What's With Q and Guinan?
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- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
- This is a speculation and theory video discussing what might the history be between Guinan and Q? The origin of her strange senses about time and just why Q disliked her? All conjecture of course, as we don't have a clear answer to this mystery...
And I like it that way.
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I like the idea that Q is an unstoppable force of reality alteration and Guinan is an immovable object that is immune to reality alteration.
"immune" would imply she cannot be affected, "resistant" would be a more apt term as Guinan HAS been influenced by reality alteration. The TNG episode where Enterprise C appeared in the modern day, messed up history... she remembers bits and pieces of the true reality but not the whole.
@@nailboard6492 Yep, came here to say that.
Yeah I like the idea that Guinan keeps “correcting” the things that Q do to reality. Maybe her people right the ship over time. The idea that what ever the Q change is eventually fixed probably upsets the Q greatly.
She's sand in the gears of the Q machine.
Possible Doctor Who and Star Trek crossover....Guinan is a Time Lord/Jenny?
She's just his ex and the rest of the Continuum prevents Q from doing anything to her as a laugh
This is the best theory.
I can really see that to be true - even though "Ms Q" does later appear in Voyager and clearly looks different. But Q might have the power to change their appearance at will. Certainly both Guinan and Ms Q have the same wicked sense of humor.
@@christianealshut1123 He could have more than one ex. Even some humans, who usually aren't immortal, have more than one ex.
Q realized that she would turn into whoppie Goldberg, and send herself into the past to be an annoying woman on her period in "the view"
Thats why he cant stand her.
Yup Chris Brown Rihanna
I remember the episode where Q had his powers taken away, no one believed him so Guinan tested him by stabbing Q in the hand with a fork walks away saying , Seems real enough to me😅
One of my favorite TNG scenes in the whole series! LOLOLOL.
oh wait...what if Q was talking about her stabbing him in the future?
He asks Picard what he can do to prove his mortality and Worf butted in "die".
@@MichaelClark-uw7ex you can always count on Worf to tell it like it is🤣
@@MichaelClark-uw7ex Eat any good books lately?
That scene where Q sees her and is really scared of her. That was a beautiful scene
I didn't see fear in his eyes or on his face. She was the one looking like a cornered cat.
@@doctorfate6414 .I need to see that scene again. I could swear Q was scared. but it's been a long time of course.
@@gerarduspoppel2831 Surprise yes, fear no. He still had his overwhelming confidence and stubborn detached nature up and stable.
@@doctorfate6414 .I just saw the scene again. I think he is shocked when he sees her. And certainly be wary. In my opinion then. I wonder if this is still explained in the Picard series
Q wasn't afraid, but was clearly disturbed and worried about her presence. And she seemed to have the ability to resist him, which a human would not have. That alone would be reason to bother him.
The answer is: "Shut up, we didn't plan that far ahead when we were writing the first two seasons."
LOL
Indeed
Well given what we know about Roddenberry flexing his muscles at the writers during the first two seasons of TNG...
finally a thoughtful explanation!
I'm sure that's so close to the truth as I created those 2 characters...see above what I wrote.I also found people on Mars 2004.I Ghostwrote for Trek1987 at a distance of 3000 miles.Delaware.
I imagine it was some event where Guinan outsmarted Q and he's just really bitter about it, so he's built her up as this massive threat to salve his ego. To be honest, I think having the mystery adds to the Trekverse, this idea that events of huge cosmic significance take place and we just have no idea what they are.
Lol I agree.
I wonder what stage of "annoyed and bitter" they're at.
James Forbes and Edward Watkin
Charles Yerkes' creditors from Chicago
Tourists to London trying to understand the zones (Seriously, the feck)
Oh no. Why do I have a feeling she will show up in Picard.
@@johnwayne2103 Well, there's the fact that Patrick Stewart has invited Whoopi to play Guinan in season 2 of "Picard", and she accepted publicly...
You got any videos about some abandoned Jefferies tube or turbo lift in the works?
You estimate her to be 400ish years old but Q in that episode states that he and she met over 2000 years before. He seemed pretty confident when he stated it.
He might have been referring to the truce between her people and the Q continuum
I’m pretty sure he said two centuries (200 years).
@@user-rv2rz2cd8u that also doesnt make sense since she was on earth around the time Mark Twain was alive.
She is an immortal
@@aguythatworkstoomuch4624 they are discussing information given, not if she is immortal or not...
In the episode when the Borg first showed up, Q said that he'd be willing to renounce his powers - and had a knowing tone and look that he directed at Guinan - suggesting that she was doing just that as she was along for the ride on the enterprise (whatever her powers were)
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Elaurian and Q are related species. The Q got near omnipot power, while the Elaurians got near omniscient perception, and the Q got tired of the back seat driving.
That’s what I always figured. The way she holds up her hands in defense at him make me think she either has a power or a skill to combat him. That type of power feels like something born, not necessarily taught
This was always my personal headcanon.
@@Sk8rToon Obviously it was just some stupid moves they came up with on the spot, but i choose to believe this now^^
Passive omniscient perception I'd say. The Q can basically become aware of anything they want, but they must be aware of what it is they want to begin with. So they could just pick to see a specific sector of space at a specific time, but they wouldn't be aware of something happening in an entirely different sector of space at another time, they just have to pick spots to focus on. The El'aurians on the other hand seem to just know when anything major changes at all.
It is possible that they both had a common ancestor.
It would have been nice to see Guinan and Data begin a friendship that would have lasted for centuries. Watch them reminisce over the good times and friends long gone.
Would've been dope
yet when Data allowed himself to be killed..guinan would have noticed.. dead story line
@@guysabol8743Data's implanted his memories into B-4 before sacrificing himself
@@extendedepicmusic5017 Before not After?
@@muurrarium9460 He implanted his memories into B-4 before he sacrificed himself, not after as that wouldn't have been possible. B-4 wouldn't have a 100% complete record but it would be close enough.
I like the idea that her whole species are rivals to Q. Like they are the only ones that can and know how to deal with the Continuum. I remember seeing her raise her hands ready to fight him and going "WOAH!" and thinking, "She can actually FIGHT a Q?". Kind of like Mandalorians knowing how to fight Jedi. I also like the idea of their long life span interacting with other people makes them too important to just snap them out of existence.
