When did court tv decide to euthanize their critical thinking? Experts - by definition - are people who know what they are talking about. Have you seen any?
@@tacham4533 the people they pick to even argue the case are weak 🙄 its like they pick a name outta the hat. That's my biggest grief! Kindergarten teacher vs a PhD.
@@ThePolishRifle lol come on. You can't believe this woman is really innocent? He was clearly breaking things off with her crazy self, and she offed him. You're telling me the police knew she was a loon before they framed her? 🤣
He’s not blowing it out of proportion you can literally tell from the tone of the text and the way that they are texting they were arguing John was barely responding to Karen and she kept calling and texting him trying to get his attention and this was a few hours before they met up at the bar
@@EmberRN So were the other Canton troopahs; they were also wasted. Higgins was wasted, maybe angry, and was losing control of the "so-called flirting."
I’m not buying any of this analysis. Clearly they were both having some issues and John was definitely having issues he was feeling like he couldn’t be the cool uncle because he had to be the disciplinarian. And it was really bothering him. As a result he was being mean to Karen. And she’s just wanting to know where they stand once and for all. And he’s being ambiguous.
The analysis makes no sense. The text messages and voicemails are clear evidence of her being innocent because it's obvious she was wanting him to call back because she didnt know he was dead. And she didnt know he was dead because she didnt kill him,
Well said. A woman with good intuition. John didn’t want to “bite the hand that fed him”. Karen could bank roll his lifestyle and care for the kids. “babysitter with benefits”
Totally disagree with these ‘experts’. Those text messages did NOT demonstrate any serious problems in the relationship- on their own. Look at most coupled text history and you will find similar in times of conflict. The messages of much greater concern and interest in this case are the texts sent from Trooper Proctor and his buddies, superiors and colleagues. They are damming evidence.
Oh no I just started to listen to this and reading comments. I don’t know why CourtTv and law and crime think they have to find the useless people to communicate on their channels.
I had a friend who was sort of toxic with one of her boyfriends. Back in the day, there were no cell phones, and she would still call his home several times. I disliked that behavior so much that I left it at that if someone ghosted me. I was never one to call and or beg. Absolutely not. She would drink quite a bit but never killed anyone. So all these texts just tell me that their relationship was coming to an end but did not kill him.
Dr Carol yeah. I feel sorry for any couples seeing her. Just goes on a hunch and concludes and then speaks from that perspective. She is a disgrace. But yeah Karen and John also probably drank too much
If not a cover up, it is one of the worse police work ever seen. The unprofessional attitude , very poor detective work is a huge embarrassment . Mass state troopers should be hugely embarrassed . Trooper Proctor especially is maturity level is frightening. It really appears, that he set out to coverup any issues stemming from the Alberts and make sure the blame points to Karen Read. Very scary for the public to see how unprofessional our police force is.
She lied so much. I agree she has some sort of personality disorder. If you watch her interview, not only her body language speaks volumes but just going by statement analysis. She seems guilty!
As a psychotherapist working with couples, it is possible Karen has what’s called Anxious Attachment. Doesn’t mean she hit him, but all her texts say to me is that she has this anxious attachment style, and he possibly avoidant attachment style. If you want to learn more, the booked Attached is really good at explaining these attachment styles.
Yeah. And I think she was attached to the kids, too. It’s not just breaking up with John, it breaking up with the kids. Which means the break up takes longer to actually happen for good. Break ups are hard. People are forgetting that. Just because she didn’t want kids doesn’t mean this wasn’t breaking her heart. The texts showed me that John was a lousy boyfriend, not that she’s guilty of murder.
Exactly. I work with couples and intimate partner violence survivors as well. And those texts are not what I'd expect to see before such a drastic escalation. Compare and contrast Karen's texts with Ali Abulaban's messages to his victim for example... There appears to be some anxious attachment/distanced pursuer dynamics going on, but that doesn't usually lead to homicide IME.
And a person with anxious attachment’s biggest fear is abandonment. But they often communicate in ways to create breakup b/c it fits the subconscious narrative in their mind that “everyone leaves me”. So I think she was subconsciously creating the conditions for him to break it off. Which can be overwhelming to even a person with a secure attachment style. These texts in no way prove motive or intent. This is normal insecure attachment communication. She wanted nothing more than his full attention and commitment. Doesn’t prove murder. This is so common in couples communication.
Wow! I can't believe so many people believe the way she acted in Aruba, the text messages and ALL those phone calls are just normal bickering between couples? I'd run away fast from that ` normal' bickering. Also can't stand her eye rolling and smirks in the courtroom
When I heard her texts messages I felt empathy for her.. I have been in a relationship where I felt insecure, desperate, and full of anxiety. All of which I heard in her messages. I don’t see anything else in her messages and it definitely DOES NOT mean she hit him and left him for dead🙄🤦🏻♀️ Sometimes people, (couples), don’t get along.. That’s NORMAL!!!!!
Really? That is sad. Where is your empathy for John. KR text messages are invasive and controlling; unacceptable behavior. JO set boundaries. Her behavior is toxic. She is not a young woman. She is old enough to know when to stop.
I agree. It’s a narcissistic move from John. Men can behave in low ways. Gaslighting playing games. Etc. Manipulation evading etc. 💯 true. We get he’s dead now, but the facts are that toxic behavior did extend rom him. Cops have power they can behave despicably. This woman talking in the pink scarf is wrong. John may have stated that h wanted space, but she may have said the same thing in certain moments. As we can see w the text. It’s manipulative a power struggle on both sides. Just look closely, he wants a ride from her it’s like a carrot in a stick. He was a narcissist. RIP John, but facts are what they are. Each side, manipulation toxic controlling and an attempt to try to fix the relationship. Not to get a reaction but to get him to ask to come along. The man controlling manipulating her by keep8g her close. Reason why she started to try to get away and date elsewhere. She was in her right to do so, since he was being a narcissist gaslighter. No wonder she begun to doubt him. ONKY she knew what he was capable of. Sorry but both of them had an issue. He didn’t want out. He was hanging w her, he was manipulative. It’s terrible that he died, but he died die to his fake corrupt cop friends. Those kids are ungrateful. They can be honest and say things they both said and both their behavior, the kids just want to say what they’ve been manipulated to say. Sad situation.
@@Anna-ww4pv when I made this post I was not saying that I don’t have empathy for John O’Keefe. Obviously, he is the victim that passed away here, which is incredibly sad, and I really feel for his family. Me saying that, does not mean that I cannot express me having empathy for Karen Reed as well. I specifically connected to HER, as she is the female in this situation, and I’m a female as well. I do agree that she was saying things that were off putting and out of line, but so was he. Their relationship was extremely toxic! That will be all I say about this situation on this thread, being as I DO NOT feel that I need to defend or explain myself. Have a good night❤️
Oh please...I never feel sorry for Karen Read. She's got the MONEY...The RICH Daddy ... and the means. And its people like this one.. who get to walk free.
Is that why The Feds hired a reconstruction expert ? The Feds don’t hire for guilty people ?? Who are you relying on ? Trooper Paul who knows nothing about physics ,?
@@holly_kay5570"Mental Health professionals" are not ethically allowed to diagnose etc without spending time and meeting the requirements and standards of assessment with the actual person in question. You are confusing their personal opinions with professional analysis and assessment. Its not possible from reading texts that someone, or anyone, can accurately and professionally meet the standards of assessment. So your opinion that their "assessment is quite valid and accurate" simply means you agree with their personal opinion. Court tv misrepresented their opinions as expert opinions... An expert in a certain field can have an opinion that is not an expert opinion. There was not a professional assessment done here, just personal opinions on abstract subjective texts. Therefore not expert. Genuinely appreciate your opinion and send this message with respect 👍
@@delorusclaiborne3274 No diagnosis was given. However KRs behaviors were discussed and assessed by these experts in the context of the messages she sent that were disrespectful and manipulative.
Delorus, true, these opinions, like many of the youtube lawyers who apparently don’t have enough clients to be in Court or writing briefs, filing motions on their clients behalf are all just content for youtube. Some of the lawtubers have behaved despicably IMO and stretch, if not break, the Model Rules of Professional Conduct lawyers are bound by. It’s quite a tawdry circus. They seem completely unfazed by The gravity of a suffering family and children.
