I am fine if it was a end of Expansion gimmik. I love how corruption was breaking the game. For me that would be un-fun mid expansion. But at the end, its like a send off and just being silly.
@@KyhronLunathat was literally the fun part, why wouldnt we be jacked up gods when were fighting a fucking old god? As a pvper tho vers stack corruptions were so obnoxious
@@KyhronLuna When it comes to pve, who cares. Every class had access to all the same stuff corruption wise. That was the fun of it. The game doesn't need to be micro managed & everything fine tuned & limited by blizzard. That is the issue currently (at least in M+) They are making dungeons harder & harder but only certain classes can really do them due to defensives & utility. If you go watch max's best & worst M+ dungeons videos. Alot of the "easier" & more fun dungeons were listed as top 10. Freehold, Underrot, Galakronds fall, Sanguine depths, & others. The reason FH & UR are in there is because they have mechanics that are punishing but there are multiple ways to handle them. Everything doesn't need stopped or interrupted, some you just dodge it. IE the breath from the worms in UR. In FH you had the fixate guys that you can slow, de-enrage, stun, root, etc. There should be multiple answers to these things.
I started in 8.2 and Visions of Nzoth was SO much better than any other patch I've played, S is the only fair option. I was playing a lot but I was only heroic raiding (occasionally helping a guild in mythic) so the first bit of accessibility wasn't important to me. The corruption vendor was SO noice, playing Hpal and getting 80% wings uptime was just so much fun, building out corruption on my other guys (masterful for my mage ect), it was just SO much fun. Azerite armour was sick at this point, it added a lot of cool stuff to your character but because it was all on a vendor it was easy to get the pieces you needed. the only issue was how much corruption trivialised the difficulty especially in heroic
I'm so happy every tierlist ranks 8.3 so high. It was an amazing patch, alt gearing issues with corruptions and essences aside. The raid was amazing, and the corruptions were the ultimate power fantasy.
Legion was really good throughout if you weren't in the top couple hundred mythic raiding. But for the others, yeah, which is the worst because it took a year and a half of shit to get there, and if you join at least patch the catchup grind is rough so not as good experience as those who played through. For example, last patch bfa with the Visions and corruption and essences was really cool and super fun, but for people joining then they had the artifact grind (islands), warfronts, the rares in the 2 revamped zones, mythic plus for good azerite gear, then you catch up to last patch and wont die fighting the nzoth zones so you grind that, now there's the essences which might involve things you don't like to do and you may have a sub optimal one at level 3 but need to go out of the way for others. That shit is huge garbo on top of corruptions and Az gear being full random. And most is required for raid for mythic plus or pvp because it's all power
@@cosmicwonderer6269 Legion first patch was awful, grinding 2 hours every day to keep up on AP and having RNG Legendaries. Unable to offspec or play multiple chars. Legion also had forced raiding for tier to do m+. Titanforging/warforging being an awful mechanic that at least got capped some what in BFA. I agree with the guy you replied to really hard. All 3 follows the same pattern and Legion would have been seen a lot worse if it wasn`t released as the first of the 3 expansions. I quit legion before tomb and don`t have a lot of good things to say about that expansion (maybe later patches saved it but until the it was a rough experiance).
@@thatepicwizardguy I would disagree with never, last 2 seasons of m+ in SL was good. And BFA had really good m+ dungeons and even raids. Systems just sucked at the start of every expansion and it never got fixed in BFA while end of SL and probably Legion was fine.
Legion was a disaster at first for everyone above LFR content. Titanforging, artifact power, random legos made the game much worse. The only reason Legion is S tier is due to the fantastic amount and quality of content added, both story and PvE, and this is mostly because WoD was cut short.
@@hasany.9095from the phrasing the guy is either a new player and or someone who simply disagrees with the video But I think on the contrary that he's the disconnected one or simply lacks objective vision / thinking. At least when looking at BFA and DF patches I agree with mots of what was said, and I wasn't there during SL.
@@Kemyo0 So the guy is disconnected because he doesn't agree with your favorite streamer. Didn't even insult the game World of Warcraft fans proving they're still the worst people ever
The end of BFA, having 5 gearsets of different corrupted gear (full haste set, full crit set, full dps set, full vers set, full meme set) Allowed me to do so much cool stuff in pve/pve/visions. That was peak WoW for me. playing class with that much stats felt great
The thing with removing AP from WQs is not only about seasonal vs all day players. It's also about what people like doing with their time in the game. And the feeling of if I want to do X activity I am forced to do dialy, constant chores on Y activity, just to get the power I need to X activity because character power is tied to it. It's like Visions of N'zoth, I personally loved doing 5 mask runs, and then trying on alts to do them as early as poissble. When I you're forced to do them every week and can't fall behind on an alt, or can't ever catch an alt up, it ruins it. I loved Torghast, in 9.3 when I came back, and they removed rhe restrictions and gave it the little skill tree (which gave you Qo amd other power ups inside it, no more looting enemies for the in-run currency). I loved rhe Mage Tower, got my 1st appearance on Day 1 of release spent hours progging the encounter with consumables the whole thing, changing talents, figuring stuff out. If I was forced to grind it every week for player power, it would be ruined. Personally the activities I love doing in WoW are M+ dungeons and Raids with friends. And trying out different alts, and doing those activities with them. WQs are fun, for the first couple of weeks I engage with the expansion or patches open world content. Anything that becomes a demand on my game time and becomes a requirement for player power in order to spend it doing what I actually want to (M+ and Raids), becomes a drag and drains the fun out of the game eventually. No matter how good the activity.
The patch for BFA that introduced essences not mentioning the ridiculous hoops you had to jump through for some BiS is criminal. Stuff like blood of the fallen initial release being a ridiculous amount of pvp farming before being needed. That alone with the benthic gear rng should’ve knocked it down a tier.
yes i hated this. Best in slot essences for PvE were PvP ones and this was cringe as fuck. I grinded arena rating to 1'800 and a lot of battlegrounds to get these rank 3's but fuck me i really don't want to PvP in order to be better at raiding. Remember MOP and people malding over having to win 2 random battlegrounds? This is 1000 times worse lol.
End of bfa one of my favorite patches of all time. The corruption system was the firs time since beta I found gearing to be interesting. I do agree how you got it was horrible at the start and still kind of lame with the vendor but using and playing with corrupt was so much fun. The corrupted timeline solo stuff was pretty fun to.
One thing that was a huge issue in the beginning of SL for casual high end players, was how overpowered PvP gear was. If you didn't do PvP you would fall significantly behind a potentially lose your raid spot.
I think a lot of people forget that the first 2 or 3 times you ever ran torghast it was actually kind of awesome. It's just that the misery of the 200th time is all that sticks in your memory.
Depends on your class spec. Shamans just ran as resto because it was magnitudes easier due to healing rain dmg. IIRC priests had a hard time all expansion so it was hell for them.
@@myopiniondoesntmatter7068 Our Priest player loved it, especially in groups. They also had a talent for killing themselves with Shadow Word: Death, which was always good for a laugh. It was unfortunate that which class you were changed how much fun the anima powers were so much. Some classes had amazing stuff, some had stuff that was okay but boring, and some just had junk.
I’m that person who likes Torghast even now. I did all the achievements, mounts, t-mogs. Sometimes it felt repetitive but in general it was such a good feeling to progress futher and stack passives everytime. In addition I had 6 alts(diff classes) so It was exciting to do discover how other classes play it Torghast. I just dont know, it was great experience thru the all expansion.
