How to get the Genesis Tony Banks Keyboard sounds using modern equipment
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
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How to get the Genesis Tony Banks Keyboard sounds using modern equipment
Howard Boder
The Book of Genesis
I had the fortune to see Genesis at Knebworth in 1978 and the two memorable sounds were the Taurus 1 bass pedals, which you could feel as much as hear and the Mellotron choir, which was hair-raisingly haunting.
"haunting" is how I describe the Mellotron sound in "Afterglow".
The Mellotron settings were Brass and 3 violins for the Watcher of the Skies intro. No choir settings. I would know.......I own a Mellotron M4000D and have sound cards 02-03-04-05-06. Not a big fan of the Mellotron sound card 07...it's just the band sounds on loops........but maybe I will jump on the grenade and buy it too. Just saying.......Mellotron aficionado since 2017. You're correct about the Taurus bass pedals played by Mike Rutherford. Rock on and Peace.
@@stargate1555 Confused. Are you answering a deleted question?
That watcher of the skies sound is spot on.
Epic!
You took the words right out of my mouth! It's hard to tell with the others because you don't hear them in isolation in the song, except with Watcher you do.
Wow, very interesting little video.
Isn't the keyboard intro to Watcher Of The Skies the most brilliant, majestic start to an album ever !
I can't believe how emotional it is to listen to the various iconic sounds of old genesis.
Wonderful, thank you.
Tony Banks is a genius. Thanks for this cool look behind the curtain.
To be honest I waited through almost the entire video to hear that magically awesome choir sound. I swear that every song I hear on the radio I end up subconsciously adding that sound in my head. It makes for some interesting "head music" when I'm listening to the bluegrass station lol.
When you played Watcher my cat started ripping everything in the room to shreds, so I figure that you nailed that sound!
Piano-end of lovers leap (from suppers ready)
Synth-bit from in the cage solo
Organ-opening of in the cage
Mellotron-bit from suppers ready (brass B), choir (afterglow), 3 violins (fountain of salmacis), Strings/brass and bass (watcher of the skies)
That Memotron is brilliant. Spot on with those sounds. Nostalgia at its best
`Mellotron....tape as a medium was brilliant
That MXR sounds very good on the organ. Like a church hall effect.
It's amazing how complex his piano sounds were 40 years ago
That Watcher Of The Skies intro sounds dead on. I love that immense sound it creates. The way you play it sounds like the exact notes too. You should do a video on how to play that intro b/c I would love to learn it. Just put a video camera over your hands playing the notes and I'll copy you lol.
That mellotron intro is epic. Actually Foxtrot album was my love from first spin... and still love it
I love the piano sound Banks got on ...and then there were three. Psychedelic!
Step 1: Be Tony Banks
🤣
Options with software plugins:
1) Any sampler (EXS24 in Logic): Yamaha CP-80 (with Chorus), RMI piano, RMI organ (both with phasers)
2) Arturia ARP2600V: for any leads (including the ARP pro-soloist, which shares much of the same sound wave characteristics with the 2600). The ARP is indispensable to re-create Lamb-Wuthering era sounds
3) GForce M-Tron: for all Mellotron stuff 1970-1976
4) Arturia CS-80V: for Duke period sounds. The CS 80 has a peculiar reedy sawtooth & peculiar square pulsewidth that isn't easily reproduced by other synths.
5) Arturia Prophet V (virtual Prophet 5 + Prophet VS): for Abacab era sounds (also as a substitute for the ARP Quadra stuff), the VS section for digital wavetable sounds of the Invisible Touch era)
6) Any good tone wheel organ software + phaser
Diste en el clavo.
+uyauabing And then suddenly... Blue Screen of Death !!! LOL
Not if you use a Mac or, better still, an old Muse Receptor... :) with ProSoloVST, M-Tron, GSi VB3, Kontakt (for RMI & Pianet). Covers everything live up to 1977 :)
uyauabing The Yamaha CS-80, being the most difficult to emulate, is also the most iconic sound, that and the Arp Quadra are by far my two favorite and missed. Great video, tnx for the memories
I suprised that Hammond organ emulation from Apple Garage band is quite good (for almost free - except cost of the iPad)
I'm pretty sure the In The Cage intro is actually the RMI on organ mode with a phaser of some sort ran through a real Leslie. You can hear it again (without the phaser I think) in In The Rapids if you listen close enough.