I came into this thinking she was guilty. But after watching the trial there's so much reasonable doubt there's no way she could be found guilty. Not to mention some of the things the judge has done. I have a lot of reasonable doubt and they still haven't showed us how he died. The reconstructionist trooper Paul was a major failure.
All those texts tell me is John was taking advantage of Karen’s generosity taking care of those kids. She didn’t kill him. His injuries were caused by that dog.
because she said so in those texts? She sounds so crazy! tell me if you have someone else? calling him constantly! why you said that? so what you apologized? what does she want to hear? its repetitive over and over and over! omg!
@@KirbyKirby-q3pLucky you. Never being stonewalled or gaslight by a boyfriend! Nice! Lemme tell you. It drives you nuts. Are you committing murder after? I never murdered anyone but my text history will tell a doozy of a messed up break up.
Had he not died, she probably would have left him. But he wanted her to pick him up and spend the weekend with him. She’s not so gross considering the mixed signals he was sending.
Karen could not have hit him based on Trooper Paul's account of this. His arm is a hinge and would have been shattered. In order for him to have gone 30 ft, the vehicle would have had to hit him in the chest, mass portion of his body. No broken arm or bones to the torso. I
I agree with you. The CW accident reconstruction "expert" would have the jury belive she hit his arm with her vehicle and he ended up 30 feet away. Gross incompetence.
She got her a$$ chewed for buying donuts for breakfast. And he got mad because she paid for the neices nails. How dare she? But the second John needed a ride, suddenly he was all "lovey dovey" again. I don't know who's more toxic? Lieberman or CoffinDiver. I love ya vinnie but your guest list is kinda sketchy as of late.
@Mine.photosYES!!! Totally!!! I mean God forbid we have anything bad to say about an officer that adopted orphaned children. I mean I do think he was a stand up guy. Obviously a stand up cop. But he was taking her for granted. Everybody is afraid to say that. Nobody would send angry texts to someone they just killed either. I've never seen such a farce in my life. Lally saying the dog bite lady (who let's a minute to 👏) was unqualified after Trooper Paul's testimony was incredulous. My jaw hit the floor when he said that.😂
@@loudMouse11 I agree he was probably taking advantage but she’s a grown woman! She couldn’t seem to take a hint… maybe a little obsessed!? What you allow in a relationship will continue!
Hence the divorce rate lol Doesn't mean she killed him. I've married for 24 years but our hardest years were when we were raising our kids. (About to have our 1st grandbaby. Hubby thinks we're broke now. Just wait😂😂 Hold my mom beer cuz grandma 2.0 gonna step in) but seriously I have 100% unequivocally not seen any proof Karen murdered him.
No, a female FIRST RESPONDER said those words and said that Karen Read said them. She is a childhood friend of one of the McCabe -Albert crime families
Dr. Lieberman is so off, IMHO. The texts later talk about him asking if she is goin and why she didn't ask him and his dad to help with plumbing. I disagree with her opinion.
What doesn't add up is the FACT that there are NO INJURIES consistent with JOK being hit by a car, he has a skull fracture at the back of his head, a small cut below an eyebrow and one on his nose, then those "scratches" or bite marks on ONE arm. Where are the rest of the injuries he would have suffered if he had been hit by a car....there are none, no broken bones, no bruising, no road rash, nothing below his head except his arm.... However being hit around in the face, falling backwards and smacking his head on a hard object would cause the small cuts to his face and the skull fracture, and a dog protecting its owner would attack and bite, also if JOK was fending off a dog that would certainly explain the fact that he has injuries like scratches or bite marks on only one arm as he would likely have raised that arm to protect himself....who knows the dog may have also been the one to cause the facial injury that caused JOK to fall backwards and fracture his skull. 38:34 the crime scene should have been secured until the snow had melted. No excuse.
After hours lying in the snow would there be DNA left after they cleared the snow off him? Also if his arm were hit by the backlight must be a hell of a big backlight on that vehicle....
@@lynettejoubert4291 yes there would be DNA, he was also allegedly holding a glass and the taillight was busted out. Both of those could lead to cuts on the arm
Karen is a very insecure person, very jealous and I really feel she has mental health issues. I do believe she killed him in a fit of jealous passion, we saw what she was like in Aruba. She is jealous of the attention he gives the children, she is a very jealous person, it is a very toxic relationship I agree with the counselors.
Absolutely no evidence that she killed him. His injuries, especially on his arm look like a dog attack. You can even google what a dog attack looks like. He didn’t have any injuries to his torso. How was he killed by a vehicle.
Slash, exactly what I’ve been saying the judge, jurors and prosecutors already have her as guilty, the judges is just trying to get any credible evidence to to put the final nail in
@@Babyd320 she acts as if she’s not on trial, all smiles, making faces throughout testimonies and acting arrogant!! So disrespectful to the court, jury and to the O’keef family!! She needs to step off her high horse!!
53 calls. Trying to establish a false alibi. She called so many times to make it seem she really didn’t know what happened to John. Her texts were consistent with her rage, drunk and desperate.
Her actions prove she hit him. I don't think she meant to kill him, just scare him or hurt him. Not thinking he was severely hurt & dying in the cold snow
Seems to me, if she knew she hit him but maybe wasn’t sure he was dead, so she is frantically trying to get him to reply. At the time she didn’t know he was dead. Otherwise, why drop him off at a party then tell him to get home quick.
I don't think it was planned, heat of the moment, pissed of, arguing, he just plucked the last nerve. She hit him, probably not intentionally. Drove off.
That’s what I think. I don’t think she knew that she hit him. I don’t know if she was blacked out drunk. But I find it odd that she woke up in a panic and essentially went straight to the place where she would’ve hit them. Why don’t you just call the Albertsons and say hey is John sleepover there? The fact that she went in a panic back to that spot tells me that in the back of her head, she either thought or knew she hit something. And now she was realizing it it was John.
She is guilty 100% she may not lose/ possibly a hung jury. Do believe her defense is doing a good job even though he is as seedy as F. She absolutely did it. Yes a motive, she didn’t plan it. She did hit him in a raging drunken jealous state, when driving off. She is a “whack job” . The knowledge of driving off: this is what makes her even more guilty. She was only 2 min away but yet calls him and says she was worried. It’s mind boggling/how many ppl think she is innocent?!1 JO never went into that house. As for that female whiteness they tried to bring on last min. She was following the case, she hates law enforcement, she felt she was bullied while she was working in law enforcement. She also hates men in general. So totally bias. The judge is bias yes because she should be, she know the truth but it’s not her choice. It’s the jury. Also if you saw her texts, you can tell she was manipulative & got him to go out with her. She is slimy just like her lawyer.
It's mind boggling how you think she is guilty without evidence proving it. Your comments about her are awful , you don't know her , you are worse than proctor
IMO, John was sick of constantly arguing, her constantly stalking and harassing him. KR is a Leach....She couldn't except he was done with her for quite a while now. KR thinks she is entitled. She is guilty of taking his life deliberately...
She definitely hit him. Whether it was done intenitionally or not is up for debate but the fact that she went back to the scene before she called Jenn and Kerry rather than calling 911 is very damming, had she gotten help for him, he could still be alive. She was the first one to see the body under a mound of snow that is very suspicious.
@@eleanoraquitaine2966 I think she wanted to spend some alone time with him and didnt want to go the party but he chose to go anyway without her and she lost it.
My money is a fight took place in the basement, otherwise there would be no re-homed dog, no reason for redone basement, no reason to get rid of phones and sim card, no reason to sell house, and no reason to sell Ford Edge..
@@theresafeeney2756 Just watching now..there appears a break..looked to me when Dr Russell said she got dog bites in Canton..what if there is no report on the woman, that is why they said Chole was rehomed..this caused the break by Lally??
I see no emotion from Karen, that her boyfriend is dead. If she didn't do it, wouldn't she be sad or upset to see the disturbing photos of John from the autopsy, etc.? I would be devastated! I do see her mad reactions, and her very piercing looks at witnesses. That doesn't look good to the jury.