I found it interesting that when Q and Guinan met first on TNG, Q actually asked for Picard's permission to "expedite her departure" when he never asked for permission to do anything
my old theory that i have always played with everytime i rewatch TNG: Q probably tried to do the same thing with El-Aurias as they did with Earthlings. Q probably tried to put them on trial, and they were just clever enough to surprise Q and probably has something to do with their uncanny listening ability. For winning their trial, Q agreed to never bother them, and maybe had to give them that ability to know when the continuum was being disrupted. This is why gainan can sense q and the disruptions. Q is probably annoyed because her people is the only ones to actually made a fool of the entire continuum. I like the idea that entire race could best them, but still have difficulties with the borg. Really parellels mankind in alot of ways.
Yeah, if he made a promise to not mess with their species then his hands would have been tied when dealing with Guinan. Q definitely wouldn't like that. Maybe she raised her hands like she was gonna fight him not because she could, but more like she was mocking him because she knew he couldn't.
There was a deleted line in the Q Who episode when after Q sees Guinan and says "You!" she menacingly replies "None other". I kind of wish they had kept that line in the episode as it was one of the few hints at the darker side of Guinan's character that we rarely saw.
Sure it wasn't NUN other??
WAIT!!!! maybe it wasn't "you" perhaps he was saying "U" like how they address each other as Q
@@KCKingdomCreateGreatTrekAgain haha brilliant
Yes, that would definitely have added to the mystery of why Q can't toy with her like he does etheryone else outside of the continume.
@@danpit2001 agreed
I can imagine Guinan reversing a Q plot than pulling a bluff on him that she's more than just a good listener and thus he thinks she's holding back her true powers of perception and manipulation.
Agreed, she's clever and bold enough to pull it off.
I've always had this story in my head where the Continuum's source of omnipotence has decayed to almost nothing and they get reduced to a mere warp-capable culture, leading to a crew sent out to secretly search for the cosmic "source" and restore the Q. Star Trek: Section Q.
Write it!
Might as well go for the Full Monty and call it Star Trek: Section _Thirty-Q_
Section 31 does all the sneaky CIA spy BS, while Section 32 is focused on the Big "Q"uestion.
I always like to point out to people that Guinan putting her hands up in that stance indicates that she believes she can take on Q, and therefore that she must be wildly powerful even though we never see her use any powers of any kind later.
I almost wonder if she's basically a Time Lord, thanks to the episode with her in the past.
I was thinking what if she's still on her "Riker test" but has never used the powers EVER but has always had access to them. This would certainly piss off Q who would think no one could resist even a taste.
Being somewhat like a Time Lord would explain some of the things she says that hint to future events that only become clear as hints after, except when directly asked if that is a hint to the future, which earns a paraphrased “Spoilers.”
I like to think of Guinan as being a sort of cosmic entity like in marvel comics. Wildly powerful but could live among mortals without ever being found out. She could have powers just choosing never to use them. It’s pretty easy for her to fib about being an Allorian since I’m pretty sure they no longer exist. Who would even think to call her out on it and even so what would be the point. The perfect cover for a Godlike being. And of course the only other entity to know her for her true self and fear her would be the other godlike entity Q
John de Lancie actually said at a Star Trek convention, his character's relationship with her was bad because (and I quote) that, "They had a really bad date..." And he said nothing more after that on the subject...
That's pretty funny. I would wager that John de Lancie has no more insight to it than anyone else, because I suspect the writers simply never finished fleshing out the background between the two.
@@Neelo5000 As it should be.
I like the idea that the Q and the El Aurians diverged from a common ancestor, like the Vulcans and Romulans. The divergence happened before their powers reached such world-changing levels, and the difference in development reflected the different approaches to learning. Those that became the Q were ambitious, always wanting to do more, achieve great things, be generally impressive. Those that became the El Aurians were reflective, wanting to listen and observe, to gain a better understanding of the universe and reality.
Being more ambitious and more forceful can convince someone that they "earned" what they achieved, regardless of what had to be destroyed or sacrificed on the way. That ambition is the story of the Q.
100% this has always been my headcannon as well. The Q and the El-Aurians are branches on the same tree. One chose infinite power and ambition, the other simply chose an extended existence so that they could observe and be a part of the universe, have children, fall in love, help other species grow and evolve. My theory that Boothby is a secret El-Aurian as well.
The Q cannot affect the El-aurian's directly, either from their resistance or an agreement between the two species that most Q honor. (save for rogues like TNG's Q).
@@tbirdguy1 Last ep of ST:Voy: End Game, .. well you can't have two Janeways in the same timeline, so they killed off the older one in baiting the Borg queen.
Head canon, when the older Janeway takes her last breath she awakens in a glowing white realm of energy, Q waiting for her with a hot cup of black coffee along with Jr.
Q, " Welcome to the Continuum, welcome .. home."
Janeway does face palm with a deep sigh.
@@krispalermo8133 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾🤣🤣🤣
Perhaps a Yin Yang situation. Order and Chaos.
Trance gemini.
Maybe a long time ago when Guinan was younger Q grew interested in her the same way he grew interested in Picard. And like Q likes to do he decided to play games on her. Only she totally outsmarted him and made him look like a fool.
I like this thought. While Picard was tested in ways to help save all humanity, we don't know what Guinan may have been tested on. Perhaps she was given insight of a catastrophic event on a much larger scale, that required he to watch the demise/sacrifice of her own species in the presence of Q. Her disapproval of Q would be derived from his lack of intervention to prevent that from happening...and of course, his methods.
the two “face off” with hand placement implies she can at least negate q’s abilities which has always intrigued me…and she has displayed a unique ability to detect actual reality as when she realizes something is wrong when the enterprise c arrives…certainly an interesting plot line as no other alorians display her abilities
him not knowing she was on board supports the idea that she is somehow ignored by the Q powers. It's almost as if she is fixed to the way spacetime is supposed to be in the prime timeline and anything that tries to change that just goes around her like water around a rock in a riverbed.
That she hasn't any real abilities on her own, but is somewhat immune to changes.
I think she was just baring her claws as a sign of aggression. The same way Worf sometimes bares his teeth at people.
@@HappyBeezerStudios though he's not omniscient, so unless he bothered to look before appearing to Picard he wouldn't know she was there. And considering Qs arrogance, I douot he would bother checking before jumping straight in.
