I always went with that that area is connected to the rest of the UFP, it’s just above and/or below the plane of the galaxy/what is represented on maps.
Yeh. I always find it weird that when a map is shown,.they use a 2D map to try and represent a 3D area. Also, considering the size of space (making your trip down to the corner shop looks like peanuts in comparison) I'd be surprised if the whole "everything in blue = federation and everything in red = Klingon etc. is more a fake projection Vs actual reality where the actual maps of blue, red, green etc. is a more more wiery as Klingon/federatin/romulan influence only extents to a number of systems within the coloured areas and a number of heavily chartered routes between them - so the enterprise D could explore "federation space" (according to the map) and still discover new species and civilisations because, well.....the maps aren't actually accurate.
@@depreseo Problems resulting from trying to represent 3D space in 2D are not new, look at any flat map of the Earth. (With flat Earth maps the biggest problem is coping with the fact that the Earth isn’t flat, of course.) Anyway. The fact that the galactic disk is about a thousand light years thick leaves lots of room for regions of space claimed by various powers to overlap as seen on such maps, but how would we represent that without requiring some sort of holographic technology? Lots of cross-section maps showing which power’s claimed territory overlaps which other power’s at various locations? Something else I’ve never seen or heard addressed- the whole quadrant naming convention is an invention of the UFP. What conventions do the Klingons use? The Romulans? All the other powers? Is it common to all per some treaty we’ve never heard of, like the unspoken agreement that makes two ships from opposing powers always “right side up” when they randomly run into each other?
@@markfergerson2145the federations is more an exploratory body than either the klingons or romulans, so their maps would be larger and more detailed. Foreign powers would get a hold of these maps, either freely given, traded, or stolen, and would most likely base their own courses based on the same maps. That, and there would have to be some kind of agreeded upon mapping technique in order to properly show territories. And don't forget the god-magic that is the universal translator, it probably automatically changes everything over into the other side's map standard. As far as the ship's orientation goes, that's just lazy writing that we're all supposed to ignore
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"There's a word for that - - Surrounded." - Captain Benjamin Lafayette Sisko. Maybe the Romulans have some legitimate beefs?
This contradicts apocrypha (and canon?) that the Romulans were fighting an all out war on their border opposite the Neutral Zone during the Federation's Golden Age. And that's what kept them completely isolationist during that time. They didn't want to stir the Federation or even let the Federation know they were vulnerable while they were in a total war of attrition. Once they destroyed the other power they were then free to concentrate on their Alpha rivals once again..... "We're back."
It's been thought to be a thing at least since the Romulans 'reappeared' in early TNG. Their commander even implied they had been occupied with something like that or equally absorbing, that episode.
The UFP's local neighborhood is a fairly thick section of the Milky Way. The enemies could've been above or below the areas that Starfleet was exploring.
Starfleet maps much like chess should be Tridimensional meaning the Federation could border 2 places in the same place of a 2-dimensional map because the borders are at different levels, or they could control territory above or below another government's territory allowing them to pass to other areas of the quadrant.
Why? this doesn't make sense because the entire setting is in a galaxy, which while not completely flat, is a disk. The entire point of border is to shows the area where the governing bodies exerts control. its both political AND military, in the case of Trek universe with warp drive, having a abnormal shaped border in the Y axis does nothing for anyone, because a small mistake or inaccuracy in jump just create political issues.
@@GIIToTIIG "Why? this doesn't make sense because the entire setting is in a galaxy, which while not completely flat, is a disk." Come on man, don't be obtuse - that "disk" is hundreds of light-years tall, and thus could easily accommodate what OP was saying.
@@GIIToTIIG You mean Z Axis, X and Y are what make a 2 dimensional image. It's a "disc" but it's about 1,000 Light Years thick out at the arms, and it's 2,600 Light Years thick towards the center. Sure that's a fraction of the radius that's about 50,000 Light Years, but it's far from nothing. 1,000 LY is plenty to go around another empire. I mean do you know how many star systems are within 1,000 LY of each other? A lot. To you the galaxy is a disc, but to some alien it might be a wheel. X, Y, Z is relative to your perspective. If you can occupy a star system and go around, civilizations will. Not saying it's impossible to fully control a region, but space exists in three dimensions and it's weird you'd try to pretend otherwise. Space combat won't look like a WWII battle like Star Trek does either.
@@GIIToTIIG The galaxy is 1,000 light years deep at it's edges and 3,600 in the middle bulge. But you are also overlooking the fact the the galaxy itself is surrounded by space. They could simply leave the galaxy and re-enter it at some other point. This is why 2D maps don't work in a 3D environment. You cannot have a border if others can simply fly around it. It's like nations on earth only have jurisdiction 12 miles out from their coastline. The cannot own all of the ocean. The same applies with planets. Nobody can own all the space between the stars. How would you police it without absolutely huge fleets of ships? If I'm to believe Star Trek just about every bit of the Milky Way is part of some greater empire, union, confederation, etc etc all constantly pushing and shoving against each other. Yet the super advanced aliens only ever have one planet.
Looking at how far Earth is from Klingon space vs Romulan space just makes it even sillier that a Klingon somehow ended up on Earth by chance in the pilot of ST: Enterprise but it was many episodes before Romulans were ever encountered.
@@347Jimmy are you sure japan was not aware of indoesians? I mean japan did have a few wars in korea and they did have navel vessels. Of course just cause you are aware it dont mean you seek trade.