A lot of people are saying this, but 1. The boyfriend has been dead over 2 years. 2. She's on trial for her life. (So, there must be many conflicting emotions.) 3. Defense attorney's usually advise to show neutral emotions because some people will read "emotion" as crocodile tears, others will read no emotion as "not caring," and one simply can't win with whatever emotion they do/don't show. 4. Remember only one person literally did something, anything to try to save his life (even though it was too late.)
@ karenberg4903 I agree! She has no trouble being smug or smirking at other’s trials but I see nothing warm or heartfelt from her ever! Two years isn’t that long in a grieving process when you really loved someone imo.
How do you know she doesn’t cry before court ? After court ? Did you see her on the dash cam ? I didn’t see any of the people from the house crying ? Btw no emotions allowed on court . She would get reprimanded from the judge. Duh
The conflict about the kids was about Karen spoiling them! That morning she got them Dunkin Donuts & he was upset!! They need to actually get more info on the case before giving their opinions!!
Vinnie is out of touch with drunk woman’s behavior. He keeps asking why was Karen doing all the things she was doing if she murdered him. Well she was drunk as a fish! Yes she called him 53 times and yes she called him after she hit him and told him she hated him! She kept calling because she knew what she did and she wasn’t sure if he was ok. That’s why she texted him about the kids being home alone, that would be the one thing she knew he would respond to. I don’t think she meant to kill him, but she did. Hopefully there will be lesser included charges like manslaughter. Just like I’m putting the pieces together the jury will too. Her lawyers are muddying the waters, but there are to many things for her to overcome IMO. She can try to malign law enforcement all she wants she’s guilty and she knows it!!
The problem is she went back to Fairview and didn’t call 911 when she realized what happened.. she left him there .. if she called an hour earlier he could have possibly recovered. It’s all very sad and unnecessary
These two do not know the case very well. Do either of them know that the FBI hired experts that will refute the this ax was caused by KRs Lexi’s? The accident has to be caused by the vehicle, and the injuries are not consistent. They a have already convicted her. These two are clueless about this case and I’m surprised you actually had them on Vinnie! Please bring people that have followed the case so that they know all the facts.😊
WTF are you all talking about ??? Seriously, she wasn’t just coming into their lives !!! She had been a significant part of all of their lives for 2 years and especially over COVID Inside for all that time !
Oh, please take the stand! It's not up to her defense. It is up to her! She knows she was angry at John, and she hit him, then left the scene! Who the heck asks, did I hit him? If you are innocent! Use your common sense, people!
Did you even watch the commonwealth expert saying how the “crash” happened?! It makes no sense and doesn’t follow laws of physics . John’s injures don’t line up with being hit by a car and “projected 30 feet” like the commonwealth alleges.
@pinklady5795. You may be 100 percent correct. However, if she indeed has 9 drinksc that 100 pound little thing was ANNIHILATED. I’m guessing she doesn’t know for sure what happened. Who knows.
@vincedidiana5781 I thought that too early on, but she should have felt something or heard the beeping when she backed up, wouldn't you think? I have never watched a more confusing trial! Haha!
I know, right!! if you think it’s normal to call somebody 53 times in one night and say I effing hate you. You’re a loser. And say that that’s a normal relationship??? not in my book
She is a pathological liar. She k owes what she did but is really convincing herself she is innocent. For F sake case should be over. She could care less how many lives she destroyed. Very selfish child like brat.
My opinion.....Karen hit him with her damn car and knew she was leaving him unconscious and highly inebriated. He didn't die immediately, so Karen kept calling to find out his condition. IF she was effing worried and panicked, she KNEW where she left him. She made no attempt to GO back or let the Albert's know John was most likely in the snow. She called no one who would know where he was !!!! She left him...he died. She killed him because he wanted her ass OUT of his and the kids lives!!!!!!
If i were on her jury id listen to everything. I do t know the case but looking at this mess i think she did it cause its more plausible than the other version of the story.
Really ? Why are the feds involved? Why did they not go In the house to check ? Why did the cops throw out their phones ? Why did the ME just testify that his injuries can be from a fight ?
He was gaslighting her and he was using her As a babysitter with benefits. He wanted to go out to the bar and party and have her stay home and managed the children his way.
Vinnie’s initial question is wrong, “Would KR want to kill JO?” The right question is, “Is KR capable of becoming so infuriated that she loses control?”
@@bryanmurphy3035 NO , it was ruled undetermined, she couldn't say if it was a vehicle/pedestrian accident , she then said his head injuries are not consistent with a fight , doesnt mean a fight didn't happen and he walked outside and slipped and hit his head. I know you are desperate, but don't exaggerate what was said
@@bryanmurphy3035 we have more medical examiners tomorrow, she never said where all the cuts came from , she basically spoke about his head injury , which still wasn't proven either way. Tomorrow's examiner may explain the cuts are consistent from a fight , because they aren't from a car hitting him
I think she is innocent! The recollection of evidence was contaminated, no investigation inside the house, etc. Where is the dog, why they give him away? 🤷🏽♀️
If the theory is that she killed him and then making a bunch of calls, can't the cell tower determine where those calls took place? Were those calls made within feet from his body?
I am going to trust what the experts have to say Thursday. Honestly when Proctor took the stand and Failed to do a thorough investigation for a fallen Boston officer I knew he was helping the Albert's.
Here is an idea. The cop that was killed because he got into a physical fight with one of the cops because he kept calling karen a B word and when he told him to stop bad mouthing his girlfriend that they are working it out the other cop continued and a fight happened. The other cops got involved being it looked like the one that is dead started it but being they were all drinking things got out of control. The dog gets in the fight while they are restraining him treating him like a criminal. They end up unaliving him and panic. They go threw his phone knowing he was having issues with his girlfriend and the fight was about the girlfriend so they figure set her up for what all of them just did. This is what the evidence shows me.
They were buried under snow, exactly the officers were working under awful conditions. I’m from MA. The snow storms are intense. They absolutely did NOT plant any evidence. It bugged me that people were making fun of how he spoke or looked. That’s goes to show you the mentality of the people that think she is innocent.
Those texts makes me feel that Karen really cares for JO and the kids and JO is just inappreciative of Karen. Those texts doesn’t mean killing someone ! I don’t buy what these 2 ladies are saying!
Yet you would believe that three different families were involved in a grand cover-up? WHAT is the motive? Have not heard why the Arnolds', McCabes, or Higgins would want Mr. O'Keefe dead.
I don't see a motive in the text messages. What I find upsetting about her, is her communicating with Brian Higgins behind John's back, when she was accusing him of flirting with another woman in Aruba. Was John aware that Karen was talking to other men?
I personally think it’s a cover up. I don’t think she did it. It sounds like he was leading her on a bit or not communicating. She was confused about the situation and hurt. But I still do not believe she did it or hurt him.
She said that to get a response from him! He said he was relying on her to get a ride home that night so she was trying to encourage a response! She wasn't ever actually in Mansfied.
Wait a minute it's definitely not up to the attorney's whether or not she testifies she's just relinquishing that and I understand that but let's not make the mistake of thinking she can't testify if she wants to. I think she just knows better
You never know… she comes across as she thinks she’s smarter/better than everyone else and we all remember Alex Murdaugh! I don’t think she’s stupid or narcissistic enough to take the stand but people can surprise you! It would be catastrophic!(imo)
@@JustLikeJulia9 agree. And she's vindictive IMO. I think she really wants to get up there but the lawyers know her angry side will probably become apparent. Although with all the support she seems to have behind her, maybe they will think she can take the stand and still appear likeable. I would love to see it!
I'm not sure what happened but to me it sounded like John was pulling away from Karen. The children were a source of frustration but the text messages are cold from John. It's a really tough case 😢
She killed him by accident or not it still happened bcuz she likes to be in control and it would hurt the girls he was caring for. Not sure why ppl say free her if it was still manslaughter and she wasn’t very nice. Even when she wasn’t drunk she felt treats towards family friends and other women. She’s a narcissist and hasn’t shed a tear during this trial when they talk about her boyfriend. Frozen and didn’t see him when she came back. Lastly.. should she have been drinking and driving. The police setting her up is ridiculous whether true or not why her? No one else ? Check the history of those officers but no matter what, the texts show her true colors.
