The Most Overrated Studio Gear (and the Most Underrated)
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- Опубліковано 2 вер 2021
- Justin Colletti gives his picks for the most overrated studio gear for recording, mixing and mastering, as well as the most underrated studio tools.
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#recordingstudio #audioengineer #musicmixing #micpreamps #micpres #converters #adconverters #daconverters #musicmixing #compression #serialcompression #layeringcompression #layeredcompressors #stackingcompressors #stackedcompression #stackedcompressors #compressionandlimiting #parallelcompression #audiomixing #audioengineer #musicproducer #musicproduction #limiting #limiter #EQ #AudioEngineer #mixing
Honestly, as I get older, I'm now viewing a decent chair (that doesn't increase my occasional lower back pain) or maybe even a standing desk as an under-rated necessity!
I’m 30 and man do I love having a simple ergonomic desk now. 😅
Ergo Chair, Mouse, and Keyboard my man. You hit the nail on the head
Spot on. I’ve been through 2 major spinal surgeries and just lost my job due to not having a well setup desk and chair. I recently upgraded my chair, electric sit/stand desk and using both hands for mousing. Huge improvement and obviously regret not having so it years ago
drum throne is the most underated gears in drumming..for me at least..the proof is the price
I went chair shopping about 5 years ago and found the best chair I’ve ever used long term. It’s called the Embody chair sold at Design Within Reach. Aerons are also incredible. Both are long term sitting chairs and work for people of all weights and sizes.
I've got a Neve summing mixer that never gets used - just a bunch of pretty lights for the studio. In blind tests, clients would more often choose the ITB mix over the Neve.
@@devianthousend Luxury problem, I know
Wanna sell it, lol?
Then you’re probably not using it right or your gain structure on the way to the summer is off. Summing is about gluing groups together with varying levels of harmonic distortion vs running the mix through a stereo saturation box like the Black Box or Culture Vulture. When removed, there should be a discernible loss of FEELING.
All those commenting are probably overated
gotta say i hear a lot of blind preamp tests and they sound vvvv similar to my ears but i heard a neve summing A/B and was blown away actually when i was really expecting it to be indiscernable, so was surprised to hear you say this. im still saving up for one
Yes! So regarding "Maybe YOU can't hear the difference!" I'll tell you who absolutely cannot hear the difference and doesn't care. The person at the bus stop listening on their iPhone earbuds. I've never once heard an end-user say - Oh I love that track but would it have killed them to have used a Neve preamp on the lead vocal?! Nobody cares.
I totally agree with your point regarding acoustic treatment. For those of us mixing ITB on a desktop and powered monitors, I'd say an uninterruptible power supply is an absolute must. Where I live the power has been rock solid for more than 20 years but this year there's been a number of freak storms that have caused power cuts. Twice while I've been mixing. My next studio gear acquisition will be made by APC!
I TOTALLY agree with you! My next purchase will be an APC, too! I've been needing one for a long time and I was aware that I do need one, but I would always find some reason to delay making that purchase.
The point you're making with the "person at the bus stop listening on their iPhone earbuds" is one I make all the time. I have good, decent studio gear, but I do not have expensive, boutique style gear and yet I can make as good a music with my gear as the next guy who owns tons of expensive outboard gear, because at the end of the day, IF you really know your craft, you can make ITB mixes that sound just as good as mixes done on outboard gear and the "person at the bus stop listening on their iPhone earbuds" will not be displeased with the record they're listening to and say "man, I really wish this song was not mixed ITB, but rather I wish it was mixed on a real analog console with all the right analog outboard gear".
That's NEVER going to realistically happen. So we should rather focus on improving our mixing skills, our craft, and not obsess over not having a Neve preamp, or some other expensive hear out there.
They would care if suddenly all they could buy sounded like total trash. The fact is, they still for the most part get to experience something extremely sophisticated. I've never liked the idea that end users don't have any intuitive sense of the quality in what they are hearing.
@@JG-to8sp Nobody said anything about quality. The end user often has absolutly no idea how the music was produced what equipment was used or who the producer was, who the eginner was what studio it was recorded in or who made the instruments. All this has absolutley nothing to do with the quality percieved by the user.
@@Justin_the_Analog_IC_architect An end consumer is not concerned about the issues that we obsess over, anymore than I care about the manufacturing decisions of BMW cars, but I have a level of expectation from BMW that I take for granted. My point is that just because they can’t specify what was used on a record doesn’t mean they don’t care, we are a service industry that has insanely high standards and its very successful because of that.
If consumers don’t care, it’s because the standard is high enough they don’t have to.
@@JG-to8sp I can't think of a worse analogy.
I agree with you 100%... but man... you could've said that in 5 minutes instead of 20.
Right!! This channel brings interesting topics but each video lasts approximately 20 minutes and more when each time it could be done in a less than 10 minutes video... So I am ending watching this channel in double speed mode lol I'm sure this channel would be sooo much better with 5 or 10 minutes formats and less repetitions. But anyway the topics are not so bad... Only youtubers think we can spend 24 hours watching long videos on UA-cam lol 😜
I was about to comment; 20 min saying same thing about pre-amps. It helps to tap '>' to speed up youtube. I tapped it twice.
It's for the algorithm, mo minutes, mo money
youtube has told you tubers that they need to be making longer videos. You'll notice that people that used to make 5-7 min videos are now making 14-17 min videos
@@andrewbetinsky5596 Make longer videos so we can put in more ads. 🤣
One of the best, if not THE best upgrades I did to my studio, is acoustic treatment. Without changing or adding a single piece of audio gear, I basically transformed my studio and started to realize that it wasn't my onboard preamps that needed upgrading, it wasn't the converters and it wasn't even my decent but modest studio monitors that needed upgrading.
In a very real way, all of this equipment was "upgraded" when I radically upgraded the acoustic treatment of my studio. Hearing the things I recorded and later mixing them in the improved acoustics space made me realize that the equipment was not the issue but rather the acoustics of the environment I was working in.
