Why do horn players have TERRIBLE rhythm? | Q+A
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2024
- Answering your burning musical questions!
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Adam, how can I get better at following a metronome?
Why this pinned comment says "15 hours ago" when this uploaded just not even an hour?
So a question for your next Q+A vid: What do you think of Gareth Coker's work?
Adam will pick up the Sitar before voluntarily playing a guitar.
I am currently learning to play the piano, totally by myself. Its kind of on a hobby basis. My learning curve has stagnated a little bit so i was wondering if piano lessons worth opening my wallet for? If i want to take my piano playing to the next step, maybe? Idk, any opinion is much appreciated.
Greetings from Norway
"Why do horn player suck?"
You can't blow if you don't suck
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
True on several levels
@@ziruini5071 hey your profile pictures are the same color
Best comment
Pause
Came for the horn roasts. Upset about the guitar roasts. 10/10
Bass > guitar
A common accident injury in Hell.
@@srirachanoodles6914 Gutair has 2 more string so it must be 50% better though right?
@Cryonic Family ????????????
Lynnlo
I will report you to Davie504
How dare you whip out a nicer guitar than mine, insult it, and put it away. Give me your guitar, Adam, or I will cry.
*Insert .jpg of arthur clenching his fist here* I was so pissed!
*Cry*
@@TheUnderscore_ Don’t reproduce.
One of the reasons horn players tend to play behind is because the notes literally take longer to sound than on a lot of other instruments, due to the mechanics and the actual time it takes the air to flow through and make a sound.
This is why conversely, guitarists tend to play AHEAD of the beat. It takes a very short amount of time for the pick to make the string sound. For these reasons you will find that each instrument has a tendency toward where it is placed on the beat. Having control over this small difference takes a lot of practice - or even to hear these small differences.
Other examples may be upright bass tending to be behind, where snare drum is vice-versa. Have fun with your metronomes!
Then they should study the sound attack for so many years and use it.
Exactly
Upright players understand this and play on top of the best knowing it will sound ‘later’. Also the tone of an upright is not very ‘attacky’.
I think of horn sections and see Tower of Power and Chicago. Their sections were always grooving, but relaxed during solos. It’s all about emphasis, on time or something else.
My 2 cents
Randall J Clay exactly! Players have to compensate for their respective instruments
I call BS on this lame excuse, I was taught to play (trombone) on time by anticipating all that mechanical stuff.
objection!
Lucky Chops 3 minutes respond.
fancy seeing you here
Everywhere Cubes more like full heart fancy seeing you here HA
feel free to kill me at anytime
Lol I feel attacked by this video title
I'm starting sax, been playing drums and bass.
Will get back to you in 10 years when I'm able to play a simple melody and be very offended.
The black desk gives illusion of your hands going outside of the frame, giving sort of depth perspective.
I thought the exact same thing!! He should put a black bar at the top of the frame to complete the illusion.
@Cryonic Family ¿que?
Its true! lol
very cool effect
What has been seen..
I’m so glad it wasn’t just me that saw that 😂. I swear I thought he did some lens perspective fix in editing and forgot to zoom in until I saw his hands move through it lol.
As a guitarist and horn player I would like to say, I’m very sorry.
"How can anybody hear that and say "this is what I wanna do with my life""
I started guitar just to impress a girl and stayed for the dadrock, you're just not dumb enough, Adam.
So funny how many people start to impress girls :D
Bass is ireelevant with 8+ strings, anyway. 🤭
Crying at my desk at the part where you talked about differently abled musicians. A bout of shingles ruined what could've been a long career of playing piano (I have ulnar nerve damage from how severe it was) and now pneumonia is almost robbing me of my once very enviable singing voice but you're right! There's so much available to me with digital audio engineering and I'm still very good at harmony. I don't want to give up, almost did, I've been watching you for a very long time and it gave me a lot of hope to keep going. Thank you
Hope your music adventure works out!! Sorry to hear that, but it's awesome that you stay motivated :)
Yes, please use your ear and the musicality that you possess in whatever way works for you. As much as music is fundamentally abstract, I have to imagine that your particular relationship with it is unique and compelling, and I’m sure you’ll find a way to express that. I wish you good travels!
All the best to you!
Have fun, hope you get to keep on enjoying music
Sorry to hear all of that. It’s awesome to know that you’re not giving up though. As music technology continues to progress you’ll find yourself with more and more amazing options for making music though, and I’m sure you will/are putting out wonderful work for the world to hear. We live in a wonderful age where pretty much anyone, no matter who they are, can make wonderful music. And it’s a blessing because everyday someone somewhere is working on a new song that the world needs to hear.
Most communities of musicians are literally passing around the same $20
Fisher Sexton I don’t accept paper money from sax players.
@@counterfit5 yea it's called pimping if you profit off of sax ...
..playing ?
This thumbnail gave me copyist anxiety
I really like you guys
Omg 8 bit big band I love u guys ur guy's music is some of the only I listen too as much and really like to share
NOT ALL styles of music are RHYTHIM BASED. SOME are more MELODIC than rhytmic.