Getting rid of borrowed power in dragonflight was definitely a big W, but borrowed power was added to the game to solve a very specific problem. If you add stuff every expansion and never take anything away, it eventually gets to be way too much. That's a problem that's going to crop back up eventually, and it will be interesting to see how they address it.
burrowed power also narrowed the gap between specs and made imbalances less noticeable or less cared for. with no burrowed power your power is based on your spec and how your spec synergizes with other specs to add up even more power just from that synergy. and because blizz cant balance shit we got to a situation where only a select few specs that synergize the best get to push high endgame content, because they bring the highest "burrowed power", while the majority of the playerbase will have to reroll to those specs to feel powerful enough or they will be unwanted and weak. stuff like drums and buff scrolls were also removed/gutted by blizz for whatever reason. those are good burrowed powers to have that dont force a grind so why remove them
I was playing casually in 8.3, and while it was so fun getting BACK into wow, I remember corruptions feeling like absolute ass. I always felt like I was so far behind that there was no point in trying
Lore-wise, Visions of N'zoth was garbo tier... but gameplay wise, it was a definite S tier. You haven't truly lived until you've seen some dude get absolutely DELETED by a twilight devastation, hit so hard that they got sent back to Wrath And horrific visions was actually pretty good. It was challenging (in a strategic way) and you had to plan out your route in advance. If snore-ghast was based off of horrific visions, then I have no idea how they fucked it up so badly, it should have been a home run.
As a non mythic raider the only issue I had with Legion launch was the artifact weapon grind for OS. Overall though it was an 'S'. My first legendary was the chain lighting wrists that I got from a BG. I still loved it
Is there any chance we get something like a second channel for just uploading max reacts to videos in the future? i found this late and wanted to also watch the max reaction to dratnos tier list as well but twitch vods are only for the last 2 month so it got deleted:( Thanks for amazing content anyways, this was amazing.
Eternity's End (SL's end) has to be at least an A: 2 amazing m+ affixes; catalyst (late but still better than not having one); for the 1st time you could do multiple raids in a patch, altho in a schedule but still but better than not having it; dinars; all mega dungeons as a m+ rotation; only negative, for some people, is the raid was too hard
Im sure people are going to absolutly hate this opinion here, but i agree with blizzard with the whole start of the shadowlands and not being able to swap covs. Max here and alot of other people always say "Lore" doesnt matter its a game. but the lore is what drives the game. Why did we go into CN? well to stop denathrius's plans and stuff. but i guess we could just take all the lore out of it and we can change the names of each boss and call Shriekwing "Big Bat Gargoyle" and Denathrius him self to "big bad guy of expansion 1" shadowlands we can just call "death plane". and even dragonflight now we can just changes the names of everything to generic dragon 1 and 2. every player can have thier names removed and just be player. so sorry story and why the game takes its path is the most important part. Now i will agree that they definintely waited way to long to make them swapable. it should have been the week after actually finishing the cov storyline but not before. there are alot of people that play the game just for the play part, sure you dont care about the story but if you dont then you cant complain about how they write the story. if you were to play any fully single player game what would you complain about if the gear you could get was good and the game play was fun but it had no sustinace and the story just didnt make sence? well you would get destiny 1, where the game was very fun but you had no idea what was going on. what was peoples biggest complaint about Destiny 1? the story wasnt there and made no sence. sothe story needs to be taken into account. you cant just say its a game let us do whatever. might as well just buy Zelda games log onto them and have access to every item right away. same with wow. log in and have all top end gear and just play to beat things. items should never degrade and have unlimited uses. the reasons people like things is because you gain the ability to gain things and not just have everything. how bored would you be if you started playing wow and at level 1 had level 70 mythic BiS gear and just walked around and everything died because you just were there. the bosses have mechanics and such because they have a "Story" which means they arnt just hit the boss and it dies. you need to work towards it.
New player to wow from the start of this expansion. Got super burnt out in ff14 and ever since moving over here I've had an absolute blast. Dragonflight raiding and m+ has been incredible
I think raiding it will only get better for you because the bosses of DF were so forgettable, I can remember more bosses from any raid since Legion than the 10.0 ones. Not even gonna talk about the final raid boss being a dracthyr in 10.1, like that was so lazy.
Theres just no way that 8.0 isn't the worst patch in WoW history i'm sorry. The entirety of the rest of BFA was spent trying to undo changes made in that patch.
@pendlayroe I don't buy it. No one wanted anything implemented in 8.0 All the player feedback was that everything they did was bad, and they did it anyway. 9.1 can be the straw that broke the camels back. Fine. But 8.0 was fucking ABYSMAL. I've never had to grind gear I couldn't fucking equip until I did another dumbass grind I didn't care about before or since. Christ your BIS could be an m0 item for weeks at launch over mythic raid gear because mythic azerite was unusable for weeks. Insanely dogshit patch. Never before or since has blizzard been as fucking awful as 8.0.
@@myopiniondoesntmatter7068 To be fair, that's the same with anything else. Having alts means doing repetitive content to some degree, even if catchup mechanics have improved since then.
@@oatfarls Making it brutal to keep them up to date is what kills expansions though. SL was also horrible for it due to torghast, korthia requirements etc. Legion you NEEDED alts to feel good if you got a bad lego on your main. In mythic guilds you got benched over others purely on RNG so alts were a thing much earlier than most expansions. I know guilds bar the ~top 20 didn't NEED to bench people over it, but they did cause the RWF meta filters down without understanding.
Good thing you left out the Thunder King patch, because that should be the winner based on that baller fucking trailer. Else, shadows of n'zoth and twilight dev was the shit
I want them to bring back torghast but reskinned as caverns of time and only for fun But I want 10 mythic + in the pool, I know it’s a tall ask, but I think 2 more dungeons in the season would help elongate the season for me personally
Chains of Domination felt like a near death experience for WoW. A horrible open world/daily zone and system followed a 9 month content hole so for the first time in 10 years we had real trouble getting 10 people back to raiding at least, many filled up weeks - topped of by a 15 minute fight that was... okay, not even very great 15 minutes.
BfA had some great world content, and the leveling is insane to this day. The story was flawed but the actually playing the War campaigns were fun, it really felt like a war, even as a PvE player.
53:20 I wish they had done what they did with the Dawn of the Infinite dungeon for the new dragonflight dungeons that weren't in the rotation for the season. Just a set difficulty activity with decent loot to get a taste of the dungeon while it waits for its time in m+. Maybe a weekly quest to do a specific one that rewards normal raid loot, similar to the timewalking raid quests
...a weekly for DF dungeons exists, and it rewards Heroic raid loot. Also, all the OLD Dragonflight dungeons from s1 already have "a set difficulty with """""""decent""""""" loot". It's called Mythic 0. There are no other "new Dragonflight dungeons that weren't in the rotation for the season". Also, if you just want upgradable-to-441 gear from OLD DF dungeons (like in Dawn of the Infinite), then what'd be the point of the current M+ pool? The weekly from them is already just there to help shitters get gear they don't deserve from piss content.
@@Frawt dude I was talking about last season, and m0 is kinda shit. The 4 dungeons in the pool this season effectively didn’t exist last season, it would’ve been cool if there was a way to play them at a somewhat difficult level that didn’t completely fuck the loot pool, hence giving raid loot instead of dungeon loot
watching this now and its making me regret my choices to drop expansions after the 2nd raid ever since legion lmfao. For some reason I always hop back on WoW a few weeks before a new xpac to pvp and dick around with the boys, play the new xpac for a few months, then quit either just before or shortly after the 2nd raid comes out. The only exception to this rule was when I raided mythic because nothing was going to stop me from getting CE Guldan. I swear this time in TWW im going to play every season haha
The AoE thing works for healers, too, at least for me personally! When aoe damage is coming i fucking love it as a disc in M+ but when I have to ST heal i feel so bad 😢
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Actually a good and reasonable list with well explained takes.
If anyone wonders why 8.3 is in S tier, all I can say is that everyone was completely overpowered and over tuned. Crazy haste procs and cd reduction procs. It was fun.
I'm surprised Max likes the essence system in BFA so much. Grinding them was annoying, none of them (besides 1) were really impactful, and they weren't account bound for some wild reason. The only thing that wasn't just "whatever' about the system was Focusing Iris was a fucking awesome button to push, and maybe that's the only thing Max is thinking of when he thinks about the system? Idk.
25:50, regarding World Quests. I was fine losing world quests, but I really hated losing things like the match game or fly in and kill just one guy and fly out to earn progress towards my box. Which is why Legion is still my favorite expansion among many other reasons. At least they've gotten back somewhat to fast and fun world quests to just enjoy yourself though.
