Dune is the Star Wars killer
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- Опубліковано 28 лют 2024
- It's not just that George Lucas ripped off Frank Herbert. But it is that too.
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Dune won't replace Star Wars or Star Trek because the Dune books quickly become unreadable. The books are increasingly weird, grim, and hopeless, and the books added by his son are even more incomprehensible. Paul is not a hero, he's just a man using whatever he can to avenge his father and take the throne. People say Leto II is the real hero, because he gives up his humanity to 'save' the human race (the Golden Path), but from what is never really explained.
This didn't kill Star Wars. Star Wars commit suicide.
Disney killed it.
@@MusicMissionary No they didn't. People keep forgetting Lucas made those horrible prequels. lmfao
@@Jimbo1221 point taken. I'm biased vs Disney in general
Even though the sequels were awful, Star Wars will keep going, Star Trek too. There's more than enough room for these and Dune.
Damn, I just came to comment it and someone beat me to it XD
Disney: "You didn’t kill Star Wars, I did.."
Sad but true and this is why business and art MUST be seperate or we are doomed again
True that. I hope Disney does not get their grubby hands on Dune, otherwise...well, we all know how Dr Who turned out , and Star Wars.
0:41 Paul is more like Anakin than Luke (hero turns to dark path, wife died birthing, twin child, the male would be the savior of the galaxy)
Yeah! More like Anakin if Anakin became The Emperor, if Anakin was politically astute.
Yes and no Herbert had his view,but he wrote the books also in such a way that the reader also has a point of view. But agree with u both and disagree. Great comments.
I've been calling it The Life of Anakin
He didn't turn to the dark path...he was trapped.....( Couldn't control the Fremen Crusade)
Luke was originally meant to kill the emperor and become the new emperor at the end of Episode 6 which would have been titled “Revenge of the Jedi”
There is an old saying, "If you steal from at least three different source, it is original!"
Palworld agrees
I must not Dune.
Dune is the Star Wars-killer.
Dune is the New Franchise that brings total profit.
I will face my Dune.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the Dune has gone there will be nothing. Only the Box Office will remain.
Very good
They must not Woke.
Woke is the box office killer.
Bless the Maker and his Movie.
@@wahn10 Bless the coming and going of him. May Deni's passage cleanse the hollywood. May he keep the hollywood for his viewers.
We're quickly becoming Dune fanatics.
Actually Dune is going to save Star Wars. Anytime film or show from a genre (LIKE SCI FI) is good, it affects everyone else. Maybe Dune will be a kick in the ass for Disney execs to do better.
one can only hope, but still it's clear DIsney is incompetent.
Maybe it'll save Star Wars by changing how the movies are made going forward. People are looking for quality and thoughtful content instead of simply CGI overload and checking boxes.
Nothing can save star wars now. But be grateful Dune gave it life
put a chick in it and make her gay.
Exactly my idea. Dune two pretty much kicked the ass of nearly every movie disney star wars has produced(rogue one is still good). They need this kick in the pants to get their act together and actually start producing good movies instead of subversive garbage or incomprehensible garbage. I can only hope the higher ups at disney realize that they need to get it together and actually make something worth watching.
Paul becomes the villain when he utters "Send them to Paradise" to Stilgar. He delivers it with a sadness in acknowledgement that his Jihad is starting, as he foresaw, and with an understanding that billions will die.
if he didn't pick the "narrow path" he chose after seeing all the future versions, i am guessing humanity or the galaxy would cease to exist. i am thinking he chose the only path. as bad as it maybe be, it was the only path for the greater good. either it all ends or billions dies. not a hard choice but a sad one to execute.
@@BURPEEyogauncleGood insight.
without it, there wouldn't be leto II perhaps humanity will be gone @@BURPEEyogauncle
@@BURPEEyogauncle
Wait, so what was gonna happen to the galaxy if he didn't go forth to war?
@@thalmoragent9344if we are to follow the story as told in the movie (not the book) there will be even more death across the galaxy and maybe end of humanity. paul chose the "best" path as he sees it. kinda like how dr strange saw all future permutations of how to beat thanos and said only one is good and still iron man dies. but apparantly the book paints a different picture.
Don’t forget spice, and spice smuggling
I think people need to read the books. The true litmus test of the fans will be when they make Dune Messiah into a movie. That’s where Herbert’s point begins. No doubt Star Wars borrowed a lot from Dune, but all movies do that. The Paul/Luke comparison is not accurate. Paul is more like Anakin. Alia is not similar to Leia, as you’ll see in Children of Dune if they make it. Star Wars is more rudimentary that they maintain a good guy/bad guy scenario. Dune blurs those lines and shows everyone as having tendencies towards being bad. These don’t come around until Messiah.
keep lying to urself lmao
@@RED-my9hl say whatever you want. The second book deconstructs the first story and the actual idea of having heroes in the first place. Dune Messiah is like The Matrix Reloaded of the series. Everything gets turned upside down.
