Old School is the Future of D&D
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- New stuff is always coming out, but the answers you seek to up your Dungeons and Dragons game might be in the past, or at least the OSR
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Love this! I remember when I started playing there were definitely some people who told me I wouldn’t like more OSR oriented play _because_ I love roleplay so much - but I actually thought a lot of the sessions I played in had higher stakes because of the increased lethality and a diminished focus on things like rolling for persuasion as the initial response to…you know, trying to persuade. Great video! 💕
I absolutely agree! To me immersion in the world and my character encourages more role play. I feel that's supported by the simplicity of the rules as well as emphasis on the more grounded survival aspects.
Older editions shouldn't be dismissed.
Well said, especially since whichever edition is your favorite today will be old tomorrow
@@RdotDoyle I have recently been reading some old 4e stuff & the DM Guide 2 has some absolute nuggets of advice in it that could easily be applied to any edition
True its how we got to this point. SO much stuff in packed into the old books - 1eDMG check it out
Moldvay Basic/Expert is the best edition.
I started playing with BECMI and Dolmenwood is an awesome setting. It's cool to know you're playing them.
Yeah I really like to dive deep into something before I talk about it on the channel, but Dolmenwood content is on the way because my goodness did we have a great time with it at my tables
OSR guy here.
People seem to need to know where to get started with the OSR. The answer is very simple: Basic Fantasy RPG. It's free online (legally) and the books are at cost from DTRPG, Amazon, Lulu, etc. There is also a wealth of free campaign material (also available at cost to print). It is being maintained by a vibrant community of volunteers that you can even join if you are imaginatively inclined (or better, artistically inclined). Buying all the 17 books in the catalog, material you can use for years and years of campaigning, including a copy of the core book for every player, will set you back less than a set of the 5E corebooks even at their Amazon box set discount.
Is it my favorite OSR game? No. That's how you know I'm telling the truth. It is undeniably the best place to start, and it is many people's favorite, just not mine.
Thanks for sharing this. I really debated how deep into systems I wanted to go and I said less in the hope of this being more approachable. I'm glad you have taken the time to spell this out here and I know somebody will read it and start a new phase of their TTRPG journey because of it
I have a few favourite games, WFRP 1e, Lion and Dragon and Basic Fantasy.
BF was the first one I had all the rules for (I had DnD etarter sets as a teenager but when I saw the price of core books and adventure modules I tapaped out.
With BF you have everything you need, and the modules are cheap or free if you don't need physical copies.
Very easy to house rule and customise too.
Excellent for new players and new DMs. I still return to it even though I run an ongoing WFRP campaign in my own setting.
It's funny, I got back into D&D recently with 3.5 around covid, switched to 5e to get all my friends started, then I very recently picked up the core books for 1st Edition Adnd and haven't looked back.
A great OSR "Basic Fantasy RPG" PDFs are entirely free, and the print books are "at cost" (about $8. for full size books). Lots of supporting material and adventures. The only reason its not as popular as other newer OSR is because newer ones emulate closer. But the small changes in BFRPG are actually positives and its still 90% compatible with any old edition material!
I tried doing a -2 penalty for ranged attacks in dim light (for 5E). My players about lost their minds, lol
These are great! The OSR features I usually make an appeal for are henchmen and hirelings; and boats or ships of any sort. While they seem to distract attention away from the PCs, it can also just be extra characters for the players to enjoy running, or a ready character for them to step into when their main character dies. Also, if a PC gets to a certain high level, a player will find that their henchmen is closer to the action and more fun to play. As for boats, they just make everything better and help make travel quick and also profitable. Money was a bigger deal in OSR, both not having enough and the Monty Haul. Boats can make either one exciting, often day-to-day. Boats get wrecked, cargoes ruined or stolen or taxed or maybe just not selling. Boats are maybe the ticket to more wealth, and can serve as or lead into strongholds. I guess my point is, unexpected stuff happened pretty much every session and made the heroics a matter of constant problem-solving, not access to whatever feats and powers drive the game now. Everyone used their noodle.
Thanks! Yeah I really like what hirelings bring to the table too, maybe we'll do a future video focused on them because I think they'll bring a lot to the game.
It's funny, I've never thought of a boat as an OSR thing but they are a classic money sink in the real world and I was just talking about how a boat can be a floating bastion in my Saltmarsh video.
Old school player: player skill is more important than character skill.