@moserbite You're spamming this everywhere yet every single time you spelled "rhythm" wrong. TWICE.
I’m offensive and I find this horn player.
I had a stroke reading this
May lol
"He a little confused, but he got the spirit!"
He's a little confused, but he's got the spirit.
He's a little spirit, but he got the confused
13:59 Thanks a bunch Adam! My dream is that the Real Book as we know it now, defining this generation's "standard repertoire" will someday be replete with video game tunes... that'll be the day!
@insaneintherainmusic do all youtuber musicians just watch each other? Lol
There would have to be at least 5 sinnoh songs on there
Loloco _ I think so.
duude imagine sitting in at a jam session and like hearthome city is called and everybody pulls out their real books
Cakerton Jubilife City as a funk
Horn players-Brian has betrayed us. He fell prey to Adam's ignorant favoritism of bass over objectively more desirable instruments. Please forgive us. #hornplayers4ever
trumpets rise up
Just so you know, I disliked your comment, and I dislike you as a person.
Yeet
@@samwhite7693 nope
Horn players are never late, we play precisely when we want too. Everyone else is just ahead.
Also slightly confused: by horn did you mean instruments where you have to blow through it? Or did you mean the actual Horn as in French Horn?
True. If you have no control, you are always ahead
I'm assuming they mean it in the jazz sense, where horn means any wind instrument.
As a classical musician who also dislikes inaccurate terminology, this definition irritates me. A horn should refer to a french horn or a sax horn, not to be confused with a sax, which is not a horn.
But then thinking about it, I would generally only refer to the tenor horn aka the alto horn as a horn colloquially out of the sax horns, and I would refer to the flugelhorn and the baritone horn by their names.
But then as I normally play in concert bands aka wind bands aka wind orchestras (not to be confused with concert orchestras), I would usually lump the baritones in with the euphoniums so as not to get confused with the baritone sax.
And then you could argue that the cor anglais/English horn is a horn, considering it has "horn" in its name despite the fact it is a member of the oboe family, so maybe an oboe is a horn too, and if an oboe is a horn, then maybe calling all wind instruments horns IS somewhat accurate.
And then I remember we are musicians which means that everyone disagrees on the correct terminology to the point where there is no real standard, and I should know this very well considering I own an alto flute which has historically also been referred to as an tenor or bass flute despite the fact that it is a 4th lower than the concert flute (called the tenor flute during the Renaissance), a 2nd/3rd lower than the flute d'amour (aka the tenor flute), and a 5th higher than a bass flute (aka a tenor flute) which is a 4th/5th higher than a contra-alto/contralto flute (aka a bass flute). So basically 4 flutes have been called tenor flutes at various times, of which two of those have been also called bass flutes, along with a third bass flute that is otherwise called a contralto flute. This also ignores the fact that many people/languages refer to recorders as flutes, and the recorder family ALSO has alto, tenor, bass, etc. variants.
Tl, dr: welcome to my TED mental breakdown of inconsistent terminology in music.
BambiTrout, yes, this both made complete sense to me yet now my brain hurts. I applaud you for your ability to confuse yet be concise
@@BambiTrout The classical music use whereby horn means French horn is a modern invention. Fifty years ago it wasn't in use.
@@josephruby2981 Oh, please. imslp.org/wiki/Horn_Concerto_in_E-flat_major%2C_K.447_(Mozart%2C_Wolfgang_Amadeus) (note the holograph manuscript heading, reading "Concerto per il Corno Solo". This goes back to ~1785, and it was written for a natural horn - basically a valveless French horn. The part for the solo instrument is labelled "corno principale". There are plenty of earlier examples too.
The IHS 1971 definition (which incidentally has no authority to dictate vocabulary, and is a _recommendation_ ) refers to all types of horn, not specifically to the modern, valved "French" horn.
Chords were my introduction to the idea of double sharps/flats, and I think it can provide context. If you learn the theoretical structure of chords, then the idea of a double sharp makes more sense. For example, an augmented chord is a major triad with a raised/sharp 5th. For C major, that’s C-E-G#. But if you have a major triad where the fifth is already a sharp note, such as B major, then it makes more sense to turn the F# into a F##, since the note names/intervals still stay the same (first, third, fifth).
yeah chord spelling is important not just for reading but functionally
"Why do horn players have TERRIBLE rhythm"
brought to you by: RHYTHM SECTION GANG
Another reason: it takes noticeably longer to get a 4.5 or 12 foot long air column moving with your breath than it does to pluck a string or press a key or hit something with stick.
Came here to say this. Would be curious to learn Adam's response to that.
@@AalbertTorsius This is it, and I'm late to the party.