If that first theory is true, the El-Aurians must be losing their minds in the Kelvin timeline
*all your base are belong to us*
Probably, the kelvin timeline was mentioned in later series
Not necessarily. The major threads are still there, including how the relationships between the Alpha and Beta Quadrant powers are interacting. My personal head canon is that Pike is a Temporal Agent and has prevented the Kelvin Timeline from going too far off the rails. I have no doubt that they sense the difference, but it's not as damaging, or disturbing, or disruptive, or... Whatever, as the Enterprise-C alteration.
Perhaps it was the E-C's jumping forward that bothered her because it wasn't so much an alternate timeline as a self terminating one, wherein time folds back on itself without creating a separate timeline. The anomaly that E-C came and returned through was a kind of Klein Bottle overlap where spacetime passed through itself and briefly became timespace. El-Aurians must've felt like being blind in a 1-G loop; feels like gravity, but, something is even more off than a generic time loop, like the one in S5E18, Cause and Effect. Guinan probably just called in sick for that one - felt dizzy from the disturbance, but didn't feel anything so off it needed intervention.
Many are expecting far more logic from things than is likely.
Still hating homegirl?.
The fact that she was able to break free of her "joy" in the Nexus in order to confront Picard is note worthy. It seemed apparent that both Picard and Kirk would have gone on indefinately in their fantasies had they not received prompting to do otherwise.
Picard became disillusioned within minutes of being in the Nexus, Kirk within an hour. It wasn't Guinan or even Picard that convinced Kirk of the phony nature of the Nexus, it was a horse jumping over a ditch. Not exactly the "being inside joy" experience Guinan had described.
@@kev3d Kirk already knew he was in the nexus long before the horse jump and was happy to remain in the fantasy. It was however that moment of compleating a jump that the horse was never able to do, that convinced Kirk to leave and help Picard.
Given she knew Samuel Clemens she likely learned of the Q continum from the various cultures she visited and heard stories of their maltreatment. Perhaps she disrupted some of these schemes.
Guinan seems to have a Prime Directive sense about her.
@@RideAcrossTheRiver Would have been nice if she let Starfleet know about the Borg decades or perhaps even centuries ahead of time. Could have saved many (billions?) lives.
@@kev3d Why does Starfleet or humanity merit that warning?
@@RideAcrossTheRiver Perhaps season 2 of Picard will be about Guinan making a different choice after becoming unhinged. The Mother Abigail vs Picard narrative will be epic.
@@mightymulatto3000 I'm sure Picrap will be unhinged. I won't be watching it.
One of the best scenes I thought of with Guinan was when Picard went back in time meeting Guinan of the past and her knowing him back then as though her memories were timeless.
I can't remember if he went back at that occasion, but could she maybe remember him from that time travel episode in TNG where they met Mark Twain?
...what? She didnt know him. He had to explain who he was and how he knew her.
Q is without a doubt, one of the greatest characters to have ever graced the television screen. Guinan is pretty damn awesome herself, definitely one of my favorite characters.
Oh then . You ADMIRE Petty Gods ? Like Zeus and Odin and Apollo and Horus and.........................................
@@johncunningham4820 Within the limitations of imaginary characters.
@@johncunningham4820 The Q aren't "gods," just very, very advanced life forms (like the Organians, the Wormhole "Prophets," and a number of other highly evolved aliens seen in Trek). "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C. Clarke ("Clarke's Third Law").
I'm gonna go with the writers wrote themselves into a corner, so it's going to remain unknown indefinitely.
I thought one of my favorite writers had wrote himself into a corner but he managed to alter course in an unexpected way. There was hope still for this story
Ya like venture bros
Both her and Q are in the coming season of Picard so we might get more info soon.
Guinan was never supposed to exist, actually. Mrs. Goldberg loved the show and contacted them about being on the show. They wrote the role and created ten forward specifically for her. She was a giant in the industry at the time and if one of the biggest stars in the industry calls and asks to be on the show, you say yes. If you don't have a role for them, create one.
How about no
It be such a great gift to the trek community to finally get an explanation on this..
Maybe Picard Season 2, since they both coming back!
But Here's what we know for sure if you watch back the episode where they first meet in TNG(first in tng not time):
-I can't say i actually saw hate in Q's eyes when he first saw her onboard the enterprise.. but one thing for sure;
He was scared shitless.. he was totally terrified.. in a Q way...
-Also Guinan takes a fighting stance.. I mean this Lady is anywhere between 400-900 years old, nobody can ever get a real answer on that one either.. so.. lets be fair and call it 500+.. I mean that's Maturity, that's knowledge, that's wisdom.. for countless lives, cultures, planets, time you name it.. So with all that.. and clearly knowing fairly everything about the Q, and the Continuum, their invulnerability, insane powers, and your telling me, she was getting ready for hand to hand combat against the most powerful Race in the Galaxy, maybe Universe? With her only listening powers?? Right....
If Guinan ever faced something she knew would kill/end her.. she would walk straight to them, look em in the eye.. give them one of her always inspiring speech and finish it with something like; "Now, give me your best shot".
Taking a fighting stance like that with her knowledge and wisdom, and Q being afraid.. can only mean 1 thing for sure..
We've all always known Guinan was a Badass for sure.. But she got scary powers to boot for sure.. Scary enough to make a Q, quake in his boots..
I mean out of everything we have ever seen Q do.. TNG, VOY, DS9.. he never got scared about anything really.. even when he was human for a little while on TNG.. wasn't really scared.. physically hurt, pride destroyed, but afraid.. i dont think so.. Even in VOY, he faced on onslaught of other Q's in a civil war, with only him and Janeway beside him.. he was joking all the way to the gallows..
Guinan was the only Character that ever made Q shat his pants... again in a Q fashion..
To put in comparison, if a human had displayed the same level of fear to power ratio type thing as Q did... would be the equivalent of a human reacting in so much fear that his hair turns white, skin hardens, and the entire body turns to dust, in a matter of second..
I am pretty sure he was even more scared when he lost his powers and she stabbed him in the hand lol
Man I wish they would’ve elaborated more on Guinan’s abilities and how they rival Q’s.
They don't need to because she explains herself based on the way she lives. She knows she's part of the Nexus, but chooses to live mortal, among mortals, authentically.
