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The canon new republic took the wrong lesson from the clone wars. The reason the clone army was adopted so quickly was because there was no existing military. Thus palpatine used the fear of war to convince the republic to hastily adopt a sketchy clone army without looking more into it's creation, that suprise-suprise- was secretly controlled by him. The new republic by demilitarizing is setting up for this same thing to happen again eventhough they thought they were preventing it. Having a carefully created military with civilian oversight , training, and checks-and-balances prevents a corrupt military. Making an army once you're at war is like going to the store hungry. You are in a hurry to go home and cook so you forgot some ingredients. You try to establish an army during wartime and you forget to add civilian oversight. If you wait until a war and then raise an army you chance an untrained hastily formed militia group like saw gerrera becoming terrorists and refuse to give up power once war ends. Having civilian militia groups is a good idea incase the standing army become tyrannical, BUT you also need a standing army to keep a single militia group from becoming tyrannical, or from a a populist authoritarian movement forming out of fear leading to a tyrannical standing army.
Yeah just like indonesian war of independence rely heavly on militia group and after war of independence those group dont want to demiliterized even the new goverment gived them position and state pansion
Because they elected that moron Fey'lya who pretty much let the Vong do what ever they wanted to the point the Vong flat out admitted he was their best asset for winning the war.
@@StarWarsCentralized no, it's better said that the *_MAIN CHARACTERS_* defeated Thrawn and Res-Palpy, not the New Republic. A common thread in the EU is that the New Republic was not only self-sabotaging but also constantly needed the MCs to save it (or, at times, helped make the situation worse, like the Swarm War, which led Jasen to fall into the Dark Side).
Your channel is definitely a bright spot for SW youtube content. This is my first time seeing proper insights and perspectives for both Legends and Canon material. You also taken to account the history of both timelines and for what purpose/subtext they were written for. Overall keep it up! Underrated channel.
Dark Empire (DE) was supposed to take place 6 months after ROTJ and Heir to the Empire 5 years after. Zahn hated the idea of Palpatine coming back and refused to reference anything from DE in his trilogy so DE was moved to take place after Zahn’s books. The writing in DE wasn’t updated to reflect the timeline change and that’s why the good guys call themselves Rebels instead of the New Republic in DE.
Thanks, I never knew that! In-universe I always thought it was strange that Palpatine would wait 6 years to reveal himself instead of reassuming power asap to prevent further fracturing of the Empire.
@@shaggy1628 6 months after makes more sense than 6 years after. The Emperor should want to reemerge asap to reassert control over the Empire that didn't know what to do and was falling apart after his death.
I really think instead of a new republic they made the entire galaxy have multiple types of government on different planets and systems so story can have grand scale but still be able to focus on individual characters
@@StarWarsCentralized I am glad you are honest.. Legends stories are bascially not connected. Ands its jsut action and over the top..... Mandlaorians are all just a bunch of boba fetts there are 100s on inquistors to many sky walker children the force acts like a god
For EU that was because a lot of the writers were Military sci-fi authors. So civilian government bad, military commanders/main characters good. (That's why the Imperial Remnant was treated much better than the New Republic.) For Disney that is because they wanted to do Empire vs Rebellion again to cash in on the nostalgia.
Easy, because if they are strong, good and competent the formula of the main characters saving the day against impossible odds doesn't work, and star Wars really likes that formula
I guess I'm to much of a romantic idealist for loveing the Legends, time line more than the bland Disney stuff. that has been too afraid to say much of anything with good storytelling other than Andor, even that is so restricted in scope partly due to it being trapped by Rogue One. The new era has been lacking stronger world building and deeper reasons for who is doing what and why. Legends built all of that up and became staggering in scope even when it was a bit too focused on the Skywalker family at times.
Amazing video!! Looking at both eu's version of The New Republic through that mindset of 1980s America compared to current day is mind blowing stuff. Both versions of The New Republic are really interesting when going into it with that mindset. Much to think about
Probably my biggest issue with the New Republic in both Legends and Disney Canon is that they are both eventually destroyed. This is in contradiction to what George intended, where the New Republic (under the stewardship of Leia), after many trials and failures, ultimately leads the galaxy into a new golden age. That's how the story is supposed to end. I feel that's a much more hopeful and uplifting ending (which is more in line with the spirit of Star Wars) than what we got in either continuity.
this happened solely because episode 7 decided to nuke all of the NR with starkiller base. So in order to explain why the NR got themselves nuked, the NR has to be portrayed as incompetent and stupid. TL;DR, disney and JJ abrams, as well as their lack of planning in their sequel trilogy, are to blame.
I'd have to question the "Legends villains were always morally wrong" assertion. Thrawn had some *really* good points, and was ultimately validated in that when the Yuuzhan Vong invaded, the NR was proved to be practically useless. The military might of the Empire really *was* the best chance the Galaxy had. But the NR in canon would be even *more* useless in the face of the Vong with their demilitarization. That said, I appreciate your nuanced look at both portrayals.
That’s a good point, and I would highlight the fact that Thrawn is still a fascist in order to refute it, but in the recontextualization of the Vong, I understand your argument!
There was a dialog in some EU book where this point of view was invalidated. It was something like: the Empire would build a big Vong killing weapon, but its design would be flawed, so it would be destroyed by a single torpedo like the Death Star. Autocracy and centralization don't get on well with meritocracy. Besides, canon Thrawn (not sure if EU Thrawn too) was a big critic of imperial military thought, preferring mobile fleet, precision strikes and tactical thinking to gigantic weapons of mass destruction, so it seems canon Thrawn could actually find a common ground with EU NR.
This channel and Empire Wreckers are my favorite new Star Wars analysis channels. I love some serious analysis and discussion about SW, without feeding into the toxicity and negativity present in so many channels
I don’t believe post Rise of Skywalker (RoS) the Republic or a Galactic alliance will ever reform… To me it just wouldn’t make sense. In a span of a life time we had two galactic governments rise and three governments fall in a span of 60 or 70 years. I think it makes sense that anyone with power would keep it and would form there own smaller governments or alliances, and not put money down for another republic or empire. This could lead to hundreds of governments some large and others small or criminal organizations working more openly. I don’t think thats what Disney is gonna go for though but I think it would be interesting if there wasn’t another galactic civilization running the galaxy, just a collection of smaller government.
Great video man I think you do a very good job with nuance when you talk about modern and older Star wars content something I usually don't see when it comes covering modern Star wars as a lot of it is usually sadly Disney is bad and Eu good.
I think you hit on one of the big differences between Legends and Canon treatment of Luke Han and Leia. When I read Legends post Rotj stuff I got the feeling the legacy characters from the movies were trapped in amber the way they were immediately after the OT ended. They even mention Luke never so much as grew a beard later in life (ie everyone even seemed to keep the same sense of style as they got older). Meanwhile Canon took a different approach where they had changed or failed and I found that difference interesting after the minimal changes Legends tended to commit to. Btw, I like both interpretations, and I think I’m overall glad we got two versions of these characters to compare.
Another turning point in how the storytelling changed in Star Wars was the attack on the Twin Towers. It punctured the notion that "The good guys always win and everything stays status quo." (At least in the US) Killing off Chewbacca in the Legends EU was another symptom of this.
I really appreciate this analysis that doesn't just say SEQUELS GOOD or SEQUELS SUCK. Instead, you carefully looked into the similarities and differences between these two different imaginings of the New Republic. I especially liked that you looked into the cultural and historical reasons as to why these different stories differed. Such as the popular perspective on the US government and how that changed how the New Republic was written. Too much media analysis today is too focused on the literal narrative. I like that here you take a more holistic approach. This gave the video a uniqueness, a way that it stands out from the rest. Keep up the good work and I am looking forward to your future videos
Idk why the writers dislike the New republic so much. One gets bodied by the first order, the other by Thrawn and aliens who aren’t even from the known galaxy.
IMO they need to destroy any legacy of anything created by Lucas so that they can remake the galaxy in their own image. I have to imagine that we’ll see what their idealized new political system will look like under the new Rey movie if it ever comes out.
For EU that was because a lot of the writers were Military sci-fi authors. So civilian government bad, military commanders/main characters good. (That's why the Imperial Remnant was treated much better than the New Republic.) For Disney that is because they wanted to do Empire vs Rebellion again to cash in on the nostalgia.
This made me appreciate the canon New Republic a lot more. I still have some issues with certain choices and bits of worldbuilding in Disney Star Wars, but I understand now how the New Republic makes sense considering the current culture, as well as what we know from the prequels. We live in a time where peoples' faith in democracy and government have been heavily shaken, so it makes sense that the canon New Republic would reflect those attitudes with its ineffectualness.
I prefer legends new republic that became the Galactic alliance because Disney canon version the disarming of there military was a dumbass idea should have kept it if war happens again just look what happened in the Disney trilogy. People keep saying disney canon version is “Realistic” but it just sounds like an excuse to dumb them down the writers could have written them better make them more successful. After the Disney trilogy there won’t be a republic anymore that system failed two times at best the galaxy be split into different governments would fighting for control.
Their reasons for demilitarization were just and I find them believable, if naive. I can tell you're gonna dislike everything canon from your usage of the term "Disney Trilogy", but I still very much recommend the book Bloodline from the end of my video. It does a lot of heavy lifting that absolutely should have been in the sequels.
@@StarWarsCentralized It not like the book matters now it was retconned the later materials I just found it stupid that they demilitarized when they don’t have anything protect themselves from threats the new republic just signing up for a false peace when their enemies prepare for war. Plus kicking Leia out of the senate just being Darth Vader daughter is petty and stupid it just seems out of character to that due to most the rebel alliance was once imperials.
This why i started to prefer the expanded universe, the higher amount of politics. And that the new republic didnt just disappear as swiflty as it does in cannon.
I really like and appreciate this video. As someone who grew up a fan of Star Wars in the early 2000s most of my childhood was filled with the EU books, comics, and games that feature the new Republic dead and center. Wedge Antilles and Rogue Squadron are still my favorite thing in the history of Star Wars. That being said your video allowed me to look on the New Republic of Legends with a more critical and skeptical eye and acknowledge that it isn't the perfect follow up to the original trilogy. That being said I don't feel that the New Republic of Cannon is any better. I have repeatedly felt a narrative dissatisfaction, and a times outright disgust, at the way the New Republic has been portrayed in Cannon. It doesn't feel like a New Republic born out of the sacrifices, loss, and lessons of the Old Republic and Galactic Civil War. It just feels like the Old Republic again just with an unrealistically naïve focus on "peace" and "pacifism". I suppose on the surface this alone wouldn't bother me, but the fact that the New Republic is shown dehumanizing Imperial Prisoners by striping away their names and giving them numbers, or their willingness to use mind flayers just angers me. I can not in any way fathom a government born from those that fought against these very elements, elements that in the fiction were portrayed as evil, embracing those same elements. I don't mind that the New Republic of Cannon is imperfect, if anything I think it is a better and more interesting take on things. But for the New Republic to abandon the ideals on which it was founded and fall into the same shortfalls and corruption that the Old Republic did so soon after it's reestablishment just leaves me feeling frustrated and angered.
