the 2 packs together + with + and - with - the amperage will add up?
I understood that before putting in // the 2 packs they must be charged at the same voltage and 3.65 volts per cell
what do you think?
no risk?
and regarding the wiring on my pure sine converter
if I put the 2 packs together in parallel, do I take the + from which pack?
and the - of the other pack? or 2 cables for each pole?
THANKS
laurent
ps: I was thinking of buying 2 modules and 2 special BMS from Dally to do the setup // I'm thinking!
Great experiment an d great video. Exactly what I’ve been looking for! Thank you, Andy!
Another great video. I have enjoyed watching your videos for a couple of years.
Awesome, thank you!
Just got 8 cells delivered the other day, in the process of charging and capacity testing now, your video helps the time pass :)
Really interesting experiment! I love your videos!
Wish you happy new year, from Romania, wery happy to find your channel
Thanks Andy! Interesting information, as we all learn along the journey!
Another informative video.
Thank you Andy😊
My pleasure!
Hilarious every time have looked up a question I get this channel as first suggestion.. even when not on my account that has been subscribed. Great job on handling answers to iffy questions out there on Solar equipment. Thanks
Really good experiment and informative video, Thank you
Perfect timing of this video I was doing a very similar test today myself, with a 50Ah and 75Ah battery in parallel. My results were very similar to yours.
Great, thanks for the information.
This just shows how much marketing is pushed at mostly unknowing consumers. Good work Andy!
great test!
Thanks Andy, Happy New Year to you and your family 🎉🎊
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Hi Andy, thanks to your educative videos. I recently installed my second offgrid system with JK Bms.
My new 11Kw inverter (Tommatech) is new model and I can see all data and make setup changes remotely with my mobile phone 4G internet connection. Stay connected.
Wish you and your followers a happy new year.
Sounds interesting, do you have a link to ur new Tommatech 11kw? Is it a Hybrid or AIO? Cheers
Another Great vid! I always wondered the same with all the comms. Maybe its just seeing everything on a pc in one place. Shirt looks great on you!!💥🤘
Great test Andy, thx a lot.
Value from the communication would for me be that the "system" reports total view of the battery bank.
Happy new year !
Thanks for the well conducted test Andy. It turned out pretty much the same as I've observed paralleling smaller EV and eBike Battery packs. I also tested a 300watt hour, 120amp 13S Li-Ion pack with a 600wh 16S LifePo4 pack in parallel and the result was essentially the same. I did like how the Li-Ion pack improved hi-load response and the LifePo4 pack stabilized voltage drop, together the two different chemistries complemented each other very well. I was also able to charge them in Parallel to 54.6v using a Li-Ion changer with no issues, and still got about 98% capacity out of the LifePo4 pack.
I believe there's a simple mathematical relationship that captures this. If you overlay the charging curves of each of your packs, then each pack will receive current in inverse proportion to the slope of their charging curves at this charging voltage. Steepest curve gets the least current. Complicated because each chemistry also changes its curve based on charging rate.
In other words... Q: how many Ah does each of these packs need to increase their charging voltage by 0.0001V? A: The system voltage can't increase until every battery has received those Ah, and more/less Ah means more/less amps to keep them in balance.
Question for you - you'd expect cell types to sag their cell voltage differently if you suddenly cut charging. Does that give you voltage imbalances between the packs?
That was very very informative 👏👏👏 please continue on defrent capacity batteries in parallel
Thank you Andy always the best
Best regards from Philippines 🇵🇭☕☕
I guess the main advantage of a communication is the ease of checking the status. You don't have to connect to all banks separately but have a single POC.
Guten Rutsch!😁
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Another peek into the window of how these batteries and BMS's work. I , like you, do not see what the communication did, if anything.
Thanks Andy for once again adding to the understanding of LifePo4 world.
Wow, this video is very interesting but a little above my pay grade as I have a humble 200 watt Renogy starter kit with a Redodo 100AH lifepo and want to get another one to have 200AH, but the batteries will be 7 months apart in age and worried about them working OK together. Love this channel and learning alot. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Paralleling your batteries should be no problem. Just ensure, each has their own BMS.
