when black swan came out, a friend of mine who is a ballet dancer made a great comment when people asked him about it: "Is not a movie about ballet, its a movie about obsesion. So is not meant to be analized from the perspective of ballet, but psychology" I feel the same about this movie. The fact that is jazz is partially incidental.
The part that got me was when Fletcher said that the other drummer ( forgot his name) dropped out of the band and went into pre med. Pre med school is extremely stressful and the fact the guy would rather be in pre med school than Fletchers class says a lot.
I've thought about this, and I think there's a pretty good chance that "switching to pre-med" is a euphemism for something else. Not only because it strikes me as odd that a guy who's been playing music for years at an actual music school would just suddenly switch to a completely different field (without there being any qualification he even changed schools), but also because we know for a fact that Fletcher is willing to lie about his students to conceal his own abusive nature (see: Sean Casey).
@@alicetheibault9440 Ehhh, it's not the wildest career change I've seen. Music is orthogonal to medicine too, so it's not like someone can't enjoy or be good at both.
i think the reason why we don't see students talking to each other and sharing music is because the main character completely isolates himself, we see that with the girl he was dating, he is so obsessed with impressing Fletcher that it's the only thing he cares about. his voluntary loneliness is very important to his character
i also just feel like in the environment fletcher has built on his band any comraderie gets smashed. that kid that fletcher got into the band just to tick andrew was nice to him at the beginning and i thought they were friends, and he's the only one who said anything about andrew being all bloodied and hurt after the car accident, but because of the intensly high competitive environment friendship was never even on the table. also these are kids who admire this mentor and you're bound to mirror the behavior of your mentor at some point, which to me was the explanation as to why everyone in band who even spoke to andrew was so rude and had a similar language as fletcher's. people like him tell you to view your peers as either competition or tools, not friends
Yeah, when the protagonist joins the class for the first time we actually see students going in with smiles in their face and talking and being friendly. The main character was particularly lonely and focused on success, and the film never focused on what other musicians were doing outside of those sessions.
This movie is like 2% about jazz. The other 98% is about a) what it's like to give everything you are to the pursuit of greatness, and; b) the power dynamics between an individual like that and a demanding instructor.
Not even that. If you give everything you are to the pursuit of greatness you don't act like that. Because if you go full speed and disregard your own limits.. you wont become good at anything. You get injured. You burn out. You lose it. If you wanna become great at something you need to pace yourself. Stay healthy. Make sure you don't burn out. Be efficient with your training. Make sure you recover well and a lot. Sleep a lot. Eat well. It's all about having endurance and playing the long game.
@@earlgrey2130 That is true. But isn’t there a point where being great at something like music should be the pursuit? Obviously, it is a balancing act between taking care of ones own personal health and giving it all for the love of music.
Well then maybe the setting shouldn't be a jazz school?? This is such a dumb defense. If somebody made a movie about college football and got things wrong left and right, people would point out the flaws, and rightfully so. But because this is about a much more niche topic, it's fine all of a sudden because tHe mOvIe iS nOt aBoUt jAzZ
@@Howitchewstofeel5gum Except if the movie was about a QB and a demanding coach and it's brilliantly written and performed. I'm not gonna go tHat's noT HOw footBaLl WOrKs. It's a setting. Similar to Black Swan. The movie isn't really about ballet, it's about the consuming nature of being perfect. If the director claimed it was a musical or what the music business is really like than sure, but nobody has claimed that. Interstellar failed cause it claimed to have real science and then the main character went into a black hole and wasn't ripped apart. If space was just a setting then no-one would care, such as this movie.
I played percussion for a elementary school band and Whiplash got everything accurate to my experience. Ive had my teacher throw a chair at me, yelled at 2 inches from my face, and humiliated both in private along with band mates
When i saw whiplash for the first time, i was so freaked out that he was able to count 215 by memory and i thought at some point i’d need to be able to do that as a musician
I’m pretty sure what everyone misses about that scene is fletcher is just fucking with him. Like maybe he was leading or lagging a bit and maybe it’s something neeman needed to work on, but it was an excuse for fletcher to break him down and there was NO RIGHT ANSWER Neaman could have given. You can see it on all the other musicians faces, they’ve all been hazed by him so they all look away in discomfort because they know he’s just gonna scream at him and throw shit until he breaks down
@@swarthygiant1463 exactly. There’s more nuance to these details than simply being right or wrong, or realistic or not. Things are taken to extremes due to the extreme characters being portrayed- same with how he counts everybody in. He could be doing it an “alternative” way to keep them on their toes and like you’re saying, have any excuse to go off and “inspire greatness” through humiliation.
yeah, honestly I think Adam sorta missed the mark in that he based his criticisms off of it being a jazz film, rather than a drama. if anything the music takes a backseat to the relationships and dynamics between characters; yes there were a couple things that really threw me off (Fletcher calling a setlist a, "playlist," for example, like the fuck?) but otherwise I feel like we need to remember this was BASED ON musical education, not a direct copy of it. we even see the lower grade teacher being sympathetic and laid back with his students at the beginning - Fletcher is MEANT to be unfun and uncaring. otherwise the film wouldn't have a point.
Hey Adam, I am one of the guys back there in the trumpet section in the "studio band". You are correct that the guys with speaking roles were not pro musicians. I was the only "real trumpet player" back there, and the rest of the band was about half real musicians, half actors. As you know, this was a low budget film. One of the prerequisites for those actors when they auditioned for a role in the film was that they had to bring their own instrument. THAT LOW BUDGET! The other three trumpet players played in elementary school or middle school and brought their horns with them to the shoot. Additionally, it was interesting that there wasn't a music supervisor present to make sure all musicians looked realistic while playing. There were numerous times where those of us that were the real musicians had to advise the actors how to hold the horn or not to have a trumpet mouthpiece in the trombone (yes this really happened). Also, yes I sharped that 9. You can see me nodding my head in the film ;) Those of us who are real musicians had a good laugh about that line on the set. But hey...I just do as I'm told, I'm not the director!
hey Drew, since you were in the movie, maybe you can tell me who did the actual drumming parts? I looked everywhere and nobody is credited for this... i know Teller couldn't have done all that stuff himself.
Kyle Crane (a fantastic drummer here in LA) was the hands of Miles Teller for close up shots. For much of the actual recordings with the full big band though, I'm not sure. I believe they did a non-union recording session with local studio guys in LA. Those types of sessions are usually kept on the down low. They did not use any of the actual recording of the band playing live (thank goodness, it was ugly).
Actually, wasn't it the guy who played the core drummer, Tanner? I read somewhere that Nate Lang (Tanner - the guy who asked Andrew to tune his drums to Bb) was the guy who trained Miles Teller.
Being passionate about niche music genres indeed doesn't always mean you don't make time for going to the gym. Now, that said, most of us don't make the time needed to get that shredded unless via the luck of the gene pool. 😝
@@moviemaestro800 you could be in any gene pool, if you want to be that jacked, that's several hours of training per day, or roids, + tons of food that a US student can't afford unless it's his priority in life and part of his training. At least, on planet earth, that's how it goes. In your imagination, perhaps you'd like to think some people "are born like that". That's cute.
6:14 Fletcher knew Andrew was on tempo, he was just trying to get under his skin to make him practice harder. He said later in the movie "there are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." Flecther was afraid that if he gave Andrew credit, he would get lazy.
@@donsanchodelapanza i say both of you are correct. He is a narcissist in a sense that he wants all the attention on him, but at the same time I've had professors that are strict and brought out the best of students of course not in an abusive manner as in the movie, as it seemed to be over exaggerated to strengthen the "tough love" theme.
Exactly, this UA-camr knows about jazz but doesn’t seem to understand the movie is about mind games and manipulation. Fletcher is trying to make him better but is also fucking him up to do it. I played in band and I have to push this move because too much of this hits home and I get angry or start sweating. This dude was my band director.
@@fightingblindly There's a comment by Ian Mertz in this very same comment section (not this thread, lol) who says they came from the very same high school and band program that the director, Damien Chazelle, came from. I think you'd appreciate its perspective as it does highlight specifically what you're talking about, and why both you and Adam got completely different takeaways from it. In short, it feels like competitive high school band because it _is_ - a high school experience adapted to an "adult" setting, which is why a professional musician like Adam doesn't connect with it at all
So he's a jackass for the better of his students. But he never says that, so while we know that, but the people he's teaching just makes him look like a jackass and making it not fun to play jazz or music and people might not want to play anymore.
I think the scene of Fletcher in the jazz club was more of a way to show just how stuck in the past he was, and how mediocre of a player he really was. Which makes his motivation to force Neeman to succeed even more complex, almost like how a mother may use a beauty pageant to force their daughter to succeed where they could not so that they could selfishly live their dream vicariously. On another note, throughout the film, I always saw Neeman portrayed more as an outsider to the Jazz world, clinging on to the idealized vision of Buddy Rich that he was basically given to him by his dad. The scene at the dinner table pretty much solidifies that aspect of his character, and how he idealized the past just as much as Fletcher does. Neither of them are willing to move into the future of jazz.
interesting take. i always just looked at it more simply and thought that the lameness of the music was to set the tone for that part of the movie: it’s like the “calm before the storm moment” since the movie has been so tense for so long, they were giving us a little break and allowing the characters to reconcile, only to reverse the tone again for the finale
if he considers the typical starbucks jazz soundtracks as mediocre, then he should be able to recognize that he himself sounds just as bad if not worse. if there was a scene of fletcher being insecure or not proud of his performance then your theory could've made sense, but idk he seemed pretty proud of his performance. well-trained musicians are generally able to evaluate their own performance as well.
The movie makes me think of how educators should strike a good balance between how they treat students ... do they get to be a tyrant due to their position as teachers regardless of whether their intentions are good ?
The scene of Fletcher playing the most bland jazz you could ever listen anywhere I believe was entirely intentional. But he did a great job at that! I felt like it was exactly the opposite of what he demanded from his students, even tossing in some unintended sharps or flats would have given it some more jazz flavor. It’s the ultimate ‘do as I say, not as I do!’
I saw it as fletcher being defeated. He’d lost all prestige along with his class. He had fallen from greatness and was left playing the opposite of what he preached because he could no longer preach. It just built more tension towards the final performance being a sort of last hope for his career before he fades into obscurity, left to playing bland, safe “jazz.”
Theorizing in-universe explanations for mistakes, plotholes, or other writing weaknesses typically are some of the less interesting critical/fan discussions of fiction. In this case though, I've found them pretty intriguing. Given the rest of the original soundtrack, and other mistakes especially things like having young people idolize someone who even the fustiest, most uncreative stick-in-the-mud ancient old fogey would have regarded as more of a normie celebrity than a pioneer, it seems pretty unlikely that this was deliberate. The jazz Fletcher played there, though, is so very egregiously awful that it would have to be that he was completely broken as a man or a total fraud the whole time or something of the sort. And there's nothing in Simmons's or Teller's performance that suggests he's being reacted to that way. Hell, there's nothing in the audience's reaction to suggest it. And no way could he get away with that in that setting; he'd probably be dragged off that stage with a hook as the paying audience was on the verge of riot. Why not have Andrew find Fletcher playing in an actual Starbucks, in the Paramus Mall or something, if that was the objective? (Though that would indeed be a very different movie since Fletcher indeed didn't really fall that far in the movie; he is playing the JVC after all!) Ultimately it really doesn't remotely fit however interesting the theory is.
@@salvadorromero9712 I think it’s fun to theorize but you’re right in saying usually these little plot holes are just slip ups on the writers part. About this movie in particular I like Scott Neely’s (I think) perspective. He added a little line is his video somewhere along the lines of “this movie isn’t made with the intention of loving jazz but with the intention of making a good movie.” They didn’t pay that much attention to exactly what the characters were doing and playing and that made it lack soul, but I’ll say they did end up with a pretty damn entertaining movie.
@@salvadorromero9712Odd comment. You might be a jazz critic and hate the music, but technically it's just bland jazz. The entire point of the scene is that the manic, obsessive idea of "greatness" he instills in Andrew is nowhere to be found - just a man playing jazz in a club.
I agree with both, but it's when Nieman takes the reins of the finale performance that he achieves greatness, I can see it a bit in the way all other musicians perform that piece, like they feel liberated. In a weird way, this movie reminds me of "Training Day".
It was a movie about neurotic abuse. Nothing to do with music or drive towards excellence. In real life the band conductor (also known as fascist prick) would have been knocked out almost immediately. If not by one of his students, then by one of the parents. Hollywood is silly sometimes.
@@PetraKann its not that hollywood is silly, but that movies in general tend to take a more exaggerated approach to things to make you feel it even more. If he was just slightly abusive and toxic, we wouldn’t have such a divide in how people see him as either an abuser, or a genius who pushed hos students forward. Its also telling of how people see the world.