I 100% agree! Acoustic treatment is indeed the most underrated studio gear.
Thank you for this video, it has been really helpful along with many of your other videos. I will soon be building a recording studio around 23ft in length by 17.5ft wide by 10ft high and my first priority will be the sound treatment and air conditioning, but then I will be looking to upgrade some of my studio equipment. I currently have a Neumann TLM 102 microphone which I will be upgrading to a TLM 103, but I am unsure whether to either keep my Apollo Twin Duo MK2 and add something like the Audient ASP800 or Focusrite OctoPre (So that I can add some analog gear) or to sell my Apollo Twin and purchase the UAD Apollo 6x or other interface that you may recommend? Through the first channel I will be for recording my vocals with a TLM 103 into a Neve 1073 LB and then into the interface. The second channel will be my electric guitar going through a Kemper into the interface, so just two main inputs for recording. The only reason I will be using the extra channels is for the analog gear, for example compressors and EQ's. I have no intention of using the UAD plugins (I don't really use them currently) so would there be any noticeable difference? For example, would the Audient effect the quality of my analog gear or cause latency issues etc? Also I currently have some Yamaha HS8's and I am thinking or upgrading them to some monitors around £3,000 for the pair for mixing and mastering. Is there any that you'd recommend in that price range or would you just stick with the HS8's? Thank you for taking the time to read this long message, I really appreciate it and anyone else's input would also be greatly appreciated too. Thanks, Ben.
This is spot on. I work with a lot of new-ish artists and I can't tell you how many times I listen to recordings from poorly treated rooms. I always say acoustic treatment is the first thing to do before you start recording.
Such an excellent video and valuable advice. A few years back I started sniffing around pre-amps, and came across one of the best pieces of audio-related advice I've ever heard. And that was "if you have all the mics you want, a great monitoring system, and excellent room treatment, then maybe worry about pre-amps". I rely almost entirely on the pre-amps in my interfaces (all RME). Apart from those I have an AEA pre-amp designed for ribbon mics, and a relatively inexpensive tube-based ART pre-amp that gives me a "messed up" sound that is sometimes useful.
Good point on preamps. The number of pop records being cut on little UAD interfaces is really a testament to this.
I have been super impressed by my SPL crimson. It makes my DI guitar sound as good as ANYTHING I have used before.
Mics make a MASSIVE difference. Performance makes a difference. The production choices you make also make a huge difference.
nice to hear, i bought the Crimson too but my mic is a Rode NT1 and i am saving HARD for an AKG Xlii. But i will surely get an avedis ma 5 as well. Haven't set up yet and will do mostly ITB...is the Crimson truly colorful as they say? do you use it for mixing
@@stanleyassor3172 Honestly buddy the Crimson is amazing. I am thinking about getting a UAD interface just for the convenience and being able to run extra plugins....but as far as sound is concerned, I don't think there is any way I will prefer the UAD interface.
The crimson is such a bargain IMO. You get a lot of interface for that money, along with a decent 'control room' device.
I love the guitar direct in a hell of a lot. I used to love using Avalon gear for direct input, but I honestly think the sound I get from my Crimson is my favourite yet.
There is a great shootout on Gearslutz where people did a blind listening test between different devices. There you had a Metric Halo interface (worth over 2500) and the Crimson. Well, the Crimson won!
Which validates the comments made in this video. Often the differences are small, whilst the more expensive gear doesn't always win out!
I use mine for everything. I have taken to recording vocals with a dynamic mic recently and am getting incredible results - straight in with no processing.
Hope you get on well with yours!!
yes, choosing the optimal mic and placement saves sooooo much trouble and work down the line.
Hey Justin! Love the channel, I think I may owe my career to you and Matt from Capsule to Cone!
Could you do an episode on saturation? Common uses, what types favor what elements of a mix, tricks, etc.. How much is not enough? How much is too much? It it fine that I have one on my snare AND my drum bus? Is it common to have on the master bus? What elements would you always have it on? What elements would you never have it on?
"Enough" or "too much" are matters of taste, and also the era you live in.
Until somewhere in the early 1990's, nearly every audio engineer was aiming for ~less and less~ saturation. Noise and distortion were non-no's and digital cleanliness was the ideal being worked towards in every decade leading up to then.
FF to now:
There are different approaches to it, but saturation is fundamentally some combo of a) compression, b) clipping and c) waveshaping in one. Study those 3 basics and saturation will make a lot more (integrated) sense.
You can dive into saturation with freeware. Make mistakes. Spend an hour or two experimenting; push it too far, make it sound ugly - but be sure to set up your signal path to catch the overs with a limiter.
Preamps matter a lot. For a multitude of reasons. And can be extremely helpful to beginners.
Being able to drive a preamp into slight saturation controls your peak level and dynamics before hitting your computer.
If you have a more consistent waveform and the crest factor between the body of the sound and the peaks is smaller, everything is easier to process. This is a big one. If you add compression, the compression is working on the body of the sound and not just getting flapped around by the large peaks. If you add EQ, you are turning up the body of the sound and not just turning up the peaks. EQ and compression do what you want them to.... A lot of the time people think they cant use compression and EQ but they are simply trying to use these processors on crazy peaky material! The first time a beginner might EQ or compress a track that has been recorded well, it would be a total revelation. This is the problem with clean as a whistle audio interface preamps, they require a lot of processing to get the dynamics in check, and if you are new recording, there is simply no way you can work out how to do that immediately, it takes time to learn how one might use a chain (for example) process of saturation into EQ in to compression, into saturation again, into compression again, into tape saturation, to control the dynamics and stabilise a peaky, clean, digital sound and make it sound more like a great recording.
However, owning one decent preamp and cranking into distortion and then turning it back one or 2 clicks does a lot of this work for you!