Every couple argues but not everyone's partner ends up dead after they argue and that's the problem here.. They argued a lot and John turned up dead.!! The prisons are full of such people who have snapped in a moment of rage during an argument and especially while intoxicated. These texts are important because it shows that it was more likely than not that, once again they got into another argument that night, outside the house. It also shows that it was a pattern of behaviour in their relationship and a build up of contempt and resentment. When someone is intoxicated they are much more likely to snap a lash out and they have less control of their impulses and reactions. What's more likely to have happened...that she hit and killed John during an argument or That at the same time John was going through a bad relationship constantly arguing with Karen, a group of people killed him and then framed her ??.. the odds of it being the latter is ridiculously absurd. The explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is most likely correct.. That is Karen hit him, it's a extra and unnecessary assumption to say... "someone made it appear like she did it" rather than she actually did it.. which requires the far fewer assumptions, if any at all.
She backed up fast, a looonnnggg way. No way he wasn't her target. She meant to bump, not necessarily kill him. They already admitted it as an accident early on. Some " brilliant" blogger who thinks hes the smartest in the room, started this whole lie. Hopefully, the jurors are smarter.
Explain the evidence then , explain with 100% physics how the car hit him , to match his injuries , for his body to end up where it did , how the light pieces landed in the exact same position, the glass in the same position as the body , one shoe a distance away from his body. I'm afraid you will never ever explain that evidence , because none of it fits with him being hit by a car.
@@jtjones4081 the medical examiner is just there for an opinion, the scene where his body was will never ever match a car hitting him , that is physical evidence that physics shows is impossible. If he was hit by the car , this would have been an easy case for the prosecution but every turn and every expert has messed up. It's easier to find the truth than it is to hide a lie.
#CourtTV - What do YOU think?
Question... Was John wearing his ball cap when they found him?
I think there's lots of reasonable doubt. This shady unprofessional investigation team prevented justice for this victim and that's unacceptable.
@@maryannec55no they found it later
Not guilty
What I think is that you should get people on your show who have actually watched the whole trial. Honestly it's embarrassing to watch.
When did court tv decide to euthanize their critical thinking? Experts - by definition - are people who know what they are talking about. Have you seen any?
Thank you 👏 👏
It's not just this case either.
Sean McDonogh is live now. Going Through The Motions retired award winning federal agent if you don't know of him
I feel like the ppl they pick have to give very strong opinions even when it doesn’t make sense. also sounds like a tame argument to me.
@@tacham4533 the people they pick to even argue the case are weak 🙄 its like they pick a name outta the hat. That's my biggest grief! Kindergarten teacher vs a PhD.
“They’ve gone through everything but my sock drawer, but they won’t go through Brian Albert’s front door"!
- Karen Read
Ya, I’ve got a major issue w that plus the office txts + sale of house & dog
Why didn't she knock on Brian Albert's front door when she found her boyfriend unconscious in his front yard in the snow?
@@KTrue942
Right! Why instead she just screamed hysterical “I HIT HIM! I HIM HIM! I HIT HIM!”? And “ this is all my fault!”.
@@claudiafranco4888 Right. How did she even find him if he was covered in snow?
@@ThePolishRifle lol come on. You can't believe this woman is really innocent? He was clearly breaking things off with her crazy self, and she offed him. You're telling me the police knew she was a loon before they framed her? 🤣
I think you’re blowing these text messages out of proportion. Hours later They literally spent the whole nite together having a good time.
And killing a man
He’s not blowing it out of proportion you can literally tell from the tone of the text and the way that they are texting they were arguing John was barely responding to Karen and she kept calling and texting him trying to get his attention and this was a few hours before they met up at the bar
Litterally! I said the same thing. Just a regular argument between a couple. about where they’re at.
@minehliavakian9967 and that means she killed him because they were arguing?
EXACTLY , EVERY SINGLE WITNESS IN THE BAR THAT NIGHT SAID THEY WERE BOTH LOVEY DOVEY TO EACH OTHER 😅 THESE PPL AINT HAVE AN OUNCE OF COMMON SENSE .
Idk how they're getting all that from texts. Seems like normal couple bickering bull**** to me.
Yeah not motive for murder
@@Watchingvids01unless you're wasted, angry, controlling and out of your mind... as KR was.
@@EmberRNAccording to who?
@@EmberRN So were the other Canton troopahs; they were also wasted. Higgins was wasted, maybe angry, and was losing control of the "so-called flirting."
Right the blond even suggested she is Bp she is a prosecutor dream 🙀
Trooper Proctor had more damning texts than this.
True, he’s nasty, but he’s not the one on trial for murder 🫤
Trooper proctors is not on trial for murder
@@katrinat.3032Instead he botched the investigation into a police officer’s death. Real innocent looking to you, huh?
@@Mandy-ij3ssHe’s in law enforcement. Of course he can manipulate in order to evade accountability!
Seriously
The First Lady is so full of crap. Not every woman is desperate.
Exactly!!!! She made up her mind and think she did it. 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️what happened to innocent until proven guilty.
But Karen was that night. She called John 50 something times. 50!!!!! That’s like a full time job calling someone that many times.
Jealously only leads to one thing. Unhappy unhealthy relationship. I’ll sit back and watch this play out. Lawyers aren’t helping any.
That's right he led her on he used her to take up the slack with the kids.
@@Gem0674 yeah, a babysitter with benefits according to one witness…
Dr. Carol needs to go. She is beyond bias and has been completely wrong and off base in so many cases.
She’s an idiot
She sounds on top of it to me!
What? 😂
Absolutely beyond bias! She grouped all women into 1 quote; all women have 1 type of reaction to relationship conflict.
I though it was Barbara Cartland for a minute
I think I'll listen to the testimony of the experts hired by the FBI. All 3 with PhD.
They're bent as a nine bob note
Yea np way they would lie like all the police in this case
Phd 😂 in what
@@andywrollo2915but it’s impossible for the police to be “bent”…..🙄
@@estrella5935 yeah right 🤣
I’m not buying any of this analysis. Clearly they were both having some issues and John was definitely having issues he was feeling like he couldn’t be the cool uncle because he had to be the disciplinarian. And it was really bothering him. As a result he was being mean to Karen. And she’s just wanting to know where they stand once and for all. And he’s being ambiguous.
Exactly ……
Agree completely
The analysis makes no sense. The text messages and voicemails are clear evidence of her being innocent because it's obvious she was wanting him to call back because she didnt know he was dead. And she didnt know he was dead because she didnt kill him,
Well said. A woman with good intuition. John didn’t want to “bite the hand that fed him”. Karen could bank roll his lifestyle and care for the kids. “babysitter with benefits”
Everyone’s’ saying “poor Karen”. What about “poor John he’s dead”. 😢
And while she's accusing him of seeing other women she was flirting and texting other police officers 🙄
Totally disagree with these ‘experts’. Those text messages did NOT demonstrate any serious problems in the relationship- on their own. Look at most coupled text history and you will find similar in times of conflict. The messages of much greater concern and interest in this case are the texts sent from Trooper Proctor and his buddies, superiors and colleagues. They are damming evidence.
Oh no I just started to listen to this and reading comments. I don’t know why CourtTv and law and crime think they have to find the useless people to communicate on their channels.
Who is paying you?
Yes, but trooper proctor, and the others are witnesses, but they themselves are not on trial for murder
Are you kidding me? She called him over 50 times and one night. She said I effing hate you. I don’t know anybody who’s relationship is like that.
I had a friend who was sort of toxic with one of her boyfriends. Back in the day, there were no cell phones, and she would still call his home several times. I disliked that behavior so much that I left it at that if someone ghosted me. I was never one to call and or beg. Absolutely not. She would drink quite a bit but never killed anyone. So all these texts just tell me that their relationship was coming to an end but did not kill him.
If karen really wanted it to work, she wouldnt have kissed Higgins in Johns house. She has no moral character
I totally agree with you! And some of the faces she makes during court are inappropriate.
I do think they all drink too much.