I had a band teacher in high school who was almost as bad as Fletcher. Took 4 years to get him fired and actually sent to court for all he did, but he traumatized pretty much all the students he ever met.
Basically on the same boat, but my band teacher never went to court. As a matter of fact, the school district essentially protected him and he retired back in 2019. He essentially terrorized the students and there were also SA accusations. There was also a student who lived with him
My interpretation of the scene with Fletcher playing in the jazz club was more to show that he was a hypocrite. Fletcher demands that his students constantly push themselves to reach musical excellence even though he himself as a musician is uninspired and amateur. I thought it gave him more dimension as a character since it revealed that his passion for teaching came from a belief that if he himself could never be a great musician, at least he might be able to inspire one of his students to become one.
Obviously; he has a method of getting his target students lulled into thinking he's a nice guy and then he pounces on them by declaring nothing they do is good enough. The way he savaged the poor horn player who thought he was out of tune is another example. He wanted to hammer that poor bloke to get rid of him while making an example of him to intimidate the rest of them.
@Mark Donald In the world of this film, though, it's worth it to them to tolerate a certain amount of abuse if they think it will advance their careers. In real life this is more of an athletic thing, which is what Adam means when he says it's a sports movie.
They make that abundantly clear with the mistake from the horn player who makes the mentally weak, but better player leave to teach the mentally stronger player a lesson, because he's teaching via psychological manipulation, not pure skill alone. This scene comes right before that and makes it clear, and even if you didn't get it, he later says that that's what he was doing. To misinterpret that pretty much makes you mentally deficient. I mean, that's literally what the movie was about. Psychological manipulation and fletcher being the symbol of unrealistic inadequacy in perfectionists. It seems that some people have never been there and just can't grasp this as a result, like a colorblind person trying to see ultraviolet.
The part that Andrew played 215 was perfect and jk was mad at him to just break him into tears not because he was not good enough it was because he wanted to break him so he could control him in the future
Jazz is not the point of the movie. The movie wasn’t supposed to make people feel inspired about music. It wasn’t supposed to raise jazz on some sort of platform. The point of the movie was to create a story about a person who just wants to be remembered. The problem with that is that throughout the movie he is losing himself along the way. So by the end of the movie his EX has a new boyfriend and his dad doesn’t even recognize his son anymore. The only one who actually gives him approval for his toxic actions is his toxic teacher who had been emotionally manipulating him throughout the entire movie and finally got what he wanted.
In some respects the "point" of nearly all good fiction is the characters and their human story. The setting is merely stage decoration. But the objection here is that it wasn't successfully made to fit. I could write a story about immortal insectoid scientists on a spaceship of intergalactic conquest. I could make that choice of circumstance for my characters. But if I don't then write them convincingly as to how a passion for the pursuit of science, or immortality, or a peripatetic or military lifestyle, etc.--these things that I have chosen to assign for them--would tend to affect the way one views and interacts with the world, I can't just say, "It's about the characters, bro. Just listen to the story I'm trying to tell." I have a serious flaw in my fiction. So yes, when these musicians' criticism of the movie spills over into talk basically about whether the film is "good for jazz," as though they were evaluating promotional material or something, obviously that's not something anyone else is going to be interested in. But that's focusing on a marginal, least interesting part of their criticism. The issue of whether the story is being told true to the jazz setting is very much an important one, and certainly can't be dismissed by claiming that "jazz is not the point of the movie."
What dragons_red said. Anyone who feel they have a universal answer to that question though is most likely a horrible person and/or a moron. It's a very personal question that only a person themselves can answer.
I would like to point out the fact that Miles Teller played the majority of the drumming scenes himself, with only a few audio edited in where it didn't write line up. But I want to give credit where credit is due. He is truly an amazing actor and did truly amazing in this role. Also, the dinner scene with his family, so freaking accurate. Especially growing up in Texas, football is such a big deal that the fine arts are often overlooked by people who don't understand them and therefore don't care about them.
Man, that dinner table scene, for ANY musician, anywhere in the world, is spot on. NONE of your extended family thinks much of you "playing in a band" - it's always simply a punchline for them, as in always asking you, "How's the "BAND" going?" as if mocking you that you're not famous yet. I grew to HATE that question, and to squelch any further discussion, I would simply say, "OK" and that was it, never going into detail about gigs or achievements or songs or studio work, etc. Just shut up and leave me alone.
@@Caff-pv8fgOnly if you are in that scene. I do recognize that Texas does have one of the better band and music communities, however if you are not a part of it then it's kind of forgotten about. At least that's how it has come across in my personal experience.
To me, there's nothing much to "know", really. All the terminology are soooo...made-up. Music should just be a hobby. Someone was lazy to go out and do work for money, so they complicated music and made it out to be some kind of intense field of study so that they get paid for "specialising" in it.
@@flolorm2349 Uh I'm 15. Sorry if you disagree with me, some of it was pretty funny but some of it was meh. That's just how I feel. Well, I hope you have a nice day (or night depending on your time zone). Sorry I upset you.
i actually go to school with the young actor for andrew. he told me he asked the director if he wanted him to play a paradiddle, and the director told him to just play whatever. justice for sam campisi!
The chair hierarchy might not be a thing in jazz bands, but it absolutely exists in marching bands. 1st chairs typically play solos, main melodies, and the more complex music parts. They are considered the best musicians for their sections, and all members of the band audition for their chair placement.
Yeah definitely. The people who always get 1st part are so impressive to me. Marching band is honestly so much more difficult than people give it credit for.
I’m not a film critic. But I am still able to identify what is important in a film, and I also know that watching a film with the intent of scouring it for inaccuracies is not the right way to go about it. So, what is important in a film? Showing life as it is, every day, for most people - in this case, musicians? Well, sure, sometimes. But not in Whiplash, and not in most films. This is a film about exploring the themes of obsession and abuse. It is a visual marvel and it is full of excellent characters. “Realism” is hardly important, because this is a unique story, told with purpose. It’s not going to be Adam Neely’s life.
@@RuhrRedArmy The right way about it is definitely not you deciding what is or isn't right. Realism is hardly important _to you_ for this film. But it is a movie about jazz. And a lot accurate information is portrayed right, which people like you conveniently ignore in favor of pretentiously praising "the themes" the film portrayed, because you don't care about music. The director sure does, and because you don't care, you think it's not right to care when it comes to criticism.
@@SuperUnunquadium If I would take anything back, then I would retract saying there is a "right way" to watch a film. I still disagree it is about realism, but even if we frame it in that way, Rick has no ground to stand on. He hasn't actually seen the film, he's seen a trailer for mass audiences. If YOU think it's inaccurate, that's one thing, but he has no rounded view of the film. If you care about "the music," that's fine - I do too - but there are other elements to the film. I also disagree that "the music" = realism. That's a strange way of looking at it. I care about music too, but a film can be about "the music" without sticking to the ordinary.
@@ok-ms3ke the reason theres only one "accurate jazz school movie" is because nobody gives a fuck to go see a movie regarding that subject matter, as evidenced by this films poor box office proceeds and lack of critical acclaim. Although JK simmons is an absolute fucking treat in this film, makes me want to shit on his chest.
I was in a jazz band playing piano, and one of two players, so we had to take turns playing. Trouble is, I never had jazz training, don't read music note by note, don't follow the count, never practiced, but the band director was pretty chill, our music transcribing sessions we would play online js games, and he would sneak us out to McDonalds for breakfast. Don't even know why I joined that band.
@@eyelashes5610 lol this is funnier and goes with the comment structure. I wanted to add a philosophical touch so I wrote it from the perspective of Django and how for him even getting freedom was okay only. You see, I am a monk hence philosophy. 😇
19:48 After rewatching the movie a couple times, I interpreted Fletcher's mediocrity in jazz playing to show that he isn't really that talented of a player himself, and therefore all the more felt the need to find a talented student to teach to carry on his legacy, since he didn't have the talent to do so himself. It probably doesn't make sense that a professor at a prestigious music school in NYC isn't that great of a jazz player himself, but I like what it does from a narrative perspective.
exactly this. Paired with his comment about Starbucks Jazz album... is probably a comment he has received himself! He comes across as someone loathing his own limitations to a point where he projects it onto other's performance.
I thought he was kind of burned out after being thrown off the school. This was now the weaker and maybe softer Fletcher playing, with less bite. (Of course this idea gets negated later the in the movie but when first watching the scene it's the first time you see Fletcher after he was thrown out). Also: In the movie all the glory and all the fun is to be had in big venues and in front of important people. Playing in a small club for just ordinary music lovers seemed to be pictured as a dawn fall for a once great musician.
Consider mediocrity a little bit more kindly for a while, and maybe you'll form a different idea of the wrong kind of talent-focus. Why? Well let's face it, pretty much all of us have at least some element of mediocrity (even if that is a non-self-aware complete failure to be humble about having much to be humble about). This means that a world that is harsh on mediocrity is harsh on most people. So it's a world that fails maybe even 85% of the time? A world that is needlessly harsh on its inhabitants could hardly be called a "success", surely? (Sorry that this is so tangentially related to this movie, but this is the line of thinking that this review has triggered in me, so this is all I'm able to contribute to the discussion. And any thread in which the competitive premises of the "sports film" aspect of this movie are unchallenged - perhaps even taken as givens, but that's not necessary) "retriggers" me.) Yes, those setting out to make a living out of music look like they need to prepare to face quite a dog-eat-dog world, but even that has little to do with the Music. And I would think that the only truly excellent musicians are ones that are almost entirely driven along in a quite pure way, by Music. It's a great example of something that motivates people to do great things without needing any "social darwinism". Getting the gig might require some cutthroating, but getting accepted in the long term in some band requires a set of motivations more like those driving someone to e.g. produce beautiful equations, than those driving someone to "win" commercially, for the pleasure of seeing how the competition loses. This is a way in which humanity achieves much excellence without having to jibber and twitch back to some kind of warlike loser-production process. In context, this more competitively told music tale could have been made more interesting by simply exposing the hollowness of Fletcher's way of seeing things. (No, I don't know how. It's always easy to criticise/ destroy things; always hard to create/ make). But back to us poor old mediocre mass shuffling our incompetent way through life. Why should any of us lacking talent of the first order ascribe to a set of values that sets our value to zero? (At the extreme, that's what this version of "excellence" does). Why not just completely reject such stories as of no interest to any but the 1% they're told about? I exaggerate, of course. This might seem a bit of a "left-field" (and I've only ever played cricket, not baseball) illustration of a better way, but consider Parkrun. (If you've never heard of this, look it up; it's a brilliant, simple idea that is changing the lives of many who need this, instead of few, who don't really need what they get from running). I won't go into details. Look it up if you're interested. My assertion is that Parkrun is the kind of running that the world as a whole needs, and that something like marathons have let humanity down pretty badly by comparison. At school, running (and in the wrong hands, even music) is framed in competitive terms. If you run, you're either running to win, or to supply a necessary loser for there to be a proper race. Just about everybody gets a chance to lose; one person gets to win; if that person is defeated, I suppose he gets to double-lose. Lots of losing goes on. A purely competitive world is a world in the business of mass-producing losers. (It also produces a tiny few winners - at things that don't matter, much of the time). The world needs to imagine something better than this if it's to defeat the stupid ideas of the ancients. School running leads adults toward the couch. Once released on parole from the school system, nobody is going to try and force you to do what's good for you any more. Even if you've done a whole bunch of winning in that system, once you are set free, nobody is going to force you to harm yourself to achieve something that now seems (and quite probably is) pointless any more. There's the couch. Those joggers out there are mad. Now the thing is that running can be a joy, as long as you just stay in your own world and don't consume the poison of comparison. Take good enough care to not hurt yourself, and you'll find that you can run quite a long way without getting out of puff, and enjoy it, much as you would have enjoyed a walk of similar duration. This is a mediocre form of running, to be sure, but it sure beats living life as a spectator. And your homework is to translate the deep wisdom I've hinted might be found in the simple act of shambling along happily to musical terms. :-) Either that or get yourself an instrument, or teach yourself the art of tuneless whistling. You'll probably reach the same conclusions and have more fun along the way.
If you're looking for another Jazz Movie in pop culture, id suggest looking at Pixar's "Soul". I personally really liked it for the love of jazz that it portrays through the characters and at the animators own hands!
@@ninjireal i think youre still mentally immature/underdeveloped if you genuinely thought Soul didnt have mature emotional themes/undertones that adults could pick up on and relate to lol
I experienced a lot more "Whiplashing" in high school to be honest. That director was ultimately removed, but those personalities unfortunately do exist in jazz education. I think he thought it was his mission to weed out anyone not super dedicated to music.