This was a very good comparison video. Well done! You got my subscription. Now I only looked at a bit of new Republic stuff in legends on the wiki, But to be honest I like the new Republic in canon. It shows that they are still somewhat blinded and for the part with the memory thing from mando it shows that the new republic is not to be trusted as well, like if word got out that they were mind erasing former imoerials all hell would break loose because i bet Montha knows nothing about that.. but overall i see the new republic in canon a bit better than in legends like after they defeat thrawn since he returned it will be peace in the galaxy until the first order came along.
The New Republic being written by multiple authors especially in the 90s conflicts with 2000s, 2010, and 2020s. Many yielded great portrayals of the NR while others told/showcase terrible writing
As much as it saddens me to see the New Republic fail to learn the lessons of history, fall to compromise on its values in some areas while holding fast to the ones it should let go, and fail to incorporate its Rebel elements cohesively… it’s kinda the point, and a good point to make. These are lessons we haven’t learned in real life so maybe seeing the consequences in easy to digest fiction will help us do things better
Interesting and detailed video, but I fail to see how the canon New Republic is portrayed with nuance when its failure boils down to Imperial loyalists or uncaring politicians. If the Sequels era is supposed to be an era of peace, why were there a significant number of Imperial sympathizers in the government? Nostalgia for eras of authoritarian order often come from the current time period being one of instability. Canon also includes Operation Cinder, when Imperial forces fired on loyal worlds. I find it hard to believe that people would remain loyal to the government that tried to destroy their world. The canon is in the unfortunate position of having to justify why the New Republic failed in the Sequels while surviving constant threats in the tv shows. Maybe if they showed a generational decay in leadership, but the tv shows already demonstrate that the New Republic was ignorant to threats like Thrawn or Gideon even a few years after the Empire’s defeat.
Very interesting comment, you’ve given me a lot to think about. I definitely still consider an imperfect government dealing with those who benefitted from a former regime ideologically to be nuanced - especially considering Operation Cinder. With Operation Cinder, many former Imperial loyalists were soured and weren’t willing to call themselves Imperial anymore, and joined the New Republic, but they actually still wanted that kind of authority in their galaxy, causing political strife. But still, a government unwilling to emulate anything at all from the Empire has trouble governing properly, and that makes sense to me.
I'm a bit confused by the video and comments suggesting the EU New Republic was idealistic, efficient, and effective 😂🤔 Going so far as to not even mentioning that corruption and weakness in cohesion were primary concerns for the government in the very book that kicked the EU off. Heir to the Empire shows us a very weak and fragmented NR political apparatus thats nearly crippled by the mere suggestion of financial corruption...not to mention the Bothans Camaas document possibly being at Mount Tantis being so lightly suggested at during the Thrawn Trilogy. I always found the tedious and strained politics keeping the government together to be very believable, where the version we get in the Disney Canon seems completely unbelievable. They treat it like a magic trick, and the NR was born and thus it was 😂 🫴The EU version of it was laid out in years, and transitions, and upheavals, and grueling warfare against remnants and breakaway warlord factions, internal divisions that threatened civil war or secession...which is what our own real history shows us when empires fall or revolutions take control of a political system.
That’s exactly my point though. All of that corruption and tediousness that the EU new Republic had, it has as a threat to the majority good people who are actively working for betterment. Whereas canon is the inverse, with the majority of the NR being that type of weak, corrupt individual, while the heroes must work on the outskirts. This isn’t 100% accurate 100% of the time, but it feels generally consistent
Also, the EU NR was defined so much by out-of-universe decisions to make constant conflict keep happening, just like the Canon NR with the sequels making it necessarily inept
@@StarWarsCentralized Yeahhh, but the EU NR maintained a certain amount of believability as a political entity, even if the story it existed in was somewhat disjointed. I can't say the Canon version feels like a viable political "thing." In fact, I'd say that HAVING the prequels gives greater believability to the EU NR. Constantly fretting over the titles of the top political figure, the reorganization of the legislative and executive bodies' powers and forms, the various saber rattling factions and those against militarism...these all received some weight after seeing the Old Republic bicker endlessly until it fell into civil war and authoritarianism. Canon's NR comes off like some bright-eyed re-imagining of the Ruusan Reformation, but thematically bastardized. It has very little reason to exist in the context we've gotten within the new Canon, and there's every reason (in what we'd see in our real world) for the galaxy to balkanize or enter a vast warlord era. The storyboard for Disney gives no actual reason for star systems to want to join, and no reason for the NR to seek it's own existence. The Imperial Remnant remains, but this NR doesn't enter a cold war against it, and disarms...for reasons of appearance??? That's an impossible political stance. No government known to us would act like that...either the body politic would have so much severe trauma that it'd demand an arms race/cold war with a very light trigger finger (which it doesn't seem to have...in Bloodlines, you'd expect the mere whiff of the First Order or the slightest movement of an Imperial Remnant ISD would lead to panic and war drums - but nada), or would be so consumed with lingering outrage over abuses that the demand for completely dissolving the Empire would require total conquest and capture. We only have to look at Europe after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, the expansion of NATO and the political ramifications of it's eastward growth, the emergence of the European Union and it's growing political power, and the shift from a bipolar world order to a unipolar one, and the rise of new regional powers...all of the issues we face 30 years after that geopolitical shift you'd expect to see reflected in Disney's artistry, but they chose not to.
And the weird authoritarianism with the Canon NR that we're seeing isn't something we can recognize in real life. While the concept of placating opposition with technology is very Dark Mirror-esque, no government IRL acts like that. The mask of happy oppressors is always a fable, our governments are openly lying and react viciously to opposition or pushback - especially in the West...while enjoying their technocratic spy networks that violate our liberties. Governments that behave like this rely heavily on a military industrial apparatus to enforce and prop up their regime, and you'd EXPECT the Disney Canon NR to behave like that - but they don't.
Fantastic video! I’m reading Bloodline right now, and it feels to me that the canon new republic is also trying to talk about the large political differences within the American government through the Centrists and Populists. These two groups seem to be very split with vastly different ideals, much like the right and left of the American political spectrum.
this video has got me thinking a lot about star wars post-war on terrorism and how its criticism holds up in the face of something like Ukraine which goes to show how thought provoking your analysis is! awesome video, tysm!
I feel like I adore legends New Republic because I’m very amused by this idea of a new government after a brutal dictatorship that is able to rebuild peace and democracy and ran well. But also I love the New Republic in canon because it feels realistic, shows more of what governments and politics really are, though even with all this bad aspects it’s still a “lesser evil” compared to an authoritarian government and that to keep this more balanced society needs constant fighting and inspection of any inner or outside possible dangers
@@StarWarsCentralized both can give great experiences, I’m anxious to more books and Disney plus shows on this era so we can know more of how was the New Republic 😁
@@StarWarsCentralized On the other hand, the canon version does have the benefit of not electing a moron who's stupid political games almost let Thrawn beat them to run it where in his stupid political games pretty much led to its collapse in an extra-galactic invasion.
It really doesn't matter whether the New Republic was political or not it was definitely better than the damn empire that's for sure. Although it could've been made so it was less political and more of a freedom HQ that helps people.
Canon: they basically fell right back into the same stupidity that caused the downfall of the Republic in the first place without a seconds thought and failed as a result Legends: they struggled for a while but they pulled through in the end
@@StarWarsCentralized Well, reforming into a new government could be considered "pulling through in the end" since they weren't fully destroyed (admittedly canon NR might have been reformed into something after Rise of Skywalker but iirc there is not mention or indication of it yet).
@@StarWarsCentralized its more so blatant with Disney Canon but Legends certainly has it as it's a no Brainerd you'll have some bad stories for a continuity with many varying writers
I have a feeling this comes from a desire to have the Good Guys associate with a faction with more nuance than an overly heroic and propagandistic faction like the Old Republic of the Clone Wars. As much as I loved a lot of the older Legends books, on retrospect it bothers me that a lot of the books endorsed the kind of Galactic Policing and foreign violence, like those reflected in real world proxy wars. I like that they've portrayed the New Republic as a more flawed government, much more akin to many real-world newly made democracies after years of dictatorial rule. There was a deleted scene in The Force Awakens where Leia and an agent of hers were frustrated that the New Republic was not committing enough to battle the First Order, and was being complacent and I while it is in the Novelization, it would have helped and added more weight to Starkiller Base destroying it. I'd like to see more of that. An exploration of the morally gray waters of the NR trying to move forward and demilitarize. I have a feeling that after Thrawn's death, they will become more isolationist, like how it was in The Force Awakens.
The canon New Republic is actually 1 of my favourite things in SW. Its mistakes go hand in hand with the ones from the prequels and complete each other perfectly. While the prequels Republic is too militarised and agressive, the New Republic is too relaxed and peaceful. Which r both ironically the problems of modern USA. On 1 hand US supports Israel, on the other it isn't decisive enough when it comes to Ukraine, thus supporting 2 genocides at once. And in Star Wars's case, it makes perfect sense, as corruption is to blame in both cases, yet the Rebel leaders who founded the New Republic were focused mainly on Palpatine. And who can blame them? It is morally complex, yet not completely evil, like all non-totalitarian governments r (totalitarian r evil and not at all morally complex, like the Empire).
The Expanded Universe is far more realistic then the Disney canon in many ways, for example the speed at which the New Republic wins against the Empire is ridiculous. In one year they go from a handful of ships to building dreadnoughts and crushing the entire Imperial navy in a single battle, in comparison the only dreadnoughts the NR has in the EU for a very long time are the handful they mange to steal from the Remnant. The Empire was enormous and had hundreds of thousands of ships, in the EU the only reason the New Republic managed to win is because the Imperial Remnant spent more time fighting each other then they did the New Republic. I would say about 90 percent of Imperial loses were self inflicted but it didn't happen overnight. Had the Remnant been united especially by someone like Thrawn they would have squished the New Republic like a bug. The pro militarism in the New Republic was a matter of survival not political grand standing. Also the New Republic in the EU didn't so much die as it evolved, the NR and Remnant finally decided to let go of the past and Reunited finally and truly ending the Civil War. The New Republic in the EU had a lot of issues but the NR in the DC is a joke, it was even worse than the Old Republic in many ways, ruled by idealistic fools and corrupt bureaucrats from both the Old Republic and the Empire, it's doom was inevitable from the start.