Dr Carol yeah. I feel sorry for any couples seeing her. Just goes on a hunch and concludes and then speaks from that perspective. She is a disgrace.
But yeah Karen and John also probably drank too much
@@wandile. So did the rest of the Troopahs
Yes. Seems most of them were alcoholics. Alcohol played a massive roll in all of this. Who wasn't pissed ?
For adults, yes. For frat boys, no.
If not a cover up, it is one of the worse police work ever seen. The unprofessional attitude , very poor detective work is a huge embarrassment . Mass state troopers should be hugely embarrassed . Trooper Proctor especially is maturity level is frightening. It really appears, that he set out to coverup any issues stemming from the Alberts and make sure the blame points to Karen Read. Very scary for the public to see how unprofessional our police force is.
She lied so much. I agree she has some sort of personality disorder. If you watch her interview, not only her body language speaks volumes but just going by statement analysis. She seems guilty!
she also flirted with atf guy and trashed the kids. what a mess she is
As a psychotherapist working with couples, it is possible Karen has what’s called Anxious Attachment. Doesn’t mean she hit him, but all her texts say to me is that she has this anxious attachment style, and he possibly avoidant attachment style. If you want to learn more, the booked Attached is really good at explaining these attachment styles.
Yeah. And I think she was attached to the kids, too. It’s not just breaking up with John, it breaking up with the kids. Which means the break up takes longer to actually happen for good. Break ups are hard. People are forgetting that. Just because she didn’t want kids doesn’t mean this wasn’t breaking her heart. The texts showed me that John was a lousy boyfriend, not that she’s guilty of murder.
Exactly. I work with couples and intimate partner violence survivors as well. And those texts are not what I'd expect to see before such a drastic escalation.
Compare and contrast Karen's texts with Ali Abulaban's messages to his victim for example...
There appears to be some anxious attachment/distanced pursuer dynamics going on, but that doesn't usually lead to homicide IME.
And a person with anxious attachment’s biggest fear is abandonment. But they often communicate in ways to create breakup b/c it fits the subconscious narrative in their mind that “everyone leaves me”. So I think she was subconsciously creating the conditions for him to break it off. Which can be overwhelming to even a person with a secure attachment style. These texts in no way prove motive or intent. This is normal insecure attachment communication. She wanted nothing more than his full attention and commitment. Doesn’t prove murder. This is so common in couples communication.
Simply, she could not tolerate rejection. The officers and their families had no motive to kill John but she did.
@@Elsley12- You aren't paying attention or can't comprehend the lack of truth and fact to prove the changes
Her attitude and lack of any remorse....is unbelievable
Did you watch the dash cam ? No remorse ? Really ? That’s Jen McCabe . How about the inverted video ?
Wow! I can't believe so many people believe the way she acted in Aruba, the text messages and ALL those phone calls are just normal bickering between couples? I'd run away fast from that ` normal' bickering.
Also can't stand her eye rolling and smirks in the courtroom
When I heard her texts messages I felt empathy for her.. I have been in a relationship where I felt insecure, desperate, and full of anxiety. All of which I heard in her messages. I don’t see anything else in her messages and it definitely DOES NOT mean she hit him and left him for dead🙄🤦🏻♀️ Sometimes people, (couples), don’t get along.. That’s NORMAL!!!!!
Really? That is sad. Where is your empathy for John. KR text messages are invasive and controlling; unacceptable behavior. JO set boundaries. Her behavior is toxic. She is not a young woman. She is old enough to know when to stop.
I agree. It’s a narcissistic move from John. Men can behave in low ways. Gaslighting playing games. Etc. Manipulation evading etc. 💯 true. We get he’s dead now, but the facts are that toxic behavior did extend rom him. Cops have power they can behave despicably. This woman talking in the pink scarf is wrong. John may have stated that h wanted space, but she may have said the same thing in certain moments. As we can see w the text. It’s manipulative a power struggle on both sides. Just look closely, he wants a ride from her it’s like a carrot in a stick. He was a narcissist. RIP John, but facts are what they are. Each side, manipulation toxic controlling and an attempt to try to fix the relationship. Not to get a reaction but to get him to ask to come along. The man controlling manipulating her by keep8g her close. Reason why she started to try to get away and date elsewhere. She was in her right to do so, since he was being a narcissist gaslighter. No wonder she begun to doubt him. ONKY she knew what he was capable of. Sorry but both of them had an issue. He didn’t want out. He was hanging w her, he was manipulative. It’s terrible that he died, but he died die to his fake corrupt cop friends. Those kids are ungrateful. They can be honest and say things they both said and both their behavior, the kids just want to say what they’ve been manipulated to say. Sad situation.
@@Anna-ww4pv when I made this post I was not saying that I don’t have empathy for John O’Keefe. Obviously, he is the victim that passed away here, which is incredibly sad, and I really feel for his family. Me saying that, does not mean that I cannot express me having empathy for Karen Reed as well. I specifically connected to HER, as she is the female in this situation, and I’m a female as well. I do agree that she was saying things that were off putting and out of line, but so was he. Their relationship was extremely toxic!
That will be all I say about this situation on this thread, being as I DO NOT feel that I need to defend or explain myself. Have a good night❤️
Oh please...I never feel sorry for Karen Read. She's got the MONEY...The RICH Daddy ... and the means. And its people like this one.. who get to walk free.
She will never ever testify they would tear her apart she knows that her attorneys know that she gulity as sin
The fact that she says there is no case after 8 weeks and it’s just smoke and mirrors is WILD. She is not only guilty, but delusional.
Is that why The Feds hired a reconstruction expert ? The Feds don’t hire for guilty people ?? Who are you relying on ? Trooper Paul who knows nothing about physics ,?
She was pissed and did it. Maybe not intention but she thought she may have. It is the only thing that made sense. She was cheating with his buddy.
Agree- borderline personality disorder and alcohol abuse
He was pissed at her bc she SPOILED THE KIDS TO MUCH! Maybe tell these guests what the fight was about dude.
I dislike this type of psychobabble.
Mental Health professionals isn't psychobabble. Their assessment is quite valid and accurate.
@@holly_kay5570"Mental Health professionals" are not ethically allowed to diagnose etc without spending time and meeting the requirements and standards of assessment with the actual person in question. You are confusing their personal opinions with professional analysis and assessment. Its not possible from reading texts that someone, or anyone, can accurately and professionally meet the standards of assessment. So your opinion that their "assessment is quite valid and accurate" simply means you agree with their personal opinion. Court tv misrepresented their opinions as expert opinions... An expert in a certain field can have an opinion that is not an expert opinion. There was not a professional assessment done here, just personal opinions on abstract subjective texts. Therefore not expert. Genuinely appreciate your opinion and send this message with respect 👍
@@delorusclaiborne3274 No diagnosis was given. However KRs behaviors were discussed and assessed by these experts in the context of the messages she sent that were disrespectful and manipulative.
Delorus, true, these opinions, like many of the youtube lawyers who apparently don’t have enough clients to be in Court or writing briefs, filing motions on their clients behalf are all just content for youtube.
Some of the lawtubers have behaved despicably IMO and stretch, if not break, the Model Rules of Professional Conduct lawyers are bound by. It’s quite a tawdry circus. They seem completely unfazed by The gravity of a suffering family and children.
I came into this thinking she was guilty. But after watching the trial there's so much reasonable doubt there's no way she could be found guilty. Not to mention some of the things the judge has done. I have a lot of reasonable doubt and they still haven't showed us how he died. The reconstructionist trooper Paul was a major failure.
All those texts tell me is John was taking advantage of Karen’s generosity taking care of those kids. She didn’t kill him. His injuries were caused by that dog.
because she said so in those texts? She sounds so crazy! tell me if you have someone else? calling him constantly! why you said that? so what you apologized? what does she want to hear? its repetitive over and over and over! omg!
@@KirbyKirby-q3pLucky you. Never being stonewalled or gaslight by a boyfriend! Nice! Lemme tell you. It drives you nuts. Are you committing murder after? I never murdered anyone but my text history will tell a doozy of a messed up break up.
@@halfirish8056 people do crazy stuff when they are intoxicated.