Same. I wasn't in jazz band for too long but I was in band and yes...the throwing things (not at students but near them), the insults, the "band should be the only thing in your life", etc. was everywhere in my music education. 3/5 of my band directors were fired for mistreating students in a variety of ways. My first band director was fired for refusing to change a zero grade for a soloist who had gotten into a car accident on the way to her concert.
I found that those personalities also existed among the students, even more so than among the instructor should they enable it/allow it to fester. My high school band was incredibly toxic, we were always at each other’s throats because the director simply chose to ignore the drama instead of making sure people got along.
People who love music breed contempt in others who are obsessed with music, but don't understand love. They make new rules, where love is never enough - only obsession is.
This would also align with the writer/director's actual experience too. I kind of wish it did take place in the setting, but I supposed they wanted the real life stakes to be higher (main character being closer to adulthood, trying to make his mark on the world)
Personally I, as a brass player myself, took the "sharp the ninth" as playing said sharp ninth especially sharp so it rings well in the chord. Some notes and intervals have to be played flat or sharp so they fit.
Exactly. This guy obviously never played a wind instrument lol. Meanwhile he’s nitpicking every tiny detail when he should have realized stuff like this himself and not assume that he is right just because he went to music school.
"Five, six, and..." is not used anymore that much even for 7/4, thus it's cringy. How is this a point to be discussed in a video? Fletcher is clearly a very picky band leader, counting "five, six, and" only underlines his urge to train the band to the most possible "perfect" it can reach.
1:08 Part 1: What the movie got right 4:46 Part 2: What the movie got mildly wrong 8:15 Part 3: What the movie got... like... almost right 11:48 Part 4: Terrence Flecher 14:55 Part 5: Buddy Rich 18:34 Part 6: The soundtrack 22:00 Part 7: This is a sports movie 25:13 Part 8: Music is, like fun
As a jazz educator myself (at the high school level), my first goal was to get my students in love with jazz. I constantly hid the lick around, had jazz playing in my room, and picked a wide variety of music that reflected the genre and its history. The result is a really solid group that loves jazz. Whether the band performs well and gets placed highly in their yearly assessment is secondary to me. I want them to love jazz for the sake of loving jazz. I strongly agree with your last point here.
@@3n3j0t4no cuz dude, i have no idea how this man took a feature of the movie as a flaw like how tf are students gonna be having fun if the mf is throwing chairs and insults?
The movie is about two characters and two characters only. Andrew and Fletcher. And the story is a tragedy of two people who forgot all the love of creation in their quest for perfectionism. I got this from the scenes where Fletcher plays in the bar (it was supposed to be melancholic and emotional, unlike all the stuff the band plays) and the scenes where Andrew watches Buddie, but usually only looking at technique, not really listening to the music. Also when he looks at the video of himself as a child playing the drums, this scene evokes the childlike creativity and carelessness, ie. the time he still had love for the music. I actually imagine all the other students at the school going to concerts, talking about music and enjoying themselves at the music school. I think most of the other band players just think Fletcher is an ahole and suffer through his rants only for the opportunity to play in the band. However they also play in other bands at the school and with friends, so they don't really care. And Flecther doesn't care also, he sees them as just mediocre so he doesn't really bother with them.
No this makes a lot of sense cause at the end when he finally reaches and perfects the song he stops hearing the music. There are times where he stops hearing all together and the only thing he focuses on is the technique. Its not for him to enjoy, hes only there to do good and move on. It shows when he upstands his brothers? When they talked about football, Theyre both narcissistic but they use each other for themselves. The acting is so fun to catch small things
I think what makes it even worse is knowing that if I had pursued Jazz in college like I had originally planned to, I would have met other people who were just passionate about music. I’m not religious, but when I was in a band and director actually let us play through an entire song that was probably the closest I came to having a religious experience. I just wish my high school band department had been as competitive as it was. We were told that “you audition everyday”, but we were 14. I had 7 other classes to study for but if I don’t eat, drink, breath, and shit jazz I’m wasting you time? Jesus. I’m just now picking up my sax after 8 years because I kept having nightmares about it. I couldn’t listen to jazz constructively without sobbing.
@leafyv2 given they said they couldn't pick up the instrument again because they kept having nightmares after what they went through, I think you probably don't know better about what their teacher meant.
@@blackfordoblique1965 to be fair, the two guys who can say “As a member of Queen” actually think the movie was the best thing since the invention of fire because they produced it. The real criticism is that anyone who can say, “as a filmmaker” or “as someone who knows the actual history of Queen and has no desire to rewrite it” knows Bohemian Rhapsody was shite.
@@wellesradio Perhaps. I think I understand what you say except for what it is I owe for the honor of your sharing the clarification. I appreciate it. It makes sense. But I still don't 'get it'. But I also know how dumb I can be.
This movie came out my first semester as a freshman in music school, where I was studying jazz bass. Some friends and I watched it one night and it put the fear of god into us as we were only about a month into classes. Funny enough, we had a big band rehearsal one night and our director had seen the movie a week prior. He had a pretty good sense of humor, and another freshman in the horn section who had seen the movie messed a part up, so our director decided to have some fun and chased the horn player around the rehearsal hall with a chair. Everyone was terrified and then our director started laughing and was like "Ya'll must of watched that movie Whiplash. Don't worry that movie is bullshit."
@@CalvinLimuel I just know he liked cussing out the big band...and it was definitely bad when there were multiple bassists, so there were days I had to come to class just to hear him cuss other people out...and not even get to play.
While I may be a musician who now plays black metal on bass I do find this movie fairly accurate to my experience playing classical music on piano. I was forced into the competition of it all. I was forced to have mannerisms that weren’t natural to me as well as to not have fun. I despised it. All I wanted to do was play music, possibly preform. I didn’t want to be compared to others. When I switched to bass and metal for that matter it was much more relaxed. There was no rigid standards that I had to fit. Despite playing the least relaxing music out there I find playing it relaxing. When I played classical it was stressful and horrible. There was fear before the competitions I attended basically against my will. Now when I preform at local festivals and venues there’s no fear, just joy. This movie isn’t so much about jazz, it’s more about the competition that comes with playing certain genres of music. Classical and jazz both have that aspect of competition and there are pressures that come along with it. Some may like the competition, but in my experience I have only ever seen it create toxic environments.
i agree but oh my god- not the point- i think this is kinda funny. i used to play piano and now i play bass. its like somewhat, piano players turn into bassists.
Very great analysis. Whiplash is my favorite film simply based on its filmmaking and narrative merits; I don't know anything about jazz, but it was to hear a perspective on this film from someone who does understand jazz culture. However, I also never believed for a second that this movie's depiction of college jazz bands was realistic. Put simply, this isn't supposed to be a jazz movie - it's an obsession movie.
^^^^^^ yes. 100% about obsession. and also the mental process of trying to be a perfectionist and the consequences of falling into the 'rabbit' hole. There was another breakdown comparison analysis video on how the perfectionist (black swan) went through a mental breakdown for trying to get the part.
Sometimes you smack the shit out of the rim or something. I've done it (I am a "beginner" drummer only a couple years), and my friend who is an educated jazz drummer has done it too. Neither of us noticed until after we stopped playing. One of my friends loaned a snare to somebody and got it back with blood stains all over it from the same thing. So I can definitely see that happening
Wait till you try to bend a string on a guitar and it cuts it through your ring finger, not using a pick could also spread blood all over. Most injuries only happen if your fingers are already damaged though. Haha. Much love drummers!
@@33shin33 once while playing on a gig hit the strings with my finger and it hit right under my nail, it hurt like hell but i kept playing and after the song there was blood all over my guitar
When I was in the army (and now even years after) I would have the same experience with ANY portrayal of armed forces in movies; no matter how close they get it, it's always off enough that it just takes me right out of it. Little details; the way people speak on the radio, uniform and patches being totally wrong (NOBODY uses the neck velcro on ACUs... EVER!), etc. It's difficult to watch any portrayal of something that you are immersed in because no matter how close they get it to the real thing, it'll always be off in certain ways that would only be evident to someone who is living (or has lived) that experience themselves.
I've found that to be true in literally every profession I've been involved in, from musician and recording engineer, to woodworker, and even (and especially), the state I live in in America. I just try my hardest not judge others by such things, because in doing so, we will invariably be wrong far more often than right, and in some cases will never even once be right.
As a movie enthusiast I can't wrap my head how anyone would wanna watch a movie on a pad device. Kudos to you for noticing everything you did despite that factor.
Same here - that was the FIRST mistake this guy made in watching this movie. When you watch a movie, you do so AT THE LEAST on a television screen, not with the distractions of a public park around you. This guy is all over the old-school aspects of the movie, but maybe it's going too far "new-school" in the way he consumes his media.
Right?!? Headphones are at least the right direction of you don't have a good surround system, but should only be used as a last resort really. Especially for a musician, who should be the one person that recognizes how truly important audio AND video quality is. I can hardly stand watching films in the theatre anymore because my home theatre is so much better, and the often poor audio at theatres can ruin the experience for me. Really great headphones can be wonderful too though, but he's not using even decent ones by the look of it...
For reference, in high school bands, competitions and chairs being assigned by a hierarchy ARE a thing. This is very much a movie about being abused both by high school band directors and by the very systems they use, even if it wasn't intented that way. This is also why you don't see a love of music in the movie. The creators have had all of their love for it drained from them by the inherently abusive structures of high school bands. Which means it's not necessarily accurate to actual professional jazz or post secondary jazz education. I don't play my stuff much anymore because it nearly sucked all the love out of me. Thankfully, I still play for fun occasionally. But really, this movie is a good measure for how much abuse can warp the perceptions of the things you love and even ruin them for you for life. And to how inherently abusive the way high school bands are structured that it apparently regularly does.
This is an excellent explanation, I am currently having that happen to me and I am now quiting because I don't want the fun and enjoyment to be ruined. Thank you for telling me the danger of what's possible. The best or worst part is that I am a jazz drummer and the director who makes me feel this way is also a bald douche.
This. I can say for a fact that 20 years ago chairs absolutely were a hierarchy and music was just as much about "being tough" as it was playing music. "Fun" was like a third or fourth consideration. Half the people were not music lovers. It was a contest and something to do. And let's not forget this movie got Oscar nominations. It's a film and a good one. The public at large wouldn't like jazz music.
yeah I noticed that too. the director was using his memory of chairs as a ranking from high school band (which is a thing that is still used in high schools) but that doesn't happen in college meaning that it doesn't work to someone that was actually in college jazz bands. However I wouldn't consider it any sort of slight on neely like I'm sure he understands why the movie has this constant mood of anger and resentment and competition it just doesn't work when analyzing it from a music standpoint
@@ForestGreenSharpie and it might happen in some universities. I think people are quick to say "ok this would NEVER happen anywhere!" and then people say "well it's a common thing in high school with 18 year olds" they say "well maybe but definitely not with 19 year olds at university!!" and I think they're nitpicking at that point.
I was in high school jazz band and we went to competitions with our school placing in the over many decades. Our teacher played no games and there were many times where swear words, music stand, and chairs were hurled
I didnt see this happen but an instructor threw a drum stick at a bass player. The instructor ended up in the ER with 2 broken fingers and a missing tooth.
@App Quit idk honestly. I wasnt there when it happened. But the story spread through out the whole school and I was hearing so many wild stories. But everyone said the same thing about the drumstick being thrown
Hahaha that last shot of you practising superimposed over the drum punching is a wonderful and funny summation of your argument. Can’t wait to see Sungazer in Sydney!!
Terrence doesn't match up with college directors, but HIGH SCHOOL directors are dead on in my experience. My high school director did actually throw a chair, albeit not at a student.
Yeah I never did band in high school but I was in middle school percussion when this film came out and my band teacher who was eventually fired for being so intense once spoke about how great of a teacher Fletcher was
Yeah when you think about it, this is a story from Damien's past, culture could've changed (or not been as to a strict normal). Not to mention he was obviously younger and never said it wasn't in highschool..did he?
My middle school director threw a stand at a kid. Actually a pretty good director believe it or not. Nice guy, that was the only time he ever did anything like that. I mean he yelled at me a few times but looking back i totally deserved it.
@Robert Nelson Thank you. That has been my experience too. This film is not believable. No faculty would put up with this jerk. At ANY level of education. It's totally false. You cannot teach people through fear.