@@Marveryn the earliest known contact between the Japanese and Indonesians was in the 17th century, so as far as we know the Dutch travelled there first. But you raise an interesting point about awareness- the Japanese most likely were quite aware of Indonesia before they (or the Dutch) travelled there. Just applying this analogy to the Trek situation, the Romulans probably knew about us long before we ever met them.
The Milky Way galaxy is 100000 light years across but the galaxy is roughly 1,000 light-years thick. So, it’s very long but relatively thin so I’m thinking that the map could be more squishy and not like we see it on screen, perhaps.
I'm very interested in the individual states marked in yellow on the fringes of Klingon space. The Klingons have always tended to advance their boarders was by way of peaceful means; Eternal Peace for whomever gets in their way, that is. Anyone who can enforce a hard boarder with both the Empire and the Federation has to be very interesting.
Like the First Federation? If a single one of their gigantic ships (with an apparent crew of one!) could take the Enterprise-nil in tow with little effort, it could do the same to anyone else’s ships. I’ve always hoped for another appearance by them *in canon* but no luck so far.
I believe those are just nebulae - various nebulae are marked on that map with different colours, but they just say the nebula names, not the names of any civilizations or empires.
This is a great video. There's been a need for a little clarification after a lot of the things that have happened in the prime timeline. Examples: Dominion ships crossing over Romulan territory to shoot KDF/Starfleet ships, the actual size of the federation, some of the named systems that you included in this video already, etc. I am always trying to keep a good map in my mind when I re-watch old episodes, and so many of the maps you find online contradict each other. I'm also really interested in Starfleet's updated fleet post Dominion War. Is the Sovereign meant to be a direct successor to the Galaxy in terms of role? I know that's a muddled question, as Starfleet had to come to terms with the waning golden area of exploration and produce ships with far more advanced defensive capabilities. As such, the Sovereign can be seen a somewhat of a 'fast battleship,' but it also still contains all the science labs and sensors etc, that a deep space explorer would need. How does that compare to the Intrepid class, and was that ship updated in canon to a new variant? I know the Defiant, Akira, Steamrunner, and Norway were pure combat-focused, but there was the Luna and Nova. Is there a direct successor to the Oberth? I read somewhere that the Nova was short-range science, so is there anything really properly replacing the Oberth an an all-around science-focused vessel? Ok, I've let my inner nerd out here for far too long. But I would love to see a video or segment of one talking about it, if there hasn't been one already. Cheers!
Ive always head canoned that, kinda like how in real life flat projections of a round earth are heavily distorted, the Star Trek maps are also experiencing heavy distortions, and that some of the territories shown are actually above or below other powers. It might also explain how, for example, many "Alpha Quadrant" species arent depicted as being in the Alpha Quadrant. Maybe they are, just a 2-D map with the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons all ontop of each other would be hard to read.
You know… Looking at that map just drives home how *nonsense* warp drive scaling is. Like, the Enterprise-D can be out there, exploring the frontier, and still somehow warp back to Earth in the space of, like, a few hours, in case of brain-hijacking parasites attempting a takeover or Wesley and his friends having a training accident. (In the latter case especially, there’s no way they would have delayed the inquiry for weeks or months for the Enterprise to make it. They would have just been told about the results after it was all over.) Kirk’s Enterprise could reach both the Galactic Barrier and the Great Barrier at the *center* of the galaxy. (Sure, the former would have to *completely* encase the galaxy, but Earth is nowhere near the galactic center. Unless Star Trek 5 is stricken from canon, I suppose…) Why was Voyager having so much trouble getting home? 😂
i mean, everything in Star Trek has a Narative Travel Time, even the Turbolifts, at least for the Galactic Barrier there is a good Head Canon Idea: they traveld up or down so not that hard for the Enterprise to do ... but only that they found a buoy from a ship that was launched 2 years after First Contact and with only able to travel at the speed of light it's quite ambitious project but well, SciFi in general could be improved a lot if authors have a better sence of scale
Love for you to do a follow-up video on the Shackleton Expanse! Also, the territories to the galactic south (read: rimward) of Sol are referred to in beta canon as the Taurus Reach.
AFAIK that area seems to only exist post-Khitomer. I believe that's relatively new territory settled after the Federation establishes good relations with the Klingons and that the Klingon Empire allows the Federation free and safe passage between Starbase 234 and Archer.
Starfleet's territorial policy can be summed up as "Space is full of really cool stuff that we want to see. We keep going in a given direction until we run into someone who punches us in the face for looking at 'their' stuff"
i tend to assume that a lot of weirdness in "why is the federation that shape" or "why is the federation out there?" can be explained by the fact that the federation grows mainly by absorbing other polities in as new members. so that bit on the other side of the romulans? the territory of species/star-nations found by a starfleet ship mapping along the borders of romulan space, which decided to join the UFP for the socioeconomic and military advantages that brings.
Don't forget that Terra Lysium is somewhere DEEP in the Beta Quadrant (well beyond the Shackleton Expanse), and somewhere out there lie the Fendomar (Janeway mentions them in Endgame).
3:30 For pre warp politics, I will once again point to the North Sentinel Islands. India claims the whole island chain as their own territory and controls access. If you want to go there, you have to ask them. The inhabitants are pre-metallurgy and murderously isolationist. So they don't do diplomacy or seafaring. And they definitely do not consider themselves Indians or take part in the Indian government. It is about as close to a "pre-warp" case as we can get on earth.