Messiah is going to mess up anyone who only watched the movies.
@@mainstreetsaint36 my point exactly.
Yes, this exactly, the real message begins there. Vellenueve set it up with that line "tell them a Messiah is coming and they will wait a thousand years." How people react to a physically blinded Paul, or how Villenueve shows the Jihad and disillusioned Fedaykin will be interesting.
That which is already dead cannot die.
Bro using a cringe af GoT reference💀
That is not dead which can eternal lie, / And with strange aeons even death may die.
Disney proves that which was never alive (no talent) can not be resuscitated (no franchise).
“How can you kill that which has no life” - Eric Cartman
The scale of star wars was always illusory. What do we really know about the rebels or the empire? Nothing there is nothing to know cause it's really just a story about one man's journey.
That’s why I love Andor. It builds the world.
You really should watch Andor. :)
“There is nothing to know.” I think you are limiting Star Wars to the OT. Nothing wrong with being exclusively an OT fan, but that’s not all there is to SW.
Kinda feel the same way about dune 2. We haven't seen any of the other factions. Barely saw the spacing guild.
@@WL1264Messiah should expand upon the Imperium beyond Arrakis though.
1. The new Dune movies are, by far, the best movies to exist in years. Not just science fiction movies, all movies.
2. Star Wars was murdered before Dune was in pre- production. Disney killed Star Wars.
3. Dune just exemplifies how far Star Wars has truly decayed into primordial soup by being so very superior to the travesty Star Wars has become.
Although Andor is good - going back to the source
Just wait till the Bene Gesserit TV show comes out. They're gonna totally Mandalorian Dune
George killed Star Wars. Disney at least gave us a couple bangers in Andor and Rogue One. The prequels and OT special editions were the beginning of the end for Star Wars
@@cobrala4554 I guess technically you're right. George sold to Disney.
Rogue One is a very dark movie. It's less science fantasy. I enjoyed it.
I enjoyed the Mandalorian and even found Solo passable.
Everything else is blah to tragedy.
@@SJFrzrbrn Rogue One and Andor are excellent. A genuine evolution.
The Mandalorian is old fashioned fun that eventually lost steam.
Even the Force Awakens is competent fun. Although completely derivative.
The other sequels are very flawed, even weak (especially since they seem to have been made like a game of consequences with no coherence between episodes), but still overall better than George's prequels and weird CGI retcons.
In retrospect, the Ewoks were a warning, and Disney has already made as much quality Star Wars as Lucas did, albeit at a lower hit rate.
They could have made a movie about people throwing rocks at a mud puddle and it would have been better than modern star wars
I’m sure Frank Herbert was also inspired by sci fi stories that came b4 him too. Everyone borrows/steals.
Name it. The whole concept is pretty damned original and impressive in scope. Heinlein? Nope. Who?
I cannot name anyone off the top of my head@@masonhancock5350 I'm just saying he had to be inspired by something. Possibly Metropolis. But yeah I don't have any definitive answers for ya.
@@masonhancock5350 Lawrence of Arabia!
@@masonhancock5350
Frank Herbert openly talked about being influenced by many authors/works including:
Asimovs The Foundation.
LeGuins Lefthand of Darkness.
@@mrzfunkLawrence of Arabia is not sci fi, but yes, Dune was inspired by that historical figure along with Muslim/Islam religion and culture.
You forgot Valerian and Laureline, the French sci-fi that led to the characters of Princess Leia and Han Solo's dynamic. Not the character themselves but how they interacted.
Is there any documentary evidence they were a source?
@@DamienWalter Yes, but I forgot the name of the video. Like your video it talks about the influences of Star Wars. All I remember it was made a couple of years ago; it's quite vague...sorry
The way Google is now makes it even harder to search for what I am looking for even what I've watched and commented on. I can't seem to find it at all/Google can't find the video.
@@DamienWalterread valerian.
read valerian or stop calling yourself a science fiction fan.
@@LukSter18998I award you the medal of "Master Gatekeeper".
Dune 2 is an absolute masterpiece. I couldn't believe how hard it actually went.
Its been a day now and still I can't think of anything else.
Just bought another ticket for coming Saturday❤
Imagine that certain UA-camrs are saying the movie is woke. I tried to defend the movie, but there's no reasoning with them.
They might very well be lost forever brother ;)
@@EchelonNL sadly
Just came home after watching it on Imax with my daughter and on our way home we looked at each other and said that we need to experience it at the theaters again.
@@M4rt1nX yep, I know the feeling
Both Gurney Halleck and Han Solo spent time as spice smugglers
To answer the title of this file: No. Dune is not the Star wars killer. Star Wars committed suicide. I should say assisted suicide. Lucas Arts, KK & a host of others slowly , agonizingly killed star wars. Dune, the new one, is not perfect. With that said, it is a monumental task to take those books into film. I have enjoyed both films, as of this posting, & look forward to the rest of the story. These 2 movies is the best to come out of Hollyweird in the past 5-10 years. Which is a very low bar to cross. Not to take away from Dune. So, INHO, no Dune is not the star wars killer. Just my 2 coppers.
