As a former Ford dealer tech ('79-'94) I was not familiar with this newer system. Thanks to this awesome video, I am now. Thanks so much for sharing this vital information!
If the commanded output can change at any time, it would be better to take the voltage measurements across the alternator and the battery at the same time and then compare. Although this would require an Oscilloscope or two DMMs. The Ford B+ feed has two 12AWG fusible links in parallel, perhaps this was an attempt to increase the useful life of the fusible links? The real question though is what is the failure mode or a fusible link? If the link is completely severed than it is an open circuit, if it is partially melted it will present a higher resistance.
Further to the above question, and your comments in the video regarding scoped duty cycle in reverse, can i take it that the GENMON is negative duty cycle on my pico scope? From the values i am getting under loaded condition is 14% whereby i would of expected 85%. Thanks
Just realized you guys misspelled computer in your title Comptuter. Although it is a tutorial so it kind of fits. Great video though. I link to it often.
Thats a great explanation on the how it works & how it is different than standard charging system, but why on earth was it engineered this way. Whats the real benefit, other than having to take it back to dealer for service? It really can be so much simpler. Plus, all this high tech & then use crappy wires within the system that won't outlast other components? Whats the advantage here? .. see 1st assumption as of why above.
Randomly mk3 focus today voltage drops to 11.15v reported via forscan app and -6ah draw whilst running. No battery light. Vehicle now won't turn over battery 11.79v. Can I assume a reasonable course of action would be to attempt to pull smart change cable and see if fail safe kicks in and give me 13.8v before removing alternator and having it tested.
Great video, what if you unplug genmon and gencom from alternator and on idle is 12v but when revs it then is 14v, on idle everytime 12v not charge at all
Good Video - i'll ask - all this "One of a Kind Charging System" = to what? Create more billable hours for FORD dealers? To save .005 Miles Per Gallon by running the Alternator "Less" = really/are you kidding me! The drama from this vehicle is unbearable..2016 F150, 2.5L, 119k - needs a new alternator $700+ / my Nissans have run for over 200k Miles on the same alternator,.. Fond On Road Dead........
Seems to contradict what I am seeing after installing new alternator on 2003 Ford Expedition. GENCOM always displays a square wave typically around 8.6V, 60% duty cycle. GENMON shows around 8-9V DC return, no square wave. 14.2V at the battery. Connections between alternator and PCM check out at well under 0.5 ohms, no sign of wire chafing issues. PCM was swapped out, made no difference. OEM alternator was 2L7Z10346BA, replaced with Ultima R112019B. 1st replacement alternator showed a 170 Hz square wave. I thought it must be defective, returned and swapped. 2nd replacement alternator about the same result except 130 Hz square wave. So why a DC return on GENMON instead of a square wave?
All this started when my battery warning light kept coming on and off randomly and I got a "Check Charging System" message, scan code P0620. Tried 2 rebuilt, reprogrammed PCMs, no difference. First rebuilt alternator produced similar measurements except GENCOM frequency was 170 Hz, GENMON voltage 8.8 V. Here are my detailed measurements with the 2nd alternator: A. 3-pin connector detached from alternator, measured at PCM Key off, ohms to GND at PCM: GENCOM = 2.1k GENMON = 134k Key on, engine off: GENCOM = 8.7 V DC GENMON = 0.0 V DC BAT = 12.16 V Key on, engine on at idle: GENCOM = 8.6 V DC GENMON = 11.6 V DC BAT = 11.82 V After engine rev to 2500 RPM: BAT = 14.29 V
B. 3-pin connector attached to alternator, measured at PCM Key on, engine off: GENCOM = 8.7 V DC GENMON = 0.0 V DC BAT = 12.17 V Key on, engine on at idle: GENCOM = square wave, ~9 V Pk to Pk, 133 HZ, ~60% +cycle GENMON = 10.4 V DC BAT = 14.19 V Turn A/C on: GENCOM DC = 5.8 V GENMON = 10.3 V DC BAT = 14.12 V Turn headlights on: GENCOM DC = 4.9 V GENMON = 10.2 V DC BAT = 13.97 V
Here is what makes no sense to me, based on your presentation and REMY's: Why does GENMON show a DC voltage instead of a square wave, and only when the engine is running? I thought this voltage was supplied by the PCM, to be manipulated by the alternator.
Why did the GENCOM square wave show a radically different frequency from the 1st alternator to the 2nd allegedly identical alternator? I thought this was controlled by the PCM, but it looks as if it is being set by the alternator.
Why does GENCOM show an 8.7 V DC level with the engine off and the alternator disconnected? I thought the GENCOM voltage was supplied by the alternator, then manipulated by the PCM.
With the alternator disconnected, key on, engine off, I would expect to see a source voltage at GENMON, and no voltage at GENCOM. Instead I see the opposite.