I was excited when I saw this video and it’s a great video but one minor thing, in season 1 episode 5 of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds the R’ongovian Protectorate who are a species who live between the Romulan and Klingon empires was seeking to ally themselves with whoever could empathise with them, as it happened they allied themselves with the Federation to the point of raising the UFP flag on their Solar Sail ship, I’m not sure if they joined the federation but it might be that when the map was created in the 24th century that the R’ongovians had no alliance with the UFP and the space between the empires was not blue, denoting federation territory.
Fun tidbit about Seven Of Nine in Star Trek Fleet Command, one of her perks is an omage to Star Wars' This is where the fun begins. Of course the perk doesn't say that verbatim but that's what it heavily alludes to
they are from TOS - The Corbomite Maneuver i would guess they're some old Power that retreatet again from the Galaxy, like the Vorlons and others from Babylon 5
I like to imagine that the "Alpha/Beta" quadrant naming confusion comes down to a translation issue between some of the major powers of the area. Maybe the Vulcan alphabet is similar enough to the Human alphabet that they have an 'a' and a 'b' sound - but their alphabet has those letters in the opposite order. So if you're referring to the "first" quadrant in the list, a human might call it the Alpha quadrant, whereas a Vulcan might call if the "Beta" quadrant. The Romulans probably orchestrated this confusion in the first place by editing some well-place communiques in the early days of the Federation. And then you get the Klingons chiming into argue that the real delineation is between "subjugated space" and "yet-to-be-conquered space", and *of course* they're going to claim that their space covers most of (what they call) "Alpha space"...
Keep in mind most of space is... well, empty space, or star systems without much of interest in them. So I generally figure various powers just claim individual systems, not big painted swaths on a map like this. You can draw in a map like this if you want as an overall approximation, but especially on the 'borders' I imagine you'd find plenty of systems that belong to the other side, all mixed and blended together. It's not like on Earth where you have clear geographical boundaries between countries.
I don’t remember the name of the novel but one of the destiny verse books mentioned that the failure to use the starbase at farpoint because it was a space dwelling life form, meant that federation attempts at exploration in the beta quadrant were stalled and with the return of the Romulans, the USS enterprise was pulled away from it mission of exploration to help defend the frontiers. I also think that the outer part of the Federation‘s presence in the beta quadrant is limited by the end of the Orion arm of the Galaxy. There may well be a large gap between galactic arms like the void in Voyager s5e1.
It would have made so much more sense for Sol, Vulcan, Andoria, Romulus, and Qo'nos to be in the Alpha Quandrant, then going clockwise around the galaxy would be the Beta (Cardiassia, Bajor, etc), Gamma (where it is), and Delta (also where it is). That way you're going in alphabetical order for the Greek letters and lining things up with the descriptions of where the systems are as far as "Alpha Quadrant powers" are concerned.
I always felt like the dividing line between the alpha and beta quadrants running down the centre of the federation was kinda dumb because the whole alpha/beta quadrant divide functionally never comes up in the show. It'd make far more sense if Sector 001 was on the 45 degree line of the alpha quadrant. That would make the Federation, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians all firmly Alpha Quadrant powers, which is how the shows treated them.
In the 80s FASA game universe it was a unorganized triangle where piracy ruled, many skirmishes between UFP-Klingon/Romulans occured there... they never got to Cardassian or Borg stage (wish they didn't kill it as canon) but I think most maps now have it as UFP space... thanks for a great video.
FASA had this area called the Triangle, I belive. Perhaps the maps of Fasa are not so much not canon as just very old, and the areas between Klingon and romulan space were not as close together. Just a notion as a map can change, depending mainly on War and Politics.
When the gang down the road try to surround you, you don't react well, especially when the weirdo tries to get behind yer back, y'know him, Tomed... Tommy? anyway caused a bit of an incident. Was years ago. Anyway all this Hi Vi's these days, who needs streetlights. 😂
At this point in the canon timeline post-Picard, wouldn’t it be appropriate to differentiate the Borg as either the hostile Collective and the UFP aligned Cooperative under Queen Jurati?
I think this whole area on this map is maybe about 2000 light years in diameter, maybe even less, im not sure, so for Voyager that distance is only a 2 year journey, considering they originally had decades to come back home, this area is just a small portion of both Alpha and Beta quadrant, the quadrants are so big, it would take years and definitely more than a decade for conventional warp drives to go across these distances
@@gate8475 Oh is it just a small part of the Alpha and beta? i see. It looks like its portraying the quadrants in full. Isn't Earth fairly far out on an arm in the milky way?
2 52...... It's funny you bring that up, traveling up and over. I don't think I've seen a space movie or show that allows ships to travel in all directions. Every ship seems to travel on a 2D plain, like they're still driving cars or sailing boats.
Having Amargosa all the way out there is a little peculiar. The station itself had some TOS-style equipment, suggesting that it had been there a long time as of 2371
Yeah I'd honestly take the map with a ton of salt. With how close Bajor is said to be to earth, soothing silly "small" like 50lys I can only really imagine the federation as a blobby sphere. And for the alpha/beta thing, I don't agree with Sol being the dividing line, but the mid line, with all the known powers being tiny and concentrated in an area the relative size of a pin point to the size of the galaxy.
With territory on the far side of the Klingon and Romulan Empires, they probably have a negotiated corridor for trade and for Starfleet to post ships and stations in those areas. Or vessels passing through either government's territory may be granted limited diplomatic immunity for safe passage purposes. As for exploration, I can well imagine a Klingon ship happening on some anomaly, and the science officer on board simply recommends they call up the Federation for better analysis.