Been reading both Dune and a series called The Gap Cycle, both made me really think less of star wars since those stories felt like "star wars if there were consequences for your actions" and I didn't know that that was what was missing until I read those books
I started the Gap series 30 years ago and stopped when I realised I hated every character and just wanted them all to die.
Same with Donaldson’s other series. I read 2000 pages despising the protagonist.
Shame as his writing is very good and he conjures up some amazing worlds and imagery.
@@jekw23 I had the same experience when I tried to read Donaldson's work. I couldn't finish the book because I disliked the characters so much.
@@jekw23 absolutely fair lol Gap is a hard sell without a doubt, and yeah most of the characters are complete pieces of shit i really only feel bad for... I think Morn is her name. But i do like how the story consistently re-frames itself into a much bigger more dire story.
@@jekw23 I liked the characters they grew from being repellant to being anti heroes. They seemed ordinary people who had terrible things happen to them . One of my favourite series. Read it twice.
@@JakkedDog Angus is a horrid mess, but you have to understand how he was so abused from infantcy. Evil begats evil. He is actually a sympathetic character. I also kinda liked the director that gave angus a chance at redemption, through coersion of course. Its a complex story that no one wears a white hat. In a novel series I don't mind that. For TV not so much. I have seen far too many shoes that aren't escapism and all characters are truly unlikeable.
At least for the gap series you get their inner monologue for a better understanding of their actions. Even if you don't agree with those actions, you can perhaps have empathy with why they may do that. We are all frail in some way and the book shows how under the wrong circumstances we can all fail. I truly love this series. Donaldson makes a note about it at the back of his book with regard to the extreme content and violence.. Thomas convenient chronicles where good, but i like some of his "short" stories. He has worked in a few different genre and many don't stray from their niche.
His writing is very good IMO. I like his prose even if the content has some people turned off.
Wonderful review. I work in large corporate entertainment, and it’s truly a special intersection of circumstances that brings together talented directors and actors with a budget such as this and not have it be bureaucrated into mush. Always worthy of celebration when one slips through!
I saw Dune II in IMAX at a special screening this past Sunday. It is magnificent. Tears just kept leaking out of my eyes - the sheer power coming off the screen was completely gripping. Timothy Chalamet was a force of nature.
Timmy's really been popping off on the silver screen ever since he crashed the Game Awards and gave away Elden Ring's award to Bill Clinton... Seem's that invigorated his passion for acting.
@@aidensnow5017 Not familiar with that event, but if that was the by product, we'll take it.
I saw it to and I claim that most of the tears were inspired by the score by Hans Zimmer. Without that score the movie would be just an ok film.
@@springsogourne For me, it was a combination of certain scenes and the score. I'll admit, music is a primary emotion invoker.
Seriously? I mean, it's a good movie (especially compared to Hollywood cr4p these days) but c'mon, why people have to ridiculously overhype everything...
The only part I was annoyed that Villeneuve cut out was Alia being born with all the powers and ancestral memories of the Bene Gesserit, due to having been in utero when Jessica drank the water of life. Among the most satisfying scenes in Lynch's version was this impish, blue-eyed little girl dominating the reverend mother, and her screaming "get out of my mind!" while Alia grins gleefully, knowing she could kill the old crone with a single thought. That would have been an even better scene in Villeneuve's hands, but instead Alia isn't even going to be born until Part 3. In Villeneuve's version it's Paul who silences the old witch, causing her to call him an "abomination". In the book and earlier movie, it's the terrifying little girl she calls an "abomination". But overall Villeneuve did a splendid job and both movies so far have been cinematic masterpieces. I just hope Part 3 won't be like the "difficult third album", failing to live up to the lofty expectations he's set up with Part 2. I also worry that the modern moviegoer won't like Paul's descent from revered messiah to tryanical antihero.
Dune 3 is in the works, he just pushed alia back a bit.
{SPOILER ENDING ALERT}
WARNED
WARNED
WARNED
The ending fight proves Paul was prescient all along. Watch Paul’s hand when the camera focuses on it during his explanation of the “narrow way through” to Jessica. He does that exact motion again to plant his dagger in Feyd, but it happens offscreen after he distracts Feyd by grabbing the Emperor’s blade. The Emperor’s blade was meant for Paul’s heart, but Paul only needed to slow it down to pull his own knife out of his own ribs, as an excuse to show some amount of pain. NOTE: at the last second he redirected it sharply to the right to only pierce his left shoulder.