Even so the system seems to be charging the battery OK, and I have not (yet) seen the battery warning light come on since installing the 2nd alternator. Expedition was made in July 2003, but wiring appears to match 2004 wiring diagram, with no fuse in #9 (ALT) fuse location even though 2003 handbook says there should be a 10 Amp fuse there. I am wondering if I might have a Group 2 system as described in this article? www.electricalrebuilders.org/techlib/tech_articles/ford_6g_regulators.pdf
@@stevenlord7362 It appears that you are looking for confirmation of what you already believe and not solutions. Stay in the student mode most of the time and you may possibly learn something. You are getting in your own way by trying to appear more knowledgeable than you really are. Writing a small book in the comments section along with your questions gave you away.
Don't understand why the 128hz freq. it's standard. So does this frequency change depending on charging systems parameters or is dependent on who made the alternator?
It is the 'happy' frequency for a specific regulator. Varying the Hz allows for different regulators to be used w/o the need for specific software in the ECM. ie., bosch, motorcraft, delco regulators could be swapped into a Motorcraft alternator without worrying about the regulator specifics.
Do you recommend motocraft or what because I put 2 in. 1st on battery light dim and did not see these tests. 2nd one did not get the 13 volts after disconnecting the plug. I do not want to keep doing it. 2.5 hours of labor.
The most unuseful charging system in the world. Exactly NO reason to complicate it that much. YOU ONLY NEED TO CHARGE A DAMN BATTERY!!! A lot of Ford's have a ton of problems because of this idiotic system. Ford in general is a crapy car. Stay way from them.
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This alternator is different,, Code for trash that no one can understand .. dead battery's because your alternator is confused..
This was the best explanation of a Ford Smart Charge that I've heard!
As a former Ford dealer tech ('79-'94) I was not familiar with this newer system. Thanks to this awesome video, I am now.
Thanks so much for sharing this vital information!
Absolutely phenomenal video. Tons of very, very useful information here.
Agreed 100%
Invaluable video! Many thanks for posting it for us DIY folks!
Agreed 100%
THIS IS THE BEST TECHNICAL EXPLANATION ABOUT THUS CHARGING SYSTEM I HAVE HEARD. THANKS FOR SHARING
Thanks, Joel! Glad you found it helpful!
Regardless of the complaints , thanks for the info. It has been enlightening
Thanks for the video. Im a non tech dummy and I've taken useful information from this presentation.
Priceless ,what a material what a presenter, Thank u Thank u very much.
If the commanded output can change at any time, it would be better to take the voltage measurements across the alternator and the battery at the same time and then compare. Although this would require an Oscilloscope or two DMMs. The Ford B+ feed has two 12AWG fusible links in parallel, perhaps this was an attempt to increase the useful life of the fusible links? The real question though is what is the failure mode or a fusible link? If the link is completely severed than it is an open circuit, if it is partially melted it will present a higher resistance.
great video.
Just found this and is great so informative, thank you
Incredible video! Thanks so much for sharing
Great Video and very informative, 1 question on duty cycle - as they are ground switched, should the duty cycle be reversed when scoping the signals?
Further to the above question, and your comments in the video regarding scoped duty cycle in reverse, can i take it that the GENMON is negative duty cycle on my pico scope? From the values i am getting under loaded condition is 14% whereby i would of expected 85%. Thanks
Just realized you guys misspelled computer in your title Comptuter. Although it is a tutorial so it kind of fits.
Great video though. I link to it often.
Would like to know why Ford decided they had to do this, but I liked the informative video.
AFAIK it’s to do with fuel emissions.
Thats a great explanation on the how it works & how it is different than standard charging system, but why on earth was it engineered this way. Whats the real benefit, other than having to take it back to dealer for service? It really can be so much simpler. Plus, all this high tech & then use crappy wires within the system that won't outlast other components? Whats the advantage here? .. see 1st assumption as of why above.
Randomly mk3 focus today voltage drops to 11.15v reported via forscan app and -6ah draw whilst running. No battery light. Vehicle now won't turn over battery 11.79v. Can I assume a reasonable course of action would be to attempt to pull smart change cable and see if fail safe kicks in and give me 13.8v before removing alternator and having it tested.
Great video, what if you unplug genmon and gencom from alternator and on idle is 12v but when revs it then is 14v, on idle everytime 12v not charge at all
Good Video - i'll ask - all this "One of a Kind Charging System" = to what?
Create more billable hours for FORD dealers?
To save .005 Miles Per Gallon by running the Alternator "Less" = really/are you kidding me!
The drama from this vehicle is unbearable..2016 F150, 2.5L, 119k - needs a new alternator $700+ / my Nissans have run for over 200k Miles on the same alternator,.. Fond On Road Dead........