Young player: meta-gamer!
what is most amazing to me, is the OSR and specifically the 1e dmg and 1e wilderness survival an dungeon survival books describe so many words and aspects that help a DM describe environments. so good. 5e doesn't do this. in fact now we are suggested to subscribe to things like scribd lol
I think you summed up old school quite well.
Thanks, I wanted to make it approachable without going to far into the weeds so this one took a lot of editing
My favorite thing about old-school play is how easy it is to drag and drop different rules, methods, monsters, and various other things from other games into your home game.
I've been struggling for ages to figure out just what kind of game I want to run, because I like aspects of so many different games, and I think I've finally got a mix of rules I can use for a long-term campaign. What I plan on using is a Frankenstein Monster of Knave 2e, White Box, Blueholme, and a couple of things taken from Dragonbane and Survive This.
The core is Knave's classless nature and exploration procedures mixed with roll-under checks from Blueholme and White Box's catch-all Saving Throw number, supplemented with Survive This' 4d4 Saving Throw generation. Leveling up uses gold for EXP and a d20 roll-over method for each stat and your saving throw. If you roll over your established score, the score goes up by 1 (2 if you roll a Nat 20) and each score (saving throw included) maxes out at 18. In testing thus far, it feels fairly balanced, and I can't wait to see what my group thinks. :)
I started with AD&D 1st edition. We had to draft our own maps using graph paper and mostly play abstractly compared to having battle maps at the ready these days. I kind of miss those days.
I prefer that method, especially for solo. I envision the terrain with the shade of brown dirt along with grass and a random boulder here and there. Imagination, I believe is intentionally being degraded in society. No imagination and you cant envision a better circumstance or future.
Oh, and the music we played while drawing those maps! Iron maiden, anyone? Yngwie Malmsteen?
@@Butterb0ne We didn't play music during D&D. The only sound during DM descriptions was my uncle's voice. He has a very soothing voice that was great for DMing for us kids (I was 5 when I made my first cleric).
@@DrPluton Sounds like you didn't understand what I said.
I played in 1981 then again in 2008 with my kid. 2nd edition was the hook for me. Throughout the years I stay up on some of the D&D updates. Bought some 5e just to read. Haven’t played since 2008. I still have the books and so many 2nd edition modules to go back in time
Currently play 5e. Started in 1980, so…. Basic D&D and then AD&D. I use it all and everything in between! It’s all in your imagination.
The reason for the end of every edition of D&D (aside from the TSR office politics) can be summed up in three words: _too much crap._
Too many rules, too many systems, too many "optional" addons, that became a non-optional part of the mechanics of every adventure, and every campaign world. It started back in 2e, when proficiencies were introduced. Even though they were hardly used in the beginning, it spiraled out of control quickly. Today, both DMs and players believe everything should be determined by a roll.
As a teenager playing AD&D, I could have probably counted the total number of ability checks I made on one hand.
If players want the dice to decide every outcome, then just roll up 4 or 5 characters, and play by yourself. Make D&D into one long pen & paper game of BG3.
AD&D 1st Edition is where it’s at!
Comment, handle, picture: all on point
@@RdotDoyle I have toyed with the idea of switching to B/X though.
@GrognardPiper it’s not an exact copy but Old School Essentials is very close, and for me better. Highly recommend at least giving it a look. And I don’t know your preferred vibe and style but man do I love Dolmenwood
True, but if you are used to 5th edition, you probably should start with 2nd edition first. It is not a better game at all, but Gygax tended to be a bit unclear and didn't always make his books easy for the DM. It also have a higher survivability for the players and have several excellent settings 1st ed lacks like Planescape for instance.
The books are also way easier to find cheaply in a second hand store, with first ed you are probably best off just buying reprints from drivethroughrpg which is still far cheaper then the new D&D books. Second hand 1st ed books can get pricey if they are in nice shape.
Running through Gygax "Tomb of horror" in 1st ed is a kind of rite of passage all D&D fans should do at one point, you are very unlikely to beat the module but it is darn fun.
@@RdotDoyle I have OSE. I prefer the original basic/ expert books.
Great video. I can't play 5E and only play OSR/NSR/FKR games for exactly the reasons you spelled out.
I just joined a 2e Ravenloft game. I had forgotten so much about the edition. It was like coming home though.
Oh and every time I watch your videos I stare at your bookshelf only to notice new things.
Oh nice! And yeah, the shelf has a life of its own now, I need to do a purge soon maybe, or get another bookcase
@@RdotDoyle You can never have enough book cases...or books to adorn them.