Both versions have the writers siding with the military hawks over the mistaken, scheming politicians. It's not a good lesson to take from a Star Wars story, and it's no wonder that many readers/players started considering the Empire not so bad (pretty much a matter of, say, Thrawn and Pellaeon junta "bad guys" vs. Akbar-Trio-Rogue Squadron junta "good guys"; and the new canon version of NR politicians being annoying to the cool and correct military dudes under Hera achieves pretty much the same). The other alternative were the Stackpole novels, which justified the NR's Rogue Squadron junta by making the Empire much more evil than it ever was depicted on film or in George-curated secondary material. Not ideal either. The BETTER approach would be to show the "enlightened military junta" under Thrawn rise to power, but THEN be defeated by the NR not IN SPITE of its politics ("hard military guys have to stop the complaining and scheming Bothan/Asian complaining politician guy"), but BECAUSE of it: say, the planets that Thrawn captured start sabotaging the economic production, demanding representation they had under the Republic, or various companies supply the New Republic forces with advanced fighters and Star Destroyers, having tasted the freedom of business, instead of being content with the Empire's system of state capitalism. George has seeded it RIGHT THERE IN THE FILMS with the Trade Federation and the question of how controlled should the corporations be (Palpatine baiting TradeFed and other Megacorps into outright rebellion to finish off any possible organized production of weapons for those fighting his future regime). The epilogue to the galactic civil war should be that a GOOD Republic does not need "strong men making hard choices", that a democracy can stand tall on its own. Instead it's either descent into warlordism (Legends), which makes sense, but does not a good message make, or immediate return to pre-war pacifism, with predictable results, - it makes it so the galaxy learned NOTHING over Palpatine's reign and Tarkin's crimes (legends - turned into junta warmongers themselves; new canon - back to the old, weak state that got subverted way too easily).
This I very much agree with. Both EU and Canon have the classic Mil Sci Fi issue of "politicians bad, military good" (This even extends to good guy Palleon and IR-NR unification in Legends). I very much dislike Operation Cinder and find the Imperial Warlords much more realistic but perhaps the Galactic Civil War could have ended some years earlier. I think demilitarisation in canon was a bad choice, repeating a mistake of the old Republic. But you would need to make sure what comes out isn't "politicians bad, military good". So what is needed is a limited military under strong civilian control/supervision as is the case in practically every liberal democracy.
I want the New Republican to be depicted as flawed, but my issue with so much New Canon stuff is that it seems to keep depicting the rapid Demilitarization as a mistake, all these stories where the Solders are correct and the politicians are just getting in the way of them doing what needs to be done is itself a common feature of the Fascist mindset. I honestly would prefer the New Republic be like how it was in Legends but simply framed far more critically.
1:58 And somehow feelt more naturall than George's ideas. How is this even possible? I love George. He is George. But sometimes he goes to far in a few places. Hope Dave Filoni's movie will be about Elon Mu-ı mean Thrawn. He is building him up since the rebels. His va and actor is the same dude. And hope Luke will be the main hero.
I feel like the book X-wing Starfighters of Adumar did show us a more negative side to the NR. Like what happens when one of the worlds they want to join isn’t a United world. Basically what happens when they come to Earth?
Demilitarisation honestly makes less sense to me with the context of the Prequels. The old Republic was demilitarised and the Empire was born out of its crash remilitarisation in response to a massive crisis. To me the most sensible solution is maintaining a standing military, albeit one far smaller and much more limited (also under civilian government control) than the Empire. With New Republic demilitarising they are simply repeating one of the mistakes of the old.
I actually see it as making *more* sense with the prequels, as the Empire was started through a politician having power over a huge military buildup. So, creating a much more limited military for the New Republic is their way to avoid an overly ambitious leader from taking advantage of the military as Palpatine did.
@@StarWarsCentralized Ah, but the way it happened was that Palpatine built a military from scratch (secretly doing so and then buying it for the Republic, technically) with the Republic needing a military to fight the Separatists but not having one. Therefore the Clone Army (secretly under Palpatine's full control via contingency orders/indoctrination or chips, depending on the timeline) was easily accepted ans questioned little. If the had an established military it could have had an existing military culture/tradition. One which would likely have sworn oaths to the constitution to defend it and democracy against enemies foreign and domestic, and one which might have resisted Palpatine's takeover (not certain, with example of Weimar Germany that was one of George's big example but with the Republic having such long history a culture like US or British military that would resist a dictatorial takeover would be possible). What NR needed was a professional volunteer military that could maintain the traditions of the Rebel Alliance and be ready to defend the Republic in case the Imperial Remnants, Neo-Imperialists within the Republic or even foes from outside like the Vong were to entail threats. But one with clear constitutional limits and a respect for the civilian government and democracy to avoid a junta.
at 16:30 i realized..... why DID han become a general???? Han never really showed any sort of military expertise in the OT, he was a good pilot, and a decent shot, but a General??? that never made sense in hindsight.
Given how things were set up both the New Republic and resistance was destine to fail. In reality it would make sense for new Republic to go against the first order because bureaucracies are equal in power, the resistance was funded by the new Republic but lacked in style(terrible outfits) and ships(resistance bombers). Not mention it repeats the script of broke freedom fighters vs a galactic government. "Starwars: bloodline" was genuis, the New Republic getting eradicated by their own ignorance set the whole trilogy up for failure.
The Canon New Republic just feels weak on the fact they barely even built anything about it. Like any of the expanded media set in the time period is just this vague slurry of events.
"Sequels" are trash and don't matter. Disney has only made 1 decent movie (Rogue One) and 1 decent series (Andor) everything else has been a massive shit on everything before it.
A serious political analysis of the NR in legends implies it is one of 3 things A citizen republic (a republic where only veterans can vote, would explain how the alliance elites consistently wins elections, From my view this is the only liberal government the I can believe the NR can possibly be as presented, however based on the likely politics of the writers, this is unlikely. A Military Dictatorship (This is honestly the most optimistic view of the NR as presented) An Elitist Oligarchy (Very pessimistic view of the NR, where the rebel elites centralize all power themselves, and like the latter 2 takes, explains how the rebel elites dominate politics in a galaxy still full of people that still support the empire) I refuse to believe the NR is a Democracy as presented, because it would likely have at least just around half of its representatives being open imperial sympathizers. And the fact that for most of its existence, Mothma and Leia were self appointed heads of state with lots of executive authority.
There can be a simple explanation - as the EU NR gained foothold over the galaxy slowly, gradually over the years, it initially consisted of planets that were anti-imperial at their core, like Mon Calamari or Chandrilla, so they represented a common political attitude, a bit like the original US 13 colonies. More planets joined NR either voluntarilly having deposed their weak pro-imperial governments, or as a result of military campaigns against imperial remnants (in which case there were probably purges within former imperial administration), or simply seeing NR bringing political stability. Paradoxically, Disney NR's flaws come from its very rapid (compared to EU) takeover of the galaxy.
@@Macielos1 That can explain it early on, but Mothma and Leia both dominated the role of head of state for nearly 20 years, long after the NR came to control most of the galaxy.
It's not that pro-imperial worlds would remain pro-imperial forever no matter the circumstances. The Empire lasted for 30-40 years or so, and was preceded by thousand-year-old Old Republic. I could easily imagine imperial influence on some former pro-imperial worlds weakening as a result of NR's political influence and successful military campaigns against warlords who could potentially rally imperial sympathizers. Also - perhaps the most importantly - NR had much to offer even to traditionally pro-imperial factions - corporations, great houses etc., as they could still make shitloads of money for constructing ships and other stuff for NR instead of the Empire. E.g. Kuat Drive Yards' management was replaced with pro-Republic ones and then participated in constructing next-gen NR fleet (yeah, I played Thrawn's Revenge). In Disney timeline all those pro-imperial factions were so eager to support Imperial Remnants and then First Order because brain-dead Mon Mothma simply cut off their sources of income and offered nothing in return.
@@Macielos1 That still doesn't change the fact that 2 self appointed officials ruled for 20 years, I'll believe the Bird guy (can never remember his name) was actually elected though. Although with this comment you didn't say anything that suggests that Leia, and Mothma were in any way elected fairly, just that everyone accepted their rule.
@@goldengyarados3515 You also doesn't have anything to suggest they were elected unfairly. I suppose they had an election when Rebel Alliance transformed into NR. It's a natural mechanism that in wartime democracies rally around strong political leaders and that happened with Leia and Mon Mothma, as much as with Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher or Volodymyr Zelensky.
It’s nuanced considering that’s the government started by the undoubtedly good guys in the original trilogy, and that Leia had to lie in order to make Hera’s actions not illegal
@@StarWarsCentralized Leia bailing out her "friend" is the exact opposite of what a democratic system with control over the military and its officers is supposed to do. Hera needed to show *real* evidence to support her claim, like, I don't know, videos of the hyperdrive being stolen, or her own flight recordings, not "I'm a General so what I say goes!" Instead, she just criticised an elected official for not being a combatant and acted antagonistic towards the system she's supposed to represent, she knowingly took a minor into a combat situation, and her recklessness cost the lives of at least 3 x-wing pilots! She should have been court-martialed at best! This is why rebels make lousy military officers.
@@StarWarsCentralized I'm of the opinion that Hera's actions were not only illegal and deeply unethical, but wrong. It is not bad that elected civilians are able to hold unelected military officials accountable for their actions. It is not bad that those elected officials do not agree with protagonists, or come across as unlikable. She does a massive disservice to everyone who fought in the rebellion by implying those who did not have no right to question those who did. Thrawn does not pose a threat to the NR if the NR does not panic - I think realistically, Thrawn pops into the galaxy and immediately has to refuel. If he does, the NR world he rolls up on is going to be full of alliance veterans leading effective militias, and they're going to wipe the floor with him. A wild goose chase only further discredits the NR's military. I don't think it's bad that they show the protagonists as fallible and responsible for mistakes that endangered the NR, but I do think that it is bad that the NR is so feeble and inept that they can't survive fallible protagonists.