Nothing says territory needs to be connected. Picard and Prodigy hints that the Telaxus asteroid that Neelex settled on became a Federation "world", despite being at the other side of the galaxy and only in comms contact. It's also possible Klingons gave them some of these worlds or a corridor to travel through their territory after making peace in order to continue exploring, in exchange for any knowledge learned.
You left out the speculation that system J-25 and the Federation and Romulan colonies scooped up by the Borg were on the far side of the Romulan Star Empire in that “isolated” blue area. Several Star Trek maps even place J-25 out there.
It would be a interesting plotline in a future Star Trek television series or feature film if this area seceded from the Federation for a variety of reasons and how the Federation, a voluntary union of planets, dealt with it. Accept the secession of a disconnected territory or invade it.
Good video Ric. At the risk of sounding like a huge nerd shouldn't what you call South be Rim ward and North be Core ward. Like wise West would be Spin ward and East would be Aft ward or Trailing. North would actually be toward the "camera" looking down on the galaxy and south would be below the galaxy?
Question...Have Romulans been to Earth? I know there was the Romulan operative from Data's Day. And I think they mentioned one in ST:Picard. But, have Romulan en masse been to Earth? Any Romulan ships ever been in orbit of Earth?
Two dimensional territorial maps are problematic when the disk of the galaxy is 3,000 light years thick out here, plus the halo above and below. A territory shown as 2,000 light years across wouldn't control all space from top to bottom of the disk and other powers could control that space. Smaller powers, say 200ly across, would be just a bubble.
hya rick always good to watch these im always curious to see whats out there too, also have you watched the star Trek continues with Chris Doohan it is kinda fan made sequel mini season to th3e original series it has that classic look and a dash of modern too i really like it i know it is a fan madee series but man it really rocks, even a continued variant of Mirror Mirror named fairest of them all.
I really wish they did a better job to consider travel time in all of this world-building. Galaxy-class ships should have never returned to Earth, and encountering every single major power in such a big universe in one show should be unreasonable to show within a single season.
I am still convinced Section 31 is responsible for the destruction of Romulus and Remus by setting their home star to go super nova!! How else does the Romulan Empire not notice anything anonymous about the star!?!?!?!
I never understood the expansion strategy of the Federation. This exclave territory is not well defendable. Especially with neighbors like the romulans and klingons. There are more safer directions for expansion. Towards the center of the galaxy or the outer regions. There are no big agressive empires there.
I always went with that that area is connected to the rest of the UFP, it’s just above and/or below the plane of the galaxy/what is represented on maps.
Yeh. I always find it weird that when a map is shown,.they use a 2D map to try and represent a 3D area. Also, considering the size of space (making your trip down to the corner shop looks like peanuts in comparison) I'd be surprised if the whole "everything in blue = federation and everything in red = Klingon etc. is more a fake projection Vs actual reality where the actual maps of blue, red, green etc. is a more more wiery as Klingon/federatin/romulan influence only extents to a number of systems within the coloured areas and a number of heavily chartered routes between them - so the enterprise D could explore "federation space" (according to the map) and still discover new species and civilisations because, well.....the maps aren't actually accurate.
Yeah people keep forgetting that space is 3D, there's probably parts of other territories that the UFP has surrounded over and/or under.
@@depreseoyeah it’s gonna be more like a sponge in the centre with strands reaching out, not just a blob.
@@depreseo Problems resulting from trying to represent 3D space in 2D are not new, look at any flat map of the Earth. (With flat Earth maps the biggest problem is coping with the fact that the Earth isn’t flat, of course.)
Anyway.
The fact that the galactic disk is about a thousand light years thick leaves lots of room for regions of space claimed by various powers to overlap as seen on such maps, but how would we represent that without requiring some sort of holographic technology? Lots of cross-section maps showing which power’s claimed territory overlaps which other power’s at various locations?
Something else I’ve never seen or heard addressed- the whole quadrant naming convention is an invention of the UFP. What conventions do the Klingons use? The Romulans? All the other powers? Is it common to all per some treaty we’ve never heard of, like the unspoken agreement that makes two ships from opposing powers always “right side up” when they randomly run into each other?
@@markfergerson2145the federations is more an exploratory body than either the klingons or romulans, so their maps would be larger and more detailed. Foreign powers would get a hold of these maps, either freely given, traded, or stolen, and would most likely base their own courses based on the same maps. That, and there would have to be some kind of agreeded upon mapping technique in order to properly show territories. And don't forget the god-magic that is the universal translator, it probably automatically changes everything over into the other side's map standard.
As far as the ship's orientation goes, that's just lazy writing that we're all supposed to ignore
"There's a word for that - - Surrounded." - Captain Benjamin Lafayette Sisko. Maybe the Romulans have some legitimate beefs?
This contradicts apocrypha (and canon?) that the Romulans were fighting an all out war on their border opposite the Neutral Zone during the Federation's Golden Age.
And that's what kept them completely isolationist during that time.
They didn't want to stir the Federation or even let the Federation know they were vulnerable while they were in a total war of attrition. Once they destroyed the other power they were then free to concentrate on their Alpha rivals once again..... "We're back."
I know exactly what your talking about, it was either in a source book for a startrek adventure game or a novel. I can't really recall
It's been thought to be a thing at least since the Romulans 'reappeared' in early TNG. Their commander even implied they had been occupied with something like that or equally absorbing, that episode.
TOS Balance of Terror the Romulan commander also referred to military achievements in wars, but can't be with the Federation.....same enemy?