I prefer to say "Original Spirit of Roleplay" ;)
Great points and I really liked how you brought the points to life. I've noticed that the notion of player skill can be a bit intimidating. I think it might actually help to talk about player immersion like you did. I've also told to my players that there's no one way to do things including the fact that these games are often sandboxes so you don't have to get stuck if you miss something or can't figure out something. That's the difference to something like video games where you have to figure out a specific solution to a puzzle or the whole game gets stuck.
I wonder what you think about the Dolmenwood system? I switched to it last year when the pre-published version were final enough to use and I absolutely love the small honings Gavin did to the OSE chassis.
I'm about to start running a Dolmenwood campaign, LOVE the setting. The physical books can't get here soon enough.
I love Dolmenwood, more on it from me soon. The only thing I didn't like about running it was only having PDFs because I also love books
Ryan has killed 2 of my characters so far. Highly recommend! 😅
hahaha, two so far...
😅 I need to catch up!
Several of my players came over from 5th Edition to play OSRIC, and also Dark Places & Demogorgons. We even play Swords and Wizardry and DCC
Dolmenwood is the best setting I've seen in like forever. I'm about to start a campaing next week. I'll be using shadowdark rules, coming from 3 years of 5e games, so I'm looking forward to it.
I think the one "old school" thing that no one really talks about is to read fantasy lit. The AD&D (1e) Dungeon Master's Guide (1979) has "Appendix N" which Dungeon Crawl Classics mentions in their "oath." In the group I played with in the 1980s, if you attempted to DM without reading any of those things, you would have been booed off the stage. (Dolmenwood has its "Inspirational Media," I wonder how many "Dolmenwood GMs" have run that game without delving into it.) In fantasy lit, a DM can mine all sorts of ideas. For example, quips that NPCs might say (so that every NPC doesn't sound like yet another miniature of the DM's personality). Also, one can find strange descriptions of areas and techniques of distributing information little by little to preserve some unknowns, and thus create uncanniness or weirdness in order to create a sense of wonder, awe, and fear in the players. I never see anyone talking about reading the literature and ways to use it as inspiration for the game they are running. I don't think it is "old school" unless you include fantasy literacy. (That's why 5e adventures are structured like video game railroads with prescribed plots, because they are not written, DMed and played by people who actually read enough fantasy. But I bet they play a lot of video games.)
My first thought was that maybe the rug would be a great giant torch.
Ha! See? Always fire with you people 🔥
I seen a lot odd uses of things like that (although usually they use strips of said carpet and a little bit of lamp oil around their burnt out torches to give them new life).
Heck, I seen players building bridges out of them (usually with either 2 10 feet poles or creative rope use), throwing it over a monster to trap it and using it to block dark vision (no heat signatures if you hold up a carpet between the group and a drow).
Players can be surprisingly creative if they get a bit desperate. :)
I can't agree more.
The Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg is all about player skill over character skill.
And yes, player choices have consequences.
Griff
I like the way you structure your talk. That said, I like playing RPGs for roleplay, for the story. And from all people say about OSRs, I feel like it stands in the way of roleplay for two reasons you mentioned:
1) The deadliness. It makes no sense to create hooks for your DM in the backstory to allow for some character arc if most of the times, your character won't live long enough to even start solving that. I'm not here to send Bob the 23rd into the Pyramid of skeletal crocodiles five mins after Bob the 22nd got chewed on the same spot by a random skeletal crocodile (and hope - and metagame by player experience - that Bob the 23rd will see Bob the 22nd's remains and makes use of the warning this provides).
The same way, I prefer building characters with traits and flaws that allow for character growth. So, let's say I want to play a character who needs to learn to control their recklessness. Under the oh-so-delightfully-tauted deadliness of OSR, such a character makes zero sense because there is no unconscious or similarly crippled situation that they survive and finally learn from. The just WILL die, not MAY die. End of story.
2) The emphasis on player skill. I prefer emphasis on player agency over skill. Because I want to play a character that DOESN'T know everything the player does. Such a character may do things that are suboptimal and tactically "wrong" for the sake of story. In old school, that makes, again, no sense. Because you can't think in the span of a character arc in such a game.