Hey Andy, the main purpose of the comms cable to the Victron that I can see is to dynamically control the charge and discharge limits. I have had 4 of these BMS packs @ 100ah each for about 6 months. The other details such as temperature, highest and lowest cells and which sets are currently running. I did have a BMS cell cable that came loose and disconnected the entire supply which is of course not desirable for redundancy. Thanks, Matt.
Heya that is a nice test to see the differant batteries are working independently of each other so your using all the capacity from each battery pack
At that point before you charge them I would balance all cells to see if that makes a difference in total capacity next test. I have 4 battery packs. I used to see a big difference between each BMS state of charge when I first setup my system. Now they are within 3% when I used to have 25%. I top balance at 3.3v to .004 as my setting is .005. I would think in another month my packs should be between 1% since all cells came in 1 shipment. Very interesting regardless. Another great video Andy thank you.
This is really interesting. Received wisdom is all batteries should be twins. Same make, capacity, age etc. This test appears to show that with lifepo4 this does not have to be the case. I guess all batteries should be in similar condition. But it does mean that if, when we setup our system, we didn't have enough capacity, we can add to it if required. Great video. Thanks.
Thank you again Andy for this great video and the last of this Year!
We could see that the 135Ah battery is efficient!!! when discharging at end of charge with 60A!
The cells follow each other well! impressive!,
About the communication of BMS between them, it's not true! It's certain!! the connection cables between them is only used for monitoring, only.
I have been using this type of battery for several years, and I have noticed that the BMS do not communicate with each other?!
this is just for monitoring.
and to me this BMS communication story is just marketing.😆🤣
I wish you a happy new year Andy🎊🎉🎈, and thank you again for your quality videos.
Happy New Year everyone!✨🎉
Hey Andy I got 8 200 ah plastic encased prismatic cells for 400.00 they go for 1,000 something for 4 of them ! These where in those KS2 corp road trek battery boxes with a weird bms setup but I'm running a vnszr/Daly 200 amp 4s 12 v BMS this setup is working awesome
Hi Andy, I would replace the 3 batteries in the big pack which are not right, that gives a better equalisation of the pack and a better representation of the actual state. Gives ease of mind also. I wish you "ein guten rutsch ins neue jahr" which is in a half hour. I really enjoyed your footage!
Great test Andy, and you nailed it on the need for proper communication and simultaneous low voltage shutdown. There might also be some paralleling safety issues with the smaller battery as well due to the presence of the big battery. I would be a bit concerned over the worst case amperage on that smaller battery if the firmware doesn't do its job right when shutting everything down.
Simultaneous low voltage shutdown would negate any benefit of having larger capacity batteries in the bank. As soon as the any one of the batteries run out, all the other batteries which still have capacity would be shut down too = major loss of capacity. If all the cells in the larger battery were balanced, both batteries should share the load according to their capacity & discharge fairly evenly.
@@arthureschner9319 Remember that when batteries are connected in parallel, the voltage is the same for all of them. So when you hit the low-voltage shutdown it is because ALL of the batteries have reached that voltage.
Even if a battery, due to differing SOCs, runs out of gas earlier, its voltage will still be locked to and propped up by the other batteries. It simply won't contribute much in the way of current.
Where the problem lies is that depending on the BMS low-voltage shutdown... the BMS in each battery will trigger at different times. More or less around the same time, but probably differing from seconds to a minute or two verses the other batteries. This can cause assumed current sharing to devolve down to a single battery taking the full load of the system which we definitely never want to have happen.
In anycase, this points to the fact that nobody should EVER depend on the BMS in the batteries to handle either the low-voltage shutdown condition or the high-voltage shutdown (charge complete) condition. Whether they are synchronized or not.
The inverter should handle the low-voltage shutdown itself, by turning itself off, at least 0.10V higher than the BMS in the battery would otherwise trigger its low-voltage shutdown.