It is a RMI set on the organ patch with phaser on...no leslie if i recall correctly
While I don't think a lot of your sounds are THAT accurate, particularly the first few, I appreciate your good work and enjoyed watching. Take care!
For watcher, the left hand is "bass accordion". The right hand is strings and brass with the knob half way between the two sounds so it picks up 1/2 and 1/2 of the tape head. thus 3 sounds. On the MkII the keyboard is divided and you have left and right hand sounds
Really cool video. One TB sound that always has fascinated me was the the weird keyboard sound he used towards the end of The Giant Hogweed - where Peter sings"Mighty Hogweed is avenged" and Steve joins in harmonizing on the second time. It sounds really eerie & "whistle-ly", not sure how to describe it. And of course the heavy ending part with the strangest chord progression I've ever heard the keyboard sounds really odd also. I'm sure it's not to technical being the album is so old but I was always curious about that one Thanks again for the great video.
pretty sure it's the mellotron brass, at least mainly
it may be a synth. Tony was still using the ARP Pro-soloist till "and then there were three." It may be a Hammond organ in there too. It may also be a bit of Mellotron Strings (3 violin sound).
Yes I know the Saint-Saens piece very well but did not realise Tony used it as inspiration but now you have told me I can see it.
Thank you for sharing your useful knowledge.
Loved seeing your little "Lamb Lies Down" bit. I swear I heard some of the Lamb flutter bit in Supper's Ready, which I've been obsessively listening to for about a week.
My piano is the Yamaha P80. I am imitating both the hohner pianet and the RMI piano with this. For the hohner I mix the wurlizter and fender rhodes together and add chorus. For the RMI I mix rock piano and harpischord (coupled which means 2 notes an octave apart) and again chorus. Tony loves chorus!
Pretty neat name for a Genesis tribute band.
I can relate to this video. I used to play many of the old Genesis songs with the original keyboards. Sold my Mellotrons, but haven't found a buyer for the CP 70.
I don't agree that you've gotten anything nearly resembling a Hohner Pianet or the RMI Electra Piano. However, Nord have painstakingly and meticulously sampled prime specimens of both of these and made them available at their Sample Library Archive. You just need a Nord instrument.
I also liked that Banks often played more of a sustained organ chord sound vs. the percussive sound some other Prog keyboardists were overdosing on at the time.
*ahem*Keith Emerson*ahem*
Not really, I'd say that Rick Wright is more of the sustained organ guy. Quite a lot of Tony's stuff is pretty staccato (Get Em Out By Friday, Colony of Slippermen, Hogweed, Apocalypse in 9/8).
@@Syfoll I guess I mean compared to Emerson and Wakeman. I got onboard late with Genesis, Trick Of The Tail, and Banks' organ work in that era is definitely more sustain-driven than what E. & W. were doing at the time, but I see your point.
@@Syfoll True about Rick Wright.
@@meowzer999 ah yes, Tony definitely isn't afraid to hold down notes and clearly does that much more than Emerson and Wakeman
The one Banks sound I could use some help with is the lead synth from “Abacab.” I can tell there are 5ths at work but I could use a high-confidence explanation of just what is going on there.
It's done with a ARP quadra with a MXR distortion
You can use a dark polystnth with distortion and blend it with a lead saw oscillator with a soft chorus or a LFO that creates a warbles. An octave between the two sounds and you should be pretty near
@@sebastiencloutier9209 So is he playing fifths by hand?
@@hubbsllc yep
By memory, sometimes its fifths and sometimes its forths intervals
Its been awhile since i played that one
One of the finest 8:35 I’ve spent in my life
Wonderful, thank you, Howard!
Sound you are looking for is stab brass preset from Ensoniq VFX (album) with same sound from Ensoniq SD-1 (live). Ensoniq VFX / SD-1 also have main pad sound (Very Breathy) for Driving The Last Spike.
yes it comes with both a couple of CDs and a plug in memory card with all the sounds on it. You can then create 6 sound banks on the rack which is great for Genesis because you need them! Any MIDI keyboard with touch sensitivity preferably will do for interfacing to the module. You can layer sounds and adjust between two sounds (which was how Banks came up with the sound for Watcher on the right hand which is half way between brass B and 3 violins. The "watcher" sound is already a preset!