Is it possible to get training manuals and or booklets. Thanks Mike R.
Seems to contradict what I am seeing after installing new alternator on 2003 Ford Expedition. GENCOM always displays a square wave typically around 8.6V, 60% duty cycle. GENMON shows around 8-9V DC return, no square wave. 14.2V at the battery. Connections between alternator and PCM check out at well under 0.5 ohms, no sign of wire chafing issues. PCM was swapped out, made no difference. OEM alternator was 2L7Z10346BA, replaced with Ultima R112019B. 1st replacement alternator showed a 170 Hz square wave. I thought it must be defective, returned and swapped. 2nd replacement alternator about the same result except 130 Hz square wave. So why a DC return on GENMON instead of a square wave?
All this started when my battery warning light kept coming on and off randomly and I got a "Check Charging System" message, scan code P0620. Tried 2 rebuilt, reprogrammed PCMs, no difference. First rebuilt alternator produced similar measurements except GENCOM frequency was 170 Hz, GENMON voltage 8.8 V.
Here are my detailed measurements with the 2nd alternator:
A. 3-pin connector detached from alternator, measured at PCM
Key off, ohms to GND at PCM: GENCOM = 2.1k GENMON = 134k
Key on, engine off: GENCOM = 8.7 V DC GENMON = 0.0 V DC BAT = 12.16 V
Key on, engine on at idle: GENCOM = 8.6 V DC GENMON = 11.6 V DC BAT = 11.82 V
After engine rev to 2500 RPM: BAT = 14.29 V
B. 3-pin connector attached to alternator, measured at PCM
Key on, engine off: GENCOM = 8.7 V DC GENMON = 0.0 V DC BAT = 12.17 V
Key on, engine on at idle: GENCOM = square wave, ~9 V Pk to Pk, 133 HZ, ~60% +cycle
GENMON = 10.4 V DC BAT = 14.19 V
Turn A/C on: GENCOM DC = 5.8 V GENMON = 10.3 V DC BAT = 14.12 V
Turn headlights on: GENCOM DC = 4.9 V GENMON = 10.2 V DC BAT = 13.97 V
Here is what makes no sense to me, based on your presentation and REMY's:
Why does GENMON show a DC voltage instead of a square wave, and only when the engine is running? I thought this voltage was supplied by the PCM, to be manipulated by the alternator.
Why did the GENCOM square wave show a radically different frequency from the 1st alternator to the 2nd allegedly identical alternator? I thought this was controlled by the PCM, but it looks as if it is being set by the alternator.
Why does GENCOM show an 8.7 V DC level with the engine off and the alternator disconnected? I thought the GENCOM voltage was supplied by the alternator, then manipulated by the PCM.
With the alternator disconnected, key on, engine off, I would expect to see a source voltage at GENMON, and no voltage at GENCOM. Instead I see the opposite.
Even so the system seems to be charging the battery OK, and I have not (yet) seen the battery warning light come on since installing the 2nd alternator.
Expedition was made in July 2003, but wiring appears to match 2004 wiring diagram, with no fuse in #9 (ALT) fuse location even though 2003 handbook says there should be a 10 Amp fuse there.
I am wondering if I might have a Group 2 system as described in this article?
www.electricalrebuilders.org/techlib/tech_articles/ford_6g_regulators.pdf
@@stevenlord7362 It appears that you are looking for confirmation of what you already believe and not solutions. Stay in the student mode most of the time and you may possibly learn something. You are getting in your own way by trying to appear more knowledgeable than you really are. Writing a small book in the comments section along with your questions gave you away.
Can you force the battery to charge by turning the headlights heated screens on etc? (Ford)
Don't understand why the 128hz freq. it's standard.
So does this frequency change depending on charging systems parameters or is dependent on who made the alternator?
It is the 'happy' frequency for a specific regulator. Varying the Hz allows for different regulators to be used w/o the need for specific software in the ECM. ie., bosch, motorcraft, delco regulators could be swapped into a Motorcraft alternator without worrying about the regulator specifics.
Do you recommend motocraft or what because I put 2 in. 1st on battery light dim and did not see these tests. 2nd one did not get the 13 volts after disconnecting the plug. I do not want to keep doing it. 2.5 hours of labor.
So did you figure it out?
I think it's the dashboard. Cleaned it, battery lights almost always on. The ground cable is also a little crappy.
The most unuseful charging system in the world. Exactly NO reason to complicate it that much. YOU ONLY NEED TO CHARGE A DAMN BATTERY!!! A lot of Ford's have a ton of problems because of this idiotic system. Ford in general is a crapy car. Stay way from them.
This alternator is different,, Code for trash that no one can understand .. dead battery's because your alternator is confused..
Do away with this crap & run a one wire alternator.