And yes, I agree, it might not "sound a million times better", and you can achieve similar results with saturation plugins (If you know what you are doing!), but having a device that does a lot of heavy lifting on the front end (especially when you dont know they remedy for a problem) for you is invaluable to a beginner.
This is exactly on point.
20+ yr professional audio veteran here. Done feature films, short films, television and countless albums including engineering on major label artist releases. Gotta disagree about mic preamps. That’s actually the #1 underrated thing in a home studio, that has NOT been well duplicated ITB besides maybe Acustica stuff and makes a huge difference in quality and “feel”. If you plug your electric guitar into your interface and like that rubbery, dead tone, then know that you’re doing the same thing to your voice/sources going into the recording without quality pre-amplification. You don’t need a variety, just 1 solid mic pre. Everything will fall into place better and require way less processing in the mix. I’ve had $15k in plugins($10k in UAD alone)in my home set up and nothing turns out close quality wise without a preamp. You’re WAY better off with a decent hardware tracking channel and stock plugins(or just a handful of great plugins) than plugging straight into the interface and purchasing thousands of dollars of plugins to fix the thin and ill-defined tone you’re capturing. Too many ways it improves the sound and workflow to articulate everything but the right pre will provide density, smooth sibilance and capture transients more pleasantly... it’s that “sounds like a record” quality that people chase after for years because they discounted the importance of a decent mic pre in the first place. I like this guy but with all due respect I strongly disagree with that particular opinion. I’ve helped so many artist friends transform their recording just by adding a quality mic pre. It’s night and day every time. Not trying to debate, but there will be hundreds of loyal fans that hum to whatever tune in the comments section and lead young engineers astray. If you’re a fan of red pills, enjoy ✌️
I agree 22 years in the game. A good mic pre is a must. . You will notice the difference.
agree but i thought the guy was talking difference between 1073's vs 312's vs tg2 etc rather than difference between behringer interface preamps vs 1073s
You are so right a great pre amp saves time no need to use all the plug ins when it is applied creatively
I can hear a big difference also in distorted stuff, preamps brings on a kinda "life" to the sound also it's a time saver, so I also disagree with the guy in this video.
Dude I completely agree, I’m just starting out and on the hunt for a ams 1073 for that sound as UAD plugins are great but I want that subtle difference, I want that classic sound same thought for a future Compressor purchase. Have you ever tried Stam Audio gear I keep coming across them in my research?
Another amazing video.
Thank you!
Totally agree Justin! Preamps and converters may sound different and depending on what genre you’re recording, will lend themselves to what you want to hear in you’re own head. I can guarantee you that I can make a good recording of acoustic music using any type of pre. If you can do that in classical and jazz, etc, you can certainly make a great pop/rock/r&b recording with the same equipment. My recordings started sound better after I treated my room. A noticeable difference and I do indeed have golden ears. After treating the room, mic placement is everything!
Hi @SonicScoop, will a Kayotica Eyeball improve the “room” of the microphone?
I respectfully disagree in regards to pre-amps being overrated. I think that’s the important part of the chain IMO. Due to the fact it is the first thing in the chain. Same logic goes with a guitarists amplifier. You can have all the best guitar pedals and effects, just as you can have the best mic’s, eq’s, compressors etc, but if the pre-amp is lacking or isn’t appropriate for the source being recorded, then from my experience, you’ll most likely have to over saturate your signal through those said effects to get any vibe or color for your recorded source. This is just my opinion of course! Love this video and topic. Cheers
I can see your point but I also have to disagree and agree with justin and heres why, the mic pre is not the first source but the musician or artist is. And the way he or she articulates their instrument rather its vocals or a physical instrument is thee most important. Second is the microphone that is capturing that instrument and how its placed. Some instruments are DI but a lot of instruments are captured in a good acoustic room. the quality of the instrument can make a huge difference. this is why a yamaha motif will always sound better than a 200 dollar casio. This is why pro studios are adement about their rooms and room ambience. Preamps are just a matter of color. Think about this for a second. IF a studio has an amazing console like a NEVE VR 80 or SSL 6000G or API Legacy. those consoles come with amazing preamps and usually one per channel so were talking at least 58 to 80 preamps or depending on the channel count. SO why in the world do they need outboard gear of different preamps? its because its a choice of preamp colors more than just preamps itself. And also the preamp are going to be conjoined in a signal chain with compressors such as a LA2A or 1176 or distressor and maybe a pultec before hitting the converter. SO preamps are important but not as important as the artist or the musician and the quality and playing and sound quality of the instrument.
i would have to agree to thisagree to agree again to maybe hear some differences herein most people might not agree to hear and negligible differences might be agreeable upon a second listen to a trained ear sich as myself but most people would disagree because they
can I actually just base on computer with good audiointerface and make it 100% right?
Hope the AC gets fixed soon brotha xD !! But really keep up the episodes!
I have two ISA428 (original) 4 channel preamps. Those have switchable impedance, phantom power switched per channel, variable gain, a hi pass filter, an instrument in, and an effects loop. They sound great. The MkII version can be found for about $500/channel. The reason I have two of these is that I found it indispensable for recording anything through a mic so I bought a backup. This preamp can match every mic in my studio. It's very handy to put a compressor in the effects loop, which is another way to add character and control. Excellent way to record vocals, I would recommend it.
Headphone cables! Good headphone/. Cue system with good cables is overlooked too often. Great video as always
What do you mean when you say the front end is more important than the converters? I hear the word front-end being thrown around, but I’m not sure what persons mean by that phrase.
I think by 'front end' he means the analog transistor gain stages +/- capacitors, transformers, in the unit. As well as mic choice and placement, preamp choice and setting, room quality (treated?), hardware eq and/or compression inserted after the preamp and before the converter/tape machine.
I‘m 100% with you to the point that I was kind of bored by how long you went on about why preamps and converters are not that big of a deal😉😎
I thought the same.
regarding preamps: its rare I really hear differences in "sound" (in the mix mind you), but the difference in stereo perspective and the "3D" experience of air and presence CAN be very clear. Especially on drums, strings and vokals.