The same also happens for the other side of the spectrum. If my character fantasy is in the neighborhood of Sherlock Holmes, but my player skill in logical induction and escape rooms is lacking, I just created a character that's only as stupid as me with zero way to at least soften that. "If you're not strong enough, don't play powerful barbarians" is an obvious bullshit. Why then "If you're not smart enough, don't play detective-type Rogue or Wizard" is considered a good thing?
---
Is the old school this way more realistic? Yes. The same way as inexperienced soldiers die first and only those that don't have a chance to become veterans and reduce their chance of death significantly with their (player, in this case) experience. Is that more fun? For some people, sure. For me, I'm pretty sure it's not. Because I want to play my character with their quirks, NOT myself in the Pyramid of skeletal crocodiles, desperately trying not to die there.
Liked your video verdigris.
I am an Old School Old Timer all the way , and while I realize that the style I prefer will not
necessarily appeal to all , I do believe that if tried for what it is , it is soooo much more satisfying. I do , of course realize that my sociocultural milieu and the time in which my life has occurred make my focus different from a tweener in the 2020s , but I also believe that if they are exposed to it with the right spirit it will be appreciated and enjoyed ( more more more !).
Thanks for the video.
I started with AD&D back in the 80’s and have also played 5e. I see them as very separate games. I miss when encumbrance is left out or the bag of holding shows up. Adventure doesn’t need shortcuts.
Or when everyone gets Darkvision and no one needs a torch anymore.
There's a fine line between a game that's run purely by character stats and one where the characters are little more than placeholders for the players themselves. Players must be able to play characters smarter, wiser, stronger, and braver than themselves, and a DM must be able to facilitate that. While this is obvious in some situations, e.g. having a player roll a STR check to pick up a boulder, it's too often discounted in others, such as solving puzzles or persuading NPCs, where players are expected to use their own ability instead of their character's. Any amateur DM can handle PCs stronger or more dextrous than their player, but it takes more skill for a DM to effectively assist a player in running a smarter or wiser PC.
If WotC incorporated the older edition rules into their new VTT, they’d make some money for sure.
Delving Deeper RPG! Party like it's 1974!
Things getting lit on fire is pretty common, in my experience.
A lot of our inner fantasies is embracing our pyromania without consequences
Yeah, I don't think lighting massive fires in a closed dungeon really is the smartest thing you can do. Better bring a canary if you plan doing that.
On the plus side, most monsters need oxygen to breath too so the players wont go down alone unless it is an undead or plant based dungeon.
This video was fantastic. You’ve distilled the reasons I love and referee OSE games instead of 5E. My players have finally put away their phones, and are laughing and strategizing like never before.
Nice video.
I love that we live in a time where D&D is so heterogeneous - I started at the end of 2e - Love the movie Hook - “Tell me what you want to do” is a core feature of my DM style - when players start telling me what they’re going to roll or asking piecemeal questions to build a case for an action, I stop them and ask - it makes a big difference for all of us in terms of role playing, immersion and time - it also helps by preventing the need for some rolls - if you look in the fireplace, no need to roll to find the box in the fireplace - resource management is a feature I’ve both loved and hated at different times in my gaming journey - currently I’m liking it - one thing that I’ve almost never had trouble with in any edition is challenging my players and putting them in potentially lethal situations - they aren’t constantly dropping, but that does happen - I think the modern system as is puts the onus on the DM to make death a real possibility - if you want to kill a character, just do a bunch of damage and hit them twice while they’re down - easy enough, BUT that’s your call, DM - you are choosing to kill one of your PCs by kicking them when they’re down - it’s not that the one orc attack crit and brought them low - it’s not that they failed the save against fireball - those are different - the orc had a chance to miss and instead lucked into double damage - the PC had a chance to save but rolled low - blame the dice - but not with 5e - no, you actively chose to kill that character by deciding the enemy spent their action attacking a downed character, something that is fairly unpopular, because it’s an active choice on the part of the DM zero steps removed from the question: do you want to kill this player? - if you aren’t comfortable making that call, the fewer steps that stand between you and that question, the harder it will be to create a situation where death is a real threat