I do not enjoy filling the bar and still don’t. If I can log in and make significant progress on a series of characters in roughly 15 minutes per character then just move on to other things I enjoy either in game or real life I’m a happy camper. Spending 10 minutes or longer to fill a bar compared to just flying in and killing one bounty mob is an unenjoyable and rather inefficient way to spend my time given where I’m at with my life. Those quests should absolutely still be available for those that want to do them, but I’ll go ahead and stick with the more speedy things.
i never got my bis corruptions. it was tragic. i wouldnt get new gear because i wasnt pumping hard enough for my guild to say it was worth it to give to me
When I think about it objectively, yes dragonflight is a better expension and the patches are good. In terms of fun/ my own opinion: After shadowlands season 3 (and 4) , the state of mythic+ became worse every season. The dungeons don't feel that great, with season 2 being worse than season one (despite having the BFA dungeons). Thundering was a bad seasonal affix, but having no seasonal affix makes it less interesting. The upgrade systems doesn't feel nice either. If I want to help friends in lower level keys, I don't get valor to upgrade my gear, but i get shitty upgrade tokens that are not compatible with my gear. however, it is nice that you can upgrade raid gear with tokens, but overall I would rather have the valor system.
As for Maw, one of the big problems with the no-riding was that Druids and Shamans could still use their Travel Form/Ghost Wolf, so for them it was just an annoying place. For everyone else, it was an incredible pain, having to walk most places, not being able to outrun pats you accidentally picked up, and on and on. That wasn't just a QoL difference, but more like playing on a whole different difficulty level, not just moment to moment, but overall, because Druids and Shamans could grind so much more efficiently, and in WoW efficiency is everything for a lot of players.
End bfa was feast or famine though for casual at least . The difference between the BiS corruption and azerite talents was over 50k dps variance for some classes. They managed to salvage a horrible system the game play was fun for a good portion of people but it was a bandied system
As the first retail patch I've ever played, 8.3 was fun. But I don't understand why 9.0 is so low on the list, I absolutely loved progging Mythic, Sire was such an amazing boss both mechanically and as a theme. Maybe because it was my first CE, but regardless.
Torghast timegating, covenant restrictions, gearing was shit, the Maw was such a shit zone. To me it started like an A and it just kept getting worse and worse with the passing of the time because it lasted too damn long.
I can't believe people want Blizzard to straight up remove augmentation from the game. Blizzard finally adds a proper support role to the game and the top 1% players lose their fucking minds because they think its ruining mythic+ by making comps unbalanced. Spoiler alert, mythic+ is always like that and it always gets worse as the expansion progresses. Besides, I'm sure that more support roles will be added and further balancing will eventually make it better. We all should be excited over this evolution of the game.
I hated fatescribe more than kelthuzad. We actively avoided doing the fight at all in heroic reclears even. If you ever tried doing the runes with above 120-150ms (Basically living in the continent of America outside of the US) it became a buggy unpredictable mess.
What made Korthia do dislike was that was when they finally released flying for the expansion, then gave us a new zone where all the "new stuff" was and we were stuck on the ground.
I wonder where Max is getting the notion that way more people like augmentation than dislike it. Because the only people who like the addition of augmentation evoker in my top 400 mythic guild are the people who play augmentation evoker.
Most players I know are indifferent to it, but my guild is a F&F guild that does normal to heroic raiding (our numbers usually drop to the point we can't raid before we clear heroic these days) and mid-teens m+. I think the polarisation is more a serious/high-level player thing.
Massive W, since Legion Dragonflight is begining of expansion that is A tier. Yeah there are grievances in dragonflight but if blizz continues on this path...we are good.
I guess if you powered through the beginning of the last two bfa patches they were fine. but i played them on release for a few weeks and quit because they started out so awful. and then later on when i tried playing late bfa, having to catch up on essences and corruptions was an awful experience from what i remember.
for me the Rise of Azshara is tier "F" maximum, it was my first moment when I decided to take a huge break from WoW, because this patch was increadibly zero
Chains having it's own tier at the bottom...yeah accurate. I like SoD but that's about it. Also fuck the shards. On the topic of s4, I actually think fated raid affixes were just garbage design. The amount of padding made it so hard to tell who was doing actually good dps at a glance and also just felt so out of place overall....but M+ in s4, even if I stopped and came back for DF pre patch...that was a banger.
Definitely think your most controversial opinion here is Rise of Azshara. I'd have done the same as Dratnos and dropped it straight in F tier - as someone who was in a guild in Legion that shot for getting KSM and narrowly getting Curve, that patch had us clearing the raid on Normal a grand total of twice and never wanting to try Heroic and barely any of us ran keys above +9. Was the beginning of the end for our guild of 13 years, we had one last drama bomb and died 3 months into 8.3. Overall the least interaction I've ever had with a WoW tier save when MoP drove off half our players for the first year. 8.3 was definitely GOAT tier though. Half a dozen of us moved servers, found a new guild and not only did Curve for the first time since Legion but killed some Mythic bosses for the first time ever AND we formed a static M+ group that pushed beyond +15 for our first time and is still together every Thursday and has been getting full clear +20s done since SL S4.
Nyalotha was piss easy, I full pugged it on Mythic and I think half of the raid was one shot or 2 shot tops. I was glad that I could finally do Mythic without progressing with a guild and die 200 times on every boss. Also having 100% crit almost all the time as a BM hunter was hilarious lmao
Love borrowed power or hate it, we will never reach as high in an expansion again as the end of the borrowed power expansions without it. Having double SL leggos, all your corruptions and azerite traits, bis essences, god damn that shit was so fucking fun once we got to that point in the expansion. If this is what wow is now, it'll be fun, but it reaches a ceiling of fun where the coolest thing we get is an elemental lariat or rare ring from raid. I think that's bad for the long term health of the game and will lead to people eventually getting bored and moving on forever.
Prideful was terrible because it REQUIRED you to always follow very specific routes. If you had one guy pull something by accident then it would just wreck your key because you either wouldn't have prideful for where you wanted it, or you'd get prideful right in the middle of a tough fight and it would wreck the group. Prideful was a pug killer through and through.
Putting 9.1 in its own tier below F really spoke to me lmao. What an awful experience. The only real disagreement I have is that I would have rated 8.1 higher as Blizzard really seemed to have improved what was totally wrong with 8.0 in many ways. 8.2 above it doesn't sit right.
100% turbo disagree on Crucible being bad. The loot was terrible but I think the fights being designed around guilds clearing and farming Jaina on mythic is really cool. Was also the last 2 boss raid we got and I think more of those would be cool. Shadowlands launch was the worst I have ever played by a mile. Can't fly at the start, yet again, terrible city, can't just go to other zones without going back to the city first, conduits, no maw mounting, the eye of the jailer, never any maw flying, can't fly in the city oh my god it was terrible. For me, fated was super super fun and was the only decent thing I remember from Shadowlands. Hated Korthia and Zethor Mortis with a passion. But Season 4 was the best season for me, ever.
I'm here after watching Azmongold's reaction to the Pres of Bliz calling him out. First off, I am not an Azmongold fangirl, if i see that he has an interesting reaction video I will watch but I am in no way a regular viewer or stream viewer. In fact I can't stand twitch. I will try to keep this short. I played WoW for over 11 years. Towards the end for me it seemed like Bliz was making content for more hardcore players than casual players. I don't have time for that. I don't get paid to play a game I feel that Bliz listened to players like Azmongold only see these same players virtually stop playing WoW when Bliz put in the things THEY liked. I saw the comment from the pres of Bliz and I feel he's right about not being able to mythic. It's too stressful, too much time needed to get good at it and just an all around elite playground. Which was fine as long as heroic and normal versions are available. In my case I can't mythic raid and I don't want to. Finally, I resent the fact that Bliz not only abused women in the workplace. That wasn't enough, they then proceeded to remove many of the femineity items from the game. I am done with men attempting to erase women under the guise of progress. You don't have to agree but it's my 2 cents and why I left and will never return. If you're still enjoying the game then good I'm happy for you!