The UFP's local neighborhood is a fairly thick section of the Milky Way. The enemies could've been above or below the areas that Starfleet was exploring.
Starfleet maps much like chess should be Tridimensional meaning the Federation could border 2 places in the same place of a 2-dimensional map because the borders are at different levels, or they could control territory above or below another government's territory allowing them to pass to other areas of the quadrant.
Why? this doesn't make sense because the entire setting is in a galaxy, which while not completely flat, is a disk.
The entire point of border is to shows the area where the governing bodies exerts control. its both political AND military, in the case of Trek universe with warp drive, having a abnormal shaped border in the Y axis does nothing for anyone, because a small mistake or inaccuracy in jump just create political issues.
correct take
@@GIIToTIIG "Why? this doesn't make sense because the entire setting is in a galaxy, which while not completely flat, is a disk." Come on man, don't be obtuse - that "disk" is hundreds of light-years tall, and thus could easily accommodate what OP was saying.
@@GIIToTIIG You mean Z Axis, X and Y are what make a 2 dimensional image. It's a "disc" but it's about 1,000 Light Years thick out at the arms, and it's 2,600 Light Years thick towards the center. Sure that's a fraction of the radius that's about 50,000 Light Years, but it's far from nothing. 1,000 LY is plenty to go around another empire. I mean do you know how many star systems are within 1,000 LY of each other? A lot.
To you the galaxy is a disc, but to some alien it might be a wheel. X, Y, Z is relative to your perspective. If you can occupy a star system and go around, civilizations will. Not saying it's impossible to fully control a region, but space exists in three dimensions and it's weird you'd try to pretend otherwise. Space combat won't look like a WWII battle like Star Trek does either.
@@GIIToTIIG The galaxy is 1,000 light years deep at it's edges and 3,600 in the middle bulge. But you are also overlooking the fact the the galaxy itself is surrounded by space. They could simply leave the galaxy and re-enter it at some other point. This is why 2D maps don't work in a 3D environment. You cannot have a border if others can simply fly around it. It's like nations on earth only have jurisdiction 12 miles out from their coastline. The cannot own all of the ocean. The same applies with planets. Nobody can own all the space between the stars. How would you police it without absolutely huge fleets of ships? If I'm to believe Star Trek just about every bit of the Milky Way is part of some greater empire, union, confederation, etc etc all constantly pushing and shoving against each other. Yet the super advanced aliens only ever have one planet.
god i hate the destruction of Romulus so much.
It's been 15 years and I still don't consider it remotely canon.
I loved that movie but destroying the main rival was such a mistake
Destruction of Romulus, Destruction of Shady Sands (Fallout), Destruction of Courosaunt (Star Wars). Pattern recognition.
f the romulans
Looking at how far Earth is from Klingon space vs Romulan space just makes it even sillier that a Klingon somehow ended up on Earth by chance in the pilot of ST: Enterprise but it was many episodes before Romulans were ever encountered.
Skulking about is very time-consuming, especially when done effectively in the Romulan fashion.
I have taken it on faith. And if you call original cannon the romulans did not have warp drive. So it makes everything very interesting
Dutch explorers met the Indonesians long before the isolationist Japanese, and those Dutch guys had to go around Africa to get there 🤷🏻♂️
@@347Jimmy are you sure japan was not aware of indoesians? I mean japan did have a few wars in korea and they did have navel vessels. Of course just cause you are aware it dont mean you seek trade.
@@Marveryn the earliest known contact between the Japanese and Indonesians was in the 17th century, so as far as we know the Dutch travelled there first.
But you raise an interesting point about awareness- the Japanese most likely were quite aware of Indonesia before they (or the Dutch) travelled there.
Just applying this analogy to the Trek situation, the Romulans probably knew about us long before we ever met them.
The Milky Way galaxy is 100000 light years across but the galaxy is roughly 1,000 light-years thick. So, it’s very long but relatively thin so I’m thinking that the map could be more squishy and not like we see it on screen, perhaps.
I'm very interested in the individual states marked in yellow on the fringes of Klingon space. The Klingons have always tended to advance their boarders was by way of peaceful means; Eternal Peace for whomever gets in their way, that is. Anyone who can enforce a hard boarder with both the Empire and the Federation has to be very interesting.
I’d like a few series of Star Trek focusing on non-Starfleet factions and individuals.
Like the First Federation? If a single one of their gigantic ships (with an apparent crew of one!) could take the Enterprise-nil in tow with little effort, it could do the same to anyone else’s ships.
I’ve always hoped for another appearance by them *in canon* but no luck so far.
I believe those are just nebulae - various nebulae are marked on that map with different colours, but they just say the nebula names, not the names of any civilizations or empires.
Loved that quote, they extend their empire through peaceful mean...eternal peace...
Those are just nebula, not territories
OMG that is a question that gets stuck in my mind whenever I see a map of the Star Trek galaxy. This video is a godsend!
No, it's a Ricsend.
This is nothing special at all, simply think 3D instead of 2D.
This is a great video. There's been a need for a little clarification after a lot of the things that have happened in the prime timeline. Examples: Dominion ships crossing over Romulan territory to shoot KDF/Starfleet ships, the actual size of the federation, some of the named systems that you included in this video already, etc. I am always trying to keep a good map in my mind when I re-watch old episodes, and so many of the maps you find online contradict each other.