I really dislike the canon portrayal of The New Republic as this weak lazy government that gets lazily swept under the rug in Episode 7 cause JJ Abrams is a bad writer. Like, I feel like they should have been the good guy's idealized government. It weakens the whole goal of the good guys and everything they've fought for. Making a new government inspired by the Republic of old, but without its flaws and corruption. Making something that works, like a happier ending. Instead of just THIS. It's lame, it's disappointing, and it also just feels like an excuse to justify JJ Abram's nonsense in Episode 7. Also, great video! Also I will always hate Lucas basing the rebels off the fucking Viet Cong and the Empire off America, but at least it's become its own thing since then.
First, I'd argue the Sequel Trilogy, namely Last Jedi, is as political as the Prequels or at least the OT, if more 'culturally' political then geoopolitically political like Lucas was. Denigrating old heroes to replace them with new ones is political. Other series have had passing of the torches too, but they were done respectfully. Dragonlance for instance, didn't feel the need to have Tanis turn into a failure or have Tika and Cameron to separate and be bad parents. Hell, Let the Past Die, Kill it if you have to, is a blatantly political statement. Second, if LEgends seemed to attribute the fall of the Old Republic primarily to Palpatine instead of it's own failings, then Disney Canon does the same with the New Republic what with Operation CInder, and the secret council of Moffs working for Palpatine, and other hints like that, whereas the New Republic in Legends all but defeated the Empire and fell instead to an extragalactic threat, and later a new Sith Empire.
@@StarWarsCentralized Certainly Luke in the Last Jedi. And they needlessly killed of Akbar to replace him with Holdo. Han and Leia suffered from the modern divorce/broken home phenomena affecting the culture. Leia was treated, better, admittedly, but even so, they have blatantly been ignoring all of the OT heroes to push their newer, more politically appealing heroes like Ahsoka, Sabine, Din Djarin, Bo Katan, Ezra, and such, stealing the stories the original heroes had, like their fight against Thrawn, and giving it to the new characters who've replaced them. Yes, in part it's because the Original Trilogy's original actors are not young enough to play their characters, and Carrie Fisher has unfortunately passed but then they can and have made animated shows to depict Anakin and Obi Wan fighting the Clone Wars, they could have made an animated show about Luke, Han, Leia, taking on Thrawn.
@@StarWarsCentralized It killed Luke, and completely robbed him of the achievement of being the one who reistablished the Jedi. That's killing the Past. And robbing it's grave.
What do you mean by “politically appealing”? A lot of what you’re talking about with the sequels was the result of wanting a reset status quo, not punishing the characters for some anti-American agenda
@StarWarsCentralized identity politics being forced down our throats with no subtly. Male characters completely inferior to female ones. Couldn't be more political if it tried
I don't agree with a single damn thing you said. Art is not subject ironically this isn't coming from me but those who believe is art being subjective, until they say its not; When does a clearly anti-war art peace become come pro-war? When its not about art but the politics. Why does the new republic have to repeat the mistakes of the past? Just cause George one said "It's like poetry... It rhymes" so that translates to no progress in any lessons learned. That proposes everything is fatalistic and nothing will every change or that its fates to be one was and no other out come could or is allowed to occur. As you how the pre-Disney Canon was shabbily put to gather you know who else was making-things-up-on-the-fly, the people making the sequels. The different between the two is one was made by fans the other was not. 8:45 And there's were 'the current year' kicks in 9:58 Yah cause not everyone believes in the whole everythings political and all art must have a political message. 10:11 And fantasy is not meant to be escapism? We are to be perpetually politically engaged at al times of out lives? 11:17 Yah, it what's called, Fun. Not everything have to have really world politics and narratives in all entertainment including kids shows all the time. 11:45 Well if you ignore the terrorist actions and that 9/11 ever was a thing that happened of cause America will looks like the only bad ones, that tens to happen when you apply 'framing' argument method. 12:48 You are such a lier. Seriously you CAN'T say they allied "Softer political themes" while showing the New Order emulate the nazi imagery and behavior. 13: Disney Star Wars is nothing to do with the underdogs, we want hero's but they don't want to do that, instead they deconstruct the old Hero's and reinvent the meaning of the word hero to now mean who's the more of a victim. 14:26 The lighter fluid that burn the ture canon for this false one. 15:25 They shat on the hero's legacy whom fans loved for decades and for what. That's the issue they made them unremarkable. You take so much how the real world influences the made up fantasy but you know what those same made up characters help inspire people in real life, to look up to. Now thats all gone (according to Disney canon). You know nothing inspires people to achieve for excellence when hollywood keep showing that was all in vane 17:14 All those shows were horrible suck the bug one. 17:43 There is no nuance, positive within any Disney Star Wars there in solely an abyss of negative spewing from this fowl mockery imitation of Star Wars. That is not subjective that is the grounded fundamental state or reality. To say other wise means your subjectivity has become more of a hindrance on judging quality. Your not spousing a mer opinions but heightened denial and delusion nonsense.
Despite what you've said in your comment, I thank you for it and sharing your point of view. But I will never waver on the fact that art is absolutely not objective. To answer "When does a clearly anti-war art peace become come pro-war?" is complicated, because it is a combination of artist's intent, the time it was released, and how the audience receives it. So much art, when commenting on the human condition, is political in some way, even if unintended. If a piece of art depicts government in any way, there is something political about it, whether the artist intended it or not. The New Republic repeating the mistakes of the past seems to be the overall arc of the era in canon because it was so significant in the prequels, and they wanted to follow up on it. Change comes through failure and then realization of failure. All art that features politics is inherently political. There is nothing wrong with escapism! I never criticize the old EU for being more escapist than canon, just point it out. But also, escapist fiction still represents political ideas in a way. Escapism is awesome and valuable, yet still can have politics if you choose to analyze it at the level I'm doing here. That doesn't make it bad! Also, 9/11 was a tragedy, but come on - you can't really justify the colossal domino-effect of chaos the US's invasion of Iraq was. To your point about 'softer political themes', the First Order are very much less political than the conflict represented in the prequels. You've gotta admit that. Yes, they invoke nazi imagery, but that's all pretty baseline for most of the sequels, at the same level it was in the originals. I hope you earnestly read my comment and try to see things in a less black-and-white way.
@@StarWarsCentralized To you last point of 'see things in a less black-and-white way." never gonna happen. For if it wasn't they you got tell me what's the 'nuance view' on slavery, sexual assault and child murder? I find gray morality extremely abhorrent, excessive moral relativism does nothing but blurring the line, in turn help the darkness bleed over the light. When roads paved with good intention has shown to go very bad imagine how much worst would be with less than good intent most the time? Speaking about thing being 'justify' in your humble opinion what would suggest we would have done after the eleventh of September attack. Nothing is not an answer, a foreign and ancient enemy of the west that has yet again attacked and killed your countrymen. Action must be taken, in what way I leave to you. (I'm asking you kindly not maliciously.) By the way what political theme of Charlotte's Web?
Charlotte’s web is a moot point because I said all fiction that depicts government or policy in some way is inherently political even if unintended. Moral relativism is an interesting place to go from my comment. I’m just talking about art here, I’m not talking about political opinions.
Hi everyone! I’d like to personally thank all of you so much for watching this video, but even more, for getting me to 1000 subscribers!!
The support I’ve been receiving has been absolutely incredible, and I can’t wait to take more journeys with you all.
May the Force be with you!
We love you Dan!
As Obi-wan would say.. "Good job."
The canon new republic took the wrong lesson from the clone wars. The reason the clone army was adopted so quickly was because there was no existing military. Thus palpatine used the fear of war to convince the republic to hastily adopt a sketchy clone army without looking more into it's creation, that suprise-suprise- was secretly controlled by him. The new republic by demilitarizing is setting up for this same thing to happen again eventhough they thought they were preventing it. Having a carefully created military with civilian oversight , training, and checks-and-balances prevents a corrupt military.
Making an army once you're at war is like going to the store hungry. You are in a hurry to go home and cook so you forgot some ingredients.
You try to establish an army during wartime and you forget to add civilian oversight.
If you wait until a war and then raise an army you chance an untrained hastily formed militia group like saw gerrera becoming terrorists and refuse to give up power once war ends. Having civilian militia groups is a good idea incase the standing army become tyrannical, BUT you also need a standing army to keep a single militia group from becoming tyrannical, or from a a populist authoritarian movement forming out of fear leading to a tyrannical standing army.
There was an existing military, it was just so small as to be essentially useless.
This exactly yo
Yeah just like indonesian war of independence rely heavly on militia group and after war of independence those group dont want to demiliterized even the new goverment gived them position and state pansion
For all its flaws the OG new republic tanked both Thrawn and resurrected Palpatine
It took an entire extragalattic invasion to break it
Yup lol, much different than canon.
Because they elected that moron Fey'lya who pretty much let the Vong do what ever they wanted to the point the Vong flat out admitted he was their best asset for winning the war.
@@StarWarsCentralized no, it's better said that the *_MAIN CHARACTERS_* defeated Thrawn and Res-Palpy, not the New Republic.
A common thread in the EU is that the New Republic was not only self-sabotaging but also constantly needed the MCs to save it (or, at times, helped make the situation worse, like the Swarm War, which led Jasen to fall into the Dark Side).
Your channel is definitely a bright spot for SW youtube content.
This is my first time seeing proper insights and perspectives for both Legends and Canon material. You also taken to account the history of both timelines and for what purpose/subtext they were written for.
Overall keep it up! Underrated channel.
Thank you so much!!!!
Dark Empire (DE) was supposed to take place 6 months after ROTJ and Heir to the Empire 5 years after. Zahn hated the idea of Palpatine coming back and refused to reference anything from DE in his trilogy so DE was moved to take place after Zahn’s books. The writing in DE wasn’t updated to reflect the timeline change and that’s why the good guys call themselves Rebels instead of the New Republic in DE.
Yup! That was my example
Thanks, I never knew that! In-universe I always thought it was strange that Palpatine would wait 6 years to reveal himself instead of reassuming power asap to prevent further fracturing of the Empire.
I mean, I don't blame him, it's a pretty shit idea. 6 months after too, what the hell?
@@shaggy1628 6 months after makes more sense than 6 years after. The Emperor should want to reemerge asap to reassert control over the Empire that didn't know what to do and was falling apart after his death.
That ain't exactly what you said be fr fr
I really think instead of a new republic they made the entire galaxy have multiple types of government on different planets and systems so story can have grand scale but still be able to focus on individual characters
Some sort of looser federation would be fascinating
And that's IS Republic, he has different types of government.
Basically the CIS
That is what they could had done if they weren't obligated to just make bootleg OT trilogy for the sequels.
@@StarWarsCentralized I am glad you are honest.. Legends stories are bascially not connected. Ands its jsut action and over the top.....