What dog? You fell for that?
@@EmberRNThe Alberts dog a German shepherd which they got rid of 🤔
she looks guilty as hell in the background video of her
She’s gross this is disturbing she should have just left him alone
Had he not died, she probably would have left him. But he wanted her to pick him up and spend the weekend with him. She’s not so gross considering the mixed signals he was sending.
@@halfirish8056 although Karen’s behavior bothers me more, John should’ve never been depending on her for a ride.
I think Karen could get jealous at times but doesn’t make her guilty.
Karen could not have hit him based on Trooper Paul's account of this. His arm is a hinge and would have been shattered. In order for him to have gone 30 ft, the vehicle would have had to hit him in the chest, mass portion of his body. No broken arm or bones to the torso. I
Yeah people get caught up in the drama and ignore the physical evidence
I agree with you. The CW accident reconstruction "expert" would have the jury belive she hit his arm with her vehicle and he ended up 30 feet away. Gross incompetence.
She got her a$$ chewed for buying donuts for breakfast. And he got mad because she paid for the neices nails. How dare she? But the second John needed a ride, suddenly he was all "lovey dovey" again. I don't know who's more toxic? Lieberman or CoffinDiver. I love ya vinnie but your guest list is kinda sketchy as of late.
Yeah guest list is off
@Mine.photosYES!!! Totally!!! I mean God forbid we have anything bad to say about an officer that adopted orphaned children. I mean I do think he was a stand up guy. Obviously a stand up cop. But he was taking her for granted. Everybody is afraid to say that. Nobody would send angry texts to someone they just killed either. I've never seen such a farce in my life. Lally saying the dog bite lady (who let's a minute to 👏) was unqualified after Trooper Paul's testimony was incredulous. My jaw hit the floor when he said that.😂
@@loudMouse11 I agree he was probably taking advantage but she’s a grown woman! She couldn’t seem to take a hint… maybe a little obsessed!? What you allow in a relationship will continue!
Yeah. No arguments about that either.
Hence the divorce rate lol Doesn't mean she killed him. I've married for 24 years but our hardest years were when we were raising our kids. (About to have our 1st grandbaby. Hubby thinks we're broke now. Just wait😂😂 Hold my mom beer cuz grandma 2.0 gonna step in) but seriously I have 100% unequivocally not seen any proof Karen murdered him.
She did it she said she hit him to lots of people she saw going up to the house so how did she think she hit him she is so cocky about herself
Hopefully you never have something you've stated get twisted and people still run with it like its facts! 😒 That would Suck wouldn't it!!
I bet Jen put that in her head and she was asking did I hit him? I hit him?
No, a female FIRST RESPONDER said those words and said that Karen Read said them.
She is a childhood friend of one of the McCabe -Albert crime families
Dr. Lieberman is so off, IMHO. The texts later talk about him asking if she is goin and why she didn't ask him and his dad to help with plumbing. I disagree with her opinion.
She’s sounds like a pissed off wife to mee.. I would get mad too if my husband was partying and I was babysitting 🤷🏻♀️
Agreed.
She surely did it.
What doesn't add up is the FACT that there are NO INJURIES consistent with JOK being hit by a car, he has a skull fracture at the back of his head, a small cut below an eyebrow and one on his nose, then those "scratches" or bite marks on ONE arm. Where are the rest of the injuries he would have suffered if he had been hit by a car....there are none, no broken bones, no bruising, no road rash, nothing below his head except his arm....
However being hit around in the face, falling backwards and smacking his head on a hard object would cause the small cuts to his face and the skull fracture, and a dog protecting its owner would attack and bite, also if JOK was fending off a dog that would certainly explain the fact that he has injuries like scratches or bite marks on only one arm as he would likely have raised that arm to protect himself....who knows the dog may have also been the one to cause the facial injury that caused JOK to fall backwards and fracture his skull.
38:34 the crime scene should have been secured until the snow had melted. No excuse.
Those marks should have been swabbed as evidence
They were swabbed, and they tested negative for any k9 dna
After hours lying in the snow would there be DNA left after they cleared the snow off him? Also if his arm were hit by the backlight must be a hell of a big backlight on that vehicle....
@@lynettejoubert4291 yes there would be DNA, he was also allegedly holding a glass and the taillight was busted out. Both of those could lead to cuts on the arm
Now you’re diagnosing people
Some people put out a good facade but are at odds at home!
She didn't put a good face in Aruba but was happy at the bar.
Karen is a very insecure person, very jealous and I really feel she has mental health issues. I do believe she killed him in a fit of jealous passion, we saw what she was like in Aruba. She is jealous of the attention he gives the children, she is a very jealous person, it is a very toxic relationship I agree with the counselors.
Does not prove anything.
@@md8465 Just like Karen SAYING that John was killed in Arnolds' house does not mean it happened.
Absolutely no evidence that she killed him. His injuries, especially on his arm look like a dog attack. You can even google what a dog attack looks like. He didn’t have any injuries to his torso. How was he killed by a vehicle.
Maybe if you were treated like a babysitter with benefits you would to!!
I wouldn’t be so confident if I were Karen Reed because you really can’t predict what a jury will decide.
She hasn’ shown any remorse either
Slash, exactly what I’ve been saying the judge, jurors and prosecutors already have her as guilty, the judges is just trying to get any credible evidence to to put the final nail in
@@Babyd320 she acts as if she’s not on trial, all smiles, making faces throughout testimonies and acting arrogant!! So disrespectful to the court, jury and to the O’keef family!! She needs to step off her high horse!!
Exactly, look at Casey Anthony!
@@theresafeeney2756 EXACTLY!! No one ever expected that verdict, not even Casey Anthony herself and boom NOT GUILTY!! Shocking 😮
53 calls. Trying to establish a false alibi. She called so many times to make it seem she really didn’t know what happened to John. Her texts were consistent with her rage, drunk and desperate.
She was to drunk to think out some "alibi" come on...
Her actions prove she hit him. I don't think she meant to kill him, just scare him or hurt him. Not thinking he was severely hurt & dying in the cold snow
If I were her I wouldn’t speak ever
Oooo yes! Better not 😀. Especially with that face and obsessed personality
@@Aksel38 Wow you U.S guys are truly hateful over there🤦🏽♀️
Seems to me, if she knew she hit him but maybe wasn’t sure he was dead, so she is frantically trying to get him to reply. At the time she didn’t know he was dead. Otherwise, why drop him off at a party then tell him to get home quick.
Bingo!!!!
I don't think it was planned, heat of the moment, pissed of, arguing, he just plucked the last nerve. She hit him, probably not intentionally. Drove off.
That’s what I think. I don’t think she knew that she hit him. I don’t know if she was blacked out drunk. But I find it odd that she woke up in a panic and essentially went straight to the place where she would’ve hit them. Why don’t you just call the Albertsons and say hey is John sleepover there? The fact that she went in a panic back to that spot tells me that in the back of her head, she either thought or knew she hit something. And now she was realizing it it was John.
“killing the relationship” and hours later John’s isn’t alive any longer???
She seems like she just can't let go
She is guilty 100% she may not lose/ possibly a hung jury. Do believe her defense is doing a good job even though he is as seedy as F. She absolutely did it. Yes a motive, she didn’t plan it. She did hit him in a raging drunken jealous state, when driving off. She is a “whack job” . The knowledge of driving off: this is what makes her even more guilty. She was only 2 min away but yet calls him and says she was worried. It’s mind boggling/how many ppl think she is innocent?!1 JO never went into that house.
As for that female whiteness they tried to bring on last min. She was following the case, she hates law enforcement, she felt she was bullied while she was working in law enforcement. She also hates men in general. So totally bias. The judge is bias yes because she should be, she know the truth but it’s not her choice. It’s the jury. Also if you saw her texts, you can tell she was manipulative & got him to go out with her. She is slimy just like her lawyer.
It's mind boggling how you think she is guilty without evidence proving it.
Your comments about her are awful , you don't know her , you are worse than proctor
IMO, John was sick of constantly arguing, her constantly stalking and harassing him. KR is a Leach....She couldn't except he was done with her for quite a while now. KR thinks she is entitled. She is guilty of taking his life deliberately...