@Adam Neely As someone whose Jazz and Concert band teacher was legit so close to Fletcher that this movie caused me flashbacks, I can say. Yes, these people do exist. He was a professional artist who never had his chance to shine, and thus forced his aspirations on his students. He was a perfectionist who created incredible bands, at the expense of his students. I was instructed to quit all other extra activities in my life or quit. Also yes, chairs were absolutely used as a form of hierarchy. Student favorites who were the most talented were first and failures placed 4th. If he changed you to the 4th chair, you knew your days were numbered. There was no comradery only competitors. Also ironically, we had two drummers, one a natural and one constantly trying to aspire to be recognized. He was onstage when not playing. I saw chairs, music stands, and trash cans regularly thrown. Musicians regularly belittled and their egos destroyed. Failure was not an option. We were drawn to the band due to its grandeur and reputation and though our anxiety was constant while he was in the room, we endured the abuse. While his bands were the best in their regions, I know many of my friends, including myself, who were never able to continue music and forever abandoned this field as they were never able to live up to the ideals of our instructors' perfectionism. Most of us could not, and would not ever be good enough. Granted the few that did, are now professionals... so... as much as I hate my previous experiences, he had a method to his madness. He was fired and rehired many times, as his results were stellar, but the complaints were never-ending.
@@gabrielvero2352 You are right. He couldn't do it with his own hands and instead expected others to do it. I used to hate him for a very long time but I guess now I just pity him. He retired early when he actually injured a student and a parent saw it.
Yep. I wasn't in jazz but I had a high school cheerleading coach who was just as bad. She thankfully never hit anyone or threw anything but she would yell so loud the other classrooms would hear it. One time she grabbed my friend's hand and told her to hit her because of the disrespect she felt. It's crazy to think that these teachers get to stay in their positions, especially when dealing with young students. I was diagnosed with PTSD after realizing that maybe I did suffer a lot more than I thought when I was on the team. Only a handful of other students (including me) continued to dance after high school and I 100% think it was because our spirits were crushed during our time there. Whiplash was anxiety inducing and such a great representation of what students suffer under the hands of a teacher who creates a chaotic environment to achieve some sort of "greatness" in their little world.
This sort of deep analysis of film is new to me. One thing that I noticed while combing through this movie for jazz nitpicks is that...this movie is insanely narratively tight and focused in it's storytelling! No second of celluloid is wasted - everything has a purpose. It really is a joy to behold from that perspective. My critique is mainly coming from a cultural analysis - not a narrative one. Please take that for what it's worth!
I couldn't agree more. Incredible storytelling, poor representation of jazz. My non-musician friends always complain about me nitpicking this movie, and my analysis is much more superficial as I'm not academically trained. I found this new format really interesting. I would love to see more videos like this in the future!
I nit-pick all movies, and I call them all documentaries when they aren't (makes Jurassic Park more interesting). And my years at a state school i saw elements of the jazz hierarchy in the jazz school there. It's a very very good thing no one recorded 1st band rehearsals, all of us alumni over the years still quote their favorite lines from Coach (yes, that was his nick-name). Watching this movie really showed me the difference between west coast and east coast too, urban and rural. My experiences were quite different yet shared some common threads.
I think you nailed this one... It's obvious from your critique that the story is an adaptation of a standard story arc that we see in many other movies, like sports movies, but instead is using music education as a device. It would likely been a very different portrayal had the writer immersed himself in the culture and done the interviews and research necessary to understand it, then written the screen play based on that information. I'm disappointed, honestly. As a writer, I know that the foundation of writing a convincing scene or story is in doing the research necessary to make it come across as factual (even if some creative interjections are made to fit the characters or story elements).
My dad was almost the same way as Fletcher. He was a musician and he tried to teach me but he was a perfectionist and *absolutely lost it* when I couldn't play right the first time and no matter how much I practiced it wasn't good enough, it got so bad I swore off playing instruments. I still enjoy music and dabble in making music now but nowhere near the stuff my dad can do
when black swan came out, a friend of mine who is a ballet dancer made a great comment when people asked him about it: "Is not a movie about ballet, its a movie about obsesion. So is not meant to be analized from the perspective of ballet, but psychology" I feel the same about this movie. The fact that is jazz is partially incidental.
Yessss facts
Totally, the setting is more or less just a catalyst to tell the story
The director himself is also a Jazz musician, which is why he chose it for the story most likely.
@@ryanlioce4933 just like La La Land, he used the jazz world as a backdrop to tell a story he wanted to tell.
I just so fucking wanted to make this point but you did it already in the exact same way i wanted... well whatever someone had to say it
As a tempo, this wasn‘t quite mine.
Finally an original comment
While funny ish, the video is *actually damn good even if it sounds like a high school report it reads like an undergraduate essay*
As a kampf, this wasn't quite mein
Holy shit it’s general grevious
As a rushing, I’m not dragging.
As a pastry, Life of Pi was....confusing
Jecho Adrian Ponce deserves more likes
OMG!!! Standing ovation! I almost choke laughing :)
Underrated comment. I lol'd. And possibly boofed.
I loled
Best comment
The part that got me was when Fletcher said that the other drummer ( forgot his name) dropped out of the band and went into pre med. Pre med school is extremely stressful and the fact the guy would rather be in pre med school than Fletchers class says a lot.
Carl Tanner. Yeah and then he said "he was discouraged." Really? Ya don't say Terry.
That is a good point.
@@acdexter3219 "the next Charlie parker would never be discouraged"
I've thought about this, and I think there's a pretty good chance that "switching to pre-med" is a euphemism for something else. Not only because it strikes me as odd that a guy who's been playing music for years at an actual music school would just suddenly switch to a completely different field (without there being any qualification he even changed schools), but also because we know for a fact that Fletcher is willing to lie about his students to conceal his own abusive nature (see: Sean Casey).
@@alicetheibault9440 Ehhh, it's not the wildest career change I've seen. Music is orthogonal to medicine too, so it's not like someone can't enjoy or be good at both.
i think the reason why we don't see students talking to each other and sharing music is because the main character completely isolates himself, we see that with the girl he was dating, he is so obsessed with impressing Fletcher that it's the only thing he cares about. his voluntary loneliness is very important to his character
i also just feel like in the environment fletcher has built on his band any comraderie gets smashed. that kid that fletcher got into the band just to tick andrew was nice to him at the beginning and i thought they were friends, and he's the only one who said anything about andrew being all bloodied and hurt after the car accident, but because of the intensly high competitive environment friendship was never even on the table. also these are kids who admire this mentor and you're bound to mirror the behavior of your mentor at some point, which to me was the explanation as to why everyone in band who even spoke to andrew was so rude and had a similar language as fletcher's. people like him tell you to view your peers as either competition or tools, not friends
THANK YOU!!! you articulated my thoughts to that perfect
He sold his soul
Yeah, when the protagonist joins the class for the first time we actually see students going in with smiles in their face and talking and being friendly. The main character was particularly lonely and focused on success, and the film never focused on what other musicians were doing outside of those sessions.
My thoughts exactly
This movie is like 2% about jazz. The other 98% is about a) what it's like to give everything you are to the pursuit of greatness, and; b) the power dynamics between an individual like that and a demanding instructor.
But if you're a musician you'll get asked about it like twice a week.
Not even that. If you give everything you are to the pursuit of greatness you don't act like that. Because if you go full speed and disregard your own limits.. you wont become good at anything. You get injured. You burn out. You lose it.
If you wanna become great at something you need to pace yourself. Stay healthy. Make sure you don't burn out. Be efficient with your training. Make sure you recover well and a lot. Sleep a lot. Eat well. It's all about having endurance and playing the long game.
@@earlgrey2130 That is true. But isn’t there a point where being great at something like music should be the pursuit? Obviously, it is a balancing act between taking care of ones own personal health and giving it all for the love of music.
Well then maybe the setting shouldn't be a jazz school?? This is such a dumb defense. If somebody made a movie about college football and got things wrong left and right, people would point out the flaws, and rightfully so. But because this is about a much more niche topic, it's fine all of a sudden because tHe mOvIe iS nOt aBoUt jAzZ
@@Howitchewstofeel5gum Except if the movie was about a QB and a demanding coach and it's brilliantly written and performed. I'm not gonna go tHat's noT HOw footBaLl WOrKs. It's a setting. Similar to Black Swan. The movie isn't really about ballet, it's about the consuming nature of being perfect. If the director claimed it was a musical or what the music business is really like than sure, but nobody has claimed that. Interstellar failed cause it claimed to have real science and then the main character went into a black hole and wasn't ripped apart. If space was just a setting then no-one would care, such as this movie.
I played percussion for a elementary school band and Whiplash got everything accurate to my experience. Ive had my teacher throw a chair at me, yelled at 2 inches from my face, and humiliated both in private along with band mates
What are the odds of seeing you there
glad we both watched this video 4 years later lmao
real@@ilovelasagna5632
jesus dude
crazy seeing you here from a video 5 years ago
When i saw whiplash for the first time, i was so freaked out that he was able to count 215 by memory and i thought at some point i’d need to be able to do that as a musician
I’m pretty sure what everyone misses about that scene is fletcher is just fucking with him. Like maybe he was leading or lagging a bit and maybe it’s something neeman needed to work on, but it was an excuse for fletcher to break him down and there was NO RIGHT ANSWER Neaman could have given. You can see it on all the other musicians faces, they’ve all been hazed by him so they all look away in discomfort because they know he’s just gonna scream at him and throw shit until he breaks down
@@swarthygiant1463 exactly. There’s more nuance to these details than simply being right or wrong, or realistic or not. Things are taken to extremes due to the extreme characters being portrayed- same with how he counts everybody in. He could be doing it an “alternative” way to keep them on their toes and like you’re saying, have any excuse to go off and “inspire greatness” through humiliation.
You don’t have to know that by heart right away, but it helps to know what it kinda feels like
@@swarthygiant1463 he was exactly on
@@swarthygiant1463 exactly
Biggest part to take from this is that it's about the Obsessed Artist, not Jazz.
So like Black Swan?
@@benl.4577 yeah
yeah, honestly I think Adam sorta missed the mark in that he based his criticisms off of it being a jazz film, rather than a drama. if anything the music takes a backseat to the relationships and dynamics between characters; yes there were a couple things that really threw me off (Fletcher calling a setlist a, "playlist," for example, like the fuck?) but otherwise I feel like we need to remember this was BASED ON musical education, not a direct copy of it. we even see the lower grade teacher being sympathetic and laid back with his students at the beginning - Fletcher is MEANT to be unfun and uncaring. otherwise the film wouldn't have a point.
@@heckicusdoomicuswizardus1382 i think you can criticize it from both angles
@tárrega is god prove me otherwise yeah
Neither of them create.
Hey Adam, I am one of the guys back there in the trumpet section in the "studio band". You are correct that the guys with speaking roles were not pro musicians. I was the only "real trumpet player" back there, and the rest of the band was about half real musicians, half actors. As you know, this was a low budget film. One of the prerequisites for those actors when they auditioned for a role in the film was that they had to bring their own instrument. THAT LOW BUDGET! The other three trumpet players played in elementary school or middle school and brought their horns with them to the shoot.
Additionally, it was interesting that there wasn't a music supervisor present to make sure all musicians looked realistic while playing. There were numerous times where those of us that were the real musicians had to advise the actors how to hold the horn or not to have a trumpet mouthpiece in the trombone (yes this really happened).
Also, yes I sharped that 9. You can see me nodding my head in the film ;) Those of us who are real musicians had a good laugh about that line on the set. But hey...I just do as I'm told, I'm not the director!
Woaaah!
Thanks for the comment. Keep it sharp bro. Haha
hey Drew, since you were in the movie, maybe you can tell me who did the actual drumming parts? I looked everywhere and nobody is credited for this... i know Teller couldn't have done all that stuff himself.
Did you get paid any when you advised them on how to "play" their instruments right? Because you just gave something to a $49M movie for free.
Kyle Crane (a fantastic drummer here in LA) was the hands of Miles Teller for close up shots. For much of the actual recordings with the full big band though, I'm not sure. I believe they did a non-union recording session with local studio guys in LA. Those types of sessions are usually kept on the down low. They did not use any of the actual recording of the band playing live (thank goodness, it was ugly).
As a member of fight club.. I’m not allowed to talk about it
HIS NAME IS ROBERT PAULSON
As a member of fight club... What's fight club?
HIS NAME IS ROBERT PAULSON
@@Kenanssss you forgot the first rule
as a member of
Ironically, the guy you called a “jock” was the actual recorded drummer on the tracks
Actually, wasn't it the guy who played the core drummer, Tanner? I read somewhere that Nate Lang (Tanner - the guy who asked Andrew to tune his drums to Bb) was the guy who trained Miles Teller.
Being passionate about niche music genres indeed doesn't always mean you don't make time for going to the gym. Now, that said, most of us don't make the time needed to get that shredded unless via the luck of the gene pool. 😝
@@moviemaestro800 you could be in any gene pool, if you want to be that jacked, that's several hours of training per day, or roids, + tons of food that a US student can't afford unless it's his priority in life and part of his training. At least, on planet earth, that's how it goes. In your imagination, perhaps you'd like to think some people "are born like that". That's cute.
I don't literally think people are born jacked, but there are definitely genetic advantages for certain individuals.