And similarly, the charge controllers in the system should handle the fully-charged condition by limiting the voltage to 3.55V/cell (enough so the BMS can balance the cells), then stay there and not go higher. Because you absolutely do not want to trigger the BMS's high-voltage shutdown condition (usually at 3.65V).
Of course, the charge controller doesn't know what the individual cell voltages are, but you still program it that way x N cells. So on a 24V battery, for example, you would program it to go no higher than 28.4V (3.55V/cell). If the cells are reasonably balanced, the BMS's high-voltage shutdown will not trigger. If they aren't, then it might, but at least it will happen while the current is trailing off and low.
Ultimately the BMS in the batteries will sort things out. The cells will get balanced, the differing SOCs of the multiple batteries placed in parallel will equalize. It might take three or four full charge/discharge cycles to do it, but it will do it. Which means, most of the time, you can safely connect batteries up in parallel as long as their voltages are the same, even if their SOCs are not. Just take some care and exercise them through a few cycles before really putting on the big loads and the system will be fine.
-Matt
Sehr interessant. Danke
Agree have done the same on my Ebike tours. Weak point is always the bms.
Happy new year Andy 👍
Happy new year!
The only proposed to the comunicación between packs is to communicate to the inverter all of the packs states . If you conect the master pack to the inverter and both packs between them connected. If one of them have some alarm that means to stop the inverter this is what will happens. Is not really good method always. I have 2 seplos working and I just have both working w/o comunicación between them and just one to the inverter . Nice test I suppose that this is not a problem because the voltage of the battery make both to work together .Thanks Andy !
Cool test. You didn't say how long the small battery lasted after the big one shutdown but it didn't appear to be long (seemed like they shared the load pretty well). Could you repeat the test without the communication cable or would you not be able to monitor the batteries in the same way? Doing the same thing without the cable is the first thing to pop in my head.
More screen time yes but informative 👍, keep going Andy.
I think the communication is more usefiull for automation purposes like creating triggers and automates with Home Assistant for example.
It is also possible to send the voltage seen by the BMS to the inverter instead of the inverter probing the voltage on it's input. It is like a 4 wire voltage measurement of the battery pack.
First comment?! Andy, wish you a Happy New Year with a lot of Amps outside!
Hello from cloudy Missouri USA
Andy, I have such a setup running for more than 9 month now (280Ah parallel to 90Ah, Seplos BMS). The main benefit of the communication is that if you have a inverter which needs communcation to work properly (like my Sofar inverter), this is the only solution to get them working. On a Victron system the benefit is less. Only benefit is that you have a total pack SOC (which is average of both SOC's) and Seplos can ask using DVCC to lower the charge voltage while charging. During discharge this could be a thing also while using grid mod. Not during off grid indeed.
Comms is great for me as I use my battery’s for time of use energy shifting. The seplos comms allows my inverter to lower its charge rate based on cell voltage so it can charge up to a cell voltage and then settle down at a lower current when topping off and balancing.
Very good test, that´s what I wanted to know. Result: It´s working fine but we still don´t know what the BMS´s are talking about. I´m sure you are going to find it out.
Thanks. More testing under way...
Hey Andy, loving your channel, just a thought, could you use the the programmable relay in the Victron smart solar mppt to start an active balancer to top balance the Serplos battery banks?
The small battery has better balanced cells, so it discharged to a bit lower voltage (since the big battery shut down when cell #6 bottomed out.) So when you turned the charger on, power went from the big battery (cell #6 rebounded a bit) to the small battery until it shut down again. It should be ok once the small battery comes up to the voltage of the big battery.
If you get the Chinese cracker graphs for the 135 + 280 cells does the voltage graph shape differ in the 50-20% range? maybe that's why they shifted %age SOC vs voltage - matching voltage not SOC as they discharge. Maybe internal pressures of smaller cells or something weird, subtle but weird enough to show on the test ?
HI Andy. Thanks for great video!