Mandlaorians are all just a bunch of boba fetts
there are 100s on inquistors
to many sky walker children
the force acts like a god
The better question is: why is Star Wars allergic to writing a strong, competent New Republic?
Not just the NR, why are they allergic to good writing in general?
For EU that was because a lot of the writers were Military sci-fi authors. So civilian government bad, military commanders/main characters good.
(That's why the Imperial Remnant was treated much better than the New Republic.)
For Disney that is because they wanted to do Empire vs Rebellion again to cash in on the nostalgia.
You mean Kennedyfilm's SWINO?
Easy, because if they are strong, good and competent the formula of the main characters saving the day against impossible odds doesn't work, and star Wars really likes that formula
I guess I'm to much of a romantic idealist for loveing the Legends, time line more than the bland Disney stuff. that has been too afraid to say much of anything with good storytelling other than Andor, even that is so restricted in scope partly due to it being trapped by Rogue One. The new era has been lacking stronger world building and deeper reasons for who is doing what and why. Legends built all of that up and became staggering in scope even when it was a bit too focused on the Skywalker family at times.
And a lot of that lore and world building is thanks to the sourcebooks and reference books!
Amazing video!!
Looking at both eu's version of The New Republic through that mindset of 1980s America compared to current day is mind blowing stuff. Both versions of The New Republic are really interesting when going into it with that mindset. Much to think about
Thank you Jace!!!
Probably my biggest issue with the New Republic in both Legends and Disney Canon is that they are both eventually destroyed.
This is in contradiction to what George intended, where the New Republic (under the stewardship of Leia), after many trials and failures, ultimately leads the galaxy into a new golden age. That's how the story is supposed to end.
I feel that's a much more hopeful and uplifting ending (which is more in line with the spirit of Star Wars) than what we got in either continuity.
The difference is that Legends NR learned from the mistakes of the old while Canon NR repeated the same mistakes.
The Legends NR had no idea what the old mistakes even were, if there even were any. That’s the biggest difference.
@@StarWarsCentralized In-universe they did.
And therefore the canon ones factor in systematic issues
this happened solely because episode 7 decided to nuke all of the NR with starkiller base.
So in order to explain why the NR got themselves nuked, the NR has to be portrayed as incompetent and stupid.
TL;DR, disney and JJ abrams, as well as their lack of planning in their sequel trilogy, are to blame.
@@silverprimus321boi9well to be fair the NR didn’t exactly last that long in legends either. It was gone within a similar time as the one in canon
Thank you for this video. I appreciate you thinking deeply on this stuff and giving me way more nuance to look at Star Wars and it’s real life history
Thank you for the kind comment!
I'd have to question the "Legends villains were always morally wrong" assertion. Thrawn had some *really* good points, and was ultimately validated in that when the Yuuzhan Vong invaded, the NR was proved to be practically useless. The military might of the Empire really *was* the best chance the Galaxy had.
But the NR in canon would be even *more* useless in the face of the Vong with their demilitarization.
That said, I appreciate your nuanced look at both portrayals.
That’s a good point, and I would highlight the fact that Thrawn is still a fascist in order to refute it, but in the recontextualization of the Vong, I understand your argument!
Thank you very much for the kind comment!
There was a dialog in some EU book where this point of view was invalidated. It was something like: the Empire would build a big Vong killing weapon, but its design would be flawed, so it would be destroyed by a single torpedo like the Death Star. Autocracy and centralization don't get on well with meritocracy.
Besides, canon Thrawn (not sure if EU Thrawn too) was a big critic of imperial military thought, preferring mobile fleet, precision strikes and tactical thinking to gigantic weapons of mass destruction, so it seems canon Thrawn could actually find a common ground with EU NR.
@@StarWarsCentralizedwhy would the force cut the vong from the force but not the sith or any dark side user
@@ChosenOne-il4bm idk! It’s not super well elaborated on, but it had to do with them nearly wiping out all life in their home galaxy
This channel and Empire Wreckers are my favorite new Star Wars analysis channels. I love some serious analysis and discussion about SW, without feeding into the toxicity and negativity present in so many channels
Thank you so much!! I’m glad you enjoyed this video.
0:50 Buzz Lightyear Lore
I don’t believe post Rise of Skywalker (RoS) the Republic or a Galactic alliance will ever reform…
To me it just wouldn’t make sense. In a span of a life time we had two galactic governments rise and three governments fall in a span of 60 or 70 years.
I think it makes sense that anyone with power would keep it and would form there own smaller governments or alliances, and not put money down for another republic or empire.
This could lead to hundreds of governments some large and others small or criminal organizations working more openly. I don’t think thats what Disney is gonna go for though but I think it would be interesting if there wasn’t another galactic civilization running the galaxy, just a collection of smaller government.
Some sort of huge federation of smaller sector based governments would be fascinating
@@StarWarsCentralizedYou mean like a galactic federation.... of "free alliances"...?
@kjhuang
Or dare I say......a confederacy of independent systems? (yes I'm a seppie at heart 😅)
This is the best Star Wars related video to be uploaded to UA-cam in a very long time!
Thank you so much!
Great video man I think you do a very good job with nuance when you talk about modern and older Star wars content something I usually don't see when it comes covering modern Star wars as a lot of it is usually sadly Disney is bad and Eu good.
Thank you so much! Yeah that’s my goal with the channel!
Another one of your videos going in my Essential Star Wars Analysis playlist.
Such high praise!! Thank you
great video about The New Republic in canon and legends. the hopeful farytale and the more realistic one.
All else aside (I haven't finished the video yet), that sequence from 6:44-6:48 is amazing editing. Extremely well done!
I think you hit on one of the big differences between Legends and Canon treatment of Luke Han and Leia. When I read Legends post Rotj stuff I got the feeling the legacy characters from the movies were trapped in amber the way they were immediately after the OT ended. They even mention Luke never so much as grew a beard later in life (ie everyone even seemed to keep the same sense of style as they got older).
Meanwhile Canon took a different approach where they had changed or failed and I found that difference interesting after the minimal changes Legends tended to commit to.
Btw, I like both interpretations, and I think I’m overall glad we got two versions of these characters to compare.
I totally agree! Thanks for the comment!!
Another turning point in how the storytelling changed in Star Wars was the attack on the Twin Towers. It punctured the notion that "The good guys always win and everything stays status quo." (At least in the US) Killing off Chewbacca in the Legends EU was another symptom of this.
I can absolutely see that being the case. Although, Chewbacca was killed before that happened
I really appreciate this analysis that doesn't just say SEQUELS GOOD or SEQUELS SUCK. Instead, you carefully looked into the similarities and differences between these two different imaginings of the New Republic. I especially liked that you looked into the cultural and historical reasons as to why these different stories differed. Such as the popular perspective on the US government and how that changed how the New Republic was written. Too much media analysis today is too focused on the literal narrative. I like that here you take a more holistic approach. This gave the video a uniqueness, a way that it stands out from the rest.
Keep up the good work and I am looking forward to your future videos
Thank you so much! Yeah Star Wars is much more nuanced than many people give it a chance to be, unfortunately.
Idk why the writers dislike the New republic so much. One gets bodied by the first order, the other by Thrawn and aliens who aren’t even from the known galaxy.
Stories people will buy / power creep I guess
IMO they need to destroy any legacy of anything created by Lucas so that they can remake the galaxy in their own image. I have to imagine that we’ll see what their idealized new political system will look like under the new Rey movie if it ever comes out.
For EU that was because a lot of the writers were Military sci-fi authors. So civilian government bad, military commanders/main characters good.
(That's why the Imperial Remnant was treated much better than the New Republic.)
For Disney that is because they wanted to do Empire vs Rebellion again to cash in on the nostalgia.
The EU is the true canon, not the Disney trash.
Truly a thoughtful and nuanced take.
Though seriously people like you are why this fandom is so fucking toxic.
This made me appreciate the canon New Republic a lot more. I still have some issues with certain choices and bits of worldbuilding in Disney Star Wars, but I understand now how the New Republic makes sense considering the current culture, as well as what we know from the prequels. We live in a time where peoples' faith in democracy and government have been heavily shaken, so it makes sense that the canon New Republic would reflect those attitudes with its ineffectualness.
Thank you for the comment! I’m glad you found the video insightful!!!
Loving your format, dude! 👍
Thank you!!!
I prefer legends new republic that became the Galactic alliance because Disney canon version the disarming of there military was a dumbass idea should have kept it if war happens again just look what happened in the Disney trilogy. People keep saying disney canon version is “Realistic” but it just sounds like an excuse to dumb them down the writers could have written them better make them more successful. After the Disney trilogy there won’t be a republic anymore that system failed two times at best the galaxy be split into different governments would fighting for control.
Their reasons for demilitarization were just and I find them believable, if naive. I can tell you're gonna dislike everything canon from your usage of the term "Disney Trilogy", but I still very much recommend the book Bloodline from the end of my video. It does a lot of heavy lifting that absolutely should have been in the sequels.
@@StarWarsCentralized It not like the book matters now it was retconned the later materials I just found it stupid that they demilitarized when they don’t have anything protect themselves from threats the new republic just signing up for a false peace when their enemies prepare for war. Plus kicking Leia out of the senate just being Darth Vader daughter is petty and stupid it just seems out of character to that due to most the rebel alliance was once imperials.
It wasn’t retconned lol
You forget that Legends NR was going the same route before the Thrawn Trilogy...
My headcannon is the version told by The Templin Institute- essentially just a better explained version of what we have in canon now.
His versions are alright
This why i started to prefer the expanded universe, the higher amount of politics. And that the new republic didnt just disappear as swiflty as it does in cannon.
I really like and appreciate this video. As someone who grew up a fan of Star Wars in the early 2000s most of my childhood was filled with the EU books, comics, and games that feature the new Republic dead and center. Wedge Antilles and Rogue Squadron are still my favorite thing in the history of Star Wars. That being said your video allowed me to look on the New Republic of Legends with a more critical and skeptical eye and acknowledge that it isn't the perfect follow up to the original trilogy. That being said I don't feel that the New Republic of Cannon is any better. I have repeatedly felt a narrative dissatisfaction, and a times outright disgust, at the way the New Republic has been portrayed in Cannon. It doesn't feel like a New Republic born out of the sacrifices, loss, and lessons of the Old Republic and Galactic Civil War. It just feels like the Old Republic again just with an unrealistically naïve focus on "peace" and "pacifism". I suppose on the surface this alone wouldn't bother me, but the fact that the New Republic is shown dehumanizing Imperial Prisoners by striping away their names and giving them numbers, or their willingness to use mind flayers just angers me. I can not in any way fathom a government born from those that fought against these very elements, elements that in the fiction were portrayed as evil, embracing those same elements. I don't mind that the New Republic of Cannon is imperfect, if anything I think it is a better and more interesting take on things. But for the New Republic to abandon the ideals on which it was founded and fall into the same shortfalls and corruption that the Old Republic did so soon after it's reestablishment just leaves me feeling frustrated and angered.