I’ve pondered that final piece a lot - 3 failed death rolls in a row is like a 12% chance: not likely, meaning any allies usually have 4+ rounds to heal 1 point of damage, apply bandages from a healers kit or make a DC 10 medicine check - in a game where you can drop even weak heals multiple times a turn, it’s trivial to bring someone back up - a cold heart has no trouble killing characters, but most of us don’t actually have those, despite what the reddit horror stories would have us believe - side note: I strongly believe most of those stories are fabricated - despite the rarity of death and reticence of DMs to off their PCs, plenty of people come out in the comments to say, “I don’t care! It’s not a problem! I’m not bothered! My monsters spend all their attacks on the downed players! I have a TPK every week!”, but I’ve never seen anything that suggests that’s even remotely common - the designers have created a system where, to kill your players’ characters, you have to want to and openly choose to, out loud to the players’ faces when you do it - as someone rooting for the PCs to succeed and as a friend of my players, I don’t like doing that - some tricks, and I hesitate to call them “tricks”, that I use are to have environmental features that can cause damage without my input, to have enemies use AoEs that catch downed PCs in the area, or to use monsters with passive damage like a bleed condition - instead of, “OK John, you’re down and the giant scorpion spends all its attacks on you, knocking off all your death saves and killing Lidda. Give me your character sheet, because it’s going into the fire,” I say, “OK John, your HP is low, and you’re poisoned from the giant scorpion battle, so it makes sense that you failed your athletics check and fell into the acid river. Now you’re on death saves and will lose one every turn due to the acid.” - does that feel better to you? It feels like more of a consequence of the PLAYER’S session choices rather than the DM’s - but should we have to set up such elaborate scenarios to make this possible? Maybe - I don’t know, but that’s currently what I find myself doing to keep death on the table - I’m very interested in a method of death saves I’ve seen versions of before but has been formalized in Mother Ship RPG - roll a d4 under a cup - once someone moves to stabilize the character, check the result of the d4 - if that many rounds have passed, the player is already dead - now no one knows (kind of like secret death saves) but it’s already foretold - the result is set - you’re just waiting to find out - you look at the cup over the d4 and just wait for it to be revealed - the unknown makes you itch, makes you uncomfortable, makes you afraid of what might be under there - it’s a monster on the other side of a door waiting to jump out and get you when you turn the knob - at the same time, I’ve been pondering how to have the PC fight an embodiment of death to continue to play instead of sitting around waiting to roll 1 save every round - surely there’s a way to merge these two ideas, but the whole may be less than the sum in this situation, and sticking to one or the other may be better depending on the vibe your going for
OK I want to make a video just based on this comment chain, this is very insightful. I say it all the time, "I don't want to kill your characters, but the monsters do" yet the way 5E is built it puts it on me to actively go out of my way as the DM to keep a character down the vast majority of the time. Like you, I'm not going to do that. And like you, I am deeply suspect of the people claiming they do all the time. I don't think they'd get a lot of return players, because the 5E mechanics do make it personal
@@RdotDoyle thank you very much - that’s very kind of you to say - I’d be interested to hear what you have to say on the topic as well - I’d watch that video - be happy to chat with you about it too - until such time, I’ll continue to post my streams of consciousness in the comments 😄 - see you next time 👋🏿
@@RdotDoyle Also, many thanks for reading thru that whole novel - got a little longer than expected 😅
It's very rare that I subscribe to a channel, based on one video, but that's what I just did.
Very thoughtful argument 👏
Thank you, a lot of work went into this one
In the first iteration of DnD, 1 gold = 1 xp. You wound up with so much cash it was ridiculous. What did you do with it when there were only mundane items to buy?
You built a fortress. You staffed it and equiped your army. Early DnD had a goal.
All of these are great! Well explained. Well done.
Imagine D&D players that wasted their last 20 years with inferior experiences. New generations of players will be more lucky, maybe.
absofricken lutely... :)
holy frigg, im soo happy with the Bruce Lee clip....it is one of my fav quotes i share with my karate students a lot :)
Heck yeah! I love this line. I almost inserted a few versions of it but I already shoved a lot of clips into this one, so they might make an appearance in later videos
Baptism of Fire was the #1 OSR game for 8 weeks straight. Check it out.
I've watched a lot of "what is OSR" videos, yours is my current favorite--well done! You explained the appeal well. As someone who has been gaming for 40 years, I returned home with OSR, specifically Shadowdark. No more 5e for me. I strongly encourage younger generations to try any of the many OSR options out there. Especially because WoTC is driving the whole thing online and digital, further changing the current incarnation of the game into something very different from its ancestors and, I think, inferior.
The problem for me with the "player rather than character" does things approach for me is that I am role playing. I'm not trying to be me in a fictional world, I try to play the character who has vastly different skills from me. That was one of the reasons I left D&D in the 80s and turned to systems like Rolemaster. I have returned to D&D/Pathfinder 1 and eventually transitioned to 5e. However, what I really would love is a game that is purely skill based and leaves out character levels. Runequest comes to mind.