It's crazy to think that "getting the right legendary" is the first thing to be said not at all talking about any of the content. Just an item. No wonder this game sucked since legion ended
I feel like this video should be "I ranked every WoW *Season* Since Legion" instead of "patch", most of the topics that are touched on are just seasonal based. The fact that you didn't even mention cross faction play shows it, and there are more systems, features, and content that weren't touched upon that easily take away dev time from the rest of the game. IMO 9.2 / 9.3 and 10.0 were the 2/3 best patches we may have ever seen based on not only the seasonal content we got but also what else was done for the game and if every patch was like those the game would be really great
encrypted is the best season affix ever and should have been a fixed affix since, all the cool things you could do with it, specially with the skips, soloing the market minigame as a rogue was the apex of the season for me, it felt so good I really like dragonflight, but the rotating m+ dungeons on killed it for me and I have not done it since the beginning of the expansion, the itemization is bad, some dungeons have awkward balancing, it's just awful
48:30 On EU the server I play on its 100% true, We had 2 guys that was the ring guy, I was the L boots guy, Had 3 other that was the weapon guys, So i feel like it was executed well, just got overflown by ppl like 1 week later cause it was not hard to get to that point with no to much effort
no way bro put dragonflight this hight 😭 i even played all through shadowlands but dragonflight was so unimaginably boring i stopped in like S2 and came back in prepatch for next expansion
Legion was great. Except being the ret paladin that looted magnum opus and then next legendary also being trash then the other ret paladin get 2 of the best legendaries…
for me, BFA was peak world of warcraft experience both as a raider and as a M+ player. surprisingly shadowlands season 3 was "fine".. it had some really bad keys and ofc SOFO had halondrus and anduin. but in my honest opinion season 4 shadowlands was much worse gameplay-wise. both karazhan dungeons were really bad, gimrail and iron docks were both almost unplayable for melee classes. on the other hand tazavesh and mechagon were really good especially gambit and junkyard. but back to my original point. mechagon is BFA and it was great even in BFA besides really good M+ keys like FH,AD,UR and ML, corruptions were really fun to play with, essences were a very welcome addition(altho alt enjoyers wouldn't agree till season 4) i personally enjoyed visions so much with the masks and time limit, nyalotha was a fun raid with some challenges but nothing too impossible. eternal palace is one of my most favorite raids of all time. but i still agree that season 1 BFA was extremely bad. season 2 was "meh" at best but you can say the same for basically every expansion up until dragonflight (starting from legion ofc)
I am "pro" augmentation, im just not "pro" having a mendatory spec that is so much better than any other spec and enables one comb only cause it also only works with certain specs. Poor game design at its finest. Having the best dps spec also make the whole group so much more tanky is a joke. Delete the invicible shield + the versa groupbuff and give him more dmg on his own spells.
Essences alone stopped a lot of my friends from coming back in the middle of BfA. Even when they made the Essences account-wide and nerfed the initial requirements they still took too long to get for how much power they gave your character so by the time a lot of returning players got halfway through grinding the 'required' essences they were burnt out before they started doing the parts of the game they were actually interested in
I had the opposite experience. I played pretty seasonally in BFA for like a month or two per patch but spent a lot of time in Azshara just getting essences on my alts and enjoying how cool they were to use like firing your laser beam in M+. It didnt hurt that Nazjatar and Mechagon were just fun zones to be in.
I never get why everyone loved Legion so much? Was it purely because it followed WoD? Yeah it introduced m+ but comparitively the BFA dungeons were on a another level both mechanics and thematic wise. The AP grind in both xpacs was painful, but definetly worse in BFA. SL to me was an all time worst, despite every WoW personality raving about it in Beta. How they changed their tune! DF started slow, but its improving all round
You're a little bit "out of touch" when you say people in lower keys generally liked Prideful. This wasn't the case because even in lower keys Prideful basically made MDT mandatory. If you spawned Prideful at a bad time you would just wipe. So it removed the ability to just "press W" which was super annoying. People don't want to be bothered with MDT just to do a +15 key. On top of that people had no idea how to use the buff correctly and it would often be wasted just running around.
57:49 Yes 10.1 was better than 10.0 they added the crest system, removed the toxic seasonal affix and the raid was far better than Vault IMO barring Zskarn, 10.1.5 is probably one of the worst patches they've ever put out and that's Aug in its entirety, they completely torpedoed their immaculate record at balance and class tuning with that spec and removed the only tool people had in game to monitor their performance, before you might've been ok if you went and practiced on a dummy but now oh boy is that impossible, you have to go to raid do several pulls, get the log and analyze it, I cannot stress enough how BAD this feels.
9.1 is the only time I removed WoW from my pc. I fcking detest Korthia. Really bad. 9.2/3 the Zereth Mortis patch is mehh to me. I dont gief a shiit about mounts of pets of xmogs etc so that zone was pretty useless for me. I loved legion, from start to finish! Got my BiS leggo really fast, then we got to be able to get two legendaries, always something to do, amazing! Had a great guild, got my first Cutting Edge, got a couple really good parses. Yea, Legion was fcking amazing! Probally even better then MoP. I mean, they remade the best raid ever made into a mega dungeon, and they nailed it!
I may be in the minority here, but i enjoyed the 20% increment aspect of Prideful. You needed to craft routes to get the Prideful spawn at the right time. Not just to kill a difficult boss, but trying not to waste the buff and not spawning during a tough pull. It was a very interesting problem imo.
"tomb of sargeras was an awesome raid" Perspectives from the world first bubble are always wild. Sure, S tier, if you ignore the lazy fight design and how miserable most guilds were.
I liked it, and I was in a "Do normal and then progress to Heroic" guild. It wasn't as good as Nighthold, but I thought that was a really good raid. I think Tomb was about the same as Argus, but more consistent (aside from Kil'Jaden - he was way overtuned). Some Argus fights were very good, others completely forgettable.
![[UA] Eternal Fire проти NAVI | EPL Season 20 Malta](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/chvlsDygrZM/mqdefault.jpg)
Post Corruption Vendor 8.3 was the most fun I ever had playing WoW
man this brought back 8.3 nostalgia, such a banger of a patch it’s amazing they haven’t attempted anything like corruption again since
I am fine if it was a end of Expansion gimmik. I love how corruption was breaking the game. For me that would be un-fun mid expansion. But at the end, its like a send off and just being silly.
It really isn't. They really underestimated how strong corruptions would be and how much they ended up breaking the game and balance
@@KyhronLunathat was literally the fun part, why wouldnt we be jacked up gods when were fighting a fucking old god? As a pvper tho vers stack corruptions were so obnoxious
@@billnyedoesminecraftjoseph8379 corruption masically meant all ur gear were trinkets
@@KyhronLuna When it comes to pve, who cares. Every class had access to all the same stuff corruption wise. That was the fun of it. The game doesn't need to be micro managed & everything fine tuned & limited by blizzard. That is the issue currently (at least in M+) They are making dungeons harder & harder but only certain classes can really do them due to defensives & utility. If you go watch max's best & worst M+ dungeons videos. Alot of the "easier" & more fun dungeons were listed as top 10. Freehold, Underrot, Galakronds fall, Sanguine depths, & others. The reason FH & UR are in there is because they have mechanics that are punishing but there are multiple ways to handle them. Everything doesn't need stopped or interrupted, some you just dodge it. IE the breath from the worms in UR. In FH you had the fixate guys that you can slow, de-enrage, stun, root, etc. There should be multiple answers to these things.
I started in 8.2 and Visions of Nzoth was SO much better than any other patch I've played, S is the only fair option. I was playing a lot but I was only heroic raiding (occasionally helping a guild in mythic) so the first bit of accessibility wasn't important to me. The corruption vendor was SO noice, playing Hpal and getting 80% wings uptime was just so much fun, building out corruption on my other guys (masterful for my mage ect), it was just SO much fun. Azerite armour was sick at this point, it added a lot of cool stuff to your character but because it was all on a vendor it was easy to get the pieces you needed. the only issue was how much corruption trivialised the difficulty especially in heroic
I had a similar experience, but I pushed a little into mythic pugs (and as UHDK). Glad to see someone here shares a similarity
I'm so happy every tierlist ranks 8.3 so high. It was an amazing patch, alt gearing issues with corruptions and essences aside. The raid was amazing, and the corruptions were the ultimate power fantasy.