@@moviemaestro800yea like rodis
6:14 Fletcher knew Andrew was on tempo, he was just trying to get under his skin to make him practice harder. He said later in the movie "there are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." Flecther was afraid that if he gave Andrew credit, he would get lazy.
imo all the explanation needed is that Fletcher's a raging narcissist
@@donsanchodelapanza i say both of you are correct. He is a narcissist in a sense that he wants all the attention on him, but at the same time I've had professors that are strict and brought out the best of students of course not in an abusive manner as in the movie, as it seemed to be over exaggerated to strengthen the "tough love" theme.
Exactly, this UA-camr knows about jazz but doesn’t seem to understand the movie is about mind games and manipulation. Fletcher is trying to make him better but is also fucking him up to do it. I played in band and I have to push this move because too much of this hits home and I get angry or start sweating. This dude was my band director.
@@fightingblindly There's a comment by Ian Mertz in this very same comment section (not this thread, lol) who says they came from the very same high school and band program that the director, Damien Chazelle, came from. I think you'd appreciate its perspective as it does highlight specifically what you're talking about, and why both you and Adam got completely different takeaways from it. In short, it feels like competitive high school band because it _is_ - a high school experience adapted to an "adult" setting, which is why a professional musician like Adam doesn't connect with it at all
So he's a jackass for the better of his students.
But he never says that, so while we know that, but the people he's teaching just makes him look like a jackass and making it not fun to play jazz or music and people might not want to play anymore.
As a billionaire orphan who fights crime at night, The Dark Knight was...okay.
Lol
Say hi to Elon for me
Not funny
No
😂😂😂
As a filmmaker, watching a movie in a tablet, in the middle of a park, it's not okay!
I agree!
exactly!
Disagree lmao.
yep crawls my skin
For an introvert, even just sitting outdoors is a challenge enough let alone with a tablet and a movie!
I think the scene of Fletcher in the jazz club was more of a way to show just how stuck in the past he was, and how mediocre of a player he really was. Which makes his motivation to force Neeman to succeed even more complex, almost like how a mother may use a beauty pageant to force their daughter to succeed where they could not so that they could selfishly live their dream vicariously.
On another note, throughout the film, I always saw Neeman portrayed more as an outsider to the Jazz world, clinging on to the idealized vision of Buddy Rich that he was basically given to him by his dad. The scene at the dinner table pretty much solidifies that aspect of his character, and how he idealized the past just as much as Fletcher does. Neither of them are willing to move into the future of jazz.
spot on, thanks for the comment
interesting take. i always just looked at it more simply and thought that the lameness of the music was to set the tone for that part of the movie: it’s like the “calm before the storm moment” since the movie has been so tense for so long, they were giving us a little break and allowing the characters to reconcile, only to reverse the tone again for the finale
Fletcher wasn’t even a mediocre player he just ironically enough played the very music he hated after Neiman got him fired
if he considers the typical starbucks jazz soundtracks as mediocre, then he should be able to recognize that he himself sounds just as bad if not worse. if there was a scene of fletcher being insecure or not proud of his performance then your theory could've made sense, but idk he seemed pretty proud of his performance. well-trained musicians are generally able to evaluate their own performance as well.
Coaches don't play
This video wasn't quite my tempo
Badum tssss
Hahhahahaahahahahahahaahahahaa
Was it dragging, or was it rushing?
@johnson. Start counting.
@johnson. *slaps* was I dragging or was I rushing?!
As a stupid person, Dumb & Dumber was... okay.
I concur
"Kick his ass, Sea bass!"
this, this is the best one
The irony is that you are the most brilliant of all to come up with this comment! 👏👏😅
@Adarsh Sureshkumar - The irony is that that kind of statement comes from you. 😜😄
Mirror, mirror, tell me, who is that mirror I see in the mirror?
This isn’t a movie about overcoming obstacles, it’s a movie about obsession.
The movie makes me think of how educators should strike a good balance between how they treat students ... do they get to be a tyrant due to their position as teachers regardless of whether their intentions are good ?
I would say it's about ambition, as every Chazelle movie is. Career versus love
I agree, a lot like black swan
Obsession and competition, like he said, a sports movie but with jazz.
Yeah. f#%& obstacles!
The scene of Fletcher playing the most bland jazz you could ever listen anywhere I believe was entirely intentional. But he did a great job at that! I felt like it was exactly the opposite of what he demanded from his students, even tossing in some unintended sharps or flats would have given it some more jazz flavor. It’s the ultimate ‘do as I say, not as I do!’
great comment
I saw it as fletcher being defeated. He’d lost all prestige along with his class. He had fallen from greatness and was left playing the opposite of what he preached because he could no longer preach. It just built more tension towards the final performance being a sort of last hope for his career before he fades into obscurity, left to playing bland, safe “jazz.”
Theorizing in-universe explanations for mistakes, plotholes, or other writing weaknesses typically are some of the less interesting critical/fan discussions of fiction. In this case though, I've found them pretty intriguing. Given the rest of the original soundtrack, and other mistakes especially things like having young people idolize someone who even the fustiest, most uncreative stick-in-the-mud ancient old fogey would have regarded as more of a normie celebrity than a pioneer, it seems pretty unlikely that this was deliberate. The jazz Fletcher played there, though, is so very egregiously awful that it would have to be that he was completely broken as a man or a total fraud the whole time or something of the sort. And there's nothing in Simmons's or Teller's performance that suggests he's being reacted to that way. Hell, there's nothing in the audience's reaction to suggest it. And no way could he get away with that in that setting; he'd probably be dragged off that stage with a hook as the paying audience was on the verge of riot. Why not have Andrew find Fletcher playing in an actual Starbucks, in the Paramus Mall or something, if that was the objective? (Though that would indeed be a very different movie since Fletcher indeed didn't really fall that far in the movie; he is playing the JVC after all!) Ultimately it really doesn't remotely fit however interesting the theory is.
@@salvadorromero9712 I think it’s fun to theorize but you’re right in saying usually these little plot holes are just slip ups on the writers part. About this movie in particular I like Scott Neely’s (I think) perspective. He added a little line is his video somewhere along the lines of “this movie isn’t made with the intention of loving jazz but with the intention of making a good movie.” They didn’t pay that much attention to exactly what the characters were doing and playing and that made it lack soul, but I’ll say they did end up with a pretty damn entertaining movie.
@@salvadorromero9712Odd comment. You might be a jazz critic and hate the music, but technically it's just bland jazz. The entire point of the scene is that the manic, obsessive idea of "greatness" he instills in Andrew is nowhere to be found - just a man playing jazz in a club.
It's not a movie about jazz, it's about striving for greatness. The sports movie analogy was spot on.
I think it’s about toxic relationships in the end fletcher won his abusive and toxic teachings consumed him
I agree with both, but it's when Nieman takes the reins of the finale performance that he achieves greatness, I can see it a bit in the way all other musicians perform that piece, like they feel liberated. In a weird way, this movie reminds me of "Training Day".
It's about both......
I’m sorry sports movie? Does everything have to be about sports??
Look up Bobby Knight and what he did to his basketball team.
As a film student, this film was... excellent.
No really, it’s brilliant.
@@weidnermusic
and you are what?
@@weidnermusic Damn bro you’re so mysterious.
@@weidnermusic Because*
PS I finished my film degree lol.
@@weidnermusic Will do buddy🖤
(Sureeeeeeellllllllyyyyyy)
I have never been more mad while watching a movie
It’s not a jazz movie. It’s a not drummer movie. It’s a story of passion, discouragement, and grit.
And whether or not to Raisinet one's popcorn.
It's not simple. People's reactions are too complex for it to be that simple.
Lol it is it's super overrated
It was a movie about neurotic abuse.
Nothing to do with music or drive towards excellence.
In real life the band conductor (also known as fascist prick) would have been knocked out almost immediately. If not by one of his students, then by one of the parents.
Hollywood is silly sometimes.
@@PetraKann its not that hollywood is silly, but that movies in general tend to take a more exaggerated approach to things to make you feel it even more. If he was just slightly abusive and toxic, we wouldn’t have such a divide in how people see him as either an abuser, or a genius who pushed hos students forward. Its also telling of how people see the world.
I had a band teacher in high school who was almost as bad as Fletcher. Took 4 years to get him fired and actually sent to court for all he did, but he traumatized pretty much all the students he ever met.
It’s distressing that we’re exposing minors to literal psychopaths with power over them
We had an angry angry frustrated jazz player - he lost most of the better musicians over non-musical issues - haircuts, earrings, etc.
How scary
Sorry, but- I need to know what he did
Basically on the same boat, but my band teacher never went to court. As a matter of fact, the school district essentially protected him and he retired back in 2019. He essentially terrorized the students and there were also SA accusations. There was also a student who lived with him
My interpretation of the scene with Fletcher playing in the jazz club was more to show that he was a hypocrite. Fletcher demands that his students constantly push themselves to reach musical excellence even though he himself as a musician is uninspired and amateur. I thought it gave him more dimension as a character since it revealed that his passion for teaching came from a belief that if he himself could never be a great musician, at least he might be able to inspire one of his students to become one.
He's a man trying to live his dreams through his students
@@suicidalloafofbread2009 by being an ass about it, got it.
@@Spherehead123 The boy is angry
Totally agree
Or perhaps he believed that had he been pushed by a teacher the way he pushes his students, he might have become a great musician?
I always figured when Fletcher was asking him to count a specific tempo, it wouldn’t matter what Andrew counted: he was trying to break him.
That's what I was thinking.
Obviously; he has a method of getting his target students lulled into thinking he's a nice guy and then he pounces on them by declaring nothing they do is good enough. The way he savaged the poor horn player who thought he was out of tune is another example. He wanted to hammer that poor bloke to get rid of him while making an example of him to intimidate the rest of them.
@Mark Donald In the world of this film, though, it's worth it to them to tolerate a certain amount of abuse if they think it will advance their careers. In real life this is more of an athletic thing, which is what Adam means when he says it's a sports movie.
They make that abundantly clear with the mistake from the horn player who makes the mentally weak, but better player leave to teach the mentally stronger player a lesson, because he's teaching via psychological manipulation, not pure skill alone. This scene comes right before that and makes it clear, and even if you didn't get it, he later says that that's what he was doing. To misinterpret that pretty much makes you mentally deficient. I mean, that's literally what the movie was about. Psychological manipulation and fletcher being the symbol of unrealistic inadequacy in perfectionists. It seems that some people have never been there and just can't grasp this as a result, like a colorblind person trying to see ultraviolet.
As a professional memes critic, this comment section was...okay
😂😂👌
@@Carlos-np7du no
@@Znjed0 yes
@@Carlos-np7du maybe
You've won the war
The part that Andrew played 215 was perfect and jk was mad at him to just break him into tears not because he was not good enough it was because he wanted to break him so he could control him in the future
I felt so bad for Andrew in that scene. He shoulda stood up and slapped Mr Fletcher in the face 💀
As a persons whose dog died, John wick was ok
Scorchu231 _ omg 😂😂😂😂
stitches, is what I'm on now 😂😂😂😂
Whose who's what?
As a person whose dog died, Frankenweenie was ok
*whose, *damnit*
As an entomologist, the Bee Movie was... ok
Ya like jazz?
1.9 likes 1 reply say whaaaaaaaaaat
-As a secret agent, Men In Black was...-
*_This comment has been erased_*
Finally someone that adds a twist
Ikr I've been scrolling for too long now
Underrated
Neuralized /Neuralised?
Perfect
Jazz is not the point of the movie. The movie wasn’t supposed to make people feel inspired about music. It wasn’t supposed to raise jazz on some sort of platform. The point of the movie was to create a story about a person who just wants to be remembered. The problem with that is that throughout the movie he is losing himself along the way. So by the end of the movie his EX has a new boyfriend and his dad doesn’t even recognize his son anymore. The only one who actually gives him approval for his toxic actions is his toxic teacher who had been emotionally manipulating him throughout the entire movie and finally got what he wanted.
Yeah, that’s what he said
The point of the movie was to make you think about what the acceptable amount of trade off is to push people to greatness.
In some respects the "point" of nearly all good fiction is the characters and their human story. The setting is merely stage decoration. But the objection here is that it wasn't successfully made to fit. I could write a story about immortal insectoid scientists on a spaceship of intergalactic conquest. I could make that choice of circumstance for my characters. But if I don't then write them convincingly as to how a passion for the pursuit of science, or immortality, or a peripatetic or military lifestyle, etc.--these things that I have chosen to assign for them--would tend to affect the way one views and interacts with the world, I can't just say, "It's about the characters, bro. Just listen to the story I'm trying to tell." I have a serious flaw in my fiction.