Q on the other hand says NAHH IMMA MESS UP SOME LIVESS N SHEET.
They will explain everything in Star Trek Picard Season 2
E
The key description is Q saying she is not what she "appears" to be. That implies she is something other than just a humanoid.
Or a humanoid not bound by the time dimension, having touched the Nexus
@@Nisselak as evidenced by her knowledge that Yar was supposed to be dead, and died a meaningless death.
But her stance in that one confrontation on the Enterprise leaves me with the impression that she isn't really afraid of Q and that she has some capabilities to defend herself against him. That would support the theory that she might be at least in part a Q herself.
Not necessarily. He could be saying she appears to be nice and friendly, but she's actually a murderer. Not saying that's the case, but it could be entirely about her personality or past.
@@BeardFaceSuper He would not have known about her being nice ect. He clearly was implying she was hiding something.
I just think she’s a timelord
They met in a cross over comic once. The Cybermen had integrated with the Borg, Guinan realized it was out of place. Picard asked Guinan if she could do anything about it, she says no. Picard asks 11 if he could do anything about it, he says "Of course".
@@JackMValentine of course he would. If there's one thing all Doctors share, it's a near-unflappable assurance of their own abilities. Even if it's as unprecedented and time-breaking as that crossover was. Like, Eleven gained new memories of a prior adventure he'd had as Four with Captain Kirk.
It will be a hell of a plot twist and it would be a Segway for a crossover to Doctor Who universe.
*i'd prefer her as The Doctor than the one we currently have been dealt*
So... instead of controlling Time and Space, with god-like powers, she merely manipulates "Wibbly-Wobbly ~ Timey-Whimey" Time and Space, with her, TARDIS? 😂
CHEERS! ✨🍻✨✌
"Where did she leave that TARDIS?" 🚪👀
I appreciate the deep thoughts and multiple theories behind this. I didn’t think much of it until now. Thank you
Great to see a video on this. I always said that was the big question they never answered. Guinan was the only character Q seemed to fear and we realized later Quinan isn't a normal humanoid.
I always felt it was an Guinan was an elder race that wasn't omnipotent as Q but had such a vast life span and evolution that they could outsmart Q. They had a more neutral good view of the universe and when Q meddled she was able to best him easily. Being a non-violent race they were no match for an aggressive and persistent species like the Borg.
Maybe the Q were originally Elorian? A faction of the Elorian may have "ascended" where others thought that it would be sacrilegious to do so.
The Q's race has been around for a LONG time, they have have evolved in "countless centuries", it's extremely unlikely that they have ties to any humanoid race currently existening
I respect this thought idea... Similar to how on stargate acendents where human predecessors who chose to transcend to a new level becoming essentially gods
@@Nisselak They've been around for a "long time", yet they are not bound by time as they can travel freely to any point in history. Ergo for all we know they evolved billions of years in the future and simply go around the past messing with people.
Thats Stargate lol
Or she's an Organian, as they did ascend in TOS.
This always struck me as Juble Early / Shepherd Book moment.
The fact that they alluded to a previous knowledge of each other but never referenced it again makes for really enticing lore that keeps fans speculating and deeply engaged.
"That ain't no preacher."
Alluded.
@@waynemarvin5661 thank you Wayne!
They just wrote in a bunch of open ended situations they could use for future episodes.
Look a the ep where they reversed ageing by using a old save game..umm, I mean an old transporter pattern to get rid of the aging virus. Surely that would start a revolution in anti ageing?
Simply transporting people as patterns saved in the buffer - thousands of people in a tiny ship that required no food or water? How economic would that be.
Nah, she is just an S, one letter after Q. Problem solved.
You had it right the first time. Guinan and the Alurians perceive time differently, and are immune to reality alteration.
Writers say that Guinan was immune because she was in the Nexus.
The closest I want to get to an answer is learning what Picard thinks their history is, considering his long friendship with Guinen and numerous encounters with Q, especially with the different perspectives added by season 2 of Picard
The way Guinan and Q interacted always told me she had to be more than normal for her species.
Didn't know how, but that she had to be
We didnt really know anything was special with her species at that point (we didnt even know she wasnt human), arguably learning about the races reality perception and long life spans later was playing out that teaser.
Guinan’s hat had a built in powerful energy source that gave her special abilities.🧐
It's why she was seldom without it in any canon, to this day.
@@BigBlack81 her hat can barely contain her gigantic brain that's inside it that's why she's so insightful and always has advice to give every episode
she thinks like 12 alternate realities ahead of her friends
@@BigBlack81 We tried pushing her in, but she just won't get into the cannon without the hat!
Sorry
that's your opinion
I too feel like the mystery is the best part, and I feel that somehow in some way maybe she could have a way to counter Q's abilities as they are never used around her.
i always figured that guinan's species was a parallel evolution from the parent species before they split. the side that ascended were the q, and the side that went in some other direction were guinan's species.
I like the idea that el-aurians are one of those races similar to humans, where the Q are curious on what they will do.. basically a whole race of Wesley Crusher, who are well beyond the norm; specifically temporally. Borg found them and gains all sorts of cool abilities from them, and now the Q are wary of Borg.
Maybe the reason why Q showed the Enterprise the Borg early to get them ready and actively watch them. Like in the far past with the Vaadwar, they weren't much of a threat till the El-Aurians got assimilated. Then it was Q's job to prepare the next race that had the possibility to get to their level to fight them.
@@dakotaravenwood7755 that is a fantastic idea
@@arisakathedappergoose4796 thank you! Your great idea inspired it!
@@dakotaravenwood7755 what if Q approached her before assimilation, but Q didn't know he couldn't influence them. She didn't understand and blames Q for the assimilation.
I've always been of the impression that the writers had an idea and never did anything with it. Not to mention her canonical history completely contradicts her being anything close to a Q. They threw in random shit to expand her mystery and screwed up getting around to explaining it, and going back is too hard at this point. Highly complex speculation has highly complex inconsistencies.
So they J.J. Abrams' it?