As I have similar situation with Seplos BMS DIY 280Ah battery by EEL (95% similar to Mason) with Amy supplied batteries and 105 Ah battery with JK BMS
I like to share my little findings during few days. I connected them in parralel this week and see similar load sharing as you had.
The difference is that they not communicating together, but both can talk with Cerbo GX and I also have SmartShunt measuring both batteries. I will do more tests after NY.
EEL DIY was put in service this week and we have winter in Lithuania now. No sun. Just snow :)
My feesback to your test
Communication between batteries is to path trough data to inverter via Canbus.
What I been thinking based on your test is that master battery shall be last shuting down. If not all communication to cerbo or inverter will be lost. Maybe you can try this next time including canbus communication to see 3 parts bahavior
My expierience with seplos bms+ smartshunt was that despite I been using SmartShunt as battery meter in VRM settings loosing Seplos battery or disconnecting canbus from it was raising low voltage alarm on Multiplus. Need to test it again to see if Inverter is switching to pathtrough mode to grid or stays on inverter.
Lets share our findings mext year and big thanks for your job! Danke und auf wiedersehen!
Mindaugas
Very interesting comment, thanks, I have also bought a EEL DIY case, I hope it is a good choice (not receive it yet).
Can you tell me on which store does Amy sell batteries?
Thanks for sharing your experience.
If you have the smart shunt AND the smart BMSes, that doubles up and will most likely confuse your system. You should deactivate the Smart Shunt and use the BMS function only. Do some testing on how this goes...
4:25 3V is indeed a huge voltage delta.
I have 2 batteries with JK BMSes with SCC charging ~35A to each of them. When I disconnect Battery A (via a Circuit Breaker) and let Battery B charge with ~70A for a few minutes. When I reconnected Battery A back, I noticed a huge current flow out of Battery B (Negative 100A+) (as reported on JK App).
The voltage delta between these two should be relatively same before and after the reconnection and I witness.
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@Andy The purpose of connecting the BMSes is probably only the ability to show all parameters of the connected batteries to one screen in stead of switching between two or more BMSes, i think.
Greet job
I'm running two 280ah and one 202ah in paralell. No problem's at all. Daly, JK, and jD doing it's job.
Hi Andy, another great video.
Does the RS485 link only allow you to see both packs states on the Computer ?
With the RS485 disconnected you could only see the state of the pack the the computer was connected to.
Been lurking for a while now....
Putting a victron shunt on to compare with what seplos was saying would have been interesting.
I have 4 x 280 Ah seplos units arriving in Feb (I hope) and my dilemma is to go with what seplos is saying to victron (cheaper), or (more cost) use victron shunt like in your battery 2.
More seplos tests please!
Good It is really a fireplay experiement. You did it great. But in case of any BMS failure, should there is any fuse protection is required between the paraplling busbar connectors?. Any knife switch isolator with precharge resistor to equalise voltages in a controller manner is not safe engg practice?
Great test Andy,
It would be interesting to see them both being charge by the multiplus at the same time and the multiplus under the BMS control. I have seen the bms taken actions during the charge if cell voltage go to high and change the charging current. But I have only one pack right now
It would would really interesting to see what happened with two packs especially with you having some cells that is a little weak. Could be seen as an age thing that could happen in our systems with the cells we have.
This will probably never happen as my MP is off-grid and will most likely never be connected to the grid...
But I have something similar in mind.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia you have multiple victron inverter, you could totaly setup one inverter to act as grid and the other as hybrid inverter to test this and see how it can regulate discharging with multiple BMS.
@@Pey5531 that's what I have setup since we finished the PowerWall and Battery Shelf. That's just not what is connected to the Seplos batteries.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Sounds interesting, control functions are something we don't have that much of in DIY system. That has been the domain for commercially built systems before.
I was watching one of Will Prowse‘s videos on multi battery banks being hooked up to one inverter/charger.
All I know is you need to have the same chemistry of battery, the same charge controller settings for both battery banks.
Otherwise, you could destroy your batteries!
Could almost think you like the Seplos product Andy!
Отличный тест, очень интересно рассказываете, смотрю как Санта Барбору. Привет из Москвы!