I like to have two types of DA preamps: neutral and colorful. But I mostly use the neutral ones. And it is in no way a must to have the crazy expensives (UAD or Apogee for instance).. we have them.. but I still use our Focusrite Clarett a lot. And they would be my advice to most. Use the money on room treatment, microphones, and other stuff.. good coffee for instance ;-)
Treating the room is really important. I think the room should sound really dry and not “bass-y”, so when you record stuff, it
sounds dry and not colored. Then you can add whatever you like on it, so it sounds best in the song.
I barely finished my first album in my home studio. It’s thankfully done and comes out on September 22nd and I know what I’ll be getting asap for new projects. More acoustic panels! 😆
Great tips, man!
Great vid. I"m one of those nerds. I used to be a hardware snob. Back in the early 2000's to 2010, I used apogee converters, and Avalon, U/A 610b, Chandler, Neve, API pre amps, plugins have become so great, that I have sold most of my hardware. I've also spent countless hours, trying different mic techniques and diff mics on various converters to find which combos work best.
Hey Justin. Just found you. Just subscribed. Looking forward to more videos like this one 👍
Agree completely with pres and convertors, I have a couple of expensive racks here. Like you there is some difference and I have my preferences but it is subtle. If I was starting over I'd put more emphasis on the room, the speakers, headphones and room treatments for sure. Agree completely on the room comfort and the dimmers tip is great. One other important factor for a good space is organized storage space. It isn't sexy but man it makes a difference when you have a place for your tripods, cables etc. Keep it coming.
I bought an $8 Velcro string muffle that made a huge difference to my recorded guitar tones. I highly recommend, especially over tape which is what some people use. I could never put sticky tape on the fret board of my guitar.
Funny that the only gear apart from the essentials that I have in my studio is a mic preamp. I have the dbx 286s and I got it to solve a specific problem. It helps me filter low level noise, helps with tonal flavour of the mic so I don't have to always switch mics for different vocals. Also use the deesser. I find that it helps me get better recordings on vocals particularly and reduces the time I spend trying to fix harsh or noisy recordings.
Yes, but then again the 268 is not only just a pre-amp. You're using the effects and EQ. You can do that in post, and even better and more specific. The actual pre-amp itself is not necessary.
Underrated: experience, intelligence, work ethic, honesty.
health! In his pyramid of necessities, he missed that you need to eat healthy, otherwise that growling stomach will make too much noise!
Social Skills is 200% more important than experience, even the best in the world told that.
Im the best producer of G House / Trap in my town as I know yet nobody asking for me because I lack social skills and networking
health yes most important thing in the whole universe
I mostly agree with everything you said, especially about converters, so this is more about nuance than objection. I mix ITB, so most of my EQ and compression is happening in the box, so those dramatic moves are plugins. I also, to your point, have more instruments and microphones than I have preamps because you only need so many options. All that said, I've invested in preamps because I don't think plugins quite capture what tubes, and to a lesser degree transformers, do (and I have an x8p and Unison preamps, cool, but not real and I've done blind testing). Since I usually don't go back analog once I've gone digital (with the notable exception of some VIs), I want the digital capture to have the color I wanted going in, so I have a few different preamps with a variety of tube and transformer combinations, so I have that color palette to work with during recording which makes mixing so much easier than when I relied on "clean" preamps. I'm not fixing fishtails and other issues so much anymore. Again, I mostly agree, there's not a lot of "magic" here, it's more about getting a high quality capture that makes everything easier down the line, i.e. understanding that preamps are tools which do a job and using the right tool for the right job. As far as overrated, someone else in the comments mentioned analog summing, wow those boxes are expensive and don't help much (especially if you have a good analog capture like I describe).
The one thing that I wonder about with all the preamp/converter double blind talk is about the cumulative effect. From what I’ve seen it’s not about a single track sounding different, it’s about the entire project all having that super subtle touch each track which therefore amounts to something not so subtle at all by the end. Some of those sounds we love are from signals being processed by line amps and what these days is unnecessary analog physical travel of audio around a studio, imparting ‘that’ sound. That being said, I’ve waisted too much time listening and reading about preamps. It’s a good point to bring, especially for artists and producers.
Best bang for the buck when it comes to improvement in sound when mastering:
Red wine.
😂 indeed. Specifically, a good Syrah 👌
Damn, I poured a whole bottle in my mixer and it doesn’t sound better!! 😂
. . .and that's why i decided to go ITB set-up for practicality since the present day technology is on a very fast pace of development.
great video Justin! 👌🏻
It is what happens when you stack the tracks.
U87 into 1073 into any comp of your choice through prism audio will add up.
However most times you can get 90% of the way there with far less.
I 10000% agree, it will certainly add up.
Thank you very informative. From what I got in your video I believe that your recording environment or were you choose to record is the most important piece of gear you need. The space that you choose to record in will have a dramatic effect on every piece of equipment you own no mater how expensive or inexpensive it is. Microphones will sound very different in the size or shape of room you are in. Every dimension comes to play in selecting or shaping your recordings. The recording space#1, should help you determined what kind of acoustic treatment of that room#2 you will need in controlling reflections and the way instruments sound in that recording space. This is very important to the way you hear and judge every plug - in or piece of out board gear you own even your monitoring system. Remember that every remote recording you make will sound different because of the location you are in running through the same gear you own and have come accustomed to hearing in your base studio all because of your acoustic surroundings. What ever microphone, plug - in, monitoring system or out board gear you listen to in some ones else home studio or Pro studio might not sound the same used in your Base studio all because of the Recording space used to record that particular sound bite you listened to. So it all comes down to Location acoustics.
Brilliant, Thanks for this video.