How does her canonical history completely contradict being a Q? There are lots of ways to explain her history while still adding to the fact that she is clearly more than a straightforward El-Aurian
When I was little I thought it was going to be revealed that Guinan was once a Q that gave up her powers to live as a mortal, like that 1 episode where Q comes to try and take a young girl that think's she's a mortal back into the continuum
or perhaps that she was some alien that was able to block Q's abilities to a limited degree
I had always thought of her being part of something more like a universal counterweight to the Q Continuum, not necessarily something to do with her race, but maybe a group she had made her way in to, something the writers never explored or thought of. As a counterweight, they probably wouldn't like each other, but there's nothing they could do about each other as well. It could also play in to the lore dropped in Voyager about how there must always be a certain number of Q in the Continuum, to keep balance with whatever Guinan's group might be.
Or I'm just overthinking as usual, and this idea won't hold water lol
Her being "too vital to history" is a great idea that fits well. Reminds of the Temporal Cold War.
Here's an idea that combines some of what you have mentioned. What if Guinan's people were getting somewhat close to Q like levels of advancement but only in a few individuals such as Guinan. Then her interactions with the Nexus makes her essentially timeless. Now some aspect of Guinan lives forever outside of normal space time and continues to develop her abilities. While not achieving Q levels of power she might pass those unique traits along to children that she could have in the Nexus. The generations that descend from Guinan would have the ability to exist outside of normal spacetime in a place where thoughts create reality. They develop these abilities over an uncountable amount of time and eventually become the Q. Q upon meeting her on the Enterprise or perhaps some other time earlier recognizes her as the mother of Q kind, and is therefore powerless to do anything to her that would disrupt the rise of Q. Q may also be disgusted at the notion of Q having arisen from something as mundane as a mortal humanoid. It's been implied that Q may have evolved to their station and that humanity has that potential as well. It's also no surprise how little the Q think of mortals and their arrogance may make them ashamed to be descended from Guinan.
How about this theory.... Guinan and her kind, (the El Aurian's) have an essence within them that can be triggered by the essence within the Q. Lets say sometime in the far past, a Q used their power against one of Guinan's kind and that person dissapeared forever, ...but so did that Q. ...neither one has ever returned. The Q are terrified of Guinan's species because they are aware of the past incident between an El Aurian, and a Q member. That's the big secret that the Q hide and do not speak of, ...that one of their all powerfull members vanished, after confronting Guinan's kind. They do not speak of that incident, because it's proof the Q are not invulnerable. Guinan was also aware of the myth surrounding the confrontation between her kind and the Q. This leads us to that scene where she raises her hands defensively at Q, ...quietly reminding him, ...that if he uses his powers against her, something might happen to him. Maybe there's some truth to the myth, about the missing Q and El Aurian, ...because Q didn't use his power on Guinan.🤔 Here's something else, ...A whole planet of El Aurian's, ...and a lot of fear for the Q, ...maybe there's more to the story of how exactly the Borg found Guinan's planet 🤔
Borg killed all of her people, she was no Q
@@jdsim9173 who's comment were you replying to? Because my comment alludes to fact the Borg was pointed to Guinan's planet by the Q. Also not all of her people were killed, ...like Guinan, some escaped, or were off world when the Borg attacked.
@@rond9554 oh shit. that's a lot to think over. i'd bet a show about el aurian society and this being the big reveal in the finale of season 1 would do surprisingly well.. We'd finally have an interesting reason again to meet more Q.
Tengo la teoría que la raza humana en algún momento evolucione en seres aún más poderosos que los de continum Q y que Guinan y su especie sean la contraparte de su especie:59 10:59 10:59 10:59 10:59 10:59 10:59 10:59 10:59
Thank you, you are giving answers to hard questions, I'm glad I found your little corner of the universe.
I always figured that her species may not have had great power to affect things like the Q, but instead had a specific power, skill, or ability that specifically worked against the Q in some way. Maybe her species had the ability to reflect, absorb, mirror, or otherwise negate cosmic powers used against them. That would have made her quite the annoyance to the Q, but been entirely useless against something like the Borg.
For a while I thought maybe her species was simply immune to the Q's power for whatever reason and that irked them, but the stance she takes in that one episode definitely looks like she's prepared to use some sort of "power" against him.
I Always thought Guinan was the next step in evolution for her people. Somewhere between a Q and a human.
She’s a mischievous little imp. He’s a mischievous little imp. That’s the problem.
Yes, but she's a mischievous little imp who's also got a lot of sense which is more than you can say of him.
As for the question whether she was a Q - I think before the movie Generations came along, they might have had a vague plan to make her a Q too, and the first encounter between them certainly does give food for that thought. But then on the other hand, I think Q refers to Guinan as "that creature", which might indicate that he sees her as a member of a species different from his own. Perhaps the makers of Star Trek were not entirely sure at that point who or what Guinan may actually be...
Generations does seem to suggest that she is an El-Aurian like Soran because she is found with him together on that ship of El-Aurian refugees - but then it's never openly said that she IS an El-Aurian and she might have been on that ship by coincidence, or have masked as an El-Aurian on purpose. Also, the Q generally seem to be more powerful (and have more longevity) than the El-Aurians from what we are shown in the TNG series. For all we know, she might be "Ms Q" from Voyager but in another form (I do think that Q also have shapeshifting abilities or can at least control how others perceive their appearance).
She also might be an Organian, but I do not know anything baout that species' longevity.
Just like liars will think others are always lying, an imp will always think someone else is being impish.
You say, his nickname for her indicates he perceives her as belonging to a species different to us own, yet "that creature" is a title a self-absorbed divorcee who is completely lacking in self-awareness or the ability of self-reflection would call an ex-wife. And we know, Q is self-absorbed with no sense of self-awareness or self-reflection.
I love that moment when it looks like he wants to use his powers on her, and based upon her hand motions (which is a picture seen on your video, in fact), she counterspells to prevent it.
The Nexus theory might be the best one, but I think that leaving it a mystery surrounding the enigma that is Guinan is the way it should be. Based on her interaction with Q, she is obviously much more powerful than we the audience will ever know.
Or maybe the next season of Picard will give more clues, as Q returns, and there are rumors that Guinan may show up as well.
Whoopi has already excepted the role. Picard, the actor anyway asked her and she said yes!
Theory: Guinan drew the energy ribbon to the ship because she was already in the Nexus in the future, in a closed time loop kind of way.
OOoOOooo i like
Like Picard and the temporal anomaly in the last episodes of TNG.
I like it.