So yes, when these musicians' criticism of the movie spills over into talk basically about whether the film is "good for jazz," as though they were evaluating promotional material or something, obviously that's not something anyone else is going to be interested in. But that's focusing on a marginal, least interesting part of their criticism. The issue of whether the story is being told true to the jazz setting is very much an important one, and certainly can't be dismissed by claiming that "jazz is not the point of the movie."
While I agree with you mostly, the shot of the look on his dad's face at the end is more telling. In that moment, he finally understood.
What dragons_red said. Anyone who feel they have a universal answer to that question though is most likely a horrible person and/or a moron. It's a very personal question that only a person themselves can answer.
As a marine biologist, The Spongebob Squarepants movie was...okay
As a marine biologist, Diamond is Unbreakable was... okay
you take that back
>:I
funny thing the creator of Spongebob is a marine biologist himself.
was* :(
😂😂😂
As a penguin, Penguin’s Of Madagascar was....ok
What about club penguin?
@@PositiveVibes94 ok
No
wow good one, did you come up with it yourself
As a blind person, Daredevil was... Ok
And how would you know, Blindy?
Oh yeah? Have you even WATCHED it? 🤔
That was good one
I love the internet.
He's blind, he can't read your comments
I would like to point out the fact that Miles Teller played the majority of the drumming scenes himself, with only a few audio edited in where it didn't write line up. But I want to give credit where credit is due. He is truly an amazing actor and did truly amazing in this role.
Also, the dinner scene with his family, so freaking accurate. Especially growing up in Texas, football is such a big deal that the fine arts are often overlooked by people who don't understand them and therefore don't care about them.
Man, that dinner table scene, for ANY musician, anywhere in the world, is spot on. NONE of your extended family thinks much of you "playing in a band" - it's always simply a punchline for them, as in always asking you, "How's the "BAND" going?" as if mocking you that you're not famous yet.
I grew to HATE that question, and to squelch any further discussion, I would simply say, "OK" and that was it, never going into detail about gigs or achievements or songs or studio work, etc. Just shut up and leave me alone.
@@jondunmore4268 do not talk to your family forever.
For a supertalented drummer it was not enough. So overrated. I wish there were less scenes of him playing.
I thought music was a big deal in texas?
@@Caff-pv8fgOnly if you are in that scene. I do recognize that Texas does have one of the better band and music communities, however if you are not a part of it then it's kind of forgotten about. At least that's how it has come across in my personal experience.
I never cease to amaze myself with how little I really know about music.
Word
@@Gunbudder theory will help us play better tho
To me, there's nothing much to "know", really. All the terminology are soooo...made-up. Music should just be a hobby. Someone was lazy to go out and do work for money, so they complicated music and made it out to be some kind of intense field of study so that they get paid for "specialising" in it.
@@yueshijoorya601 lmao, what a pathetic comment.
@@yueshijoorya601 Something a dumb person would say.
As a student, Diary of a Wimpy Kid was ... Okay
Same 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That series wasn't that good to be honest...
The movies however...
@@lifeontheledgerlines8394 shut the frick up boomer it was amazing
@@flolorm2349 Uh I'm 15.
Sorry if you disagree with me, some of it was pretty funny but some of it was meh. That's just how I feel.
Well, I hope you have a nice day (or night depending on your time zone). Sorry I upset you.
As someone who laughs randomly, The Joker was... Ok
Jeffrey Wong u got tics bro? Same.
No, it was bad.
Those are actually seizures.
Herman Falck How what the fuck, how??
There's this guy that comes into the store I work in that does actually laugh randomly and I've wondered what he would say about Joker.
i actually go to school with the young actor for andrew. he told me he asked the director if he wanted him to play a paradiddle, and the director told him to just play whatever. justice for sam campisi!
Liar. My dad works in youtube and I'll have him delete your account.
As a Jedi, Star Wars was...okay.
You really are everywhere aren’t you😂
@@rjohnson2018 when you have the high ground. yes.
Hello there!
Aaaaaay 420th like
I’m not gay or anything but I would put you on a dinner plate and eat you like a salad
As a serial killer, The Silence of the Lambs was…….okay
😂 this is the best one
Lmao
@@foreveruseless1292 lol
Lmaoo
@@sinpi314 lol
As a Brazilian, Adam watching a movie on a tablet AT NIGHT at a park was... not okay.
"As a person from Latin America"
Straight facts
kkkkkkkk bem not okay
EXATAMENTE O QUE EU PENSEI
duas horas, com fone de ouvido, concentrado SENTADO NUM BANCO DE PRAÇA???
Exato. Realidades totalmentes diferentes
The chair hierarchy might not be a thing in jazz bands, but it absolutely exists in marching bands. 1st chairs typically play solos, main melodies, and the more complex music parts. They are considered the best musicians for their sections, and all members of the band audition for their chair placement.
I was about to say in high school the chair numbers pretty much ranked how good the musicians were
Yeah definitely. The people who always get 1st part are so impressive to me. Marching band is honestly so much more difficult than people give it credit for.
same with HS orchestra except for basses, we were always just shoved in behind everyone lol
As a somali pirate, pirates of the Caribbeans was... okay
Ok JOHN WICK
I thought you were going to say "Captain Phillips"!
As a historian this comment was.. not ok.
@@Astronaut-ve9sr why
@@sophiaseth2769 Because Somalia is not in the Caribbean
As a basketball player, Space Jam was PERFECT
FUCK! I thought this hasn't been said yet! XD
SLAM
JAM
THANK YOU MA'AM
Movie is not that good. go watch it again, its just no that funny/interesting.
@@sethedmonds5996 Shame on you. Criticizing a masterpiece like that. But really, it isn't a bad of a movie as people say it is.
Amen
As a time traveler, Back To The Future was ok...
As a time traveler, Back to the Future will be ok...
Carlos Eduardo Agostini beat me by one week
@Boris Wilcox - Naturally.
This is exactly how I would picture an actual jazz musician criticizing anything
😆
I think some people in the comments are forgetting that the review is being delivered by a MUSICIAN not a FILM CRITIC
I’m not a film critic. But I am still able to identify what is important in a film, and I also know that watching a film with the intent of scouring it for inaccuracies is not the right way to go about it.
So, what is important in a film? Showing life as it is, every day, for most people - in this case, musicians? Well, sure, sometimes. But not in Whiplash, and not in most films. This is a film about exploring the themes of obsession and abuse. It is a visual marvel and it is full of excellent characters. “Realism” is hardly important, because this is a unique story, told with purpose. It’s not going to be Adam Neely’s life.
He’s not reviewing the cinematography or anything, he’s just saying how it actually compares to jazz school.
@@RuhrRedArmy agreed!
@@RuhrRedArmy The right way about it is definitely not you deciding what is or isn't right. Realism is hardly important _to you_ for this film. But it is a movie about jazz. And a lot accurate information is portrayed right, which people like you conveniently ignore in favor of pretentiously praising "the themes" the film portrayed, because you don't care about music. The director sure does, and because you don't care, you think it's not right to care when it comes to criticism.
@@SuperUnunquadium If I would take anything back, then I would retract saying there is a "right way" to watch a film. I still disagree it is about realism, but even if we frame it in that way, Rick has no ground to stand on. He hasn't actually seen the film, he's seen a trailer for mass audiences. If YOU think it's inaccurate, that's one thing, but he has no rounded view of the film. If you care about "the music," that's fine - I do too - but there are other elements to the film. I also disagree that "the music" = realism. That's a strange way of looking at it. I care about music too, but a film can be about "the music" without sticking to the ordinary.
Ok was Memento, as a tattoo artist.
Niiiice
deep pull.
Too bad not enough people have seen this to appreciate this kind of clever comment
underrated
daaaaaaamn
as a paleontologist, _Jurassic Park_ was... okay.
Now that, that comment... Bravo.
WOW I love this comment😂👍
Not nearly enough likes on this comment! :)
@@olivermitchell4968 im pretty sure Hollywood is NOT in the business of reality.......just saying.
@@ok-ms3ke the reason theres only one "accurate jazz school movie" is because nobody gives a fuck to go see a movie regarding that subject matter, as evidenced by this films poor box office proceeds and lack of critical acclaim. Although JK simmons is an absolute fucking treat in this film, makes me want to shit on his chest.
I was in a jazz band playing piano, and one of two players, so we had to take turns playing. Trouble is, I never had jazz training, don't read music note by note, don't follow the count, never practiced, but the band director was pretty chill, our music transcribing sessions we would play online js games, and he would sneak us out to McDonalds for breakfast. Don't even know why I joined that band.
well, seems like an fun time even if it wasn’t very highbrow lmao. sometimes all a person needs is a group of blokes to do fuck all with
As Django, being unchained was... okay.
As a slave, django unchained was....okay
@@eyelashes5610 lol this is funnier and goes with the comment structure.
I wanted to add a philosophical touch so I wrote it from the perspective of Django and how for him even getting freedom was okay only. You see, I am a monk hence philosophy. 😇
@@minimalism2o2o yeah no yours was good too
@@eyelashes5610 Thanks Fortnite. 😆
@@minimalism2o2o Boy this thread is wholesome, and I love it!
As a meth dealer, Breaking Bad was . . . ok
i'm am reporting you to cops
Mazarin IV shut
@@jogolord8122 what's that supposed to mean?
@@mazarinivmikeoxlong-dedica969 up
@@nelsonnicholson6175 woah
19:48 After rewatching the movie a couple times, I interpreted Fletcher's mediocrity in jazz playing to show that he isn't really that talented of a player himself, and therefore all the more felt the need to find a talented student to teach to carry on his legacy, since he didn't have the talent to do so himself. It probably doesn't make sense that a professor at a prestigious music school in NYC isn't that great of a jazz player himself, but I like what it does from a narrative perspective.
exactly this. Paired with his comment about Starbucks Jazz album... is probably a comment he has received himself! He comes across as someone loathing his own limitations to a point where he projects it onto other's performance.
I thought he was kind of burned out after being thrown off the school. This was now the weaker and maybe softer Fletcher playing, with less bite. (Of course this idea gets negated later the in the movie but when first watching the scene it's the first time you see Fletcher after he was thrown out). Also: In the movie all the glory and all the fun is to be had in big venues and in front of important people. Playing in a small club for just ordinary music lovers seemed to be pictured as a dawn fall for a once great musician.
My interpretation as well.
Consider mediocrity a little bit more kindly for a while, and maybe you'll form a different idea of the wrong kind of talent-focus. Why? Well let's face it, pretty much all of us have at least some element of mediocrity (even if that is a non-self-aware complete failure to be humble about having much to be humble about). This means that a world that is harsh on mediocrity is harsh on most people.
So it's a world that fails maybe even 85% of the time?
A world that is needlessly harsh on its inhabitants could hardly be called a "success", surely?
(Sorry that this is so tangentially related to this movie, but this is the line of thinking that this review has triggered in me, so this is all I'm able to contribute to the discussion. And any thread in which the competitive premises of the "sports film" aspect of this movie are unchallenged - perhaps even taken as givens, but that's not necessary) "retriggers" me.)
Yes, those setting out to make a living out of music look like they need to prepare to face quite a dog-eat-dog world, but even that has little to do with the Music. And I would think that the only truly excellent musicians are ones that are almost entirely driven along in a quite pure way, by Music. It's a great example of something that motivates people to do great things without needing any "social darwinism". Getting the gig might require some cutthroating, but getting accepted in the long term in some band requires a set of motivations more like those driving someone to e.g. produce beautiful equations, than those driving someone to "win" commercially, for the pleasure of seeing how the competition loses. This is a way in which humanity achieves much excellence without having to jibber and twitch back to some kind of warlike loser-production process.
In context, this more competitively told music tale could have been made more interesting by simply exposing the hollowness of Fletcher's way of seeing things. (No, I don't know how. It's always easy to criticise/ destroy things; always hard to create/ make).
But back to us poor old mediocre mass shuffling our incompetent way through life. Why should any of us lacking talent of the first order ascribe to a set of values that sets our value to zero? (At the extreme, that's what this version of "excellence" does). Why not just completely reject such stories as of no interest to any but the 1% they're told about?
I exaggerate, of course.
This might seem a bit of a "left-field" (and I've only ever played cricket, not baseball) illustration of a better way, but consider Parkrun. (If you've never heard of this, look it up; it's a brilliant, simple idea that is changing the lives of many who need this, instead of few, who don't really need what they get from running). I won't go into details. Look it up if you're interested. My assertion is that Parkrun is the kind of running that the world as a whole needs, and that something like marathons have let humanity down pretty badly by comparison.
At school, running (and in the wrong hands, even music) is framed in competitive terms. If you run, you're either running to win, or to supply a necessary loser for there to be a proper race. Just about everybody gets a chance to lose; one person gets to win; if that person is defeated, I suppose he gets to double-lose. Lots of losing goes on. A purely competitive world is a world in the business of mass-producing losers. (It also produces a tiny few winners - at things that don't matter, much of the time). The world needs to imagine something better than this if it's to defeat the stupid ideas of the ancients.