I have parallel 2x 100Ah powerwall and 2x 280Ah DIY eve lf280k. Very stable no issues.
The Voltage is the Kommunikation Andy , see You next Year
Happy New Year to all!!! So would communication make a difference if these were mismatched batteries in series? I just wonder if building a 48v system out of two 24v batteries with differing ah ratings would make a difference.
If I have 228h solar battery with 150 BMS headway with no BMS limit my discharge for car audio to 150amps or is that only on the solar battery that it controls even though they're running put the BMS is only inside the solar battery?
I have successfully paralleled a 280ah pack and a 176ah pack for the last several months and not had any issues. Both deliver nearly their full capacity over a full charge/discharge cycle. SOCs of each battery and charge/discharge current ratios vary throughout the cycle, but they move to similar SOCs at the top and bottom ends of a cycle.
Was this with Seplos BMS as well?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia no it was two DIY banks with no communication between them. The smaller of the banks is normally in my camper but since it is winter here in Michigan, I thought I would run a parallel test with the bank I have at home. Both are LiFePo4 packs. I’ve come to the conclusion that you don’t really need communication for a small solar setup. I use Victron equipment and it just works using info from my battery monitor
same here, i have 4x 100amp and 3x200amp in parallel ,same happen to me, some different soc on ordinary use but flatting on top charging, i never go under 30% soc before i charge again.had this going on 3 years now and noting wrong.200amp charge and discharge little bit more/faster but flattening out all by it self 👍
Yeah I have a 100ah connected to a 200ah. Works great. Why wouldn’t it using smaller amp draws and appropriate sized cables. Batteries equalize themselves just fine. I’ll definitely Keep them above 20% or use the generator to bring them back up before then. Extreme amp draws are the only cases I would be wary (like over 50 amps - which is not a typical RV use).
The purpose of link between 2 packs is for monitoring on PC and for victron inverter, in my opinion.
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Watch this space...
But how does this work if linked to victron GX? I’m running 1pack old leaf cells with jk bms which communicate to GX system on a raspi.
Hi Andy,
As both (or several) batteries are connected in parrallel, isn´t the communication between BMS´s there to avoid charging the discharged battery by the remaining battery (which still holds capacity)? As such avoiding that some capacity is "wasted" instead of all of it being used to power your home appliances.
Hallo Andy - heute mal eine Frage auf "gut deutsch" ;-) aber zunächst ein gesundes neues Jahr Dir und Deiner Familie! Ich freue mich immer über Deine super Videos-meisst äusserst wissenswerter Content dem manchem Hersteller gut zu Gesicht stünde und zudem noch kurzweilig mit einer guten Prise Humor. Nun meine spezielle Frage-weil hier zum Video gut passend. Das aktuell neue Seplos BMS 10E besitzt ja die Fähigkeit ohne Einstellerei an den DIP-Schaltern auszukommen. Ich selber nutze leider noch eine Menge der 10 C Versionen.Hierauf läuft aber auch sehr gut die Firmware 2.8. Diese enthält zusätzlich den Function Switch "Enable automatic Adressing coding" Nun stellt sich mir die Frage - wäre es möglich ein 10E Bms mit anderen 10C zu koppeln und diese Funktion der automatischen Adresszuordnung zu nutzen? Dies müsste ja mit den zwei Packs im Video zu testen sein. Ist es eigentlich so gemeint, daß wenn die 10E Versionen ohne DIP Switch adressing auskommen -das Master BMS mit dem Cerbo via CAN kommunizieren kann und gleichzeitig ALLE packs (Auch pack 0) mit dem Seplos Monitor via RS 485 abgefragt werden kann? Ich würde nämlich zugern diese Variante nutzen , da Bluetooth aufgrund der Entfernung Keller-Büro nicht reichen würde und ich bisher nur alle Packs ab Pack 1 aufwärts bei gleichzeitiger Kommunikation CAN to Cerbo und RS 485 zum Monitor überwachen kann.Pack 0 wird aufgrund der zwingenden DIP Einstellungen für das CAN unsichtbar. Oder gibt es eine Möglichkeit die ich bisher nicht kenne? Und noch eine Frage zur Firmware - es kursiert im Netz auch noch eine 2.9 Variante - kennst Du diese und gibt es dabei noch Verbesserungen. Das einzige was mir bei der 2.8. bisher säuerlich aufgefallen ist , sind die völlig irrwitzigen Daten von eingeladener und ausgeladener Energie wenn man diese via VRW-Erweitert als Grafik laufen lässt.In der Remote Console wird bei geladener und entladener Energie angezeit, daß der Wert am "Monitor" zurückgestellt werden kann? Hier stellt sich die Frage wo dies geschehen soll- im Seplos Monitor für das BMS lässt sich nichts finden.