Paul exploited the behaviors that were emboldened by the Atreides officer in Feyd’s birthday battle. He consciously re-enacted Feyd’s victory, knowing he wasn’t strong and fast enough to best the man otherwise. And in so doing, Paul proved himself the ultimate master of pain, strategy, and ultimately his power of mind.
Such ruthless conduct. I was surprised and thought it a vision at first, or a betrayal of the ending, until I realized what Paul’s hand did offscreen.
The 2 Dunes are better than the star wars movies in every way except in peddling cheap plastic figures of lame, childish characters...Lucas true genius is marketing kids toys to adults
Star Wars was for children and so were the toys, those children got older but never grew up and let go of their childhoods. That is not Lucas’ fault. SW wont be any good until people understand what it was, pulp fantasy. Films like The Black Swan (1942), The Adventures of Robin Hood, The Mark of Zorro, The Sinbad pictures etc set in a space fantasy. It wasn’t Shakesphere.
Still a huge fan of the originals, rogue one and the first season of mandalorian and andor, but dune is for adults and star wars (barring andor) is fkr children.
It's not really fair to compare them because dune is a psychedelic explkration of heros and messiahs. Star wars is pew pew laser swords
that’s what a dune fan would said
ROTS is better than any dune movie
Then perhaps the phrasing should be: Dune part 1 and 2 have given us that which we hoped Star Wars had given us but failed to do so.
@@DeathSurgeonOPBRRevenge of the Sith is a poorly written mess, like the other two prequels
The corporate Choam video was dead on. Well done!
George Lucas's brilliance was giving it the deep themes but also making it so entertaining for kids. This was on purpose and it is not easy to move a movie that is so good for both kids and adults. I think Dune is going to just be adults - the down side of being more serious and "authentic" is there really isn't any comic relief or as much sense of adventure as with Star Wars. Loved Dune 2, was so well made in every important aspect. I really liked the build up to the end of Part 2.
dune and star wars are totally different stories with different aims and arcs. saying that dune is a the star wars killer when dune gave birth to star wars is giving recreational outrage vibes.
I think he means the dune movie franchise has shown that movie franchises can still be good. In that sense the reverence for the new dune franchise has killed the frenzy over all the Star Wars content over the last decade.
Dune treads into the darkness of humanity that star wars casually walks past.
IMO the two are not really comparable. There are good and not so good movies in starwars universe as there are in Dune. However, Dune books are simply brilliant socioeconomic/cultural expositions.
L take
Dune is the OG. Star wars is a woke rubbish now
Star wars is just Dune for children.
In the late 90s I saw Tom Collins speak on teaching the meaning of modern art. 3 examples stuck. In one, gestural outlines of Jungian figures/archetypes were found to proliferate Jackson Pollock's drip paintings. The iconography tracked with his psychiatrists notes. He told his life's story in these paintings - they're decipherable as narratives, not just rhythmic explorations. Was wild to see symbols pop out of the patterns. I like to think Pollock's work resonates because that struggle to find/share our true selves is universal
I think it’s safe to say that dune is to Sci-fi what Lord of the rings is to fantasy.
Both genres existed in part before these series but both became the foundation for everything that came after. I’m a huge 40K fan, and yeah it’s clear that dune is the bedrock upon which 40K is built.
I hate Star Wars, but calling it a ripoff is like saying that every ‘hero’s journey’ story is an imitation of Greek myth. There are only so many ways to tell a story.
Disney is most definitely the Starwars killer.
Lucas also copied or was inspired by Tolkein, and that's okay. SWs is different enough so that it doesn't look like a direct copy of Dune. I personally love both.
Original Star Wars and Tolkien's LotR are both faithfully accurate reditions of the Hero's Journey as outlined by Joseph Campbell in his book The Hero With A Thousand Faces. Dune, on the other hand, was intended as a "deconstruction" of the Hero's Journey.
Other commonly known examples of the Hero's Journey include the Odyssey, the Kalevala, Gilgamesh, The Divine Comedy, Parzival, 2001, The Matrix, Avatar, Harry Potter, StarDust, and arguably the New Testament. Saying that Star Wars is inspired by LotR is like saying Parcival was inspired by the Odyssey. They are diifferent renditions of the same, archetypical topic.
It wasn't just that the main character had a special sister, the names Alia and Leia sound alike with just the first letter dropped.
This title is silly.
DUNE isnt...Catherine Kennedy and Disney are.
Remember in 2019-2021 when we thought Star Wars was entering a renaissance because of how good the first two seasons of the mandalorian was?
Looks like we were dead wrong. Just 3 short years later and the entire Star Wars franchise is like a zombie.
Mandy also looked like a gimmick show to me. Baby Yoda buying time to cover over the barren imagination ot Disney.
How about a world where you can enjoy Star Wars and Dune or Star Trek or all three? Or one in which you can enjoy both Marvel and DC or all five of the IP’s I’ve mentioned? Shocking, right? This tribalism way of thinking should stay in the domain of sports not genre entertainment. It’s the fans fighting amongst themselves which is stupidity at its best.