I've been teaching myself to produce/mix for the past 18 months and monitor positioning was probably the last thing I did and overlooked. As you say there's
so many easy wins. I have a pair of mid priced monitors which i love but I think knowing them and positioning is far more important than their quality. In addition to the aforementioned a good monitor controller, headphone amp is great. Even a reasonable mixer, that allows you set to up and record with zero latency, I find latency when recording a massive handicap- especially when recording vocals.
Mini Splits are the BOMB for studio AC,, they are nearly silent and work great. for a studio, you shouldn't even consider another option if you have the choice.
In my experience its all the subtle things combined that make the difference.
When tracking and Mixing its the thing that's getting me closer to a more professional sounding end product. It all depends where your at in building your recording space. As you said they are subtle so start with what makes the biggest improvements in your sound first then refine your sound capture/processing with these more subtle things when the major things are sorted. Just my opinion.
What acoustic panels are you using? like manafacturer?
He has a video about acoustically treating your room.
While I disagree with your opinion on mic press and converters as being overrated, I do really appreciate that you touched on room treatment. All the best gear you can posses could be handicapped if you cannot control the acoustics of your listening environment with some measure of accuracy. Another eye opener for me was cables. Best not to cut corners when it comes to cables to save money. I unfortunately learned that lesson the hard way too many times. Especially when comes to your monitors. Thank you for the video!
Very good video and totally on the point. Preamps are amplifiers and they supposed to make signals louder. That is their main job - surprise. If anybody shows another anybody a new song on streaming service it wouldn't be possible to tell which preamps where used.
if you dont drive the preamp enough it wont sound much different. that's the key. sometimes you want transparency though. with 8-16 tracks on a vintage Neve it's more colored than on an SSL. in solo the individual tracks might sound pretty close.
I totally agree with your picks of over- and underrated gear, but there is one point missing for me: I think blind-tests do not always tell the whole truth about a difference in sound quality if you only listen on a single sound source. From my experience even differences in the range of nuances can add up to a significant difference when applied to multiple channels in a mix - for better or worse. Of course that's not only true for Preamps, but even more for room-treatment, not to mention for the source of the signal (like a Drumset that is set up perfectly or is not), but I think you have to keep that in mind to appreciate what Preamps do to the sound (at least if you compare cheap and half-decent preamps and not decent preamps and boutique preamps - I'm not so sure about that).
Thank you for this video
At 9:44 he mentions: 'the B........convertors...'. What's that word he mentions that starts with a 'B'? Thanks.
I have several external mic preamps, of different types; tube, solid state (both with XFO’s and without) and while I agree that there are sonic differences between them, I wouldn’t consider any of those differences to be “crucial” in terms of making (or breaking) the overall sound of a record.
What I find more important with mic preamps, is in their functionality…things like beefy amounts of available gain, or impedance selection/adjustment, both of which can make a very noticeable difference when using ribbon and lower output dynamic mics…
Other features, such as having inserts for external processing, multiple outputs for aux/cue sends, XLR, 1/4” instrument DI and balanced Line inputs, are all more important to me than the subtle, esoteric sonic differences between different preamp models.
IMO.
The listening test thing is so true, the differences are so subtle.
I was watching some creators and did notice that interfaces had the same exact sets of chips..I have seen Focusrite so i probably will have a better look..I need to check what's inside my laptop again as well..
love ya man!
I remember seeing that preamp shootout on some recording forum back in 2005 or so. All the preamps sounded identical to me except for the Great River unit. That one stood out (to me).
Your ear isn't developed enough to know which proves your point 94 percent of people can't hear the difference
Phillips hue is a must !!! And they just dropped an update to where the light shift and change autonomously it’s the best ambience ever !! Highly recommend !
Well, any kind of colour leds.
100% agree.
@@supersonicsroots yes but this is one of those times where being s snob and getting the name brand I fully endorse to go the not good financial advice route haha the product is lifetime and it really does noticeably sauce harder. I have other brand bulbs as well and there is simply no comparison to the HUE bulbs 🤍🤍🤍
in order of import:
- A place people want to be, with comfy furniture and ready access to decent food.
- Relatively clean, ample power and line conditioning.
- Tools, starting with a pad of paper. Soldering iron. Multimeter. Reference info for any technical standards.
- Acoustic treatment.
- Monitors.
- Mics.
- Preamps.
- Outboard tools.
- Recording Media.
I'm a big fan of hybrid work.
I mainly include analog outboard pricing because I love the tactile element. FOR ME, getting my hands on those knobs helps with my workflow. Reason #2 is to take a little load off the CPU - ITB saturation processors are finally there. You can make a record in the box today and nobody can tell the difference - if two criteria are met: 1) the engineer and the plugins/DAW are high enough quality, and 2) you have the CPU.
Now, I'm happy with the gear I have. Still, if I really wanted to truly match my analog sound, I'd need more power. Maybe that's my skill level too (almost certainly is 😉) but you can push analog gear hard, saturate the hell out of it over the entire range - and no aliasing! Because that's how it works!
All that said, I do not spend a lot on outboard gear. I have the Black Lion parametric eq they put out years back that nobody actually bought 🤣 and the ART Pro-VLA optical compressor. Would matched pairs of Pultecs and LA-2As be better? Yeah! For sure! But I'm comfortable with these pieces. They're fine for what I'm doing; and the upgrade, while it would be nice to have, wouldn't be worth the price. Hell, if I could redo my rack from scratch I'd just fill it with the Drawmer tube preamp/comp, EQ, multiband FET comp, and saturator/stereo processor. Those 4 pieces are like $5K new. Total. And I'd be happy, they're outstanding, pro-level (far more pro-level than the engineer, in my case) kit; at very reasonable prices.