This was a very good comparison video. Well done! You got my subscription. Now I only looked at a bit of new Republic stuff in legends on the wiki, But to be honest I like the new Republic in canon. It shows that they are still somewhat blinded and for the part with the memory thing from mando it shows that the new republic is not to be trusted as well, like if word got out that they were mind erasing former imoerials all hell would break loose because i bet Montha knows nothing about that.. but overall i see the new republic in canon a bit better than in legends like after they defeat thrawn since he returned it will be peace in the galaxy until the first order came along.
The New Republic being written by multiple authors especially in the 90s conflicts with 2000s, 2010, and 2020s. Many yielded great portrayals of the NR while others told/showcase terrible writing
Such is the case for most Star Wars concepts. At least that makes it wide enough for many to enjoy!
As much as it saddens me to see the New Republic fail to learn the lessons of history, fall to compromise on its values in some areas while holding fast to the ones it should let go, and fail to incorporate its Rebel elements cohesively… it’s kinda the point, and a good point to make.
These are lessons we haven’t learned in real life so maybe seeing the consequences in easy to digest fiction will help us do things better
Felt
Interesting and detailed video, but I fail to see how the canon New Republic is portrayed with nuance when its failure boils down to Imperial loyalists or uncaring politicians.
If the Sequels era is supposed to be an era of peace, why were there a significant number of Imperial sympathizers in the government? Nostalgia for eras of authoritarian order often come from the current time period being one of instability. Canon also includes Operation Cinder, when Imperial forces fired on loyal worlds. I find it hard to believe that people would remain loyal to the government that tried to destroy their world.
The canon is in the unfortunate position of having to justify why the New Republic failed in the Sequels while surviving constant threats in the tv shows. Maybe if they showed a generational decay in leadership, but the tv shows already demonstrate that the New Republic was ignorant to threats like Thrawn or Gideon even a few years after the Empire’s defeat.
Very interesting comment, you’ve given me a lot to think about. I definitely still consider an imperfect government dealing with those who benefitted from a former regime ideologically to be nuanced - especially considering Operation Cinder. With Operation Cinder, many former Imperial loyalists were soured and weren’t willing to call themselves Imperial anymore, and joined the New Republic, but they actually still wanted that kind of authority in their galaxy, causing political strife. But still, a government unwilling to emulate anything at all from the Empire has trouble governing properly, and that makes sense to me.
Bro what is the beautiful background music you use in your videos!!
Star Wars official Lo Fi Starlight Beacon track!
@@StarWarsCentralized so much love to you!’
Can’t wait to see this channel grow. We need nuanced & mature Star Wars takes!!
That means so much to me! You are too kind!
I'm a bit confused by the video and comments suggesting the EU New Republic was idealistic, efficient, and effective 😂🤔 Going so far as to not even mentioning that corruption and weakness in cohesion were primary concerns for the government in the very book that kicked the EU off. Heir to the Empire shows us a very weak and fragmented NR political apparatus thats nearly crippled by the mere suggestion of financial corruption...not to mention the Bothans Camaas document possibly being at Mount Tantis being so lightly suggested at during the Thrawn Trilogy.
I always found the tedious and strained politics keeping the government together to be very believable, where the version we get in the Disney Canon seems completely unbelievable. They treat it like a magic trick, and the NR was born and thus it was 😂 🫴The EU version of it was laid out in years, and transitions, and upheavals, and grueling warfare against remnants and breakaway warlord factions, internal divisions that threatened civil war or secession...which is what our own real history shows us when empires fall or revolutions take control of a political system.
That’s exactly my point though. All of that corruption and tediousness that the EU new Republic had, it has as a threat to the majority good people who are actively working for betterment. Whereas canon is the inverse, with the majority of the NR being that type of weak, corrupt individual, while the heroes must work on the outskirts. This isn’t 100% accurate 100% of the time, but it feels generally consistent
Also, the EU NR was defined so much by out-of-universe decisions to make constant conflict keep happening, just like the Canon NR with the sequels making it necessarily inept
@@StarWarsCentralized Yeahhh, but the EU NR maintained a certain amount of believability as a political entity, even if the story it existed in was somewhat disjointed. I can't say the Canon version feels like a viable political "thing." In fact, I'd say that HAVING the prequels gives greater believability to the EU NR. Constantly fretting over the titles of the top political figure, the reorganization of the legislative and executive bodies' powers and forms, the various saber rattling factions and those against militarism...these all received some weight after seeing the Old Republic bicker endlessly until it fell into civil war and authoritarianism. Canon's NR comes off like some bright-eyed re-imagining of the Ruusan Reformation, but thematically bastardized. It has very little reason to exist in the context we've gotten within the new Canon, and there's every reason (in what we'd see in our real world) for the galaxy to balkanize or enter a vast warlord era. The storyboard for Disney gives no actual reason for star systems to want to join, and no reason for the NR to seek it's own existence. The Imperial Remnant remains, but this NR doesn't enter a cold war against it, and disarms...for reasons of appearance??? That's an impossible political stance. No government known to us would act like that...either the body politic would have so much severe trauma that it'd demand an arms race/cold war with a very light trigger finger (which it doesn't seem to have...in Bloodlines, you'd expect the mere whiff of the First Order or the slightest movement of an Imperial Remnant ISD would lead to panic and war drums - but nada), or would be so consumed with lingering outrage over abuses that the demand for completely dissolving the Empire would require total conquest and capture.
We only have to look at Europe after the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, the expansion of NATO and the political ramifications of it's eastward growth, the emergence of the European Union and it's growing political power, and the shift from a bipolar world order to a unipolar one, and the rise of new regional powers...all of the issues we face 30 years after that geopolitical shift you'd expect to see reflected in Disney's artistry, but they chose not to.
And the weird authoritarianism with the Canon NR that we're seeing isn't something we can recognize in real life. While the concept of placating opposition with technology is very Dark Mirror-esque, no government IRL acts like that. The mask of happy oppressors is always a fable, our governments are openly lying and react viciously to opposition or pushback - especially in the West...while enjoying their technocratic spy networks that violate our liberties. Governments that behave like this rely heavily on a military industrial apparatus to enforce and prop up their regime, and you'd EXPECT the Disney Canon NR to behave like that - but they don't.
This is a wonderfully video thank you, I do wonder though what would George Lucas version of the new republic be? had he made his own sequel trilogy?
Thank you so much! It would probably be a little more focused on the government and how Leia had changed it
Fantastic video! I’m reading Bloodline right now, and it feels to me that the canon new republic is also trying to talk about the large political differences within the American government through the Centrists and Populists. These two groups seem to be very split with vastly different ideals, much like the right and left of the American political spectrum.
this video has got me thinking a lot about star wars post-war on terrorism and how its criticism holds up in the face of something like Ukraine which goes to show how thought provoking your analysis is! awesome video, tysm!
Thank you so much!
I feel like I adore legends New Republic because I’m very amused by this idea of a new government after a brutal dictatorship that is able to rebuild peace and democracy and ran well. But also I love the New Republic in canon because it feels realistic, shows more of what governments and politics really are, though even with all this bad aspects it’s still a “lesser evil” compared to an authoritarian government and that to keep this more balanced society needs constant fighting and inspection of any inner or outside possible dangers
I feel the exact same way! The NR of Legends is just great storytelling and escapism, and the canon one is kinda depressingly realistic lol
@@StarWarsCentralized both can give great experiences, I’m anxious to more books and Disney plus shows on this era so we can know more of how was the New Republic 😁
@@StarWarsCentralized On the other hand, the canon version does have the benefit of not electing a moron who's stupid political games almost let Thrawn beat them to run it where in his stupid political games pretty much led to its collapse in an extra-galactic invasion.
Having just recently re-read the Thrawn Trilogy, I can say that I feel like the NR was a bit more nuanced that raw escapism.
That’s true, it’s always a bit nuanced, but broad strokes, I feel like the old EU was more escapist
Outstanding video on why the New Republics were written as they were.
Thank you!
It really doesn't matter whether the New Republic was political or not it was definitely better than the damn empire that's for sure. Although it could've been made so it was less political and more of a freedom HQ that helps people.
I mean New Jedi Order onwards showed the problems of the new Republic
True! My favorite Star Wars books. But they seemed to me to be more external than internal
@@StarWarsCentralized Yeah, no Fey'lya running The New Republic pretty much mad the Vong's job considerably easier.
Canon: they basically fell right back into the same stupidity that caused the downfall of the Republic in the first place without a seconds thought and failed as a result
Legends: they struggled for a while but they pulled through in the end
In Legends they were destroyed and had to reform into a new government
@@StarWarsCentralized Well, reforming into a new government could be considered "pulling through in the end" since they weren't fully destroyed (admittedly canon NR might have been reformed into something after Rise of Skywalker but iirc there is not mention or indication of it yet).
I really hate how Disney handles much of new Star Wars, from rushed eras, bad characters, nostalgia baiting, etc
I think both canon and legends have had those things
@@StarWarsCentralized its more so blatant with Disney Canon but Legends certainly has it as it's a no Brainerd you'll have some bad stories for a continuity with many varying writers
@@mysticspace3369but at least Legends had good writers
The canon new republic tried too hard to not become fascists after overthrowing the fascists.
Hence, they become NOTHING instead😂
I just hope that the Ahsoka series shows the NR become more competent at least for a while.
I have a feeling this comes from a desire to have the Good Guys associate with a faction with more nuance than an overly heroic and propagandistic faction like the Old Republic of the Clone Wars.
As much as I loved a lot of the older Legends books, on retrospect it bothers me that a lot of the books endorsed the kind of Galactic Policing and foreign violence, like those reflected in real world proxy wars.
I like that they've portrayed the New Republic as a more flawed government, much more akin to many real-world newly made democracies after years of dictatorial rule.
There was a deleted scene in The Force Awakens where Leia and an agent of hers were frustrated that the New Republic was not committing enough to battle the First Order, and was being complacent and I while it is in the Novelization, it would have helped and added more weight to Starkiller Base destroying it.
I'd like to see more of that. An exploration of the morally gray waters of the NR trying to move forward and demilitarize. I have a feeling that after Thrawn's death, they will become more isolationist, like how it was in The Force Awakens.