"IP"
This, this is exactly me and there are many nerds like that.
@@DamienWalter Thanks for the grammar correct. I’ll definitely remember not to pluralise IP in the future. Much appreciated.
@andrewgillon2763 he's not correcting your grammar, at least that's my take. He's noticing that you are viewing the themes and archetypes through a lens of IP. He's having a mythos conversation which is an origin story that is unfounded (not attributable) as to source. He is identifying Carl Jung as the progenitor of these themes. Classifying them in terms of IP is incongruous with the discussion. Also, Thanos did nothing wrong.
What about Princess of Mars? They both ‘ripped off’ this fantastic pulp.
Dune is great, but it's hard to make into a franchise because it gets so weird that you'd have to divert completely from the written story to get very far into the series and yet maintain any audience.
I have tickets for an IMAX showing today!
I've seen it, come back here to tell me your impressions.
my god did Austin Butler steal the show!first when he tests his new blade was pretty nasty, one can only guess what he would do to that Harkonnen that spoke against him and was brought to his room after he tasted the new blade too!!@@thebendu33
@@thebendu33 Dude.....DUUUUUUDDDEE. I could try to say more, but I'm already just babbling incoherently.
@@jakemeyer8188 hahaha. Welcome to the club 😉 I will go at least a second time, but with my daughter and friends. But I might end up going more than that.
I just saw part 2 on imax too! I can't believe I watched part one at home instead.
And Herbert borrowed from Asimov's Foundation. Paul and Hari Sheldon are likewise very similar.
I think that Dune 2 elevates the franchise to LOTR/Harry Potter levels of greatness, even exceeding them in just 2 movies. But everyone can GTFOOH with it killing Star Wars. I'm old enough to have been there for the original Star Wars and Dune in theaters. And I can say that even now they occupy FUNDAMENTALLY different spaces in Sci-Fi, like Star Trek, Battlestar, and game ones like Halo, and Mass Effect do. You could say Dune is Star Wars for grownups (even if it came first). But Georgie created/oversaw something so unique, packaged with so. Many. Cool. Things. that it just burns itself into your imagination: The lightsaber. The Force. The Jedi. The Sith. Bounty Hunters. Clone Troopers. Droids. the samurai/ninja influence, the western, The flippin' LIGHTSABER. Star Wars has RANGE. It can be as cheesy and cartoony and almost whimsical as you like. It can also have REAL gravitas (see Rogue One & Andor for proof). And it is made SPECIFICALLY for movies/visual media. I don't care the sequels suck (they're non-canon in my mind). I don't care that Disney is hit or miss with SW. I'm HAPPY I'm getting all this content that I can skip or consume as I see fit. All that said, I can't believe Denis pulled Dune off so thoroughly that I'm both excited and fearful of what comes next. I thought part one was exceptional. But part 2 is mind-flowingly, holy shit I can't believe I feel this way again good. Dune has become my next favorite franchise with deep lore that I can't help but to dive into. What a time to be alive INDEED.
Yes. Star Wars occupies the franchise space. Dune is the genuine article. Who is going to want the BigMac now that they have the steak?
@@DamienWalter I think that yes, Dune is fine dining, but for me Star Wars is a granny home-cooked meal. There is room for both.
I like how dynamic this video about books is; it's captivating from start to finish. Great job, Damien!
Andor is the only Star Wars worth watching, at a time I was excited to see Ahsoka Boba Fett Obi Wan and man was I let down by the Saturday morning cartoon feeling of it all, the fake out deaths, the incompetent villains, zero stakes, zero tension between characters as a whole. Andor is truly a rare gem despite Disney’s recent output
If you call Andor, you must call "Roque One" too......
A fascist technocracy? How on earth are the Harkonen fascist,
I swear people will just label anything perceived as evil as fascist.
“Yeaa that Stalin guy, he was fascist”
You weren't paying attention.
The theme i find missing in both part 1 and part 2 is the absolute centrality of the spice in the story: without it, no space travel, no mentats, no bene gesserit. The Space Guild is barely mentioned, and the link between spice and sandworms not even considered. Everybody is crazy about spice but they never say why and the reason it's found only on Arrakis never explained. And poor Thufir, forgotten!
The guild wasn't mentioned that often in the first book. They really flesh out in Messiah which is where I think Denis will display the entire power struggle with spice, Choam, and spacing guild aside Paul's struggles. But after all, these are complex themes that general audiences may struggle to understand lol
@@justinrampert9360 yes but some friends of mine who have not read the books didn't understood what was going on with the spice and why everybody wanted it so badly, I suppose many people asked the same question.