Hi Andy,
die Kommunikation ist meiner Meinung nach nur interessant beim Laden. Ich hab eine Anlage mit 3 Studer und gesamt 130KW Bleiakku und LEFEPO4 parallel. Beim Laden habe ich das Problem das die Balancer die ungleichen Zellen nicht mehr balancen können da der Balancer den erforderlichen Strom bei der höher liegenden Zelle nicht mehr her bekommt. Durch die Kommunikaton sagen sie nun dem Studer das er die Ladeleistung herunter fährt so das dass balencen wieder geht und die Zellen nahezu an ihr maximum geladen werden können. Nach einer Zeit werden die Zellen durch dieses Verhalten konditioniert. Ist wirklich sehr interessant das Verhalten.
Das ganze ist in den Sommermonaten bei uns in Bayern intensiv im Einsatz.
Gruß aus dem nicht so sonnigen Bayern ;-)
Andy
The advantage with comms to the inverter is - if for some reason the software in the BMS that switches off the mosfets when an undervoltage at cell level happens were to fail then the inverter would shut down output power independently and preserve the battery. More importantly in an overvoltage situation if the BMS fails then the inverter can shutdown charging. While I think this is highly unlikely, it can't hurt to have a backup. Also using Venus OS you can consolidate all your information in one place and you're not restricted to BT as you are with many BMS's.
Do you think i csn connect two 36v battery packs in parralel
1 36v 18650 12ah 2 36v 21700 20ah
If i level the voltage?
Which is the desktop applications used for monitoring the multiple intelligent batteries connected in parallel
You should do a test with the load connected to the smaller battery first then paralleled to the large one. If you have time do it with communications and without. See if there's any point to communications between the 2 batteries other than reading the data or changing parameters on bms.
Hi Andy
These seplos batteries are "industrial" batteries, probably intended to be for standby backup power. If these batteries are at near full state of charge for most of their life the balancer would be adequate to balance.
Since your use case is different with potential lots of cycles you're right that these balancers are inadequate.
It would be extremely nice if there was a programmable relay in these bmses so a external active balancer could be connected.
Regarding the communication
Rs485 again heavy use in industry and there would be a custom control system monitoring the state of the packs, for you..... it's useless
I do remember the CAN video where the CAN showed a total battery capacity as one battery for multiple packs, that would be useful for you because its regarded as one battery and shows as one battery in software, the Victron software. I do believe that even in CAN mode the BMS would act independent and shutdown the same as they do now.
What i believe how the CAN mode works is that you select one battery to act as master and tell that one (by dip switch) how many batteries are connected, the master battery polls the slave batteries and Adds up the total capacity, amps and available remaining capacity
Hopes this helps you understand these batteries a bit more
Thanks for your comment. Not sure if these batteries/BMSes were intended for standby backup power only and we 'misuse' them for our solar purposes now. Even leaving them sitting over night, the balancer did not make any progress.
Yes, the overall capacity is being reported to the Victron system, so that's a plus. You're right. We have seen this in previous videos where I tested this.
I use this exact seplos kit with grade A cells and I have no issues with them getting out of balance. An active balance port would be nice in a future BMS version though.