I get that. What I love is the versatility for everyone to find what they're looking for. I'm weird in that I want it all, just at different times. I do think there's a sweet spot though where you can just describe that your genius character performs some master level feat without getting tripped up on the details, but I'm sure we could find exceptions to that
That is fair. If your character is an engineer and you aren't, rolling to get information is just fine.
With things like figuring out puzzles though, I don't think rolling for it is appropriate because that would make the whole thing rather pointless. Roll 17+ to continue is just a waste of everyone's time.
And dungeons should be pretty puzzle based. That is making things a bit hard for the DM since a puzzle needs the right difficulty (puzzle traps included), If it takes less then 5 minutes for the players to solve it, it is too easy. If it takes 30 minutes+ or they give up, it is way too hard. 10 minutes of thinking is perfect,
Also, a good DM would give you additionally information about traps that might make it easier since you are an engineer. That is really how you should handle things like this, the DM should provide the players with information their characters know after all, but just because you are an engineer doesn't necessarily means you can just disarm a gravity trap with a roll and zero thinking.
Every DM really need to find their own balance with their group to maximize the fun. If you are bored when playing, things isn't working right and you should talk that out with everyone.
Roleplaying is a team effort.
But then free-form roleplay is probably the best choice, why use a game system if you aren't interested in playing a game?
@@yurisei6732 The thing is that some game systems have you roll for everything (Phoenix command comes to mind, it is a pain to play though).
And yeah, other are super free form (like Amber).
But it tends to be most fun when things are in between those 2 extremes. If you just roll for everything, it really isn't much roleplaying.
If you on the other hand free form everything, things can get pretty boring too, you don't want to haggle every thing the players but just roll for it. You might want to let them RP haggling that super expensive magical sword the Pally have been saving up for 10 sessions to afford though.
So think to yourself "Which is most fun?" when an opportunity to roll or to let the player RP something.
Just rolling to solve a puzzle is usually boring unless the players get totally stuck.
Having them explain how to find a specific book in the Royal library of Cormyr on the other hand when they sneak in to steal it at night isn't fun so a roll is better.
You should also give hints to player with the right skill if you freeform something.
DMs need to be flexible, it is our job to make things entertaining (even if the players feel lazy and ask to just roll, will they feel the same after solving that puzzle?) as possible.
There is a certain feeling of achievement someone gets when solving a mystery a dice roll can't beat but it shouldn't feel tedious either and different groups have different preferences as well.
While I somewhat agree with you on the part about the answer is not on the character sheet, I really only apply that to the actual mechanics of the game. I allow the use (and sometimes consumption) of items in their inventory to bypass traps and such. But, when it comes to puzzles and such, people like me and the hundreds of players I've run for in the past decades couldn't solve a puzzle or riddle without the help of Google, lol. Since I didn't have regular access to the internet until about 2005 (started with basic set around 81 at recess), most of my gaming life has been without help from the internet, lol.
When it comes to roleplay vs roll play (I believe I am thinking the same definitions you are) I prefer roll play as I feel roleplay relies too much on DM fiat. I also feel similarly about milestone leveling, except I feel that it is absolute garbage, lol.
There's no school like the old school.
My only bugbear with 5e is that players are too precious about their characters. Nothing is more memorable than a great or even comical character death.
This right here, it might be an over correction for fear of sadistic DMing but I still don't like it
I lost my paladin in a 5e game - yeah I actually died, I know and the DM was kinda apologetic about it. I was like naw I'm good (I am on old school gamer)
But nothing is more off-turning than a character dying on some uninteresting random encounter without any deeper meaning. I remember so many people being p*ssed off by R.R.Martin for killing off all and any interesting character.
As an Evil DM, I approve of this video, and I pull all of my D&D campaigns to ShadowDark TTRPG 🧙♂🧙♂💜💜
Good video. I like it.
Great video describing the differences and why Old School adds more immersion by relying creative thinking and less on dice mechanics. Switch to Shadowdark a year ago and my group loves it.
yeah i'm in my OSR (+hack) era myself, which means i'm looking at basically all rulesets.
stealing stuff from various systems and editions. gone absolutely chaotic eclectic.
my roll-playing/theorycrafting/number-crunching/min-maxing friends *HATE* it.
i do need to have a ruleset (hack) i can give them, even if i consistently update it (with changelog) for their sake.
i suggest everyone try to play and understand the philosophy of FATE. assigning aspects to locations, etc.
i can't make a player-character without figuring out my "aspects" (even if they don't have a mechanical purpose in that game).