End of BFA is some of my favorite memories of WoW, it was a ton of fun imo
I feel like Legion, BFA and SL got really good at the end of each expansion with really bad starts. I remember hard quitting legion during launch.
Legion was really good throughout if you weren't in the top couple hundred mythic raiding. But for the others, yeah, which is the worst because it took a year and a half of shit to get there, and if you join at least patch the catchup grind is rough so not as good experience as those who played through. For example, last patch bfa with the Visions and corruption and essences was really cool and super fun, but for people joining then they had the artifact grind (islands), warfronts, the rares in the 2 revamped zones, mythic plus for good azerite gear, then you catch up to last patch and wont die fighting the nzoth zones so you grind that, now there's the essences which might involve things you don't like to do and you may have a sub optimal one at level 3 but need to go out of the way for others. That shit is huge garbo on top of corruptions and Az gear being full random. And most is required for raid for mythic plus or pvp because it's all power
@@cosmicwonderer6269 Legion first patch was awful, grinding 2 hours every day to keep up on AP and having RNG Legendaries. Unable to offspec or play multiple chars. Legion also had forced raiding for tier to do m+. Titanforging/warforging being an awful mechanic that at least got capped some what in BFA. I agree with the guy you replied to really hard. All 3 follows the same pattern and Legion would have been seen a lot worse if it wasn`t released as the first of the 3 expansions. I quit legion before tomb and don`t have a lot of good things to say about that expansion (maybe later patches saved it but until the it was a rough experiance).
Legion was fucking awful in a lot of ways for a long while. It had a longer good phase than shadowlands and bfa was almost never good
@@thatepicwizardguy I would disagree with never, last 2 seasons of m+ in SL was good. And BFA had really good m+ dungeons and even raids. Systems just sucked at the start of every expansion and it never got fixed in BFA while end of SL and probably Legion was fine.
Legion was a disaster at first for everyone above LFR content. Titanforging, artifact power, random legos made the game much worse. The only reason Legion is S tier is due to the fantastic amount and quality of content added, both story and PvE, and this is mostly because WoD was cut short.
This video made me realize the huge disconnect between what diehard fans think is fun and what newer players enjoy.
what do you mean? are you a newer player? and if yes, what do you think about the game?^^
@@hasany.9095from the phrasing the guy is either a new player and or someone who simply disagrees with the video
But I think on the contrary that he's the disconnected one or simply lacks objective vision / thinking.
At least when looking at BFA and DF patches I agree with mots of what was said, and I wasn't there during SL.
And yet diehard players still play the game
@@Kemyo0 So the guy is disconnected because he doesn't agree with your favorite streamer. Didn't even insult the game
World of Warcraft fans proving they're still the worst people ever
@@CrowYaegeryou didn't play many games if you think wow players are the worst 😂
The end of BFA, having 5 gearsets of different corrupted gear (full haste set, full crit set, full dps set, full vers set, full meme set) Allowed me to do so much cool stuff in pve/pve/visions.
That was peak WoW for me.
playing class with that much stats felt great
The thing with removing AP from WQs is not only about seasonal vs all day players.
It's also about what people like doing with their time in the game. And the feeling of if I want to do X activity I am forced to do dialy, constant chores on Y activity, just to get the power I need to X activity because character power is tied to it.
It's like Visions of N'zoth, I personally loved doing 5 mask runs, and then trying on alts to do them as early as poissble. When I you're forced to do them every week and can't fall behind on an alt, or can't ever catch an alt up, it ruins it. I loved Torghast, in 9.3 when I came back, and they removed rhe restrictions and gave it the little skill tree (which gave you Qo amd other power ups inside it, no more looting enemies for the in-run currency). I loved rhe Mage Tower, got my 1st appearance on Day 1 of release spent hours progging the encounter with consumables the whole thing, changing talents, figuring stuff out.
If I was forced to grind it every week for player power, it would be ruined.
Personally the activities I love doing in WoW are M+ dungeons and Raids with friends. And trying out different alts, and doing those activities with them.
WQs are fun, for the first couple of weeks I engage with the expansion or patches open world content.
Anything that becomes a demand on my game time and becomes a requirement for player power in order to spend it doing what I actually want to (M+ and Raids), becomes a drag and drains the fun out of the game eventually. No matter how good the activity.
The patch for BFA that introduced essences not mentioning the ridiculous hoops you had to jump through for some BiS is criminal. Stuff like blood of the fallen initial release being a ridiculous amount of pvp farming before being needed. That alone with the benthic gear rng should’ve knocked it down a tier.
yes i hated this. Best in slot essences for PvE were PvP ones and this was cringe as fuck. I grinded arena rating to 1'800 and a lot of battlegrounds to get these rank 3's but fuck me i really don't want to PvP in order to be better at raiding.
Remember MOP and people malding over having to win 2 random battlegrounds? This is 1000 times worse lol.
End of bfa one of my favorite patches of all time. The corruption system was the firs time since beta I found gearing to be interesting. I do agree how you got it was horrible at the start and still kind of lame with the vendor but using and playing with corrupt was so much fun. The corrupted timeline solo stuff was pretty fun to.
Actually me too one of the first times since WOTLK I couldn’t put the game down
One thing that was a huge issue in the beginning of SL for casual high end players, was how overpowered PvP gear was. If you didn't do PvP you would fall significantly behind a potentially lose your raid spot.
I think a lot of people forget that the first 2 or 3 times you ever ran torghast it was actually kind of awesome. It's just that the misery of the 200th time is all that sticks in your memory.
Depends on your class spec. Shamans just ran as resto because it was magnitudes easier due to healing rain dmg.
IIRC priests had a hard time all expansion so it was hell for them.
@@myopiniondoesntmatter7068 Our Priest player loved it, especially in groups. They also had a talent for killing themselves with Shadow Word: Death, which was always good for a laugh.
It was unfortunate that which class you were changed how much fun the anima powers were so much. Some classes had amazing stuff, some had stuff that was okay but boring, and some just had junk.
I’m that person who likes Torghast even now. I did all the achievements, mounts, t-mogs. Sometimes it felt repetitive but in general it was such a good feeling to progress futher and stack passives everytime. In addition I had 6 alts(diff classes) so It was exciting to do discover how other classes play it Torghast.
I just dont know, it was great experience thru the all expansion.
it was shit the first time too
I didn't rly enjoy it at all.
Getting rid of borrowed power in dragonflight was definitely a big W, but borrowed power was added to the game to solve a very specific problem. If you add stuff every expansion and never take anything away, it eventually gets to be way too much. That's a problem that's going to crop back up eventually, and it will be interesting to see how they address it.
All gear is borrowed power
burrowed power also narrowed the gap between specs and made imbalances less noticeable or less cared for. with no burrowed power your power is based on your spec and how your spec synergizes with other specs to add up even more power just from that synergy. and because blizz cant balance shit we got to a situation where only a select few specs that synergize the best get to push high endgame content, because they bring the highest "burrowed power", while the majority of the playerbase will have to reroll to those specs to feel powerful enough or they will be unwanted and weak. stuff like drums and buff scrolls were also removed/gutted by blizz for whatever reason. those are good burrowed powers to have that dont force a grind so why remove them
@@azkendarken4403 *borrowed
I was playing casually in 8.3, and while it was so fun getting BACK into wow, I remember corruptions feeling like absolute ass. I always felt like I was so far behind that there was no point in trying
12:32 trash can mysteriously opens. One can only be led to assume its by some ghostly entity. Stay safe, Max
Lore-wise, Visions of N'zoth was garbo tier... but gameplay wise, it was a definite S tier.
You haven't truly lived until you've seen some dude get absolutely DELETED by a twilight devastation, hit so hard that they got sent back to Wrath
And horrific visions was actually pretty good. It was challenging (in a strategic way) and you had to plan out your route in advance. If snore-ghast was based off of horrific visions, then I have no idea how they fucked it up so badly, it should have been a home run.
Wow has no lore anymore dont cry
One thing to note about eternity’s end is that it brought back tier gear and it’s goated because that. So it was a solid low B
As a non mythic raider the only issue I had with Legion launch was the artifact weapon grind for OS. Overall though it was an 'S'. My first legendary was the chain lighting wrists that I got from a BG. I still loved it
Is there any chance we get something like a second channel for just uploading max reacts to videos in the future? i found this late and wanted to also watch the max reaction to dratnos tier list as well but twitch vods are only for the last 2 month so it got deleted:(
Thanks for amazing content anyways, this was amazing.