School running leads adults toward the couch. Once released on parole from the school system, nobody is going to try and force you to do what's good for you any more. Even if you've done a whole bunch of winning in that system, once you are set free, nobody is going to force you to harm yourself to achieve something that now seems (and quite probably is) pointless any more. There's the couch. Those joggers out there are mad.
Now the thing is that running can be a joy, as long as you just stay in your own world and don't consume the poison of comparison. Take good enough care to not hurt yourself, and you'll find that you can run quite a long way without getting out of puff, and enjoy it, much as you would have enjoyed a walk of similar duration. This is a mediocre form of running, to be sure, but it sure beats living life as a spectator.
And your homework is to translate the deep wisdom I've hinted might be found in the simple act of shambling along happily to musical terms. :-) Either that or get yourself an instrument, or teach yourself the art of tuneless whistling. You'll probably reach the same conclusions and have more fun along the way.
20 year associate professor, never got tenure. . . They are out there!
If you're looking for another Jazz Movie in pop culture, id suggest looking at Pixar's "Soul". I personally really liked it for the love of jazz that it portrays through the characters and at the animators own hands!
Love that one! Cried every time watching it! So relatable!
I also recommend Walk the line with Joaquin Phoenix, great movie about music and passion, not just a competition movie like whiplash
Could have been such a good movie if it wasn’t just a kiddie film.
@@ninjireal i think youre still mentally immature/underdeveloped if you genuinely thought Soul didnt have mature emotional themes/undertones that adults could pick up on and relate to lol
"Soul" is such an underrated movie!! It should be up there in the charts
As a salesman, The Office was... ok
Can confirm
HOW DARE YOU
Remove ur mouth
BUTTLICKER! OUR PRICES HAVE NEVER BEEN LOWER!!!
which one
As a person with hairy feet, The Lord of the Rings was...okay
very good comment
The hairs make getting the ring off easier.
I experienced a lot more "Whiplashing" in high school to be honest. That director was ultimately removed, but those personalities unfortunately do exist in jazz education. I think he thought it was his mission to weed out anyone not super dedicated to music.
Same. I wasn't in jazz band for too long but I was in band and yes...the throwing things (not at students but near them), the insults, the "band should be the only thing in your life", etc. was everywhere in my music education. 3/5 of my band directors were fired for mistreating students in a variety of ways. My first band director was fired for refusing to change a zero grade for a soloist who had gotten into a car accident on the way to her concert.
I found that those personalities also existed among the students, even more so than among the instructor should they enable it/allow it to fester. My high school band was incredibly toxic, we were always at each other’s throats because the director simply chose to ignore the drama instead of making sure people got along.
People who love music breed contempt in others who are obsessed with music, but don't understand love. They make new rules, where love is never enough - only obsession is.
@@becuzMDsaidineededpersonality wow, like what happened in the movie in a way omg
This would also align with the writer/director's actual experience too. I kind of wish it did take place in the setting, but I supposed they wanted the real life stakes to be higher (main character being closer to adulthood, trying to make his mark on the world)
Personally I, as a brass player myself, took the "sharp the ninth" as playing said sharp ninth especially sharp so it rings well in the chord. Some notes and intervals have to be played flat or sharp so they fit.
Exactly. This guy obviously never played a wind instrument lol. Meanwhile he’s nitpicking every tiny detail when he should have realized stuff like this himself and not assume that he is right just because he went to music school.
As a person who owns a carpet, the big lebowski was... okay
that carpet really ties the room together dude
Rug. I don't think they say "Carpet" once in that whole movie.
They fuckin peed on my rug, man
@Thomas Wake yygyyyyyyyyyyy
As a certified ogre, Shrek was…… ok
It's called JCPenney Jazz
What are you talking about? Shrek is love, Shrek is life!!!
You are one of the worst humanity's enemie
As a drug , do me
fucking annoying ass redditors please just let the shitty meme die
In order to properly analyze this movie, I watched it on an ipad outside with a bunch of other shit happening around me.
LMFAO😂😂 got a fair point mate🙍
Man, that triggered me so hard. It made difficult to avoid a negative bias towards him and keep watching the video.
"Five, six, and..." is not used anymore that much even for 7/4, thus it's cringy. How is this a point to be discussed in a video? Fletcher is clearly a very picky band leader, counting "five, six, and" only underlines his urge to train the band to the most possible "perfect" it can reach.
I really like Adam Neely and all of his videos, but that makes no sense to me.
nicely put.....
you watched it on your tablet in the middle of a park? that probably one of the worst ways to consume a movie
1:08 Part 1: What the movie got right
4:46 Part 2: What the movie got mildly wrong
8:15 Part 3: What the movie got... like... almost right
11:48 Part 4: Terrence Flecher
14:55 Part 5: Buddy Rich
18:34 Part 6: The soundtrack
22:00 Part 7: This is a sports movie
25:13 Part 8: Music is, like fun
4:11 : fun fact
Doing god's work
20:48 Questionable Conducting
@@JoePaquin26 Indeed, that shit was wild :D
I wish he'd put this in his description
As a jazz educator myself (at the high school level), my first goal was to get my students in love with jazz. I constantly hid the lick around, had jazz playing in my room, and picked a wide variety of music that reflected the genre and its history. The result is a really solid group that loves jazz. Whether the band performs well and gets placed highly in their yearly assessment is secondary to me. I want them to love jazz for the sake of loving jazz. I strongly agree with your last point here.
What does “hid the lick” mean again guys?
@@christopherg1288 dododododoooo dadoo
You are AWESOME.
My jazz instructor made me love jizz too
@@sekanoms ayo?
As a Nazi, Inglorious Bastards was...okay.
Omfg this one takes the cake by a mile and a half xD
hahahaha- wait
Wait, that's illegal
Winner
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a Winner
It’s not a movie about what it’s like to be a jazz drummer, it’s a movie about somebody who is obsessed with greatness.
As a deer hunter. Bambi was ok.
@Telespectador Pensante. Deer meat is good
@Telespectador Pensante. Lol
As a deer, Bambi was ok.
What about her mother?
What about Deer Hunter?
As an executioner, the Passion of the Christ was... okay.
stohp
666th like
stupid...
@@Darthrocker06 no u
As a Mentally Disabled Fish, Finding Dory was... What was i talking about?
You mean that South Park episode with Kanye West?
Criminally underrated comment
@@tokenofdevotion right?
@@tokenofdevotion not really
Best comment!
"It didn't happen to me, so it doesn't happen anywhere!"
Nice one, bro.
As a mathematician, Good Will Hunting vastly overestimates how many girlfriends we can get and underestimates how many therapy sessions we go to.
Please, math, I can’t solve your problems right now, I have a lot of my own.
Looks like you would like A Beautiful Mind :3
Well to be fair Will doesn't really care for his gift, so he has more "freedom", if you like, to get chicks and therapy.
As a pretentious jazz musician, this video was... perfect
Lmaooo
Burnnnnn!
Exactly he's a loser
🤣
Yesssss
as a chemist, breaking bad was...okay
As a drug dealer, breaking bad was... okay
as a pharmacist, breaking bad was... okay
as a meth addict, breaking bad was... okay
Jai Cabardo as a math teacher who has cancer and then turned to cooking meth to pay for my treatment, breaking bad was... okay
As a geologist... They’re MINERALS!!!
As a jazz musician, this film was extraordinarily accurate.
yeah the guy reviewing has no understanding of the actual implications and themes of the movie
Because of the fierce competition？
@@3n3j0t4no cuz dude, i have no idea how this man took a feature of the movie as a flaw
like how tf are students gonna be having fun if the mf is throwing chairs and insults?
@@hashly8521 idk he comes off as pretentious so I guess that’s it
@@3n3j0t4he knows what the themes are but he’s just point out jazz inaccuracies
The movie is about two characters and two characters only. Andrew and Fletcher. And the story is a tragedy of two people who forgot all the love of creation in their quest for perfectionism. I got this from the scenes where Fletcher plays in the bar (it was supposed to be melancholic and emotional, unlike all the stuff the band plays) and the scenes where Andrew watches Buddie, but usually only looking at technique, not really listening to the music. Also when he looks at the video of himself as a child playing the drums, this scene evokes the childlike creativity and carelessness, ie. the time he still had love for the music.
I actually imagine all the other students at the school going to concerts, talking about music and enjoying themselves at the music school. I think most of the other band players just think Fletcher is an ahole and suffer through his rants only for the opportunity to play in the band. However they also play in other bands at the school and with friends, so they don't really care. And Flecther doesn't care also, he sees them as just mediocre so he doesn't really bother with them.
It would've been useful one character to voice these other students
Man you described it so perfectly..
No this makes a lot of sense cause at the end when he finally reaches and perfects the song he stops hearing the music. There are times where he stops hearing all together and the only thing he focuses on is the technique. Its not for him to enjoy, hes only there to do good and move on.
It shows when he upstands his brothers? When they talked about football,
Theyre both narcissistic but they use each other for themselves. The acting is so fun to catch small things
Hot take: perfectionism isn't musical.
And people like Fletcher, frankly, just don't get music.
Your comment for some reason make me apreciate the pixar movie soul
Wish my jazz instructor knew he wasn’t supposed to “whiplash” a bunch of highschoolers… he also warped the Charlie Parker story, too.
I think what makes it even worse is knowing that if I had pursued Jazz in college like I had originally planned to, I would have met other people who were just passionate about music. I’m not religious, but when I was in a band and director actually let us play through an entire song that was probably the closest I came to having a religious experience.
I just wish my high school band department had been as competitive as it was. We were told that “you audition everyday”, but we were 14. I had 7 other classes to study for but if I don’t eat, drink, breath, and shit jazz I’m wasting you time? Jesus.
I’m just now picking up my sax after 8 years because I kept having nightmares about it. I couldn’t listen to jazz constructively without sobbing.
Have you tried gaming my G
see above
peace
@leafyv2 given they said they couldn't pick up the instrument again because they kept having nightmares after what they went through, I think you probably don't know better about what their teacher meant.
I’m the 666th like please don’t ruin the sanctity of such a thing
Also you’re welcome
As a Professional Virgin, Rent-A-Girlfriend was...okay.
This is legendary
Fak yeah
This should be everywhere
Goated
Bruhhhh
I find the music in whiplash to be beautiful as well as perfectly replicating each separate tone of each scene.
As a person with buttons for eyes, Coraline was... ok
this one is the top one I've seen 😂😂
Oh hell no
I love you xD
As a queen, Bohemian Rhapsody was...okay.
lol
@@blackfordoblique1965 to be fair, the two guys who can say “As a member of Queen” actually think the movie was the best thing since the invention of fire because they produced it.
The real criticism is that anyone who can say, “as a filmmaker” or “as someone who knows the actual history of Queen and has no desire to rewrite it” knows Bohemian Rhapsody was shite.
@@wellesradio Perhaps. I think I understand what you say except for what it is I owe for the honor of your sharing the clarification.
I appreciate it. It makes sense. But I still don't 'get it'. But I also know how dumb I can be.
@@wellesradio bruh this was a joke don't need to dissect it like a frog.
@@aniketo-o4356 Duh.
This movie came out my first semester as a freshman in music school, where I was studying jazz bass. Some friends and I watched it one night and it put the fear of god into us as we were only about a month into classes. Funny enough, we had a big band rehearsal one night and our director had seen the movie a week prior. He had a pretty good sense of humor, and another freshman in the horn section who had seen the movie messed a part up, so our director decided to have some fun and chased the horn player around the rehearsal hall with a chair. Everyone was terrified and then our director started laughing and was like "Ya'll must of watched that movie Whiplash. Don't worry that movie is bullshit."
It definitely depends on the school and the teacher.
your director must've had terrible fun!! hahaha
@@CalvinLimuel I just know he liked cussing out the big band...and it was definitely bad when there were multiple bassists, so there were days I had to come to class just to hear him cuss other people out...and not even get to play.
Jazz bass represent
So funny! I would have loved to be there!
While I may be a musician who now plays black metal on bass I do find this movie fairly accurate to my experience playing classical music on piano. I was forced into the competition of it all. I was forced to have mannerisms that weren’t natural to me as well as to not have fun. I despised it. All I wanted to do was play music, possibly preform. I didn’t want to be compared to others. When I switched to bass and metal for that matter it was much more relaxed. There was no rigid standards that I had to fit. Despite playing the least relaxing music out there I find playing it relaxing. When I played classical it was stressful and horrible. There was fear before the competitions I attended basically against my will. Now when I preform at local festivals and venues there’s no fear, just joy.