Makes sense but like those it make horns objectively more off beat
I think that’s partially to be inferred from what they meant by anticipating the beat but are used to running off visual cues for rhythm
So, should a composer or arranger who know this, write the horns score according to each flow rate of each different instrument in that section, or simply the music in his/her head (or both)?
the part about it taking a generation of people dying before an art form is recognized reminded me of learning about printmaking in the fine art tradition. it took a loooong time for printmaking to have a place in fine art and that feels kind of similar to the way that people feel about film/video game music!
0:54 "is this like a sitcom?" he says, as i am binge watching his Q&A vids on my couch, drawing and sketching while laughing at his one liners in the background.
"Sweet Gsus" would be an amazing name for an album.
Type that into Google and be amazed.
But was it the chord that pleased the lord?
@@ganaraminukshuk0 I heard it's a secret
My friend Jesus is nicknamed Gsus, he also is an amazing pianist
I dunno, looks sus
Why do horn players suck?
"Probably a lot of reasons" xD
Seriously, they really blow.
Yeah we kinda do ngl but I’m still upset about it lmao
@Cryonic Family Okay, thank you for the synopsis. What does that have to do with his comment?
@@TheNutshaq I kinda like what they blooooow, so I am cool with you...Practice, Practice, Practice! I don't even play Bass, I play Voice, Guitar, and Violin. I have tried Trombone, fun but not easy!
At least we all blow, together
5:30 I always knew that stuff like KNOWER and Louis’ solo stuff was right up Adam’s alley!
I love how after 8 months still nobody got the reference lol
I think the "horn players always being behind" thing probably has something to do with air having to travel through the instrument to produce a sound. As opposed to a string where you pluck a string or hit a key and immediately get a vibration. That's my hypothesis. Thoughts?
Thats exactly what I was thinking too.
Im pretty sure its the anwser.
Yep! My horn is a double horn (meaning it’s in F and Bb), they can be around 20-25 feet long and it takes a while for the air to travel through the instrument. Some horns have more tub length than standard tubas! it also doesn’t help that the bell faces backwards- with a trumpet or trombone the noise travels towards the audience, with the French horn the sound travels away from the audience and bounces off of the wall behind you so there is a delay of when the noise “hits”your ears.
@@ohnoourtableitsbroken9572That may be the total length of tubing, but you are never going to have more than 16.7ft in use at one time. That's the F side, with all 3 valves down. That's still longer than the open length of 84% of the tuba sizes (French C=8ft, Euphonium=9ft, F=12ft, Eb=13.5ft, C=16ft, Bb=18ft).
3:51 "How do I make my guitar solos sound less like guitar solos?"
Adam Neely: What's up SLAPpers
£££££££££
NOT ALL styles of music are RHYTHIM BASED. SOME are more MELODIC than rhytmic.
"Smells like cotton candy, but tastes like pure sugar..." Cotton Candy _is_ pure sugar.
It's just liquid cotton candy
"Protip" if anyone like me has little self control regarding sugar and has maybe considered getting cotton candy machine "just for fun" or whatever excuse is being generated in head:
DO NOT, I repeat, _DO NOT_ get cotton candy machine. It's too good, too easy, too fluffy, and, as you say, too sugar. Basically legal crack.
@@Bisquick Oh god
Jason Becker doesn't have the use of anything but his eyes, and he's still composing music. He was Ozzy's guitarist...imagine how hard that transition was for him. My grandfather died from ALS, the same condition Jason Becker has, so I'm glad he's been able to make something positive out of what he was afflicted with, understanding that he's still got hope while he still has breath. It's so hard to retain that when everything is working against you.
I, myself, play 7-string guitar (I'll forgive your jokes), and I'm a 49-year-old woman who was afflicted with severe arthritis at a really young age. This often comes with tendinitis, carpal tunnel, RSIs, polyneuropathy, muscle spasms, you name it. It ain't fun, but if I don't play guitar I'm going to completely lose the use of my hands. It helps me keep my range of motion. And, believe it or not, I'm getting to be damn good at it even though I've only taken it seriously for a couple of years (it helps I actually have a rock star for a guitar teacher :)). I've learned that even with the limitations I have, and even believing I would never be any good, I'm actually good (I said good, not a virtuoso).
Most of our limitations are self-imposed, even when they're not. We cave to things we shouldn't because we've been taught to believe things aren't possible. Or we have people telling us they aren't. Never listen to naysayers unless they're actively attempting to save you from walking across a busy highway.
So as soon as you put up a clip of gene in an apartment session I went down a tear filled rabbit-hole and watched a dozen or so recordings. That sort of intimate conglomeration that produces such a raw and energetic feel is just... so good. Saw you in a couple!
Cool trivia (trivium?):
Paul Wittgenstein the pianist was the brother of Ludwig Wittgenstein the philosopher.
You're right, that was cool trivia!
Definetely had to check that.
@Cryonic Family I see what you did there.. (I think?)
Mike Crowley While Ludwig Wittgenstein denounced all philosophical problems as misinterpretations of language outside their 'language games', Paul Wittgenstein denounced all musical problems with the phrase 'just play the notes on the page lol'
i was wondering if they were related
Fletcher: Were you rushing or dragging?!