Making want to read Claudia Gray’s Bloodlines
It’s great!
The canon New Republic is actually 1 of my favourite things in SW. Its mistakes go hand in hand with the ones from the prequels and complete each other perfectly. While the prequels Republic is too militarised and agressive, the New Republic is too relaxed and peaceful. Which r both ironically the problems of modern USA. On 1 hand US supports Israel, on the other it isn't decisive enough when it comes to Ukraine, thus supporting 2 genocides at once. And in Star Wars's case, it makes perfect sense, as corruption is to blame in both cases, yet the Rebel leaders who founded the New Republic were focused mainly on Palpatine. And who can blame them? It is morally complex, yet not completely evil, like all non-totalitarian governments r (totalitarian r evil and not at all morally complex, like the Empire).
The Expanded Universe is far more realistic then the Disney canon in many ways, for example the speed at which the New Republic wins against the Empire is ridiculous. In one year they go from a handful of ships to building dreadnoughts and crushing the entire Imperial navy in a single battle, in comparison the only dreadnoughts the NR has in the EU for a very long time are the handful they mange to steal from the Remnant. The Empire was enormous and had hundreds of thousands of ships, in the EU the only reason the New Republic managed to win is because the Imperial Remnant spent more time fighting each other then they did the New Republic. I would say about 90 percent of Imperial loses were self inflicted but it didn't happen overnight. Had the Remnant been united especially by someone like Thrawn they would have squished the New Republic like a bug. The pro militarism in the New Republic was a matter of survival not political grand standing. Also the New Republic in the EU didn't so much die as it evolved, the NR and Remnant finally decided to let go of the past and Reunited finally and truly ending the Civil War. The New Republic in the EU had a lot of issues but the NR in the DC is a joke, it was even worse than the Old Republic in many ways, ruled by idealistic fools and corrupt bureaucrats from both the Old Republic and the Empire, it's doom was inevitable from the start.
I talk about this in a new video I’m making
Also “DC” for “Disney canon” is a new one
Both versions have the writers siding with the military hawks over the mistaken, scheming politicians. It's not a good lesson to take from a Star Wars story, and it's no wonder that many readers/players started considering the Empire not so bad (pretty much a matter of, say, Thrawn and Pellaeon junta "bad guys" vs. Akbar-Trio-Rogue Squadron junta "good guys"; and the new canon version of NR politicians being annoying to the cool and correct military dudes under Hera achieves pretty much the same). The other alternative were the Stackpole novels, which justified the NR's Rogue Squadron junta by making the Empire much more evil than it ever was depicted on film or in George-curated secondary material. Not ideal either. The BETTER approach would be to show the "enlightened military junta" under Thrawn rise to power, but THEN be defeated by the NR not IN SPITE of its politics ("hard military guys have to stop the complaining and scheming Bothan/Asian complaining politician guy"), but BECAUSE of it: say, the planets that Thrawn captured start sabotaging the economic production, demanding representation they had under the Republic, or various companies supply the New Republic forces with advanced fighters and Star Destroyers, having tasted the freedom of business, instead of being content with the Empire's system of state capitalism. George has seeded it RIGHT THERE IN THE FILMS with the Trade Federation and the question of how controlled should the corporations be (Palpatine baiting TradeFed and other Megacorps into outright rebellion to finish off any possible organized production of weapons for those fighting his future regime). The epilogue to the galactic civil war should be that a GOOD Republic does not need "strong men making hard choices", that a democracy can stand tall on its own. Instead it's either descent into warlordism (Legends), which makes sense, but does not a good message make, or immediate return to pre-war pacifism, with predictable results, - it makes it so the galaxy learned NOTHING over Palpatine's reign and Tarkin's crimes (legends - turned into junta warmongers themselves; new canon - back to the old, weak state that got subverted way too easily).
Very very good comment!
This I very much agree with. Both EU and Canon have the classic Mil Sci Fi issue of "politicians bad, military good" (This even extends to good guy Palleon and IR-NR unification in Legends).
I very much dislike Operation Cinder and find the Imperial Warlords much more realistic but perhaps the Galactic Civil War could have ended some years earlier.
I think demilitarisation in canon was a bad choice, repeating a mistake of the old Republic. But you would need to make sure what comes out isn't "politicians bad, military good". So what is needed is a limited military under strong civilian control/supervision as is the case in practically every liberal democracy.
I want the New Republican to be depicted as flawed, but my issue with so much New Canon stuff is that it seems to keep depicting the rapid Demilitarization as a mistake, all these stories where the Solders are correct and the politicians are just getting in the way of them doing what needs to be done is itself a common feature of the Fascist mindset.
I honestly would prefer the New Republic be like how it was in Legends but simply framed far more critically.
I agree. We need to see that the NR’s weaknesses lie in other areas
1:58
And somehow feelt more naturall than George's ideas. How is this even possible? I love George. He is George. But sometimes he goes to far in a few places.
Hope Dave Filoni's movie will be about Elon Mu-ı mean Thrawn. He is building him up since the rebels. His va and actor is the same dude. And hope Luke will be the main hero.
I feel like the book X-wing Starfighters of Adumar did show us a more negative side to the NR. Like what happens when one of the worlds they want to join isn’t a United world. Basically what happens when they come to Earth?
I love that type of conflict
Team Thrawn and Chiss!
In my honest opinion the NR in Canon is a very weak version of the Legends NR which is their downfall in Canon
I don’t like how they make the new republic in the Disney canon just as corrupt as the empire .
It’s definitely not!!! It’s just imperfect, much like in Legends except it’s more acknowledged in Canon
I find it funny that George Lucas's own view of the Republic seems to be "Get rid of Palpatine put in Leia and the Republic works!"
Demilitarisation honestly makes less sense to me with the context of the Prequels.
The old Republic was demilitarised and the Empire was born out of its crash remilitarisation in response to a massive crisis.
To me the most sensible solution is maintaining a standing military, albeit one far smaller and much more limited (also under civilian government control) than the Empire.
With New Republic demilitarising they are simply repeating one of the mistakes of the old.
I actually see it as making *more* sense with the prequels, as the Empire was started through a politician having power over a huge military buildup. So, creating a much more limited military for the New Republic is their way to avoid an overly ambitious leader from taking advantage of the military as Palpatine did.
@@StarWarsCentralized Ah, but the way it happened was that Palpatine built a military from scratch (secretly doing so and then buying it for the Republic, technically) with the Republic needing a military to fight the Separatists but not having one. Therefore the Clone Army (secretly under Palpatine's full control via contingency orders/indoctrination or chips, depending on the timeline) was easily accepted ans questioned little.
If the had an established military it could have had an existing military culture/tradition. One which would likely have sworn oaths to the constitution to defend it and democracy against enemies foreign and domestic, and one which might have resisted Palpatine's takeover (not certain, with example of Weimar Germany that was one of George's big example but with the Republic having such long history a culture like US or British military that would resist a dictatorial takeover would be possible).
What NR needed was a professional volunteer military that could maintain the traditions of the Rebel Alliance and be ready to defend the Republic in case the Imperial Remnants, Neo-Imperialists within the Republic or even foes from outside like the Vong were to entail threats. But one with clear constitutional limits and a respect for the civilian government and democracy to avoid a junta.
at 16:30 i realized..... why DID han become a general???? Han never really showed any sort of military expertise in the OT, he was a good pilot, and a decent shot, but a General??? that never made sense in hindsight.
He *kinda* had some experience between ANH and ESB… but not really much else lol
Yes, I ♡ The Legends New Republic more instead of Disney Canon New Republic indeed!
That’s okay! They serve very different purposes and come from very different places
Cool
Given how things were set up both the New Republic and resistance was destine to fail. In reality it would make sense for new Republic to go against the first order because bureaucracies are equal in power, the resistance was funded by the new Republic but lacked in style(terrible outfits) and ships(resistance bombers). Not mention it repeats the script of broke freedom fighters vs a galactic government. "Starwars: bloodline" was genuis, the New Republic getting eradicated by their own ignorance set the whole trilogy up for failure.
New Republic government.
The Canon New Republic just feels weak on the fact they barely even built anything about it. Like any of the expanded media set in the time period is just this vague slurry of events.
That’s true. The whole picture is MUCH more clear and much stronger.
"Sequels" are trash and don't matter. Disney has only made 1 decent movie (Rogue One) and 1 decent series (Andor) everything else has been a massive shit on everything before it.
I love the Sequels
A serious political analysis of the NR in legends implies it is one of 3 things
A citizen republic (a republic where only veterans can vote, would explain how the alliance elites consistently wins elections, From my view this is the only liberal government the I can believe the NR can possibly be as presented, however based on the likely politics of the writers, this is unlikely.
A Military Dictatorship (This is honestly the most optimistic view of the NR as presented)
An Elitist Oligarchy (Very pessimistic view of the NR, where the rebel elites centralize all power themselves, and like the latter 2 takes, explains how the rebel elites dominate politics in a galaxy still full of people that still support the empire)
I refuse to believe the NR is a Democracy as presented, because it would likely have at least just around half of its representatives being open imperial sympathizers. And the fact that for most of its existence, Mothma and Leia were self appointed heads of state with lots of executive authority.
There can be a simple explanation - as the EU NR gained foothold over the galaxy slowly, gradually over the years, it initially consisted of planets that were anti-imperial at their core, like Mon Calamari or Chandrilla, so they represented a common political attitude, a bit like the original US 13 colonies. More planets joined NR either voluntarilly having deposed their weak pro-imperial governments, or as a result of military campaigns against imperial remnants (in which case there were probably purges within former imperial administration), or simply seeing NR bringing political stability. Paradoxically, Disney NR's flaws come from its very rapid (compared to EU) takeover of the galaxy.
@@Macielos1 That can explain it early on, but Mothma and Leia both dominated the role of head of state for nearly 20 years, long after the NR came to control most of the galaxy.
It's not that pro-imperial worlds would remain pro-imperial forever no matter the circumstances. The Empire lasted for 30-40 years or so, and was preceded by thousand-year-old Old Republic. I could easily imagine imperial influence on some former pro-imperial worlds weakening as a result of NR's political influence and successful military campaigns against warlords who could potentially rally imperial sympathizers. Also - perhaps the most importantly - NR had much to offer even to traditionally pro-imperial factions - corporations, great houses etc., as they could still make shitloads of money for constructing ships and other stuff for NR instead of the Empire. E.g. Kuat Drive Yards' management was replaced with pro-Republic ones and then participated in constructing next-gen NR fleet (yeah, I played Thrawn's Revenge). In Disney timeline all those pro-imperial factions were so eager to support Imperial Remnants and then First Order because brain-dead Mon Mothma simply cut off their sources of income and offered nothing in return.