Although I'm not looking to have Tony's setup, I found your video very interesting!!
You should list what modern equipment you use.
Amazing insight. Thanks.
Hey Howard, just a quick one for ya. Which keyboard and preset is used for the trumpet/brass stab section in the instrumental of Fading Lights'? I know Tony Banks used a Korg Wavestation for most of it (Octave Strings, Mini Lead etc.), but that brass sound has baffled me for years, I can't find anything close to it, cheers...
It is 3 sounds. The right hand plays a layer of mellotron strings and brass. Tony found that if you adjust the A-B-C switch on the mellotron half way between strings and brass then the playback head plays both in combination thats how he did it live! Also the left hand is bass accordion. Tony played a M300 Mellotron at the time which he bought from King Crimson. The M300 has a split keyboard allowing different sounds on the left and right hand. The memotron can mimic all of this of course.
Tony never used an M300 mellotron! MKII to start then an M400.
Mike Pinder used M300(c.1969-70).
Spot on. will have to catch you live. Southend maybe. Are we allowed to singalong? :)
Oh, GAWD!!! A Genesis Trainspotter with synthesizers!! Fuck!
Decades old Tony Banks buff here (up to about 1980 that is, after that I think he often got unlucky with his keyboard and patch choices...) : you really know what you are talking about! Loved your vid. Thanks for posting! Yep, the Memotron is killer!!! Arp Prosoloist is tricky because it has such a great tone. I have the ProSoloVST software. Very very close but too unrelioable for live work.... :-/ It's the Arp which is the weak point of any a Genesis tribute band. I hope you found a solution!
Bonjour, vous qui semblez être très bien informé, d après vous quel est la configuration idéale pour pouvoir tout jouer de genesis avec les sons de Tony Banks ? Merci
More about Bank's expression and agility on these old instruments to me. Studios today can't even recreate the original Motown wall of sound reverbs. Kinda cool, if you ask me.
hi... all in a mouse's night is played with a roland rs 202 that Banks used only in studio... live for this track he used mellotron...
you can now get the M4000D which is a digital version of the Mellotron M400 but you also get Chamberlin sounds as well as any Mellotron sound you want. Your not limited to just 3 sounds.
Just Google M4000D
I'm sorry, but this sounds nothing like a Hohner Pianet or an RMI. I use the Nord which has a very accurate sample of a restored Pianet N. Plus, they also have great RMI 368 Electra Piano sounds in their library. They also have the rights to issue the entire Mellotron master tapes collection and a Hammond Organ model that is second to none.
Didn’t Tony use the Yamaha CP-70B from mid 70s right through to early 90s
Scott Ptolomey yes. Very distinctive sound
Early 80s, he used the RMI in mid 70s
Great video, very informative. Does the Memotron Rack come with all the sample library discs loaded?
So cool, I don't play Keyboards but being a huge genesis fan appreciate knowing how etc. Thank-you.
"I know what I like (and I like what I know)"
16 genuine sounds from original Mellotron production tapes in the updated Mellotronics M3000 iPad app. $11.99 and controllable by external MIDI keyboard.
Many thanks for the info. I have the G Force MTron software but would prefer the Memotron keyboard or rack. Would love to see an overhead video of the exact chords you are playing in "Watcher" as I would love to learn this. Has to be one of the best opening chord sequences ever.
if you're into Mellotron, look up the M-Tron Pro by G-FORCE, it has a freakin' ton of Tron sound including patches for Wakeman, Beatles, Genesis of course, some early Floyd patches (Sysyphus), for sheer value it's a must have for soft synth aficionados...
I just picked up a Nord Electro 4-D and hope to get a lot of Chamberlin/Mellotron sounds into it. The plan is to leave the M-400 and the other behemoths in the studio...they are soooo unroadworthy. Bump a corner on a Tron or an Optigan & tweak the cabinet out of alignment, and they are pretty much history. Same with temperature, humidity and temperature variations....hopefully the Nord can consolidate the gear, but like bands like Anekdoten, I sure would love to take the vintage gear touring.
I haven't read much of the thread, BUT, the best way to get 'that' sound is to start with the OG gear used.... that's kind of a no-brainer
I think the key point here is budget. You can probably pick up a memotron for far less than an actual mellotron. And it'll work far more reliably. It may not sound exact, but it doesn't really have to. As long as it evokes the emotion of the song from the period, I'd say why not?