Horn players: Dragging...
Fletcher: So you DO know the difference!
Ok, but just for kicks, I still want to hear what kind of sound the horn players will make as try to duck a piece of furniture hurled at them :))
Hi Adam. Please don't take this the wrong way, but in the A6#5/#9/11 chord you played a G instead of an F. The #5 is F. It doesn't, however, change the excellent advice of resolving the upper notes chromatically. You do a great job in general, and I enjoy watching your very educational and stimulating videos.
Yes! I was wondering if someone would point that out. I think it's an inattention mistake though 😊
he played an F# on his left hand and G on the right, I think sevens are implied in these chords even though not in the name.
the lower the note you play on sax, the greater the latency as the sound needs to travel fom low down on the sax to your ear. Based on this, soprano will be fastest response, alto, Tenor, then Bari. Sound pressure level from horns is also "much" higher than sax, so hearing sax over trumpets and Bone is really hard!
I feel personally attacked just by the title D: ~sad trombone noises~
As a fellow trombonist, can relate *more sad trombone noises*
I add my ~sad trombone noises~ to yours.
Don't worry you don't suck at rhythm as much as us string players
*blames it on the acoustic guitarist*
I played with amazing (unknown) horn sections, having said that, back in university it was at times next to impossible to play a hit with the bones, you just never knew when it would happen 😅
I would imagine horn players' timing would have something to do with the fact that horns in general have a slow and somewhat imprecise attack. Not only does that lend itself to the player maybe not having the best sense of timing but it also accounts for the listener's perception of poor timing even if the notes are played exactly 'on grid.'
This. I have to literally anticipate everything I play. And then some, because I sit at the back of an orchestra and sound takes time to travel up the fron of the stage. If it's a super low pedal that responds extremely slowly I could be anticipating that articulation by any entire beat, if it's an upbeat tempo.
I actually got reprimanded by an incredibly famous violinist, who came back to play a concerto with my school, because I wasn't playing with her. I couldn't play "with" her sound, one because it's hard to hear a violin facing the wrong direction over my own trombone, and two because I was literally always late to her. If I anticipated enough so my sound caught up to hers, I wouldn't be playing with her, I'd be playing despite her. I wound up being in a weird middle-ground of just not sounding right. Sadness :-(
I must have picked this up naturally like a lot of other things, because when i write for horns, I purposely play around a lot with when they come in, particularly in slow passages, of course. Sometimes I want them late, but sometimes I also want them very early.
As a horn player, and going off of the imprecise attack, we also have to get the air moving all the way through the horn in order it produce sound. Too much air too fast, you sound loud and obnoxious. Too little and it sounds like a nervous mistake.
@@chipmonkey7266 I think there's a common myth that you have to 'fill' the horn with air. Not sure if that's what you mean here, but I've definitely heard that said. The sound is made by vibrating the air column that's already inside the instrument. Think about it: if you had to fill a saxophone with air to get a note, you couldn't play a contrabass saxophone at all. You couldn't exhale that much air in one breath.
On the question of horn players having a poor sense of rhythm, I have a few ideas myself as a horn player. The first thing that's most obvious is that horns play melodic lines, and often aren't the ones laying down the groove/pocket for the group, which is usually done by the rhythm section. When you play a melodic instrument, you can sometimes focus so much on playing the right notes with good tone and intonation, that the rhythm gets left behind. I know that when I'm improvising, especially in jazz, it's easy to focus on catching all the chord changes and trying to play stuff that's "hip", and as a result the rhythmic feel suffers.
What's rhythm? Melody is king. They can tap out 1,2,3,4 all they want but I'm play quarter, quarter, eighth, either, quarter or whatever the melody is... I have no conception of beat. If they're a melody then that's what I'm hearing and moving with. The visuals from the conductor help, but we can barely hear your puny rhythm instruments. How are we even supposed to hear your bass while playing our horn?
@@zvxcvxcz bruh
Keep hammering me with the curiosity stream / nebula ad, I'm almost ready to subscribe.
After that last video I was expecting a 45 minute teardown of horn players, and I was living for it and kinda scared.
🙂🙂
@Cryonic Family Stop.
Imagine being a guitar and being despised by your virtuoso owner
At least he plays the bass, as Gsus intended.
@Cryonic Family I don't understand this comment. Why do you spam it over this comment section? Yes, I know who this guy is; I'm watching his videos.
Thanks for answering my question Adam! I've definitely been enjoying the video game music community in UA-cam. Super underrated imo
Love how you explain music. Thanks for all your work Adam!
12:57 "Why isn't video game music considered real music?"
Interesting question. In Germany we have the distinction between "U" and "E" music, the "U" stands for "Unterhaltung" (entertainment), the "E" for "ernst" (serious). And every classical piece is categorized as "E-Musik", every non-classical piece as "U-Musik". I really don't know why that is and it is really silly, and I always get the feeling that people like Lebrecht take themselves far too serious. "Oh no, an orchestra plays music that was written to accompany moving images! How atrocious!"