I'm also really interested in Starfleet's updated fleet post Dominion War. Is the Sovereign meant to be a direct successor to the Galaxy in terms of role? I know that's a muddled question, as Starfleet had to come to terms with the waning golden area of exploration and produce ships with far more advanced defensive capabilities. As such, the Sovereign can be seen a somewhat of a 'fast battleship,' but it also still contains all the science labs and sensors etc, that a deep space explorer would need. How does that compare to the Intrepid class, and was that ship updated in canon to a new variant? I know the Defiant, Akira, Steamrunner, and Norway were pure combat-focused, but there was the Luna and Nova. Is there a direct successor to the Oberth? I read somewhere that the Nova was short-range science, so is there anything really properly replacing the Oberth an an all-around science-focused vessel?
Ok, I've let my inner nerd out here for far too long. But I would love to see a video or segment of one talking about it, if there hasn't been one already. Cheers!
Bonus points for the citation of the cat from red dwarf.
It should be canon that you're doing these briefings for Starfleet training videos XD
I feel privileged, then,to be getting my hands on them as a Terran. Too much Intel never hurt anyone... that held onto it.
Adm. Mark Hale's Starfleet cadet primers
Ive always head canoned that, kinda like how in real life flat projections of a round earth are heavily distorted, the Star Trek maps are also experiencing heavy distortions, and that some of the territories shown are actually above or below other powers. It might also explain how, for example, many "Alpha Quadrant" species arent depicted as being in the Alpha Quadrant. Maybe they are, just a 2-D map with the Federation, Romulans, and Klingons all ontop of each other would be hard to read.
Fun fact: The Milky Way's average thickness in comparison to its total area is thinner than a sheet of notebook paper.
@@Unpainted_Huffhines Fun fact: Star Trek isnt real
The Terran Empire is assimilating more worlds!
All hail the Empire!
@@prof.badfellow9868 The Galactic Empire???…..lol just kidding
That part of the Map is in fact a different colour to Federation territory, it's just that Hoomin eyes aren't sensitive enough to discern that.
You know… Looking at that map just drives home how *nonsense* warp drive scaling is. Like, the Enterprise-D can be out there, exploring the frontier, and still somehow warp back to Earth in the space of, like, a few hours, in case of brain-hijacking parasites attempting a takeover or Wesley and his friends having a training accident. (In the latter case especially, there’s no way they would have delayed the inquiry for weeks or months for the Enterprise to make it. They would have just been told about the results after it was all over.) Kirk’s Enterprise could reach both the Galactic Barrier and the Great Barrier at the *center* of the galaxy. (Sure, the former would have to *completely* encase the galaxy, but Earth is nowhere near the galactic center. Unless Star Trek 5 is stricken from canon, I suppose…) Why was Voyager having so much trouble getting home? 😂
Because all star ships can travel at plot warp speed when they need to.
i mean, everything in Star Trek has a Narative Travel Time, even the Turbolifts, at least for the Galactic Barrier there is a good Head Canon Idea: they traveld up or down so not that hard for the Enterprise to do ... but only that they found a buoy from a ship that was launched 2 years after First Contact and with only able to travel at the speed of light it's quite ambitious project
but well, SciFi in general could be improved a lot if authors have a better sence of scale
Love for you to do a follow-up video on the Shackleton Expanse!
Also, the territories to the galactic south (read: rimward) of Sol are referred to in beta canon as the Taurus Reach.
AFAIK that area seems to only exist post-Khitomer. I believe that's relatively new territory settled after the Federation establishes good relations with the Klingons and that the Klingon Empire allows the Federation free and safe passage between Starbase 234 and Archer.
Love the stellar cartography editions!!
Random Red Dwarf reference!
Starfleet's territorial policy can be summed up as "Space is full of really cool stuff that we want to see. We keep going in a given direction until we run into someone who punches us in the face for looking at 'their' stuff"
3:08 random cat sighting!
It’s Space Alaska, obviously
i tend to assume that a lot of weirdness in "why is the federation that shape" or "why is the federation out there?" can be explained by the fact that the federation grows mainly by absorbing other polities in as new members. so that bit on the other side of the romulans? the territory of species/star-nations found by a starfleet ship mapping along the borders of romulan space, which decided to join the UFP for the socioeconomic and military advantages that brings.
Don't forget that Terra Lysium is somewhere DEEP in the Beta Quadrant (well beyond the Shackleton Expanse), and somewhere out there lie the Fendomar (Janeway mentions them in Endgame).
I always love this part of federation space and just thought it was a side Branche of of the Federation. I like having more little stories from afar.
2 01..... "The Devron System, Will. We have to go to the Devron System." I don't know why this map made me think of that episode, but it did.
Im all in favor of as many of these map videos as possible, sir!
Drives me crazy we don’t see any of the conquered aliens in the Romulan, Klingon and Cardassia empires.
3:30 For pre warp politics, I will once again point to the North Sentinel Islands.
India claims the whole island chain as their own territory and controls access. If you want to go there, you have to ask them.
The inhabitants are pre-metallurgy and murderously isolationist. So they don't do diplomacy or seafaring. And they definitely do not consider themselves Indians or take part in the Indian government.
It is about as close to a "pre-warp" case as we can get on earth.
I was excited when I saw this video and it’s a great video but one minor thing, in season 1 episode 5 of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds the R’ongovian Protectorate who are a species who live between the Romulan and Klingon empires was seeking to ally themselves with whoever could empathise with them, as it happened they allied themselves with the Federation to the point of raising the UFP flag on their Solar Sail ship, I’m not sure if they joined the federation but it might be that when the map was created in the 24th century that the R’ongovians had no alliance with the UFP and the space between the empires was not blue, denoting federation territory.