Brilliant, thanks a lot. It is amazingly difficult to find good information on what sounds were used for different passages in synthesizer music, and this was a great help. Now all I need to do is find out how to emulate the instruments on a Mac (no space for a synth...). There are Mello sounds, but does anybody following this thread know what would be a reasonable approximation of the ARP?
yes we love people who singalong and join in
I just bought a Hohner pianet (it needed restoration and tuning and cost me a lot of money but its now great). For the RMI you can use electric piano + harpsichord + chorus and its very close as I showed in the video if you don't have a sampler :-))
Anyone looking for a Melotron sound on-the-cheap should check out the newer Casio WK & CTK series keyboards. Some of their string, brass and choir samples come pretty close. They also have drawbars for hammond-type sounds, all for a few hundred bucks.
For the Honer and the RMI I suggest the use of samples, as you do for the mellotron (This Memotron sounds great!)
I managed to get a t series hammond for £50 luckily
thanks. You can buy these memotrons from the Germany company Manikin. They are excellent and very well made. They come in 2 flavours, the keyboard version (3 sounds at a time) and the rack module which I have (6 sounds via MIDI channel selection which is better for my needs). I would imagine they would deliver to the US.
nice - lusting after the Memotron .. hard to find
Hello friend .. get me a doubt?
The introduction of the song "All in mouse nigth's" original .. is made with Melotron and Hammond ..? but what about the end? the Organ doing the harmony and phrases are not the Melotron ...? can you explain to me .. thx
Uggh what song is that at 2:38 again? I know it but its slipping my mind rn lol
In The Cage!
I just remembered lol great video too btw
One thing that throws everyone off is the fact that Rutherford played an actual cello line on the intro to WOTS.
Will try and do this.
I also plan a video showing how Tony used some "classical bits" in Genesis e.g. bits of ripples is inspired from Saint-Saens carnival of the animals (the aquarium) and a Tchaikovsky piano concerto! The overhand "lamb" technique comes from Debussy ("mouvement")
Web sources say it's an Ensoniq VFX, a patch called Synth Sect.
And noting that the intro to Watcher Of The Skies has that low bass drone...how did Banks achieve this?
you should be able to get close to it using a brass synth sound and efiting the filter and resonance? thats how I do it on my Yamaha S30 synth
If you cant vsts are great options, mtron has some great melly sounds and some of the analog simulators sound good. in this guys case if youre gonna pay that much for a rackmount i dont understand why he wouldnt have just bought the memotron with the keyboard, or one of the new digital mellotrons. but yeah you can get those sounds with vsts for way cheaper. :)
The Memotron sounds fantastic, the organ sounds good... the Pianet N sound needs some serious work; it's
really lacking the rich harmonics, and the way the timbre on a Pianet changes as the note decays. A real Pianet
N sounds closest to a Wurlitzer 200 (not the 200A) being played hard enough to break reeds.
Perfect mellotron sound.! Ive got sampletron sofware its cool too
I found out what he used from a number of sources, listings of equipment on album covers, other websites etc. I used to use a sampler for the mellotron (the MTRON) but it was unreliable live. The Memotron is a much better solution for live work and a beautifully made instrument.
A very interesting video.
By the way I know M-Tron plugin very well. It has nice (but quite short) samples but unstability of the M-Tron program driven me to write little program that converted all samplebanks of the M-Tron to normal Wav-files that i can load into any general sampler like Kontakt.
Very surprised to read a blog and find out how low end Tony Banks gear was until Duke.
Although he did have an ARP 2600, on Seconds Out the only synth on stage was the ARP Pro Soloist.
www.soundonsound.com/people/regenesis
great for those like me who can't afford that option lol, great vids by the way :)
hey.....how did u actually find out what exactly tony used????....and why not use a sampler for the mellowtron stuff??
I put a cheap-ass Casio thru a little guitar amp with reverb and phaser - instant Mellotron.
In 1998 I bought a cheap analog Casio CTK 480 with digital sampling tones. Tone 35 is most similar to "Watcher of the Skies" Intro mellotron sound than the VST Plugins I recently got!
Ween did the same thing on "The Pod".
But its expansive memotron. You can show me another sounds of this rack please ?
THANK YOU. I NEEDED THIS.