Dude, pull that stick out of your arse.
This distinction slowly murdered classical music over the course of the 20th century, along with the Germanization of European classical music education. Instead of an entire tradition of musicians across a continent making music for all sorts of reasons over the span of centuries, we must study the Great Works of the Great Men who played Serious Music, render their music in the most unpleasant and workmanlike way possible to divest it of all its entertaining qualities, and invent mathematically perfect types of music that provide no entertainment at all and sound like a supercomputer's impression of a cat walking across a piano.
@@tankermottind ouf. you're not wrong
@@tankermottind what are you even talking about when referring to classical music? Music from them classical and romantic period? Music for orchestra? Either way none of your statements make sense as the period is over by a long time (only lives on in film music) and the music for ororchetsra has changed a lot in the last 100 years. It's not they fault of Beethoven that new orchestral music is often not as popular anymore.
@@Apfelstrudl European art music from ~1500 to today, the default thing people are talking about when they say "classical music" in a Western culture. And you knew that, but you're an obtuse pedant who wanted to score points.
@@tankermottind that's not classical music's fault inherently, it's our more modern cultures fault. Classical music wasn't meant to be stiff and proper really until beethoven.
Inca Kola is real life 'Slurm' from Futurama
"Smells like cotton candy. Tastes like pure sugar"
I mean, those attributes are nearly inseparable.
You're too smart for most of us Neely! Thank you for sharing your knowledge
Us: Why do horn players suck?
Adam: guitarists suck
Q: Why do horn players suck? A: They don't suck, they blow!
(I AM KIDDING)
"sometimes my genius is almost frightening"
No, but what tune will you be playing?
No you're not
what if you suck when you blow?
@@davidbonar5190 Time to hang up your high heels and go back to secretarial school D~
3:58
"aaaaa why does anybody play this stupid instrument"
The war continues, and there is no end to be seen yet
Instrument wars are annoying I agree, and theyre not just guitar and bass
Theyre also trumpets & trombones vs flutes & clarinets,
Or, violin vs viola
Our music community has became a pile of childish people w/ ego
@@ItsMe-ic5oc for real! I'm a classical musician and everyone wants to start music wars. Why cant we just enjoy the beauty of music and our own instruments!?
"Pollo a la brasa and Inca Kola" sweeter words have rarely been spoken.
Seeing the Aoe2 question and you answering it came so out of the blue, and I was so happy about it. Norway wins no matter what.
It's been so long since Adam used to make his old bass lessons videos that I forgot this channel used to be an anti guitar BASS channel. Oh the memories.
>The note names must be in alphabetical order
Me, a European: A H C D E F G
*You, a musician from a German-speaking country.
Not every European country uses this horrible H=B and B=Bb rule.
@@duVillage no I'm not from a German speaking country but its the best rule tbh, BACH all the way!
@Salim Sivaad so the Aeolian mode predates the Ionian? You sure about that?
They use it in Finland as well and it is currently not a German-speaking country. And the H makes no sense.
Only used ,until 1990, in northern European countries were the gothic letter B resembles a H.
Hey Adam, thanks for always putting out interesting and well-researched content. I got a question here for next Q&A:
Do you have any tips for transcribing really dense music with many voices? Even with the use of spectrum analyzers and high/low-pass filters, polychords and upper harmonics have been causing a real headache for me.
The best advice for playing in time I've got as a horn player was to anticipate the beat. There is a lag between when you start your air and when the note actually sounds. This becomes even more of a problem on low brass ,like my instrument trombone, because of how much more tubing there is for the sound pulse to travel through. Grate video and you have been one of my inspirations for getting back on practicing and getting back into jazz.
The joke I've told for years is:
What is an ascending G C D chord? Gsus is risen.
What if the key signature has 2 sharps? Gsus is risen in D.
On playing when not able bodied: I come from the opposite angle, I started out on DAWs and eventually got really tired of relying on computers after spending my life in front of them.
So I got into guitar just two years ago and it turns out I have some form of early onset trigger finger, after picking for a bit the ligaments of my hands go stiff and achey, I found it very disheartening.
However, there are ways for anyone in a similar situation who doesn't want to just compose: Even though my fingers aren't able to be so agile, I can play strum alright and any percussive instruments, from drums to piano that rely more on hand motion work alright! I hope this helps someone.
Well the main thing is that playing fast or technically proficient isn’t a requirement for music. Slow songs and solos often have a better sense of musicality and sensitivity than fast solos.
@@THVEssays yes I think that is very true, and if it needs something more, music is a very good communal activity so (excepting worldwide contagions) you can often have others help fill the gaps!
This might be sick, but I've often thought about what instrument I could play if I lost the use of one or both of my hands (I have had some kind of RSI, so it's not that much of a stretch). Natural trumpet was the only one I could think of that didn't require hands at all, but I hear it is very difficult!