Mics... man, you can go a long way for a lot less $$ than you used to be able to. I don't care for the peaky Chinese 67 capsule, but it did do one huge thing: it put downward price pressure on the industry overall. You can stock a mic locker with world-class pieces from JZ, Austrian Audio, and Lewitt for... well, a well-stocked locker is still expensive in absolute terms - but relatively? And that's just for companies that are still innovating: Telefunken USA, Lauten Audio - and yeah, Roswell/MicParts - are making traditional (read: German 😂) style mics for a fraction of the price.
**edit - wanted to show some love to Fathead and Royer 10 ribbons, too. And one of my favorite mics to fill a gap in the spectrum is this $80 MXL dynamic with a smaller and a larger cartridge you can blend together for whatever frequency range you might need - I doubt I'll ever sing into it, or mic a solo acoustic or anything like that; but it's exactly what I reach for when someone else might reach for a 57.
Plugins? Klanghelm makes killer compressors and a saturator... FOR FREE. And their full-featured versions are like $30. Kazrog's True Iron transformer saturator is 30 or 40. Analog Obsession makes free stuff, not to mention Valhalla - you can fill your *virtual* rack for free or cheap, too.
All that brings me to: the right room? It's harder to skimp on that. Acoustic treatments? One panel isn't expensive, but it adds up - how much you need depends on the room. You don't need to spend a *lot* on monitoring, but there's definitely a floor: I do most mixing on headphones and use NF monitors (intentionally crappy ones 😉) to check my mix - Beyer 770s and MixCubes. I don't know that you can do it much cheaper than that (and if I had $2K to upgrade, it'd probably go to decent monitors that can fill in the gap, give full-range monitoring in speaker form... BUT monitoring on speakers would necessitate improving my room...)
And of course the other thing you can't cheap out on is time. It takes time to learn an instrument, to write songs, to learn the crafts of recording, mixing, mastering... and that's time you could have spent doing literally anything else, unless you're one of us who just HAS to make music.
Mic Preamps hmm...what about that Shadow Hills Equinox I'm thinking about getting in the near future
Whaaat! I'm just sitting a soldering 8 DIY 500 format MP573 preamps from SoundSkulptor :) ....
Makes s lot of sense but for me l would include the monitors (as best as you can afford.)They go hand in hand with the ac. treatment.
I see the comments where folks swear they make a big difference. I believe that’s mostly because preamps and converters aren’t cheap and people don’t like being told their investment has minimal impact. Many of these folks swear by higher sampling rates too. And they probably believe in really expensive cables. It’s the audiophile mentality. External pres did make a big difference probably about 10 years ago, but not as much now. Blind taste tests are one way to determine if someone can really tell a difference among preamps compared to cheaper ones, say, in an interface. There are measurements that can be performed to determine exactly what these preamps impart to the sound, and that’s the basis of modeling. The pres in my Audient iD44 sound great to me, and they’re the same ones in Audient’s big consoles. The converters in the Audient are miles better than what I used 10 years ago. I’ll stick to emulations to add “warmth.” Totally agree on the acoustic treatments (and NO FOAM).
I will certainly not flag you about the mike preamp, but i have to tell that the way I use them, they DO have their reason to exist. I drive them pretty hot, and then i attenuate the output to an amount where my AD/DA interface will not clip, but still get the girth of the analog compression and subtle distrortion that comes across with a good mike pre.
Im a huge fan of Audio Technica Pro37 pencil condenser mic's. I have a pair and they're great overheads and also good for room mics...When I stream live jams I use that pair and the quality of the recordings are amazing, in fact they're so good I often get comments and questions.
Agreed about the micpre's. That said, the three that I have that sound completely different from each other are the API 512c, Focusrite ISA110 and UA610.
Yes, the UA610 in particular has a LOT of color. And it's definitely very far away from say, an API.
I've owned all three myself and would venture to guess that I could tell them apart blind. But it is a relatively subtle difference compared to so many other things. Icing on the cake really, for once you have the more important stuff sorted out!
Thanks for weighing in!
-Justin
The only preamp I've heard that would make me justify a huge expenditure was when I heard the Coil tube preamps... They have an EQ on them too, the most almighty tone.
I’ve been craving for the Coil Pres too. That CA70 sounds amazing.
@@kevinbatchelor9566 Right?! They're unbelievable, even just on a 57 it was unbelievable. I have a tube mic in my studio, the idea of that through a Coil is almost too much to bear!
Heh, MicPres" The king has no clothes! I say it and people want to kill me. A $5,500 DW Fearn VT-2 will make a Shure SM57 sound as good as it can, but it is still a $100 SM57. I have. VT-2 because it makes my $5,000 vintage RCA ribbon mics sound great! That is the differentiator. But if you have a $4,000 budget, spend the bulk on the mic, not converters. But as far as A/D converters go, right on! It is the analog filters at the head of the A/D process that makes the difference. Wrong slope and phase filtering at 20K and you get artifacts from aliasing distortion. Not from sampling and 24 bit quantization process. Thank you! And full disclosure, I was an intern at Doug Fearn's Philadelphia studio for a short period in 1980 long before he manufactured gear. He was brilliant.then and he is brilliant now. He taught me more than he knows. In closing "get the blue cables, they sound sooooo much better than the black ones." Yeah, right.
i would say guitar/bass pedals are underrated pieces of gear. they can be really useful for adding colours to mixing. especially nowadays many manufacturers already increases the specs to handle hotter signals. and plus, we all live to have impedance mismatch for distortion anyways, aren’t we? hehe
In some instances its not that they don’t make a difference, as it is how they respond when pushed, and how they sound on that curve. THAT can make a significant difference in the sound, and how easy you can get that sound.
I agree with you, in fact, I heard that cd you mentioned. All Mostly the same, it is just a different flavour. in all preamps it is the combination of the input and output combination.
Planning a good room isolation, treatment, blah blah blah is the first thing. If you don’t feel comfortable and you get distracted with this issues doesn’t matter the gear you have you will never reach your goal.
I agree that low price interfaces sound great comparing them to older devices. Anyway there is a big difference with more expensive models.