Hmmm interesting perspective I like this!
would play out well with Generations and explain how guinan could find picard in the nexus. If she was in the past in the nexus then the timeless trace of her that remains there would have no idea who Picard is. But the trace of future guinan on the other hand would know him and also that she could find him somewhere in this timeless realm.
Doesn't work. The only time the energy ribbon is manipulated by outside forces is when it's near enough to an exploding star.
100% she has some power that Q was clearly aware of. You don't take that stance/pose against someone you know to control time and space without having something. Great video.
She can resist Q's powers, sort of like an unstoppable force and unmovable object. That's what pisses of Q. They are sentinels that can't be moved.
My thoughts exactly
The reaction to her I felt would mean she could hurt a Q if handled uncarefully. While not being on par with a Q, still something dangerous. Let's say you are visiting a friend all relaxed and chatting and all of a sudden a King Cobra saunters on up within striking distance. I think you might have a similar reaction.
Yeah I always felt Q was jealous or slightly afraid of her like she was one of the only other beings that could rival him
@@rachelle4907 he's mad because guinan works at ten-forward, which contains his one weakness: dinner forks
I like the nexus theory. Works and doesn’t make too many plot holes or her being overpowered
I've always wondered what Guinan had up her sleeve when Q offered to remove her and she went into a defensive posture. She seem like she might countered or block an attack from Q. I really hope that it's something that they're planning to reveal in the upcoming season of STP.
Q got kinky with Guinan she does not want to talk about it🤣
I wonder how godlike beings perceive reality in Star Trek. Picard and co might see Guinan's corporeal disguise, while Q can see right through it.
Guinan IS corporeal, just from a very old, long-lived species who have some power that resists or at least annoys the Q. Remember, her people were wiped out by the Borg, so they can't be non-corporeal or even all that powerful. They just have something about them that perturbs Q.
Guinan is corporeal herself. Her people were wiped out by the Borg, so they can't be noncorporeal. She just has some kind of ability to resist, or at least annoy, Q. Maybe she's special, even among her own people. A mutant, perhaps.
Cisco punched Q in the face and never saw him again. I took that to mean that Q didn't realize what Cisco was until after the fact.
@@skullpoker69 Cisco's heritage was half Wormhole Alien, another incoporeal lifeform but also nonlinear (unlike Q), so possibly beyond even the Q. Neither of them knew that up to that time, but you may be right - Q might have realized it at that point and it scared him off.
@@jiyu9694 Q's like the Joker, and Sisko was having none of it.
She's probably an agent of the guardian of forever protecting the time line.
Okay, that's going real deep down the rabbit hole.
That makes sense, her personality and the fact she is kind of of a immortal being due to part of her is spread throughout all time would make her a good choice as a gradian of forever or just a gradian of time in general.
Great video! Here’s a theory… Maybe the Q Continuum are future, more evolved versions of any surviving El-Aurians after the Borg attack nearly exterminated their race. This would explain why TNG Q was hesitant of both the Borg and Guinan as any action could effect his species own existence and overall evolution to becoming higher, nigh omnipotent beings.
If Q removed her it could be like killing his own grandmother! Makes more sense than many theories.
Nope. Q aren’t even really humanoid. Q made it clear that their appearance as a humanoid only was for humanoid’s benefit.
agreed
Thanks Ric for your thoughts on this topic, It is interesting. I hope we will get some answers in season two of Picard BUT NOT ALL.
We cant assume she actually is El-Aurian, Q says straight out "This creature is not what she appears to be, she's an Imp..." Q has never actually lied to the crew so thats good enough for me.
Was Guinan's species, or her presence in the nexus known to Picard/the audience at that time? idk much about ST so sorry if it's obvious, but that could be what he means by "not what she appears"
True, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's not El-Aurian either, "she's not what she appears" just means there's more to her than meets the eye.
Well that makes it more likely that she is seeing that Q had very impish qualities himself.
She could be like Mr. Mxyzptlk in power and a rival of the Q? Adopting the form of a member of a fallen race might be her way to lay low for awhile?
Q might be a little bit more petty than the rest of the continuum. So it’s possible he’s just building her up as much more of a threat. My theory is that guinan outsmarted Q in some way.
I've been waiting for answers on this since I was 10
And still not any closer to the truth...
Perhaps ST:P will alleviate your curiosity
(that was dark humour btw)
I wish they'll talk about the el aurian and Q conflict as mentioned in latest Picard episode. Q's technically can change between timelines, while el aurians are fixed per timeline.... So how their conflict started??? An el aurian being moved by Q across timelines???
Great video! Love all the theories.
Q did seem a bit afraid of her in that interaction. Her being immutable to his powers would make sense
If she was immutable to his powers then she wouldn't have bothered with her hand up like that would she ?? Maybe I'm not getting it....
Maybe they are fighting...it's just in a different reality of time in a way imperceptible to the human eye. What seemed like a few seconds to us could have been a lot longer.
Maybe she acts like her character on the view where she twists the truth with lies to fit her narrative and fake it until you make it, no wonder her entire species was taken by the Borg.
@@rastiga9196 11 months since I made that comment it seems that the current season of Picard is addressing this right now. I don't watch the series really but I have seen a few clips popping up in my recommended UA-cam feed lately featuring q and guinan
@@eluminaryxarrais7735 Cool, I always loved Qs character. I liked Whoopie before she got the brain worms but never really liked that character Guinan.
Clearly Guinan sacrificed her eyebrows for special powers
This comment deserves far more likes than it currently has.. LMFAO!
I wish the show would have canonized the El-Aurians with smooth brows. That would have at least visually set them apart from humans.
I heard somewhere if you shave your eyebrows off, they grow back twice as thick. Probably bullshit, but I'm not gonna be the one to test it out
@@victorymansions It happens because as freshly cut hairs grow, they aren't as tapered at the end, so one perceives them as thicker.
Lol
“Yeeting her from existence” is now a phrase in my vocabulary. Thanks.