Fun tidbit about Seven Of Nine in Star Trek Fleet Command, one of her perks is an omage to Star Wars' This is where the fun begins. Of course the perk doesn't say that verbatim but that's what it heavily alludes to
Could you do a video about this "Diminutive but powerful" first Federation? Never heard of it before and i'm interested!
TOS, the corbanite maneuver. Great episode, with a special guest appearance
they are from TOS - The Corbomite Maneuver
i would guess they're some old Power that retreatet again from the Galaxy, like the Vorlons and others from Babylon 5
I like to imagine that the "Alpha/Beta" quadrant naming confusion comes down to a translation issue between some of the major powers of the area.
Maybe the Vulcan alphabet is similar enough to the Human alphabet that they have an 'a' and a 'b' sound - but their alphabet has those letters in the opposite order. So if you're referring to the "first" quadrant in the list, a human might call it the Alpha quadrant, whereas a Vulcan might call if the "Beta" quadrant. The Romulans probably orchestrated this confusion in the first place by editing some well-place communiques in the early days of the Federation.
And then you get the Klingons chiming into argue that the real delineation is between "subjugated space" and "yet-to-be-conquered space", and *of course* they're going to claim that their space covers most of (what they call) "Alpha space"...
Would be really nice to see someone try to create a 3D map of Star Trek's claimed space.
Love this one, exploration of the further reaches of the galaxy is great.
Keep in mind most of space is... well, empty space, or star systems without much of interest in them. So I generally figure various powers just claim individual systems, not big painted swaths on a map like this. You can draw in a map like this if you want as an overall approximation, but especially on the 'borders' I imagine you'd find plenty of systems that belong to the other side, all mixed and blended together. It's not like on Earth where you have clear geographical boundaries between countries.
I don’t remember the name of the novel but one of the destiny verse books mentioned that the failure to use the starbase at farpoint because it was a space dwelling life form, meant that federation attempts at exploration in the beta quadrant were stalled and with the return of the Romulans, the USS enterprise was pulled away from it mission of exploration to help defend the frontiers.
I also think that the outer part of the Federation‘s presence in the beta quadrant is limited by the end of the Orion arm of the Galaxy. There may well be a large gap between galactic arms like the void in Voyager s5e1.
It would have made so much more sense for Sol, Vulcan, Andoria, Romulus, and Qo'nos to be in the Alpha Quandrant, then going clockwise around the galaxy would be the Beta (Cardiassia, Bajor, etc), Gamma (where it is), and Delta (also where it is). That way you're going in alphabetical order for the Greek letters and lining things up with the descriptions of where the systems are as far as "Alpha Quadrant powers" are concerned.
Love this video. Yes please to more on the explored part of southern galactic space!
Nice video. Hope you feel better soon!😉👍✨
I always felt like the dividing line between the alpha and beta quadrants running down the centre of the federation was kinda dumb because the whole alpha/beta quadrant divide functionally never comes up in the show. It'd make far more sense if Sector 001 was on the 45 degree line of the alpha quadrant. That would make the Federation, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians all firmly Alpha Quadrant powers, which is how the shows treated them.
I really liked this one. I love maps in general.
I believe we are seeing an attempt to express a 3 dimensional map displayed in 2 dimensional view.
these kinds of maps certainly make the UFP look like grabby aliens.
We are grabby aliens. If Humans had FTL travel, we'd have claimed lots of territory.
In the 80s FASA game universe it was a unorganized triangle where piracy ruled, many skirmishes between UFP-Klingon/Romulans occured there... they never got to Cardassian or Borg stage (wish they didn't kill it as canon) but I think most maps now have it as UFP space... thanks for a great video.
I built several campaigns in The Triangle, based out of Starbase 10 for ST:RPG.
I 100% noticed this and do love maps
While on the map it seems isolated, it's a 2d map of 3d space, which could easily have other things there that wouldn't be seen
People always forget about the 3D nature of space.
FASA had this area called the Triangle, I belive. Perhaps the maps of Fasa are not so much not canon as just very old, and the areas between Klingon and romulan space were not as close together. Just a notion as a map can change, depending mainly on War and Politics.
When the gang down the road try to surround you, you don't react well, especially when the weirdo tries to get behind yer back, y'know him, Tomed...
Tommy? anyway caused a bit of an incident.
Was years ago. Anyway all this Hi Vi's these days, who needs streetlights. 😂
Ive been waiting for this answer for long time
I like that you said they can go up and over to get to a different location. There is only so much of claimed space.
I dig the outro music
A Federation enclave.
At this point in the canon timeline post-Picard, wouldn’t it be appropriate to differentiate the Borg as either the hostile Collective and the UFP aligned Cooperative under Queen Jurati?
I bet the rebel Borg (referenced in this video) allied with Jurati
Wonder what the maps look like between the 31st to 32nd centuries?
I feel like the trip out to veridian from earth should take a sizable % of the time it was to take voyager get home..
I think this whole area on this map is maybe about 2000 light years in diameter, maybe even less, im not sure, so for Voyager that distance is only a 2 year journey, considering they originally had decades to come back home, this area is just a small portion of both Alpha and Beta quadrant, the quadrants are so big, it would take years and definitely more than a decade for conventional warp drives to go across these distances
@@gate8475 Oh is it just a small part of the Alpha and beta? i see. It looks like its portraying the quadrants in full. Isn't Earth fairly far out on an arm in the milky way?