Eternity's End (SL's end) has to be at least an A: 2 amazing m+ affixes; catalyst (late but still better than not having one); for the 1st time you could do multiple raids in a patch, altho in a schedule but still but better than not having it; dinars; all mega dungeons as a m+ rotation; only negative, for some people, is the raid was too hard
Im sure people are going to absolutly hate this opinion here, but i agree with blizzard with the whole start of the shadowlands and not being able to swap covs. Max here and alot of other people always say "Lore" doesnt matter its a game. but the lore is what drives the game. Why did we go into CN? well to stop denathrius's plans and stuff. but i guess we could just take all the lore out of it and we can change the names of each boss and call Shriekwing "Big Bat Gargoyle" and Denathrius him self to "big bad guy of expansion 1" shadowlands we can just call "death plane". and even dragonflight now we can just changes the names of everything to generic dragon 1 and 2. every player can have thier names removed and just be player.
so sorry story and why the game takes its path is the most important part. Now i will agree that they definintely waited way to long to make them swapable. it should have been the week after actually finishing the cov storyline but not before. there are alot of people that play the game just for the play part, sure you dont care about the story but if you dont then you cant complain about how they write the story. if you were to play any fully single player game what would you complain about if the gear you could get was good and the game play was fun but it had no sustinace and the story just didnt make sence? well you would get destiny 1, where the game was very fun but you had no idea what was going on. what was peoples biggest complaint about Destiny 1? the story wasnt there and made no sence.
sothe story needs to be taken into account. you cant just say its a game let us do whatever. might as well just buy Zelda games log onto them and have access to every item right away. same with wow. log in and have all top end gear and just play to beat things. items should never degrade and have unlimited uses. the reasons people like things is because you gain the ability to gain things and not just have everything. how bored would you be if you started playing wow and at level 1 had level 70 mythic BiS gear and just walked around and everything died because you just were there. the bosses have mechanics and such because they have a "Story" which means they arnt just hit the boss and it dies. you need to work towards it.
New player to wow from the start of this expansion. Got super burnt out in ff14 and ever since moving over here I've had an absolute blast. Dragonflight raiding and m+ has been incredible
I think raiding it will only get better for you because the bosses of DF were so forgettable, I can remember more bosses from any raid since Legion than the 10.0 ones. Not even gonna talk about the final raid boss being a dracthyr in 10.1, like that was so lazy.
Another thing they did at the start of BFA was reduce M+ dungeon drops
Theres just no way that 8.0 isn't the worst patch in WoW history i'm sorry.
The entirety of the rest of BFA was spent trying to undo changes made in that patch.
Public persception matters a lot. Sanctum was were Blizzard not only showed their hubris but also outright contempt for the playerbase.
@pendlayroe I don't buy it.
No one wanted anything implemented in 8.0
All the player feedback was that everything they did was bad, and they did it anyway.
9.1 can be the straw that broke the camels back. Fine. But 8.0 was fucking ABYSMAL.
I've never had to grind gear I couldn't fucking equip until I did another dumbass grind I didn't care about before or since. Christ your BIS could be an m0 item for weeks at launch over mythic raid gear because mythic azerite was unusable for weeks.
Insanely dogshit patch. Never before or since has blizzard been as fucking awful as 8.0.
I would rank the beginning of Legion a letter grade higher simply because the artifact weapons, questlines, and class quests were utterly incredible.
Not if you had alts. Have fun doing Suramar 20 times
@@myopiniondoesntmatter7068 To be fair, that's the same with anything else. Having alts means doing repetitive content to some degree, even if catchup mechanics have improved since then.
@@oatfarls Making it brutal to keep them up to date is what kills expansions though. SL was also horrible for it due to torghast, korthia requirements etc.
Legion you NEEDED alts to feel good if you got a bad lego on your main. In mythic guilds you got benched over others purely on RNG so alts were a thing much earlier than most expansions.
I know guilds bar the ~top 20 didn't NEED to bench people over it, but they did cause the RWF meta filters down without understanding.
Good thing you left out the Thunder King patch, because that should be the winner based on that baller fucking trailer. Else, shadows of n'zoth and twilight dev was the shit
S3 and S4 of SL were the goats, i loved Tazavesh and I think it is the best dungeon design of any mega dungeon it’s actually insane
Yup S4 shadowlands was actually really fun
Zereth Mortis before flying was amazing, close to Timeless Isle imo.
I though it was cool when we only had a few special mounts that worked in The Maw, having to actually "earn the right" to mount there.
I want them to bring back torghast but reskinned as caverns of time and only for fun
But I want 10 mythic + in the pool, I know it’s a tall ask, but I think 2 more dungeons in the season would help elongate the season for me personally
D4 just nuked 10.1.(5)... all of my M+ mates and the whole guild went offline after Diablo came out.
I'm here for the visually scuffed tier list meta
Chains of Domination felt like a near death experience for WoW. A horrible open world/daily zone and system followed a 9 month content hole so for the first time in 10 years we had real trouble getting 10 people back to raiding at least, many filled up weeks - topped of by a 15 minute fight that was... okay, not even very great 15 minutes.
You’re definitely right that if you got your BIS legendary on your main as your first one it was EPIC.
8.2 and 8.3 were my shit as a casual and who played wow as its main game. so much shit to do.
BfA had some great world content, and the leveling is insane to this day. The story was flawed but the actually playing the War campaigns were fun, it really felt like a war, even as a PvE player.
It's hilarious how often blizz team has no clue
the link in the description isnt working. any other way i can see his reaction to dratnos's list?
53:20 I wish they had done what they did with the Dawn of the Infinite dungeon for the new dragonflight dungeons that weren't in the rotation for the season. Just a set difficulty activity with decent loot to get a taste of the dungeon while it waits for its time in m+. Maybe a weekly quest to do a specific one that rewards normal raid loot, similar to the timewalking raid quests
...a weekly for DF dungeons exists, and it rewards Heroic raid loot. Also, all the OLD Dragonflight dungeons from s1 already have "a set difficulty with """""""decent""""""" loot". It's called Mythic 0. There are no other "new Dragonflight dungeons that weren't in the rotation for the season".
Also, if you just want upgradable-to-441 gear from OLD DF dungeons (like in Dawn of the Infinite), then what'd be the point of the current M+ pool? The weekly from them is already just there to help shitters get gear they don't deserve from piss content.
@@Frawt dude I was talking about last season, and m0 is kinda shit. The 4 dungeons in the pool this season effectively didn’t exist last season, it would’ve been cool if there was a way to play them at a somewhat difficult level that didn’t completely fuck the loot pool, hence giving raid loot instead of dungeon loot
@@FrawtJesus ur insufferable
They just never did any of the promised balancing for SL. Gave up off the jump so covs and legos were a huge mess.
watching this now and its making me regret my choices to drop expansions after the 2nd raid ever since legion lmfao. For some reason I always hop back on WoW a few weeks before a new xpac to pvp and dick around with the boys, play the new xpac for a few months, then quit either just before or shortly after the 2nd raid comes out. The only exception to this rule was when I raided mythic because nothing was going to stop me from getting CE Guldan.
I swear this time in TWW im going to play every season haha
The AoE thing works for healers, too, at least for me personally! When aoe damage is coming i fucking love it as a disc in M+ but when I have to ST heal i feel so bad 😢
Actually a good and reasonable list with well explained takes.
If anyone wonders why 8.3 is in S tier, all I can say is that everyone was completely overpowered and over tuned. Crazy haste procs and cd reduction procs. It was fun.
Tfw when youre a brewmaster monk and ur optimal corruptions were versatility :/
dragonflight prepatch, with both legendaries, covenants and new talents was peak
I'm surprised Max likes the essence system in BFA so much. Grinding them was annoying, none of them (besides 1) were really impactful, and they weren't account bound for some wild reason. The only thing that wasn't just "whatever' about the system was Focusing Iris was a fucking awesome button to push, and maybe that's the only thing Max is thinking of when he thinks about the system? Idk.