👏👏👏💯💯
But then he wanted her to pick him up and spend the weekend together? Sending mixed signals to her makes her entitled?
The. Why did he go in to ask her to join him at the bar?
@@deborahdixon863 all hearsay no evidence. The jurors agreed!
She definitely hit him. Whether it was done intenitionally or not is up for debate but the fact that she went back to the scene before she called Jenn and Kerry rather than calling 911 is very damming, had she gotten help for him, he could still be alive. She was the first one to see the body under a mound of snow that is very suspicious.
I agree.
@@eleanoraquitaine2966 I think she wanted to spend some alone time with him and didnt want to go the party but he chose to go anyway without her and she lost it.
Karen guilty.
I agree but I also think she was overcharged because the victim was a cop and all those other cops committed DUI that night. All of them.
Durrr me male gender man durrr
I think she’s guilty of vehicular man’s law and leaving the scene. I don’t think she planned on killing him.
And my comment is deleted!!
My money is a fight took place in the basement, otherwise there would be no re-homed dog, no reason for redone basement, no reason to get rid of phones and sim card, no reason to sell house, and no reason to sell Ford Edge..
Yup and he retired also!
@@theresafeeney2756 Just watching now..there appears a break..looked to me when Dr Russell said she got dog bites in Canton..what if there is no report on the woman, that is why they said Chole was rehomed..this caused the break by Lally??
I see no emotion from Karen, that her boyfriend is dead. If she didn't do it, wouldn't she be sad or upset to see the disturbing photos of John from the autopsy, etc.? I would be devastated! I do see her mad reactions, and her very piercing looks at witnesses. That doesn't look good to the jury.
A lot of people are saying this, but 1. The boyfriend has been dead over 2 years. 2. She's on trial for her life. (So, there must be many conflicting emotions.) 3. Defense attorney's usually advise to show neutral emotions because some people will read "emotion" as crocodile tears, others will read no emotion as "not caring," and one simply can't win with whatever emotion they do/don't show. 4. Remember only one person literally did something, anything to try to save his life (even though it was too late.)
@ karenberg4903 I agree! She has no trouble being smug or smirking at other’s trials but I see nothing warm or heartfelt from her ever! Two years isn’t that long in a grieving process when you really loved someone imo.
How do you know she doesn’t cry before court ? After court ? Did you see her on the dash cam ? I didn’t see any of the people from the house crying ? Btw no emotions allowed on court . She would get reprimanded from the judge. Duh
The conflict about the kids was about Karen spoiling them! That morning she got them Dunkin Donuts & he was upset!! They need to actually get more info on the case before giving their opinions!!
Vinnie is out of touch with drunk woman’s behavior. He keeps asking why was Karen doing all the things she was doing if she murdered him. Well she was drunk as a fish! Yes she called him 53 times and yes she called him after she hit him and told him she hated him! She kept calling because she knew what she did and she wasn’t sure if he was ok. That’s why she texted him about the kids being home alone, that would be the one thing she knew he would respond to. I don’t think she meant to kill him, but she did. Hopefully there will be lesser included charges like manslaughter. Just like I’m putting the pieces together the jury will too.
Her lawyers are muddying the waters, but there are to many things for her to overcome IMO. She can try to malign law enforcement all she wants she’s guilty and she knows it!!
I agree w/you. Lesser charge. But yeh..take some responsibility.
The problem is she went back to Fairview and didn’t call 911 when she realized what happened.. she left him there .. if she called an hour earlier he could have possibly recovered. It’s all very sad and unnecessary
That’s YOUR opinion.
@@SunnyDays70s Sure! Just like you telling me “that’s YOUR opinion”, that quote is your opinion! See how that works😂. We all have one🤪.
@@Thegirl1936 Exactly. You have yours and I have mine. Have a good day.
total narc to say that about the kids
No a narcissist Is JM who dragged her daughter into the situation. For Colin . Feds are watching they are allll going down
People were gossiping saying that he was using her as a babysitter so she probably heard about it and was trying to see if it was true.
He didn’t want to be a single parent so he kept stringing her along. Doesn’t point to murder.
These two do not know the case very well. Do either of them know that the FBI hired experts that will refute the this ax was caused by KRs Lexi’s? The accident has to be caused by the vehicle, and the injuries are not consistent. They a have already convicted her. These two are clueless about this case and I’m surprised you actually had them on Vinnie! Please bring people that have followed the case so that they know all the facts.😊
WTF are you all talking about ??? Seriously, she wasn’t just coming into their lives !!! She had been a significant part of all of their lives for 2 years and especially over COVID
Inside for all that time !
Right! And after killing John she disappeared from their lives in 15 minutes and NEVER talked to them again! 🥸
Guilty
Oh, please take the stand! It's not up to her defense. It is up to her! She knows she was angry at John, and she hit him, then left the scene! Who the heck asks, did I hit him? If you are innocent! Use your common sense, people!
Agree
Did you even watch the commonwealth expert saying how the “crash” happened?! It makes no sense and doesn’t follow laws of physics . John’s injures don’t line up with being hit by a car and “projected 30 feet” like the commonwealth alleges.
Well said
@pinklady5795. You may be 100 percent correct. However, if she indeed has 9 drinksc that 100 pound little thing was ANNIHILATED. I’m guessing she doesn’t know for sure what happened. Who knows.
@vincedidiana5781 I thought that too early on, but she should have felt something or heard the beeping when she backed up, wouldn't you think? I have never watched a more confusing trial! Haha!
Knew she was nuts. Pinning him against his children likes it’s a competition. Guilty af like I’ve said from jump
People commenting that’s it’s just normal relationship stuff must have been in some pretty toxic relationships.
Thank you! I am like... uuuumm. Might be time for some therapy or .. moving along. Thank you!
Right!! This is not normal.
It’s end of relationship talk.
Yup. I have been. But there are no murdered exes in my history.
I know, right!! if you think it’s normal to call somebody 53 times in one night and say I effing hate you. You’re a loser. And say that that’s a normal relationship??? not in my book
She is a pathological liar. She k owes what she did but is really convincing herself she is innocent. For F sake case should be over. She could care less how many lives she destroyed. Very selfish child like brat.
My opinion.....Karen hit him with her damn car and knew she was leaving him unconscious and highly inebriated. He didn't die immediately, so Karen kept calling to find out his condition. IF she was effing worried and panicked, she KNEW where she left him. She made no attempt to GO back or let the Albert's know John was most likely in the snow. She called no one who would know where he was !!!! She left him...he died. She killed him because he wanted her ass OUT of his and the kids lives!!!!!!
,,,exactly..(to: @suesingleton4927)
Please stop saying “his children” and “father.” With accuracy comes credibility.
I still think she is guilty. She is toxic without alcohol. Are these model cops? No, that doesn’t make everyone crooked but her.
If i were on her jury id listen to everything. I do t know the case but looking at this mess i think she did it cause its more plausible than the other version of the story.
Really ? Why are the feds involved? Why did they not go
In the house to check ? Why did the cops throw out their phones ? Why did the ME just testify that his injuries can be from a fight ?
@@LatinaLatina1011 im so interested in this one day ill follow this story this seems crazy
I think she ran into him, but was calling him so much hoping he would be ok, she was frightend
No way. His arm does not look like he was hit by a car. No way in he’ll would an arm react that way to being hit by a car moving so slowly.
Blackout drunk. She weighs 98 pounds. I’d be hammered if i had that many vodkas in that short of time and i weigh twice that.
That’s what I think too. I think she was subconsciously aware she hit him, even though she had no conscious awareness or memory b/c of the alcohol.
@@Dwntwnsuzibrwn why what’s the evidence he was hit by a car
@@Dwntwnsuzibrwn also - she called him many many many times before the accident so calling him after is consistent
He was gaslighting her and he was using her As a babysitter with benefits. He wanted to go out to the bar and party and have her stay home and managed the children his way.
She was also gaslighting Brian Higgins and she didn’t got murdered. But John did! 🤓
She’s been Guitly af!
Shes trying to take John away from kids. Shes jealous of the kids 😮
These women are making stuff up
Objection - speculation. You don’t know.