@@Bombrider666 Understandable. I for one, actually got into the novels after Part 1 because I had a load of questions about the universe and story of Dune haha. But I will say after rewatching part 1 a couple of times and carefully listening to the Dialogue, it's all there. I agree that it should have more emphasis which the character's don't exactly translate through the screen. At the end of the day this is Paul's story, and the spice is only a part of his complex arc. There may be deleted scenes to help further its importance, but we'll never know.
@@justinrampert9360What I enjoyed most about Villenueve is that he has kept the heart of Dune there for the avid reader, you do have to pay attention closely because it's cinema. I appreciated he didn't mash it into dialogue, and I hope he's saving it for the third act/movie.
@@redfro4992 Couldn't agree more. Its refreshing having to rewatch a film to get every little detail. I think marvel really screwed up a lot of mundane movie goers attention to detail. Im excited to see the colorful scenery in New Arakeen for Messiah!
Paul is a villain in the narrative.
Everyone is....
There really are no good or bad guys in Dune. There is power, which changes among the different houses and tribes. Paul is a savior for the Fremen and a disrupter of the establishment.
I thought it was rushed, lacked any of the interesting metaphysical elements of the books and was emotionally anticlimactic. It was more entertaining than the first one and it looks beautiful.
Your enthusiasm has made me want to check this out at the cinema despite being underwhelmed by D1. Would love to watch you discussing Zardoz and / or Boorman.
Dune Part 1 and 2 go hand in hand. 2 uplifts part 1 by a lot to tell the complete story. They should honestly be seen as just one super long movie with an intermission.
I would love to know your view after you see it.
If you didn't like the first the second won't change your mind. Its do great because its stayed true to itself and to the theme of the book.
p1 was simply the appetizer and setup for the meal. p2 is def worth experiencing on the big screen!
Does this mean that your list of three great science fiction films has officially grown to four?
Yes.
Holy Shit! I was wondering the same thing too! Still waiting for you to do a video essay on how you define "great" sci fi...
What are the other 3?
Spot on. I just discovered your channel. You brilliantly break apart both sagas and give us an excellent analysis of why Dune worked as opposed to most of modern SW and the books remain timeless. I discovered Dune in my teens. I started as a SW fan as a kid. My dad introduced me to the movies. That led me to other scifi and books. Only later did I venture into Dune and took a deepr dive into the ideas that inspired these two.
One of the key things you mentioned here is that Dune reads much like something that has already happened. I definitely felt that when I read the novels, especially Dune Messiah.
For me, the biggest difference - aside from all of the incredible film-making that is far beyond Disney's recent standards - is that Dune actually plays its story straight. When people are in mortal danger, they actually act like they're in danger instead of giving us "They fly now ?!"-quips as if they were Deadpool. Not every kind of moment deserves meta-commentary or a wink at the camera !
Dune and the John Carter of Mars series of books set the template that the adventure serials of the cinema age and later Star Wars followed. Makes sense. I thought the John carter film was OK to Good. It got botched though, Should have used the full name of the book, should have pitched it as the wellspring of all the space opera/science fiction films we loved. Now the book that more or less crystalised the form, it has a good adaptation. May it continue.
Thank you for this video. It truly does justice to Dune. When I discovered the elements that had been stolen, I felt a surge of frustration toward Star Wars, as the resemblance was unmistakable. This decade belongs to Dune, and I believe humanity is now prepared for narratives that are richer, deeper, and more complex, transcending the traditional dichotomy of white and black characters.
It's the story of Super Mario conquering the Mushroom kingdom.
As someone who saw the first Star Wars on release, movie-wise there is no comparison. Star Wars was a game changer. I remember going to the theater and being shocked at the lines. People saw it multiple times. I saw it four times myself and I wasn't even that hard core. This was unheard of at that time. Personally I think Dune (the movie) is way overrated, although I did like the book. the editing is sub-par and the story has been massively changed from the source material. However even if you think it's the best thing since sliced bread, it won't have anything like the impact of Star Wars. And as for Star Wars, it killed itself years ago.
At last, someone truly understands the deeper meaning of Star Wars: Sell more toys.
Jokes aside, Star Wars has one genius behind it: John Williams (yes, yes, I know he copied Stravinsky and Holz, but he did it only as a great composer can).
Thumbs up for the stealth jab at Alien3 at the end of the video. Also, I've been studying Jung for decades now. Although I'm no closer to understanding what he was tapped into, he's always in mind when I create stories.
There’s a difference between “ripping off” and “being inspired by”.
I very much wish people would appreciate the short form S.F. more, like some of the great short stories that 'Love & Death and Robots' set into pictures. Being an avid S.F. reader for ober 40 years now, I noticed that fans who only read books with at least 600 pages that are part of a series tend to often lack any refined taste and think 'more of the same is always better'. This very rarely proofs to be true in the end...
Beautiful essay! I'm impressed with your rate of work and hope you can maintain it. After all, the content must flow...