25:50, regarding World Quests. I was fine losing world quests, but I really hated losing things like the match game or fly in and kill just one guy and fly out to earn progress towards my box. Which is why Legion is still my favorite expansion among many other reasons. At least they've gotten back somewhat to fast and fun world quests to just enjoy yourself though.
This just sounds like you wanted the content to be over faster. Idk how "flying in and killing just one guy" is fun.
I do not enjoy filling the bar and still don’t. If I can log in and make significant progress on a series of characters in roughly 15 minutes per character then just move on to other things I enjoy either in game or real life I’m a happy camper.
Spending 10 minutes or longer to fill a bar compared to just flying in and killing one bounty mob is an unenjoyable and rather inefficient way to spend my time given where I’m at with my life.
Those quests should absolutely still be available for those that want to do them, but I’ll go ahead and stick with the more speedy things.
Chains of Domination was my breaking point. I quit wow for a long time after that.
i never got my bis corruptions. it was tragic. i wouldnt get new gear because i wasnt pumping hard enough for my guild to say it was worth it to give to me
When I think about it objectively, yes dragonflight is a better expension and the patches are good.
In terms of fun/ my own opinion: After shadowlands season 3 (and 4) , the state of mythic+ became worse every season. The dungeons don't feel that great, with season 2 being worse than season one (despite having the BFA dungeons). Thundering was a bad seasonal affix, but having no seasonal affix makes it less interesting. The upgrade systems doesn't feel nice either. If I want to help friends in lower level keys, I don't get valor to upgrade my gear, but i get shitty upgrade tokens that are not compatible with my gear. however, it is nice that you can upgrade raid gear with tokens, but overall I would rather have the valor system.
As for Maw, one of the big problems with the no-riding was that Druids and Shamans could still use their Travel Form/Ghost Wolf, so for them it was just an annoying place. For everyone else, it was an incredible pain, having to walk most places, not being able to outrun pats you accidentally picked up, and on and on. That wasn't just a QoL difference, but more like playing on a whole different difficulty level, not just moment to moment, but overall, because Druids and Shamans could grind so much more efficiently, and in WoW efficiency is everything for a lot of players.
End bfa was feast or famine though for casual at least . The difference between the BiS corruption and azerite talents was over 50k dps variance for some classes. They managed to salvage a horrible system the game play was fun for a good portion of people but it was a bandied system
P1 Sylv made me go boomie cuz seeing my dps sky rocket on that part made my day (wasn’t like my guild forced me too…)
nighthold was on return to kharazan also
As the first retail patch I've ever played, 8.3 was fun. But I don't understand why 9.0 is so low on the list, I absolutely loved progging Mythic, Sire was such an amazing boss both mechanically and as a theme. Maybe because it was my first CE, but regardless.
Torghast timegating, covenant restrictions, gearing was shit, the Maw was such a shit zone. To me it started like an A and it just kept getting worse and worse with the passing of the time because it lasted too damn long.
I can't believe people want Blizzard to straight up remove augmentation from the game. Blizzard finally adds a proper support role to the game and the top 1% players lose their fucking minds because they think its ruining mythic+ by making comps unbalanced. Spoiler alert, mythic+ is always like that and it always gets worse as the expansion progresses. Besides, I'm sure that more support roles will be added and further balancing will eventually make it better. We all should be excited over this evolution of the game.
I hated fatescribe more than kelthuzad. We actively avoided doing the fight at all in heroic reclears even. If you ever tried doing the runes with above 120-150ms (Basically living in the continent of America outside of the US) it became a buggy unpredictable mess.
25:48 might want to get a priest out to your house man because that's some ghostly shit.
What made Korthia do dislike was that was when they finally released flying for the expansion, then gave us a new zone where all the "new stuff" was and we were stuck on the ground.
Korthia was also tiny and pretty ugly. Not being able to fly was whatever, the zone itself was just blegh imo.
I wonder where Max is getting the notion that way more people like augmentation than dislike it.
Because the only people who like the addition of augmentation evoker in my top 400 mythic guild are the people who play augmentation evoker.
Most players I know are indifferent to it, but my guild is a F&F guild that does normal to heroic raiding (our numbers usually drop to the point we can't raid before we clear heroic these days) and mid-teens m+. I think the polarisation is more a serious/high-level player thing.
Anyone know the name of Max's outro song? It's super chill and I'd like to listen to the full thing
Massive W, since Legion Dragonflight is begining of expansion that is A tier. Yeah there are grievances in dragonflight but if blizz continues on this path...we are good.
Dratnos really is goated
I guess if you powered through the beginning of the last two bfa patches they were fine. but i played them on release for a few weeks and quit because they started out so awful.
and then later on when i tried playing late bfa, having to catch up on essences and corruptions was an awful experience from what i remember.
Honestly, Islands could have been cool if they were dynamic (but targetable, loot wise) end game content like M+.
for me the Rise of Azshara is tier "F" maximum, it was my first moment when I decided to take a huge break from WoW, because this patch was increadibly zero
Chains having it's own tier at the bottom...yeah accurate. I like SoD but that's about it. Also fuck the shards. On the topic of s4, I actually think fated raid affixes were just garbage design. The amount of padding made it so hard to tell who was doing actually good dps at a glance and also just felt so out of place overall....but M+ in s4, even if I stopped and came back for DF pre patch...that was a banger.
Azhara being above a C is insane to me.
8.3 for PvP was LOL. Smashing my keyboard on my druid to 2500
4:27 Ghost?
Definitely think your most controversial opinion here is Rise of Azshara. I'd have done the same as Dratnos and dropped it straight in F tier - as someone who was in a guild in Legion that shot for getting KSM and narrowly getting Curve, that patch had us clearing the raid on Normal a grand total of twice and never wanting to try Heroic and barely any of us ran keys above +9. Was the beginning of the end for our guild of 13 years, we had one last drama bomb and died 3 months into 8.3. Overall the least interaction I've ever had with a WoW tier save when MoP drove off half our players for the first year.
8.3 was definitely GOAT tier though. Half a dozen of us moved servers, found a new guild and not only did Curve for the first time since Legion but killed some Mythic bosses for the first time ever AND we formed a static M+ group that pushed beyond +15 for our first time and is still together every Thursday and has been getting full clear +20s done since SL S4.
Nyalotha was piss easy, I full pugged it on Mythic and I think half of the raid was one shot or 2 shot tops. I was glad that I could finally do Mythic without progressing with a guild and die 200 times on every boss. Also having 100% crit almost all the time as a BM hunter was hilarious lmao
Love borrowed power or hate it, we will never reach as high in an expansion again as the end of the borrowed power expansions without it. Having double SL leggos, all your corruptions and azerite traits, bis essences, god damn that shit was so fucking fun once we got to that point in the expansion. If this is what wow is now, it'll be fun, but it reaches a ceiling of fun where the coolest thing we get is an elemental lariat or rare ring from raid. I think that's bad for the long term health of the game and will lead to people eventually getting bored and moving on forever.
Prideful was terrible because it REQUIRED you to always follow very specific routes. If you had one guy pull something by accident then it would just wreck your key because you either wouldn't have prideful for where you wanted it, or you'd get prideful right in the middle of a tough fight and it would wreck the group. Prideful was a pug killer through and through.
Putting 9.1 in its own tier below F really spoke to me lmao. What an awful experience. The only real disagreement I have is that I would have rated 8.1 higher as Blizzard really seemed to have improved what was totally wrong with 8.0 in many ways. 8.2 above it doesn't sit right.
100% turbo disagree on Crucible being bad. The loot was terrible but I think the fights being designed around guilds clearing and farming Jaina on mythic is really cool. Was also the last 2 boss raid we got and I think more of those would be cool.
Shadowlands launch was the worst I have ever played by a mile. Can't fly at the start, yet again, terrible city, can't just go to other zones without going back to the city first, conduits, no maw mounting, the eye of the jailer, never any maw flying, can't fly in the city oh my god it was terrible.
For me, fated was super super fun and was the only decent thing I remember from Shadowlands. Hated Korthia and Zethor Mortis with a passion. But Season 4 was the best season for me, ever.
legion was so incredible it almost makes every patch after it just shitty in perpetuity.