@@Macielos1 That still doesn't change the fact that 2 self appointed officials ruled for 20 years, I'll believe the Bird guy (can never remember his name) was actually elected though. Although with this comment you didn't say anything that suggests that Leia, and Mothma were in any way elected fairly, just that everyone accepted their rule.
@@goldengyarados3515 You also doesn't have anything to suggest they were elected unfairly. I suppose they had an election when Rebel Alliance transformed into NR. It's a natural mechanism that in wartime democracies rally around strong political leaders and that happened with Leia and Mon Mothma, as much as with Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher or Volodymyr Zelensky.
There is no nuance in the way Ahsoka depicted the NR. Heavily disagree with the implication that canon has been sufficient.
It’s nuanced considering that’s the government started by the undoubtedly good guys in the original trilogy, and that Leia had to lie in order to make Hera’s actions not illegal
Though yes, canon should be doing much more and I haven’t found it completely sufficient due to their lack of content in the era
@@StarWarsCentralized Leia bailing out her "friend" is the exact opposite of what a democratic system with control over the military and its officers is supposed to do. Hera needed to show *real* evidence to support her claim, like, I don't know, videos of the hyperdrive being stolen, or her own flight recordings, not "I'm a General so what I say goes!" Instead, she just criticised an elected official for not being a combatant and acted antagonistic towards the system she's supposed to represent, she knowingly took a minor into a combat situation, and her recklessness cost the lives of at least 3 x-wing pilots! She should have been court-martialed at best!
This is why rebels make lousy military officers.
@@StarWarsCentralized I'm of the opinion that Hera's actions were not only illegal and deeply unethical, but wrong. It is not bad that elected civilians are able to hold unelected military officials accountable for their actions. It is not bad that those elected officials do not agree with protagonists, or come across as unlikable. She does a massive disservice to everyone who fought in the rebellion by implying those who did not have no right to question those who did. Thrawn does not pose a threat to the NR if the NR does not panic - I think realistically, Thrawn pops into the galaxy and immediately has to refuel. If he does, the NR world he rolls up on is going to be full of alliance veterans leading effective militias, and they're going to wipe the floor with him. A wild goose chase only further discredits the NR's military.
I don't think it's bad that they show the protagonists as fallible and responsible for mistakes that endangered the NR, but I do think that it is bad that the NR is so feeble and inept that they can't survive fallible protagonists.
I really dislike the canon portrayal of The New Republic as this weak lazy government that gets lazily swept under the rug in Episode 7 cause JJ Abrams is a bad writer. Like, I feel like they should have been the good guy's idealized government. It weakens the whole goal of the good guys and everything they've fought for. Making a new government inspired by the Republic of old, but without its flaws and corruption. Making something that works, like a happier ending. Instead of just THIS. It's lame, it's disappointing, and it also just feels like an excuse to justify JJ Abram's nonsense in Episode 7. Also, great video!
Also I will always hate Lucas basing the rebels off the fucking Viet Cong and the Empire off America, but at least it's become its own thing since then.
First, I'd argue the Sequel Trilogy, namely Last Jedi, is as political as the Prequels or at least the OT, if more 'culturally' political then geoopolitically political like Lucas was. Denigrating old heroes to replace them with new ones is political. Other series have had passing of the torches too, but they were done respectfully. Dragonlance for instance, didn't feel the need to have Tanis turn into a failure or have Tika and Cameron to separate and be bad parents. Hell, Let the Past Die, Kill it if you have to, is a blatantly political statement.
Second, if LEgends seemed to attribute the fall of the Old Republic primarily to Palpatine instead of it's own failings, then Disney Canon does the same with the New Republic what with Operation CInder, and the secret council of Moffs working for Palpatine, and other hints like that, whereas the New Republic in Legends all but defeated the Empire and fell instead to an extragalactic threat, and later a new Sith Empire.
“Let the past die, kill it if you have to” would be more of a political statement if the film didn’t refute it by its end
Do you think there was a concerted, political agenda to denigrate the original trilogy’s heroes?
@@StarWarsCentralized Certainly Luke in the Last Jedi. And they needlessly killed of Akbar to replace him with Holdo.
Han and Leia suffered from the modern divorce/broken home phenomena affecting the culture.
Leia was treated, better, admittedly, but even so, they have blatantly been ignoring all of the OT heroes to push their newer, more politically appealing heroes like Ahsoka, Sabine, Din Djarin, Bo Katan, Ezra, and such, stealing the stories the original heroes had, like their fight against Thrawn, and giving it to the new characters who've replaced them.
Yes, in part it's because the Original Trilogy's original actors are not young enough to play their characters, and Carrie Fisher has unfortunately passed but then they can and have made animated shows to depict Anakin and Obi Wan fighting the Clone Wars, they could have made an animated show about Luke, Han, Leia, taking on Thrawn.
@@StarWarsCentralized It killed Luke, and completely robbed him of the achievement of being the one who reistablished the Jedi. That's killing the Past. And robbing it's grave.
What do you mean by “politically appealing”? A lot of what you’re talking about with the sequels was the result of wanting a reset status quo, not punishing the characters for some anti-American agenda
I don't think I can ever forgive Disney for screwing up so much lore and our most beloved characters... I really hate hero deconstruction trope.
TLDR: the Disney sequel is worse
That the empire was better
Fascism and genocide is bad, actually
@@eldricshadowchaser5454 no, im pretty sure the empire did nothing wrong
🤮🤮🤮
Thanks for the insight
@@StarWarsCentralized 😎👌
But seriously, Legends version of the New Republic better.
In some ways, yes
"Today's Star Wars is less political" 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
When’s the last time a main character mockingly quoted the president
@StarWarsCentralized identity politics being forced down our throats with no subtly. Male characters completely inferior to female ones. Couldn't be more political if it tried
You think "women = political"
@@bigfloppa9594 when it's feminazi politics yeah
@@cameronbrown940 there are no "feminazi" politics in star wars. You're just really triggered and soft
I don't agree with a single damn thing you said. Art is not subject ironically this isn't coming from me but those who believe is art being subjective, until they say its not; When does a clearly anti-war art peace become come pro-war? When its not about art but the politics. Why does the new republic have to repeat the mistakes of the past? Just cause George one said "It's like poetry... It rhymes" so that translates to no progress in any lessons learned. That proposes everything is fatalistic and nothing will every change or that its fates to be one was and no other out come could or is allowed to occur.
As you how the pre-Disney Canon was shabbily put to gather you know who else was making-things-up-on-the-fly, the people making the sequels. The different between the two is one was made by fans the other was not.
8:45 And there's were 'the current year' kicks in 9:58 Yah cause not everyone believes in the whole everythings political and all art must have a political message.
10:11 And fantasy is not meant to be escapism? We are to be perpetually politically engaged at al times of out lives?
11:17 Yah, it what's called, Fun. Not everything have to have really world politics and narratives in all entertainment including kids shows all the time.
11:45 Well if you ignore the terrorist actions and that 9/11 ever was a thing that happened of cause America will looks like the only bad ones, that tens to happen when you apply 'framing' argument method.
12:48 You are such a lier. Seriously you CAN'T say they allied "Softer political themes" while showing the New Order emulate the nazi imagery and behavior.
13: Disney Star Wars is nothing to do with the underdogs, we want hero's but they don't want to do that, instead they deconstruct the old Hero's and reinvent the meaning of the word hero to now mean who's the more of a victim.
14:26 The lighter fluid that burn the ture canon for this false one.
15:25 They shat on the hero's legacy whom fans loved for decades and for what.
That's the issue they made them unremarkable. You take so much how the real world influences the made up fantasy but you know what those same made up characters help inspire people in real life, to look up to. Now thats all gone (according to Disney canon). You know nothing inspires people to achieve for excellence when hollywood keep showing that was all in vane
17:14 All those shows were horrible suck the bug one.
17:43 There is no nuance, positive within any Disney Star Wars there in solely an abyss of negative spewing from this fowl mockery imitation of Star Wars. That is not subjective that is the grounded fundamental state or reality. To say other wise means your subjectivity has become more of a hindrance on judging quality. Your not spousing a mer opinions but heightened denial and delusion nonsense.
Despite what you've said in your comment, I thank you for it and sharing your point of view. But I will never waver on the fact that art is absolutely not objective. To answer "When does a clearly anti-war art peace become come pro-war?" is complicated, because it is a combination of artist's intent, the time it was released, and how the audience receives it. So much art, when commenting on the human condition, is political in some way, even if unintended. If a piece of art depicts government in any way, there is something political about it, whether the artist intended it or not.
The New Republic repeating the mistakes of the past seems to be the overall arc of the era in canon because it was so significant in the prequels, and they wanted to follow up on it. Change comes through failure and then realization of failure. All art that features politics is inherently political.
There is nothing wrong with escapism! I never criticize the old EU for being more escapist than canon, just point it out. But also, escapist fiction still represents political ideas in a way. Escapism is awesome and valuable, yet still can have politics if you choose to analyze it at the level I'm doing here. That doesn't make it bad!
Also, 9/11 was a tragedy, but come on - you can't really justify the colossal domino-effect of chaos the US's invasion of Iraq was.
To your point about 'softer political themes', the First Order are very much less political than the conflict represented in the prequels. You've gotta admit that. Yes, they invoke nazi imagery, but that's all pretty baseline for most of the sequels, at the same level it was in the originals.
I hope you earnestly read my comment and try to see things in a less black-and-white way.
@@StarWarsCentralized To you last point of 'see things in a less black-and-white way." never gonna happen. For if it wasn't they you got tell me what's the 'nuance view' on slavery, sexual assault and child murder? I find gray morality extremely abhorrent, excessive moral relativism does nothing but blurring the line, in turn help the darkness bleed over the light. When roads paved with good intention has shown to go very bad imagine how much worst would be with less than good intent most the time?
Speaking about thing being 'justify' in your humble opinion what would suggest we would have done after the eleventh of September attack. Nothing is not an answer, a foreign and ancient enemy of the west that has yet again attacked and killed your countrymen. Action must be taken, in what way I leave to you. (I'm asking you kindly not maliciously.)
By the way what political theme of Charlotte's Web?
Charlotte’s web is a moot point because I said all fiction that depicts government or policy in some way is inherently political even if unintended.
Moral relativism is an interesting place to go from my comment. I’m just talking about art here, I’m not talking about political opinions.
Operation Iraqi Freedom was not the way to go about a response to the September 11th attacks.