@@Cochita322agree 💯 well said.
Seems to me she got on really well with the kids and John was jealous of that relationship
Vinnie’s initial question is wrong, “Would KR want to kill JO?” The right question is, “Is KR capable of becoming so infuriated that she loses control?”
She was drunk and frustrated that he was not into her anymore , she intentionally hit him . She knew exactly where he was lying dead .
100% true, but I don’t think she intentionally hit him, but she definitely did.
I would love for an explanation as to how his body ended up where it did, because it wasn't from being hit by a car
@@steve10 it was from getting hit by a car. Ur welcome
@@bryanmurphy3035 NO , it was ruled undetermined, she couldn't say if it was a vehicle/pedestrian accident , she then said his head injuries are not consistent with a fight , doesnt mean a fight didn't happen and he walked outside and slipped and hit his head.
I know you are desperate, but don't exaggerate what was said
@@bryanmurphy3035 we have more medical examiners tomorrow, she never said where all the cuts came from , she basically spoke about his head injury , which still wasn't proven either way.
Tomorrow's examiner may explain the cuts are consistent from a fight , because they aren't from a car hitting him
I think she is innocent! The recollection of evidence was contaminated, no investigation inside the house, etc. Where is the dog, why they give him away? 🤷🏽♀️
I believe Karen is innocent
Some believe in Santa Claus. 🎄
Me too.
If the theory is that she killed him and then making a bunch of calls, can't the cell tower determine where those calls took place? Were those calls made within feet from his body?
I am going to trust what the experts have to say Thursday. Honestly when Proctor took the stand and Failed to do a thorough investigation for a fallen Boston officer I knew he was helping the Albert's.
Here is an idea. The cop that was killed because he got into a physical fight with one of the cops because he kept calling karen a B word and when he told him to stop bad mouthing his girlfriend that they are working it out the other cop continued and a fight happened. The other cops got involved being it looked like the one that is dead started it but being they were all drinking things got out of control. The dog gets in the fight while they are restraining him treating him like a criminal. They end up unaliving him and panic. They go threw his phone knowing he was having issues with his girlfriend and the fight was about the girlfriend so they figure set her up for what all of them just did. This is what the evidence shows me.
They were buried under snow, exactly the officers were working under awful conditions. I’m from MA. The snow storms are intense. They absolutely did NOT plant any evidence. It bugged me that people were making fun of how he spoke or looked. That’s goes to show you the mentality of the people that think she is innocent.
Exactly! Karen backed up on the dude! Knew from jump
Those texts makes me feel that Karen really cares for JO and the kids and JO is just inappreciative of Karen. Those texts doesn’t mean killing someone ! I don’t buy what these 2 ladies are saying!
Yet you would believe that three different families were involved in a grand cover-up? WHAT is the motive? Have not heard why the Arnolds', McCabes, or Higgins would want Mr. O'Keefe dead.
Trooper being a creepy cop doesn’t make Karen Read NG
Exactly.
Then why did he hug and kiss her at the bar if he wanted rid of her!
Because he had some drinks
And needed a ride
He couldn’t get rid of her.
He didn’t want to get rid of her. He needed her for kids and rides while drunk…
I don't see a motive in the text messages. What I find upsetting about her, is her communicating with Brian Higgins behind John's back, when she was accusing him of flirting with another woman in Aruba. Was John aware that Karen was talking to other men?
Honestly I don’t know but I don’t think John cared! Probably would’ve been glad to get her off his jock!
Jennifer, after reading these texts, it’s even more apparent her 2 week text fling with Higgins was solely to make Mr. O’Keefe jealous.
I think Karen is actually flirting with her Lawyer-Jackson. And I don't like how arrogant they both act
I personally think it’s a cover up. I don’t think she did it. It sounds like he was leading her on a bit or not communicating. She was confused about the situation and hurt. But I still do not believe she did it or hurt him.
She did it
Did what?
@@Pippie807 Karen Read drunkenly ran over O Keefe. It's an open and shut case.
look at Karen lying! kids testified Karen came to canton, but she texted I'm back in Mansfied!
So? Trying to get his ass on gear and get on home IS HORRIFYING!
She said that to get a response from him! He said he was relying on her to get a ride home that night so she was trying to encourage a response! She wasn't ever actually in Mansfied.
Wow she’s trying to make him choose her over the kids. Disgusting.
You just eating up everything these women are saying. Like it’s fact or something 😂😂😂
Wait a minute it's definitely not up to the attorney's whether or not she testifies she's just relinquishing that and I understand that but let's not make the mistake of thinking she can't testify if she wants to. I think she just knows better
It is when she trusts them and their expertise. Smart clients don’t go against their good lawyers.
You never know… she comes across as she thinks she’s smarter/better than everyone else and we all remember Alex Murdaugh! I don’t think she’s stupid or narcissistic enough to take the stand but people can surprise you! It would be catastrophic!(imo)
@@JustLikeJulia9 exactly what I was thinking LOL Alec murdaugh.
@@JustLikeJulia9 agree. And she's vindictive IMO. I think she really wants to get up there but the lawyers know her angry side will probably become apparent. Although with all the support she seems to have behind her, maybe they will think she can take the stand and still appear likeable. I would love to see it!
@@stargazer6328 I’d love to see it too!!
Omg going to a party with home alone children, so sorry for them
I'm not sure what happened but to me it sounded like John was pulling away from Karen. The children were a source of frustration but the text messages are cold from John. It's a really tough case 😢
It’s too bad you haven’t followed the trial
She killed him by accident or not it still happened bcuz she likes to be in control and it would hurt the girls he was caring for. Not sure why ppl say free her if it was still manslaughter and she wasn’t very nice. Even when she wasn’t drunk she felt treats towards family friends and other women. She’s a narcissist and hasn’t shed a tear during this trial when they talk about her boyfriend. Frozen and didn’t see him when she came back. Lastly.. should she have been drinking and driving. The police setting her up is ridiculous whether true or not why her? No one else ? Check the history of those officers but no matter what, the texts show her true colors.
Every couple argues but not everyone's partner ends up dead after they argue and that's the problem here..
They argued a lot and John turned up dead.!!
The prisons are full of such people who have snapped in a moment of rage during an argument and especially while intoxicated.
These texts are important because it shows that it was more likely than not that, once again they got into another argument that night,
outside the house.
It also shows that it was a pattern of behaviour in their relationship and a build up of contempt and resentment.
When someone is intoxicated they are much more likely to snap a lash out and they have less control of their impulses and reactions.
What's more likely to have happened...that she hit and killed John during an argument or
That at the same time John was going through a bad relationship constantly arguing with Karen,
a group of people killed him and then framed her ??.. the odds of it being the latter is ridiculously absurd.
The explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is most likely correct..
That is Karen hit him, it's a extra and unnecessary assumption to say...
"someone made it appear like she did it" rather than she actually did it.. which requires the far fewer assumptions, if any at all.
This Judge also needs to be investigated. We need to protest to have her removed ASAP
So glad ro see Vinnie is starting to see the wood for the trees! Carol Liebman is totally 0n it!
She backed up fast, a looonnnggg way. No way he wasn't her target. She meant to bump, not necessarily kill him. They already admitted it as an accident early on. Some " brilliant" blogger who thinks hes the smartest in the room, started this whole lie. Hopefully, the jurors are smarter.
Explain the evidence then , explain with 100% physics how the car hit him , to match his injuries , for his body to end up where it did , how the light pieces landed in the exact same position, the glass in the same position as the body , one shoe a distance away from his body.
I'm afraid you will never ever explain that evidence , because none of it fits with him being hit by a car.
@steve, how bout you wait for the medical examiner to testify in the coming days?? There may well be internal injuries.
@steve10... did I ask YOUR opinion of MY comment?
@@jtjones4081 the medical examiner is just there for an opinion, the scene where his body was will never ever match a car hitting him , that is physical evidence that physics shows is impossible.
If he was hit by the car , this would have been an easy case for the prosecution but every turn and every expert has messed up. It's easier to find the truth than it is to hide a lie.
@@terrys.1401 😀😀😀 on a public "forum" you don't need to ask