2 52...... It's funny you bring that up, traveling up and over. I don't think I've seen a space movie or show that allows ships to travel in all directions. Every ship seems to travel on a 2D plain, like they're still driving cars or sailing boats.
Might as well do an episode covering the entire map. I don't think anyone would say no to that lol.
Having Amargosa all the way out there is a little peculiar. The station itself had some TOS-style equipment, suggesting that it had been there a long time as of 2371
That's just the Federation Nihilus *ahem* I mean that awkward bit over there
This was sweet.
Yeah I'd honestly take the map with a ton of salt.
With how close Bajor is said to be to earth, soothing silly "small" like 50lys I can only really imagine the federation as a blobby sphere.
And for the alpha/beta thing, I don't agree with Sol being the dividing line, but the mid line, with all the known powers being tiny and concentrated in an area the relative size of a pin point to the size of the galaxy.
Please get some rest Rick..Maybe some chicken noodle soup?
With territory on the far side of the Klingon and Romulan Empires, they probably have a negotiated corridor for trade and for Starfleet to post ships and stations in those areas. Or vessels passing through either government's territory may be granted limited diplomatic immunity for safe passage purposes.
As for exploration, I can well imagine a Klingon ship happening on some anomaly, and the science officer on board simply recommends they call up the Federation for better analysis.
TOS was literally the exploration of claimed territory
Basically its the wild west of Star Trek
Nothing says territory needs to be connected.
Picard and Prodigy hints that the Telaxus asteroid that Neelex settled on became a Federation "world", despite being at the other side of the galaxy and only in comms contact.
It's also possible Klingons gave them some of these worlds or a corridor to travel through their territory after making peace in order to continue exploring, in exchange for any knowledge learned.
You left out the speculation that system J-25 and the Federation and Romulan colonies scooped up by the Borg were on the far side of the Romulan Star Empire in that “isolated” blue area. Several Star Trek maps even place J-25 out there.
4:24 i will now use this frame to shamelessly advertise "the Shackleton disaster" and related animations.
no seriously, watch it.
3:26 "each member maintains their sovereignty" *shows Sovereign class starship* Lol
i know it's only Beta Canon, but do you have the Star Trek Adventure Shackleton Expanse Campaign Guide? Would also be a Fun Video
Ah yes the bountiful ancestral hunting grounds of the Excelsior Class.
Just play Master of Orion and it'll make perfect sense!
It would be a interesting plotline in a future Star Trek television series or feature film if this area seceded from the Federation for a variety of reasons and how the Federation, a voluntary union of planets, dealt with it. Accept the secession of a disconnected territory or invade it.
Good video Ric. At the risk of sounding like a huge nerd shouldn't what you call South be Rim ward and North be Core ward. Like wise West would be Spin ward and East would be Aft ward or Trailing. North would actually be toward the "camera" looking down on the galaxy and south would be below the galaxy?
Question...Have Romulans been to Earth? I know there was the Romulan operative from Data's Day. And I think they mentioned one in ST:Picard. But, have Romulan en masse been to Earth? Any Romulan ships ever been in orbit of Earth?
where did you found the map you mostly use in this video?
I always thought that after the Dominion War federation and Klingon would have more solid alliance and trade more and explore and share notes😅
Would that area have skipped by Red Squad during their "training cruise" mentioned in 'Valiant'?
You just know The United Federation of Planets is going to take over the entire Milkyway eventually.
Red Dwarf meme yay!
IS there anywhere a 3d map of the Star Trek galaxy with all powers and teritories and all, possibly superimposed on the milky way image..?
Two dimensional territorial maps are problematic when the disk of the galaxy is 3,000 light years thick out here, plus the halo above and below. A territory shown as 2,000 light years across wouldn't control all space from top to bottom of the disk and other powers could control that space. Smaller powers, say 200ly across, would be just a bubble.
What the Hell is The First Federation? Let’s get a video about that!!!
What happens when you plot 3D space on a 2d plane.
Encircling the Romulans obviously.
hya rick always good to watch these im always curious to see whats out there too, also have you watched the star Trek continues with Chris Doohan it is kinda fan made sequel mini season to th3e original series it has that classic look and a dash of modern too i really like it i know it is a fan madee series but man it really rocks, even a continued variant of Mirror Mirror named fairest of them all.
Are you going to be reviewing the fifth season of Lower Decks?
What's dumb about Star Trek galactic maps and designations is that all stars have their own orbital tract, and these will drift from each other.
What's the source for that map in the beginning? 0:24
mira el borde inferior
@@yelwinmoisesacostaduarte8915 Gracias :)
I really wish they did a better job to consider travel time in all of this world-building. Galaxy-class ships should have never returned to Earth, and encountering every single major power in such a big universe in one show should be unreasonable to show within a single season.
ROOT BEER FOR EVERYONE!!!
I am still convinced Section 31 is responsible for the destruction of Romulus and Remus by setting their home star to go super nova!! How else does the Romulan Empire not notice anything anonymous about the star!?!?!?!
I never understood the expansion strategy of the Federation.
This exclave territory is not well defendable.
Especially with neighbors like the romulans and klingons.
There are more safer directions for expansion. Towards the center of the galaxy or the outer regions. There are no big agressive empires there.
After the Eastern Bloob it is time to go - due South.
It is a but like the Starfighter League.
Earth is in the sphere of protection from the enemies
But not a part of the League
Where is Orion space? Is it within the Federation borders?
Star trek maps are always 2d where the actual galaxy is not. Do you know of any Cannon references that are 3d?