Also, for me it’s not about the price it’s more how you feel and like the sound thru them and that’s the same for pre-amps. Having in your room a 1073 is great but maybe doesn’t fit in your sound and that’s why I think it’s more important to make a balance between quality, personal taste, workflow and price.
As in other comments I agree that pre amps, compressors or eq shine is during the recording stage were you use them in context with the interpretation from the musician, singer or whatever and so in the mixing stage when you overthinking what to do with a sound.
Preamps definitely have their own character. There are some decent inexpensive mic pre’s these days, but I have had to work on so many projects recorded on crappy preamp’s, and it’s really hard to make them sound like anything other than crap.
It's when combining many channels recorded through them in the mix and using them to get the most from your mic locker that they become worth the investment.
Unless you're mixing lots of channels and have the monitors+treatment to do it well, I don't think the $300+ per channel preamps are going to matter. e.g. for a podcaster, having a sexy pre-amp is mostly a fetish or peacocking / $tatus thing. At best, it can help a mic to sound less fatiguing over time. (in which case, the weak link is the mic and the pre is being used as an expensive band-aid)
100%. Preamps make a massive difference to my ears. I can hear fully the difference. People noticed a sonic jump when I went from average press to most sources being tracked with 1073s & Great Rivers.
Obviously this isn’t quite the same if your room & mic sound weak. Obviously they make more of a difference. I’m not talking about that though.
Prio:
1) Acoustic treatment
2) speakers
3) mic
4) a good hardware compressor
…
100) mic preamp
101) focusrite 6i8
…
1001) fancy midi-gear
Underrated: Monitors. I get crazy seeing all that setups with full racks of good outboard that costs thousands and then they're mixing on Krks or Yamahas hs's. Definetly acoustics in that group too.
@@loganwhite8375 Kali!
@@loganwhite8375 headphones..or none
@@aristokorat7599 no problem. I’m pretty sure this very channel has a review of them actually.
I’m somewhat sleepy right now and I read “overrated: monitors” and was about to lose my mind hahaha glad I kept reading and then read again.
Someone once said KRK's are like Beats headphones for boosting the bass.
Yamaha HS are the cool new NS10'S and I agree with you on the expensive studio.
Its like Abbey Road using krk's.
Wow you can really go on and on! Cheers.
1. Social proof with expensive gear
2. Pro Tools
3. Preamp indeed
4. Quality over social Skills
5. Phase shift of Multiband
6. Aquire gear over having clean electricity and conversion
patchbay defiantly underrated
Given the sponsorship how can we tell the difference between sound opinion and comments that have been paid for? I’m not really interested in advertising channels
1. Daw
2. Converters
3. Preamps
4. EQ plug-in
5. High End Cables
Now I’ll have a listen and see what you reckon Justin!
Agree with the info presented. Specifically for the recording input chain. And considering all the hype on forums.
Overrated:
1) preamp. My yamaha mg06 can give very close results to my bae1073mp.
2) converters. Had a lynx aurora. The differences are there but very small.
Underrated
1) acoustics. Absorption and also room size/ design.
2) instrument. Good instruments have less sonic problems.
3) performance. A good player has excellent tone and dynamics.
100% agreement here!
-Justin
I agree with mic preamps, however I feel the preamp “flavor” becomes way more apparent if it’s a signal you are heavily compressing like modern bass or vocals. But yeah, they don’t matter nearly as much as we act like they do lol
100% agree. Acoustic treatment is worth so so much more than anything else. It can cost 3-5k to do it right in a medium-small studio. But i waited way way too long to just bite the bullet and put gik bass traps and ceiling clouds everywhere
Sir... What is this "de-noiser" of which you speak?
Something like iZotope RX or similar.
-Justin
I’m gonna comment on this before I see your picks… my picks are:
Overrated:
- NS10s
- Avalon 737
- Neumann TLM102
- Every Genelec monitor with plastic cabinet.
Underrated:
- Joemeek stuff
- JZ Microphones (any mic)
- Elysia stuff (even the cheaper modules)
- Josephson measuring mics
- Cloudlifters
Those Lynn Fuston comparison CDs were great.
I don't regret get my art pro mpa 2 preamp. It's cheap but worth it. My opinion. But yeah I agree don't necessarily need it. But it did lower my noise floor to none. Whereas directly to my preamp. As well as not as harsh high end frequency. But it's all a personal taste
Coming from Behringer eurodesk preamps to Presonus xamps in their digital mixers was an eye opener or should I say ear opener big difference! As my studio grew and I got better gear did I fuck up and waste my cash?!?? I got a Chameleon Labs 7603 Xmod the latest acquisition does it make a difference? Does made in the USA parts and construction and UK Charnhill input/output transformers make a difference did I waste my $$? Well yes to my ears yes it makes a difference coming from what I was using It does to me I blind tested lots of gear and don't just buy shit to look cool in my racks lots of reasearch goes into those purchases that may be nothing to the financially set but not to the average joe that has to put food on the table.
I had warm audio 312 api knock off and isa428. Then i got all neve 1073 and my recording took a big step forward. Its not about 1 pre amp. Its how they stack after 24 tracks.
VU metres are the most underrated pieces of kit in my opinion
Just stopped me from getting another preamp!!! Morning hawk
Ooh, which preamp were you wanting? :)
@@dirkchurlish4074 I was looking into something really clean like the Grace and something colored like the 1073. I sing, rap and record real instruments. I'm currently using the apogee element and the UA 710.
Spot on with the pre amps..
The proper A/B test for preamps is not one versus another, but Preamp vs. No Preamp (straight digital). A good preamp will always sound better - especially if they can be driven/saturated, etc.
Ummm.... But there's no such thing as recording a mic with no preamp :-) You're always using a preamp somewhere, whether inside your interface, or even inside the mic itself if it's a USB mic or something.
Hope that makes sense!
-Justin
Why would one ever want converters with a sound? If they are coloring things, they are broken.