This is such an excellent video and fully explore it's premise. Star Wars is informed by many things with Dune being a major one, however I wish there were more people mentioning Star Wars' biggest influence being Jack Kirby's "Fourth World" books. It's quite obvious George read the first two Dune books in his youth, but he definitely read "New Gods" and "Miracle Man" just as much, if not more so.
Lucas used elements that were present in Dune but the stories are ideologies apart. Star Wars is the Heroes Journey whilst Dune is a cautionary tale. The tropes are common to all Sci-fi, aliens, spaceships, galaxy spanning empires.
Wow, just found your page.
This is a brillant deconstruction.
Thank you.
One thing to add,
Dune would not have been written without Assimovs Foundation.
Or without Lawrence of Arabia (7 Pillars of Wisdom).
You don't really know Dune until you read all of it. There are a lot of books. I will say I enjoyed the movie on its own merits. Great acting, great drama, and I didn't get force fed tons of CGI. I compare it to Larence of Arabia. An epic you can watch more than once.
In a Screen Rant article, it’s mentioned that Anakin Skywalker shares similarities with Paul Atreides. This parallel extends to Padmé Amidala, who seems to draw inspiration from Chani of ‘Dune’. Notably, Chani is a character who gives birth to twins in the ‘Dune’ novel. Additionally, ‘Star Wars’ character Kylo Ren appears to be inspired by Feyd-Rautha from ‘Dune’
Best and most relevant dune 2 related video, should be seen by everybody interested in entertainment today.
This is an extremely smart review. God Bless you for actually having some understanding of Jung. Thank you for your work in this area. It's a sad commentary that Disney has come so far from it's phenomenal origins like Fantasia. I agree with what I think is your assessment, Denis is one of the best if not the best filmmaker of our time. The fact that he was chosen for and agreed to do Blade Runner 2049, is itself insane praise, as the director for this was trying to follow, equal and amplify what Ridley had done in Blade Runner, namely lightening in a bottle. Dune II is an amazing accomplishment. It's looking like Denis can pull this off at will.
Beware charismatic leaders i had a hard time not saying it loudly at the end of the movie in the movie theater
I love Dune and I have been waiting for these movies my whole life. But this is pretty harsh to Star Wars, man. It's kinda like Megadeth and Metallica. Megadeth might be more of the "genuine article" of heavy metal. But I wouldn't give a damn about Megadeth if I didn't fall in love with Metallica first.
I’ve always been a Star Wars fan. However, after seeing Dune 1 for the first time, and being unaware of the books, I turned to my wife and said “this is what the Star Wars sequels should have been like: dark, mysterious, and world building, while also focusing on the lore that came before”.
I absolutely HATE everything Disney has done with SW other than Rogue One and Mando seasons 1-2. All else is trash. I’ve also been a fan of the prequels (I was 8 when Menace came out). I’ve played many SW video games, have collectibles, and have read many books (Plagueis being among my favorite).
However, after seeing Dune part 2, I’ve done a deep dive into the lore and have started the Frank Herbert books. I’m blown away and it’s amazing. In hindsight, I can definitely see how George Lucas stole a lot (but not all) aspects from Dune. It’s disappointing really, as Dune is much better written and deserves to be on the big screen by passionate and devoted directors and actors. I still like Star Wars, and I’ve had many interesting conversations and thoughts with friends and family in regards to Star Wars in regards with philosophy, sociology, economics, spiritually, destiny/fate/prophecy, etc. But Dune I feel like has many more profound themes. As a historian and philosophy major, I’m intrigued to dive deeper into the can of worms (no pun intended) that Dune is.
Only thing that I really didn't like in Denis Villeneuve adaptation of Dune is the Lion King sound track. I keep expecting Simba to show up every time I hear that wailing sound.
I’m a big dune fan and a big Star Wars hater. I agree with what you said about Disney not being artists. With that being said, I’ve got to say it’s a miracle that Andor was made - the only piece of Star Wars media that I’ve ever actually enjoyed
Yes, love Andor.
As a young SW fan who is just getting into Dune, thr thing is Andor's showrunner isn't even a Star Wars fan, but even George Lucas liked the series, to the point he called Tony Gilroy to congratulate him, Gilroy felt like "being called by the President".
A Desert Mouse did not kill Star Wars, a Mickey Mouse did…
Star Wars took many ideas from Dune so this just seems fair.
that CHOAM commercial was AMAZING
That advertisement plug was shameful 😅
I like both Star Wars and Dune. As I read through the six Dune books, I picked out more and more that Lucas took from Dune.
SPOILER WARNING if you haven’t read past the first Dune book.
Honored Matres - Basically the Sith. They even have orange eyes.
Paul’s wife dies in childbirth like Padme. She even has twins. A boy and a girl. The girl’s name is Alia. Similar to Princess Leia.
Paul’s Jihad on the universe is the Clone Wars. Both lasting about 10 years.