If working in a DAW or composing does not scratch that itch to *play*or *perform*, there are always instruments out there, and ways to play them, that conform to almost any ability. True, most commonly played instruments are fine-tuned to fit the most common people, but there are a lot of interesting niche instruments and instrument builders out there. If electronic music is something you are into, physical analog electronic instruments are almost arbitrarily variable and can be set up to your every need. Tuned percussion might also be an interesting field to consider as there is an amazing amount of variety that can be combined in so many new and interesting ways.
just learn how to adjust and play through it. to do otherwise is making excuses
As to the question, 'why are horn players always late'
Differently than percussion, piano and guitar players, who physically strike their instruments in order to produce a sound, horn players must blow air through their instruments, the air, simultaneously passing through a vibrating membrane (lips or read - exception here is flute). Although relatively minute, there is a time lag between the blowing into the instrument and the sound resonating. Therefor, wind instrument players must in fact anticipate the timing of every note they play. Most professionally trained players have mastered this so the 'time lag' is non- existent. The act and timing of breathing and blowing for Phrasing and between notes and phrases, is a more complex matrix than a percussive instrument, which does not require breathing in and blowing out I. Order to produce the sound.
The AoEII question was such a delightful surprise. Love these.
"why would anybody hear that and think 'thats what i want to do with my life'?"
*looks sadly at my guitars*
Don't worry, at least you're heard, bass players are not 😂
It's not so bad. You could be a tuba player.
Plus it's a joke...and if you're not willing to put in the work to sound good, then Adam is absolutely right. Guitars sound like shit if the player is not great.
Absolutely did NOT expect to hear references to the AoE2 scene here. o.O
My worlds be collidin'.
Same!
Same! I did a double-take when he said that
@@brrrrrg92 yep, couldn't trust my ears at first too
where it is??
@@rotkvan 15:44
Excellent video, as usual! I've read that the double sharp sign is a simplification of the original version which was like one sharp sign superimposed on another but turned 45 degrees, making sort of a blurry, double-vision X.
"play a solo just on one string" oh rad, my somewhat questionable technique is suddenly in fashion? sweeeeeeet
"Why would anyone play guitar?" Is this the universe bringing balance opposite Glenn Fricker?
@@grievuspwn4g3 I do think that's also a consequence of the genre he works within generally having less of an emphasis on really honing the bass skills seen in jazz or soul, etc. A lot of amateur rock bassists do just chill on root notes to let the guitar take centre stage.
The real answer is that horn players - ie brass/wind players - have much more physical labor involved in their articulation and tone. The entire face and respiratory system of a brass player has to get involved just to make a sound. It's much less efficient than plucking a string, or striking a key or drum, when it comes to rhythmic accuracy and speed.
ah yes, the REAL answer 😒
ah yes, the REAL answer 😒
There's also the fact that there's more than one space of attack, ie most wind instruments also involve moving around of keys and/or valves.
ah yes, the REAL answer 😒
ah yes, the REAL answer 😒
Nobody:
The subtitles: The porn players
They ain't wrong
@@_BirdOfGoodOmen 🤔
As a Peruvian, I was very surprised and happy to see you give Inca Kola such a good rating
Really did not expect to hear an AOE2 esports reference in this vid. wow :D
I was pleasantly surprised!
me too
Adam is Fatslob and he walls in so he can practice in peace.
Blows low Bb...
2.5 seconds - Weird multiphonic, then settles on note after big squark.
either that or 6 seconds of a crecendo until the low Bb is at a decent volume.
As a longtime peruvian fan of yours i am both amazed at the fact that you answered that question and also your perfect knowledge about pollo a la brasa paired with incacola. Damn you Adam is there something You don't know? :)
We all have our pros and cons as musicians. Using myself as an example--I'm a pretty good singer, and generally a good guitar player when it comes to songwriting and composition. I can sing and play just fine in a simple solo performance. Put me on stage with a band, however, and my singing and playing start to cancel each other out. I'm one of those unfortunate people who has to be either/or. I can either sing with a band or play with a band, because I seem to be constitutionally incapable of doing both at the same time.
10:01 I have ALWAYS wondered where the sharp / flat and note naming selection comes from in different keys. Now it makes so much sense, just use all the available letters in order and aim for the least number of accidentals, duh! Thanks man! :)
I think we (horn players) suck rhythmically because: 1) we tend to embellish and improvise maybe TOO much; 2) we focus more on sounding "good" instead of playing in-the-pocket; 3) tongueing/articulations/embouchure stamina at live gigs become unpredictable, so notes may come out slightly different and later than how we anticipated it; 4) we've been taught to be melodic since day 1, hence putting us into a sort of percussive role (horn lines, accented hits, etc) is a foreign feeling.
Put us in a situation where we solo, improvise or where we're the melody and I promise you we're on cruise-control. But rhythmically? Yeah, we suck. Srsly
There’s also response time. There’s a varying delay between starting the sound and the sound being heard by others. Said delay can grow in brass instruments depending on valves in use, and overall length of the instrument.