Great test & conclusion Andy, I have often wondered if the comms bring anything more to the party than a link to ur computer for individual visuals of each battery BMS situation.
I have 3 x Seplos “Suntorque” 5.2kw Batteries, they are all in parallel & no communications & I have similar results, they all charge & discharge at similar rates with a few exceptions. I use an AIO to charge the batteries by day at 40Amps takes about 5 hrs & then run several fridges & tv’s etc off them from 3pm-9am next day.
They all charge & discharge at similar rates without comms.
Thank you again for all these video.
Do you believe I can parallel 2 US2000C Pylontech batteries with 1 Gobel 14kwh (PACE BMS) which I bought thank to you ?
If yes, should I find a way to make the BMS communicate together ? Or should I just connect one to the charger ?
The charger is a Sofar Solar ME3000SP set to Pylontech CAN and I will receive later a Multiplus II 5000.
Thank you again !
Cyril
Hi Andy
What do you think about connecting an LG chem battery with one of the Chinese batteries?
Thanks for your show. It is very good not only for education. It is your passion to express your knowledge and learn on the way.
Hi Andy, couldn't help but notice it looks like you've used wire netting to keep your shed insulation in place. Great idea, but was wondering what you used to secure it?
That was already in place when we bought the place. It will come off soon. It prevents the heat from radiating into the garage. But I have mounted solar panels on the outside for that purpose now 😂
They used some fence wire across the metal beams and rafters which holds it up and some cloth underneath for heat insulation.
This all will go soon when we build the Power Garage 😊
Hello Andy, I've been watching your solar videos. Will you be kind enough to let me know what PC software app are you using for monitoring your LiFePO4 batteries? Where can I get this software? Thanks in anticipation of your help.
When I expect a spark, like when connecting a invertor to a battery, I always use a long thin single strand copper wire or short wire with a resistor inline to first charge the capacitors. With connecting batteries to each other I never had a problem if the voltage is not to far apart.
If they are transistor based BMS’s I would assume the communication would be letting the charge/discharge mosfets increase and decrease the rates to try and help keep the SOC somewhat closer. The way the discharge current was bobbling around on each one possibly that was happening? Hard to tell. I wonder what the manufacturer has to say?
Awesome as usal :) - would the coms have worked if the computer was wired off the other battery, i think it would have gone down with the big battery shutting down. I too would love to know what is the comms that happen between batteries and also between inverter etc.. thanks for a great video!
What do you know about the Sodium-Ion Batteries that people are talking about? Happy New Year to you and yours Andy 🎉
So after all of this discharging into the Teslander, did you recharge them completely so it re-calibrates calculated capacities on banks 1 & 2 and repeat? See if their discharging hysteresis curves become closer??? Fun test!!!
Going to need to lay some rubber on the roads for another empty battery to do more tests!
Hi Andy,
Die BMS-Komunikation ist für das Laden der Batterien.
Unter 12 Grad Celsius muss der Ladestrom reduziert werden.
Wenn der Master-BMS den Ladestrom nicht steuern kann, war's das mit den Batterien.
Es ist wichtig sich auch über Telegram zu informieren. Man sollte immer aktiv gegen Zensur handeln!
Thanks for the love. Send me a text on telegram with the username above🔝🔝🔝 You've been shortlisted for my New year giveaway.......
If you have DVCC enabled, then the master pack communicates to the system what can be the maximum charge and discharge current from your batterys thats the main benefit i see.
if you check your battery parameters in venus os, you will see CCL and DCL values ( Charge Current Limit ) and ( Discharge Current Limit )
if one pack can do 100A, 2 pack connected together with communication will tell the victron system that it can do 200A in total, if one pack shuts down it will limit the charge and discharge current to 1 pack value.
I wondered about if they did that myself. I found out with my setup that they do a good job of sharing small and large loads. To even out. Makes me think its a Voltage thing.