Nice! Saw King Crimson a few months ago in Prague, and they had the rack Memotron as well-sounded great! But...only the Mellotron Mini & 4000 & now...the Micro use sounds from Original tapes at very high sampling rate! Otherwise, Nord and samples (M-tron) and others would be as good and Mellotron would sell nothing! So...
cheers for all the valuable advice here and keyboard skills! still not happy with the ARP sound, i think it is still far from the original sound. the rest is spot on!
Hey great stuff you nailed IT ,,
I haven't tried a Kurzweil...sounds interesting
TONY ,TONY ,TONY KEEP UP!
The effort is interesting and praiseworthy, but actually you can achieve better results if you just carefully program a single Korg Kronos...
What the track play you in live ? Please. Escuse my english. Im French thanks
Kudos for not going the "laptop route" - but how on earth do you remember all those chords...?
Genesis is actually some of the easier stuff to remember. Imagine being a concert pianist having to memorize the thousands and thousands of notes in virtuoso peace like Hungarian Rhapsody?
Yeah but concert pianists use sheets, or at least read them. They don't memorize or improvise.
Get a Motif, SY99, M1, D50, XV5080 and Trinity V3. Thats it.. Emu, P5, will completed it.
I swear I heard a DX7 in their music somewhere and i'm pretty sure the FM section of the SY99 is 4 operator, not 6 like the DX7
Nah....ketauan ngumpulnya di UA-cam di tempat keyboard Genesis. Masih kurang satu instrumentnya........musti pake kolintang ama gamelan.
The DX7 and/or TX7 (the desktop version of it...definitely used by Tony Banks during live concerts) was used on their Invisible Touch album. // A voice of the SY99 could have up to 4 elements. But that has nothing to do with the number of operators. A single FM element of the SY99 has 6 operators with 16 different waveforms (sine + 15 additional ones) per operator...set up in 45 different algorithms.
very cool, you nailed many of those sounds !
There's no way to duplicate Cinema show accurately without using an ARP Pro-Soloist (or perhaps samples from a Pro-Soloist).
True. All Pro Soloist sounds are very unique. I had an Odyssey and even that couldn´t imitate that. Same goes for the last Genesis world tour. Tony Banks´ sounds on his Korg stuff were disappointing.
Most synthesizers have only a variable low pass filter or a variable low-pass and high pass filter. The ARP Pro-Soloist has a variable low pass filter, 4 high pass filters, and 3 banks of band pass filters. Each bank of band pass filters has between 3 and 6 individual band pass filters in it meaning you can select from around 12 different band pass filters. The band pass filters can be selected so they are either in series or in parallel with the variable low pass filter depending upon the patch. The fuzz guitar presets, which are Tony's favorite presets on the Pro-Soloist, rely heavily on these band pass filters and this is the reason why it is so difficult to duplicate these presets unless you have a modular synth that contains exact clones of these 3 filter banks.
Ya I get that. Tony is admittedly not nostalgic at all with old equipment. He really couldn't care less about replicating previous sounds...he's a man of convenience. Understandable, and if he's happy about it, then more power to him. Many listeners don't share his disregard for authenticity lol. As for the last tour, ya it was quite different. I remember listening to the over Europe live album, hearing his lead and going "...wtf?" XD ...I'm not an analog purist by any means, there's a use for digital and analog. That sound though... so sharp! Too much attack. Little to NO portamento, and an octave down for most parts! I won't complain too much though. It was a great show, and I'm very happy to have seen it in Sacramento, and to listen to it still! :)
@Ed Collins
Wow, Ed. How did this information come your way?
I noticed the Genesis tribute band 'Musical Box' uses the Arp pro soloist for most of the lead lines. With the right signal processing, a minimoog (with a preset machine) might sound good with Cinema Show and other tracks that used the soloist.
OK I will do it when I get a chance!
cant you just do all this with vst plugins?
Thank you very much!
You kinda sound like Chris Squire from Yes ^^
So you never heard of the new Mellotron….or Moog?
very interesting, thank you!
Tony never used that first sound during the 70s...ever...
You should go with the M4000D by Resch, it's better constructed and much much more quick at loading each of the 100 sounds that come in bundle.
Watch our channel with PFM riff :)
Los efectos del órgano son esos, pero hay que ajustar el timbre
Lovely... thanks (y)
The Lamb piano sound was a Yamaha CP-70, more an electric piano than an acoustic one. No chorus.