@@counterfit5 That's the first thing I thought off -- the latency. I was a little surprised that the Aberdeen guy didn't mention it.
Hurr durr, horns suck! 🙄
Ugh.
I enjoy Adam's channel for the most part; but I wonder if he has ever seriously tried to play a wind instrument? They are, fundamentally, in your own word, unpredictable. I play piano, poorly, but I do try; and while THAT is complexity on complexity, do you know what's nice? Every fucking time I plunk a chord, IT'S TUNED. Sometimes it's a relief to sit down and not have to worry about:
breath support
Posture affecting breath support
Attacking the note correctly
Sustaining an even tone
Adjusting embouchure constantly
And oh, yeah, PLAYING ON THE BEAT.
But these aren't excuses. I'm just trying to explain to others why there's more to horns than "lmao shitty horns, go away I am stringed instrument god." Of course we should learn to compensate for the unpredictability. It's half the struggle, and for me, half the fun. I have spent hours during COVID doing nothing BUT practicing intonation, and I've played for six years. When you get it right, a wind instrument becomes your voice. It becomes an extension of you, a part of you, in a way a guitar or bass or piano can never be.
I really don't like to stir up shit, but I just...got a sense of snobbery from this video that I don't normally feel when watching his other stuff. Between that and the guitar...c'mon. I know it was mostly a joke--was it a joke? I'm pretty sure it was. He must have a guitar for a reason.
I'm a musician, and I like ALL instruments. Yours, and yours too. Okay, maybe not trumpets. Just kidding. Saxes and trumpets are the O.G. jazz bromance.
Oh, look: Here's Rob Scallion trying to play a saxophone, failing almost completely, and having fun doing it without acting like a snob.
ua-cam.com/video/MwJIJLHXbxU/v-deo.html
Signed,
A saxophonist who doesn't bash your instrument just to feel better about mine.
@@NyanPoptartCat Who dissed? He had a subject matter expert answer that question.
@@jpabcede5016 Well, it's just the impression I got, and it certainly doesn't mean it's right. They probably WERE just joking; but "Why do horn players suck" (which wasn't even the original question) was answered by "Short answer: I don't know," so jokingly or not, said subject matter expert was essentially agreeing with him one way or the other. The question, worded in a different way, would have prompted a different reaction.
Maybe it was a self-effacing answer on the expert's part. Maybe I'm just defensive because there has always been snobbery against the saxophone, subtle and not-so-subtle, especially in the classical world, that persists to this day. For instance, there's a condition called "saxophone lung" that can affect you if you don't clean your horn well enough. Why isn't it called "clarinet lung" or "flute lung"? Clarinet players can get it too. You can even read an article about a clarinet player who got it and they still called it "saxophone lung." Okay, that was a tangent, but you get it.
Then he DOES diss the guitar. Maybe this is an Adam Neely in-joke that I don't know about. In that case, I get that! I'll diss the sax for fun because I play it and have the right to do so. Like, "How do you get two sopranos to play in tune? Shoot one of them." Maybe that was it.
I could be completely wrong about any or all of this. I actually think being wrong can be a good thing, because it means I learn something! So I'm happy to be better informed.
"So obviously, don't play guitar." Adam, have you been hanging out with Davie504 lately?
Yeah, it's pretty obvious.
On the video game music thing, I work for one of the biggest Orchestras in the world. Some of the most popular concerts we've ever done have been when we did a concert of music from the Final Fantasy video game series. They also had the best behaved audience. In their seats on time at exactly the right time, no waiting for stragglers. That never happens!
Dope, I was just rewatching your old Q&A's when I got the notification for this one!
Huh, Adam's an AoE2 fan. Here was me thinking he already had impeccable taste.
I know. As if I wasn't questioning my sexuality enough already.
@@1000GayOwls XD
The fact that no one except AoE2 players would get it made it all the funnier.
Snek snek snek
@@shaders3864 Facts, I don’t play it and I don’t get it
4:03 "How can anyone hear that, and not think: 'Stay a while, and listen!'?"
To this day the original Diablo score gives me chills. Video game music not real art... what?
About the horn players: If you listen to some salsa big bands from Cuba, you realise that they can be precise as hell. I think, it‘s because their timing is more „clave“ based. If you „just“ follow the groove it is more likely that you are a little beat late, but if everybody in the band is going with the clave (=key), they all are a huge rhythmsection!
Exactly, what is rhythm when you have melody?
DAW’s make it so that Jason Becker, someone who can’t move anything but his eyes, can compose beautiful music
15:33 Hey Adam, you make a good point about the DAW's- I'd like to shine a light on Jason Becker who has composed using just moving his eyes. Phenomenal.
The world needs more Adam Neely! You always leave me loving music that much more. Thanks, man!
So glad I was able to see the sungazer show in LA earlier this year. I was going to use this year to go out more (specifically shows or events) alone and not feel insecure about it.
Side note on video game music: would you ever review some video game music?I'm a fan of hollow knights music.