This movie isn’t so much about jazz, it’s more about the competition that comes with playing certain genres of music. Classical and jazz both have that aspect of competition and there are pressures that come along with it. Some may like the competition, but in my experience I have only ever seen it create toxic environments.
i agree but oh my god- not the point- i think this is kinda funny. i used to play piano and now i play bass. its like somewhat, piano players turn into bassists.
it's jazz dude not classical, the core idea about jazz itself is freedom not some dude gets iron jailed
Very great analysis. Whiplash is my favorite film simply based on its filmmaking and narrative merits; I don't know anything about jazz, but it was to hear a perspective on this film from someone who does understand jazz culture. However, I also never believed for a second that this movie's depiction of college jazz bands was realistic. Put simply, this isn't supposed to be a jazz movie - it's an obsession movie.
^^^^^^ yes. 100% about obsession. and also the mental process of trying to be a perfectionist and the consequences of falling into the 'rabbit' hole. There was another breakdown comparison analysis video on how the perfectionist (black swan) went through a mental breakdown for trying to get the part.
What are you doing here you silly goose, get back to making rants about Disney movies🤣
Agreed, when I watched the movie the focus for me wasn't whether this type of jazz culture was realistic so that aspect didn't really matter tbh
Yeah, just like with black swan, there's only so much that can go into research, specially if it's something the general audience won't notice.
Darkaero yes!! Thats the one! Thank you :)
Are hands supposed to bleed?? I mean... I am a drummer and after hours of practice nothing happened. IF YOU HOLD STICKS THE RIGHT WAY
Григорий Дубров once my hands almost started bleeding, but that’s only because some blisters on my hands burst...hurt like a bitch lol
Seems like the culprit would be sweat.
Sometimes you smack the shit out of the rim or something. I've done it (I am a "beginner" drummer only a couple years), and my friend who is an educated jazz drummer has done it too. Neither of us noticed until after we stopped playing. One of my friends loaned a snare to somebody and got it back with blood stains all over it from the same thing.
So I can definitely see that happening
Wait till you try to bend a string on a guitar and it cuts it through your ring finger, not using a pick could also spread blood all over.
Most injuries only happen if your fingers are already damaged though. Haha. Much love drummers!
@@33shin33 once while playing on a gig hit the strings with my finger and it hit right under my nail, it hurt like hell but i kept playing and after the song there was blood all over my guitar
When I was in the army (and now even years after) I would have the same experience with ANY portrayal of armed forces in movies; no matter how close they get it, it's always off enough that it just takes me right out of it. Little details; the way people speak on the radio, uniform and patches being totally wrong (NOBODY uses the neck velcro on ACUs... EVER!), etc. It's difficult to watch any portrayal of something that you are immersed in because no matter how close they get it to the real thing, it'll always be off in certain ways that would only be evident to someone who is living (or has lived) that experience themselves.
Sometimes the crappy cliches in war films are so terrible even we can see them.
Can you imagine how I feel as a STEM researcher?
@@_Olorin probably exactly the same because films rarely go into the scientific part.
I've found that to be true in literally every profession I've been involved in, from musician and recording engineer, to woodworker, and even (and especially), the state I live in in America.
I just try my hardest not judge others by such things, because in doing so, we will invariably be wrong far more often than right, and in some cases will never even once be right.
@David Baldon, could you elaborate on the radio chatter part? Do the movies get it too formal or not formal enough?
As a movie enthusiast I can't wrap my head how anyone would wanna watch a movie on a pad device. Kudos to you for noticing everything you did despite that factor.
I know, right? And some earbuds, and then in a park with all the distractions.
Same here - that was the FIRST mistake this guy made in watching this movie. When you watch a movie, you do so AT THE LEAST on a television screen, not with the distractions of a public park around you. This guy is all over the old-school aspects of the movie, but maybe it's going too far "new-school" in the way he consumes his media.
Right?!? Headphones are at least the right direction of you don't have a good surround system, but should only be used as a last resort really.
Especially for a musician, who should be the one person that recognizes how truly important audio AND video quality is.
I can hardly stand watching films in the theatre anymore because my home theatre is so much better, and the often poor audio at theatres can ruin the experience for me.
Really great headphones can be wonderful too though, but he's not using even decent ones by the look of it...
For reference, in high school bands, competitions and chairs being assigned by a hierarchy ARE a thing. This is very much a movie about being abused both by high school band directors and by the very systems they use, even if it wasn't intented that way.
This is also why you don't see a love of music in the movie. The creators have had all of their love for it drained from them by the inherently abusive structures of high school bands. Which means it's not necessarily accurate to actual professional jazz or post secondary jazz education.
I don't play my stuff much anymore because it nearly sucked all the love out of me. Thankfully, I still play for fun occasionally.
But really, this movie is a good measure for how much abuse can warp the perceptions of the things you love and even ruin them for you for life. And to how inherently abusive the way high school bands are structured that it apparently regularly does.
This is an excellent explanation, I am currently having that happen to me and I am now quiting because I don't want the fun and enjoyment to be ruined. Thank you for telling me the danger of what's possible. The best or worst part is that I am a jazz drummer and the director who makes me feel this way is also a bald douche.
This. I can say for a fact that 20 years ago chairs absolutely were a hierarchy and music was just as much about "being tough" as it was playing music. "Fun" was like a third or fourth consideration. Half the people were not music lovers. It was a contest and something to do. And let's not forget this movie got Oscar nominations. It's a film and a good one. The public at large wouldn't like jazz music.
yeah I noticed that too. the director was using his memory of chairs as a ranking from high school band (which is a thing that is still used in high schools) but that doesn't happen in college meaning that it doesn't work to someone that was actually in college jazz bands. However I wouldn't consider it any sort of slight on neely like I'm sure he understands why the movie has this constant mood of anger and resentment and competition it just doesn't work when analyzing it from a music standpoint
@@ForestGreenSharpie and it might happen in some universities. I think people are quick to say "ok this would NEVER happen anywhere!" and then people say "well it's a common thing in high school with 18 year olds" they say "well maybe but definitely not with 19 year olds at university!!" and I think they're nitpicking at that point.
I was in high school jazz band and we went to competitions with our school placing in the over many decades. Our teacher played no games and there were many times where swear words, music stand, and chairs were hurled
The most real thing to me was Fletcher throwing a chair. A band director of mine once threw a music stand.
I didnt see this happen but an instructor threw a drum stick at a bass player. The instructor ended up in the ER with 2 broken fingers and a missing tooth.
@App Quit idk honestly. I wasnt there when it happened. But the story spread through out the whole school and I was hearing so many wild stories. But everyone said the same thing about the drumstick being thrown
@@storageunit2683 bassists are always the wildest mfs
As an introvert that’s expressing their feelings in this comments section, I’m... okay.
zoomer discord Wholesome and underrated
proud of you bud
Hahaha that last shot of you practising superimposed over the drum punching is a wonderful and funny summation of your argument.
Can’t wait to see Sungazer in Sydney!!
I watched this at 2x speed. Still not quite my tempo.
Terrence doesn't match up with college directors, but HIGH SCHOOL directors are dead on in my experience. My high school director did actually throw a chair, albeit not at a student.
Yeah I never did band in high school but I was in middle school percussion when this film came out and my band teacher who was eventually fired for being so intense once spoke about how great of a teacher Fletcher was
Yeah when you think about it, this is a story from Damien's past, culture could've changed (or not been as to a strict normal). Not to mention he was obviously younger and never said it wasn't in highschool..did he?
My middle school director threw a stand at a kid. Actually a pretty good director believe it or not. Nice guy, that was the only time he ever did anything like that. I mean he yelled at me a few times but looking back i totally deserved it.
@Robert Nelson Thank you. That has been my experience too. This film is not believable. No faculty would put up with this jerk. At ANY level of education. It's totally false. You cannot teach people through fear.
@@KenNickels Exactly. At a certain point there is a legal case for emotional abuse.
“If I _ever_ find one of these lying around again, I swear to *BASS* god, I will stop being so polite.”
More like a BASED god
Maybe Based Zeus...?
@@pussymcstanky hahaha i was thinking of that
Carazy123 I don’t know why but I died when I heard that.
Many more likes!!
Dude really said: Acktually 👆🤓
😂 fr. As the the movie is about musical technicality and not the story and characters and experience
You don’t know who you’re talking about😭this is Adam Neely
@@idigmusic4405 Okay he's good at music but he fucking sucks at interpreting movies apparently
@@idigmusic4405 is he one of those single tear people? 😥
@@eliasmsv3156 idk the interpretation is fine imo
As a waterbender, _Avatar: The Last Airbender_ was... ok.
Don't lie
Shut up, Kylo
It just got some some aspects of earthbending culture wrong
no, it wasn't
fuck no it was dogshit
@Adam Neely As someone whose Jazz and Concert band teacher was legit so close to Fletcher that this movie caused me flashbacks, I can say. Yes, these people do exist. He was a professional artist who never had his chance to shine, and thus forced his aspirations on his students. He was a perfectionist who created incredible bands, at the expense of his students. I was instructed to quit all other extra activities in my life or quit. Also yes, chairs were absolutely used as a form of hierarchy. Student favorites who were the most talented were first and failures placed 4th. If he changed you to the 4th chair, you knew your days were numbered. There was no comradery only competitors. Also ironically, we had two drummers, one a natural and one constantly trying to aspire to be recognized. He was onstage when not playing. I saw chairs, music stands, and trash cans regularly thrown. Musicians regularly belittled and their egos destroyed. Failure was not an option. We were drawn to the band due to its grandeur and reputation and though our anxiety was constant while he was in the room, we endured the abuse. While his bands were the best in their regions, I know many of my friends, including myself, who were never able to continue music and forever abandoned this field as they were never able to live up to the ideals of our instructors' perfectionism. Most of us could not, and would not ever be good enough. Granted the few that did, are now professionals... so... as much as I hate my previous experiences, he had a method to his madness. He was fired and rehired many times, as his results were stellar, but the complaints were never-ending.
"He was a professional artist" - he was professional, but not an artist.
@@gabrielvero2352 You are right. He couldn't do it with his own hands and instead expected others to do it. I used to hate him for a very long time but I guess now I just pity him. He retired early when he actually injured a student and a parent saw it.
writing
YT
comments
is therapy?
j/s
PTSD???
Really?
sigh
hi! when you say jazz and concert band, is that college?
Yep. I wasn't in jazz but I had a high school cheerleading coach who was just as bad. She thankfully never hit anyone or threw anything but she would yell so loud the other classrooms would hear it. One time she grabbed my friend's hand and told her to hit her because of the disrespect she felt. It's crazy to think that these teachers get to stay in their positions, especially when dealing with young students. I was diagnosed with PTSD after realizing that maybe I did suffer a lot more than I thought when I was on the team. Only a handful of other students (including me) continued to dance after high school and I 100% think it was because our spirits were crushed during our time there. Whiplash was anxiety inducing and such a great representation of what students suffer under the hands of a teacher who creates a chaotic environment to achieve some sort of "greatness" in their little world.
This sort of deep analysis of film is new to me. One thing that I noticed while combing through this movie for jazz nitpicks is that...this movie is insanely narratively tight and focused in it's storytelling! No second of celluloid is wasted - everything has a purpose. It really is a joy to behold from that perspective.
My critique is mainly coming from a cultural analysis - not a narrative one. Please take that for what it's worth!
I couldn't agree more. Incredible storytelling, poor representation of jazz. My non-musician friends always complain about me nitpicking this movie, and my analysis is much more superficial as I'm not academically trained.
I found this new format really interesting. I would love to see more videos like this in the future!
Yeah not quite my tempo
Do more pls, thx
I nit-pick all movies, and I call them all documentaries when they aren't (makes Jurassic Park more interesting). And my years at a state school i saw elements of the jazz hierarchy in the jazz school there. It's a very very good thing no one recorded 1st band rehearsals, all of us alumni over the years still quote their favorite lines from Coach (yes, that was his nick-name). Watching this movie really showed me the difference between west coast and east coast too, urban and rural. My experiences were quite different yet shared some common threads.
I think you nailed this one... It's obvious from your critique that the story is an adaptation of a standard story arc that we see in many other movies, like sports movies, but instead is using music education as a device. It would likely been a very different portrayal had the writer immersed himself in the culture and done the interviews and research necessary to understand it, then written the screen play based on that information.
I'm disappointed, honestly. As a writer, I know that the foundation of writing a convincing scene or story is in doing the research necessary to make it come across as factual (even if some creative interjections are made to fit the characters or story elements).
My dad was almost the same way as Fletcher. He was a musician and he tried to teach me but he was a perfectionist and *absolutely lost it* when I couldn't play right the first time and no matter how much I practiced it wasn't good enough, it got so bad I swore off playing instruments. I still enjoy music and dabble in making music now but nowhere near the stuff my dad can do