Legion prior to 7.3 was pretty meh
Legion was terrible for the first 6 months.
@@PendlayRoe It had the huge advantage that it came after WoD, which was pretty boring aside from some of the raids.
i like that yout video is 1 second shorter than dratnos lol
8.2 patch Rise of Azshara was good patch if you wasnt melee who needed that pvp essence Blood of the Enemy. BotE was so horrible to farm ...
I'm here after watching Azmongold's reaction to the Pres of Bliz calling him out. First off, I am not an Azmongold fangirl, if i see that he has an interesting reaction video I will watch but I am in no way a regular viewer or stream viewer. In fact I can't stand twitch.
I will try to keep this short. I played WoW for over 11 years. Towards the end for me it seemed like Bliz was making content for more hardcore players than casual players. I don't have time for that. I don't get paid to play a game I feel that Bliz listened to players like Azmongold only see these same players virtually stop playing WoW when Bliz put in the things THEY liked.
I saw the comment from the pres of Bliz and I feel he's right about not being able to mythic. It's too stressful, too much time needed to get good at it and just an all around elite playground. Which was fine as long as heroic and normal versions are available. In my case I can't mythic raid and I don't want to.
Finally, I resent the fact that Bliz not only abused women in the workplace. That wasn't enough, they then proceeded to remove many of the femineity items from the game. I am done with men attempting to erase women under the guise of progress.
You don't have to agree but it's my 2 cents and why I left and will never return. If you're still enjoying the game then good I'm happy for you!
It's crazy to think that "getting the right legendary" is the first thing to be said not at all talking about any of the content. Just an item. No wonder this game sucked since legion ended
I got double BIS fire legos first patch of Legion.......A ++++++ patch
Great Ted Talk. 10/10 Would watch again.
I feel like this video should be "I ranked every WoW *Season* Since Legion" instead of "patch", most of the topics that are touched on are just seasonal based. The fact that you didn't even mention cross faction play shows it, and there are more systems, features, and content that weren't touched upon that easily take away dev time from the rest of the game. IMO 9.2 / 9.3 and 10.0 were the 2/3 best patches we may have ever seen based on not only the seasonal content we got but also what else was done for the game and if every patch was like those the game would be really great
encrypted is the best season affix ever and should have been a fixed affix since, all the cool things you could do with it, specially with the skips, soloing the market minigame as a rogue was the apex of the season for me, it felt so good
I really like dragonflight, but the rotating m+ dungeons on killed it for me and I have not done it since the beginning of the expansion, the itemization is bad, some dungeons have awkward balancing, it's just awful
48:30 On EU the server I play on its 100% true, We had 2 guys that was the ring guy, I was the L boots guy, Had 3 other that was the weapon guys, So i feel like it was executed well, just got overflown by ppl like 1 week later cause it was not hard to get to that point with no to much effort
no way bro put dragonflight this hight 😭
i even played all through shadowlands but dragonflight was so unimaginably boring i stopped in like S2 and came back in prepatch for next expansion
Legion was great. Except being the ret paladin that looted magnum opus and then next legendary also being trash then the other ret paladin get 2 of the best legendaries…
for me, BFA was peak world of warcraft experience both as a raider and as a M+ player. surprisingly shadowlands season 3 was "fine".. it had some really bad keys and ofc SOFO had halondrus and anduin. but in my honest opinion season 4 shadowlands was much worse gameplay-wise. both karazhan dungeons were really bad, gimrail and iron docks were both almost unplayable for melee classes. on the other hand tazavesh and mechagon were really good especially gambit and junkyard. but back to my original point. mechagon is BFA and it was great even in BFA besides really good M+ keys like FH,AD,UR and ML, corruptions were really fun to play with, essences were a very welcome addition(altho alt enjoyers wouldn't agree till season 4) i personally enjoyed visions so much with the masks and time limit, nyalotha was a fun raid with some challenges but nothing too impossible. eternal palace is one of my most favorite raids of all time. but i still agree that season 1 BFA was extremely bad. season 2 was "meh" at best but you can say the same for basically every expansion up until dragonflight (starting from legion ofc)
Essences were amazing. Acquiring them was Deep dolly dumpster F.
Do not force me into pvp for pve or vice versa.
I don't think designing a seasonal affix is a coinflip
bless you fronk
I am one of those people that absolutely hate Augmentation. Ebon Might is an awful ability, and they designed most of the Aug's kit around it.
I am "pro" augmentation, im just not "pro" having a mendatory spec that is so much better than any other spec and enables one comb only cause it also only works with certain specs. Poor game design at its finest. Having the best dps spec also make the whole group so much more tanky is a joke. Delete the invicible shield + the versa groupbuff and give him more dmg on his own spells.
10.1.5 is like high C tier or low B tier as melee dps rn. Casters and evokers are loving it but by god is it ass for anyone else.
Essences alone stopped a lot of my friends from coming back in the middle of BfA. Even when they made the Essences account-wide and nerfed the initial requirements they still took too long to get for how much power they gave your character so by the time a lot of returning players got halfway through grinding the 'required' essences they were burnt out before they started doing the parts of the game they were actually interested in
I had the opposite experience. I played pretty seasonally in BFA for like a month or two per patch but spent a lot of time in Azshara just getting essences on my alts and enjoying how cool they were to use like firing your laser beam in M+. It didnt hurt that Nazjatar and Mechagon were just fun zones to be in.
I never get why everyone loved Legion so much? Was it purely because it followed WoD? Yeah it introduced m+ but comparitively the BFA dungeons were on a another level both mechanics and thematic wise. The AP grind in both xpacs was painful, but definetly worse in BFA. SL to me was an all time worst, despite every WoW personality raving about it in Beta. How they changed their tune! DF started slow, but its improving all round
You're a little bit "out of touch" when you say people in lower keys generally liked Prideful. This wasn't the case because even in lower keys Prideful basically made MDT mandatory. If you spawned Prideful at a bad time you would just wipe. So it removed the ability to just "press W" which was super annoying. People don't want to be bothered with MDT just to do a +15 key. On top of that people had no idea how to use the buff correctly and it would often be wasted just running around.
57:49 Yes 10.1 was better than 10.0 they added the crest system, removed the toxic seasonal affix and the raid was far better than Vault IMO barring Zskarn, 10.1.5 is probably one of the worst patches they've ever put out and that's Aug in its entirety, they completely torpedoed their immaculate record at balance and class tuning with that spec and removed the only tool people had in game to monitor their performance, before you might've been ok if you went and practiced on a dummy but now oh boy is that impossible, you have to go to raid do several pulls, get the log and analyze it, I cannot stress enough how BAD this feels.
9.1 is the only time I removed WoW from my pc. I fcking detest Korthia. Really bad.
9.2/3 the Zereth Mortis patch is mehh to me. I dont gief a shiit about mounts of pets of xmogs etc so that zone was pretty useless for me.
I loved legion, from start to finish! Got my BiS leggo really fast, then we got to be able to get two legendaries, always something to do, amazing! Had a great guild, got my first Cutting Edge, got a couple really good parses. Yea, Legion was fcking amazing! Probally even better then MoP. I mean, they remade the best raid ever made into a mega dungeon, and they nailed it!
I may be in the minority here, but i enjoyed the 20% increment aspect of Prideful. You needed to craft routes to get the Prideful spawn at the right time. Not just to kill a difficult boss, but trying not to waste the buff and not spawning during a tough pull. It was a very interesting problem imo.
How did you like it when someone couldn't follow the route exactly?
Tell that to the healer players
@@GUJonas I was typically the tank for Prideful, so it was mostly in my control. As a healer, it's a fun challenge.
"tomb of sargeras was an awesome raid" Perspectives from the world first bubble are always wild. Sure, S tier, if you ignore the lazy fight design and how miserable most guilds were.
I liked it, and I was in a "Do normal and then progress to Heroic" guild. It wasn't as good as Nighthold, but I thought that was a really good raid. I think Tomb was about the same as Argus, but more consistent (aside from Kil'Jaden - he was way overtuned). Some Argus fights were very good, others completely forgettable.