5e has traits/bonds/ideals/flaws but for those to really work, they have to be known and invokable to all.
Here's to our OSR eras. I never did the deep dive into FATE but I do like the idea of aspects codifying story elements being leveraged for mechanical impact. I've seen other versions of this and I'm not sure if anyone has hit the best of both worlds with it yet, maybe it's time to give FATE a longer look
@@RdotDoyle FATE is really hard to digest, especially if you're approaching it as most players/DMs would. Dungeon Masterpiece has has a great video on that, actually(1). I think the best introduction is the TableTop episode(2) with Felicia Day.
I'm no FATE master. In fact, I think it's almost like trying to "master" a philosophy or practice (e.g., I have absolute understanding of Objectivism and nobody is better at Zen than me. lolol)
I had some film education and it feels a lot like that. Trying to learn things like "the line" (aka 180 degrees rule) because they're deceptively simple.
(1) "Fate Core: The Best RPG Everyone Rightfully Hates"
(2) "TableTop: Wil Wheaton Plays FATE CORE w/ Felicia Day, John Rogers, & Ryan Macklin"
[sorry for the novel lmao]
my man here finding out about the OSR for the first time...meanwhile it's been around for 10 years
There is an aspect of OSR circles that I debated including in here, which is the vein of gatekeeping that has become associated with it. So thanks for the opportunity to talk about how it is a small but vocal minority who are making these weird nerd-flexes, often based on false assumptions. Ego keeps them from sharing the cool things they enjoy with more people and I think it sucks, but mostly for them
I have my players using anti-hammer space inventory sheets and have changed the death saves to an save or die con save at the end of the player turn, even the threat was good enough let alone the multiple times they have almost died '
Well you just sent me down a rabbit hole and now I get why Ramona Flowers wields a hammer, so thank you
I don't think OSR is for everyone. It is certainly not for me. I started playing in the early 90s with the AD&D 2d Ed, and I won't lie, me and my group had a blast. But when 3e came out I left AD&D behind and never looked back. I prefer the new systems, and in fact, I didn't like 5e as it went back to many of the practices of that older era.
I have read a couple of the OSR games and didn't click for me at all.
I am just glad that the hobbie has grown to offer such varied options for everyone.
Shadowdark is hot.
I'd really like to try proper OSR some day, but the idea of having to play some sort of find-the-pixel game with my GM to explore a room feels absolutely awful.
I'm not going to be on the lookout for secret doors and passageways. I'm not going to be inspecting every drawer and barrel. And it sounds like I'm essentially going to be punished for that.
I think that was just an example of what's possible, not a constant thing. I've been in an osr campaign and we aren't looking under things like fools, unless there's a good reason.
@@DoctorTopper That makes sense, it's just an example I've heard before.
@@Fancy_Creb just remember DMs want it to be fun too. Sometimes they want to hide surprises, and other times something they want you to see will have a clue to look closer.
@@DoctorTopper Sure, sure. I guess I'm just envisioning a situation where my character, like, opens a chest and it turns out it's trapped, and I just happened to not check in the right spot for where the trap was, or maybe I just don't know as many ways a chest can even be trapped as the GM does.
@@Fancy_Creb Well, in the case you described, your GM only knows a few ways, and once one way gets anyone of your group, everyone else knows that one forever. Another thing to consider is OSR games its easier to make new characters or cycle through a roster of multiple.
Also, you can make up solutions that even the GM didn't think of. GMs like the creative solutions and are likely to roll with it if it sounds cool.
I got into the hobby before WotC made their version of D&D, but honestly the OSR is just not for me, just like D&D is not for me. I prefer different games, like Fiasco or the like. D&D and OSR is just catering to my interests. But I agree that there are plenty of different style that people can enjoy, and thus I would say that the OSR certainly seems to find its audience.
I really like the approach of the answer is not on the sheet, but for me the OSR style is too flat. I want that sweet emotional content, not as a sandbox, but as a thematic frame. One could say that Braunstein did what I am looking for, a clear scenario and the characters have agendas they follow. Not that meaningless open world hex crawl that dominates the OSR, with just world simulation. Thus the exploration I want is into the human condition, not the fictional setting, and certainly not any resource management.