Oh,... geez. Get back to us in two decades.
It seems so obvious but the treatment of the room is probably the most important thing. The difference is night and day from recording in treated room compared to a non treated room. The size and shape of the room really make a difference too.
You’re crazy on the micpre!!
Nope, most people (99.9% of all listeners) won't hear any difference whatsoever. Máybe you can (may-be) but your audience most certainly not.
@@supersonicsroots, most ppl know a bad sounding record vs a great sounding record.
@@mrflynn01 yes maybe, but not the difference between a 300 or 3000 interface. Or even interface preamps and Neve preamps. No listener will ever hear that subtle difference, heck.. in a blind test not even most engineers will hear it. There's even very little difference these days in a 300 dollar Røde condenser or the "real thing" like a U47. In a full mix, these differences are negligible. It will save you some mixing time maybe. Our first 2 albums were recorded with great pre-amps and higher-end mics like WA-47's. The last one is being recorded with a Presonus interface, Røde microphones... no one can hear a difference.
It's all about the musicianship, the songs and the mix / master. Not the gear.
@@supersonicsroots, I respectfully disagree with you.
@@mrflynn01 You may, sir.
The debate on mic pres and converters are from 20 - 30 years ago where there was a huge difference between cheap gear and high dollar gear. These days, like you say, even the cheap gear sounds decent and although there is still some difference, it is not what it used to be.
My vote on underrated gear is Power Conditioners. People new to the field don't realize the need or the time spent trying to track down a hum. Its the cheapest insurance policy for your gear and is a must, especially if you are sinking money into all those overrated items.
the annoying thing with pre's tho is if you buy a random pre you can't sell it for anything, but if you buy a bae1073 or a tg2, you can sell it for basically what you paid for it, maybe even more. i guess at some point the market will fall out on this stuff but for now there's only one way to own a bunch of necessary gear and it be a safe investment. yes it's horrendous to be talking economics with art but we're all living off our music income and if i have a terrible 6 months i need to sell stuff that i know has market value in order to secure myself right
Most underrated :
Chair
Mouse
Keyboard
Screens
Controllers
(acoustic space for sure)
Support for headphones
Stock plugins
My two cents. 1. It's hard to talk about mic pres in a general way. It's about the chain.
The source that's in front of you and the mics and pres available. You may not have a selection of pres thst have different enough character to decern. The charecter and fequency profile of your source may translate well on many things... or not. You might want to use a ribbon mic in witch case preamp choice is a much bigger deal. So..The subtle difference in pres can become far less subtle on a particular sorce... but, however subtle, you certainly want what sounds better and it's certainly not a small thing bc....point number 2... Subtle difference plus subtle difference plus subtle difference ect. equals big difference. Like folks who design high output engines. It's 1 percent here plus 2 percent there and so on that gets you a 12 percent acceleration boost. In a bubble, a subtle differnce on 1 sorce doesn't make or brake the song, but how about a subtle difference on every sorce? 50 plus sorces?We get to a point where we're ringing out subtle differences at every point in the process to gain a big decernible difference when the records done. To conclude... none of these things are over rated. What individuals need to decide is.. at what price point do the benifits of each of things make sense. And that depends on your work flow and your goals and whatever else.
If I may ask, Justin, 1. what type of music have you done most and, 2. What's your preferred genre?
Tascam V SSL mic pre???
Hey Justin, great video and while I agree with you on your list unfortunately the real world sees things differently. As I see it in order to survive in the world of pro studios most of us are not working with top name talent. We are working with the wana bees. Or the artist that is releasing on sound cloud etc. Most of these musicians have no real idea about what it takes to record a top quality track. When they hire a studio they look at 2 things, the hourly price and the equipment list. And that equipment list needs to be long. If they come to visit the studio before they book, they want to see a wall of blinking lights. Rack after rack of outboard equipment. Granted, we can do most everything in the box now days but these people don't know that. That wall of equipment will keep you busy. 2 studios side by side, same rates. One using just a DAW and plugins. Studio 2 has all of the equipment as studio 1 plus a wall full of outboard gear. Studio 2 will get the gig most every time. This is true even if studio 1 produces a better product. You may not realize it but when you traveled around with that rack of gear. You impressed a ton of people.
Having said all of that, your list of under rated items was spot on.
You are spot on with this. It really depends if you are making music for yourself or have a studio for hire by clients. In those instances, some things we know don't make as big of a difference in the end result and sound (wall of mic pre's), can go a long way as to who books the studio. I would say that inexperienced people would look at 3 things when booking a studio: 1- hourly price, 2-equipment list (I include the physical space in this), 3-portfolio/examples. I've seen quite a few studios that are decked out, and the sound samples are pretty dreadful.
While I would rather weight and argue more on usability in some cases than on quality I 100% agree with additional external mic pre amps. Even if we have several diamonds of them here on SAN I always argue regarding the pre recording coloring. It limits your mix flexibility. Lot of it you can do afterwards. But I do not agree with convertes because: Far more important than a pre amp is the mic input quality of your recording device, no matter if it is an analogue one or an audio interface (and there you also should care about the quality of AD/DA, yes). There you can trash your recordings finally before they even get recorded. So put more money in the mic input quality than into external mic preamps if you have to choose. And to blind test AD/DA you should create "summed up" examples. Comparing single shots wouldn't be fair to proove that there are differences. What I mean by that is you will hear differences when you go in and out and in and out again. And you will hear differences when you record an orchestra of 100 people > 100 mics/channels and you sum them up. There you will definitely hear the difference between a good and a bad AD/DA or mic input.
Don’t light dimmers (and neon) cause EMI and overall noise in electric guitars? Maybe that’s not a great advice for guitar people, I agree with all the rest tho
You will want to get transformed isolated dimmers! Or use Phillips Hie bulbs. That alleviates this issue. But yes. It’s something to be aware of!
-Justin