Hi Andy. Ich wünsche dir einen guten Rutsch, bzw kann man jetzt wohl schon ein gesundes Neues wünschen. Ich habe aktuell 6 14s liion Batterien jeweils 30 bzw 40p aus gebrauchten 18650 laufen. Verbaut in 2HE 19" Gehäusen Tendenz steigend. Bisher liefen die alle als eigene Einheit. Manche mit Daly BMS, 1 sogar nur mit nem akt. Balancer. Die aktuellen werden alle mit dem diyBMS von Stuart betrieben. Die älteren werden darauf umgerüstet. Ich fand es immer gut wenn ein akku einzeln agieren kann ohne das gesamte System abzuschalten. Das lässt sich auch mit dem von Stuart machen.
Great content, I have a different issue, I have two Deye inverters, one with 2 x 15s batteries and the other with 2 x 16s. I guess it's not possible to connect in Parallel these four batteries due to the voltage difference, or can I assume the 15s BMS maintains the correct voltage and is really not an issue?
You cannot parallel them at all! The voltage difference would make the 16s charge the 15s all the time until the BMS turns off. That is just not possible.
it seems the comms connection between the BMSs really just behaves as a pass-through so that monitoring of multiple battery banks can all be done via a single connection to the PC and/or a single bluetooth connection. Are there any configurable options to change the behaviour? Thanks for doing this testing. I am currently building two Seplos 280Ah banks the same as yours but with the 10C BMS
I see around 1900 watts as DC power on your VRM , what exactly is that ?
Great test Andy, first of all, to you and your family happy new year, and also to everyone overhere on this great channel. Andy i just love your great videos i learn alot of it, thanks..... i'm from the south of Netherlands and try to save some expensive Kw/h, off grid i use 4 Redodo 12,8V 100Ah Lifepo4, at the moment 4 P but i want to set it up as 4S 48V do you know something about the quality of this battery, or test this one?? how can i connect this battery, this battery has no bluetooth? thanks!
Comms in this case is largely for monitoring and configuring. The comms for the inverter/chargers it can help when charging for example, it can tell the inverter/chargers to reduce the current as needed if the battery is getting close to cell over voltage, or getting too hot or too cold etc. Would be interesting to see if you connected the Seplos CAN to the Victron system, can it control the charges to reduce their charging current etc?
Hi, yes it can. My Seplos BMS is controlling my Victron Multiplus II both voltage and amps, when charging and discharging the charge or discharge protections are not needed to be activated by the BMS because it will tell the multiplus to stop before the protections are needed.
@@tx75e94 Andy is not using the Multiplus to charge he has multiple separate victron solar chargers that would need to be controlled.
Andy, I need a little direction, I have a luxpower 12hybryd inverter and I have 4 15kw battery banks, 2 battery banks come from different manufactures, I was curious how I can get the inverter to know the state of charge of each battery. Would I connect them in parallel on a common bus bar and run the can or 485 cable to a switch and plug that switch into the com port on the inverter? What is the best way to have the inverter know the SOC of each battery? Thanks Andy!
Sorry to bother. But i have a question regarding BMS for lithium.
Is it possible to put 4 12v lithium batteries in series, and the put these in larger packs of 6 for a 48v system with 6 packs of 4 12v lithium batteries?
I am wondering since i have been using lead acid for Home storage and solar storage, but in the future i might upgrade to Lithium, i might even want to build the packs and batteries myself becuase it is insanely cheap.
What would be the issues if you were to put 4 batteries each having their own BMS in series, and the paralleling these with identical packs? If there would be any issues.
Thanks for answers.
I have an off-road scooter with a new 13s 48v 45A Daly bms, and the guy I bought it from threw in a smaller 13s 30A clean looking generic Chinese BMS. My question is, can you put them in parallel on my scooter battery pack? To make more amps available. No big deal just wondering if I should give it a try.
I'm building one of those 280 pack with one of those case I get from Ally Express, I currently have a EG4 100ah pack and when I finish with the 280 pack I was planning to parallel it with the EG4 and see if it would communicate too
If you read this. Can I parallel 200ah Rosen battery with a 100ha eg4 all 48v?
Andy can you make a video about a acktive balance on the big batteri