I’ll stop there. Those are the main similarities I noticed that stick with me. I still like both. I grew up with Star Wars in the 80s. I’ve read just about all the books. The prequel books are my favorite. Especially the Republic Commando series by, Karen Traviss.
Ohh there's a great band name/musical/art/whatever project name hidden in this video.
Herbert talking about the "mindless animal from the deep" makes Sting's casting in the Lynch film make a lot more sense. Sting was writing about the same thing in the Jungian-named "Synchronicity".
Love your educational and thought provoking work.
But ultimately Paul IS a hero. He's altruistic, self-sacrificing and wants what is best for the people. That's why he doesn't choose the worm god form his son Leto chooses. Paul's son Leto is the true philosophical question mark behind "what is a hero?"
The next movie would be entertaining to see casual audience feelings in how Paul Atreides turns out. The first two movies have warnings about it, but I feel many would forget it. What his son Leto II must do that his father was too weak to carry out. The signs have been there all along.
The Fremen? Well. 😇
It was fun to see Lady Jessica's transformation after she drank and survived the Water of Life. She had access to the memories of her predecessors which changed her. She went full on Bene Gesserit than she had ever been shown before.
Dune doesn't have to be a Star Wars Killer. It has good source material to draw upon, the setting and story has already been made. The challenge is adapting it. Star Wars has been getting butchered since Disney bought the IP from George Lucas. Lucas had his faults, even in the glory days of the Original Trilogy releases. But Star Wars was being helmed by the single vision of George. Now it's a bunch of monkeys in Disney throwing poop all over the walls trying to see what sticks. I've been a Star Wars fan since I saw it in the early 1980s. But not anymore since Disney's been screwing the pooch.
Dune does not need that.
Star Wars is mythological story tellin...a very easy story, which holds its power in the simplicity...the time area it was in, it gave a massive eye and ear candy...as dune 2 does give us now...
hard to compare them...they do serve a different purpose and to stand on Lucas side: He didnt put a scifi bestseller on the screen, he created one. I think there are certain thinks that both movies do very good and lack elsewhere....i dont like it, that Paul is such a sterile guy...does he has friends...is it easy for him to leave his homeplanet, is he only the son of a ruler or also a kid, with his own aspirations and dreams?
I like how you're adding more visuals to your essays. Even the AI stuff is well thought out. Humans are extremely visual creatures and it will help your channel grow.
I want to be careful of hyperbole or recency bias but, I found this Dune movie to be the most photographic movie I have seen. There are so many incredible individual frames in Part 2.
Lucas borrowing heavily from Dune would explain why it seemed his inspiration went dry & why he sided with Bob Iger & not Pelz & why he looked blind to how destructive the Iger Kennedy woke combo was to star wars.
John Huston told all creatives to steal. Bloom told them to transform. The Multiverse of Entertainment can contain ALL archetypes/variations. After all, its Archetypes All The Way Down. (Emma warned Sigmund on her own but as Carl's voice.)
Good vid boss. One of those ones that seems to articulate something I've felt but couldn't really understand or parse for myself. I still fear for the future of dune post Denis V. Die a hero or live long enough etc. Anything successful enough gets milked eventually. I'm so happy he got to make Dune though. Bladerunner 2049 is straight up my favourite film but it's commercial flop made me worry he wouldn't be given big reins again.
Loved Dune 2. My biggest gripe would be casting Christopher Walken as the emperor. I found him out of step with the universe and distracting.
These are only stories and, yes, they are free to borrow from each other. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
"only stories"
Finally! Someone on youtube who went deeper. Archetypal reality dancing all around. And Dune is immersed in it!
If i remember correctly, Alan Moore said that Star Wars has set back the sci-fi genre by about 50 years. And i think that's very true. Anyway, great video. Subscribed.
The Disney Star Wars also stole the Gom Jabbar...
yes that is always the question
I didnt even know they where fighting
I hate to say that list actually sounds like most space opera sci-fi to me imo tbh
That's because Dune began it.
I dont think dune is the star wars killer because one it took 4 movies and a elevision show to make it what it is now alot of people grew up on star wars. Dune on the other hand is just now learning to walk.
Talent borrows, genius steals
I think the conclusion is that DUNE is the “Hero’s Journey Killer” more than anything. DUNE the novel came out well after Joseph Campbell’s post war classic in a time when many people realized this hero’s journey business was a crock. Dune essentially is a behind the scenes look at how a eugenically produced “chosen one” is marketed as a “messiah” to the people who’ve spent generations oppressed by the same group behind their “savior.”
However by the late 70’s - barely a decade later - people were looking up to Paul Atriedes as a role model, and DUNE inspired the most by-the-book Hero’s Journey in cinematic history. So Herbert went back to DUNE and released a book where his messiah, his Luke Skywalker - had won and turned into a giant Kafkaesque worm and was actually worse than the Emperor who would appear in Return of The Jedi.