Hey man, as someone with epilepsy i just want to say i appreciate the warning. Real cool of you.
I have a question. How do you know when it is no longer on the screen if there is no audio cue to indicate? Do you just keep having a quick look now and again?
@@robertszynal4745 Having a little bleep when it ended would probably have been great to be honest. I'm not that sensitive so I'll just toss a quick glance at it.
There are people on the platform who'll just blast strobe light in your face without any warning so credit where credit is due.
Gonna mark this as the first time I bumped into an epileptic person. How rad.
I love that 90% of the time when Adam recommends a book, he also has the book. It’s not just some book he’s heard about or asked a friend for a recommendation on, he has it and I bet he’s read it.
Currently obsessed with your content. You're killing it; not that you need my endorsement.
My question (prompted by a recent lesson with one of my middle school band kids) is why does a piece that begins with an anacrusis traditionally end with an incomplete measure lacking the same duration as the anacrusis? I cannot find a satisfying answer anywhere online. Is this just a case of "well...that's just how we've always done it"?
Thank you for correcting your vertical/horizontal gaff, that briefly grated on me
Love how Adam smoothly slides his keyboard from under the table every time
How to not play solo that doesn't sound like a solo?
Ans: Fredrik Thordendal
I found the Unitar thing really interesting as Playing most of my leads only on one string was what a lot of people thought was a bad habit for me as an early player.
But now I primarily play a lot of fingerstyle and two-handed tapping in Math Rock bands, and I think that sort of one-string matrix has really helped me melodically, and it's helped me be really nimble up and down the neck.
Also I love Peruvian chicken so much.
Your channel is really helping my old self improve my guitar playing.
I learned one of the reasons why horn players are late due to the use of the tongue.
They accent with the tongue by closing the opening and opening it again to let air through.
It is logical to move the tongue on the beat, but if you do that you open the hole on the beat so the sound is late.
It takes time for the sound to go through the horn.
If the horn player wants the sound to be on time you need to tongue before the beat, which is kinda counter intuitive.
This is also why they tend to rush in orchestral music. Especially trumpets and flutes which tend to have more aggressive lines and a distinct tonguing system from other wind instruments.
As a former brass player, I would account for the short lag to peak volume by tonguing earlier. But you definitely hear that surging of sound after the beat in beginners or in very fast music. I've also been a drummer all my life so I'm accutely aware of how bad it can be.
@@DanielHatchman yeah. It's trickier when you get into double and triple tonguing, which trumpet and flutes do differently from most other wind instruments, so there's a certain velocity that builds up. Patterns that alternate tend to have the most obvious input lag, for lack of a better term.
@@MyDearFrodo I learned about it in my 10th year of playing trombone, after that it is quite hard to remove the wrong habit.
@@drunkenfarmerjohn42 what other wind instruments? your argument is full of sand
Literally never thought I would see an Age of Empires reference on this channel. I’m thoroughly satisfied
Wait where?
For Your Next Q+A:
Adam, is there a theory or something around the idea of relative velocity(volume) between notes with in a chord? I've been thinking of these while writing music in my DAW (Reason). I can play a chord and then adjust the velocity of each individual note, accentuating certain notes and sub harmonics and overall changing the color and texture of what could be a simple chord. So I'm curious if there is a theory around this idea. Thanks in advance!
Hi Adam Neely, a great topic of conversation that could help us new musicians, would be on how to play an instrument that is not in tune. Or the art of using semitones to complement an existing piece.
It's good you also mention DAW's. I'm taking an 8 week long course on electronic music production with Ableton, starting next week. I've been making beats in Garage Band from time to time in the past year and same goes for me watching your vids.
It feels good to finally do something with music rather than only listening to it. If my head stumbles upon a melody or beat, it can become real now, which is awesome! I'm not all that knowlegable on "the harmonic style of 18th century European musicians", but I'm learning the basics and mostly having fun with this new hobby and that's partially thanks to you, Adam!
There’s a guy I know in my local scene who only has his right hand and he uses open tunings and plays with the nub of his left arm to play guitar.
Kind of like lord lokrhead from nocturnal depression
Tony Melendez was born without arms and has made a career as a singer, guitarist.
There's a religious musician by the name of Tony Melendez who was born without arms, but has made a career out of playing the guitar with only his feet. Even if you may not be religious, I think it's interesting to see that even when you aren't born with everything, people with a live for music always find a way to express themselves
I wonder if the horn physics is part of the issue. Has anyone ever measured the latency of the various horns? The time between the moment the player initiates the note and the time the note is heard.
the fact that Adam knows or is into AoE its freakin' amazing!!!
Dude I bugged when i saw that... I actually questioned myself
Had to do a double take myself
That John Williams concert in Vienna holy shit.. I was there live and I cannot even begin to tell you how amazing it was
As a huge beatbox fan, really cool to know you are acquainted with GENE and the Beatbox House.
I think you would maybe be fond of NME in terms of beatbox.