I think she conned Q into giving her powers, and she told the continuum and they allowed her to retain her powers with stipulations. She could've done it when she was much younger and probably looked much differently and that's why he didnt immediatly recognize her. The continuum wont allow him to attack her in any way so they basically just mess with each other and try and push the other into attacking first so that they can attack and not get in trouble with the continuum,and possibly even be backed up by the continuum since they're likely keeping a close eye on her.
i think that Guinan's perceptions allow her to countermand Q's powers just because she can see what he's doing and jumps through the loopholes in his technique (for example, she was unaffected when Q teleported everyone else out of Ten Forward)
When did she ever "countermand" his power? I can't recall once where she prevented Q from doing anything - don't you think she would have escaped the Borg had she the ability?
@@Cheepchipsable Remember when Q teleported himself and Picard into 10 Forward, simultaneously teleporting everyone else out, because he wanted some private time? The "spell" (for want of a better word) had no apparent effect on Guinan; in fact, he wasn't even aware of her presence (unlike her awareness of his) until she revealed herself.
@@bobmathis-friedman6742 I should have read through the comments first, I just said the same thing.
Next what is a Douwd? Another omnipotent species that we only saw in one episode of TNG.
Right! And what about the Hosnak and the Hurq
@@AODRHINO Crazy how a civilization of 10 billion so close to Federation territory with technology that rivals or even surpasses the Federation's was never before encountered until that episode.
@@Miimu5210 Things that make you go HHmmmmm
@@Miimu5210 What about the First Federation? Never really got followed up on outside of their initial appearance. Shatner uses them in one of his novels, and maybe a couple other books I haven't read, but not much else as far as I know.
🤔🤔🤔
Certifiably the best theory regarding guinan I've ever heard.
The way she raised her hands implies cosmic abilities of her own. We all see it, yet it never gets addressed nor mentioned ever again.
I’d always imagined Guinan’s people were the Q who were smart enough not to become omnipotent.
Yet not smart enough to not be assimilates by the Borg...
@@JoaoPedro-gc8mw Many species have done this in sci-fi and reality. The Alterans of the Stargate franchise were split between the Ancients and Ori. Some Alterans chose not to ascend and continue on the mortal plane of existence. They eventually fell to war, disease, and dispersal.
@@ozfocus Yeah, I know. I was just joking
@@JoaoPedro-gc8mw For sure. I took it as a joke. It actually raises a good point too
That makes a lot of sense
My headcanon is that she has no powers whatsoever. She has been alive for over 500 years, has lived a very VERY fulfilling life, made and lost dear friends and loved ones, had her planet destroyed and species nearly wiped out by the Borg, touched the Nexus and returned. She knows that Q is nothing more than a schoolyard bully and there is nothing he can do to her that won't hurt her anymore than she already has been, and if he threatens to kills her she has lived such an experienced life that death is not worry for her. She knows this, he knows she knows this and she knows he knows this. It's nothing more than a kid standing up to a bully and the bully backing down because they can't be picked on anymore.
Yeah exactly this. If her species had power/she had power then the Borg wouldn't have facerolled her species into extinction.
If she was in Discovery or Picard, she’d be like “oh hell no! Something is seriously wrong!”
When wokeness destroyed star trek. It's too bad the actor of Guinan went nuts.
Don’t worry, neither of those shows are canon. At best they are a troll by a rogue Q.
we have seen many species in star trek can evolve beyond physical beings, maybe Guinan's species were close to this leap, and when she was partially trapped in the nexus she and her other self are permanently connected, so she is never in danger as she can return to the nexus whenever she wants that's why she seems so calm even when faced with the borg, it also allows her other self to warn her of timeline changes and protect her from the Q in some fashion.
Seeing how guinan didn't age from the 1800s to tng I wonder how the writers are going to explain her appearance in Picard.
Extremely slow aging process, it is said, that they can live for a very long time, possibly thousands of years !!
She might be able to alter her appearance for others comfort.
They may borrow a bit from Vulcan aging. The have lifespans averaging two centuries, and look like a 30-40 year old human until the last few decades of life.
say its just makeup to make her seem older.
Her species is El-Aurian, humanoids that can live up to 2000 years or more
Like you, I have always been intrigued by Guinan's defensive pose upon (re)-encountering Mr. Q. I believe Q is correct in saying Guinan is more than what she seems, and maybe she has some hitherto unrevealed powers which Q finds threatening.
I hope this will be explored in any possible TNG reprisals.
Same. This particular scene had me anxious to know more and hoping at least something would be revealed in the future. Unfortunately, we haven't seen an ounce more about it. Truthfully, it makes me kind of sad to know that we're "running out of time", so to speak. All these actors are getting really old now.
It seems pretty clear to me that the writers changed their mind about Guinan's backstory as they went. The original plan was for her to formerly be a Q, who gave up her powers, but then that was dropped. I base this on all the heavy implications between her early scenes with Q, in particular there was one episode when Q was talking to Guinan and he looked at her pointedly and said "well, maybe I'll just give up my powers."
I think the writers decided later to give Guinan a tragic Borg-related backstory later, so they just sort of ignored those hints in later episodes.
I think she was given the powers of the Q like Riker was, brought into the continuum, given all the powers, but for some reason was kicked out and stripped of her powers, but she got away before they could take it all away. That's why she has her inner sight and that's why she is alive after hundreds of years
I always wondered how powerful Guinan truly was.
It's implied that she thinks she can go toe-to-toe with Q, and he seems to take her seriously. Perhaps she's the Q equivalent of a master of jujutsu - able to turn back anything he can throw at her - but her stance in that scene doesn't suggest she's purely reactive.
@@petereng1977
Guinen's max card is take 3, with MANY reverse cards, and Q's is take 250. Picard "Royal Straight Flush."
Me "go fish."
@@jmoneyjoshkinion4576 Most importantly, she has access to the N word.
You think she’s powerful because she scared a Q. Yet the Borg drove her and her people from the nexus. Lazy writing to tie her character in to a movie? Who really knows. Always thought of her as an unofficial counselor and someone who bested Q but not the The Q Continuum.
What always fascinated me was in their first encounter on the show... she clearly adopts a defensive posture WHILE knowing full well what Q is capable of....i mean who in their right mind would square up against Q if they didnt have some substantial power of their own? That would be like me being stone cold sober and trying to throw down with Connor McGregor. Not wise at all
not only that, but Q gets in a defensive position too. That's like Mike Tyson finding it necessary to square up with a hamster
@@absolutcabbagery3661 It does look like she's about to counterspell anything he tries.
Eh if you're not an old man who isn't looking Connor McGregor isn't a threat
Bruh even you could beat Connor mcgregor
To be fair… “You hit me! Jean-Luc never hit me!” “I’m not Picard.”
My theory is that Guinan is a Lost Princess of Amber and the reason for both her perception and Q's animosity is simply that she is more Real than anything or anyone else in the Star Trek universe. At some point King Oberon figured that Elalurian blood would be a good addition to the Amber bloodline, but She was never introduced to Amber before his death.
If Picard is a vital part of humanity becoming Q like, then it would stand to reason Quinan helping Picard throughout the years is an integral part of that so Q may not be allowed to mess with her.
I always despised that element anyway. Human exceptionalism is pathetic and childish. We are literally just another species of animal, and "humanity becoming Q like one day", despite the countless other races in the ST universe, is WAY too close to religious notions of humans being more important than all other species. Not to mention the Federation is supposed to be completely diverse, and a galaxy-wide endeavour, yet coincidentally most ship crews are 95% human.
Ugh, humans are disgusting.
I always thought that Guinan met Q through her years of longevity. Maybe Q and guinan had some sort of deal that Q thought he was going to out smart her but she turned the tables.
i like the idea of Q actually being so wise and benevolent that he did exactly what was needed to push the crew to acheive higher levels necessary to later save humanity. Guinan was in on it to some degree. both being to mature to require any affection or acknowledgment from humans.
I am glad to see that I'm not the only one that always wondered about this.
There are a few other incredibly powerful beings in TNG lore. She could easily just be another being with similar powers to Q who is choosing to live like a El-Aurian. We have seen similar concepts played out before.
What if the El Aurians were the closest species in the Universe to evolve into Q type beings, the Continuum fearing a power shift, or a Rival. Nudges the Borg at the El Aurian home world, which explains why Guinan has such Animosity against Q
They should've had a writer like you on the staff dude cuz that's a good idea.
@@Antifag1977 nah I have one off good ideas
I love this idea.
Dude… This is legendary stuff. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Chris West...Q did not do the borg thing. I saw that episode that many times. It was little Q. And Q told little Q...how many times do I have to tell you DON'T ANTAGONIZE THE BORG. I'm a trekkie.
I always thought it was possible that L orians could have been the race that evolved into the Q and some of them just didn't change
Maybe she was like Captain Sisko.
His father was human, his mother was a Worm hole inhabitant.
Maybe The Q is on her family tree.
The Qs existed billions of years before the events of the series, probably before the El-aurian's planet was even habitable
@@Nisselak do billions of years matter when you are a being that exists outside of time and can be anywhere at any time?
@@chriskoschik391 that's what I was going to say
Q an M were both born at the instant of the Big Bang.
I think that Guinen is a representation of a force within the the Nexus. When Pichard enters, he has to conjure up some sort of guide to teach him what's going on and how to navigate within the Nexus. So, Guinen appears and helps Pichard work his way through the Mexus, however, Picard hasn't left the Nexus and his memory slip allows him to travel back through time and when needed, Guinen appears as his guide. Q, on the other hand, represents the chaos of the Nexus, he goaded Picard and torments him, showing Picard that he is utterly powerless to escape the Nexus and he is a representation of the chaotic part of Picards mind, that part that he is unable to control or do anything about. Both these characters are nearly a reflection of Picards mind, that is still caught up in the Nexus. Seeing as
Fascinating info and I like this video very much 👍
I always felt like the Q were related to those that built the city around the Guardian of Forever and may be related to the Preservers and Founders. Maybe the El Aurian are related somehow.
I had a very similar idea. Maybe the Q and the El Aurians are descendants of different factions of the same parent civilisation? Q's lack of lethal force against Guinan might be the result of a long-standing treaty between the two factions that he's not willing to get into trouble for violating.
Been waiting decades for this answer, I'm going to enjoy this one dude.
It's possible the Nexus experience drew the attention of Q, she may have been a candidate to become a Q or at least someone interesting due to her abilities to perceive reality at a higher level than most mortals. So, I think there was some sort of game or test with Q, and Guinan rejected becoming a Q or cooperating at all. She outsmarted Q's attempts to play with her, all his backfired and made him look dumb. So she's seen as an imp for causing trouble for all of Q's plans and not playing along.
It's a great big old Multiverse - I think Guinan is something we had never seen before and possibly since.
Guinan's knowledge of 'this isn't right' in Yesterday's Enterprise could be merely recognition of incongruity between that timeline and the time loop delineated in Time's Arrow.
THANK YOU. I was beginning to think that I was alone in the universe.
I feel like whatever would have been making the el-Aurians close to omnipotence would have been lost when assimilated. the borg may even have been intentionally trying to stop that if they knew.
What if it was a planet that enabled them to be suoer psychic
I sincerely doubt the Borg could have cared less.
They don't exactly have a stellar track record of utilizing the "biological distinctiveness" of the races they assimilate; a drone is just a drone, no matter what they seem to be capable of, and all ability/durability of a drone stems from the technological implants while more or less eschewing and ignoring any biological or evolutionary advantages that the victim races might possess.
TL:DR If the Borg managed to assimilate a Q, it would basically be indistinguishable from an assimilated human...regardless of its near-omnipotent powers...just as assimilated Betazeds don't play mind games with opponents or sense their hostile intent and deal with the threat before they actually attack.
Borg are mainly interested in technology, and assimilate the lifeforms that use it, so they can add the knowledge of it to their own. The Borg will not go after a planet inhabited by an assimilated race if they have no advanced technology. They are also known to ignore races that offer nothing to them, such as the Kazon. However, when a drone is assimilated, they are sorted for different purposes within the collective based on their biology, as Borg implants cannot function without a living body. The Borg cannot however assimilate races from outside of this dimension such as Species 8472, or that exist in more than three dimensions such as the Q.
Intuition is the alchemical transmutation of knowledge, understanding, and wisdom!
I agree with the theory that she somehow tricked Q into giving her some powers and that she uses it to not only hold on to that power far longer than he intended her to have it, but that she also uses them to keep him at bay from taking it back. I'm not sure if it helps her, in whatever it is she does, other than tend the bar in 10 Forward. But I think that she is like Aladdin, tricking the Genie back into the bottle, after being granted his third wish, and that there isn't much Q can do about it, hence the animosity between them.